The tonight show was severely wounded and, in my case, unaware of the meat eater podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther stay longer, ok, Gimme weren't explain where we are kyler corner in the house. After three wonderful consecutive days of free, diving and spear fishing, no help help I'm assuming that listers have that some listeners have the same confusion I had is that it break this down. if you say you're, going to hawaii

You will say what island all Islands, have cool names exe for the one island and useful to say the big island, and I was asking you why the big island not have like. Why did the big alien, the big island? Why is it not a traditional name, and the big data by traditional name in the same way where there's maui and oahu and linda ii, the big island is hawaii island, and so it's a really cool name. If not the coolest name is just gets confusing, because the state is also called hawaii, and so, when you say you're going to hawaii, it just needs more specification, and so it just goes by it's nickname more comments. which is the big alien, because all islands have their true hawaiian name, and then they have their english nickname

Is the valley I'll call you the garden I'll, but everybody is caused by the hawaiian aims except hawaii. Island just gets cod by its nickname Alan you have found was interesting. Targeting the last couple days is the the differently That the mix of when discussing fish, for instance, the mix of, the common english guy, like stateside english, fish names, hawaiian fish names sometimes you referred. A fish by the japanese Japanese fish names. Were you brought up with that mix are they every local person connected to the ocean was brought up with that makes it, and that is one of the cool things about her. What is just we have just such a history of immigrants, all over the world, that kind of came together

and formed this melting pot of a culture and because The japanese were, you, know, really good at eating fish, and that was already part of their cuisine. Days ended up making a lot of the food that became popular here and so a lot of the hawaiian fish, they will have english name. Hawaiian names, but a lot of people here do referred certain wines that are popular in japanese cuisine by the japanese names and that's all just because of the immigrant days. The plantation days girl and what are real, quick like given names octopus like what what is the what's the the is there there's gotta, be a hawaiian name for octopus right. This name is hair and you will here it more often these days in April it s because there

is an actual intention for a resurgence of just really trying to bring back the hawaiian language. So these days people do try and be intentional if they're saying here, but much more common name there, Everyone caused by is taco what does japanese most kyoto target, how strange situation were also joined by I justin. You're, Kennedy's husband, I dunno. Did you guys like The whole names situation is worth asking a lot of people coming just anywhere I get. My last name can be kept her last name and our sun buddy carry gave him my last name so its body. Now, our turkish ski, oh dear but you guys gotta, hang. Will chime in we've got a cover off on some things we gotta say at cinema tower sky at cinematheque,

right on the instrument, on the other hand, that Julia S, man in sudan, see some impressive work. Yes, thanks: gay hank nod I think we talk about catches, your interest, chime in ok, then we're gonna get back to you. Guys. Heavy duty we gotta talk about first off yacht is not here because la femme. not unless tropical location he's film in our with clay newcomb for media. Not now meter hans. First episode of this season hosted by adding nano none other than yawning Is out to watch and youtube right now so go check it out Everybody turned our real heavy duty for years before, and it will do so again. Slots are laid a series on you to meet or hans get rid of wars, romantic gimme. Do you want and wolves, wolf management, wolves, very divisive, and there, turkey's very divisive and offer great lakes? Yes,

We address a separate device animal here and why. we're going Emily relax argue about not as nothing as controversy is that I would like we do. Imminently. Have you know a lot of animal lovers? Who just don't really want people killing animals and there's controversy kind of over that? But I don't think we have any one particular way. I could think access to this controversy because it's an invasive species and it really does detriment to the land, but a lot of the population really likes to eat them. hunt them europe, you know, but nothing like wars. Wolves is pretty ass. He buys if I play that on the same side, where lay all cool leg, it's a problem today, environment, so us eating them in killing them help save the lan good deal. You know you Couple interesting, wolf bits in the news lately, the firs,

it's kind of baffling to me. I wasn't. There are now many noble how like these fellers get off, so a couple guys in your wisdom, Montana had apparently had permit to do. Kyle work out helicopters, so shootin, shewn, kyle's, fur, depredation, livestock, depredation, helicopters and they according to what What we're seeing here, they. This took a couple wolves for a couple: coyoats shot him. Then, when retreat emma retrieved amount of snow machine, didn't self report. megatons this track with your understanding how it is you, do yourself report a couple game, warden god to pay these guys a visit, and they have the wolves,

and turned him in according the what's out so far Are they didn't have landowner permission to hunt on that property, they did not have wolf. Hunting permits didn't have overtakes, they did not self report. Yet the I'm bored, you get the fine fond of being a whopping four hundred twenty five bucks per person. Had some one had four hundred thirty five they didn't. We twenty five for for thirty five to the other, they didn't. Even they declare and to say who the helicopter operator was the warden quoted here saying: had they told us the helicopter operator we probably would have talked to them, but the suspects in this case one to leave them out of it norman you poetry, grey, wolf, there's a big game restitution of montana, so few potent animal montana they'll look like what

Value of the animal was right so and restitution does. That makes it be that if you're poaching trophy class animals is it makes it there Listen you! Let's a white tailed, though you know a key year, your family's hungry. What have you should wait till dawn summertime to eat it the right the tunisian and that that's be way way smaller than you shoot a trophy wait till there is go, look at a different value to the states different they paid. No rest to some lonely restitution, a grey wolf is a thousand bucks. No forfeiture hunting privileges. They got eggs because they were rewarded for their cooperation. Yet they didn't self report back economy, I mean, unless I don't really know what I'm saying should have happened, but I would just if you told me if you laid out like someone had a helicopter permit to shoot coyotes shot a wolf didn't tell anybody got

later Alabama may and there is there ass the the baffling pirate is theyve. They said they said that they didn't know they were born until the deed was already done. and then, and in really at that point, is where, like the track record of of lawbreaking begins. So at that point there really. Pretty sure those rules they go, there's no machine and go make up now on the ground proofing the fact that ass. These are walls at that. That is the exact point at which they are supposed to call the game. Warden. You can then retrieve them, take them back, because that would really cast a lot of doubt on the fact that they miss identified a wolf from cairo, and the wards were tipped off. Yes, there

and was the skin, and they had no plant even reported. But anytime, you kill a wolf. You have to report it. Yes, I mean if you kill with legally yourselves reporting- and I think this is just like really weird grey area of that actually supposed to exist of what the social tolerance is an, and I know from personal experience of being in that valley, just just walking around being a new phase in town people did you hear too? She walls, you know And I ve been is very tongue in cheek information. But I know it to be fact: A land owner no idea this was going on, but was one hundred percent fine with a bill? my only come here is only that I would said man, that's good be there ass? Yes, there now

You know, and then we have had some history in the state re or its icu. I not the law would away under their way for me regarding wolves and end the take off. So when I three that article the montana standard I had to take a survey of the survey was like yet the like answer to the highest. You have to answer marketing question to read the article and wanted to know of how likely are you to try to lose weight in the next seven days? Yeah what does not likely unannounced how's allowed access. Threed article idle, being illegal, go idaho, get real, explain all the scale Our answer. As, as I read on the media dot com, in the absence of tat the gloves off our move management. On Wednesday the fifth

governor state, idaho, signed into law bill. Well the eleven which is legislative action against wolves and that's a big thing and state of idaho, because the state by the horse was to have an independent fish and game and dependent fish and game commission those committee- there can be an typically are appointed. the governor of the state, but it still considered independent of the general law making of the state of I'll bet you do your payment from the governor, but that doesn't mean you owe him your bidding correct same thing with the supreme court right right. Even all presidents give very annoyed on their appointees. Do not do their bidding exactly exert work very, very hard to make sure, if they have the upon the ability to make an appointment there their dams, you're gonna make megan,

up and underline in all our mouths forced to say this, but when you do understand exactly read but legally game. Commission is supposed to be balanced of. You know some folks. At understand the interests of the state. So it's postpone, we read, insanity of let's say agriculture. Recreation hunting and the outfitting for sure our fitting bird. Why you're not supposed to be like a good max read of of what the state interests are anyway So, for the first time state of idaho, we have legislative, ovary, If you will, that says you don't. Basically, this is our going to handle it game animal, which is what the wolf is considered to be in a state of utter, a big game, animal. It's also considered It became animal and state of montana

and the reason for that is this: wasn't an independent decision in order to get state management of the off and get that animal off the endangered species list. States, made an agreement to say we're going to man, this animal. This way they came out with a management plan that was agreed upon and then that's how states the ability to manage the wolf and hunters, got to be able to hunt the wharf and trappers gotta, be able to trap the wolf the interesting thing. If you look back to that decision at how you and manage it was enough, because when they were first talking about the deed was anything in states were needed to comp states needed to come forward. They don't care. If, if we're going to remove federal management of wolves, states need to have management plan proposals, and I remember wyoming yes, We re designing fisted

If they were going to manage, wolves is a big game, animal in a certain core area in the northwest corner of the state, but they won't the basic take like a coyote style. They want you lately, cairo management, the rest, the state and remember thousand mate. They start to their guns and re out there But initially I thought man you're crazy, like one of those montana, idaho doing it is do big game. Anyone get the whole thing over with, but they they talked it out. yeah and got through and have like a a management plan. This decidedly different in that state, and that is core to this bill, read the difference between a big game, animal and environment. So a big game. Animal wolves, bighorn. She elk dear there manage certain where varmints, which would be hired skunks raccoons their managed a certain way to wear your big, animals have seasons, they have tags, they have harvest reports, typically

and your varmints are managed much. Loosely to where they are an awkward animal of opportunity. If you, if you will, There is much more leeway on how an individual chooses to manage that animal when they come across it, typically, usually samuel matic, like a low amount of public desire to yes right, does not know that a big demand on the resource, correct YAP, and so idaho has the wolf. Did as big game, animal which means tags are required and there's a harvest report and involved- what this legislation does. Is says. Yes, it's big game animal You are going to have to purchase a tag, but the means of take the legal me of take will be that of the cairo so

You can be legal to pursue this animal in Well, the way is that you can legally pursue a coyote. So it's a much more broader means of take, but you still have to have the tag you still have to commit to your harvest report. For instance, you can't run an elk down on a snow machine, but can run in cairo down on the snow machine. You can't more vision fund, a vision to hunt and Elk, but you can for a guy out bill red, and so that's that's how the means of take or are being broaden. It says here, in idaho, like in two thousand twain, there is only eighty four confirmed: wolf kills on cattle you're, a very small percentage, You think of and in the three year average its one hundred and thirteen wolf kills per year, which is like very, very small person like point zero, zero

we're per cent what's interesting is all these means of take that you And use to pursue coyoats we're actually legal under depredation circumstances. If you had a depredation in regarding wolves and you went through the our channels you could hunt was you, thermal vision. Night vision you could you know you could be very aggressive as if you were not running a bulgarian indicate on a case by case based on a case by case basis, same with those guys are just about exactly They were able to they had permits or according to them. I think. Maybe they did I had permits to aerial gun for coyoats, exactly right, not

anybody can be like you know, I've, let's run a helicopter. This weekend ran so that that's another great example so? There's all these things where its ipo? How did we get to this point of sale? Well, we have to take legislative action to provide for these things. many of which are already provided for in the states predator, management plan, of which wolves. a dual role of being a big game, animal and a predator aunt chats point of, how much livestock depredation are actually is for how many animals are out. There is very very low. What is hard to consider is the stress factor of live. och on ground, where werewolves or just a heavy predator numbers are where you kid, but

actually have animal stress to where they're not putting on the amount of that you would expect them to over a tip amount of time on a typical pasture, because a good run ragged because Run ragged, you could also have sea could have lighter animals right. You don't wait, means cash for livestock person or you could even have some instances where you are not getting the calf recruitment or lamb recruitment that you typically would. So you have to of way more rams or bowls in with your cows for a lot longer than you typically do. You know it just it adds up to to more expands for these producers and a lot of this is being pointed towards walls that that's it resting counterpoint, because what what I was looking at

who was a very different states, like the number of cows actually killed by walls or sheep, killed by wolves. The number low, o solo you're. Then you go to people like we're one. Those are confirmed in not a guy's, a turnout livestock to run. They don't see it for months on end, so you You go back and round everything up which has been out of your sight for many months, and you get numbers a comeback, because there is an enormous like this, a question, going over what they'll avedon you didn't go other in It's like you, get a mortality signal on a tracking collar and go out there and confirm everyone, so those are like confirmed cases and they have to be confirmed to be compensated. So if you put three hundred out in two hundred and ninety come back, and you have no idea. They'll have to the other ten. You then don't we're down and get your money from the wolf mitigation programme, correct to you, to bring out europe, be a lamb officer or you

fish wildlife person take come check out that kill site, determine but actually is a key website and I'll tell you, There's a million ways, a sheep likes to die growing up in my family. We saw it all the time and that's what we'd just kind of chalk it up to. It was like boy, sheep, just love. Today, Neil read I like the idea, but to go Although the idea of like stress, induced abortion of of fetuses yap or just the refusal to take away. then the weight reduction. What it does is allows people to point and say: okay yeah, I didn't lose that many that I know about, but wolves are cost me a lot of money, exactly yep Kyle leaves a little bit of a lingering skype. Prove me wrong. Rep ray end in view, I think, with most cases like there's, there's a there's, some truth. There. I'm sure like in certain areas, there's some truth. There's theirs a meet in the middle type of situation,

what's interesting, though, and I would certainly point the fact that what rescue me as I. Why is this being taken care of legislatively when you look at the number somehow how idaho fish and game has managed as an independent, fishing aim has managed wolves there. So if you look at when the very first season in idaho. You are allowed to hunt wolves. I believe you can have five tags, there was no trapping season and it was confirmed, through very small area as the war population grew There were more hunting tags and then wrapping seasons the area of take also expanded to now in the state of idaho, you can hunt wolves all and this is before this legislation goes in to a fact which I think is gonna be

in July you can hunt, wolves, three. And sixty five days year or trap wolves almost three hundred sixty five days a year, our game management units throughout the entire state. That's already the case, that's all ready the case. You can get fifteen hunting tags. Fifteen trapping tags year, hunting tags can be. Used for trapping as long as that season is open to hunting is at the time of uptake and in europe to be clear, the trapping side of things it just a much more effective means of taking wolves and so you're, seeing there state agency, respond to the growth of wolves and the biggest sticking point is like what we're seeing is a social.

tolerance that is being been exceeded with a very large and influential grew in the state of idaho, where whoa whoa whoa, when the state, while management plan for wolves started. It was a hundred and fifty wolves. On the landscape- and it was That number is that number at that time. on settling to some people- yes a hundred fifty yes that's, why do the estimated wharf population instead idaho now is fifteen hundred wolves right and like wildlife management. Is just not an exact science. everybody, loves numbers, but they can wrap their head around the fact that its like counting leaving wild is very hard to do like there's a bunch of wild chickens around this house. They take balkan gas manner. How many birds there are at six

of job. How did you come up with africa is? Like well, the first day was: I want my bike software, but the state vital as bunch camera, out there they do aerial serve as theirs is you as let's say nine. hundred theirs as many as two thousand in the middle. There is the number fifteen hundred I think, did that I don't think that anyone imagined when delisted walls I'll think anyone imagined how ineffective human hunters would prove to be. I think they are and I think that the idea is that you do so. You manipulators dial internet up and down, but it s like baby opened wide up. I don't know if it's a lack of Motivation and part of the public

the lobby or by the tags, like all run into one eyed, the wolves have gone very smart. They avoid people and that those we're just grow and grow and grow, and I think that people went when they start these hunting season. So suppose we the end wolves. Oh yeah, the outcome is a headlines right. It was like Hunters are gonna, kill him all right, but in in. I think, you're wrong in the fact that there are plenty of folk, have similar interests. A lot of the people in this room do a lot reading and we were well versed on all the old trapper and mountain man, books and stuff and is like, if you, those things the way we are red wolves was pump in a bunch of carcasses. Full strychnine, and whatever aid autumn died, right and a lot of what aid on those carcasses where rules and we and everywhere cameron right now equitable- I want do. A full report on, alas, is wolf man, one

He was the overall for he would go into an area where there is, caribou heard it was given to must produce not in any way the high ground around here, to caribou lace, laces carcasses, strychnine. Then use also a little balls of fat that he would also poisoned and scare them all around analysis methodology there are pointing away Adam wholesale like an estimate how effective that was, he was working to be one time: poisoning, wolves and a guy report that he saw a group of nine wolves, those like two black in seven gray ones. Com off the sea ice needs a godsend, couple days later goes a check one. This base stations there's all nine of them. Black ones and seven gray phase lane around his base station very effective various.

but the idle in any way think that we return to that. But that was it wasn't shoot. Madame rat does What else is killing he all there's a picture of a modern agrippa grin with a wolverine that turned up as one of its base station side, I bet you can only manage a sword, it basically legislation here, which, which is going to be come law in in june or July. It's for a lot of things that were provided for it with the intended purpose. of mitigating wives got livestock. Damage Now it's up to the state can see to you turn figure out how to implement this programme. That that's been. To them and. The scary thing to me- and this is not like trying to fear monger here- is.

We, the members of my art, about where you get into the scary part in the bill. The frustration is that from the state legislator, its did the frazier that fish and game is doing enough. Yes, but if you look at the numbers, despite all the things you laid out the doing like, but but The criticism like, if you won't do your job I'll, do for your dad right in its lack of patients, and and and really yes. Thank you. Forgive me on track, like that's the problem with wildlife management read, it takes a lot of time because what doing is they're. Making incremental adjustments to a growing population and are trying to figure out late them dick number four wolves is forty percent you have to remove forty percent of the population in area. There is only one study that backs this, but that number is forty percent. If you can remove forty percent of the population, you'll see a decline who a gradual decline overall in the wolf poppy Efficient, how many surprising to me

that's a lot of animals right. Forty percent of a total and overall population is a shitload. If you do that too, if you did that to a population of mountain goats, they'd never recover, oh, no! No! So, but last Here the state of idaho under current regulations were moved over thirty percent of the body vision of the overall population of walls in the state of ida, which I give you put them in the car next a big game, animals of which is classified like you'd, be turn in some african heads. If you were removed, Thirty percent of the white tailed population, simpletons red but that's not apples, apples, community of emails and burn. So The scary thing here is,

here is a social response to a scientific management situation. This is why, by god, if you're not going to do some we're going to do something, I have very very serious. Doubts that the legislation is going to resign lt in some magical. Forty percent fifty percent six percent reduction of total overall wars population in the state and when happens when that happens is going to be another sheep from the hip social legislative response. That says Ok, then we do need to start poison on public land, you can poison through you'd out certified agencies on private land currently, but

You know you take state idaho, yet fifteen hundred wolves entire state of vital dead and the state is this impasse We'll chunk ground that connects with hails canyon, the frame church, wilderness Two point: four million acres do the math fifteen hundred wolves covering two point: four million acres right. It's no big surprise that people aren't run and wolves left right and centre red you run into a lot of wolf tracks, but actually nice on? One is tough like we're. Not I just don't think and get to some astounding amount of wolves with this legislative tool that are all of got pulled out the toolbox? and what happens when that reality sets in. Are we then to see this slippery slope put Do we loved it views amounting world of more,

managing wildlife through legislation. the headlines around. This would tell you this can be very effective roy. Irs idaho lawmakers pass build to kill most of states- wolf population, it's the yeah, I oh, no, no! No! No! I mean We know some things are effective right. We know trapping is effective, but effective, trappers. The overall trapping population is very low. The that very effective trap within their population is a very low and in aiming itself full time job through through the hunting reports. You don't because its became animal yellow report, your harvest in the database, there has been one trapper whose filled his twenty tags, then that there was room.

asked the two thousand eighteen, two thousand nineteen season. I believe, where are you We're limited to ten hunting tags. Ten trapping tags haven't talked to that guy. Oh, I would love to you too, if you're listening, please right and we will give I have something I guess that's an amazing feat: yeah twenty, I mean twenty. I would love to just to just to get a little bit of intel from that guy about what he goes about doing yeah and a guarantee not like over one weekend. I went out you know, what's there and go with that just to like the people that want the wolves gone gone, I mean, if you think, about eighty in two thousand and twenty, the going back to that there's. Eighty two confirmed: carol, that's pretty good, in my opinion, might put it so other unforeseen things and then there's also it there's also so like proxy stuff. Like there's an enormous amount of on its is debatable fact

that it has ramifications for became running right, but if and says hey my problem with Heaven. What I would call too many walls is it lowers the get the pool of animals out there for people who want to hunt and people, and be like one, that's a legitimate argument. So they goods and lower there or like taking a thing that has some level of public sympathy which be livestock pretty. sir ability to stamp business right like that seems important and you take all of these different anxieties about walls where they come from people who have what. I would argue that the very ill founded concerns about human welfare logic. concerns about wild game populations, legitimate concerns about cattle issues You can put it into a place. It seems like the best way. You're gonna win for her is to say, like I want there to be a lot more elk around, because I like to shoot at them. People like are very unsympathetic, even though that to me seems like

extremely rational argument. People are very unsympathetic to that here and for clear water north. Although to do, which is essentially the panhandle idaho, philip, get as the handle with frame ban on the end the clear water north there there is almost like. There's no doubt, there's been a reduction in air Numbers in those zones, but that's also where the bulk of the the rise wolf depredation ariel gunning has gone on in that's that's where, like the big, the hammer sledge, resize tools in the tool kit are coming out due to reduce those those wolf numbers in the There is also the issue of you so run around with from the mid nineties when they began to do reductions had to put numbers out there and you're you're at zero right you're at effectively zero wolves, so people say they want to success, look like to you and they.

Through our numbers. It now seem like astonishingly low, but they were. They throughout numbers of people could agree with that was a hundred pretty seventy five. What you like low ass numbers Then people are like wow, I guess if it's only one hundred and fifty I'd get on board with that, or I won't resist that as much and then goes on. The heavy essay predict protection. You hit one fifty and ends. I'd, say: ok, we're! There were stay management, and then people use lawsuits to block those plans for twenty years, and the sudden, the one fifty we were talking about is one thousand five hundred and You will get real use their number. So then this number Nobody agreed on one fifty some proposals. We go back to one fifty and how are you treated in the media? You kill ninety percent of the wolves. and he was like. Oh, I dunno either come up with the number you guys came up with. The number sounds like a mess to me, even in this discussion rate. What we're looking is this vacuum where its than

we're about versus the number of walls and all other factors are being taken into account right so from the clear water north. That's like the densest thickest. in forest in the state idaho, which, at the time of lewis and clark, they were like. Beat up the natives around there than s purse we're like? Oh, there is no food up there like yeah you're in a star of in the mountains red, then we have major, catastrophic fires The big burn era right in that ripped through their along with heavy timber management like heavy timber management with which opened up a tunnel country. There were elk rate. reintroduction going on, so we yet fresh growth rehab growth in that area and in constant timber production, more big burns in the thirties cost and timber production it was much more him. There was a much

the place to be as an Elk during a time that very well could have been the hay day of milk in that region, and it very well could be this real test, both meet in the middle situation of less timber management. Some that asked view with with them. the lawsuit interposition, asian around timber hervis and we haven't had big burns and yet wolves that are just really frickin hard to get on and in big dark, too dark timber and That area grows really big balls and really big box, because they're really hard to get on and big dark timber do but yours with a buddy of mine he's like in making fun of this guy in any way, but He just said he's, like my family's, been hunting in the exact same spot, kill and elk for thirty five years

and we haven't seen seen in our key know, ten years or something like that and. It is hard to say it, but it's like the only that hasn't changed in that scenario is the fact that you have put your camp in the same spot. Everything else changed forest manager practices. Everything has changed like it's just its, not you, don't live in a vacuum and it is so hard to contextualize all that stuff. Now, I'm really does not great here's. Interestingly, this. This, like one of those things. This is one of those pieces of reporting. Where someone does the kind of crazy has no chance of. I think we're still makes a news everywhere in Oregon. There's a bill was a call is called the

initiative called the abuse, neglect and assault exemption modification improvement act which would make it in Oregon. Does a bill put out there? an animal could only be injured in cases of human self defence of an area could still spain neuter household pets, but you would be able to make it a legal to kill livestock? it would be illegal to force and pregnant in force, employed nation, on livestock and would ban meat production and state of Doesn't get interesting, very aggressive approach, but it is also not noteworthy reporting. I will never go anywhere, but is interesting. The sexual mutilation aspect of it chester instead, a big one.

Yeah, you know you should have invested in my room insane dose coin. No, How is bitcoin the continuing adventures of chester, the investor ass? It is it's just canada, up and down up a narrow, repeated out now not petered out. It's just. I think it's still smart to dabble in it. We had our own, we had army. Who did you buy me? Crafted iver. Did you get one for free? We came up with our bench raymie craft and all I would have loved one now: listen, there's four. There's a limited number there on. There are sold for three hundred bucks, a piece, a goddess put one up on Ebay. He got Thirty seven bids

the bidding on that knife closed at one thousand, two hundred twenty five dollars plus point our shipping and handling thirty seven beds three hundred our knife. Now going One thousand two hundred twenty five bucks You got any more of those land around the ny giants. Crazy. How does this crazy? How may we got because we're gonna start our mediator, ox now's, the bodies and at first? I didn't think that that point, because it's a we're. It's for conservation spending were auction. weird shit, cool stuff like the first things, but bold, a birch ball. A buckyball about bowden got all kinds of stuff. We gotta bring home something from this. And now we can put our own knives and they are now that they're, like collectors. I can't believe that that's amazing this. The thing is, I promise not talk about anymore. This no signal, so

the hawk whereby who listens is aware of this conversation about the guy that warmed his birthing. His wives, birthing pool with a sui want a pastor just wrote in he's always struggle with getting his baptismal well, where they call it. There has caused the dismal three hundred gale and galvanise starting for baptize and people he's ice Other with watertown gum self sooty, this very comfortable temperature, but then Paul was the wand out when he has a baptism when he has baptized somebody survive we remember owner all sentner freeze and our butts off in the and wind. The a this winter, now we're talking about methods keeping the dice hall from your generator suv, while run a shallow disagrees out there

so this guy right, genuine passer, doing baptisms and soon be heeded water. He sent a picture kimi this. I want you to weigh in on this one. We've been had, we were having a debate recently about why snapping turtles don't seem to want to bite your underwater, but soon as you lift them out, they want to bite ya. Guy was saying this is. This is apropos Guy and I was in hawaii for years back, we decided to your guided startling trip. Says his family is very scared of the ocean, so they were overloading the guide with questions, but what all by you they got to question bucket bit by sharks question about gettin stung by urchins in any one of his cousin says: do the sea turtles ever by the guide laughed act like yours damas question. He'd ever heard says and dive, and for forty years never seen by sea turtle. goes on to say I shit you not those were the last words that beach bomb said

four hopping in the water and immediately having a full grown. Three hundred pound pissed off mama sea turtle. Latch under his stomach dubai. That sigh. Yes, I do. I know someone who got bit by a turtle. My friend Angela, is a spear fisher in and a turtle just came up to her and bitter right on the butt and they threw the wetsuit broke skin but I just love by, but you know what why haven't they would bite. Honestly think that cosette turtle was kind nose like it was in this place. We go along. if our blue, eyed or diving for almost in staff by in that today we have and and and turtles will, each time they were octopus. I e all kinds of things. If no, if their fed it- and so I think, a lot of times, people is kind of got to know

that her and maybe we're feeding it. And so I think it was just kind of hay feed me thing, and so that story that you just taught. I bet if they're taking tourist snorkeling there, you know there could be someone feeding the turtle enabling that when they become leg pets they want to ask for a snack and They don't have any other way to ask tell weight ass. Everyone by my friend before we did diving scared the shit out of me. I I don't know what it was and is it curiosity I think, more than anything, it was an aggressive. It is also important for whom he had Israel lightly the listener. His from natures, metal, the order, the sex aging tongue. Eating ocean allows you know about this girl Alex it looks like that little alien there there's a board is not about there's an ocean louse, Lays eggs on officious gills they like snappers,.

Bit. His liz linnaean name is simon, though ex ago for Ixigo. They live inside a certain so that this picture is out of south africa there off you're born in the ocean of carbon the tasks themselves inside the gills of fish meal, its target snapples once their task One individual from the group will become a female, a protocol andrew riddick, hermaphrodite. She grows larger, so one whom decides it become female that one girls big moves on to the tongue of the fish, I, under the fishes tongue feeds off its blood, eventually cuts off the blood supply to the tongue, the tongue, atrophies and falls off, then the parasite assumes the responsibilities of the tongue,

live there as a tongue permanently everybody else days, a male and they all our it's sort of like bevy, of mates hanging out on the gills boys. the females, it's her little harem of male stuck to the gil. The great picture. Our one last thing to call my attention among emails. I've tried to not I've tried to like and subscribe. You can unsubscribe and I'm glad I didn't unsubscribe, even though I've tried a couple of times from the wildlife conservation society, they came up what they their sort of like rolling with the social distancing thing. You know and their say, and they came out of this research about how we need a social or through

out there, that we should social distance from animals better and it looks non consumptive recreation and the impacts of non consumptive recreation on animals and therefore, distances at which your presence screws, with wildlife. waiting burns songbirds. Hundred nine yards hawks eagles. You should stay four hundred thirty seven yards away from them me. More threshold distances a thousand yards. for large on you, that's like moose. You should stay. Fifty four yard Wave in small rodents, but there's a gecko just caught him author here well, you're wage costs, theirs as certain aid in inches from we're gecko. Finally, emerging you really thousand and vicious is made Video, a weed

somehow we ve, we qualified captain natures. Mental attitude is I caught her right there while we're talking about how you shouldn't get so close to creators, but that's really ambitious ask what you're gonna do with those numbers boy, people in power It's national forests getting them to redesign, I think, is a thousand yards from moose fifty yards from a chipmunk through real hard yeah. I can't picture this, get much traction, be real good fruit. Works on me. Laser age, laser rain, find her industry medicare any finer with you, and I think what this report will do is I, think did at war, it won't like it would be horrifying to see this enacted by law, but I think it does make people ask people to be aware of what their presence asked people to be aware of what presence round. Animals do

for us in animal, always want to go in and check it out. Oh yeah, Very rarely move by the desire to get farther away and youtube is full of people like you live like this. It's worse thing would be the year worrying wildlife. It's the way. I would sell as you just go, not there to have a look like a scholar at That's just my instinct man so see in this valley. I felt really singled out before yards from my mom's head right now, as she sleeps is about three inches from a chip. Chipmunk then, on the other side of the brick.

But kimi. Just to give you something to give you guys a better, more thorough introduction now that we're ready to not read talk shop or talk, why introduce myself yeah both you like give it like stick is what you should be know, your spiel. Israel are all yiddish terms. I think gilligan dealers and can we weren't here and I was born and raised here in Hawaii maui and grew up kind of tagging, along with my dad when he would go spear fishing and now I'm a spare fisher woman myself- and this is my husband, jested how'd you as meets view version, No madonna gig, I got hired from Minnesota to come to hawaii to be a production assistant and kimi was the talent on the show in We worked together for a while and once work was done, we hung out. Real here. What that wine to be ended? did that how's that received by the rest of the production team work.

It. Actually, we waited until I was kind of over you not just for the sake of nothing happened on production years took shine to each other. Yet I despair, met him a lot and and and then after production wrapped like we did some filming here and then we went to mexico and then after production wrapped and then we started talking and then Invited him to Hawaii what was the that about them. I like really nice and that he worked really hard because it was kind of a show of production. It was really bad and there is a lot of tempers and stress an eagle? and all kinds of man made. This really wasn't a good feeling. Production

times and just in who had just taken a gig he's. He was a set of photography for snowboarding amble hunting, but he just took a gig as a p aid because he wanted to come to hawaii it's a. He was kind of working, so hard working circles around a lot of people, and I just noticed a huge- is always kind to everyone, and in the midst of all that stress, it was just like something like a tune into to not get irritated, oh and he had nice eyes real, quick. I remember just watching her go pro. I mean she is a very kind to everyone, of course, and she cooked very well, which is really great but most of your kindness. But then I being blown away on one of our troops like so new at this point to the ocean, and when we are in mexico, she was wearing a gull problem. She shot an hour. He So I do you know you could like shoot fish underwater, which spear fishing- I didn't even know it.

Because elbow hanging from retrieve you do that minnesota pretty much now here by shooting at all. I really hate montana, but- I remember watching that- and I just thought like holy shit, this in those bad ass thing. I've really ever seen you not in just like being able to do that and control and then learning more about her, but then once we are able to just spent with each other, when she brought me like, I had like four days off in between hans. She brought me to Molly, where we ended up getting married like eight years later and she came over. I'm a different island and she brought venison lobster and men party, which you guys learned about then we fell in love and is its the same type of lifestyle that I grew up on, except for in hawaii. You know I was really attracted to lakes and wilderness their in hunting, and she is everything about that, but in hawaii, which are so foreign to me so now being here, eight years, I've felt like it

again: learning the ocean and learning a whole new hunting tactic of of spare fishing. You know, learning the oceans and how to freedive- and things like that, so she really has changed my life in such a great way, and it was kind of neat because well after our four day. First well. You know when we define love and just in it was kind of an interesting situation because we wanted to be together. I wanted to be in hawaii, and so just in we're trying to figure out how to get here. But here the snowboarding cinematograph her, and so it's not leg the easiest career to keep living in hawaii and- and so is this really need that somehow I was able to take this minnesota buoyant like train em to dive and ended up being the coolest thing too late mould this person from scratch to be this under, camera man who had no bad

at at all- and I could really just leg- teach him where to way how how I hunt and it ended up this being really cool a good way to bring us together first of all, but now that we still do that, today's it's pretty fine you're! Just together like a very fine tune machine, but you know what each others think it without you, and that's wanting in water, you carry communique right. Unless you stick, your head up then you're burning energy, yelling or talk you're trying to get their persons attention. So it's this all like the more anything that can be the better, because there are still and when I wanted to say things too to you and to care, well in the water, and I just like I wish there was a hunting on land when, when someone's helping me, they are always whispering in my ear and either so many times. I want to whisper in your ear, but I

yeah, because you can't talk underwater and if I take my head out of the water to talk to you, you gotta take it out of the water at any anytime, your heads out of the water. It's not good, because you're taking yourself out of that world, you're taking your eyes off that fits and so it it's? It's really a difficult place to communicate with words, and so the more you learn to just watch somebody's body language and understand what their thinking and what they're doing the more seamless, because like a pack or you're watching you do is very apparent, gets its limited its debts fun to see like that, all of you I mean irrigation and just like flow that that's pass walk. You know. But when you were What was your earliest exposure to the ocean, I would urge my dad's has as for I remember it when I was five, but around four or five,

my dad started letting me take along with him to do work to go spear fishing. I wouldn't spare fish where my dad that's how we put food on the table. My parents We have a lot of money and that's like literally how he fed us was to go spear fishing and do, and he always says it's because when my mom was working as a waitress, he couldn't afford a babysitter. So he just started bringing me along and at first he would just told me on a boogie board, but I'd always want off the boogie board. I'd want to see everything so then my job was just to keep up and it's all I would do is swim on the surface. I wouldn't help much. You know, I would just tell them what I wanted for dinner and watch him go down and get it for me, but that was my my early its introduction reappearance married, they were married yeah. How far back what ails you married was your father, mother, both born and why my mom was born in hawaii my dad was born in new mexico

and he came here and took to just eat out of the ocean yeah. He. He was used to be it now and then he got out. He is kind of you know what to do with himself and he moved who what you in his early twenties- and he was taken in by this one- for hawaiian family and was a combat veteran, he was in the air force and he was actually more of a mechanic in the air force, but but yeah he got taken in by this beautiful, wonderful, hawaiian family who they just taught him, and it was after the grandma of the family that that kind of got him into spear fishing when so, when you were little, did you do you remember at cause. You got expose at four years old sometime around them. Did you. Do you remember ever registering fear of the ocean.

What did you miss? Did you skip that step, No, I am everything it was scary light we would have to. You know we're polar these big tall cliffs. My mom I drop off Some of them are my job. I my dad and I and then he'd have to put me on his back and we'd hiked down these class. It we jump off these rocks and there would be a nice, crazy, blue water that you could. It touch inimical to see and we ll adrift the coast. down to another bay or my momma pick us up, and so a lot of that was intimidating to me and my dad would just like he would just play these like tricks amulet he would owe 'em is true, but he would always look at me as soon as we pulled up and he knew how scared he would always just be like wow cam. Aren't you aren't you relieved? We just survived the most. Dangerous part of our day. The car ride like let's go without out of here, and he had always like say stuff, like that kind of trained me to think about things differently and and Sometimes I would

in the water and I get distracted, I see a beautiful turtle or something, and then I wasn't doing my job of keeping up and I would look up and he'd be nowhere in sight and I would just be alone in the blue, and that was really scary for me. But I'd have to like look at the edge of my visibility, like just to see the bubbles left by his fins and just keep swimming that way. And but you know, I think it was just because I was so young and I just my dad was like my superman in my in my eyes. You know he could in my eyes he could do anything, especially at that age leg. He was just my hero, and so as long as I knew that I could see those bubbles from his fans. As long as I knew that I could see his soul,

Well, as long as I knew he was anywhere around me, I just felt like nothing. Bad could happen. So I think that helped me overcome that fear and he would always just really drive it into me to relax, but those days didn't last forever because my parents did start making money very shortly after that they saved up money to put my mom into a community college. When I was five as well, she was forty years old first time going to college and two years later, graduated got a job as an emergency room nurse, and my dad's company also started taking off because construction company and so that we made money. They worked all the time we lived there. We moved out of the shack in nature. We stopped getting our food from the ocean, we got it from grocery stores and restaurants in that kind of all ended, and so I didn't actually take up spear fishing until I was twenty four years old.

and the fears I had to face as an adult I re entering the ocean trying to get dinner. They were. They were. Definitely you so you you didn't spear fish at all for all those years, yeah yeah yeah most thou leg I felt like I was really lucky to have experienced that, but it is not that everyone dies. You know and is definitely not something that girls dead and- and so I pretty much as grew up like knowing that was a passionate, my knowing that leg, I had comfort and skills in the war. every once in a while they inevitably in the water. I try to go and hold my breath and do stuff, but we just didn't do it as often land did you do the other kid stuff with you in that age, like that's like the price, social adra grebes do in basketball, organised, boris fur.

for school or a servant true yeah I like playing in the waves and going bodyboarding? I was on the swim team and all these things that you know were never quite as exciting. As that first thing I did canoe paddling competitively those were always my favorite memories and my dad and I would still go fishing bottom fishing for fun and catch fish that way, but we just we didn't, spend as much time going diving in the way that he used to and he would use that feed.

As and and so yeah it wasn't until later in life. When I just realized, like you know, that's not just this nostalgic memory, it's like it's, not something, because I would look up. The word nostalgia because I felt like I was suffering from it because I really miss those days and it remember it said like longing for something that no longer exists, and I thought that time of my life of living that closely to nature and getting food that way- and it was a time that I was lucky to experience, but it doesn't really exist in this modern world anymore as much, but when I realized that it still could. That was when I decide

id like, I have to go see about this, you know and I I went- and I got my own spear- I couldn't get anyone to take me. Diving, save your dad's saw spear, phishing and kind of a negative way. At that point, I think that he had to do to provide the key he loved it. But I I know that when I was twenty four when I did finally get their spear and I drove myself to the beach- and I remember I just had no idea what I was doing: when in the water stardust swimming got super scared, leg Wanted to turn around everything and that I had to use little tricks myself here that one point I saw a little way break and I saw the bubbles and it made me, feel calm and keeps will mean that way, but anyway, and that day I was able to get some fish. Just remembering what I saw my dad do and I was able to get five fish just like those a whole, their holy and call and my party and.

that day. I just knew like I'm. A changed person like the woman that came out of the water was just like completely different woman. I felt accomplished. I felt like a lioness, and I just felt like to take this cat home and cook it like. This is the best meal I've ever eaten and it made me as full of guys falling in love, and I called my dad up to tell him- and I remember being so happy and dislike, because he was always wanting to know what I was going to do with my life. You know like I just he knew like. I was cooking, but I wasn't really into it. I would always talk about doing art and he was just like those. not careers. You know when I I told him dad. I found what I what I'm going to do. I thought he'd be so proud because it was what he taught me and I told him I'm going to go. Diving, I'm gonna be a spear fisher and he uses lake. gary, I don't know where you're looking for the answers, but they are not going to be at the bottom of the ocean and am rises,

heart broken leg, he just totally leg dismiss the whole yeah it when I thought he'd be so happy, and I think it is because he related that to being poor to being so poor and struggling to you know to survive and succeed in when they did start making money. I guess you know, that's what you do. Is you become successful so that you can give more to your children, then what you had and you can see them go further than you went in. I guess s: parents, dreams, and so when he saw me like gravitating back to wanting that and it didn't sound like a very good plan to him. You kind of answered the question, but earlier I was going to ask you if you were just making a funny point or being glib when you said that he took you cause, he didn't have a babysitter and I was going to press you on if that was totally fair or not, but I'm

now, it seems likely that he he wasn't in his mind. He daffy wasn't given you like this great gift to teach you to be in the ocean. It was pragmatic. I mean that's, why he ain't that's what he said as I said, but in my mind he had to know he has given me such a great gift, because if you said we're going, I mean tomorrow I was the one knocking on his bedroom door at five in the morning saying I think the sun's coming up. Let's go so he knew. that, I loved it real an only child. No, I I have to, or half brothers, but they're out of the house, already they're much older, and so it was my sister and I who are just a year apart and she was always invited to come, but just never really took to it, and she also my parents gave us like the choice. If we wanted to go to preschool or not, I chose no, she chose yes, that she had to go, live with my grandparents to go to preschool or go now. Yeah.

What other like? What other ideas were you pursuing to make a living and also what does it mean to spear fish for living? Like does tell give people a glimpse of what is selling fish right so so give people glimpse what that looks like yeah well the other ideas I mean. I knew I like cooking and I knew I liked food, so I got a degree in culinary arts and I was working in the restaurant industry, but I was just so bored there that guy just was working with ingredients. That meant nothing to me that were flown in from afar and frozen, and I was making the same thing every single night and just feeling like this is not creative, and I also can. I also try to

and I do art for a while- and I really enjoyed that because it gave me the freedom to gooseberry fishing, but I really barely got by selling paintings. That was very hard and I never really knew how you would make money as a spear fisher, because I wasn't a commercial fisher. I just knew that's what I wanted to do. I didn't even really approach it as a career. I just looked that leg if I can paint paintings and sell them so that when the weather's nice I can get

and go that's a win for me. If I can survive just doing this, but eventually I got better and better at it. I ended up winning the national championships. I started getting attention for it and then- and it just ended up turning into a career where people wanted me to you, know, use their gear, use their their products and give it a try and get photos with it and took a long time but, like I would say, ten years after doing that, I finally started realizing that everybody was making money off of me and we'll start asking to get paid for it or go. Can you spoil a bit the where He'd diving plays in this your fishing and year china

is a number in like going into that world. Freediving is how you spear fish. I know that you can definitely do it on scuba. Didn't do it with tanks, but I find it just so much more in tune to just hold your breath and go down and hunt like that, because you're not you're, not making all these bubbles and you're not scaring fish away like that and there's not. I just feel like it's just makes the most sense to go down on a single breath of air and and try and get this done, and it's definitely challenging, but but it makes you more a part of the ocean and I think the animals start to you. You learn to move different with that and it just like. It really teaches you this finesse, that is all a part of hunting and when it comes to

Creed, I being I mean, there's there so many challenges that come with it and I think just taking that drop into the unknown and just leaving air behind and getting further and further away from it and then just trying to just trying to figure things out with this with this time limit in all trying to trying to understand things in stock things, and if you could just stay down there forever, it will be a lot easier, but the thing is is that he always always gotta go, and so it's it's definitely challenging How long can you how monkey hold your breath and war the long as I've ever how it underwater was four minutes, forty five seconds, but that wasn't like actively hunting and when I'm actively hunting its leg. I trying

but around two minutes and the main reason? Why is because you have to recover on the surface for twice as long so that you don't get hypoxia again blackout and two, if you hold your breath for two minutes yet to recover for four minutes, that's a long time staying on the surface, and I wouldn't want that to be any longer. So I also fully if I can't bring a fish into me within like a minute and a half, I should probably try a different technique and try to fruition

dg, rather than just try and wait it out and what's the deepest you've dove in, what's a normal. Where do you consider like a normal, comfortable maximum diving depth, the deepest a dove last one hundred and fifty nine feet, and that was just like? Oh, I want to see if I can go and touch the bottom and come back and that's all I did this turn and burn. But it was just neat to be down that deep and feel that pressure and, but I would say after ble? I mean like yesterday's diving, we're we're heading the bottom about seventy five feet: work? I can't go down to seventy five feet in and land the bottom, the volovya as a couple. and the waters or could you can see it from the surface? steve, I, as your support crew on the surface

those eggs or swim straight down solely by peter water. Lay on the bottom right all along and would have ended, fell, could issue a big there. They homer yup. It's amazing yeah and that's the thing too. It's like you, you know it's one thing to go down to seventy five feet and hang out, but you'd have to seventy five feet and a big shark swims up to you, which we saw that yesterday, like that, can really take a lot of oxygen out of you right there It's just happening that reaction of fear or you will burn oxygen. Oh one hundred percent anytime you get flustered and that burns a lot of oxygen and or having. If I shot a fish and it ends up fight, in me ends up tangled on Iraq. You know all of that at depth. Can just wipe you out. So it's something you gotta do fully. Can you you know. You said if you can bring a fish with

in a minute and a half, but you don't have you're not like throwing lures or bait or anything to bring fish and cause. Can you explain what bringing fish in means totally and it was so fun to watch you both learned that over the past few days is because a lot of people think that to hunt and fish you know yes, hold your breath and swim up to a fish and go it does some time chester is just on them. They know is on them, sometimes have my way he does on them

at the time lake with smart fish, or you know really nice fish that you want to get and that's they're not going to stand for that, the you can't out swim a fish, and so, if you start swimming towards it, they're just going to out swim you and go away, and- and so my strategy is I just I I go to the bottom and- and I know they can see me- it's not like it's not like a. I really I'm trying not to let them see me. I actually want them to see me and land on the bottom, but then that's when I just try and melt into the bottom. I try unjust mode. My body around where I am lying if it's on a rock or in a sand pocket. I try and just become a part of that environment so that they see this creature come down and then they kind of see it disappear because that's going to pique their curiosity, that's going to make them want to see what was that you know and- and then I hide my eyes- that's important because the minute they see my bagel,

was looking at them back. I really freaking out so if I just keep hiding my eyes, though, keep wanting to see them because I feel like when you make eye contact as a part of a recognising you know I so so I dont want them to see

I I'm always trying to hide my eyes, I'm always going to turning away, and it makes it like this passive or shy looking body language and that can definitely bring them in, but there's also just tricks of fluffing sand. You know just taking sand and just throwing up clouds of sand again, even that I want to do it so gently cause. I don't want to burn out my energy and just this motion of fluffing san there's, sometimes around my goat, a little too powerful. You know like calm it down, kimmy, like don't waste your energy, but so you want to use the least amount of energy possible to do things like fluffs and or just to kind of scratch. The rock scratch the coil and do things like that because they are they mimic things. You know the sand, it mimics when a stingray is feeding at the bottom, because it's wings are flapping and it's fluffing sand and it's overturning food and nutrients.

Come in and want to eat. So it's mimicking that or if you like scratch, rocks together, it mimics fish that eat off the rocks in, and so all that kind of stuff will also help bring fish into you. When you're saying that you don't care about that, calm down. You usually try like hide your arrival rate, if you're, just in the last few days, more efficient other. If you're, looking down and your ear looking down on thirty feet below you, a surgeon fish, you know I'm sorry look down on a pair of fish gimme the word you don't think you're going to drop down way over here and then creep in there. You just like I'm just here and on the melt to the bottom, and I'm not even going to try to like you- can do both

you do try to start in you do you do try to sneak up on. We didn't do too much of that these past few days by. I definitely do that. I one hundred percent was on time, drop in one area and then just slither slither anal around the rocks and creep in I try and at what I'm on the bottom. I try not to kick too much, so I can just kind of poor myself where, where are you my hands and do that but yeah line at times? I do I stay low and I agree and does it work too cause? I always I don't think I ever did it successfully, but does it work to be like the fish goes behind a rock like now? chance yeah. So you can We like get away with something and he doesn't know it. When I called in we kept thinking. I was going to do that, but I don't know that I did that yeah I mean it's it's trickier than you think, because a lot of times, they're onto you and they're, going behind that rock to make you think they're coming around

then they're just digging out the other way, but every once in a while, you can find one, that's just not quite paying attention to you and you can see. Oh he indefinitely once you see them tuck away where they can't see you that's when you make your move and you make it quickly if they're not looking, you move fast, as it is hard to describe so like if, if you're, a hunter our tree or rifle really in a place where you spot and stock game the what we were the hunting fishing was a very spot and stock of ozone. So there's lots of variation in landscape, there's drops there's rises theirs. Little passes on the rocks. There's lots of opportunity did it to get behind things in and try to creep, but it's so

say looking through spotting scope when you're looking at it from the surface through your goggles things, get flat And then, when you get down on the bottom, It's amazing how us how big it is, how big the terrain is and boy the edges, have like a finite finite amount of drops in me like from breaking from the surface and getting on bottom and europe. the squeeze all the knowledge out of all of those drops to be more effective on your next one, but It's it's amazing. When you get that idea of how big that boy I'm topography is,

and then it's like. Oh god, how do I keep track of where that was it's amazing? To even hear you say that, because I feel like most people beginning at diving, they don't even get that late. They they don't even get it at all leg, their sole fixated on the fact that they see a fisher. They have to hold their breath and there s just the way that you guys were able to actually take the time to read the environment. It's it's! It's so cool. I really just show me how much hunting on land has to cross over because that's everything you know! It's like that time when you're, just like on the surface kind of checking out what you can see below and and planning your job planning like how you're going to approach where you're going to land, what shadows you're going to use where structure you're going to use and one hundred per cent like you have to pay attention because

some rocks, are way too big, where, if you land right in front of them, think it's a good hiding place, but you just blocked out your vision completely it does you no good in you guys were really choosing good approach in good. Hiding places in Elk country had always tell people that's good spot to view nature, but we're here to kill them yo. You only bear yourself and your tree when you realise that there's nothing, you do a good job. You can laid out when you are laying out our our trip and knew he had a few days and you laid out sort of progression for us and it was progression in terms of what we are after? How the decisions we were after it in the equipment we used.

You walk through that progression. Definitely, and I really respect that you guys actually did it in that way where we started off, basically with three prongs in our looking looking under rocks looking for a small fry fish that that you really gotta get close to you and with the three promised, oh paul beer. There's no sugar mechanism, nothing like that. Just a rubber band on one in three pounds and the other in its all human power. You have to hold it to keep it caught and you really have to get close to your pray. Let you have to do Sometimes you just get in there that your eyes a giant think it is, and if you have like a foot pole spear, what are they is an inches. I'm in your clothes, close, oh yeah, I say I mean I would I want to take a shot more than three feet away. Thou be really fast yeah really far yeah yeah I'll just say a lot of that stuff, as I feel like you're you're eighteen inches away from it yeah

the other. Like the spear pointers. Yeah is is that really aiming you're your kind of you're gonna pick pointing out there and pointing with your finger, you would be making them eerie, uncomfortable you be in their personal space. That's! But what I learned go about. That is that you have to get that close to your pray and then you, your pray in these little fish they dart. They dart back and unaware of you here and and then it really tests like kind of your instincts in your reactions, because the minute you let go, have that spear and let it fly like you're committing to you know hitting that fish and so you're really kind of leaving the fish where you think it's going to go or just like. You know letting go when you think they're going to stop and

and then, when you do that, it's not over leg, it's just a three pronged. As so often times you gotta, then pin your fish and parents like a cat, and still, I think, leg just really honing those leg responses, those that quick reactions are are so good today's cognac over hone hunting vibe, but then the next step. What we did after three pounding as we did get spear guns and try to hold different technique, which is so much less aggressive. You know where it's stocking and its waiting, and it doesn't mean it at all easier because it is a different technique. But I think that it's a really good progression to have the kind of start off like super, primitive and just leg,

instincts and jumping- and you know and doing whatever you can during yourself at those fish really and you guys were throwing yourself on dry reef at some points. You know to then having to switch it and go to this lake much more stealthy, much more quiet, much like less movement and type of hunting and the speargun walk obviously gave you more range. But I think it's just a really good way to keep stepping it up? Then talk so go onto the next stage, though Can you help me with the what that? What the hell is that, because we grew up, ten years old I came to hawaii and my family. My dad had used a salesman like soldiers, and he saw enough insurance like when it trip through much part life. All of us, even still a company

He sold enough insurance to win a trip to hawaii. So when I was ten, we came to hawaii and he bought a spear There are brother permanent and had a giant puffed up puffer fish on the end of that thing, but we took with us and realise that was very effective, blue gills, but very illegal. Then we grew up calling it the hawaiian sling. But it's not what it is. I mean people call it that all the time and when they do, I know that they're, referring to a three prong pole, spear. But why things are a little different, because there are more like these, these old style lake hinge guns that would have shaft that we're just leg Free fly, leg, bow and arrow came and hit year fish and in an eye yeah, but so

if the isn't really necessarily it's really not the right term is a pole spear and it has a three prong head on. Yes, it's a pulse, bear and then talk a little bit about the different species we are after so we started. if going after men, patchy and which live in the holes and have big eyes, that's what the three prong and call a's and surgeon fish and but then we then we moved up, and we said ok to their goal is going to be parrotfish uhhuh and impair fisher are tough.

We see it in hawaii. There is something where a lot of other species they're going to kind of come in and you gotta let them come and you just gotta wait and if you take a shot at any of them, the parrotfish will go away and you just kind of have to wait and pass and wait and pass and that parrotfish will eventually maybe come in, but even the way that they swim. It's like it's something that isn't always the easiest to track, especially I'd, say in shallower waters like swinging a gun around in the shallows it just the it gets a little more difficult and so yeah we went after parrot, fish and and then,

and after we accomplish that, then we went after after job fish in the deep explained the whole process, because it was kind of interesting, wasn't that fun it was just so. With that we went out, we went out to this drop off. We went out to like this sixty foot, ledge that drops off into the blue and and and that's a really good place to get job fisher or how we call them ook, ook in hawaii and gray snappers, and what we did. We we brought out some bait and just started breaking off pieces and letting them fall to the bottom, and our goal was to get the ocu to leave the bottom and come up and start eating the chum so that you guys just go down and shoot them from the surface, shoot him right below the surface. That was, that was the goal.

There was amazing that we actually did get to see that, but oh, but they get smart self. Citizens were like your calm, confident explanation of what was going to happen at the point may of maybe cost us one encounter. Yes, because as it was like. Okay, so, what's going to happen, is we're going to go out where to start drop in little bits charlie, sardines and the trigger fisher gonna come dance mother going to come in and then the gray, snap can I come in. And then then they're gonna get kind of competitive, eating up the chain and it just like a red. Exactly that way like in a book like a rethink, stephen I mary like ok! So now this now,

we're here. So what's going to happen all the time and I was like holy man, we're gonna get a lot of that and then they're going to go away, they're going to get smart, like I also said like they're going to come up there, Do this work after awhile leg. They're gonna get smart and I wasn't up for, but I yeah that really happened fast, but yeah. It was one of those moments where, when that big there's two of them, but that one was just extra big when and where they started coming up and doing it's thing and like fifteen feet of water, like If I could have been whispering in your ear, I wanna dispossess go go, go, go go, but you know I don't want it it's all so new and it's hard to respond right. Well, it's it's! It's I mean I have only recently dabbled in both hunting I freeze. Sometimes you know when the opportunity is there, but the thing about spear fishing

is that you also have to hold your breath, you know and that's egg. I feel like a whole another. well when you get excited and you just realized leg- oh my ass, theirs effect okay, I gotta go and I gotta get ready, but then you actually have to think about leaving this beautiful thing called air. That really is nice when you're kind of excited- and you know flustered- it's nice to breathe, and so it is a lot to to go for, but but yeah there are some opportunities where it's like. You know. If you're dna reef and you see that parrot phase. Where you can wait, you can planet, you can wait till you're, ready and then opportunities. I guess day when that fish comes up from the depth, is leg nope. Sorry, you gotta to gotta go now. You don't have time to breathe. You just gotta make yourself with you big of war it that we have to bring up just how clear.

the the water so clear. It's it's kind of like it's not there. I mean it is, but it's kinda like it's not there, but you can be at the if it's where we were twenty five feet of water when you can see the rocks. Yet you your ears twenty five feet of water, but you're looking into fish did the right thing on the bottom. You would see, there are many things you you're going to miss, but you could like feasibly, see it and it was overcast. So I can only imagine fills full sun. What you see what you can see down that deep. Chemicals, taking anchovies right? you're breaking them in a half or break breakin thirds and they fall. We saw in a kind of creating a slimy. cloud scales, yet So you get a move on to the side, because if your life, kinda, like if you're measure in the water you're dropping something it's falling slowly, if you're looking down the sort of shaft created by its descent Lot of oil and scale, which obscures your vision, so you want to you move off to the side and then you're kind of europe. Hearing in at this.

the cylinder of stuff dropping and when some therefore shows up at the bottom, it's like when you hear our top of this is like if you hear turkey gobble way off. Are you here out being away off you? You know it's there, but you don't you look to your body to be like did. I just hear that this fish you see, I'm like It catches. You read, figure hallucinating. I remember Kelly, like you saw one and I could see it in its prushun would also there it is, and then you guys are so good at shapes. I know look at when those stark showed up. I'm like hey. I know that fish, like a lot of times like I dunno man and I'd, get all excited about a shape and you'd you'd kind of been like that's, not the right shape, and so the one thing they did show up, but I like the second discussed by very limited ocean experience

a tuna showed up in there, and I like that. You know very much doubt that those remo another. First of all, this guy and he just in their heaven is day with our man so different from the other face leg, tat. What I didn't we fear doesn't birthday in there and these diagonal patterns and just coming right up to us, because it just so fast and I drove dive go down on all fifteen twenty feet to try to like, and I got out I level with em and this summer had thought of what he's moving so quickly, the the gun- I has a ninety ethics and ninety centimeter. Ninety. What is it Ninety share. Ninety eight hundred. But what is the measure I remember send me it is a grey area fishes movement so fast in the region. and so the water strong enough, you can't track it.

Like? If you come swing and by you knock? It is the idea to shoot at a darker you like swinging shock and through his line of travel, you physically can't move the gun fast enough. The church accurate, and so your colleague in this sort of intercepting it. If I had had five minutes of breath, I would again it took a hail marietta man, yet I wasn't a hell marry. That was every one of us that we are I think we all aside it was in the bag and how is suggesting woke up is where the first thing is: ours, guy went away so glum steve sought that The idea was that clothes leg it was

it wasn't. I would not cause that's not a hail mary at all. That was like uh. Oh he's going to get it, but they're just so fast that even the people watching it happen from a distance. Think it's going to happen and a just did it. You know, speaking with rick smith, about the situation he he made this comparison, widget, which is kinda right. It's like, oddly enough, the turkey hunting of the spear fishing world where you get down there and you get set up in a certain direction for this turkey and the turkeys watching you. You can't. You can only move your gun so fast right, so you can't position yourself. You know eggs goblin to you right now. And then to the left right can kinda home every get all my situation. Point over that were exactly how do you sorry about how you know what the hell, sir, what an end

how you know what mood the room and what their purposes are. I mean, I guess it's just that it's a body language thing where if they come in and they're just like swimming slow, they seem calm if their fins are kind of out like the wings of an airplane. That's a good sign that the sharks, you know not really going to attack or do anything to aggro and when they start putting their fins down, pointing them in a downwards and angle, a pace that kind of arching their back if they start flexing their gills, and that means they're, pretty pissed at them and if they're moving just really we radically and quickly and making these turns and that that is not always a good sign either. What is it you? That's pissing them off, though a lot is it sometimes

Is it a competition thing yeah it can be, so it can be territorial, it can definitely be, and some some sharks can just be big bullies. You know, and they just see you on their turf and they just they just kind of want to bully you and, and sometimes I feel like. Yeah it they're they're the ones that decide there to steal your lunch, you know so the they're coming in they're checking you out and they're telling you that they're the boss and then, if you shoot a fish, they're going to be the ones to take that fish, and so you kind of have to face the bully. And so that's why? Even with those you know, the smaller sharks that you kind of just saw me going to prepare this kind of tapping them. You know I wasn't hurting them when it poking them already energetic is has not quite what I saw it gives.

From my perspective it one of the favorite things I saw over a couple. It is in that you know chum situation. That city, described very, very well to black tipp reef. Sharks came in and were we're doing their thing. To me, I saw very clearly as the high school boy In the hallway right, but scenario: Kimi was the boy s shoes, mean down and the black tipp was kind of like me. Surround, but gradually coming up and they dislike past each other. Like two kids in the hallway and This gave that black table little. Beauchamp basic us. She kept going chequered diverge it does. I I love that it was shot at that like she just moved right through it, and I was like did that thing hit her in the head, but she just like didn't even it even

is she did? I was just ass by my head. Is that also why it was so close to the EU? bout. Would you were you concerned when you asked me about that? I notice that you asked about how it can up to her face where you like concerned. Are you just curious, as marked as as like how close to you That thing is, I don't. I sir, I have like, I feel safe, gimme the water. Obviously is she's tommy all that, but I have complete confidence in kimi in those circumstances where I've duke I do, confidence by myself, but when I'm in the water with kimi, her knowledge is ridiculous, even when we saw that bigger galapagos, I was just like hey that's something I think I pointed to you random. Okay, that's something to just be aware of, because his is decent size and it was moving quickly at the bottom- is happy that shack last year

I said that I, as a man lay because that one was a big shark that was a galapagos and and the way that that one came in, but also to say we're, chumming. Okay, so that's a different story like like. I can't just call the sharks bullies if I was just there minding my own business, spear, fishing or swimming in a shark came in and start swimming like that, and then I'd be like okay leg. We really got a face off in and pay attention and when you say big shark, how do you? What do you mean by that? What would you say, however- and I think I said it- I thought it was eight eight to ten feet. Eight feet maybe so you can relate as big as the thickness of it is what I could courtesy woman, snaky, looking thickened and faster yeah and the way it can of came in and like stared eating, charming and doing those movements, leg man with russia. Is that ok?

Can I tell the shark that he's not the bully and the bullying you know, and but it took off, but their windows, when this other to smaller ones, came. Basically, I'm not too concerned about those sharks biting us because we're so much bigger than them, and I just don't think that they would look at something so much bigger than them is a oh yeah. That's my pray! I so I wasn't concerned about them attacking any of us late that, but I was just thinking I dont want them getting too confident in getting food off of us. That's what they're doing as they are. It is getting really confident, In eating food that was coming from us and they want, if an issue comes up and one of you shoot it, then there are the like, always taking his lunch hour day, this one's mine and there goes your fish as what I was China do when I was going down there and kind of like hey, stop being that chum, hey you stop eating that John! That's my term! That's my job

no it s. My job is ours. Is china mom and them and tell them like this. This food! This is mine don't like and I'm not okay with you taking it, and let them know that as long as I was there, that is the presence I'm going to carry, because that way, if we shot a fish and if one of you shot a fish and you're bringing it up at a fish in distress, that's what's going to bring in sharks and that's what's going to kind of turn them into like almost frenzied state is like those vibrations of efficient distress, more than blood or anything else. It just hits their lateral line. Those vibrations in it activates that it's they're going to eat they're going to take a bite.

at once one shark commits to a bite. Yossi sharks has come out of nowhere well yeah, and so, even though they weren't a threat to us, if one of them had committed to taking a bite out of a spirit fish that situation can escalate quickly. Because a minute one takes a bite, all yeah, they went to their neighborhood or la oh, that's, that's a buffet and you'll just watch things get vaporized and and- and so basically, I wanted to just show my minutes, so that that way, if you guys shy to fish, I wouldn't all all have to do just swim down towards your fish and this get by fish and those are excellent leg, she's back, not

I mean a lady's down exactly steve gonna brought this up but how often do you too and is much I'm the water as you do, I get concerned and situations it's hard for me, because, even just when, when you turned to me and you're like hey, you know you see that like that's something to be aware of and In my position, it's almost like. I may as well never even seen the block will share because like, now, I'm aware of it, what the hell, That means me I don't know how read to me. Is it like the ok? Don't if I get a great shout at something, don't don't shoot it or do I have

see you guys aren't getting out of the water, so it obviously doesn't mean that more matt is we're still going to shoot fish. But, let's all be aware, maybe we should have had a talk about this, but let's all be aware that when somebody shoots a fish, the rest of us need to protect that fish to protect that person pulling in that fish and just and and just swim towards a shark. Like that's, that's usually if I'm concerned I'll swim towards the shark, yeah and I feel like there's bigger concerns more than we usually have with sharks like a lot of the concerns that most times like whether changes are where's, the boat or oncoming boats are, but I feel like concerns is of shark, usually isn't at our top level. For the most part, would you agree gap current?

Currents are much more of a concern of early separating. You know if you're late further on the water currents pick up and you separate that's a bigger concern, more their motion, but I definitely eg you definitely been in situations where I wear a tiger. Sharks swim a straight at you on the surface and you're not just going to ignore it and turn around and say: I'm not concerned you know, and I or you're on the surface, in a great white swimming straight up at you and you're, going to pay attention. You know so definitely I am concerned. I just think that there's a difference between reacting out of panic and just responding accordingly and the number one thing I think I've

I always just keep. Learning in those situations is, I can't out swim a shark, you know, and so the only way to truly handle it is to is to face off with it I mean yeah. You could like just leave and get out of the water, but. That's what I was going to ask like if you see the gray wider attire shark- that's not like, time to get out. It's just be hyper aware, but keep doing what you're doing. I personally think those encounters. I really cool answer in he was saying earlier lacey something like oh wow. Let's go check that out, you know, and so I just think they're they're they're, pretty they're pretty cool and they demand my attention because they're yeah they're frightening, but they're, special and- and so I just like to check them out and and see how it isn't like. I said if there's a tiger shark, just swimming straight at me, on this

it is nerve wracking, because now I know how man I gotta swim right at this tiger shark. You know and like I have no other choice like that is what I'm going to do and I am going to meet you with the same energy you're meeting me and if you're not like you're, going to know that if you're curious in me, I'm just as curious in you, that's how I stand and- and so it's not always like what I feel like doing in the moment, but you just do it and you just then the next thing you know you're playing chicken with a shark, but it's like that's what you need to do and then, when it turns its leg, it gets kind of ticked off and irritated biennale, and it might do it again, but you just keep meeting is key Eating it, and usually you can guess, defuse the situation and then it is as a really cool encounter. Word, sir, but yes, you ever more chairman of your team,

great white start: circling ramblers, you you, like you, we have automatically called off its mere presence, wouldn't make you call it off. You dare to see more and figure out what was going on. I probably wouldn't be at our focus that occurs more I wouldn't be. Lay everyone less keep spear fishing, because all of my attention will be on that great white shark. Definitely yeah, yeah, there's difference differences, sharks. and curl hung on the chamber. Tell people bow ear the storytelling about the sperm whale failure today, was now is in germany, and I was on the surface of the ocean. And and a sperm whale was was swimming along

and it ended up swimming on the surface, and we ended up like pretty much just meeting up head on on the surface. It was about thirty feet away. me there's a photo of this the incredible What are you asked me how far away where you, I said, thirty feet ass, I m when I look at their formation I'm not exaggerating, and it really was. It was a very close encounter and as soon as it was about thirty feet away, it just use its tail, which makes a lot of bubbles and turbulence. You use that big tail and use its tail and it just flipped itself completely upside down, and then it just opened its mouth and I could I could see. I could see all it's teeth, you know even from there, and that was a pretty intimidating experience, but but then, after that, I just gently roll it back over and very gracefully kind of. Did it

I have down and just dove down into the depths and was gone and later I learned from scientists that sperm whales, you know they have huge heads, the hugest on the planet and because I was just like right in the middle of its site. It could just couldn't see me with both eyes, and so it had to turn upside down. In order to be able to see me see what I was and then they're hearing it comes from the inside and so so it had to open it's mouth so that it could hear me, and so it was. This is just a way of laying shaking hands. You know getting a better look. And follow a kind of captures. The moment words inverted we're in a gate Was that what's the scariest thing you run into like the scary,

it's the moment. You've had well, I mean when it comes to animals. I think yeah, my first time with a great white in in the water and they're. Just so big, you know they're just so big and so fat, and I just always thought of them. As these ambush predators that he's going to eat you and And so I think just like having that. You know that idea in your head and knowing that like that is what they can do and do to their prey when you see a fat big, great white shark, in the water with you, yeah, it's it's pretty intimidating and but that experience ended up being just a really beautiful, peaceful one, where I just got into a groove with this

again ended up being a really cool usher in that's one thing that I have noticed, you is a lot of times the bigger the shark, the more calm their presence is as and unlike the little ones, little pesky ones. They can be kind of more like the baby, pankey ones. You you just go more experience, I think that to deal with- and I don't know this because you said it through our notice from having read about you when you started out in spear fishing. you in some way registered or had the feeling of like not being taken seriously by guys. What does that? Prime? Maybe in words in your mouth, bundled is like a thing that you ve lived through I mean I can't really hey that completely at all. If I ever really said that I mean I know that I know I definitely do I mean there's truth to that. I know it

a lot of guys by surprise because They just are used to see they weren't used to seeing a girl who spare fish that yeah? Ok, there is definitely a lotta guys. Who did it? Take me seriously and probably because I was a girl- knew just what an associate those two things together and even if I say I spirifores it probably is quite believe me. But so what does it look like that exchange look like if you're in its, if you're in a thing, is it just that? if you don't the you're not invited to go along, or you mentioned it and think that you can't be serious yeah, but I hate it this like, oh guys, because

sure, because it was guys at that taught me to spearfish to like it was. It was the guys that did believe in me that took me more seriously than I ever could have taken myself. Who mentored me, who just like believed in me, believed in me. Believe me. It was. You know it was all men who who took me under their wing and did that so we're just talking about different humans and and yes out of out of like all these different humans there there were definitely some men who just couldn't register. a girl could be doing this and just look like things: leg we'd be at lake fishing turn events and they'd be talking about like. Oh man, I'm gonna go. Do this trip in cabo and get yellowfin tuna and I say sitting at their table and I nodding my head and then they'll look over and they'll be like. Oh, like I mean what we're talking about kimia, it's like equivalent to you leg, going on an all expense,

wait for a shopping spree and I'm just like go to even talking about like I was into the tuna story. You know I like things like that and And- and it's just funny like you know, some guys legislate. They just can't quite figure it out like how is that possible? It can't be plausible that that this girl can do that whatever. So those ask you a really funny question, then, this tell that they just don't quite believe you you know you take. It is Emma Jane is it amusing now to get the full like to get the floor Gerda are to be the to feel like you're treated as sort of special individual because of being a spear fisher woman can I mean it's for them,

Worst part, like all the other silly stuff or the irritating stuff, which is not even neither just not really worth my time and it just That's when you know like those aren't my people, you know and, and then, like I said, and then I just I've had I've just had way too many of encounters of the opposite, though, of like of people who Just treating me like a diver like bats and that's what I always wanted to that's what leg I love before about legs nina, sometimes is, here here who died in what I you kind of leg, look the same as there, lady Alice, and I am- and I think that was it more than any, as I didn't want to be. I don't wanna be just good for a girl, a which that was one of the weird leg compliment you a gap in the ones that we're

intimidated by you, and I didn't want to be lazy and oh yeah. It does pretty good for a girl exactly like oh yeah, she's good, oh yeah, I heard is good for a girl in on it. Just like I do last night like that. But I also didn't like the idea of my aren't. I better than the boys. You know I job that would be like. ascribed to you as a motivation, totally yeah yeah and it was always and lay like good hearted file in that's fine, it in it bother me, but the truth was just like. I just wanted to be a good diver. That's all I wanted to. and and the guys that I ended up just leg pino becoming super friends. They came my mentors leg, fascist, well, they saw me and- and it was just that was just the best feeling in the world. You know just to just do just to be part of this club, where I yeah you're, just you're

it's gonna, be a good diver. Do. Sit here have this conversation like this part of the conversation. Is it not just be totally onyx, I'm just gonna eyes carries out how to navigate this. Like that sort of question, Is it annoying to you that I asked you that? No it's not I mean, I think, like I think boy with my first thought when you asked me that bill via manas was like. Oh, are you I therefore consider it a leg. Is that like they is that leg, a polite thing to do is to lay look at how things are for women these days in this and that I was like one of the first things I went through my head, but it doesn't at all annoy me because I think okay, another thing I have to say. I think it is an important question. I think it's a very important question and before I use do not think that, and I wondered why people asked me that so much and an example would be the ice always enter. Coed dive, tournaments, right and so it'd. Be me and a bunch of dudes

ethically and then more girls started getting into these tournaments, and then they started leg. Having like, like testing them or whatever they were. They needed a women's division and they saw it. Was it fair if they don't have a wemyss division? And I, the first one that was s leg known. No. No, no like why the heck would you do that like are you kidding me cause? I always just like. I want to be a good diver and- and I was just like I go home- and I remember just telling him I said if you're, like oh man, the guy really liked all these girls, but now they're getting all crazy and wanting to have like women's division. I don't get it why so that like three of us can enter, and three of us can walk away with trophies like? Why would they want to do that? Why don't we just dive as divers? Am I, and that was seriously my point of view and there, my sister she just looked at me and she's like oh, it must be. Nice must be

for you to say that and and and I didn't quite get it and then she lay gimme. Don't you get it? They say you're the exception to the rule. In so many ways, issues she's, like she's, like dad, took you in the water, Since you are five years old and I got it, I didn't happen all my life, but it did happen for like a good few years, pretty sally, where I was in the water developing this comfort developing this belonging? You know as she's leg You know how many other guys do. You know that their dad did that for them, and I could think of everybody. You know if not their dad, their uncles or someone. She said now? How many other girls do you know where their days did that to them? And I honestly could not think of a single person that not one single person in that to me just like

in six, I was like, oh my god, you're. So right, like every single guy that I went to high school, with the grew up with leg they're, the ones that were diabetic their dad. Your uncle taught them, and I dont know a single woman who leg was given that same opportunity and an issues say so now think about, like you know, it was already intimidating for you to to get back into it on your own, but the thing that got you through was those early years of of being taken along, like with someone that you felt safe with you know and she's like if no girl has ever experienced that ever and now they see you achieving what you're achieving and that inspires them and they want to get into it, but they didn't. They didn't have like what you had you know and you don't even want to give them, their own division was just like give it give it to us real gut check. I think that in asking to just er talking about it for where its into-

sing to me is that participation rates and in some of the activities, I hold near and endear in thy, like participation rates or so overwhelmingly mail, and I think, you? Would you look at it in fine that you know that there is proper, that it's probably. some physiological underpinnings to explain some of it right in some cases I think, if you remove any kind of like social cultural aspect, I really think fifty percent of the population of people their haunts that would be male like. I just feel like its problem still tilt that way, just in terms of animal manlike like physiology, did you hear something like a living made there why I can only speak diving. I think that for free diving, I I would ask you say, lay think women would really have it will do so. I do

yeah. I think what, when I get a that like a couple, things of reason, when I say physiological is: is it if you like? Different cultures around the world. even cultures that hadn't had contact with one another for perhaps tens of thousands of years would develop along similar lines where you had had that that, like, though the hunting client like but the day that the members of the site in the gauge and hunting and fishing, if you like, an indigenous cultures in asia and africa, south America north America, you want have seen in all these independently developed cultures, also developed this thing where it was. dominantly. It was predominantly man, men right knife Aphrodite, now, three diving, it's the women leg

Just in and I actually we went to korea to meet the handle and their these leg old, lady dietaries, because their kind and that they are the last of their kind, is something that has really been passed on. But for centuries they ve been the wine having for foresee snails for about money for a horn conk. and sustaining their whole island. You know only find in the japanese culture too, to the roma and they were like shellfish divers well dive, really yeah and it turned out that I mean the story I hear is that for korea? Actually at first it was the men

that that would do it. But then I but then I think what happened. Is Japan invaded korea put this tax on on the working people of this island, jeju and and so there's kind of a loophole, because the taxes only apply to the men because they are the workers, and so the men taught their wives to dive, but then they ended up being so much better at it anyway, and the reasons why is because they had then more fat, and so they could stay warmer in the cold water, but they also could hold their breath longer and then so the women kind of did it because they weren't any tax, and then they ended up being so much better at it that they became like they were the ones that sustained the family. To this day there are still the ones we went and we interviewed these women and talk to them and they are the ones that they they put.

air their husbands into college or whatever it is. They they take care of the whole family. Financially, they take care of community because they're, the ones that make the money because they're the ones that can dive, and so I really think that there's something different about what free diving, because you don't need to be that physically strong, I you in all day, I probably can't load your guidance cow leg, but I don't need to because I can bring the fish closer. I know you do. What what what I was going to get at with the what I wanted to get at in the long run around the thing about physiology? Is I'm saying like? Even if there is some physiological element or something like aggressiveness or whatever the hell right, then I think that we ve had like we ve had social and cultural overlays that have deafening impact.

At and what originally got me thinking about. It was a member I'll start new guy that looks at democrat hunting and fishing demographics, and he was pointing out that and that of a woman. who hans and fishes there's a greater likelihood that they are in a family. There were no boys or wherever they were. First child that guy's will route like that. That guy's have historically been like Basically, I guess you can go because I dont have a son to bring me yet, and I think that that's like that's an axe, thing I mean we ve tried. I perhaps having a daughter like I feel, like I perhaps try to overcompensate and under like the instructions for my wife to the minute she found out she's having a girl she's like you're, not going to treat her different

boys in so to hold up on their. I feel, like I maybe do the lean on her little more heavily like have hot have higher expectations to sort of damage. straight. How how good I'm doing ray like I be like. I want my progress to be measured by hers in a way that the wives of a little the unfair you know got like an unfair expectation or a rate. You know somebody like when she was eight years old this year. I really was like we're. Gonna get a turkey, turkey, turkey, it was coming for me very much like I needed like. I need you to do that, to undo stereo type, that unit responsible for so it should become a thing of interest to me and then we hear from people who feel no off a dance here from people who feel like like unwelcome by guys. You sort of seem to want these this this world, be guy, centric,

fine comfort? Now I don't know yeah, I guess it getting. I can relate to allah that I think that you could. I do see like some guys. It's there, used to it being a certain way and they're afraid that a whole bunch of girls come into this evening is going to change the via above it you know, and so it is interesting that colonel on the edge of recruitment type precision here and there right, yeah kenneth, you speak just briefly as like spear fishing as a community? Is it you would you say it is a well in community. Is there a part of spear phishing. That, like wants to like mentor, go, bring more people into the space or is it is it can insular community, that

hey man, there's only so many fish in the ocean. I think it's both, I think you've got to earn it, and so it's like it's not going to be handed to you. Doors might not just be opened for you. You know it's not something where it's a hey, welcome, let's show you the ropes and take you to our fishing spots and teach you how to do this. I don't think that you know it. It is fishing that people are going to be protective and secretive and keep to themselves in a certain way, so maybe getting a foot in the door isn't just like an easy handout, but I think that if you want it,

bad enough, like if you try hard enough and if it is something you're really passionate about. I guess I'm just telling my own story but like and you do it you'll earn the respect of this community and then all of a sudden doors are going to open and invites are going to start coming and and I think I kind of like it that way, but I just you know. Anything maybe in a way. That's even why I was like no, you guys. Gotta go three browning first, you know like used to say dog as a roll up here and put a spear gun in your hand, and I'm going to take it and shoot a big fish like you didn't earn it. you know, and so so so I guess I think it's a very wonderful tightening, beautiful community that I do think is welcoming, but I think it, the more you earned,

backed the more welcoming it's gonna, be the deed to see a similar path in your bow hunting career? I mean honest about hunting, I feel like I've spent, I feel, like I've thought I've earned respect as a spear fisher woman to the point where bow hunters. Look at me as a leg. Oh, you know like an end. They I feel that the doors have opened almost to easily where, like your ears, spear fishing credentials have happened? transfer. I've found side of lake have gotten me at least my spirit fishing credentials. I have all of a sudden made like to me. It feels like a lot of people. Welcome me welcome me into bow hunting, because you will respect that yeah and I think that's nice, but I think

I almost shy away from it because it just sometimes feels like a little too spoiled. For me. I know it. It's really. I really appreciate it, but but I feel like aches amazing things. It is like handed to you it doesn't feel right. I guess I can say I've actually shied away I met a lot because I have been. I have got in a lot of offers and opportunities in an gear is that when I get an I'm like I'm such a big kook leg, I don't deserve this leg. This person deserves s leg. You should really begin It did this person cause. I see her working her, but you know, whereas me leg, I

in earn any of this, and so I kind of have shied away from it and what has actually made me a crossover just in this past week was that it was all those old dive mentors that I just speak so highly of who really train me and diving they're all bow hunters now and, and they called me up and they and you know: hey, let's get together and do a sheet plant and, like those guys, are there and tell me to do anything, I'm going to do it. Lay aside his ass you're in the la okay, have you been shooting your bow like nope, okay, well, meet me at the range, and I just like and I'll just listen to them. I don't know they're just leg there, my there my teachers and so then it just click naturally, and these guys met me no Help me dial things in my bow: trades union comfortable, I'm just cumbria- and I just maybe I feel like I somehow it I feel that all I have paid my views. You know

many times they might use in this crew, and so when, when they are going to tell me to do something, I'm just going to listen, and it was just such a cool learning process and then when we did go at a high, and it was really me because the sheep that waste I you know my my friend calais, who was my dive mentor. He just say oh kimmy, like their sheep up there, but honestly there's not enough trees. That's all oliver really crunchy and noisy. The only way you could possibly close this gap is. If you go alone, I can't go with you like go, and that was like the first time I felt like confident in myself because he's the guy that he would tell me like. I know he never done this before But today I know you can do it got to the bottom and he would. He would do that to me, and so, when he told me go, it was like this nostalgic bless and light primal. Ethiopia I'm going, you know end, and so now I feel like yeah leg. I feel ache ready to embrace that. Where,

for I wanted to say people. I don't know lake is all night, and I am not at all complaining. I really am happy that I have both in stuff. You know, but just like sending me stuff, I just started to feel a little who privileged where it may be kind of even back away from it more. I speak to the gear end of it, but in terms of the invitations and stuff end of it. I think that what you're experiencing is like we talked while the transfer is that you've a hit, and a level of extreme competency at something that is recognised as being hard. So it's an easy jumped for people too. Egg to assume that if you can do that, you can excel in that space that you would be great asset to have along in this space. If I hear lego if if I'm hanging out with a soldier right whose gone through and done. You know like that. They became a guy

I shall operation soldier in life. that world and excelled in that world. I have Zero apprehensions about going on a backpack hunt. Some, like? I don't, really know that, but I understand that to be like some hard shit. You monsieur really. that I can imagine that that would jump over and that you be well here because it's it's requires spatial awareness. Fires like organization acquires the villages stay, calm and think it requires an ability to get along with other people around you. And so it's like easy to to to make the jump, so I think that you're, probably just being a people are like. Maybe I don't even know that much about that ship owners, then that's extremely challenging if you're, that good at that this will be a walk in the park yeah. I guess I I guess

and I just and I guess I I never really thought it would necessarily crossover the same, and it wasn't until those guys who had pretty much like more. You know train me from scratch who they pretty much said that exactly like what you just said set it to me? I know you, you ve got this leg, you suitable all the sunlight, be like way in the tennis. I do. No that you would then right and that you are to infiltrate that world just pick it up, and then it why Sony went on. I did stock that sheep to see how my today crossover leg. A really I had no one. I was there to ask where or to blame or do anything

decision I made was my own and I just had to look at that environment in front of me, and I just looked for for the shadows and the lava I looked for like where to coach down all that kind of stuff and that it really it was very similar, also required to you boys, gestern. So just talk about your impressions, how'd, you do, water before no, I tried meme. No really, I mean I was on a snorkeling excursion kind of, as we are fishing one time in mexico, and I remember our guide getting out, unlike diving down to the bottom and like looking for stuff and trying that in failing

Probably that was with my family back in the day, but yeah. I was really really excited to try it and watching new guys, and the first day I didn't have his spear gun. I was just swimming around with a snorkel looking at stuff and it is a different world like from the top, you, just can't me from out of the water from out of the water, you have no idea what's goin on it's down there in its like cracks in cliffs in crevices and fish everywhere, and I the next day I ended up Karen around a three pronged with some foot from some fins that I found here at the rental house and borrowed dirt snorkel and was like messenger.

So. You probably borrowed a little bit too to that definitely borrowed yeah. I need some of that now They are swimming around by myself and was able to live, get to the bottom and was like trying to like imagine a camp, there's like a cliff here, so I'm going to try and dive get to the edge of that like peak over it. You know, and then you peek over and you're like now. I have no idea what I should go after you know, but I ended up. I think, like stick in a fashion I didn't get. 'em was like one of the ones that you guys had in the cooler with that three prong, but then Steve came up and helped me out got I got the big spear gun.

And then you know is fallen, Steve need point out of fashion. I look at him and suck in water and then spit it out again in like point at the fishing. Can he now and I ended up. I think it was like the first girl. lucky proudly, the first one or two, the second and final that he's going to do. Down and then shot and was surprised gotta right behind the head, you remorse prize and the fish, maybe yeah. I was like holy cow. Look at Steven he's like good job, and I got my first fish, so it was awesome, proceeded to miss quite a few after and then peek my head on the surface and go see where Steve was and swim over there. So he could load the gun again, but it was awesome and I I could get in

It is for sure Zahra yeah. I feel the same way: SF you're, not a waterman, your water ma'am. Are you like this you'd like to probe the world with your walleye jig yeah yeah, estonia early. I like to feel the bottom with my my while I jig, rather than look at it but no. It was my first time I snorkel a couple. I like up in maine on lake when I was younger but first time in the ocean, and first jumped in just give you stare, then you just like very stressful at first it buddy alike. Panic mode. I want to point out that it was- and you know like on a scale of one to ten of the sodalite stressful places to to jump in. I feel it goes over five because we are up in the rocks. there are some crashing waves. As I like your in some like lagoon there

still water. You feel the force of the swells, and in the noise element I think like you, braggin relate to say more carry but, like This is a rather than using element to like the Water moving bubbles in the water our goal in your my bible, as well kind of make everything more intense on this. Alarming thing to me was like my mask, wasn't quite right and I was like getting water up my nose and water my tube and just trying to breathe ski trim that stash just trying to like you know, breathe. Normally, while looking down the water was was, is like struggle at first I trying to encourage south to find something different to do with his hands yeah he's trying to like swim, once I get, get the hang of it and settled down. It was awesome after hovering over. You know,

being in the air right there over the ocean for couple days. When you got your when you get your face down their looked around. What was your feeling of of finally I was a slight eg you like, after being in the boat for so many days, just like the picture. What's going on down there, it it's so different from when you Please take your face down the wall. You're like oh, that's, what's down here this: is cool bananas school, We want to do it again and eventually, at that point, where I go down, start hunting dive down and, on another note, real, quick. The clearing part like I basically got my eyeballs sucked out of my head- yes, I brought some blood versus some blood- was drowned

in this tourney yeah yeah, when you, when you go down everyone's so focused on equalizing your ears and clearing your ears, but that air in your masks definitely starts to compress and compress, and it will suck your eyeballs right out. If you don't equalize your mask uncomfortable gimme. Do you have any final things you like that. Bobby, wish I'd, ask about and didn't ask and then- also. How can people go and see the work that you in just put together and like like how some people go find I think I days where's leg curious to you. I say to you and charolais additives want to hear from you about, like you know,

how how how it was like how this whole trip was, and if you, what you feel like you learn, because I know one day when I told you like hawaii, is not necessarily the best place to come as a beginner and because it's hard, you know the fish are smart, like they might be everywhere and you see them, but they are definitely don't make it easier. You, and I, and so more than just me, getting you on a fish like. I think the bigger goal will be like really tools and how to hunt underwater and for me recently, even though I said that to you, I was. blown away as we just did it day after day after day, and I we wish we are still doing it right now. Just watching you guys go through these steps and see me, I felt like you are this learning so much constantly- and I are gonna wanna- know leg

was at lake like what did you learn? What did if you like? Oh my gosh learn so much areas. For me, you know it's like yeah big and in canada, a little disappointing at the same time? It is like I knew coming into this trap, that one of the things that I really had to fight was just like my eagerness and excitement, and I was excited to be in the water and so in an it, was every single day. Every like every minute of every day you outside chester and again shot. Brad he's gonna grab everything again. I really really really go after it. I again fail that there really like, I was just so excited like element I read the whole time just strand a just just really traded. You know it's like the old

yeah got a doubt as a football coach or at football coach is a dad who is like you, don't go, go, go, go, go and, for me instead of calm down and slowing down its. I just work really hard pushed through. It is, can still what comes out, and I just need to get a better, better handle but the. consistency of finding like very legitimate opportunities, like I absolutely no. The first time I did this part of me was Ike. Definitely got lucky had some success, but definitely like you do in it, I wonder if I could pull that off again and you know after this trip like

like I know I can give food totally, which is awesome and a huge accomplishment read so I consistency of finding those really get opportunities, even though it in capitalize on all of them, or even a third of them. Probably, and is a huge accomplishment like I said, just the fact that you capitalize on even like, even if it's just one light, I just think that's not a that's a huge win, like you shot a legitimate uhhuh leg, I shot a parrot fish like that was like. When I told people you guys were coming late. One of the first thing they said was well there's no way they'd be able to shoot into who in like, like. I just think, and now the fact that you accomplish that leg. I don't. I don't even know if you realized what you accomplished because That's a big deal would you I mean it's just it's so bitter sweet. I guess what I'm getting like watching you

you and just when the water pardon me as like, in panic mode of, like. Oh, my god, oh jake squander this opportunity that you not leech enough knowledge, out of those two like while right here did. Did you not get it out of him, you know that's in maybe ashes, be it in the learning curve. You know I had to look where I got this trip and it had the owner, like. I don't wanna explain a little about my history with being curious about it is I mentioned earlier. We got that pole spear miles. Ten and we'd go out in our lake, where the onion sack and shoot bluegills off the bed. in an onion sack illegally but like when you're a little kid you can do things illegal here, not like. If you were a grown up in that lake one last five minutes, Its way out is kids right, so annoying

a that curiosity about it and always had a lot of problems. My ears, now the kid Getting water my is going to be like ear drum problem is my mom brings me to the med stop and I I felt like I can like I'll, never be able to spear fish cause, but my heart lies my. I suffer from my ears, all the time. Ear, infections, all kinds of junk, and why it started to get I kind of present. My friend Greg finds like this problem. He said that many people feel they have that problem. He's always hearing about people that can't dive cause the ears, but it's just a lot of things. You need to learn to learn thing has so my first like real, legitimate spear fishing experiences and he started supply me with some equipment and chicago walk me through the gear and then I was in this world of of with the actual gear which is hard to get used to

and then being in the water and like trying to learn through a thing that you told yourself. You can't do I get distant. They could go under water to any real depth. Six ten feet. Whatever its, I thought, my ears were get hurt. saws, struggling understand the gear straw, going to get over my fear of what would happen to my ears and how to stop that from happening to my ears and then just been uncommon, or in an ocean environment in the unknowns right beside spent so much time in very comfortable round freshwater, but on a lot less going on much less it's it's much less dynamic environment and anywhere fresh waters. If not moving as much there's as much doubt desires. Much abundance of life does not all the unknowns. You know, I could tell you most legs cat. I guess it. There is not a fish longer than this in this lake and play with like love. Neither that's the case but in the ocean. like shit. I don't know this stressful

Thank you for a long time. Now, the last few years for sure I've talked about how, like I want to be a spear fishermen, I would like to be a spear fishermen on this trip or or like the couple days, a pretty intense Training and exercise we had, I forgot to apply Look at where our like, I got, complement the equipment and I wasn't and com moments where I wasn't havoc a nagging problem of not understanding some aspects of the equipment. Like knowing what the lead supposed to feel. Like my my, ask, isn't inexplicably, leaving all the time right and in I like not load my own gun in ones stop I'm able to quickly ascertain what's messed up, but only to go ass. Somebody soda hit that point. I the uncomfortable to gear. Finally, can finally look around I could finally understand at least what I need to know.

about my ears, like as it does a pathway to it like hitler, here's where my problem occurs, sometimes I'm able to do it. So does I but unable to be like here's. Why that didn't? There's why that dive didn't work? I guess I for the fur like theirs. Day or two days here I felt like I was actually spear fishing and that wasn't just overwhelmed with. anxiety like what the hell's this thing for, and why is that that way, and is it normal that I can't see shit because it's all foggy. You know that in drink, down the salt water today, because I can't remember The start all is an isn't or grey fans remember is I didn't lose my snorkel. There's a gala, I'm here, I'm actually here from fishing nets, feel good man.

it's all going to be like to have some moments where I was there yeah. I think it was really good that you guys both it seems that you both came with a lot of that is figured out which was cool, like you guys both seem to have your gear. Dialed inequities like even You know when, when Seth was talking about just like getting anything a whole different world and like I all I could think was a that must be so crazy to just have your face in the water for the first time and just tell yourself to breathe. You know that again, we're not used to breathing through a snorkel is that when you are used to your face being wet and in water like I would think that just your reflex would be, and I see that thai people just put their head out of the water to breed. They don't want to breach their snorkel. They don't trust it and it takes a long time. I think, to get kind of dialed and comfortable with your gear. Then, with yeah this crazy,

a different world, and I guess I am. I am glad that you guys put in the time that you did prior, because you came I didn't, I feel I feel like you're. Both spare fishermen are definitely do. I think I hear you say I want to be Fishermen like in know, you know, I know that you could go and, like you say, get dinner and go figures yourself. I it's likely even decipher out an octopus, and I know that kind of stuff happens by chance and happens like when you just in the right place at the right time where that is spear, phishing and- and I think it's it's super cool to see that you guys. Can now enter this underwater world and just leave with dinner. You know virgo very cool. Can I ask, were you two

next year and role in the outer people find it part of that. We have no idea what we are really doing we may we created a youtube channel. We created stop euro? Quick because, like the last the first, now we actually met so we met through some friends came. It was a talking in catch him where I used to live in and we ended up. Have many many talks when we overlapped on that trip, and- and there was it's it's funny- that one of the conversations was like Can you say international traveller international woman of mystery? They go on all around the world, spear fishing everywhere and scott, this incredibly supportive

my friend longtime boyfriend and just at home and you'd set this like. I can date for yourself or benchmark to like. Why thought I would start a family at the point, but that's kind of verde pass that now and there's all these other events and in things going on red yet, but you like, as the world, turns at sight married baby, an end? So what's next, That is that's all very true, and, and it's crazy, like with that transition from going from dislike traveling all the time constantly see, then all of that is coming to a screeching halt and with with having a baby and then covert

I the exact same time, do we I I ended up staying home and it ended up being the the smooth this transition and somehow, like I thought, I'd get itchy. I thought I'd, miss traveling and just did, and I just ended up creating this youtube channel together and just really filming the adventures of our own backyard. It's lotta spear fishing, pretty much every episode we're going out going diving, getting food cooking it up china? Do it all whether baby buddy info and that is a whole other fun adventure and challenge of its own, and it's just kept me so entertained and kept there so busy we've done that for a year now, we've put out an episode a week or two a year one year, and we just finished that year and now we're just trying to feel where the inspirations going yeah yeah take a great break and kind of.

Recollect the water work ass. We went up myself a week with a baby. What was the youtube channel? Is this called kimi, Werner yeah? I think it's like at K M, I a space where and on instagram room. You can be swimming and can be sent me ass, Bela people, it is kay. Am I underscore s Maybe I am am why we're here, film, and so with the with with gimme as aghast our show, which will come out of it ex next fall in. Just in all the underwater photography, you will see his handiwork which clips we see stunning, so amazing I'll go. My ways watching you guys had their holy our favorite fish and just the surge in getting whacked against rocks and just like you guys, coming up with one does not

and seeing how much you learned in those couple days in applying it till I going back to the three brown and going back to small fish, you guys succeeded in those really call me they net It was just an ad where a lot of hats, so I feel like we really need to make sure he gets his due. What will you watch when you watch watch me in iran that flags and you get to the spear fish and absorbed with gimme a all their underwater work is justin. mentor and what I might I put on the credits loaded yeah, you guys do your shots, because you're wearing go pros and stuff, so you guys get credit the cinema tower sky. Here spell your deal out: cinema c I and e m a t o w s k. I my name's justin tarkowski, a combination of it, but yet then ass a these guys out on instagram check out the youtube channel

an eye for an eye and say to make the girl you get up close and personal with gimme werner, an upcoming episode of meat, eater ritual wicker, settle come out next fall to lend hanged off by thanks guys Thank you. Thanks guys, the.