The tonight show was severely wounded and, in my case, unaware of the meat eater podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther stay longer good, in internet options, go the opposite way. Do that you deal border spencer, new art brand will talk about this brand new to like you, too old, brain who dare to sam long run with his with his his.

I dunno what I dunno I dunno if I believe that it's dry aged dry aged your meat sitting here, we'll talk about that, I dunno what to call it either cringe niners here, of course she has a desiccated partial fox skeleton that she's running around was trying to figure out how to make an art project out of it fill the engineer, brody and special guest rachel smith. So currently, director of innovative alliances for back country, hunters and anglers like a staff yeah, but full time no volunteer garbage, no no volunteer anymore paid member reggie. You asked bodies, lowood boxes in front, you they're beautiful gate. We. Finally, we're not really into it. Not finally got our like interest meter everybody that everybody in the studio has their wooden box in their beautiful. Like very artisan. It's like a artisan interest meter.

Everybody has wooden box as on off switch and a dial, and if there were not to do this office but if they find something interesting, my watch, let me tell the story girl now everybody turn yours all way down and on your tell story, I want to see how it works with me. My son, my ten year old, were sneaking up on a turkey their day nothing. You re, not everybody. While we just saw ok, there's one red dot is indicating his arm now to strike the second red dot. We notice a. I know it is armed. I'm walking point. I noticed the snapping turtle under oath summonses, lawson risk areas so that their lost interest dress. I notice undermine six inches the water, a snapping turtle lay in their second rabbi, obdurate inner us now

rather so I say to I saw a james and what hey watch I'll show you how to sneak up a grab. One of these things not taught by you tell, but Shape of the shell whereas tail is like goes on and I went up the ban, caught us knocked down around reached down under their last onto his tail. In hall the mouth and up comes out: does one turtle green like that Sorry, my colleague reminding us here and not just one turtle comes up, but two come up in their claws? It is our liking, hordes making love there making love and you got it. that yeah in the one I lifted out of jacket, both out of the water, the under one drops free swims off, and my boy who does if have an opportunity, pass him by was adamant that we now kill this turtle and butcher it and cook it, and then just shift focus to that rather than the turkey?

thereafter, the dirtiest in his mind like that, doesn't exist anymore. hours like you're gonna, have a mighty big But how do you figure and saw that turtles head off of the park and I have to its own way to do it? You know, in any event, him, letting the turtle go, and so over they joined back up again now watch see know to turn it back on full blast, green light there. What what? What like nothing happened to be uninteresting or just it's fading. Now, watch watch what happens when I say like. Let's talk about your injury and the interesting yeah spitzer says he was the one that was original and say you're halfway through the story, you had injury or sex. you're, always you're going to get. The green is gonna like that's the cooked the hookahs there. So how can you, those themes into that tilt terminally?

I must mention. Is this your first attitudes? My first tat is why we have to do. She has like six protein heavy tattoo. Now you might have I don't know I miss out on me and my wife are the only people with no tattoos. Now I miss the window. You know I like went through that early nineties period and thought about it and then just never did oh, I went down to get one I didn't! I didn't really, wouldn't God you're only going ever made my brother day and he got the world's worst steel head, I'm allergic years ago when a real was when you re, he was like alloys twenty one. Twenty years old, it was amazing, yes deal at his arm. Like thirty five bucks right, ours is burning up with jealousy It's saw my wanting to get a fly. I'm going to get a steelhead bikes. We used to catch less steelhead in mission, so I was going to go down there and I go down there and I had seventy dollars and the guys at seventy five number. I only got seventy

That is why don't have tat you didn't know, you don't have to change in your judgest. You'd, be regret. Net tat also might know. I have many tax because, like you, that's how me tat you have on you know you drop shortsighted. Age. I collect fatality lower lower back, one of the ribs yeah. My first one m is a: is a dry fly? It's the first dry fly. My grandfather ever taught me how to tie it's a royal wolf, and so I got that tattoo in the late nineties before they were called stamps who, when you get one I wasn't a thing, so I got it right there and then they became known as tramp stones, but by the time I was just collecting flies and urges wrapping up. My back. I've got three salt butterflies coming next This gross I'll meet you ever now, nine! Well spencer. You guys got work to do

I know so spencer got what it tells him. What to do this this it's about ten inches long, probably about two and a half inches wide its biggest. It is a black hills, spruce. She is the state tree of south dakota, only foul or it's native to the black hills of south dakota Wyoming looks like track marks, running up his arm and passing at a passing glance. You'd think he was a junkie, though it's not like that to to thank you see. I want to get a. I saw a guy had a tattoo of the north american continent. and he had a little turkey foot all the places where he killed is his royal slam. I like that good, so I think by doing that. What's the appropriate age, her daddy saddened to old houses, tease in africa, I don't think it does seem. Like most tattoos occur between the ages of like eighteen and twenty. Two though yeah it was, the age to susceptible to tattoo artists, I feel like that shifted though the pearl very much. I read that was

The time that I thought a lot about it. But then it's just continue I tried to get mine in nineteen. Ninety six, my fly not too late to make my way headline man, oh my dear, yeah start collecting them that turkey, stephen fever, come on and cultivate the rockstar image a little more and we dig it turkey that the the snap turtle turkey, so it was his first year- cause he got turkey this year was Gaza, but we snuck in on a stronger and got pretty a hundred yards room. I called Adam and he'd finally turn and was kind of common and also jake popped up like twenty yards away does often hears his head and I told James shoot, shoot shoot and he shot at, and ah he was this is like is embarrassing to admit but he was like he say ever you tell you like bomb and it was a jake.

But you already at that precious innocent a. It's already registered. They may not know about the costs of two thousand and thirty years old. We just thought turkey is like turkey's turkey's may. Who cares the ilo rags already like, his spurs business, but I couldn't believe it, literally none no spurs now just had little worked in little nubbins. Yes, all that happened was my fault because when he got his first turkey of the long beard whispers and so we're all celebrate. You know I mean yeah, you can't you can't if you celebrate the highs and people become aware of the loaves plus problem and then we caught up adequate, does not quite fair.

it's called a softshell turtle. That same day too, I found the queen mother of all turtle tray. I want to go the queen mother of all turtle trapping spots, one for a while in high school. I would sell them for a dollar a pound turtle. Soup meat, but you had to take care. Piss off, had got him and take care of bizarre. Would you do with the shells very stuff, giveaway Panem? I used to paint them the inside I'd paint like the color of the binding on national geographic magazine like yellow and lacquer the top they're sweet, so when's the last time. You kill the snapper and aid him she, oh a couple years ago. Both vision in kentucky move now gain abroad. Explain behind your truck, that turkey camp at geniuses, secret turkey, spot and which I know about yeah. You know the general zone

And everything's, going great for, like three days were killing turkey's, it rained the last night. We were there and I had I eyes, pull my camper, so I decided after the morning hunt to go check the road out to see if I could even get the camper out of there and got like fifty yards from camp put the truck. the ditch and all gumbo yaya bad bad and you'd. Better explain, gumbo most lotta people don't know what gumbo is. I grew up in michigan where it's at Andy nanos yeah. This is really greasy gloomy mud, that's impossible to drive it a clay bays knew about. It builds up on its expandable and I actually be. put chains on the back. My truck at that made no difference to do just that. just like the gunboat yep, so different, no melt or rain, or what is this overnight? Rain wasn't even that doesn't take a whole lot. You know it's just like a steady rain, yeah one of those gumbo areas. You can go into a spot

and then I mean a hat was quite frequently if you drive in neo ten twenty mile whatever on gumbo roads and it rains. Laws has yet away today right, We were supposed to go to work or whatever, and you just can't yeah we're prepared to do that even before that, especially go on private if you're on private land like we're hunting turkeys, I'm a little chunk private land the other day, and I was very much like man, you know cause, then you piss people off right. You don't want to be tearing up. The quickest way to get uninvited to a ranch. Is to go baja through their gumbo the aims and the cut rights in the air, but either way, I won't mention that the manufacturers name, but I recently got a new trot and that truck has a kid, my dog and on our tracks. Man, listen that skid played that they put on those things that class material pressed cloth, but that doesn't even

qualifies the skid plate and when I slid into the digital tool, raf yeah You know it's over the train words rather than quality brain yeah. That was disappointing. a tour that often poked a whole new transmission, fluid pan, which I didn't know so I got steel notes, plastic. All this is all new training, fluted yeah yeah where's are they. Tell you. They tell you that it's about fuel efficiency and lightweight, exactly I will say it's the most popular truck in north America. I think it's the best selling vehicle in the world yeah, I loved it up until this point now. I love it again because it's fixed, but to all of us like. an apartment building here, if you go back and dogs and gear, yet great The way I got stranded for a couple days, while the thing was gettin fixed, which interesting

it's kind of like the bermuda triangle of turkey, spa exec, because you already had johnny got stranded yarn. His brother in law, oh, but Jonas- was kind of de facto stranded with him, because his brother in law's truck broke down the same spot last year. Do you feel, like your kids into turkey, don't know you're saying you liked it? Oh yeah, he said he's. He wants to do that. More than kill a deer cause. He got to see the whole show. You know three gobblers messing around and one came down and yeah it was cool. He liked it yeah big time. Did you like doing that grip and grin yeah he like their brodie. What were you say? It like corti lou on yeah, sent as this thing. So this is the same river and not be very clear.

We have a friend cody Liu Han, I think he's been on the show, though he was at the live podcast in denver, the very one he has been on the show he big new mexico, colorado guy. He found a book. He found a buffalo skull on the y'all set. Yampa right, I say yampa Jana says yampa, which I think is correct. It's a I believe. It's the law, it's one of the last major rivers in colorado. That's considered an damned thing flowing dumps into the green or yeah, no, yet dumping the green. You, your own friendly, yellowstone river, here's, the laundress, undine mundane, in the lower forty eight a man they used to want to damn that thing. So damn bad, oh yeah! Now it's that's like pride thing, they'll, never do it. Oh yeah people fighting them off to I always try to keep from that. Now. Everybody runs around talking about how cool it is. It is not damn yep they were going to put a bunch of dan.

And a bunch of I think coal fired power plants along it enough and which would draw enough water to de water. The yellowstone does as a good. At one point, can you imagine, including damning the Paradise valley yeah. That was a proposal. Imagine how great their I'll tell you what well that's a controversial idea about there, but I'm not going to get into it, so the yampa, the yampa We are for inquiry, found a school there and he sent the article about this kinda interesting, a guy found quite a while ago, but he just donated to museum. A guy found a bison antiquities school along the ampa. and radio carbon data hitting is about forty thousand years old, his donated to the museum of northwest colorado, remembering the thing up. As these

I do not know what the current story is on these things, but the old understanding of what was that you had at the end of the day. You know it during a interglacial period, when glaciers receded bomb step vice came down and colonized lower forty eight like came down through the ice sheets, when they were receded from amount. and then here they were, and they kind of like poured forth on this, this landscape. That was on that they didn't have any real competitors. This big grassland, grazer and they're living in areas that had recently been glaciated tons of territory forum, great conditions and ne sprouted horns, six feet tipped tipp. So more like like what you a water, buffalo horns, I'm goin out straight rather than from almost

like longings rules, can I gotta mosque galaxy vibe to the more taxes long born after you steam aircraft? Do they steam at this yeah you already. You see those crazy ones. They like steam in change, shape on Israel com and I did not know. Really. I had never heard their aways big ass long outside of his heads horns, ok, six foot tip it's one that donated the museum. It's just the corps that, like the sheaths, are gone when you see one of those suckers but the sheaths on air. Can you imagine one half times size, the current one, six foot tipp to de grazie. That's an obviously that I thought the kind you found that inspired Read the book no miles the jobless one now there's a thing

horn core morphology, which I was. I became a discipline of for awhile and it's like you, take all these relative measurements on on buffalo schools and you can of try to age at least like the basing they could do that with people too now agent, but they used to think that they could, like you know, take measurements on your skulls. whose smarter and outsmart erratic all leg had yeah, but you could tell lake intelligent, raises violet eugenic yeah was that, based on, like measured people's feel like it's teetering on that like cranium. So like wow, it looks like my school's, the smart kind and for analogy for analogy so, I initially thought the one I found the first one. I found a found a couple since then partial like not as cools the first one but the first one. I found an issue. I thought it was an old, but then I had a radio. mandated anna had a genetic sample taken from it and it is the regular one

I think what the reason I like it is. They think that there is a sixty six per cent probability that died within about ten years of seventeen. Seventy, no that's cool just when things were getting going here, hm hm just when things start to heat up around here. Ah crank up found this thing. That's in here and she put in about she. She mentions that it's not going to me. I can't know much about professional sports, but this is the reason I like this guy, a big thing in the news now the the baltimore ravens like honest to god. If you sat me down and told me that teams I would want to go to come up with that. One cowboys. That is the ones that were cool and a youngster, but after the other weeks podcast about ravens Can the old it'll save a name and anna fell godlike fridge perry like addison

no idea Let us do it. I like this guy. He critic I get on the show work on it. Real hard sure you know. I know we have Annabel listeners. Ben click would try to go to bed. Cleveland baltimore, ravens guard just got drafted. He's making the news all over the place because he eats a lot of squirrels, then he had to clarify His squirrel diet is being overblown he's more than that. produced squirrel. Later I say, as he goes into his freezer and he eats was in his freezer and sometimes or squirrel in his freezer, but I always act like this advice for celebrities. I think that, like a, If you want to make the news- and you can't think of whatever- and you just haven't been in the news cycle, while probably talking about eating squirrels, because it doesn't piss anybody off baby said I panda bears the wrong attention right. If you eat squirrel,

It's like no one's going to get mad everybody's, going to think it's kind of quirky you'll get some good ink. As my tip my tip the celebrities. Did you see his quote about the squirrel tastes? I know that he was saying that he finds them in certain areas have a naughty your flavour than another south georgia said there quite a bit not at year end when you get up north, they just tastes like squirrel. Now as a dude. I want to have him on the show so bad. I don't want to talk about football, and I appreciate that he's good at what he does right right. I appreciate he's good at what he does and then his clarifying quote, like I think, made it better because he's like I don't eat squirrels, all the time It's just when there ain't, no deer meat left yeah. I like him too, so whatever to get him somehow or another. What brought it up is you're telling a story. I dunno if he grew up in a hardscrabble family, but he's telling a story about when he's a kid

He didn't have anything. There was nothing in his home that he wanted to eat, but they had biscuits in shot, two squirrels out of the stomach making his own food when he was a kid and he shot two squirrels out the window of the twenty two and made squirrel and biscuits for him. well. The story was that it was on a sick day that he was home from school. Yeah love this guy, I dunno, maybe maybe the worst guy in the world will find out nah. I think he's a good guy also yeah worms grow for dinner night. I thought out two packs a squirrel and one pack of rabbits. Have you done it? My kids, just like it like we like you to brown it in a pan and put it in the oven. easy. Now I will I'll eat out last night for a work thing, but they had raccoon last night I love it there, they don't what they need is now well known after care

We are talking about sis. I was explained it, but I couldn't remember it my my brother used to have a my brother's old girlfriend the tower of power. Do you care? aberration, like some clarification, he's like not a small person. She howard over him are you he had like an eight foot tall girlfriend and the tower power. Just would be your ass. If you got in a fight with her, but wasn't a we don't want to, and again. I also can't remember I liked her a lot. I remember I remember one time we went. I remember this. We took her duck hunting and I remember we were eating, duck duck cotton and I fish my duck leg in through it and said, like ashes to ashes dust to dust result. Might then, through the bone? Remember hung up barbed wire fence

interesting. That memories is stuck in my head, where those dials that that turned out journals, things up I was saying: oh, she had a I remember while they were boyfriend girlfriend she had this cyst, removed the head teeth in it. Okay, you guys talked about this. The other day I was eating breakfast, it's the first time in a long time. I just stopped chewing and I was done yeah it's on it's on appetizing and I don't have a lake, not a squeamish burrito, oh god. No one wants us to theme. Cyst but but in em but yeah we have one of our one of our da theirs that we had a doctorate in doctors like I know you guys got all kinds of doctors that are always writing. If you don't have many obstetrician gynecologists, you writing. Yeah, he's correct, I think he's the first obstetrician gynecologists

to write it and he wanted to clarify a few things about the tower of powers. Cyst dermal exist It's an ovarian germ cell tumor, very common Most women who have one probably will never know it, and you are probably close to someone with an ovarian, very insistent They know it or not, and I'm only calls to you to rachel in korean. So what are you? hope it has one of these little borders any right. Now I took a little over his now I'm going to ask all of you have hair and a copy subaqueous fluid that looks exactly like pathogens, garlic butter. That's too much detail that's how you that's our describes, a great way to set up my my little tasty treaty.

brought in here to eat, but yeah we should have switched to switched around the earth. That's a knock against koreans, producing ability to have to have not put sam up top before this looks like take no, not tastes like looks like part john garlic body, occasionally they have teeth. Sometimes a small job, times thyroid tissue, even cartilage. or tissue related to the eye. Her eyes were carried a little person around you guys, might want to go down and get some kind of exam find out. If you might have one of these bloggers well, have you ever looked at video? Are they called? Is it sebaceous cyst Are you gonna feel one old right now? Well, you know what I am removed ever hear of given way, hangs d. Ask anybody out there. I had one

I've come in leghorns. They grew in exactly perfect before when it might be a year of late, bethink m sit like they're like or pillar Eric. I don't know anything about it. That would like should go islamic problem? No, no, it's! Actually young truckers usually get them. I watch this whole special. It's like a doctor, pimple popper, specially something like that rate and italy we get like an ingrown hair like usually on there, but cars are strong on there, but all the time and then it gets infected, but the infection goes in and it can actually like these, like infected tentacles like go down the legs so when they finally get them, it's like this little lake zit, but then they start popping it and it just fountains and they're like squeezing the pus up from the lake. It just found deals of this. Travesty phones, like you, think, about how the community is drawn to found pop to pound soda third our balance orders that most intelligent men, whether there might be a contributing factor, not yours,

of cage and came in our santa long town. I wanted to do and never did it when I was a member examine writer. I wanted to do a piece for outside lies the right there, a lot about campaigning highway meetings. Like you know, Some areas where those who you have to say that the highways right, like tulane highways interstate highways and they have the privacy the median strip as the meeting strips Gaza, whatever is going on with the road construction. Four hundred yards of no man's land Can you imagine dear, and what not cross in wind up in that meeting, I'll be fine right, shangri, yeah Whatever is probably is no would go in there, and I wanted to explore those with this guy went out. Someone wrote in that there is a guy that has a youtube thing called camp and was steve, which makes me just tell you that in

that difference de camberwell, Steve eyewash yet, but I can't steve. He does the whole thing about campaign in how we meetings he does is an expert in stealth camp. I love that. I love that phrase of employed. That What, in my life campaign with Steve no start camping you're, just like? Oh, I gotta pull over and sleep somewhere now. I do not want to pay for a hosted campground, so I'll, just going to slide in most interesting stealth. Spot youth, First, I'm a visited missoula Montana. I tried to go hide out in this area under construction under a bridge in it it was a very stealthy because a cop came in found me. I ended up living there for eight years and it's a whole beautiful partner. The haulage didn't go very well, That's just what came to mind when you're, younger and and you corbett, young- and I am, but you have a very different attitude about like getting kicked out of place.

Jimmy you just want to sleep, then the is that in the middle of night, the cops going to bang on the window and shine a light until you can't sleep there, just isn't: oh okay, that's cool, but I saw like live in fear of conflict like that yeah. Absolutely, I would not. I would not repeat that Now that kind of thing I like everything, to be all like positive sure, though I'm ok like sleep somewhere camp somewhere stealth camp and is not I like it. I like the campo steve exists and that he's a stealth camper, but I just got I'm too cautious now about the cost of well, we got money and smartphones and stuff now add me back then it was just like well. I think I can break get away with it and I just need a sleeps. yeah exactly is gonna call be a quick way to research where you were to find a good place to go sleep and all business. Exactly the cop was super it's about he's like, and I can't sleep here, but here's some

is that, where you can slower couple of tips is real real pleasant. I'm sure it's launch those actual homeless people as well. Probably I think he that's what he thought it was like he. He thought I was math under that truck or something speaking police officers pensioners. I got a text message this morning from our friend guys. Arc has been on the show a few times. If you go back ways, are library and epps, or call some like the bronze back in the baseball bat and, as is about guys Acu was on the show and he's an expert turkey caller and does without he can talk called turkey's, have no calls in his mouth. But when he's a kitty out of brown's back turkey he would call it in and then it will be well with a ball bat low bit hit two spook: it not bad to let it now. So did it would become less climbed to be duped, not bad? book a bad. I should do I use over the poor verb choice. He would a slight hazing pocket loved

were the wilful ball bat an call it in again keep trick in it. Did it work? These really are dirty god, he this morning took out a guy? He? What word that the land he's a land manager at a property that my friends own and they use my friend uses the property to have veterans and people and allow veterans. Another lot of wounded veterans go hunt on this place, that's kind of his main focus of the properties he owns and they had a guy out there that got a turkey this morning. That was shot on duty in springfield Missouri five years ago and first time he has fired a gun, since he was shot his first time hunting self turkey this morning, so that was a guy's ox good dude and someone wrote into question

starting with why people name game animals, we've talked about this one hundred times yep. What's your take on it, rachel know like old. It's just emanates about where you come from too and, like I think, a lot of folks in the west, because we don't necessarily like isolate ourselves to like a pocket with like super routine. Dear like that's a foreign concept to us. It's like how most of the deer I've ever shot. I've never even seen before to whereas in the east, like you, are you're in this pattern. You're in the same stand, you have, you know, deer that are, you know, super. You know patterned, and so it as a way to I mean that's just our nature, is to figure out how to mark something. So you can keep track of it in your so for I thought it was to predict lisbon outline. Why don't ya adds explaining? Why care I d rather around it to other difficult if ever guy, however, like only caught it wants people got clever with it, because you Every would be like yelled that one buck right, the book by bob's house that doesn't make anyone upset,

saw the bought by bob sauce yeah, but that's not a name either. That's not a that's, not a christian. I know, but it's it's an individual that you're communicating about. So the that someone would go well say by bob's house, so he's bobbed, but why that also become like. Oh, I don't know about that. It's fine to say the butler bob's house, but bob at the bottom up people use of that now upset me. I was just coming of weird: You got the like the descriptive names to like the big, the wide aid yeah, my dad I might add, is a huge whatcha honour for years and he like had this five year period rate was just like obsessive league rabbit after this buck that he called the hook toe and because its track lake- wake the front you know like they would hook over, and so it would always was like this hook and he would like it was a really big back and he you know he catches track every once in a while, and he was just obsessed with it didn't kill it. He didn't know

and now mark. Can you explain? Cause marketing he's got a lot of little places. He haunts yeah. He does Have like some big boy, tail hunter wired, aunt market, he's, got all his little spots. You know like twenty acres whatever and is always kind of watching what bucks are coming and gone and he might given time be sort of aware of eight or ten dear, and he watches over the course of many years slick. What the hell am I supposed to do and- and I also found the like in especially mark situation- it's it's very useful for creating a narrative to allowing people to follow along with a tv, eighty of deer he's recently kill, and yours tran frank ruby, the wider, the taller one he tried killing was wholly fields that goes into the names. What was in my eyes, crazy about you shot and kansas lasher, trying to think I'm disappointed. I remember what they had made him epochs gotta have a name.

He had a name, but I don't remember, but that that was an example to where they had. You know pretty much any deer that we would lay eyes on had a name. We have a very interesting why till lives around our yard and we be still just like the one. but that one we're lookin at last. Some let me blasphemy is welcome resolved we buy. I have our time, I'm sure people that are good at it. I have a hard time like tell what's gonna happen, but he's got like celery stocks of velvet comin out tyres, No, I'm not! The individual's man talk about when you buy while celery still hope together. That's an exaggeration and then caught one of those and have latticed, I didn't cut those in half, that's what it looks like big velvet, knobs coming out: current salary, the salary, but but here's a question: where does that all dovetail with like anthropomorphized saying animals and then I've

Many people say like I'm, going to go and get my dear this That's my bare. You know like over the course of a couple years. You think you see the same animal, you know you're unsuccessful it. You know killing the thing and it's like that's mine and its lying. I want that animal knows you, of course, not like it or not. It is legally legally yours gonna, be man, a lie, your prouder sure, well, yucca soldiers I call on your show, I think, more than yeah, so I think more than anthropomorphized thing in this situation, like the naming of a deer, it's more of, I think, maybe the way our brains work. Is we just like something routines in our life. We like to label it like you want. You want to classify you want to label it. You want to because it's something that's familiar and I think that's maybe the way our lives are. I mean just our brains, kind of worked, whereas I don't know if you're necessarily like like giving that

animals and human character, yeah you're not getting a boat diana, no imagining its relationship with its skunk best friend and they go off eventually yeah so yeah? Just hang it's maybe just where we're brains, work or one work guy from Oklahoma, wrote in his hot bodies, a farmer- and The somber, how they you know, winter cattle on their place and he says that they feed corn and then a lot of our geese come out into the pastures where these cattle are at and pick the on digested bits, corn out of the nurse and is one whereby thinks about that eaten knows. But man, if you eat a dark anywhere you're eating it.

I mean if you eat a turkey anyway, the american west yeah. would a cow, your eaten cow shit. I might not like there. You see, themselves and their coded inner, and they it's all over in the grass there eaten, I mean everything dear I'm sure taken up shit when their eaten, be clear. If you're eating the mints that are on the lake hostess table as you're leaving restaurant for some fecal matter, yeah, it does Now we will in time had we want time had a darker permission. The pre famous waterfall area in there that we had a darker permission where there is a municipal sewage facility and ah It was so bad. We got a lot of dogs there. It was so bad. There were prophylactic now and then

so you are hunted in the treated stuff. Are the unshaded stuff? You know. never to sounds kind of country moselle. Why line? And we would like to bid and had legal, live aquatic vegetation I'll, take some kind like later settling part not to go back and europe is we pay too much attention at the time? I later relies Zimmer good way to get up tight topic of plastic in the environment. We're like? Maybe get this place ourselves in one day, gave permission he Then even hammer, how about it? I can't believe no one has the spot rihanna for several years. So I know that doesn't bother me sam now act. We talked about those little to thesis and cheery to dinner SAM longer in here. Texted me one day was asked about. Ok, just to clarify, I thought you said: have you

I tried to dry as well. How did you put it to me? I said I think I said: have you ever tried to do like a prosciutto ham with a deer yeah, and I said I will work yeah! Well, you're you're, based on that offer, I think after trying it with hogs in texas and set in saying that there wasn't enough enough fat on them to to meet like maintain the moisture in there when I did it successfully with a friend of mine who is like a shark country expert at a restaurant. He, was dismissive of all the staff in and we made it with pig legs with the skin on scraped skin on pig legs. Ok, which work very well really now, but there's lots of protection right all right while the skin right right and then there are the lot of methods for and of emulating that with with dear- and I mean let me apologize up front that I do not did not get into the science of this- is for

as I could I mean I've. I've lied a little bit. This is my this is my is my first attempt at it, but basically both my freezers were full because they killed a moose last year, as well as a baron and Elk and deer and turkey and a bunch of other shit, and I had one dear ham laughed and my freezers, we're like pack to the to the brim, and I always kind of wanted to do like a big hole. Muscle cure read a lot stuff online, mostly just kind of like experimental blogs, amateur artist ate some upturn in my dialogue as we passed through talking about the process, so the process. What I did was I just salted the bejesus out of it for three weeks, but just rubbed it all over the exterior of it yeah in the end. So I just like hat out and it has all kinds of water coming off all kinds of water lost pounds of water room temp. Colder than room tat, there's like out in the girl

the garage at my living on my last place in my in cool whether you killed my my button like mid november. Also you did it back then yeah you did it. You know you never froze thing or anything, never frozen. I gotcha supply, jolly deer pulled the skin off and started putting all kinds of salt. Yup yup shot shot the deer gutted, it dragged it out, which I don't usually do, but we had a skiff of snow and I was a mile and a half from the truck, and I was like uh, you know, seems easier. Hung it for a week, butchered it and then just left that have hung it for a little while longer than then salted it real heavily for for quite a while took off pounds in pounds in pounds, of of water, guess it giant tray, and so I would like poor off water, occasionally and flip it put more salt on rub off the old sol, put more salt on than after three or four weeks took it. Out and washed all the salt off honey

the sun, for a day, because after I washed it, I really wanted it didn't want to get rid of that moisture Then I put on more saw a little bit of curing salt dry, garlic, dried rosemary and pepper and then kind of, let that set up and in kind of make a little bit of a crust. When I meant melted down whole bunch of large that you gave me and allow that to kind of cool and then just kind of painted it over caked, it is kate, did alma, probably prior quarter, inch thick enlarged, but the author her and in some places, but I would I mean I put online five or six pounds of of law. or and then also a whole leg, weigh twenty lbs yeah twenty five twenty five but yeah when it started

so after I quoted in large than I wrapped it in just a just a cheap game bag, so cheese cloth and in kind of bound that up with pair cord and hung it in that basement, I was living in in a dark closet, so ambient temperature of the house. So you know, fifties sixty. He's no sunlight and just ambient moisture for montana. So parochial generally, pretty arid. And then, when I moved to my new place, it was I put it in the in my eye. I got it like a it's like a house on top of a big big ass garage, in the basement out of the sun same thing, you know forty, fifty sixties, a lot of air movement, not much sunlight as soon as it starts to get hot out, you want to cut that thing down cause she getting into like seventy eighty degrees. Your good, even run into different types of mould,

you're going to run into you just brought into more travellers can dry out. It's gonna, this not the other thing and so two three weeks ago, when it whenever was, as I was getting real heart now, MIKE just I get nervous about it and decided to chop it down, cut it up and and see how it was in honestly. I was surprised by how moist it will men silky yeah ion it up, smoking, alot smoking. a lot of it after I, after I parted it out, because it was so moist and it was, it was still very much raw. It did not the the cure did not really penetrate and and and and next time and in in I have reached er. Why do you think the cured adventure salty I mean feels like that's all got yeah but like, but you know what you're tasting here is smoked as well agree. really low light smoked, but it just it. It felt very raw. You know what I wanted to do here is like trail me. You know something I can kind of throw in your backpack and but yeah I was,

again I was shocked by how much moisture is was maintained in and I feel like it. It's got kind of effectiveness to it from having that large coding yeah. So it's a great texture the best thing I had did you have any mould on it: yeah yeah, outside We had some white mould there. There were some little black spots that were appearing, and I think that might have been like kind of concurrent with that hot weather, The outside, you know that that that large kind of seeped through the cheese cloth- and it was start- is starting to look pretty fuckin, we're the honest with you. Maybe he's very, very yellow in kind of congealing at the bottom, but it did but I would always get you know. The letters you moved out and left out hang in the crowd, somewhat doorway, and I did it golf clubs, is whether you for an investigation, probably by men I mean I got. ten pounds of sliced

well like ready to be sandwich meat, and so an end like that with some good she's on some soured, oh and then toasted up, it's like it's. It's really good It's a real game and you could kind of when you take it, you can almost rolled into a ball yep. Now you can take a piece and kind of trim that if you trim the edge away? That's exactly that's gonna make the maiden and make I too will sphere it tender eyes, the crap and man they. Seated by while this expectation, yeah, that's good honor to the. some are you checked out the the lobster fight? I am explains labs, your point. Are. A lot is double the news that, u n, peacekeepers, come and canada, settle a lobster fight a tree. I've been canada, say, cannot get

in the bay of see Mary, which is on the bay of funny. They know it's a giant cut out of nova scotia, as the biggest tide swing in the world right. One of them based on E bay funding might be the big Tides when I heard it was somewhere in england because where I grew up is one of the biggest both sides with their eyes they tied swing. I was familiar with the name, a lot of the towns, because the show trailer park boys is set in that area. We expect there and I know that one was a man- is phenomenal television programme. It is like shows, based on these correct. Fifty three point: five feet. whole crap out. So last year this this first nation tribe in canada, decided that they were gone. To have their own lobster season the canadian fisheries he's ministry has

a set season and the federal right federal federally set season so kind of like their version of our like. You know, NOAA national marine fishery service so this this tribe is trying to really kind of bill more of a kind of a career path for their people, create more jobs in lobster fishing and they believe that the that the lobster populations can sustain a more intensive fishery, then the the the canadian government believes last year they went ahead and did this fishery they just they went for it and and got a whole bunch of lobsters But there's a lot of people in that area who were very upset about this. There is people pulling their going up and pulling their part stealing their parts. two different I'd, really other commercial operators who are operating under the federal law exactly

Well, you can hear they are like you're catching lobsters that I can't catch exactly yeah exactly so you know I I could you know you could see where that they might perceive unfairness but it got really out of hand the that, like mobs attacked these are lobster storage facilities in west pub nikko, be a store lobsters, and then they eventually burned one of those places too to the ground, cops came people were arrested on it but and like what. What I read you know is that the cops were just glad nobody died it but really nasty stuff. The the chief of the er leader chairman, let's see what it was he the chief yeah I was, it was assaulted.

one of them tribal members. Vans was set on fire, really nasty shit really nasty. and then they they really insist that their right right across the way from four main and main conducts a year long lobster season in and they think there They should be able to do that and in order to really you access those markets hidden and build yield build up their their fishery in their kind away. A life in there do again this year and it got so nasty last year in their basically fighting against the here, the federal government of canada, and so they have this year, requested you in peacekeepers. to come in and using the little blue helmets exactly to come in and avoid the the violence. That's very wildly out of the way

and because yeah it's interesting cause. It ties into the thing we're taught over your day or the day we had a law student who's from the choctaw nation and he was explained like he explained the concept of sovereign nations that when our government and Wanted to strike when our government and negotiate with tribes they had you for our government to negotiate with an entity like a cat negotiate with an entity. That's not us Everyone thinks of tribes became Lee sovereign nations, so its interest these they like no, our sovereign. None of this canada but like our sovereign nation are tribe, is then a dispute, with another sovereign nation of canada and what happens on two sovereign nations are in dispute? Oftentimes, the? U n, abbott, the? U n, always gotta, it's far fetch. You know, I think it's that the logic is, I think, a bit. It makes a point. Slowly absolutely and I think it god of tat. You got a lot of attention jerk

got a lot of attention that we went out and we would be talking about it right now. If they had requested you peacekeepers bright and in their so there's there's some kind of mixed up supreme court decisions. within this, that in eighteen, eighty nine, they affirmed the right to a water livelihood from fishing and hunting which, which opened the door for first nations in canada to be able to hide and fish. outside of the established regulations and your pursue me more subsistence, gonna hunting and fishing. But then there is a follow up to that that indigenous treaty rights are subject to regulation as long as the railing regulation is shown to be justified on the grounds of conservation or other public importance, but every helpful for people

listening to can understand as raw wanna give us states I'd like a. U s version of something similar where in your home state sam in wash- join with razor clams as worrying about the regulatory structures, razor clams, so there's a basis Shellfish management panel right and it includes. Representatives from the state of washington in it includes tribal representatives from coastal tribes they together, with with the each of these representatives are equally represented. Are represented by biologists, who do shellfish surveys. And they start out saying like what is the harvest double number of say, razor clams, unsaid beaches, it's already agreed the percentages of whatever is their florence yeah, are allocated tribal state state being too

when the goals and buys a state licence tribal being just a tribal man, there's so they already know how they're going to cut it, because I know how big the pious, but they know how the slice the pie here. They need the right, whatever out of us every year over two years, that they need to come to an agreement like ok, how big the bought and then we'll cut it. In half yet, but that's or like them, the that the moving peace absolutely in that comes out of the nineteen. Seventy four bold decision, which which was a bike an act of the sand in wars and in it where there were lie, there is actual gunfights out like the straits, want a few of the non commercial salmon fishermen in what what they did was reaffirmed. The treaty rights of of the tribes in washington in and cut it in half its at fifty percent for trial harvest fifty percent for for non indigenous, so that plays out across salmon steel head everything. If any fish you can

Or or shellfish you can and crab, and everything you think of in Washington's fifty fifty it frustrates the hell out of people cause. I think a lot of people look in and a man frustrates the hell out of people on both sides, I'm sure, but a lot of people look and I think themselves aren't Can I belong to stay. Raw americans are not the whole thing with them, because all americans are equal wise, divided, equally yeah. Why do some americans get? You know it and on the other hand but I well would be all mine were not taken from me by your ancestors and so on his two and is getting. I wish I had it's getting especially sticky with steel head right now, which are declining precipitously and in washington's implementing all sorts of different regulations, but the one I wrote about this earlier this year is that they banned fishing from a boat on most of coastal rivers for steelhead, just where the all they're trying to do. We gotta hop out of the boat exactly she was trying to reduce the the catch rate, but you know kind of

A bit of the elephant in the room in that discussion is the fact that all of those rivers are still being given that for wild steel head by the tribes in kashmir, release does count as take on an under some route more recent court decisions, but you know that the the it it's a harder part, are mathematics. Now that the you know, a lot of these steelhead runs are like under a thousand and the tribes still asserting their fifty percent. Take on a very small escapement? But you know it's it's, the math is a little. The math is pretty fuzzy. Do because it's you know it's gillnets and stuff, and it's like you get these days a week, estimating how many you're going to get, and you know to me it's important that they still the right to do that maintain those red traditions. But, on the other side of the coin like in some of the trees

totally at the table here, like hey, there's a problem we're trying to fix. It were and are working with w F w and the other stakeholders stress all those problems. then there is there some other tribes, who are alike, go pounds and look at the bolt decision. We have the right to do that as one of the areas where there's a lot of frustration would be that exercise. tribal rights takes precedence over or like the state of the resource, and at a point it isn't a finger. Pointing is like all the rest, wouldn't be screwed up if it weren't for you guys right, but like ok, still screwed up. It was white men that put canneries on the mouse and all those rivers. You know eighty hundred years ago, his own all that's true and wrong ass. True, but does that then mean that when you have population of a thousand fish entering a river does. Does the fact that it's your fault mean that we should kill? we should continue to kill half of every year as it as a display.

our tribal rights is tricky not as tricky as hell. You want a good segue yeah, please. This connects washington with canada great phenomenal, so this was another canadian supreme court, a case that was decided in two thousand hen, rick de swat, all of washington state. He lives on the confederated, Colvin reservation or the spoke can cross up into b c and killed and elk out of season without a license cross on. No, it is in his truck but went over her with his eyes with his wife, so where's my he wandered to cross the border. Oh, no, no! No! No! This is very deliberate. He killed this Elk and then reported him set and then went and told the game warden hey. I killed So can I make sir I'm exerting my coordinating international boundaries, yeah he's a member of the cynics tribe or the arrow lakes, people that were traditionally lived in that the arrow lakes region of of british columbia; donor that as but I'm took towards up there

the last canadian member of that clan drug died and nineteen fifty three and it had been declared, extend extinct clan by the canadian government, basically are making the reservation systems and everything and in or more around the turn of the century. That ban mostly moved washington, just as they were kind they kind of got squeezed out of that area. in very few, were left in the last of them died, but I got a call from from richter swaddle in twain seventeen. He said. I know for a fact, my ancestral ground, for here, if somebody didn't start this than it would never get going so he was he was cited for this out, like you, we're just went in and said hey. I did this this end, I'm I'm this exercising my treaty right. He was cited. He was acquitted in trial

and then the government of b c appealed and lost and then appealed and lost in an appeal to the canadian supreme court just recently ruled that he had the right to do that that that he is a an aboriginal person of canada. Let's see the ruins the supreme court can affirms that regardless of citizenship are reticent and see aboriginal peoples of cannot do. Canada do have rights and those rights are protected by the canadian constitution, and this is the first time of the supreme court of Canada has interpreted what needs to be an operational people of canada, and that does not require living and canada. It only works

wires that your ancestors did. Who was this intention when he killed the Elk? Yes, this was. This was definitely his. This was his goal, the disease, the oak. It's great question! I don't know this one as well as Herrera can be dry age banal. That's really interesting man yeah, you wanna, take them! huge ramifications for went on. I mean it's like this, it's legally interesting, but I don't know that it's gonna be, as you know, that up with all of these issues you to make a lot of smoke. No, but Well, it's not always it's not always lay. It does not always borne out that it's hard to tell in practice like in practice wielder. Would there be a flood of

individuals leaving northern washington driving into bc in shooting out, or would it be a thing that will not become a thing or is it just that b? I wanted to clarify that I could in ten years ago by and you don't hear of anyone going cornell cunning and b c from the coalville it's hard to know. It's a way. It's wastage, it's ways to travel and that that country up there is vast and and I'm not convinced that the Al Qaeda was you would be better there and, I believe, we have your treaty hunting rights in washington too. So yeah, that's a that's a that's a one's, a head scratcher and I I need to read more into it. It's interesting kind of dual citizenship: yeah, ah we're going to hit on some great. We talked about quite a bit of a windmill won't time,

go. The Herrera case in wyoming, very similar in that has do with, like you know, trying to clarify codified treaty rights or just the guy in the crow reservation. Herrera. was his first name. Clayton craven Herrera was on the crow reservation and wyoming the former game warden in and you are twenty fourteen, he into friends, crossed out of the cross. Chicken in montana yours are you into the abyss yeah into wyoming across the they cross the border on foot they insisted they didn't mean to do that. They didn't know they'd crossed the border but kind of immaterial. At this point, And they killed a couple Elk under national forest bighorn bighorn national forest locals found some power

really butchered animals report it to game warden. He conducted investigation, which was assisted by the fact that Cleveland herrera reached out to him asking if he had had knew about some poaching or something like that cause because he was, he was a warden at that time at which led this. This game, warden dust, ensure my wife's I've spoken to start looking at her as facebook, page and sir pictures of him. Without that he's, like that looks like it's on the bighorn national forest went up into. That area was able to match those photos to Carcasses was Herrera tribal game, warden or yak dry, o game, warden, yeah, three men were charged with poaching and the animals were confiscated. Two of them pleaded guilty, but Herrera claimed that under the eighteen sixty eight second treaty of fort laramie that guaranteed

tribal right to hunt on unoccupied lands of the united states, so long as gay may be found thereon. So this this has We had been litigated before in eighteen, eighty six. They can they kick it. That's an interesting yod language. Yet, in the treaty very, very interest so long as gang. We found there because It was decided at one point Elk, we're extirpated from the big where national forest yeah, but all this stuff, I mean the it's just weird to say that that I'm lightless a lesser there was no game there. And in someone's walking round this warm hunting and somebody like but has no game here. Your violating treaty rights is no game here we're going to add. I guess they primarily in perpetuity yeah, but you team, sixty eight? You know as well as I do that the other bison were on their way out. In there in that area, and so in some people have spoken

bout. This are like yeah. That was an acknowledgement of the fact that lake They saw it as like we're wiping out we wiping out this. This area of of game and there s no one's gonna honey, just just strike that all these things are so carefully worded. I would love to talk to the person, the big. What if there's nothing there? Who cares about here, oh yeah, but right here's. Why I want to clarify an end. But the word on occupied, is by far the most interesting, as does the sticky one and in so this this went before the supreme court january. Twenty eight nineteen. and they were really interested in unoccupied and is pretty interesting to read the transcripts because they are just like goofing off. Unlike what couldn't signify occupation. Is that because is there there's there's past cases that have said that the area

became occupied when why why arming became a state, because all states enter on the same footing and are able to manage the game in the hunting within their territory a whole other court case, sir that those treaty rights had been extinguished, win the bigger No forest was was designated and I'm occupied by the forests are exactly became occupied by the forest service. The supreme court I'd states disagreed with that they didn't they even go so far as to overturn that specific opinion in its interesting is that specific opinion was the exact same thing: it was a crow tribal member crossing into I omitting into than bigger national forest and killing and l, and so there there's an thou, does supreme court decision from nineteen eighty five. But then there is another. in court case, minnesota, verse, Mille, lacs band of chippewa indians. That designation of of public land did not extinguish hunting and fishing rights

all. Basically, the supreme court said is that there is on you pied land, it did not become, are occupied by statehood or designation of the of the bighorn national forest. They tweet around with the ideas like if it's to a road and a trail, maybe that's occupied, but, like your big wilderness area like be hard, pressed to prove occupancy cause. You literally can't live their stay. There Aki ought like the alarmingly occupy the area so that they said that there is not occupancy and that the treaty right is is well and good. But as the supreme court usually does it think it very narrow ruling and then they remanded it. back to the lower court. So they come back and say that people do need to better define some things exactly basically the descent there. The samuel Alito was. I you know that the real

issue here is, is this is the concept of issue precluding because this same court case has been played out before in eighteen? Eighty, five, a crow I will member killed an outlook on the big whore national forest and was prosecuted, and they said that that area was occupied. So the basically this this first lower court just went back on that they're like issue precluding again because the supreme court of the? U S, didn't dinner, dress that except in the in the descent, and they said, issue preclusion. So now this is being appealed up from the county circuit court to the to the wyoming circuit court, which will likely hold in favour of issue preclude against the likely get appealed again, but where a major speed bump in this comes, and so A lot a lot of people are supporting this guy, a craven herrera going to the supreme court and there's the presumption that he'll go there again, maybe maybe two more times to work. Bunch of these issues, but he's got,

self in a lot of trouble with the law. Since then, in twenty twenty, he was charged with stealing a car. in january and buying meth in march when they seized his phone. They found eight hundred and fifty images. containing explicit materials, relate to children be clear. These are all claims right. and then this element gone through. We draw no but he's bit, but he's beneficially charged with longer with these crimes. And in July he was accused of strangling somebody. The failure of the time yeah so So this this case was, I draws into question his ability to revisit the supreme court. Exactly so draws into question his ability to maintain the pro bono support of some of the biggest and fanciest law firms in the united states, because

the all those lawyers you know are always thinking about their public image and a and Provo giving pro bono support to an accused. Child pornographers is now look good and even the crow tribe isn't isn't happy. this any more and they ve been my pushing in pushing and pushing it so like what some people who are reading the tea leaves our like. They may drop this appeal, they may they may saddle this day. They may end up not per doing it and because the concept of issue preclude and makes it so difficult, because this exact same issue has been litigated before so they may take a step back. Let this one slide like clay in your next time. It goes the before the supreme court, craven Herrera, maybe in so they're they're, like what that they may take a step back, I can let somebody else will push the issue. Some other time and if they were smart about it, they would have them poaching, gonna, be a land or shoot it

dear dear, in the in the day for national for us, because the issue of crow to bighorn ash forest in killing and Elk out of season. That's already been litigated. That's where we're gonna crack issue precluding thing, so they need to take it. They need to take it, crack at it. If they, if they want to get their hunting rights and wyoming, but it worth mentioning that, after that supreme court decision, Montana was like yeah. You guys are good like on public federal the planned in in montana the crow tribe can exert their the treaty right. That is why we always find it again. Now. Can you back up for a second and just explain that khazars prior people that are familiar with what's gonna like What her air is trying to establish here, presumably, is that they can go hunting unoccupied lands without following state fish and game was right there. Their exercising their right to kind of

all their own hunting regulations. If you will like they can just go where they want and when they want and how they want rather than following state laws exactly okay, and I think the lesson that we had covered this we sort of drug it out to like the most extreme example, would be them going like yellowstone matches within within the territory there their old territory right, yeah, especially if you said federal land in montana, there's like three percent of yellowstone national park, that's federal land in Montana yeah, so my butte montana doesn't regulate the hunting within nash, yellowstone national park, so that'd be a question for the park service specifically, but since we're into the the concept you know of of optics here that ones, that's not a good look. You would

congress involved in on the rocks on again against you in congress, would be the final arbiter of something like this. So it real bad idea for for them to ever go to shoot something yellowstone in that that would go very poorly go through. Oh, I had come for a job on nice thing was interesting when this went to green corridors? All these details like room you're here it? How substantiate the are that arm? I had heard a rumour again, a rumor substantiated like. I, don't have any evidence that, as I heard a rumour from someone that more of these had been shot or seventeen or eighteen times, vesture or not. I had heard that and I think it is borne out that there are only like gore may, butchered only part portions, some out, not origin, backdrops, some, sell me out so heads back straps, one out, not touched it all right and then you factor in the the

these new regulations are these new things it that, coincidentally, involve this individual? It's all immaterial too. Yeah they know one say like the court. The spring Where is it going to be like yeah? Well here, cut the head off does not cool; it doesn't matter to them. ones, asking them their opinion about, that is like? Can you go negotiate in all these little details that, in your head or like had an old man seems real, you know seems fishy. It doesn't matter. It definitely matters now, because that that even even the members of the supreme court are gonna take note of of some of them bigger, no really bigger stuff aunt, but like especially in holland, in heart, in the crow try that they don't They may not want to have this guy's name tied up in the end, this big in this big court cases just it's it's a bad look and politically

asterisk, so they one final note. I want to point out again charged yeah right right, alleged yeah, like you charge, were there as a guy. Isn't gonna court? Is the benelux jury verdict charged yet. so you just after they endure, but that's use charged, and I, no a bunch about a bunch more stuff that is purely alleged not charge and I'm not even to go so far as dimension, but no formal charges yeah exactly trot. Here. Let me see this one up, then. Oh I'm, on top of this one too, then we're gonna we're gonna move on to some different subjects, but nor start in alaska have last different year. We we hear down here in the lower forty about reservations, right, tribal reservations

in alaska when they ve got a divided up alaska. Formally we created these tribal corporations right and they maintain a lot of subsistence tribes of their maintain. A lot of subsistence, hunting and fishing rights game is, is managed through, like federal subsistence boards and the state kind of negotiate together and come up with rules a couple years ago there was a thing to happen in south central south central issue: alaska, where a federal subsistence board Made a move in favour of tribal interests that limited big game hunting. federal email on federally manage public lands, limited big hunting to exclude certain individuals and to make it seem? Like became honey four moose certain times a year, only open to tribal

groups or subsist assistance, yeah subsistence groups, Those are pretty small areas: now in alaska, there's a move to, I think it does. It encompass sixty million acres of federally manage public land, sixty million to make. It went ahead and tribal members that the sums tribal subsistence, my messages that religious federal subsistence, federal subsistence, guy and I think it's a million acres, sixty million acres of federalism and his land would be, I was too not just non residents of alaska but close to residents of alaska. Sixty million acres closed the residents of alaska and in the fall big game season. Only open too.

Federally recognise subsistence users on just from to demonstrate my own biases. I hunted this area one time for care, but which would now be if this guy through which would be illegal me to do yeah absolutely, and I think it's really important within those ones, choosing jug knowledge, nord islands yeah this This is not at. This is not a tribal thing. This is. This is not a try verses versus the white man. This is this is ever buddy against everybody. A lot of these communities are very diverse and have a lot of korean influence and there's a lot. It there's a lot of blood, a white people and all sorts of races out there. So it's it's more. Close verses, outsiders and that sixty million acres is really easy, a picture. If you like think of alaska, it's basically like the upper left hand corner it's a giant area unit units, twenty three and twenty six, a the

northwest arctic and the, and so the other, the the systems board up there in April submitted spare action request to close that that that that special action request submitted to the federal subsistence board. That board is made up of three local subsistence hunting community representatives in five representatives from government agencies, including the bill in the forest service. National parks are issues fishing mileage service and the indian abuse of indian affairs. Basically they did, they ve been getting upset with with with out a stout side. Hunters come in like you and me fly in, and there was not a stir being the regulations, but is not a guy. it is not a resource issued. Its social issued, its social issues is politically The herd is strong. There's a lot of animals as people don't want to deal, they don't want to deal with other people. It's not like someone can say like hey, that caribou are vanishing, it's that and if there's plenty

animals, but the spot I go to and sometimes there's all the people there, and I don't want those other people to be their way, and you need to explain that like so it's what is subsistence? What is the subset subsistence community like? What's the difference here, certain certain in certain zip code What's yours of year of subsistence use, you can qualify resistance in Madame geometric, not abated urban areas that an economic space, yeah, I think knows you could be bill gates with all his troubles Bill gates could live. bill gates could live in certain areas, ones being that the majority of alaska and be a local subsistence user has nothing with your? It has nothing to do your means as you, with your primary place, a resident. What I'm saying is: what's the difference between a subsistence and say if I went up there to hunt. You would not be out their hunting under for subsistence law. You,

be hunting on her federal subsistence. Let me give you five can be like a guy. You know my hijackers. Yes, ok, If I lived at my if I, moved my fisher, yep and as far as a primary place of residence that my fishing, I would be able to write now on federal lance, my dear seas, as a or if I lived in fair banks or anywhere genuine, lower forty eight the personnel is, a montana has a fish back there I can hunt on federal lands, starting. on august fifteenth if I lived at my fish shack full time, I just our hunt dear, I think, some time in june. I the only antlered dear. If I lived in my fish back full time, I could shoot doze if I lose them, fish egg full time I could run it held long one with thirty hooks if I lose my fish. full time I could run ninety black cod hooks honour on a long line there

that's. Why would I would have no halibut limit off my lord That is why I have I have a limit of two per day: the railway- they have their salmon. The subsistence rules and regulations are different. Yeah you can run as its funding in some areas because you can live in anchorage but there's Here is where, if you go in your ear alaska resident in a subsistence area, you can then operate under subsistence regulations. For instance, a person from anchorage could go to certain areas on the alaska peninsula and run a drift gill nets for What does your brother do? Any of that like? Does he have access to that? No, I don't know, but you know they do see. It gets. A little Get a little bit or my waiters on this because they go did like he every year goes dip netting so he ever goes to the copper are Whatever he's rivers, no go down there and it's like your loud twenty five Zack eyes for the head of the household, intends

archives, for every additional household member and you can net him. Can you explain the principle of I mean? I think we know what subsistence means as a word, but the principle of us pushing subsistence yeah when alaska entered and stay heard. No and ilsa that's what a stable. there as no good yeah, so the alaska, national interest, lands, conservation, act or prey got that backwards, but in the seventies, which was what you know undercut under the carter administration, which was what kind of created the the tapestry of a federal public lands that we know today in Alaska. That's what state wash the regional subsistence boards and the system that we know, and it also gave pre eminence of subsistence harvest over recreational. Invest so in any of these considerations. Subsistence comes first, though, people who

the people who actually live off the land they get, they get they at first they get first helping europe. Always what noise got. It doesn't need to be the you act, did they dont define it doesn't need to be that you actually live off the land. It's where I live right right now, it s a billion area and eat twinkies. I have a great example: and you can be a subsistence. You can be a subsistence user is just where you live and I think, and I'm pretty sure we're not talking about the dip netting. I don't even think that's federal, I think that's a state thing: okay, but still state dip netting, still states, I'm sure, but thousand people correct me that again, man is up. It's a byzantine team like regular, restructure, that I know little snippets of I'm not a subject matter expert on this year and it is really interesting bit byzantine- might be a good word for it, because these regional subsistence boards, of which there are ten basically kin,

do a lot of the season setting further area within within their kind of their their territory. So this regional subsistence board in the northwest art act has submitted this special action request to close caribou and moose harvest during the cariboo and moose season for just just this year, that's what the special action requests. Twenty twenty one august and september close to non federally qualified subsistence is no weight, as the final you're! No, of course not know. It is worth pointing out here that the state game agency hates us hates this year, there. There management authority there man men authority is being pulled attempting. People are tending to pull their management authority from a quadrant of the date and is not even an issue, a resource abundance. No we're fighting that that led the one you mentioned that from a couple years ago, previously the knell china unit gm you their fighting that in court by tooth and nail and they they said

and Ben Morgan, who I talked to last night said like all avenues available to us. This is like all out war against this Oh there's a hearing on April on April, twenty third before the federal subsistence board, and that was pretty interest. was actually able to go to it, but ran four and a half hours long. They opened up I've day, written comments period? All of this is brand new there. used to being a rubber stamp agency. There used to being thanked for everything they do by these subsistence communities, because there does their their government governing structure is meant to be very permissive towards these regional subsistence boards and to be to assist them in what they would to do in the changes they like to seek and they're not use to anybody paying any any the slightest bit of attention, there's never more than a dozen people there, and it's mostly just like agency representatives. They took spoken testimony from a hundred and six people

over six hours or somethin. There are fourteen and support this special action request and ninety two against it there. several like entire families, including the grandfather, father, son, grandson kind, a cause You're like a now eat. Is it a lot of little ass? You look at it be like outsiders, verses insiders. You know certain bag limit things and, like you know, you can't right now present the aim or they have less the less access to resources, in that's fine us, that's how it goes in every state. This is. like a last guns against alaska. Does this send to alaska means you just access to two like the northwest quadrant of your state and federal land, yeah they'll is also a violation. There's always been not always. I think that in the countries I've have towards is sort of like separation of church and state. You have a lot of federally manage lands right and I think it's a great system federal

and his public lands are pre, secure, life are demands, but whence, while they found it at its best managed by the state. Somebody will be like well, how can they both have one? How can how can it be? Ok for the government manage land stays lands, wildlife, it just works, really good like to see where wound up round up and has been successful and pure, as you interrupted yeah, a brute are the locals that are in support of this, the minority of local centre in support of this, justifying it because they're saying they're having harder time feeding themselves. What so that's what day they leave that caribou migrations have been drastically interrupted in their blaming that on outside hunting, where a lot of people are like might be. Climate change The snow patterns, the weather patterns, the seasonal temperature has been a lot different. Will, plus migrations wrote, migrate, eminence of coal field of study, yeah, caribou migration routes change gradually all the time- and this

who population lives, playwright tonics, they drift all over the place yeah twenty years, though, cross river in some place and then one. Two years ago, by an they don't come within a hundred miles of their yeah, like a sea, I nba, J and tiara cp all submitted comment. on this and have taken an active role, and that's what I mean ba specifically in my article about this I quoted you guys set, is saying like hey, you know, might be. Mother might be some other things, but there is also an element of that that there. a lot of stuff in the in the testimony and in the special action request about poor treatment from outsiders that people are are rude to them when they run into them on the codebook river that that they're like sky was an asshole tunisian zone. Is a socialist. It's it's completely social issue. I don't they can hold sixty million. There's a land hostage over some people not get along. There are other ways to solve too. There are other ways to resolve issues, especially when people have

I know a constitutional right to the same access to that. You know for a service or u s, fish and wildlife service ground. We discovered this on the website on April sixteenth now over a month later, has a sentiment change it all around this or or do bleich organizations in the state and everyone else. They all still have the same stance as a month ago. The trenches are deeper, and this is likely going to the going to go before have a vote of the board in mid june. The date hasn't set. Yet I and eighty f and g is, is very worried that it's going to pass lives, alaska, fish and game alaska, fish and game. My my my contact Ben was was saying that it's like it's very likely that this will pass the board. May try to debate board may try to dismiss it. They may try to seek a compromise. They may also pass it. So I said: there's eight members of that board, three of which are regional subsistence representatives, ones, bureau of india.

Ferris. So that's for in favour the rest or federal agencies, the one from the parks you're, the guy from the park services knew so they don't really know how he's gonna go, but they ve been they had a hung vote before, because it's it's even number so like that they're working on that math, they don't know, but there definitely bracing for this to go through. You know this is like if you have any addressing any interest in hunting or fishing alaska, this on how to pay attention to the more time of the guy cross and from washington beseech. You know it's like signal, can't legally. But what is it really gonna meet this right here, because there are plenty of other. is word, is almost sixty million acres, plenty other areas as they like. Oh you mean we can just cite the fact that we don't want to have to deal with competition as reason to shut down millions of acres of federal land and make it that it's for us only, you don't think that that's going to be an appealing prospect to people, yeah, yeah

It potentially it potentially completely completely re rights. What if they said prince of wales is for blackmail, the blackmail, dear harvest, It's been around because one time a classic fish, this spot and there's another guy there. It had a bunch of tv cameras with, and you know this is it. This is a perfect example. I mean populations are growing. There are more people on the landscape, more people, you know using all of this space and interacting and social science is a huge problem and we're not equipping our agencies with social scientists like we should, where you know we're expecting these biologists who are used to managing animals right. That's the job as managing animal populations, they're now in the throes of managing people and the people, interaction with the people and then

interaction with the animals and and they need they need more tools in their chest. Managing lists will be in your in your opinion. What will be one of those tools? Literally, some more social scientists working with the agencies actually dealing with people interactions, so the biologists can work on the animals and it's about people, interaction. You see things like that in Montana. All the time you see you know the madison going crazy use the controversy over there you just eat the stuff is happening. It's increasing, increasing as more people are outside, enjoying everything that we enjoy deal I explain your job little bit my job as director of innovative alliance channel dunno, I dunno what that means. Yeah, so,

well. I have created and building out a business development and fundraising arm for backcountry hunters and anglers and so yeah. Basically, I like to call our team, the energy development team, so we're out finding resources to support all of our members work on the ground. What does that? Look like money, fundraising, fundraising and partnerships working with but you ve been out ba jays board for long time, be a j volunteering and board member positions, state level am I in no way have out of sight of a super fun career path in life that has led me amazing directions. I started working with ba J as a volunteer when I worked for a firearms manufacturer. Actually, you know kimber manufacturing and you know sold guns, and you know it started displaying it rendezvous back you back. Like eight nine years ago, google your up booth, go and set up an and talk about guns, and that's how I got to know

be a j? I just- in that action was started interacting with the members of the hiv and was just like so awe, struck by the amazing people who are out there really caring about loving public lands and wildlife and hunting and angling heritage. And so we started to get more involved with the organization than you know, through volunteering and everything became a board member on the national board and then I ended my work. I was tapped as I was working for them gun manufacturer kind of living, a pretty awesome life, just roaming, the world, hunting in shooting that's kind of what my job was known currently argue without annoy you guys, don't know what that's like, but now I am not at all The governor of Montana came in to me on the shoulder and said: hey I heard you may be good at creating this thing called off smart regulation, and I said No, that is but sounds amazing. Maybe I would be no problem. No prob, let's figure this out, I'm so Montana was afford. date crane offs about the recreation I started

for the governor in two months, in late two dozen seventeen who the other three the very first was utah, followed very quickly by colorado and washington, so Montana became number four quickly followed by why oh meaning than there were eight of us, they ate of us formed with called the compliments accords, and now there are sixteen states to do more to the office like what is the sort of purpose of the offices of older recreation, yet purvis office, about a recreation. I think it is the culmination of something that we have all known for a very long time and we ve seen for a very long time as economy, is growing change in states. So you know back at the turn of the century. States like Montana or other states did they discovered, like. Oh agriculture, is a really important part of our economy like this is a big contributor or livestock right lake ranching forming linked. It is really important parts of our economy, and so they would

like department of agriculture is instead, and so can I offer is dedicated to erect protecting guarding yeah making sure so the offs about deregulation in montana, housing, the governors office on their all they're, all very similar, but different and in some ways. But it's really formerly identifying that outdoor recreation is a very significant part of state and federal the federal economy in so why don't? We have, and it has tentacles and fingers and like every thing, and so why don't? We have one person, that's there. job to look through everything through that lends about a recreation and identify what is helping this economy. What is hindering this economy? What are the unique facets of this economy that we need to look at in a different way? So really a minute. This is conversation and work. That's me now been going on for years and years, but it just slowly manifested itself into this so yeah. It's very interesting, three positive, it's great and india. Then the winds of change,

so, you came in under a governor. He turned out yeah yeah me up. I worked for governor bullock. He was a term governor he's. In general, the office will the office continue to run under different leadership. Its m still remains to be seen: it's a permanent office, it's been created and it's up to the new governor. If they want to appoint somebody of the staff that dog they haven't, stopped it and they haven't stopped quite a few things. Is there an argument or is there an argument for that? Is it plausible that they were We like that that didn't need to happen and now to go away or anything's possible for sure, but you're not involved in that conversation now not involved in and all, but you know it's. It would be unfortunate. You know from Montana you know, a very significant portion of our state's economy is linked to the recreation. We have these amazing numbers in two thousand and sixteen the rec act was passed and that was actually

If the federal government like identifying that lake wow the recreation economy is like really huge like how big is it, and so they pass the rec act and that basically mandated the bureau of economic analysis analysis to establish a sub count like a prototype sub account and really you know identifying. You know what it's. Outdoor recreation contributes economy because, like you- and I think we all set in this room and were lake my god, outdoor recreation is what we do with our way of life, it it makes us feel good, it makes us feel alive were healthy, were happy. We we'll make our living around this, like, I was a fishing guide for awhile. I was in the ski industry for awhile. I was in the gun industry like that's how I have made my livelihood, is to record a progression, so clearly it has a second.

Impact. So actually there are three. I believe, economic firms that worked on him. One is here in bozeman, it's called headwaters economics. They consulted with b e a they created, the very first economic numbers in the us related to our gdp, as it relates to recreation. Their first numbers were a bit blears two point: two percent of the us gdp is contributed to outdoor recreation and that's everything, that's the spectrum, that's the that's! The barefoot trail three walk in sleep and under the stars and going out in killing stuff right, that's the whole rainbow, but man, I've seen some to the that heavy the capture, these huge numbers and you look in their counting like forty foot when a bag owes absolutely that's part of this.

Its motorized, its non motorized is of a wide and what I am a superbly our doors for some people say that, like it catches a lot of stuff, it does it catches a lot of stuff and so to put into perspective two point: two percent: that's twice the size of the: u s: automotive industry at twice the size of the? U s pharmaceutical industry. So it's a huge! You know portion of our economy. The part that I think is really interesting is, and I wanna watch this one. The numbers are not quite right that a believe there's lake he's like seventy two like. If you look at gdp, there's like seventy two categories of like basement gdp, and when somebody establishes a sub account, they actually say: okay, like what parts of this has contributed, but outdoor recreation touches like some ungodly number lake is like sixty eight of seventy two

like basic. U s in our gdp functions, so recreation like has its its fingers and everything general rubio secretary of recreation, in the? U s! So here's that, but here's the funny part is like that. I've up now work for some really remarkable people in DC, and you know what the park service in the alarm in the forest harrison just so many great people. There was a period of time where we actually had an office about a recreation, federally firm, the period of time, and I wonder who I dont know we gotta go look at it led. I remember he was. Is a girl in the day we had this, and I was like what I didn't know about that and so yeah it's it's a it's really interesting. It's it's great. Where were you born? I was born away Montana, so that was your tighter is ever Kimber is based. at the sales officers, part of it in palestine. Yeah I saw a month

in a girl, and I have been told, I am embedded like a tick and I guess I'm gonna own it. I just am owning it. My entire adult career have traveled the world and every time I come back to white fish, I'm like Anna live in the best spot. You know so yeah I've. Actually, my parents were born there. My grandparents were born there born there and finally held stay there and raise my boys there. It's a great place to becoming words. You have five two boys. There are twelve and fourteen do When you were little, did you did you have I like? Did you like think about and identify that there is an outdoor industry in in which you would work, or was it just that? That's what life wasn't it didn't seem like a it didn't seem like a thing you would move into. He just went into it, so I don't know we're gonna be classified like that, but yeah

We actually apparent because I got my dad- was a hunting and fishing guide and a knife maker, and so literally I spent my summer breaks as about ornaments on his on a white. What a raft going down the middle fork of the flat had right leg thou is. He took me to work with him? I would go on fishing trips with him. I would do seventy packing trips with em, like that's how I spent my summers and My dad was in the wreck business right like he was a guide and- and he knew all of this- and something that I look back on and you know, but because I was exposed to so many people coming to experience. What I lived like it was my every day and like there are people that are saving years and they're coming and happening variants like a once in a lifetime experience, its literally changing their being its changing their thought patterns, and I didn't have the context to put that in, but I watched it right. I would watch this. people just like lose their minds and just you know, see everything and like the but the water like. I can see the bottom and like how

It is so deep. You know my dad would crack wise jokes, like they're, like how deep the water be like chest high to a duck. You know, like a lunatic, will guide your thing, but I didn't know the thing is that I understood is that I didn't know where they came from and I didn't know what they're like life was like, but clearly I haven't way better than they do yeah, because they were dying over what I just called my everyday life and obviously, as I grew older, like a definitely be you know, I started to put that into context and I started working in fly shops before I was old enough

to pull a paycheck in exchange for fly tying material and fly rods. I was a my sport that I did. I was a competitive rifle shooter and, like I didn't areas like you're tall you're, a big girl, you must be a basketball player and, like I can dribble a ball to save my life, but it has. The has. The trigger is a totally different story and so as a competitive, rifle shooter- and you know it thought about leaving you know- to go to school- wasn't interested want to stay montana university montana. Resource conservation is my degree. I chalked it up to being an over educated fly. Fishermen because they were like okay, so to get a job, you gotta go to Oklahoma or nebraska and like work on mud puddles, and I was like uh not sign up for this, I'm staying in montana, and so I went into the organic produce industry like randomly because I could stay there, so it was actually lake brokering produce from field to table on the national market. At the age of like twenty two and then I got a knock on the door and they were like who we heard you so stuff and you're from whitefish, and you can ski we've got a ski in ski out office. You could be original sky. You know ski salesperson for big mountains

short hose leak. You wanna pay me more money to have a ski in ski out office and I'm gonna travel, the us partying, golfing, skiing and drinking and convincing people to come ski and totally do that guy. I totally golf yeah does not look like rule. He doesn't look, I got, but I'll call for the latter. Guys look like so. The gulf is in this room. He had an idea that treaty or to let you go any more If you show to drink and golf while nurse yeah there well that tattoo out on the golf course. I spent my like a spent. My twenties, like just like in the ski industry and just like having a great life, was married and had kids and decided I'd stay at home stayed at home and work part time and then was like okay, I'm going to go back into like the work. You know work

like what do I want to do when I grow up, and I was at a rocky mountain Elk foundation banquet and I was with my cousins and I was pretty drunk and I turned around. I saw my buddies that worked for Kimber. I was like oh kimber. I got a kimber, they sold guns like I love gas. I could sell guns, so I just inquired and ended up getting hired on and worked for kimber for eight years and now here I am one: is your dazzle guy? Does he still alive? He is alive. He is not guiding key he's. A knife makers to my great grandfather started a knife making business called track, knives that turned into schmidt knives and so my dad actually has always been a knife maker, but then would just guide on the side stopped doing that he actually was in blacksmithing is an amazing blacksmithing work, but he no longer gets his. He is your old man and, unlike of your marriage, your grandfather and stuff, are they simple

adding to the cause of the age aid where they have been like brick, reflexively Love. Better luck, my dad loves ba J loves, it loves it he's. You know, he's even I've helped him right. Op eds in support of like wild cynic rivers My grandfather actually was super tight with my grandfather. He and I he was my best fishing buddy and I'm so thankful to have had all those years fishing with him, but he, I know it's it's very, like they're, they're, very lake, their beaches, people for sure they'd have invaded arm from your told me they didn't, but even like dating back, far they didn't have sort of a reflexive like not really liking. Strong public lands, advocacy or restrictions on

glands, that might be like hinder industry. Well so, and- and I come from so I come from extractive industries, my grandfather was in the timber industry for sixty years, and so q was involved, and you know like la I mean like seriously like the logging of the sixties and the seventies and the eighties and in whitefish whitefish was a timber town. The original name of whitefish was stumptown because it was clear cut and the railroads came in and so whitefish is this, like literally this quintessential snapshot of the evolution of the west and the economy and how things are shifting and whitefish.

We kind of, I think, was like a little bit of head. You know like one of the first towns to go through that, but literally my my the generations of my family, like paint that picture my grandfather was in banking and mining rate, that the other grandfather and- and so what happened, though, is that obviously, in the eighties I mean like timber harvests and everything like you know it was. There were yellow signs everywhere. That was like this. This family is supported by the timber industry right like when the timber industry was crashing. It was putting so many people out of work continue to put people out of work through the two thousands rate, like all the mills were shutting down, but what was happening is like at the same time that, like the timber industry and everything started to go down whitefish. Is this amazing little community with this lake, that's really fun to like boat on, and then there is a bunch of people in town that thought this. Like big, bald mountain up on top, you know, out of town, would be kind of fun like go downhill on in those sky.

Things like in a back in the day, like my other grandfather was one of the first people to pioneer big mountain ski resort, which you know it's at so you you saw this like gradual increase of like this recreation opportunity as the timber industry dove and that cross over period is. It was in my life and it was a really hard time and now you, you do see that recreation in a resorts kind of community growing and of moving into than it means becomes amenity based and then it becomes and starts pulling in order. So are you draw your family be like? I am somewhat like this like Larry MC mercury. Novel about, though, is like lonesome. Of man- ok, I was thinking like last picture, show mike river and all Friends are going to be on news, okay, on

is it all, my friends are gonna be strangers anyways, he writes about the transformation of the american west. So if you capture like generationally, loggers miners and unlike big game guides and then for recreation is like just the evolution so that it flatters the old west of the new estimate when you talked about like okay, so they could do my my grandparents and my grandparent, my father, like do they find like this, like resentful, like nature of like more protection on land

it's like actually that area the flathead river system was one of the first wild and scenic river systems in the country and, as a result like they were the first ones to see it laid out, it had zero impact on anything anyone did it only improved the way of life and improved everybody's. You know just lifestyle and so yeah like so it's a totally different. You know if there is it everytime, you know more protections established like the more the community thrives and the better people are doing and there's you know. The whitefish legacy partners have started the whitefish trail system and the rivers trail system. Is this like an amazing network of trails, multiple use trails that are in and around whitefish, and it was started by residents for residents because they were illegally poaching trails on

it timberlands, and that timberland was gonna, be sold off into development? There was a bunch of lake bikers at relate know. This is crap like you can't do. That was like yeah. Actually we can, and so now we have. This amazing trail system that contributes It's point: three million dollars the whitefish economy every year, just by his existence and and so yeah. It's it's been a a very pro active community, very aggressively, proactive community with surrounding land managers and just involving what it is to live there as a huge deal for montana Martinez way behind the ball in funding recreation, and then we can go off on tangents talking about who really funds, recreation who funds our infrastructure and so

montana we ve been very behind. We don't have any state funding mechanisms of significance to fund trail maintenance and expand on this kind of stuffed, whereas states like colorado, it's called: go co, they'll its loot, really like isn't like like one and of one percent of lottery dollars in colorado, equals four hundred million dollars a year to go towards recreation in conservation, and so we have not in it there is. There is a big there's, a big paper that was done, I think, and like two thousand sixteen, and it was statewide funny mc funding mechanisms for outdoor recreation and that the array of different ways that states will fund it in Montana literally had virtually no a no funding. So if you come up with a my god. This is a brand new tax. You know resource like how often do something new come along the? U contacts right, so you ve got this new tax and that's why everybody's like we want a right, and it is a great opportunity, though, for us too, you know, figure out a way to start investing in our recreation infrastructure,

no one, you say when you say outdoor recreation, I gather the EU picture big umbrella, there's a very big umbrella. United about, like you think about our recreation beyond putting an angry, I guess. But now you were initially situation, there be a J. You got a kind of refocus right in what our, like b a j, isn't beholden to the ski community know exactly I. I do appreciate the fact that I come with such a broad background and understanding, and I also am definitely on the scene. When I was an officer of outdoor rec director I was, I was kind of the hunting and angling girl like I was that representative. I was that voice in all of us because you know quite honestly when I first came in and there were eight directors and then more and we were having conferences and we will be having discussions. I'm sorry. Hunting in angling is not well represented in the broader conversation about immigration, and that was a really really concerning to me. So, that's why I made sure to really trying to elevate that comes

station three, when people would say from and it like from an industry or governmental perspective or outdoor rec, they were biking, skiing, correct, like arya, I stuff correct, not horses were, and so that's why it's constantly bringing it back around and you know like I've heard you say non consumptive or consumptive, which is just the most. I am. I hate. Eight hate hate that had just by provided by your hiker burgers got your hundred fishers eggs. Well, yes, cleaner. We have differing things, but the notion to me that that, wouldn't still in someone who likes to hike the notion that they don't consume, they don't have an image act, airily, dangerous, that's dangerous! Can you write that down a little bit? Radio shows you bogart swayed consulted, so traditionally it's like power of none can sometimes consumptive users and hunters and anglers. Are

lumped in this consumptive mushroom pickers. No one ever talks about the machine pick. They are conservative right there, there's there they're, supposedly killing or taking a piece of the resource with them, while they're out there and have your raw coned spencer. You're could someone, please not assuming those rocky it if you really are detained, or this notion that someone is taking from and or having a greater impact, do that's what is meant to be so well, that's Scott, you consumptive absolutely link years earlier source. I always thought there was like a little negative thing, thereby confirming what it was and then there's by leading supposedly than non consumptive is someone who is just simply out leaving no trace working on it trail for all. You know yeah, like hat like, oh I'm, on the landscape, but I am causing no disruption. I am not having an impact on anything well that is complete and utter horse. Shit and everybody is having an impact of some

whether your motorized non motorized, like you name it. Everybody plays a part, and that is something where I dont like people. I know you'd, never tolerated it. If someone wanted to use those, I said no not allowed to use those words were all having an impact. You just need understanding. What time an impact you have the other week we discuss this this. These guidelines came out, and it was that at what does these someone had done some research on it? What do impact while by saint listen, I just catching up and I was listening at fifty yards on roads, so fifty yards, the shipment selects fourteen hundred yards on you know and that's the thing is like people think that they're not having an impact, and so that's something to like. I, I just feel like the outdoor recreation economy and the people that are in the outdoor recreation economy, like we're talking the reason we're talking about it in an economic sense and the reason we have now a percentage of the gdp, and we understand how many tax dollars are going to this. We understand how many jobs are related. The reason we need to

huh. That is because we need to speak the same language that all the other lawmakers all the other policymakers are listening to you, because every other segment of industry, whether it's you know like mining industry or you name it. They talk about jobs tax dollars like what are we can choose very there are able to do in really concrete terms, but I would imagine, wouldn't like a lot of he's outdoor recreation companies would now I wanna be categorized it that they were like they will want to be kept. Categorizes consumptive sail out the mountain biking, industry or the skiing in well consumptive, but contributing that, I think, is what we're trying to do is we're trying to calculate the country. You should of wrote to the economy because that's what everybody else's beating their chest about. What do I contribute? So it's like. Ok what you mean you get priority, because your touting these numbers will now the outer recreation in ST has these numbers, and so, when you go to a county commissioner, when you go to your state legislature, that's why I put together. As you know, a state

I just you, know a package on what does the outdoor recreation of mina Montana or when you go on a national level. It's like! No, no, oh, you want to talk about jobs. You talk about tax dollars, oh I'll, show you numbers and well sure you bigger numbers in employments, because there are so many people and that's the thing about the recreation economy. Is it's not a levin conglomerates, rights law? that hold all of the pile and there's? No, there There's eleven entities are pulling the strings and calling on the shots. This is, I mean huge numbers of people. Like me, as the numbers of people. Five people working at about twenty seven percent, seven to ten percent of montanans are employed because of outdoor recreation. Like that's a huge percentage, it's probably only going to go up and it's only going there's four hundred fishing guides in Gallatin county. How many mountain biking guides are there or jobs and

mountain bike, aiming there are some that growing. I mean everything plays its part in that's retail, that's you know let yeah that's gear and goods and languages are enough. That's when I look at the big number you know when you see like its ex billion dollar economy. Can you look at it in it's to be, and I'd see things rolled in there that I would feel are almost anathema. You know to what I like like for instance, then I shouldn't say this now cause we now have a amber trailer, dark, satellite or the problem. Man free vote, It is hardly the guy is where it that with kids, a competence is where even ass in the bed, the sleeping bags rennet throw bodies in the truck and marshmallows or s it's like it's just when you You throw all s back inside their drive away in and you spend the whole week digging through organised. I feel bad about along, yet you about it. I'm gonna dog, on big winnebago by I want to clarify the dog. I myself when I lie. But the numbers blot like nationally. I look around

manner, throwin stuff in there that doesn't belong in there. Why are we finished? Because, unlike that, like that is an outdoor rec, that's what that is standing. Kalen him wrong. It's just you you're sliver of outdoor recreation. May I also self assumed a final that little bit slimmer, yeah, it's it's mean its mean spirited, but that was that's. What does on trying to get at the next part of this I looked at my like manner thrown in wild shit into those figures polemic. Why not? Because if you anything you can use the can, bad. The idea, when someone says like the national forest bitches, never do enough. It is nice to be able to say on the contrary, experts, of the economic activity. Heavens no surrounding towns is to thank for that extra zone of the jobs that have no surrounding townsend thankful that real estate prices are tied to that tax base

His angle, like so don't tell me, is doing nothing because we plucked it away and you would impact the lives of like a high percentage of people live in this area like been armed with those any of those issues like it s there as much as I was a little bit suspicious of one sided drawn up because people around some crazy numbers- one, that's the thing we re just like the so they have economy of the west rates we were. We were used to talk looking at national forests as timber producing and that's an easy like you're going in you're caught in a stand of timber, you have board feet, you're doing the calculation. There's the money sitting right there in a tidy pile, getting piled onto a truck, very easy to calculate, and then you can also do the then the extrapolation out into the communities and what kind of a recirculation rate you have, but with recreation, it's different right! It's it's you're, not just loading things on a truck, and it will it's different to comprehend, but the the fourth? U s, d, a forest service like they have. Economists, that that's what they do you can go in and you can actually search and

find out like what is the recreation economic impact for such and such a forest on a community and they'll extrapolate it out in their own way and so yeah yeah and we're way past hunters and anglers being played in here therefore ass lake, but this is where,

countries such as the need to you. So I talk about infrastructure like the infrastructure that supports the outer recreation economy, and so like every segment of the economy has like this unique liquids, unique infrastructure that that defines at our support set right. It's not just the roads that go to the parking lots that go to the trail, heads that go to the trails. It's also open space, it's habitat its aquatic habitat, its terrestrial habitat. Its view sheds, like though that's infrastructure just like a bridge, might be important. Israel sector, like that's the infrastructure right we'll by and large lake who and what has paid for the infrastructure, that the entire recreation economy now sits on its hunters and anglers like that have like built the foundation that that its riding on rain and the care of wildlife, the maintenance of a very well, if that's it, just as this than the subway of like oh my gosh in their so many more users, and how are they? Users helping pay for it and and

there's no silver bullet by any means, but you know, like passing habitat montana. Weed money is like one little piece of the pie to helping support that is getting to be almost a trillion dollar yeah, oh for seven hundred and twenty twenty. They figured seven hundred and eighty eight, but this is for the country, seven hundred and eighty eight billion in economic output, this is the outdoor industry numbers ship, seven or eight billion an economic output to her. What to plague. You said two point: one percent, a: u s: gdp five point: two: in jobs and its domestic that doesn't count the imports of gear right, like this is lake gross out there there get their rolling in canada. Rolling in boating fishing are being hunting, shooting a trap and made list motorcyclists.

traffickers. Fifty around now you're, not that me by anna, not me by a and b seven fifty's, motorcycle in a t v in equestrian sports, hm yeah, it's it's huge, it's big and, and so, but it and that's where, when I was in the office- and you talk about this, a cute umbrella like hunting and angling, is been a very, very, very

in piece to this puzzle and I really want to make sure that it continues to be very relevant and like you're, just a little tiny snapshot right. I talked about like the wafers trail system and whitefish and keep this amazing. You know collaboration between private timberland and state land and federal land and private land like to put this trail system together and the timberland is a block management piece in Montana. In block management. I'm sure you talk about log management all the time, but it's people enroll their land in for access for hunting and and but you know it was very important to maintain like if you had just anybody going in there they'd be like yeah. We have trails

going through there. So there needs to be no more hunting cause. That's what's happening. Right gets, but that's not the case like that. You know everyone made sure that, like no hunting is a traditional use here like we are all sharing the space. We all need to be doing these things together. So we do need to keep hunting in these areas. Let's just make sure we drink a safe way. So you know if, if there's not a voice, that's constantly talking about the heritage of hunting and angling, and I'm it's very concerning when you know- and we offer we often times- are talking in this- like ancillary bubble like hunting and england, like we're king lake in are no man, not even china, as a result of there's a lot of there's a lot of interests out there, and so that's, what's really important to stay in the mexican and understand, like everyone else is perspective and where the coming out from, but do you feel it? That's the case and like for everyone in this room right leg knocked on folks who

You know motorbike in make noise and move your very own. Gary Becker bargain induce you I, like you know, even you knock on Jani, foreseeing, unlike dude. No not thing issue out of doors may be the last one trick pony gonna play on your back away out of doors, but that doesn't mean you're bad. I prefer I work Everyone be on the levers to everyone. The ice fish speed instead, I don't get closer by, don't let them that are not true outdoors. No, but ok. So here here, where I'm going with the question like because so much hunting angling money goes into supporting the outdoors. It seems better in my mind, everyone's like we all do this year, the whole is hard. discussing the idea of

an angler's and other outdoor users. There's a there's, an important distinction here. I think that hunters anglers- developed an elevated sense of importance, perhaps even a supremacy when it comes to discussing sort like their share of the pie. Look, lancer outer recreation or have you wanted, define or die about because they have historically had such an important funding role. Correct so allowed into the lab and middle management, state management of wildlife. Ok, sir land management agencies. Having issues haven't you access wildlife mitigation. These research and outline were funded by people who bought hunting fishing licences, so they felt like naturally,

we need to have a real seat at the table here because we're paying for a lot of this. Here. I am an end other user groups. Don't have that other users don't have that legitimacy. Guy refer to it as an infantile its into the new. I would so new users there's hunting and angling right and like in this, this evolution? And now there's pat, you know like fishing access sites, the stupidest name ever it's a water recreation site in Montana, right, but fishing dollars for him, and now you look at the reality of like how many people use those fishing access sites are actually fishing fewer than the recreation user that never pay to die for him I loved one. Recently, though I came out where I saw, if you held a fishing licence, you didn't need to pay the fee yeah. like where he hit you when you bought so licence threats and that's different states are doing different things. Why what people sure, but those fishing access sites. and their launch and a kayak and not fish. They should be kissing fishermen or they

to be marred by efficient life right, and these are all things that amount proposed. These research funding mechanisms and you need legislative follow through to establish all these mechanisms. That is how it is there is discuss like like explain like what people say when a cause you have the right to get into sobriety is like the backpack tax. I know notice what it means, but what to get net well, that you're that he would create the same kind of funding through an excise tax on camping gear or and campers or like out and buy it, and so you know, then they are contributing in the same way. Hunters and anglers are which in as like am man like they should be paying too, and they probably should, but if they do, then They want to sit at the table. I don't really like to have my way out. Have them not pay and not be at the table while there

the table, and then there is the situation in europe as those option. One hears the thing: are you guys referring to you like paying so wake, though its lessons dollars? It's all of that, but it's also then pierre dj dollars that you know that have so lake. All of that all of this funding explain that real quick I mean it's over mentioned, but when you buy a, if you go, buy a pocket pistol, can you buy a pocket pistol for seven hundred bucks for personal self defense defender What are you can buy your by, like? Oh, you go evil by a personal self, defense compact, nine millimeter, thirteen percent that money funds. Wildlife is ten percent of wholesale, but close, you know and the bullets for it, and I am all for it, but not reloading supplies, not objects. You know like archer, equipments fishing equipment, but tongue

Jesus but anyway, so your voting equipment rather doesn't about gas from her by gas, marina, there's no equivalent of that yeah there's no, equivalent that when he buys a skis for kids that have a back country, touring skis, there's no equivalent tracked and that's- and I was just Nope, like hunters and anglers m, started funding all of this, and we know maybe not the average hundred angler, but No, the thirty, but we started funding this out of crisis. A crisis like we're at the bottom like work like we are losing everything so that now we have this history of fighting to get it back and investing to get it back all these other recreation. You know opportunities. They have never been through crisis. They ve never lost anything there, just getting going, there's no place to school so but a but as but

as a result like. If now it's just like a bunch of like recreation, pissing match rates just like how all this trail is my trail. I don't want you on my trail and you know it's like no you're. It doesn't belong here and just like wow everybody, if you don't back it up to like thirty thousand feet and look at like the real core of like what is enabling us to do all of this, and if we don't work together, you know like on public lands on on a larger scale, will all lose everything, but it goes back to that consumptive versus non consumptive, because their quote not having an impact xyz should they be wishes and why it was very important. When I was in office, there is a twenty year old document that was done by the montana wildlife society twenty years ago and it's the impacts of recreation on rocky mountain wildlife and it hasn't been updated for twenty years, and so you can go and look at it, and so I spent a lot of time when I was in office like this is really important. Like we need to be able to give our land managers the tools and the scientific knowledge so that they can resolve this,

it's and then we can also tell everybody. Like look, no you're having an impact like you're pushing animals around more than one hunter would push animals around because of what you're doing in your actions, and so that's why that was a really really important piece that is, you know, go is the work, is going forward, they're, updating the documents and we're finding funding for it. So it was really important to get that done. It seemed like most of the states he said before. They have an office Iraq were like in the rocky mountains does. Does it make sense for every state to have that, like delaware in Indiana or it's not a rocky mountain thing arrangements were the first. We've got. Oh my god. We've got like three in the midwest: we've got and we've got vermont. Sorry, it's been a long time since I rarely thought I forgot Vermont north carolina like it's kind of

Furthermore, it will make sense, really ever said, o absolutely so, but its office about a recreation re there. It's the outdoor recreation economy, which is really like to see and understand than the last adoration of the national report that came out for duty, be it it had these great infographic, because you have experiential expenditures around out a recreation, and then you have the manufacturing expenditures around outdoor creation, and so you see estates lake florida in illinois worth can ever camp on the planet's manufacturer, hangs in only. But you see these like hot red states that are making all this money off of manufacturing the stuff. And then you got these hot red states that are making all this money off of people using that stuff and experiencing the outdoors, and so you have you have to know wake. None of these states like these guys wouldn't be making money and manufacture.

if they Didn'T- have a place to go and if we didn't have the place to go that you know like it's. This symbiotic relationship between the differing you know, demographic of united states, and they are different economies within states. Yet it down into reserve, interesting stuff makes you think that it means that we need a secretary of Hey. It's it's young, we could see as a first secretary, a hot and efficient secretary of outdoor secretary of hunting and fishing, then I actually actually did find a history of that federal bureau of outdoor recreation, which was founded in nineteen sixty three by a secretarial order. subsumed into a new agency called the heritage, conservation and recreation service in eighteen? Seventy seven, which was then subsumed by the national there. You arrogant scenarios

used to have one now. We don't tell me here to last questions there, big ones or what so you're you now. Currently, you like fund raising fer a nonprofit backcountry, hunters and anglers act. What do you guys? Let's see you had all this money, get all this money. What are the top priorities that you'd like to spend? It on so the heritage of hunting and angling and, and then it's it's. The voice of wild public land, water and wildlife, and spending the money and that's the cool part bh a back in our hunters and anglers and by the way we're having our tenth rendezvous this year, and you were the speaker at the first first rendezvous at the same space, we're having it this year, capitals that both three peat

we're having a hundred hundred people gap superstar, but that the so this is what I have always found that is remarkable about back under hunters and anglers backing two hundred in english is about its members week. It is its members. This is people. Is our hunters and anglers that give enough of a crap to be involved to be active to support what they love and believe and right and so be age as an organisation, we are simply finding new resources to elevate their work to help them do their work to provide support, because for as much as we are definitely used to unite curacy peas, awesome organization in it.

organization of organizations? And it's you know taking the collective voice, you know of of organisations and talking on the national level and future does work on the national level. But you you need that you need organizations to have these formalised conversations with like policymakers, and you know involved with legislative actions. But what really moves the mark is individual voice, and you know that is what future members do. It's an individual voiced its that I am an individual and I believe in this and all of these people believe in this too, and so it's this amazing awesome. Symbiotic relationship like these are. These are the people on the ground getting the work done like if you ever think that you're a bad ass hunter angler

Just go visit with the average bh a member and you're just like I need to up my game, you know it's just and but the humblest most amazing. You know, group of people and diverse, I mean like our demographic, is remarkable. There's you know it's a third democrat, a third republican, a third independent. Seventy per cent of membership is forty five and under, and so it's you know it's people that are not it it's. So much of conservation work is done in the tangible, like. Let's go and put this fence up, because I can act and I can do it and I can see it and I I saw the process start and I sought finish and so much work. That b ha members do is the hard long, grueling, thankless schlage, of working on forest plans of working in legislative sessions and so much of the work. That's done it. It's not tangible instantaneously,

it's this, it's a long haul and it's it's the really hard work that requires patience and perseverance. So I couldn't be happier to be where I am and I'm at every career move I've made through my life. It moves me one step closer to expelling every ounce of my energy only working on the stuff that I really really give a shit about, and that's my family and my life and you know public lands in these spaces at a sculpted, my life. So the more I can do to support the ha members in the work that they do. The happier I am The last one touches on sunday is brought up, which is your family. Four years ago I saw you, give a talk and you were kind of catalan out the yet a slideshow pay, and tat s where we were weary of my story and we were storytellers is really far out in your lan yonder storyteller this year, how hard it is just like mess.

In an inconvenient, raise kidney outdoors. Just pull your hair out right. life become yeah. So what do I know is really important to you that you do that the erasure boys out the outside attract? What do you think they'll get out of? It because the other day we had on we had on a specific woman can benefit me, a lot and what we kind of like laying out like how much your dad, how much time her dad dedicated to bringing her spear fishing and she kind of like dispelled any romantic notions. It was that he was and then he had to watch me. Therefore, I had to go I don't think, there's anything else going on there, yeah, alright it landed or where she is, but just like a different version, where I kind of split, I guess like I'm going, which means you're going yet, but also I really want you to go. I'm in

what does you know for sure talked about a little bit like what you want them to get out of it or why it's important to you, yeah actually listen to that one of gimme and when she was talking about her relationship with your dad in her bring with their data, was oh, my gosh really identified with like every things, sad? I remember my dad. Number waking up in the middle of rainstorms sleeping on the top of gear piles in the back of rafts from overnight trap trip, and my dad is lining the boat through a precarious rapid, I'm asleep on the boat and he's like you're good. I just go back to sleep upright, and I've got one of those like horse collar. You know life jackets on and you know it was like that was this job and I just got to go to with him and

with my kids and I'm very, very upfront with them, because now I have a fourteen year old and teenagers are the worst, but I love them in the same notion, but he's very much flexing his independent muscles and he has had the most idyllic childhood growing up in just the most amazing wild places, doing remarkable things and he's just like nah, it's just my jam. I'm just mean. If I have my pick, I'm just not really, and I just want to go, hunt wanna go fish. I don't wanna go camp like I want to do that, and only into that- and I tell him over and over again I really like you, but I have It's gone the other way, so with that guy, I just tell him. I was like look, you are going to have to go. Do some of the stuff with me, but I am going to compromise with you. But what's really important to me is that if some day you decide that it's something you want to do you have a skillset to fall back on.

If you can- and I told him, I'm like someday you're going to meet the superhot chick and she is going to think that lake hunters are super cool and you're, probably gonna start hunting again, you know it's like I want you. I want to know that you have the skills you can hunt. If you want, you can fish. If you want, you can ski. If you want, if it's not something, that's your top priority. Okay, that's fine, but then my twelve year old is just like this. Just rabid outdoor kid like he, he loves. Passionate about skiing is passionate about mountain biking, but he loves hunting. He loves to go out fishing. He you know he he is getting his life membership from bh, a as a gift for me and his piss. that there's not a fly rod incentive, so I had to buy him his own. He goes on Winston smith a couple weeks ago. It used to be a fly rod, I know, but that's not one of the perks yeah exactly, and so he was just like what I wanted to fly around on my kind and good for you soon enough anyway. So

but yeah. He, on the other hand, is like he's already been like so when he was like eight he's like so I'm going to go to college in bozeman, because I can go for snow science and I can be a fishing guide in the summer and then I can be ski patrol in the winter or, like my kid for hatch, figured out like you and I, but I was like I like, where your head's at a liquor headset. So yeah, it's it's! So it it. It's just a compromise and yeah. It's you know when I was during that presentation. It was like going from a person outdoor in the outdoors to apparent in the outdoors. It's like this complete rearrangement of priorities in your head, and it's like I used to you, know, go so hard over here and so fix that and so focused, and now it's lake more about the snacks and we know like it. Just it just becomes different, but it comes full circle to when you were little. Did you find that it was just so hard to get everybody out the door? Yeah

so much preparation, mittens like so much preparation like your lake, like the bags of the gear and the getting in the like. What did I forget and It's so much more work and you understand why some people, if they're not really dedicated to it, is just that less let it go by the wayside within her visually too much work gap, brutes we're just yet you you had a jacket, I'd really like ours, you. How do we talk exactly so yeah? It's it's pretty wild, but it's it's totally worth that. I think it's worth every every minute of its it's fun. You know like lags unwanted, kirsty, turtles, insects, exact in reality to be like, Zita last summer, now I've calculator I make heads we did the main salmon river and I to home, and so a you know, my kids, that they'd seen white water and they had never seen idaho, atwater and so

I wrote them down the main salmon, even the one that, even though that doesn't want to go and the one that you will really want to go, but I'm to go and then he know you get him out there and he's just like this is a sick trip. Now he you know he just he loved Yosef was that was it that the beaches are amazing, you know so and and all it all works out, yeah fourteen and twelve fourteen and twelve hundred yeah. I see I still have where everybody likes me, and I know that that's going to go away. Is it yes, yeah it does, and then I think what did we have? When did we all start liking her parents? Again? It's what I didn't like my parents but died before that happened. It was like three years, a post mortem for me, he died, years later, like that kind of duty is getting at yeah, but you know,

and I look at it like my grandfather. He used to take me out fishing all the time too, and you know like we would. You know, like I remember like driving like two and a half hours to like a fishing spot and then like we get all of our stuff out and get the flow tubes out, and I just looked at him. I was like it was like twelve was like I forgot my flippers, and he was just like okay. Well pack, it all out period home. You know just just the way it goes. It all comes full circle. It's upsetting yeah and bananas like magical moments, cars or motherboard has caught his first like. Where did the cast the hook up the reel in no assistance- and he was just ecstatic amazing- that's a big moment Tom say come to papa. His laugh is the best man when he gets going like my

When my one win this winter was, I love to ice fish, love, ice fishing, and I think it's like the best kid thing to some drag the fourteen year old, a fourteen year old out ice fishing, and it's just like. I can't believe something like what we're doing in the afternoon around for the afternoon bite. It's all gonna be good. I set up like whole camp chef set up, I'm like cooking tacos and I'm just running and like literally it's hot perch and like one boy is like pulling it. I'm like do in a triangle like fish off, you know mag it on down the whole fish off megan on down the whole flip. A taco run back over him just like doing this like circle in the hot chocolate, like. I'm doing my own thing and I hear my fourteen year old, look at his his twelve year old brother was like dude. This is really fun. It's like I win. Like I won this winter. I won. I won that's great yeah, it's good mom, I'm working on it! Train train hard. Well, hopefully, someday you'll be on your deathbed. They were like yo MA legs. You know, yeah

Thank you, my when you told me that she could really begin to fly fishing skills. You right. She rachel smith, beg you very much for joining us. doesn't do that thing where I tell you what how to pay for people? How to find you check out the ha. Let we talk about it, a lot everybody's pretty involved, and it's a good group of people and you learn a lot of stuff and. And but yeah. If you want to find me personally and instagram, it's montana re re m. T R, a e r e or a she meant Anna re re montana, re re m, t, r, H, E r. A e o latest picture is a giant black drum. I just in louisiana very pumped about that. So you know which one are you active on their deepest of up on their lot, yeah, not as much as some live, but no no would have eaten brody worse

more pocket meat for your packet of jaw yeah. I rachel hey thanks for joining the sandbanks to bring down all that stuff, betcha very helpful terabytes. The next. the the.