The you show was severely wounded and, in my case, unaware of the meat eater podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first light created, proven versatile hunting apparel from marino base layers to technical outer. Where for every hunt burst like go far. stay longer are about it. We got a great episode. Forty today rejoined right now by Jani, more already cow south, jester, F, minor, certainly good, An especial gas john Miller not replace it

a titillate local appeared to be total aid. I used twice in one sense too late too late and click to get titillated titillate a bill. We came down this path right here I saw two cops sock is wrong. cross starts over the three rene in the bears back on top he shoots of pistol round. Ten mil comes to me. It starts making his way after about six rounds. It does that was the voice of our It's John Millard, engineer who's interesting for two reasons: one he was involved in a this is just this hunting season right. There was no saved a friend. whose get mall by bear on an wyoming.

And he's always knew interesting, your friends of my friend from grown up mammal art yeah. It's weird coincidence. He. He bore his private he's in a weird spot when he gets ass. What he does why that, because he talk about the brother while he's not here, if you are engineering apart and you need to know how it's gonna hold up over a thousand of ours of use and abuse he makes equipment, didn't mimics abuse like automotive aerospace makes equipment that mimics the abuse, so you can put. Partner room turn the abuser machine on advice, braided at certain frequencies and then watch what will happen, then that's actually how we know each other. We work in the same industry. Vibration technologies

were my company's a little more general, but yes, whose company is better, of course mine. Now do yourself a lot of it. You know I'll always like map. I heard a lot grown up and in our later life you look back on dudes from growing up and you sort of have realizations about them that you didn't at the time you thought like a nice guy, I'm telling you. I can't say this about myself. I can't say that most people, if I review, I don't think that that man ever uttered a negative word. About anybody and to say that come out of junior high in high school, that's impressive. Just honourable guy certainly needs one it's right. He is charlotte, ma'am lard. If you want to find out what some of your shit is going to do, and it vibrates real bad comment, he'll build a machine for you. Do you want to say what company you work for

blog? It gets your drive. Why not? What does? Did you go same school that went to Did not so study engineering? I start in south gotta stay outta, my undergrad, and then I got my. are you a degree in university minnesota, but the company our forests do is oft soft, so we make test equipment for all sorts. Are indeed specifically in the automotive, aerospace and defence power and energy type markets, Did you when you went to graduate school to get a master's degree or phd? I got a master's degree. Usually if you get the phd you kind of end up there for I'm gonna, be calling doktor miller gave orders Add to this a real, interesting haunting story. I got a copy of the cover off at once, gestured and obsessed out here. No, but I was gonna do son. I wanna, like all calm, cause you're. What call set up that is available.

Yeah he's available. Should I throw him on speakerphone? That's why I tell him something: alright. This is about cess of coming wedding. Seth. Ah, can you hear me the state. You know how I gotta become. I need to become a minister to do your wedding. We know on that. It's really easy. I came as the name the church, but it's like the us gotta. Seattle become ordained, takes about three seconds. Region amounting in montana You can actually get. Because you know you just have this problem. We can't do the wall. I tournament what we can do that one. Would you can't go on you hand? montana is one of two states where you can have a proxy stand. For you at your wedding.

yeah, I'm serious. What in Montana, you can have a proxy and in for you I can do they were just or can fish I can like. Oh, create an stand proxy wow. What did you say? can be their cause. It's like calcium products zone in my region would be bounced back and forth a whole bunch. You just lemme know where to put my hands yeah I'll. Do the rest, hey steve. Why did you tell me that's like three weeks black she got married. It is here my family says: oh you got married Montana three weeks ago. It could have done it by proxy. Do that Where are your mother? Your goodwill efficient, so sad you're back on or not. This is just a shower, because I know that as we try to court a boat or boats bonds, for you guys a lot of both sponsors I be again will not vision alternatives, because what he's gotta go to that wedding now, I think,

Both farmers are going to be put right up, no one that you in fact will be able to hear all tournaments. Perfect circles will have no problem yeah ask her about whose she wants to proxy. For you I'll. Do it locales that he'll do whatever he figured out? Gas does work guys what no standard profit brahms outlets, perker superb, when it comes to get employment here, so good, large rest Is he now on the wall? I tournament openings in shape ass. You guys. I really push no problem. My pleasure later, sap Oh yes, I think so. Our seas and ten netflix, which law and two jokes February second part to bunch more episodes coming up february. Second the spear persia in me,

Well, spear phishing, Kimi Werner, though that was all my favorites man. That aim was very turned out to be very good episode. Go on, go on in hawaii, shooting bows at goats, pharaoh, goats looks like a gold. You'd find your farm boy not, but there that is running around where they too are they talk to kill. What else is in nurse her on it's just that there just so many of them any individual one is, but one like any in vice like I'll. Go, get that one out there. You might find that to be extraordinarily difficult, but like once you bought that one does turns to the right here comes another three hundred unama, just like it just I merely wary at all today, they smelly individual one seems to be slightly varying degrees of wariness. There's just so many right

and they're not all doing the same thing and they're not hip to your effective range. Certainly they have great eyesight. They can see you but They also are aware of how close other dangerous things get to them and I believe the dangerous thing out. There is a vehicle go and sixty miles an hour in it one of these. Like you imagine a herd out there, sort of operating on the same information meaning like if you into an area You going to an area like below, spoke them, but g bazaar of like a package house is not like the ones over fifty yards away. The pragmatic go leave too, but they're not on that programme, and some might be like grazing north but their sort of passing a group disgracing south it just doesn't it just it's been

are so many of them. I think We and others I think now and then didn't die in the past cow. Do a thing and draw up a bunch of them into the ocean. This sound, the horrible and despicable, but You were to get an idea of how many you quickly see. how many goats there are out there and how if somebody were to say like do you think these could out eat The cattle on the ground, then you're the wheels would start. Turning as to why that's a issue and- I've heard this from a number of different sources citing in summer It has to be true where a means of of culling would be to get a bunch folks together and do a big put goat jump, my god, and get him down to the cliffs above the sea and try to push the goats into the sea. I got a point I'll do

that there's a lot of people pound and allow on public ground in hawaii and his bride, not the case, but we on private ranch where they want to get rid of goats was not like. You can pull over and start you'll go on there. It there. Real. It's because I asked me about this. Bunch gets down on that. Their captain cook site that state park there. They had to call I'm goats and add a lottery for people to just come pick up a go to take on too dead gothenburg, homer alive, go ad lib we're dead, I believe, and I like Is anybody going to participate in this and she's like yeah but he's about, like the easiest goat me But, for some reason it's If somebody you gonna, go ahead out into the the tall jungle grass with their archery equipment

They don't want to go after a goat. They want to go after a sheep or gouge an access to your boot. You know wherever they are depending on farm animals, but pretty much I've, exceptionally dangerous places in hawaii and I've, my very good the railways, and why were their hunting luke out? You can hunt pharaoh cattle elphick free, yeah there is so many of them, while you guys were out hunting, I was just seeing how close I could sneak up to him just for fancies yeah, so Netflix february, two, Oh grinned pointed out too also groundhog do that day, but there the national holiday meter season ten parts you day there to make a bill. Mary movie called that here's another thing man struck me like a dime. bullet. Ah next year's counter and will end

and we sold a mountain of fucked up old trees, dance counters picture, this fucked up old taxidermy, as part two lotta material there where he got the website. You got the email address set up, so here's what here's, what we're not doing, much currents chagrin. Chrome is into, and it's like, adjust colonel, end of the type of taxidermy where people make like, like harry potter, type stuff. Like when I say, if I hear the word tax, that reaches the thing that comes to my mind, which is like getting your box, stuffed your wall, Johan lodge work, the criminal mind is a griffin is like You know panda presents head. I dunno just like where her mind dancers. This is this calendar, maybe what

in the bag. On the back page, we can give a page with a bunch of things to satisfy Korean's needs and she does leave hers open to that page. All your there'll be a bunch of these things. People make like taqman a bunch of things you will make to our animals, but we're looking for legit like pictures of legitimate. Like the worst taxes, on the planet. I have a private museum that I've told you about in idaho that We can go, do a photo from it in that it is like. The aim is to get down to business. Bulwana ride out, don't send in the ones that are already circulating the internet. Now they need to be original, they can't we re ever. It says that one in the idea that some guy added up The worst coyote you seeing the gaps and on instagram was sir, your kyle's ready for pick up You know that there really good, where we're going to be no weak. That's like I desperately where we are worse, mountain landmark, you ve ever seen bad and yet, as the cringe, that's right up coincide

I feel like that's off that christmas movie little kids christmas, so the emails you knows got. Matt Kurt those weasels he's got out his fireplace mantle contenders navy, or you might need to do, though I think like send. What you got in what might happen as if its, if its appropriate, when we our selections we might either. If, if possible, we might end will pay for all this we might box, we What have you like will pay for shipping, but we might have you package your stuff to send asked to photograph or just start making your submissions now, because that's got nothing to do. You can send em to fucked up old taxidermy at me.

peter dot com or of your kid- and you not loud swear yet send it to f. You o t at the media that come so message to my kids. You submit you better submit f, you o t at the meat, eater dot com and not the other versions, and we will start digging through about your work First, all like I'm talkin, grandpas old dear the newspaper prints taken out of his ear bad taxidermy. Account or a large audience blow back. Brody bear speak to this. My pain, as hasn't changed based on the blow back, so upset it brought. It doesn't remember saying I don't because that's how much out, I just don't think it's important, but obviously some people really love their golden retriever. Brought. He said that the damas dogs in the world and in he got oh he

might as well said that he like on, I don't know like beat up mother teresa up exactly anyway, people really. Of their golden retrievers they're not earn and they're, not the dumbest dogs. Ever according to all these people that road into us, he hears a quote here for a mamma, a listener name pat, whose, as an honor and he ends with an invite to go pheasant hunting yeah. I might take them up at the end of that trip. Nebular tasted, his spot, you gotta, be like that dog really is dumb yeah. that really is dumb dog of ever everything. So for the correction he says, my dogs name is tucker he's a four year old golden retriever. He is not only a phenomenal hunting dog. He is also the best family dog I have ever had, which I know family dog. I don't. I don't disagree with that. I got to see the dog hunt first though, and he is with me. Twenty four seven and also enjoys the pod guess he's a day.

Smart lab abide, Have is dumb moments like all animals, but when it comes to work, golden retrievers are not the dumbest animal in the world by the of north Dakota. Just far away, I was trying to find you fat, pat or any other golden retriever, while grids people were like really actually legitimately mad people get worked up about and when you gotta keep in mind when you're an angry golden retriever owner, you have hours and hours of brushing burs out of their hair. Otters home does deal on their stuff is mad. He may we got gate, but here's the thing the guy's got a town like the guy's got points you ve got legitimate point.

This guy is mad about r and we see here's the thing a mere like you know. I have a really funny joke one time a tv executive once said to me, I think, he's the guy from history channel yeah guy History channel once said to me the only other country our audience is interested in is alaska. But Europe's big old place, europe's big place, full of how you countries in europe bunched cabinet. There impact in way. Tighter us, americans, don't know the answer to that, but they pack in countries that we pack in states guys room we all got their own little governments cute little garments, all their free, this and free that some works animal care of their day, so

Where I saw about what goes on in europe as though it's like a place and to our credit, we have mused, we have mused about finding a sort of pan european hunting authority. Would come in and in be like here's the lay of the land, the same way, someone might come into a seminar on the france's in the way the fifty states that the fifteen eu states the dip is and how they manage like different management approaches. Right yet like this, you can actually still you know, said a bare trap and main you know. Venture dear in taxes and like walks through, like here's other all different, but here's either. The same are different reviews about this. Jani is actually go into latvia to do an investigative dig deep Have you hon there were trying to get educated bullies know how one forty fourth of the hunting in Europe

A letter goes like this hasty. You can start making that noise. You used to describe people who hear something on your podcast then write to you to say full of shit. that annoying men- and I think it's not that it's not my mama- is this due to so you'd have to replace the ends with these, because in this case you are full showed he says, in your see this is a here's. The thing is, I got this email long time ago and I just didn't get to it, and it was recent to me so this sentence recent to me yesterday, just like a heads up like a follow up on it's anniversary, it was the anniversary of the original send But all fair stuff, you said in your recent park as covering the flooding in south dakota and the challenges that presents to sort out the legal issues of access. Both

you and Callaghan blurted out righteous indignation at the concept of land owner setting bag limits for fish in the water they own cologne, we're tired About these floods and ignored the code in south Dakota, the leg, before the light goes up and comes back down, but these are floods that stayed so in this old podcast episode made me cringe. Maybe you can find it in. Tell us what was called. That was why we had a guy on the blue was trying to jump out of his lay outline oh yeah, I am blue, of his toes off, and you think you the edges off, we blew the middle toes out dan, their great guy so fast he still shot at the goose daring shooting at the goose. He realized what had happened and didn't know if even hit the goosey, like blue, was out shot at the geese. There was

Oh, I just blew my toes that I think he said his foot felt hot or something and let me laugh at the brother where he was laughing about it, but his foot looks funny I think we put it on your instagram. No was this hunting the anthem pressing? Yes, the improper seen everything as it one. Ninety episode, one. Ninety five so aways be got farmers who what are yet landowners whose land is now under a lake and insults state manage fish swim over your land and it's covered in water and in these are lakes that used to exist, but they've they've taken over farm. So there's that there's this dispute, like? Can a farmer go and what's going to really confuse people's? We also just talked about the same thing, the other day in north Dakota. talk about we talked about a year ago and south dakota, where land owners relate putting out strings of buoys to sort of like hole, portions of the lake that sat over their property as their own thing, and it is a lot of big piss match anyway.

this conversation apparently count blurted out with rightist righteous indignation backed according at the concept of land owner setting bag limits for fish in the water. They own, of course, being totally this call for the writer, the the person. Writing it, of course, being totally clueless. You. boys compared that to the european system. Were landowners set bag limits? He says not, that's not true, and he says it's something you ve done before. I hope this email prevent you from doing it again goes out as they try to give this information to Callaghan really does blew it off I take on you that you're more fact based person who does not blow information off just because it contradicts you're finally held beliefs here, Add some articles with John is gonna, read up on a new book reports down rodya when it gets a minute. He goes on to mention a fellow that that we're off my with no mac receiver, hard, who tragically pathway quite young not too long ago.

But the guy writing, says you know Chris zebra heart. I discuss the problem of ill informed american hunting celebrities with him, and he made some interesting observations. First off it's pretty typical you and every other american to dismiss all of europe as an elitist hunting and fishing club controlled by wealthy landowners wrong on count. One second, that game management, the private affair, with land owners making myriad potentially harmful decisions all across the landscape, wrong continuing to cool? It's all dictate by state biologists and failure to follow their management plan will result in fines and finally, Chris points at the american model is great and its phenomenal at increasing populations harbor it socks at controlling populations. The european model excels at that because

landowners are not allowed to make hunting off limits or restrict the take in hopes of growing trophies. It is easy to manage population that is a problem we are facing in many places in the. U s were private non, hunting land is a haven for overpopulation to quit. Counterpoint. I feel a little bit like the person like this individual is sort of committing the same mistake that were committing where he's generalizing in a way that I'm sure there are probably exceptions. I dont think They all of europe is by mandate open to hunting. I bet you how many countries they got other wherefore. They count half a russia and not shirk their so to shake the other two.

j is that in my life in my adult life, I've really come to rethink what people mean when they say overpopulated wildlife ida kid right in, and this is not good, I had a kid right in the day he's a high schooler and he wanted to interview me for a school project, he's doing and he's doing a thing about how you should be able to hunt bears in his state can't currently, hunt bears and estate. And he's like me. He wants to make a documentary shown that you should be able to hunt bears because they'll become overpopulated and I don't I've never been in a place where I thought there was too many bears like I can't think of ever thinking. There's too many bears out. New jersey might be headed. That way. I dunno, if you can handle that, right yeah, but you also have never been like a farmer in heavy populated bear country

Bears are rating sure it's il yeah. I think that while yeah you're right, I was going to say it's a variable. It's a very subjective thing right, a very subjective thing. When I'm sitting in my deer stand, I seldom thinking. There's too many deer, it's a subject. It's like a farmer probably thinks there's way too many vehicle insurance person probably thinks. There's too many someone in the state, this kid's talking about Pra NE has an orchard or he's a b person that has it was that called an apiary was a beekeeper called? That's that's great. As an atheist, I dunno beekeeper. He brought things just too many bears, but a bear hunter who just drew a bear tagged by nothings to me bears,

it's subjective. I read the articles. This is gone back in to say, even if you don't want to provide your listeners with the truth, you'll be informed enough to make to maybe stop feeding them. A pile of horse shit cut the crap quit being an idiot. Oh, I forgot a little bit part european hunters are no less passionate and committed to conservation. Then are we americans you do them a horrible disservice and insult them when you slander their system without knowing shit about it? That's where I think very fair point.

I do think he makes it all, there's a good point that he makes in there. Also I can read here and quote that in germany, over sixty percent of the population eats wild game because it is available commercially. He asks. What do you do? What do you think that does to encourage the general population to approve of hunting? My personal experience is that in germany the populace looks forward with relish to the availability of wild as they call venison nope, Is that nintendo not into it I'll, never give a shit they'll never give cause. I like to stay open information, but I I know I understand all the arguments. I should be able sell venison in areas where there's like a wide consensus, the deer overpopulated, but I'm not into it. I don't think it's a good idea. Yeah. I don't you think, that's a good idea if it meant that we will get your. sprang in your offerings. Offspring would get to continue hunting in our country. If thou is the only way did mitt target if

it came down to me and said. The only way your children will be able to hunt is if people can sell venice in new jersey. I'd have it'd be a different conversation until that point yeah. That's why I said I'm open to changing my mind. because he might, I always think, a wild mushrooms, just mushroom, sitting there on a hillside, mind with on business, tell somebody put price tag on the up, and then he had said god. Battleground of people being assholes to each other in part, in large pack and guns around all Ordinary Owsley woman went on the murder and, like the burne holiday, including giant piles, a human feces time and- at the morales spot at the morale spots where the commercial guys come in and you like, oh kind of ceased to be a mushroom once there was a price tag on and that's the thing

can't runaway given front other people, it's just great into the ground so got the public lamb, private land thing here. That, like is in an issue there. You know what I mean like market hunting on public land in autumn saying here mrs lake in the irish sea, all arguments against it. I think that it is also a very interesting arguments, and that should make you think that if we don't have sixty percent approval of hunting, Dewey yea, it's much higher in the. U s until you start asking, specifics is high, isn't sixty percent. Seventy eight call people. You can find all these studies online and all these surveys online, but it only works until you get specific. If you call people and say, do you support the regulated, Do you support liker, regulated hunting for food right are not think you gotta put their way. Really. Then you get its higher now than it was in the nineties.

many you say something like do you support? Hunting grizzly bears with traps. Trapping grizzly bears. I gotta do that only the word or throw fee in there, but any like a bit like to give you, is that I do support hunting members with the use of dogs it'll go down like any detail, puts it down, but the general idea of like regulated hunting is acceptable until you put a face to it. If you had a little picture of a little fawn and you're like do you support hotness, right, you'd, probably laura score. Her only one thing you gotta give mine too. It's a big difference between the: u s and in europe is cultural right, so you have in the: u s. We a common language, and we have slight cultural differences, but in Europe I mean it's, it's almost

was like you know, different ends of the world where you have different languages, you have different cultures, you have to her mannerisms and a lot of that goes and plays into you know what the the I guess: hunting yeah like less likely to find some well travelled person who has a good build new wants to understanding of all the different states, game management approaches cause. You can go to a conference in here. All their biologists talking in English. Yeah, and I think that even the like, the enviro environment is quite a bit different. So what you're going to find in like the old slavic region versus the scandinavian region, vs, spain, you know they're very different and just langley wise, whether wise java that lives like this apple, it's not as different as the north slope of the brooks range sure is from the by you country of.

Louisiana here, you're absolutely right and I think the big, but they get out of that is that die this stuff tat. Somebody that's an expert in all those languages as well. To do that, so it may have to get three or four people. Critical figured out got it there's a lot of you will have travelled across europe and hunted allow different places. What are you gonna do you know who I bet would know all the stuff man craig botting turn that dude is haunted. He's probably he's right he's a based on a country's own. You know about never heard of them, be interesting, he's a gun, writer, craig bodies and real, no real nice fella he's military to write, colonel colonel craig botting too.

But then you know it's groom now, but that you notes and smoke it. A badger found a bunch, a roman treasure in spain. You, like tat, said wager as nice, the guy was looking at a badge or borough. You know about this girl, this european oil, Gaza at a bad, your borough, ethnic, some old coins or lay out where you ve been digging around they blame seek they blame without the very severe weather that northern Spain had that, as though this particularly harsh winter cause this to work extra hard and inserted legs in the even smaller cracks, the normal. Next to his den, This hard winter drove him to discover this cash coins, the nice hypothesis. To that it not once someone check it out to hunt nine coins dating back to what between the third and fifth centuries? Eighty

way back when, in my youth, when I was guided, antelope outside a win at montana. There was a badger me a family of barriers that it had inhabited. When at cemetery and he was gone. I mean just had no respect for the folks buried out there at the window, cemeteries ahead. You would you respect where my eye and says was are buried, but not many times over the course of several years. I I witnessed first hand people shooting into the women when it cemetery protect bones the grim yeah and every year bandied see those tombstones and, and there they are get like more and more catawampus as everyone was getting undermined in their seats,

you're carrying around an old flask or something like that carrying around her shoulder blade, one of them, ranch hands on one of the places that we knew it add passed away and you dont. So we were real real familiar with the date of internment. And I got I got to witness the the progression of a badger activity out there off of off of a known date, certainly out. Oh ah, the the this this article about the. This article about the badger find those coins ends with a very interesting superlative. They want to close with a superlative, so it is highly qualified This was the largest trove roman coins found in a cave the north of the country on tuesday,

I wouldn't know what happened in the badger. Our know how big a stash of rolling lines were found in the central portion, wealthy to address other. Not talking about. I do little do your report. We were there not a call to action, but this is a ridiculous. I think this is ridiculous. Oh yeah! So this pass fall. as a lawyer, hunter in colorado, shot in fatally wounded a archery hunter kill ya, Well, I think faintly killed would be redundant. When I was going to say that I start myself, I heard you stop herself. I want you to know that his death, barely dead. I itself has dragged. He got nothin laugh about

anyways that has spurred people talking about how to make the ah coinciding muzzle, loader and arteries in colorado, safer, boldly groups have over the years since they ve started, having diseases which some time in the seventies when they ve had a coinciding ma's water season and in our treaties right, muslims have a little farther range and a rifle they're, both primitive. They both both archery and muslims, are primitive, save both requested to haunt during the right to make the hunt. And so may see the muzzle our hearts get a ninety season. Roughly the third week rate rodeo september and archery seizing goes basely the whole month of September give or take the date

a little bit, but you have a nine day period where, where it overlaps to this point, archie hunters get to go in full camo muzzleloader hunters have to wear just like rifle hunters in colorado, five hundred square inches of daylight orange fluorescent or hat, and a hat five hundred or so slop. Ah so, be I since that year, in the nineteen seventies, there's been three instances where hunters have been were rg, one hundred hundreds been shot by muzzleloader hunters. Two of them were fatal obs of one a decade, no one more than a decade

would you like one point. Two five: can we get just like a person in here from all the way around? It's like? Oh, we got one yeah yeah math it'd, be like you know, point seven, five point eight! Oh sorry, I meant one point two five decades, oh sure, yeah, yeah and yeah. Maybe we should do a lot of math stuff with this guy. so they're proposing now during that ninety season, the archery hunters, to make it safer that during a day coinciding season. The archie hunters will also be required to wear the five hundred square, it is all their southern throwing down on the full frickin five hundred miles hondo. Yet I read up I read up, and it is a four five hundred but only while muzzle or season is in in and only on publicly do you know how long the muzzle water season is not nine days. Nine is only possible

land only while most the maloney reports over salutary what I would do now. They they have other options they're getting thrown out there. Other alternatives like separating the regular archery muzzleloader seasons and leaving it the same but yeah it's getting to actually vote on t day as we're as we're discussing this What would you do you see if I was the emperor of colorado? I would and I I probably wouldn't get done immediately. I would scrap all this talk of scrap all the orange talk for archery hunters and I would put my best people. I put my best people on bringing are this damn colorado, a beggar you guys the call everybody

all the other states that have elk archery, hans and most loader hans, and I want you to come to me with proposal that separates these hans so that when its archery season, like the archery season, may stays as a archery wrought, hunt and we're gonna make it were like everybody else. we're going to make we're gonna figure out what that like allocation, is and impacts on her dynamics and wintering range, and all that garbage like a very well calculated thing that they were Figure out a have archery during the rot, we're gonna run firearm seasons, then we're gonna run the most loader stuff later and the muslim is gonna, be like on its own late.

Season is not going to be you're just going to kick the muzzle or is right on outta September hey. This is coming from a guy. That's haunted muzzleloader in colorado during archery season. Guy! That's! If I was the emperor of colorado, I would say I want to buy twenty twenty three, the twenty twenty three season. I want this all separated. You would have to be the to get that ship ass, I think I am a hypothetical. Yes, it's only valuable to talk about like like it just figure irritabile what you would do I'm not some like if out there. If I was the emperor that that will be the answer from saint. Like someone came to me with the brown. That's what I would say again, because it's it's it's a ruin formula all round the country. It is based replace riga, mosler guy's, an artery guys guys and where, at the same time, but you ve got your all about traditional use patterns in that's a traditional

You are now well, I'm not taken away. I'm not taken away, you dear taken that run away from Gaza loader. Yes, I am witches traditional in colorado. Ok, but not is twenty five years, I'm not stripping a privilege on finding a way like what? What's your big I mean, I'm just. What's the big qualm with where in some more enduring archery season, I I think I know the answer but like what what you know, what you're rears thing of fishers evolved, the emperor my plan is an amount. Responding should clarify this,

I'm not responding to the orange part. The orange part, I would say, there's an inherent risk of going outside with with weapons and wild animals and stuff and like yes, we've had a couple of fatalities. Over twenty five years, we've had a lot more people die from exposure. It's like it's inherently risky. You have a weapon you're dealing with animals up close people, shoot Elk, and then the Elk stands up and kills them that happened last year. It's like I like. We can't like there is risk involved, in life? We're not going to legislate to regulate, create legislation to prevent a fatality every eight years among a user group? willfully going to engage in an activity. That's the first thing I'll say if I was an emperor and I'd say, but I do think it's goofy separate them, because I just think it's a little bit. Goofy yeah and I've done it and I'll do it again, but I think it's a little goofy

but I was just interested in you know the state aid of all. Firearm seasons require zero orange. It's like if you want to wear it great and when I was hunting in idaho all the time. Ah, I always have like a blaze orange cap with me, and aware it all the time or where it some of the time pass gonna on just bearing on. What's going on you all these stupid pictures of people with when they pack out box, and for whatever reason, the fad now is to put the antler straight up near where you look like a bottom. You know that way. You look like a buck coming through the woods dry, firearm season right. About back through. I don't do that, but ours junk ablaze orange up on top my back during the Circumstances just want to say that the interesting that pertains this conversation is. I was a boy

idaho, must not have a lot of hunting fatalities because it rarely comes up that they need to start required. Blaze orange for hunting seasons, but certainly in comparison to the colorado statistics that honest rattled. I do on par with hunting related shootings and fatal shooting are they are by they ahead of the curve when, when calibrated for percentages, nineteen eighty, which was the right as is reared a lot of places. The start of the hundred education programme deal at the average is one point. Nine fatalities, since

Oh, let's see grants since the inception of idaho's hunter education program. Nineteen, eighty hunting seasons have averaged one point: nine fatalities and five point: eight non fatal shootings per per season once someone who's real good on the internet, fun to find that for michigan I know that the hunter safety program cause fatalities to plummet yup, but I think durkin wrote article about that on our website. You know it's funny about colorado, as they don't require orange for small game and bird hunting. if you're using a gun and yeah, I wouldn't you, don't need it here for bird hunting, but I wouldn't gripe if they, if all of a sudden you had to wear an orange hat, beard wouldn't have I wouldn't have. But it's this weird how their nit, picking this situation in the regulations. His we're all read them all the time. It's amazing how much print each state that doesn't require orange for upland bird hunting, how much print they take

in the rags, strongly encouraging it to where a quicker does that make the aid where it would just be quicker. Yeah such or upland bird. sure, anyway, it's like the other day, builded into bird vast and stuff. You know it's gone be related to why I don't do as gotta be. Oh, oh, oh, I a mechanism to free up, warns to do like more important warden work I imagine than just chasing around people. with not enough orange on in Michigan, they felt that the f b, I remember, being a kid and people saying that the reason they had on hunter's orange laws is sold. The game wardens could find a quicker mate that couldn't hide from game wardens and you'd be at what those cars people shoot each other. Lot right when you had the bad guys aren't taken those where some years ago

I'm gonna give up poets. Now they pass this quarter. Sorts lothar, vital programme sunk. You wanna, hear how many people died. Michigan roquat, the employees, thirty eight hunting related injuries, eighteen deaths between twenty fifteen and twenty twenty, but that our engineer, what we really need to know how many hunters anita the seasons, you know what I mean is there, no more and on the other side, too, is as pilot. More wooded hunting. So are you. She is like a lot of that people shooting through brush lobbies that unacceptable would much If the density of hunters, he, as an engineer has the right, have you been in a where? Are they they'll happen to them we took him down to put the tiki bar sign up there and I have rebecca the bitch fill. You might want wander over later on and take a look at that, oh sure, the odds at a turkey a walk pass. If you don't do anything, I liked that one, the woods I beg Jani will get back

durban run holding my eye It's already like you are the man. Did you do? doo, doo doo, doo doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo doo, my friends and neighbors, coming to that'll, be good guy Why would I agree to disagree on should again with that? Never give up. the others the wish fight on the beaches. If I had on the z list by its about yellowstone back to the wolf death, might in the hot springs we been far less often on for I dunno how long a few months now right.

this northern yellowstone wolf situation, where wolves that live that Dan the park are wandering pass the northern border of yellowstone onto public land in in montana and get shot, and I think, as a few months ago the first one got shot and they ve been when I'm away one of the first things I want to tackle is: do they wandered well I mean that's, that's the whole thing like this. It is hold their situation, is big ears were hungry rats. Old thing is this situation is based on the miss that these are somehow quote yet the stones, wool. Three! I got one asked one which is thus, your point, he might not think the human anywhere you somewhere. He lives. You might point the montana because no one I'm over and yell by our casey wander over there yeah

in the food likely. I just happen to you. My picture taken a lot more when I'm over that way, which lends people think that let us assume that these wars bend the majority of their time in yellowstone they laid down there. They raise their pops, their whatever. I think tat, probably the case, though my picture anyway. I think the last time we checked in, like three of these walls had been killed now are up to twenty and I thought the phantom lake pack, is now considered eliminated after most or all of its members were killed since october, so entire pack basically is considered eliminated. yellowstone, the hard part is the calling it a set back. The species launch viability, of which that's debated point with a setback share of research.

I have a hard time buying ye. I don't, I don't think so. These war, like montana relaxed some regulations, are changed. Some regulations, just north of the to allow more wolves to be harvested in that that region of montana the park superintendent is not happy about it. Some wolf advocates are not happy about it and kind of button heads park, superintendent called cam, surely as raise concerns, gonna call calling out Hannah governor June forty two to shut things down like out. You know just end the season now. Gene for day, as not having that and basically says you know this is When a man is wolves in our state, our going to manage them and the season is, is continuing so.

Learn where were never, that quote. Yellowstone is two point: two million acres of paradise, surrounded by reality. Birthrate you know like I understand if an entire pack has been. You know essentially eliminated that you know there's some concerns there may be, but I I I just I I don't. I feel like the as usual. This wolf thing is definitely being portrayed in the media without a real, dive into things into the wildlife management is just like twenty wolves killed, twenty yellowstone wolves, you're, never gonna, hear him refer two and a half price, had names sure they had none as for sure yeah, collars and numbers, and while I am in who do, the population level quote like that that our eat, my hat, if that biologist, who said that

like all there's only ninety four walls and yellowstone nodded that taken these wolves out hours. You're gonna have a population level effect on on. Was the main headline on how many pops are going to be born this spring right. This is not as it were, talk we often talk about a population talk about a population. If you want to talk about indonesia, within a population yeah, but the other thing it's not mention is like, wolves go to war with each other. All the time and like one wolf will forego pack will go way back another? And you know this vacuum of space is crap We did where there are no walls for awhile and then it's filled back up. You know, I I think, although these are human caused fatalities, you're, probably going to run into the same the same situation like some wolves are going to occupy. That territory at some point. Yet now is my main. Take away from Diane boys podcast with us was that, like that population fluctuates by fifty four

every year so eventually is ninety four. Then, when all those pops are born it'll bump up to come on quick math, Eighty eight yeah that that at popping season, the poppy asians, usually down fifty percent that arouses doubles and then at bright goes back down. Yeah they're, so mad worried about all these wolves. Gettin you know killed. Then they should stop the other path. from killing the other wars, because that's what kills wars is also vital area that has the ass. She said that the number the cause of death in yellowstone woolsey, elsa, wolves- we Don't even think would be here and about it. If these weren't yellowstone wool snow on the EU budget, Primary things that remain in resident, like the main interesting points to me, are that were still the yellow

greater yellowstone ecosystem, a term that I want to think of a replacement for the g. Why ye we're still above the object, away, above that everyone agreed to in the early nineties as what recovery would look like, so I'm cut out, I a hard time understanding. Why did that understanding of a recovery objective Like what has happened to make that so wrong, why why is the recovery objective now dismissed? The other part that I think is interesting just to just to watch from the sidelines. I guess I'm on the sidelines m m in it his arm to what degree, as you also national park or any national park gonna dictate, while they ve management across its borders,

state while which is like a really interesting fight, and it has implications for bison, has implications for predators like you have a national park and it has its own rules and it has its supporters and visitors. To what degree does that rule bleed beyond those borders with these buff, zones and other things we toyed with just a really interesting way to look at wildlife law and it's it's. This fed, vs state thing that's building up like you're, going to with grizzlies to yeah. That's like there's an undertone of that right is undertone of of local management oversight. Washington dc tonia live and dead. As soon as the debate was happening with the introduction of wolves into yellowstone. There was also the younger wooed. What hand when they go out of yellowstone, make the same breath same page There was never a far that oh, no, these are Yellowstone wolves. Therefore they will stay in yellowstone, and that's going to be that

what happens right, audio yellowstone they go the colorado and killed a first cattle and first beef cow and seventy? Great secular brought hid, yeah, Zimbabwe is way better. Nothing about those badger lisa. in colorado where unison, I've spent some time a few weeks back first, I start predation by wolves, confirm lifespan, stock predation by wolves and seventy years just happened. This put a roadside traction signer. Should you go down? The road says, like you know, a historic site ahead and they got one of those wooden signs of someone chiseled in the word out, and it can hit a button and the cow. The for this is where the first,

The car was seventy years killed by wolf in colorado, yeah and it gets juicer cause. The the I assume, wolves from the same pack just killed a ranch dog, a border collie named buster. May he rest in peace, Never new mexico, when that woman's dog got caught in a snare and the dog they made a law gap that was like what The dogs name, fruitless, there's, like programmes, programmes and I trapping will answer. Travel law became like programmes law. I want this The answer will lock out busters law now, don't know this. Our boaster, my body to his bird dog, does got caught in a code pennsylvania for only get it out. He dared yeah and I fired up and wanted to get some done. The game. What do you want to get some traps the game, and we wanted to see that,

got punished. Somehow I was like dude, like was the guy doing anything illegal know, there's a name on the trap. It was legally placed game on was, like sorry, can't do anything dog on a leash. Now you ruin his eyes kyle's foothold whose very the set, what that is a foothold dog was fine and whose going to remake the set he just some sent prove clause. We may I set up move down your job brody. Everybody anderson experimenting hastily. I got fired up, rodya speaker, speaker glove and he had a chance to try out those global gave you the lower good, really like I'm, I'm worried about durability, but far so yeah. I wear the cold weather wet stuff set decoys, pulling shrimp pots and whatnot like an insulated outlet, wherever the hell that the atlas vinyl love is called. The vinyl of you know like.

Box I like I should like to say that three four box with a now three four books they have that that insulated glove on the inside yeah yeah. Well, no, not the one that comes out, but I have both so that the kind of comes out which is far superior because anything goes wrong when the other ones, where I mean they're, wet for three years nationally apathy, yeah. You gave me the cairo, the insulation. Does it come out? You get that sort each had to be really care for anything, took mom up to their fish act, Steve notice that she had the kind where are they Installation stays on the inside men. You made that comment to her ad, ah but on the inside, with their fingernails ivan guessing hold the liners I'll cut a little.

Lying around them. So now there removable, oh as I think that some bad, yet my whole life on earth and also as an instrument of removing not as I said there is echoed java, remove removable now with liners. So but dexterity is poor, In any, I discovered a new kind word man, you can do brain surgery. No thanks. Yeah, I'm bombed about four pairs. One pair was for me and My wife was like, oh, but you know my your father in law would probably also like to have a set of those gloves, so I can't eat. I don't even have a set all my buddies and brilliant family are wearing. What are they show a temporary smile to eighty two. So I get insulated robert. Let live and learn it. Let me find online you'll. Think you're, looking at those vinyl alice, loves, dia bless. You do brain surgery. You count coins in but home

I am a little worried. I don't I dunno how old I was tipped off by product designer about him who said that lot of like ice, climbing a mountaineer folks to do a lot of climbing the winter and ropes, and what not that they were using that glove. They private for ice fishing too, you can get a pack of those atlas gloves to twelve for forty bucks on it. That's how I buy him yeah, that's how I buy them. He said you can actually do things with these. but I biomed relaxing way box than your idea. When I leave the pure. I think this is wasteful. When I leave my fish act, The last thing I do on my way out is burn my pair some, never tempted the where misgivings that guarantee therefore whole funky to get they have fun size, eyes, traddles. keep nice nam like once they get a hole in them. I just get rid of them or watch this transition.

You know how you know: how was it out sometimes yeah? Well, they got an Elk hunt in virginia first, whenever I'm twenty twenty two Virginia's going to have its first Elk draw they're opening up and out cant lie. this year. They did their where this is a quick turnaround. They did the reintroduction of Elk into Virginia between two thousand twelve and two thousand fourteen february. First application period will open for the inaugural hunt, They got balls run around already that they got three hundred fifty inch. Bowls run around nine hundred pounds, three or four inches the hunt the so this will be the hunt for the twenty two twenty three season. Now the hunt will be October eight of this year to october fourteen five antlered tag

The application period opens february, one closes march- thirty, it's probably residents only right, you, oh I dunno. I was going to ask if it was opened and on great news for virginia man. Pretty soon those are all those eastern elk populations are going to start connecting with each. I don't really recall when that happens. I got a hot tip for if you want some easy pickings draw the first year yeah, I think that you will get a close standing still shot. I imagine and so quick note we covered real heavily and wasn't even episode. Current get out of my airspace was a come. No, the lesson we do Dave Wilkie. Oh, it's all in you're, all up in your airspace, all up in your airspace in all up in your airspace. We covered this

warner crossing issue where some guys did a corner jump on a corner that had been the head he's a ladder to get her obstructions that the land owner who own the private chunks of the coroner had put up. and a lawyer, rode into us he's got a picture of the corner, a negative the sign says, but it's no trespassing sign in a chain strong in a lawyer, roared in saying that why is the landowner now being cited for having his obstruction chains in the public. Airspace, so he's violating the same airspace argument then he's arguing he sang when you step When you do a corner, hop your body is crossing my airspace. Yet his obstructions is chains are in,

public airspace. You is not a man. Your argument for has to ignore. Ledge. The argument against right, like if you believe evil, fair by you. Even good so he's like. I don't want your stuff over me. Air airspace so to prevent that I will put my stuff over your airspace. Man. We took this day. Wills even hasn't latin, that our stand, but he said it sure, seems he doesn't know he has looked into it? He just these said taken a black, so he's a cursory inspection. He points out is a thing called the unlawful in enclosures act.

Guarantees a right of access to all public lands, which dates back the eighteen, the bridge backs date back to eighteen, eighty five, he goes on to say I don't t I haven't done enough. Research know how is present here, but there is a thing here and he said, oh bits, an interesting idea to look into and we're all cover up Nathan that case again sometime soon k. I want to speed. Do the minnesota deal chair I like because the I believe, his hair, it's a sure, tip off. You know these articles say I'd like to point out. If the purpose of lake up prior rap she that was a real prominent in the switches? I didn't even catch that and I can't remember if it was like domestic abusers or like substance abuse anyway. The guy apparently was a bad egg. which is both a matter, but a got minnesota. Dear farmer had a minnesota dear farm. He had seen obedient infected animals, and what was he doing? What he was dump an amount

Public ground right outside is enclosure, and the what was a dns are found evidence like evidence of pre in the area where these dear being dumped and so the dear farm got shut down. They said you gotta puts up ten foot I bear, here a round this to keep other dear and humans out of the area he refused to do so. You got charged with several different things, whereas the bell Jimmy county on out of nowhere were built ronnie. It lays out what he got charged with

I broke the law in four ways: moving quarantine, deer off his farm dumping, their carcasses on public land, failing to test all his worms, dead, deer for cwd and failing to maintain accurate heard records, included, unreported dear death, so they nailed them. Ah, he refused to put up the barrier, so the state of minnesota did at the cost of one hundred and ninety four thousand dollars, and I. They're. Trying to get this guy to pay for it probably not going to happen, I don't know- maybe it will. But anyway, if you found a guy passed out behind a strip club in LAS vegas and rolled them over could be him exactly anyway with ease his argument just like the picture yet referred,

the argument against his argument is that this is government overreach, it's not the kind of barrier they put up around other places, its that's overstepping. What needs to be done, you know, I'd are you not enough, is being done, but I was going to say better, not Doug dern get a hold of this guy out. I don't just sent to send it to us, but it also how big disguise I guarantee douglas. this guy vienne from richmond county a good point here see dvd represents a major economic threat. Deer hunting represents a five hundred million dollar industry in minnesota, and what is the captive service? Industry represent economic I would thank the captain service industry would say these guys are poor representation of chirruped answer. Serbia be like if, if someone yeah. This care be taken roof, because if, if some guy, poach, like thirty dear guy,

Would we be saying you're being just goes to show them hunters right? It's like yeah, don't want! This is not a! I don't think this can be taken as as like that's how they are, but it is useful extraordinarily kind of like shitty thing to do: yeah, yeah, We have been a bunch of infected dear Call him off off your land and dump my private land than an egg it's not your problem when they want to remind publicly, as are you, take infected dear off your place, don't mom public land and then be. That is not my problem when they want hence it off somewhere. So dear aunt run around on your little homemade toxic site,. Which I mean this is. This is entire argument wrapped up in a nutshell, this guy, read the history of the conflict between the captive service industry, the proposed regulation history of okay. Well, we need stricter testing. We want a double barrel.

you're. So while the individuals cannot come in contact with captive or farmed individuals and he's like a hawk gotta, gotta use it as a dozen dear, more that one hour of yeah? Well, I think at one last point that that's important here is this is being watched closely by hunters officials, lawmakers and the commercial deer from industry, because what this, what ultimately deer farmers end up being responsible for clean up wise could like this could have occasions on that in the future. I could see that yeah. I could see that this could one of the the jogger grounds eleven acres we set up just lost eleven acres of public land.

But his enclosure was eleven acres, there's this guy, that about, while their their financing, all right, you're at tat. You don t in that area, just lost, not a catastrophic loss, but a loss. Eleven acres of public ground, which is now behind a fence to keep people out yeah your bomb. If you had a tree standing at eleven acres, the nice deirdre walk underneath it John miller, ready church first. I'll, say waiting oda John Millard from Minnesota yeah? That's all you need help, you can use your tragedies minnesota. Where does not get buried him? One gene miller, you gotta, be hard, look up a very old. Friends years came begin to try to find you and so on on facebook down miller.

how many dudes named John Miller are running around I'm actually, the sixth, so my dad's John miller and his dad's John miller and says you know about six of them that you're related to at least yeah yeah hard guy to find okay. How does how does the story begin. So I think the the the first thing I gotta start with is you know, kind of building up? You know what the situation from you know they actually, grisly tat right really not once it has beginning. What were you doing so we're out outcome and so it's something to do a bit like you like to get around. You do a lot of hunting so yeah. I do. I do a lot of traveling for work and I like to experience a lot of different, unique types of hansen and fishing, and things like that- and this is my first big al- connect trip. Actually I've I've had caltech before This is my first ball tag, and so we went out for,

in season, I I'm more of an archer guy like archery hunt. But you know it takes a lot more time, and so this time we drew general tags and went for the rifles in europe who are what mountain ranger. Last broker some somebody call absorb keys. How do you pronounce them? Well, there's two different things: the absorb arrange. But the absorb is something different right when people say I thought it was a city at one point in time, but then I've heard people use it. There is a there is a little town over. There have absorbed, absorbed yeah, but anyway, so we went out. Nanda season started on October first, so one october, first, the one of the guys in the group shovable and so a quarter that out one of the guys in your party correct. So there are six of us in camp in one of them, a bull october first, and so we call

our brow, the meat back to camp on its end, but left canada. I guess the gut pile and carcass of you will be bound and, as one does as It does, and I just threw that in there, so people didn't think that was normal. It would be a lot they're, so there was arcas, skynet area. That night I went out to her first again in the different areas of miles south and in seeing thing in you and with the horses are on foot, If we had horses there in camp and we'd kinda use them, but you know, if you got close to something. Obviously you type the horses in and go off on foot, but So let's is fast forward today, too so october. Second, on the first day, we had seen a herd of Elk beyond and where that first ball was killed. That gets moved after. After that back to see if you let her bristol air and so actually went up to this. This ruling

nah, where we could see this whole valley, it was kind of a burned area, so just kind of describing it for the listeners you know is really. Been really. You could see quite a long ways. the part of area that was the head, vegetal it was all burned off, and then there was a really baron ridge that kind of went down and what we are doing, passing we saw a hurdle get. Maybe twelve hundred yards nonjuror northern sitting. There were no hurry there I'll bet it down and we could see the carcass from yesterday and so we we ve, talked about it. We looked at in and it's yards from you. I would say how about five hundred so it's it's! A decent bed and any I could see a hundred yards? all around. I carcass and, and it looked like it, hadn't been touched, your mood or drug around or anything like that. Obviously see elk quota ways out and so you're you're focused cars, which is to say no to the Elk and so we started make a play on these l

me another guy, and so you moves are walking, and walking down this ridgeline, that there is a trail that kind of was cut into the side of this hail and two by ten ten fifteen yards to our to our right, and it was almost like a cliff that dropped. That is real, big valley and you know we're walking or the Elk at twelve hundred yards and worst we're. Taking our time stop and kind of glass into our left gaza. We can see, everything is often is burned. Vegetation and yours We confirm we don't smoke anything nor heard or anything like that, taken our time and I would say problem we would walk about a hundred yards, stop glass, little bed, you now taken ironic you got a blind to the right. You guess orbit, rolls over a blind spot, but then drops off sharp yeah and you know we ve been over there and and looked in order that that- Really, you would not expect anything. You know it just is, I would say six hunter:

feet kind of down into this big valley and other just just how much there so you going towards the guy We are from the day we are, but we're probably we're, probably gonna stay, the closest we have gone on that on that trail would probably got a hundred yards. You know board. We are headed in that general vicinity, And ass our third star, but you ve already seen the good part as we have seen and everything around and it just that's, not disturbed yeah, so you're out of your guards downloaded known, and so we stopped. Maybe a sec a third time this glass to our laughed and and Remember hearing it was more like a squeal than anything you brodie squeal, but let's hear basket, ray yeah

fondly approached a little bit more aggressive than that, because you can you can I don't mean to embarrass you, but I just like yeah. I knew you're going to ask him. Give me a reason. Give me a rough. Let's, Let's do like a do like a similar to similar, two. I almost what you think like a warthog or something would do yeah kind of who did that, just yeah so and so on I'm literally looking involve us offers are looking through our binoculars to our left. I ended the burn and you hear the and when you hear the noise, which is effectively over our right shoulder. So so we look over our right shoulder and there is a sow grizzly bear at it's. Ten to fifteen yards mean it's close, and it is runnin false beard and then there's two cups trailer and coming from,

direction of the goat power like now are, as you know, is not related to the gap. So why wouldn't come back? but over the cliff effectively to our right. She came up out of that stuff, not out. Stuff of it out. Add up really if the other edge is a rock cliff that you would when struggle to walk up without ropes, ethnic origin, skyline zone raids line, yeah, she's, cholera map, stuff, she's, german format, ridge and others that ridge and No, I would say I would say it so so let let me know kind of describe the. I guess the situation here, I'm standing with my binoculars look into my left over the right over to the right and there's the sounds. You cubs and you know the first thing, first thing I would love to say. The first thing went through my mind was like: let's fight, you know that that is now at avenue knows how do we get out of this right? So I took a couple steps back and I watched that that salvation

Glee car redirect redirect her her trajectory and you know it started it. The other guy, and I ahead of you, he was trail is ahead of me. And I may have seen senior first, because I can have a better vantage point from looking over my shoulder and what not, and so you not, kind of describe. That is almost like a national geographic film of like watching of bare attack like a clueless animal or something real graceful, real, real, fast am. I her mind was made up forests are that choose pony and so you know. I've listed some of your podcast and you talk about your big mistakes. I'm gonna talk about three of my big mistakes right here. Please so I have a I have a I have a cannabis ray, I also have a rifle. I do you have a site, and we can talk about that in a second, but he has only so much gear guy can take, but in my rifle John I'm kind of a

Meticulous guy right I like to keep my gear la really nice, and you know I can't change my mind since this incident, but you don't want it knows any more I had a scope cover on, which is absurd right, go cover on and I had Bullets in the magazine, but not in the chamber, Am I scope as people do? Yes, as people do anna, My scope set to it wasn't me, I think was at ten power game now, I do think you don't get up after his two I'm like I could see it. I could see it, but that's inexcusable, that is excusable, but I'm not saying that from a bear pursuing, but I'm saying that for like a gender no doubt and any other thing that had been the guy who killed the Elk the prior day I'd, be sure to empower get at your leisure, jerk longshot. Never just The other thing is a kind of got into.

Some long range stuff. So I really you guys bright total. I get into here. I like the first focal plane scopes and nobody uses them from hunting really like for hunter. I use, I guess, you tricked me if I'm wrong, but of these folk, I'm had on, but no not ma. Am I hunting guns? No, Complaint there is obviously, like you know: you're crosshairs, a real fine when you're zoomed way out and what not and so do. I tried a first focal points: go scope, because everything is, as you dial the scope. The crosshairs get thicker and thinner correctly, like they let the cross magnify out magnifier and was made about. It is like you're you're on your chris Tree below is always correct, regardless of power on right, and so it's If you make out five honour does not, I think you can have. I should say I have you can have, those that are extremes those who deny stays pretty nice.

I'm not sure I waited on your door, but they you can get home where it's like very fine threads right or where words sort of like, like a user, all thickness, no matter where you are where you can still find it against the dark object. Sure sure, but I think we're getting hung up on. We were getting done and what just one last comment there. If you have illuminated, it really helps, but anyway there wasn't time to throw that on, but so anyway, I've got some issues so within, I would say: let's gonna run down I'm one here! I have no yeah there's a bear. Looking through binoculars, I see a bear, and within, I would say, within a hat, probably a sec Maybe a second and a half that bear is eating the individual in front of me it's on top just going down

and I actually can't see describe oh grizzly. Bear eating nearby looks like well, so there's so. I would say when it was a couple. Maybe ten feet away from them is when I started, and when you get a rifle so I missed. I missed the the event where it smoked in. Like you know, J J I would like. You expect a linebacker just a blind side. Somebody that's really by what happened and from my vantage point at this time. I can't see a human at all. I can see just the bear and I can't see the head, but I can see the neck muscles like it's devouring red sea, so I can see cars biting it like they're, both looking away from me effectively, so that the the bearers I can see Where's rear- and I can't see it tat- is your partner on his belly rounds back side in a tough dude, great great reaction,

The thing he actually got on his back and what was going on at the time was. He had stuck his left arm out, trying to draw his side on which is in a shoulder older, but the bear it immediately just grabbed his hand, and so From my perspective, I can't see any of that. I could just see a bear. And I know my dear I bodies under eat them and so that was it. I remember a couple like very cognitive decisions going through my head right, first one is. How do we get away? Second, one, as you know, we are not yet this. Is this happening right now, and so I, I grabbed the rifle chambered around The cover often brought it up. You know to achieve an end. Surprisingly, I I remember like immediately finding the bear you know like you'd think me

Jim, the baron only the bear, you know it Think I must have been haven't like two eyes open or something it's. I seemed incredibly confident where I was aiming at that time. You know, are actually attend power, at close range. That's incredibly confident- and I remember thinking to myself like why can't shoot here, which is why I would like to shoot because I'm shooting internet rendered when maggot twitter, ninety five rain bullet it six yards ten yards and is probably not the others. I write so, you don't want to? I mean I didn't want to shoot there, and so what So we went to my head was enough know if just shoot the barrel probably get spooked and raw, which is what we need in that letter. But so I remember you aiming where I thought kind of vitals, were both. I can't you we're, so I just brought it up to kind of the the higher part of its back. That's what I was kind of trying to explain. Video were ahead. is adrenalin running, but so I brought up higher on the back and just squeezed and she went off in that

that bear immediately lead up, turned and started charging me. and I guess I would describe it as like. You know that the film kind of change dry, of course, as is now the beautiful national geographic film, of a bear kind of going going in kill and then all of a sudden was like the revenant. Where the bears angry really angry answer. So the bare immediate starts letting up which actually allows the other guy too. To draw his side arm, whereas those gone on his left hand. Ok, draw his side arm with his right in kind of git up wealth, while discharging around, which was awesome And I remember thinking to myself the shot. You know. I really hope that you know that died. Individual live on the other side, as I remember how looking around the bear and he

standing up and I like victory in immediately followed by oh shit now alone he's getting up, you said he discharge shot to. He also did yes, the barriers between you guys. Yes, we now, sir, your location, as you were of his location. I think This all her hand, her pleasure by honestly. He kept his wits real rip quite quite well and he's got a millimeter pistol, use incorrect direct. The sample size is very small, but there is a statistic floating around after these guys had a sort of meta analysis of all these bear encounters and it was in contexts of spray. Vs pistols am I you guys remember this- that twenty five percent of the time a firearm is discharged during a bear attack. It hits a person, gs rams. A lot, that's crazy. I can think of like multiple

stories of things, just in the last few years of that happening. Well, I dunno, but, like I said man, it's like how big the saint you know I dunno I dunno. I remember that was just that was out there floating around out. There sure sure so so bags of stories that the bear is now charging me. Another you know he discharge that there, the the one round and I remember trying I basically took two steps back and you not actually after the incident. Listen to your guys, guess about you, diving out of the way stephen and who is the other individual alex, may be from alex mess messenger the canoe guy. He also like you guys- are crazy diver. My my philosophy was get on my back, so I don t mind back- and I had my rifle basically kind of a friend of my neck and and I stuck out in a brought my foot up, my philosophy- was kind of a hail mary, I'm the kick it in the face and the kitten this now.

who is your town iraq? Another round now I mean it Actually, I think subconsciously. I tried because, like my My hand got jammed under my bolt, which was out so I had pulled the bolt out and hadn't even really been able to drive another rounded And so on, my back and where's, common jaw, open snapping, and you know it gets to that last step and I kick and edge. I just kind of meant a hit something but I I miss an early hidden thing, solid right and and the bear now is all of a sudden kind of. Quartering away and you know trying to animals. Get away or circle around or something, but something happened right. so severe that follows the bare gets gets quite close and when the bears of circling around her or making its way away?

looking at is his hand, which is dumb, is quite quite mangle and- and I see his pistol and so I go and grab that pistol I'm thinking myself, I'm not doing round to this, and so I put three more pop pop up and and at on real, quick yeah and at bears not that far away when you're in the video correct and at that time the cubs were actually and I kind of left that out, almost word near me, almost the whole time, and so I am I finishing off the the bear with the cubs running passed me to go to that's our job and the very kind of was that what was the age class on cubs? Certainly here comes last year knows this year's cubs yeah. There are real small, and so yes, oh effectively, you know, five rounds are fired, the situation is neutralised and now it's time

kind of attend the medical situations that salaries as so the bear has been shot. eyes that runs issued got more times and then it does like piles like debtor dad or like piles up like in an n brown for long time. There was no, like you know, like a death mon people's iowa death minds of bears. I really didn't do that, so so just kind of run through it, you know, and in fast in fast motion, so maybe one or two seconds before the baron top of the other individual there is shot. You know probably half a second second well on top then immediately charges me. You can imagine how long that took maybe a half as second or a second and is trying to get away the three other shots are fought, united, the pistol fire, three other shots and the whole of, I would say six to eight seconds from from Knowing there's a bare too firing the last round thinking to myself that did it and

and I would say that the last round it contradicts buckle, you know it just you know when you hit something that you like, okay, that at her you know and so. so then the cubs go and they go and hang out on that sal and so then we're kind of addressing the situation and so- I go through my pack and another mistake? also I don't have a. I have a first aid kit back at camp it I don't have one in my bag, but I do have a spare set of wool socks, and so we kind of put the thumb back in the the work, we're supposed to be in and I wrap one sock around real tight and almost I like it or not, or a split and then put the other sock over the top. Just the kind of apply pressure to the room then- obviously keeping it elevated and what not image that whole area we did not have any cell service, but

really right on that ridge. We were able to combine one warning and explained the situation at that. Time there they mentioned the helicopter or that to get a helicopter or whatever it would come from riverton, which is little ways out and they they couldn't take off for another hour. So, as you were talking three to four hours before a helicopter would come in. Really, if you looked at the you know, the scenery it wasn't really somewhere. You could land nicely god, let's just say that so made the decision to ride out so we contacted the other. Folks in the in the party in they brought the horses down and we rode out and we were met by a mirage of people that have recently at the trail head, you know, your game in fish search and rescue teams helicopter

at atlanta that drill head and ambulance so on and so forth. Really for sure it was. Actually. This is kind of a funny gym. Zumba was there just to see what's going on, and I'm not really sure that- and you know it's kind of embarrassing, probably on my my behalf, but another guy, that was there was like hey well. This is you know, and- and I look at him and I and I have no idea- I did not know who Jim DUMBO was at the time, but so anyway, I can't say I'd recognize him either. So just there'd be like what's going on You must live nearby or are you all right yeah and I know he is in northern wyoming yeah sure he's playing the captain quint character like when you get there he's like I'll catch, you a bear, yeah yeah, so is your buddy real quick is your. Is it just his

hand- that's messed up. Yes, so it it seemed like from my perspective that took a long time, but I think it was quite quick in and yeah really The only the only real injury is the hand you know I had. I actually had a little tiny drag on my machine, which I still have a little bit of a mark their, but from the bare that's correct out: what's it through nail You know that that happened. When I tried to kick in, it tried to launch just hope and it's the bear could it have been guy he's. Gonna have a little it's really a show, it'll be gone and it'll puncture, launcher and and it'll be gone in six months or it's not really a scar, but I would go see if someone can help me keep that so you you made it to the trail. Had Antonio curious items on the hook for the helicopter, so there was

individual, but that that that needed, the quick medical attention actually had helicopter insurance, so not necessarily on the hook, but good timing. I guess yet if that hot or had it workers, he had had it for some time before you, you. Never you never know when you're gonna need it, but tat makes you wonder why do you have, without knowing? I wonder? Is it like a real specific that I think we have? That was, I don't mean, I know very little more when he when you thought he was being eaten, merits on top of em. What was well what's his perspective, what was going on His perspective is kind of like that it was playing with him like a dog, almost really yeah, more mines. Thumb yeah so it stayed on his hand as grab its hannah grabbed his hand and pushed him down. It stayed with his hand.

In his mouth. He s hand was in its mouth the whole time in her in her mouth seconds. Yeah, maybe even plural. Let me close, you know anyone, so it's maison is no clause were used right. I mean you'd think that you got the lever do the bear. He got the leverage. To do is stretched the stretch the arm with one year clause and well I mean who knows she priority the lad, if you hadn't, shouter sure you're so so that's gonna there. There was the first run through and now kind of what I have learned in and I guess went through the first time there Then, all of a sudden, now it's kind of what your brain. Now it will now your brain in fish back to jail. The situation at as as

one, would know and understand, and so all this just for listeners. This is a the grizzly bear in the rocky mountains in lower forty, eight is listed as threatened and has endangered species act protections which means that if you kill one they're going to make sure that it was legal and it's like obviously lie to kill one in defense of life but they're starting to come check it out and I believe that's the only reason they can kill, can't, kill it property right or game or anything like them. So so we ride in theirs off for folks from the state that come in and there's a biologist, I think apprentice, there's the game warden for that region and then his supervisor right in about six miles so it took about was about six miles there. One way we write in six miles

and then I basically reenact what happened, and it was your pretty clear in their blood trails and And things like that, and actually when we arrived in other cubs, we're still there, so we we they have to do an investigation, so we need to remove the cubs from the from from. The sound order perform the investigator investigators in the news that the euthanize, the cod and So I go through I kind of run through reno. My position, reenact together individuals position, then kind of follow. We where the bear had come from and and gone, and you know the the whole just to kind of paint the the radius for the listeners. You know, and it starts maybe ten or fifteen yards to to to my right and and maybe ten or fifteen yards to my left, so the whole thing and then the whole situation is a thirty

lying to me, it's very close quarters, and so what you're above tree line again. So it's it's all clear, feel the view lot brush not allowed a dead, for there is no where the grizzly died was kind of the beginning of the timber line, but it was a burned area. So it's kind of It's easy to see what that's where those as the burned area, just paint the picture and so one thing they want it is they wanted to find some mob, a brass for the for the investigation. If you will So I knew there were five five rounds. The the rifle was obviously easy. One fine

and we only found one one of the pistol rounds, but one of the pit, the one pistol round that we found was actually covered and blood, so the casing was covered a blood winning. it's kind of interesting, and we can kind of. I think I have some ideas of where that came from and and then and then the next step in the the the investigation, if you will, is to really now go, look at the story and then look at you know that the evidence the I guess make up of the bear ral. Where long is this whole lake investigation procedure taking, are they all like detail, business, oriented like taking their time or yeah? It's pretty thorough and you know it's. Obviously, it's they haven't every day. If I may mention that I was the fifth that year, however, it was the first bear recovered,

So I don't have. That means that somebody got attacked. It didn't get away. I dunno and I dunno. If that means no shot, was fired at the bear. I'm not really sure what that means, but I. Another. The ride obviously took the longest amount year, twelve miles round trip, but The investigation me mean it hours I skinned it right. There yeah, I I assisted in that, so it was kind of from my perspective. It was kind of, and you know it was kind of neat to be a part of that because you know you, you know how it played out right in So then you can see Your where the individual bullets landed on that on that bear- and you can kind of then start to put the pieces together on like why this happened. Why did it lay out that way? Why did the bare change erection and not lunge at me s second right.

I, and so there are some things that were really really evident, jan and so skinning out the bear. You know I mean I the the the first thing that was remarkable and it's obvious kind of when you say it out loud now, but the difference in damage from the three hundred win mag to the ten millimeter right yeah I mean it's a high powered rifle versus a handgun right, so you'd obviously expect a lot more. But so, let's, let's kind of talk about the the individual bullets right, so the the shot with a rifle had entered

I have upper mid, but the the right side of the the back of the of the bear and the exit hole was kind of out near the neck front front right quarter and the exit hole was quite large and and so that's the first thing, you're kind of like boy, I'm glad that exit hole. Didn't you know, contact anybody and you know it's and but then then we kind of started looking for more more bullet holes, just the see in a play it out and so zipping out in a more the more the hide. There were two ten millimeter rounds that had passed through the kind. Almost gunshots really good. and you know, when you're shooting a running animal, a couple yards, you never know not going to take your shower yeah, so those are kind of a it was basically a clean pass. You know kind of you know

we're gut, shot but kind of came out. The other side, oh and then another one, that kind of came out the other side, so, like kind of quartering away gut shots, if you will to have those pests all through all the way through and and what do they look like? There is a lot of trauma, their origin or not so much so those further. Using those like two hundred and twenty grain buffalo bore rounds midge, you know deep penetration, you and a lot of a lot of people talk about deep bench. And what not one thing in the brain and other thing in the right: ass, soft parts, right right and so Originally. We found those three shots. Everybody knows there get upon shit right between the eyes, her racket, it was like getting already you like one hit and right now exactly right, and so I've found those three shots originally, and you know I kind of sing and myself there's gonna be all right. I guess I know, he shot five times, and so I

carbon away. I actually found another one that was almost like dead centre of the back in the vertebrae. Any kind of like got lodge in the vertebrae. Unlike our, I tracked, you know like you is like a hollow The area there in kind lodged in their a kind of thing that was the one, I am did up. You know what I mean almost paralyzing sure the final shot there, but you know so so that's really. Your final find the last shot. it could have been on there and sometimes it's hard to see through fat. When there's not a lot of trauma and you have just a bullet, you know a bullet hole. It's just you're you're searching for a quite a small target and you know we're not really keeping this thing out. We're not saving a cape or anything like that. So it's not like it's a knife, clean, clean you. I dont get the impression with the spine, shot that you're. Like

Here's this massive broken spying on this bear no is clearly that one we found an entrance hall and I mean it the fish, had a metal detector and were trying to like find the bullet and carve it out and whatnot. We never found anything but, and we didn't spend a ton of time on it. We also didn't really have the right tools. They brought a metal detector, they did yeah me and my six year old just got a metal detector. You don't really get into that big time. I'll save that for another episode, though sure sure, and- and so I yeah, so those are the four bulls. goals that we found that there could about another one planet in the back or in a fatty. Indonesia has taken note of all the stuff you other taken out. Pictures and notes and collecting samples in doing stuff. That's you know that I'm not really paying that much attention to your pride, Sylvia, little razzle, thitherward, razzle, yeah, I mean that's what I meant to say same day same day, yeah same day, long ass day

it happened right away in the morning and we happen to think- was at seven. Fifteen. Am the road out road back in again the I'm a little surprised. As they kind of put you back into that situation after going through that, I would say they didn't put me in that situation. Are you offered yeah for sure, and they weren't? I mean they. Certainly. Actually they got a lot of respect for the the folks that we worked with I mean they were. They were very good. about it and very professional, and did you get a sense of their attitude like I know not again are like their lake. kind of how they felt about all by greece. In general, Maybe not, but you know I think, they're real professional via you now Nobody likes nobody likes. You know that they were certainly more excited to investigate a dead bear than that human sure there there is it's gotta- at the mood when you injured person where

we're gone into it like that. These guys panic sure he shot at fort. Are the way just condemns looking at our own bear like a wounded dude, so probably pray go Not so much with your, like, you know, inspector mode right yeah. I was just curious if it's like out these like They have attitude their ideas. Danbury, there's yeah, then the trail here today, but you guys up and get each story. I mean it was such a cut and dry story. You know like, like Steve says: you know: you've got a guy with a with a with a bite. You know obviously you're close if you're getting bit and I do believe they took a dna sample of the bite to match. The bear a very moderate journey here that you didn't bite on zaire

which spread of most journalists use eyes when he was interviewing people who are involved in stuff like this, he was eyes and one of the things you would look for is any time someone said, and then I proceeded. He said that rs certainly pay like a little alarm in his head. Go ha like they had thought about what they're going to say ahead and then I proceeded dirty said: you'd, be surprised. How often you hear that when you hear a story that maybe everything doesn't add up right right, I show you know that that was that was kind of investigation. So, as you know, they took recording What I you know me going through the motions- and you know the the bear was kind of dissected and- and you know each shot was kind of analyzed. Now they took a bunch of pictures and documentation and whatnot. I didn't. I didn't really know if that was for his per se. Today, impound your weapons, they keeper

no, they do not. You know it. The hampshire powdered, you bear hydrate. They actually can just destroy everything you know, and yet I respect I mean you know you're, not oh they're, taking they're taking the hide. So nobody else does you didn't get to keep a claw? No, no! No! It's pretty they're, pretty strict about you, know and everything's It'd be destroyed, or you know, there's no, there's, no trophies right. Isn't. Let me tell you a quick tour understand with a quick story in alaska. They auction all that stuff off, so they have these like personal, like bears killed for property defense like life and property, defense sure when you kill one, you estimate the heightened school sure and they have an auction. I know about a guy that skinned his like he did he skinned his like the gutless method and split it

at the back. I dunno why? Okay, he went to the auction. They all these damn bears and there's only one mo, so he can know which one of those kinda why I dunno? If he was game and at the time, which is how he did it, they said bring the hide. So whatever reason he made a slip, the back and somehow got the height of the thing, went to the auction. God is bare and he said he knew it because, like to do that. That's what I heard I don't know the guy, but I heard the story. It could be like a lie story. I don't think it's a lie. Story yeah. I do recall specifically the skull right eye. the supervisor there was yet and- and they all feel really bad about everything. You know I mean they're, they're, super understanding and yeah and he was kind of like you know. I hate to tell you this, but I need you to to give me the skull. Now with my hands already dirty and I'm just curious rights, I got an allowance gun a lot of it out, and so I got the head off work.

and handed german. They destroyed it with like hatchets, are hammers or something like that, just as it would just to destroy value just a witch. Did he end up again? I have a that, like still like sarka european, an age on the bear. You know there's going to be an official report on it and you know I'm not able to get my hands on it for for some time, but I'm I'm thinking that'll all be in there and I'm curious to read it for sure. Yeah. Another collection allowed data sure did the what what wound up being the the relationship you have with the end of the the guy that was getting his hand mauled up like like

what kind of happened you guys had a chance to talk, and you know, is kind of a somber ring a sombre moment for everybody. You know and is you know, is a is a once in a lifetime experience. You know, I think you hope We hope you know we built a lot of respect for each other. You know unaware that the situation was handled in dome, he was was, is equally rattled about, debris strong about it and he was real strong about it. I mean, I know not afraid of the mountains. Now now now you got different feelings about grizzly, the country side, some procedural shit now yeah. I got a lot more respect for the animal. That's for sure. I I definitely I definitely have a lot more respect for for fur. Grizzly bears, and you know why. my mentality of staying out of those sitting?

nations and having different equipment and different locations of equipment will will be will be changed. Where is your spray? It was on the outside my fact that you ever think about grab, although my outside paths, like unreachable ritual on the ways belt a greater really by gravity. I didn't I mean like, in hindsight I would say at the moment the thought process was the right always the job? You know I mean it's gonna like what you gonna blind, but here and hope for the best you know I didn't say: I didn't do well much time thinking regard for my bare spray. had that been sixty yards out yeah absolutely think that I would like to hear what I do think about, I think of made my first choice at sixty yards out in in that situation would have been very spray

So no one what you now know, what would be year like what you bear protection system so next time you do it so before that incident in. I really I really had this this also I'll, say it false mentality that you know. If you if you shot a bear with. Let's have a forty five http or something like that. You know like it would real is that it's it's up against a real match here? No, it brow, probably deter them leave after shooting with three hundred when mag and watching it charge like ay a very pissed off animal. Bigger the better ever if you have to shoot a first of all a quest

isn't that good, when you guys did the necropsy? Did you guys got it to see when you said that the where the path of that three hundred when when did it cut, did you catch vitals on that? I personally got it and the heart was fine. The lungs looks fine, the liver looked fine, really the intestines, which the bullets passed through. I never even saw split in that, so your three hundred win mag round went above the vitals above the vitals yeah so and so actually didn't happen. We didn't really put this all together too. Obviously, the whole thing's done right now we're the we're back in camp and we're talking about how crazy the event was, and you know a couple of takeaways there. You know we we just start talking about, and you know the just the odds of that

You two sets of odd right. First set. You know the odds of getting in that situation. Incredibly unlucky to get in that situation. Right now, and- and you know that I can think of- is the bear had when did the carcass. and was maybe making its way there and then got like a burst of sand, was starving, ready to eat and just came ready to came over till top just ready. Zimbabwe is a very unlucky timing. Had we sit up on that now for ten more minutes you might see again about was circling it to try to figure out his big born air, whatever somethin you now, sir it is hard to you'll, never know We know that, but we know sedona contents undigested elk me. Oh that's a great point. I did not open the stomach, I don't know of anybody else there did that have been. Did you guys ever take a look at the carcass afterward to see if it had been it hadn't been messed with hasn't been

now you have like you don't have to, but he gave you like. There has been some relationship, so the gut pile, the relationship that predators like to travel on ridge lines they like to travel on nicely defined trails. You know who I would think that the you know that the bear had winded the the carcass and had just been working its way that direction thinking. You know, I'm hungry, there's something here, and so I really think that that's what kind of brought it to the general vicinity that tracks the animal for the last hundred yards indicated that it knew we were there and kind of food. Lord us along the backside of that ridge and popped over when we were clue in it was close and we were close, real yeah so it wasn't like we wisdom, and anyway it was defensive yeah, it seemed like it was it it smelled, ass were starving.

but by a bad news organization would say when the hundred becomes the hunt right of stolen her job. Going back to your going back to what we're kind of talking about it. You know back at camp, you know the odds of the situation were incredibly unlucky. are low and unlucky how you wanna get then once were in that situation with the bare coming. You know it. Ten fifteen yards I dont know another situation that plays out the ends up better than that. You know, whereas on top of somebody had had you know shot landed a little bit differently. You know, does it now there's a lot of different, like its fang, could punctured his brain pan could alike, just a severed spy. What its You have what you could hear a hole through the guy right. There's just me. I look at that and I think if I

We did that nine out of ten times. I think nine of them are really bad give you know your friend said that, to his perspective, was that the bear was playing with him at what point did his perspective change? Did he ever talk about that? I would say after I mean once that rifle shot went off, you know it bled up. You know I mean it it kind of its focus changed to coming coming towards me and and really I, you know, kind of cutting, putting all those pieces other back at camp actually is when we kind of pull it out again. there were well well? What I think happened was obviously incredible unlucky timing,

It comes and not really in a hurry, not really threatened, just ready to eat, and so it's kind of taken it's time starts doing its job gets hit in the back and kind of you know the the rifle shot really rendered the front right useless. I mean it's just a detached a lot of those muscles right, just kind of hamburger, this area, and then it went and turned around and charged full speed. To accelerate enough you're gonna. Look at the Anatomy of the animals it's gonna use its hind leg. The really drive and start start running and what it seem to me. Is it went to launch there at the last second, and it was to my left, which would would line up perfectly with it. Right shoulder veiled failed, so it basically went to push off and when it went to push off

one side, you know just pushed it that direction and it probably swiped bit I yet we collided in some manner, but not really at all, and that was the mental Asia, the bear it to realize I lost a motor skills, though and then it was heading out and then it was probably trying to get into a safe zone. But you know at that time. I didn't even know if I hit the bear, I mean I think I did I got a shot clean over the top of it and I have no idea what's exactly I I don't know. One knows is mostly we like to talk about it. No one knows what they were doing their situation. I like to think that out of done what you did and shot some more you ve, just like a point of commitment. Leslie like one of these guys like it's a mall me, that kind of wandered off and then it back of all me? Some more, I mean united.

It was just a really an impulse decision and looking back you know it's kind of like whenever bite somebody, I think they're, probably gonna, take dean sample, try and find the bare probably put the bear down anyway? I know it's been here because while we do not have just completely killed me right, there, so the idea of an injured animal, it's already known to bite somebody, let's just finish the job right here. You know those and I really think I went through that process. I think my process was more like Why the hell we just came out of that, but I am not going to to rival mode yeah. How's your buddies hand, remark, Well, you know I mean the doktor imagine unite its infection. That really is the problem, be no answer, an hour or more later, that becomes a much different animal junction did. Did you notice.

This story for another time, but I have a very similar bear circumstance. Then nothing ever happened with it other than bears ran away, but it was related to a ridge line. It was related to an outcome did you notice? One of the things that I notice being that close to bears was the smell of home. Did you do you have any like in recognition of this, I think smell of a bear that, because that's something that I took away, I was like holy cow. This, the smell of a bear. Man was, you know, I didn't do that. That does not come to mind. Yeah. I that what you're saying let's go smell, the roses here. You know, and you know it and yeah. I would say that I, I don't recall a smell from that incident.

one man glad you're alive yeah give mammal are too hard for me. I will. I will tell him tell him that way. It is and your body, I'm glad he's doing good for sure for sure do not. I got one last question for sure it's a hard one to answer. Are you going I happen to know that the experience, obviously when it's when it say when it's a good story, whenever what I mean by good is when everybody came away. Okay, you know, I mean some injuries for sure, but you know it nobody, nobody is, you know, crippled nobody. You know nothing like that, and so I mean I I def. We appreciate the experience. If you told me, what would you go into? What would you go

in that situation again, and how do I word this the same scenario doesn't necessarily play out, but you get to redo that situation. I would say no absolute I can't say, what's gonna happen but a barrel beyond somebody. I would actually not do that again, because I think that the probability. Is so low of the outcome that we got there, that that is. That is that that wouldn't be worth it for sure, and you know being the problem being that you know the the outcome that we got and I can oppression The experience for sure sure the only one thing that you just never consider- and this is every bear stories unique in obviously, but this one's you need for different reasons.

The one thing that you mention everyone thinks offshoot square in the eye is growing square between the eyes you know in, one thing that I never considered was, Only am I not gonna be able to like get a good shot, but there there isn't. There. instances out there where you can like actually not shoot the vital. You know what I mean my. I would love to put that bulletin gave that bear at texas, heart, shot and and hope for. You know blow out every around your partner right too, and that's and you know that that's that really changes the game and just cause Have you been using a much smaller caliber, for instance, let's say it did have a sidearm there. I would have gone for the sidearm just out of habit and that's where you think you should do and you could probably get more shots off and so on and so forth, but you might be pretty.

stop right. Now, too. Yes, I mean that site, I'm not gonna. Take that quarter out. You know it might I do something differently, but I dont think that you know the sidearm is going gonna turn hamburger. Their quarter that bear and render render that part of the very useless wish we had. His little wards said the mediator: podcast nerve of steel, ward, I give you one why? I should think you word, because otherwise, there's going to hear that very high signal. Both staple feels like a best possible outcomes. yeah sure answered that you got the best possible outcome in the world of probabilities. Thou and now and I'll take a guy. I work with it always uses the line and rather below

Even good sure, that's one of those for sure. That's where how you're feeling that's one of those for sure well, they're, coming on appreciate it, and I appreciate man very instructive. It reinforces my primary theory about bear attacks, have never been his Well, get something like I'm quoting Joe rogan who, whose quote and someone else which is on everybody's, got plan till they get punished in the face yeah. That was that MIKE tyson does remember, hearing it from him, but yeah everybody's got plan to get punched in the face very accurate statement. Alright man thanks a lot thanks to the

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