The you show was severely wounded and, in my case, unaware of the meat eater podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first light created proven versatile hunting, apparel from marino base layers, the technical outer where for every hunt burst like go far stay longer, isn't bill smith. Most popular name, listen starts machine! I'll, tell you! listen. There are some names the world's gonna run out of yes in bill, the whirlpool. Will there be The world or run out a bills before people

back in the name of their kid bill, like after harry potter, came out airborne. Their kid henry they want in the name of harry, but all they knew that people know that it was because they like those books, so they named Henry huge proliferation, Henry's that. While we almost ran out a henry's than not now I give to iraq without hidden henry, I draw under all ten years, all under I feel when I ran out of bills, where's that frank Frank seems to be dying to well. Ok, yeah, my dad was frank. We almost named our daughter frankie, so ozma namer, frank after her paternal grandfather and then rose

rose after her paternal grandmother and great grandmother saw the name of Frankie rose and then found out that there's some musician named frankie rose and just change it to rosemary cause, as my mom's name good choice but yeah, we'll probably run out of franks but they'll frank eat What about george, I believe, as I like, that I remain, I think, we'll get very low on georgia's yeah, but do you think there's gonna be revived it's hard to know. What's going to be revival, no one saw it coming that everyone was getting their kid henry named their kids Henry, because I think they thought that they'd be smart. I liked the name Henry, but I had no clue there's like a majority of kids now and I know nobody knew me baby, I'm your city You go to a city, you can't the rock real had a playground lie hidden Henry don't even for harry potter? You think that's like my theory. Ok, you too, I think it's a sound

in theory, but, as you said, I think they were like. I really want to name him harry, but the number gonna know I like those kids' books, so they named him Henry. the scheme to remind him? I thought you were pulling legitimate research member, that's just you're feeling necessary, listen, there's and theories amended that are hard to substantiate my brother Danny believes that he can untangling his head that bill Clinton became president. All kids started wearing bike helmets he feels that others like feels itself. He doesn't he hasn't untangled yet, but he feels it. There was a somehow a link between the Clinton presidency in for How many hundreds of years gives than have white helmets, and then they got a bike helmet one bill Clinton became president his theory, so I dunno, I don't share the theory. What I'm saying like some theories are hard to like prove and disprove. They all started playing saxophone in their boxers. Do yeah

In terms of names, it would be interesting to know liked justifies altogether did monica drop off in prevalence following The Clinton presidency. I could see that happening at that seems very probable. because that was during that french show, where the Let us make friends popularity like right now. I wouldn't be surprised if this podcast sedative, if we had a different sort of focus, we can dig into the stuff a little bit more. I wouldn't be surprised if Jeffrey, if there are some people who were going to go with Jeffrey, had a change of heart. I'm not fallen purposes of his name, jeffrey apps, I'll, follow and I got to know them. Very real was hung the death in his jail cell.

Yeah. No, I didn't say no yeah, that's a good point, but I put it like hung to death. Like someone did it, I feel, like I think, there's a fifty person. chance, that's true, which certainly lack typically, I just like us by still sits, or so I do not know the leading to annoy the leading conspiracy theory. So exley, I don't understand like what they leading you. One of the lead conspiracy theory bug I fear I believe now, but now but a time. This is the one that has explained me by someone who traffic settling conspiracy theories. It was that steam was a massage had agent, that's good! man, that's old news, man listen to them. and I hours that is made up of saying this is so you know that shown you follow this guy stuff, I rather hall for like two years,

was John. We raise your talking about ducks, but some money he's not big needs. Now big jeffrey Epstein experts can you tell us the theory, Sean yeah, another, the link or the thing that they say is that I tell you this now. You did not tell me. Is that lane Maxwell the lady those just on trial as it goes, her dad was sought? That's what they sang starts to make some, gravy, hmm yeah, but you're you're not filmed in. Let me just fill in this we're so far off. This is now the shows about. Ladies and gentleman, this is now what it's about, in fact, Stu Miller from Creek outdoors is here and he's supposed to be flipping. A bobcat hide right now, where she's going to explain in one second, so bear with us we're going to get in appropriate subject matter, everything was a massage agent, How he served the messiah was, he would get prominent academics pilot,

missions, financial individuals into compromising situations, film them film them whatever he did and then later, when is he'll needed them to do or not do something k. They would say, oh and by the way we happen to have a very interesting video. You might not like to be out and, as the conspiracy theory goes, that was why Jeffrey Epstein to be silenced on that fateful night in his jail cell. While the guard slept and these security camera malfunctioned plausible.

Hmm anyway, although it looks very titillating, you could do really was to get into it, but he's also uncomfortable how off subject matter. This is to introduce yourself or brodie real, quick brodie's here, chester, the dive, astor which gestures, varied dying name has been hang around for like a hundred years. I feel like I feel like that might be why I like you so much cause he the only chester, I've ever known and pets are keeping it alive, though. Like dogs no records here, cecile retort, balsa we're coming wedding a little bit, I'm here, hi folks, yeah, we're also joined he's remote, but I still feel his presence. Sean weaver is here and he's going to hit us with the the latest installment of sean's docker report, which is one of my favorite things. We do what's up John was go now you, while just and they got off the road after two straight months, a film in duck lore, our new duquette and Joe

I am actually the reason I'm doing this remote. I got a little sick gallo ran down from being on the road that long, the utility come actually called was gone and they wanted to check if my water meter was broke because hadn't use any water my place for two months. Israel, is kind of a It's a wellness check on elano and the utility company has got me covered yeah dude, at least someone knows what I've gone also duck lore. The first episode is coming out february. Fifteenth, that's a access to your heart with me and John Paul, and I like it it's critical line on water sue cup, more zones that are becoming up yes, so first few episodes are going to be texas, steel

then Callaghan and me in north Dakota, yon s in nebraska and yourself in Michigan. So jump unkind all over the midwest good may learn a lot about dogs. Yep, learn a lot about doc. but god knows la about dark, John we're but Now, do it yourself, I'm stew miller. I I run a couple of different youtube channels I can creek outdoors is, is the one that that I'm here for and then I'm kind of a a trapper, more or less? So that's how I I to meet steve and yeah died, dabble in trapping and for handling so tell where everywhere from I'm from illinois southern eleanor always wants to read about it. So this is point filled, don't get nervous.

I have a problem with the. I have a real problem with people in southern illinois who think their southern, and I told you people ice fish in your state. You are not suffer I don't care where the mason dixon line is that's the thing there's lot of people. I sufficient right now called this is the perfect time for the uk be a southerner in a state where ice fishing is occurring. I disagree different I disagree stew. Says that he explained to me that there is so much decided that there is such a cultural divide between the greater chicago area and, unlike the agricultural segment of illinois. Might America's idea there is such a cultural? Five like a just as a huge cultural divide that that its, southern illinois to the south in mentality

rather than be associated with with the political option and ongoing in chicago made safeguard hundred percent. You guess five miles out chicago, then there s hey therefrom. Seller yeah like, by which I mean not chicago, not chicago, I fell in love with us. Do is videos because I would go unity, the organic way, I would be cures, but do something with fur handling like, for instance, last year, little ovary, while over thirteen fourteen months ago we gotta couple red fox is one morning and got the red foxes. I had a little Seventeen h m are with me we gotta Reading pair red boxes and outside I want again to hand tanned put up here, so now they adorn my daughter's. Actually, hang my daughter's bunk bed thing and she loves cool, but

and I wanted to like get em tan for myself and I used to put up red foxes and sell them when I was young, but was just kind of curious, but how to do the fee known all that kind of stuff different? I do prefer handling for a fur trade. And I would get typed in like how do you do X, Y and z and I'd wind up on your thing or how do you do x? Y you with a skunk and gonna, run up on your page, so venture sent you email and it's been within interact Ever since I yeah everyday, I asked him a question there. Now it's been it's saddam that we met were good top of that. Now here's what I wanted. We had a lot of stuff we got to cover often, but I want you to to ex laying grabbed the bobcat and explain what and done and what people can listen to. You now do like why

we did what we did and where we're at with it now art. So yesterday we took a bobcat that was skinned and in Steve you fleshed it up and we tubes can tell her what tubes get skin. So, basically, the way that furs are sold through the firm market is their tube skin and it's basically, where you're going to make a cut kind of on it's back and and you're going. kind of peel, the hide off very similar to like taken off a sock, basically yeah. Let's go put, you know and you're going to peel that that critter down and you're gonna end up with it. As you say, a tube of it's not going to be cut open. Where you know you, if you seen a like traditional pictures, you know you see where they they split. Split up value across the back, and the idea is that you're, like the incision being that, like when you're getting a dear, you may incision only up to his chin and any gotta can open hide. So then you would lay the hide or the pelt flat ways. This is.

It's not going to look like a bear rug when you're done no, no, it's going to be all altogether in as like a tubes, getting a cut just think about like this cut around and like the only you make through the hider around the ankles, though magic, cut around back cut around the rear ankle, go around it on each leg. and then you run a slit up to the anus and then holding comes off just like that. You're out of your threats, I did that bobcat, that's a small female bobcat, small theme above and then so. Actually, my fate, my prize possession. my favorite thing I owned used to be my buffalo school, but I found that I wrote a book about, but now is that we better not screwed up then so now after year after year, Lest it, then we put our flesh beam and we use that a flesh, a knife, the flesh, all that all the hut All the membrane and the fat and all the residual fat, so we got it just down to the skin and

Do we did that? We, we split the ears because you're going to stand up for yourself, so we Make sure you know that's something I never had done before. So we split the ears and then we put it on a board, so different quarters or sold different ways and with like I canine sue fox or coyoats, and your bob cats, all those are sold for out. So you can see the the presentation, the pelt somewhere other critters, like muskrat, minks and coon's they're all sold for in. So you know what why are we a southerner? speculating about that the other day who decided that when has this ever change, have you ever heard of changing back in the day they sold coons are actually flat, although you would split them up.

They're. The reason that I always been told is, you know, with with a bobcat say and a coyote you're you're using basically all of that. So you want to be able to visually see that that whole hide. You won't see the for. You won't see the for all of it. So, whereas, like an acount, you know we we boredom for in, but you also cut a window and inspection window and the greater will actually grade that and that's actually kind of prized part of that hide is what's in that inspection. When does he get a good general idea of the quality that hide through that inspection window? Take a muskrat for yeah. I remember selling muskrats at auction and they would still sort of open. They would banded up to look inside, it to look at the back for the is a muskrat not just stretch first sight out

I think a lot of it is so they can see the primus of the pelt god. no casino, muskrat, so muskrat, and what kind of talk pelt prime nest you're. The reason that we trap critters in the winners that whenever the the firs prime, the pelt his prime and if you are always because you do it's because you do it between big hunton an ice which is just as a multi might get bored No, it goes a long way away where this goes. Where these regulations in europe like four hundred years ago. The trapping Elation so where you would actually target prime critters and up so, if you ever heard the term a blue pelt, yep, okay, so blue pelt is essentially kind of an an primed pelt early season. Pelt.

Or or late. So that's a point out. I mean literally blue. It's blue, like if you ever kill a deer like an early. If you live in a state where you're allowed to like get Roland in september, something new skin that deer and it's like the leather is blue. It's blue! So that's what we call a blue pelt. and what happens is a lot of people. Assumption that temperature is what makes that for a prime and actually falls it. actually based more on daylight hours, which has a correlation to temperature. Obviously, so you know, as as winner progressed Further north, you are you're losing daylight quicker than south, so that the pelt will generally prime up quicker. so I, like the winner, tell they call the surest area which are sold hostess Yes, when Jani goes out does lottery and more ground as houseboats time later, people hit with ass little boy had all kinds of levying things.

When he is doing that day the year like peak primus. not necessarily know none at work, because there's other factors to so. You know, for instance, when are we talking with coon's? They have a running seas. Which is a kind of right now a couple weeks ago, and we're talking no kind of middle in January were on from so they will actually go from then the dandy dan to run no different than like a buck will. But what will happen is going from den den dan they'll start to get a patch and rub fur on the back and so become ball from squeeze into the whole from running around. So much from the it ended in exile, you ve seen, I was your leg. Did their robbed you you know where they actually, where their hair out, Reason and wholesome logs, it will become infected they will rub it down raul raw meat. From going

we may they get crazy. It's just no different than a deer and wrought you'll, see the answer I haven't seen. I've seen it more down. I've seen it worn down like raul, rawhide adobe scabbed over, and you know that obviously had not in perl. You want to trap. So you know even others season form joy, and then you know I gotta interrupt your quirks. I don't want to. I don't want to establish a rivalry between you and Seth, but something to know about that. When Seth was a little boy, he would go down to a fur buyer in in flesh and stretch raccoons thoughts than highschool aus job piecework, no hourly account no piecework piecework. These were in how they give you for one night was just like three or four bucks, more than stuff's worth now, anyway, yeah I was like I figured it was not. It was yeah, it didn't seem well at the time it seemed like a lot.

Oh ice appeal, log home logs for thirty five cents, a foot which at the time was pretty good. Our beheld in one kid be able to feed. One of my kids on that now was a good night. Then what was a good good night, flushing oh it all depends because we would sometimes we'd like get behind. Freeze a bunch hides. You know it with guys, with god bring him in either like in else like home, animal or they would bring him in skin now already just I just need to flesh and blood, but would you go down and skin the whole ones do yeah? Well, you would yeah yeah, so you get paid our fur like one that you had the skin flash and put up

yo. It was like. It was like two two or three bucks to skin it, two or three bucks to flush it and put it up. Some like that, and and but I mean we used to do- we should flash from dark dark. Some some what I mean just like started early in the morning style launched, I forgot light out and quit after your art. in what might you do in a day. You know the memory, I don't remember at all more than ten, oh yeah. They are more intent, yeah I do like ten or so in an evening after school. Sometimes more sometimes less all depends on what people were bringing in going to school, all greasy yeah Well, it was after school year, so anyways, I don't want you to annoy you. You seth have like a little thing now hour. You like feel like you're at odds, one almost away. You know you were you across from the ground You like we're all. I feel I feel your brother's you're sit across my former professional. It's a dying

like says very young, this is no longer devising highs, irish people looked like that, like, like you, know what different back there, I support encircle background of the about kids do naked. Give me distract no, going to hold a rubber hair off your tommo. I was trying to The claim that, like primacy, might be the winter solstice, but you're saying there's other factors that override that lot of other variables. Yeah coyotes, are you know their prime usually earlier in the season, they'll start to degrade fairly quickly. You know a lot depends on me like his hair, though hair wears out or yeah, depending on where they're at, if they're, in, like an open country, you know where they're not having to like push through a lot of brush and stuff they're going to stay. You know I am longer where, if you're out, you know west, where they're pushing through a bunch of sagebrush and different things like that, that

slowly, wear out that for no kid, oh yeah, there's a bunch of different variables. Yeah they tell about the one that has the beavers in the spring. I would draw what, but what sort of ends the season and beavers so beavers will actually start fighting, as they can well depending on, if you have ice or not, but they'll start fighting and they'll start biting each other, and so, whenever the beaver start, the bite marks on him very similar to muskrat to do the same thing whenever you start getting a beaver with a budget bite marks and chew, marks on him it's time to quit, and that might happen before the season, even in sulphur sure yeah yeah, no different than like, like our currencies and right now, you're you're gonna get comes at a rubbed during season there still, and so you gotta make that decision. to either release them or quit dropping or you know whatever so ill. Let them grown out a better pelt. Yeah you'll, see that you know cause especially on your bore. Coon's they'll have a big scar, patchouli right on the back. and it'll be from years and years and years really oh yeah.

It's all of it. You ll notice, it'll, be a darker pact right down the centre and that's all scars, and when your skin and flesh num, you ve gotta be kind of careful of two because it does not play all scar tissue is all Are you out of her on a lotta, you're older, big bores you'll, see that as it as the pelt dries you'll see that kind of brownish darker brown. He right on the back, and that's that's from him. Robin year after after you're gonna like squeezing incident just constantly. Yet they go from den cited in I didn't say they they will run themselves. I mean you'll, see him out in the daytime. They'll get real skinny and just just just like a buck in rut, they'll just run themselves stupid covering ground. It came back to the bobcat back, bobcat. So we got the bobcat and

put them over here. You know what were talking about his wife are in for out know that okay, yeah yeah. Well, that's what we got distracted on, though we put the bobcat on a board yesterday, because this bobcat is going to be. We want him for out and that's how they're sold, which you're going to tan it. It really doesn't matter cause on a bobcat. The buyers want to see they want to see the spots that your prime, you don't own a coyote, it's kind of back or the belly acount at the back, but on the bobcat they really want to see those spots. That's that's where the monies as spotted yet the spotted belly. And generally you know the clear more predominant spots. Are your hired dollar. First, I've heard guys say that if the belly like they'll go by how many fingers wide the belly strip is like, if you have a belly this, like forefingers, wide and nice bright, clear spots, that's a good one! Now but the one your hand right, there is too it's gotta to finger bell. Yadda yadda just got a pretty nice when all

and believable bobcat yeah. That was a nice one. That's like two hands wide belly. That was a big boy geez. If you look at them compared to like the western bobcats versus the eastern bobcats. You know these bobcats out here. A lot clearer are: are eastern bobcats are just almost brown yep, totally different trash cats- yeah not not worse. So gay tell by its own split board, don't explain all at so we boarded this cat on a split board can boredom on a solid border, split bored. I have a preference of a split board simply because with the split boards were going to flip, this add anyway, so we're going to have to manipulate them, and the splitboard just allows us to to remove the animal from the board just a little bit easier now, if, if if it needs to be, if it needs to be for out, why did we start it for in? Because we want to get that critter to dry

is that theirs and depending on who you talk to some guys, will what they call skip. The flip, which is they will ask, Is your skip the scale of what but we do they illustrate hunters. We need to call on our spencer and see if you can capture in an image a man we are simply not flipped. It skip the flip, there's a lotta customers, a picture would do with a bobcat. How do you know if you flip that are not so hard illustration, and I'm going to think about that? How would you capture that illustration and then it would say, skip the flip. but we're going to flip this one because at the recent area flip it as we want to make sure that hide is, is good and dry. And now I'm going to have any issues with a needle, moulding or drying issues. So we boarded this thing for an honest split board and we let it set out, depending on temperature and humanity of things like that twelve sixteen hours, but that one

because of because of our schedule day he's been sitting in the sun a little longer a little longer. So it's going to be a little bit more of a trick. Now, one day I called Stu- and I I was doing martin and I had to leave town I wasn't would be around to flip, so I didn't know the slogan skip the flip and I said: can I skip the flip and he said people do in something that you can get away with and that son of a bitch dried on air. Bored as I was I got to where I was thinking about how I was going to try to destroy the board because somehow get my. I wanted the martin more than the board and as I maybe I can split this board and crack and a little. this isn't some get it out of their then it after much trial and error. I eventually got that some bitch off but dried on the board. When I do him right forever overnight, then flip just falls off just so much is no different than they say you guys got

salted too, or had it all a little of borax. Of about that now fill errors are not fill you. I won't built on them yeah bill rose. A bill he'd know. Yet playing the borax little but Luba borax. So a lot of people assume you solve, for whatever reason, I guess is an old, I thing you saw and ride it if you're selling to the fore trade that actually you dont want to use salt reason being as the salt interacts, with the hide negatively, whereas whenever they actually bhutan it you know, has a negative impact on the hide. So we used bore acts which is twenty mule team bore exited. Detergent is all what it is, and it just helps us in areas that would be like under the arms that are not able have air circulate, quite as good these little borax just to help not the drawing process.

a trick, I learned on concrete outdoors that under the union it if you need some feedback on is where, live it's more human, so your topic you have a block borax, let you let it set out at turns knew a brick. And you just rub it on yeah, so you have a thing that looks like a bar soap, but it's a black borax and you rub it on asic minutes like shit works great yeah. You can't get that here. I don't for how long you let that stuff sit in your garage. It will not turn into a block. It's too arid put it in the bathroom with you take a shower. Let it collect a little bit moisture then stick it outside good idea addendum to your video, It needs a pause and, like you hit a certain button, if you're from the arid west see me my bathroom and the shower blackboard, so you think I'd be able to get a block of borax. If I did that, I really know what you're putting humidity

I was just going to have you send me a black thorax and I thought I'd get to where I live and dry out in the ballpark of blood turned back into powder. There's a lot of good tricks, there's not a situation where he'd salt it! No! No that the only situation if you're going to salted as if you are going to tan it, your If so, then, you're actually gonna use and you know there's a lot of different ways to tan, but essentially what the salt does is really remove all the oils from the hide and pull all the oils out, but the tanning process that you're going to do at home, vs attaining processes done commercially, is different, so the salt kind of has a negative impact on it. In that manners, I've heard people describe Bed cures viewed agree with this. I've heard people describe home tanning as more of a preservation method, then I got. Then then calico archival not finding the right words, but that that you're, not

quality yeah that that it's more like it's pretty temporary homes. And job like. Maybe you get ten years out of it, but you're not going to get out of it what you'd get out of it from a commercial tanneries? Disagree with that, Not necessarily, I think it's all it's all human love you put in a town in it. Where a lot of people will fail a lot to go into the breaking process, and the way that furs are tan, commercially they're able to be broken like like garment material. You know very soft, you know, but home tanning. You know you can brain tanned, something which is what the indians, though there was a museum yesterday and are still stuff around from dismembering internet without that was brain, does gonna. What else was about brain tanning? Is that it didn't on the lake moisture really be hard on it. You know It's all in how you like said how you

and a lot of the the brain tanning involves like a smoking process thick waterproof. It keep the bugs out of it. You know what your basically just replacing the natural tan ends in the hide, with some sort of synthetic material for the majority of your home tanning so like if you see orange bottle or the different ass I mean. There's a million ways acid tanning, there's some egg white in writing I mean you're, not methods do. Do you use, I bring in tan, and I use the the orange bottle hunters and trappers hide tanning formula. Those are my two favorite that I've had a lot of success with deer brains. Any brains, though I believe it's a lanolin, I believe, is what it is in the brains and there's only what all kinds of brains used. I've used everything everything I get my hands on. Near brains are the easiest you know acquire during the season, but there's this kind of

met- and I found it to be fairly accurate- were. Whatever animal you have basically their brain. sized accordingly to ten. There. I've heard that, and I found that to be fair so, which I just save everything up at the end. and mix it all together and big old bucket of brain bagel, buckler brains, a to see that big old bucket of brains don't drink that no, I It begs the bobcat okay cause. Then we gotta cover all facets of. I just want to get to the part where you're flipping it okay and tell people how not to tear it all right. So this things dried on the board for set number of hours, and it's a I don't know if you can hear it through the microphone, but it sounds almost like dry paper nedda. I know what you're going for you know you don't want it to be to drive with, can be hard to flit, but you also don't want it to be too. What were you? Gonna have mould issues, so we to that point right now. Are you know what brody I'd say? Seldom you really struck me

But I'm trying to put your critics I'm trying to get everything. I know out for a walk about that can be a wall. Hangar right, stew turned the ears. which is not something that most like trappers for the commercial market would do, but he turned the ears out of concern for my wall. Hanger bobcat, you better explain that aren't so we split the ears south, yes, split em, we split the ears, and traditionally anything from below the ears up in the commercial trade is not used so generally in a flashing process. Different things like that, we don't normally use that but since you're an attendant user for a wall hangar. We went ahead and split the ears and basically on a year of utmost critters, you have an inner ear kind of in an outer ear, the inner years? Actually, what has the cartilage and, unlike a coyote, say that's what makes the ears pronounced

stand up and in the outer skin has the fur on it that you see, but on a bobcat, there's fur on both sides, and you want to keep that so in order to let the tan solution penetrate, then this is just over my years of doing it If you actually separate the cartilage from the skin in the ear you're able at that, tan solution can penetrate up the ear and ideally save both sides of the ear, and by doing so you actually saved the cartilage as well. So after you get your ten pelt back your ears, You look like ears. Basically, don't look all all wrinkled european own kind of shrivelled up like a way to imagine, it is imagine that you're going to cut off your own ear and tan it because think about it. Really grab your ear. Flap right, you have skin and skin you'd have to get like.

you're going to eat, you know, you'd want to get in and split it open so that you are getting each side of the skin rope to keep your ear properly, tanned, up, yeah and you're, not just from my experience over the years. It seems like if you dont, split the ears generally, that interpol where the cartilage sets. It won't, take the tens Lucian very well, and then it will end up slip and the fertile slip which basically this means it it'll fall off. So Try to do you a favor here and in split the ears and hopefully, whenever it gets tanned, it'll they'll come out right. So we did that and now it's time to finally flip this, this crater, so I'm going to take it off the board or a couple of different ways to flip it, and basically, like I said, we've got this thing tube skin. So we will. Turn it out outward and we're gonna role. It kind of like you would turning a sock inside out so generally

You have a a lot more tendency to rip the hide if you start from the bottom and go up, but if you turn them from the nose in and kind of push the head in and roll it down. Generally, that's a safer bet as to not not ripping I'd or tearing the hide. You know alliance to go on how far you let this thing: dry, they're, just that fight window in in flipping the hides that you know you kind of need to hear, but I think what I think will be there: some critters that their hide, there's a lot easier sewing vocs have really thin skinned. There there's a big number trap, that I follow and he's skip the flip on foxes for years. You know they put him up a wire to so a lot of wire, so

it's just there's one way to do it and then there's one hundred other different ways to do it. You know: there's not really one set way, which is which is kind of cool, so independent he talked to in what part of the country it's what we're going to do it this way, because it's the way I've always done it and we're going to basically started the nose and we're gonna just kind of need that head down through the body and and pull it through and then we'll have the have the bobcat for out and you'll be able you'll see your cat, I saw Stu miller, coon creek outdoors, he's going to start turn and do it as loud as you can, because we're going to come often or other stuff and I'm up you'll billy. Here you doing it and I'll keep people posted. I what's goin on open rivets of you rip it do. The first can have going to the show's over. If you re, Stu, I do say you do yourself now, I read a few of my day. People get pesticide well I'll, be up

live it take. Someone else then reveal your secret here's someone so mad that they become apoplectic there'll. Be me: I've never heard of that. If stew ribs my bobcat all right, so we gotta touch off on You weren't, even here without some of this, where did where you going, I was going run a bathroom quite black ass, the graphic terms Your marriage, oh yeah, I'd better, stick around and the muscle officiating yeah, okay, no, we haven't, we haven't, found someone else. Okay, that. If you want to cause, I tell ya: oh yeah, I was reading up on what I gotta do very simple: to become a minister. Now you can tell me, but I listened to the podcast okay retold. The lesson. and I had in a guy, was point now was interested in you can get married. In montana, you get married by proxy

You could have a wedding. The you're, not at I do realise this Montana recognizes- was called a double proxy marriage, so both of us on beer- There's a married get you could get married here where no one shows up that yeah. Well, let me run it galaxies each says the guy rotten is interesting, but the milk- the? U S, military, so the guy active duty, military or to the front legs. How Yes, now seeing it's gotta be hard filled. You like it that there's a loud noise. In the background I mean, I think it's great. Normally, I would hate to buy new sort of stance and well out about two years it I'm worried by this house. Those legs inverted downright paper. Crinkle, like you, know, guiding this guy's activity. Military- and I didn't realize- is what makes it the military does not recognise engagements in turn,

like shuffling you around. They get sent somewhere else. Yeah. You believe our gaze lay. Does matter them? No! No! No! Their work has resigned enterprise bigger this little bit, true methods. So he and his woman we're getting a pc ass, a permanent change of station, where they be sent a different military bases, but both gone on. Their both gone deplore on deployment so neither of there and they got married anyway. Double proxy. Then they were able to move back to the same location in the military, recognise their union happy, ending, phil you guys ambient escape all the bullshit. Just have a party later Colleagues have, but you don't seem like your two warmed, that idea. Well, listen: it's yeah,

kells he's not gonna, be warned that idea, because every one knows little registries gone now we can do that arise, no. I think you get one goal we should advertised on the pockets while I boat We're gonna have to introduce single single got to that. The two vines do more girlfriends I know so we're not doing a registry thing, we're we're we're saying like if you, if you feel, if you feel like you, want to want to give us something just throw a little cash, because there ain't, no there's no registry out there is going to like knock wall out my house. I got it so you just like you just want money yeah You don't need china, I'd I'll need like kitchen aid mixers on like that in a hush. Is, kills it you're going to listen to this progress in here you throw her under the bus so savagely like that. No, she is aren't she's totally on board, it's no! I I was going about the the double proxy all that yeah. She ain't like that: yeah, okay, yeah in florida right now,

we're, not my pause and given up date. All the ok we give up. Bobcat update like that. You know. She's about my fur. Brush refer com is right. Now he's the. When can I can, I see ever met Oh, you want to speak while we're speaking to updates. I just want out there listeners that the kayak is sold. So oh no help tell about what the guy that bought it gave us, oh yeah, so the the guy that bought the kayak. I shall I forget his name, man, I'll, look it up and did you have a lot of people want the guy yeah and the the guy that bought the kayak was his active duty. Terry's ease up at station up in great falls and he gave Stephen I a hundred and five millimeter shell casings, which my son is interests. Have were fired on a deployment and I think you said light

Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria,. when you do that for it'd be like a hell of an ashtray, or so I got I dunno what I'm gonna do with my sweet here comes the front legs. Oh, is he doing the front legs? Don't care bobcat has now revealed. We can see the hide, the beautifully speak ears and he is trying to do the final thing of get the legs inverted, which is tough because you left them so long whenever you skinned them, so we're trying to pull them through, I loved out into long well dressed limousine a wall hangar and of a commercial trade bobcat is very exciting in florida see I dunno what the weather is. I want to cover up the news bit, but the problem is this: this is going to release right away. It's going to be a couple of days, so the cold, now might be over, but there was a national colds nap still going on right now and.

in florida there they really their releasing warnings about. Go on as falling from trees, so floored is full of it. I got an invasive gotta go on a problem. We actually add some of their want of fat. Kevin gillespie made us aguano fat cookies, which wonderful, like sugar, cookies or the iguana fat in a guy wrote in how these four no is far from trees and get stuff. And it was land around on roads and sidewalks. We have bunch pictures of just iguanas fell from outer space. Layin around and he's kind of warning about. If there's like an ethical dilemma to picking up an inner to as you go on as they are in such a compromise position, kind of like shootin caribou in a river like shoe caribou, whatever shooting fish in a barrel now

where did also think about whether or not this falls under the umbrella of jacket. I feel that does not what you think gesture No, it's more of an ethics thing. Just moral dilemma which korean? What is she right up there trafficking is a jungle is a technical. Like I said it's a moral dilemma, I think a few new how good that fat was for making cookies and if you like, eaten by the hand, They want a motto there, but this guy his moral dilemmas like some of these are too small to eat. So he does more damage He like he doesn't want to damage resource. He doesn't like killin things that he doesn't eat. You know so so he's weighing out. Do I serve the the goal of eliminating the aguano from Florida, or do I serve my personal ethic, which is don't, kill someone agony which trumps, which may

and I mean it, sounds like these guys really have a problem. You clear what the problem is generating a boy. Do a lot of berwin, unlike see walls and I was foundations and they do yeah, that's the bear is now. Biological issue. I don't think so. May I like their eaten native bird eggs and stuff like that. That I'd that I know of and you think they think they if they are not here and I believe in something native, that's possible, but I what I've heard a lot as lake they're, doing damage to structures. Shit like that, we have a headline from his cold weather, could bring frozen iguanas this weekend issues just like a picture of some iguanas just taken a quick nap.

May I think, like if you take the one you're going to eat, you know, do a little little. Both there I I would think so man, but here's a I could out. Let's say I really develop taste for glonass downer guy like a little yard and now now give me a big battle on, and I was watching some small ones lurking around I knew that about a lot. What their life expectancy is by knew that they'd get big and then I'd have like I've never eaten the ago. I will eat at any rate? Was that loved it? I could a situation where one would fall, from a tree, a little one would fall from a tree and I would resuscitate it and warm it up in order to grow it big because I loved iguana meat is not in not go out and do what I'm supposed to do, which is kill it here's the thing out of its legal or not. Why don't you just make wanna cage. Take those iguanas star,

feed must arm raise no yourself. It's like getting the wild it's sort, a real artist, remembered a real world version of what I'm talking about. Not that is the real world, but a personal version. You know how lake trout got into yellowstone lake and started a what were the real hard on cots, not more georgiana, yellowstone, cutthroat, okay, so Someone thought a good idea to let some late trout go in yellow, so lake, which is any also national park in, is the head of the else on river, and it was, there was a very detriment to the native cut throat, the east slop, cots cracked I believe it was the yellow, the yellowstone, the actual yellowstone throat, which is like a more of a pumpkin colored orangist yellowish cutthroat got there. we made it that you were not allowed to turn back alive

later there was a mandatory kills situation. Note like like catch him, release became illegal. it might still be. Today. I dunno I had a friend I want to tell what his name is I'll tell you. I don't want to his last name, because he was a lawbreaker. His name was mike and mike would always go in fish there and he like he made like smoke lake trout, he made law. late droughts, susie roles is big time. Indeed, lake trout, he would turn back the small ones and would be in one wanna hit it too hard and he was very nervous about what he called damaging the resource and just wasn't by and the whole thing about, he was like. I love those fish. I hope they stay there forever. Yeah gonna. I mean in an area like that. Man, though, like there's, not many places in the world that have yellowstone cutthroat and there are a lot of places in the world that have lake trout,

Like you, gotta get him out of there. I know it's almost impossible, but like they, they ve made some progress here, so to let you know your idea about how you're going to keep them and fat them up yeah. I was saying I dunno if it's legal or not no well corinne, and she just pointed out here that you would be in violation of law and if so, if, if you know everybody has the joy of cooking in there, the cookbook, the joy of cooking it. I have one, that's so old, there's information in it about how to fatten a possum really now that you've caught a possum and how to fatten it and like put it on a good diet for consumption, really not in the Let us not well that's good! I wore now. It's not in there is pretty awesomely. Have our suggestions, I like a k. A little dinky little danger falls out of the tree. You're trying to do the right

the thing by law, and you said yourself while I feel bad, letting it back out and forced to kill it. It's not big enough to eat. I'm going to warm up resuscitate him. Pin him and fatten him, which is legal turns out so Florida has a list of like stop. You can't have its floored is prohibited species list and it has- sixteen new, and it had recently added see thirteen new high risk non native, reptiles, I'm allowed to have in your possession the argentine in black and white t goose. What the hell is that they're like monitor lizards. I think you're, not to have a t go you look at our own, can have one of those in florida. You can't have a greener wanna. You can't have a nile monitor, lizard, you cannot,

a burmese python, which is a big issue, the gun george them yeah, they look like a monitor, lizard their put their pretty big. You cannot have a reticulated python you cannot have a green anaconda. Ah I mean it makes sense. You know that's how it can, I got there. All of them can survive in florida. I was years ago in south america anime and as with a mcu, she, a guy who is maku Shi from the mcu she tribe and we were standing there. Looking at a green anaconda was pipe down fourteen fifteen feet long this year bullet ant time. No, nope different time. He was telling me I wanted to. It was just sitting there. I mean you could walk right up to it and I was asking

Is it okay if we kind of like jab it with a stick to see what it does right and he was pointing out to me like they're in their mythology. He was saying if I touch that anaconda with the limb of my bow, that will die a very painful death that takes about forty five minutes, but you can touch it with another stick and that's fine, but you can't touch it with a bowl them just a bowling or is it what was it like weapon? No, he said if I touch it with my, call them, they will kill it very painful. Really. Why we're here there's like a limit, I mean it was just part of their mythology and it like a limit to how much we could communicate about it, but I gathered that much can't touch them with a bow. Limb can't touch a green anaconda with the bowl him, you didn't say,

Try it now say like polish. I just thought that was a great little. You know a great little thing. The oh did you get. One leg Oh yeah still got one leg is close, get their leg, the bobcat is nearly inverted. Those can be exciting. Who goes back onto the board. However, here's another ethics question This is this is this seems, like others, question, but it ends up being a practical question. This guy works for a small town police department in the greater yellowstone ecosystem region. And his he mentions that they are at the time this riding in an

ongoing, see w de management hot air w p. He sang the the safe azure game agency is allowing antlered box to be harvested on this hunt lot of this gas. By it's believe. The hunt should be since its method, lower the population slow the spread of sea w DE he's like. Why is it that you can kill box is see that you, because it does because if you want to lower a deer population, the way to lower his killing does like box doesn't like have a long killing box doesn't have a long term impact on deer numbers. Killing does does, because you kill her and you kill every baby that she'll ever have. I would point out, is generally was given understanding. This there's quite a bit of data that suggested

cwd is more readily transmitted by box. They move around a bunch, they travel to them. Yet I think there's a couple reasons that a lot that they want any deer eliminated right and to convince people that hunt white tales in february in Montana or january. You know. It might be inclined to sweeten the deal yeah. Well, let me get a buck and then I remember some stuff with the dog. Looking at the the with all the thickness Let's see diabetes like coal that little bit worthy information changes so fast, it's hard to keep hip to white like what's actually the current sort of vat. academic consensus, but at the time it was young box dispersed more. They like young bucks, laughter population dispersed, their distances and were more likely to be bringing see w d in two introducing see w de chronic ways and is

he's into new heard groups. I read some reason lie about that, though, where in a study where they studied a certain amount of- let's say they studied fifteen boxing in when he knows that those travelling in a fight I have miles and the bucks were traveling like six miles on average. So wasn't a crazy difference between the two, but once did it again, though, I just saying that the like, done studies. I was reading a recent study where they took us set number. In studying them, how far they go and the distance between how far the does travel and the distance between how far the bucks traveled was not that difference huh. But that was just one article. So on

he has got up because got the appetite for one more on to more etiquette to more ethics advocates people looking for feedback sure your dog kills a dear. What, then, what then my don't kill dear, not tomorrow, or this guy. This guy was asking like you know she d I urge you to do whatever I think you did the right thing. He said he called the the local authorities, the game warden, which is a good thing to do and then from there. You know this is the wording, determine it, did not have seat of witches. You can't really necessarily The latter has it so I'm not quite sure there but like well, because it in this case the warden, did a little necropsies and saw that it had to Boston legs than that

why the dog is able to get a hold of it and that's why it was so it'd be like water, the ice yeah. That's why it looks sick, yet looks like where the eyes ahead cbd and then bro two legs from a car hitting, it was what this guy seems to be trying to do is is like say what his dog did is not like: there's not a problem with it like it's what it seems to be getting at. Well, I mean also you don't want your dogs, obviously killing deer, but once in a blue moon, you just never know what's going to happen so think called the warden and then, if this dear, had to broke legs is also asking. What should I do with the meat and would save the much taken eat it eat it, but if it's got to be can my eggs. You might want to check for infection and stuff. First, it is well. You know I would say so

It is an interesting conundrum because a lot of times you're on public land you're supposed to have your dog under control. So if you're on public land somewhere in your dog kills a deer, you might mean You might find whether you self report or someone else reports that your ass might be in trouble at the state. There are places where, if you're out, hunting deer- and you see a dog chasing deer, you can shoot the dog. I think yeah there's definitely places like the. Yeah. It's pretty easy to train your dog to not mess with deer. You know I've had a couple of bird dogs and you can train him just not pay attention to those deer. When our dog chases, a deer that comes back, no one is in trouble, yeah look. I can't help itself yep

It's like it's like. I know I did like. I did it. I know I shouldn't have done it and they come back like they know, they're going to get in trouble, but they just couldn't help themselves yep. So I think the proper etiquette is just to train your dog not mess with deer, but if it does, I think the pino salvage do sure will be do call you call your game more than that first step. If you deal with any that stuff, there's not a one, This guy's right in the scholars, they Virginia, where allowed to hunt turkey's rifle in the spring, lively rifles to be outlawed. like it isn't maryland in most states. You can't quite say most states is a lot of states where you kill a deer. Turkey with a rifle in the fall he's got friends that killed turkeys at two hundred yards of the varmint rifle setups. When you think about that, I just don't.

Where's the fun. I just want to say this: I'm not talking about laws, not laws, and all that spring turkeys is meant to be something you do with a shotgun. There's there's a purpose to the calling to getting them to come in, Yes, then, we used a bushwhack turkey. Bring on these or any reason this year. Turkey, with a rifle in the spring one day is like its dane. libraries waking, am I a camel out in the woods, make turkey noises sittin against trees there trying to sit close trying to because the turkeys When I was very young, you could Han I'm pretty sure you could hide turkey's with a rifle and pennsylvania and the spring or really really. I know you can and they forged it a well, especially with decoys getting better and better every year degree student yeah. I like I look at my own,

quite good, yeah cause you're going in the qualifies out hunting deer and had a turkey tag. My pocket price, you know, yeah, I think, is different and and what what's interesting people people to understand here is that in a loud in states where you are allowed to kill turkey's in the fall with the rifle your often to kill females right. Yes, but They're, also not I mean they're spending time on those open areas in the fall, but I feel like spring. It's predictable. You know those birds are going to be out on strike zones and be out and open. So that's like another thing that just makes it easier picking in those bring a shoot 'em I don't I don't personally like that, or I just think if you're like sitting there in your truck and there's a turkey one hundred and fifty it's way out in the field and you decided to take a couple of rips at it with your twenty two to fifty. It's like, I dunno. It feels very dangerous to me

cause you don't know if there's some camel up dude and his kids sitting back there, yep yep, yep yep takes the fun right out of that spring turkey hunt too. Well, I heard a story, one time I believe the story I heard that in it so this time, when florida you're allowed to hunt turkey's in the spring of the rifle guy and. A lot of turkey hunters felt that just was not a good idea, yup flat country guy. Yet people out in camel with decoys, like like a safety issue enable went to that that they they took the time to go to the gun community and be like this is not like. This is a safety turkey issue. Let's not make this like a gun, gun right issue the safety, turkey issue and it got turned into a like gun right on rights. Thank governor of gun right.

You when they were then I've. Ever someone tell me who is on the side of not being held I have four hunt turkeys that they always felt a little bit disappointed that they couldn't get it framed outside of that the discussion about it. You know that it was more like I just don't wanna get shot. Yeah there is a centerfire rifle yet there is that in one video that went viral couple of years ago with that the two irish two young, guys turkey hunting and they were filming it and I think they were working a bird on the edge of a big opening and in the footage you to see like the all the turkey picked up, someone shot with like a two forty three, their decoy and they were on the opposite end and it blew into the tree next to him and bark went flying and everything really immediately jumped up. It was couple yours go when it went viral, but I'm sure you can find it on you too, but it was guy shootin at a deeper centre, fire rifle and they were if he would have been a foot or even six inches offset. He wouldn't hit one of those guys in normal

so yeah I've seen videos like that guy shooting a goose decoys shot. He might have seen something like that, but shooting at choose goose decoys of centerfire rifles, just like you know totally illegally yeah totally is nowhere. You're allowed to do that yeah, well new zealand, you can do that. I kill the yeah. I kill canada goose in new zealand, with a seven millimeter ram, mag, oh yeah there, like a great the navigator, that's a good shot out one of shut. I brought you ready for your book report. One has bobcat already be bordered. I wish we had our first home with us man, snap. It you've got more room over there, snap, a real hard settle for snap at heart, a couple of times a year. Every book report, brodie yeah, my article report and so there's been a push to delist grizzlies from the endangered species.

ah from both montana governor urging forte, an wyoming governor mart gordon so too. Some background Firstly, bears are put on the usa in thank nineteen, seventy six, so that there is like Fifty seven lasted as through threatened, not not endanger yeah. There's. at one hundred and fifty of them left in the seventies hundred and thirty six in the g y E, with the the thing that Steve hates saying, oh I dunno somewhat ok, you're, ok with a greater yellowstone ecosystem; ok, a little bit! Ok anyway, fast forward to current times and the s it's very right like minimum is seven hundred anew Population study model that why arming use places a mole,

a thousand, but either way the recovery goal was. I believe, five hundred bears in the greater yellowstone ecosystem, which was met now twenty years ago or so so there's there's benes often on pushes to get them off the list. why arming governor gordon, is petitioning the: u s fish and wildlife service to get them removed. Again, I said same things going on in here: montana, and you know that it's it is back and forth fight that never seems to an oil. It doesn't it. It is nonstop and I was interviewed for an article four fox news, digital and end. Apparently they think I'm a grizzly bear expert,

they also interviewed the wyoming governor's wyoming governor Gordon was quoted pretty heavily in the article and they quoted where it is her name. Andrey is a cardi from a center for biological diversity. They always have names. I think that you know that that make him sound like there's something other than that, what they are, which is like you know, animal rights, anti hunting group and the most interesting thing. I think she said, while she said a couple of things that are interesting There is no science to back the claim that grizzlies no longer need protection, meaning there was an hour see what that means. I don't know, but I mean there's plenty of science because their way past the stated recovery goals in it. That's such a subjective statement to leisure to herd. Grizzlies will always need protection. After what we I could be everywhere. And she also.

says, of course, and this outrageous request from my wyoming's governor is the latest attack on animals like grizzly, bears by states that see them as little more than targets for trophy hunters come on in their pushpins. Do I brought them in You know the it is like absolutely untrue. Here's we, Recently. Tell I rode up at the new york times about is the last time they are trying to do yeah the last thing the states are going to do. That's one thing: the state wyoming and montana are not going to lobby their asses off for decades. State management of grizzlies back in order to then really quickly I'm all and get embedded in the background of endangers. The whole point is trying to get em recovered and off the lives right back in the I do not like the like robin the coup. The minute I can get them off the list, I'm gonna, put back on the list again and let's say,

dickie, wyoming or mine montana? Let what say they get taken off the list and end a hunting season gets upset, the number they're gonna be so careful with a number of tag said they issue for these bears. That's it's gonna have absolutely euro impact on the lake. The johnny lags the last go around yummy tags, Idaho's gonna issue, one all right tat. Jack wyoming were. Why think was a total of low twenties maybe in montana. I thought at the time- and I don't like this different administration now, so I think we'd have a different approach. I thought was a little bit chicken shit, yeah and, and you know, in a decision that was coming from people who I admire just like an area where I disagreed with them. They were gonna, sit out yet obviously sitting it out because they didn't want away into the right. They don't want to

into the social yeah. I respected wyoming fish and game for how ages I mean they knew was gonna there and take a lot of flak and heat for everything, and I think that a great job and how they handled it. Oh, I add in that bump me out that after BP gonna, but that, basically that yes to the article here is, and we said this before the point of the endangered species list is not to keep them on the list forever. It stood rock. for them get them off the list turn over management to the states, and these groups like this is used. Lawsuits stood like postpone things and delay things and keep a marvellous young, potentially forever that's where rat Montana and wyoming are trying to and maintain its the north and continental divide population that they're trying to get de list yom. What

of having them. With this and relax a week, we ve covered the dickens out of this. what's happening around The dealer staying around wolf delisting is, You have to situations where we had speedy it were legitimately imperilled, like walls are legitimately imperilled at a time grizzlies were legitimately imperilled, and they needed at that that they, they needed protections and they put protections in place and you in in er the different, the old stakeholders and has come to governor like okay. What does recovery look like? and people agree. I like, while we had this many of this, that may that living this may places. We would accept that that was like, recalled at which will move on to the next problem. Right. have these people really collect get used to there being no hunting for these animals and later one recovery object.

you're mad in hunting might be resumed, people just they get where they just cannot accept that yeah, and so The way these things get held up in court. No one comes and argues that there aren't Oh, like no one's gonna, argue courted court. There aren't enough of them. They're can argue in court, weird little, you like technical issue now, be like all you did. You did you did a study, but did you consider the potential? impacts of white bark, pine, blister rust, Yeah, you very fully concern the impacts whereby buzzer us so then a judge its eyes at its eyes, a judge mozilla that eyes winds up in that district. Miserable and throughout the whole thing, there are based on a technical. They do not. They never arguing the main point yeah.

And another thing that gonna never comes up. Is that there's like like take the greater yellowstone ecosystem, like you can't have bears every grizzlies everywhere, there's only so many places that can support them and so in the g. Why there's like a fine, a number of grizzlies that that place can support, and then they start moving out until like that urban were wild interface, like Jim here in bozeman, and they get in trouble and then they get shot forgettin in a dumb stir. There's like a carrying capacity there you can't have bears running around in golden gate park is yet you say grizzlies. I wish they read. sure by have a high tower. It is not possible, but I do the other partners to gets really technical is. Is people Is that of sand like that like, if you really want

the entirety of grizzly bear range. The entirety of grizzly bear ranges basin the one hundredth meridian and westward like everything yeah if you're, if you're like west of the big bend in the missouri and you're in grizzly, bear habitat, so pure like that really plausible, that route a cover, bears across the entirety of the american west. So let's pick adequate areas where they could be. Simply be am one of those areas is full. You d lists the area and people rise using their eyes, attacking that logic where we can recover merv were, but you don't always point up elderly recovered across what Fourteen percent of their native range, how come Is it about Elk? recovered in illinois, but you can maneater gap Why would someone not say we have recovered elk across the entirety of the range you should be allowed to hunt out there? They should be an endangered species in illinois by their lodge

It should be that no one in Utah should be one hundred elk because Illinois doesn't have them yet yep hated hire us to do these arguments. I, like the brody, gets on there such a that that, from doing these book reports of stuff that you get to go on the news and talk about it, yeah man, it was fun, but you know what bugs me is that they never interviewed dam biologists for these articles like a from the: u s, fish and wildlife service or from a state game agency as you pointed out to a dead said he should talk to some of those people. Did you say like how you should talk to me? You should talk to them. I said I am not a grizzly. Bear expert: I have an opinion. You should talk to a grizzly, bear yea. It might be as that they're not going to get a fiery right like a fiery opinion, I have other like a grizzly expert is gonna, give a fiery again.

They always have to be careful what they say they are to get a raging hot, had like brody hundreds bro, smart smoke, diseases, right. John. You ready. You bet, Sean's doc report. Yeah. You know you haven't assignment you gotta. We gave in an assignment right, yeah, Last last time we did a duck report. You had brought up the you it age, demographics, to be discussed, yeah like what's old, ass doc and you had a reference to a santo crane you'd shot when you're in texas that you said you believed, was seventeen years old and to be fair, I called doktor Chris. live from delta waterfowl about this because age demographics gets pretty complex

and there's a lot to it. But for starters he told me to go. Look at the: u s! Gs! Website they have a, they have a tool called the longevity records of north american birds and This tool allows you to look up all the all the band reporting and the age of those birds that are reported, and it's not just waterfowl its kind, everything it scare snow bindings and sparrows. You name it pretty much anything they can report. On how old some these birds live. It's on their fur exam I did look up a snow bunting which, by the way the oldest one reported was eight years and nine months old anyway, I also went ahead and looked up sandhill crane, since you had referenced shewn one seventeen years,

old, the oldest sandhill crane, was thirty seven years and three months old. and It is sold and it was mandolin older than surf, not weigh orbit, How first grade how its death was born? How old can parrots live? I'm just about birds and general get a. I remember. I had a girlfriend whose mom had a grey mom had a grey prayer and she had lay have a will about what will happen. The pair after, last forever, but that's living in a cage, yeah yeah this tell everywhere this crazy man. What happened to this crane is sad, says bandit and floor in nineteen eighty two and what finally got it was a got hit by a car, and we can't scan your very own from the bar at the bar or half the apologies. Kurds range you boy, though

I know everyone talks about hitting dear in wisconsin. Nobody talks about hidden, sandel cranes, thirty seven years old, super all So then I went ahead and looked up. I went real down the rabbit whole. Looking up pretty much every species, I could looked up like blue geese and snow geese which all this. Blue goose was thirty years old name minds. All this mean, Howard was twenty seven years and seven months. This is that off banding data to europe so these are all, and chris nickolay did bring this up as well all the These are based on either fowl.

dad or hunter harvest shot and removed bands? These are not recapture data, so nick lies had birds where they catch her men rocket nets. You know thirty thirty, five years later and their their put in third or fourth set of bans on birds that are still alive yet, like all these birds were look at all these ages, like this mallard, its twenty said, almost twenty eight years of lesser snow, its. eighty, seven and a half years the thanks. It arm. they die of old age yeah these these ones died of getting shot so there's learned we oughta got banned in sketch. You wanna got shot in cuba, twenty three years later, that's crazy! It's pretty cool by, like castro

don't look like a giant real life story. mayo look at a level that you see a deer in a dark, and you have so much more empathy for a deer you know I mean it's got eyes: ash, isn't everything there like? You could fit seven dear lives inside of a duck debts, your look. You want to see a dark out upon you don't think like or there's something is twenty five years old, no definite wild turkey long time, jellia wilder is, I do like you to give it because too well to be fair. though, where these numbers are these ages really become wild is when you start calculating what the average age of waterfowl. Is like when you get down. What's actually probably gonna have happen to actual so numbers that doktor nicholls

had given me to work with, are seventy four at survival rate year over year on drake, mallards and sixties, sixty percent on hen mallards, those are not exact numbers but they're close, and they flesh out the thought experiment here and I'll also come back to that of. Why there's a difference between drake and hen survivor right. But if so, if you start with a hundred of each, you know you're one you get down seventy dregs and sixty hands by year to europe. Forty nine dregs in thirty six hens, so now you're below fifty half dead. So there's your average age, your average age, Fer, a dock is two years for it. mallard and not even two years for an mallard, so it makes twenty. Seven year old, mallard thou much more impressive.

the hans live shorter because they just are they getting so beat up from. You know, yeah, that's what I was wondering is why hans I was thinking, maybe because of their sitting on nests and getting eaten while they on NASA, yep, it's allow shiners ain't, never the average, then yeah. average age. Man is twenty seven years belgian, the attrition rate of friends either a lot of Isn't that if you're, that Malik made it that way, seven years, how many friends have come and gone yeah? How is it that, like do you remember seeing county almanac of his in and county all mac. When he's doing this stuff with the chickadees, like he's, like catching a chickadee aldo leopold, this isn't the twenties he's at catching chickadees little by little chickadee trap, music, putting a band chickadees and the eldest die, but there's one

never makes a mistake and he gets a year after year after year after year, at the same bird feeder, that part of the bodies that everyone else's gets dusted, Madame how you'd like he does and he's a very special I wonder what the odometer would be on a twenty seven year old mallard, all the miles he's put sean as a good one for your book report, dude, okay, I'll sector, you know, there's a some real cool gps work being done by a group called osborne labs allah see what the highest odometer they've got on a gps. Tracker is right now because you have to be really cool so where that survival rate get even more nuanced ray is that that's based on

pretty much a bird going from your wonder year, two and then your duty or three so to speak. That's not counting when they're in the egg or even once, they ve hatched and are going through. You know the whole process of grown up to be old enough to fly I so Chris gave me some even more staggering numbers that make you wonder how we even have any ducts to hunt to begin with, like how there's any around at all yeah. It's amazing that there's even ducks so right now a good nest. Success is point one five or fifteen percent, so fifteen eggs, even ever hatch out of a hundred eggs, lead

Who then, from then from where I was doing, is not catching enough, raccoons, our yeah. So that's that's the real end of the story here. So a fifty nine eggs, hatch, half of those we'll die before they ever get to old enough Why would she brings you down to seven and a half ducks? but not of a hundred eggs. They hit the ground and then forty percent won't make it through that first fall roughly, so you get too about. After that, first fall. You got about three ducks out of a hundred eggs. Fyodor then, some dark where I live than twenty five years, so so our circle back to hannan, drake survival rate thing and we are at a kind of touched on it by

the reason that hands have a lower survival rate. Then drakes Specially right now is ness predation. If drinks you know, drakestail have to go sit in grassland that I have to risk roy it's getting jumped on on a nest yeah. He can hang it all out in the middle of some big ass lake, hmm exactly and what that's led to the last. thirty or forty years. They really noticed it since the late nineteen eighties is we ve seen a population wide change in the sex ratio. We have more drakes than hands and not by just a little bit. In the late nineteenth eighties pen. Tails were about one point, two drakes for everyone and now there are four and a half tricks to every hand.

So we're at a hen, shortage and drake surplus by a lot. that's, been gone over how long, while it's it's going up every year But it's been really noticeable incline since the late nineteen. Eighty, today and they relate that'll loafer prices down Waterfowl definitely points to me so predators. right: yeah, there's a turkey biologist that we had on the show. One time did. You know he felt thou very interesting argument is looking at fur prices relative to predation of bird. That's kind of when you got out of the professional trapping game at one and the lady I set my last trap for. so now I set my last trap for commercial purposes and nineteen ninety four, but it was dismal by

yep ten years earlier, it had been really something, but also in ten years old. Another thing Chris had brought up there like north Dakota hadn't, even described raccoons living there till the nineteen fifties, and now they're everywhere yeah. So it's interesting. What will act more on that in a nother docker port cause. I there's so much interesting information about the sex ratio and pred predation on nes and all that, but the the age disparities are wild, how you can have a thirty year old or thirty three year old, canada goose, but then you know allow I will never even make it out of the nest in Barry lopez's book arctic dreams, he's with the pilot and they're doing some polar bear, work and they're talking about how old a polar bear can get, they can get pretty old and he mentions how the biology

says to him if it doesn't make any mistakes in which That's not the do you like the he hurried right, So do you think about the? Does it make any mistakes they never messes up is never like. Hey that looks like a real duck. Emails moving shy of a question for you do that researchers, who did that. Is there anything about that? Like no balling or turning in, and he like data separation of how many hands to drake's cause of the drakes like since the drakes are so rough on hands. Usually when they're mating, like with that many drakes to low hand, ratio could actually start killing more hands and lower that and that separation that gaps gonna widen is anything. Research? You know, I don't know, I don't think there's any talk about. I dont think drakes I mean I guess I can't speak for biologists, but I dont think

kill enough hands to have? Ok, you don't get like a treasure or now it's definitely a definitely a habitat and predation story. You know you buy a dozen or six pack decoys, it's like mostly drakes, it's a guy Now. That's actually accurate that someone, Why do they ever doing that by? I thought, you'd feel more value, paint or just a contrast thing easy for the ducks to see the drakes I dunno I dunno either are they're, probably just doing it, because we like looking at the pretty decoys right, That's true so good on John yeah, now, let's What's in exile or what are you working on while I think would die, more into the the predator story. Some of the peerless darn thing I ran predator, which are now, but

You get into that. Will little bit predation yep. Definitely I'm ready for it and what stronger slowly transitions into talking to you? Okay, he wants the hung into it. Can't wait check this one out. We were talking on a previous episodes about mistaken song lyrics when you all your life, you think they're saying one thing and you realize you're saying something else There's a soldering heard. Her does damson logging in Messina who's that Kenny Logan's and about a candy lords. You said Looks like him one time we own hair is long. Also, the logging in Messina catalogues would have weird grew. He had gone for wild dunes movies, movie the main songs and movies. Yeah footloose was the one with pilots, and top gun. So they are sancho danny song and in the soil, and they say pisces if they get into astronomy pisces

virgo rising as a very good sign. This got all you say and price of furs rising. very good side I like when this dude wrote in the signed off with negative temps here in west michigan megan ice? yeah. Okay, where do we get a new big old thing about where trappers and predator hunters are having a versus how hunters in Virginia are going to put that on hold? That's very interesting to me, though, inviting hunter, infighting and unlikely enemies were going to cover this very soon. How trappers and predator owners are in an how on earth are all at each other's throats, he cannibalism. What's do not see it. I hound hunt anna trap

Stu aids himself stood, there is a rich If the inquiry we're going to cover it, but I want to do real, quick one colorado, who seems like every other day is banning trying to ban something this time. There are trying their eighteenth time ban. Why and so far there is throwing light. That's the thing man they lay didn't arizona include jaguar when they tried that they always got it in an animal that you can't hunt anyway, because people just because they're standing out in front of a whole foods getting signatures for these things, yep right I, like your come solely at sea, a wild animal three years, long and they like, when you sign our petition. then right, and they want to sweeten the pot so like in band links, honey cause he's like Jesus. I came through killing links yeah, but you can't kill links in colorado, but they're going to ban it yup lest I don't know yet in arizona like an

local jaguars, by the way that you can't go jaguars but the thought that yeah, I think it is as like it as Sweden's the pot. You know the great thing about this one. Is it didn't get dragged out over a long period of time like came up and WHAM o got rejected, right away is great Chrome is point now: did a guy named veni from jersey, wrote in which makes at the second veni to ever have anything to do with his pockets. So this point we had to venus ball new jersey mentioned on the show and not a cat, lady from new jersey. So yeah that bill's over it'll come up again yeah. I just like here's the thing man, here's the thing. This is all I want in the world. I want there to be a. I want the environment to be extremely clean, cleaner,

clean water, healthy wildlife. I don't want to. I want to leave as much of it as pristine as humanly possible, even to the point where we have to make sacrifices. I want the earth to be the that lets us keep the country. I want this, a mere america to be full of pristine wild places full of animals that we have access to as renewable resources is not that complicated. If you want to help cats help habitat Yeah, if you want to help the humming links, are in colorado right now. Our rights, not very many secure, links, habitat yeah well as habitat links, habitats? What what there is in colorado is doing. It's great. You know like wilder federally protected wilderness areas, you know, may keep it secure, keep it

that will be the thing if you want links in colorado the thing that will make it there's links in colorado. Is it there's habitat coonskin quit scheme pogo, endorses and others. Here I can hear people type in already scares are. Yours is a battle over those gears and big horns: Gavin jackson, german right now, if you want the links to be fine, make it that there's a shit load of links, habitat and then all your problems will be solved. It won't be because someone who can anyways were too If you're missing the point, the rights do.

How in the sam hill, because here's the thing here's my biggest question for you- here's my excuse for becoming a trapper. I was born in nineteen. Seventy four, the great for boom Of the of like seventy eight eighty two, I was born in four, and so I was aware of that- and I didn't at a trap till the last year of the fur boom, but I was informed by the fur boom like all this. This is a nineteen eighty four dollars, seventy five I've dollar red fox fifty dollar, mink forty dollar raccoons. Eighty two, their beavers, Evan dollar muskrats somewhat: feeble What was all that mean? And in today's dollars and I was in the round. Can you can you real quick explained why the prices were so high at that time, like just

on demand for others. At that time there was still strong domestic demand and I'm good, sing at I'd? That may be made to remember the better, but the big consumers, china, south korea, russia, right so at times ITALY, so I'm guessing that Those economies were very strong, I'm guessing the oil prices will mean oil prices got incredibly high, their economies are strong, oil prices are high and he had tons of consumer demand and had domestic. Yet u s demand for luxury stuff, one hundred dollars and nineteen? Seventy four would be about five hundred and sixty nine dollars according to ok what a seven dollar mark, but somewhat have not tell me what a forty dollar my dinner, I did it.

Forty dollars were in nineteen. Eighty four would have been a hundred nine dollars today gives a hundred nine dollar mink. Today, money money- and I was seduced by those figures, because wheat more for five bucks and a muskrat was worth more than while depends on whose long like the moslems paid fifteen by the mow. The lawn take like a luxury that you couldn't even get it done at one shot, you're like mow a bunch and then like you'd, go home and eat and go swimming and shit and go back and mo again. So two muskrats. Was like muslins lawn, That's why I got into it. There were guys, but there were guy, taken two weeks of vacation and they like tat team in love, their holiday vacation and by an trucks with muskrat money, critical consent.

You can go there. I built, I built a barn. You could really live off the land back then. So, what's your excuse? How old are you thirty? Two, you missed the amidst all the occasionally, though right, occasionally every now and then something like last. year or two years ago, like western coyoats, it was like whom they were worth a lot of money in your point now, it'll be a freak, but it's because of some type of weird niche market, typically right that legal native italy, so, like the four boom, like you're talkin firm, that I remember where they offer case f year, would have been like two thousand eleven two thousand thirteen fourteen, but that's what you called year, france urban that's my generation ferber

your generation, muskrats and thirteen. The sullen fourteen dollar muskrats averaged almost twenty five dollars on coon's ear. I sold several cairo tina, which we're talkin midwestern coyoats. So when you coyoats, yeah, pretty bad ones. You know and have an average of seventy seventy five dollars on em I'll go firm room, I yeah did really good. Then so yeah you're making money does making money. Here, was actually making money trap and now you just do it pretty much further hobby of it, but for price is definitely have gone down, but that's the fur boom that I remember so is that what got you into it now? So you know traffic is traffic hard like it really is hard and you know grown up. I I wasn't outdoorsman, you know I'd dear hunted, eyebrow junta duck on it. I did everything you know it's ski, though did you did not ski vienna southerner,

we just didn't, have the ability there, so I didn't ski, but you know I was I was putting everything there is a season for our vision for everything that there was a sees. You know we can catch and trap and just it was hard- and I remember this was kind of hard like technically harder physically hard, but I know the answer both both an hour amber. This is conor whenever, like inline muzzle odors were really become a net in real and in illinois we can't use rifle centre by rifles, and so it shot gunnar, muzzle, odor or pistol I remember you know, muzzle loaders were coming out and I I bought a real good inline muzzleloader and I remember I shot a deer like two hundred fifty yards. You know I'm like well, that's it. I'm done like, were you peak the uno? I mean it's just their walkout across forty acre field and you just drop him. You know it's there's not much to that. You know sit in a deer stand and I'd always trapped as a kid, and you know after that

I remember I kind of I bought some sets and you know at the time there wasn't a lot of education about it or information. You know he pretty much had to kind of learn on the fly or was self taught and they just slowly progress from there. You know trapping is one of those things that if you get past the whole disney thing where you know you go out and set three set, then you come back next day and you have three critters What disney talked about that? That's what everybody all tells me there. That's! The assumption I would say is that this disease in movies where people have super high catch rates. Well, I mean you know you get the big bear traps and you know the the illusion of that people have of that trappings. Almost like a hundred per cent similarly righteously with dismay, homeboy ere. I call it disney, but I mean you not just the general. You know which it's not you're goin out there and your trying went out in an area that this critter he knows same as you know your backyard,

you're goin out in their area and you are trying to trick day animal for the most part the step on an area that is the size of a top of a soda. Can that pre hard? Do you not consider that critter could go anywhere? He wants and that's what you're trying to do and I think that's what drew me to it more than anything, a thousand acres homer is the challenge to step on a beer can near the top of a beer, can you're trying to get that greater to put his foot on and that's that to me was kind of the allure of it. That's what drew me to it was was the challenge because I mean you've trapped. You know, you've trapped trappers are a different breed. You know, and I don't mean that and like the german, johnson or moon dingy construction worker in or one of those which I am, but I mean you ve gotta be driven and you know, there's a different mentality to it. happen. You there's a lot of work involved with it physical.

Mentally! You know I thou say so dear hutton, while people can relate to dear hung, so you're gonna, dear hunt and you're gonna dear how every day in December, every chance you get right. So for the majority- was the work of a forty hour week, you're not going to be able hunt during the week you're going to be able to hunt on the weekends right cause sunrises at seven o'clock and set at four thirty. So you haunt every single chance you can, during december you're, going to get the hunt eight times nay days, basically if I want to go trap and on a trap every day in December, I'm in the woods thirty one days in december, That takes a lot of drive and a lot of you know. You're a lot You just gotta be involved with it. So much more, and I think that's that's what drives me to do. It is just the challenge of that's a pretty good point were that the four years I really trap hard would be like my last few years, a high school, where I got where I could get out of school early I'd gone.

we would get out early and I get out pre ethic remarked we be medallic one, forty or such like that and then my two first years of college at a community college, I took all night classes, so I could trap so I didn't have to shop till five. No either had to be there at six or seven and only went for days a week not be there till ten at night I was our october fifteenth when fox opened, and I would be in the woods every single day every day between october, fifteenth and the end of january. I would have some business in the woods everyday it don't. You feel that you what kind of a little better relationship with canada. I guess the outdoor or your area under your c and stuff. Every single day you're in the woods way more than like the average dear hunter, I'm in your interacting with stuff that most people can That really is just that's cool. You now looking for tat,

they'll marks on the monitor. Look, that's all you're taking up footprints in the mud, but no to me, that's that's what draws me too. It is just the challenge and then you know it for my instance head and I take it a step further. If you will, with with my for handling, of its meaning and a lot of people sell in the round or they they sell green, which is just a skin critter. In a round. Is coal on the carcass you caught the thing you dispatched. It very lays that's in the round it like who- explain, who dallied seller rack. In the round to so what However, we have times of high for prices, and there are you know the auction companies or for buyers that will buy that you know back to like your for boom. I remember talking about. That's. They wouldn't even bother taken the time to skin their coon's because the price differ

We finished fur and in the round wasn't enough to justify gone through all the trouble of it. They could just go out and get more coon's and in there reunite drop by the fur buyer or you could freeze on the independent. on your climate too, but yeah sullen and around or cell in the green nafta there at the end of their country. Run they were often skinning you could you could you could send em green furs and they would flesh em and stretch them. So a lot of buyers to to your county buyers, sometimes prefer having green fur. or or in the round, mainly just green, simply because they know you're, not gonna, screw it up I got it so I mean they know that they ve got a skill set there they're gonna flesh and strategies how they wanted, because percent of your local buyers, are sullen to the auction houses anyway. So they want to get up premium and they want to have it right. So I know I know something: gonna increased tension between you and south and is going to create

tension between you and rick lake and all sorts of enemies. Seth had a top lot make ya, which he's going to tell that means, and you had a top lots. I had a top lot gray fox, though. the top tells do about that means o the tablet due priority. No, yes, do knows about the topic, I guarantee that I have had a few. We talked about eyes. What hurts me more is I got that top law and seth they re a wreck. You gotta go back beggar, beggar. Who was what the hell atop lot, oh I've never had one, but I can do it do out report subsided? Do I do it later toppling ass? His fur knowledge is good for handling one or one, ok, so atop lot. in general owner we're talking top while we're talking about selling through the auction houses. So you got a few different ways to sell. Obviously you can sell to your county or local by.

And then normally they will actually sell to the auction houses so few years ago. two main auction houses. There was nafta, which is north america for auction and an f age for harvesters right, Ass went under a few years ago and allergies, fur harvesters, so the auction houses, they will gather up giant lots of fur and they'll greater down by size by color, hold different, hold ever less the stuff. So, to get a top lot basically means that you have your your pelt in the very top of what selling, so you ve got the best color the best size, the best quality you ve got the best of say all the kyle's that are being sold at auction. That top lot you your your pelt in that lot, that's being sold, and I mean it's a pretty big honour really in order to be able to get that,

they give you have they give you had they give you a pen, they give you a little certificate with your name on it. They tells you so yeah, you're rigs. Very sad story, though, so it was. It was actually twenty thirteen, because I was to leave the room, or so it says, twenty thirteen or maybe actually yeah. It was twenty thirteen and I I got to this certificate in the mail, the top lot. For that gray fox, and I told seth about it and- and he was like all pumped he's like hey when you go sell for next time, you could take certificate and show the the driver and you'll you'll get a hat and I'm like oh sweet with the driver regarding oh yeah. Ok, so well still can talk so much better this, but you gotta, it's a very, it's always rearing how back more than I do from a legal point. Zat aided and the german says used to work for were kind of my trapping mentors and their tell me he's are alright. You gotta sell your fur. Now you gotta there my. How do I do that? Their explain in the uk

go to the t, tried miata tier seven, thirty and drive around back like baby and eighty eight, the angel of anna, I bought south and east. gentlemen were messing with my side to show up and the eldest know what to do, and I am a little by little bad they gave me am, I might say, my nafta sack and I'm sick. their toy and then, when you get there, you gotta pull your pants down. Yeah was a sketchy trying to make that line, and I'm sitting there and I started noticing all these other trucks pull up and like okay, I think, and it's the alec six in the morning, then this budget rental truck comes ripping into the parking lot. Just parks in the middle back guy gets out opens the back door, and I think I told you I felt like cycling, your young kid going to the gym

asked the first time in the showers and I like this little bag, I'm like I got twenty firs in here and then these dudes are just unload in white bags. I'm like oh shit, wow, that's hot, but that was the first couple of times so you'd you'd go there and you get no line hand in all your bags, they give you who is like the older certificates. South made right on in their bid like a pink sheet yellow. She need that to throw. When in the bag and aid hand you year stem butchery Do you know? I don't know unless it is no money to his hands, but that's the pick up, I'm referring to so a couple like in the next year.

This pick up and I might last year I have last year's top. Lots are typically in my hand, and I can't wait to get that now. Photoplay, trapper hat, I know senseless. Do men all go the bar belies. I would, as I was so into love girt with a golden bordered into a european law, and I walk. I was over the last guys line. I we did my hour for exchanging. Did my she s like sir, I also have a top lots. If we get here as they are one or indeed the hats- and it was this guy. He looks right just so seriously. I'm sorry son, I'm all out of those hats. I gave them all like my last one out, and I was like. Oh that's, alright, you know, but I was so crushed. I walked off like I was tough, but I was like oh my not all I wanted was that day back in the day. I don't have one and it looks like you turn up right now: man, it's emotional,

teammate. I want to see. I've never had the top lot, but I kind of want the I mean I I'd never would and you should be shot if you do, but I'd be very tempted to wear that and yeah- I wonder we should. What did you got yourselves war and got exposed pure, like? Let me see your certificate, do you know I'm going to? I was going to frame my certificate after we talked about it a few months as I got used to it, It is through the owner, of course, a great unless we are talking about here. He should framework and I was I say it in your trouble. Might you know what I should marry my doing? I got my first. We top loves you guys. Do I get three through nafta, for which once I've gotta coon A beaver and I've got a child because see the problem is now. I say kyle because I'm from Illinois midwest right so there's kind of this thing amongst trappers. You have your top lot.

and then you have your top lot sections. So, like my beaver, I my beer was the top lot. My coon was the top la. My cairo was the top lot of this section, so I wish top the asked of the ship guy, it's like you're standing on the podium, but the guy, your top of the podium, but there still somebody just above you, because it's not the top top, but it still, the top of that section the western pails would be top. They are top like. I'm never going to get a top lot kyle or I trap ever. It's just not going to happen, but I got the top lot of the section. Do you have three heads know I got one hat because I to similar stories to really they really dropped. The ball and hats got three pins, though, the us, yet you know the pins lira. I remember I cheated out of a pen anna had made, but the heads were cool. Like monies were mine till it was so ready a nasty. You know a surprising stew. You kind of talk that hat

and I'm not a hack, I don't, I very rarely actually wear hats, but that was like a badge of honor because I do think in the tier of like outdoorsman trapper is the pinnacle and like not a lot of people in our generation were in a trap, and that was like. I want that hat, so I can wear it and I just felt like it was like a metal and when that old man told me he couldn't have one or didn't have it as like: a hawk where's your headset. I think it's back at my mom's place in pennsylvania, somewhere call and tell her send out a certificate. I think it's there too somewhere. Can you ever hunted down I hope I have looked look look for it. I join plug your mama's boy, company. While we're talking about does center company in Belfast pennsylvania check it out, you have you to buy its, thereby I'm anywhere else. Go biomass. Zappos, though, by an amazon, the drive to Seth's mom store interbrew company work haunting western, they also sell all sorts of stuff like that

ankles goals and whether good, if you're over their president of Europe here, go to sneeze bureau. There go to says my check him out. a booth at the the with the the big sportsmen shown in harrisburg here, actually go meet. The real sas mom yup go go up. There booth we're gonna, be. There ask her. If she can. Please find sets hat and top lots of difficult. Yes, that I am sure that hats cause you had it in college. He added, unlike your wall, yeah yeah I kind of lost track of it. I don't know where it is, but you can see they only give top lots for certain species so some reason where I met. We grow like awesome, possums, cause. I don't I don't know I write, but back in the day, you can pay for our gas by by putting possible what is the day levin through fourteen. That's, that's my fur boom okay, so explained

awesome market. Well, I mean you know you got kind of a lower in market with the possums, but normally you catch him his bycatch, and I would put him up and I mean where we grow some big possums there, and I would I remember, I can't stay the exact I want to say like seventeen dollars, I sort of awesome for back in the day. I knew she I mean I average like twelve dollars on em. what is that market collapse now yeah, for it hardly even get rid of them right now, but So what did you tell me this interesting is the skunk fur market doesn't fluctuate, not really. now dependent on who you go through in the different avenues you got there skunks, or at least what I in my area. They're the most consistent sell every year, mainly just because they're a novelty item, so you who do you sell the skunks to I've, got a couple private buyers who have I'm not going to say, but

gotcha. I mean it. It's kind of a it's. It's a niche market right so I mean you know: you've flood the market with these niche buyers, then you know you're, not gonna have your market but yeah. It's it's a very consistent market and how many skunks did you put up this year? Probably I dunno numbered I'm saying between sixty and seventy so far, you've flushed and stretched between sixty and seventy skunks. This year union smell, like wow how do you dispatch him cause? That's that's always real controversial. A lot of guys will inject them with acetone. I I shoot everything I'm not going to take the time, I'm running and gunning, at the time. So I do a center body shot. Try to hit the vitals. I think the trick is a very slow bullet. Something is not going to create a lot of impact and

I probably get maybe one out of eight one out of nine that spray, because I want the essence right so that adds to the value of the skunk. Is that you sell the for, but then you there's also a market for the essence, and so essence, right now as you're right about twenty dollars announce average, what they're, so how much you get out of one skunk about twenty five dollars. I mean like It has since was yeah, so it just depends on if they spray or not. If they're full, you know over half an ounce, so you take a a skunk. That's you know twenty five dollars. If he's got good white stripes and if he's full essence, you know throw another ten to twelve dollars on it. bad deal for something you're, not necessarily targeting either. I mean there are guys at target on, but for me they're bycatch, so well to set specific reform because other targeting other species, and I say bycatch in fact. It

I'm in the same general area. So I catch him a lot. My comments at his work at home cause, you gotta catch him, whether your target them or not. So, unlike us that you want that, you want the good ones, you know, you're gonna get a little bit more money for the the good white stripes. That's what they want. I mean that's that's what the novelty market is one, but not us it is under underrated fur for sure, and if you have never seen a skunk for general, they ve got some fur. It's real long kind of silky fur, I'm hit it is a student, you say: there's trappers even started a target them now. As of that market for sure yeah there. There are several guys that that I know that they go out and pretty much target him. You know, do you think me and rick would be able Although a lot of those giants I'll show showing the early today we'll see, that's one funny one hundred pound? I never did get a top lot skunk. I don't think they give out the certificates. That's a funny! You know it's kind of. I haven't gotten that hat yeah and I know results

I don't know first, you know, there's no there's big skunks you'd have to give it forever is no more nathless now, and I dont know if they give out for forgive my ignorance here. What is the market for the essence like water people use it for. What are they want it for? So the main market is for bait makers. It's also you can google adsense and come up with I mean it. It is there's a large market for it. The main market is essence for for lure for trapping. That takes a lot of it and you know- and it's so like we were Well, Martin sets right, there's not a lot of skunks in the mountains, so those guys can't access. You know they don't have access to skunks so, but there are different different markets for it too, as well as the gacha. I think I could be wrong. I think there's some food additives that stew, you might have heard I feel like years ago, was used in perfumes,

perfect. You need paul apart the scent but like what sticks the outset, what europe is some way to break it down: casters huge yeah, Cancer is a hundred bucks, a pound or in our asters hundred bucks. About so like castors owes funny because, like around the holidays, caster you're talking about it, we're talking about a thing that, like when you skin a beaver on each side of the vent it'd be like if you're like, if you agree, down and grab. On yourself, male or female, whatever above year out, I put it A twin won't be that little area, a no vote return fellow air, exactly between to save in between is not your tea. It's like does like a vulgar too for what that is. What is it like? If you know like

Above your genitals, none either side is like a little soft area where your legs join up to your body. What does that calm? That's if you had a hernia, oh yeah, picture yet heard him out. Were there sits? If yet, mobile hernia growing area, growing, their cities to sacks the castor looks like a brain to they. Two brains hide now down in there and they use it. For It's a like artificial, vanilla and vanilla extracts, a big one lot of the goals. I I think there's a big market in turkey for something they perfume it's huge and perfect, because it really does have a sweet smell. Two hundred bucks a pound winner, but opponents, the caster if you are going to be reloaded with cast or his casters worth more than all of his other parts, the one hundred percent that I might be since I've been with steve when I'm sitting on bunch of pounds of trap and rich is the the weight that the dried out weight.

Generally, there's a feed ever wise, but generally the the accepted way is to have it dried. Can I give you a huge boost be recast. Then you'll, like. I owe me like stretchers up my that weird gametes stretches If I give you a big bag of beaver cash as we call it in the call even called even get that hat from him, would you fly home with the beaver casters? We could fly home with I dunno with a bunch of uber cats. No, you need a for bait. That's that's one! Universal bait! I know it's a universal and now baby castor is is words. I have your trap in right now. So I'm going to give you a bunch of beaver care and the oil sacks too, you can also take the all sec. I kind of quit saying no, because me is that your were all lure makers. Don't have you know that and we would date or lures we made l we made like a lot. Oh yeah. Is that that stuff we used the other days. those from them: the mainstream aid, like a cup of court jars of that stuff We took our valerian route apple s.

Than a lot of beaver, castor, in a lotta glycerin should work. Molly, where's, adored A lot of areas with that. Now the castor different words that are you selling, castor? How someone gets through I take what cause I may go out of my own bait, so I take every year what I need to get me through basically the next year and then I'll sell the rest. Only give you a couple of bags of it. Okay, that's why you have I wanted you get what you're be repression like southern illinois. Is there a lot of people trying to catch b, reserve, there's not a lot of beavers where I'm at okay? So that's that's the problem. More than anything, it's gotta be very conscious about. Yeah, I've always that, where I'm at right now, if I wanted to, I could take two weeks and I could basically trap out my my area, yeah and so I've gotta be very conscious about how I try to be rat trap, far away from the house trying to get the the big

the big. You know, apparently trapped far away from the beaver house. Yeah cause generally the further away you get from the house. You kind of keep yourself from catching the small kit beavers they just don't travel as far and then I just you know once I go in I'll, take you know two or three out of the house and then I'm done I'll leave it just kind of have seed for next year. How big is your trap in areas like so My trapping areas dictated a lot by my work being our construction, so I have a giant, range, that I've worked over the years and over the years. I set up sort of trap lines. The correlate with were I'm working You know, because I mean I'm workin every day, so I want to be able to run the line on the way back home from work to help children. This is who help him conceptualize it If you tell how many permissions permissions humbly permissions. You maintain at any given time between a hundred fifteen or twenty

land owner permit, I get that many white tailed happier work. Is that the only way I can trap so it we have we have no public land where roma, but yet but you don't need give your spiel. Yes, sir, no, he walks up with traps and starts. Jam in his hands and to give him an education. You know I mean the first so in general, is people are worried about their dogs, so in general I am I get knows the one. Yes all you for trap and familiar hunters. That's what they don't understand? They don't want you on which their land, ever, but I mean that's kind of my ratio is, is nigh, knows the one? Yes, so you'll go up. You have a conversation with them as better than spencer's. Wait. Till ratio wasn't like a hunter. fifty and he got one or down where were you on a hunter fifty letters he got like an a plus. He was

grading yet like in a plus a couple seas and de minus eight were gone. so now I go up and try to you know more than anything try to educate the people about dropping cars. I mean a lot of people, just don't know about it. You know and like I said then I have the illusion that alma go trap where you're going to bring out a giant bear trap with teeth. You know and- and you know, that's just not the case so in off that fails I'll normally get out. Traps then hear this. What I'm going to use, and you know nine times out of ten I'll, stick my hand at them and show you like: I'm not losing fingers or breaking bones or any thing- and you know for me where I'm at cause, I do live in what I would consider a fairly populated area, kind of last resort I'll go to the dog proof traps which, if you do not understand what a dog proof is, is basically a cylinder and so like an acount, a skunk, a possum. They all have a lot of dexterity in their paws. They kind of have a hand if you will so with a dog proof trap. If you can picture

or about a three inch tube. That's about an inch and a quarter in diameter and the very bottom of it as a a lever on it that you actually have to pull as opposed to a foothold trap where you know the critter just puts his paw in it and then the jaws close around with these dog proof trap. Apps. The the opening is small enough that that ideally a dog, can't you pod out in there, and you have to actually have dexterity pull up on that train. You can only catch things. You could pick a lot pretty much here, so I will use, that, as you know, kind of a last resort. So to speak, to get permission you don't say: hey I can with the right bay. I can trap round all your cats and in all your farm dog there a thing like that in some, that kind of seals the deal. If you have a heartless, a yellow, but yet like a hundred twenty permissions around, if you say that hundred twenty permissions, how many those are dog prove only. I would say close to have her hostess.

I mean that's the only way I can do it and that's the reason I use so many dog proves in my trapping is because you know I've got it I gotta do what I like. We do kyle work on those places, handicap or can't set one and have no two twenties, bad. Any luck I get in mission, where, like at home, leases where they're, like after white tales, are turkey's or water falcons. Those guys want. You come in there's a few yeah, they they want the predators gone and you know which they always have stipulations. Oh well, I don't want you in here a week before season. Are you week after season and that they want to really make you work for you know, which is dunno annoy you know, we ve got a shot gun firearm season starting november every other week in for a month and a half, so it makes it really difficult to work around. You know so. You've got to do a lot of planning and and different things like that to be able to work around and actually trap an area like that, Explain your honor. We talk about otters. Today, ok explained

works for you like in a regulatory sense. When you talk about like the u table at getting my otters so to get my orders in illinois, we gotta season. I guess it was eight nine years ago or so by now so I can go out in illinois. I am allowed five otters for my license, so I can go out and and target the otter once I catch it. I make a phone call to the dnr and they send me a a site tag and then I tag that otter once as a site tag on it. Then I'm good to sell it and you every year can get five. I can get area every year and what do you do with those five? I sell them to taxidermy trader for trade. I sell a couple every year to tax that early, but the majority goes to for trade. Normally I can find some.

buddy local. That wants him as a wall. Hanger yup that I could sell them to. You know cause we're only deal with five, so yep it comes and goes back in the day. You know I was selling them back in the day. Again, you know there's more money in selling him at the fur trade than it was it's on the local, but what was the highest in the otter pelt went forward. You can remember in terms of your ferb room, I remember selling a couple for fifty bucks. Okay, so I mean nothing crazy. You know which, whenever you're looking at a fifty dollar order, huge crater. You know you feel like you should be given more form anyway, but so how that you want to decide to do like all the instructional videos you do it as a way to like. Did you think you be away? to make money, no, no, because there's money in it, but so it is no morning- does make a youtube videos not for me because you tube so restricted and you don't have you don't sell equipment everything now now so

You do so restricted on their stuff? That, in our re hears about modification of videos in my content is not me. at the same lower the youtube. Won't, let you monetize your videos or youtube. monetize railway model. Because of my content, because they feel that it's the animal cruelty is year. And there's a fine line you gotta play. You know you two huge with blood. You know you can't show blood, and you know you there's a strike rural to see your own. kind of walking that fine line of you know? Even if this is the monetize per se, I've still got to not get a strike on my channel because then they could just you could wake up one morning and it could just be done. I know, but you've never lost your channel, never lost my channel. I've had two strikes before in a year, that too, that youtube's policy makes it that you're afraid to like redo and making versions of your high performing videos, correct ia

yeah. I saw a lot of my videos, which I just can't get back to your initial question, so we're talkin back back in the day this was ten years ago. I've been doing you do now, for this is my tenth year doing it and which kind of correlates right with the middle of the last fur boom and I've been trap, and for a few years when I'd be putting on my for you know not to pat myself on the back, but I mean I kind of felt like I knew what I was doing- and I remember like was rick- was saying you go up to the napa truck you know you're sitting there as it stands. and new night cordial during a four You ve got a lot of new guys come on it, and you know that that aren't there too there just there for the money and red fox or pretty rare around meyer and are not very common and at this time in ten years ago there wasn't a law literature out there about trapping. You know you refer fish and game, you are trappers, but there were just a few magazines, you know, but most there wasn't a lot of information out there. It was kind of secretive, really

We were walking up to the napa truck and there was this guy and he must have found a pocket. A red fox. Would you know, like I said, ron meyers, pretty rare and he had a hang in there and he didn't have enough bags of the first year and those things were just butchered. I mean they needed the guy did not know what he was doing and armor or that I I told myself I was like well, I could do this. I could I could put out content. You know that people could good view and what they're there for right. You know cause I feel like you're going to take the anime might as well. Do it justice and put it upright and it was actually that night I went home, maybe you to channel on than that, following seas and morally there that I may first thing you launched on it. I was hung with my own hand, because the season was still in the season was still in for that so that the first video ever uploaded was was on with my coon hound and there the following year: the falling trap and season. I started with the for handling videos, and I did for handling videos

just about all that all the critters in my area, from the process of catching them skin and inflation and stretching from the whole deal? So an entire, but why you can't why dont want to reduce so I've tried to redo couple of times and every time I upload em, they very quickly get demonetized which sucks, because you we'll find it cause it's new yeah. You do it cause yeah. So all my old videos or demonetized anyway, but there are still up there, so it's not like they can strike me on them. You they've already demonetized. But new videos. They don't go strike you about ten year old stuff, now I woke up one morning a few years ago and I had like seventy five videos that were all demonetized than I had a strike overnight. Just all yellow on my oh, my page. They hit me hard. I know I couldn't upload for fifteen fifteen or twenty days. I can't remember what it was yeah they like banned me from it so yeah. No, I I've tried. In the past because, like I said obviously, I didn't know what the hell I was doing back then you know I had a borrowed

that I set up in my shot up, you known jerry thing: doing what they called where you are like a lot of pod kasredin paint patriotic right have you thought about do of fur handling thing for handling series like patria. Were people just donate like peter in view and donate a little money. So I I actually do have a patriot. I I and I tried it. The problem is especially nowadays, youtube is where the traffic is. So you, the guy's video streaming service on the planned yet see you ve gotta, that audience and that draw to be able to. So, if you do on yourself, you just never going to people are going to find it. They are going to go, find something in it and very few people I mean especially now you know back then I was one of the first people I was putting out trapping content, you know and and that kind of content. Now everybody

and the brothers got a channel. You know they're putting out content, so people aren't going to go pay to watch something that you know they can just go right down. The search bar then go search to match you. It's tough. You know you're in a real pickle pickle here, but it's been fun and they just still support, though anyway yeah I I've got to pay that it'll be behind a pit set up for it, but I mean it. It doesn't have a lot of traffic that goes towards it. Like I said, then what is it tell people what it is it just search, coon creek outdoors on on patriot, won't find it through youtube. No, no! It it's in a link underneath all my videos. So if people are out there to listen to this, that, like Stu, Miller's coon creek outdoors for handling trapping videos, they would need to go to patriot and inf. and you there and give you little jingle there that that's one way to support united That's, why you and give you all that be recast, because I have been in that page to pay that there's not

not a lot there. I neither honestly I dont postal out of videos there simply just because the traffic there is not it's available to all the work that goes into it, but now it's like. I said I I you don't do it for the money you know just like rick, probably not trapped for the money they're. Not right now I mean you rat or the the heritage in the sport of it. You know yeah that romantic There are some who are his troops, the role, the only your own traditional practices and trapping is one of the oldest dino, the drifts, the roma there. That's all I want to read about knows a kid: I know, because kids want to go, live out in the woods made a living off the woods and I didn't know about writing. I thought you had to do it through trapping. What was I in for a surprise? do you ever do any like road trip, trap and vacations for stuff? You don't get to trap for this year near home. This was my first year

this year, the stew came out mean me: do Gallo abuse the cairo all that. Well, I do. I owe you one of those hard hard driven now that as tough wrote, that markets not from that europe is now naturally not know. That is one thing that you too, give him its. Let me meet people go places and do things that I would never been able to do in so plug plug your hunting and fishing channel? So if you want the out you can search concrete outdoors, that's where the good stuff is. That's where the gold is. The idea that that's where I put up all my content whereas the gold- that's where, like the stuff that like home, Next I want to work on the course of their debts were like that. Who excel at like a skill set that is not widely known, unlike the fur handling, trap and information like to me is like does the alleys anyone.

what I want to know so that I'm a good look at that pressure. Yeah. Now that means a lot but yeah. I I pride myself on on the put up and the for handling side of it. So I mean you know, there's nothing special about I'd, What I do you know, I mean I'm not the best trapper and I'm not the best button up stuff, but you made a bolt from scratch. About me. I came across a one time, looking up up just like looking both stuff on youtube, where you eyes as you are well that a boat because he likes to fish care fischler, experts crappy, so he welded up or catfish crappy cambodia sweet. It's a suite channels at on. That's all my main joker got doors. Okay, tell people the other channel, though got another channel branched off of my main channel. Simply because the audiences wasn't wasn't there, but I've got efficient channel that I do a lot of content on in summer. Its couple years old now called total angling experience, and that's that's worm slowly trying to put all my fishing content, then you know educational side like tracks, indifferent things like that. You, like you, like cats, like cats, and I cried

please, let's that's what I fish for one, so cats and crappy ice. If you're speaking my language, if you're interested in that kind of stuff yeah, that's I don't bass fish, so catfish and crappies world. I therefore that their knees sense do Miller a few pounds, be recast or go to the patriarch deal and throw a little jingle. This can guys way we're here your fish stocks, probably not demonetized right. This does not not demonetized, that's that's another he's in the end. I I wanted to have a kind of a bad if you will yeah just because all the problems with you know, I mean there's, there's a huge deal right now with you, and all the outdoor community. Now you to Vienna Kennedy monetize and in picking what they want to see me a conversation we have all the time is: how can you come in and.

How could you come in and create an alternative for outdoor? How could you come in and create an out of an alternative for outdoor pursuits? That would get that you would build up so big that it would actually have traffic will be a reliable place to go look, but it's like youtube is, so that's because that is where all the traffic is. You know what I mean you want to know something you search it on. You, like, I dunno what it is. Every minute four hundred hours of stuff gets uploaded to youtube, or some shit like that, the youtube a google company aren't they yeah yeah yeah, which man like if somehow late. It's almost like. It's like the q tip thing. It gets just youtubes, not even it's just where you find information. Now it's not it's a it's bigger than just deleting, I feel, like

socially now we launch we put every day every day are our company we put material on you to everyday. We're gonna happen on it, but I do I do, but I dont legs. I don't like the hostility to the the hostile. Due of the disciplines with my uncertainty in that environment right, you never know, what's going to happen with like putting out that kind of content, yeah yeah, they could take it. They can take it away from you tomorrow if they really want without any question their platform so yeah. You know as much as you want to beyond their love it or hate it. You still gotta play by their rules. I I I do and say Jesus is a very humble person, but I started trapping right around the time stupid and just I love old trapping books. But there's a lot of times. I read that where MIKE tat. Some of you now to show me how to actually do that lie ahead of schedule, my hour or black and white photos that are so horrible. My letter,

I was going to ask do like how like where'd, you learn at all. How did you get good at? I was self taught for the most part everything at the eunuch. As I said I, I did learn a lot for revision game. I've had a subscription to them forever and there was a lot educational stuff. Then lot would just trial and error. I thought trapper predator collar blue for fish game away on instructional that you think so. When I was a kid reggie was more fond, read, but structural I mean a lot of it and like works it, you can read and you can watch somebody the, but a lot of it. She's gettin out there doing trial, he had a lot of real rough dvds out there. Now that I'll get your by I've oppression, your channel. Oh, you cannot have one thing and we talked about. We were trap and was you you cut the bullshit pretty well cause. I I went down rabbit holes on like trapper man, forum and stuff, where I'm like. Oh my god, I gotta, I gotta, wear a hazmat suit ill, so

The guy I was telling me when you make a new set. You squint your left, your left hand. I know I work. I got so wound up on that and your channel's really good it cut through it and it's so yeah. Everyone should go super subscribe to coon creek outdoors, nor appreciate that no It means a lot like I said you know a lotta guys are just out there to make content, but, like you said I mean it, doesn't take a lot of people overthink trapping. They really do like you said they go down a rabbit, all they gotta be theirs. Nine just sit back and four inches, is that now in on it there whenever you really break it down? There's there's a few simple.

That you gotta do to be able to be successful at it, and once you have those few fundamentals down your golden, I want at this touch on one of the things you taught me and I walked away from our little trip with that. I ignored very much and I think it's that romantic little side of it you liked set on sign and every time we came to a pitcher per if the area you are like was there sign here cause if there's not we're not put it does matter, does look cool and it hit me with such a reality check is like man I put traps in areas. So let us have it doesn't like this is what the manual told me to do. This is what that little book told me in this is perfect. I don't see any sign here, but I'm gonna put a set here As these animals are so down the effect, they don't know they're supposed to suggest that yeah. I took away from that stew, and so now you got it.

you gotta be certain where the critters are. You know and a lot of people that are trying to catch coyotes and I can't catch caught because everybody gets a hard on for coyotes right, like that's like kind of the pinnacle predator, you know. Well, if you're gonna get caught, you gotta be where a coyote is. You know, you've gotta, beware is going to travel and they know it's the same thing with a lot of things we're doing in the outdoors like fishing. He gotta be fishing where the fish are and yeah I mean it's easy set in. You know. You say that people like, of course, but you gotta, put your time Scouting mostly assure the whole lot acknowledge eighty nine seven where you want to be You you'd resource media, to the Earl of it like facebook, instagram so hip. Tell people that's a conquering outdoor congrats. I didn't remember: kukri got doors simples against lesson Fella has Kyle they're out dear on here comes a beautiful cow.

Analog by m delight man or hang that sucker on my wall? What do you do? Go to concrete outdoors, the the find videos of how to set traps and inflation. I've got videos on tanning for home, use and garment use everything else. So the members and willpower gaster or gotta to what's it? at the patriarch. Perhaps there are yoga studio, you're comin out, man now appreciated it's blast than awesome Speak a wall hangar coyoats, you know you do next now we're we're doing the migrants Thank you very much.

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