Steven Rinella talks with Greg Fonts, Brandon Hendrickson, Mike Raabe, and Chester Floyd.
Topics discussed: Chester the Dive Master (pronounced "Mester"); the Makah tribe wants to start killing whales again; how Rep. Clyde's RETURN Act, which would gut Pittman-Robertson, is simply not the right way to go; California now says bumblebees are fish, and why that's interesting and important; the industrial harvest of menhadens/pogies and a clarification from TRCP's Whit Fosburgh; dealing with sharks in the water; explaining the Oreo; oil rigs as major fish and wildlife magnets; rig reaping and losing incredible habitat; shrimp boat secrets; cobia pass bys; how losing good reef is like losing a friend; it lives in the water, is furry, and has eyelashes; and more.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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new chasseurs new, nickname its tricky its gesture, the dive master master was fully dive master. Would that is right
so yes, let you get a kind of measure. Dna master yesterday
ass master, about dive, meister diet choice to the dive maestro, yet it works
Let's turn and just like a phenomenal frida were now just like a better free diver. The me now, I'm not sure. I think it is to the volvo mine what they
was the day you can really get under the water
well rigour david oriented today, so the
it was what saturday solar ban friday so
He can really get underwater and, on saturday he's a fifty four directives
looking around relax. What's your secret jester the first day,
I was flailing around like shark bait.
and the second day I just was like
I just gotta relax real because I can swim. I can hold my breath and I think I know how to clear so I just have to relax. So I rely
And I think it only made three dives like three or four dives all that all day yesterday, but like just tried to
sure my heart rate was low and had just relax and then
when I was diving in hawaii. The thing that hurt the most was I'd, go.
Out- and I didn't know how to equalize my mask and my eyes were getting sucked out my head basically, and that was like
Variable is limited me a lot, but now that I just pushed a little bit,
air into that mask and relax. It was sweet and just diving,
So in louisiana, there's a mock line and not all the spots
I was glad to hear your goddamn are clear and you can
the anything, so you just it's kind of freaky, but you keep score
and down keep swimming down and all of a sudden, it's like clear, you start seeing fish around and then watch.
they will then watch you guys do what you do in it just help.
You know everyone's moving nice and slow and smooth and relaxed so watch and helped a bunch too
do you think you're going to give up on walleye fishing, though now it's still going to be interesting to you, I think you meant cherry to start hunting, lala, staying
the boat, not known. What's goin on down there, you have all your fancy, electronics. When you just go down there and look well, you know I don't
Anybody in those wall, I circuits scout by diving that would you learn a lot in.
Freshwater diving in arkansas, though the wallet and strive ass, everything you get a complete ever purse perspective of what it's like. First, what the rotten real guys.
amazing for scouting yeah brain entered into every introduced themselves. Brain induce, branda, henrichson, ecstatic sport, fishing industries anna, so terribly. What that is.
What is that not not venice patel but boy? What your? What your business is, your line of work, so I run an offshore sport fishing charters here, tuna swordfish, is our primary thing. I love to spear fish, though that's kind of how I got got into it. That's been my main thing for years, but you don't you don't guide spear fishing. I do not. I do not guide spear fishing only because of liability issues
well yeah, we can't get insurance. Tough yeah. Is it that you can't or it would make it untenable like it would just be like totally impractical or I could do it in a heartbeat. I get probably half a dozen requests,
Several dunno I mean from the insurer's perspective like you could, but it would just be like outrageous it'd be outrageous yeah, it's it's difficult to find the insurance, and I mean my insurance is already crazy and again we would double watermark when I'm already paying got it then just make it out too expensive to get clients yeah, your average client wouldn't be able
bought it, got it so, and you were saying spear fishing tightwads a little bit more so than the fishermen eat more so
very thrifty. I think the average free divers spare fishermen is pretty thrifty. It's a younger crowd. The cost to giving into it is not super high verses
our middle age figures, everyone LEO client, let's scrappy more like dirt bag, can
I like that derby, like dirty but baggy like it just a little more just younger, yapping
A lot is allowed a young lady, young kids.
We are not like old yachtsman, they're, not yachtsmen. No, not your average one greg and induce yourself greg fonts distributor for rebel and spear fishing products and
that's about it mentor steve here and there if he listens, come on he's the mentor mike MIKE Rabe underwater cinematographer shot a couple episodes the guys, my first with you,
now you prefer to be filming underwater idea, but I do of have to know how long you been dime for two still: five orally
He didn't grow up with it. I mean I always like snuggled in the lakes and stuff and moved to California. As soon as I moved, I took a scuba course and bought one.
Word: camera, like I moved to California, to be unaware of, and the the school
to her underwear photography programme, so I left school and you unseen.
We'll go for some you're, varying underwater photographer you're, been bit by sharp.
Almost yesterday close yesterday to bolsheviks, just what have you been on? The show?
I have seen I no until another underwater Simba diver, my name's justin
to gammon underwater cinematography, I'd, say camera operator, but
I learned the underwater camera stuff later on from gimme can be taught me. It will then, of course, just the dive master. My iron meister shares do he's
to be the next to sponsored athlete responses on rice during in greece, carbon finns, wetsuit
just is going to quit to be just a lot of talk about being on that you and that sets got gastrointestinal problems or it now. I can't join
Are you able to talk about what it means
to be the angler of the year, not that you are the angler beer,
The angler the year, but this further
Montana ten, I to her that seven, our fishing, which consists of four
tournaments in montana and ideal.
You want a fish more, so it up your odds, become.
angler of the year, which means they take your top three tournaments finishes and yet points, and I'm not quite sure how the points system works,
but obviously, if you do better in the tournament, you're gonna get more points
and we have done two out of the three tournaments that have happened so far. I think we're sitting in seventeenth place, which is pretty good out of
quite a few boats, quite a few teams. We have one more left. We get back from this trip
in the way, the anna you have a date to unpack repack, get the boat rigged, get all that stuff. Sair allows and good buys to our wives and head out to taber for the last one and if we do
well it'd, be sweet to place top ten in anger of the year. If we do well, it could happen. You never know it's great moon goes to turn it up just fish hard
good luck. You guys got a bear with what we we gotta talk about a bunch of new stuff. First off this is really news is like one hundred years old
We recently covers something where we were covered, some guys, Lou,
An ancient archaeological site in tightwad missouri.
We are talking about how does how did taiwan
is there. He get his name. Guy writes in and says, listener writes in and says I thought I'd share. The local history on
tightwad got its name as it was taught to me my aunt,
our childhood by every old man within thirty miles. So Taiwan was wanted with time once parttime called Edgewood Missouri. Here's god's name upholstery worker,
long ago stops into a local produce shop, fixing the
by himself a watermelon to give those wife dragon gesture
the big huge been watermelons in their priced whatever he digs do
finds the best watermelon he can find. Brings it to the counter the shot.
The owner, tells them well that watermelon is the only usual for the been unusually nice
therefore, the watermelon you selected is actually fifty cents more. The postal man was lived about this.
And returned to his mail office. The town
like sixty nine people and so every time, a piece
male was coming in. Edgewood the postal workers would scratch our edgewood.
and right tightwad on it.
Send, along as a snub,
to the watermelon salesman.
He says in other versions that a story it was a chicken.
not a watermelon where's that
I think that's true, I dunno I dunno.
I think by longer
In summary, we get in summer. We I get a lot of letters of people who are having access problems while fishing, like
it'll mean people in Florida that set up sprinklers and shit to like if you go fish by their dark there sprinkler kicks or you gotta
it's rather dark and they go out and turn their boat engine on idle at the scare away, the fish whatever they can do to harass. Fishermen listener writes in about this. Now he he?
He's a respectful chap who wrote in and he's been purpose purposefully bag.
In his explanation of where this
because he's like braun all the guys right, but it's big lake and late county forward. He says there are several
brings that feed into canals that connect to this lake, the canal
but he's referring to has been a public waterway for as long as
he's been alive, in fact he knows- has been regarded as a public waterway for at least thirty years, presumably as public many decades before that.
it is crystal clear, water, large, lotta, hybrid bass. So it's always a popular spot for swimmers and anglers.
A single land owner owns both sides is canal.
and he's always been unfriendly and lately has been really waging war on users bass. Fishermen now he's gone so far as to go ahead.
And in erect a motorized drawbridge to once and for all block the canal.
huh this guy's like? Is this an illegal deal? Now, in all fairness, I can't tell you that's illegal and I don't remember the story. It's aggressive. I mean he's
walking public waters or not right,
I mean we really are very worried about this collateral. Well, it were right
but think about how to do my bided out into my research and think about it.
montana. If someone like put something like that over a river where you used to be how to get a boat through, but I don't know that that's the case here right interests and to me, but I
don't know anytime. Someone tells me a story, it always pisses them off. So usually I don't say it, but you know what I'm always thinking when someone tells me a story, my sig probably nearside of that story. Oh yeah, so I dunno
Two sides: everything if he was more if the. If the person wants to write in and be more specific about which canal it is, I bet you we will get a lot of more dedicated vetted feedback about what the legal players
But what without you saying where this is just too hard? We're not gonna, be able to go, get a bunch of professional opinion on we need you to drop ben, he needs drop,
you can still get a canoe through their. You need slip canoe through their that picture, but you don't know if
pistol waving canal owner on the other side of it easy
the drawbridge is even gothic. This little extra board hanged connected to the bottom is the way
yeah. We just need to get more specific and I'm sure a lot of people, because whatever we do this like people way into like, I know that spot and here's the deal with that spot and you'll get a lot more feedback. You guys
it probably all sneak through there with your wetsuit side and no one will ever know you guys it looked like it that seal team six going through there
now here's a real super, interesting story: it's an old story,
then made new again I'll, make it relevant. By saying on our last episode recent episodes, we had the writer photographer
Commercial fishermen from Alaska south kanner who, as we explained, groping Assad igloo.
I brought down to our studio whale meat and we enjoyed a bowhead, muktuk, so blob earth. A little chunk of skin attach was kind of right. Now, my favorite food,
their coincided nearly in time with a real development for the macao tribe of washington, who is a step closer to the northwest washington macao tribe, there were
instead of closer to legally resuming the hunting of gray whales- and we give you, though, background understands the macao tribe in eighteen. Fifty five signed a tree with the
U S, government, which seated a bunch of their historic lands and secured for them certain things, including wailing rights, so they treat they had a treaty negotiation with the? U s government who never ever ever defaults on an agreement that they would be to contain
new wailing and they they continue wailing. They can they wailed until nineteen twenty eight one they violence
terribly abandoned wailing and nineteen, twenty eight nine might be late. Why would they do that? You're gonna? Did it at that?
in time, commercial whaling enterprises had greatly reduced whale numbers. They were historically harvested heart.
For seals, some other marine mammals, but they targeted gray whales. There was global efforts at that time
to curtail and end wailing, and also the tribe, been you know, influenced by like americanization programmes right like
regards same programme, great american melting pot. So
culturally, they moved away from it and there were very low whale numbers and there were global pressures for governments and others to end wailing. In fact them a car quit wailing before some countries ended.
Rowan organise wailing programmes fast forward from night
in twenty eight to the mid nineties and gray whale estimates. At that time, gray whale population estimates were up to around twenty thousand animals. So a lot of wales and the macao announced there
intention to resume wailing. They're gonna resume wailing by getting a whale.
But in all that time, between twenty eight in the mid nineties, whales had become like cultural deities. There
come almost. If you understand like how our culture fields but whales, the
revere whales almost as much they revered dogs.
Dogs? Are the new whales now yeah? Well, you you'd definite here save the way
yeah, but I mean now, like you know, in the older
that my dad would talk about being made to go down and put puppies in a bag with a rock and throw them off the pier and lake michigan cheese to get rid of extra puppies. If you had a dog had extra puppies
I should ask why anymore absolutely not so like like,
accept entered this almost like human class right.
I feel like a lot of people are having dogs and not having.
Is any canada satisfied with your dog
nevertheless long dogs. Now you have
what around die your dog like the ends in sight. This dark
thirteen years that guy not a big deal when, when our dog dies, it's gonna, be bad
in the floyd household. Really, are you working to take hard? She loves that dog more than she loves me.
So when they want to get back in the wailing whales had entered like the save the whales thing had become like so effective, they did become court. Like
people be more mad about killing a whale than you killing a person by far, and they had to put up with that. So there's there is colleagues too.
primary viewpoints came out about tribal whaling, and it came from both sides was kind of coming from the right and the left in a way where people are like that for the tribe to choose a reason.
The option of what would the tribe was saying, as are saying like we're, gonna resume. This like thing like our culture is based on wailing, so we're going to resume something that has great
seidel importance to us and we're going
resume wailing as take
are the ancestral culture
assuming our ancestral rights
establishing our treaty rights having a cultural connection
our forebears, like these are things that they articulated as being very important to them in the blow back was like varied? Ok, the ball back to the tribe came in two ways: one. It was sorted likes that this idea that, like if you're gonna, take up his story,
cultural practices, then you should resume all of your historic cultural practices that so, if wailing
so important to you. Why dont
bring back widow burning. Why don't you bring?
bag native american slavery and slave trade practices. Why don't you?
resume human sacrifices. Why don't you
presume, intertribal warfare. Ok, the other take on was well, then you should give
of everything that modernity has given to you. If you're going to take up whaling, then you better give up electricity you'd, better, give up basketball shoes, you'd, better, give up welfare assistance like if you're going to be like the old times. You've got to give up all the new stuff, and this is like the heat that this
bribe took, there is more legal wrangling than I care to get a new here and be like too hard to track. The whole
anything, but they went and killed whale. Ninety nine nine people got great glee out of the park or see that they used a traditional canoe with harpoons. Yet they had backup boats
and a fifty caliber rifle that after they harpooned the whale rather than killing it in traditional practices, which would ban base that getting up and lancing it behind the school where the spine hooks
they shouted with fifty caliber rife, which apparently came on the recommendation of a veterinarian, so
people had a heyday with like oh, it was kind of traditional but kind of not, and how hypocritical and people turned into a fiasco for the tribe
They had all the usual suspects right
humane society. They had.
he bent out of shape. Bought them kill this one whale. They had to contend with news helicopters. They had a contemn of protesters and
Oh, it's trying to run him down just a total disaster for everybody, but the gather whale bunch who got there first ever taste of whale blubber right and then it was
given a lot of press, that a lot of the whale meat write it down the beach and they had didn't know how to take care of the whole thing, but they were like stepping back into getting back into this thing.
A family tried again in two thousand to kill a whale, never again hounded by news helicopters. Coastguard was involved
barely a woman was trying to harass. The chase was trying to harass the whalers in a jet skis and she got hit by a car.
guard boat and was litigious about that.
Again made it. A total has a form they haven't on any wailing sense because they
and waiting on the federal government to give him the ok to resume wailing for real, like with all red tape, eliminated
When they came when they did the marine mammal protection act, you head in ITALY, for instance, native away
skins have always car boats for the marine mammal protection act?
siberian eskimos have car about
the marine mammal protection act where there are allowed to resume wailing for traditional practices. The mecca did
for like thirteen years they ve been doing an environmental impact statement on whether they can get one of these legitimate car outs from the fast do their wailing and they just released.
early like a draft of the environmental impact statement, which suggests that an early
twenty twenty three so common up early next year, they'll get the green light for a six year period to kill twelve wet, to kill twelve whales over a six year period.
And now we're in that beloved period of all this shit called the public comment.
Where's. Your is more like they do. They listen during
I comment period? The problem with the public comet period
no they're gonna. You know that the save the whales people
They're like radical animal rights movement is just going to dominate the public common period. I add: does
It sounds like a peaceful,
gathering or comments.
Come in their way by any means. No, it's like the the
The anti hunting crowd will dominate this peered latin,
I always find that, like.
non native like none
native american hunters, usually
the inner rather than a native american hunting rights, because it's like because
Legally has been set up to legally has been set up to put at odds right. Like
People of euro american descent often have a year on it
If you're of euro american descent year, hunting privileges are regarded as much less important than native american or native alaskan hunting. Privileges which creates lotta resent
there's cares idea that, like whatever
amsterdam doesn't mpeg me,
if I'm a euro american, a hunter of euro american descent, vernon,
have my back when it
My disputes for my rights.
That was lightning their quota boomer there, where
in storm? Save you hear a little sh the whole time it just pouring down rain sets the mood and, if someone's of
If you like, a hunter like a hunter in amerika of euro american descent, you're gonna
you like. Why do I want to have? This? Is a common perceptually of people like,
why would I have native americans back on their hunting rights issues? They're not going to have my back on my hunting rights issue. Earth. Is this idea that, like as these two things like
native americans are negotiating their hunting privileges and opened it just a completely different realm van. What then,.
What the american population at large is doing to protect and get their hunting rights, and in an
backed often like people
Euro american dissent, or not since they non tribal, these players, a non tribal individuals non,
bible. Individuals get their hunting privileges.
Other bag limits and everything is sat through state while by management agencies in
Private organizations like tribes tribal,
nations often negotiate directly with the feds. So we have we, we ike occupy these completely different realms. We live under different jurisdictions,.
so I think that allowed. It would look like what the mecca have going on with wailing and would just think like
what does that have why? Why does have anything to do with me like? Why would I care if they can whale bernard,
look out for my right to fish, in fact, their rights to fish, often trump, my rise to fears, so it's good for them. Maybe it's bad for me
Maybe one it is, if you look at who opposed to them, if I
It's like the radical animal rights movement is opposed to macao wailing and in know, often can like.
Pick, your friends by your enemies. I would just say, like the p,
or opposing them, are not your bodies, so I
flexibly. Looked at this time, I hope that they are able to resume their wailing
as I don't think that what that means is that my open up wailing down the road dude like me
we're, very, never gonna happen here and it's out what he has to go get a whale?
fear that there would be hard to that? Then I wouldn't
the ailing, but that well for the rest of my life.
will the whale meaning
the freezer done
efficient, yeah that'd, be that'd, be a lot. I think, if they're recovered, and if you look at what they're proposing twelve whales over six years, if it's done responsibly like great it's just the there's, there's one thing: we've been talking about over the course of a couple of days we're talking about like
it's a good segue actually to to these waters there they were. I was expressing his view that that
World is more it thoroughly its wildlife.
I admit it has to be considered in sort of like locally specific areas, and there has to be considered in terms of what you have to get down to the nats ass,
a lot of wildlife recovery issues. We are discussing that that globally, right, like
The collection of species as a collective, many species globally sharks are in trouble, meaning there are shark species in trouble like specific shark species, are in trouble and specific
Areas of their range, but that doesn't mean that all sharks are in trouble across the entirety of their range. It's more complicated than that.
And I think that the whale movement created the thing that sort lake did they. They ve lumped
whales together and they viewed them globally
to say that a lot of whales are imperilled across much of their range in the nineties
It has been a very true statement. Certain whale species were imperilled somewhere. Imperilled in
Particular areas of their range and somewhere in
Harold over the entirety of the range, but that no way meant that all whales are imperilled everywhere. That wales live aunt just like the shark, just like the sharks in you
cannot come and make an argument that in northwest washington
Gray whales are imperilled or that the even has any
bearing on like global.
a whale populations that this try were to kill a whaler to every year, it's not an issue. It's just public perception. Its public perception battle
If a couple killer, whales are workers, they get really rebranded as orders. If a couple org is killing,
very well is the greatest thing in the world. That's gonna, be like David,
in berlin. We like this assault, cooler. What it will, however, be puts it. They love it.
but a native american tribe kills ones like home. I got the same people.
In monterrey, rear that there's always couple grey was killed by workers. There and they ate the circle of life. They love.
I think it's as my mind, it's it's interesting. I think,
too many times where I'm like. Well, I can't if I can't take advantage of that resource. I don't want anyone to be able to take care of that or take advantage of the resource, and we saw this
in the closure, the abalone fishery in northern california, where you'd go to this day of g meetings and explain what the view that the payments of the partition game, which is now changed its name but
oh that's right. What is it now,
This is a big issue is so it like that,
A lot of state agencies are just have wildlife in, unlike our state aid,
tat life impossible fish, wildlife and parts. They never called a game,
While there are no one cares: bazaars wildlife but care.
for indians resented. The idea is fish. Animals are game, so fish and wildlife
so they changed the be like what that's like a value judgment, you're, placing you're, saying,
while they resources, are like game for the taking
and so we want to make it wildlife as part of california
His great I'm not trying to hack on you boys on the haggard. You boy,
and you boys at all, I'm saying that California's
gradually but steadily tree.
Positioning away from consumptive use correct. I would agree with that
There's no example. Were there not right now.
Phasing out consumptive use of wildlife resources in when you get some.
the abalone fishery. You have these meetings after meetings and people would bring in videos of these areas that are completely healthy and we're talking about specific areas. Just because one one area is unhealthy, doesn't mean the
is an area that sustainable and that you should be able to harvest from and you'd go
These meetings and you'd have all the passionate abalone hunters out there, but
and I don't even know where these people would come from, but you would have this line of fifty people that would talk about well. I think we need to close it, because I want it to be here for my kids.
I like going to the ocean and whale watching and like your that's nice, but you're, not using the resource and if you're not using the resource, you don't really understand the resource. So it's one of those things have to just kind of paint. Broad strokes of I want it closed because I wanted to be here for my kids that might not actually
be the case. No, it's one of those things. If you let areas be overpopulate or you don't mind, harem yeah, they can actually become more unhealthy and collapse even more and my big issue with that was when they were doing surveys, they would survey.
if excites over and over and over again, they would never go out of those sites and go ok, hey what are in these lp ace, how them l p s? Don't they would never survey the protected areas to actually see what it untouched area,
So it is interesting that in just it's just so
general like. Oh, this winter is bad. We should shut it down or I don't want you to have it. So I you know, I don't want to have it so you shouldn't happen. It's one of those things. That's because you don't actually use the resource.
I'm not going to rush out and go hunt a whale I'll. Tell you that much! If I could it's one of those things, that's culturally important to a tribe, that's if healthy populations persist, then they should be able to
but I do feel that the the the wailing spirit resides deep in my who most of us, though, because when we're out fishing- and you like cruising along-
alter your efficiency and there's a whale out in front of the region along. I do some part of me is like my god, like when my schedule just like what I like to think of people
no skin canoe, oh yeah, I like to think of people
made a walrus hide
paddling up with homemade tackle,
made entirely from bone and wood and animal parts.
paddling, of fixing, the sink a harpoon in this zone. Bitter is like that
there's the level of
That's a level would refer now
achieve by modern man who, I think, people discount the the amount of effort it takes to do some of these things right. You know like again Babylon fisher fishing. There exists
I mean hey, you know, put a seven mill, wet suit on and getting fifty degree water that super murky and go try to get abalone. It's one of the things of. I think people just think, everything's easy! You just go each go out there and go whaling. Are you? Oh, you just go out there and shoot the rigs up or go get abalone or whatever it is, and it's just like that. There's a lot of effort and put into it that it's it'd be impossible to do in some in many ways that sort of subvert democracy,
he in it would subvert the north american model of wildlife conservation. But if I was emperor of the world or even just emperor of the country, I would enact the system when it came to wildlife management issues and they got into the public comment period. I would send out lie:
dozens of people to go, assign value systems to opinions, and you do an interview process
In my surveyors would go to
but every american who said like I have I will have. I have something to say. I have something to say: you'd raise your hand
send one of my research to researchers to your home and they would interview you
and they would assess your education on the issue.
They would assess what you had at stake. This horribly on american
sounds it sounds it is, but it'd be costly if you knew where, but I would find a way to pay for the emperor I'd pay for it by a by the president of the fishing licenses. Outta Hell. I'd do I'd figure out some way, I'd like to steal of mothership that don't care
that much so I would they do an interview with you.
What is your now's actual now's the issue based on some, like I'm impure like based on like empirical data? What do you understand
it is your understanding of wine was sort of an objective reality, as determined by it like an impartial group and then like what what's at stake for you and then I would rank the importance of your input on a sliding scale of one to ten and it'd, be like the bonus point.
system and tag allocations if you were a ten year vote counted by ten? If you were a one year ago counted once, then I do urge the waiver program plainsville.
Better way, but very un american. The.
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I have observed- and it's been observed by many people- that the that the pittman Robertson act like we, which we talking about every episode, some capacity or another, has become like this over observed thing, and it is,
all the money that
more buyers and gun buyers, all the money that they put in the conservation, in usually some of the groups, some of the
Firearm groups and ammo manufacturers who are hit by pittman robertson, are most eager to
Let the public know about what their contributions of Ben.
you're all release what its public expire.
The pictures on federal ammunition has pumped into pitman robertson, which is in excise tax on sporting goods equipment.
There is a parallel programme and fishing called dingle johnson souls like marine fee.
Wool trolling motors, all kinds of fishing tackle, has an excise tax attached to it. It's been around pittman Robertson been around since nineteen. Thirty, seven and it was
put into effect, because hunters and gun owners asked for it
recover american wildlife and now pitman robertson kicks out like a billion box or year for access disease, research, wildlife management and all goes as man
fun. So all the guns and ammo you you buy, you could be like anti hundred new jersey who buys a pocket. Pistol. You'd is paid in the pigment, robertson funds and its dished out through matching grants so for a state to get paid
the robbers, but they have to kick in their own money, vigour that money by selling hunting and fishing licences. Keyser they
do a thing they want to do.
Says programme, they want to do a research programme. They want to put in
water tanks to improve wildlife habitat in the desert, whatever they're like.
We got two hundred grand for this project, we'd like to get two hundred grand a pitman robert, some money, and they look at everything it lines up with the mission and bam they give them the money. It's a wonderful program. Well, not if you
Ask Georgia, congressmen, Andrew clyde and his fifty three co sponsors who wants a repeal, so republican from george. He wants the repeal pitman robertson,
He's got an interesting argument that that I dig the argued, but I don't, like the whole thing tat about why both the
Resting argument is that he's saying you can't tax.
A you should be able tax a constitutional right and he thinks it's like an infinite. Pitman Robertson, isn't infringement and constitutional rights where
coming from is that there are right now people trying to fight gone ownership and fight. Second, amendment right,
with these sort of like retribution taxes against gone owners. Okay, so dumb,
grab from virginia down. Buyer congressmen from Virginia he's introducing this bill that would put a
I thousand percent tax on one thousand percent tax and semi automatic weapons. Ok
and also like anything beyond rim. Fire ammo would be under these huge taxes. So in trying to
If they are they're like well, let's just overturn the whole program and get rid of pitman roberts, which has been around since thirty seven nineteen, thirty seven that that bill. So I think pittman Robertson is so perfect and does so much good and has been around so long. I don't think you should go back in time
an attack old shit as a way of attacking new shit, that's coming from a very different perspective, remember ills that got. It was the hunters that wanted pitman, robertson and pepper. Ours has been serving hunters for that long
Now again, hunters aren't synonymous have gone honours back most going on as our hunters boy.
look ahead and all you should look passed on this man, it also starts a massive dingle johnson sufferings,
It's like. Electric outboard motors would reduce excise taxes on those from ten per cent to three per cent. There's no constitutional right to having a trolling motor. So you pay excise tax on your spear, phishing you're sure it's the same thing to support fisheries.
An old programme that came from the good guys didn't come from the bad guys. I get to argue about us think it's like it is
I think it's like, and he knows it won't pass. It's almost like
we're like giving it the we're sort of
falling into the trap by talking about it, cause, there's no way it's going to pass, but it's like it's politicking is politicking. It's like bringing things up for discussion. I think it's a bad idea to go through with this last one to get into before. We start talking about something else and
have two more things on that, but they both have to do with fisheries sort of there's all these news stories out right now about how I even I read it in the wall street journal, where disguise
set up like all my god. Now, bees or fish californy now says bees or fish were
Where will the chaos end what's next?
this will have a california, I'm sure you ve seen headlines of you refer news reader in the morning. I'm sure you see redline headlines, like my god, californians so stupid, now, they're saying bumblebee: either
What when they care
This is actually an interesting thing. When California,
like legates californian endangered species act they put in place like what could be covered under the endangered species act and they exceed the dead. The californian dangers pieces act expressly protects birds, mammals, fish, amphibians.
Reptiles and plants. The california endangered species act does not define fish. However, this is where it starts to get rich.
However, the law, the caliph,
endangered species act. Law is part of the caliph,
When you fish and game code.
People reading the law went into sea like when they say fish? What do they mean?
what we have to go, one step deeper and go since it's part of california.
Sufficient game code. What does California's fish and game called mean by fish? If you go,
the fish and game called here's what they mean by fish. They take fish to mean any mollusk
crustacean, invertebrate or amphibian. Now that definition, mullahs, crustaceans, invertebrates amphibians, doesn't specify what they're talking about terrestrial
Or aquatic some people are saying that death, the definition of what they mean would definitely include bees bumblebees because bumble bees are invertebrates.
Other people are like, but dude they were talking about shit in the water man. They were talking about fish. They weren't talking about that. It's like clearly they meant,
shit in the water like fish, but that would be selfish, whatever snail sin. The water nervy we're like no says
any mullahs crustacean, verb amphibian. Therefore, under that fish thing, we have the ability to say that bumble. Bees are indeed
So what does that mean? Does that mean you can't swat a b or else you'll get a ticket?
what it means is there there
is a like. However, they're gonna body here thereafter, there,
they pollinator crisis tale that
no one in their right mind, no one like what
We want what, if you want to do so, a bother not dislike known.
their right mind can tell you the plan is not getting warmer every year. What are you gonna do?
How do you define who is to blame, for that is up for debate? What you gonna do battle is up for debate, but you cannot argue you can't
argued that the plan is getting warmer every year,
this- is, u can argue anymore more? You can say that I don't give a shit. You could say that is not my fault, but you can't say that I am no one. No one does anymore no one's like it's getting older.
pollinators are vanishing at an end
vanishing, alarming rate. That's why it's a spark in true, like I, don't give a shit,
if you want to doing about who you want to blame, but that is happening they are
I should say alarming cause. That's a value judgment pollinators are declining, bumblebees are declining
Care and I dont know, but it that's an it's an objective reality, so the trying to find a way to do it, whose pissed about agricultural producers, because of insecticides, insecticide application, that's
the duke and it out. So when you see a headline, californians think bees or fish good. Lord, that's that's bone. Since we got a couple, California, you guys got, it
just a little more complicated
so little more complicated. I realized I ignored it.
I heard about the amateur,
it may take in round the court's it'll, get appealed again, I'm sure, but currently stands not that bees or fish, but the bees are covered
as a thing that can be list that right now as it stands in california, bumble, bees can be listed so early saint, just bumblebees or peace in general. Well, write another word about seven speech: the basel iii.
a just. Another honeybees are not native to north american european, not another that duel crawlers, our native
when you weigh ass up in the mountains and you're in a little met, only dig downers nightcrawler sitting there at some bitches, not native, were they from Eurasia, really like grenadine,
crawlers, not canadian. Now, while what about the red regular that I don't know about, I have a few
and then we will be corrected by a thousand million people. I have a feeling that the red wiggers and non native invertebrate would love to know we'll find out
Some some sly telephone use,
the right in our presence would be all the figure out of red waivers are native or not,
One last thing in this brain is closer and you'll, see that we're narrowing and on what we're narrowing our focus brain and tell
so we witnessed yesterday by the podium boats yesterday today is going to help.
We will also launch a commercial. What's opponent of the police as we're work, the manhattan dominion fishery, it's big thing here, ill pursuing the minute.
what would it be fair to call like it's an industrial operation? Absolutely the industrial
harvests of menhaden, which they hereabouts call. Pokies pokies was three inch or three inch. They get up to about five six inches head full size with the dots on them. Yes, yeah they have a dot up up towards
french, older continent vision type people would look at me like a bait. Fish is one of our most commonly vision.
But they use and fur they press him for oil for fish oil. Yet fish food then started as a lot of products and is Romania have food.
did they process? It is not you, you don't go down to the fish store. You know, go down the road
Another the whole foods fish counter and get a couple of bogeys by a supposedly bought Poti. You probably have gotten lemon products that you purchased absolutely
we had a guy right, and so we re we do this thing. Every year, with, with every year competence
It would you like a state of the union on conservation issues with white phosphorus who's, the c o and president of the Theodore roosevelt conservation partnership, of which I am a board member on a recent state of the union
So we spent quite at a time talking about the striped bass fishery, all down the eastern seaboard. Of u s. I know that you guys in just bring home for you, ve californians, you guys have a seat,
bass, fishery as well, but that's a non native population, striped bass and in fact, a lot of people like to see those go away and they'd like to see the ones where they're supposed to be do better. Striped bass,
So it's it's a non native. It's like a deleterious exotic in some areas, but in others
eastern seaboard of our beloved country, it's it's. The primary fish is the primary targeted sport in terms like man, hours spent striped bass dominates eastern fishing salt water.
We talk a lot about why stripe mass populations are just not doing great and why there, in decline,
and a guy roared in saying how could he have dared place responsibility for that decline on the shoulders of recreational anglers.
He points out how I express the level of scepticism that how could it be recreational anglers impacting there and its impact and that fishery? And he said he was again,
It's almost fell off his seat that we didn't talk about the commercial menhaden harvest as being largely responsible for declines in
bass, not only that but cobia red room see tromp many other species, we put it to wit, and wit thank for
anxious for reforming the common along and he goes on to say the listeners, cracked men here, the manhattan harvest definitely impact straight backed striped bass populations. He says.
the current harvest in the atlantic, depresses striped bass populations by about thirty percent, meaning, if it was not, they estimate
If it was not for the commercial men, Hayden fishery straight bass, populations would probably said about thirty percent higher than they are right now, which is
real significant, but he goes on to say six million fish. So
The last year that we have full data is pretty old. This gets in an interesting thing around fisheries we
of solid data on two thousand eighteen k, full data on twenty eighteen and twenty eighteen, six million fish were killed,
between the recreational and commercial fisheries guess I'm may were caught by sport anguish. This is astounding.
Five million theirs
many fisheries, like that.
six million are killed. Five million are killed by sport, fishers in the united states, eastern seaboard, or return about specific,
latest striped bass, or some say like like normally like normally there's, not even close to parity between commercial and
creational fisheries and salt water, meaning you go look at like. What's the sport catch on said species and was the commercial catch on said species the commercial catch far outweighs the
I catch. The game go look at like salmon, right, irritable. If you believe the data they have. You believe that some of the data we see around a golfer, so I don't. I don't even believe in oh really yeah. I think the numbers are skewed, meaning
More money is hot. You think that recreational has a higher impact, not think the commercial sector has a higher impact than what they like.
Still the waters even put out then now what the das? Now? Maybe that's the case here, but this is what
we're looking at the number two saying that, like record
National fishermen are hidden it bad now. What wit goes on two counts,
Why is that to you
p and many others are very interested in trying to curtail the manhattan fishery right now.
its man it. What was managed and like in the goal for instance right now they dont have good management plays in the gulf of mexico, is
Andrews by how many they can they take without totally collapsing the fishery? And it's not looked at
Can they take without having made
impacts on other fish species and it is needed. We then need to rethink the fishery altogether.
He says what goes on to say: they need to shift to an
system management while the current harbours
in the atlantic, depressive straight bans populations of about thirty percent. Although we have had significant winds in recent years to reduce the while
we'll catch of manhattan. The atlantic does
the catch limit for men. The gulf of mexico does not have a catalan, and he says we need to do is shifting ecosystem man's
meaning that catch limits are now being set base that what the ecosystem needs
Just, how many men hayden can you kill before you crash the stock.
We are also now trying to reduce, or ideally.
eliminate the harvest of men hidden in the chesapeake bay, which is,
nursery area for juvenile men in an striped bass. That's specific subject here,
in louisiana over the last couple of years, and it came up under two to vote here about a year ago and it's trying to not not eliminate the the fishery, because we know that that's that's not not possible, but try to extend the boundary of how close they are allowed to come to our to our land, which basically is our estuary.
It is affecting our are trout and a red fish and everything else we saw that shark was, I think, one of you guys said most likely the cause of those centres. It was right right by where,
centers wrap the day pump out a lot of bycatch most most of these fish that they get caught in there do not survive. So that is a big problem and you know there's a lotta people out there fighting for to prove it and reset hope for the best that that will change, because it definitely fix the fishery or where it goes on. To conclude that every credible study shows that striped bass are overfished.
That overfishing is still occurring, he says recreational and as recreational anglers I'll point out, that wit is an avid striped bass. Fishermen. We have no choice but to put in strong conservation measures to ensure that we and overfishing and allow stocks to rebuild.
Are there any environmental issues that they attribute to the population or like in California, where we're we're we're fighting about salmon river striper, vs water, temps of the rivers and saltwater intrusion into the delta and loss of the delta? So a lot you can
pinpoint california strike populations by environmental changes. Are they like everything? Private? Probably some, like our values,
death by a thousand kurds right, I mean
every imperilled fishery, you, whatever you, can look in
go nome. I think
you go number by like how many things are contributing right, like
does one water matter damning
irrigation damning, destroyed straight bass, runs in many rivers, rights
Water quality and then you can sort of be like school. Do anything or you can look like major contributors.
and try to attack the problem in some way. That makes sense and maybe attack the problem across a wide variety of things. I can say that with you,
sabena aiming but an aids. I strive ass fishermen using an historic bass. Fishermen all these com forest, like.
their their work in their asses on the manhattan issue, which is a thing and also that they he whoever people they're doing that need to think about their catch in a way. That's pretty common for fishermen to do.
Can be guys theory on sharks, I'm not talking about how many sharks around we go. Let me put we're jumping that goes back to your your talk about the
Why and how not only I didn't even mean shark management. I just meant like dealing with sharks in the water. So, yes,
look or a year. A couple yells.
While we we heard a couple of the rio de vore, I heard it was in the water and a quarter mile away a lot better than mine. I couldn't hear all that hooting and once we heard you guys
we got over as quick as theirs.
People in the water after your photo shoot
there was lack lot song, but what I do
recall I'm gonna eileen low, because its zenith, I'm trying resources, seen no g left off all the parts while everything no I'm getting there.
I ran out order now
you couldn't turn often get started, resent they want,
virgin zone these gases dive and in a sweet spot. I just shot of fish.
Theft auto part where the other part, okay, what part so we have to. We have two rigs two rigs side by side, only about fifty yards apart, and so we put two divers an eatery way more.
Maybe seventy let me set the scene and then you bench as you can pick up ego for it when rigged. Okay, I'm going to give me a minute. I'm gonna go back
the seventies. I started ass, big ass oil rigs, the gulf of mexico, these oil rigs, our fish
magnets, they are manmade reefs and you want to talk about
objective realities, these rigs,
create life and create and enhance the fishery?
Normally, when your fish, when you dive into rig you dive, rig right where you go dive, this rig
and you go to the rig. Nobody is going to fish jumps and dives the rig. Then you go to another rig, but just so happen that are kept at the age. Difference in the captain and skipper is now the skipper owns the boat. Okay, our skipper
It took us to a spot worthier dive to rigs at once, color so close together that the boat contend to both
there was an anomaly war.
It is our
common, but thou. This trip
They were now molly to have two right next to each other, their normal
spaced far apart correct. So we we did that, and not just now in a couple. People nor like groups of toulouse, right separated by a hundred yards
go ahead, gesture well I'll! Let these guys go and then I'll end up. So I don't miss anything oreos. This is coming to oh yeah. No, someone's gotta explain the oreo.
we'll get into the shock stuff. So this is an area where we got. We call the oreo. We get the dirty water on top there's a clean layer down underneath the dirty words of explanation of dirt.
All dirty water, meaning like lesson, one foot, visibility,
I can see the end, your gun, it cannot. You can't kill me, I ask your hand and for any of your hand, my camera camera is someone's breathing up next year. You might be touching shoulders of them, but only be able to see their hand, yes,
you mean that the surface layer of dirty water might be five feet and might be sixty feet. You don't know until you drop through it, so that this area that's the way it does, the top cookie the top left. The top wafer was about five to ten feet,
spot, the lasting and then it up pretty clean, underneath they're down do about fifty fifty five feet and then it got dark again.
So this is the kind of every word Ivan.
and they say sometimes there's single those traditional that has resulted in us. No, a double stuff, double stuff: orioles, a nice that big band of clarity. This was a double stuff. Oreo. We're don't want yesterday at that spot. We're looking for mangroves neighbours and gregg had gregg had been on this rig and
had got himself a nice nice mangrove and a hell of a time will run our is huge school mangroves. I had been staying on
prior to that. Let let these guys get a couple of cup of fish and then greg up back on the boat and he's like hey. You want to get in, I'm like sure. Why not? I thought you said you wanted to get in
yeah Greg Greg failed to tell me. He'd also shot one that had gotten away ripped off one and then he chided one. Then he sort of chum the waters per se so mike, and I jumped in and did a little test dive to check it out on the first dive and everything looked good lots of fish around and second dive went down and found found a nice mangrove mike's fall on me. It's right above me, and
pulled the trigger and fitness fish getting it out of the rig and all of a sudden from the lower away for the dark side. Here comes the bull sharks to two very grown voles, which would be nine nine footers, probably eight nine foot pushing three hundred and fifty to four hundred pounds and that's a big one. Those are big ones and they were not happy. You know acting very erratic.
So then, as we come as I'm fighting the fish, not limit loan get to the fish, but then we get back up into the the top waiver where we can't see anything and so that where it gets a little scary,
what I see what I we hear, some yellin we look
and I see two men and they look like wet coon's treed,
the arm waving screaming hanging on to the oil rig we're we're hollerin we're hollerin for the boat to come over, because we want a good like to get out of the water tat point. I've got a full of a bleeding for fish
and it is up the ladder of the re. You left me biologists and the words my carry the can clear up the ladder of my rig screaming for years.
and there was a little delay. I think there was a photo shoot going on on the other. The deadly where they re not happen.
But she has don't. We want. I watched you
drivers in order, as we were there's a lot going on at once. So yes, anyway,
were successfully recovered, but it was pucker parker factory of nine point, nine! That's! What are these most surprised me about this? This whole thing
of being in salt. Water were sharks. Is it if not the presence of sharks that matters police, the demeanor of them.
Absolutely, which is like very true of grizzly, I'm totally used to that with grizzly bears yeah. There's sorta like oh, that's a grizzly bear minding it's own business, yeah doesn't matter, that's a grizzly! Bear that scared. When we do that we do have the shrimp boats the days before and dealt with hundreds and hundreds of sharks and nobody went
on back into the boat. It takes a lot to spook me like, like that. You know that last winter, when they act like that, that's another story: you everywhere
We were on the on the shrimp boats and we getting within a couple of bull sharks, come within a foot or two of me, and it's just one of those things. Have you they're not aggressive, though they're just being inquisitive and- and I don't recommend it- we spend a lot of time with the sang. So I may, if you don't,
the woods I would have no clue how to read a grizzly bear, but I have spent so much time in the water with a lot of different types of sharks, and I have a pretty good idea. What's going on with them,
in, for instance, when I got in there the first
I didn't know what I was doing an eye when the sharks came in
You guys around me, but I'd start
kicking a little mortar and like canada,
now they feed off your energy if you're, if you're, fidgeting or kicking a radically or creating bubble, and they are calm lapping. How many check me out, where you guys are just calm and sure
after you had told me hate it
to get out of the water yeah yeah yeah, yeah, there's, there's one bullet was getting a bit bit agitated and it's one thing: if you're, if you're by yourself or you're within another person's really experienced with sharks but yeah, we have that many people in the water. You got just kind of caught
haven t worry about it. There is a thing that also remind me a grizzly bears, which is.
You and I were soon back in about one time and then a big bull shark came up behind you.
and I was screaming and yelling interior.
And then he laughed and then he came
Behind me, in your literally push
the out of the way in charge them. That's mental,
The IRA there, like I, was like swam over me and ran Adam and eve like took off you and it's so
it would probably shit out of me. You know if they're, not in a feeding mode they're. You know they're just cruising around looking at stuff and they don't see people all that much hot air and it's one of those
things a if you in this way, if you're kicking away from it, so she with a carbon fins- and you know a spear guy, not stuff there. You look pretty big you
pre big, but there also like what the hell are. You
if you're swimming away from them, they're just going to keep on going what the heck's swimming away from me and he wasn't being a he was. He was inquisitive. I would say he had a aggressive body
It's too close for comfort and they get to a size where, like if they beat you'd, be a big deal to a bull shark. If a bull shark, listen to your angel know those those aren't shocked them to joke around with so yeah you gotta square up on them, and it's one of those things of last. The last thing you know you can do as a as a bailout as java spear gun you can, you can poke it away, which will generally get them to kind of go away.
sometimes it'll piss them off a little bit, but yeah you gotta get square upon them. Let them know that you gotta, think you're, say six feet tall with three foot: long fins, you're nine feet long you're, pretty imposing you just gotta kind of not show that you're trying to either flee or you're you're, not scared of it.
Mike you we're watching the bull shark footage
yesterday you had an interesting observation about their caught. You said they're, cautious and sharks. Are, I think it is. I did a guadalupe trip to and did great whites into the sharks would never
I mean close. It took him a long time that swim around they'd swim under and they'd watch us moot looked this way and then they sneak game because if they get hurt, they're going to die. So if a shark has an opportunity- and it thinks that it's good- it's gonna take it, but otherwise I feel like there
we're pretty cautious, calculated yeah. It's observation like if he gets messed up he's dead,
they can afford, or they can afford to lose an irish voters and the like the exactly so the not looking to be dumb and they're. All big ones are all other bit that there
No, they don't. They got that way by not making dumb mistake. What's an old shark.
Yeah. I don't know the lifespan of abortion gateway to prolong with, while some of the green light greenland sharks and such like other extreme oil.
I think a great way it can be like thirty years old is something like that. Do that research, oh just to catch up the red wiggler is native to europe, about that
Oh yeah zones. Looking here real quick, coordinate the chesapeake bay programme, having heard them for fourteen years, verbal shark is average life expectancy.
What if expectancy, is actually short they they can live to be at least fourteen years old. They grow up faster, yeah, now the oldest so,
the oldest known bull shark, thirty, two average of sixteen years in the wild. It seems like a lot of things in the ocean lifespans about thirty years. Bigger animals jester doesn't look good for us life expectancy of things in the ocean
it s three year less than two, I got two more years. What are we
Stanley, what are all the kinds of sharks you see in this in this environment like like Brandon? How would you describe where, like like sort of like ecosystem wise, you would say, were I mean we're in the
over at the mouth of the mississippi, but in the salt water? Far as what what type of sharks are, we
like Norway, where where'd you say, whereat right, a planetary sense.
louisiana for your political. Do her and I'm not talking about the mississippi river delta is certainly starting to adult that turns into a full on ocean right,
You ve been in the motor how many miles and you hit the ledge. Well here,
found venice were as close to the continental shelf as you can get in the gulf of mexico hm. That's what makes our fishery well that animate and the river delta so special, or our proximity to close to deep water and to the the loop current. So we have shelf rigs and we've got all our eight nearshore rigs that are being fed by the by the delta. So you get a lot of nutrients coming out lot of bait, which feeds the the the fishery and in proximity to that thousand foot, and then your proxy and your
in close proximity to that deep, deep water to that luke current. That also, then pushes the pelagics and things like that. It is. Is there a lotta like natural reefs, or is it a lot of mud because of the dealt in and stuff come in?
we have very little natural re. Fear we have some more and more to the west, but mostly mud, and then we ve got the works, so the oil rigs have are man made.
Basically, I want to get into that you're. Getting there now sure.
there are in the gulf some estimate of five thousand oil rigs
You're on the number, but that sounds that sounds feasible. That's what our research to yup, I'm sure someone can tell you down to the down to the down to brass tacks, but at some point I'm sure that was was accurate, so around five thousand there. Ah, they became very popular like how, however, one felt about offshore oil extraction in the gulf in fossil fuels, and all that you can't get around one fact is that the rigs created.
A lot of sea life, accessible sea life, accessible fisheries congregate around the rick's. So as rigs or Brazil, all these five thousand rigs are being brought off line taken out of production as they moved operations or abdel there's been a question what to do with all these things in their enormously part,
There were fishermen at a time they had the rigs three programme trick that combine the eighties
and they they've done a bunch of things with so song gonna try to just based on my understanding from talking to you guys and others reading, and they talk
with with like trying to make them not a navigational hazard, so
cutting them off what fifty feet down sixty feet down varies very little deeper than that typically think about seventy five feet.
Seventy? Five eighties about is below the water level, so that the biggest valuable girl, caribbean, deeper, even deeper, solvent biggest vessel, could pass over correct and not tag the top of the real. So it's out of the way of shipping correct but is down to provide and fish habitat. They have also met with just mentioned.
It just tip over it's in deep enough water, where you tip the whole thing over at it's base and they would dynamite them and that create a lot of controversy.
Because that kills every damn thing on the rig. Yep yeah they'd have these huge just miles of fish, just floating, which was rather than cutting them off at the base. They would dynamite the bases and pull them over that it would. That was something out of the past. They they they've gotten rid of that
the blasting yet another cut him off. The sheer mauve cut him off wherever in then
during the obama administration. They started the idle iron I'll act, which was a push to just all together wholesale removal.
And as your deck put it one,
done is named. Beer can return to natural state on the bottom,
Correct David, David Rowe holds sure that they'll run I'm like a heavy duty trawl over the area when they're done, removing it to make sure they got rid of absolutely everything. Even sub certainly cut the daf subsurface
all the way to the up, if not blow,.
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And I think, last year alone, they are moved like a couple hundred rigs out of the gulf. I think I heard our friend ronnie and he's got a good friend who works and that in that business and actually removing is so they were scheduled to take out another hundred and fifty this year
You have heard a hundred fifty to two hundred a year. There's boats out ply in the waters called rig, reapers and I've been doing destroy them in doing that, they ve been doing that taxes for years taxes, landscape of the fishery has completely changed. They don't have many rags over there
You ain't gonna get up on I've. We pulled up on rigs. You had on your gps to find that it was gone. There's like that.
in star wars may go to that plan today, there any more americans the deaths
I'd like to get them like it's gone and it happens fast habits, vessels.
I wish her a couple weeks ago,
he's not here anymore, like it's god, let's just put in
perspective too, on the life around these, which I was so surprised that when I was, I didn't have gloves on one day and you can swim up to these and hang on to him and kind of rest and had my hand on these barnacles, which are
like heavy duty barnacles anywhere from a penny to like a big silver dollar kennedy,
as maybe a lot of them, and they have
All's inside of a man, I had my hands on there and I was like tat
I what the heck's going on their crab inside one of em, I was getting bitten by little. Fish will go and they re all your hand on, and I just then has a video where
can see like five of these little fish just sit and in those holes. So it's cool. To put it into perspective. You can see
anywhere from the smallest little micro organisms. Then you know get see. Small
little fish attracts bigger fish to eat those fish and adjust all the way up to bull sharks and goliath, grouper it. Since this whole
go system. One is a reef from the tiniest organism to the biggest it's it's its own ecosystem presence of presents a sharks is a healthy ecosystem.
yeah they're very healthy em, if you, if you were to see- and you can go
well a lot of places in the world and not see the life that is on these things, it's a very, very healthy ecosystem and when they remove them, it's completely gone, but
What is it, what is the main argument you guys know of why they want these out just to return at ten natural. Looking state of,
I think you're gonna get now clear at all. I mean there's a lot of your answer. I think that in europe- and I think, there's a lot of theories- I think there's a lot of money by it. I think there's a whole industry being fed by making millions of removing these and
scrap value, there's no way the scrap value pays for pulling those things out of the water, but the cut the costs to pull off they're, also getting paid to pull them out of the water.
Yeah the integrity of recycling. There was a lina which is one of the very. It was a deeper water rig of about one thousand feet of water. It was removed a year and a half ago,
well two years ago, you had to have it right before there, and I believe that the numbers I saw that the cost to remove it was two billion dollars to remove it and that only concern they just took the top deck off, and then they cut it at the base and teetered it over in one thousand feet of water, two billion. So there's some there's some
his money, but I don't, but the people tasked with removing them are not driving the policy. I don't like I'm pro rig. I think they should be left as habitat. I do too, and I'd put it look like
I told him I'll go I'll share with third I'll share again my my my solution cut off whatever number fifty percent of them: seventy five percent of them, but then put them on a pile somewhere else.
So put cut three off and piling on top of every fourth mega reef. There's this the subjects pin
mind revisited revisited over, I mean when when this started happening, and there was a lot of people that were very passionate about fighting against it because you know, as you lose a rig, that you've been diving for x amount of years and then it's gone, and you know how much life's on that rig, and I think a lot of people would would agree if, if some of, like you know the environmental groups- or you know, people that are passionate conserving nature were to drive any of these things they would go. Why are we removing these things, but obviously there's there's something bigger at at hand here, and it's not like the the the divers at dive. Em are just passive
Adam being removed. Yeah there's been a lot of fighting and research and it's not like they didn't try to put up resistance. Oh yeah, and I don't want. I don't want to seem like I'm underplaying like ray know, it's anyone's stake in the game or like how how it's been approached. I, but I, but I
If I had to get in the mind of arm,
like getting the mind your side of that would be that this sort of ideal and and this idea in certain political circles that
or, like me like that that mining drilling infrastructure is bad and that when you
men and do in operation like a book,
oil drilling whatever it is,
but in the end you
you do your remediation right right. You bring a bag. Of course you can do what it was before you did it,
and that is driving sort of like the reduction. This then you probably have also like people, can probably make a case that it's like human health hazard.
Because, as they decay, they can fall over
Oh could hit them, so they got that under weighing that
she's on the bottom, the ocean for current uses and later uses in salt and that's driving the conversation and that people who are looking to the fishery are being undervalued or other there.
Importers of being listened to you I mean, there's no he's under consideration. I have only allow things apply here. I mean I d, you got it you looking at the the oil industry right I mean that is a massive animal and
it's one of those things have you know you can be passionate about a recreational activity, but I mean yeah at the end of the day, you're not going to have the funds. Was it's a lot more than a recreational activity
It took about an entire fishing industry down and it is as an industry as far sport fishing go sport, sport, fishing charter, fishing, the recreational sign, the commercial fishery. You remove all of these out of here. Then it's gonna completely change
Does that whole industry, the crossword? It's look like an unto unintended consequences thing is
I don't think anyone Pra made. Maybe I mean maybe some biologists, and maybe some biologists when they are putting all that stuff in maybe some biologists is like some day. This is going to be a fish maka because of all of the reef habitat you're creating
a lot of the remediation you're talking about may be only comes out coal mines and things like that. This is different, because the what has resulted has been what has been left from. It is a positive they've created something positive by building these created a new ecosystem that that is wonderful, that's different than like drilling a coal mine and then just leaving it is. This is a positive. Yes, there is a navigational hazard. Are there ways we could could go about
fixing that and yet still maintaining, that ecosystem ethic electronics is taking care that problem for you. I would thinks I mean that everything is on. The map know
we have run radar everybody's got eyeballs that the type of ships that they're worried about hitting these things have the electronics and the technology to avoid them, and the giant horns on all these.
I think that third states chestnuts, the the fight has been going on for a long time. It's just not gain interaction. How their put new,
examine cars, not really really. So we are the only ones I see going in our deep water, the floater rigs. Oh yeah, he has some deep water ones are drawn new wells out. There cause those drill, ships.
We were near are just basically idle those.
those are sitting idle right now. Those are waiting to be deployed ha sub.
Real ships that are active or out in three four five thousand feet of water right now. Draw new new wells and the big thing with these rigs is that an you sought. Not every rig is as good as you know. There are. Some rigs have been removed. That work in may I mean alina. I was lucky enough to dive Lena and it was this massive structure that was absolutely amazing.
It was right there on the shelf, it had coral tropical fish, it had everything on it. It was. It was amazing, yeah yeah, I was lucky enough. I did my friend Joe eggman took me
the deep scuba either you just as you know, as a frida retouch does the surface of it and then, when you do like a deep scuba diving, they thanks it's. This is amazing. I mean that them the size of the amber jack in the size of the red snap and everything is just emanates from top to bottom life and the size of the
you're sharks. From what I heard very big tigers on those big deepwater rigs,
well they're they're around, but like all this, the the biggest tiger shark I have ever seen was off of Lena, I mean it was it was. It was like a scene out of jaws of like just yeah. I did a triple take on it,
we feel deep was that one thousand, the rigs, those ellison thousand feet
so you're saying to you that a thousand feet but again dived down.
at one hundred feet, you're still encountering more and more and more fish down that day. So I think we did a. We did a deep scuba to about two thirty and it I mean it didn't didn't, stop everything got bigger the deeper you went. I miss this amberjack. Had I mean it's just these huge jowls, it's the biggest amberjack. I think I've ever seen. It was just
monster. It was just it's all all I'd reach for freedom, talking about like one hundred plus oh yeah, wait well over a hundred with smaller ones, behind it and red snapper and grouper, and I mean that's really yeah. It's just amazing. Like you said, if you went somewhere and just did a reef dive that looked like these rigs look, I mean it would be absolutely jaw dropping well, that's why I asked Brandon, I'm like why don't I see more scoop operations around, because this is like the ultimate place, the subaru
if you want to see fish and then you brought up the the liability issue, yeah huge liability issue and people. You know people that are really experienced, rig, diving, diabetes, for example, shoes, so
things if they go to the issues you run into scuba diving,
you get hung up while one depends on how deep you're diving, but a lot of people push it on these rigs into deep scuba and don't you know they get knocked out or they don't do proper decompression?
times wise as it gives you the rear its this fit the spear fishing side, a spear fishing as our vision, saddened area are in deep water. You know you my bid, scuba diving on a four hundred and eight before hundred feet to the bottom. You can easily
track of how deep you are yep, god and the water is so crystal clear right. You saw some of it's just you can keep on going and go shoot. You know a couple hundred interview,
Plus sit down and when you other variability,
of our water with that that dirty water? On top in this that it doesn't necessarily attract clear your average recreational skip it over and then at the crossroads. Earnestly to I mean, there's people that get blown out of these things right will be a top current going. One way, though, dropped
and then the current will be gone. The other way and then say your you should affair sure that some of these currents that we are we're lucky these currents were pretty calm when we were in there, but they get really going and you'll get blown out of the rig
You have. You do and I like to say to stop our way up on a scuba and europe will say
we're off the side of the rig. You could easily pop up a half a mile away. It's been a. We have that we have these free dive and scuba spearfishing rodeos every summer. As a couple summers ago we had a diver lost, fortunately was able to be recovered, but it was quite the mission, but he just came up too far from his boat yeah. He I mean he came, he was doing a safety stop and that crosscurrent got him. Yes, when you're doing the steep scuba is right. If you dropped to two hundred feet, you have to decompress at a certain point so say you do a safety stop at fifty feet or thirty feet, and the current is so strong that you get pushed off the out of the rig into the open water will have two choices: either surface and get knocked. You have to go into the decompression chamber and, or you continue on your safety, stop and then pop up. We hadn't be a long way so and the surface so the boat, the the current at the surface, may be different than what it was down in where that or the diver was at
So the vote's going to be looking at way down current thinking that the divers over here while he's not, he actually went that way. So that does great yeah creates a whole other hazard good. The other has it hard to hang out on the surface with those tanks are to ditch the tank.
Now, if you are now you and you didn't think you'd blow your bc, just we could flow, but.
but your robin. Who knows it's going to be you're, pretty small out there and a big big ocean
The other danger that I was never used to is having to ascend with my hand above my head, because the water seems so clear. It's just like you can reference where you are. You can look up, but then that whole murky layer or you know you could be running into different things like you're saying, like offshoots of the rig, and that kind of was
this factor every time we're going up. You know, there's gonna, let us remove, there's been a lot of errors that have then been killed. That way, you know hitler
on the way up. Island you're now knocks you out and they knock out just think how much of a like like how how much of a trade secret
well, can you basely described the whole shrimp boat thing from both
sure. There is a thing called a sure thing. Yes, it's very well known is very well known. It's very well known. I can't talk too many details. You don't need to talk to me
details but at length, but I got a veto vanish from, but there are fish behind them
the korea- and why are those fish behind those shrimp boats? There's a lot of bycatch that the shrimp boats offload therapists lot of shrimp heads because they
had all the shrimp in all manner of everything everything here, I think it's a
turn of one. There was a couple
Just like the fish there
the lot affairs. We were glad to find some some of those angered moored up shrimp, shrimp birds, think they were taken the day off, probably determine at night, and
get a little bit of german and if you go to the right one there's fish can be fit. There can be fish more often than not. You've got one hundred rounds, it's not every everyone has
and I asked
came down here. With I mean I had know, I'm not like adults. I seldom go to do something where I'm like I'm my goal. I wanted to get a cobia and I wanted to get a kobe, real, bad, a
cover sort of almost more my favorite fish. When you got a double one of my favorite viz. May my favorite last year right
This one last year, colleague almost like tick them a little bit the mythical oil yeah. It was close,
I went down to the water and then like looked up somehow, where you came from out of them use right above those behind. You came rather quiet over my
never hole on the back of his throat, like
ya and touched one off and like
They may like a slight sound as if the fight it off the side of his of himself and I'll tantalised titillated titillated, and this year we jump.
in I was like. Oh, you know at some point, I'd like to get a cobia. You know everything happens fast, underwater yeah.
But I jumped in the water also just like there is a cobia, their inquisitive. In my face.
so like coming in the hand out noise, you pass by noise bubbles, thrashing came into do passed by, and I got a call me but too quick,
I got It- calls you easy was too easy.
I don't want you click district. I got another cobia, those also too quick.
Again. So I think what I want is I wanted to. I wanted dived down have come by a bunch
in a dive down and you can buy a bunch of times and I dive down. I'd get a shower, but it doesn't go like that. I call him in
or the one you shot was a a writer on. When I had my second one, the second one yeah I shot a kobe that was chasing greggs, shot tobia
which happened in an eye
the first shot of the copious chase. You call me the first korea shout just came from it came blasting through that was on a shrimp boat, yep yeah. That was a big one. Too was a nice one.
a scratch that it and we're in Rinaldo family law for my mother, there's like old, black and white photos where my mother, when she was a young woman, caught a big cobia in this city and that's a often talked about thing,
its price, because there's an old black and white photo of it. So I got like you know me that kept its has traction over the years
toby amartya sen, ionian measures if the sea
even further shrimp boat in a black and white, with a go with Putin, father, so retired cobia
red stabber man's mahars interests. We target red snapper where last year, when I was here, it was growing from wrong for
Saturday sunday, yes every saturday sunday as a recreational through two per day, sixteen into minimum rating
was two per day last year. It went to three this year. It is sixteen inch sixteen inch, so you can. You can target reds dapper friday
saturday, sunday and on holiday weakens like fourth of July. You also get the monday or the thursday if it happened to fall on that holiday, so we targeted those mangroves there
There is much more liberal today, seven days a week, ten day, ten day within your there,
the cumulative aggregate, so you can have a say three resin, avars and seven mango.
To make your target, you can have three reds and ten manga
yup very similar, like waterfowl, is managed that way. It will be like six docs, not more of which right eye, and then we then the top of the last thing we targeted
course. I can check we target trip. I came up with
pictures we chart targeted drivel tail with
sport or a rod and reel people get a little touchy about because they want that to be just for them. That's, okay. They didn't see the lily pads. We found them, it's not like a general spot. You just have to go, find the spot, know much guarded or a guarded secret trip hotel spa. Should we target troop pill spots and, and that's really something dirty wire like so dirty? It's just you can. How can a scrap like the best you can see is the kind of get like you get if you you're looking up, if you're down at twenty feet, looking up towards the sky, you see shadow
You see no fish detail, it's a shadow there. Everything is just like anything you might see if it's either maud are kind of a shadow in very spooky,
typically off we're all pictures. We chart targeted drivel tail which sport rawdon real people get a little talk about. They want that to be
for a guy there, that wants to be in the head with the guy somewhere in there, a guy without holding your breath somewhere as a guy with a bear head, and you gotta hold your breath. Some big bull sharks, yeah, that's the guy off the bed
The guy was a vet, came on the boat and yeah that ain't for the faint of heart is really intimidate, really intimidate. Yeah yeah I've had I've I've taken a couple of of close friends that have dove all over the place to do that, and they did one dive and they're. Like
Rebecca about, I would have a reality, would have died down. If someone was saying it's possible out of doors down said the like. What's the point again, so they cannot do it, you cannot do it tat. We targeted way
either to want to be in the head with a guy somewhere
I don't need them yet rush, the large mouth out of the way so out of court.
Washing out of the delta, are up rooted. Why, like this, there are massive put withdrew, big huge chauncey lilypads floats on everyone,
that ain't for the vienna is really intimidate. Right.
River ray. I would have told down some wasn't saying it's possible out of doors down like. What's the point, absolutely cannot do it, you cannot do it.
Sarcasm, we lines it's just that
you're sure version of it that the more he would be offshore. But these are we'll get the triple tail on small jack fish,
the lily pass and they are in some mark-
are enduring. Are thirty larry intimidating, yes, sneaky added eddying follow stay over the characters. I just be bumping into the whole time desire to say so close to him so you're here to go
the governor make me nervous and we had to wait a wretched romania's right on my back. I hang on the about. While we see lord around our awesome,
I don't really know, because I don't know I mean this has to be means- has be up there with the richest fisheries of
I think so I mean I've been all over the world. You here likes that band around southeast alaska is sorted. The more the richest marine ecosystem on earth like that latitude banned in terms of just pounds of life. The water supports when you get into plankton up right, I'd like per unit of space pounds of life that it supports, is this pipe and in some areas
like you know, you might think of like hawaii like so many fish right, but hawaii like you, have areas offshore hawaii to regarded something as a desert dip. It's like something of a marine desert, massive massive amounts of very deep water, inhabited by very few fish right there. There and but they're cut they're like concentrated in select places, and if you didn't know what you're doing you could go along, you could spend a ton of time drifting along on the surface staring down in nazi shit like all in the middle of the pacific, even though you think like oh tropical, no one around must be loads of fish. That doesn't necessarily mean there's loads of fish everywhere, but here man, it's incredible. The gulf. The gulf is incredible. It is one of one of a kind and that's why removing there exists
such an issue, because it's it's a special place and every time you come down here, you need to enjoy it because the next time you come back that rick had begun, and it's one of those things of it's. You can come down here and take all of it for granted, but it's one of those things have you know some of the first rigs that I dove are now gone and it's one of those things have yeah. You have to taft enjoy it while you're down there, ronnie and Ronnie who's been on the show before he described, losing rigs
as he said, it's like losing a friend yeah. It is good. I wonder if it was like here before the rigs historical data on it was there, I'm sure are same fish but yeah. I think they were just. Obviously they they're. We have a few few reef areas, so I would assume that they would be more congregated to this. The small reef areas spots that we respect our mean I've seen some pictures gone back to like the fifties, but mostly like tuna and things that they caught back, then that the rigs aren't necessarily that relevant to the tuna fishery. I mean they are to a certain extent now, because it concentrates him. So he can go target them, but back in those days I think maybe
with the it was more of a trolling. You know you go out troll a rip things like that, but now now yet now the rigs are what's attracting them. I just thought the whole debate is at risk of beating the subject to death. I think you have to like whatever it was before letting you could go back to nineteen hundred guy. You go back
Nineteen hundred and we had like some kind of baseline data about the fishery nineteen hundred I dont know that that's complex, that's not necessarily coming back
You know they removing the rigs as they can return, because of because a why? Because of a thousand things that can be better, no, it won't unwanted
my it might be better now with the rigs. But if you look at like like someone innocent
it'll come and say like one on a row. It was spectacular in that red. The red, the red snapper fishery was amazing and nineteen one hundred okay, but she has changed since ninety one hundred I mean you have a lot of industrial pollutants.
Come down the river, you have habitat degradation in other ways. You have over the overfishing in international waters I dunno on and on and on and on and on so I dunno, let's come back, but what is
working right now like what's working right now, he's got it the rigs so like to try to think that to chase something you're the innocent. Instead, it was great a hundred years ago is like there's, no guarantee that that's where you're going. If you have a thing, that's like a bright shining spot right now, hang on what you have it's good
T what's not working right now here is our shark problem. We have a serious sharp problem was sure you, as in sea it
odin come down the river. You have habitat degradation, other ways you have over the over fishing in international waters, autonoe Non, so I don't know it's come back, but what is working right now? It's like! What's working right now, he's got it the rigs git so like to try to think that to chase something you the innocent instead, it was great a hundred years ago is like there's, no guarantee that that's where you're going. If you have a thing that's like,
much arcs its immediate. It's it's really a problem that the item and not saying that they need to call them, but that, but they need rink, some kind of balance, taking more localised approach to the management, their legs actually open. Some areas where the doing great that yeah that's all
Diana more local, localised management of it would be, would be ideal. Floor, examine the same problem,
Erin a shark, a shark tournament in florida this week because of the saint saint
you get all blow back
people there. I mean. There's lots of people
never been in the water that because they watch,
natgeo, they have this opinion on sharks and they watch too much shark week. So my instagram blew up the last night because of the church term in florida and all the shark, a follower.
This is you know how I love sharks, but you know if there's an issue with too many sharks, then the other lake in California. I talked to a marine biologist that studies all sharks, the great whites, and he said that in recorded history there has never been so many sea lions on the california coast, and there is now in the sea. Lions are an issue and not that they're never going to goal or do anything that the sea lions, but like because they're furry people. You know like him too much yup
furry charismatic mega fauna. Scott eyelash has got eyelash lisbon water blank,
really new, agile blanks
and to tell people how, even though they can't book a spear fish trip, that's your that's! Your recreational passion, yeah get ahold. Image
and he said the recorded history. There's never been so many sea lies in the covering person. There is now in the sea. Leather initially
on both of those or brandon interactions, sward fishing and spear fishing on its.
facebook? I gotta warn you that you gotta be ready to be in a boat with a guy that wants to catch fish, savage, no. I do like to catch fish or somewhere else, but want to be very focused on the capture of fish. I would go to this. Guy is a great brand and think it's fun like the
hey now these great you'll learn a lot from your your intense about your discipline
they will be we're paying to go out. Some work, that's what they expect and you produced look at how much of the fish requested area with
is of making making whether raising diving waiting a team of good divers stairs
but as a guide like you expect say they, like your your versatile meaning, like you're, going off your obsessive about current information, yet not the way the water slowing, which is part of kerr information but you're in
As an like. What's going now, the weather was going down with water temperatures. Water clarity be flexible.
do right, there's a lot of work to do that that don't work you do there that don't work! You do that like there's. A lot of things need to be to be like good, efficient yeah, as you can put it there's two kinds of people in this world as fishermen and those that wish they were
information, not the way the water slowing, which is part of her information for your interest and like what's
yes to the chamber, exit telephones were to find you gregg or where to find you
Product assortment yeah, it's robin diving, dot, com,
time. You look up problems for guns, you somewhat pop up as they do with me, and if you have a question about rob,
Also, if you were in your in inner in the u s, avail probably want to target gregg yeah if its. If it's in the? U s you'll end up talking to me for my wife, for one of one, a guys at the shop and then, if it gets fed to south africa or private gets back to me,
You're right, you thought you'd taxes. Also south africa. While you talk you great yoda reagan related
Might you imagine, cause you're a photographer and all that you're on social, yet rape photo and rape photo dot com through a spell of people are a a b e p h, o t a guy. You need a picture, some tape.
or a man, can you ran, and maybe it makes workin on a cooler white sea bass. Documentary out from under the air glum actually is
hopefully I'll be done filming and then on to adding an open to have like a premiere. This
dirty December january, and then I'm going to submit to film festivals. You can call it all about white sea bass.
So I'm gonna do a photo, a contest instagram and see what people names people can give me.
in the winter or get a print. I seventy three. What name a white c mon document advise the hardest is like soup? Do not some white see
that's right, elbow like behaviors and then I'll be human impact from the natives
Do gill netting too
the ph rodya needed pictures uptake.
They stopped unity in ninety to suspend thirty years, so it can coexist. Thirty years less been receiving surpassing what gill many the stopping of gilding once done ice in the union, decimated was, he was.
Johnson, yet married to Kimmy Warner. So if you go look at kimi werner stuff, it's mostly take images. You can find me at cami sway me on instagram:
yeah, I know, but we are.
we do ya insurmountable cinematography, but we have some exciting
things coming out with mediator to all coming out. This far so are working with me.
Wife came on that and my somebody on that too- and I saw this far- you have some cool episode series and videos and things like that. Just dive master over here still at moscow, jet muskie, chet, jolt, tommy ads and after he came in and did trivia and perform so well because it works
Have dug from the blue collar scholar, I love it. I didn't changes at. He went secure.
Do they really lou collars holler schuyler fortress driver, trivial matter? I get my legs lot,
Everyone. Its put ball season, I'm in here this joined by a couple arrowes marks, excellent rig rose authority. Tell you about around me and avail, the most insightful guess. They're, almost every day we ve got podcast. We recap all the latest league news. We ve got the sunday night flagship so and most importantly, we continue to annoy margaret around the end of a serious football podcast that doesn't take itself to seriously listen to the round. The interval pod guess all seas along on the eye, hard radio, app on apple podcast or wherever you get your pockets rachel banana here as to the bench with banana podcast, and now the anna fell game day view pod can join me. Cynthia, freeland bright grows and thought, and Patrick clave on as we break down the week of games or going to give you our predictions on things such as how many points
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Transcript generated on 2022-09-20.