« The MeatEater Podcast

Ep. 364: Physics and Fatality

2022-09-05 | 🔗

Steven Rinella talks with Bill Vanderheyden, Brandon Palaniuk, Janis Putelis, Chester Floyd, Hayden Sammak, Phil Taylor, and Corinne Schneider

Topics discussed: Who stole the office fish?; graduating first in your engineering class out of 1,232 students; Brandon Palaniuk wins angler of the year; get tickets to see Chester open for Trampled By Turtles on Dec. 1 in Atlanta; when hunter safety advises that you keep your harvest covered so as not to offend non-hunters; chisel heads; the formulas that go into shooting your bow; mass vs. speed; the draw force curve; Newton’s Law; busting through bone; breaking down 3:1; blood trails; Bill’s Iron Will Outfitters broadheads; and more.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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the meat eater podcast coming at you shirtless severely voted bit in my case underwear list, the meat eater podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel from merino base layers to technical outerwear for every hunt. Burst light, go farther stay longer barter by joined today by a biased we tell us. I have assumes alone my heart aches years. See me so long. You introduced me like a guest. I know the hell were you bid? We were all very abrupt I'll think about it. The other day we hunt used to hang out every day like brothers,
That's on a diet as a society that something changed they were like. Oh do your own show jani next thing. You know it's been months near. The phone call. Don't you know where is it I feel like. I do more to keep in touch, though, because member, like I asked, if you want to come, get some fish and stuff like that. Yep, you didn't steal fish, The freezer did some mysterious or listen we're bringing it and we have found it. Were we got some hot leads: I'm we're bringing into polygraph examiner and you're. The first gag polygraph chester, star, literal bounty posted for this for only dollar bounty. We want to bring in a polygraph along a start, peel and people in here, and we can have a guy right on air polygraph and people. I can tell you that what you start out with some soft balls you like way from mister because, like a little baseline and in any get into stuff like so, did you put the freezer the worth of cooler gesture?
I don't know where the cooler is. It could be that once it is right that was empty, sitting in their we're get through it. Yeah? You aren't you behind on your last good or bad for the person that accidentally took that been accidentally. I got another way. I'm trick people into first not do because there are some barracuda owner. no, there lies a new where a good eye, froze the whole barracuda to experiment with it. Then you told me to keep the barracuda in my freezer for spencer, I have a dream, I was really lose the barrack. You know gradually resumed gladdening pursue that light. Invested we'll find out I got my eyes on you gesture because the polygraph examiners going to probably want to talk to you or to talk to you about how to lead an investigation. We're probably gonna try to bring in someone who deals with sex crimes, but what do you think? What do you think I did? What would you think I don't eat fish, so why would I take it? Because if
we can derive neurology if we brought detectives in they'd? Probably first talk to you, I guess that's why while Lewis may be like he's just space good that he has no idea what happened. Oh before we get into our main jan he's, not actually our main guest, oh Aha nominal. Ask me to talk about that. No yeah with jordan bud we're. Caribou. It was fun here. Found the bears. we saw one sow with a couple. Cobb's say thing like we saw last time like super blonde, like mega fuzzy, you know even two miles: you can see the south, were blown in the wind and the cubs. Had they been by themselves. You too said others too. Small black bears yeah, bearer. We saw that were on their sheep on her And yet one wolf try to buy a camp, but maybe hundred fifty orders and we we do and out o the appalled and fling while there are now it is our bows and arrows
Have we had a rifle with you, but it was good until we were too good days, caribou action and then the care we got, They turn left and right or some of them here, didn't you the end of the herd or they swung different direction. That early I learned a lot about caribou movement cause. We actually got to talk to local biologist right before we flew out. He stopped by and chit chatted and that early there is no real migration god and in general, that forty mile herd doesn't have like. I always thought was a very Sorry, I guess I got linear east to west movement is not just a one. It's a circular movement itself, This goes, counterclockwise sometimes goes clockwise in they happened to go into canada, and back in the alaska. You know as they do this movement, but the earlier in the season, the more spread out they are and the more there just small our group's and is gone other different directions, and you
We have always heard how erratic caribou can be. We ve kind seen erratic movement on the hans it we ve been on together by mean this was seriously like watching them and we didn't have any bugs or with that like two per cold night, the first night we got there and so really know bugs entire weakens, wasn't bugs, but let us be watching the cariboo. This move in less a straightest hypothetically staffs and feeds retentive he made it takes up. His head, turns nine degrees and spreads two hundred yards. thousand. I didn't bogs on him now and then stopped I feel a little bit, and maybe he starts for thirty seconds and pulls the shame shit again or he stops for an hour's either our satellite you just get and clear of his flies. I mean just like maddening to the point where you like well we're a stock on our let's go. Two hundred yards tour, behind it causes bite is turn around and run towards us, like we
it was very hard to pick em off who hardly get adam order. Just like that might be a defence mechanism. I appointed alaska, the last two years. I saw the same thing they might stop in in fee it s just stand still vulnerable met, and I just pick up and run yeah and and two bad? So I thought so too me. Maybe they know like. I can't stay still too long. Now Daphne could be a year now is the voice of bill vander hayden from iron will broad heads too. And pointed out here. The he was he graduated number one out of one thousand two hundred and thirty, two students at university of mechanical engineering brought it he's going to shock the corn on broadheads. That's going to drop some science on these drops of science, honest and there's. There's there's there's broadhead controversy too. I dunno if people are aware that we're going to get into because we're talk about what happens when you shoot sharp stuff at animals and
and in workers. Honour in in were how your success in your failure can Come down to what equipment you use and not just words, put it. But what happens when you put it there but two we got some awaiting online. We have the angler of the year waiting online, we're not talking about wallet we're talking with real anger of the year. That is just des yeah. You know I was trying to think of like like cause. I cause this whole thing like I don't want to be demeaning but ass? You like, like bass, vision. not like. I would. I would rather have one wall Ivan ten law. I grew up in a large, mostly which I want to Brandon who's on the phone, but I have one wall eye, ten bass, saddam mean this as like. I'm not. This isn't a dig, but the bass anger veer. That's like the nba when the wall angle views like the w nba
it's like meaning like it's just has a lot less awareness like a lot less awareness. Is that fair? I dunno about the w N b. A might even be like a lot. Less awareness might be, College lacrosse The atmosphere listened as okay, here's the thing I was listening to bill burr's new special best. Let's watch him walk this back or you know I thought I was watching. I was watching bill burr's new special in bill burr's song about these conversations endless conversations about the w nba where he likes to do as he likes to go to his friends, who are women and say: oh, oh, Name, your top, your your favorite, five w nba players. got any rise. It. No one can name that that the people there like like Can anyone here
I doubt that was his point. I think everybody can aim. One with the minorities in russia is go for. Having like some, perhaps anyhow, Oh oh gesture,. just as in way oars waiters. What do you mean? gesture, is goin gestures. Opening day did announce. You, people had an article on Syria they are ass. There are thirty five at a later date, if jester yeah, it'd you ought to see. If I want to see chester I used to yet now I up yet now I gotta go Astor there, you as each day and eight dollars service charge. Go to ticketmaster to see jester just chaster is oh. Name for trampled bites hurdles. Giles chichester is generally termed an opening.
If you want to see him take it. we'll. Take it mastery, it's going to be great, or I can tell you where he lives yeah, I'm even I'm trying to write some. Some. Catchy originals to do just what it be in You pick up a guitar. how many years ago I got a little over two years now through skippin in line? I know I plan to days valley had talent tell us about what your plan is. I'm gonna show I'm gonna play for twenty five to thirty thousand you're gonna write original, see mostly gonna sing covers I'm sing. Some covers yoda mostly covers, and then, if I feel that my originals are up to power and not to cheesy I'll play a couple of them
what I found the chester right now has about forty five. Career advisers. Every area was, I Here's what I do jester died: vaseful crypto me whose like never ever players or sing about here's, what you use it. That line up should be gesture. So what's new monitors going, we gotta figure that out we already initiatives, namely, I think is stage name and everything like you know you Like it should be like madonna, but issues be chester I'm not about to be just the molester, but that sets like. Then you could get it weird people in the crowd the light where's, the part about the last thing. I want my money back and I think it's just be that he plays as chester. That's when I, them to put on the poster. I love it. I really I d originals man how long how many along emmy songs along in a play probably like eight nine ten songs, which will be
twenty five minutes. That's the biggest! I because chester speeding through this career so fast, it's like it's like six months from now he's going to be he's going to odin yeah, you get a hotel six months, I'll put the gs, output I'll, put the link to tickets out on my instagram, so you can go buy some in atlanta, georgia, And what's the date somber. First, how many people you playing in front of a thing is like fifteen hundred or if I can make it down You should send first regarding we're going out and we got it A thing hurt or yours, we'll go to
I can pre, sell the target store and be like. I need a bunch of rotten tomatoes and chip. Do you feel like are opening up for the meteor podcasts in billings? Is that all you needed to kind of breakthrough? Yes, that was way harder. I think than this will be because people will be in the crowd actually talking in like there to listen to music. Your billing show is like here. stir goin stage, everyone will be quiet, you'll, be commuted really confused and there'll be a light on you just shine in right on you and then you gotta sing, a song know The wrong way it's like did he forget a verse? out of a valuable obtuse boxing propriety man But I ain't exciting. Thank you. I mean you gotta mean you're novi waiters. I mean you like on a fast track. Dude, I'm not in over my waiters cause. I can add you see the play like I'm sit now my couch
with a little more enthusiasm, but you know just play music advice. I regard as a writer. Try to imagine yourself telling try to imagine the best version of yourselves telling your friend in a bar, something back his explanation. You ever gave to your friend in a bar about something: hmm yeah, that's gonna. Try to like write like that. Yep. I can do it. How did tbd finder you re He follows me on instagram and corinne. therein contact he's been on the pod cast before and she gave my number any text me and at danielle was sitting right there, and I was like this is a weird text, and I just I just too ate it Both of them yeah, I read it out loud and, as I read in a daniele, was like in the background like jumping up and down she's like you have to do it even though it's like
days after we have our first born son your wife's into it, yeah she's, I can tell her she's, like you, you know people already get opportunities like that in the spot that Iraq, so you gotta, do it didn't you dont give birth, late, you're gonna be completely sleep, deprived and hallucinating onstage man groupies, maybe be them all his curse bore, but I want to talk about that. S fishing with brandy. Oh, we have on the phone now chester told me last night that brandon tar, by where your aunt what's goin on that day, Polluted always best colony, politic, Brandon on equal noakes, should the show before last night, was christened crowned
Anger of year moroccan out here, you're right the true story. Lacrosse regards it, as you explained it perfectly. I remember Last time I was in studio. We were kind of app the explain. The whole tournament bass fishing thing to you and then you just you brought Guster straightened nailed it with the end loader, w n b a comparison on the viewer you're dead nuts on that one. So so tell me like what what is this the culmination of and what does it mean for your career, where this was My second a why when so, it puts me in a very small group of as that of one multiple. I was the twelve, guy to win multiple,
oh, I am, I think, the twenty seventh guide to ever win one here and like the fifty plus years ago, so there are looking at what they do. This there looking at the culmination of a core of a collection of tournaments right, like lay exactly one one particular terms. This means that, like over the entire tour are because put it that you were above and beyond, had the best angler performance out. all the anger is engaged in all the different tournaments. Yet exactly seven points the Gaza we have a hundred anglers that qualify for the basque masterly series, those same hundred gas fish throughout the entire year first place gets a hunter point. Second gets. Ninety nine third gets ninety eight and so forth. Down the board, and so there's a keyboard
points raised. It carries on through the nine events of the year we just finished well today, the top ten is actually still fishing today. I just didn't make the top ten, but I had I placed I enough yesterday that nobody could pass me in points today how many points yacht. Honestly, I don't even know I haven't looked at points, Years, until the end of the year, but I haven't even looked at the points this year to know how many points I have, and is there a cash prize hundred grand suite, Brandon you That's not a man I had and following you all year and you know you're doing really. Well, you went lake why he and, struggles a little bit there, a bond you get.
If you're putting a way to nice gestures, you need to go more chester molester on this one yeah, that's good yeah! I I about at my whole entire season. So workers through, like real quick like what was happening going into. Why, then, why he and then I was in your mind, going into lacrosse sloan look back now in for. Everyone telling me led to the point played out staff because and looked all season. I didn't know what the points gap was. I knew that a couple guys behind me that were in the running, but I was leading to a why Knowing what I know now, I was running away with it at that time. I guess I would have just cut a check It would have been nearly impossible for someone to beat me this week.
I caught a about or not, and I completely bombed and finish like sixty six that awhile and before that, my worse, finish season, had been twenty sixth and So it went from and almost nearly impossible to getting a thing. Why too many so that multiple guys had a shot to win it. You're alive just came from poor decision making, he rightly riding vaccines are delayed in preconceived notions and things like that. You catch it alone. I honour why ah yeah crushed the warlike on transfers launch wall. I one law is worth more than ten large mounted you're talkin about eaten, I'm sure
better and it incredible while I fishery and its actual relegates mama fishery tat. It had a really weird time poor decisions, and then I came into the cross this please do not knowing the boys, but knowing that it was a lie. Closer at the way everyone was acting as the luckless in what is needed today, and there it was able to pull it out, pattern incredible day. Yesterday got the biggest, I got I caught a week. They will seal the deal, move open How many important? How in our towns was yesterday's bag? That's why we're humbly efficiency, five fish, the five side at fifteen gowns for five years, they were found. This river renounced printing, solid life. I would a caught fifteen every day out. we ve been leading the events, do not bass, vision with you, so bad man, let's go
see we take the bastard, I'm ready, amazingly tax, a hundred grand pretty aggressively on gas and very easy to use, and they always some children never paid a student loans. here yet here is the best part. Wisconsin is a state that they have to pull the tax, is out of your check before you even get a billion dollars and then so now, I'm on. getting? Ninety the war grandkids wisconsin's gonna. Take six in that I gotta go. Do other paper work to try to get some of the back nah? yeah. It's great. Sometimes you wish you'd just go fish and have to deal with all that money. Trust me, I know that's like a wallet vision, so so you're, not even fish now but you're still hanging around that is like a polite thing to do is hang around we started do not like two years ago
taken around watching each guy when the event god, because it happened to me- is like respecting together anglers yell somewhat, but is also having forced me like personally it is. See a guy win knowing that, like I equal opportunity to go, do that and didn't pull it off. I didn't make the right decisions that week insides digits, motivates me even more for the next the week and we gotta go and are you done for the summer now, guy it's worth. Switching our still face some in the fall in everything. It must skills and jack. There is full on hunting season now and then, when you get when you gotta start back up hard core efficient again. we'll start tournaments again, ex february, will start show, seizing and all that stuff travelling in january but February we we don't have scheduled for next year, but you usually it starts from february
Can you can you take a listener? Question force pressure guy wrote in wondered about well when he spoke of fish. He saw about how long like view like spook dear how long ago, before a kind of goes back to normal right how far is highly variable right recent research, innovation. I really fight any comes off. Not as not yet strong stuck his, but, like you had a mind, you know what one of their fish one is. A fish like back to normal, ready to hit again. It's all situational ended, different depending on species, so like a small amount, bass, persons, a large mouth, we'll be way all aggressive. Like see your observe looking in losing a small mouth and catching it again quickly as much rather than doing it with a large mouth.
They got a bad attitude. You ve probably hooks mama, broke off in, like and she caught the small mouth with you with your lower still in the mouth go, on percent per se special spawning. Spawning like winning seem occasionally cast broke off a despot in those terms over eads. It you get both your looks back. Really levelling breakin him off. Yet that's like enclosure we were stuck in his mouth. He gets back out sons over eat the next one gets it lay I caught a cottage I have one time on lake Anita and when I caught him, brought him in the bow. He read gerda tasted o a baby, He had just stole off my mind, ass before I like to suck the worm off the hook, and now the plastic worm known real one. He split up another plastic one,
like a little boys. Black go a shared and cried at all at the same time, and was still swimming around, even my bates and there. But there have been times when, like you, don't look gum I'll follow on some comfort quarter mile they get it on the sand, flatter something you this following you kickass, madame de gas and those from the boat. Little spoke from your gas and then you hid it just right or they get annoyed and nothing else from over by the job. it's a harder, are hard question to answer, because it's like so like what everything is so highly variable, right, yeah for sure well. Congratulations man. Thank you, appreciated now get come back on the show I loved you, We're gonna make this not too far of a drive, so we'll make sure it will make her chase you down and get you back up here before you stay still a fisher mas pond office off his mama's yeah,
gimme. A break down laws like we talk about that little noble do their legs are going anywhere let this last summer, what turned out to not be good summer for handful reasons, but but we'll get we'll it back. Brad for that Congratulations! Extra jobs on I appreciate you guys are practising take I'd like AL cunning. Had banks Oh god, guy wrote an interesting point: we're talkin bout leaden, opera. What, when you go to the because I'm going debate about ill luck. at the ammo, copper ammo, always if her pros and cons of each. We're done like I did. We did a tour of the federal plant federal ammunition plant all the lead, federal uses recycled car batteries. It's all recycle would ok,
and someone wrote in and he's like. The problem with you- people, like you, is you say, like oh copper, copper, copper, but then every time they go to put in a copper mine, you bitch about it for its I've been a long. You know I've been I've spent well, My first answer: I pebble mine event before my twelve year old was born, so I've been following in in in in voicing all the reasons they shouldn't do: a gold and copper mine at the headwaters of bristol bay for thirteen years, fourteen years precise. So how can you reconcile that was saying you like to shew, copper am or that people should shoe copper, ammo, I felt a helluva oversimplified. What I said on the subject, however Fellow rode into say, that most of copper in your copper animals recycled, anyways style, dozens of tons of copper. This him talking found
Of tons of corporate are recycled off job sites every year. What most people don't know as it can only be refined wants to use as a conductor? I did not notice. Copper can be used once as a conductor, once its melted down again, it's conductive price for are diminished not be used again as wire most likely the cop but if you're using, which does need to be conductive, copper, copper and munitions, it would make more sense that their buying it cheaper as well Michael material than going out, dig it out of a hole in the ground bringing about that bill outbreak. Because your fancy, as an engineer you buying I did not know that about conduction of copper after its roots, reuse recycled, but makes no sense. More you're more abroad had man, you not a bullet man. Yeah I met a steel morning, copper pressure.
Without those interesting, oh here's one disappeared. One. This dude for michigan rights in his girlfriend taken her hunter safety and there actually advising you there. visor, you and hunters safety quote transporting game be sure to keep it covered to avoid offending others. That's like a hundred safety. That's it that's a sticky one isn't that illegal some places to hide it. Well, you have to have suppose I don't know, but I'm gonna say no. I think. I was a kid in wisconsin that you had to have you dear Or you could see I like it, I think so we'll had I'm tired of their cars, and visible in there. They will. I know that you had you couldn't high, I think, once you got it registry had to drive telling register at year end
Think that was the rule that you had to have it like displayed or visible and truly registered that It I was If I knew the laws exactly back then, but that's the only song and maybe people were just showing off their box. I dunno what it was like a big thing in the old days like whenever he was driving around and like old cars. They have like strung up on their bedroom. where it gets like it or is it how to what degree, if you get a deer ledges, just purely personal decision making it illustrators no legal gap is no legal structure, bind If you get a deer, should you have the attitude that you ve done something bad? it should hide it less someone be offended, or is the EU has done something that you're happy about glad about. And don't mind displaying see supervising both sides, but I've arguable sides.
Yeah in wisconsin, it's like a huge thing. If you shoot a nice dear, it's rare you find that dude hiding that. I'll get down and east upset like, all of Dear registration stations and few bars and look at my back, you know I don't like I've atop a my truck, and I would never like do not for the net for fear of offending people does more of like you know, I know This is where I would put it. I guess so like a decision for me, well, this boy you're going to shoot such a big boy he's not going to fit in that bed of yours. You're, going to have to attach him to the canoe racks are good. I got aloft a topper, though it ain't gonna fit ain't gonna fit. Here's another one disguise one or now that the topic is am either ass. This is this is this is the sticky one
so another guy michigan information right now- what problems in michigan he's your michigan and he's been doing some scout and just right now. He's been cruising. The road surrounding the At were, he has permission to hunt so he's got permission, hunt certain properties in his area, screws around the evening. glassing out in crop yields. One such properties about three hundred acres of mixed egg in small would the way, props layout out this year. The neighbors property has soybeans that the bachelor groups of bucks have been hitting hard to this week I part my truck on private property. I have permission on in
I've been glassing the deer in a neighbor soybeans each night. I'm still according here. Each night, the neighbour confronted me and asked me about what I was doing. The first night was more cordial and he just enquired about who I was and what I was up to the second evening. He was straight up. Confrontational. Threaten me with calling the d and are in playing about hunter harassment. he's got turnin harassment on the bow hunter. It's like he's good is it is look at harassment he's so now I think that his angle is that this dude is some trying to disrupt his coming hung a cab you right our genuine arresting. He says my long distant glassing is gonna pressure. The dear wainwright, his hunting this fall. He also
went into and he theirs value judgments says you went into an egotistical rant, ran about how he and his bodies only shoot. One hundred thirty inch box. and how the guys you want, my property should be doing the same so and he points out. I'm set up on a private property where a farm lane intersects a dirt road, I'm sitting on the tailgate of my truck and I'm glassing across a roadway into a bean field where the deer are five hundred to one thousand yards away. No house, as no other dwellings or structures are visible from my spot, due to topography and vegetation. Therefore, it should be misconstrued them. Stalking, you're, looking at people's houses. the dirt road is relatively busy. Many people drive it with car side by side and dirt bike, so is not adding to the activity
If you are absolutely one hundred dead nuts positive sure that you're not sort of like kind of like glance and over the guy's house, with both binoculars. I just see the issues. I don't think there is one man. I think this is just like classic sort of white tail hunter paranoia. What it would really seems to me this head zanuck lays down that. It really seems to me that this guy's main problem is that it doesn't have like a hedgerow or something right, of the road lot at times like white deal hunters with these highly manage properties, the lake africa? the grass is called but liners up, yeah like more, I think, mark canyon did it with a back. Forty is He planned that you try or he tried to plant like a screen, the kind of inertia they were blocked view from the road specifically for this purpose, I would also say that if this guy came out here, add the conversation with his dude in those dear we're still stand in the middle of the field. probably not an issue,
you know it is. Like this, dude is just weirdly protective about his dear, but I dont know if these dear hung a hangs dear issues. What it yeah sounds like that, the guy who is upset also could have handled that confrontation. a little better if he was actually that worried, rather than just straight up calling the dnr on it, which is kind of ridiculous. In my opinion, like it's just I dunno, You can imagine if a cop did come in there, both guys laid out their argument. The carpet profile it together. All of the field is insane yeah right, he's a comment: What are you what you have said about your mad, the heat it's on his property looking over and into your proper looking at the year. This is gonna be very hard to enforce. Looking at all the motors coming down his road that they don't look that Look over there away and
snare Brian, is being so thoughtful to even nino self reflect right in and ask what what some of you might think, so sounds me, ryan, that day you're, not an ass boy, you ever they give me something to keep my into the smile like you can't. Take marriage, for instance, There are things that you are anniversary today over you gravely Firstly, body take marriage, for instance, I mean, there's something that drives your spouse nuts and you like. I still see like what. Why do you care right, but then does stop doing it because, right, you start doing it. I do not see what the issue is me to stop doing, because it annoys noisome, so it could be that in the spirit of just trying to keep things cordial and not keep things heated to heat. dip into the woods and hen,
since against a tree in looks over into the soybean field or whatever right, like? like maybe the guys you rational, but do you want to have but the relationship you wanna have with everybody. They he's irrational, perhaps you're not going to fix it, but do you want to like poke the bear all the time and Brien's is Obviously you know these ex come once they start in frisky keen rotten around. thousand yards away he's just get. I feel for workers dear and the area. You know that they could easily be on his property, come right time, so kendra in overtime, we're about outside a friend of mine on a recent episodes. She's a framework, an acquaintance of mind that got hit by a rattlesnake
They took him to his local hospital and they didn't have the antivenom. So he had to get the helicopter and go to a hospital that had the antivenom and they charge of nine thousand bucks for the helicopter. Ride will listen to this kendra is bound, so he he's on a bird hunton, some bird hunting form and The guy, a guy in a bird on form, had this to say my mother. Eighty five was bit by a copper head in june. She received the hospital bill in today's mail and anti venom cost one hundred and nineteen thousand dollars in nine. One hundred nineteen thousand nine hundred and ninety seven dollars? Oh my guy, she was beaten in the hand, and she told me I suck the venom out and spit it out. Then drove herself to the hospital, and back himself up their heed. The risk
it is in here, like kendra, sent me the receipt. It's like Yadda yadda yadda room and board at the hospital twelve hundred fifty dollars the lamb Cop six, thirteen. Some kind of diagnostic sumner, another three hundred fifty six box, her emergency room visit through thousand one hundred eighty box, the farm the bill for the anti venom one hundred nineteen thousand nine hundred. Ninety seven doubts didn't you prince cover it. He says, yeah. Good insurance are open out there. The stafford hospital has a two point: seven, the star rating on Google ravines ever I don't think I'm your brother. I hear her like, like I guess now, and then you leave a hospital like love in the boys. other stafford hospital non smoking find is actually in england and the wikipedia paid is called the stafford hospital scandal. Neo
that is not high market, nor does it have yesterday, but this is the here in the good ol. They they got. Copper heads in england, so am I it's been bit by rattlesnake three times now dog and it cost twenty seven hundred dollars to get anna venom at the vet, so she should want to the very well. Does the copper had then it might be totally down. That's an unlocking. The. You think I'd be snake tame by now what use for months old. I didn't think you make that time, but she did. She went on to be a great hunting. twice last summer, but the second time shouldn't chin react to it. So I thought maybe she's kind of immune to add at this point. This is happening not any colorado. Nebraska. Colorado border area. not a guy wrote in morocco. We cover that guy, too, fell in the vote on our ass.
Spend all those hours people's party is. Is it what is it presumably is devastating. In his phone fell into an hour ball at a fishing access. I Montana and your insist in european debt tremendous guest on the back as our joint action, but I want to get him on the shoulder interview him Like I just ask them, what are you thinking when you start down our house of all guy who wrote me, can I tell you what he wasn't vacant where's twas take a piss around here.
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finding the successor to your favorite hunting companion today with match breed. This is a word here from vortex objects and I'm gonna talk about Do it all kids for fall hunting like what's my personal line up for me, kramer anytime. I leave home to go hunting big game. I'm going to like very generally. They always have a with me. Her ten, I fifty vortex razor you hd finals I'm going to have my sixty five. millimeter vortex razor spotting scope. Am I going to range my that's like one? Always grab eyes and me my bag rise metropolis. If someone like
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montello, wisconsin kind of central part of the state, but or north madison global on. I did my father The grandfather bow hunters so I grew up all honey and rifle honey. You can you can do both there, you don't the just choose one of the other, like you do in minnesota or some other states. How would I fifty three? Set the scene for me, what was gonna like you and you are twelve or whatever but where was archie equipment started with a recurring? Gown You know you were here in whispers of the compound bold I saw compound say it took me two years to save up the money to buy one whose start killin dear spice, with a recurve. That's mine, my diagram, while used fiberglass, asked. This was a ban pearson. It was going to work out if the veiled, all my first bowser vampires them, both On five July shasta you mean to say limbs nor on cereals.
aluminum mirrors acknowledged, like big thing: they have fiberglass arrowes, wasn't it I had so kind of composite arrows, but mainly shout aluminum, Well, she wasn't there for a time people I know like car, barrels and ship it wasn't like. In the early days, people were messing with fiberglass Remember people get. Those fiberglass did The poem it gets so gwinner fiberglass shitting her hands all the time that it looks like you can still buy them from three rivers now, so he weighs aluminum anyway, aluminum there were, or were you guys, brought heads back then their heads, grazer backfires, are all itself and then some while missus spry soon after that, a lot of lotta three bleachers point type heads. but not like, so you not like, like those old delta like the steel ones and stuff with, I think, I had some of those from my for my dad grandfather, canada, the bare razor heads things,
that's probably as what I started with, but when I started Think I was twelve when I started, I think was fourteen about my first compound and then started. Shooting probably thunder has it that point out something like that? were you when you were doing there as a kid? Were you on, you like on mechanically minded at the time reduce use of people, told you to use a region where did where you early on thinking like man, is to be a lot better if it was blank. Actually, I was tissues people told me to use for quite a few years, even even Became a mechanical engineer, I wasn't really applying it to brought heads and our true that much I understood fundamentals, but I Is it really serious about applying It's a bow hunting yeah until actually till I had I brought it fail. an oak shoulder blade many years later, that I really decided here applied apply. My background is science. Mechanical engineering to develop a product is gonna pay
our matter here? What was what were you interested in a mechanical engineering? They why'd, you become an engineer you. I was young physics, mathematics were just gonna, come natural to me, and I was I was in said mechanical. Designing Conical design and applying applying science to solve problems. Make better products. I enjoyed our tree in with com because there was a lot of mechanical engineering going on there, I just wasn't if you like, I was applying it to arrow flight brought heads and things like that. The degree I I am now, certainly hello, you been. I it now about sixteen years now, really. engineering brought heads, go. And if I turn Orianas four minutes explain to me
my enemy? What is like, like are based on your understanding as a guy likes, readable stuff like this. What is the arrow? What is the air? the current lake, air, broad head controversy,. I don't know, there's really answer now, though, no cause there's so many school. new on similar rules of thought in the last couple years, Spend trending more efficacy. lord of centre like way others. Then there is the idea that heavier arrows, sir sort of gaining a little bit of momentum ice. I say that but I also wonder if it's not just because of our little circle, like I wonder if you go to actual, I don't go to eighty eight, but if I wonder if you went to eighty eight, you go to eighty a year yet. Is it talk is
a thing they're like is, is asked. Is there like a general surge in this? Definitely the massacres of speed controversy, ok, added it continues. I think it's better. It now has its ever been really mass her sweet, but it wasn't around in, like then probably like, Oh five, when the first super fast carbon, you know, shafts came along and everybody shootin like eighty five grain heads and every showed up in camp, sat where I come from my perspective, is that I saw a guiding eloquence in the year. Two thousand and eight for whatever reason, it was like the very tail end of still an aluminum shafts like movies, like what everybody rolled into camp with airbus, its past, shot right through Elk. We had like very good success with the notion it's taken too. You know animals bound, in five years later goes
globally rigs where likely shoot the target at forty yards, and you didn't even see the arrow it would just be like I can the target all of a sudden. You know seriously that one of those chairs where the guys are throwing the knives and the notice comes out of the board and then we started seeing very poor penetration. It took us a long time and probably well a driver. I left, you know guiding elkins to realize. You know that that was the root cause of it, that the whole system guy. to light because they liked like people Why? Because it was fun, is shit to shoot it. yeah, and I think it was like flair. It was fun to shoot at targets flat, shooting, fast, ass, arrows and- and I think, at the time yeah, the the it was it sold. Probably was the number one thing there was like new, they came up with this the capability to make air as go really fast, like the hot new thing, but
it hadn't been like tested and probably worked. Fine on you know, white tells the stuff, but it is hadn't been proven yet and it took five or ten years so I guess my question is: do you feel like back then was there's a controversy or people talk. like. Was there always like a hold back crowded like no? No, no, no, you guys are I'm telling you that light fast start is not going to work. You should be sticking with. Have your arrows, I dont! I think there was so much in I. I moved car over ninety nine from a scots started: l cunning, two thousand for is one okay, so we can about the same time. Yes, two thousand before I got a shot on a on a nice ball. Hell are you doing for the five years before he got a shot, trying to figure out l cunning yeah come on. You, don't have a similar story or a wing of the arrows that cows right off the bat I was losing more than more than one or two as well, but yeah we can get into that. I was successful. Whitetail hunter and everything I knew about white tails was was
Spare me the wrong direction for elk, and I didn't have a lot of you know mentorship. I just went out and try to figure it out, but of I got the shot on it on an Elk. I had little for. hit the shoulder blade plate, really pretty thin part of scholar, with three blade, cheap chisel point head and did not get penetration there and- and I was I had a light fast set up at the time, you know probably a little over four hundred grains and. With a bow I had it wasn't, there's not a lot of energy there and that's really. What set me off on ok at it five days looking for that over the mountains and then find it, but I got at the time to think he'd have even puffed up pretty good bye. He advised me I'd have, I think it probably pulled out live, but yeah really bother me that I had become a very high level engineer. Developing products using all latest in greatest tools to do world class you engineering, solomon
technical problems prop product development really do is gonna go to guide the company's outward florida solid. These problems and I wasn't I get to something that was super important me, which is both hunting success and right there. And it was committed. I'm gonna, I'm in a hurry search. This see what's been done, play engineering, I know so. they can get through the shoulder blade and get through that Elk. I didn't need. There needs to be some engineering here. No at the time Everything was moving lightened fast. I was too, and I didn't really here about anybody saying anything different yeah. It was really after I had that failure. I started digging into the research I found ashby reports back then and read them in a went heavy the next year, six hundred plus green arrow and a big long broadhead head. But then I realized that hey this isn't fly. Very good, the trajectory this it was dies it about forty yards
at the same time, I realized that hunting out west for alpine meal dear mouse sing up a lot of alpine meal there at fifty fifty five yards, because it was outside my range at that time. So I also felt like metaphor: extend my range. I could be a much more effective hunter. Make more you'll make something out of it opportunities here. So I would add that may be just dig into the science behind it in and look it masters beat in bright, at design and all that real maybe what a chisel head is as I'll make sure people who are totally checked around the terminology, know what you're saying yeah so that the point other of an arrowhead. You can have a common point on which we can measure That is a chisel point would be if you had like three flats making the point that canada chisel point this versions of that that might be dished out and those are cultural car points. But it's basically arm. the front of the thorough makes up,
It's not really. A blade is not really that can a shave with it, but it comes to Point and then those typically have some replacement blades that are in behind it? The electoral mussy thunder head lot of network so those three flat services, the counterpoint order. You said you'll see on some brands or its dished out a little bit to care how to give it more. Were sharp edges the chisel point right, those cut better than a common point, for instance, but take less worse still to push through higher muscle things, but they're not considered a kite on contact the really not in really the biggest revelation, I hadn T. a broader development is how important sharpness Add retention are in being able to cut. You know you could you can take a lot of brought heads, promote an arrow and would say get down animal and just good try pushing say to hide and muscle, and you can't you can't do it. Those choose appoints a lot of times, not very sure,
and take a lot of forced to push them through the high. Even Three blade kind. One piece brought heads off Those aren't that sharp and I realise that either a lotta brought heads are really that sharp out of the box I got a lotta people, don't realize that radical well, no, I didn't I thought or to broaden the scope blades on and of course, is going to be sharp but sure it comes with a warning that says that you're going to cut the hell out of your fingers, but no it can be sharper, found down yet the things I was doing is measuring the forced pussy different bra as down through it muscle or hide muscle, scalp pillar using in machine which, as I can droller velocity and very accurately, as a load. Silicon accurately measure the forced to penetrate There's is a one to one there if it's true, if you cut the force and have to penetrate union twice as far through more back back that up against
yeah I wish back all the way back up to the machine using you wanted was to tell about our our meta internal testing to see what else I'll save him. It's probably not too that's one of the first thing I thought yeah. So back it up to the machine again so this machine it has several motors driving down ahead and there's a load cell in it. So it's accurately measuring force gum and I can mount. I come out. Different brought heads in there and I'll have of you, not the tray, underneath it with I've done it with. You know how high quarter with high on it, for instance, to look at the forced to push down through, hide and and muscle key to stagger roared kildare on earn. You can Basically, I was some I've used are dead before, which is it. This kind of similar sized, maybe a thicker bone. My views, moose moose, hide moose loose parts.
as well by a break I'd be careful because at some point, if you d like mess up this meat, you much you can get a coffin. The game fish, if one way so I was the recipe right after eight times these arrows through a thousand pritzker, what's keeping jobs the cold and then make it into burger. When you're done, yeah guess burgers answered by a weakened. But so, just on clear, it's not, like somehow- and maybe I'm just not entertain- force clear enough- when its pushing through you can equate that too. How fast arrow could have been going when it hit. It's not just like a pressure pushing at the time. It's that can be achieved, it's you how fast at air was moving when it hit I'm a measuring of the force it takes to go through and. Is this a good time to get into the gazprom?
good eye. I can see, though I can see that whatever you're talking about with whenever you're going to go down the road later and factor in speed and all that shit, that. A reasonable thing to look at would be What does it actually take to shove it through there. Yeah like this- is like a great first question to ask why thinkers whatever he was missing and they they're still missing it today, alot there's this ass versus speed, but that's only as part of the equator. Is there another one or if we, if we think about it, energy and arm let me draw this but forces key here force if you can reduce the force you and The distance is gonna want one. I think your buddies missing, that Nobody really looking you're saying when you say that your time are reducing the force to penetrate you're, increasing the distance that you will get after the penetration during. penetrating during realisation right that the initial penetration, I guess
As was that, like this, I had the sharp as needle on the planet K and I look at a perfect the cash dark and I have a real dull, dart yeah. Flickr day the same which you can What would you rather be hit you with others because it's gonna go in really easy. Now, about cutting a roast. If you ve got a really sharp knife, minimal forced at down through that right. Take a butter knife, it's going to take a tremendous amount of force, but don't think a lot of people about the for whatever energy you have it's going to create some force over distance, and reducing that forced to penetrate will give you the max distance with whatever your setup is light or heavy air or whatever your boughs, and I think I think that's stella and it's a huge factor, getting them to everything around brought it
its aerosols, both set ups you're. Looking at a number of things, you brought a bunch times like there's physics right We have addressed at where we had on that. We had on a guest some some months ago, an episode called the archers paradox where we had a ophthalmologist who spent many many years now. Mayors, ashby toy twenty seven years studying arrow broad head, like bow arrow broad, had performance kind yes, sir like rules- and they seem to be right- I would look at me like all. This is a very scientific approach. Legacy anna door? All is not well here's. My body said he's like trying to for applying numbers to it, ok. How is due How is the room for multiple interpretations if that's the case yeah, there's a there's a lot there. So you know doctorate, ashby, I I know I've talked him several times. He.
As a few things there and really the reason. I'm here is, swain some. Some of his point that don't quite agree with with physics and laws of science is now you'd. I became acquaintances, it is You sent me a follow up note about some things that one ought to consider it from an engineering standpoint, yeah and as I used to come onto the show and explained this yet I've talked to DR being really, we agree up we agree on a lot of things, but there's a few things that he says that you, no one and really his his studies were the first thing I found in two thousand for after I had that brought had phelan s shoulder blaine. I was really trying to dig into the research, so you have no respect for the guy in a time he put in their lot This is studies were with the longbow, keep buffalo or asian buffalo and And he's he's an eye after, but he's not a engineers scientists in the way. Is it really
there's a way you design experiments, design of experiments is structured in such a way that you make sure the result should get out of them are are valid and. So, as you said, I follow probably scientific research to, but, as I dig more and more into it, there's a lot of it. By this, and then I try this other thing in there. and way await structured. There's not is difficult. When a number things change it wants is difficult to quantify put numbers. So I think there's some issues would like that and there's some. Also some issues with some things. It just go against the laws of physics. That's that's tough. It is. You know, as well as an engineer, basically Mechanical engineering is. you. Don't I've learned the science, the physics of material science in an hour ply the laws of physics. To solve problems design, but our products. So if
if somebody saying something this going against the laws of physics, there's something wrong there. There's then, he didn't quite understand with a testing. they explain how, like some of the formulas that go under what happens when you shoot your about something? Yes, so. Subject: conservation of energy for so your bow has some draw force curve so. As you drop actors is a force at each distance back and then, as you, let go of it. That string applies that force to the arrow, and you have a certain amount of energy in. That's that's that, for times, distance or the area under that draw force curve and ask any constant for the boat, so amid admit that questionable that yeah get the thing were less a year. Bow you pull back in your ear, bow max's, eighty pounds or guy.
Why does it matter how long you apply that force to the arrow, meaning if it for twelve inches or does it for five yards so it does it for twelve inches or does it for a hundred forty four inches or whatever. and appointed what does it matter anymore? moving it at that speed. What is to be higher speed if it supplied longer, is an infinite. Yeah You know that's newton second law motion is farcical, mass times acceleration. So this you're playing for sheer increasing that acceleration and it's gonna keep going faster, but he's thing: like what gave us a moving my phone across a move, my phone across the table, importunate exe,
its army, using my arm to push my phone now by pushed by phone for an inch that a certain speed Right, but how do we never does it'll slide away my finger on? I stop. If I put my for that The need for twelve inches and stop is night, the phone skin. Whose across the table a lot further. nobody did more work, you didn't put more energy eyewear yeah, but the funding didn't harness that energy. what a great when you like, all of it, the forced stops and drag, brings it to stop There's is then yeah yeah Do I don't know why you are so why it's like now working to put this way. Let's say: you're drive down road guy, drawing on her own your car I'm thirty miles an hour if you if you drive car for thirty miles an hour for a mile in india Your foot off
the accelerator you're gonna coast, whatever distance. If you drive your car for one hundred miles at thirty miles an hour and take your foot off, the accelerator is now he's going to coast farther. Is it because the same? Doesn't your car doesn't give a shit how long it was pushed at some speed. Yes of difference. There's that wants is up. What's maintaining a velocity If there's no acceleration the ears of force, balance there. So farcical must have accelerated such as the acceleration, so there I would be saying is more: like you kept your accelerate a floor for longer are you going faster? You know at the end oh yeah, I got so maybe not worth it. That's a good point. So maybe when you're asking, if it's infinite, maybe it's all it is it's not infinite because it can only at once
a cheese maximum acceleration. That's when it ends ray so that both were drawing back at some point there's a max there's an- and to how much it can accelerate the area. So, in any case, your bow. Having thirty inch draw the set at twenty you getting that force, plied longer and you're gonna get a higher speed out an era when it comes off the boat, but it's like a constant acceleration. It's not like it's going is a constant acceleration. It's not like it's like maxim out lake at this point in your relieve us as a boy what it has become redundant. right, but I think in like the context, drawing a bow. We just continues to accelerate for that like length of time if it gets. Why, like a lot of the target, archers shoot, those huge acts lacks a bolt boughs and having like you draw length is like such a mechanical advantage like you can increase it by three inches and get like an extra like twenty feet per second equators presuppose that explains it
the conservation of energy, its force time distance is gonna, be go to one half mv squared. So your boat doing this work on the era, which is that forced times distant and that's vehicle. It's gonna be converted to kinetic energy. There are some slight losses in in sound and heat, but Only that's what's happening. I won't be dead horse by. I will move on understanding that I dont understand it, but here's thing they infinite, I mean, What what what what are you guys useless if you have a eighty pound? Like you, you point eighty combo wrestle. What what number would you use as an engineer to like describe what that pressure? Is? what that's worth as a force or gets a fortnight. and you got an airline there now, if some guy- had a fifty its drawling earth.
Sixty drawling at some point it seems to me that the arrow is this could be going to speed. It's gonna go when it leaves the string and it doesn't matter if you live, it's sixty and draw or thirty is draw at some point. The era was gonna harness. Whatever it's going to harness from. There speed? No! No. So I'm here's hears here's the arrears equation, forced times distance, because one f, amby, squared! Ok, so if that since increases they'll come off with a higher velocity. Now, but I can never go faster than the string. can the air all. I should ask you if you measured, if you took a thing that they use the measure like I've, someone's fastball, then he measured the move into the string. or you know, you're right, I what europe is like, if you
took the bow. I know you're because your blow your limbs, but let's say you could shoot your bow with no arrow on it right. That string primers a hell of a lot faster than with an airline right, it does I'm move on now. Now with you now with you in that because that air was slowing that string down. It is, and that's actually why you get a little more momentum The aero cars being pushed a little slow. I said I myself into that. Want blood amara amongst out now. Ok yeah good. So does there's a guy, you thought or stay at the very least thursday. My question I wasn't thinking about that its carrying the lower their errand. It's it's like yeah! It's going third out slower
and then yes in greece, as a arrogance.
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Finding the successor to your favorite hunting companion today with match breed. This is a word here from vortex objects and I'm gonna talk about do it all kids for fall. Hunting like what's my personal line up for me cream which anytime leave home to go, hunting became game I'm bring in like. Speaking very generally, they always have with me her ten by fifty vortex razor you age, diviners, I going have my sixty five millimeter vortex razor spotting scope. Am I vortex range finer, that's like one. Always grab s eyes and me my bag rise metropolis. If someone like
forced me to narrow it down to one option. I wouldn't have to think about too long. I would narrow it down to my biles. I use them all the time I feel kind of naked. Without them, I carry those things visually. I like those particular vinyls for a ton of reasons, including they just feel great in your hand, they're very durable, crystal clear and estate nice and clear way out to the edges clear from side to side. It is a perfect vinyl. If you want check out, the full line of border checks and see what your dream optics would be go to vortex, it's dot com or better right, had over your local vortex dealer ring put your hands on stuff. Make sure you have what you need and what you like in order you'll be ready for anything that fall through your way. You have your best fall ever. You know whatever your draft, if you can draw along, if you're draw forces longer or you have a higher force, those are both going to increase the energy going. The arrow
your kind of one to one and then you have? No one half empty square. Is the kinetic energy, the arrow in At the target that, netteke energy is gonna, be converted back to work on the arrow. So now that energy is gonna apply this force I'm distance to penetrate through the target yelp and. And the support of the controversy out there if its. If the target is safe, foam and has a constant forced to put through us, not velocity, dependent, it's so were given bow it's kind of a constant energy machine or caustic kinetic energy machine that whatever air await you shoot out of. There is getting the same force times: distance applied to it so have very similar, kinetic energy of the arrow, no matter if it for me, Me I just tested a foreigner, fifty grand Earl and a father, fifty grand earl,
and the kinetic energy cannot measure the velocity kinetic energy and they were within about two percent of each other and that's what I've seen over a lot of people's data is, can I get her, she is pretty cast it within a few percent from a given bow a little more mass will make it a little more more efficient, a little less energy losses with sounder or friction, but so forced to penetrate the target is relatively cost at lake fall? Did you say energy loss through sound? Yes,. Also in your sound that here will be, but energy loss silent about, like that scare Like wind, dreg, like You know you shouldn't irish nets. Energy loss. Yeah, but it's not the drag itself, The actual sound that it's me, king is the energy loss. Yet vibration, which we pick up a sound there's energy lost there, there's energy losses due to friction when just whatever
Services are there against each other and and that time through advanced there? That's a friction to end as low, but a heat happens when others friction is a small, not heat, and that's how you lose energy, thereby, but is a small fee, basically what's happening. Is that forced times distance? Would you be? an ad energy the impact. Whatever energy, have it'll equal, some four, times distance through the target and A big revelation to me was that if I can, we do that force that takes to penetrate more distance, one the one you can cut that force and half you can go twice the distance private biggest revelation, I found was just the important of of sharpness and edge retention and how much you can reduce that force despite having a very sharp heart, edges that our durable enough but retain that sharpness and and slice through the alps.
What part of the controversy? you more lately. Is that The people there are honest speed and energy they'll shoot two arrows in a target out of a bow it into a phone. margaret and show that it is too early. At the same distance into foam a short because they have the same kinetic energy within a couple of per cent. In that energy is gonna, play some forced times distance, and if the forces not velocity dependent. You know fairly. Constant though both Same distance, a kind of any argument or the delightful people saying. hey, it doesn't matter how heavier arrow is going, the same distance through form or bliss jail. The problem. Is this really target depend it, and when you, I have an animal. There is, I believe, a lousy dependents. There there's been some studies that show that note muscle. tissue and organs are visco elastic, so That means there
the forces sheer dependent, so the faster your cutting on the higher the force goes up. So In that case, mass mass is a benefit and you can where do the calculus equations on this boat, just give me an example. For me, If I shoot my. One of the great arrow pursued my fee. one. Fifty grand earl I estimate, if there's a velocity dependence on force linear, I estimate I'll get about ten percent more Penetration to say muscle, having higher mass that's gone from four fifty five. Fifty, so I believe I believe both sides have it a little bit wrong. I think the the I speed geyser saying it only met kinetic energy. Is all that matters. I believe there is a mass factor to it and I believe, allowed people that have Heavier arrows have had that experience on
laws that yeah I'm getting a more penetration here with this higher mass and debts, swear. They haven't a bit wrong, but I think also on their site like that aspirin la those follower say it's all mass in a God, out of the masses, a huge factor out against that big of a factor. I feel like you for me that for fifty two five degrees estimate that'll, be about a ten percent increase in penetration in true, say muscle tissue like that. would you gain another? Ten percent gone another hundred grains, the six fifty I think so I think I find it Six. Fifty probably another. Ten percent, and is so it's so target depend adele really, and what are you? What are you going through? we've gone through bones, then that I think that momentum Like I said to the term, I find it
by ten percent. More momentum, out of out of the heavier era, was well and for bone penetration. and it's really that the force times time so This is new and second law motion is force. He goes mass times, acceleration. in an acceleration of change of velocity over time. So if you d move time over their society get force times. Time equals ass time change in velocity or Angelo. Madame because force times, tat Are you married to the other side now because we're slowing down, as is going through the Well, is it because I want isolate momentum and explain how momentum helps. You ok momentum at impact. To apply some force impulse this force times. Time and I ve got a lot of product shocked us. In the past will will design albert product in a warm
docketed, higher and higher levels to see when it breaks. And what I ve learned from that is. Theirs is dead. much boundary curve theory, but it's you need to apply, a force for an amount of time. You can have an infinitely high force if it's too short duration, it doesn't break anything right. I can apply a thousand. How's your nose for a millisecond in and it wouldn't hurt at all. But if I applied it for a second, you know it would. It would break your nose. So a lot of things act like that. They need a given force for a given amount of time to break. some momentum equals forced times time having that ten percent higher momentum. My Just get over that threshold to break, and it's nothing with with them. Doktor Ashby, he said. There's a six hundred. Fifty grain threshold
blast it doesn't matter. Itches, mass and a lot of people have just run with that and disappeared. There's a couple things it wrong with that for one you need, you need velocity cause. It's really that mass times velocity the gives us pulse force, force times time and could be I'll break something something in one of the things we're taught by here is something being like through a bone like through a shoulder blade right Well, there has to be some minimum velocity right because it just won't work at zero, velocity right and I've said that over the phone to him like if I throw that arrow at a cape buffalo, it's not going through that bone. So it's not just mass And he understands that bright. I think he. Yo his his world is, as a longbow shooting fifteen to twenty yards at cape buffalo. it s really what he was after ain't you. They hide in that, like three quarter inch thick flat rate
and that's what all his work work as around and Can we so target dependent? You know what what what momentum or what force impulse does it take to break the bone depends on what the bone is right and that that should be obvious to people. Then a scout, beulah is thinner than maybe law. on the shoulder born to leg, bone and so that's one side of it. It depends what the bone is. Your thing is, it depends on what you trying to drive through the bone. if you're trying to drive in aluminum farrell chisel point ed and I'm very thin, blades that it's going to lose that force. You know that forced to crush that is less than the forced to pop that bone, and that's what happens a lot there, so that you mean the force that before possible to break the blades. Yes, no breakable, it or bend over the feral, or things like that. So
No doctor ashby, I think, is number one thing was shocks: integrity of the broad headache, opponents, sir act, Yes, I think that what I mean we agree there and. and that's a lot of what was wrong with the problem. They had been using there's no way they're gonna make it through bone, they crash when they go through bone and and that's a lot of the initial work I did, as I spent about five years to answer. Different steals differ he processes ended up, hang on a two tools deal which he used to cut metal and stamping dies because it can be very hard sharp and has the toughness yellow cut metals or to cut your bone and um, and not get crush, because if things get crushed or banned or break into such up all the energy, we don't totally agree. There is something durable enough to get through the bone, but then I don't think
Six hundred fifty grain is is a great number. It didn't work for me been an out west bow hunter. It was too heavy. I was getting a big nose dive to my arrows on that arrow dies off. You are. It like. If you're shooting a real heavy air when it dies off, then your top of the, Nosedive right right, drop and velocity Firstly, a going slower is good, but does that? Does that changed angle matter. the other is a change your angle and our data, whenever it doesn't stayed nessus like it, starts to lose its horizontal right or does it am I wrong? No you're right. I'm shot animals long distance in the entrance and extra holes looked like a shadow of a tree stand. Gaza there's allow drum, and you also need to know your yardage very accurately. Then too,
I was gonna to of that tree. I was going to ask when, when you see or at what distance you see the nosedive starting, I mean, I know that that's dependent on many factors, but yet you know at that. I'm with a bow, I was using and impose it become a lot more efficient. But at that I'm trying to shoot six degree narrow out of my seventy palm in and energy had. I was really seeing a dive awful out at fifty art that this the very by bona it won't. That's one of the things that bike. I should I issued a rover site and I got one pain like set it. Forty, that's like adjustable. One pin said it six. It suggests offices to pin system And the reason I got that was specifically because, like I felt comfortable pin gasping out too about you know forty yards, Yes, I think between thirty and like forty, but pay that I notice there was such a significant drop that even as a measuring in particular the heavier I'm shooting like, unlike the heavier spectrum I set up like five hundred and fifteen grains,
but even that past forty yards and me like, The differential is huge if you think something's it forty four when you think it's walking broadside, but it's actually kind of like walking away for you in a very slight angle, and is it forty seven you're like pointing impact, there's gonna be like foreign is different, sometimes read it. do I like to. If I see it said elk under fifty yards. I just wanna drawn shoot it. You have too many times when I decide Did they go in range and it was some other animal saw me and they took off running and kick myself Why didn't I just draw and shoot? I knew it was forty or forty, four and so yeah if it's under fifty I liked eyeball range. It take the shot You don't know, what's going to happen if you wait longer as part of the desire to have a flatter trajectory, war and then also like eliminates I think, about legged accurate arrow or like an arrow. They will kill something in particular, I think
bout that shot is like a percentage if. It's like, I would rather know that I can put the arrow when I, where I mean to inside a fifty yards, then have the insurance that comes from being like well, I can blow that thing scalp, you escape you if I like, make a bad shot, and so it's like what's the trade off there's like I get the insurance. If it's like right or left, I guess, but I I put myself at a disadvantage because if my range is even a little bit off like it's gonna be you know, and lay item, accent less totally the trade off, and to tell people that ask for in a hurry by increased my penetration, and I tell him bill shooters. should the heaviest mass you can for the tragic that you want or within the trajectory that you want, because increasing mass will give you the increases in penetration they're not they're, not, huge, but you like
says: maybe ten percent on hunter grain rapidly or or give a ten percent better chance of breaking that bone, say so there is a improvement to mass, but a strapping off your trajectory So that's the trade off really I think really only I think ashby like he cairo say saying. The same thing was like six. Fifty was the best that word for him. but I think he says it. You should shoe the heaviest ere. You can work within the except the trajectory of ethics, the ball to you personally right, yeah, he's been He's been saying that up I've seen that more lately and changes to know it over. I think I mean I've been saying that to him for a couple of years, but I don't I don't. I don't want to influence that. I want to bring up to your point. This is what maro I'd like to take credit for this, but mark boardman brought up this because we were having this conversation mark warman from vortex our buddy over there.
He saying you I'd like a flash. You narrow cause like the last two or three white boxy shy and like plus forty, maybe even right at fifty yards notice, priest far shot small target in order on a white tail and but we were kind talking about what a heavier arrow can do like if you haven't amiss he says to meet as you know, but I didn't think about all the shots love passed up. There were clear It because I didn't have the proper orientation to the animal. You know whether he was quartering to what he has done and all he could just been born boss in the whole time and tackling that's one of the biggest factors I think, for you know, shooting what brought head and shooting little heavier arrow is dear size, animal. It is ends up all these other shot angles right now, at last bless couple meal derive shot were actually quartering on coming in decoys and
well bit of a downward shot. I knew at the I know the bone structure. Well, I know it's gonna be thin. Scalp Yola put right through and I'm gonna complete pass through into the ground, but I was totally confident that I can make that shot with his broad had this arrow, you think it does open opens up shot opportunities. You know I started shoot near brought heads because phelps does then felt says. a strong opinions about it. He taught me and shoot em the nan eyes yugoslavia tricky but he taught me and him and jani kind of time. You know like a shot that would never taken. In the old days the funnel shot full frontal shall like low brisket. Me. I felt bullshit bowls together like that last year, through brought as Neither one anywhere. nels kind like I'm not saying you know it works, but it was quite like that. Do a thing.
You thought you weren't supposed to do, but some convincing you that you had the right necessary thing to do it, but still feels funny. yeah. I didn't they like those where you're like to get your point where you had dear that, according to you. and you're so confident about What's going to happen, the use go like punch it in their nor you gonna bust you all those bones. You know you have for years. I didn't. For years I passed up frontal shots, amr slight corner to end, it was through at and at the same time I've shot through hundreds of light bulbs, with our brought heads and completely pass through even like most femur completely pass through in the broader looks good. So I knew that it could get through the bones yeah, I had it still had that my head, it tunisia is a no go shot or files and no go but yeah end, You know people are going to argue whether not its ethical, but I think I've got the knowledge
Despite that, I know it's going through a hundred percent, confident it's gone through that bone and it's gonna stick into the ground and outside you know, Comes out of this, in talking ass. We talked about this where. If you hit it like, if, if you hit a deer elk whatever and you come in behind the shoulder blade and you angle and punch a hole in its heart as dead as That is a guy we're not talking about that like all the set out there, other their body has. If you don't hear, if you go pass between two ribs upon punch, a it's harsher right, The conversation is, why have when it doesn't do that. Read any brought head issued behind the shoulder. I have as maybe a ribbon the hearts there I brought his gonna kill it it's what are the other trade offs docked in turn into it. In his shoulder- and let me add before I forget, I advocate that you know it's out. There should be shooting during the short
right right now either has its can to depend on you set up your head. You know you have to know, what's your capable of, and I don't wanna I would encourage you know shots. It would be I if you don't, have the right side up fort mechanical. You know you're not going through the shoulder, probably, but it's a funny conversational to say ethical because you be like that's not ethical needs a. Why is that not ethical. Is it measured by its measured by an obsolete? It's like now ethical as measured by obsolete technology. It I believe it that's where it came from, is not ethical because it doesn't work, you'd be like well, it does work. I believe we are therefore makes it after I believe its ethical. If there's a high percentage chance is gonna, be a very quick, quick kill I believe it is- and if
the mechanical, I don't think it is to go shoots of the shoulder blade. There's a I mean they might get through, but a good chance. They wouldn't so you know he might argue, that's not an ethical shot, but it's I I guess that's why I use the word ethical, as I feel like as high percentage of a very quick kill. Very quick death yelp have taken the animal. but it's interesting to guess, like risk of over stained. The point would be, when you say whether or not certain shot with a bow was ethical. Sir lake is, ethical with what I'm shooting right not is it ethical Right with what I'm shooting my personal capabilities, my effective range. All those things come to it, I think, is it. What are the eyes tat animal you gonna take that animal quickly verses maybe warned the animal I would be the decision there now.
one of things, as we said, and in notices exiled had your brought heads is. He said that the shape of the point. On your broadheads heads like the big. No, no, really didn't notice, no. No. I think he said he likes. The party said that anything with the shoulder time to tip at the same thing that he uses that I'd like to know he likes it. Tonto too, for food authority only like the long, gradual pointy. Why the three two one and that's the he likes hired a ones. You didn't say that its naughty to have a step, shoulder hunter browser. You positive controversy that's pretty positive older on on the blade where I thought. That's a nod: not now he he likes it. Does that the tonto tipp, that's it
that adds a lot of spherical message? My message you're messing it up, but he doesn't. He does push the three to one, which is the biggest one of the biggest points of contention. I really have with them, can explain three to one alright, so spin applied wrong. It's The mechanism is wrong there. It's he saying three to he saying abroad head that has said a three to one aspect: ratio like three inches long, one inch why'd. They draw draw that for me you're talking about you're, talking about the shape of the broad it yeah, I say he does drool abroad at re classic little broader, yes, so that the length of three inches and the wit as one inch poker at its base, the odd that yet a width cutting with you'd. Have would be one inch but the length out, sitting at the front of the arrows three inch. So that makes three two one. That's three one ok and it takes you to ring. I wish it all that it takes three inches to express full one inch of with yes
I got if I want to make a one inch caught in your admin. Lynch wide caught in your admin? I would need to insert this blade three inches into rightist is making a wedge dislike the wage, an inch, has got a push forward three inch and he likes three to one year and which I was a shallow ass angle, it is its nine degrees. And I would say I could imagine taken to an extreme. you might wind up with some pretty flimsy up towards the two. Exactly so, there's two negatives to it One is unity on him like an engineer, but you are so as to it tat is a problem. I had really there's two dozen Just one is it's got a weak point, Because a stress is proportional to length cube so a three two one is gonna, have a lot higher stress and be more likely to break the off africa. The other issues is not gonna fly very well because
yeah more surface area. Well, it's gonna less stable, less forgiving and flight, and when he says that this has a three two one mechanical advantage and that's that's where the problem is mechanical advantage is It's a term use on a simple machine to give the ratio force import the force, aos output, so like on a lever, how, like you put a force, you get three three input. One party get three pounds out, got off the ship and allow so he's applying that broad head like it's a wedge like its wedging, something up an inch k like like a box. It would slide on a wedge. You have you pushed enough upon a force, you get about a three pound Proceed with one party get about three pounds for pushing madame what brought it doesnt wage and animal apart since a big busy, big meth here that
it's really cutting it. It slicing yearly wedging it apart the thickness of the blades there or the faro yeah, or there then the fairer than in any an arrow. But it's totally applied wrong treatment. Kaliko advantage is, should not be applied to abroad. You call a three to one aspect ratio, but dominated by the forced to cut its not It's not waging the whole I'm right yell, so is there some other scientific? Term or oars mechanism that what he does, what he is saying is correct right. If your blade is steeper. It should take less first to push through the meat, than if it was wider yes and what I ve found myself. As that is not good point, So a three two one. Three two one has about it, because eight degrees per side- and I feel it the access of air of the area once about eight degree
a one and a half to one is about sixteen degrees. Those are with very shallow angles. We talk about cutting something yeah and what I found as their very little difference and forced to penetrate if you have a very sharp edge, so If you think about taking a knife and you're gonna cut a roast and you're gonna, just cut it eight degree angle and how what force when they take for some sixteen degree angle. What force without take with a really sharp knife they're, both pretty shallow cuts right, the elk just slicing. Now, if you get up like forty five degrees are more worse more of a chop, then I think that's where it. They certainly tat all the way out to forty five degrees. Or or seen like. When does it make a difference when us? like all yeah this things, not penetrating ya, think up over up over forty, maybe does, but what I've seen enough in that range and even at a one to one, that's a twenty six degree angle, its pre shallow. Ah, I have found an end of it.
With a force to penetrate know with the strong shingle not through hide and muscle, and I don't get any difference in force with with that. the changes in angle of about one to one, five to one and I've talked to doktor ashby about this, and the last I talked him. He actually said am I data doesn't really. Does it really show their three two one is tested two point sixty one and had the same results as three to one who said that more of a howard hill thing that was carried forward so as morn like folklore, the eba three two one for four abroad had shape so ass, a myth us On the other hand, it is not true to yours drive me crazy, more crazy. Don't I couldn't understand about the bow and the length of the amount of time your string applies pressure under her that constant acceleration. I swear there was something about the he didn't like
Shoulder he and like chisel tips, he liked he wanted to cut on contact, which is what that occur, so that that's what makes him so what he liked is the tanto tip, so the straight three to one where it's got the same angle, going all the way out. He likes truncating that, with a little bit tonto tip, just means a set of having that say, eight degree per side all the way out go to maybe a twenty degree, reaper side right at right at the end, and if you don't you break them, typically easily right that our structural integrity right yeah, so that basically the reason for it. I found that too. I was testing lotta. Three two one broad heads initially through bono's breakin appoints off all the time, and weren't flying well, and so I started my own design getting getting shorter and shorter overtime, adding that Tonto tipp to increase that strength. When he had have you so that's what you're after when you do that tonto tipp blade is your after getting rid of that somewhat flimsy narrow point right right
got on one of doktor, trees, broad heads. He does have slight tonto tipp on it. It's like, he does very soon. He was wrong. The other one is the birds. The veterinary days advise you like. I was So what and how It's like What are you don't actually tested on bone rights? I think that there is a thing like that in a guy like you take some, in my mind would be. You can look, can be I accept all the laws of physics- ok, but are you highlight? But what, if you like? All if you like, missing something like you're, not thinking of something right. So I just want to see
shoot it into a bunch of bones and see what happens here? you do you feel that you can get to a thing where you know you've accounted for everything and not need to go. Do that cause I of this kind of the main thing he brings to it? Is he at umpteen thousand. Arrows rose into all kinds of dead ship right, Jim say like You know. If you went to a lot of you, the bulk of americans, I think they got like. Ok, I get all the you know all the thing: in an calculate in figure and right but how can you argue with just shooting, narrows into debt stuff and see what it does because one of the tinker, if the figure in thinking didn't account for some like unknown weirdness like what hair you know that what What is the role of hair right? What is the role of it of hide? What is the role of hit
in hide and then the bone yeah good point you can have, we could have the mechanisms wrong right. I can try to apply science, but I could be implying it wrong if I, if the mechanisms a little bit different, It is kind of that wedge versus cutting thing going on and in Europe in theory and I've done this theory. I can calculate that with my bow micro set up. My broad head in a measure the four to penetrate hide muscle, scalp Yola, I can your theoretically, I calculi did I get double shoulder blade pass through on an knock on paper, why you gotta be some party. Your brain is like now, try it out, and I how I've gotten single shoulder blade. Passers on on I enchantment through both, but I shot a big boy. Through both shoulder blades and spine and got it you're both shorter blaze and the spine. So
behind the lot I get on average. maybe fifteen animals a year, a hunt, a lotta Elk Elk, dear caribou pigs, other think so I mean I'm a bull hunting, us really. Why am I doing This is, I want to be a more effective ball hunter but also a lot about, and so I was getting our challenge from the butcher, saving of bones and. And that's really one of my early goals was just to penetrate through bone, make sure I got to the vitals and inhabit stop there. So that made me iterate, on which steel type, which farrell type go going to like titanium hardened, steals the fairest and banned and work on an arrow connection set up so that the arrowed and break is well so yeah I've tested on by shooting a lot of bones in really cause. That's a good deal. billy test in that and that impact
It's hard to model is hardly just calculate is very complex. and, if you think about it and what I didn't really, I really hadn't put a lot of thought into it prior to two thousand and four: is that a broad had blade, has a really difficult job anywhere else out there? Do you have something It would be very, very sharp to cut but you also going to fling it at three interview per second and did not know what she hit it might hear. let's go hide my hip bone, you dont know what anglers gonna hit at. So it's a pretty it's a pretty difficult, You know that brought had has to stay intact, stay sharp cut and this tremendous impact you bring up an interesting point? There could be imagined, like taken your flame, ethically and fish You have this instrument designed for there might be great forgotten through fried fish muscle
right, but then all of a sudden, you realize you put a scale in front of it and it doesn't like that and you go to remove the fishes collar duffy doesn't like that. And then you manage long established through the fishes school, and it really doesn't like that, but wouldn't declare you know. I mean what does your sword with your broad had resources, none at all. But you gotta get away to do any of that right. When I issue at this fish when I take it to this spanish ripe yeah. That's why a lot of a broad heads that brought his kind of evolved to be manufactured, low cost so cheap raw materials that are parts A lot aluminum or softer steel, fairer and for twenty blade steel, it's kind of a low and steal, but it can be manufactured, very low cost and so on the product strove more towards lower cost manufacture, and I think that's what consumers want it. They wanted. Things are
lower cost and they work. If you hit behind the shoulder they were fine. but they don't do very good on his the.
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finding the successor to your favorite hunting companion today with match breed. This is a word here from vortex objects, and I'm gonna talk about Do it all kids for fall hunting? What's my personal line up for me aids, our leave home to go hunting became a number bring in, like speaking? Very generally, they always have with me per day. By fifty vortex razor you hd finals, I have my sixty five, millimeter vortex razor spotting scope. Am I vortex range fine, that's like what always grant that's eyes in me. My bag rise metropolis. If someone like,
forced me to narrow it down to one option. I wouldn't have to think about too long. I would narrow it down to my biles. I use them all the time I feel kind of naked. Without them, I carry those things visually. I like those particular vinyls for a ton of reasons, including they just feel great. In your hand, they're very durable, crystal clear in estate, nice and clear way out to the edges clear from side to side. It is a perfect vinyl. If you want to check out, the full line of more tax to see what your dream optics would be, go to vortex, tricks, dot, com or better right had already local vortex dealer ring put your hands on your stuff. Make sure you have what you need and what you like in order, that you'll be ready for anything that fall through your way. You have your best fall ever. What is the cost differentials alter.
you're, just in dollars was achieved. Broad head was an expensive brought. It yeah three four for thirty or forty dollars? Is Canada gone refer most down in a big star, brought heads, I would say in, and I m so old, ten bucks, two bucks, a piece yeah, that's That's probably most typical, I mean you'll find some that are six for twenty five dollars. Really really low and stuff by sir on three four forties, pretty common three four, forty five. Fifty some now I will brought, has her where it like on nineteen for three back, so it's about real yell three times as much so while had no idea were like where's that you know of trust in its goals and where, whereas that money going Ultimately what you don't like, what? What are the materials differences? Do I mean so what is expensive about? What is what makes them expensive?
the heads of the neighbours of the material as some materials are manufacturing processes. Ok, so yet at the store, for instance. It is a tool, steel sixty two thousand stick so It covers most blades, their thinner. They can. You can run those on a real real. You can have a coil of material on one side. It can go through a machine get stamped around everything right there and come out on the other side as a complete blade. That's a very low cost to make those verses, This place is made more like you were too high a knife where you're you taking your brain. Not the steel softened. We do a heat treatment with a triple temper. not cryogenic treatment, to kind of maximize performance of the steel the multi stage draining and honing to it extremely sharpen and holds the edge notes, sixty rockwell sea, which is what you'd have on a higher knife really, but yet with. till steal it it can take a high impact strength
We are talking about the difficult job of abroad. Had that's why a lot of Bull will try to apply knife steals to it, which the steel might work great and a knife, because it's not having a high speed impact. It doesn't have to have a lot of toughness hum, but still steals fairly brittle when it's that hard, and it has some high high impact do sell out abroad. Has the white veal guys you multi, sell abroad? Has the guy's their hutton elk and move the stuff it's it's becoming more and more definitely initially, we were selling to EL counters. That was our me the customer or guys come from the east out west high Elk and we're gonna with. others like an alec specialty brought had the others has made to panic, It's a bigger animal further, but- or more white tailed guys are using it to and when I am personally, is I needed a lot and white tales cause, there's so much more likely to move you know doc into
earn own and in his shoulder, so I think it some you know it offers upshot opportunities tree down to his spine or if you hit a shoulder in a white tail and its. It's maybe not the average wait till hunter, but it's the guy, that's going after the other. your barker really passionate about about india? So what does want any failures? It wants to remove any failures he can from his gear and set up. Hey you just killed analogue was one of with iron will brought it right here. Man who is it now Jani. What brought has issued in these days scalding tough ed evolution. Now or let's do those play this game. Let's say let's say bill hand, your box, the broadheads you'd say or not. I can use all casa.
Now I wouldn't, I think I mean for what for what I know they're very similar. I me I think, that some of the steel and some stuff it bill can speak too, that I can't buy as far as like shape and size, and what they're supposed to do? It's their pay. Similar. Yes, a high and brought her to it uses tool, steel. She not steal the reason, and it was you her That's her. I think, there's a couple use, but he isn t steal one difference. Would be I've had it been leaders I really like that cross cut and S got a more game dependent if I was just like trash beyond after cape buffalo or is it as another had asked me? No, no leaders yeah just like the to blame there, and if, if I was shooting and we make up what we car boss, areas which has no bleachers really for summit. It was scrapped. Her keep buffalo god like when I found for nor,
american big game having up there, us cut a bleed or set back as minimal on penetration, and then it opens up this cross cut. So you get a much better blood trail. Young for total cut more total. Inches sliced, so please out faster, quicker, kill, more blood on the ground. So I'm a big fan of leaders for the first two years, I didn't have any Occasionally we would just get a very poor blood trail like that. Single sliced can close up to easily so I cabinet cross cut it kind of forces there. been open hall to some degree of I've, told us for I think, on his back ass Bernard Shaw, magnus stinger into a cow Elk, maybe fifteen years ago, and it did great wealth efforts, cosette like ball or rib skype. An array of on the way out, complete, pass through dislike. You know you and hid it or anywhere else. long story short. Twenty four hours later after the bloodshed
Pretty much disappears, I'm just doing mercy loops and I find her. It looks she had gone a mile kind of in a circle, but she had fallen into this beaver pond, which was lucky for me cause she was like completely preserved as ice cold and itself. On going in getting an answer in a story, but I do know where we're like the gods are ice cold. You know it was great for the net crops, because you could really see everything that happened but exactly that it had gone through both lungs. had only had a caught on a single access in all the best I can figure. Is it that holdest it she was it belongs, were able to keep that whole together and not lose compression or lose was it towards the back of that was it towards like higher back like towards the back the lines the black lobes man boy had to go. Look at the pictures, but I'd just tell you is pretty much dead center. If I can remember, I mean you love, but yeah, but did you see ass? She went out, we bombed like
these twice the first day and we decided to sixteen o set up camp and sleeping go after it again the morning the blood has disappeared. When I hear cases that guy got a double long shot, but the animal when a lot further than it should, I think, one thing: I've seen a lot with like before twenty stainless steel especially in a mechanical whether only hardening it to look for Six forty iraq will see as it doesn't hold that edge very well to get through hide you really through hot the heron hide and install, and then you tissue apart, so you might pose a hole through an and I've done little testing of this with with a friend through like or In some things that You can take a liver say, and push a really short brought had through alike are, They are well brought head and you get a complete cross, cut its exactly the size of the brought it through their. Then you take her, maybe three blade on that, the blaze of dulled from the high and the hair and push it through there and you get up
you get a hole through it, but you won't get the blame to cut the tissue just kind of push push aside. So that's another thing It is kind of hard to measure for but we are doing is different penetration tests. They don't really factor that am, but having that sharpness at retention said these slicing titulary through you cutting a lot more tissue that you not pushing aside and you get quicker, kills for that and I think that bigger hole through the lungs make some claps quicker, because you can have and in I've got a brother. That's a pathologists and I've talked to the doctors about this to try another stanley. You know what it takes to kill, What is it I've seen if you hit em all back in the lungs. They can take longer by your hundred percent there just less stuff back there there's less bleeding. On and you you can remove alone in it. So because still live right, sir, They can still cannot breathe in the front loaves, and I think it is
enough of a whole enough air to get in there in a kind of collapse, the lungs and this. Why sometimes people see an animal go for me It's on a double longshot, also there is why, like the aim- vital v close to the top of the heart long area, because it knows- the speakers those bones around, but if you got the right brought had that you can get through the bone. That's the quick kill ya that hot toppled heart long area. It's like seconds then elms dead. You know they drop in and site. If you can hit closer there, you are But he coty callum from born, raise brought up a really good point. We are talking about this stuff at the first sight who nearly last weekend- and he was soon- he was a kid- his dad would make him sharp and his broad heads too, and they would like member one peep sites had that the tubing there would keep your view. site doubt. They were just stretch that not too tight, but he say imagine that an artery and see how much for, It takes your broad head to cut that lay. Does it do
touch it an immediate paths and cuts it, albeit slow that whole edge across it before it cuts rain is the same thing when that doll broad heads through that animal. If it's not sharp, though arteries can just be lily to move out of the way and and it's going through it, but it's not doing any damage pushing them out of the way I saw them in the force testing. I was doing that the sauce nine different brought had designs and in a really sharp cut on cod. back to blade burst like a three point to freely choose, appoint there'll, be about five times difference in force to go, true, and it's really what focused more on having yet to blake. I contacted, What I see under a cheaper steals is that, if I may, peter. The test pursue Haydn, hide muscle, again of forces gone way up, so they dulled quickly and were pushing more stuff. Aside Let's are listed as for second tell me some things that, like the use people. Doing that
just flat I'll say categorically that is stupid. yup they just knowing enough in there's no like there's no logical, reasonable bever to support what you think is true like, for instance, I believe AUS brows, raised to understand that pine squirrels cast raided fox frozen gray squirrels. They bitten off but I still think it's true. I no longer know why, because The academic community soundly like us are not a thing is not think this is not a thing, What people doing just has no backing? is this. The first thing that popped into my mind: it's this kind of a bit of pet peeve as everybody dont nurse dozens of people. Their broad had testing out there like china
We should have brought his machine ballistic, gel oda and, on its is pretty worthless. For I mean I shoot it too fun to shoot through it and look at it, but ballistics gel. It's it's so frightened so much friction on the chef, stopping it they'll testa from brought has in they'll have a variation of like an edge and they'll pick out a winner from that and I've seen you I've. Seen two from brought heads that I know have like three times different, threw up through an animal in the how the same penetration through bless his joe. It's called a look at Sk, as are doing it, but it's pretty worthless, Let's explored every minute, let's say I came to you and I was gonna: do a bo test? the broad had tests were discussed issue in the blocks of oak and declare better, would you say to yourself of that's the case? I'm gonna go design abroad had really good at through a block of oak exact,
like her, I know guided did concrete blocks. You know what is tat right. Now is a medium and told them, I can design abroad here. This gonna look do perfect, for that is gonna. Look like a scam. Like just feel point right here in our hearts and steal in in a blaze of he back, so they never even hit the concrete and, and you can shoot into into their new gonna, look at and say, while this funding it damages at all. This is the best broad head, but if big chunk of steel in the front, big ball of steel and can be the best penetrate through an animal, so is so forget dependent in all these brought had test out there, maybe not should say all, but a large number of em are shooting through targets that don't apply to animals. you know one of the regulatory moment for me and I still don't understand it is We were calling have Lena one time and they come in like burning goes by the common like hot right.
And in the heat of the moment, I accidentally grab a field point and shot one with it, and then thank you to think. If you to ask me out of thought or zip right through it right because like went up, is no big old thing is try to drag through it. Like you, just manage is gonna pencil it. There they didn't do shit to have regular origin, I can't remember now: I've never ran off. You could see the arrow flappin in its side, but Why do they not does go right like I would have thought it would just go right through because there's no resistance of trying to pass a big brought. It threw him yeah out if I actually thought there's a chance a could through now man by then you have a phone. It takes a lot of force to penetrate the.
hi. I dunno about a heavily to hide, but it did bounce off it just didn't, and maybe it was on bone, but out of bed like my thing was, it would have zipped through it and you wouldn't have made it'd be hard to find cause. It wasn't bleeding or something like that yeah. I actually would have maybe guessed that too. That like can feel point penetrate handling a problem. If it doesn't slice might so. Let me now much bleeding and not acknowledge kill, but he withdrew, they have none. I always nearby of us right next year, but we are on the same trip, but you know that common point really takes a lot of force to to penetrate. To penetrate high. So can you add that things you think people do they're stupid young I'd be up there, I actually customer say that he shot his last shouted his Elk last year was a field point, that's what he had left and how did it do? Well, the Elk died right then, but I told him probably died from the other three arrow she had in it. It was there was it was
was down, it was going to die anyway, but he said that when he shot his last, he did realizes that field. Point till after he went over. There sure is through the heart. So you know that that helps give me another one Things you see in the archery community just do not add up to, and if it really I foresee yoga extreme extreme efficacy, so because there's this whole thing like that. waited shaft is pushing. No, it's actually pulling yes other this really not much scientific basis for. The high or tremor f c will increase penetration know at least not at the basic levels. So Newton's second law of motion force equals mass times acceleration. As we said, you re range that you get forced times. Time equals times velocity I'm, so for momentum equals forced types
momentum is a is a vector quantity. So it's in a straight, it's in a straight line, has direction to it. So this probably the most basic way to calculate in a half or will this arrow penetrate through this animal is What is that momentum at impact scan applied as force over time. therefore sees is not in there so efficacy is like where's the centre amass located in that arrow and Doktor Ashby says the going from on nineteen percent to twenty three percent. F, o c crease penetration by thirty percent. The the physics wouldn't say that that's only changing the centre mass, an inch ford- arrows going in a straight line and that mass is all along that access in a straight line going into the animal I foresee, doesn't even enter into it. I think
at your with him shooting along bow a longbow, as is archer's paradoxes, this pretty extreme. You know your your strings going towards a centre. The riser there was mounted off after the size, getting better arrow flight, and you need, and you need a lot of point weight and fairly flexible, fairly low spine to get that thing a bend around there. the riser and end up going straight at the targets, you gotta excessive flux, that arrow back and forth, and on a longbow, especially fifteen, it twenty art shots. I think turning an arrow flight trumps ivory. I think that was his number two. He said perfect arrow flight church, which you never really it achieves, I don't think I longbow, but I think we recognise that error flight extremely important and apply. Will, and I've talked to other traditional, Guys that are also scientists and do our testing, and they can say era
turning arrow flight kind of trumps. Everything if arrow is not straightway, it impacts its bowed way over That's some angle is clearly going to kill you. attrition! That's because that momentum That mass times velocity in a straight line is what gives you that force times time, if not in a straight line, if its bode back and forth or off the side union, you can get very poor penetration and so that the though the heavy f, o c or the efficacy arrows. are more might be. More forgiving if you have poorly tuned or wobbly arrows, but it if its if you shoot straight these matters much times. I think they just correct themselves. A lot quicker. You know when she shoe with those heavier foresee arrows still get like what a flex in the shaft but. It's just that. Have you read already itself into line you by their bill? He eyed, I think there is
or faster. I think that, There's a higher frequency of that banning back and forth. I think the with more point weight of the watching get steered straighter quicker. So I think that extreme, high and extreme efficacy? It was all about arrow flight for him and I don't think so. I dont I think a lot of compound guys are applying it right now it doesn't that only apply just some high speed video testing look at my arrow coming off my bow a few weeks ago and my my arrow, barely flexes when my both tuned and by TAT I mean that Alec is pushing. The string is pushing the knock directly in line with the rest of arrows coming straight off the boat is not fish telling right left up or down, There's really minimal flexing like you can barely see, maybe a little bit of vertical flax, but that's it yeah a barely see any and that's why?
and I get really get flight of I'm optimally spine and I tested a little weak option, we spine and a little over spined, and I was I was he ain't gonna barely any flexing, sir, gone very straight, you know say a foot our couple feed off the bow. I think if we has a minimal effect, just mass time velocity in that straight line, that gives you the penetration in see a ton of people I have friends that our cause you a little bit like another one right now is Joe efficacy. Over here Joe fuck I don't think. Perhaps I don't I don't wanna get hurts I mean I don't think higher mass higher efficacy you're hurt a thing other than trajectory and if you shooting closer and at and I tell people this fear in closer range and you can get your boat, a tuna shoot will go for. It the issue I see with it, and I know a number of customary builders
how a customer come to them and say I gotta have twenty percent. I foresee, And they ll say well, I can get you there, but you're gonna be undermined, Billy with your elbow set up to get that high, I'm enough, but more point way. We take a narrow spine. You know because they re not make errors. Finds heavy enough to handle that right, yes, hard for me with a thirty inch straw, yet nineteen twenty three. Resentful, see. I gotta have a lot of mass up there and I want to be private under spine, and I see allow guys that choose the mass in the higher foresee over aeroflot that's a big mistake. I think- and that's that's. Why, like people to quit, doing if you can get it all the work out. If you can get high mass high, f or c and like perfect arrow flight, and I think the best test for this for people out there I mean Don't bow and an arrow, which means your areas coming straight off your bow. Is the important fur fix
brought his to fly well, annotation and notes. I like to do is, should a bare shall we can shoot you paper it. You know ten twelve feet or something. That's it. That's a decent task, but. So shoot at twenty to thirty yards with a bare shaft in a flood shaft, and I just take one of my arrows. Cut the veins off so there Eight answer very short: there's! No, really, no vain to it, maybe even rap a piece of metal, duct tape on it to get the weight. The same in the back and then they say five to ten grand. So it's going to act, the same issue. The two together it at twenty yards then, maybe thirty yards What you see is for us I'll take my bow to the test test veins and how well these stabilize. And when I see a zone, if you're out of tune if you're arrow say tail right coming out of the bow wow
your fledged arrow, my hit, the the bulls I cause. Even those gonna tell right the veins quickly corrected straightened out A bare shaft doesn't get corrected, so it stays little tail right. It'll hill laughed and you ll find little reveal the it'll show you that does arrow not coming out of the boat and in I was. I just did it till I was getting that. Bear shaft hit a foot long, in forty yards and then I was looking at different vein. Indifferent brought heads to see like which vary. stabilize brought has the best offer There are even those get membership they hit afoot over with the right way and, in our say, are our ass one. Twenty five broad head something its relatively compact with the right veins. I could get feel points are brought still hit within a couple of inches at forty yards, but the bigger wider brought heads. You have the more.
On stable, it is all the more you need, a correct it in and those might be, hitting five six inches. Five six inches off with small veins. But then, if you had a taller higher profile vein, I could pull us back into maybe a couple inches as I also that's another area that spending more time on and, I think is really important is magic. People and how to get fix played bright has to fly well forum. Could I think that's keeping some people shooting mechanicals, I get fixed as a shoe well for them and they they're they've, made it so easy and that's a big story that they used to sell those ray. Is that those smaller heads they're easy to they shoot fail to? You know right if you can't get if he can't get the relatively compact fix played head well for. You do something wrong with your arrow flight yeah, your bows at it yeah your bows out of tune in, even though that mechanical is, is going to hit closer to the field point
and that's kind of the trade off in other, more forgiving, they're gonna hit closer to feel points you boast allowed you both military and your hair, or am I just when we say both soon and might not just be that your bows not pushing your arrow straight? It could also be that you have the wrong arrow. You could and respond. Yeah yeah yeah real quick. Like this last question, we wrap it up this law regarding unsustainable levels, when I was like researching, bunches, f, o seized up and trying to figure out what I wanted to my arrow set up I kept running into that creation penetration like over and over yet been nobody really justified. Why? But then I saw one article. That was like well if you have a higher efficacy That means that you can shoot stiffer spine because it be able to lay kind of breakdown that spine as it goes down ranged is like that flax in it. But once impacts that sir first spine will have
all that energy like directly behind it like so we won't wake dissipate by wiggling a whole bunch once it comes in contact with the target that was easy only thing that I've ever seen that I was like. Ok, I think that like efficacy and penetration, makes a little bit ascends. But it seems like you, don't think that and I more inclined Deferred EU their arms wondered what ever see the thing about efficacy, and I kind of like that twelve to sixteen percent range is. It is improved stability because it, The centre mass is kind of a pivot point. When you Let's say your arrow comes off a little bit. say, tell low and you ve got this wind. Across the broad head. That's gonna, cradle of a lift, and you ve got this. wind across the veins that are gonna, play boring force in it points the centre mass says without forward you get more. You know yet stability. Is the veins have a longer lover arm, Inez Europe, better. I think
You take that to an extreme if you have low efficacy to where you have a bunch of mass on the back Then I could see an issue that when you impact something that mass at the back arrow can act more like like a spring or or if it's not perfectly centred that mask and pull it off to the side. So I think there can something a little bit to that, but I don't think you know changing that centre. Mass point by by a half answer and answers this? What really talk about as that big enough yeah. I was in words because, like you and you're able to increase the spine when it hates like you would I have everything just piling up sort of behind that, rather than like a a low or a high flakes sort of spine like a four hundred spine or something where it hits, and it's going to go like a doorstop kind before it goes in yeah, I think Yeah, it all comes down to that keeping the momentum in a straight line. So if you have, if you I was going straight at impact. You got that more mass up front
I was gonna, be better than more mass at the back. Could ask me: I've she has proved to be more likely to stay in a straight line versus having mass at the back. That might that might take it off course a little, but that's how I would look at kyoto. two more questions. I plan to have you with us. If you want me to go, there is one question to how do you think you'll do. Probably not well, I feel for you now. I also guarantee you'll variable. Nevertheless, not me, the guy that hosts spencer he'll, throw you like a mechanical engineering quite well, but he won't do anything like that. For me, third question is: how do people find you and how do people find it, so they can check out your advertise a whole hell of a lot you most like a word of mouth kind of thing: we were bent lower them off their. We don't do Svetlana mark not anymore. I brought it from so the time on an engineering butter iron, will outfitters
our website I well. First, com were on is facebook things like that to our youtube channel Are you ok, yeah we're trying to show? How did it get out here to find out a sharp? My broad has. He said he had a good video about it. Would you have very honour- and I'm gonna- try and do more this next year to come educate, you know the sizeable hunting and try and yet more knowledge. There was great shouting in doing trivia. You think I can't believe you're, not gonna. Let us talk about single babel, like Hell bent on spend amended on one minute as your question. No five minutes Oda thought feel that phillips ears, I'm not even going to look at phil right now. I wouldn't yeah we're! Ok, let's go! Let's do it. I don't have to you make both irish voters make single babble, an double bevil, broad heads yeah, maybe just a quick rundown pros and cons. Yes m:
which, which one you want to pick. I have got a I've, got a dog and both fight. So it's it's all. This is just my personal testing and what I found your initially like double bowel, better. I feel like its inherently a bit stronger, the combination of sharp. Mrs strength this is a bit higher there. Could you have equal pressure on both sides in driving through something what I saw with single babble, with all that pressure on one side, one babble, your mom, likely to want to ban that age or break out that edge- and In I have personal experience that corroborates that enough talk to people that July single battles, and that is a known thing novi, because your game, for passers, a lot of times. You don't know if it's happening in the animal if it's happening in the dirt, but you see a lot of times. It's interesting too, that it's only on one of the two blades, but you have very like extreme,
waving is corruption whenever you want at all chinking or chipping out edge her or disbanding right in, and I saw that nets. Why was more of a double bell will, guy for years now, it was really. You got a customer's customers asking pushing for it. They had a couple years ago. I started. I start. You I've only tested other single bubbles. You know against My broad had this got a better steel, better sharpness. I really should make one best I can attest it. and I still saw the issue it when I was out at twenty five degrees, and I took the doktor ashby- actually got his input on single babble designs and he liked election. Bubble at twenty five degrees, and I feel like some of us testing was confounded. He added shallower, total angle as well as a single bubble, so is a bit sharper too. One anyways. I found it twenty five degrees, single Bela, wasn't as strong, as are night too, degree per side or thirty, eight dearie total double battle, and I had to go up to thirty two degrees. Until I get to the point where
Damn it wasn't getting damage done, just heavy bone impact. The cool thing about it is the tree rotation. So if you add the impact that animal- let's say you you're right, fletcher, earls rotating rate hit that animal with the power sure that Belleville is going to push when a push that bevel over. So let's say your top one gets pushed right in your bottom. One gets pushed left and it's going to rotate or continue that rotation through the animal, so what does that make sense? Steve? I dunno, if that's good or bad, why a single bevel rotates through the medium yummy. Try if you get a single bevel knife tried to cut a piece of cheese straight and you're, seen as a positive or negative. Well, I and I felt it was a negative cause. It's gonna take more energy is now going to slice through. Yet the path is along the right right, What I, what I find is that the positives are is that what the whole looks like the entrance hall, especially with our.
I make a single bela with single bubbled leaders suitable years had that grandma testing of oberon on them too that rotation. I often get holes through the high. It look like a square, Ursus are double babble, it's more like in order to shape our cross shape, has just slicing straight in words that cutting while rotating. So I The advantages are that the whole can be a bit more open and may be a bit more trauma as its cutting through things. I feel like the momentum that rotational met some of the arrow already at impact, provide some of that may be additional energy. It takes to rotate and I shall my awkward sing about last year- had great great penetration what I'm saying is they both penetrate really well? They both perform really well. They both breach. Both split bone? Really? Well, that's something digression said- is that Single babble splits bone well maybe because we are at a different energy level, but I see it
they both are really pop opponents, but bonaparte really can equally well, sir, performer, taking the same amount force you saying yeah very similar anyway, I I think they both well, I think, was more important is having it hard. Very sharp edges could add retention, and we have the blow Tough enough to be hit by bona keep on they. for that fail. Thank you. Forgive me, those ash. A few minutes My pleasure, you definitely michael I will outfitters yes, good sagoth brought it check. Are you sure you're, the boar voice shouted the forehead with on your brought, as you might like the whole honor did you was that in self defence. No, you said it was coming back at yes or no. No, no! He was, after I shot a prig prior pickers raise in iraq is in it Call in the boar I've seen it before
yeah. He was real worked up. but he was here. I move on was turned off. So the agonies asking some off air questions, why does your sharp physical either mrs villiers around granada revolve around bill or continue record? our relations,
they are using a jig just to to and then on sandpaper years, and if our edges retain really well. So you could shoot if you shoot ten times in a target and you can't even measure it. So a lot of times target shoot. The. match. Breed is a mobile ab designed to help dog owners, fine potential breeding partners and to provide breeders of the platform to reach those looking for puppies, match breed allows users to view important information like title
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Transcript generated on 2022-09-20.