pack while ranks who are i before we dive into this episode the minimalist when i help you d clutter your glowing screen so had on over to the minimalist stock com slash wallpapers today load any of our free minimalist wallpapers including our love people use things wallpaper for your smartphone or computer enjoy hmm the thing that leaves every little thing that you need every little thing that's just feeding your greed or whatever that you'd be fine without it

hello everybody welcome to the minimalist podcast where we discuss what it means to live a meaningful life with less my name is joshua fields millburn ryan nicodemus is out on vacation today so i found another personnel ryan and well rhine holidays here is the author of the brand new books stillness is the key right thank you for being here today the ethics ramey today talk about stillness we're gonna talk about quietude we're going to talk about combating distractions and we're going to talk about slowing down with today's guest and our first question is from alex in north dakota hey guys ah my name is alice and i'm from mine at north dakota i am graduating from college in about six months and ultimately plan to continue my education in a more meaningful way once i'm done my goal i have to learn a new skill either physically or intellectually every six months or so and i i guess my main question for this would be what are some of the most vital or failing skills

either physically or mentally that someone living more purpose driven or intentional life should strive for serene skills as to build up girls new skills every six months and i think this is a meaningful pursue what what what advice you have relics yeah i do like this idea in there is you know that the more you expose yourself to stuff that you don't know how to do it sort of naturally humbling and unnaturally kind of keeps you hungry like it's very easy you talk about sort of like having an intentional life's are shaping the life but the and i and i try to do that too but the downside is you can end up like only doing stuff you really like or only if you're really good at all the time you know what i mean because you eliminated all the stuff you don't like doing which is great like you don't like scheduling okay get an assistant maybe that's not something you need to be good at but what you're doing is you're kind of like softening your life because like here you're never stop

going you're never challenged you know you never grad school versus kindergarten kindergarten everything is a brand new and lay everything is difficult even though you not really doing anything difficult but because its new it is difficult whereas grassroots these ingram till improvement i think there's there's something to be said for both yeah but well i think what you're telling alex ears and you'll put yourself in more sort of kindergarten like situations where it's new to you yeah yeah and i mean look this is easier to do like if you know what your main thing is like it's like writer and then i can go learn tone the irrelevant skills that are challenging and interesting about me better but they're not designed to help that there are like hobbes like one of my favorite books is put by winston churchill once called painting as a pastime you wouldn't think that basically the leader of the free world word this guy who is probably the most ambitious this man of his age had an almost inhuman work schedule

and yet what are you what he would you like to do in his spare time was paint right anyway wrote this book about about basically the power of hobbes and he was saying that like the most important thing that at like a public person or you know a powerful person needs to do as he says you need to have one or two or maybe even three like really good hobbies and sir winston churchill the hobbies were painting which he learns us of right after the first world war he basically bungled a bunch of stephanie sort of thrones of public life need he turns to painting and then later he turns to brick laying he learns had allay bricks only as a state in english countryside and when he's writing this book it's called the world crisis he spends most of that there's this awesome letter he writes and he's like you know i've been two thousand words and laying two hundred bricks a day an end so it's it was

idea of having something totally the opposite of his profession that was rigorous and hard but forced him very much outside of his comfort zone and forced it like you know his his daughter would help him lay the bricks and he wouldn't you would have to go a pretty place to paint a painting right and then even within painting in o churchill would would talk about how how he would try to get better at painting right so you go ok i learned how to paint is like now go to a museum really everything in and see if i can repay a painting that i saw the next day right or he'd say like i want to try to pay coming from memory so even with in painting he would set out to like add skills to his sort of however and i just think maybe maybe this isn't what the question is really about but the idea of lake erie

i find your main thing and then you can be like these are all these seemingly irrelevant side things but are actually sort of giving you rest and and and and giving you some sort of peace and quiet that help you better at that main thing we're going to be talking quite a bit about your your new book today this is sort of i guess as completes a trilogy for you in a way right so so the first two books egos the anime enemy and obstacle is the way and this is still this is the key i think one of the things you're talking about here whether its brick laying or painting it is reclaiming this sort of stillness yeah i didn't mean it is like the direct this question my book just something i think about like how do you like like in my routine on a daily basis it's like i am busy work the first half of the day and in the second half of the day i try to do like exercise right try to do something that's very much the opposite of my main thing because

it's a bat a balances it out but then it also gives me a way to sort like i guess don't don't just think about as like oh i'm acquiring skills think about it is like i'm acquiring balance or that taking like let's say have a frustrating day writing but its i've never really had a frustrating day swimming or like i've never had a frustrating run like or a frustrating day lifting waits like it's so much easier to win over here and so if you if the the hobby of this growth in their spending time on it just its much more the success in it is much more in your control and so is that i think important to have that like it'd be good if for the president not i'm not talking about any current present but like it's good for a president to have some physical activity that they like that they blow off steam doing or you know they have like quiet time themselves like we need have the inner life so don't just think like oh i'm figuring out this skill

like i'm added now i'm learning finance and i'm wondering that's like it doesnt they don't have to be professional skills they can be like a and how to knit in my totally impractical and of no real value but it's the process of doing it that is the beneficial thing but the knitting or the swimming can also become frustrating if you're doing it professional i with your profession or professional knitter than all of a sudden nine finally i need a right in my off time because because the burden of proof is not that high for those those hobbes if you're not trying to do a professor professionally yellow chris bosh the debates will play like one season he taught himself himself how code and another season he he himself the good in the off season so these are not these are not in any way beneficial skills on the basketball court but the point was like he's not going to is obviously training the off season but the point of the offseason is to rest and to get some distance from the game and to like let the body recuperate

but that doesn't mean you at the mind atrophy you know i mean so and so i think it's it's just keep it you're fired and things that are keeping a sharp but ironically in keeping a sharp you're you're also finding rest and i think what you ll find some the things you thought excited you were interested you they may not actually interest you want you dive into it yet we often confuse excitement for passion but you can excited about an idea i really wanna write this book but then when when the the work actually comes down to it it's like i maybe i'm not actually excited about it that's true and also the like you don't have to get good at it do you know what i mean like you can also just do it right you know like so i i've i i run and i iran in in middle school and high school and i hated it and then i sort of rediscovered it after college or in college and and so i run almost every day in the morning and so because people

i run a go owed you do marathons under this race and like i'm not trying to get really good at it like i'm just doing like i'm pretty actually good at it and i do push myself but like i dont need to turn this into a competition like i have a lot of competition my wife and i i have a lot of things that i'm trying to leg be world class at i dont need to be world class at my hobby right and i think that quite often that contained the hobby is worth urgently if you're just tryin to two if you try to get it into a job yet yeah well alex i will send you a copy of stillness is the key hope you guess value from that s question is from carry an anaheim california ryan my name is carry and i'm twenty and other such students whose cultivating passion for television writing that i plan on turn into our mission when i gradually business

i have an internship re absolutely love at a company that i really enjoyed working for however that can you all and treating from anaheim to beverly hills twice a week last week i say ten hours in the car on top of the full work days which are for credit only are not paid i usually listen to music on his part catherine tried but i keep finding myself really tired and frustrated by the long hours my car germany i found ways to make my key more pleasant or more manageable without having to quit an internship gonna get a lot of from surrender that comes to mind for me as peace yeah how how can she make her commute more peaceful and away yet and that is a real during theme throughout stillness of the key word you talkin about stillness it's sort of finding that inner peace in and by the way i think we are we have more discreet bits of

input than ever before are you right about how the stoics had this problem where it's like god put away your books and go live life right but but also now it's a now we yearn for the books because where were bombarded with social media were bombarded with the growing screens were bombarded with justice the information the the scale of information and she's looking for peace and it seems quixotic to me to try to find peace by lay why organisers commuter i guess listen more find more search more how does she find peace i need in our wait either way i mean let the irony is like she's twenty so when she's thirty let's say she achieves all the dreams that she wants she has this awesome career or maybe she's forty and she has a family she's going to look back and be like i can't

i used to get ten hours in the car by myself actually you know what i mean i was so wonderful reframing as you know so so so it's it's like don't don't necessarily see this as this like huge inconvenience but try to see it with try to flat it's like how we go if we look back in her own eyes we see these are difficult periods we went through but were grateful for them it would be wonderful if we could give ourselves all just oh i'm not saying you can magically turn unpleasant and a pleasant things but if we are going to appreciate them a little bit more in the future can we give ourselves like even ten percent of that now so you just going like i have this time am and i'm not going to feel angry about it i'm not going to try to rush through it i'm just going to be like this is it you know i think that's one way to start it although i do i got this advice robert green when i was about that age shows his researches and i had an internship for someone to have just like she had an

lots of long commuter was in los angeles and and he eat a sort of his advice he was like he's like you there's two times of time he said there's a lifetime and dead time dead time is like you're in the car and you're like i have an hour to kill right alive times like i have an hour how am i going to use this hour you know or it's like hey i have three months left on this internship and are really like it i want to do something else like my gonna quit am i gonna come wait am i going to phone it in or i'm going to be like how can i use these three months to some positive end and so i like that she's listening to a podcast or she's listening to music but you could also say like this is how many people would kill for an hour to meditate you know and like i'm going to find this time to just have one hour quiet myself like how can she use this time i i have a you have some days and so it's like that's when i make my phone calls yeah i like that's what i call my parents that's when i you know that's when i catch up with people i haven't talked to in a long time that's when i where i just think about stuff that i'm working on so it's

this our doesn't have to be wasted and you'll have to find a way to like rushed through it you can go like how can i use it to my advantage how can i like really be present for it and get a out of it and i think peace ensues from that yeah i agree i think it now that the reef framing i was in the corporate world in a previous life manage two hundred and fifty retail stores which i was really ironic with the whole minimalism thing but i think that led me to this and nicotine this i worked at the same telecom company and i had a lot of commuting because i lived in dayton i worked in cincinnati and so i was driving back and forth and i i probably spent i don't know ten fifteen hours a week in the car sometimes more than that at the time i am i i begrudge the fact that i had to have so much

but i also realise that it was actually my extreme introvert it was the only time i lived i had alone and it was good for me in retrospect the i go back to ohio it's like i have them pleasant memories of driving whereas before its it's because i sign some sort of negative connotation to it and i think it is quite often is easier as appreciating what is good from this commute yeah maybe it's us up to drive from anaheim to beverly hills every day but maybe it's also awesome the opportunity have that alone time there every single day yeah and and look like we know it can you make one hundred dollars you have to pay a certain amount of that in taxes right like we know there's tax associated with all good things right make money pay taxes one of the things that stoics talk about is just like paying the taxes of life willingly and gladly almost straight so instead of being like oh it's april fifteen that came live at the registry

check to the government we should be like no this is what i have to pay to get what i got right and every year i posted on social media and people get very mad crazy ridiculous but he's just like you have a life changing internship that you get out of that's like getting you closer to where you want to go there or drive his attacks you know like nothing is free like even though you're working for free nothing is free and so if you just go this is the tax rate like arguments are the tax of being married you know like foe calls are the tax of of of work you know or whatever right there's just taxes associated with all the stuff that we have to do and that you know most most taxes are progressive so the more stuff that you get or do the more taxes that come along with it yeah and i guess

those taxes are things that may not be pleasant in the moment but i like the idea of reframing even the you know it's april fifteenth i'm going to write this check i could find a way to make it more pleasant than it is even if it isn't truly pleasant to me or can you just get a new i like that why don't we just start by like i'm gonna get to neutral like i'm just not going to be resentful right of the fact that i have to pay taxes because taxes are part of life and that's what i'm doing you know not saying you pay more tax than you have to right now you're not like around up here you fair or whatever you get an account and you have you tried to minimize the taxes you don't need to pay but then when they're like look here's the bill right the czech isn t carry ominous in your copy of our book essential is a hundred and fifty eight he's in there about what it means to live and intentional life is twelve different areas and one of those areas is mindfulness and so as your on the road and you you're you're looking to be a bit more mindful with your time i think there are some tips and strategies in our book essential if you like our podcast you like the audio

what version of that it's over six hours long or view what book or the eba version or happiness in those to you as well as a whole week of meeting almost that's right audio or at least to listen to the mindfulness chapter the maybe turn it off after that we want to our lightning round now try and this is where we typically answer questions from social media we're at them saw on twitter facebook instagram you're at ryan holiday and all the relevant social media networks also rhino they dot net oblivious is your website is another ran holiday he's a good christian musician or some house my forehead the radar sam harris on here and i guess there's a musician who sam harris who as all the handles and it's like i can only imagine how frustrating that there must be i ever like you know my email

what is ryan with ryan dodd holiday gmail it's just like i got it when i was in high school and that's i think and i was like who's this guy that has like ryan holiday at gmail like how did he beat me to it took me like eight years to realize that i have that that the dod doesn't mean that that's true yeah for the dots every letter doesn't matter as yet like its weight years maybe bleep allison there are others that are ok good luck signoria by dollar what are we doing lightly roswell we we try to answer every question which is a short terrible lesson hundred forty character response okay we put the text to these minimal maxims we call them down lastly focus whatever we put them in the show notes and if you don't have anything pithy it's ok on where we can monitor on a bit shine tweezers it i'll get us into a show notes unexceptionably really operating characters is not there

they were good also are we collect them all in one place now minimal maxims dot com or first question is from lady lizzie she says it seems like the world is constantly sending messages to net slow down and keep going no matter the cost how does one combat these messages i've a pity answer for you so you tell me what you think about this ryan might might pithy readable answer is moving slowly down the right path will get you there quicker than sprinting behind the herds racing in the wrong direction the others a latin expression and gets astina lente and just means make haste slowly you know measure twice cut once you now living we think like

well i've got to like pull an all nighter i've got to rush through there sir i've got to you know get it out fast and then what we have trouble calculating is like the costs of having to go back and do it or fix it and that's certainly true my only formosa monitor speeds through things and then it's like the problems that this creates usually net out to just i haven't done it right the first time i think busyness has become the sort of status symbol of success sir enter in fact we were we just mistake it for success because ah you know i am busy here when i was in the corporals working eighty hours we worked to three and sixty two days a year and i have to go real busy but really without saying as my lifestyle of control assure no for me successes like how empty my counter is because it means i'm doing should that i wanted to that is pithy i really like that our next questions from palo how do you balance your work life we

your family life when you're trying to build a meaningful business and have to really hard neuron you you have a kid is he to have to carry out ok i called also no kidding yeah yeah and yet you're you're out here i am on the the book grind and and this is part of the this is part of the tax you have to pay for writing a book is is we often mistake as as creative like i wrote a book and now i'm done and what your halfway down now yeah i was there i would try to tell myself is what you get to do but i do have to do it right because like if you dont market it you don't get to do another one right there's no audience right so it it it is a balance i i once ass this and i fell coach house if you guys work these like insane hours we have a family of kids like how do you do it and he was like you have to find the moments inside the moments and what he meant by that is like so from the outside you think like oh like this coach he works like shows up at the facility

it likes five amy works out and then he doesn't die have until like ten or more or whatever right right and then you realize it's like oh okay actually like he shows up at five and that's where he works out like the gym is at the office right so a normal person leaves it leaves at the same time or they go to the gym right like so that they're putting that they've they've built a facility that allows them to do everything in one spot but then also there's like families there all the time there it's like integrated in the thing so they might be at the office from here to hear but they have a much more assertive inclusive like immersive experience you know what i mean it's not like they're not gone for fourteen hours and they show up to this house full of strangers and it's something i've tried to cultivate in my life where it's like i have i'm working from home so i'm upstairs but i'm coming downstairs to get something to drink and i'm spent in fifteen minutes and i kid you know i see there are obviously there are downsizes her switching between tasks and we know like what studies show

this but it's about finding issue working hard and you're really dedicated to what your doing but i think you want to try to not be absentee you know like not be gone you want to integrate these things yeah i liked that as opposed to trying to balance you know all the spinning plates where we were you you are you're to mix my metaphors here and you you you're integrating instead of balancing quite often and things you find ways to do that at least in my life it it's been a lot more pleasant to to i don't believe a work life balance so much as i believe and work life integration where possible now also realizing that maybe whether its power i want someone working in a cubicle somewhere you don't always have that opportunity you might be in a season of your life where does require balance yeah yeah yeah i mean look the there's a period for a chunk of my twenties where i was very much out of balance right because you had to be to sort of make your bones and to get to

position where you had more autonomy but also the american pair apparel days yeah i worked not far from here at a talent agency in hollywood for awhile and it was a research assistant for writer i just did like a bunch of stuff all at the same time and and but that i didn't so have a family you know like it with the idea was like this is that period do all the things now but it's also being like people also knowing that your work you better be working time it's autonomy or you can get sort of trapped you know what i'm saying yeah yeah i i find that we mistake this idea of job security i i think jobs curious is the least secure thing because at any moment that the two com that i worked for was eventually bob other telecom they closed all the stores that i was no longer there anyway i had i been there in my nice secure jobs when the people if you live in the health care and security that now that i've been laid off just like everyone else ray and so so

it's almost a misnomer when we talk about security the most secure thing is fine autonomy that that you're a meanness our paulos actually working toward that he's building his own business that further the pity it's er i will give you power is hard work isn't the same thing as meaningful work yeah and because i think quite often we confuse that if i'm working hard and i mean yeah you can you can run around in circles my daughter does this until she gets is the idea that there's nothing meaningful about that but she feels like she's doing something productive cause she's running around in circles but i've been your point about integration verse balance psycho kay you know that said some morning and i've got twelve p m flight and i've also what an exercise it's like oh i'm gonna put my son in the stroller and run with him do you know what i mean so it's like now i've taken two things i have to and combine them together and enjoyable and its into its integrated in that way i find it parenting doesn't often feels less than

for an end to what by that is part of printing is laying try may be doubted the year every moment it is simply showing up and in being present with the kid allow me only have one care and i don't always on that is meaningful i'm gonna sit down and be productive gonna write you two thousand today or whenever like me there's like some product of that the product of parenting is is also there but it seems far more nebulous and in the moment with theirs interview i read with jerry seinfeld once and he was like his parents royce hog my having that quality time with their kids i dunno what that means is like he's like i like garbage time with my kids it's eating cereal like eleven p m should be in bad or you know what i mean like like did

idea that leg parenting or family time has to be dislike special stuff like actually this is a lot of pressure on did like long distance relationships are like we didn't see each other on the week at during the week now or here on the weekend we have to do something big and it's like you don't have to do anything right and in fact that might actually be putting additional like you've you're out of step with each other and now you're trying to do this complicated dance where you and you know you cramming in a trip on the weekend or you know going out or seeing people on it's like you could just stayed at home on the couch you would have had much more meaningful and interaction so that i think that the other two thing with kids like saying i'm i'm i'm and gone and i'm home and suchlike have to make up for this and it's like no use to sit there while they play with trains on the floor like that's that's that

parenting the absolute later i found one most me for things we do almost every night is as we use a family my my and i am and our sexual daughter was walk around the block once yes and and id it's it's it's ritual lie so we do it most nights and and i find that that is far more meaningful than my eye and now we have to try to do trampoline park and we hear those things are fun and ensures that there is a time for those but if you work that into every day if that was your daily expectation you continue to up the rush hold and air and at some point and you know we're like bungee jumping every evening in order to just to have fun and also like garbage time is pretty much free you know don't like your walk is free right now like so people like oh you know a privilege and but like the best things i don't have anything you know me

the war is the special thing it's not it's the walk is probably has more of an impact on your kid than like over a long enough timeline unlike sending them to it hence a private school or something i would argue yeah it's funny they are i'll ask her about eighty percent of the time we did blank and it's always like some amazing thing when she was two years old shit now dont remember it at all but she remembers the sort of inconsequential and nothing gets how life is you know you never you know it's not always big moments that that you were in fact it in the book you talk about our last being a bit of a problem right because what we want these peak expired and says whether whether it is there an orgasm or winning the trophy for the the race or whatever it is we wander less like i gotta go too much you pete you because i gotta get in sudan photo and then you know of cross out off my bucket less than leah all the cool people i know i've been there

yeah yeah well shot that you got some pithy stuff there to to tweeze out all right and we've got a bunch more surprise questions this week how do i find stillness in the middle of a crisis how do i find peace in a toxic relationship to which i am legally bound how do i cut the brain noise to stay focused on one project at a time how do fine quiet living in chaotic urban surroundings how can i find peace despite crew pain and many more of your questions also we'll talk about napoleon best email inbox tipp that was fun also whereas i was restored wisdom la journaling why don't like journaling and ryan it convinced me that maybe i should be journaling how successful people right charge in their downtime we're gonna talk about silence we're gonna talk about tiger were his dreaded e word we'll talk about confidence vs ego and we're talk about this

the difference between leisure and escape is and if you wanna hear all that you can listen to this week's maximal episode available exclusively on patriarch that's right carlos tore weekly minimal episode but each week as you know it will meet let me skip the script this week up our cash on let me just say this ever weak on adrian we do a long form podcast recalled him maximal episode we just finished recording this one with ryan holiday i can agitated this it's one of the most meaningful conversations that i've ever had we answered a bunch more questions we had a really great conversation about sex this about stoicism a bow ok stuff about silence being the nuts necessarily the absence of all sound we talked about how certain successful people charge in their downtime we just is we had a really meaningful conversation we talked about writing and tips for writing increase

activity ryan holiday and i just really hit it off on the maximal episode i would encourage you to listen to that you can listen to it in your regular podcast app if you become a patron supporter also we're capping our patriot support at six thousand people because we decided that's enough so there are still some spots left if you do want to be part of the minimalist private podcast it's a separate long form podcast every week where we really dive deepened to your questions we we get caught personal on that and ways that we don't talk about things in public if you're interested in that and you want to go a lot deeper with respect to minimalism are stoicism or stillness or the topics we tackle each week with our guests than head or to the minimalist stockholm slash support you can become a supporter there i know it's just a couple dollars that goes really far and allows us to keep this podcast a hundred per cent advertisement free we think advertisements

we don't want to do them on our podcast and so mew those of you who are patron supporters keep this podcast alive and keep it a hundred percent advertised free find all the details and all the good stuff over the minimalist stockholm slash support and now here some voicemail comments attempts from our listeners georgian ryan my name is nearly bender i'm calling from lincoln the brass car i'm calling today because we have a great solution for what to do with an old wedding dress especially for credit outdated and not likely to be worn again the it was in my area have a wonderful program the volunteers who take old wedding dresses and burial gowns for instance i think this is a great way to honor these children and i know there's something the families mourning the loss of a child will find value in hi this is jesse hazlewood in austin texas and i was listening to

the part cast a woman commented about what's next i declared a now what's next and i think about i've experienced some of anxiety i heard and her voice about ok now now what's and i think that i personally still feel the need to their jobs and not work and at the same time i will go and check my email and now that is a joy to me because i cleaned it out and the image that i'm getting are telling me that i've got a new car or it's my favorite arm shopping say it i really like fashion in researching fashion and am but i to sit down and enjoy that and not worry about oh this isn't clean my house is cluttered and i need to get up and do something and have that extra layer of anxiety on top and then also

clean markets higher when i'm clean it i'm not worried about all the things that i need to do i can actually sit down enjoy doing the things that i and finding joy in my life i shall thanks again to ryan holiday for one of the most meaningful conversations i've had on this main podcast also on our patriot podcast a we just talked about so much i want encourage you to check out his new book stillness is the key it's out this week you can check it out wherever you get books you can find him at ryan holiday and social media ryan holiday dot net is his website it is a great book but also great website email listed so the daily stoic you just go to daily stoic dot com or fall at daily stoic on social media you can find that there is while he's creating something mean four for the world something i think you'll get a lot of value from check out stillness is the key his letters book and rock

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one of my favorite musicians in the world and since we ve been talking about chaos today that the sort of chaos of everyday life lets us into a song that's about just that his son called solution to run from one of my favorite music since andy davis this is from his twenty twelve album heartbreak yellow you live here today with just one message we hope this love people and use things because the opposite never works i solicitor

we'll see naxa raised so long maj gen greed seek new dressed in bodies change