Hosted by the moth, the virtual math teacher institute brings together in service fifth through 12th grade teachers from across the country who currently use or are eager to bring moth stories to their classrooms and school communities. The fall moth teacher institute will be held over resume on October twentieth october, twenty seventh november third november, tenth and november seventeenth from four thirty and seven thirty p m eastern standard time. Registration is open until august thirty first, but if you register and pay before july, thirty first you'll receive a free copy of the moths newest book. How to tell a story for more information: go to more information, dot, org, slash, moth dot. I we hope to see you at the moth teacher institute. This fall welcome to the moth podcast, I'm dan Kennedy every week in twenty,

twenty two. The moth has been celebrating twenty fifth anniversary by taking a look back at each year along the way in this episode where at two thousand and eight we had our. First international main states show in Perth Australia and are for foreign language moth night, induce and bay as you stand with stories in russian and tajikistan, and then we started a podcast. This one which you're listening to right. Now. Here's the oars Jim story of the moth podcast In the early days of podcasting, I had been a guest. Don jesse thorns podcast, the sound of young america back then, went to Jesse's apartment in downtown los angeles, and that was it. That was the studio. I only had a very basic understanding of what podcasting was back, then to the interview jesse asked if I'd like to stay and be a guest on another podcast of his called jordan jesse go ahead.

this moment where I thought this is like punk, rock or indie music. All over again, everyone's producing their own work. There is no gatekeeper to getting on the air any more. This is went to change everything and, of course it did from los angeles. I flew to perth to do our first international moth mainstage, show literally on the other side of the world from our usual downtown new york stomping grounds, and I got an email from apple. It was about a book. I was promoting a comedic book about my getting hired at. Atlantic records and about how the music business as we knew it was about to change completely apple was starting to invest heavily in audio content on there still relatively new itunes music store, and they wanted to record this live event at the apple store and so her, where I'd be in conversation with someone about my book in Perth, I was with Leah town, the moths, then eggs

It could have director and also Sarah Austin, genetics and I have leah, if she'd beyond stage with me at the apple event, and so how I feel the conversation could be bigger than me and the book that way it could be about podcasts, however, things changing and storytelling and what we were doing them the moth, but then I said this: could also be the moment where we announce that the moth is releasing a podcast. never mind that we didn't have one yet or that of us, knew how to make one I'll just seen, Steve jobs announced the release of the iphone five months before it was ready to be available. How hard could have podcast be compared to a phone that would change the world We attach and Sarah were excited and Leah called the moth artistic director, catherine burns and Catherine said. Yes, let's do it

and the rest of the team, Jennifer hickson, meg balls, everyone jumped on board, which was a big deal, because we were still selling actually a good amount of cds at our shows on the march table. So I was basically the person saying hey. I have a great idea for us will give stories away free every week forever. I remember all of us and Paul Ruiz S. Studio in chelsea asking other the question: what is this, what is it sound like we, with the moth sounded like onstage, but what about people's headphones?. Somewhere along the line. We got it right, Kate, tellers volunteered to edit it and courage ban. We launched the first episode ever and got one hundred downloads. We were over the moon, We had not anticipated that kind of success almost six times the amount of people who come to the near rican cafe for one of our slams

and then we realized, oh, my god. More and more people are showing up to listen to this thing, the numbers weren't stopping We created a radio show before we had a radio show nobody giving us permission. Nobody telling us how something like this should sound and one thousand seven hundred people around the world had showed up for it. Last time I checked, the podcast was downloaded almost one hundred million times in an average year, The weirdest thing about all of it is it's nothing. Anyone could have ever planned like now and he per cent of outside success, we were all part of a perfect storm, a storm that started clear back when founder george green first invited his friends over to tell stories on his friend wanders porch on a little island in georgia working hard, for it ended the success. Your hard work from. laurie tellers staff host volund.

Tears, the support of you, the listener and the audience, but here's the thing lots of people work. Basically, everyone in the world works hard, in stories figure in but again millions and millions of people are talented, and everyone in the world has a story. The fact is, and someone way smarter than me- malcolm gladwell, has written beautifully about this outside? Success has a lot to do with all of the things that I mentioned, but also simply being in the, take place at the right time. somehow also millions of tiny lucky things happening against all odds, as if you haven't heard enough of me amran on here's one of the first stories we ever played on them off podcast. It's a story. I holding two thousand seven at bumbershoot.

In seattle this is called I'm paid to write, love letters to phil Collins here it is light of tomorrow in my twenties, I worshiped at the altar of punk rock, and I listened to bans like acts and the circle jerks and a handful of bans like this and later on, the pixies and ban. I like called vomit launch ends I and I sort of thought like a lot of twenty somethings worshiping at the altar music altar that I should and possibly just become one of these punk legends, and I I didn't. I didn't let the fat that I didn't have any predisposition to musical talent or songwriting energy.

To that decision. So I thought it's really time. I become one of these punk rock legends. I need to quit my day job, so I quit my day job at the wreck. store in very northern california, where I was working and to, just two weeks before the music seen in seattle exploded and I took a meagre savings. I had and I filled up the gas tank. In my second hand, car I bought a second hand, acoustic guitar and I drove for twelve hours in the opposite direction of seattle, On a tip that the music scene was going to explode in Austin Texas, not seattle right, so I get down to Austin and I'm lucky I book a gig right away and it doesn't

they occurred to me that this should be terrifying news, because I don't have any songs and I'm not much of a guitar player, and I I go and I play What is the year like? Well, I've got like a journal with stuff in it. That has pissed me off. for the last year or so, and also to weave add into whatever I'm doing up there in the songs kind of happened in those sort of explode out of my soul. Like angst accident, the revolution will begin and I'll be on the front lines of it. yeah. It'll be fun, so I went and played the gig. It did not go well to put it mildly and they they I'd like to think as a matter of being ahead of my time, but I didn't, I just remember like sort of plane in open e and and kind of being like a girlfriend talks to her, it's boyfriends who march on the phone like looking to see if the revolution is starting and it's like. So not.

although there is an older man at the bar, whose extremely drunk, who yells out that I'm a genius. This was not have to stoke the fire of the dream. However, on the way back to I was staying that night, I see a a cover of spin magazine and it says in big letters. Seattle, music scene, explodes so I'm out of money and I'm on the wrong side of the coast. Basically, I I really couldn't be further away from where I need to be. I turn around and pack up, I start heading back up and I get to northern california and it kind of I need to get my job back at the record store to save up some money together to seattle and it's a little bit humiliating cuz. It's only going to take four days yeah. So Y k. You know guys how's it going like I totally you remember what I said. You know, and I feel bad about that

be a legend or whatever you guys can stay here until you want to do. But I need some shifts and if Gary is not working, the closing shift I'd cover it. You know, and by the time I get to seattle, it's like a year and a half later but everything has already happened and as everybody in this certainly knows by the time something's on the cover of spin magazine it's over anyway. So There's really nothing going on for me because I don't have any real songs or talent and the scenes kind of but exploded ones out onto organ in famous, so I instantly decided to become a guy who's not going to sell out not yeah, never mind that nobody is asking about buying And never mind that I have nothing to sell anyway, I'm not going to sell out and I get a couple day- job sort of prerequisite.

talk to anyone who will listen about how I'm never going to sell out and one of my day jobs was counting. I forgot that I made a note not to mention this in front a lot of people, but one of my data was counting forks eta catering company for large large parties and I count them in the batches of one hundred for like the microsoft party and stuff like that, and I did this with a middle eastern man, god bless him name ottis and he didn't speak a lot of english, but he did have to sort of listened to my diatribes about how I was never going to sell out so it'd be like counting our forks I'd be like sad. You know what I mean auto like what are these bands are doing man like I'm. Never I would never do that. I'd never take the corporate money man, and that is the sort of like you now again is there and. I'm like you know like pearl jam and

it's just a sad with it and when I say like those band names, he gets visibly excited because he Yes, yes, nirvana like no bad what they did not good. yes so I come, None of that sort of black out a thirty five year old man living in downtown new york city. And I have a very tiny apartment and it's furnished with a chair and a table and a futon on the floor, and I think this proves I'm pretty intense right like this is, I am, I am keeping it real. I'm sort of a bad ass like look at my house, it doesn't have anything in it and it's tiny yeah, then I'm thirty five,

and so I'm like, I'm clearly, you know I'm suffering that disease that some men suffer when they turned thirty five, the one where you think you're still as cool as you were, when you were twenty and it's tragic and so I'm like you know, I'm I'm really thinking like that, I'm pretty cool. I literally have this thought process that when people who were like twenty five look at me, they're like here's their thought process, I actually think oh there's a guy who's kind of a little bit older he's like thirty five, but you can tell he cool still is a cool thirty five year so right, on the phone with a friend of a friend whose offer me a job is something called a director creative director at atlantic records and I'm like Well I am trying to. I am you know that sounds like corporate bullshit or whatever, but At same time, I'm like seriously like how much is it like, wow and so

I know I could try it dude, but I'm going to have to like do kind of my shit. My way, a little bit like He's like my friends, like whatever and do you want to come in and talk to these people and like yeah, no yeah, definitely some! I! thinking. I literally am convincing myself like. Oh the way this adds up as they can tell I'm still really cool, so they're hiring me, like thirty, of your old guy, who Is going to work there, but keep it really intense cause? I'm still like got my feet on a street type of thing and I'm thinking I'm I go there and I'm gonna like take these really sonically challenging bands like no one's ever heard of of I'm going to like make these these advertising. marketing campaigns and videos, and I'm going to gonna introduced. Like my role, is I'm going to introduce these intense bands to the other thirty five year olds, who don't get it right so day, one on the job. My first big assignment comes down and I find out,

I'm going to be riding a national ad campaign that will celebrate twenty five years of heartwarming love songs by phil Collins So I'm alright, alright, okay, whatever I can do this like, I can do my kind of take on this. You know like. Fine like a hardcore angle here. You know and right so then the phone in my office rings and I have an office which is sadly huge news in my family at age. Thirty, five and have an assistant which was startling to me and It brings me a little bottles of chilled water when I need to do stuff- and this is apparently really important when you need to think that an assistant brings you a little thing of water, like thanks man, and then I can I felt like no I'm selling out, so I started telling her like I'll get my own water. You know like that was my version of keeping it surreal

like Sarah, don't worry about it, I'll get it thanks I could use a water though thank and so then the telephone in my office rings and it's the president of the label, and he says I listened, and I just want to remind you, whatever you're working on for fill, Collins, you know his his audiences that forty to fifty year old women, so you need to be riding in that voice. mike ok cancer. Like awesome, Now, I'm a man in an office writing like a fifty year old woman. which I'm finding harder and harder to make seem like I'm keeping it real to myself and I wanna you know I'm like alright. Let's see we got here so I restless thing the ground and I'm in office for like nine hours on day one and at the end of the nine hours of pacing around wondering what the hell I've done with my life, I'm going. Okay, I got a headline and atlanta was I who was really your first love and I'm like

but a panic in day to lock myself and therefore like nine hours, and am I a headline I come up with was something: oh, here's. Here's to the voice of love, and it's all like hallmark cards that aren't filed under a holiday they're just filed under like because you know we're friends it like oh vague stuff. After the generally feels good once that, and so so a sort of again a friggin out. I need a break, so I walked down to the corporate sort, a kitchen there in the hallway and am make myself a cup of coffee. I'm thinking and I walk in and there's this- do and he works there. I've seen him around he's got tattoos from like his fingertips all the way up to like his neck, I'm like god and I look at this guy and he's got piercings that are not. I feel old I'm calling them piercings there they're, like they're, just buying only doing things to his skin. That's like he's got like it's like I'm in parts are jammed.

through his ear. Like a like a wrought iron. Chaise lounge is hanging from his head. and he has fashioned his hair into this situation, where you shave just a little spot about the size of a half dollar and you in your diet, green and you spike it make it a spike. So he's got a green, spiked, red hair and I'm like. This guy and I'm like and hear somebody I can relate to you know like it's finally, somebody like me a sort of intense little bit older, who cares the and so on? I really wanted to impress this guy and I'm, like you know, I'm like hey man, how's it going and he's like pretty good. How are you and so I go yeah. I just need a cup of coffee and I didn't want to go downstairs to like the corporate bullshit, sell out coffee place, six bucks leg whatever and make my own and he's like

yeah, we actually just got a machine at home that makes them is like six hundred bucks, but it's so sweet. You can just make your own lattes and stuff, and I was like, oh my god,. and like I was like oh that's, cool and then he's like yeah we're just remodeling our whole kitchen, so we're getting all this stuff like we have like granite countertops. I bought this big place and my wife is like. Oh, I want to do good kitchen, so I'm like okay, honey, I'm like Jesus Christ. what's happening right now like like, you have this shift inside me like I came in for a cup of coffee and I got an identity crisis. I'm like. and things like I want that stuff like I want I want stuff, I want furniture, went like a nice kitchen. I want I didn't know we were allowed to want that and still be intense. Like You are moments like that. That moment, when you found out, we can like prince. You know it was like oh seriously like or forgot liking. Purple rain,

why she goes tell me. I was hiding that shit and so I'm like okay. This is a major ship like I. I want to make this work, let's nail this phil thing, because you know I came in there. Sort of going like I'm just stuck in this is a port in the storm and that the high journey on the high seas. You know my intense one man sallow, finds his way across the world is going to continue, but I'm just duck in here for a minute right. So I talked to that dude and I'm like. Oh my god. I don't want to go back out there. You know, like but fuck the heist. I don't want to go on the high sea. I don't want to do the journey alone or whatever, like I'm going to be here with these guys like this, is good nice, stuff lots of money so It was really sad when he went back. I met the like I'm going to keep it real guy cause. I was just I just kind of was like a spasm walking like. I want the kitchen, though it was the fact that people really oh, no, no, no, I get back in my office and my boss is sitting in the office and an I'm I'm like hey how's it going

What really good have you had? Any time to work on the phil collins thing and I'm like ants pretty much what I've been doing for three days been locked in here, like you know, martin sheen and fucking apocalypse now, I'm thinking yeah, I think, of a little time, but then I also this quiet. Panic run like oh my god. Oh, my space be like doing other stuff at this job too. and was like yeah I have I have she goes. You can stop wherever you are with it. I was like okay yeah. What's up and she goes well. I just talked to phil on the phone and He and his manager, Tony don't want to make a big deal out of this they're, like you know, they know it's the twenty fifth year. You know they know it's a big thing, but their words were not caring cancer. This is just pop music. Let's keep it and low key and then the weirdest thing happened. I was like, oh my god, Phil Collins seems cool and it was like I was like really. He said that that seems pretty cool. He seems cool, I like him or whatever,

fuck is it was happening to me and and some you know I'm just I'm I'm dislike. You know what here's the thing I've been in here for three days already straight. I have like somebody who wants to bring me bottles of water. You guys are paying me this money, I got. You know all of a sudden. What am I doing nothing? I have an assistant to help me do nothing like you know it's like well here's what we're going to do with the ad we're just going to make it a picture of phil in the number twenty five and I'm like. Oh my god, I'm thinking like. seriously and she's like just number twenty five and I was like where's the craft and then where's the writing. There's no line. There's! No! You don't even eat me here- this is a sham. It's bullshit- this is everything. Adulthood is built on and I like completely refused to participate. Basically. and was what I was thinking, and

What I heard myself say at that moment was: ok yeah, just a kind of a simple elegant sorghum I like it, tonight could be nice way to go sure Read that moment. That's the second at drink, the corporate kool aid, and I basically realized at that moment. You know if, if forced to be someone else and do some one else and act like some one else and look like someone else and dress like someone else just to to to succeed, you gotta walk away. I mean that's what you have to do and and that's what I did I didn't walk away per se. but, however, eighteen months later, I was laid off in a series of job cuts But the point is, I'm I'm back out here and I'm keeping it real. So you know thanks

a couple of decades and change go by and you learn a lot about stories and story structure. What makes something work or not, I completely wooden, Tell this story the same way today I could feel punchlines worked in telling the story and where they didn't, I held back certain things I knew or left out certain things altogether. That's what we do as people, it's your life, it's yours, movie. Basically I knew I was actually super excited to get this assignment the first week on the job. I knew I loved the music of phil Collins that love There are started with the nineteen. Seventy eight genesis album then there were three an album that my sister and I would play endlessly growing up practical. Thirty years later, I read phil collins autobiography cover to cover in a trance the week it came out. Then I read my favorite chapters over again I've since obsessed over the type of vintage ludwig concert,

arms he played on that. I conic part on in the air tonight and- the gear. He used to record the very first solo demos in that house he bought in the country. I write in film and television now and obviously never guilty about writing. What I know will make a scene funny, leaving out what will weigh down a punchline but over the last fifteen years, I felt bad about having done that same thing on stage and in my book when telling the best phil collins story, I'll, probably ever have in my pocket, my boss, it atlantic records. She in fact hired the perfect writer for the job I still to this day play, and then there were three or abacha. or duke all, at full volume in the middle of the night. In my studio, when I need to feel happy and instead,

I, and also so many of the hits off the solo albums easy lover. His collaboration with philip bailey from earth wind fire. Take me home. I missed again one more night and on and on I love phil collins. Since nineteen seventy eight. That's all for this episode. We hope you enjoyed our look back at the moth podcast from everyone here at the moth. Have Story worthy week, Dan Kennedy is one of the original developers of the moth podcast and a long time host and performer at the moth he's the author of three books. Loser goes first rock on an american spirit and the co create

or as the new comedy fiction, podcast k, p. O d d, one a one point: three: with maximum fun networks: Benjamin r Harrison K, p, o d d is available wherever you get your podcasts, this episode of the mouth podcast was produced by Sarah Austin, genus, Sarah Jane Johnson and me, MARC Salinger, the rest of the moss leadership team includes kathryn burns, Sarah haberman jennifer, hixon, meg bowles, Kate, tellers jennifer, Birmingham, marina luce, susanne, rust, randon, grant Lee and gully inca la dow sky and all the casa. All my stories are true as remembered by their storytellers for more about our podcast information on pitching your own story and everything else go to our website. The moth dot org, the moth podcast is presented by pierre x, the public radio exchange, helping make public radio more public at pier, X, dot, org.