« The Ringer NBA Show

Ep. 46: Conference Playoff Outlook, and Three Guys Better Than Their Stats Suggest

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor discuss Russell Westbrook's triple-double standard (5:00), decide which teams are out of the playoff picture in each conference (15:00), pick three guys who are better than their stats suggest (22:30), and break down Kevin Love vs. Klay Thompson(38:00).

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Well go to another issue: the railroad viejo, I'm crows, vernon joining me all this to day ass. He will every two day throughout the nba seas and kevin oconnor from the rain or what's ok, let's go chris. Thanks for having me onto their so last night, you wrote the king in a cord feature on the ringer today last night. Big story is Russell westbrook and now averaging triple double use. Now, dutifully tied this into west world, which, which I don't watch, do artwork world. I watch first world we signal sunday night Chris and I love every moment of it. Oh you'd recommend yes, I I I care of what recommended firefox it's one of those shows that, for me,
every monday morning. I am already looking forward to the following sunday and there are a lot of shows that I've watched in my life, where I just can't wait for the next episode, breaking bad being one of em westwards. voices and one for the perfect time to start on a bench watching the first nine others leaning over the sunday. Spinelli, you seriously gotta watch it are you? How long would it take me to get interested like after one episode? Am I gonna be interested or no yeah? I think so. It's time to show you can't be like the phone or like watching it, it'll be a game while you're watching it, you gotta be all in on a western focusing on it because it it definitely requires. that amount of attention in order to get a short attention span. So, like a really first episode, somethin able to remember now never finished It is probably bad example remembering, like guy,
game of thrones, like the first episode, the kid like flies out the window at the end of the first episode, I was like damn it. What happened in that like when I had to watch the next episode yeah, I know what you mean by like you're, a wine- sometimes, I suppose So, let's dieback do Russell westbrook, though you have given a rave review for west world Russell weapon. now averaging a triple double after last night and won the crazy things came out. As I saw you wrote about it, other way analysed we're talking about it last night. This comparison to ask Robertson who famously had a season wary average to triple double. I was prepared unaware of the ridiculous amount of possessions last that today's players, actually use the amount of shots amount of rebound like it's. A westbrook is, is doing this, the less available opportunity than Robertson did. I didn't realize the game was that fast way back when you so last night
I was just thinking. I got here one of the differences between the season oscar robertson that it ends what what's westbrook is doing now through nineteen games and the obvious the obvious thing is pace back, teams playing a lot quicker and honestly, like, like you said I, I was surprised at just the difference in the shots per game and nineteen sixty two and oscar Robertson said it: they attempted over one hundred seven shots per game, whereas today it's about eighty four shots per game, so a is a lot fewer possessions for westbrook to tally. All these numbers get all these rebounds. All these points and assists and he's getting on people say he's hunting for rebounds and that's kind of true to an extent, but there's still less opportunity for him to actually do it and the fact he is is really remarkable. What do you think the chances are gimme a percentage chance? He could pull this off me. We are almost a fourth of July
through the seas, percentage, J D, get really embassies and averaging a triple double hulled You know, I'm don't say forty percent, I'm not gonna get over fifty. Just just because it so hard to do, and there are so many variables over the course of a year, and I think at some point at some point during the season. There's gonna be a time where he's just not crash in the boards is, or they require in him to score a little bit more, which leaves the fewer says. I just I think he'll be close, but I dont know if he'll get that the ten rebounds an the terrorists of data, which would you think he'd be less likely to get.
I almost think the assent procedure dependent on other guys hitting shock yeah yeah, it's like in a way you can almost control the rebounds, but the assistance depended on his tea made. Two, quite frankly, aren't great sir. I think I lean towards thesis as well for us, but but the man it's hard, I mean, I want to say, he'll get it, but it's such a hard thing to do. warriors one there twelve game in a row and there really rock and they beat atlanta last night and the two drain On stops down, the stretch were just absurd. getting switched on onto shrewder and an engine packing him, and then he and he stabs baseboard slaps it off of him out of bounds? I mean these are two plays unbelief the game on the line he he jabbed after the game about how you know he's kind of pissed off that after they lost that people thought events would go down here. It's always got somethin approve and yadda yadda, yadda and so
not a lot. Attention will be paid to the to the jabbering afterwards, but just in terms of the actual play I mean those are like defensive savant place. He was ridiculous yeah by eventually he said he is. He feels a little bit slighted em. At the same time, I mean that whatever works, like whatever is gonna pushy too, to maximize your abilities. Last night I was talking to he o donnell from explanation and eighty joseph from sporting news- and we can talk about what's more. And because I uttering a dollar said how those few tricks there's nothing special about re mine. Does it's just effort, you gonna want it, and- and He said well, he's got law, arms, freakish, ass, lady super, quick for a big guy. That's why siberia. That's true, but I thought I think
What dream mod has he has all the qualities that you look for in a defender. He has the long arms he has the quickness. He has the strength, but he also plays of maximum effort and he's super smart. I mean he has he's just a melting pot of all the traits that you want to have in a defender and, quite frankly, some of the plays we saw last night were from him were just examples of why he is arguably the best defender in the league. Arguably they should be one of the leading highlights on his defensive player of the year highlight reel. So I think I think what he's doing is really remarkable and whenever he motivation he needs to push himself to play at that level. Is pretty cool thing I love a good dollar saying that I love that coaches are going to go to little Bobby the day of practice all about effort, but that is so bogus. Of course, a freak of nature, really Andre Iguodala is the one saying that right, yeah, there's there's you know what I mean: there's nothing there. Mystery. You just got gotta bureau he's gotta play hard. Well, I do
I dunno like cow corporate- can play as hard as he wants he's, not he's not staying in front of somebody and offer for sure. That's true, that's one hundred per cent sure, but My argument is: is that the truly transcendent defence of players are the ones who have those apple atlantic trades, but they also do have the intangibles just like the other way around. If you have I would only intangibles, but no, I fanaticism, he's not gonna make a defender neither is a guy who is all athleticism in really no effort or know best. What like you on the court, it's the blend of those attributes that makes him so greenery, another guy, so great ok, good ala himself. Even one hundred percent emmy ability there there the nba is in fairness to guatemala- is a goofed on. It inverted
there are the emea is a littered with outstanding affluent that are not great defenders, and a lot of that is effort right I mean they they could. They could be amazing defenders right and so to his point, that is true, but the the guys that are truly special. They also have those trade, something at the letter said it like. You can't just my real hard and be a great defender, On the other hand, there are a lot of guys that if they tried really hard, they could be great defenders. I think about a guy like Jeff, green Jeff, green he's, probably one of the like in the top percentile of athletes in the league, but he a different put in good effort. I think you know that
seeing him with the grizzlies is done on. Every team he's been on where he shows flashes of what he can be, but he never puts altogether. He doesn't have great basketball, I q or feel he. I don't think he. I don't think he feels the game. Jeff green, but he's a guy where, if he did have those attributes, I can easily see him being one of the best offenders in the lake, but he's not he's not unless he live. In all the time any make any commit salami and but that's something he's never really done for any any relevant stretch of his career on arbed there too, with them, I will just greener and prior to rudy. Gay Rudy gave it out and I stand defender there is, I mean if you want, you won't put rudy gay up against any of the athlete he's he's right. There he's top tier and it's just a it's a it's a level of disinterest right there just like either either really want to bear down and you eat you either get here believe it and it matters to you when you're guy scores or doesn't nuns our.
Now, there's a lot of guys that honestly make their way in the nba just by caring, so much of their guy scores against some cause. Coaches, love guys that are going to go out there and defend so the warriors one. There twothe inroad, there's their home and now right. I mean it started off at the beginning of the season and they took the losses and everybody is icu. Maybe they, maybe they didn't I get rid of bogey or maybe their benches a little lighter than it used to be whatever it now. It's like things have started to settle in right through the first week of the season, we're like hey. Maybe the nets aren't going to be terrible and with this happened. This right, exult aren't were now part of with disease and guess what the warriors are totally awesome right, yep for sure our chris, I the other one that I do think is a is worth noting. is everybody's darling, was the minnesota timber wars and they're taking them I was quite a whole now after getting be last night at home by utah, they are five and twelve to start the season.
and is also a means of getting to a longer track back to five hundred? You know it's hard to its hard at the beginning. If you dig yourself a real hole, you can have a really good second half of the season, but man now you're, now you're getting good The whole mode first, are you surprised that we're looking up seven games in the season and it's not like they ve been killed, my injury minister it just has not played well yeah. I'm surprised I picked them for the playoffs and I'm feeling not very smart right now there they have just completely fallen short of expectations that I had at least, and I think that a lot of other people shared as well.
and man, it's a they are so great in the first half of games, and I think a lot of you on twitter talk about this. They does fall apart and third quarters they didn't last night, but over the course of the season bay they have- and I just don't know if, even if they fix that third quarter issue, it doesn't necessarily mean, though, maintain their stellar plan. The first half things things with equal. I saw over the course of a year. I think you know you mentioned how the nets started off. Maybe they're not as bad as we think are the warriors, maybe they're not as great as we think. Well, the wolves probably aren't a superpower in the first half right, like they are so far the season that that They'Re- probably not the worst team in the league and the third
quarter either there or somewhere in the middle, and that team is probably exactly what their record is: five and twelve six and ten type of team- and I just don't know what the solution is. I I watch this team and I have a hard time putting a finger on what they need to do and part of me wonders. I mean a couple of weeks ago. I wrote the article about teams that should tank, I'm wondering if Maybe they should actually be one of those teams, because there have been rumours firm years now about them wanting to trade Ricky Rubio, maybe maybe it would make sense for them to add another top player in the draft and suddenly have a core of wiggans towns. Diamond whoever else they. I would note I really I'd look around I'd see what can it I'd see? What kind of return I could get on Levine? I think wheeled around guide, I built around wiggins in towns and get me guys around them right here. I think bearing police levy
it is Levine one of those role guys. I know he's not a role player he's, not a guy. That's just going to settle into a role like you need these. You know every every one of these teams you go back through time. They've got the rick fox they've got the bruce bo when they've got the these type of players right and sometimes that you know where you're putting them. Those are. The best fits next to stars is to get legitimate guys that know their role willing to play their role, keep the ball, moving. I mean that teams got two bonafide possible superstars and I think I would look and I would build. I would I outrider I try to see what kind of value I could get for some of my other guys and build with some really good role: players around them. Now that that has make sense her a semi, but maybe you know, depending on what they want to do. I know I know people are saying that I want the deal for a veteran right. I'm pretty sure that's been a rumour that some
woodard around out there, but maybe maybe the other side of that is you know if you were to deal levine for one of those role, players that you're mentioning one of those veteran players and your team might get a little bit worse immediately. Cause levine is one of their top scores, some he's one of their top. three point shooters. So maybe a little bit worse when your current build, but your building for later I'm just I think that this approach for them, you think about you, think about what, these teams, though in the past right and was not but wigand towns or not shack and call be, but I do think aids instructive. If you take a look back and you go right, they were playing with robert ory, Derek fisher and rick five ron harp these gonna guys right that two's around the stores and
even in houston when they made their under the finals. If Patrick Beverly, its trevor reasons, corey brewer right, you got stars and you got role players on teams, and I just don't. I don't know that's what I do if you know about the gm, the wolves. But what do I know? What would you do now we're looking at these standing as, of course, I am almost a fourth of the way through the season for some of these tee aims. Is it fair to say the only ones we would kick out in the east and we'd say: ok, beating Don't have any shouted the players or I would kick out orlando miami brooklyn and philly I'll leave washington with a punchers chance in washington. freud in Milwaukee. Those are the three on the outside closest to the eighteen right now I mean you even give washington a chance. If you want, I suppose, that's fine. There is the bank's board. I give him a chance. You get here and at least a little bit of a chance when, at the same time I mean you can look at my
me and say: oh well, they have a fine, whiteside dry judge winslow there, only one one game worse than than washington, but by but yeah. I I think I would put Washington and up the programme category, but they at least have a little bit of a chance. I gave overlooking the western for a are. We kicked out of the playoffs already. Do the pelicans have a chance? What say you so I'd say Dallas, definitely out phoenix out new orleans and minnesota. They have a lot of talent on their team, but chances are things, aren't looking too good for them and really at say it similar to the east curse swear in portland stolen the conversation the lakers are still in it denver, is good enough talents stay competitive sacramento, I don't love their chances, but they do have boogie I don't want to say no completely to new Orleans minnesota just because of the amount of town they have in their teams, but just for their sources. Statement by the really gonna dig out of a bay hall, the only
you're saying in any nba better than have no chance at the play off. Right now are Phoenix Dallas, miami or lando brooklyn philly, realistic page or you know, kicked out the wizards to their debts I mean wizards are borderline and I'd say the ones that are definitely outer brooklyn philly phoenix doubts, but that's not really like a hot taken I'll, say a map recently wrote about the teams that are better than what their record indicates its touch on those real, quick a lot of people really high on utah. Coming into, season and it seems that a am a they went through injuries earlier in the year. They had to play that gordon hayward they had to play without giorgio but you're, starting to like that, allowed and think that their record is not an indicator. A level of team. They are yes,
on Monday, we published an article in the rear dot com about baldos lie, but winds and losses due and the jam the time or nine may now there ten and ape That's not really indicative of how great they ve been as a team. They have the fifth best net rating, in the nba. They have a second best defence of rating baby. They ve done this despite the fact that they had injuries to Gordon, a word and george hill to start the season heyward miss schemes in the broken finger favours is out so they ve, injuries in, despite that, their states still had a really good number is right that they should have shut up and the winds com, because the amount of bam injuries, ipad ages. Love their mix of town on their team, I think been more versatility them, maybe most seems the league they're built to win their built to defeat different types of teams and
we'll see over the course of the seas and that their there actually, probably the fourth or fifth best, in the west and not the seventh eighth. Ninth excite may have been in recent weeks the other teams that you think record is not an indicator of what they are. First, such role with the pelicans. When you think about the parliament. so the pelicans obviously aren't a great team and are not a true contender by any means, but I think I think they're bad start was largely due to the fact that A holiday without ease their second as second best player behind Anthony Davis, and now that he's back, he really changes things for them at both ends of the floor holidays, really steady presence on the offensive abandoned defensively, he's a great great defender at the point of attack, so I I don't think there are necessarily a pay off team, but I dont think through the body, the feeder team, that a lot of people were talking and talking about them as of the beginning of the year and look they gotta make change
They need to make additional so their team, but I think they at least found with holiday. That, though stay competitive is ireland, worse than their record, I don't know if there were some the record, I'm not I'm not sure if they're there better either, though, and that's kind of the problem for them, they have a ton italian talent on their team, but men, like their defence, is really really atrocious. I think that's a problem but then, when you consider, especially all the talent and the west's, I think there are. Whether score a lot of points or have no issues scoring with Damien lunacy, Jamie com, but that team has major issues on the defensive end of the floor, Kevin. So we d o you wrote about the teams like. If we look at their winds and losses, it's not that great of an indicator of what they are. Let's talk about power Yours, you and I both were charged with coming up with three guys. Did it
you looked at their numbers, the raw numbers that you probably wouldn't be able to get the whole story on them will do that when we come back thanks to day sporting goods, you sports matter, student athletes are four times more likely to attend college and are alive. percent more likely to graduate compared to non athletes physically active It also have forty percent higher test scores in fifty percent, less absent. Despite these three points, five billion dollars that have been cut from school sports budgets in recent years. This especially low income families which are four times more likely to decrease participation in sports due to cause programmes across the country are losing funding at an unbelievable rate and need your help join us in the question
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wins when he's out on the court like the defensive, real plus minus numbers, good, I think he's in the top. Sixty in the league, you know offensive rating defensive rating, the team is a plus eight and a half about are there any view. Looked like line up like two may: lineups, three man lives or patterns. I can all of these. Toronto even get a tuna accolades, but like a guy I know I always feel like he's playing some I always feel like he's playing hard he's good when he realised this. john pic and analyses athletic enough. Ain t is tough as nails. He'll fight with anybody down in the post, so I think patterson one one of those guys like you look at em, you look at the numbers and you go. What's the big deal ever averages like seven point, five rebounds says, but he kind of does everything is either please smart, all the time, unlike our now like a dog, I do know why we should call this
as I go on arrived at a dollar, ward or somethin right, because these average alike, I point a game or whatever, and then you watch again glass nigh me just flipped it foot the foot, the game in the third quarter. With tenacity, and so you're never gonna get the full story on a good knowledge by looking at his numbers, at least the first one on this count for me Patrick patterson for toronto, He is a big reason for their success and in fact, patterson and lowry, on the floor there, a plus twelve per week, under possessions this year. I think, he's a good faith. I know, and I don't think the stats tell the whole story- who's your first, so, with my first as a guy who, I think everybody recognizes as having a career year and that's george hill from the utah jazz averaging twenty one points. A game, four assists four rebounds. He shooting fifty four percent from the floor, forty four percent from three, so he has great numbers right. I think anybody
knowledge that, but you know looking at in advance data point called often of box or plus minus on basque borrow from stockholm. I think that really is a really good good indicator of office of six yes and, and he ranks in the top five of the league, amongst guys like Russell westbrook, James harden steph carry Chris Paul Jimmy bawler. All these big name star play everybody recognizes in george hill is right there in the conversation with them with, according to often of boxcar, plus minus and again, he's got a good basic stats the advance data is just ridiculous. On hermes, p ranks and the top three on points per possession scored. According the synergy sports hearing, some atop percentage of effective feel one percent The dude has just been ridiculous through his first time games the season for the jazz and he's he's a big reason why I think they're ready the kind of
actually start winning more than about fifty percent of their games. Georgia, well has always been a guy like patrick Patterson, who is just a steadying presence on both ends of the floor. He's a guy, his teams play well when he's on the floor, but now with you, I think, he's really elevated his game for the next level. He won't sustain this illegal love play, but he's definitely, I think, turned into some and at a higher level than when he wasn't in vienna. Yet he has been standing this year. I just speaks the wooded tough deal. It is because my I was having a great season in Memphis too, and I and over the weekend Erik Spoelstra, said: if he's not an all star, it's criminal, but then you look and you go for like guys like conley and guys, like George hill. Listen chris I was going to be the all star game and Russell westbrook's going to be in the all star game and james harden's, going to be there and steph curry is going to be there and Damian Lillard. we're gonna be there like it just impossible for these guys, like you guys, are having great seasons, outstanding players that are having big uptake, improve in production like I like
or like a calmly and they matter so much to their team and what their team does. And yet they may just died there just up against it. When it comes like all star birth, wonder what the also team would look like if positions than it matter. I really just the best players when I would we see a team of like seven point guards on it it, but I've bought in the west. It's possible. The west Definitely I mean when you got guys like giorgio that kind of a Sea- that's all star, caliber season be harder argue against in my second guy the guy I m a minor all pretty much grinder dried guys it or not like, We touted, probably not a lot of people with their. on their jerseys, but I think they like they just help. We win todd. Gibson is an excellent for me. Again when he's out on the cord, their winning aids plus eight eight point ray in that rating, is right on the costs, would being
Top thirty player and defensive, real plus minus. c p hours great, the only average twelve point again, but I thought this was superman staying and a shot out to my buddy Chris Harrington roger the commercial appeal. He wrote an article about my calmly and gasol and Zach Lowe had referenced them being, like plus nine or ten right, one are out on the court together. And so what christie? If he went back and looked at all the combinations like just two main line ups in the leg and who are the best and how about this you are going to if you pull this tat, because I did it is all like these superstar laden deeds right so recombination is going to be the warriors, the calves or the clippers ripe. The best to man combination in believe that has played over four hundred minutes. It would put that is apparent. saint eyes and quite a lot of minutes together the best to me
in tandem in the lead that has played over four hundred minutes. That is not either part of the warriors. The calves or the clippers is jimmy butler and target. They are a plus ten on average per one hundred possessions, I thought that was incredible right cause. I, like the bulls, have some kind of amazing record, but that was one of the of have to have a two man. Lineup that has played over four hundred it that's the best one? That's not on one of those great teams, so Don't get this angle, I dont think taj does and so todd gibsons, my second bed, I dont think rostov It's necessarily tell the story of how much he helps you winning your next one. My second guys on a team to is a complaint on winning team and that's what John Holmes he's averaging only seven points and for rebounds, and only sixteen minutes per game for the sixers. So so, because
This study must be less worthy playwright. He because he plays with seventy six hours of all teams that that's not really true, I think, thing. Homes is one of the hidden treasures on the six whose young talent roster, but he uses buried between, but behind joel on bead oak, or sorrow. Julia silver, but homes is actually very effective when he does play he's a good sec. Around pick he's efficient, here's an effective hugo percentage of see one which is just awesome: he's a soul rebound her with a defensive, robotic percentage above twenty. So I think perhaps in it different situation or, if the sixth world trade, ok, or and or nor lens noel home, the guy, who I think would actually receive opportunity- and the funny thing is with us- soon. As I look at stats than com and it be homes have only been in there together once and it wasn't even for four minutes and that's a theoretical, frank what did. I would actually like to see cause and be
in homes campbell space, a floor. They can both ramrod big in both rebound. I think those two would be a good theoretic, theoretical mix. You haven't seen it because of the log jam in the front court for the six years, but I like homes alight and if I were them, he's a guy that I wouldn't mind being overlooked because he's someone I think I'd want to hang onto, as maybe my fourth big in the rotation once you know you actually are trying to really win games. Good grief, feel like you're scaring me, because, like one of the five guess this year I said regimes walk in the studio and I would know who he was and immediately you know twitter were like yours, too no part podcast, you don't even know who we're sean homes ism I dont get on and played a game that there was a frigate camera to add in El Dorado you ve just happened to be wanting, we best in the time that he was on the core and I'm sorry, I'm not I'm familiar with. Work and wish on home. So here
I gotta. Listen when twelve, not I'm a sixers diatribe about how great machine homes hits like this guy auxiliaries lockers. Knowing what we want. You a lot. We want. You know a lot of others on doc, juggernaut It might have died when the guy I got to see in person last night and he's a guy that people died to feel like people focus on what he doesn't do, which is shoot threes rather than everything he does do and that's my goal. Gilchrist. I love him. Oh you and I know he's the oh. If you take him too in the draft, I suppose you think he's going to be a superstar, he would have been a good one for europe. Even we article you wrote a couple weeks ago about just winslow like he was kind of the original winslow. Where is just maybe just pick the shot good grief- this guy could be ridiculous. But again a good deal.
it's real plus or minus guy he's got a terrible, p r, the numbers dodge obeyed, but every time I watch him, I I never think What the hell is he doing or what kind of shot? That, like almost almost, never feel that way about it, like, I think he is he's. Never priority is never going to be like got a big superstore bide he's going help teams wind for a long long time in the nba and be a great player? And so you didn't you threes, but man he key fights and he plays every possession hard and they really. I mean you know it s funny, because I looked for some things to validated he oh he's got he's got an obviously there are. There are winning team with him out on the court and the defensive real plus minus numbers are good, and just one king with my own eyes, I always feel what these playing hoard and he's
I that I want, especially like the big playoff games. I feel like he's going to come up with a big rebound or he's going to come up with a big put back or whatever it may be. I just like the guy and puts funny you know, when I looked up like a lot of those like numbers and lineups, etc, of course he's in them as successful, but you know who just Leonard the hornets, the hornets numbers was cody zeller, like like. I was looking to confirm much like I did with taj that kid gilchrist is a big difference. You know but dammit coty ike, almost all their line of combinations that include, like you know, Cambrian, could gilchrist or campbell but to eat when you slide zeller in their it's like, but the numbers go through the roof,
one day, a man. Maybe I should use colleagues hours I'll, give him a shoutout too. I was doing, can gilchrist and then what I found was like. Maybe the biggest difference with that with the with the group of the junta to have his cody seller, who had miss some games recently, but- and I don't think anybody necessarily thinks about him, but just according the numbers early in the season. He is dreamily important what they're doing and they have they been women big with him out on the court. You mentioned earlier, like grinders. Both of those guys are defined riders in some ways with the habits like who cares about their efforts of members just because they do so little things on the floor that that they often go unnoticed either. So I got I got patterson taj and Michael kid. Gilchrist Those are my three guys hoosier, third one, so my first tour otto
from george hill in russia on home is my third: is otto porter from the washington wizards he's a guy who's gonna, notably better a season in his career, just looking at his back extent. Lioness points programme in season have gone from two to six to twelve into almost fifteen. The season A very steady progression but it also got more efficient each year and this season wanting to synergy sports? He scoring one point one points per possession which ranks thirteenth me nba. To put that into perspective he's our on what guys, like Chris tax pausing is engaged erect do, of course, under different players Different rules, different responsibilities, but I think otto Porter is one of the more underrated guys in the league. He's kind of hidden on the wizard son. I think his efficiency speaks to his improvements. Playing within roy, a great shooter, a great cotter he hasn't develop, as a ball handler in a way that I think maybe the wizard hoped, but he has grown within his role and we talked about was its earlier. I think he's one.
Guys where, if she makes a little bit more relieved than me already has a season. Maybe we are talking about them as a seven or eight seed in the east, because they do have talent on their team and otto porter is one of the bright spots that I think often gets overlooked with so much focus on bradley, beal and John wall, and then you do wonder right like what kind of fit that is all three of them together. You know those guys. I mean, I think porter porter to me of the kind of guy that could be out stand. Hang on a really good t, like maybe near a little they may be doing a little less than what is necessary. we're doing right now or possibly may be doing more right. Maybe he maybe he would even be better if he wasn't playing with two guys that you know like that. Have that such a dynamic bout back court and in war,
I I think it's a good point chris, I you know I I wonder I mean there's guys like that all across the league, that you know, yet the right opportunity. They suddenly just explode and maybe I porter is that guy may be playing without the ball in his hands. All these years is kind of stunted his ability to actually be effective with the ball in his hands. So it it's hard to say My view to use your because, like sometimes right, are you like it? search box is exploding in orlando right. So is it because you played with westbrook broken durant. So it is porter success because in some ways he's playing with wall and meal or is it stunted in it'd be even better if he wasn't playing with wall and beyond I'm just now. I dunno. Yet I dunno it's. It's tough! It's a tough issue, I think, for teams, but for guys like that, if, if there are cost effective risk, it's definitely a risk worth
taking for guys like that night, let's get to or quick its last thing at the pied cast today, Kevin oconnor mark Hubert, says the man's won't tank implying This year's draft is not worth it, maybe not worth tanking. We talked last week on our tuesday podcast, and you said this draft. Is worth tanking. For so where are we address cuban just wrong? I think I think his comments might have been admiringly. waste away. I read it he was kind of saying bad, it's not worth right now, I think because it's not a guy aware in all. I think we, like you, talked about there's not that lebron James, where you're you're in a bee want to tank for that guy, it's not that prize yet and- and I think there's lot of talent and draft where you can get a great, There would be eighth pick potentially, so I may I that's what he sang, but possibly back could be
perspective where you know necessary to try to get a shot at a great player, but at the same time, did say earlier in the week that maybe game. Seventy or seventy five. They look at the situation and consider taking in and that's kind of the thing with this year is theirs a lot of super horrible t right. So I think I think, if they did monitor, if they don't necessarily have to start now. They don't. They don't have to tank to get ten wins. They can tank and aim for twenty wins and still get a top shot at getting the top pick in a draft I don't know if that's what you saying, but I would think that might be of the other part, what he saying behind. You don't have the tank in this draft, but I think they should take at some point because regardless of the amount of town and the draft, you still want to have one of the topics that you you get your choice of a guy Kevin famously years ago there was a trade that was possibly going to go down
between the warriors and the timber wolves and people thought that at the time the warriors were goofy for not getting. Rid of clay, thomson and trading in for cabin luck, Kevin love is have maybe best year is grooves everything. Twenty two and eleven on an awesome team shooting forty five percent from the field. Forty three percent from three eighty- seven percent, from the line, if Cleveland called golden state today and sir four thompson straight up who says? No. I think I think both teams will be happy with what they have analogue either team. Let's say I would say: is that, because your I can learn, the creator of gum cleveland, maybe they figured out, I think how perfectly integrated him and the big reason for that. My opinion at least, is the bridge I'm taking a little bit less of scoring role and a much bigger for
irritating role on the team and that's really, I think, empowered kevin love to take the extra three shots, a game or whatever it is he's taking compared to last the last two seasons and man he's just been unbelievable, superficial, he's doing all the things you bear minnesota menu, is doing a better where scrap in the league, where I'm getting a franchise you're getting a franchise, but one of you get it will end. Ah, you can either have love or klay thompson and we're starting at restarting the team next year. my I'd. I think I'd lean towards clay, that's close by I just think clays rousillon start born ridiculous, incredible shooter that's right now is shooting away like thirty six percent from three, but who cares of the small sample size? He really is a deadly forty, two
and shooter from three who can knock down shots at any time and get hot and the and he's a great defender. On top of that, I'd lean towards clay. How about you, chris, I really like the double digit. Rebounds too, I mean I'd. You know I think right now that it is more a problem. more scarce to get a guy like clay, you look around lee therein, the bunch agree shooting guard. You know this is your right if it were wrecked not the best shooting guard right. Clearly, given there's one degree wings. If you wanna like their wings on cause, that's all brown and co. Why and on an hour but verges an end there s a lot of it guards are guys like really score like that used to be the shooting guards right that were scoring. So, it's like Damien, willard and step curry in russia, westbrook overdue talkin. Talking like two gourds, like obviously James harden potatoes.
Now what pray in point guard I mean, I don't know, I guess I think, maybe thompson is a little more scope. slash harder to match up with. If I'm starting a pain, any any is better defender right. Parliament, two way player. Then love is, but I am higher on love than a lot of people. I love him. I love love. I mean it's hard not to love the things she does he's a great player is he's a former superstar. He still is a superstar. He just doesn't get the same amount of, I guess accolades for because the numbers aren't as significant. But man like look. If you are james, while others you can go wrong with either those guys and it's all a matter of as you were kind of saying, depends on how you want to build your team and how you want to around one. Those guys are in that class that, like they're like italy, if there are the best tee, if there are the best guy, on your team. You can still be shitty right there,
as do I say this seriously, I mean we've seen it right. Love love will put up crazy numbers. His team sought. I think clay, could be one of those guys too. He could be your best player and be on a bad team. They're still does the very select view of guys like it's hard to envision. a broad and co wifi and Chris Paul etc, like being I'm talking like a really bad teams, so I do think that both of those god they're not at the law more bed, their sheer star power could git you at least made. like thirty wins like they could be honoured, bad deem so they're, not at that level necessary anodyne. Neither of them are, but I did to aid the debate. I think it certainly a debate like if somebody told me they would if they like their flag in the ground for love over thompson, I wouldn't find him over. I wouldn't think they're stupid. I think I think you know this is kind of, but what you're saying
These guys being the best player on their team and still haven't, should be teams. I think that speaks just how amazing lebron James was. The cavaliers on his first stint with them I mean the tea, the talent of those teams on cleveland, the team that went to the files against spurs. They really were it back good of a team outside on the bridge How about that fires game? You he's really there's a go against the warriors death. Terrorism supper yet it was like, was like him and matthew like the like the people, the bates like here. Gotta play richard jefferson, my Jesus. If phasing out appropriate or devers It was the one and also a booby gibson ethical arrangements and airline last will tell you don't care about shoes and, and and and famously happens all the time given, ok Have you ever from owned a jersey,
I have jersey, I used an area foster jersey. tired now Bernie jersey, it's all! Now it's on a real jersey, it's one of those like fake linsey by little white, like thirty bucks, not the two hundred fifty dollar or play nfl store ones we on a jersey chris, not many of them. In my life, not I've never been much of a jersey where I am fast like area and foster. Why airy and foster love, arian fosters game. I love his perspective on life. I just erin fostered real? in many ways was maybe the best back. I mean I fell playing on one of the worst teams and the texans are remind me in some ways and in the early two, thousands corey dillon and the bengals just had some ridiculous ridiculous seasons for the bengals, but he was just barry on a winner losing team, and there was really until he to new england that he was so
I think an irrelevance hostile, texans jersey, yeah, that's true, they're in faster foster fan still, I've got like in jersey, by the way so gonna closet, for yes, I've got MR mayer one, I'm the guy. the buys a money by okay. What's your favorite one, I think I've gotta I've got like an eighty seven. I think it is all star one of those mitchell and ness all star larry birds. I loved the I loved those uniforms and ok, I've got a barry Oklahoma state. I love that one. Oh boy, that's a good one. I've got an earl cable, texas, I've got about I mean was in my favor by far right now is guided the salute the troops as equal elliot. I have not washed look at an eight weeks, true story
I don't think the nfl show I wear, I wear it every sunday. I know well that you guys got a penny. Hardaway jersey there. There you go. Okay, there's the mba, where you are this is really not nba, ran ba related Isaiah Thomas tweeted out that he got a text in any actual expounded on this. He got a text from Allen iverson the answer himself and it said, keep doing you're being I'm watching ripe kevin. If you could get a text from any one saying keep doing your day, and I'm watching or reading or listening whatever it man who do you want to be from. Man, curse ocean, yes, discussion ahead. Signs of use of user bills,
the males. This is hard to say man. It might be because by the way, bill, simmons ain't listening to this okay, let's get that straight. You know I think I think in some ways. you know, I think man. This is hard. Chris, you got me. This is really hard. I think I think in some ways what I would want is someone who's like powerful need to be like a guy like adam silver, to to recognize. You know the good stuff we're doing here at the ringer, not just me, but you know every Here, I think, I think bow be a really cool thing to have Adam silver. The commissioner of the police were right and about say eight, you guys are doing good things theirs. so, no that so you out the text to be from Adam silver. Keep doing your thing, I'm watching Sure. That's my answer within the moment would, with a gun to my head right right now,
Adam sandler there's my answer. I'll get back to you maybe next week with a really good answer. Now I think you re tourism is very good. It's a very good answer. Given that Good for another edition of the NBA show will catch up with the next week. Have thanks brother thanks Chris deal I got. Where do we make? we take a little extra time, give us a rating and review on itunes to combat the hate. Thanks for listening another edition of on thursday
Thanks again devise land to bring in today's podcast late night, tv, just god darker deeds, it's nice and the kid miro of landed their own late night tv show on vice land, the new tv channel from vice weak night. To them m p m no way was celebrity selling their movies, no script, jobs, no ban, just two guys from the bronx giving you they're takes on sports hold your politics, entertainment and others They don't really know anything about watch these. It's a mirror on t v on vice land. Every monday, through thursday, at eleven pm, go to vice land dot com, to find your channel and check out some free episodes. The brand is strong.
Transcript generated on 2022-06-05.