« The Ringer NBA Show

Preseason NBA Power Rankings, Part 2 | Group Chat


Justin, Rob, and Wos continue their preseason rankings and discuss the teams ranked 22-15.

Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre

Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Will that assume they can afford great insurance, but then they discover that state far has surprisingly great rights like a good neighbour. Stay farmers there get to quote today hello group chair. I am just verrier joining big lies, robber, honey, gentlemen. Most people, I think in the nba world, are talking about the clash of one victor weapon yama into Henderson. But I don't know if this pod gas is the place where it was. it's definitely not because I didn't watch a second of it. I haven't even watched a highlight package like you know, you can go on youtube and watch the extended highlights you know a more sophisticated highlight, packaged in your sword centre one minute and thirty clip. I didn't even watch the twelve version of it, but from what I,
You know women, out of a good it's in trees. It seems that backs looked huge nice. I knew it was a big deal, unjust and was watching it would just in was with the degenerates taken and that for the prospect level, basketball, look don't get there. That did you watch molly, I act I caught some clips. You I got. I got the osmosis experience, I can't say I sat down and, whilst I think tat the bottom yeah there's nothing there, really like hammers home, how little you think of yourself when you ve toddling between preceding mba, basketball and the g ignite experience on E s, p two, but I have to say, like it did feel like an expense. Hence I ain't a lot of people on twitter. What knocking can probably attests to that as well? I was half way, as I was doing other work but like both of those guys are really good and- and I typically don't get sucked into the whole high school experience but like they're, going to be a lot of fun.
I said I will say one of the great things about having a reputation as a not draft guy. Is I've had a lot of draft guys in my ear recently being like? No, no, you, you don't understand about victor web and yama, like you, We need to you'd, be negative then the tape on victor women yama by the time the draft comes round, because you something entirely. I think our first look at him. Stateside certainly confirm that, in all, I do want to say about school, highly skilled, highly explosive guy, but once I found out he was like six foot and a half of margaret kind of checked out. I was like six two. I think yeah it's hard to get excited about short guys in the n b, a surprise No because, like he plays with the violence in kind of the the attitude of Anthony Edwards but he's smaller, but somehow faster and more dynamic, We can shoot that backs already and needed this one mover he like he broke like two guys. The durable and somehow finished around weapon yama who, as we mentioned,
like seven, three, seven five, wherever he is he's incredible to night, came For the inevitable conversation words I go, I've been yom is the better player, but scoots like for the real. eggs for, like the allen, iverson types who wanted just be like on top of that, the deep kite exciting guy. What I mean he's six foot, but he has like six. Three energy is aura, ultimately saying they're hot. For me, that is exactly the same. We on this podcast can relate. Certainly do alright. We are back. in the power rankings mode, that's why you are all here are we are going to do part two and it's actually gonna be a long day for your power rankings committee, because we're recording part two and part three back to back. So if you get to part three on friday, which is when it will drop the energy, is maybe a little more fatigue. You know a little bit more winded in, but in some of the teams. That's probably why, by just just to lay out the ground rules, as we did last time, we all ranked every
one to thirty average them. Now I say: obliquely are traded, producer broke the ties and we go through each team, one by one talk about them in general and then talk about one essential question that I have sketched out good in question. Any any preamble, so where we pick up this time, we are at number twenty two and we are starting with your washington wizards, one of the things I love about. This exercise is how quickly I will talk myself into every single team just by doing basic research, on all of them in the wizards were deftly where those team last night, where I'm like, while like the there really deep, this could be a pretty. decent team, and now I should qualify that by good. I think the wizards are probably something two may be like a charlotte last season, but I think it all ultimately circles backdoor essential.
question rob and which is: do you believe in christophe pausing s bearded crystals pressing? As I must say, I do not yet have checked my lately, but evil Christoph is back there. I would like to believe for my own benefit, that You can clear the decks that you can get a fresh start with a change in facial hair like that. I'm just not sure it gets rid of all the baggage in a career like this one, so short version is not especially no. I do not believe in crisps forcing us and that's health related and on top of the fact that even when he plays is a pretty good, though I kind of complicated player, you know it. You never really lives up to the. What what is advertised is not always what he delivers in terms of his defence event. in terms of what you think the spacing is going to do for your team, so I think they're going to be pretty good. You know, I think the wizards are going to be a d is a decent team may be present, really solid stretches, but I can't see I'm talking myself into them, like you are, just as you know, is funny about
how we just went from one banana sue, pausing. Is that the conversation? I was one in cowl and a kale seed talk about it for a little bit with it like. While this kid is the the greatest prospect since Lebron James, an old tree and honest, It reminds me of the charter we used to have around pausing is now we were called merely colonies, guy, a freak, a unit, one. If you will, it reminds me of that conversation and ultimately, pausing is at his ease, combination of both sides and skill. It never change lady, because he's never become the strong enough to live up to it right and is a thing about him on. Like what he was being asked to do in dallas, is way less than what it would take to make the wizard Good said right: it was like yo. Can you, like data dude, It is up to you at the basket whose six with four and your seven,
you gave us, can you be strong enough to win, stand. The resistance of a stout six with regard to the answer is no How can you reliably be our last line of defense rim protector, which is the kind of things that he flashed in new york and at times he had like incredible. If you look at his advanced stats, a lot of a lot of his rim, protection stats, work incredible back in those days in the answer was no one saw he was asked, no way less in dallas, then he would be asked to do potentially here with the wizard to make the matter, and he couldn't do it out of the world. We think that he's gonna be able to raise the level of the wizards when nobody doubts your destiny in too, you know be some kind of offered so far be the kind of guy. draws doubled schemes and then is able to dissect and exploit them. These are things that you ask the place to do at his position,
he was about to do that. the things that he was as do, we couldn't saw no law. They never know. I don't get excited about was in its Yes, this really eyes centre of gravity that basically starts at his nipples, so he's easy to move around and you can exploit these size in the way that you supposed to get excited about and he's never proven to be somebody who can live up to seven foot. You no sense with too large a long way spend guy defensively. You know he always had this movement. Will you let all maybe he's got enough lateral movement to this What's a bull got now he gets pushed him out. He's not eligible. Doesn't protect the rim pieces of glorified shooter at this? Will I guess devils advocate would be his bill better partner for him in a way that LUCA was in lukas, obviously better, but the result
Are we some sort of chemistry thing that was never right and I won? If you were even tell pausing is he's going to be like featured more even if he isn't going to be. Does that get him to buy in and do some of the things you actually need from it? I think that part is actually port and the like in a way, was asking katy to do less, even though he probably should be doing less. I think it put him like a weird mental had space where he'd never really felt comfortable with what he was doing in dallas, and so they tried liked. What's throw em some token post ups legless, try when dull, Jim, in terms of giving these kinds of possessions, maybe there is some to the idea of him stretching outside of that box. A little but had been able to do a little more, at least in terms of keeping him happy, if not altogether efficient it star managing more than
it's star, like placing him in the correct positions in the office also employ. Doesn't he have delight like try and do the things that he he's very good at doing maybe nice, why the problem to it without language, just in his slick, star management, with chris outsourcing, whereas it was generally proven to play like a star and a really long time I might have to earn some of that, but with the wizards by default that she is a very important part of this team open and shut case. Like date, they have made their bed with. It the time management, as if these diana rossiskaya it seems, or he's like you know, to bring it a little bit more current, like he's justin timberlake, an insane guy, and even I know, I'm dating myself with both references but like no what is more. My men last time existing charles darwin is with the brains. Lads made me.
The added value that even adjacent your last third banana. Unfortunately, see my think he might be a j c type, because if you look at the restful, roster edges stockpiled with above average like this, is it quality team? Which is why I think I have some modicum of optimism it's just a lot of competence up and down this roster. I just I don't know if it's enough to break in past like what the tenth or the ninth place but like, and I guess the other question we should talk about- is kept he has to anchor the defence, because I dont know where you're getting hippy, especially on this at this very soon I guess tile kuchma, rehabilitated equality de ventnor average defender is the second best offenders the starting line up just One guy do hard things on offence and a bunch of guys who can create a mighty good, such in that way with the arm,
I have a five foot pole because he's obviously got a high on the internet that you would, as he really really yeah yeah yeah his his native country minted. Like obsessed, I was intimately familiar with every international players. Hiv he's just people from their hometown, every year was a guy who can create shots were himself. Why efficiently right he's kind of proven that to be easily still, I can check creation for himself. Nobody else, and then you look up and down his roster who's, a guy that can draw to who's the guy with the lead, playmaking who's, a god, and I don't see it Chris caps with us it'd, be that guy, maybe he's you know, learn how to be able to create one or one for himself. If not anybody else, that's never been the case in the past. in his career. So I don't know how this team is supposed to be good and yak sign, yeah, dignan,
action is, do we believe in beal as a top level, all m b, a caliber guy, because, despite the fact that the wizards have treated him like that for now three four years and of paying him like he is that player and forward when he's been injured and when he's been Will they get his points, have all come just empty collar. his style, and so do we think like he can you and be a first year, rock Its harden, where he's just driving everything and are going to me a low level play off seed that that would be a probably this union do, we think feels like. I know it. I think you're a great season for bradley bill. is like third team, all nba consideration, may maybe he gets now if the wizard just have an unbelievable season, but for those kind the teams for those teams to make the playoffs? If you like, on thirteen guy on it, the defence has to be really good, usually, and that's where the wizards like, maybe they could be found
I think they'll certainly be better than one of the worst defenses in the league, which is what they were last season just by virtue of you know like beal. I think just needs to up the after level in that regard, he was really mailing it in, but like coups mrs solid defender kay He can at least be a solid defender. If not someone who's going to bail you out and save you, and you would hope that if you look up and down the bench in terms of the young guys like I think of the is actually a pretty by pretty competent on that in but you want to see more from the very much more and more as the physical tools you guys were absolutely will they have this weird thing where it's almost like the low rent version of the warriors where they have their veteran starting line up and then they just have a bunch of recent first round picks to come off the bed. fetch murray of audio crisper who's out forty six week, thou with an ankles brandy that came out today, report reside recordings. Davis. Another high first round pick But the problem is the starting line up is like average in I dont think any of us are sold on any of them
First, do any of these guys was jump out to you are you're hot summer guy? I was. rookie year cause he came in even at that age, with nb a size right off the bat. So I thought maybe he could develop a game where he could take advantage of his physical gifts and with some you know, level of a combination of skill and physicality he's just never proven that, The jump shot is still leaves me watching. Definitely you don't look at his boy handling as some kind of strength. so he's never developed the things that a white guy needs in order to exploit this was physical gives. So, while I used to be a large war guys hard to justify that enthusiasm any more and that through the problem here they've brought in some pretty solid veteran players. You know the monte morris is in the will barton's to have to fill out that starting line up those are spots that are theoretically up for grabs,
look if any of these young guys was really popping that job would be theirs. But here's where we are you know it's hot you more and not like, not are, frankly, not being on the floor enough. yet to really live up to what he could be and some that was injury for him. Some of that was disclose personal reasons that it sound like were: were mental health related for him, so whenever he was going through, I hope he is able to get back from that in an play, really successful bass, while for a long time, but obviously really flawed player. for for a guy who's like theoretically, a shooter is going to have to be better than average when he comes back from injury. If he's going to stick, there just not like a lot of selling points here in terms of oh, what we're really buddy to hand over to the next to the post, bradley beale air of the wizards or or the transitional air of the wizards national generation. Yet there it's not great. You know it's not great. Now, while I guess the ones
they have going for them is their direct competition. Is the next team on our less than some of the teams were and talk about what that much farther ahead of the wizards if they are further ahead to begin with, and that is a first and foremost the number twenty one team on our list. Was these new york knickerbockers I think we got a lot of different ways with this one. The question I have written down seems to be the big picture question for them, which is it seems like They're gonna do anything if they're trade for a star. If they're going better this season, if they're gonna be better in the long term, a lot of it ultimately boils down to our j bear cannot bear it be. A number one. If he's not what it is he in his like this league let alone on this team question is especially it based on what he's been talking about at media day. Off season by what is focusing on driving to the river. surely shooting as much sounds like you, lloyd, overlap, even more, which really is randal but
did last season in already seemed like these guys were to similar, surely coexist? Well, so I wonder wise, can synergy bear reaches for potential playing with Julius randall I mean I think he can smell. Julius randal has to play every single orgy buried minute available on the floor. I think the deck was is, is, is less a joyous randal question and a mixed hierarchy question if they're gonna be dedicated, Should this prove track approach of the region We now have a chance to develop young guys and retain tom. They were doll, who is going to play all gaza at the expense of player development at every turn, because he wants to grind out wins against charlotte, wanted
arm in service of achieving a tendency that to me is a bigger problem are tickets combination of having ran dog having sibs his approach to all roster, building and roster development, and which is better said, that's a bigger hindrance to me than just one individual guy who had has to occupy a lot of space on the court that randall was to have. I think his coach, the guy in charge of his fate, is going to take an approach that is sub optimal to a team that is not destined for competitive, mba basketball right as far as the big dogs are concerned, this is a team that is going to scratch and claw for the in
and they're going to do that at the expense of trying to do these guys put their feet to the fire, the young guys and seeing what they got and mixing and matching and trying different kind of combinations with the young people that that's what's going into it, not julius randle by himself. now. Yet it really is about randal being symptomatic of that and symptomatic of the larger tom Timid in games, but at what cost dilemma, and in some of that is development summit at his guys. are just like not getting quite much room to do their thing on the court. Sometimes there's aka factors they go into that. Unfortunately they have made. box into this corner, I don't wanna be in, which is the unjust, increasingly becoming an obi top and guy I'm becoming The crazy person with a sign outside amnesty like begging, you to play obi top and and this not either because only top in his great, because we have no evidence to suggest that he is in power. some randal or centre. I think I think, will ideally either but tom
but it has been very clear. He does not want to play him in randal together, no matter what you were me, or literally, anyone on the planet will tell him about the weather that could, I might even say it would work. I would like to see if it could over a long enough time line, but yet really I don't overstate how good topic is because, he's more interesting than he is demonstrably good. I just like the idea of if we're conceptualizing what the knicks could be. The long term core of a guy, like top in a gallop, bear it a gallop. Brunson, there's room there for everyone to maneuver in a way that feels healthy, whereas Julius randal. For for all of it, what he has done for the next four, every thing he's produces a player like he's a guy who gets you to a certain point, and after that point he starts to cannibalize a little bit, your other best players in what they do yeah, I think we're all kind of saying the same thing in describing it two different different factors here. I just don't see them changing how approaching everything, especially with the there, but also like the institution, seems to be all in
This in when you remove randall you're gonna lose games, and when you have him there, you're, probably creating redundancy now with bearable with brunson, and so I guess This is where we are where we just get a ton of Isaiah harkin's t it's at its heart using season right now and every sees it is hard to Stacy suggested, and so I don't know it's weird. I think a lot of tv talk about have these this wealth of veterans. there are counting on to get by now, while hoping to bring our along the young guys. But into a situation where the next hour now, where you're, just not feeding the young, guys the opportune like what is a manual quickly. Like is came, reddish is came here, so we cannot miss deem grimes is green growth, there's a guy who, like people, just love this off season who danny Ainge just thinks is the next jj Redick. So I'm just like what going on at all times, did you see that you're on mixed twitter went to strolled everybody by said yeah means mean. As you know, it was whatever close composition, but
something in evidence in the forties soon saw me saying its cause, but all dude Will we know everything we need to know about our red and who we didn't say: is untouchable, donovan mitchell deal. met in men macbook even with the slight, an old veteran worry this lightened? Just why these life in its chance, then I'm cool, since it is said that I am the eleventh see the up, the nearest aren't in a place as a franchise in terms of lack of talent basin roster, where they need to be investing in as well at the guys who we know exactly who they are because you have been asked and answered. Is this an mba love? starting shooting guard Evan Fournier, then look that way. You know. I think think we're pretty clear on that front. I would love to see any alternative they could explore, rather than be the ten seed, and yet I have the biggest upsides dare roses and pencils him to the starting line,
somehow like when he showed up to media day with his shirt off me like I took tubes challenge. Personally, I got really chiseled and drop drop, like five pounds? I guess I got shit. This guy closing games like tomorrow, I mean we're, not opener. Yet thanks to get its gravely. I mean anything else don't touch was, it seems, like we ve, been saying the same thing for two years now, but let it get let the kids play. Let them have fun. You know hold them accountable, of course, I if, if a young guy is out there and he's being an abject disaster, I'm not saying there shouldn't be accountability tied to minutes. Of course, this should be- and I think you know the best coaches told that line between giving guys minutes and not No, basically, just all this is your inheritance type of thing,
I know why does coaches figure out the best carrot and stick with this minute stuff in developing stock is filled, my kids just the opposite of its life, this short least with gods who don't know how to do it. They can't do it yet they have to learn and the only way to learn is with minutes. You know I want to see it it you as a knicks fan. Would you prefer to let all the young guys play in play through their mistakes and have fun, but lose. Would you rather than what you're going to get? Yes yeah? I think most people would say. Yes, like there's some fun players on here like I just want to see a manual quickly play twenty minutes and just run around and shoot threes, and do some shit like it too much to ask for especially like. What's the alternative you know like
just throw mitchell robinson out there, I don't care. How many fallacy has let him fell out of every game. I really don't hair moving on number twenty, two that probably will literally just throw their young guys out there and watch them do some shit. The sacramento o kings at is a tough one bit because I think we can go a lot of ways with this. The starting line up makes sense, unlike it did in years, past Is there a clear vision, there's a lot of shooting on this team. There's a lot of guys you can get out in transition. My big question for you rob is: can a team just straight up pun room protection and still be good in the nba, because right now, democracy bonus is pencil, then as the starting center. I think that's probably best approach to put him there and just like run in engine like rack up as many points as possible. On the other hand, like I don't know who their stopping
adult yeah, I don't think their defense is going to be pretty good, almost no matter what they do at this point, which I think is okay, like if they do have enough offensive firepower. Finally, to let their best players play to have the spacing around them like that part of it is going to make sense. The question is like: how much are they going to, a budget verses lean into being, and often first team, because seen in the precision they're starting case, your pa- led forward instead of Keegan Murray, which I think is a perfectly fine thing to do right. It's like it's kind of a vague gesture at this question that you're asking about their defense in the rim. Protection like his ok paul is not really a rim protector, but he's a solid defender. He moves well for a big I think. Most importantly, he takes on like a wide variety of assignments that you don't want some bonus handling. So he gives you some options between him and harrison. Barnes like having them do some things, but but again too, as to what end you know like, are you going to be the the twenty first ranked defense instead of the twenty fourth ranked hence, and how much is that really get him of the needle for you verses like every index?
and we ve gone from Keegan Murray so far has been really positive in terms of how he navigates the floor terms of what is mechanic so like how much of an impact he could make from day, one that looks like a really fascinating, an interesting gnp, that I want to get on the floor as much as I possibly can and maybe ultimately does. But I I think ultimately, timidly, we're gonna move in a place with this team, where they are often first second and third fuck it frankly, with everything else. Yeah if you going to hover around twenty second in the league on defense and we're not even so obviously being like one of the best teams in the league is out of the question, but can they be an eighth seed type of team? I think they can, but they have like they have to be incredible at all, since they have to be firmly in the top seven eight type of situation on offense, and you know that that would basically have to come from the era.
fox actually becoming elite at the point of attack right after he's had his moments in the past, where I'm just like. Oh my god, nobody can stay in front of this kid and he can draw he can draw too, but with his paint attacks and kick out, and you know, create opportunities for shooters he's slow it's never been sort of of, and then you know he's had had breakdowns in crumbs time in the past to re were sacramentos office. Just didn't love, I would need it look! The answer just in is no use I have a good defence which promises you senator that's impossible. We ve seen it for six years. I've along its been that it will be the case why I think they create some nice or fence with the pieces they got. I'm a big murray fan. Definitely a big davy mitchell's. as for core fits alarm, obviously ya know I'm her to have to die. So I love
How often have we always t right believe what they had? The peace is to be a really good offsets. It see, you knows basically away stripped down version or lesser version of seven seconds. A lesson Yes or more is essential, but they did by having number one oceans and about lee average efficiency or different. Visiting army that right? Well, it's gonna, be a lesser version, is not going to get in the western conference finals. Git, you know regulatory check away from the final side, the big, but I think they could be a good, really tough team by being one of the best offices in a week submerged is just the matrix revolutions. Then I don't hate that. Can I hate it.
why was it just? I don't how you feel about this, but after even the limited time we saw fox and sir together, I feel pretty good about their pairing re like that. Yet Does it get fits it just kind of about everything else, and I think that starts with is this? Is this enough shooting to git you offensively where you need to go so yeah? I think, having the fox abode, picking role as the heart of Europe often makes sense, and they did again surround them was shooting so like there is a logic to all their moves. Barnes heard her murray last season in college, my jew and weak monk all shot thirty nine percent or more from three last season. They have this stuff to make what they want work, which is like a light years ahead of us. The thing with the kings over the past fifteen years. Maybe I guess the question is: are they counting too much on a top seven that we are saying has
committed ceiling to begin with, because jot holland- you had this in his recent right up about the kings, barely just filled their bench with a bunch of guys that might brown new, including, like kent, bays, bore and go as from the nigerian team, which he coach, which is why caveat powers on this theme is hurt the systematic yeah this this team is good, but there are most hop, have in the way like that, the twenty twenty lakers were her. We're saying that their ceiling is that twenty twenty two twenty three lakers yeah if the ceiling is pretty damn low yeah. If that's, what you're asking it's a low ceiling, because if all things shake out the best, their best two players in the era of fox
The modest boys like nobody's idea of world leaders hardly get. Is the bonuses in all star sure what like that? Does it have to best players? Nobody thinks the ceiling on those two guys in open could take a team is very far so you know that that is what it is, but at the same time, it's better than everything If we want it to be going to watch, it is, and if anybody is watching the kings, I think that's that's a win for them I think, even when it is a little bit more stodgy offensively like it. If I just can't get quite enough shooting out there, sometimes watching those two guys trot a problem solve, it is going to be interesting there's a lot of resources there between foxes, burst and like the elbow stuff as a bonus like there's, there's mechanics there that can work. I just don't What that means for again, our guy forecourt fits alarm, deviant mitchell like how do you play him with those two guys in early? I d. I worry about stuff like that.
With him like he might be locked in a position where he's only on the floor when dear and foxes off of it, just because I'm not sure you can afford to not have shooting It was two wing spots when the two best players are out there yeah. I just assume he's going to kind of fall off, which is sad to say, cause in a certain way. They did kind of prioritize him over Halliburton, which I never really totally got. But here's what we have you know they just go with what they have. in there. Making sense of it was just be proud of them. For that are we offer them? their pants on one leg at a time, they're getting out the door they're going to work at it and it just we're happy for them, and I'm number nineteen the portland trailblazers. I tried to switch this up because I think much like last year too, I probably ask what about all these teams? How can they put together a competent defence writing for the trailblazer The answer is like you can see a pathway to it, which is which is pretty interesting. They obviously completely region and everything around dame this year. My question for you
eyes and wiser. To start with, you are the trailblazers better than the blazers team that wins the west final. A couple years ago. Twenty eating twenty nineteen in somebody read you the lineup secrecy in twenty eighteen nineteen, you had dame siege the column mo heartless offer camino uses get on the bench canter now and his freedom, Seth, curry, rodney hood right. Pretty decent team got to the west finals in large part, because there were some injuries in the west was a little weaker outside of the warriors twenty twenty two twenty three team dame when he simons Josh, har Jeremy, grant use. If turkish gary pay in the second she'd and sharp the rookie inez you're a little which are those seems you like more was. I like this seem more because they have an ability to play. Nigger on the wings than they ever had in the day in arab, and, I think
You know everything. Simons is a reasonable enough facsimile. What a siege aim a column was able to give the trailblazers rights just offensively. They had more size on them the new ever had in a dame error. However, you know a deal at daylight. Josh hard every silence be a next today in there gonna get a lot of minutes. You still have a lot of these same problems that you had with the day in fiji aerosol. I think they needed to do more to put sigh. Next day when they have bought yeah like the potentially teamwork. You know the problem
is the league is way better, like the great teams like it's just a deeper crop of extremely talented teams than was the case back then, and so like yeah. I think their potential to be like you know way. More stout on defense is much higher, but the teams I got a beta just so much better than back. Then he had just kind of like reading. The tea leaves coming out of camp and preseason for them. I do think they're, probably going to end up starting someone bigger at the three I think hart is gonna end up playing a lot of these minutes ray like getting to the ends of games. Dame simons and heart are just your three best perimeter guys, but justice winslow might be starting monsieur. Little might be starting, and I think both of those guys were useful and ba players to an extent, but I can't pretend that they're worlds better than the
line you have here just enough, though heartless enough for a community there in that vein of limitation right in terms of what they can't do offensively, and so you have to hope that the rest of it is enough, and some that's going to come down to What version of Jeremy grant are the blazers going to ultimately get like they getting? You dont want the full detroit experience. I don't think that's healthy for anybody. I don't think you want the fully limited nuggets. Experiences was, and is there a grey area here in which he can be a pretty actualized offensive player in a way that, obviously, the african leaders of the world just could not do. We believe that player, though, like I think they are putting a lot of stock into grant being a capable with not number two option than certainly a high level number three like do you think that's enough
two like get by because they probably won't have the fire power, maybe of the past blazers teams, but I think they are hoping to be a middle of a more balanced looking defensively. He can be that rail again be really actively switches defensive. I think all fancifully, maybe you're hoping for, like seventeen point, a game. Sixteen seventeen point, from him on reasonably efficient shooting that seems with his grasp. In this context, I think yan any again. You know go payton in the second grant like these guys are the type of high level defensive play is that they never had in the dame errand. I just never appeared him with those type of defensive, just talents, and so you know I'd love to see I place out on the floor, but it's it's hard to get too excited about the place. Is god? want me to be on this, but I think it is fitting that they ended up next to the kings, because,
I had a really hard time, threading, that needle- and I think we all had these two teams within basically to spots of each other and our rankings. We're gonna, be I them in relation to another all year, as they can a jockey for a spot in this play and race. They just seemed destined to cannot be in the same spaces. Now these teams were neck and neck. I think up and all our next seem number eighteen, the chicago bulls like this is all a cheer unto itself. It feels like- and I think it would be dictated injuries, which probably is as good as a secondary as any to get to the chicago bulls at eighteen. Here's. My question are the bulls. The twenty twenty two twenty twenty three stealth taking candidate in so I looked up last year, I correctly predicted the pesos as a team. That was probably teetering had encountered a lotta different injuries and then all of a sudden everything kind of fell apart. They decided
embrace their destiny bottom now make the trade for halbert, etc, etc, What did you incorrectly predict? If that's what you correctly predicted? What what's on the other? side of the ledger. Out about that. I value that it wasn't a history. This wolves were mediocre, but here's what I'm thinking, because vusi bitch in a contract year really bad last year, bolden will figure out his his fate. Soon Marta rose and thirty three zach levine there, an a and a pretty big contract, maybe doesn't have the same motivation to be playing fur is his off season fate is much adding. The big thing is that long, those he seems to be swiss cheese at this point is going in for a second surgery in what was a month. They don't really know when he'll be back as everybody knows at this point with the bulls ones, crews are really beheld together that events in the good times early last season, and so I don't
rob light. What did the boys have here and do you think that I even think it's dark as time mine? I think it's like a but very possible time line of this team could ultimately go the opposite way, just completely bar mouth disease and I'm really torn because, if theory, I am a supporter of the idea that lake just being a pretty good team for long enough, is a decent model like. I actually think virtues did at model of being a good good play off team over a long enough term. The problem with the bulls in Kind of formulation is, you know they finally made the playoffs. They miss the pre as for years? That's not nothing, but ideally, you're gonna be in that zone when you're your clearly not contending, but also your way too good to be raising the jazz and interspersed the bottom? As is you like some reason for hope of a breakthrough, and the only real and I could possibly see here- is tat Williams.
I'm not sure I really think pat Williams is that guy and it's such an eye of the beholder thing with him. I would understand if someone is super high on him as as a potential star down the line, but I don't think this is a crazy question to think that if he, I'm not sure it'll happen But maybe it should like, maybe they should be. One of these schemes is thinking about. We kind of with this final looks like without long. So, if we're not optimistic about his chances of getting back fully healthy and mobile long term, we have to start at least thinking about these other possibilities. Dewey, I love it comes to the dark side rob this is a great here. Is it's not he's dead. Logic is gonna, be out again because it is me situation. It's dead. You know erosion He had heard any second right leg. The rosy goes down it's data, they're not going to bank gonna, be bad people saying goodbye, it was. It was had just a chequered injury history,
She goes down, which is not gonna, be good so I don't even think that they're going to have to tank, I think the circumstances of their roster that isn't a completely good one. Is it like top heavy as far as the talent right, like we're not talking about the mavericks right, where their best guy, when he's right is the best player in the m b a they don't have that on his team. So if even the smallest things go wrong for them. This is going to naturally go into a tailspin they're, not even gonna, have to consciously be like yo patrick warriors were going to run the offense through you. for majority hearings gains because we're trying to get school up in here, I knew I think I think the year. I think rose in part of that is where it gets damning, because it's not just possible that he never plays that. Well again, I would say is likely He never place that well, Adela got it. That could be the best we ever see of democracy, bulls, uniform and it wasn't even close to being good enough. Yet
and that's why it's commendable to go for it to do try to be the best version of yourself, which is what the bulls did. First, swinging the trade for reservation than making the sign in trade de murderers and which, like that arose, just one year. If that's all they get firm is still one of the best transactions in recent history like that. Was incredibly worthy dig it out. Yet nobody saw them coming. I just. I think this is the problem you get it to eventually, when you build a top heavy team with three guys are two guys or clear, cut off be a style top of the league sort of guys. You need a levine or the rosen boost of itch to carry you, because this team isn't really deep. It wasn't last year when they are pretending that bradley was inadequate, backup centre, like they have more there like dirt. easier like dragic and drummond crusoe still here then see me and like all these guys right, but they really need resolving to play in all star? He shot thirty one point four percent from three last year the roses:
expecting a fall off. Levine, maybe takes a mini jump, takes the reins and is bear this year, but like starting from a very low plays of expectations, and I don't know like why do you see these guys exceeding our expectations individually, vukovich in particular, I have no idea idea. We would expect expect lucifer's to be anything more than everything that he's been even at his desk. Only the best version of bullshit that makes this team somehow like knocking on the door of championship could and she- and I think we really would see. That is one of you right where you become by this we permit score, and you know it gives you just enough play making to supplement The more the roses they all the post office has some continuity. They moved the ball enough. They have to get the type of guys who can exploit mismatches enough arm in an air. You know this really good offices thing and they ve peace.
It together on defence on it would have become from levine. In my opinion, you know the max cancer guys the forty million dollar guy. He would have to raise his level to to watch this thing turn into something else, butch a bitch. I mean what are we talking about? You know as a bonus table, all star he's a jamal mcclure cycle, we're not going to give it made it all started work on foods, mama glory or taken shots at tony bradley. What are we doing yet that good and I got to say that the pistons future, Second look and bright. My friends, I'm just saying like this is what I have to leave without about that. This is: u turn it should have forced his way. We're not reason into here on this max the overarching like shit they bought amount? Is this already taken candy understand this? Is you try to
and you are right when you re empirically wrong about what happened, which, as he resigned with the chicago bulls, I'm sorry I would say that I'll be right. Eventually, you know from a long term plan I never seventeen. The toronto raptors. A team that I I think I am high on. I think a lot of you guys are as well. I think my question for them will actually just talk about them: the sea and where do we see them rob just as currently constitute an immediate end to the future, as is the team that could break into the top for, and the east potentially is solid top six? Or is this more like a plan d ye? I dont see them is breaking in debt. Four necessarily, but once you get beyond that point on covers mystic about them is almost any of those like other candidates, and some of that is like just the collective iq. It's the length as yes, let us isms the skill level. These have a lot went on in ways that the chicago bulls of the word do not, and so, if we want to talk tears, this might be a whole other. Today,
on the other to your right here coming up from the rapporteur because they can t do things that some of these other, like playing caliber teams, cannot and may be injured, these will render them into that that plane conversation, but I think the flat better than that yeah thing. Unlike the balls, the rafters will absolutely have to leave you in their defence, like we know that a vote there right now, which is something we can say about any other. Jean debutante, proud, dainty carry the blazers too. We often sweating like is possible. We ve seen in due time as would like, we know the going to bring in a lead level deviance to every single game this year and that you know here on our she says: could they take a step back? Is the plan one the debts I've been thinking that every single year,
a single sees a downward from it. So I go. Maybe if things don't go right, like they'll porn on built on a flowery, will get rid of sea outcome. They'll get mark the saw lotta here they'll, figure out what to do with oceana. No big deal. You know. Sort of bottom out would become this type of scene that just chases lottery balls and you know, stockpile draft picks in court. You know massage to call himself a genius like that people in ok city utah, but they just refuse to do it right so, like I have no other choice but to think they're going to be compensated. It's all they ever do like there's, no like there's, no there's no version of them doing anything else yeah. I guess my question long term has more to do with the way the contracts are set up. It seems like they are going to reach an inflection point, whether they want to or not because fred, vanvleet and
Gary Trent Jr, have player options to go into free agency next offseason seok m, twenty twenty four off season can be a free agent, oh gee, as a player option to be a twenty twenty four free agent, so there are a lot of those guys that they ve been bringing up steadily, that they ve had in abundance. To turn to when a lowering of trade when the choir leaves they're gonna have their the op. And to leave or not, and so it's the question is: do you want to get ahead of that? You want to reset the timeline around Scottie barnes, because if you do want to keep all them, it's going to be very costly and I'm not sure they might be paying for this type of team that much money, but I could see it the other way. I guess this is like a perfectly adequate team would still a lot of upside like what is jago. My twenty eight like these guys are all still very much in their primes. If this works like why not keep going so I'm mixed on that, but I think it's fair to ask the question As the questioner upside talking about, besides scotty barnes Oji gets
the fair share, precious jewel. I'm not even joking. I to pressures that Europe can be good outcome, keeps getting better so now every year. Even though is an older ventnor, I I just think you're like yes, Scottie Barnes is definitely going to prove himself to be much better than he showed his rookie year. Of course, that goes without saying like of, of course, but I just think I'm not saying the best of fred vanvleet is behind him. I think played to the level that he's going to play. You know we're not going to see him a materially better than flee or garage shed, or you know, pascal siakam, in my opinion, so I'm like, I think we see what we're gonna see out of those guys- and you wonder, is you know- is scotty barnes gonna just a second You know John moran year too levels of round. All the carpet said, surrounded by think that's would rapids fades. The
I believe that yeah yeah skype. Barnes is untouchable about that. I don't think any of us are, but I will I would love to police that you I would love to table even that world. I think that's what we're going to say if you those more creation in your to oblige a believe it having created the ones that we talk about aids, as you like, gonna beat it cycle. Gmo it would surely be well guy who knew she's living getting to the wine and finish shipping is evil, develop some type of needed ranger? What are we talking about? Job creation was because this is what I ask people like what kind of shock neither was sky. He ain't gonna, be step back threes and coming off a pick and rolls against drop. Defenses can splashing it over the top or guys it's going to be because he's some type of I live in a
guy. Isn't it? How did the trolls freewill get? This conversation is good manners was to work for them became a perennial all star. By being somebody who lived in the painted area, I do think scotty shown some of that of the rapporteur, me into league. Was this guy can't shoot yet period, and he it's a mid range each is alive ability to improvise to get into that? Those like weird floaters and runners like he. He got buckets in ways that he should not have been able to do given his given what what we were told to believe of his game, and I think what makes these big wing guys so captivating is if he does hit that next level as a mid range guy? As someone who can crazy, I'm shot the dribble, that's just the most important, kill, set from the most important type, a player you can find, and so that's why I would be looked into give any of the sub, because there's a lot of like collective iq theirs,
lot of energy with this team there's lot versatility with this team. I'm not quite sure myself that scotty Barnes is that guy, but on the fifteen to twenty percent chance that he is, I want. I need to find out because it could completely change. My name is, and I'm just ball parking where it is. Here's the the the recent examples of guys who came into the league with like a sort of symbol, a profile skill set wise and developed into elite. working time and create a kind of guys, shimmy butler, coordinated fashion. Oh george, already, could shoot it could do all what's to stop when he came. so the nba hidden developments at some lead shooter from any right like he could shoot already. This guy has not been some one was a shoot her when he came in the nba, as will be called in. I think Jimmy butlers pretty attainable
thou. Likewise, obviously, on another level but like if Scotty was innocent, blood loses Hannibal. Jimmy are still hit shoe in year, like twelve I'm the a row when discussing the teams of the final and funds. He was the he was. The options have court office of a team that scored against italy differences defenses, you still covered a western covers, say that seems not very attainable to both are definitely has some like bad ass stuff. That is, I don't think anybody has and I'm not owing him to that standard, but I think just like, regular season, jimmy butler, I think that is kind of where you are as a ceiling for barnes. I don't think that's out of this world quite may be. Quite just a rabbi. Definitely by an endless did that all scotty was better
why, at this age, like guys right, doesn't work on leonard hawaiian leonard. Is this single crazies play development story that we might have ever seen browser, like he's any, become unstoppable in mid range? Does it this shot their people? body agrees is bad to take these big the best joining it week. What are we going here like. Why is not happen? He's not gonna become join him in the literature, the same could say about some crazy thing: we're not getting this kid by saying he's not going to become hawaii jordan in the mid range, and I just think he would have to become somebody who lived at the free throw line. The way jimmy does when he's got it rolling at his best and lives on in the paint like actually able to finish close to the basket. You know at an elite rate
where is paid shot efficiency. So you know that there is a lot to ask of the young man, but I think there are more so as stories than that, like those are the high end ones. Those are the absolute best case scenarios, but when you starting from rookie of the year, already a very effective player. What if he just has like a jail in brown type church? three in terms of his jumper insurance going from, I can't shoot to now. This is a thing that we at least have to take like taken to account on top of everything else. He does you know they. I think they're. There are like in ingram level, evolutions for handling like oh, this is interesting in it. Really different way, not to say branding of winning when you be be finals, but Scotty barnes with braided ingram level development might yet burns is a better play maker and I'm probably will be in both of those guys that, yes, it cat, like cat, develops the kind of handle, and you know, she's, making
at Brandon. Ingram has okay, we talking about a really scary player. When you combine his, you know his willingness to give up the rock and and again physically branded make them just don't play with physicality scottie barnes. Last years, he was muscling guys beating drew up at the arm at the point of attack. Ok, If you tell me he good he's got It's like when a nigrum I cool, I just man, you know I hate sounding so skeptical with a young guy. Just this shit is hard to to achieve to attain. You know- I don't know, I got you twenty percent, but I think I got you a fifty sure I think we're everyone's. is like it's. In with these visits, the rain- of his outcomes. We don't know that at the high end, but I think it's possible and not unfair, to say that he could be on the level of these guys
joy and not even that far in the future, because he was already pretty good as a rookie, but to get back to the initial prompt here. Is he so good? And you have so much believe in him in as while it was kind of alluding to they, dont have guys who can now start to grow with him. They have guys you're, probably a little bit older than him. Do you try reset things around him. At this point, Robert Ebay, I would be pretty reluctant to push that button. But I think what they have is maybe a little bit too good for that kind of outcome. Unless somebody is really wants out of there and show that that's a whole different kind of interpersonal thing, but just based on game is based on talent, is based on the age curves of these guys. there's nobody in their core whom really worried about, like they can't sister, in where they are for the next three years, you know they're, all kind of in that pocket, more or less like like was as they might not get better Fred Vanvleet might not get any better than this is kind of going to be the player he is, but I'm fine with that version of fred vanvleet and playing out the string with some of these younger guys and seeing
if we can kind of new build up, aroused her a little bit around the edges, and maybe that's enough just weed out everyone who isn't six nine so when friendly watson for aid and see to replace them with another power for no one at the abbot. I agree I dont think is that the type of team that should pull lever themselves if situations kind of force them to make sense, but what they have can be pretty good this episode is brought you by state farm. Some teams assume a player they pick up in free agency will only help with one rope. Then that player is a superstar that can duck on anyone and play incredible defense. It's like people that assume they can't afford great insurance, but then they discovered that state farm has surprisingly great writes like a good neighbor state farm. Is there get a quote today this episode is brought to you by the redeem tee, a network documentary we don't makers behind the lack dance comes a new inspiring film about one of the greatest? U S, olympic basketball team told by the athlete
themselves: the redeem team follows the comeback story of the two thousand and eight us men's olympic basketball team, led by kobe bryant Dwayne wade carmelo. And lebron james. The team had everything to lose and everything to prove Watch the redeem team now only on netflix. This So it is brought to you by tb ass its october means the end of the policies season is back on tv s. You can watch the biggest Brightest american league take the field and battle it out, respond in the world series, there will be cut, he hit and touch performances, jawdropping action from the division series on october level and, of course, you have watch the crowning of the next american league champion catch the best of the they'll be policies at all, not long on tv s, we ve got another sixteen. Now the arena hawks. This allow me to talk about the hawks was murmured you a check in first.
in your home team in atlanta. How are you feeling about them going into this season coming out of what was a pretty disappointing last season. You know, I think this is gonna, be a sort of referendum, won't show young and the kind of my choice cornerstone that he is What if he is one at all, because I've said it numerous times, I think the hawks didn't come together last year, because guys didn't rally around Trae young, for whatever reason, the the level of defensive commitment that guys refused to give last year to me speaks towards a team that just isn't connected right and so guys who are just like. I don't get to touch the ball on offense, I'm not going to kill myself on defense. They've upgraded. The world
after are in ways that are literally to address trillions, inadequacies and again I'm a trainer guy? I love Cho young and I think what he does on offense is is actually under appreciated the way he can raise the level of the guys around him, but this year Dave opted to that that the talent level and they would rush things that have to do with trade, one's own weaknesses it this don't work. This. Are you sure you just not that Cyprus do? You know I'm because I think they have the p This is a round them again to achieve competence or defence, and traded on is good, too great office by himself the soul. they're, not good man is just a tray young he's, not a leader. It's not a leader of men, he's not a type guy that galvanise the troops and get it. to move one, a cord and so yeah. I'm looking at this year's a referendum on the treaty, our experience,
robert you on the treaty, all experience, I mean more or less in the same place. I think the defensive stuff is concerning right, because that's what got them through that play off run was being connected Why is it that was all smoke and mirrors and that's not revocable because of the way tray plays or personality or the state of clink appellate body, you're or whatever. That is that's really concerning, because you need that level of defence to mop up for trade in a lot of ways, and if you can, if he can be that kind of leader, offensively peeking Are you from good too great in that way? That's nice. sure, he's the guy you're like really building around in a fundamental way, if you don't feel like what's happening on the other side of the ball is at least salvageable, and that that's kind of the other thing that they need to prove this season is like. Can this collection of players as constructed be a competent defense, or do they have that in them? Can deandre hunter take a big step in that regard and fulfill some of his promise like? Do they have the tools to do that because they have a deep and versatile roster? Even still
after argue offloading at a couple of guys. They still do with her to have it It had been. Sacramento urges them in his best life yeah, I think murray has kind of been miscast. Is this defensive savior and while that's probably his forte I ultimately don't even know if that's gonna be as bazin back on this team, because he's not the one on one isolation shut down defender, he gambles alai gets a lot of steals, but he also game and I dont think he's just like the wings stopper- that I think he's kind of been cast as if only because he's kind of been broadly painted as this kind apart to trade like the guy, who will do everything that tray won't. I think the question is actively will Murray will a final healthy hunter plus capella who, by the way, capello play of last season. They were still twenty six on defence, but collectively is that enough to be average on defence to allow thorfinn stitches how about the major saying I think they will be very got off adds yet again.
mean he's he's kind of a shut down defender jones. It really is a set down the offender he just got out of that against big way You know that our guard or discards cards is definitely that type of play. I've seen it in the past maybe you're saying like since he discovered his office and said San Antonio became a borderline all star a lot of times at a lotta guys at times when they become you know they get more respect for their office. They just like yoda gives me more girls. More sports center time I'd rather do this than be fully pot committed on defense. I will here that argument, but as far as men did the things that I saw him do Lou Williams, the warriors were still in Heaven who's, that that was that the kind of thing you had a cop all these war- I don't do it who, outside of a basketball mean abrupt verde, certainly conversation. He can't guard big wing
then I'm already like. Well, that's! But that's not what you have said, but I think we must stop at all, but who is going to guard those guys Listen, I think, under a hunter. That's that's the point right there. That's the model! Well, ok, I think I think murray fits their overall approach because I do think what he can do is generate steals Friends is not opportunities, we're gonna, get the steam out and running, and I think that overall makes sense like allowing him to handle the ball there. Already talking about trade play more off ball that, like he, creates all these different interesting. Was, I think overall will have a big impact. I just don't know about him as some sort of isolation, defensive, save, that's all something he's not gonna save a deeper unto himself, but yet the idea if he can be on ball if hunter and guard the big wing, if capella can be some version of who he was too years ago, like that's it that's a good foundation for a team defects and then in high tray wherever it is. You need to hide him until it that's the lodger he gives. You ultimately is like it's not trained kevin, hurt or playing today
they're in which govern heard. Her has to be clear thompson up there. You know like it's a little bit more manageable. So it brings us to the last room, Member of the starting line up one john collins, because this is my essential question: are we gonna just pretend that the hostile Try to trade, John Collins do everyone over the off season. Yes, because that's what the It is for me. Just talked about pascal cr come here, say: trade rules, What should we years now? Everybody anything he's heard his rock catches over there. He's out. Worse. Overdid, everybody's vaccines never come back at brussels. You ass, a blame are used also a moral guys. So he was like he was born darkness. You now is used that doesn't sell books so for me, if I get junk hounds may come out and through the two were for the money that is people pages
or, if you don't want to be there, make yourself attractive enough to train how about that? that's not how this works, though I agree with you, but that's just now how this works? And I wonder if you now, third or fourth in the backing order. Offensively like how that's gonna work out, and I think the bigger question is: is he the optimal, for it gonna be committed to compel the five or even a con do as down the road. Is he the optimal for for this t, I think so cause eastwards able in ways that capella is, it theoretically, he shoots stretches it in a way that Kabila and a colleague who can exist. They keep the the vertical space income. I want all really do that anymore. The people say it like in late theoretically not been saving gerard collins. Yes, he's he's approach
it's typical for in a lot of ways and theoretically, when he's at his best, he says he has not shown his best play last year was it it was embarrassing at times watching us do last year and his effort. I think you just have to hope that you can sweep that stuff under the rug enough to keep it moving. And hope that was some of these wing. Guys to that again, you ve cleared out enough bodies that everyone is like thinking about their minutes in their touches a little less than they were last season, because that's where so much of that that weird team dynamic around whatever it is. The trays doing on a given night comes from really give. If you don't play because you don't you think you don't play you because you not score and trace I've. Given you the ball, that's a problem. If John Collins's dealing fraud about his position because he was on the trade bloc, that's a problem like they have to find ways to make him feel into
What they're doing I don't know if they're willing to do that, and if maybe bill has gone out of his way to do that, but that's kind of where they are and then, as I try to get it. You're great shock, created you're the league playmaker we get all of that stuff, but you ain't the type of person who stops being a threat once you give the baller right when you're john wall in his prime or westbrook, or so with these other guys are like yeah, but when I do give the ball up, my value is so severely diminished. It's hard to want to not you know, monopolize these possessions trigger, not that you're going to make your team still a threat. When you don't have the rock and you competent, capable people on your team willing to do this shape because that's how you get paid What do you want? A mask, you're deficiencies or, on the other end of the floor, I e produce willing results. Were you dance? So if you want to claim to be a freak in winter, you got it. willing to do this self was stopped, because I think a lot of trouble
was like. Oh, I am so close. Look at my sis numbers: it's like bro, you, you are freaky and monopolizing. All of you possessions in everybody wants to get. They turn to walk so be suffers in other ways beside you know, fake near imagine, johnson aghast, yeah, I take a sister our selfless never have back as soon as they started. Rounding up. They stop in selfless. Do you as are buying the John collins. Future lana is what you're saying by that is good I'm buying that he can be good on this team with the right approach to the game. A basketball yeah, Why, then, can be like a huge contributed to winning honesty? Maybe would they be better than I will if they treated him for more of like a wing type, you move hunter to like a three four You get another combo three four and then it's out at the debts of, I think that's cause so you say hunter late, made me
milligan want just wanna put a kung will win that question here is maybe not the one in the same as a leader in the cup club out to get fired first, the aid- we again there's a pressure there for me, just a the giant J trade, how much they gave up to make that happen, that's pressure right, naming Melanie one. I think fire and dudes. I hate doing that, but like yeah, this is no proof that this guy is going to be. Creative enough, and you know just have the authority to put his imprint on this thing. Like There's no proof of it. Maybe things have changed. I would love to see it cause. I I just think they have a spawn roster, but man, I'm scared. Does that make me no one will be to want to pull this all together. I think we're Or selling a little bit how fun it's gonna beat a watch trained, a giant it together like I want this to be all and gloom. I'm really excited about that pairing and what they can do and seeing
what tres open to in terms of the for some variety in the role that we're kind of begging him to take. I think I think that could be really healthy. Yeah I had the hawks above the raptors. I dunno did you guys have the same. I'm looking at the results are now wise, yeah, the raptors first. And I'm just I just got so burned by the hawks last year. So when I was filling it out, I was extra down on them sure, but then the conceit day there are more talented than the toronto raptors are, is a talented, deep team. I think the problem is. The east is just very talented and in top there, unfortunately, and if they dont breakin too, like the top six, if they are a sure fire play off team, are you not reject
stations, especially with a new ish type of owner, and so it the cards are. The deck is stacked against a melon to begin with, but you know would be nice if the team play defense, that's supposed to be his expertise, so I last team on part two number, fifteen, your los angeles, lakers did you set this up? Yes like this and then as a closer, I feel like human made, massage this a little bit. Well, if I remember correctly, Isaiah had to break a tie between this and the team were going to start part three with so yes- and here- would be a nice stopping point, but also felt like me need a lot of room to discuss the lakers. So I wanted to clear out give us some space. I have a question involves ross, but maybe we should talk about more big picture. Judges do my optimism speak for you guys. I would love to hear it. Ok, I think the big thing is
everyone is over corrected a little too much on Anthony Davis and the brown james, Anthony Davis, in particular to you ago, two calendar years, because the bubble screwed up the schedule. We were saying that the most dominant Wars in the nba was eighty abroad and you could buy anything around them. It didn't matter. This is what was going to decide. The fate of the nba for the next couple years and mother did not happen. Obviously, I dont think what happened in the end rum should be shaking a so much to suggest that these guys, fully healthy and enjoy age in having just even a basic level of competence. Around them still can't be pretty get. The west is much deeper the nba overall is much tougher, so you're not gonna, sit here and be like they're, a sure fire top for seed there the top six, but I do think this team in de in braun in particular, are being
under saddam in large part, because the jokes like yeah, like things, have not conway. When everyone loves schadenfreude and everyone loves baggy on the lakers. I do too trust me. We did plenty of podcasts about it last year. It was great, but I think this is a classic situation where the the narrative is completely overwhelmed to the point where, like actually the truth is probably something closer to vacant, still be pretty good if X, wines- So that's where I'm just then I hear you, I respect you as a colleague. I dont want I see you're saying now absolutely I just watch. I just want to know how it hit you when darwin- I'm announced the lakers start, line up and you found out that kendrick none and Damien Jones we're gonna. in it. That's all I want to know. What's in it kindred none can star in play, the theme is already starting off in a better place than they were last year. Like back, I can actually, in theory, headed three border, which they didn't have very We anyone outside of hillbilly cobb
ah said, Rahim sarcastically herself, yeah kendrick, none! It is a big factor, honest what they get into that that's that's a dark place to start yeah sure, so, my rock with with the aid the argument that you just laid out is I get it in theory, except at no point last year did a deep play at the level of the players he was when we will call on him dominant that's what my like when he was held so like this, the part that he doesn't play an illusion port they when he did play last year, there were like with three games like all snub we're going? Eighteen, thirty, two thirty: in wow aggressive, that's a lantern sounds ten times, wow Y, all You know like we were blown away when it happened soon, three times less here, that's what he did
yeah. He hasn't shown that level in future years, basically now which almost two years we're talking about, he hasn't shown that level and then the lakers as a whole right decision that they were defending their championship when aid. would go out. There was still a top. Five difference lies. She was so far removed from that, and so I'm just asking like. Even if eighty gets too you know tat, for defender in the nba level, whose around him to supplement and compliment that in the way is that true, so called well put up and how kuchma were able to when they read the height? what they were doing. You know I mean like that, like the at a certain point, the perimeter defenders have to take on the identity of this is how we will
games. When I'm gonna win games by being some tootsie beautiful game offensive machine we have to win games or defence. Would we're not gonna achieve office of some crazy level and they have the guys on their team that want to have the mindset to have the the talent to do it. No and I I want to table the supporting cast, seized in the rough conversation in just the stock by it. It is quickly, I think, my conor too, is a lot of things? You're? Bringing up could be said about eighty eyes entire career, like oh not motivated enough in certain instances, when things go bad, yes, the tendency to cope oh he's always injured yadda, but he still manages to drag himself out of this. I'm actually more concerned about what happened to his jump shot like you have acted ass. He can't shoot three point. yours at all, not even credibly any more is baffling
because he's always had a nice shy, is always been a very competent shooter used to do a lot of mid range stuff. That was pretty dangerous. I think that is a bigger factor, if only because I think just don't have a three point shooting, even if they get some third point shooters by trading ross, in order to compensate for that. What yet even just the mid range stuff. I liked the were creating gradations with this with eighty, because there really is like, if he's just engage and healthy and working defensively. That's already of a pretty good, if not really good player, if he has the shot top of it. That's the kind of thing that gets you deep into the playoffs. We just see no evidence since the bubble to suggest he's ever gonna replicate daddy and, like you, shouldn't fifty percent on mid range and there, in addition to the three is, I don't think that's who he is any more for whatever reason, and that is concerning when you, when you take everything else into the picture, and we have all of these caveats on him already, as you suggested. These are not new problems in terms of his effort level in terms of his health concerns like this. This is been hanging over the whole time, and so this extended
be dramatically different guy. I'm not sure I see that sea. I think the trees and the mid rangers bother me a lot less if he's being aggressive and putting pressure on the rim both taking. will end in one on one, because alright, let somebody else take the trees, then right like actually put pressure on the rim and had defenses sucking and let other guys take open threes because you're being so aggressive about pressuring the pay like do that. Do the work it's from the t, a d don't be some passive dude who all you ever do offensively is take fade a ways from sixty two: that's not an effective player, but you play with Lebron james, like I've watched them be a dominant ticket Well, do you know that didn't necessarily rely on eighty be enabled a plot just straight away yo. Why are you the commit resources does Dobbin. I'm a d on this role will shape.
I was gonna just drive through the woods, What that either right, like I'm, watch them be dominant, that way do that this week, Let me just say this: guy gets a lot line eleven times and again she shoot rosa be liable to there. I agree with you. I almost wonder if we should be looking at this warlike, yon us where it's like. I think you should be a more yes, he should assault. The remedy also should probably is more on the mid range jumper, as opposed to like stretching out to three and three be something that you leave open when you're white opening you take that which probably brings us to our next question It only be that player if he has adequate shooting around him to ride in the space to do so. So the lakers I am sure everyone listening pod gas probably been privy to like it. have gone on this pr assault. The really rehab russ, as this consummate teammate may just,
ready to do whatever is necessary and yadda yadda to the point where it's like? It's pretty apparent I don't know if anyone has any counters to that, we're all in agreement right that this is all bullshit, oh yeah, can see like the talking points poking out of their pocket. You know it's. It's pretty obvious, what's happening here. The best part was when genie bus to the athletic called russ the best. And the lakers last year and sammy mic followed up on it because it was pretty shocking and she can ginger comment to consistent, not most insisting that his consistency, just like really set the tone for us. He was consistent, so yeah, it seems like everyone is aligned and especially after braun sign the extension that something has to happen here. it seems like it's only a matter of time until they bring. In the help that they need. I it seems like the trade with the papers
is inevitable, and so almost pricing in that body heal the mouse turner sums version of trade is going to happen if not before the seas, than early on in the season. Is that kind of how you guys are thinking as well. That will form a different calculation here. Like if you give me a d and myles turner and their active engaged on, I we talk about something. no cause, we go god the hell out of people at that point. If, if that's, if that's truly, what we're talking about, then we're talking about something, but this team is presently constructed in the zester with a capital d, okay, yeah. I think I am future casting here and I'm just like going based off of vibes and assumptions, I guess but like it seems pretty, that. Everyone is in agreement that the scheme is not going to work as currently constituted.
Something is going to change just a matter of what that something is, and when that happens, we need you to live in the now. This is the theme we got like we're. Gonna have to watch this for some period of time until until do something with it was an. I watched, a half of lakers, precision, basketball and while it's the first like two minutes were fucking awesome like ross, drawing defenders and then dumping it off to. I believe it was kendrick now and I'm like. Let's go, this team is back baby and then scored a total of seventy five points. Against the sacramento kings or region described might be one of the worst offensive teams in the mba recently, so it will be bad, but I guess if, if they figure this out soon, I guess we'll have to
african conversations where they land? If this team stays as it is for a full, sees playin plan or may be worse now, I think I think, probably in the plan. Ok was the same, but as it is yes play, guy tansy, what if it is now meaning they gonna wanna two games right. What? If it's now three davis lebron James miles, turner body healed, let's just say, kendrick, not not an who will be the fifth patrick everley, whoever yeah. I think that that day, that version of the team is the broad embracing is true reality. I e! U have to create what his team always but rather be off the ball limit. Stop me: it's your job to create often with his team and a d in our mouths turner argument anchor a hell of a defence.
Huge size, bleeding people, one, the boards beating people up on the glass and that's the basis of your team. You will be a nitty gritty Are you glided I'll, because the broad james is one of the greatest creators play makers, tat we ve ever seen and again here that that seen as an identity, you know this. I don't know what. hell, I'm looking at it, but he even that identity might only get you. The fiddler or sixth seed of Well, I guess you don't crack in the tub, for is, is is huge with disdain for the ports of the twenty two. I hope you have a chance like you're, saying lebron james in a play off series gave up maybe in the best case scenario with home court avenging the first round, like that's pretty fucking good, I guess that's. What I'm saying is, I guess, why have so much optimism, because we just have one or two more comments ro players around this team doesn't look completely different armies?
like all the lakers yeah. Maybe they can be pretty good, all the sun and that's why I think like suggesting that they're just this disaster, When you still have Anthony Davis and lebron James is a bit too far, I think be able to get on this ledge with you accept that I was listening to the most recent episode of real ones and they brought our power. Sasha Shaw to talk about the lakers. Naturally, who do you think your favorite Lakers are gonna, be the season and the way she gravitated toward dwayne bacon over the course that conversation with it wishes. Blake. I can't live another team he's on the team technically on the team. That's where we are in terms of the supporting cattle. Even if we talk about pad beverly you, I guess it is in this mix. Somewhere storage shut up it's your team, The sugar reforms should also ensure Lonnie. Walk if you're into that sort of thing like I don't know man I mean that yeah, the miles turner, buddy healed situation would be nice, doesn't solve everything. Does it really get them into the country?
being mixed necessarily, but it makes them more dangerous. There's no doubt about that, and so that's why we find them and never jeanne on our list? I think I was way higher than you guys. If I'm looking at that, we, and I am- I am thirteen- you guys had them sixteen and seventeen. I just tell you what I believe This is a thirteenth best, even the nba, I think the cat I mean when you look at the teams, ranked behind them my getting through better than the hawks. I don't know if I were the head of the two teams I have re buying them right now have to worry, but there will be further accepts honour your mouse tunnel thing I would make them better than the horse this team. Why now embedded in the hawks? I do you forget and here I think, we're talking like top ten is not like- is not- is possible top ten team rhinos
look last episode. You gave miles turner max contract. This episode is final yeah somebody carry a torch for me. The way you carry one for myles turner, it will show that I walked back so that our that's it report to what we back friday with part three. Until then rising await their production.
Transcript generated on 2022-10-14.