« The Vanished Podcast

Judith Brown

2022-05-02

19-year-old Judith Brown disappeared from New York City in April of 1977. Judith lived on her own, so her family wasn’t immediately aware that she was missing. Judith’s family learned she was missing when the FBI came knocking at their door. They were shocked to learn that Judith had disappeared along with someone else, a murderer who had escaped from a local mental health facility. More than 45 years later, both of them remain missing. For many years, Judith’s family kept quiet about this. It was too upsetting to reopen those wounds. As the years wore on, a younger generation of Judith’s family took an interest in finding answers. Today, they are left to sift through the remaining clues passed down through family members and old documents. 

If you have any information regarding the disappearance of Judith Brown, please contact the NYPD Missing Persons Squad at 212-694-7781.

You can follow this case on social media at Judith Anne Brown Missing - “Vanished With a Killer.” 

Special thanks to Erika from The Apex & The Abyss, and Melissa from Just the Tip-sters for voicing letters in this episode.

This episode was sponsored by:

Sleep Number- Proven quality sleep is life-changing sleep. Special offers, for a limited time. Only at Sleep Number stores or sleepnumber.com/VANISH.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey prime numbers. You can listen to the vanished ad free on amazon, music download the app today. So people talk about coal cases in cases just being really cold, cold and arctic. I mean for me, I'm like a cable. This is like an iceberg as all that in the cases that we know about are above the water, and this one is so cold. It gets still below the water. This is the first time I'm ever able to speak about it in a platform more than just me and a family member judy like the girl that time forgot and I find it heartbreaking, and I just wanted advice, get some with these letters like they do help in a lot of ways, and I think, as I go through them more and more and analyzing them
there's a lot of interesting stuff in it. I don't think it's gonna led me to a direction, in terms of where look, but it definitely helps me to establish this idea that something happened her and even if it was by his hand on purpose she's, probably not coming back I was really even today about earlier have classes tomorrow in this examine and somebody in the middle of their life and then all of a sudden cycles, never seen or heard from again Nineteen year old Judith brown disappeared from new york city in April of nineteen. Seventy seven at the time of Judah was living on her own, so her family immediately aware that Judith was missing and much of Judah last known footsteps before she disappeared remain a mystery to her family. Even today, forty five years, she vanished, but back in team, seventy seven Judas
learn she was missing when the f b I came knocking at our door. You see Jude had disappeared along with some one else: a murder who had escaped from a local mental health facility. More than forty five, years later. Both of them remain missing. For many years, Judas family kept quiet about this. It was too upsetting, reopen those wounds, but as the the war on a younger generation of Judas family took an interest in finding answers. Today there are left to sift through remaining clues passed down through family members and old letters. Amerika in from one to read this episode. Three hundred and forty two of the vanished judith brown story
Academy award nominee carry mole again, emmy nominees a week as an story, she said as new york times, reporters megan to eat and jody canter, who together broke one of the most important stories in a generation, a story. That shattered decades of silence around the subject of sexual assault in hollywood and ignited if in american culture that continues to this day, the film co stores, oscar nominee patricia clarkson Emmy winner, Andre Braugher and tony they're jennifer freely with a cat a war nominees, Samantha Morton, she said: isn't it now. It feels a bit cliche, to say that some stories really are stranger than fiction, but this case Italy is in over three hundred the episodes. We have never come across a case like this before what is puzzling,
is that there has not been much coverage of Judith disappearance over the past four and a half decades. You'll be more like we d find her briefly mentioned in articles about the killer, who was also missing, but not much about judith herself or any efforts to find her. Brings us to julianne. Who was not. born when Judith disappeared. Julian's mother, who has since passed away, was Judith cousin, julian heard about Judith disappearance when he was a teenager, and he has always been fascinated by this family mystery. That's the thing about food the mysteries they tend to effect double generations of a family. I know this from my personal experience. I grew up hearings, worries about my great grandfathers, unsolved disappearance, up starting this podcast, and here we are as june. His gun older he's become one determined to search for answers for his long lost family member, who ever even had a chance to me.
Julian is a long time listener of the show and decide did you send, in our case emission form and the fall of two thousand twenty one, while speaking with julian heat, this about his own journey from learning about Judith as a teen to today, Judas is my mother's first, causing she would be my cousin once removed. I've never met her. She vanished in nineteen. Seventy seven and I was born in nice too. In my early teens you're, my mother, I think you should just tell me stories about the family, and one day I just came up. She would tell me about a cousin that she had that went missing, and I was so surprised as You know like maybe fourteen or fifteen, and I'm like what do you mean missing and she told me the story and then I was like well so, what's everyone doing about it and she was like? I don't really know and as I asked a couple of my other relatives, what was going on you'll just out of curious
Do you know they were sort of like while it's been a coal case for decades? So nothing really. I don't. I don't think I think, there's been a little bit of confusion. Because we have a large family- and I guess who was in charge of pushing forward. It always fluctuated didn't know of the communication was always good. I'm an investigator in new york. I work for legal aid. I've been doing destinations for ten years now, Julian, has been thinking about Judith, mysterious disappearance, since he was a teenager and as Adult he decided he would start looking into the case himself. He is both the skill set in interest for this type of work What we know about Judith is that she was a bright young woman who had just nineteen have her whole life ahead of her. She had goals
in dreams. She wanted to go back to school, to study psychology, but Judith had her struggles to. We also spoke to one of Judith cousins. More mean who was able to give us some background information about Judith and her family before the age of when I reached fourteen, so that would be in the sixties, Judith family and my family lived within blocks of each other. We were very close after Judith's father had his accident, which was nineteen sixty five and he had a terrible, traumatic brain injury. Then family moved queens. When my grandfather, joy, Samia and you'd its family moved to the bronx to a me avenue at that point, we saw each other, but not anywhere like we had before, so the relationship was still intact.
but less close as jews entered her ten years. She began to exhibit behaviors that were concerning to her family members. Well, when she was little issue, is this more quiet, little girl that I knew you know she was my first cousin and when I met her again as a teenager, she seemed very odd. She seemed very troubled. of duties problem, I think- and maybe I'm not right, but you know her father had a terrible accident when he was younger when duty was about eight yourselves, her fathers, I I hit and run by a drunk driver and she went headfirst into a tree and had a traumatic brain injury. So a lot of treaties grown up years. I mean the first like my cousin Kathy
We took care of the mall was only twelve and then a duty at cathy left it at home at eighteen and Judith them was about twelve herself or maybe a little bit older, twelve fourteen. When she started taking care of the children grow up fast. They all did and with not a lot of adult supervision. She was depressed. I know that and anxiety and depression. She said to me at one point: it was a long time that we hadn't seen each other and she said to me that my family seemed so warm as opposed to her family, at that there was a lot of hugging. A lot of that kind of thing. I know for a fact you to smother was not a touchy. Feely person, even though she was my mother's sister, that would totally different. My mother was much more touchy and much more warm, and in that sense, not that you did smothered wasn't she could have her fun optimistic times
but she wasn't a warm type of person and I think that stood at a lot to Judith. It just started having questions I think about her family. The reason the julian side of the families integral to this case is a Judas parents siblings, had moved away from new york city to Kansas and Judith gin. Want to go along with them. She was close to her Lee, but wanted to stay in new york, where my part of the family comes in a little bit more is that her family had moved. From new york to Kansas in nineteen seventy six and for some in judy decided I'm not going to Kansas. It was like a really rural part. A kansas and duty was like no, so she stayed in new york with my grandmother and my mother and aunts and uncles in their home in flushing queens and that sort of how there can
into this happen. When Judith came to live with, marines family marine saw with her own eyes. Some of the troubling patterns at Judith was exhibiting when she came to live with us. It was evident to me, because I too have a nursing backgrounds, thought she had problem with anorexia bulimia. She had a problem with glass sittings. She was depressed, besides the eating disorders she had where she was concerned, overly concerned with showering, with steaming her face with a number of things. That seems quite odd. Despite her struggles, Judith had plans for her future. She wanted to go back to school. She said to me that the reason that she had chosen to go to the guardia community college was because they had met some type of mental health programme and that she was looking
to get answers for herself? She obviously wanted to work on her mental health problems which she definitely realized. It was some problems in early august of nineteen. Seventy six judith cousin we got a phone call from one of Judas professors at the community college. It appeared that, He was having some sort of breakdown. Maureen went to the go to see if she could help Judith get into a treatment facility. This is what happened when I went to look wadi community college after receiving the call from the teacher and finding Judith underneath the desk, we put her in the car when we reached elmhurst general, they said
we are not going to admit heart because she is in reality contact? I remember those words reality contact and they said we are now experiencing a doctor's strike. Then the t turn I got you back into the car and we drove a little further. We hit creed, more hospital and I said you do to please don't sign yourself, and could she wanted to do that and she did it, and I was saying to the teacher: let's just drive, to elves hillside hospital. I worked in both hospitals, that's much better facility, much better for her age group and he did not want to go because I know how to get there by car, so Judith just signed herself and to create more. I went home and I tell my parents and they went there-
and got her out there and signed in two hillside, sheep, the solely in three more for a day, possibly two days after Judith sought treatment and was stabilized. She returned school in the fall of seventy six Judith wrote letters tour Emily in kansas after they moved away in ones? which letter from september of nineteen seventy six Judith says the following: dear mom, dad and kids school be starting. This thursday I will be taking three. Places abnormal psychology, general psych too, and writing and literature. I will have fridays off, so it will only be a four day week. I will also be working at the school. How is everyone school work, life in general Where is it getting cold? Then Judith goes on to mention a man. I've known this hello, richard and have been seeing him.
For about a month. He is very nice with a great personality we met talking at a bus. Stop. He is out of college right now. I will be writing you again soon. Gotta run to the store, miss you all, love Judy, In another letter, Judith said the following about richard leave, I mentioned in my last letter that I was seeing someone his name is richard There is an eleven year, each difference, but it doesn't get way of our relationship. In fact, it helps because of his maturity. Clear from Judith letters to her family that she cared deeply for them and made an effort to stay connected. Despite being fifteen hundred miles apart in a letter we're family in november of nineteen. Seventy six Judith had this to say. sorry I haven't written in a while. I took a leave of absence from school. I just wasn't motivated towards it. I want to find work. I want to very much, but
stagnant. This will be hopefully something you see as a positive I'm going to therapy three times a week. Much of it is because of just my inner self. The way I view and feel about certain things here hard thing to do. Speaking with another person about the things you would probably never speak about, otherwise is hard to face feelings. You would rather push but I know in the long run it will be a very growing part in my life before smith of nineteen? Seventy six Judith said a short note to her family. In the note she mentions this man Richard again dear mom and dad. Here are some money. As a christmas present from myself and my boy and richard I would have gotten a card and probably will wanted to send this out to you I'll write again all my love. Well, leading through Judas ladders, its clear that you struggling with her mental health and at sea She wasn't always completely forthcoming about that. With her family we can also fall.
These mentions of a man named richard in in january of nineteen, seventy seven Judith wrote once again this time. It was more open about what she was going through and also drops big news dear mom, dad in family last week I got engaged, I meant to write much sooner, but everything has been sort of chaos his name is richer, rising burke- It seems I dont know what else to say, wish you can meet him There is also something else. You know I going to therapy. It was for about four months. I was having difficulty with school and took off as a leave of absence, As of now, I'm in hillside hospital, an impatient programme which three months in duration. They have different activities one has a specific goal in mind: one of them, and I mean is for helping people who get frustrated easily. You work with love. And would I am also-
being typing classes, trying to work up my speed. I feel I need to work on a lot of things concerning myself after the programme they have after care therapy. Which is coming in during the day and living at home. Shortly after. Judith sent that letter. She must have gotten one from her mother: voicing concerns about this relationship with Richard Judas, another letter this time specific to her mother, dear mom. now that you know that richard is in the hospital? I did not tell you that myself because felt. It would worry you mom I know what I'm involved in and know everything turn out for the best Let her goes on to discuss how an aunt had come to a therapy session with Judith and they were made plans with her therapist for her to move to an after care apartment wish. Would be living with two roommates. I feel for myself
I should try and make my way on my own independently. At this point, I dont think that I would to come and live out in Kansas. Being away from richard would be hurting for me, and I feel I should get myself together here It is more familiar for me, love you all very much judy By late february of nineteen, seventy seven we can tell the Judith had moved in apartment she was discussing, based on a letter that she wrote to her family in subsequent letters. She contain to discuss how she was going to school and how, love. She was with Richard Judith. Even must descend a picture of them together. She said that rich had sent off for copies descend, pictures to both of their families. Judith talked about she was doing group therapy with other residents at the after care apartments. She seemed very positive about her future. There in the letter stopped coming, Judith brown,
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So, who was this mysterious richard marine too said she did meet him. What's she brought he meant to my mother's home? I was in the living room. I thought she said this is richard. I saw him for approximately less than thirty seconds they disappeared. I think upstairs. to do from Judas letters. We know that richard was eleven years older than her. And she mentioned in one letter to her mother that richard was in the hospital, but Judith didn't really tell her We much more about this man, except that they were in love Judas, wasn't aware that she was missing. Remember at this point. She moved out of the home. She was sharing with her extended family members. and was living in those after care apartments where she live on her own, but still had group and individual therapy sessions her mother.
sent letters from kansas to relatives in new york asking if they had seen or heard from her, but no one here the family was shocked when law enforcement officials showed up at their door. I remembered the police coming to my mother's home and I remember I think it was because Richard had disappeared and they put that Judith was with him and that's how I found out. She was gone and also my mother said to me that a neighbor had told her tat. They had seen Judith down in flushing and the shopping center buying a suitcase. It's the only question the police asked me was: did he have a beard, and I said I really couldn't remember. I hadn't seen him for any any length of time. Judith to tell me at one point that her and richard were
we'd be married in the une unitarian church. When my mother told me that Judith was seen by the suit case, a yeah, it'll kind of made sense at the time I did not know, but from reading newspaper article after It stated that he had killed his wife and son and I think that was nineteen. Seventy one, so I only found out after after they were gone. I'm sure you can imagine how much of a shock this was for Judith family and how scared. They must have been for her safety. One thing we aren't one hundred percent. Sure about is exactly how Judith came to meet richard in one that you heard that she had written to her family in September but she had met him at a bus. Stop in the theater seeing each other for about a month. It is possible that they met this as you will learn later, that richard was allowed to leave the grounds of the creed more facility where he was committed. However, the time
of that also lines up with when Judith voluntarily committed herself to creed. More facility where richard was living marine told such judith was only half that facility for a day or two before her family, and had her transferred to hillside because they felt that way better facility for her whither. They by chance at a bus, stop or well Judith was temporarily at creed more. It appears They only knew each other for a period of months before they ultimately disappeared. Together In one letter, Judith acknowledge that richard was in the hospital, and by that We can assume she meant creed more, but she in, say anything further, its unclear if he had ever told Judith why he was there and if he did, did it I heard the shocking truth, richard was sent to live at creed more after a brutally murdered his wife and seventeen months old son in nineteen, seventy one an expert testify richard was so consumed with his own guilt and therefore unfit
stand trial. So the judge committed richard to a man. Oh health facility, couple of years later, richard was deemed competent and at trial. is found not guilty by reason of insanity. In an august, he eighty three article in the new york daily news. It states that richard, wife. Diane have been experiencing marital problems. Diane had some medical issues, their son born with brain damage and richard in carrying on multiple affairs, one one he had been seeing broke off their relationship the day before the murders. Richard claim that his if and son were alive and well when he left for work on the morning of the murders and that he found I'm dead when he returned that evening, policed I did to search the trash at his work. That was they found a knife extension cord and a pair of underwear. These items type back to the murders, the knife was to stab his wife sixty times and the cord was used.
strangle his toddler son, what make as a shock to you. Is that richer? was given a lot of freedoms at creed, more. He worked there unity store and then was put to work in the kitchen. Since he had experience, working in the catering industry in the november first, team. Seventy seven article in the new york times it states at richard had a taste for gourmet foods and would off leave the grounds of the facility to find better food than what was offered at the hospital. He also attended It's ball, games and movies even more outrageous was the reason he was able to afford to do all of this because- had received the proceeds of his wife's life insurance. Usually a killer would not be allowed to receive these types of funds. but since he was found not guilty by reason of insanity, he was able to collect her life insurance. His share, was eleven thousand three hundred and sixty two dollars, and I answer: It's got the remainder of the policy. Five thousand
hundred and eighty dollars and well that not seem like a whole lot of money today would be the equivalent of over seventy three thousand dollars in nineteen Seventy seven investigators learned about richards excursions around the city and began to look at her or other unsolved murders in the area, then proviso. Creed more put in a recommendation for richer to be true or to a maximum security facility. When richard caught wind of this, he walked through creed. More gates, one final time and never came back disappearing forever, with Judith brown. In articles about the case Judith is rarely mentioned, when she has mentioned it, just a brief note that nineteen year old girlfriend with him when he escaped what seems to be overlooked Judith was a young, vulnerable woman who was likely monopoly. Aided by a much older man with a violent history, here's julie,
again. A big part of my motivation, for this also is to find her because she deserves justice, but for him also that he's not harming anybody else It's almost like a judy like the girl, the time forgot and I I found it heartbreaking and at an age I just want to admit, and get some with that I mean I know. I know at this point it is very hard to look at what direction could they have went, but I think she was extremely vulnerable because of her mental health and that her family relocated and she decided to stay behind. She had a good relationship with
and my mother and my grandmother and and our family. I just think she felt kind of lost most of her life and was gone with her family. You know there was such a big family, I'm sure she had friends here. Also, I don't think she was looking to meet a man and runaway. I just think she met him and the only thing that made sense for them was for them to like run away together. and he was probably a bit. Manipulative am Burke S, energy was vulnerable and I'm pretty sure, and most of my family feels this way. That does she left of her own choosing like a voluntarily by beyond that, she would have either come back or contact her family or done something. So I think they they gonna on a bus or train somewhere in india.
Work in new york city from eastern queens and they just went somewhere and I can see life me imagine where today its own clear, the exact date in which judith and richard disappeared in the name of database. It lists April sick. As the day Judith was last seen in articles, richard multiple dates can be found, including April twenty first and is at some time in may julian explain, he's been trying to kneel down a more accurate date himself in name ass. It does April six nineteen seventy seven, but I have recently discovered that that's probably not correct and I but that's usually a sort of common thing to me, there's some scepticism on the exact date because
she was living in her own apartment. At the time richard was coming to visit her from the hospital, and you know, like my aunt said Udall once he got wind of the fact that they were going to really lock him down and in in something that he wouldn't have been able to walk around and do what he wanted like. He was that's when he just said to her. I think we need to get outta dodge, but the dates could be off a little bit and they might be bathed basing it on the day that richard went missing. I don't think he spoke to anyone every day, but she did in continuous contact with various people. I was talking to one her sisters. Judy is one of eight kids won. Her sisters was in particular searching for her fifty years, and she mentioned that there were letters dated from the duty to her mother after April. Six The most recent when she told me about was April eighteenth, her mother vander they migrate
Van DE she still alive. I guess I didn't really share them with anybody until at some point somebody found them. I would guess some time at the end of April, and I don't even know when this was initially reported cause. I know the f b I got involved very quickly because of the nature of that person she disappeared with, and I guess they suspected that she might have. They might have cross state lines. Co, ceo, any in new york city, it's very easy to just leave new york being new jersey or connecticut. So they were aware that she was missing with this other guy very quickly, and the f b I interviewed, saw my aunts and uncles and my mother right out of high school, like they pulled them out of school middle of the day to be like
what do you know about their whereabouts, and the impression I got is that they were mainly interested in finding him not duty, and I think she was kind of like a side no you're like if I guess, if we find him we'll find out what happened to her nobody as of now, I can't find a date that my family last saw her their residents Julian, did uncover some notices that were sent to Judith by the apartment staff from after care programme. She was housed in
these notices help us narrow down the date a little bit more. I even have some correspondence from the hospital cause. She was living in an apartment building. That's no longer there in an q, gardens new york city that the hospital heads signed her up four as part of like a sort of outpatient mental health programme where they provide housing and that they have this in her in her letters- and I gave these correspondence from the hospital afterward thing, if you don't show up within a certain number of days, you're in violation of your problem we're going to like let your housing go. She never went back to her housing after that, and eventually they sent a letter saying: okay, well, you're a violation of this program, so we're not going to hold the housing for you any more final letter telling Judith that she had broken her lease by leaving her Parliament without notice and failing to attend her,
appointments and apartment group meetings was dated April, twenty eightth nineteen, seventy seven. So we know that by that date, Judith had disappeared. yours when Julian started to look into this on his own. He began talking to family members. And found that not everyone wanted to talk about this summer. My family members, I think they have more information as well. It may be letters but every month in a little bit tight lipped about it cause you know, sometimes that is too sensitive from some people more than others, and I find it some of my fellow members have kind like try to bury it. So deep within their psyche like bringing it up, is like a big. No, no Recent here is not that they don't care it they're so traumatized by what happened and this is a really old cases. I think most of them have in their minds
somehow tried to come to acceptance in terms with it and that their age. Now they can't handle the stress of digging this up from from how cold it it's been, and it just happened, Come to me because I chose it for some reason it I just became an investigator by coincidence. In this case it always stuck with me. It's inside, teenager anyway, and I really just want to find out for the for her and my family. and you know over her mother still alive and what the sole livened she's, very sick right now- and you know she's like early It has alzheimer's and you know so. I can't even really talk to her about this at all, but I think my whole family deserves to know because my mom's side of the family is very large and just talking to them about the little bits of information that I was getting to them about this case. I could see how much it affected them stuff that
was buried beneath decades of emotional stuff, but you and has made some progress with his family and has gathered more and more letters from back in the seventies, the letters Judith that you would hurt. Clips from earlier julian, found these letters to be helpful, not only for building a timeline, but they so give us a window into Judas life in the lead up to her disappearance. Julian told us about his thoughts. After reading all of the letters, a bunch of letters that she had written to her family were not found until very recently. My great it kind of kept them hidden and then, when they were going through some of her stuff, they found them and didn't even know about them. I read these letters and it seemed right up until the time she disappeared she was constantly in communication with her family in Kansas, her sister that was living in the bronx is she was very committed.
Save. It seemed so with these letters it she wanted. What was going on? You know she was asking about how this Killings were doing. She had one brother who was away in the military courts sister had just had a child, so she was missing her family in it. She was homesick because she did. She was a from kansas, but she must have a lot, but she wanted to stay in new york. she was seeking treatment and she wanted. She apparently wanted to get better. However, she could, and then I met him fell in love. The letters don't indicate any reason why she would have not stating contacts she had a sibling that was about five or six years old at the time who she was crazy in love with she was getting pictures from and was constantly asking in her letters how how she doing her name is vanda. Also our standards and one or other sisters that was around her age just had her first child. So issue
also like all, I wanna, see the baby and in seventy six in december, a few months before when she disappeared in April, seventy seven she actually went out to kansas to visit for christmas saw everybody and everything was great and she came back and take all of a sudden one day. Richard must have come up to her and said. I need to run away and made up some reason and she went with him and that's it. I just feel that is, she would has try to over the years. At some point is she could, but the reason why I always thought that it kindness extended onto to richard was that he was never found either, and that was strange to me. History was, I mean, that's the most disturbing part, how long into people on the run, so to speak, survive
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This rowing in my favorite flavour, cocoanut pineapple for free visit, drink circle, dot, com, slash vanished to get those limited time offer today again that string circle dot com sash, vanished, drink, see. I r k you l, dot com, slash vanished, We know that law enforcement did try to find richard and even involved the fbi. Unfortunately We don't know what they may have found out. We requested records for both Judy. Case and also richard, but we were told that they couldn't find any records we do Now, if this means they were lost, destroyed or never existed. One aspect of this asia also remains unclear is when Judith was considered a missing person.
Appears that initially she was looked at as a young woman who voluntarily walked away from her life to be with richard, but Judith ever been seen or heard from again family believes that she wouldn't have gone this long without contacting them. How is it passed Well, that she's never popped up anywhere. Could she be they're alive somewhere, is apposite that she and richer just ran off, perhaps even fled the country. Been living in hiding this whole time. we do know that in two thousand nine Judith was entered. Into the name, is database and is considered a missing person today. There concern, because this young vulnerable woman left with someone who had murdered his wife and toddlers sun. Could he have killed Judith too? We richard had access to some resources here that me from his wife's life insurance. We don't know if that was left behind in an account or if he had taken with him when he laughed julian wonders about this money to and if it could have, aid
damn during their escape see. Originally I had thought they had didn't have any resources, but I recently learned that when richard had killed his wife and was declared not guilty by way of insanity, he was still eligible to receive our insurance payments like her life insurance, which to me is crazy. So I think the insurance but amount was about six roughly sixteen thousand dollars and he got eleven her family got size, so he might have had like this stack of insurance money tucked away. So I think they had some resources initially, but beyond that, I've listened to so many of your other episodes and and staying off the grid and not using your social security number not haven't identification. I don't think they were that savvy with those kind of thing.
There are other letters that Julian has found from other family members that help them build a timeline of events, just by taking the time out to talk to my family and see what they possibly hadn't known or had in their possession. I was able to gather about, I say about forty to fifty separate letters and within the year before she disappeared with Judith writing to her family in kansas, and perhaps some other people here and there and then after she disappeared her mother riding to my grandmother about it, and it was very, very helpful with a timeline an interesting to see. It was very apparent very quickly. I remember reading a letter I think it was dated. May twenty fifth nineteen, seventy seven, that duties
The vandam already knew that something was wrong because I think, right after richard didn't reappear impatient at creed more, they immediately started. Looking for him, you know he's a violent patient or possibly violent patient by a month later Half later her mother already was. I was asking my grandmother to like have a service for her in new york and and pray for her and reading. This was is heartbreaking. they're just to see that this had all all happen. So I have like this year of letters from from Judy before she died. Here and this year after of letters from her mother writing to my family in new york, and It was able to just give me a lot of context as like what was going on and the basic concepts
Judy, didn't really know anything was going on, but I dont believe she news of his of richard past. I've been told by others that heat that he had manipulative tendencies. The qualities to him, what really initiate this disappearance is once he finds out that they're gonna lock him down. He commences her to go with him. ever and they're gone one letter written by Judith, smother vander to a family member in new york says the following. I hope my request this does not upset you, but I need to know if you judy social security number. If I could get a hold of that, I might be able to have her traced. Also, if you know the name and address of his parents or a phone number Could you please let me have it? I would not reveal where it came from me, While please join me in prayer that one day I'll be reunited with my daughter, love vander?
Avenue that Julian has considered is contacting richards family. He has wondered have say aided richard in his get away or if they have had contact with him or judith in the years that have passed since they went missing Julian? Has its hesitations about doing this on his own? I d get to a point where I did search him about his family members, and I found some of their own homes and locations that were in new york, but various places in new york. So I I don't really know much about them, and that was one avenue that I was gonna kind of go down myself and maybe bring my my mother or one of my aunts, who was a direct cousin, because I felt if I went by myself, they would be like with agri you, but I didn't
of doing that cause. I don't know I just had the feeling like I didn't want to ruin any witnesses. I wanted the circumstances under which they were spoken to this many years later, to be under better circumstances, and I couldn't I couldn't reason that it would be a good time that that, especially by myself, my family so chosen interest. But then my mother passed away, I can bring her obvious and everyone else seen kind a hesitant and, as you know, what maybe I'll just leave leave us alone. Can I had thought to myself? Is it possible his well? He might have known anything about where they would have went or where he would have went. But if he sat in that facility for five or six years, then my gut instinct is no because they would have done something before then. He wouldn't have waited to me like a new girlfriend and be like okay, let's get out, let's let the little one
and get out of here, and it's not clear whether or not Judy even knew what his past was. What avenue I am curious about is the extent his which his family was questioned at the time of his disappearance and subsequent, follow up because my family and I confirm this- my family had never been contacted ever again since nineteen seventy seven. Seventy eight around the time that the first year or two that they were looking for him. I find that really sad and tragic. I wanted to talk to his family about what they knew about his final days in new york and at the facility. and if they knew anything about heard anything from him after they disappeared together. One other avenue that I found very compelling, I guess for research lies
I also wanted to talk to, and I know this is really sensitive- his ex wife family and I found her maiden name in everything, so I was gonna start to look. On that road. Julian, is very cautious and thoughtful. In his approach he doesn't want to do anything that could potentially harm the. He's or hinder law enforcement attempts to find richard. Julian went into this feeling optimistic that he could work with long spent in share information, he was hopeful that they could help him fill in the gaps he said the case was still open as a cold case, but I don't know if that means that they were doing anything or if they have anything, I'm hoping that my early relationship with law enforcement here in the cold.
This unit in new york. I can starts a kind of pool information with them and see if we can begin to get at least anywhere. With this case, I was looking for the current call case, detective in new york. That was decided case. I know that this is a name is that this has been in the system. Since two thousand and nine I've known that in the last legislature, or so years that this been probably at least five different detectives assigned to this case, so it's been recycled pretty quickly, and so, when I called this one who had never spoken to before he's very nice, we established a pretty decent report to start with. But, as I was talking to him, you know I started to realize that he knew the case like that. He had it, but he didn't know
Like basic details that point. I really started to occur to me that between the time of her disappearance in eighteen, seventy seven and then whether or not this was reported through nay mission to two thousand and nine. Nothing was done at that point because they and even considered missing and then between then and now just talking to him, assuming that if he had a file to pull up when I was speaking to him, he would have something to say, or rather he would have taken more of it a stance of ok, give me more information and that's kind. That is a situation that I'm looking at here, which I found very distressing. You know because she went missing five years before I was born, but when I found out that this poor woman has basically for the most part that I can tell never been looked for directly to this day in That is the forty fifth anniversary of her disappearance April six. Nineteen,
seventy seven- and I don't think anyone's ever ever, really tried to look for her that much if, at all, I know, initially, they were looking for the men that disappeared with her richard, because of his. He was mandated to stay within a facility and she kind of left with him voluntarily, but he was never regarded missing, so she wasn't the focus and then, whenever they stopped looking for him, if they did, they don't think she was on the right are at all. I have spoken with the detective on the case again, but he said he would call me couple days later a couple weeks ago. So, but I wanted to give him more time, so I'm just gonna eventually call him again say hey so, what's up, do you need more information from me and see what he says cause you know. I think he was just trying to familiarize himself with the case which, to me kind of indicated that maybe there wasn't much to be familiar with.
we have spoken to Julian many times over a period of months, any continue to reach out the law enforcement to learn more about their search efforts to find Judith and apprehend richard anymore conversation Julian was made aware that the police don't really have much information about her disappearance in there and you're about what was done to find her over the past several decades. They were lying on julian to provide that information to them. This shocked endeavours data Julian, he was hoping they have something to help him with his own search julian, said earlier. That it seems like Judith is the girl that time forgot and that became more and more clear to us, as we worked on researching this case alongside julianne Julian had initially told us that he had hoped that he could work together with law enforcement so that they could compare the information that law enforcement had with what Julian has uncovered, but has become more
clear to him. Now that he is on his own with his quest for answers, I think europe is just A number sitting in name is that nobody is really nobody's really looked for part of it. I think, is that poor family moved to Kansas in may of seventy six, basically a little bit less than a year before she vanished, and because of that distance they weren't able to have that hands. On approached the case, people have just have to trust that things are going in a direction that law enforcement thinks that they should that is adequate. You have to trust. You could have no accountability. You know even said to one of my friends yesterday I said you know when you have a call kissed unit. I would think that every year or so you would have a review. So what progress have you made with this? With this case? not anywhere. Has there been any leads anything, but I dont think I think that happens for every case. I think I think maybe they focus on the one side,
seemed they just interest them more see more compelling easier to get information and the ones that are cold remained in the freezer, and I at that's why I think my cousins has been- and I think that's part of why, My family kind of just left things alone, because I think they assumed that law enforcement was looking for her for all these years Well, Julian understands why many of his family members can't bring themselves to speak about Judith therefrom. the era when these things just weren't talked about as openly as they are today. Julian understands that they don't want to reopen those old wounds, but he also If that there may be some family members who possibly know more than they fight on, there is story. That's been passed down through the family. That Judith did call em or of the family after she had disappeared with richard and expressed regret for having town with him. She said it was a mistake and wanted to come home. We can't verify that this call actually happened
It's something to consider Julian has and a lot of time attempting to dig into this case talking was remaining family members and sifting through old documents. Well he acknowledges that there are still many unknowns. He told us what he thinks could have happened to Judith after she left with richard some of my family members think it's possible. He could still be alive. I don't. I actually don't think that either of them are but the society my opinion. If you really want me to be blunt and tell you what I think happened after they left new york, I think they got on a bus or a train somewhere wherever they are If they got off things, probably either they stay in a hotel room motel. But there are funds were probably quickly decreasing and they are. We couldn't just get jobs at the start of a finger or money from anywhere. It probably ended up
some sort of altercation where he got yeah, he probably went back and psychosis got violent again. I think he probably killed her, but I also suspect that at that point I think he killed her and then himself. I would have no idea where, but wherever it was they never been out. Maybe she had decided to follow their family outer rural kansas because he could go
under the radar in that kind of rural scenario as long as if she knew as long as her family didn't know what he was capable of. I don't think personally he's living the life out anywhere because of how impaired he was. If assuming his mental health diagnoses were real. That's another thought that I've had that he might have faked insanity and psychosis at the time, which might have been easier to do back in the seventies, because he did have a motive for killing his wife and his son. It wasn't just like completely random. There was a bunch of stressors beforehand that were building up to him, murdering them and it was mainly financial. His wife had a like degenerative. She was going blind, so they had to constantly be putting out money for her treatment for her eyes and then
Their son also had some sort of permanent disability that required a lot of treatment as well, so both of them were putting on very heavy financial. I guess burden on him and his mind, because he was the only one working from what I know what he did. He worked at John F kennedy airport, doing something I wouldn't say very lucrative and the money thing just probably got to him and- and you know either he made a decision like. I can't do this anymore. This is my way how or or he did snap you know aided trigger something I did read something that indicated it
may have had, some of these issues are indicators of these of these mental health issues growing up in his teens. But I can fully corroborate that their artists, several several points at which is very clear that she would not have left she had no reason to it would not have left for this long I mean is the goal probably was so that he could avoid being locked away, and I dont know how he justified star because, like I said, I dont believe she knew about his past and seventy one, but as soon as he Never show show up at the facility and they disappeared together. The FBI appeared and said hey. This is what happened with him. when he won, and this is who she disappeared with and my family freaked out. But then you know neither of them are heard from or seen a scene again julie Has started a facebook page to aid him in his search for information, he's looking to see
with any one who knew Judith or richard his page, as called jude, and brown missing vanished with a killer, there's one in that Judith mentioned in some of our letters to family. Julian, believes must have been a close friend and he is really hoping that he can locate her. She had a good friend. Name did niece, I dont know her last name and she lived across the street from her only in the bronx for a number of years there was probably one of her closest friends growing on and I never met this woman, and out of any of my family has been in contact with this woman for all these decades. I wouldn't know she was life or not, but I'm trying to find her, because her friend might have more. She might have confided in Denise more about richard or may beach. That was the last person. She spoke to there's just so much there and she even mentions her friend Denise, but at this time, because the niece was away at college, so she
I dunno where she was going, but she was away for most of the time that this was going on with richard, but at during the summertime in the winter breaks. That's when Denise will be back in town. I think they reconnect for a little bit where I'm at now. I I really just want to try to just start that whole rolling of the the avalanche or where it's kind of like getting the word out there and getting. name out there because her name is never been up here. So what happened to Judith brown after she left with richard rising burke in april of nineteen? Seventy seven did the two really fall, love and run off together. Is it possible that they lived off the radar for forty five years. you changed their identities or fled the country. If so, why his Judith never contacted her family biology, They seem to be close and she frequently kept in contact with them. This question: of why Judith never reached out. Could she have believed that
It would have been in trouble if she were to come forward because she aided richard in his escape or did it story go in a completely different direction. We know that it was experiencing her own mental health struggles at the time did see this very on vulnerable women and used her as a tool to help him escape. Did he kill Judith. after he no longer had a use for her after he escaped and was free and clear, as he had done to his own wife and son. We don't know answers to these questions, but Julian is determined to keep looking. If you have The information regarding the disappearance of Judith brown, please p d missing persons swat at two one to six: nine for seven, seven, eight one, as I mentioned Julian is looking for anyone who knew Judith or richard. You can find his page for Judith on facebook.
Judith an brown missing vanished with a killer. I really do think that if from the beginning in the seventies, if they regarded hers and missing persons and help try to look for her, it might have went a little bit different. The resolution would have been different, but they might have had more information and I'm sure they did eat their due diligence
the I in terms of trying to find him, but I don't know what that even produced. It always surprise me that she never got in touch with anybody. I find that hard to believe that her father died. My parents died and her sister's dead. Now and nothing I mean you would think somebody would keep in touch even from a distance, the
brings us to the end of episode. Three hundred and forty two I'd like to thank julian marine for speaking with us. No thanks to erika host of apex. In view of this, I cast for voicing Judas letters for us also especial thanks to analyse up from just the teamsters pot castro voicing dandy flatter if you go missing loved one that you like to have featured on the show, there's a case submission form at the vanished, podcast dot com. If you like to join in on the discussion, there's a page in discussion group on facebook, I'm on twitter at the vanished pod and also an instrument if you enjoy the show subscribe now, leave a five store view and apple had cast spotify reverie listening right now. Do you wanna help support the shock therapy
well things that you can do when we can help the vanished is by supporting our sponsors. You can find links and promo codes in the episode that another way to support the show is by contributing on patriots we can get early and ad free episodes be sure to tune in next week, we'll be covering a case from texas. Thanks for listening, the. The enterprise is ready when you are through the are we there yet and look at that? The anticipation and conversations in a vehicle that came from enterprise with the peace of mind, of our complete clean pledge, curbside, rentals and low touch transactions, plus so many vehicles of all kinds. So you can relax and focus on the moment. All of them enterprise connecting you to other places, you love
Transcript generated on 2022-11-22.