The Verge's Nilay Patel, David Pierce, and Alex Cranz discuss Dish Network's 5G network (@11:07), Google's LaMDA AI (@ 32:32), Apple streaming Major League Soccer (@47:38), and more.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The anna verge cast. Some big news from the verge dot com will also get into a possible fourth: u s cell phone carrier, an update on sports streaming and some sad news on Eli's beloved mustang maki. That's all coming up right after this, this episode of the verge cast is brought to you by future.
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I welcome the recast flagship podcast of cloud native five. I don't want to spend better rise software bustle
I feel like, if you're new, to the show- and you hear me do that every week you're like who are these people, why do they need the flagship podcast, the most boring responsible anyway,
before any life I'm here do tierces here I am do appears. I
your friends who always tell you which streaming service define sports on, even though I usually don't know either. Is it the pirate bay
Listen. Is there a sketchy russian website? That's in my bookmarks. Yes, there is, but we don't have to talk about alex transit here. Yeah am I'm your friend who will tell you to just get plex and bittorrent
it's just, do it just pirate fully pirate that can't be held legally responsible for their ate one of my favorite,
moments from like this starling review cycle? Was we do agree to continue in all of our view, aids or like hears all the agreements and like yours what they had set a hugely important terms, and so yeah you're, honest semester.
Oh yeah. So he pointed out the starlink agreements have exactly the same restrictions as like verizon or comcast, whatever they can inspect your package that can block you for copyright infringement. They can throttle you if you use too much and like the
the starlight community had not like grappled with this fact.
and so there is thus entirely. Oh, my god. He lied to us and then like a lot of people like it's, the same is rising and rising, doesn't cares and privacy
like sine wave of like? Will? They have to put it in for the lawyers and it's like other
I sp are all the same haha at some point. If you do enough copyright infringement, your eyes fee is going to get a letter and you're going to get like what did they think would happen with like elon would protect them. It's deeply unclear
this is the fastest we ve ever got from. Iran is an hour on our list, inevitably ilan, maybe in the history books, as we have no european topics today now, but here we are, I will
mr free speech himself endorsed the santas for president
that dissenters is like MR governments reach regulation. So I hope they have a conversation like
I feel like this governor, who writes state level speech regulations that courts of appeals are like yeah. First amendment pro yeah, we'll see maybe they're going to have coffee the cognitive dissonance of those people have of the we have
preserve free speech with many many many many laws about preserving free speech is just really spectacular. Yeah we'll leave this for another time, but I will tell you that we are working on a big feature about like everything on the internet speech to the appetite for speech. Regulations has dramatically increased how europe is like a you know, teenage free speech maximalist an hour and it's like, but what, if we did, what? If we did speech regulations- and it's like- I don't what are you talking about? I thought I thought that was against rules when you're in like high school and you're you're, like yeah anything's free speech, I will protect all free speech like I don't want to go back,
at that place, but I feel like I'm going to be forced there and there's a lot of cartoons. I don't want to protect. Welcome come come with me to the first men and maximalism, and therefore it anyhow that's all
It's all for later, we are satisfied with this week. There's much mixing.
Product justifies is quite likely that a recent
Google, who think stood
machines are alive and need lawyers keep the fact that you went right away to the needs. A lawyer is very good. David want socket sportsmen
around, but we ought to start with some very exciting verge news to pieces of excitement. Version is, as you have heard in many disclosures, with tasks
yours we may we manufacture and the trailer
in your watch, are now. Are you to jail,
wild to see our stuffed it promoted by netflix itself. There's a disclosure. By the way we made an affliction
your honour, its annexes channels, can actually go black book market in netflix itself. Right now, it's called the future of.
And the first six up says a command joint wafers, its next tuesday, and then we get a second match the next week june. Twenty eighth
two questions about this, that I've been meaning to ask you like, since I started working at the verge again that now you get to answer on a microphone, one of which is. Why did this take three
years. I remember talking you so long ago. We were like we're making an affliction, it's gonna be so sick. It's like probably
haven't really soon, and that was that was several lifetimes ago. You know what
one is that there is a global pandemic that happened right in the middle of production. We just stopped making Michel for a minute
It was quite challenging. The other kind of more interesting answer is that we have this great pitch.
Nori Donovan in Rdp and chad. Mom are how to watch me, see it as dessert tea stuff in mexico and, like all these, we all went to netflix and sat in the room and we pitched a show with our partners from twenty one laps, twenty laps, but it was very fancy. They made things like arrival and stranger things. Sorta like we're gonna make a documentary about the future and we're off
fired up about it, and I did a bunch of neil I planting in reading, and then we started trying to make a thing that was document or at the future very quickly.
Guys like what we're making is like hard cipher, rightly
it's the way or show restructured as we take a small thing. So it's how the future of and one of the episodes is, the future of cheeseburgers.
In an art like the verge thesis, as you got a little story into a huge story. So if you're gonna predict the future of cheeseburgers, actually talking about the future of the meat supply, the future of where the food will come from, like willoughby, sustain all the stuff and said he has, will pull the thread on now to like what it will be like in our lifetimes, then we'll go to like the near future, which he could think of is like your children's lifetimes and then we'll go predict one hundred years from now. The far future there'll be multiple parents
in the shifts in what what's the wildest version of the cheeseburger that we can predict. I won't give it away, but like so that episode we had to predict like a wild future
that aside, like is the wild future and oliver episodes the same future. So if you ve got the future
with cheeseburger in this episode. When you do, we have another one, it's the future of dogs. Is it the same future that we set out you're like predicting this, like wildly, are doing this huge world building exercise. It's like this is a very complicated,
quickly and we wanted to make it great. So we brought in rose elif who's. The host of a great podcast called flash forward, and we basically started writing sci fi that was really rooted in journalism like we don't want to do hyper stuff, but we not going to find people who are actually building these things. We want to make it popular so that just like, there is a big moment where we just turned the show and it was the pandemic. So all of this was happening remotely
I took a long time, but I think we made something really cool and like people are like shows like this get dated. I can't wait for five years from now when it's memes about how wrong the show was, and as a cue to understand like that is success rate,
I wonder if that's the greatest success that you could offer for a show. That's about the future is like twenty years from now, you're like that's what they thought it was going to be and that's what we all thought it was something else since like yeah, that's if we can get to that place where we're anchoring people and like what it could be and that's the framework that people think about like that's huge success. The other thing that we really wanted to do was not make black mirror. I think it's important right and it's like pretty nihilistic time in science and technology yeah. I really wanted to be like here's, some visions of the future that are good, that you can think about that, like the people building, the staff are starting. The companies are like thinking about these optimistic visions of the future. Instead of these, like purely nihilistic, like realities- and the main thing for me is
introducing these protections. Like oh shit, we just like casually predicted a worldwide facial recognition, says we shouldn't. Do he just wrote it down on a piece of paper, like obviously that's coming, I gave a lot of really pedantic notes on the show,
like the anytime anyone like pitch like some wirelessly traffic, is it bluetooth
we're not sure doesn't work. You don't do that. So this is the
I realized netflix curtly,
you'll see in the show like we we had like to do some of the stuff you have to make some predictions and, like you know the questions that I think we would ask the audience with the virtuous vasque
there, and we want to make sure that like if you predict that
totally wireless surveillance state, like you actually can predict that's going to work all the time because we just don't want to allow people like the show we've had some other news David. This is your news. This show last week was episode. Five hundred now does like reinvent
the time yet so were diverge gases now officially becoming a twice a week podcast
Eventually, where we're going to have some?
do these. Many serious periodically will have some three times a week upset, but it's gonna be.
Isn't fridays. Every week, we're gonna have like more verge people on board and talk that more stuff alex, and I recorded a segment recently where we just basically obsessive
yank for what felt like six and a half hours, and it was excellent. I feel like Liam had to like cut us off. He had to be like. No, you, you can't talk any more about it, wrap it up, yeah my my first pitch for the show will basically they they called
and we're like David Nila is, is steadily ruining the verse gas. Can you summon and try to accept that was my pitch to David, I'm screwing
so yeah we're just we're. Gonna like do more
try new stuff and the like this epoch? This thing we do every week. The three of us is like fun and wonderful, and I don't want to change its work and have this other absurd,
We can like keep doing some of this stuff, but also bring some new people in and try some new stuff and tell different kinds of stories, and it's going to be it's going to be awesome and weird and different, and I'm really
The one thing I'll say it like our joke is that it's the flagship podcast of the virgin media. Our team is huge, it's one hundred people, so I I'm excited for a second episode. It's like we get to show off more work from across the verge team and across what they're doing without trying to shoehorn everybody into this one. I, like more episodes is more space for people to participate. I think it's musical that excited about it. We also, I will say this- we're going to have some new art and the fee. All that's coming,
from its after five hundred you gotta, operate, oh yeah. I cannot wait for people to see this art. I think, if you're a long time for a chess listener, this art will reward you
it might confuse everybody else, but it will reward and very specific ways
that's enough news about us, but so
but the only news that matters yes in the entire tech industry this week only thing which is the launch of dish networks. While the launch making very sarcastic eloquence here the launch of dish networks, product jennifer gives us where
again, so during the trump administration t mobile wanted to buy sprint. This is a real thing that happened
You might remember that t mobile as it currently exists is existence powerful form because the government blocked eighteen tee from buying
can t mobile gray, and there are some money there change hands and there is a break up fee, but that's won t mobile became t mobile. They fired on the executives and made it sock they brought in our boy. John ledger.
he was like well eighteenth, he wasn't allowed to buy us now we're just going to go hard at a t and t he just an
reared oliver, everybody uncared for doing so.
seriously team. I will now so my sprint. You would think they would block the deal, but the trump administration in the trunk deirdre in particular, decided not to block a deal kiss capitalism
who knows, but the head of the anti trust division. Mcconville Rahim brokered this crazy deal which,
dr administration, the charm administration and officials like to do things that warrant technically
so he got in the middle he's emailing all the is the times as a great, and he brokered this
by which t mobile was allowed to buy sprint, but they had to support dish network
in launching a new five g network and team. I was forced to give access to its our two dish network,
all this stuff. There was eventually a lawsuit to block the steel. The judge- and I was here- and I wrote this up-
basically just ferociously dunked, on how hard sprint sucked over and over again and at the end,
I get. Who gives a shit? What t mobile by he is like sprint makes mistakes
it's too hard. Have you heard of Y max that was garbage like just give this. Have my psyche? Remember the htc chacha get that happy here, he's like who gives a shit like. So this is a big problem, because every country that has gone from four national carriers to three prices have shut up service gets worse. So we need to have four carriers, and this is like what the all the studies say. So, dear jay brokers, a skilled deal to let t mobile by sprint go taking us to three carey
we have now had for five years and creating a new network of dish tee
will immediately renege on their obligations to give dish,
the network to sign a new deal with eighty in tee, which is very funny like
forces. Anything is whatever it's like. This is.
immediately forgotten that this whole deal was brokered.
Yesterday night was dishes deadline to launch a five g network
that covers twenty percent of the american population or pay billions of dollars in fines? I think dish remembered this yesterday yesterday afternoon is
They remember this and I think they might have a number two, because cnet jump the gun.
the dish blows at peace and publish the dish blows at peace. Fourteen hours early now,
so they're, like dish fluids deadline, which today
just as I as a called shot is, is not the worst one, no harm
I'll see that that that's a thing that happened in a bunch of smart,
a common border sociologist right, having seen that's early that deadlines night and then the do.
network project justifies this website just started populating. It's like
four anxiously like went from nothing which we have laughed about to something, and it's like owed it to see what might so? I don't you know how to describe how they're talking about this. It's product unifies. The logo has a five instead of an hour.
Because five g, you can go to the website, which is genesis, five g dot com to sign up, we'll talk about that, a minute, their press release
now this morning, not yesterday, but this morning came out.
It says. As of june fourteenth, which is the day before the presley's. Cannot you think they would have like made the deadline earlier,
Whatever, as of june, fourteenth dishes offering five g broadband service over twenty percent of the us population, that is in like the weirdest collection of cities, it's an incredible collection, yeah like we, we all recognize cities, but they're, not the cities, you ever think would be the cities like new york's, not there. We spent a bunch of time yesterday trying to figure out if there's like a rhyme or reason to which cities they are, and the answer I think is just no it's just like not cities, you would think of like we were trying hard. We were like we had. Unlike our tinfoil hats, we were like okay. Well, it's gotta be because, like they all have a tower of this size,
or maybe like under use services, and that's what they're doing no it's just they like through darts at aboard somebody in the website. First of all I want,
the first thing you see on the product justifies this website are the words let there be lighted which is incredible, known us, which has correctly it's it's perfect
says. Project genesis has launched the nations first cloud native smart, five g trademark network that,
changes the way we connect and you got a list of city
First, the cities are its stall, I'm sure dixon carry north carolina, las vegas. That's it to Missus Houston,
Unless mechanics will virginia rapid city. South dakota
just serve minnesota like it. Just like all over the place. A lot of spring fails springfield very well represented fonda.
Wisconsin I've been there, it's a lovely, wa Y, like so very unclear. Why this list of cities? We have not yet done the math to figure out if the population of the cities, actually
It was time for certain population. We also don't know if it's actually dishes network that is covering these cities, because I have this deal. They didn t and t and the pr
is like it's a first of a kind networks supported by a network of networks.
that seamlessly switches between networks providing dish, customers have worse data service for multiple networks at any location, and this is important at any point in time. What,
give rise. Not she did not provide this service at any point at this solution takes advantage of eastern and multi centre knowledge. So it sounds like that
watch the networking, some cities there switch
you off to t sometimes unclear when and are using it with ease hymns like multiple isa jennifer,
but, where the only found that support is a sampling elsie s, twenty two right, but you can't bring your own. You have to buy a new one right
you said I wanted, this is gonna, be configured in LAS vegas
I can get a motorola edge plus in a promise plus what will come? Will it'll come to more cities, soon, big reason to adapt? It's not like a tourism play for las Vegas. I kind of like that. As as a strategy like move to las vegas, you can get our fancy phone. Look, I like more power to them, but this thing is not large, like mitchell clark lives in spokane, washington on our staff, and he tried to buy. One actually were added in this. Originally hilarious disaster like he and I were both cause. My sister lives in fort worth, which is one of the cities, and so I was trying to order it like inflict on her as a surprise that I know she would hate and he was trying to order it because we asked him to do it because it's his job and so we're both furiously trying to get it, and neither one of us can and I'm like. Well, it's the end of the day you keep going, but y'all I'm going to I'm going to take a break for a little that, and so he goes. He finally finally gets the thing like he he gets through the order. Then it's like well, you can't
actually fill out. The second address field cause. I guess he lives in like a condo or something, and he needs that second address field to make sure the phone gets to the right place and it was actually set as read only like in the website, so he cannot actually type anything in there
on it. Dish never saw the scene at peace in Iraq, oh shit, and they went sign of risk airspace account gonna hit, sent, we gotta get we're gonna, do it.
It. We gotta get this out there, so that people think that we ve actually set at twenty percent of pop
Alicia, Charlie ergen, the chairman of dish network was like who has the shopify password? Let's get this cart up and going and like it like that, the website is super super simple, poorly designed it kept hanging yesterday. I finally just now was able to like get through and order mister phone I'm still debating if I'm going to inflict it on her, but he finally gets through by putting his wife's work address. That was the only way he could order. It was with his wife's work address, so he finally gets the
apple immediately rejects the charge is apple creditworthy. I guess he was using his apple credit card. Apples like you, don't want to do that. They thought there has been so we
fact you're trying to buy a motorola edge. Let's just take a beat, let's not jump the gun here it rejects it. He manages to get it approved and they send him a big note and they say here's your pass code, here's how to log in your phones on it's way and everything was in black text on a black field. So he can't actually see the passcode or any of the things he needs to do
and so I was like this crying laughing last night about it until you they rush inside last minute to say, was launched, is always dude literally millions upon millions of dollars and finds you, but when Mitchell gets the phone he will
have access to quoting now
a data centric, five g network architecture that opens the door to game, changing innovation on a scalable api first develop reply.
The cloud based our coloma connectivity and drive solutions that will change any market. Its deeply unclear perfect. So here is the problem
here's like it's true. They got out the network pretty fast, not in time a professed. Aren't we
say they got it up, can't stop it's there. We don't know that because we can't test it because you still have to get your phone yeah. We don't know if it works. So the promise here and there
difference, but right now, like eighteen verizon, their networks run unlike proprietary solution and peace. In that
sat called the ran the radioactive network, you by all that from siemens or by all of it from la waterway. You dont want about unity in
It said you can't buy all of it from all any more mortgage company that exclusion on this whole thing, so the push was for something called open, ran where you can buy devices from multiple vendors and set up a network like that. So, like dish network, is pushing into this as hard as it can as fast it can before the fcc has even ready, for it
The assistant to the governments like we ve, set up a commission to study the feasibility
further studies and around that's where their dishes doing it. So here's your list of partners in this is why
You declared they start its eight. I'm! U, Cisco! Com, scope, del fujitsu, intel, jamie mountaineer, nokia, oracle, power networks, clock I'm samsung.
and where we are the only major network in the world built primarily with american vendors. This is
but the cells to regulators yeah right. We like pushed really far ahead into this.
We ve got always american companies into it which, by the way, if you to say I'm sure that opened the door to you, unlike that bastard huawei, what right
there's no consumer benefit as yet,
Maybe they concern about. If it is, the price of the network, equipment will go down in that will eventually pass on to you in terms of cheaper services. We need to get,
a smug factor where you can be like really smug like yeah I've got around
this will find a way to put that in the status bar on your phone for sure. I think organizing this fascinating idea like what
few de proprietary how the network's work,
so many more vendors can compete in like maybe that reduce the prices of the equipment.
And maybe that will mean the networks are bigger and service rural areas, a cheaper cost. That's what you always hear about it's too expensive, there's, not the people that, like that, would all be great. I mean you're describing like the internet right like that's. That's essentially the the idea here is to make that stuff, transferable and, like multi, operable in a way that the internet is like. You can just
stuff on servers, lots of places and carrier networks have not traditionally work that way, but now there
the legs most these two things together into something that is that
and there's another. The government has a big there
interest in making sure that the provider
of networking equipment. Particular mobile networking equipment are not just to european firms in walla, which is kind of where the market is now right. So, like yeah, there's a lot of interest in this. What if you make it easier to compete at all
I'm just saying dish has been hoarding spectrum. For years they built a network in just a bunch of a grab bag of cities using grab bag of technologies,
and we have no idea to start work. Actually works only supports one found that
and ass. We especially provision to also simultaneously work and eightys network.
I think this is all had fake and at the end of it, they're going to shut it down and sell the spectrum and eighteen verizon. That's just my feeling about this. Do you think that's before or after they get fined for not actually having a real vial?
network by the due date, the fcc with airbus, whereas a democratic republic in commission is like
They can't even measure were broadband. Is in this country like their bad. It just like maps like do have broadband like sends the ssc into a tis a
we can ensure traffic certainly is very hard.
Can they measure whether actually twenty percent of europe's population is served by this illusory network that block even ship to address, as in every city like
I don't know I'm just like this. I'm saying the whole point of letting t mobile by sprint was to create this other network and now we're here
we're supposed to have for national carriers that compete ferocious
for your money. They offer you fast.
speeds and lower prices. This one, this big bat on having a fourth network, is paying out so far in a network that very few people have used in las vegas unimpaired motor illegible.
That's. Why and then a launch of this network like dish there's not even like a contact
like email address on the bottom of this press release? We ask them. Questions about it that they will not answer questions about it. Yeah like this is a company
and know they talk about compliance. Cars like car companies sell cars like big trucks that get bad gas mileage and they sell like one crap car that gets like great gas mileage and it's a compliance car to even out the average leap like this is a compliance network and
I just I'm dying to see like a dish, wants to come on dakota and tell me how they built it and talk about around like I'm open for it. They just won't this because they didn't like they can't. They can't come and talk about things they haven't taught. I mean theoretically, they did build this network, but everything about it feels kind of like they built something in las vegas and then are just like hoping. Nobody notices that they haven't built in other places like
fast. I think it really depends on how fast these phones give out. Tickers customers will Mitchell's wanted. One are new, seniority is utter Nathan, Edwards has ordered one policy
you might be. The only took us now, half of digital network will see. I'm very curious, I'm totally obsessed with the story in a way that I feel it. No one else. I've very upset
you're gonna get exclusive enough to use for being on the network? Dont forget about the exclusive enough to use away,
I forgot about this. You have to use this app and it like gamify is everything if you go and you look at the the f a q on their website. It's all about it, all! Just redirects you to the app it's like. Well, just just just go check out the app. The funny thing about this to me is, I feel, like I feel like. I would understand it completely if you just like
placed all ran with blocked in, and it was like. We ve just seen this exact thing, a million times talking about like web three in the blockchain, and they think we just did a thing but but open and blow
Jane and instead, dishes like we are out installing networking equipment- and it's like, I know you made it harder and
What I will say on a pricing side is possible, are so much money
the gaseous retailer scientists for four hundred bucks cheap. Although at this point
whence you lifecycle at this kind like
just a little lower than where'd. You get get it in this point and I think the samson flagship by cycle, like you, walk into an eighteen,
soil is like throw one. Are you in
unlimited services, only thirty bucks a month now is that profitable losing money from ultimately, who knows,
right will that low price persuade eighteen team
rising to learn about units to stay
need to sign up customers for this to work
and like are they gonna? Do any marketing
and when they do the marketing and there like running the ads on mainstream television, and I like it's, a smart five g virtually around that network. Will that matter to anyone? One could argue
free entities very early on that matter, genuinely
it seems like they don't know what it's for. If they really wanted this to be a viable network and not just like compliance thing to get out of having to pay billions in fines, wouldn't they have already been promoting it and saying hey, get ready, get excited, come order that, since that they're just like are here to buy, don't try to order
it'll. Take you the entire night to do it. If they really care, they would have hired the. Can you hear me now guy? Yes, he would have, he would have entered his third carrier relationship things up and it would have an incredible dishes,
advertising satellite dishes more ferociously conference. I think they're nouveau network. It is ready.
today it would have been ready, ass, like there's no of
no launch of that there is no outgoing pr like they just fired the thing I offer the deadline plasma and which I think is very us. That's it will see where we ve bought the funds were cost
I am open, if you're a dish network executive in europe for some, but
thirty, nine minutes into this and you're still with real. I reach out. I don't we
Talk to you, you can come on decoder, it's safe space to think fluency. But let me now where's where special for competitive networks
The trump administration, the
insane deal predicated on this distant worded exist.
And I know people in timor was great and true to mobiles great in the spread of spectrum is help them, but the competition like the prices from the big to have not gone down. They are not feeling that competitive pressure and that's the thing actually measure, and so you need for networks have you
The budget and that work, this constantly keeping everybody honest instead of the three now we have three premium networks, basically right: anti mobile used to be that one right like t mobile was the one that that forced everybody to make moves and then basically bought its way into being a giant on par with the other giants, and now there
isn't that fourth thing. Yet again, I did a virtuous interview with kindness, whole tongue sort on a couple years ago, and he is
like all the data as we from forty three bad things happen: prices my in every country in the world, so we will see.
again we're open to it we're going to cover it. We are going over cover. We're gonna make this a story, because I think it's important.
It's not everyday of national mobile network launches united states or launches big big, close watch
the underlying technologies super interesting right, like there's a lot here, but then there's also just is this all just a headache:
and also I still have no idea what a smart api driven network is.
We will try to explain it to me. It is the exact same pitch.
Our finally networks there, like this one
the internet of things and self driving cars and robot and the like. But that's where civil servant know so we'll see maybe orange the future. Alright, that is enough ranting about jennifer
This, please, you know anything about it,
are we ever they break when you come back we're talking about whether girls lambda system is actually nay Ivan insular wherever you know,
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and we're back very strange story over the weekend from Natasha tq at the washington post. Who is a great reporter says once every quarter? It's true, I don't even know how to begin explaining this go ahead. Alex so lambda is a an ai that Google has that it's meant to like replicate human speech and one of the guys who is like hire to test these, as has been testing it, his name's blake le moyne and all of his communication with it got him to the point where he said. You know what this is not just a very sophisticated chat bot. This is an artificial intelligence that is on par with essential,
being and it needs rights and we need to stop. We need to protect it and also like sentient ai. Is here. That's like the that's a big overview of this, and then Google says no disagree with you and I fire him yeah and then Google was like. We disagree with you. Also in your effort to prove this. You released a bunch of like information that you're not allowed to release, so we are firing you for that. Not for saying ai are sentient, but for yep,
violating as india basic, so multiple things to unpack. Your short assertion is first saw boy. Columbine believes is a pre.
He's a very religious? They described him as a mystic christian church
using arenas. Writing you'll see that affects many, his the ways and second, the motion.
The same atlanta is. It is not a single a chap you ve, seen landed demonstrated. If you watched a google, I write
This is sundar being like, and then I had a conversation with essay. I that's pretending to be a mountain right like that's lambda, that's lambda,
and the idea is its and it's a I system that generates chat bots to take on personalities. So lambda itself has not the chopper degenerates into a trap arts, and it is
doing that by ingesting all the text to confine the internet and then pattern matching it rang. The exotic
examples that I always hilarious. It's like! What's it like to be an orange and insight,
juicy we're going up. What's going on
sooner julian earth, like we talked about it with an anniversary duel,
of that, I read its competency in language modeling, that's how it shows off its system. So blake is,
another researcher, Google and he volunteers, to figure out of flanders, racist
is a good thing that we have all learned over time. That is probably true.
Your training it on internet information, it's gonna, be racist.
If you travel the internet for your personality, you come out
probably a little more racist, so he's interviewing misses the weird thing he really see released an interview with lambda a heavily edited interview.
heavily at it. We should just say like at the top and when James Vincent, who is able to join us today was like very
so she music, it's important that we say this is complete. Bullshit right and like everyone is like reacted to this like the ay. I research means I was all bullshit. None of us make any sense like
but what he released approve is an interview.
The word edited. Oliver yeah worries,
acting with a chat bought the lander generated.
And he's asking questions, and so many questions are like. What sort of feelings do you have in mind is like
I feel pleasure. Joy, love sadness, suppression, contentment, anger and many others, and then he is like
sort of things make. You feel pleasure, joy and landed.
Spending time with friends and family and happy and uplifting company, also helping others and making others had. Ah, I just want you to just like thing: I've ever seen
Wild thing for computers- and I understand, like many people- would like believe time landed, doesn't have a family precisely as exactly this gotta does it have friends like that? Are they other?
bots, and we should say this- is one of the things that google and others actually warn about-
These ay I systems is that they are remarkably good. It saying things that are like successful answers that are just flatly wrong like I was just goofing around us
deputy earlier today and you you ask what time is it, which is a very straightforward question, and it is very matter of fact: they says it's two fifteen p m and like it
and and nowhere in the world visit to Fatima, but these things are like this is what they do right like. I had somebody earlier, compare it to a politician right where the goal is not to tell the truth. The goal is to give
something that, like reads as a successful answer to the question, and so this computer telling you it has a family is not true, but it is
is a successful answer in that it answers the question and that's like that's the thing that land
raising the good at and it's the reason it so easy to treat people, because it sounds like a reasonable answer. So people believe that its true, which is like a weird head space, to be a kind of I'm google for this and a lot of these other companies that have been calling these spots and these neural networks a eyes because, most of us, when we hear I hear artificial intelligence, we think me no two thousand one space odyssey. We think these big, actual, genuine, theoretically artificial intelligence at our century and what these botz are in. These neuro networks are just really good at pattern. Recognition through just really really good. At that one thing they can recognize patterns really really well and replicate. Those patterns were seeing that would like the dolly slowly getting smarter and creating less hell scape every time you look on twitter and we're seeing that with like mina lambda. This conversation with this by really really good at recognising the patterns and responding to them as they think they should they should, but these aren't artificial intelligence is rightly.
They're they're, not they're, not how we have always what we've always thought of as ai, and I think you have a lot of people who, like watch a lot of t v, watch a lot of movies and they're like yeah, that's a I and they see this and they're like oh yeah. That sounds like a I and they don't they miss that big gap where it's like. Actually, these are fundamentally different things. We just use the exact same word for them yeah, so one of the things that's particularly interesting about this happening at google-
in that context, is Google knows that this pattern?
is convincing in it. That is dangerous
and the reason we know the google knows this- is they have this group called the risk
I support team and you might this name be familiar. Timid debris is a researcher, their wrote, a paper called on the danger.
of stochastic parrots. Can language models be too big? Google refuse to publish the paper and that eventually led to tim nets. Ouster she has been a huge burden,
The company ever since, like their own teams, are trying to publish work, that's like
These models are too convincing. Without any checks, people will start to believe in them because we don't have any controls and how believable they are, and let now here here you go, you have it not to do media criticism
I've read this are like Google researcher say the I s feelings down here and as that is not true like nothing in this indicates that you have feelings. Were you have? Is this extremely persuasive pattern matching that you know heat again?
take the entire corpus of english text in the world, and then you said, a I'd, you have feelings were
there's a lot of english text in the world about whether it has and about what it means to have feelings tat. So I
had this data set of like what would it be like to talk to computer, thus feelings? And in that way I can just like generate a pattern that looks like
I think I was reading a life remain. I've been reading about this. A lot are we
Emily bender, whose actually quoted in the washing posters she's a professor at the university of washington, I think, wrote a great twitter
After all, this came out basically saying that a big part of the problem here is: we don't have definitions for any of this stuff like what what does sentient mean in this like? What are we even what it? What does? Even the goalposts
how do we measure it and how would we know if a computer had feelings, because what would that mean what without look like and it just like? We talk about all these things in these very human ways, despite the fact that, like
It's actually probably the wrong way to talk about computers, and also we don't you
necessarily like agree on the thing that were actually talking about, and so you end up in a space where it's like to ask of a computer
The feelings is is just like a basically nonsensical question and it becomes very hard to have any kind of like reasonable conversation about, because no one is on the same page about any of this, just weird understanding that we we keep trying to kind of humanize these devices and they're, not human, and they don't function like humans and their thought processes are not like humans. They are very they. They think in binary right like like they, they think totally totally different and we're basically like forcing these alien concepts onto these devices and they'd, be like oh wow, it's sentient, that's so cool
It's not it's in no way such like, it has zero self awareness. It's just very good at parenting of the main things interesting to me as again, it's lambda is not the generated. A chat bot that took on the personality of a sentient ai, which is yeah you could make it generate a chap, ought to take some of the personality,
on Sunday. I I'm sure, there's lots people in the car screaming that we should be talking to the turing test, the turing test rate famously and there's lots of variations out, but abstractly. It's you talk to a person. You talk to a computer. If you can't tell the computer, apart from the person the computer, successful
just depends how gullible you are like a bad test, but also does
in the computer as sentient it just doesn't there yet the turing test measures one very specific thing, which is its ability to pass the turing test. It's like the usa, tease right like when you take their cities. It determines how good you are
in the sh ts and nothing else I was great at taking the city. Is I just wanna throw that out there and rock tsh is put like the extent to which we, as
like the observers of these things will will go.
out of our way to read, meaning in two texts he's just insane and it's like that.
I think the turing test is like less and less useful, because as long as it's good enough, like we'll, do the rest of the work to make it human- and we will just like imbue this text with meaning and reality that doesn't exist in a way that, like the other thing, that's been floating around for the last couple weeks, is
is dolly this like image, generating a I which is wonderful and fascinating, and it is the exact opposite right. Like you look at these images, you can instantly tell the ring
It are generated because even those that are amazing, they had these acts,
the things that are wrong, and we have this like incredible: visual ability to just spot something that feels wrong. Even anything that is like incredibly cleverly well put together and we do the exact opposite with texts where it's like
If you look at it and it's like oh, this, strangeness of the grammar must be deliberate. That must mean that it's just the computers, bad at writing, like that's, not yeah, and I think we just we give these things such benefit of the doubt on all these things, and it's like it. What we've learned is that these large language models make them pretty good at communicating reasonably effectively and like we as the recipient will do so much work to get at the rest of the way. I thought it was interesting that a lot of the ai researchers are upset with this and they're not upset with it, because, like this guy thinks this they're like alright. That's your opinion. It's a bad one, but it's yours! That's your opinion, man, but it's stupid, but they're really upset because they feel it's a mta major derailing from the actual ethical concerns about the development of these things. Right, like like this guy saying, oh we've got to be concerned about like. Are we creating sentient creatures and then trapping them in computers and they're like no we're, not we're so far away from that ever happening? That, like we, don't even have to have
those concerns right now. We need to be concerned about like. Are we using really bad text to train these models and making them like perpetuating violence, those the microsoft one that was just like immediately racist estate?
It just turned out. It was immediately like bleep lots of lots of bleeps in the same way that that bought the other relatively recently, the guy went and trained a bot on like four chan, and then it immediately was like I'm going to say all the bad things from four chan, and his like will is that ethical to create that bot and release it into the world, like that's a real ethics question that like has like actual real world implicate
since today, whereas is the robot censure? No, it's so far away from that we are wearin decades from censure, robots, I'm sorry to everybody who really wants them.
Two. There is essentially about that's like on their way to europe. Being like, I gotta, find grounds. If I get murdered it's because
must have gauge its engines, get some mps
there's a terminator genesis, europe that we need to make right at this moment that I can't quite put together like
the last hour, more lives, is really up to one firmly reject. This is ok can't get their sleeves tweeted us. If you know what is its fleets,
red and ashes peace unopposed. We ve got some coverage casey doing it ran up in platform her his lot out their interests
This is very like the news that think Natasha he's come out
some like sunday night, and it is
It's been a news like everyone knows. The answer, which is the thing, is not sentient, but then all the questions are fascinating and I think Natasha did a great job and a piece. Alright we're going to get off the century the eyes to come back. We're gonna talk about, while David's going to talk about soccer streaming on apple tv's. That's that's my freedom square back
This episode is brought to you by eighty anti eighty anti,
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karabakh, lots of sport streaming news this week. Can I anderson and point this out in zambia files? In other words, a huge worries me
It's like losing his mind if you notice the finals are not in four k: twenty twenty two! Oh it's it's it's awful! It's not in four k. They can't keep it
streaming at any kind of high definition, I switch between like three different apps every time I want to watch a game. It's not good times. I I do sports is bad, and so is tv is my takeaway from the event was, but Steph curry's great. So it's fine. Why is a video game of sports higher definition
actual sports, we have european centre and ever like the premier league is in for k ever since nineteen. Eighty five, it's
The united states is broken
sporting events will have like spots where they'll do it and they argued very proud
themselves every time anything is in for K and its forky from like why my camera,
in a corner of the amazon for one drive of the whole season,
no like look what we can do and I think water she did that all the time you expect spills miles. I also files are presented by youtube tv, which is very like funny. Also that carried out you, my favorite part of files. Besides about yet another graters devil sponsorships or again sports, so there's a coin base logo on the basis of all the hoops. Unlike our view, penitentiary, scripture and now,
when this is like all that money wasn't well spent, whose there's gonna start slowly tipping over over the course of the next year, and I will get going missing of anybody to notice this that, when mrs horizontally in the base, but then vertically up the side of the hoop, it just says, nba app and like white light hurts, I think, did did that work for one per
sweden has a one percent men like I want. If the india has an app and they see it
it is not a logo, it's not design, it's just the words n b, a api, and I just like did that convert one person into death,
which is sufficient advertise it's very good, but there are still exports trimming news to yes. So far,
Time did wherein right now. Is that, like almost every sports league, not every but many sports things have their tv rights coming up up some time?
the next couple of years, including the nfl which is like the crown jewel of the television industry. But what happened this week was that
apple assigned to deal with major league soccer? For I think ten years and it's like
minimum of two hundred and fifty million dollars a year to basically be like the exclusive place for all things and, alas, the details of our insane and complicated and I'm happy to sort through them if you like to, but basically this is like leaf
full list streaming sports anyone has ever done ever. The umbrella had rigged it so that all of its tv deals we're gonna, come up at the end of this season, deliberately
to do something like this to let go all in with one provider so it had. There will be no black out it's. There will be some
comes on tv, there will be some games for all apple tv plus subscribers. There will be some games just for the adolescent traversed. They said this is a giant mess and actually doesn't make any sense, because everything is called
but you ve and I still can't figure out any of it, but the idea is that, like it is going to be the most thorough, complete sports streaming spot that, like we ve really ever had in the u s, and for that reason alone I think a super interesting and am very said ass. He turned out, isn't the inner less like one of the least watched of the american sports like if you're a son
fan or you watching analysis is financed footballs exactly. I can answer that question very easily, which is to say what NBC paid for the premier league,
the? U s, which is a forty eight that plays it like five o clock in the morning, was like double what apple paid for the entirety of at the mls
so the ever less is weird in the sense that it's like it's a very successful in person. Thing like they built a lot of like small stadiums and expanded really fast, and they do a lot of really good, like dad actual ticketing business, but it hasn't been a huge tv visit. So far like what apple paid for analysis, I think well over double the tv revenue that Hamas is getting before. So this is like it's a big that for everybody on this thing, growing really fast and has been growing, but it is definitely like it
Fourth out of four among like the major us sports or august fifth out of five. If you include hockey, you will know they did not say they're gonna broadcast anything in forte.
my greening, all the coverage of this in its like apple, which indefinitely definitely afford it? Is everyone just waiting? Unlike eighty, I see three point now to become a thing
actually roll out so that that's the that seeks you should get from iraq. Has russia like every year during any
season. You know NBC and fox, and her also like announced, like here's, our slate of games and for fox foxes like way ahead of everybody else, but even fox,
actually only bright hasn't any repeated their upscale before tonight, which is just heartbreaking:
like they their forty cameras on the sidelines. They create attentively production and they, the outskirts of the most heartbreaking,
the big innovation in football broadcasting, ellsworth broadcasting.
They started using sony, miro cameras on the sidelines, getting ripped boca and ever like the sports media. God bless them. We're like check out fox eight kick. Him
It's like noted at sony, a seminar for like I can see it. So I don't want to another
The reason they make the trinity production is because of their broadcast to feel so. My will
well CBS here, CBS is ten. Eighty I actually looks better than Fox's broadcast seven twenty p, but my local CBS here I bought an antenna. This is like where I'm at cause it's surface.
I think I've got it or using it to the they've crammed so many extra channels onto their slice of spectrum that they actually still broadcast at seven twenty p cause they need to make money, so they just created more channels for ads on
it's horrible! So that's our excuse, as the broadcast networks haven't upgraded to it. They can't quite do it because they're waiting on a tsc three point o, which is going to have four k and hdr and all the goodies one day yeah, and if you like, pay attention to that side of cs this past year. There is a ton of idiocy right
idiocy is the standard for broadcasting. So it's all happening slowly, but the affiliates don't have the money to do it. No one's watching them, many way right and then world switching to streaming service. So, like I just like neal mohan, the chief product officer of youtube, was on the verge of something. Why don't you just like pay? Your google to expend some of your google books on upgrading to the forecast
a cameras and transmission equipment, and it's like take the exclusive and he was like that's a good idea and now they're sponsoring the finals, and it's still not that and I just
it's some trap right between the broadcasts, like the the networks. Don't want to piss off the broadcast affiliates, it's all very expensive, they don't think consumers care about it, which is, I think, wrong.
That and if you're apple- and you just took over the whole mls. This is like an easy win for you. Yeah you're going to do it you're going to do it,
I hope they do. I hope they and their amazon,
for both in the running for sunday to get for the nfl. That's
Another super easy win for them, but we'll we'll just see, I will say that this is all very complicated in a like. It's not as easy as just like put new cameras in ethic and and magical happened, but part of it is
like the one interesting thing about this deal is the emma less is doing all of the production. Like apple is not
really inserting itself into the process as much as I may be, would have expected, and hopefully it inserts its
less and less over time. As anyone who has watched apples, foray into baseball and not
more enthusiastic about it. They just everything
thing looks like an iphone widget. It is very strange that they use their own. You I further
scoreboard is really like. I want to click on my tvs,
a year and they always have like nonsensical probabilities in the bottom right corner. Where they're like rome probability- and it's like you, just got back, let's pump breaks, you're apple, but it just like, I think, apple is in a lot of ways. I think still trying to figure out whether it wants to be like a sports network or if it just wants to be the streaming service on which the sports networks do things.
and it's gonna be urged to see how this sort out, but I was there. I would be very disappointed if apple didn't do this stuff in for K, because it controls enough of the process that it kind of has no seeks, not you. Well, I wonder if there is like a hesitancy from streamers too, because
for k that we get from like netflix and stuff is so much garbage compared to true for k right like they scale it down that the birth rate they serve it out, and everything else makes it the only a couple of steps above ten eighty p, and I wonder if they're like well. If we do for K, it's not really gonna. Look that different for big
chunk of our audience. It's gonna, look the same, so why even bother thereby forte is way harder than william ethics has the benefit of like
zoomable. It gets stranger things while before it airs, you know, but if you look at a u hd blu ray and you look at the netflix version of the exact same content, huge huge difference like one looks like absolute garbage and the other one looks
like you, itchy forky, blurry, blu ray like waiting to see what happens with words. I would say that what has happened
here sunday ticket is a huge opportunity. Yeah put adjusted the state
sward streaming in america, it has so far behind everywhere else, like which I'm in the olympics.
And he took him on. Japan was doing our first test straight. A cape eight k broadcast the olympics and we were like tentatively, its brutal, even absent the actual like streaming quality thing, the like a common arsenal fan. That's that
the football team that I like, and they have some games that are on NBC sports. They have some games that are on NBC. They have some games that are on peacock. They have some games that aren't on t v at all and every
Every morning I wake up at like the ass crack of dawn to watch english soccer, and it could
in one of eleven places or not on tv at all- and this is like not how this is supposed to work put like everybody- keeps telling me over the last couple years that this is the transition period
the great and I think all the rate seals are coming up. It is
true that these tech companies have more money there
anybody else and if they want to essentially take the stuff over they can afford to do so, and apple was just, I think, the first one and it was smart to pick a relatively small one
Emma less doesn't have it on the here in a way that that led the has a lot to lose by making a bad streaming deal. It's it's a do. You think the the nfl as ever, considering their own o t t like app. I mean I've got one. They got like the garbage nfl out that my brother collar granted.
And be a ap. The nfl streaming on the nbs know the nfl wants to sell stuff, that's their money, that's where it comes from and that's why they sell it to forty thousand different companies. They sell, like at a very high rate that you can think of, is the wholesale rate right, but it's still a huge number. They sell to multiple parties and then fox and cbs and harass like layer, advertising and some trips
Also fantasy. Football gambling like the nfl, is not in the position to make all of those dollars the way that the broadcast partners gotten. So what in the broadcast like that live sports, especially the nfl as like the last thing, keeping people on their cable subscriptions, so they they know it like taking. I don't think they'll ever go direct. I want them to
and the other fellows milking. That fact for absolutely all it is worth I mean in the nba deal- is coming up soon and there's the rumours that it's gonna be like months
If there's like there, there are at least a couple more runs at this before like. If we get to a point where everyone has left, then like does, does the nfl start selling to netflix over time like maybe, but I tend to think you're right. I have a really hard time, imagining the nfl trying to do it's own thing, there's a rumor that netflix wants in on the f one because of drive to survive yet, which would be their first pushing the left.
Which they might need to keep subscribers disclosure. We have an affleck show to just add. Alright, we gotta do a lightning round lots of stuff here. So, let's start with microsoft,
if you're running windows going
gin up day right now, there's a big security, bogot pashas. More importantly, though, internet explorer- and this is a great deal-
whereby an inner export star windows dies a twenty six.
Finally of p shoes,
we take a moment of silence for internet explorer now because it was horrible
Microsoft is now automatically redirecting annexed worst edge. There's like half a percent of the world population I think was still using explore was at the number. Is it
Hi, yes, yes, zoo! This things would not die. They. They have killed it ten times and so they've done all these aggressive moves to aid edge, which is funny because, like the next thing we're talking about it's like the tech antitrust bills,
Basing the one you're buying in congress will eventually have settled for vote and it'll pass and all of us started.
windows, and I e it makes us out of it now active very
deftly avoided antitrust scrutiny, even though even forcing everyone on around on they're edge and killing a timescale of the areas where things very funny three of its time
I'm just tells us that are on the one. You're lying he's got a great piece about that by russia.
Well John Oliver just did a great segment about them, which is really fun to watch the lobbying pressure from big tech, google, amazon, etc. Really ramped up. That's how you know things are close, we'll see if it happens, if it happens, a lotta things will change will cover in depth at the one airline, nothing, the phone company, nothing, the phone. These names are so bad. It's a phone companies have nothing nothing the phone company, the phone is called the phone one. So then nothing phone, one
wait a little bit early, it's cool it does. It does look a bit like the twelve, but it's like see through back. The shielding is all white which is cool. It's cool, there's a parrot on top of it for some reason, if you get the parrot with the phone and immediately in it as android phone
we know nothing about the software except the launcher. They release witnessed bog standard. Andrei muttered, really
sonos voice control arrived in the midst of just
the wacky soon ass controversy of all time, their ship
tons and tons of actual devices to people order levi once on us, one like some do not like fifteen of them in the future, marched up. That is like a cop fifteen thousand dollars on this kind of guy he's gonna like links this box like this stacks and gives a great
ensure zone us in their own ordering problems, but they will
Her voice control wishes. They bought the somebody called snips
and now they have their own voice system, because the other costly having
challenges relationships with Google. They are still suing, though little friend earth alexa,
but now about their own. It's fast on device. You can tell to group rooms which is cool cause. He can't a lesson
I can't like you can't be like play this in the living room to like novice on this. One can doesn't support, spotify spotify will come around yeah spotify is like the it's like the netflow.
if this space, where it it never wants to be the first one in, but it eventually kind of gives up and is part of things over time, but it is. It is a real bummer. Like I looked at this and I was like okay, I'm going to buy I'm going to buy some some more sono stuff and, like I have. I have two soon ones behind me that are not hooked up and I was like okay, I'm ready to do this. Let's make this happen and then it said no spotify I was like well, I don't have deezer, so this isn't going to work for me we'll see, but we did agree or agree to continue earlier sterling
The substance collects is bonkers. It's all under additional used usage data. This just read the list, but it's like a collects. How hard, how long you're, using it and collects the temperature of the product using your air conditioner enough, sonos, nes,
your wifi signals, like all things like basic telemetry, it's just it's kind of a lot. You know my record player doesn't collect. Any data for me
Nothing much teams now has a high that improves interruptions which is clearest but important.
an unbelievably good idea. I mean it's like
the main reason I yell at people to wear headphones when I'm on soon cause is that it's slightly improves the cross talk thing, because if your computer is china, output, sound an receive sound and echo, cancel it just breaks and microsoft is, like people talk over each other. What if we had earlier- and it's like? Yes, this is currently, I hope, that's the first day I that become
mention the rwandan interrupts. You get just no more talking last one really important
ford, is recalling almost forty, nine thousand mustang mach ease they've made about one hundred thousand of them, so it's like half of them because of the high voltage battery connectors could overheat. They told dealers to stop selling them when they fix it. They have not said people should
stop driving the cars during this time, just like a very unclear like that, you shouldn't sell them, but if you've got one you should keep driving it very confusing. The problem can be fixed with a software update which will be issued next month. You can also just go to your forty and get an immediate fix. You've got a monkey, go to your forty like try to get that fix right away, but it's just like the monkey has had a bunch of problems since it started very popular second
Are you in a country people of em? I see em all employees now, but it launched with some issues as my glass limitation issues and some sub frame bolts,
and in the battery she it's like. The transition eases like tough trees. Automakers are people gonna, get the notification like over the car,
like you need to go update. Maybe there would be a useful infotainment feature. Hasn't tesla had this problem a bunch to wear
it's like they. They have a recall, and it's like well, we'll fix it with a software update and it's like well. What are people supposed to do in the meantime? And the answer is just like. No one really knows foot off the brake way back when the only thing to do was go get it fixed. Now you just like connected to fast internet
like hope, something good habits. I will say the in my car has a labour recall, which is a slight wipers guys. We should be grateful.
I like this would be a no brainer, so he recalls happen, but I think that the maki in particular just had quite a few in its very short lifespan lifespan, and
hundred lightnings restarting ahead so affords in transition.
and cars are successful. People are excited about them, but transition is a little bumpy. Tesla has had a lottery like have you seen the pictures of the cyber truck, see him wipers who've, seen the pictures and the like the panel gaps in the cyber tracker, all replace and that's preproduction, but the panel gaps like a model three year old place. So I would say the ii world is still so little rough around. The edges should do what you do happy one to end. It would have got a lot of people,
excited about this whatsapp update this week. Whatsapp is like relentlessly finally doing things to make it easier to move your stuff between devices they've like rolled out things where you can use whatsapp on multiple devices at once, and now they have an actual thing that lets you transfer your chat history from an android device to an iphone device, which is a super big deal for people who use whatsapp a lot. You don't have to leave all your stuff behind, just to get a new or just to switch to iphone. Lot of people I know are like super super excited that this is a thing that finally exists, because there have been crazy. Hacks people tried to do really to make this work forever, and now it just like. Does I gotta get on the whatsapp? I've been using signal a lot more trying to trying to break my imessage addiction, but now
I message as editable text you're going to go back to sending iphones to everybody who doesn't have they got me again? I'm gonna just give everybody a hint. This new verge cast art if you've been following our text messaging service discussions, there's a little there's some pixels.
Let's leave us anywhere is always we're way over
if the trailer is up on the site now, there'll be a netflix next week verge hast rebooted starts next week with second episode on wednesdays, hosted by David and a cast of thousands new art.
you see it's gonna be great. You can treated us, we love here. Everyone gets some really nice emails this week. Thank you to everyone here,
speak and treated us as well. I'm at reckless david is at pierce Alex's alex each crampons. That's it that's your chest,
Thanks for listening to this week's show and hey we'd love to hear from you shoot us an email at birch cast of the verge dot com, and if you liked the show share it with a friend bird catches, the production of the verge and part of the VOX media pot,
this network. Today's episode was produced by me Liam James.
Our senior audio director andrew marina. Our executive producer is eleanor Donovan. That's it will see next week.
Transcript generated on 2022-06-17.