Hello friends, that's the way. I heard it episode number two hundred twenty six. This one is called when I'm making a godfather were not making the godfather my guest on today's podcast a man called Nebulae Linsey Schnabel to be specific and he's here today, because his name is awesome. How awesome Well, a few years ago, Lindsey Schnabel sent me a draft of the story you're about to hear it's. A scam about his family's name, an aim that should be known around the world, but isn't for reasons almost too random. To believe I wanted to discuss with you as each the power of a name and the and on this of the world we live in and, of course, the business of working in voice overs, because While you might not know the Schnabel name, I guarantee you ve heard the snugly voice from ESPN

animal planet to CNBC to every other networking between Linsey shabbily has been too. When you want to watch, went to watch it what to buy, and where to buy it for many years, because how and I make a living- Doing the same thing from time to time, our conversation was bound to take a turn in this direction. So if you or anyone you know, has ever wondered about a career in voiceover. Listen up! and if you ve ever wondered what's in a name, consider. The true story of the monopolies and the town that might have been the wagon. The Miller's just knew that Loring Johnson would be a perfect son in law bright. Some ambitious and best of all Methodist. so when Loring proposed to their oldest daughter, the Miller's rejoiced because they knew

They were getting more than a son in law. They were getting a Johnson, Tc Schnabel early, on the other hand, was another story like law, during Johnson snugly had fallen for one of the Miller girls, but unlike Johnson, Schnabel was not the kind of son in law fill and Amanda had in mind you simply aunt Mary snugly said Amanda he's a Presbyterian indeed said Philip. What will the townspeople say turns out the towns well said quite a bit, and none of it was very nice, Philip Miller. It's getting one hundred sun and laws. They said. Loring one an snugly, a double zero. Nowadays. True love might be non denominational, but back in one thousand, nine hundred and one the Methodists of Goron Missouri, found themselves surrounded by encroaching Lutheran's Baptist Biskup Aliens and Presbyterian. So, even though their daughter said I do the Miller said we don't

young mister snugly, found himself at odds with his new in laws. For nearly four years. He tried to win them over, but nothing could assuage their disappointment or temper their disdain, ultimately Amanda Miller shun. her own daughter and the pain and strife became too much to bear with two small children, the snub Liese yearned for a more peaceful existence. They dreamed of a quiet place, a place of solitude and. Beauty, but where one day TC received a letter from his brother raving about a faraway place of unsurpassed tranquillity, Ellsworth snub was a frail man and required a climate that suited his weak constitution. Apparently, he found it in a lush, verdant canyon and the high desert with clean air and a fast running mountain Brook, surrounded by breathtaking boots and model

what's the Nepalese fled Gore and with all due speed after connecting with Ellsworth Tc Homestead, eighty pristine acres and quickly fell in love. There was something magnetic about the place, something bad go about the way the canyon glowed in the evening, Sun, the nepalese build, a stone house nestled in a grove of cottonwoods, tucked into the gentle bend of a winding creek, and that's not all. They built You see the snub. Please believe that others would be equally enchanted by the strange beauty of their new surroundings, so TC built a ten room way station in the middle of nowhere. His neighbors might have called him crazy, but TC didn't have any. So we built a road that ran all the. the flagstaff and sure enough. The people started to come. They came for dinner

aid for the night luxuriating in the tranquillity of the quiet, canyon and marvelling at the serenity. One day it occurred The t see that his guests might extend stay if they, could send and receive mail from his little bed and breakfast so TC applied for a post office permit after many weak do you see gotta response from Washington DC? Dear mister? nubbly we're happy to help you set up. Post office in your home but regret to inform you that snugly station is too large to fit in the cancellation stamp. Please select, the shorter name for consideration teeth He read the letter to Ellsworth his brother said why not name post office after your wife tc turn who was wife and said how would you like a post office named after you, dear Mrs snugly smiled as TC wrote first name into the space provided at a few weeks later, the tiny desert

community in the middle of nowhere had its very on Post office, named after the wife of Theodore Carlton Schnabel E, a young woman, ostracised by her own mother and driven from her home by the kind of discord and strife the can only result from marrying Presbyterian Ironic, because the town that actually grew up around nepalese little bed and breakfast would adopt that very same name, a name now synonymous with tranquillity, peace and spiritual healing. It's enough to make you wonder: if, U S, Post office had used a smaller font back in nineteen o too, with the people travelling from all over the world to experience the strain Engine abiding piece of snugly station, or If the Miller's had welcome tc into their family all those years ago. Would people today be talking about the mystical wonders of magnetic for taxes that still surround the snugly home

we'll never know for sure, because today those who seek enlightenment and metaphysical glow of those now famous red rocks do so in a town whose name was concocted by a mother, who pulled six letters from thin air and gave them to a daughter. She would ultimately disown a daughter named Sedona on one more thing on the subject of irony, remember: Loring, Johnson the perfect son in law who please the Miller's with every word and deed yeah. He went to Leavenworth. The details of his incarceration are inconsequential, but he died in custody. Bring great shame to Miller's Methodists and Johnson's everywhere, and that's the way I heard today a shoe news, profits, is selling men, sneakers men's driving loafers end a brand new collection of premium.

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And I said which one could I haven't. You said: oh no, you can only have the pink one. Sorry, a loser Windsor by the way I was mine in my own business- explain all three I got out of a north and my went sock. Is God just like that somebody find it was in desperate need of a window? I have been doing this for almost thirty years and I think I have never lost a windscreen in mind like right. I travel or what circumstances does one I mean screen while making The ceremony range. Let me just say I take my MIKE from with me when I travel, because I was allowed as well of right. I doubt around here- I actually- stopped at the TAC airports check in Tucson years ago. With this microphone because they thought it was a silencer and

I had to explain what was going on- and I said Handedly, you know it's funny, I I didn't have any Trouble flying in here at the t, say check in the civil war. Did you fly from Ella acts? Yeah? I what right here in Tucson. We know our security pal skip your little Rinkitink Ella Ex Airport? This is where the big boys play entire view explained them. Look, it's not a silencer, it's a shot guns and that everything was ok all its shock and go ahead. Yeah right this way, sir, nothing that we agree that you too, first the pointers for the first time in the history of this pod cast everybody has a professional or a semi professional microphone which were using and all of us it was you

goddamn matches the technology no guarantees, but aside from the technology, you are also listening to, dare I say it: three professional voiceover artists who are prepared to have a wide ranging conversation, not only on the oars June of this naturally name, but what I want to do with you Lindsey today, if time permits, I want you to help me out of the question. I have been getting every single day for the last twenty years, which has not believe it or not. What's your dirtiest job, it's I've been told. I have a nice voice and I'd like to work and voice overs. Where do I sign there is another matter that out yet don't do it, sparing with scientists. Don't just don't do it it's ridiculously competitive and it's gone through so much metamorphosis in the past five years alone that, I would say, save yourself, ya think it almost any other thing you want to do then get a divisive

and in all seriousness the whole idea of you have answer voice, which used to be sort of one of the first things you need That is so so dial has say here. If I read forty pieces of copy a week from our since thirty eight of them will say non announcer E, Genoa now casual sound, like the guy next door, thrown away yeah Street my favorite cliche is like you're talking to your best friend over the back fence, but what, if you best friend over the back fences and announcer right. What if you live there, the very Olsson that anyway cool, right now. Are you this morning I'm well. How are your legs a new, not about all things considered say about those owes waiting game last night. No work

real nail, lighter our aid so before we peel the onion back on all things voice over you have the greatest name in the history of names. I only say it because it's check your verify this in passing, that was almost apparent theoretical one day I was having lunch, she said with my friend, Lindsey Snappishly, and the waiter can Moreover- and I said, hey- stop hoo hoo up position ably hello, you, avian owner, it's a boy ha called Lindsey in the last name- is snugly really shabbily ha and ever since, been kind of interested in you or your name, your family, your career, and when you wrote the original draft of the story, we just listen to my friend I was tickled as pink as the wind sock on chucks microphone. well I'll tell you who else is fascinated by my name to the point where he refers to

as Linsey effing snugly and that is a dear friend of a dear friend named Jimmy Kimmel, apparently just fascinated by my name so I'm one handshake away from Jimmy who's. The friend in between good friend John Elliot Britain, radio, effing, Elliot sure nothing Elliot. You ve heard of him. It's a very kind story, but I turned down a job in radio with John into son to stay at Disney. and, in doing so, John ended up moving to other partners who ultimately included Jimmy Kimmel so my standing joke- is Jimmy Kimmel stole my career. I should have my own baby. she lay back, show and Jimmy stolen. Well, it's not a joke. Man. Theft by stealing is the relying theme in those other broadcasting and general right, good guy,

great Amir stole my career first and then Craig Kilburn, Stolid, son of a bitch and John Stewart came along, robbed me of that job and so forth, and so on way leads onto way, and none of them are joining us today in this riveting freewill. Let's hope on the part of the whole lessons, as the three of us You're not invited, and we were so back to your grandmother. Sedona that reveal was the first story. We did. I think, where the reveal was not necessarily a person. Although obviously was she was your Grandmama. It was a town, great grandmother, your great grandmother, great grandma, so you probably never matter. I did not again. I am one handshake away from Jimmy Kimmel and Sedona snugly and maybe the only person in America who can say that similarly layer like that

I said those I daresay has never been uttered Sudan died in nineteen fifty, so I did not meet her, but my father and both of my ants drew up with her in Sedona and had many stories and- Marie's and have photos from childhood, and you know it it's interesting. We would go there, s kids on summer, vacation to seduce Arizona, but it was nothing like it has become now as big as commercial atrophy artistic trippy. There was none of it. Vortex, stuff swirling around at all. When we were going, there is kids who was a very different experience. Interesting chuck. Have you been? I have not been Phoenix quite a few times my dad used to live yeah aside from the fact that those two towns her in the same state, there's absolutely nothing in common, said known it is I like the Word Phoenix

So I just like to say when you act like a career rising from the ashes of these in a couple of years ago. I was, incidentally, with my sister least and my dad Larry Larry is the donors grandson. We go for a hike, one more and we're hiking law highway, waited nine ay and there is a giant tour bus. Go down in explaining the you know. This is the location where such and such was filmed in their path. by us by like fifteen feet and ice. Said to my dad and sister. It would be so much more interesting if the two bus driver knew that sit down at his grand son is over there in the gray sweats on that bridge, rather than you know, This film was made a nineteen twenty three. It was an sort of

You guys only knew the history you just drove by the other reason. I love this story so much. First and foremost, I just love the idea that families going back a couple generations have this kind of inevitable nexus of you know, crossings and ironies and coincidences, and all of those things that nobody's aware of when their happening. But years later, Sedona was the first town I ever shot in when I began to impersonate a host in earnest after relating fire yeah, no l, I you know, I didn't really put the pieces together either until I read your story, but when I was fired for the final time from Cuba, see I embarked on this sort of quest to like try and be this hosting.

Non fiction and the first shall I worked always called romantic escapes in the first place we went was sit on it and I did so. It existed I'd never heard of it. I wasn't sure where it was, I knew the rocks were read by everybody. I met there was there to sit in the spring. an the for taxes, were the forces or whatever they were, and I just thought man if the countries as weird is this, I have a fund career about it, but it seems to be working out a cool little town added. When was the last time you went I was there. I believe it was three years ago every my go, I'm amazed at how much bigger it is: how much more traffic there is it will be a challenging place to live and I've actually contemplated. Looking at retirement homes there, but I am really sorry Albert by the amount of traffic that it has to deal with the amount of time it can take you to get from one place to the other can be hours, and you say this is it

I, who lay I was saying and having lived in LOS Angeles for thirty years now. If you go to sit down and bitch about the traffic. You know things have got to be pretty bad well. I wish I was back on the one I wanted LOS Angeles now there railways, yeah Gimme, a Thomas Guide where a man can stretch out and be free if it's hard to live and Sedona. Today, though, what must have been lying for your great grandmother? That's what I want to get at your people left. Missouri back in the early nineteen hundreds Gordon been easy, Gore right, yeah up with stories that my dad has and that other people tell about the first place, that Sedona Anti see lived Sedona going down to o creek who do laundry to launder the bed sheets in a creek lined with red dirt

and lie and soap and managing to get the laundry the widest my dad ever saw growing up in that car. environment. just amazing to me the cliche. Of pioneer spirit, and no running water. Outhouses electricity is a luxury to think that it began like that and is what it is now full of resorts and pink cheap tours and that its become the place that it has is really amazing, because what they started with with eighty acres on that creek, which would now be were so much money that if they kept it, I probably wouldn't be talking to the likes of you to the fact that not without crappy microphone, you wouldn't am I missing. Windscreen it's amazing to me that they had that kind of land and eventually it all got you know, sold off, but that it turn into what it did that it started

there's something so simple as let's build a bed and breakfast hey: if we get a post office, people will stay here longer. And the name, as you pointed out, the podcast was completely made up people say you know, Sedona is actually anodyne spelled backward and it's all part of this conspiracy, it it's kind of comical, I would urge that this man odes spelled back. That's no reason it's the vortex. You notes aliens at the whole thing up here, go and its. I got it. a conversation with my father's aunt. So I guess it would be my great aunt Clara who was the youngest of sin. Ana Anti sees six, I'm sorry. She was the fifth of the sixth kids This would have ninety ninety three just a few years before she died, and I asked her. What do you think so Donna Anti Sea would have thought about the town of

Donna becoming known as such a spiritual centre, and she said I think Sedona would have just laughed at off, because it was always a beautiful place. and, as you describe the sun sets in the Red Rocks is a surreal place to this date. When you drive into it to see that Red rocks starting to crop up is really amazing. I say Would she have been angered by it and she said no, not at all. She would have found it kind of laughable, t see. Sedona husband would have argued with people who argued for the spiritual vortex, not because He disagreed but TC, really loved and argument. He would just loved take the other side of an argument, so he would probably have battered with these strangers for a couple of hours, not because he cared but because he loved taking the opposite point of view. There is public desperate to talk to somebody.

cuz. There was a lot of people there when they incorporated in one thousand nine hundred and two was nothing. It was absolutely nothing. I think my favorite part in this story, if I can throw my arm out of whack pat myself on the back for a moment cuz, I just listen to it again. It kind of comes down to the font size that the Post office was using right, had they gone with, like a Helvetica ten, instead of a times new, roman right, twelve or fourteen snugly station very well fed and people would be coming from all over the world to bask in the healing, mystical power. She never leave town or whatever, but we would have an amazing. Certainly Sedona is a much prettier name than that. Snugly, I'd be the first to say that it was apparently fashionably station and oh creek crossing we're both rejected because they didn't fit in the cancellation step and

So, as you said, as the story goes, Ellsworth says to his brother T see what, if you named it after you, wife TC turns dissonances how'd, you like a post office named after you, she kind of laughs like oh you too. You too, and your cancellation stamps and walks out in a few weeks later they get the certificate for the congratulations. You now have a post office, the Post S too. So On the one hand, it's a little tiny thing on the other. And I dont know why it tickles me to learn about the way a town becomes a town. I mean Baltimore, probably as its own story, and so does Cleveland and walk it back far enough. But here you sit a descendant of the reason. Millions of people from around the world not only go to Sedona Linz, but like much appeal for the same reasons right these magnetic

for taxes and so forth. Whatever let me, but I hope, theses land from beyond the grave. Along with his wife, I find the whole crew interesting and, like you could say, I guess about any kind of faith or denies religion if it works for you, God bless if you feel Spiritual energy in the Red Rocks were Sedona, then I wish you only the best I want you to enjoy it. maybe Sedona TC reacted when they got. There began there was something there that they both felt it sense of inner peace that they'd never felt before, because de there is a spiritual energy there that occurs only a few places on earth. Who am I to say yeah? Who am I to disagree either at some point, you need to draw a line between the ephemeral, spiritual energies that may or may not impact and individual ends something like gravity which is going to affect, whether you believe it or not to that end,

inertia. Centripetal force these sorts of things, data where, if you believe in them, but I'm always amazed by the places and the ideas that are continuing our own, as you said, maybe its faith. Maybe it's hope you know. Maybe it's open mindedness or maybe it's just my numbing naive attack. We dont oh, but it sure is found to talk about in ways that gravity done an alliance. It's a fascinating is very unpredictable outcome and considering that the relationship itself- between TC and Sedona was so frowned upon back nor in Missouri that sit down Mary, the loser she's not nearly as attractive as her sister lily, who ends up lit the answer was it Miller, Marrying Loring Johnson, and lily and lowering are the ring and queen of Gore and there that the magic couple can do no wrong they're gorgeous and

Sedona marries this shrub tc and after a long time it's like you know, this isn't real, a very hospitable, place and Ellsworth he sees brother sends word for poultry canyon saying you guys got to get out of this place is unbelievable and they figure what the heck it's got better than this, and they move out and fall in love with it? Didn t see built this road that to this day, questionably he'll road, it was the first road from Sedona to the highway. That leads to Flagstaff, though construct that road allows you now to get to Flagstaff in one day, instead of four days and really becomes a lifeline and improves the quality of life in Sedona peep can get to and from Sedona much faster now, and you know, and twenty five percent of the time friends of this

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I want to say, destiny, cassettes, very Sedona type thing to say, but trajectory right, like my name for roughly twenty four hours, was Zack and my mother changed her mind and I became MIKE, and I wonder if we'd be sitting here having this conversation had I spent the last fifty some years as Zack or, if you weren't, a snugly or of chalk weren't a class mire. What do our names ultimately due to our future, and I wonder if there's some similar query regarding place- that's really interesting point. I think that names are certainly present. I do, I think so they ever is interesting and it was posed, and Chris Well Modulated, barrow down into it and has therefore sixteen I've heard people say the most attract give sound in the world, is your own name that you re, to your own name in the way you react and nothing else, and so I think it could very well be

one's name, subconsciously, impacts. The way you think about yourself so yeah I'd never thought about that, but that might be under something I have to say. I worked for many is when I was a Disney with a guy named Scott Swan, and I admired the fact that Scott could meet somebody and shake their hands. They high Scots want and they got his name. And its high a musician ugly one right legislation Schnell Lindsey gotta get Berlin's additionally s. What what can I talk to scare? But what have you get saddled with a dame like buster Hymen, that's gotta be just rusty. Pious are certainly sorrow in my line of work. Rusty pipes might have actually been better than Linsey snugly. I actually met a plumber called rusty pipes. I remember not, I forget, there's a word when you name really lines up either to where you live or what you do there

some word for that, I've got in a very odd refer friend, whose name is Trent cameraman, Kay I'm a r m, I am no joke their. Sometimes your name is destined that he had no choice. Yeah his mom said once upon a time trend honey. What do you want to be when you grow up? You said: take a wild friggin gas markets, not a plumber I'll. Tell you that much I They can, maybe it s a remand. We can go with Shakespeare rose by any other name. Surely smell of sweet, we can go with Johnny Cash and ruminate on a boy named sue. You go with Bernstein and the little dance around the most beautiful sound I ever heard Maria cells, the most beautiful cell ever heard: Esmeralda not gonna work ass, a boy named Frank, that's not a song that's just a guy named Frank. So are you the person you are today, and I say this, neither as insult or a compliment just an observation, because Europe Natalie,

And I'm just talking about the name, the sound of the name. Did it make you straw? longer than you otherwise might have been. Did it make you more dog? It are you more? I don't know defensive argumentative Do you have any other ways that at this point in my life, this is the first time anyone has ever asked me that question, but I've never thought about them. Well, you, as a fake journalist, part of my job lenses come at the hard hitting toxic contains luncheon. Then you really do sell it to eat it. I really believe your interest, it's all I answer. I am ok I still wonder if I should have changed when I moved out here just for professional purposes. I in broadcasting in radio and television in Arizona where my father and my turf were already on air, and so there was a certain familiarity with the name when I was there, but in hindsight I dont know approach

we never know. If I should have changed it, when I moved out here, I'm the same way: a lot people who wanted me to change my name casting people, did briefly Diane. I took rankings last him further first film, yeah that I did, but yet Charles King yeah, but ultimately I felt too bad for my dad was like I can't not have in its sat so interesting. I would have to yeah, but it's about four Klaus Meyer. It is there is the whole business of the stage name? We ve talked him brown that a lot, and I think most people understand that lot of famous people change their name, but I'm still on the idea as a vacation destination as a mystical place on the globe where certain things are happening within the rocks. That many people truly believe is transformational. Does Sedona Arizona still get the same traffic as snugly station like if much a peach

you know how to work called having a verbal right. I don't know I really just. I just No, I don't know either under. I suspect that snugly station would not be nearly the tourist destination today. That's it areas. Arizona is this is the point. This is why your story was so interesting to me because, while I can't prove any of it, it's It seems reasonable to assume that Marian Morrison would have had much tougher time in the pig conquest and John Wayne and that snugly station might have been a tough herself sell for the tour

some bureau yeah ought redraw. Soda has a rustic, I mean there's a visual too, that it would probably be as popular Sedona. Snugly is not at all an attractive man. I gotta tell you man from the minute. I met you when you first tell me your name like damn that, as I do like do well, I did to really, but not because its inherently beautiful, because its indisputable e unique it is all give you that we're talking now because of your name honestly, we certainly would have had a story to write about it, but for your name, but the first time your name came up in a veto. Conversation with chalk. Like I said I had to go back, there was the name that made me say: save water. Before we go to morphia crap. Can I get anything wrong in the story. And what did your family say about it when it dropped? Was this basically a good thing

it's interesting because I remember actually as a kid, my dad, getting a phone call or a letter from Paul Harvey's son when Paul he was still doing. The rest of the story and his son was, as I remember it. I think I'm remembering it right. His son was kind of writing and producing for his dad. At that point, and wanted to clarify some things and I remember listen. With my dad to Paul Harvey tell essentially the same story about how Sedona came to be so yeah People will listen, they liked it. You were pretty spot on it. So surprisingly, cut and dried story with just the oddest twist per day Finally, at the very end, when you consider that the old and boy ends up dying and Levin worth having I tc out of you know, theses money back in boring they leave Sedona after the death of their daughter. Pearl life is just awful and the doktor, incidentally,

family friend says to t see you either have to. Ec Sedona, the woman back to Missouri or you're gonna loser, because there's just too many bad, there's too much pain here at the loss of their daughter. They end up going back to Goran and Loring, says to tc: hey, let's go into business together, starting this menswear where store they become business partners and do. I want to say three four months: Loring Lee He was with all the money and builds teeth, out of his life savings and ends up you know come karma color. What you wish and dying let our then they moved to Colorado and ultimately moved back to Sedona in the thirties where they lived for another twenty years. And really enjoyed the last twenty years- their life in the town. They had helped build there. Somebody remarkable things you just hit me with first of all sides

What did Loring Johnson was he in jail because he built tc? Where did he some other. No, I I should know that and I don't know something tells me the desire to do with some kind of tax thing. Maybe tax evasion, I'm not sure, that's how they always get sounds like a difficult johnson. Doesna do yeah Johnson apart Methodists typical jobs, he was no presbyterian leaking of that. When you know my wife and I got married, she calls I remember who it was. Maybe like a credit card coming, her maiden name was Johnson Nancy Johnson. So she calls the credit, card companies and says I need to change my credit card. I'm getting married next month that adult woman says What's your new last name, gonna be and she says, snugly there's just a pause and the the woman, she says honey, I'm so sorry.

Nancy said yeah yeah. I know it sooner baggage deal. I really love him. you're better saddle myself with this odd name for the rest of my life well She rose wisely. Obviously enough with all of this, the story was good. Officially, thank you for bringing it to our attention. Oh, I can't believe Paul Harvey Junior REACH, how about this job buried the lead? If you knew that I didn't know, I did not know that I don't remember you know what I don't remember. If I brought it up or not, it is not an area. Conversation kind of thing I feel like I would have well

the reason he would have remembered it lends, is because this whole podcast was inspired by Paul Harvey Senior this entire. The way I heard it thing was my take on the rest of the story and when it wound up becoming a podcast and then a book, I was nervous because well I'd been talking a lot about Paul Harvey's impact on it and One day we got this letter, this registered male letter from Paul Harvey June, and he sought here's this here's a cease and desist like the ice. Exactly what I thought I mean, I don't know I said, send it back. You know what this is all tell him alone. The whole thing's gonna come crashing to nobody by that name senators. Blake. Let em deal with what I opened it and inside was a very generous check to them,

you sound nation. With a nice letter, saying honestly, it took my brother what's to hear from the man who wrote most of the stories that his dad really did that was gemini cotton and to sit here now in here tell me that this very story was something that Junior bounced around. I can how many times these weird little serendipitous connections have happened in the course of these conversations, but damn young that's another one. Aren't you glad you hired Chuck yeah we're still trying to get a garbage junior technic lead in Hiram he's working all failed that term. There's no real end in sight. Yeah. They did away with a prison who got sentenced to twenty years of away. I heard it.

I know how hard time you must use penguins agreed for the rest of your professional life, Lord, which brings us back to the vocation Lizzy. I seriously do when a pick, your brain a little bit, because we I'll. Do this chuck does this for living and has for over thirty years he teaches voice over you, ve been at it for at least as long me too. In my own way, something tells me were being serious earlier when somebody Ask you for advice: do you seriously look them in the eye, as I so often do and say: don't do this if you're so yeah. That's always my first reaction. If it's body that has quit their job in Wichita, moved to allay, and they ve already made some inroads they're taking classes there working a demo things like that they clearly committed to it. I'm not gonna, say boy. I think that pretty stupid mistake

with you no good for you. It takes a lot of work. Think it's very similar man. I know, as you guys, both do a number of actors and actresses, and I think universally one of the biggest fears of said actors and actresses is that their king They're gonna want to follow in their footsteps that they so free They say really really you don't want to do this for living, it's a tough way to make a living, and that's true, it's true, but Clearly, some people have a passion for it and are willing to put in the work, and I think it comes down to a lot of work and, let's all be honest, think, there's a great element of luck at times in getting cast. sitting next to somebody at a bar

or running into somebody in an elevator or at church or wherever or just being at the right stage in your life. For a particular part, that's gonna set you up particularly think of that with people in their early teens and the parts that come along is sir on the waterfront. If Farland Britain Brando is ten fifteen years older when that That is really good example, not plan that role. I do work frequently with a woman out here named Maurice Tobias, mirror. Nickname is the voiceless. and she's alleges. I just did a working weekend workshop with her a few months ago and there were maybe twelve fourteen of us. It was like a zoom thing and one of the exercise is she did, was to give all of us the same piece of copy ahead of time and have us record.

and send it to her engineer. So one of the first thing she does in this weekend to get together is to play back all sixteen of our spots. There, the exact same pieces of car be it sixteen guys reading the exact same piece, a copy, the sound boastful, and I don't mean to be, you could have put any one of those guys as reads on the air, and it would have been perfect. They were all fantastic. They were all different, but they were fantastic. So, at the end of this play back, of the sixteen mp3 file, she says, I wanted you guys to hear this, because this is what casting directors and producers are up against every single day imagine if they ve sent this audition out two. Fifty people there now sitting listening to fifty people what gives you the advantage, and I often think of something that chucks to me years ago, when he was talking about teaching voice over that your voice? My

the most unbelievable piece of pineapple upside down. Egg in the world, but that particular day that call it of direct. Your a producer is just lookin for a little dish of vanilla soft serve. That's all he wants and I think of that frequently because I here listening, so closely to spots on tv and radio online frequently find myself thinking why did they go with that person or hearing something and thinking yeah. I can see why He got that job where she got that job. That was an raising piece of copy and they did a great job with chucked. Do you remember, I want to get away around worse. First of all that could have been you that could have any

that could have in any of thousands of people who have paid their dues and know what they're doing, but it wasn't it was that guy, what's his name? Was it do you know? You know that one I don't. I know his name was dug Ballard. Who was you are now freedom of bright country that now he better than Ireland in a castle. I believe I am not yet. I was essentially early retirement for him because he was on every single southwest commercial, the money just ex up. So it's like the desert, your house, it just keeps in a rolling over but Linsey. You said something very interesting about that. When I taught I do the same thing, I ever body read the same copy, but what I do is I have them pick someone you know like. I will talk to me. I thought for over twenty plus years and have done this exercise every single time. I don't say you know, what is it Linsey is it MIKE? Is? It should obviously not be cured, but I'd cast your damages, carving out a burden

because the thanks buddy. I think I come in third out of these voices honestly by port. But let me just say that roulette, I would say to them. Just tell me: is it a male or female gotta pick somebody? Is it a male or female and we'll go run and even in the class is when I only had one female or one male and their work classes that went like that of class of like fifteen twenty people? I still got different answers for that, because I tell the story of the home base campaign that I had where, where of six weeks in her, however long it was in, the producers has eight at ever tell you. I got this job now honey says yeah. We, play the final callback cd for the client who said they're, all pretty good, just go with the faraway, and I have been a bit for a while. This is why we tell people. This is part of the reason I tell people. Look, don't do this.

the main reason is: if you take my advice and don't do it well, then you never should have done it in the first place. Don't take my advice, you ve gotta want it badly enough to ignore advice from the likes of me, but secondly, you really and truly need to realise that, unlike say a skilled trade, you can master this craft. You can become as good added as you can possibly get, which is good enough to prosper for real and you can still fall flat on your face and you can still spend thirty years on your friends Riah. It's not fair or just it's fun. If you get your kicks with a little bit better risk its great, but it's not a fair or just vocation. If you look at it through The lens of, if you work, hard, show up early stay late and take all the classes nobody's promise in your rose garden, ass movement.

This day and age you have got to understand. I feel like like harder for people and see that its ever been before to get their heads around the. Dare I say the equity. Of that I could not agree more. It's one of the reasons is that way is that there is such a proliferation of non you, And work, and increasingly larger and larger production companies being willing to go with Non union work. I think that's made it difficult technology with a decent microphone and even a free app on your left. Top and some bedsheets in a linen closet? You can turn out a pretty darn, good, sounding piece of audio and the number of jobs that I The three of us have done in hotel rooms under the bed spread or, in the closet, between jackets, puffy jackets, the things have jury rigged in order to do a session or or an audition. Tell me your best one best. One. Would

be. My buddy actually has been on the show Paul Penaluna in is poor. this apartment in the upper West side of New York, was doing a session for CNBC, there was a fair bit about, side noise, but I went into his coat closet and shut the door and was in between his New York Yankees jacket and my Lou Blazer holding my Ipad and a flashlight, and my apology, MIKE Did these session emailed it today I had it CNBC Lisa Sailor, fantastic producer. She calls back terminus and she said this sounds really good. Where are you and I said, I'm on sixty night than Columbus's clause in my friends coat closet is everything. Ok and she said you know. Offences sounds better than your home studio so our problem, in addition to the back of rebel cars, manoeuvre, hotel rooms. Cars are good.

Actually Lars. One odd story that only veal people could relate to friend of mine. Who was at a convention in LAS Vegas, built a giant pillow fort with the extra mattress of her is the queen size bed in his room was down to work out at the gym comes back his key. Won't get him into the room. He goes down the front desk and the woman says: oh security wants to talk to you and if a manager brings him over to the head of security who says, let's go to your room, housekeeper, They had gone into his aroused against the window and bedsheets piled up in thought. Is this like a mass shooting waiting to happen, and he pulls out bag of gear and explains I do this for a living and there are quite a few other video guys in the hotel, so you might want to be on the lookout for this kind of thing, plus I'm too

in kidneys out of derivatives and selling them on the black market itself. Up I'd appreciate our little derive tub whatever you do, but only its likely that drug deal remember, I pulled you into the Ford business years ago. Member you had to. I guess you had the audition or prove yourself to somebody didn't Lindsey somehow what help in this whole thing? Yes, let me just say that first of all, I lindsays and my former age, my former age, and I think he still Lindsays agent. I was a request right for you. The cat,

became too the agent and I went there thinking there's oppose a lay me down to audition for it, but I walk in and everybody whose, within twenty years, age on either side of me is reading this copy. My agent had handed out to everybody, unlike oh I've, got a set myself apart, so I called you and said: let me know the next time you were in a voice over booth and will do a demo of these connect. We, I Sdn, and I knew Lindsey had one so I ask Linsey and I believe the payment for said demo was getting. A picture and I actually have sound, and I had to keep both of them right here and what I love about it is that my name is misspelled by MIKE on both of them. the first one says Linsey. Thanks for the use of your shitty studio MIKE and the How can one says Linsey your studio blows: micro yeah,

at least I saved because only urge my ok, now we hear dispel your name uses your family to sell out icing on his body. Asked now. Is action Explorer use. Yes, oh my God is there no enter what this gets. Also circlets accordingly and matured Amitabha whatever that is. Oh, that's funny! Lindsey some studio, you were at one union and we lay down like three or four of the demos we It was that radio campaign for former Yugoslavia forward early reports in service presented a needle. I remember I was going to buy guys that they got that piece of copy earlier in the day so here I am for hours later, watching in my house record with uv I Sdn taking while must be nice to know micro crap.

I guess I should have done with everybody in the interests of fairness which, like going back for just a second, do what you were saying about how hard this is. I remember I was at Disney in attractions in marketing and on a pretty good career. Try Things were going well, it was a great job. I was actually have office had Disneyland over main street over the Lincoln Theatre. This is before worry your veal, correct and then realizing that I was on track to probably If I was lucky continue moving up within the Disney company, but also being aware of a passion for voice. Over and I think I was maybe forty one at the time and really wanting to do voice over and just in bed one morning staring at the ceiling and having this realization of I, would. Rather try

I voice over and fail miserably there wake up at age, sixty as a vice president. And somewhere in Disney thinking. I wonder I could have made that veto thing work and I remember calling my mom and dad and sing I'm leaving Disney to try this and my dad was just disappear and it and I didn't notice till later, you didn't tell me till later. He said I just thought that one of the most stupid decisions anyone ever made in their life. I thought why on earth you know my mom and dad grew when the depression. Why would anybody leave a good paying job with a good company which I get, but I am forever grateful as difficult as it has been at times forever grateful that I took the chance. So when somebody says I really want to do this. I searched.

relate to if it's your passion and you're willing to put in the work that passion is gonna, be your biggest asset without question. That is what I wanted to say about this, that the best thing that I've heard anybody say in terms of advice when asked that question that you first asked MIKE, is that if you can do anything else and be happy with your life through it, do it the only reason to get into voice over or acting in general, the arts in a notice is, if you just couldn't possibly do, and you can not do it it's. Like writing. I think the first time I heard that was from a pretty famous writer who said: look there's only one reason to write that being the abject failure on your part to do anything else at all that

in its not enough to love it. It's not enough to want to do it. It's not even enough to be really good at it. It has to be something else: a compulsion and affliction, a sickness. You said earlier Lindsey, it's a very different thing to talk to somebody who's crossing the Rubicon, burning, the bridge behind them and saying goodbye to the kind of job you described, but tell me: did you do that, or did you put a toll on the water? Did you had your bets for a time, or did you actually just walk away from that gig get an age, and go straight into the maelstrom. It was kind of a mix. I continued to do freelance work at Disney and other studios doing electrons press gets you know behind the scenes making of four movies and tv shows

and that in itself was a good business. It was lucrative and it was a lot of fun to do, but it allowed me to take classes to work on demos to finally get an offer from animal I don't have you ve ever worked with discovery MIKE, I heard gravity that led to getting an offer from an agent, and then things took off from their did. You know Don He certainly knew of him. I met him several times because then fact, the studio where I was doing before I had a home studio. These studio, which I was doing all of the animal planet sessions, which was probably three four days a week, was one of dance, favorite studios to record in Hollywood, Davis click now dvd and he was

a fantastic guy. I remember he was doing a session. I think for Tb S, it was maybe fifteen minutes before my animal planet session. So I was just sitting with Scott the engineer listening and this producer at Tv S, wanted dawn to sound, more conversational, but keep the announced, and I thought all my what's wrong: This is done. Lafontaine I was going, can react to that because he was de la Fontaine, the other power to say, hey buddy. Those are two different things which do you want the kids it well. I I guess we'll just go at what you already laid down. I thought your decision,

everybody out, I knew that worked with him. Just sung his praises. He was a fantastic human being I actually auditioned him once. Did you really your kid it he s when I was working at the voice, castor, he came in for Think for Harvey's and it was get out the typical in a world where it was the Don Lafontaine read. You know he was the prototype. They brought him a hint. He and I was about, like almost embarrassed to say you know it's like a year the prototype for this. I didn't give many direction. I just pick record he read at once. It was flawless. It could have gone on air right from that, and I said to us or anything else you want to do. sit, nope and I go. I think we're gonna is like a great good to see that was a smart man, we're good, yet a body of my daddy's tooth glad my not good you're the guest. Back here next week, no matter what happens good for him,

Jim Brady owns a studio into Sun and Jean Hackmen was shooting, I think, was it the quick and the dead with Sharon Stone. He was the voice, of United Airlines at the time United Airlines can fly to friendly skies. So this Pre ICE D on pre internet. This is recording to what was called Dat D, a team of Digital audiotape and the agency is in New York. Gene is Tucson, shooting they call genes manager. We have two gave him record this today. Well he's filming till six o clock, but we could do it The night Jean happened shows up at Jim Studio, seven o clock at night town car pulls up, Hackmen comes in, says, let get this over with this is phone bill. each day, so he's listening to a producer in New York in his headset. He gives the at one time: the kids, maybe twenty twenty four years old, says that's great mister, Could we do at another time and this time good you Hackmen takes them

Does a second take kid says: that's good. Could we do one more and this time could you Hackmen does a third take and the kid says That was great. If we could do one more and Hackmen takes off his headphones says: no, you got what you need puts it. It, bodes down the copies. Damn goes out: town car zooms off in the kid producers stuff. to my buddy, the studio owner Jim saying, is Mister Hale, when still there is no? Mr Hannan your building that you got three to work with, I think you're good I've never done it will be to understand me like this all sounds crazy. Do you guys listening? You just have to put yourself in the place of a traditional veto, actor who has spent a lifetime taking direction, and I dont overstep or sound ungrateful, but taking poor direction taking drugs

from people who don't really understand what they want, but believe will know it when they hear it down. La Fontaine who we ve been talking about, probably influenced more voiceover reads than anybody else is about. Part of the reason why I am in the business, and I only met him once, but I brought him up Lindsey because, like you, he was an executive over it paramount. I think rain. He was producing promos. This is the kind of randomness I'm talkin about folks. This is why this business. Is such a goat rodeo, because the greatest voiceover artist, of recent memory, was an executive and the guy he book to come up and read the trailer paramount this back in the very early eighties, I think didn't show so dont did it and he did it the way Don did it in a world one man and so forth, and just like that right,

Your career he's done doing what he was doing and now is doing this and suddenly thousands or image eating and even more are listening and saying to themselves. Yet I could do that and the truth is probably probably could you probably good, but it does. It matter That's the hell of it. You think the fact that you can do it qualifies you and it does to a degree but it guarantees you a handful of rain, nothing absurd, nice voice. You will tell me I should do voice over it's kind of like saying you know, I'm seven for two people tell me I should play basketball, slick. Ok, I should play for a while. I mean you're going now you're good. I am no guarantee that the go ahead.

and shock to his credit MIKE. I don't even know your aware. This chuck actually continued to do work with an entity that I stopped working with years ago. Because I could no longer handled the direction that I was getting during sessions when my agent called the book me. I just said you know what I just can't do. The setting Well, I don't know how so shocking I love it. I knew it. I knew it is when I say I work for them, so that's that's it yet, my body, Paul Penaluna, likes to say guys, we're not making the godfather when they're doing production and the odds guys think could we go back. I think I could tweet those to frame and make that little bit guys we're not making the godfather we're fine. This is written with this will be on a satellite in thirty minutes. Let's get this done and that mental

body of we're, making a godfather when you're doing a promo for whoever, where the line that you're being asked to do over and over is now It will on Itunes yeah, you ll spend fifth, the minutes on that line. It's like no! No, we don't they. the main idea look Jack, and I fight about this all the time because well because we both care deeply about what we do in different ways and your do what happens is Paul's right? The collective we are not making the godfather, but the individuals are and this is why, ultimately, I wound up at discovering. This is why I wound up and nonfiction on a show like dirty jobs, because on that show, I was able to eliminate the second,

because it was up to me- and I was able to tell my Director of photography and my audio guy and the field producer, all of whom I love, I was able to say to them guys we're not making the godfather we're just following the action, and so anything that isn't take two is a performance. I don't wanna performance. I want to somehow capture this. It doesn't have to great, but it only works if everybody's on the same page, so on any given day, no Chuck might see something in this podcast. That's not a hundred percent right and he is making the godfather. In that moment, man I'm not right. Good points. I've got very modest organization, filled with people who, very smart who understand that collectively we are not making the godfather but individually, God help me they're, all Francis Ford.

Opel of every one of them ran their make and a godfather yeah yeah good on you, gonna. U, God help me well foot and what's next your website, I'm trying to find a way to offer some shameless plugging, but you are Vito guy dot com causes. How you're I mean you know Despite our ban the milliner, let it decided grateful to God grateful to God for the work my wife previously known as Nancy Johnson does the same thing for a living which our finance, adviser when we first started working with him years ago said I gotta This is a really stupid arrangements that you are going to be the same line of work. That is so

precarious I'll, see now that all additives on those same claim everybody out it's gonna, be fine, so Nan Mcnamara, dot com, there's my shameless plug. For my wife. We actually have gotten to the point where we have now not one but two studios with I Sdn and source connect in the house which, when I first contemplated That sort of like say hey. I know you ve got one kitchen unthinking of putting in a second budget. In that case, we both want is a serious crime right occasion. What if I'm gonna had a second pools a second bill. and pool next to the pool in the back yard, but the number of times we have ended up doing or additions or sessions simultaneously is remarkable to me, and I am grateful to be able to do that is really a blessing. While I'm happy for you, because, as you might recall, that first shitty studio cut

that was chucks read. I would remind you, quality itself was fine, was excellent, truly excellent. With your point should I think I want to call this episode, we're not making the godfather, and with that in mind we can probably land the plane here safely? Let me just say thank you. Thank you for being a snappishly. Thank you for sharing the history, your family with us and allowing me to do it here on the podcast and for suggesting one of my favorite episodes and for hang for an hour saying what it was you ve been saying in that distinctive credible Chris, well modulated, baritone. Not an answer but not to cash. Nazi casual are you talking to chalk and MIKE over the back fence, yeah except shock and like a real, famous now and at last we have designed around voices like you too,

to me, like the world is wrapped in a pink wind sock and then I think we will be high on with a little weight with a little down in, a little out, yeah yeah, Irish, with a linear fired shape, six seconds, but don't save Astraea, busy snugly. The name says it all that veto guy dot com. Thank you brother. Thank you, gentlemen, be wealth.