And just like Its episode number is, really to ninety saturnine rabbit here, unbelievable this. What is called megan Kelly and the irish goodbye, because you're about to experience both- those things. My front yard is too cloying

the shark. Is it to just sink authentic? To just sum, this whole thing up as delightful is megan kelly, a delight, an absolute delight. We didn't have enough time with her. I wanted more time with her because, as you know, I've been trying to get her on for a long long time. I've wanted her on for awhile, I'm a huge fan of hers. She's got a great podcast that I listen to regularly she's a great journalist man. I mean that's the truth of it. She's a grant, journalist and she's fair. She got into that scuffle with a trump and aliens, but still like you would think. That's it he's dead to me, but she's like yes, we had that dust up and he's a bully and he's wrong, but on this I think he right. It was a big dust up to it could have been a career andor for her and it could have ended the election for him. Frankly, the stakes were actually pretty high. Anybody would have ended. Thirty helps, I think yeah

her resume is pretty great and her trajectories really super interesting, and that's why I I wanted her on well: full disclosure. I've been on her show once or twice, and I told her last time, looking come back on your show. Unless you do mine, she said, of course, so what I would love to then something she meant it and she meant it if you want to hear a structured, really good interview with megan Kelly that hits on all of the the really topical points that have happened around her over them asked five six years or so listen to John startles conversation, whether it's good conversation is good too, but its very different. I just wanted to hang out with her for an hour and just talk about whatever came up as it turns out that It came up, were important to both of us but it's a really fun light. Hearted conversation with a very smart, very accomplished woman who has broken a few.

gives along the way but who today occupies, he's a real estate in this industry. That, I think, is pretty unusual. She's got a really engaged audience and she left two places that many many many many people are working very hard to work for fox and NBC she's. Out of both and get the sense. She's never been happier listen. She is exactly where she needs to be as somewhat who watches and listens. I believe she is exactly where she needs to be, and all the people that she talks too, is very interesting. The new story she covers she covers very well, she's got a whole team and they get it done and because she is a true devotee of the irish goodbye, would you just get the housekeeping stuff out of the way real, quick right now introduce her properly? If you would as a producer, who knows what he's doing late

in gentlemen, you're gonna love our guest today miss making kelly megan as a journalist, and she is the host of the megan kelly show which has on serious exe. triumph channel one eleven every week day at noon eastern time and can also be found on you tube at youtube, dotcom, slash, making kelly and wherever you catch. I guess you can follow her online on twitter, facebook and instagram all at megan kelly at megan, kelly, megan, m e g. Why an katy, l l, why it's episode number to ninety, seven million jelly and the irish good bye right after this doo doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo doo down here is a little did you know, did you know the answer? Each person has twelve paid subscriptions. Think about that. if you think you're only subscribe to a handful of services and publications you might want to double check. I thought I had three

turns out, I had nine. Why does that thirty day free trial thing I signed up for is the perfect amount of time to forget that I signed up for the damn thing. In the first place with rocket money, you can quickly identify and hansel all of your unwanted subscriptions and do that could save you, hundreds and hundreds of dollars rocket money once it is true. Bill is a personal finance app that fund and an cancels all of your unwanted subscriptions ma. It is yours ending in a super simple way and helps you lower your bills. All in one place really ingenious and its super simple to use no more sitting on hold with customer service rep to hate their jobs, no more seeing hours of your precious time, emailing back and forth, with a robot or an idiot, if today, over three million people have used rocket money, saving the

average person up to seven hundred twenty bucks a year is not a small thing. Stop throwing your money way cancel your unwanted subscriptions. Do it now manage your expenses, the easy way by going to rocket money, dot, com, slash row, that's rocket. Money calm, slash row money, dotcom slash row saves some money. We can show you with raga money and money, dot, com, leisure, all right now. You're. So way to make some time for whatever this thing is megan. How are you I'm good? I'm looking forward to this? It's gonna be fun right, you're gonna make it fun. Aren't you the records fun as we can we in this day and age, megan words like fun, where no one knows what words.

Mean anymore at all. It's just every sentence: they field finest vine failed as aft field is left, my god racist speaking of which why are there? No black m good points like brown on the inside, you attempted to do the solidarity yeah, but They were really concerned with the inside of a candy or a person anymore. It's really just about the outside. I think we are less than twelve months away of losing the cleveland browns. What do you think? I think we have already lost them? I mean, if not, brown how's, that been allowed to stand right. so true, but how do you even have the conversation redskins yeah them either skins. Great but I mean browns, I never thought about that. They're gonna lobby. They are going to remember, I went to syracuse and they had to get rid of orange men. Is

is like second list and disgusting. So now we just started them until twenty christine now we're just the orange like go orange big fruit comes out What's after orange, I mean I guess it's burnt umber right I mean I'm like things are going to get really esoteric. What did you tweet the other day? Eminem's thing right and I was just reading through the comments earlier and oh my god. I just can't tell a four in an snl skit anymore. The comments made me laugh so hard people are so clever. I love m really has lost its. My mail mars company, like we did, is whole bit There are changes a year ago and they ve made more changes since it, but like a year ago, it truly was Ike. We lowered the stiletto height of the girl

eminem's shoes, so shoes. So she can just be more fierce like why who's running this company who's thinking, chocolate yeah. I know You know I was super interested in all of this, but in like a weird tertiary way, because about six years ago I don't you member this but monopoly got rid of the symbol. And the other was sad and the wheel barrow yeah and they they replace them with a penguin. a dinosaur and something else- and I wrote something about it and Tucker called Would you come on my show and and share your outrage, I'm like? Well, I dunno, if I'm outraged really, but it does seem a sign of the times and it turned into this giant converse asian and created all sorts of trouble all over the place, but I mean where does it end? Isn't there like an iron, get rid of the iron? That's the worst! Isn't that one of the things that monopolies that a long time

get rid of the thimble and keep the iron, but what they did was currently at a glance. They just said anything indicative or rep international of work has to go and they replaced it with everything related to play, so you know is a guy that runs a foundation that saying hey, wait a second before we throw out all the iconography related to an honest day's work. Can we have conversation about the thimble well wholly crap did we. Did you see that google thank this week? The gallant, google one giving us a tour of the google h q in lay. There is no work going on a google just know that there's no work, lattes yells size, chairs and there's emotional support animals and has lots of sparkles there's no work I know and there's music behind it to light coming from a like jack in the box.

So can everything just seem so trivial? And I really wonder I mean I think it's legit, because I've seen him too I've actually share too few and then run on hundred percent, yeah, likely fashion, This girl is real and shoes actually had a google. Each key was out you're saying yes, I told we, then I went out to the google h q in l a it was in. I can't remember it's like the real hq q, where they are beer, silicon valley, and I got a tour of the facilities and I met a bunch of google exacts. They wanted me to talk to people at arms. Back when the left love me and I've never seen such a shangri LA in real life. It was crazy. It was like they had a fencing room. You could go put down your coding, go fence for a little while and like a rock being everywhere and, yes, you know cappuccino and every corner free dry could being free food gourmet. It was, I remember, seeing up to the people there and I said: look there will come up

when your career, where others will come suitors and they will dangle nice offers in front of you and you will think, could possibly be better than one I am, is there any wave of greeting from this and the answer is no no stay where you are oh well, you only feel that way about Google, because you didn't to facebook. I had a show on facebook for a couple of years and I was summoned one day I had a meeting with mark and I got the full on tour and they have on their roof, you say, shangri la in quotes, but I'm not kidding it's Xanadu, its walking paths. Everything his manner cured you're just walking along and birds, chirping in your in the trees and with others, Toby airy and then there's like a yogurt stand on the roof riots and unpeopled, no matter when you get up there, they're just their huddled in these little

watches and they're talking in their laughing, and it really I mean, except for the obvious presence of daiquiri ease its till party translation villages these four for twenty five year old, professor Now I have been to facebook, but I didn't get as far in as you did, because the wanting I remember from facebook that I thought was impressive, was all of the bathrooms have many toothbrushes and many toothpastes, so you always have fresh breath and clean teeth like you know what that's a nice touch if I ever run facebook. I'm going do that because, when you resuming with people- god forbid your breath be a problem I mean it. and they do another thing over their megan that would have fascinate you. They scheduled meeting every thirty minutes, and it's no joke

thirty minutes or up the meeting ends, and the next meeting starts, I mean in and out all day long They don't let them go beyond thirty minutes, no, its thirty and out right, because so many people are cute up and when you go over there for meeting you'll, see dozens of people waiting in some sort of ante chamber and the higher Ups are waiting and you just go in and it's not a form of unification that I'm familiar with its a combination. Of like a board game or like a party game and kabuki, but I'm Have you ever wonder, meetings like in your life now do even take them not really, I mean I just had a media. All my team is spread out all everywhere there. In canada, there in texas, there california, there are new york new jersey, all over and I just had a zoo meeting without producing. We should check you know like after the kelly file I'd meeting

my whole team. Every night we chat like this. Worked. This didn't work. What did you think up a? But we never get to do that now. Control spread out and it was great. It was so life full, I could see them better. We could do I miss people, I missed. actually seeing my t, my staff and then they missed the benefit of my wisdom like when you don't get there, some members my wisdom is something I guess. Why did we do that way. You know this from working on a daily show for most of your life, I'm sure, but I had a boss at CBS years ago, and I was doing the single evening magazine every night. You know and I'd agonize or we're trying to get this half hours good as it could be, and sometimes it came right down on the wire. You know like that broadcast news moment where people are running through the hallways adi by everybody's happy it. Yes, yes and I remember saying to MIKE. He would call me at my desk.

Can you tell me about the peace and I'd say? Is it good and he'd say mike it's better than good, if done slight, it, took me a while you my head around it, but when you do a daily show right. What's the point and beating yourself over yesterday's disaster, you got one coming up: democracy that unites buying sex. That's exactly what I said to my team. I said luck and this is true I said I am never gonna get mad at you for actually screwing up the news, because news is a difficult business and you Definitely misstep people lay traps ideally over time, you figure out where they are, whereas the quicksand, but I'm never going to get mad, because you made an honest mistake and actually preparing the packet or getting ready for the segment. What I will get mad at is not owning the like I want you to be coming to me before I go to you to say this is where I screwed up. Is it going to do to make sure never happens again? That's all you know and they got it. I want anybody who works. For me, I, like the person who is to say winners, take responsibility. Losers, blame others. That is so true.

and it's so simple- is a mad megan different today in this situation. Your end then say a mad megan was you know in the fox or the NBC days. Just so people understand I dont know of any body whose com from the traditional world of broadcasting into the space, that your occupying right now, I know lots of people in your space, but I dont if any one who took the route that you talk. So a lot of what I wanted to talk to you about today was, life inside this, I think very unusual rubric. You fashion for yourself, question was you know, are you cranky are now the need to be now happy. Unless cranky you don't look. I'm fiery fiery, I'm half italian half irish. So everybody knows that meets right. It's like you're, ready to fight it all types put truly,

only thing that will ever really get me actually angry with the team is not taking responsibility for scrubbs. It's not that you can have a scrub, except that you didn't own it If I need to explain to you why you screwed up I'm gonna, get progressively angry, as you know, if I have to keep browning back you five more time so that you get it because as the anchor as the host, All I'm hearing is it's going to happen to me again. he's going to do it again. She doesn't get it what's going to happen over and over again to be embarrassed publicly, but back when I was doing like kay news live and not really the afternoon show as much but really the prime time show. I was much more stressed out and I was under attack all the time so you're, like you, know you're here like ok, you now, I'm loaded, forbear to and gear. You know you understand your teams there to protect you, but you also feel like if they

grew up you're the one who's going to have the egg on their face, and it's going to become a national news story and they're going to have ten articles written about it and you could get fired. You know now, it's like I'm, not gonna get fired. I own the company that was fired me, I'm good and I so just don't feel, like every word I say is under such scrutiny anymore. So I still more relaxed it's not as high pressure as it used to be, but it's interesting because you know heavy is the head that, whereas the crown right you trade in one batch of stuff, and sense for a different kind of weight, because now you're decisions, you know, have consequences that impact lots of other people. I would think Actually what I want to get at I'm doing this thing. I think I might have said this to you before I've spent twenty five years, either with a on the production side or a network suit. Or somebody somewhere who I really need to consider before I opened my big mouth now.

It's just some advertisers, someone from come and go others who were loyal, but mostly It's the listener. You know so to have us, re blind to them it. So I think it's hard for able to understand what a privilege that is, but man you have it now like few people? Do it so much more valuable to me as just a person to feel that connection, so people used to watch me on fox? Yes, I had some genuine fans who would and just for myself, but I would say most people watch cause. I was on after a really as like you have the fox news on like theirs. finally, and there's Kelly and she's not going to disappoint me. It's not like she's gonna upset me so yeah and you never know. Is it me or is it the platform that is resulting in my success here, and believe me, roger ales, did his level best to tell us all. It was the platform you know it was not us and nato

as any sort of talent, love how that's how we refer to ourselves in the industry will, and we will call ourselves the talent, but any talent gets in one's head. Like you know, do I have a career if it doesn't work out with this particular employer so come over here, and that was actually one of the reasons why I didn't launch on youtube for a year. I just went audio only for the first year because I thought there was going to be such value, being heard? That's it just being guard like? Will they come if there's no false eyelash is, if there's no fox? blinds Doreen You know there's no like after shoulder. If there's none of that, it's just me talking and they did come, and then after a year I was like alright, let's you know, go both barrels and we did youtube in that grew exponentially over the year. We've been doing it, so all of that is real. Those guys are there for me and my team and the way we deliver the news, and I see it now MIKE even we started this weekly, it's not really a newsletter.

On fridays. We send out this sorta newsletter where we just up it's like one middle or less to learn all the week's news, and we do some show highlights the woman who runs it for us. Just like the open rates are exponential. Virtually every single person who gets this email opens. and she's a you. You don't see this and the reason is because those people- and I have an actual relationship there- not just me cause I'm on after o reilly They know me, I feel, like I'm going No them it's a real thing, it's just really rewarding, which is why it's a very different thing to ask: will they come as opposed to? Will they Stay doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo down sylvia feedback on this the tax relief thing continues to roll in I'm looking right now, just a snapshot of their results? and seeing retail businesses manual, Ensuring businesses and big

distribution. Business is getting anywhere from eighty grand two nine hundred thousand dollars in checks sent directly to them. Why because they went to covert tax relief, dot org now. These are examples, of course, not actual guarantees and not all businesses will qualify, but a lot of businesses, churches and non profit, do qualify and they are getting a ton of money back if you paid employees through all or part of the pandemic. You could qualify for up to twenty six thousand dollars per employee through the government's cares act: full disclosure, you gotta jump lotta hoops to get the money and it's a maid your time suck. That's. Why covert tax relief that Work is very, very, very, very, very, very busy they do all the work and in return They receive a reasonable commission, but after you receive your refund

three hundred cps and tax experts standing by to get you the maximum benefit visit. with the tax relief dot org now, because the plan expires soon, that's covert tax relief, dot, org covered tax relief, dot org. Why do they stay? Why do they come back and what things in between or in the way of that relationship, whether its and b, c or fox or any the traditional stuff, in the reason, I'm kind of belaboring. This is because I do want to talk about my friend, Stephen crowd. Her and my friend, germany boring and what's going on in that world, because I kind of feel like part of what's happened is the whole platform. Talent paradigm is collapsing in on itself in a really fascinating way, it see to have changed every single thing, this shifting platform, to the point where you can now tweet out of thing on em and wind up, engage in a really

bus conversation that, on the one hand, is patently absurd yeah other hand is actually intensely import. Into lots and lots of people, and you get to decide how much grey matter to devote to that particular hardness? It sell empowering is like you don't. You know. I no longer need fox news or NBC, but kind of nobody needs fox news or NBC. Now anybody can get in front of a microphone or in front of their phone for tik tok and go viral for their opinion. If it's interesting enough, like there is a bar there's, some quality control built in in sort of the natural instincts of consumers, and that's amazing, if I were at fox I'd, be in a panic right now, because I'd be All the cord, snipers and I'd be seeing all these interesting. People rising up in the industry that has the upward mobility and I'd be thinking. We have a shorter life span over here, but yeah. No. I love that and I do feel like really lucky that

We have this opportunity, this audience that I think the reason they come back to us as they they know they're going to get. I hate the words overuse, but authenticity and honestly they're going to get truth like there's a higher bar on my program. When it comes to the news we don't just read and rip twitter like yeah, we have a staff, we have a real budget for producing. That's where most of our budget goes, so that we check our facts and if we screw up our facts. Unlike a lot of you know, sort of people we're just randomly doing news analysis will come back on the next day and tell you let me show you my notes like just by way of comparison this. This is what I've put together today. Alright, this is instead of my prep. Do DR chuck crazy and this I didn't even right until you said the word bathroom when you were talking about eagle eye, just road potty talk and the reason I do time this is The ices is what we will we do. We are, reasonably successful in our chosen fields and we've each worked for a lot of really really big platforms but

the last time you when I spoke, we took a very weird and very deep dive into a really tragic bath. room on seven thirty. Seven right now is amazing. I told you about that ridiculous story. I view as the great I thought about it. A million times so cannot happen and be see, cannot happen on fox now. Can that happen in any traditional paradigm? I'm not proud of the fact that a devolved into an unapologetic, scatter, logical, romp, proud of the fact that I heard from thousands of people who watched that exchange and just came to me and said MIKE. First of all,

I love Megan. I've never heard a really talk like that. Anybody before and I've never really heard you talk to anybody of her stature like that before and it made us all feel so. Damn human it made us just feel like everybody's got this sphincter and they're all counting on it and to you, who before forgive me. This is probably a stretch, but the thing that pisses you off is when people don't take responsibility. For their actions on your team in the course of their job and underneath that horrid dickie, conversation we had. That was my beef that whoever went into that bathroom and destroy. before I wandered in, didn't take perspire, stability. Didn't raise your hand. I think that was me right That, and so are you for it here. please you much walk the earth airplane. Rather I did it. I did it. I dont a bomb left stinker right here, but it's a civic on a plane.

What are your options? You just sit there and look out the window. Everyone who saw you cannot know it. Wasn't me nothing to see here. I dunno. I just think the fact that we could have that conversation is empowering. The fact that we did is crazy and the fact that the feedback as a result of it was so great, is instructive. It's awesome and it's like no it's expecting it. I did have no book that look like this for you that my team, infringing together, we could have. guess so many interesting news stories are stuff. It you're doing projects all this. No, we devoted, maybe forty minutes to toilet problems. Bathroom habits, embarrassing moments in that department and everybody loved it. We got so many clicks and download from that, and just because you know it, some days. You need a laugh. You just need to hear a light. Conversation about something that's kind of amusing kind of funny makes you think a little between two people who, ideally you like, and you spend some time sort with friends. You know it's not exactly

If sort of friends like it just makes you feel it can all be read me kill bride. He is a little bit of everything, its exhausting and and you know to be a fly on the wall. If it's an interesting wall right, that's what I think this offers people it's a chair, to be a little bit more engaged and they normally would but not to suck up? But the thing I love about well, I've I've seen you make this call on the air a thousand times. I've seen you forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think You generally know what the next question you're going to ask is going to be. If things go, the way you think they're going to go, but the minute you hear something you didn't think you were going to hear it all goes out. The window and you'll take your cue from that and that's what I meant before users, don't like that. You know it just makes some very, very, very nervous, all kinds

NBC everything like they wanted a script. Everything fox news cables go more free wheeling at at NBC, they were like- and here are your questions that you will ask, and I was like what do you mean? I don't I don't need your questions, it's literally my job. It's the only thing I get paid to do or like these are the questions that have been pre, approved by legal means of standards and legal. I'm like I'm, not asking your question and then, if you d they like Are these not couriers? Writing legal questions for me and supreme court cases that we're talking like did this person practice law cause. I did I don't need to like it was so confining. I would never go back there. I wouldn't go back to cable either, but I really now go back to broadcast where they were. box you up and you're right. Listening is half the battle. Listening is a skill as an interviewer, and if you have confidence, you can do it like when you're a newbie, it's harder right, cause you're like I, but I have my list and I'm just not going to deviate from my list and

but I think the best interviewers our good listener is unjust, are curious people, so I fear the guy in office space with the stabler nope, but this was that it was my story of my statement MIKE. I deplore and it's my question and its needs. my question out? It's all been ordained just so this doesn't sound like two people bitching about their industry. What do viewers and listeners really need to understand when there were teaching the news on pick. Your boys, fox cnn and bc. Whatever what do they need to that in your estimation, most of them don't how to watch critically and onwards I mean they know by now. I think that every news programme in ankara has an agenda, and that has to be heavily factored in. Maybe they don't know how desperate they are to scare you that's a big part.

of the business. You know to scare you indefinitely to outrage you. I think people do know that their train outrage you, but They love it if they can scare the bejesus out and that this good motive, but there's a reason, a lot of people who watch cable all day long are walking around feeling kind are unhappy. It's not a good idea to put on fox news and leave it on all day and foxes. My favorite of the news channels. it's really not a good idea to do that with MSNBC or cnn, but they have an agenda is not consistent with well being You know that's something that, like even like a martini, you know she just have the one can't can have one every hour from eight a m forward. Second end well: well, you can spare mounted and you're right. You're right, isn't it so

speaking of not ending well. How was it going to end for our friends at the daily wire and for Steven, and I'm asking you now not just as a as an industry person but as a lawyer like? Can you sum up quickly? What's going on for people as you understand it, and a lot of thoughts on this? I should start by. You know disclaiming. I agree with you, I'm friends with both of them. I love Steven. I have a real soft at my heart for Steven Crowder for all sorts of reasons and think he's a huge talent, but those guys have the daily wire. I love them all are on my show regularly. These are like brothers to me, so I hate the fight. You know it's like upsetting to see the fight and I can definitely see points on both sides and also fault on both sides. So I start with then I'll tell you what I think is a land of getting. It has a happy ending. Here's where

The daily wire went wrong when you're recruiting a talent like stephen prouder, and it's not just my sick infancy for stephen he's got real numbers, he's extremely successful people who come from people who might not know just how powerful he is. It's like Joe rogan, stephen prouder. You know like in terms of the youtube subscribers and the power in this industry, so real loyalty in a fan base, which is worth a lot of money. Really you gonna go try to get a talent like stephen crowded, I realized even called them first through the agent said he's coming up. That's how it's done now. That's how it's done not have really knows when you're becoming a free agent, so it wasn't really stephen reaching out it's like an agents. Job say he's coming up, so Jeremy reaches back out,

cause have we got an offer that offer needs to be tailored for the star you know and that offer from the daily wire. Wasn't their defense on those terms was his boilerplate? Well, they they shouldn't have done that. I would have been offended by that too you're going to offer somebody, fifty million bucks and you're not going to think through how he's going to react to this term sheet and Steven Crowder bread and butter is pissing off youtube in the social media companies. He does it every day. He would be democratised every single day, under that deal that was suggested to him every day. He would make no money if you listen to one day of Steven and that's how he is he's like has got Alex Jones on there every other day, it's like touching all the third rails.

so I can see why he was offended that they would put this in front of him and then probably secondarily offended that on this type of a deal they didn't take the time to craft something worthy of him and like to actually entice him into the daily wire family, and I think that's where things went south raven that he was like I'm not valued. This is a middle finger. They know, I'm we're going to agree to this. This fifties not really fifty and by the way he can get fifty from another outlet for that amount of time and that amount of production. And stephen, you gotta know like he's an tional guy. You know he's not like. He is somebody who would take it personally, that's what I'm trying to say like he said clearly my deadly I'd. I'd, never seen him like that on these videos, he was right on the large of I thought. You know the criers yeah he was. He was an that's legit. I get it. However,

going jihad on Jeremy was probably not. the answer, and certainly taping jeremy, who is just such a gentleman, an honorable man was definitely not the move. You know it's like. I was with you until that and like I don't really get. Why unless ban is right, that this is all about just like launching his new platform with the most sizzle possible, why he went to go back to them and said: I'm kind of defending This is a non starter. Good luck! Lots of love! I'm doing my own thing! That's where charcoal I left it. We ve been talking about this a lot because I've seen hundreds of term sheets like you, I've seen offers like this. I've had how many conversations with how many sea owes and some of them go well in some of them don't, but this love of dirty laundry is extraordinary. I've never

ever seen the head of a company sit down and go through a term sheet and explained to the mass to the world tat I mean so. First of all that never happens. Never happening in real time right now. That makes it amazing, but the thing that I then I come back to in all of this is: do you think It's the guarantee itself that creates the problem. Do you think the agents create the problem because for the life of me. I don't understand why either side just didn't say: hey wait! Let's take a breath if you really want to be partners, will pay for the production of the shows that we want to put on in exchange your wave. Your talent free will, give you the platform and then we'll split the rebel

we all eat what we kill? There's a lot of risk to go around, but the rewards could be enormous. I wonder if anybody has the freedom to even make a proposal like that to the sea. I don't even know if it needed to be if I like, I dont, have access to the daily wires balance sheet, but I think, if I were in germany's position I would have said I will pay you ten million dollars a year for four years and I will pay the production costs of your show, but then I will on the content. If you wanna on the content, you have to pay the production costs of your show, and I will not demonetized you if you take hits on social media, because you're gonna help me dr subscriptions here at the daily wire and aiming to make money. And over fist from people who are part of mug club who want access, stephen crowd, or this is the only place they can get it it's what spot. If I did for Joe rogan,

and I really sees not on you too, but craters, but already been demonetized on youtube. It he's gotta, be making money and the other social. Otherwise this would have been relevant at all. So I think there was a way of getting him and saying we're, not gonna penalized you every time the social media com These doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo doo down the boy scout model is be prepared. Trust me that model was drilled into my head once upon a time, and today I still think you'd be hard pressed to find a better piece of advice out there. For that reason, I have a fire extinguisher and my home today along- the burglar alarm at a smoke detector and a three month supply of emergency food from my patriot supply look, I'm not a doomsday proper and are not interfere. mongering, so I won't talk to you about the importance surviving armageddon were world war three or walking dead, reality version, but I would like to survive

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MIKE, who has grabbed the band, keep your friends and your family food. My patriot supply dot com, slash mike people like you, people a pro gun. People like stephen, the good people, want an opportunity to bet on themselves and it seems to me the betting on yourself in this industry is the thing that gets fundamental, lee discouraged by the people who control the platform because they no long term, The real upside is in owning the asset and so to compensate for that they'll push large piles of money at you you can make all kinds of different deals, around production costs and so forth, and so on its in that fundamental moment, megan that I feel like wait. If I could go back in time actually wooden

at because I wanted to own dirty jobs right. I would have paid for the cost to produce that show, and if I could, licensed to somebody. I have done it without a talent fee just to participate advertising but you'll get that option and the reason I wanted to talk to you earlier about this platform. Thing is because, as it shifts and changes under our feet, those options become possible and licence deals become possible, yeah and good. Friends like germany, boring and stephen crowded shouldn't be at loggerheads, they should be making deals that reflect the nature of this new platform. I think I agree with that and honestly, like I say, I would never go back to cable news. I would licence my showed a cable news, but I would never go be an employee for cable news. Again I mean I've had some common to ask me They can do that and I will see I have a good deal right now, I'm not whatever gonna mess with, but I would never not

I own my own show now, but I would, as a junior person like, I understand, Steven's point of view. Like he's trying, he said, I would never lift up the ladder behind me, but Jeremy has a good point that when you're young and you have no market power, like no you're not going to to own it, you gotta, come establish a name, establish a following and increase your bargaining power, and then we can talk about that like when I was at fox, and I was growing right out, nobody knew who I was, but I was growing. I never expected to own. My show, of course right. That's not a thing on cable news, exactly maybe some people do that. I don't know about, but roger would always come to me in an economy. Early, let's say I had a four year deal. He would come to me at the end of the second year we wouldn't even be in the third year, and he would give me a real generous offer. He would give me such a generous offer that I wouldn't shop it you know like it was his way of saying you're really valley able to me. I get it you important to me and work in it

continue growing you you know or investing in you, and he would make it so great that I felt loved and just sign on the dotted line, and I was really happy doing that for years and years they're like that's kind of what you need to do, if you're going to go, try to get a steven, Crowder and you're gonna try to get them just sort of abandon his current business model and his other opportunities that wasn't done here. But in the end I do believe it's all worked out. The way it should it was ugly, but it worked out the way it should because what's going to happen now is Steven's gonna stay on his own, and this ecosphere needs more players, not fewer. It's not We had a crowded and daily worm. Merge. I dont want that. I want delaware to continue growing into the behemoth. It is it's amazing that they are in a position to even offer a deal like this. What a credit to the business bottle that germany and then began click five or six years ago. I mean like not that long ago and outer should be. He should start another like his own daily. Why are doing it? The way he thinks is good, like not pulling up the ladder, let's lethargy

guys come in and on other stuff and see that works out, maybe to reinvent the wheel and we'll see something we never thought was possible before metaphors or powerful, right and when you talk about pulling up the ladder you you really do create this situation that feels so lopsided, as opposed to saying actually What the latter needs is more rungs, probably on the lower spot. You need more opportunity for people to come in. And find their way and create a thing. I'm really really super super curious to see what these shifting platforms are going to do to the many conversations. I've had you know: quickly and the ones I'm gonna have coming up in so many other people, because I I just like we're standing in the middle of a blank page megan, I dont know where the lines are like it. Meanwhile, its exciting.

but it's also kind of like whoa whoa, what's gonna be interesting about this, is it's going to depend on the talent? Look at ten pool? How did tim pool been such a big following he put on his little beanie and he went on youtube like six times a day for short little stance and he'd say stuff? That was interesting. Yes, he had the limited history as a journalist. If memory serves he can remember like vice or VOX and one of those it wasn't like. He had no background, but he was not a star and he just built it brick by Now I can see him much more in the crowd field. You airfield me like everybody should be given these. Opportunity they can do what they can do. Well, not everybody can do it. and I'm not going to name names. But if you look at cable news right now right, let's take cnn, I got too many pals at fox. Let's take cnn who had cnn are going to give you the answers, not one person who cnn would have an a big individual following if they just

we're doing that bit by bit me every single person on cnn, whose name is known, is known because at the platform, their platform players, that's it they're, not stars, and that's true for virtually all of cable news to be honest and broadcasting's. Look at the morning horse would any one of them get a following like that, like TIM pulled it they wouldn't their stars because of the platform like back to the roger rails thing and there's a very few sort of number that could do it brick brick. Crowder is going to try the brick by brick model with young people and half the battle will be in talent selection. You know he's gonna have to have an eye for this. Guy can do it. This is the next him pool verses. This is somebody who's, not gonna, do it unless they have the support of this star making apparatus of something like a daily wire or a fox racine it. It's such a push me pull you. You know I mean, I fear the executive, you wanna groom talent, whose different who stands out? Who goes against the grain? Who

through the noise, but the minute you do that now you ve got this jagged little pill, who has there own inertia and now that post It becomes a threat you now and so that's why roger came to you before your deal with. yeah? It's why everybody iver for came to me before the deal's upside. Let's not wait brain, until we're in the middle of some game show. How can I keep you here now longer, there's a way of handling and rodgers talk about this all the time that he would create these big stars and then they'd have these big egos and then they'd be a big pain in the ass but they were worth it. You know I mean: do you think it was easy when he was dealing with o reilly, Hannity and back loan bearing the prime time. Can you imagine roger dealing with their blood he was a genius at it. He had a real talent for managing people like that and create stars and then letting them blossom, and also there is as other piece of it:

then letting them down easy on the other side. So I see it happening all the time now, these days everybody serve caught onto this now, but it was roger creation of you, dont know when you Ben demoted, you know I I mean I'll, take shepherd Psmith. They booted shepherd Psmith at seven p m slot, which is really prime time, which is a good start to be an they moved him just down to his three p m. Shall he'd been doing both? and they built him like a fifteen million dollars studio and they paid him something like this, million dollars. I don't know what it was a huge raise for any was already making tons of money, sofa shepherd you're, getting new title like head of news wherever they go It was. They gave him this amazing studio, build just for you and your getting tons of money thrown it. So you you're valued it just doesn't really really programme anymore. You like it

management is smart, brilliant! You look over here. Look how shiny switch. So what about eighty five? Are you familiar with? What's going on on the war on freelancing and the gig economy in California? Yeah yeah. I've been reading John ziegler who writes for me. I'd has been writing a lot about this and so he's getting up to date, a bit through his writings seems like bullshit mace. Well, No, what there's a guy named will swain is pretty good writer and he had a piece in the national review over the holiday, and I read it actually made me angry. It made me so furious. and it was about it and independent truck driver named Tom odom. Who is moving

Texas now, along with a lot of other independence, this guy just anecdotally, came up the hard way. Estelle a high school education got his own truck, he's netting netting six figure. A year, and this bill has eliminated his business and seven. Thousand other independent truckers are about to leave california or become employees, will be forced to join our union as such is truckers of course. It all right, sharing its graphic artists, its anybody whose freelancing- and so I only ask you about because I I would love to see you take a swing at that topic in general, but as it relates to what words, talking about now. You know when does louder, decide be his own man wendy you decide to take the big guarantee. When did you decide? You know screw it enough with NBC enough with this one like most people. I know

alot- takes a lot. I headed sexually harassed by one bars and think again, and then I had to move on to another. Very I mean by contract. I can't go on, but trust me. It didn't get any better right, but even if you weren't beset by the parade of assholes that dominates the then you're. Always the find everywhere set by a parade of even so well even if you're, not the grand marshall in that particular parade. Most people have they come to that decision. In their careers and the fact that california is now affirmatively trying to eliminate the ability to be anything other than an employee right and the fact that there is a big buildings, in congress right now. What to culture? The pro prolactin assented, yellow act, it's an acronym. I don't know what it's four it's nothing good, but did you know this war on freelancing

is somehow in my mind, anyway, about to become a whole lot more relevant to a lot of things that that I've heard you talk about historically and obviously the thing we're talking about china. I should have to pay more attention to this because I feel like consistent with almost everything you see at a california is in favour of more government control over your life. It is in favour of getting you to go along to get along to be a good little soldier, and does it really tell you right, less freedom, less autonomy, less? american spirit, less entrepreneurial spirit? All these things? You know, I always get nervous when I listen to people comment on cove iD or any sort of government overreach by saying it's all about control, as if there's like these masters in government who have his huge plan to control us all the way they do in north korea,

and that every move is a part of the master plan, mostly because I don't think anybody in government is that smart, I just there's what smart person is running that because the really really smart people, don't tender run for government and they're, certainly not in there now. So I do think is more the gentle and sort of the natural outcome of a world view, as opposed to a master control? But this is the kind of stuff that leads you on the other lane, like maybe a really is about control. Maybe there actually is a plan to take away my choices from me, an odyssey. This goes right to the fundamental part of being an american like figuring out blood, sweat and tears. Put your elbow greece into it, and you can make a living for yourself. I am no no longer right. It's the infantilism of the population, and I try and look at most everything that's being debated and discussed in an all the controversies in terms of

this is essentially making us more. Will this thing make us more or less dependent on something else more or less reliant on something there than us- and I know just sounds like horatio Alger, cranky old, you know white guy stuff, but that to me is the fundamental balancing point: are we becoming more or less independent and self reliant yeah. I was going to say that's the partisan split, dividing the left and the right right now right. The left wants to control everything. They want you to depend on government for everything, but I dunno the republicans are not.

much better on that in the libertarians. They can't get power. So, there's not really what point spending too much time over their lane yeah, I don't know, I think if you look back and when government interfered in not all but virtually all instances, they made things worse, go look at them. Documentary by you like steel and shall be steel. What killed Michael brown to see how government intervention to save you helped towns like Ferguson Missouri, and you can extrapolate that to any town, usa, but the more the government gets involved to save you with their programs that are from the heart, the bleeding heart, the worse, your life winds up, and it's almost like. I dunno if you've ever had an addict in your family, but it really is sort of like if you've had an addict in your family. You know you really need to let the person hit rock bottom, you need to let them suffer and then they pull themselves up and the more you try to be The one lifting the longer their recovery is away from them.

The farther away from them it is. The government won't learn that lesson expression I like is you can't wanted more than they do yeah right right and you can't keep but a limiting them on their own determination to get it yeah. I call it going splat right, I mean most bad. Things need to get bad enough, so people go oh in some sort of collective way. Yes, that's bad! This needs to stop whether it's the border or a botched withdrawal from sir foreign land, etc, etc when it goes splat hist equally anyway, as I understand history, that's when opinion shifts when things start to turn. But what may in its hey his if you're well intended actions

turn into some kind of enabling. Then you are keeping the splat from happening and whether you're talking about an addicted family member or you know, and unhealthy dependent citizenry. I dunno what splat looks like in a world where everybody's enabling and working really hard to make sure it doesn't hit bottom. Well, wouldn't you think, take a town like stand that ferguson lane right now with government intervention, so what'd you think a town like chicago would be there. You know a town like in two thousand and twenty one. There are eight hundred murders in chicago like I would think they'd be there. I would think they'd say you know where they are now. They are not and they are not willing to change leadership. They're gonna stay team, blue iron of forever in baltimore, same thing: ok, big government, democrats, well, meaning saying the right things.

You know we're gonna. Do all the belts suspenders to make your life better, always So I dont know what it looks like either mike. I feel like sometimes we're just so entrenched in our partisanship that we can't You're are a messenger like trump who said what have you got to lose remember? He was asking for the african american vote. The ld ava lose was the greatest message ever it was question I gotta let belt and suspenders just ruminate for a minute I don't know how I feel about that. I mean it's me. I think you just used it in the sense of you know. Two things designed to hold your pants up is better than one because combined you just doubled, your odds of not having your pants fall down, but you ve also embrace the thinnest. Capable truth that now you're dude wearing belt and suspenders, which is like if I had had the medium a guy. You me what's neck spat

and an ascot, it's the department of redundancy department is it depends on how high the stakes are. You know it's like you're, going out with your buddies for a beer, you can have a system failure, it's okay, nothing bad's going to happen, you're going commando and your anchoring of presidential debate on the stage you want both the. Why risk it I guess I'm just thinking more of you know. Megan is out with her friend years ago- and you know it's a lively bar scene and you look across the room and a gentleman catches your eye and you look at him and he looks at you and you take in the suspenders. and then you notice about and what goes through your mind right there is this. Guy who's got all this basis covered, or what is this in escaping from the circus.

What is a reasonable woman to make of a man who wears belts and suspenders? I don't think it would have even dawned on me until this moment that actually one of those is not necessary that we I've never really thought it through. Like has Anyone ever actually done that. Oh I've seen my senior and it makes me uncomfortable because you love risk will I love a little bit of uncertainty, but when I see a man wearing belts and suspenders, that means that what Ever I might see in the unlikely event than his pants were to fall would be so horrific, so damaging to him and potentially catastrophic to me that we simply tat role. The dice I want to safeguard. We need to take steps by god. the parents cannot come down. Oh geez, we lost her. Else entities offenders and just like that, we lost

connection hardly could buy. That was a hard goodbye, but you know what, if that is goodbye, there's a pretty good chat. Oh my gosh do some sort of producer thing. You think you can get her back. I don't know you know we're like five minutes away from where she's gotta go. Oh gosh, you know what What are the odds that her producer just pull the plug on it baby? She did like you MIKE started talking about some dude pants falling down because he he wasn't wearing protective clothing. While folks chunk, is trying hard right now to see if we can get the maiden kelly back on the line, I did get one of those unstable internet connection. Warnings are really not mine,

a blazing faster five over here we go. We got four minutes left. Unlike ok, I went too far. She didn't, like all bell, has suspended thing. The whole image that's coming down. She did like she's gone on their I'm sorry, I'm sorry That way, aren't I I told you I wish to tell you that the irish goodbye, vague well the right. It's the greatest thing ever. I can't believe going to conclude this conversation on this note, because you are so right. I've been a strong proponent of this for years. Please explain exactly what means to you in and the like, time you used it effectively. The last time I was with any other person It has to be more than one person cause can be awkward, which is the one that's called a divorce. It's a route know when you're at the party or at the cocktail party or whatever party

It was a wedding whatever it is, you don't have to, around saying about everybody, you just widely piece out you just leave. You walk out that door, you don't say goodbye to anyone and here's the problem, like sometimes you run into the person whose trial to do it. They're, not irish, their irish adjacent their glamour. You wanna go on and we will and you get this We the irish to buy my you know. It's a bell see undermine the whole system, Take it a little further. The other way I say- and I literally was at a wedding this weekend and the way got out your cause, I'm in the mill with some story. There's a crowded pier by some guys, I'm going to hit the head real, quick I'll, be right back, and then I actually, went so far as to tell my brother to order me. A beer right well, then you leave you leave. There's a beer

with your name on it you're in the middle of a story. I've crawled through bathroom windows, and I'm not irish, but I am such a fan of that departure. I just love it. Here's one of the many reasons I'm on it. So it involves no rejection, you don't have to say your party's grown old, I'm no longer enjoying myself. Yeah is like I'm having the best. I love being by or you're gone, it's just you disappear and for me this is so good because I hate giving rejection. I really do so. I am the person like if you're over at a party- and you don't have to talk to come talk to me because I will never end the conversation. I will be the one you have to ended. I will talk to you all night long, because I feel so bad. I feel like every end of the conversation is a rejection where I'm saying you're no longer interesting. So I of the irish, because just like arms gonna run a ladys and they just gone don't hurt his feelings, except for the poor

Esther stand in air with this brand new belgian, his fancy suspenders wonder where a pretty blonde, where things are going well she was hanging on every word, now there's a hole in the wall, simply megan kelly, running dammit. I give you one one other tat. This this. I actually am ok with doing this kind of humorous and I use sometimes if somebody asks you to like attend an event in person like a face to face invite which I hate. I think its rude, send it to me in writing. So I can reject you properly. but, like the hey, you know we're having everybody over next friday. Would you know you wanna com or like he tomorrow night, I'm having all these people? You just say I would, but I don't want to, Here is the problem with my schedule, your on it.

Oh my god, I wore a couple. We'd have no friends not just to notice a capital under the nerve suspenders sit around. One would have. Other friends help she's gosh thank guy! That's perfect, you know I don't even get her back its It was a hard out one member, no kidding god. That was really. That was a perfect. I risk a buyer, perfect irish, you and I- and I guess, that's megan Kelly and the irish- by that's. Gonna have to be the title, or maybe not oh, I would, but I don't want to the commission shares the view that give our dinner right and one to thirty one you're producer said you had to go.

Tell you one more thing: click as a single best and to any cost I've ever seen or heard my power I just will hit say willed it. It's a good eye evident. I know you got. go! But when you leave now this time, just leave it open. So that is how can we get those others, but nobody else is doing artist. You sit here looking eyes ears. Maintaining and slowly walk away find somebody order me a beer I'll be right back kroes that was fun thoroughly enjoyed that you guys I do this again soon, honestly careful what you wish for we're huge fans. As you know, and now I owe you one so if I can ever be of use on your thing, the answer is yes. Thank you. Just let me know really fun megan. Thank you

but I do here, is the guys you advertise and subsidize demand gas that I do fishermen there. Then you should know before you go. That's why it's free for you, because it's free, my home, you see me and then a ringing. Their bottom should mean yes, without the guys who resides not no part with a sponsor. Thank them. the fur aids please forward through their commercial, those ones that you raise. With science. please

through those. Than the ones you eight, but in others words. The listeners are the reason this podcast exists, but the sponsors are the reason the listeners can listen for free, which is why you should join me in thanking this months. Sponsors my buddies over at butcher box field of greens, express vpn, lightstream rocket money, covert tax relief, dot, org shopify net suite blinkist ziprecruiter Erickson senior living at my patriot supply. Couldn't do it without you guys? What do you say? We do it again on the. MR world. Here celebrating my favorite holiday tax reef the day

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