Hey guys it's MIKE Row- and this is episode number one hundred and ninety six of the way I heard it call it macaroni. That's what I'm calling this one call. It macaroni it's a direct quote from today's very special guest, a man who can always be counted on to leave his listeners with an observation or a quote. Worth repeating in the interview you're about to hear the one and only SIG Hansen, captain of the Northwestern STAR of deadliest catch and quite possibly the most famous fishermen on the planet tells me a story about a fistfight with a fan who took some unacceptable liberties and he went on to sum up the strangeness of that encounter by saying call it macaroni. I still don't know what he meant exactly, but I like the way it sounded so now call it macaroni as the official title of episode, one ninety six, which concerns itself primarily with manly men.

And the reasons why people find them manly. We began with the true story of a surfer who I read about years ago, a surfer who did something off the coast of California decades ago. That would redefine the way manhood is discussed today from there. I share a few personal stories about my old friend Phil Harris, another crap, Captain made famous by deadliest catch and a manly manned by any definition. Unfortunately, neither Phil Harris nor the manly surfer are with us today, but they did have a lot in common when they lived, including a lover. The see, that's why I thought it would be fun to bring in sick here

and who just happens to be a fan of both of these manly men and a fairly manly man himself. Sick, in other words, is the perfect guy to talk to about fame and manhood, cancel culture to pays risk adorable little bunny, rabbits, Cove id naked fear, lockdown cases of Paul Mall thrown off the roof of buildings. We cover a lot of ground, including the various reasons. Otherwise, smart men sometimes do but things in their quest to be manly whatever the hell. That means SIG is also as grateful as I am to see deadliest catch return for another season. Seven!

ten years now that show has been on the air. Unbelievable and the new season starts this Tuesday April twentieth on discovery with yours truly doing the narration. Yet again, anyway, this is exactly the kind of conversation you expect to have with a manly fishermen like sick Hansen, including a brief sidebar regarding the infected tooth and the pus filled cavity that brought our spontaneous chat to a sudden termination call it unfortunate call it I call it macaroni, it's a rumination on all things, manly and it all starts right now and when I say right now, I mean right after I remind you that four out of five employers who post a job on zip recruiter.

Find a quality candidate in twenty four hours or less that's, not macaroni, folks, whatever that means it's just a fact. I've used a recruiter for years and every time I do, I not only find a quality candidate. I find him fast and you will to look. There's never been a tougher time, not in my lifetime anyway, to attract the talent. Your business needs to run critter can help just simple there. Matching technology really does work and the results really do speak for themselves. Four out of five employers who posted job on Cypriot, router, dotcom, slash row find equality candidate in twenty four hours or less just go to sip recruiter, dotcom, slash row posted job for free, see for yourself, zip, recruiter, dotcom, slash, r, o w e you'll see why they really are the smartest way to hire. Does the wired chapter Eighteen, a manly man, a gold medal and a really big see.

Long before he won the gold medal that ended up on his mantle. The manly man stood in the sand at the Tipp of Balboa Peninsula smoking, a cigarette staring at the biggest waves he'd ever see. God almighty. He said that is a really big, see the the champion. Standing next to him smiled and nodded monstrous breakers blown to towering heights by an offshore breeze were being forced together at the last moment, by a series of Jenny's, the guarded Newport Harbour local surfers, called it the wedge, sensible people called it. A death trap, Wally O Connor called her the challenge

you're right, said Molly. This is a very big see, isn't it fantastic? The manly man felt the adrenaline course through his body. This was the way he felt every week on the gridiron moments before the bone, jarring impact that the line of scrimmage would determine, who remained standing and who got knocked to the ground. He was addicted to the feeling, which is why he was drawn to this dangerous new fad that Wally had come up with. I'll take the first pass, said: Wally watch and learn the manly man stepped back into the crowd, lit another camel and why urged Wally Oconnor glide through the water. It was easy to see I had one gold in Paris.

Under one wave and then another swimming hard against the rip tied with long powerful strokes. A hundred yards out. The water was only four feet deep, but the waves were at least eight feet in height treacherous, to say the least. While he waited for the wave he wanted dove into its base, pushed hard off the shallow bottom and burst out of the crest. Then he began to fly at least that's how it looked to everyone who was watching. Partially embedded in the curl of the surge. He eased himself into the pipeline while extending one hand and stop gesture his upturn palm carved in the great rumbling wall of water, while his other arm remain tucked behind him with white foam shooting office

just an greenwater breaking over his head. While he flew towards the shore like Superman, no one had ever seen anything like it surfing without a boy. As the mighty wave began to crash in around him, while he stroked hard staying just in front of the thunderous crash that sent him flying toward the boy, like a human missile in a sea of foam skimming across the surface before sliding gracefully onto the sand, where the locals greeted him with wild applause. While he stood It took a modest bow and turned to the manly man who had yet to win a gold medal. Europe champion ready the big man nodded. I am a simple answer to a simple question that wound

changing the course of his life. The manly man confronted the big see with manly confidence, imitating everything he'd seen Wally. Do he swam hard against the rip tied for a hundred yards? He waited for a wave as big as Wally's had been when it came. He dove into its base, pushed off the shallow bottom and burst out of the white water, at which point he began to fly just like Wally Here's the thing: if you're gonna go Toto with the big see, you'll need more than manly confidence. You'll need perfect time. And when the wall of water began to fall apart, all around him, the manly man was out of position. Thus his manly body was propelled with great philosophy not towards the beach, but rather straight toward the shallow bottom over the crap

The roar of the surf over the muted sound of his own screams, he heard the sound of his future vanishing before him. The snap of his collar bone, the crack of his arm, the crunch of his shoulder as it popped out of its socket. Those were the sounds of a football scholarship coming to an end, along with his college education at USC and the law degree he had hoped to graduate with all of it gone taken away, by the really big c in the back? The ambulance broken and lucky to still be alive? The manly man let another camel. Did he foresee that the only job he'd be able to find in the course of that year would be in the proper department, a twentieth century fox? Did he foresee that slapping those props back and forth between sets would lead to an audition which would ultimately required him to change his name to something more,

skill and probably not, but one thing is for sure the manly man could have never imagined the press conference. He would hold in his living room. Thirty five years later, the one conducted just four days after his surgery. There in his and see no home the manly man now with his manly name, but still no gold medal gave an Oscar worthy performance,

smiling bravely through unspeakable pain and talking with great confidence to the Hollywood press. He assured the reporters who gathered there that he was ready to get back in the saddle. He didn't show them the giant purple scar around his left side. He didn't discuss the lung that had just been removed or the four ribs that he was now missing. He didn't mention the sutures that kept breaking open every time he coughed or the bucket of phlegm and sputum, upstairs by his bed. As for the disease itself, he didn't even mention it by name: I've lick the big see before he told reporters and I'll Likud again. Trust me fellows. When I go out it'll be on both feet. The reporters were delighted. No one had called it. The big see before no one had ever dismissed it as nothing more than a mere,

nuisance. Surely, if anyone could beat the disease, it would be the manly man who reduced it to a nickname and sure enough. He did completing two dozen feature films over the course of the next twelve years, including the one that finally won him an Oscar, but here's the thing if you're gonna go to the all, with the really big see you'll need more than manly confidence. You'll need to stop smoking.

Unfortunately for the manly man. That was simply too much to ask, and so the man who had beaten the Japanese, the Mexicans, the Nazis, the Vietcong, the Mongols and too many Indians to count in too many western to recall was ultimately vanquished by a deadly horde of unfiltered camels five packs a day over the course of for decades and then some in the end, the man who shot liberty valets did possess the true grit to quit. Smoking today, there's a cancer foundation that bears his manly name along with a park in Newport Beach, an airport and Orange County and the credits of more than two hundred films. It's the same name, that's on the back of the gold medal. He finally did get in the hospital one month before he died in eighteen. Seventy nine a com

I shall gold medal embossed with the name that we all know today. Thank to the manly man's run in with a really big see a run in the changed his life and the really big see that ended it. It was a shame, but pretty good run all and all for the kid who was born Marian Morrison and died. A manly man named John Wayne I was in Seattle filming the fur first round of after the catch. A talk show that takes place in a bar. The set up with simple captains and crew from deadliest catch gathered to chatter, confer sometimes confabulate. I was the moderator picture. A pre hashtag Charlie rose but with cigarettes and whisky we were recording the show in real time or something close to it as though it were alive production produce

directors and camera men were milling about positioning cameras around the big table and setting up all kinds of lights, but I got sense that nobody actually knew what was going on happen once shooting began, and that turned out to be the case. The captain's sat down at the table They did know what was happening either. I wouldn't have called them nervous these were manly men to. After all, let's call em, fidgety and full of questions about how the day would unfold. I had no answers to give them. Unlike ships captains, I prefer states of confusion. I think they make for good television, and I said as much I also suggested that, given the setting, there were any number of remedies on hand that would take the edge off. Only one of the captain seem completely at ease, Phil Harris

who had arrived at the last minute and done so in style aboard a brand new Harley Davidson he'd walked into the bar with a garden shoe and smile on his face and said hello to each of the captains. In turn, before turning to me Phil? I said, has gone. I got nothing to say to you, MIKE until your ride, my Haug resistance was futile when Phil wanted something done they got done. Then, his enthusiasm for whatever it was that grabbed his attention was contagious at sea. He focused on catching crab at home. He focused on his boys, Josh and Jake. At the moment he was focused on his new motorcycle, something

It gave him so much joy. He just had to share it with me and he did he insisted upon by the time. I rode back into the parking lot. The other captains were in very good spirits, mind you fill, wasn't perfect. He had a temper, he rode fast and drove fast. Like John Wayne, he smoked like a chimney. Needless to say, cursed. Like the sea dog, he was he'd been the captain of his boat, the Cornelia Marie for close to two decades, and he liked to do things his way, but his way left a lot of room for other people. Once I ran into fill in LAS Vegas, I was speaking at the Con expo convention and fill happened to be there manning booth for a pulley company. During a break I wandered over and watched him talk to his fans. There were many of the deadliest catch fans who were delighted to see fill in person. They wanted autographs handshakes.

Harder to with their favorite captain the line grew and grew but feel had all the patience in the world for them standing behind display unobserved. I saw him focus completely on the person and of him. He found something new and original to say every time he answered questions that were way to personal. And stayed well beyond his required time. Waiting until the very last fan an elderly gentleman had gotten his turn. The gentleman called fill an american hero, Phil blushed, sign the man's hat and talked for a long, while some people are better than others that this sort of thing Phil was a natural. He handled the measure of fame that if he had brought him in the most genuine way. He acted as if he'd always had it

matter who you were. You always got the same Phil once and allay I attended some event. The discovery channel at sponsored most of the captain's were there, along with the myth. Busters bear grills. In short, all the usual suspects discovery, communications C, o David's, ass love was there to David's ass love overseas, the largest provider of nonfiction com, in the world and does so with an attention span that rivals out of a fruit fly. It's true. He calls meetings that might be adjourned a minute or so after they ve started. He scary, smart and not terribly patient with folks who don't keep up, he never sits.

Oh he's, always in motion and always surrounded by a human force field, a group of assistance whose primary task is to keep away those who might suck up his valuable time. I watched him rushed through the room, his retinue, following, like the tail of a comment. He had already reached the back door when Phil walked in through the front and what happened next is the honest, God's truth, David and fill shook, hands and started to chat. Thirty seconds later, there were still talking a minute later still talking people stopped what they were doing and started to stare five minutes later David and Fill were still at Phil was doing most of the listening. David was talking intently and we were all wondering what could the crab boat cap

and the media mogul possibly have in common. We watched in amazement as David and fill wandered off to a corner away from every one else. There they sat down and continued to talk. That was unprecedented. Every few minutes and assistance slid over to give David an excuse to depart every time, Dave wave the assistant away when Phil took out a cigarette and made as if he would lighted indoors. David walked him outside. They stayed outside for more than an hour standing there. Talking. Just the two of them, eventually after they said there, goodbyes Phil join me at the bar. You know who that was tell me. I said: Phil threw back a poorly made duck fart. That was the president of the whole. Damn channel actually is

He's the ceo of the whole damn network, as I write well whatever seems like a nice guy guided chatty but his heart in the right place. For me, it comes down

We know a real thing when we see it and crave it because it's in such short supply we seek it out, stand in line for a chance to be near it fans, Fisherman c e, o s. They all saw Phil Harris for what he was, the real deal, flawed and human and decent kind. When a monster wave sent him flying out of his bunk during a crucial run toward the end of the show's fourth season, Phil cracked, a few ribs, I can't breathe he kept saying while smoking one cigarette after another, there he was toe to toe against the bearing sea. He was in terrible pain, but with thirty four thousand pounds left to catch, he dragged himself back to the cockpit where he started: coughing up blood, a fact that he kept from his sons and most of his men please

don't say anything to my kids, he said to Todd Stanley, the cameraman who'd spent years, filming Phil. Why taught asked pointing to the Bering Sea Phil said because I don't want them thinking about anything else, but that were one of them will get hurt, Phil it up finishing his northern set then made an hour run to his western strings, where he told Todd it's different when its yourself- and you are sitting here. Believe me, this is like a crew member getting hurt. I've got an obligation to the people. I work for to these guys to their families the whole ball of wax riding on my shoulders. Twenty four hours after that he finally cos into hospital- I can't get in for a couple of days. He set by the time that he finally pulled it Saint Paul with his men and their catch he'd, been in paying for sixty continuous hours down at the hospital

was given a one in ten chance for survival, along with the cracked ribs, he was diagnosed with pulmonary embolism, a blood clots that had travelled up from his leg to his lungs. It should have killed him. I suppose you could argue it did a few years later, the big see didn't get him. Neither did the big see, but those little sees he'd been puff

Since he was a kid hadn't done him any favors anyway, back in two thousand and eight Phil Harris recovered, he didn't quit smoking, maybe he couldn't, but what he did do was continue to take care of his sons and his men. Steven Spielberg told David Zaslav, who told me that the way Phil had acted after his injury was one of the bravest things Spielberg had ever seen, but the way I look at it fill was just trying to get to the end of his story his way and bringing his viewers along. The ride. He really was one hell of a captain of shouting with sick answered in mere moments. In the meantime, if you want to see something really manly Google Micro underwear, I'm not exactly proud of what pops up, but

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that we had been recording for the last twenty five minutes, because what you would have heard gentle listener is the sound of two manly men slowly losing their minds as technology once again conspires to drive them insane. Sig, please tell me you can hear me. I can hear you fine, thank God. How are you my friend, you know I'm, doing all right these days we are back from fishing and yellow opening up a new chapter in our life.

Another granddaughter on the way or or son, I'm not sure which matter of fact. I probably should we be saying this, because it's not public yet, but there may be a new Hansen baby on the way here. Well I mean they're gratulation in advance and be it seems like every time I talk to you. There is a new chapter of sorts. That's either. Either beginning or ending, and you know I mean we ve had a version of the conversation I want to have with you right now for the last fifteen sixteen years it seems, but, having listened to the chapter that you just listen to, I was thinking If I'm gonna have a conversation about,

being a man in the twenty first century. Who am I gonna talk to and dumb, and this is fifty one percent compliment forty nine percent insult recast. Guess I don't even know what it means anymore, but did I I have I'm not even sure where to start this with, but for it to say that I think you might be the most famous fishermen in the world right now and I think if somebody asked you fifteen seventeen years ago before all this crazy started. If something like that could ever happen, you would have after you might even taken a swing at them, but not now we did laughed the first time, brought it up to us and I have swung them so yeah right on both sides as usual, so you just list

no chapter about John Wayne and your dear friend Phil Harris who I was lucky enough to know for about ten years or so, and let's start with John Wayne, I mean I don't know Any of this about you, but are you a movie fan? Were you a fan of his well? You know every I'm having a John, when you think of the western of course, and the euro fathers generation you be, come fans of, because my father was a euro to me of sorts. Obviously you you just become a fan vicariously through them, right. You I mean Mohammed Ali, for example, should will you growing up for this kind of man

figure and- and this note a rioting- and he was truly a man to me because for many reasons at Vienna, politically and in the whole nine yards. That being said through my father- yes, of course, John Wayne and then we are of Norwegian descend. So you know you, in the old country. My grandfather, it was John Wayne, John Wayne or Johnny Cash Europe. Things like that, so that whole era that do you know of the men they men. Ah yeah. I was sure spoon FED all my life characters like this, and even though you may not know all the details and an end some of those things you know it was just one of those guys that was a heroic historic figure and that's how I grew up. But it's the alchemy of it. That makes me most interested ivory.

A lot of books on Johnny Cash. I've read a lot of books on Mohammed Ali and I'm with you, incidentally, both of those guys in very different ways: is a pity, my something that is inherently manly, but it's always for me anyway. It's always a question of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts like if you, if you break down Ali and Johnny Cash and John Wayne and fill Harris and whoever you want to talk about, then you just went up. Attributes on a page. The thing that made me want to write about John Wayne wasn't any of his attributes. It was this weird mix. Off, and I swear sake. I dont know when it happened for you and your probably not in a position to answer the question, but there are a lot of people who look up to you. And they see you in the wheelhouse and they see you as a father and a husband and

and they say you struggling and all of a sudden. You go to another level where people actually give them about what you think and they and they want to get into your head- is I'm trying to do right now and that has to be a trip for you what a blessing and, of course, at the same time, obviously in all others, what was a spider man said great power comes great responsibility. Is nobody said that movie reactive, always a movie, but so yeah yeah I mean he might have heap. He might have been loading. Somebody said you might have been on mergers your man was really laid down his own philosophy, but ok. I know I just my my movies spider man back there, you who said it We were gonna of much of the great, it would have been sounds like a manly man domain, but look went wedding now asserts that money

go when I was going to say when in doubt, Abe Lincoln, Mark TWAIN, H, L, Mencken or that's it. Those guys said everything I mean number one. You know in this. Age, you know when you when you asked me to participate and unrest, other, you know the clip through about John Wayne and then the analogy was still and and and and all that- and you know I told you earlier- they brought a tiered my. I really did. That being said, then you're going to speak frankly about What it is or what I feel it is due to be a manly ma. Am I guess that's what we're getting out here and I was afraid, even now, participate.

Really, and I know that I'm walking a fine line here when I say that- and I can compare two members in my family- I have Son- was for example, Ah, I have nephews bomb. You know an end You know a man. Do you know where she grew up in a neighbor here there are tons of boys around the house all the time. All the time you don't work because the all than ever, kids in my own. No, this is where the game and tons of guys I've watched them grow up. Some are more manly than others in the end is just such a sensitive topic, because I feel that in this day and age you know if you don't pay your tone. Ah you can't always be yourself. I suppose, is what I'm saying because of persecution liability

A little thing called the internet where people speak their minds without thinking about what they say and it is just is just a click of a button and a sudden, you know you're you're criticised, and it is a very scary thing to have an opinion these days. But if it's a point were drawn Yet that is what is mainly manner. How did you know? What is it to be one which thank you for the compliment? Yeah I'll go there, but people may not like what, but I have to say, oh, but since when have you given the damn honestly, that's part of it right right, I mean look as it as a guy on tv you see I think it's a real mix of stuff and and whenever you sprinkle fame into what is already a fairly complicated conversation. Then you just take it to a completely different level, because now it's it's just not Sigurd Hansen, a guy.

With an opinion. You have a personality, that's larger than yourself and, as you said, before, it's a blessing and occurs, but as a fisherman and a cap and a person who for seventeen years has been in the public eye. Have you started to pull your punches yet? Will you ever pull my punches? What do you mean as far as like? Well, you just said it before: there are some things you said you have to know when to bite. You you have to know when the bite, your lip yeah, the internet is a threat, but it's it's not just that. It's your talking about discretion,. And the men I know them the men. You mentioned right at the very top of this Johnny Cash Mohammed Ali right these you know what think of those guys, I think, of people who always spoke their mind but

itself, that's not really a manly quality and in fact, that sometimes a selfish quality. You have a thought. You say it. Let the chips fall at some point: prudence and thoughtfulness indiscretion. You know whether your crab boat captain or a movie star, you're navigating. We know how to navigate the Bering Sea, but How do you navigate your celebrity in this day and age? That's what I'm getting at. Yeah, I think now and in its sucks to no end. I can't explain: do how hard it is to filter your opinions. Are your ear, your voice? I do filter and I think about a more and more more because you know after this many years in the in the public eye- and you know it's it- it's

It's a lot of fun to do its job and innocent a job on top of our job and his great. But as soon as I walk out that door, I have to filter and and its and it's not fun and so sometimes have to time we're thinking it. My being me is this me: maybe if a guy has a couple of drinks, the filter kind of goes desirable right, I'm Ino, but at the same time be a weed. I do have to filter more and maybe that's age. Maybe that's, hopefully more maturity, it'll, let's hope so. But that being said, and that's part of also being responsible in being a man, I would imagine in this day and age, and you have to change with it. Yes, but you also have to adjust for the camera. John Wayne was born Marian Morrison now the same guy but his life as a celeb as Marian Morrison. It just doesn't.

I think a name is an incredibly powerful thing and I dont think we'd price. Ass the reality or our reality, of who John Wayne was. If we see the, if you never changed his name now, you never had to change your name, but you had to, I think, tell me if I'm wrong but feel died in what two thousand eight right wasn't. Fifty two or three years Yeah now we're so things got. Things are very, very real, very fast on deadliest catch up to that point, Everything was always high octane, the stakes were always incredibly high It was always a real simple. You know you can't script. The bearings and we knew as producers of the show, and we knew that there was going to be tragedy all the time nobody expected filled to die the way he died in such a

in such a common, reliable human way and after that happened- and I do want to talk about that. Obviously, but I also want to talk about the fact that suddenly It seemed like you guys needed a different level. Balance in your life and there you are dancing with the stars and there you are doing a Pixar movie and there you are all these things that the traditional trope of a manly guy might not do, but you were doing them and I thought that it just made you much rounder and much more human

and then I really do mean that in the sincerest compliment I can offer it made him more interesting right and then- and I thank them. Thank you for that. I think at the same time one one feel past you know all the sudden. Nobody wanted to admit that we are getting up there and in an age that You know the scales are starting to tip and you know everybody's got a bucket list right, like there's a lot of things that I never did in my life that as a kid I dreamed about that would have been and Phil. I think his bucket list started as soon as he made his first dollar. I think that's when his bucket list started. You know he was never afraid to go out and have fun and just do it. I think I was much more conservative, but at the same time I think everybody changed. I changed having a heart attack or two two: wasn't it

yeah, but not everyone see, you know, like you know little about the big see and when I think about fill in the smoking in the lifestyle and. And all that, and I just can't help to go back to this day and age, and this mentality, and I must say in that you know people. I know people are judged mental that bothers me, but at the same time that's just the way he was that's the way I am to this day and that's the way the dupe was right in and not that you can justify, but that lifestyle was there. You grew up in it and and for a guy like fill the just leave it Was poor and cry sake? Elvers did, I'm not saying is right or wrong. I'm just saying that was his choice, but in this day and age is just

universe. It's it's terrific! You know what I want, my goodness, you can you know smoke or do that or that that's bad for you. We know that an and fill knew that and and so I also throw caution in the window with everybody. I'm I'm gonna be me and, and now that I got to see what happened to him, not a good thing. What happened to me? We had all, then you think about your own mortality and then you and then you quit smoking for awhile I did over here and then right back at it again.

And- and I've asked myself- this question is: is this a persona? Is this, who I really am, is or is it just? Is it did I label myself as a young man wanting to be like my heroes, did feel labelled himself because he was around by the same type of men and then, if that's the case, then why can't you change your behavior so that you are a better man which is what I pray for every day because of the lost that I've had my life, not just fill, but many others recently and Sawyer. You know you, you do want a better use of I'm sure. John Wayne wanted a better himself. Maybe what is it

No well, it got me. What can I do right? Are I well, let's you can all go out in style. Instead, a crying about it. Didn't cry about. Phil, certainly didn't cry about, though we manufacture of you know. You mentioned this guy's. I turned the cameras on let's make this happen. It is what it is, and I think that is like this, I think, does a beautiful thing. You know my father was the same. Like my mother was the same way. Oh, I already had cancer. That's too bad. I hope we can get through it. It's not this holy shit. Let's get on Facebook raise money for the kids right out of the gate and all hope is lost in the tears are shedding of that way. I'm sorry! Well, you know, there's a macro and a micro to almost everything and what happens Think in our world is that there is a rush to get to macro, there's a rush to those

ok wait, a second. The cameras are rolling. We have a platform, we have influence, and so you don't get the time you would normally be allowed to be human. You have to immediately get to them. Point where you're doing and saying all the right things. The network is pro, we got away in, we might want to focus group. A couple of replies might want to bring in some eggs birds to go ahead and do a little research and see how sick resonating in the heartland with right. It's like none of that stuff is his manly club sixth sense, because it's all produced and it all managed and it's hard to find like your your own man when, at this in time. You aware that there are a few million people watching you and so is sick,

at just a cigarette, or is it now a profoundly irresponsible choices it selfish or is it is inhuman? Is it personal, you know, what do you give em way when you're in this world, and I swear SIG, I mean, like I said we you and I have talked about this before, but I still can't really articulate the impact that fills death had not because it was tragic. It was but because it was common, this uncommon man died in the most Banal of ways and embolism really he survives how many rogue waves he survives, how a bomb cyclones. He made it here your extraordinarily dangerous job real for everyone, because in the end he showed us that

danger, the danger was around every corner overtime agreed. An end. You know at EL, let's face it here. You know fill in the beginning to show he was the guy he was he was on. Top man I mean he was the leader and interviews here. A week ago promoting the programme and all that that's right. One of the rapporteur said you know a few. Was there when he was he was the lily. Was the head honcho. You know and they said it in a way like I'm not insulting you, but wouldn't you agree, he was ahead haunt juggle, well, yeah the guy has we buy ten years would not just that in age and experience, but on the show here you know him the guy that everybody wanted to follow. He was you know he was just bigger than life for most people. It honestly and yes, I will to fill them, basically that has failed to step in his shoes and bigger

man like you, know what I mean again anybody buddy, Stepan anywhere. You know we're all just Do our own thing, and so it was flattering decided to say the least. At the same time it just it was a twist on it and I felt like it. You know we're not complete t be here were competing out in the water. And we're friends on on. Unless he just didn't, you know, there's more. Anybody is the simple truth and so were I just bought like, but for him to say that some years later I feel like that legacy lives on in that image. And it wasn't even an image that was created, it was an image that was exploited, feeders, exploited. Here's what you tell a reporter, like that, I can't fill his shoes, but I can follow in his footsteps. Next question: right: you, Egypt, because

the rapporteur. He or she there in a very similar competition, does not look for crab they're. Looking for copy they're, looking for clicks, they're looking for life and are looking for shares in the way to get that is to reduce you, men in to this simple list version of your on camera selves as possible, because they don't want people to have to think too hard. They don't want the layers to have to come off. They want at a glance for the viewer to go up good guy. You know I can tell you- is wearing a white cat o bad guy. Let's make Steve Harley Davidson the bad guy. Ok, let's make wild bill the unpredictable guy. Let's make fill the father figure, let's make SIG the carrier of the legacy right and so,

yeah all of that stuff. It's all fair. It's all part of the game. You must be this tall to get on the right, as they say in Disneyland, and you are that tall right, but what they don't plan for and what they don't tell you about is wholly crap. What if this. Works. What, if you're still on the year, seventeen years later, SIG you're on the air sector, teen wherein it I've been there? Michel for seventeen years. You been there since the jump, so you know heads up man you're. Here entering a phase of your life right now, where were people in this country, desperate for insight and advice? If you have an already noticed, they're gonna become an out you from every angle. They want to know what you know They want to know whether you know where the landmines are and you're gonna need an answer will therefore talking about

being a manly. They men and I still filter myself. Then it's not gonna work, because you know it's just not gonna workmen. It's like ok, I'll, give an example. And then maybe to me this is my version of a man. They met for myself, quick story, so were the unity. You know it very well guys rough. One celebratory dinner before we we had out. I think it was a couple it is. We went out whatever was anyway and and This will avoid the celebratory dinner. You have a celebratory drink and none of US fair, very well when it comes to that one thing leads to another guys you go on at it. None there was there was a young guy fan and does it years ago and kept You know every time you went know every time you keep coming out and test for pester, and course, by this time I'm irritated and- and you know well on my way-

to being the other guy and then went out again and copper stand there and I just just lit up and I feel this hand slap me on my shoulder bank dry determine around or something like that and instinctively I just turn around, and I just the hidden no square in the in the nose and anyway, on the ground and then- and I went on boy ever Goin, and then a cop that were standing, there are looked at me and he goes it turns around. I see nothing come to find out It was a big fan, fine, and then we had all couple guys scrape up and then- and we go about our business. I was trying to avoid it. The next day I have my guys go out, find out who this person was come to find out. If your good kid

just stupid, and then I have my guys taken out bottom dinner, formerly apologized boy and he apologized as well for being a pest- and I said you know maybe punching out- was the right thing to do, but that was my reflex action at the time now thirty, forty years ago, no big deal twenty years ago, no big deal TAT day, wholly her pretty big deal, not only are yours caught on cold celebrity and we look up to you because you're the man they man, which I get it and its flattering, and it's you know, but then,

Do you know, there's other man or do you see what I mean? There's lots of different layers and a man they met this one. This time happened, lay flat on the ground, not proud of it, but it happened and at the end of the day we were mainly men enough to shake hands have a dinner. Map Rony, yet no, no, no! No lawsuits! Now, thank God. The pop was man enough to just turn his back and let it all right. Ok, ok! So that's Grammy! Now look it's a it most of the confusions and most of the drama. I think that happens in situations like that is not because of what actually happened. It's because of how quickly the times have changed in it. In a relatively short period of time there was a thing called consequences and consequences,

thing that happened when disrespect unfolded in a deliberate way. Not so long ago there were duels, there were duels between men of of breeding and character. Politicians. Of course, you know there was social lubricant. You stood when a woman entered the room, it's not just about holding the door. It's like all that stuff all that convention, has shifted and so guys, like John Wayne and fill harris- and

you yourself, wind up becoming victims of the time they didn't evolve as quickly as the social mores did so up there in dutch harbour, yet unity. The rules were different. The rules didn't evolve as quickly as they did here in San Francisco, where I'm sitting and on that tried to reduce this to a caricature of itself, but you become annoying you get hit in the face. A cop sees it. Ah, you know he asked to make his decision all at all. Your point that can happen today and it can happen on steroids because of your celebrity and I'm not I'm not saying it should happen, but the fact that its changed that's part of what you gotta navigate to and that's all those a rough waters, man it's rough waters and it's pretty bad. When sometimes you feel safer, you know with

eight locked then actually going on the other side, and then wandering out, you know, or you feel safer in forty foot seas and you do then I'll go out for a burger or something like that. That's I mean it's getting to that point for me but, like I said, maybe its age maybe that. You know you you're more aware of what's going on around you, whereas if you're a young man in your twenties or thirties, and you never worried about the world and in which way at turned. You focused on work money party, no definite do think it do you think the mistakes that you ve made are as important as the successes you ve experienced. Well, we ve made more. I have made more mistakes than you know that I can count and I'd. I dont

have regrets at all. I mean I know I've learned from them and, like I said, I wish that you. I want a better myself, I really do The whole has always been a huge issue for me as a young man, a teenager feel the same way. Huge Jonathan, any one of us and in- and I know that when I think about my behavior, especially the young, younger guy, when I look back and as in I reflected- I think you know every problem- whether a beer just taken ugly girlfriend unclear what you gonna do, I'm just kidding there are beautiful. What I'm saying is careful. The hall was always a factor,

de- the mistakes being made to me and saw was like when I took me this long to figure that out right was the answer. Stop drinking the blue, and there is going to make you better person. Probably, but then are you guess, they're gonna have the you know those two mistakes. I stood another fun times at you that you have had you know when you with friends and family and having a good time in Vegas or whatever I mean as long as you realize it, and you and you can and you you're not apologizing for yourself but you're, trying to better yourself, because you see those mistakes, it's great business. I've made so many mistakes in business. I couldn't imagine now we're doing very well and we have a lot of great opportunity. You know- and so I feel proud of that. But I don't just like fishing.

You're not going to guarantee anything that you're never going to you know you just never know you can never count on anything. You know I would never take it for granted. I've never done that, never will even in summer in adventures that we're on never take it for granted is just the way it is wise. Lies quitting smoking. So hard is it. I mean. I don't mean to ask him an obvious question, but something you just said made me think that you know is. It is truly a chemical.

Addiction or is it a leverage issue, or is it the fear of becoming somebody different? I think will miles. I think somebody different as I think that's what it is for me last night in us. Let a watch television with my wife and I wanted to go outside. Never smoking and start fidgeting in his nervous wreck. Anything about it. We had all like. Is that me, I think of our time, but that doesn't? It is an image of you buddy. I think it's like is this, who I am and is this, who I want to be? The answer is no, and the answer is no every day but the so then it then depressions that's in and the whole nine yards as far as when you're on on the boat like you know, fans have seen at a million times were his legs were shaking and he's just got one of the ash ruin his mouth and one in his ear

Thus, I desire, I literally saw fill with it with its with the lead singer behind his ear like a pencil and he had one near the wheel and one in each hand I mean he was a human Jimmy S disgusting It's very habit forming. They say that there are worse than the heroin or some of these drugs out there in and I dont know I'm but never done. Drugs like that. So is. Is it's really hard about what happened Leverage I mean. Did you ever read a story? Stephen king wrote this years ago it was called a quitters ink and This is an organization that had a one hundred percent success rate in helping people quit smoking, so what they did

as they were all former like CIA special ops, guys who ran this organization quitter sank, and you would sign a piece of paper and you too great a play by the rules and dumb and and they would basically monitor you and that very sophisticated monitoring equipment. And if you, if you let a cigarette, what they would do is take a finger off your kids and and send it to you all nice yeah, and if you let another when they might do something really unpleasant with your wife and things got very, very dark very fast, but the point of the story was in the end. We can put anybody on the couch we want and we can talk

about not being ourselves. We can talk about chemical addictions and all this other stuff. I wonder if it's really just a question of leverage where I leverage myself with with grandchildren right is like every time I I you know, I see a pitcher see his face. You know I've, just I just unlike what a schmuck you know. Don't you want to be around an end, and so I did I do. He'll trip myself, but I hear from other people but would like you ve said before you know. You know when you, when you get this kind of notoriety right, doesnt matter you go on you're gonna, get it and you're gonna hear it a hundred times over, and something that you already know instinctively. So

I was just what it's just what I don't. I can't put my finger on a pal. I remember my father is more pall mall and when I was a kid, I used to take those big cases that we wouldn't they wouldn't buy cartons. It was case cases right pieces and Mercosur tax free then bring home and I remember, thrown a box a case number thrown off the roof. Gonna want to quit. I wanted to do understand that I hated them that much. How old are you as well, I would say I was quite ten eleven years old at that time,

you were not at all a roof, really easy. The attic. As we had a week. There was a rabbit cage and then we had a little like a shed and then the roofs and was just bang. Bang Bang took those allow made dollars, they were worth and run off the roof right on the driveway. Would he do yeldo Norwegian kind of just shook his head and then just like did one of these, and that was it. You know I've figured he was gonna, really lay enemy and and beat on me, but he didn't, you said, Rebecca cage. Will you do with eradicate with money rapid? She knows it: freedom problem. Even if your hungry sure I feel like I'm right, I feel I can readily version learning something. Do you see? This is

I'm sure I'll manly. It is for the most famous crab boat fishermen in the world to confess tat he grub with bunny rabbits in case they were cute but really did Did you guys eat them, because I know a lot of people who raise any rabbits away and they had their like. We always had the dry fish saw you know you what you were dry, the fear you fillet it and then you'd have dried fish hanging in your garage. You know, so I made a smell like a pretty horrible site. I may lead You can imagine neighbours covered over my what the hell is. This is legal lottery, but anyway with looks. I just I just want people to go, join me with the image currently burned into my retina of a young sick crawling. Of a rabbit cages with a case of pall, mall honours arm up on the roof, to throw it off to to show

his dad just tell worried he was, but I mean obviously here here. You are too what forty years later, you know what your grand could marry a cat. Are you kidding me you're, you're, you're, holding up a package camels that was That was John wage. That was the one now when you gave me that clip like I said I had tiers of my eye, because when you, when you, when you flip through over to fill and then I started thinking about this horse shit and then the two and I'm just like. Oh my god, you know look anyway. It was now look man, you know what I actually I filled kind of, but I called you away

go and ask if we could talk about this in you said sure, because in my mind the thing I remembered most about the chapter of course was fill an David's, ass love and that meeting that they had. You were there by the way you were there when David's, ass love and fill Harris wound up. Looking for an hour which no one has ever seen before. David does dogged anybody for an hour. But then I thought about oh man, John Wayne, cigarettes, Phil Cigarettes big, see the little sea, and now here you are couple heart attacks dealing with all this, so I didn't. I do want to put you on a couch or anything, but but I do realise that you, you really do my friend have a front row seat to every aspect of this topic from fame. To cancer, to heart, attacks to cigarettes to being under a microscope in being seen.

As a manly man among men, and you know no pressure dude, but we're all watching the raw waiting see we're gonna do there you go, and then you know that I suppose you feel for me personally. I feel like a weaker manly man. I feel like I'm not living up to my expectations of others. My wife included soil. So when you, when you toss these things again, is it for the people outside the door? Nor is it for me, it's gotta be for me right and then grandchildren and of course you know my wife dinner bottom bottom line. Yeah, do you toss them? First, everybody else

and the answers now you gotta do for yourself. You know what we ve said this about safety. Before to you, you can't care about somebody's well being more than they do and if you're on the other end of it, you can't let somebody care more about your safe do that you do because that's the beginning of complacency. That's when people get her whether its vocational or whether it's just through person. Choices. You're right it starts with you. It has two: where else could it start right? Other end, the fact that it, you know I've done it improves.

Gained about fifty pounds but whatever and the fact that you can't do it again. I feel less of a man because I haven't done maybe witches craziest thing ever say I you know, I don't know. I think I mean I want you to quit. Everybody who cares about you wants you to quit, but at the same time the you you're, weirdly sensitive. Then you really are, and I didn't I didn't see. You know what I actually saw the first time it wasn't on the show and it wasn't in a mainstream press interview. It was a year ago in March. Maybe it was April this month. I think, do you remember when we did the first episode of after the catch asked

the lockdown locked down to just started. I was sitting right in the sea. The network was an absolute panic because the content just ride up and I talk to Nancy Daniels there and said you know why? Don't we just do a show for my couch or something we gotta do something and the like after the catch is still sitting there anyway, you guys were all game and I think we did probably the first zoom shell in the history of tv they made, it had happened very fast and in that first episode I ask you straight up how you were how you were firing. You told me about your mom living in

house about being scared to death to see her about sliding food under the door, and you literally wept and you you, you stared straight into your computer. And by extension about him, two million homes said the I'm scared. I am really know shit frightened, and I thought that that was a really important thing for people to hear. Just in terms of setting the table, you got my attention with it and I guess that's part of being met.

I think I did so. I think of you can be true to yourself. I'm learning more to be true to your feelings. I suppose the one thing cameras have taught me in your industry. Television is that you know if you just let it go, be yourself and not be a different person one. They point that little thing at you. You know. Obviously it sells tv. We know that, but at Saint on you learn more about yourself, don't you know, and I think you know you go that way. So I reminded one of the greatest

more than my wife, yeah yeah yeah, as we know that the note, but that the movie wasn't no book she uses of it. You were made, you tell me: what's the notebook, ok, we're on the boat were wait now flowed guys got this digital stuff taken click through whatever Nova came up, we're waiting for offload and ass. I watched it never seen it before I heard it was a very touching movie right, no idea. Anyway,

I'm in tears just there I mean the water works, and you know you know, as a know say you might want to watch this movie. So she wants a few days later, and I said, hey did cry cry what cry why she never cries and if I'm sitting on this very couch and all of a sudden, I'm trying to hide and I'm trying to hide you no tears and she's over what? What is your problem there very sensitive? Why, Phil was very sensitive. Piazza you I'll buy, did know him nearly as well as you, but he was man. What is it with you guys why? Why is it that you can take almost any clue about captain and shown the right, Mcdonald's commercial at just the right time and they'll be blubber like a ten pound baby girl, then everyone,

goes goes out there and one is one its attack time and when its attacking you, you just suck it up and in an attack harder. You know when is blown fifty sixty. Seventy lesson is weird guess I mean or an unless Einstein's right. You know every action as an equal and opposite reaction. You know and if you're the captain of a crab boat and job is to sail right into the teeth of the gale and suck it up and risk everything often and I guess maybe you know when your guard is down next thing. You know your putting spider man and you're the unique and you got your lower lip, their quivering and its lights and you're watching the friggin notebook.

Z, our I'm sorry, you're gonna start charging me for therapy. That's what's gonna happen here, look man, I'm not sure whose getting the treatment to tell you the truth, because I always feel like. I learned something when I talk to you and The reason is because your em embraced the level of humility in the middle of all of this and honestly I'd. I respect that a lot You're you're not hiding the fact that your struggling with those damned cigarettes you're, not hiding it and you ve actually This is the other thing is forgive me, but it's a quick compliment, but you and fill both. I think, never mind the network, never mind the ratings. You actually take your nerve, your viewers, your fans, you respect them a great deal. You know

more than I gave you credit for early on, I mean honestly, I just got a bunch of crab fishermen. They don't give a damn, but at some point it turned you know, and and when Phil Dude, when Phil lay dying and he called Todd Stanley over and wrote on that piece of paper. You know pick that camera back up and finish the story that to me was one of the most extraordinary things I'd ever seen on television- and I mentioned in the book after His first episode, when he told the camera guys not to tell the crew not to tell his kids that he was in that much agony because he didn't want I'm taking their eye off the sea. That's your Steven Spielberg said

that? Was the single bravest thing he'd ever done on television, so you're right there, you are being vulnerable in ways that I don't think John Wayne could have afforded to do at the height of his popularity and you're doing things. I think that ultimately respect your fans, not everybody agrees with you, but but I think you ve been really. Honest through these last seventeen years in a way that ninety nine percent of the celebs No in Hollywood can even begin or approach where they could fill an iron, and most of the guys would agree that you know with the with the show my models always been fishing first. Camera second does just always been the case and will fill same thing, but he brought her to it

four level. With that you know, and at the same time it was pretty need to see that he did that because it look we're all eager driven. You know everybody every one of us as a fisherman is eager driven into Europe wanna prove that you're the best in some way shape or form fill out a big eager to- and you know- and I think may be part of that was just his ego talking. You know like among one out, I'm gonna big, I wouldn't put it passed him at the same time. He had no fear of the cameras.

Everything you see I was so natural. Do you know an end and who wouldn't aspire to be like that right? He taught me a lot of things about that and out of the gate and under its impressive you know, but at the end of the day he was still being himself were still doing the job first and then it was the cameras. After that you know, actors and all these other guys hats off, but they have to play that they have to you know, that's their job. You were fortunate to have a job. This is just a bonus, so it's kind of a pretty amazing things. Part of who do you admire these days. When you look around the country, the headlines shows whatever you know, I got to be on the apprentice with Trump for a while there that took a couple of three months, and I don't like to get in policy

just because I'm not begin to them anyway? But that being said, you know you learn. What did you grow? I thought the fact there. That when I was on that programme and the guy that I saw was was pretty much what he did, everything that he did and said then was the same as when he ran, and I admire the fact that he didn't hold back anything he wasn't trying to play for I must be re- might take a little bit too far other than the twitter and all the other stuff. But that being said, he did it. You know on the shows, and television will, of course, you're one of em but Steve Harvey. I think it's just friggin amazing because she's great what he would he what he did say weighing a book in his thing, and you know that the movie almost avenant baby, I think, that's cool. I think it's great, maybe view

the absence of victimhood is an interesting quality. You know I've never heard Steve Harvey bitch about anything. I've never heard him not that he has much to complain about these days, but look any of us could complain if we wanted to yet we ve been talking for nearly forty five minutes. You ever complained about anything. You acknowledge things. You know you talk about addiction, the same way you talk about the weather. It's coming, you know. There are metric pressures down waves are up blah about this that most people. I admire you kind of look around see which way the winds blowing play the cards. They get there's not a lot of excuses and look

I think I'll say this, not as the narrator but as as a viewer. The thing every captain I've met on that show has most in common is their complete lack of patients with excuses You know you say I am not complaining right now. I could start crying. I I went to the dentist the other day. I said some pain here and he too you're an x ray these, and I guess I've never had a before you ever Route canal. Oh you and then writer. So this morning, has six o clock has taken advantage of. A couple of days have been taken. Those antibiotics in others kick in and ass. They drew a hole in there and then all this past came out forget the word it's infected and I'm talking to you and I love you like a brother, but my mouth is on fire and it hurts in my ear in my jaw and now it's down in

neck. You know what I mean we're going to bitch about it, but I was thinking FUCK man. I want to get more ado, and it will look like that. I'm lookin, ok, how much a book and I take, and how many eyebrow involvement and they said you can take it altogether. Thousands like do that and then ok, mites gonna beyond mere give my shit together and anyway. I gotta wait. What do you like this? Is it perfect place to probably put a bow on this. But let me show you something, so we just started: shooting up dirty jobs again right, I've been outfit months now, I'm older than I've ever been in my life right in my life, I'm fifty nine years old and three weeks ago, I'm in the bow of Tugboat, that's being built amid a shipyard were upside down and I'm in one of these little steel honeycomb coffins with cutter just trying to cut

some of the slackness left there. You know when their purchasing together well, stop starts fallen apart here. Let me show you the same as long as we're a couple. A deuce complain see this right there on my shin, so I'm curled up like a brick pretzel, and I got this torch, and this boat and steal falls down on my way. Not hit my car heart and goes through it? You know in much the same way a sharp knife would glide through butter and when that hot steel hit, my Shin sick it hurts so bad. Two things happen. The first thing was I gasped. The second thing was, I forwarded. The third thing was I mean I immediately had a tear come down my face and then tell me this is ever happen. You with that kind of injury. All the pain went away because the

The heat I think caught her eyes. The nerves are an end. It went straight to might my Shin bone anyway, I got a whole in my leg now and now start and hurt again because the nerves are coming back and I've been sitting here for the last hour you gone, you know what I should have taken some add who respects, because my leg Reagan tellin me Many here you are with us, come out to your right now motif men. Well, you know what, if people don't take anything else from this, they should a nation. Understand that it even manly men left to their own. Prices will start complaining. Adam turned to two ibuprofens

season seventeen. When does this one? Does this madness start again when you back on here? That's twenty of April hair, Sir, that's a big one. It's gonna be bigger than I think, they're gonna didn't they already put the first step upon discovery plus yeah yeah, that's already been air, so no undiscovered pleasant got all of em, so the staminate look back and see how gorgeous I was for seventeen eighteen years ago. Oh my god, do you remember like the first couple of seasons? They would do these shots where you would you would stick your head out of the wheel house and there you know the breeze and your blonde hair would be snapping in the wind and I've like who the hell is this guy saying? What is that man. You can always buy more. That's the Meda

by a long, but you can always buy more here. They just take it from your ass shepherd on your head, you good to go. If it it's a beautiful hey, you know, make it. You know John Wayne were to pay most of his life. Is that oh yeah? You know what you can, google it one word there's a shot at him being interviewed on his boat, fairly famous store in a gust of wind came up in a blow it back in the photographer, took the shot and the future for later had to decide on the gonna put this out or might not gonna put it out Adam and he was tortured. He wound up putting it out there. Why didn't actually care? He hated the damn thing, but he wore because you know studio wanted him to, and so actually say. This is the place to leave it because, in the end,. In the end, the people don't really know what to believe when they see a manly dude on tv weather is where in a cab

cap or a captains hat or to pay weather is teeth or legal, pass or whether is welded is and laid off and me we don't. We don't know What they dont show us, but damn if this last year. Taught us anything man. It, sir. Dangers everywhere. Risk is real and we vote how to navigate our own waters as best we can and don't ever tat the man, the man on the shoulder when you're behind, because he might be zig Eddie in the face of the mother? Didn't eyes on the positive side or buy you a lovely dinner later and you'll be friends forever? I mean how many of your fans have have had the pleasure of getting punched in the nose by you. Tat gives that kid's gotta story he's gotta crooked knows, but at least he has a story area go see, that's the way to look at it like I love that

Congratulations on another season. Thank you for making the time to do. This, go get some medicine for your tooth, tell owner hello and Clark and Mandy and the whole the whole crazy clan good for you. You are like Ernest Hemingway living living life. All the way up that I will have the pleasure to know fill and he has been an iconic guy that I look back and I and I think, ok, you're no mistakes made a few, but you don't worry. I hear from job will in an people. Still are people are finding deadly sketch seventeen eighteen year old people are fighting for the first time and they're going on discovery plus and they're, watching it from the beginning, and there

falling in love with you guys all over again and there taken that ride. He still here. That's the crazy thing saw some. He still here that driver Arab beware, Do me a favor, I'm going to say goodbye, but don't hang up. I got to make sure we upload this thing cuz. If it doesn't go right, then I will have to kill chuck and you know he's a dear friend and I hate to hate to see you go out like this As for the rest of you, if you find my book absolutely titillating, you can download the whole thing wherever people download books or you can just come back next week in our region. Other chapter for free and talked to see. Body else plot from the dead so my misspent career and the bottomless resume sago. It was really nice you to make the time I do appreciate it. Things are fishing areas