Hey guys, it's micro. This is the way I heard it episode number two: zero nine. It's called whoops I did it again. The sub, act of this week's chapter is a guy ushered in a brand new technology along with a brand new way to work his contribution to the technical ages, unmatched in my opinion, and the fact that none of it would have ever happened without the monumental sacrifice of a single pig was the fact that I simply could not ignore his story. Is followed by another true tale of another transformational entrepreneur, this one, a guy. We feature on dirty jobs fifteen years ago named Bob Combs Bob, was also made famous by a pig and Bob spired me, among other things, to make the pig the unofficial, Mass God of dirty jobs to help explain

this weird link between these two seemingly disparate entrepreneurs and the pigs that made them both famous I've done something I normally would not do. I have invited back last week's guest. I refer, of course, to the delightfully controversial. Sometimes in appropriate, but always brilliant Tom Frank. As we learned last week Tom. Frank as a very busy career consultant to dozens of ceos currently trying to navigate their way through the many traps and pitfalls of Silicon Valley and he's not stingy with his advice or his opinions among his men. Many vocational forays. Tom ran the entrepreneurship programme at the University of Michigan for several years and established himself as a guy who actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to start. Ups is also old friend of mine, who made the rather Extror Mary decision to hire me.

Instead of Ryan Seacrest many years ago. Back when I was doing my best, impersonation of a game show host and he was doing his best impersonation, Hollywood producer. Suffice it to say that no guest on podcast has inspired more comments and questions than Tom and after last week's appearance, I thought it best to simply keep the conversation going self

What follows is another spirited game of connect, the dots along with some self absorbed, navel, gazing and seriously some of the best advice I've ever heard for any one, considering the pros and cons of starting a new business, also in the spirit of full disclosure I invited down back because last week he thought he was here to discuss the chapter you're about to listen to not the chapter we actually posted before he appeared on the shelf. Thus I thought it only fair to give him another crack at the subject at hand, in other words, Tom for us back, because in the words of that still popular Sean to Britney Spears oops, I did it again and it all starts right now and by right now I mean right after I tell you about an alternative to brick and mortar high schools that just my change your kids life. I'm talking about Kate twelve powered online

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it's a real chance to learn about real skills that are actually in demand today. I can't tell you everything: you need to know about k, twelve powered schools and sixty seconds, but I can tell you this when it comes to a practical, useful education. One size does not fit all learn more about stride, career prep, at K, twelve dotcom, slash row, that's k, twelve dotcom, slash, r, o W E. It's free, the success stories are real and the stakes have never been higher k, twelve com row. This is the way I heard chapter. Anyone Bobby brings home the bacon. At the Grammy awards. Britney spears forgot to thank the pig no Called her on it, but looking back the facts are clear: without that pig. Britney would have never sold a hundred million albums no way likewise spiels

bird would have never gotten Jurassic Park to the big screen and Neil strong would have never walked on the moon. Yet none of these people ever acknowledged the pig Bobby. On the other hand, he thought about that pig every day. Why? Wouldn't? He thanks to the PIG Bobby, died with a net worth of three point: two billion dollars and a product that had changed everything Fundamentally Bobby was a tinkerer and a risk taker, but not necessarily in that order when he was twelve, he built a box kite strapped it to his back and dove off. The roof of Grenelle College in Iowa, just to see if he could fly turned out he could for about thirty seconds. There was also the time he took a propeller welded it to the back of his sled and hooked it up to an engine from an old washing

she turned out. Motorized sleds don't fly either, but they do go after the normal sleds. Much faster Bobby was a tinkerer. You see a risk taker, but not necessarily in that order. And not just as a boy when he was twenty one. He volunteered to procure guest of honor for a fraternity luau under the light of a harvest, moon, low and fat in the eye with sky the young physics major regarded his options. Grunting running around in the muddy pig pen. There were so many to choose from the farmer, wouldn't miss just one swine, what he not twelve hours later, the guest of honor was tat. Slowly over an open fire roasting to a crispy golden brown with an apple wedged in its mouth. By all accounts it was a very successful Lou

but the next day a moral hang over weighs heavily upon Bobby what had he been thinking the pig and not been his to take, and yet he had taken it as the son of a preacher. He should have known better and so Bobby returned to the burgled big pen confessed his crime to the farmer and offered to compensate him If the farmer had let Bygones be Bygones. Who knows what our world would look like today? But, of course, the farmer didn't because stealing a pig, and I went back and nineteen forty eight was like rustling com

in Colorado a hundred years earlier. It was larceny, especially in Grenelle, where any physics major could have told you that every action at an equal and opposite reaction, like the good Christian. He was the farmer forgave Bobby Sin, but he still had to press charges even though the sheriff like Bobby he still had to arrest him, even though the dean of the college admired Bobby, he still had to expel him. As for the preacher who loved his son Well, there was nothing he could say in the face of such obvious guilt, and so he said nothing

but not everyone believed that the reaction to Bobby's crime had been equal or opposite or even just grant Gale a physics professor at Granel College came to Bobby's defense. He implored the dean, the sheriff the mayor and all the good people in town to rethink the penalty for purloined pork and find a punishment to fit the crime. In the end, the farmer dropped the charges. The sheriff, backed off and Bobby's expulsion was reduced to a one semester suspension

for some students that might have translated into a four month vacation, but not for Bobby, because in the midst of Grenelle great Swine scandal, professor Gale had received a very interesting package in the mail, a package that contained two prototypes from Bell laboratories sent to him by a grenell graduate. The professor was intrigued. He used one of the prototypes to demonstrate the flow of electrons through a solid in what turned out to be the very first college class offered in solid state electronics and the other prototype that wound up in the hands of a suspended senior. Who like to tinker and take risks, but not necessarily in that order. You see if Bobby hadn't spent endless hours tinkering with that prototype the first transistor.

Produced by Bell Labs. There would have been no small step for Neil Armstrong as APOLLO. Eleven would not have had an on board computer for Steven Spielberg there would have been no Jurassic park because there would have been computer generated imagery and for Brittany Spears. There would have been no Grammy awards because there would have been no auto tune. The exact details of how Bobby transform the modern age would fill a book about best written by physicist or someone who really understands how the universe works, but this much can be explained by me without Bobby's willingness to assume risks. All of his tinkering would have been for not because if you think diving off a roof strapped to a home made kite is risky. Try launching a start up and Silicon Valley before the silicones. Even there that's exactly what Bobby did

in nineteen sixty eight and even though you might not know his name, you know, what's inside inside your coffee machine, your life, four razor, your car, you're remote control, your kids, favorite toy, your fit bit your laptop and, of course, the smartphone. You can't leave home without it's the very same thing. That Bobby was tinkering with during his Here too, it is suspension from college. The same thing: they're still tinkering with today at a company called Intel. That's the legacy of Robert Noise, a man who like to tinker and take risks, but not necessarily in that order. But, let's not forget Bob's silent partner, but twenty five pounds: suckling PIG,

whose impact on our lives began with the brief appearance at a long forgotten, Luau America's Heartland, a pig whose sacrifice gave us a tiny piece of silicon. We call the microchip forty years after Robert Noise put a pig on a spit and transform the world. One year before I put a pig on a pedestal and transform my blue jeans, another Robert was doing things with pigs that could not be ignored, and so they weren't This Robert became the most popular character we ever featured on dirty jobs and those pigs of his. They finish the job that legions of tourists and gamblers could not. For fifty years, Bob Combs drove his ancient pickup truck up and down the LAS Vegas, loaded it up with uneven Buffy food from high and hotels and casinos and return

to his modest farm in North LAS Vegas. There in an otherwise normal backyard. He shovelled this boils into his massive cooker a towering rub, goldbergian contrivance that transported the Smorgas Board into a giant stewpot located three stories above the ground. It wasn't high tech, but it worked before long. The grub was reduced to a viscous Beige Alia base Bob told my field. Producer Barkie that the smell reminded him of a bakery. He built the entire contraption himself with parts cobbled together from local junkyards and so tons of uneven PETE. Food waste that would have wound up in the landfill ended up filling the troughs on his farm, thanks to Bob a city that traffic in excess suddenly

Had a conservation program worth bragging about, I accompanied Bob, as he drove that ancient pickup truck down from the cooker to the troughs with boiling slop, over the roof down the windshield and onto the hood Barkis eyes widened as hundreds of ravenous pigs descended upon the leftover I can still hear the crescendo of squealing and slipping that accompanied this wild and gluttonous seen it was epic just epic to this day. People ask me about Bob comes. I tell them that he was a cross between Jimmy, Stuart and Old Mcdonald. The live, embodiment of everything. Dirty jobs had set out to highlight a modest good humoured man, armed the extraordinary work ethic, a man who had found a new angle and thrived in a business with very tight margins. As grain prices rose square,

in all of the farmers around him Bobcat drawing from his endless supply of leftovers. It was hard work to be sure, but it was good for his business good for the environment and very good for the city of LAS Vegas, but when we first met in two thousand and six Bob was a man besieged by an army of angry Acronyms, Hsus EPA, OSHA, as well as his neighbors who wanted to close his operation down because his pig farms smelled like a pig farms, LAS Vegas was booming and a pig farms

wasn't what hundreds of homeowners wanted so close to their brand new homes. They didn't care that Bob had been there for decades. They didn't care that Bob was providing a valuable service. The only thing they cared about was the smell and making it go away. Developers fumed committees, formed petitions were circulated and hearings were held. The pressure to close down Bob's farm was unrelenting, Bob held fast and I'm glad he did because after that, dirty jobs episode aired. The developers tried a different tack, they pull their resources and offered to buy Bob's property. They offered him a staggering some seventy five million dollars Bob past Bob. I said: what are you thinking? seventy five million dollars. Bob replied yeah. But what would I do with my pigs?

I don't know, I said, kill em eat them, you're gonna do that anyway, right Bob didn't anything to say to that, but heard to me later that his real question wasn't. What would I do with my pigs? It was what would I do without them? Bob Combs had put his pigs on a pedestal years before I came along. He knew what matters most to him. It was the work you see, work that would have ceased had he taken the money work than to find him even though he was approaching his 80th year, work that he was simply not ready to abandon. I kind of like the smell. He told me. I guess I've gotten used to it. So I installed Express VP in on my laptop last month and it feels I've got a new machine.

Starters. I don't see any more ads for ten issues: coffee tables and dog biscuits moments after searching for ten issues, coffee tables and dog biscuits right. More importantly, A longer feel anxious about using my laptop on planes and in coffee shops. I the other day about some poor schmuck on a flight who was using the airlines wifi and got hacked his bank account, was drained before he landed and by the way he was using incognito mode when it happened. That's the problem with cognitive mode. It doesn't work, I don't care who you get your internet from Verizon or Comcast, or any local isp, even when you're in incognito mode, they all can still see every single website you have ever visited and they can all legally sell your information to add companies, that's why even when I'm home. I never go online any more without using Express VP and all I have to do.

Step, one button and unprotected from Ruth market, tears and unscrupulous thieves. Do yourself a favor protector. Line activity today with the PS raided number one by seen at an wired visit, Express BP and calm, slash row and you can get an extra three months free with a one year package that's express VP ended com, slash row Ex p, R s S Vps, dad come slash row to learn more So what are the odds that you sent Tom, the proper chapter and sums with accurate overview of what you have to accomplish with this unprecedented reductions. Well, I would say that the percentage of me, sending them the correct chapter, both this time and the previous time, one

I will give your apology anytime. Now I will apologize check because I could not find the chapter the Robert noise email. The problem is, I have the real book and I could have sworn that when you said were using new for the next chapter- that I flipped the page- and it was Robert noise right here I ve got out. I think you'd happened that guy looked at the chapter in the book, rather than what I said you here. I come to the conclusion that the whole point of having me back part of MIKE's plan to ensure that I read the entire book, not just the chapters where I mentioned. It's the only call like hey. Why don't you come back for chapter Forty three thousand great for forty eight cuz is really just might making sure that I read beyond myself,

And I really appreciate that? Hey man, it's it's not a pop up right. So it's a bold new for you in reading comprehension and look thank you for coming back you're here. For a couple reasons, reasons we're humbled and frankly, gobsmacked by the response to your appearance. Last week, my fast audience as you kindly. Scribe them. I dont think have many opportunities to avail themselves to the kind of sage council that a career coach would dispense. So once we corrected this whole life, thing and you established yourself as a career coach, we had lots of people asking lots of questions hoping to pick your brain. Secondly, I just wanted to clear up confusion because knowing you as I do, I imagine you took a pretty deep dive into a completely irrelevant chapter, but also to compliment you

just so casually dismissing my reference to Charles Manson, who I thought we were going to talk about this so cash really pushing it to the side, as if I hadn't said anything at all and then taking over the conversation is only you can do so for all those reasons, you're back and we're grateful well- and I thank you for that- and I'm appreciative of your efforts to sort of clarify the confusion about What I do, because yesterday I had the privilege of being a globally broadcast panel for Yahoo variety media where they thought they would be getting? my career advice and what they get instead. Well, no. Instead there were comments about what they have a life coach. Talking about this so and I will

screen, shot it and send it to you because far be it from me to do everything in my power to build your career up. Have you casually like to seize this to stretch and let it off the deck for Freddie to chase into the woods so the worm has turned. If you haven't listened to last week's completely spontaneous and unapologetically unscripted conversation between myself, Tom, Frank and Chuck. Klaus Meyer go back and listen to it. Now it's called the PO is about to hit the fan and boy did it. I don't honestly know Tom in terms of expectations and what I should be managing here. We ve never had somebody back to back before or or as Chuck would say, Bang Bang with referring to his occasional back to back meals, you're like a bang, bang here on the podcast and so there's no

no pressure, but I'm not gonna pretend to have an agenda, because now that I know your prepared in a way, I think I'm just gonna say back and see how much of my job you can actually do for me, I think saying dance monkey, dance, yeah! No, I get that job, but you know I gotta to admit. I am a little bit gun shy because now that I've made a tragic mistake of going to your facebook to read what some of your many fans have said, I told you don't go there, don't do it? How could I not do a shout out to the person who said I was the worst guest ever because I insulted MIKE, and am I so dense as to not understand gentle guests, that the only reason why they, Listen is because MIKE is so fan tabula, so there won't be any bank has this guy.

His gun shy right now. Here's the here's, the dirty truth about this podcast quotes like the idea was. I would have on interesting guests who would allow me to take a deeper dive into the biographical nature of the subject that we feature story, the proceeds my accidental memoir, what's happened instead is Chuck, has just taken it upon himself to interview me weaker. For weak on this podcast and it's not really the format that were committed to, but it's kind of. What's it's kind of. What's been happening, so The producer. I'd love your thoughts on the degree to which these self absorption at hand is actually detrimental to whatever it is. You think we might be trying to accomplish. Well, I'm pretty sure that checks, the most popular part the show. After reading all the comments either, one of us are going to be on

Three or four. This show that's my big takeaway. I will tell you other thing, it pertains to chuck after the Clever Spirit Animal bet last week, I was so bold as to go online and tell your listeners. They can do this. You can take a test actually online. To determine what your spirit. Animal is not that I wasn't flattered by pray I was horrified by my actual result? What is it would you like to venture just a wild gas, what My spirit animal is according to the official. What is your spirit? Animal test will, first of all, what sort of rigour does this test consist of nine questions pertaining to whether I like

earth better than water, or whether I resonate with air or fire, or whether I like large crowds or prefer to hide in Bob Barker Dressing room with a bottle of vodka. But the point is the really deep program questions. I will tell you. You are correct that my spirit, animal flies, but rather than being a bird of prey, apparently I'm a butterfly, I was going to say a mosquito who knew that a butterfly could even be a spirit, animal or a life coach or a life coach. So I devastated. I was looking for lion or tiger or yeah. I got butterfly, it could have been worse. It could have been

all I was going to say. You know I won't be here next week for sure, regardless of what you all do, but I wouldn't not to take the same test and maybe also share with listeners what your real spirit animals are. So no one has to make any conjecture anymore. All right, that's not a bad idea, but let me say in defence of this test, your you're in the business of reach. Birth and reinvention right, you're, helping people find their true identities with all of your collective wisdom in much the same way a butterfly transforms from the cocoons. The various stages and ultimately takes flight. I mean it's not completely without merit this notion that your spirit, animal represents the journey that your attempting to take your overcharged clients upon that's gorgeous, but rarely I'm just trying to keep them from getting fired. So me- let's talk about you- I'm not going to have three hundred angry people saying. Why do we talk about that? Guy again, let's actually

I do something that could be at least remotely germane. Let's talk about Robert Noyse, yet a famous c o I'd love your thoughts as a guy who, coaching ceos now like every day I mean forgive me for you're playing this last week, but you're actually you're all over this I mean I did a little deeper dive on your company and what you've been doing and who you're talking to and you're like every single day the advice business is kind of amazing. What would you have told Robert noise and what would you do the current big cheese it and tell if they came looking for advice. First of all, I would like you to tell me why you chose this story because I am a fan of Tom Wolf Tom, Wolf wrote an essay years ago on the name Sure of goodness why people do good,

things and how the motivation for doing good has evolved over the last century law. Story short. He argued that today, if a child is caught shoplifting, the parent will scold them and say look. This is a bad thing to do because injurious to the shopkeeper and if everybody behaved in such a polite. Society would evaporate a hundred years. To go the same parent confronting us. Child under the same circumstances, would say this is a bad thing for you to do, because you're going to help. If you do it, So the way we teach ethics had evolved Then I read all this in one of his many great essays and I just went looking for more wisdom from Tom Wolf and what I found was this peace. This nine thousand word peace written years ago about the pig Grenelle Iowa that ultimately change the course.

Silicon valley- and I just thought it was terrific- and so for me as a plagiarists I was simply trying to get nine thousand words down to a thousand and turn thing into a mystery and that's why I wrote it do you know what I think is interesting I may not know this. There are numerous similarities between you and MR noise. You both came from families with parents that were involved in education, strong articulate, mother, strong Father families and boys. You were both boy scouts. You both sang in quarrel groups. You both performed in dramatic endeavours- and you both have prominent knows- is although yours, has arguably been repaired recently, so I don't know, maybe that's where he is big and ESA, but there are

a lot of their lot of similarities between how you are both raised, you know he had a paper out. He had jobs from was a kid. So the reason why I asked I mean I love the pig story, but I was areas if you, aware of how maybe he resonated with you, because there are so many. Similarities well know and thanks for pointing them out with regard to self absorption. Clearly, I've got it so much of it resides on a subliminal level. I don't even think I'm aware of. Why am I doing half the things? I do but the other reason I wrote it. Tom is there's a passage in this essay. Where Wolf talks about him. Building these jet powered sleds and things and taking all these crazy chances- and I just as I read it know how sometimes when the pros is really really good, then this is open

this thing to say, but you see it in your minds. I with such clarity, but almost takes your breath away, and I could see this kid. Experts, fermenting on the farm. With the implement at his disposal, his his propensity to tinker maybe that did rhyme a little bit with last week, we were talking about curiosity and how you either have it or you don't, and if genuinely have it, then your to go in a completely different direction. Tinkering and curiosity to me kind of go hand in hand. So I think I was just enamored of his life as a boy and really interested in the unintended consequences of trying to make her a sled go away, faster than God intended, while its contributions are arguably more impressive than either yours nor mine, nor chocks, really the last compared

the resonate with me was a senior year. He received something called the Brown Derby prize winners. They have given to the senior man who earn the best grades with the least amount of work in a battle does it have micro written all over it. I don't know what does well. Okay in the interest of everything, rhyming there's a bit in my version of the story at a much longer ranch in Wolf when he talks about the power and the influence not just of your average peer group but of a fraternity, the influence of a fraternity, right, it's something I can't speak to because, as you know, with the exception of the boy scouts and the society for the preservation and encouragement of barbershop quartet singing in America, I've never joined anything, but you were a member of some fraternity, and I wonder what your thoughts art on fraternities today and whether not your boys will will venture into one.

If indeed they have an already both of my sons were members of fraternity he's, not mine, but I was a member of my father's fraternity beta a pie. I had an interesting expiring that you know I pledged in Mississippi, because where I started off for college and didn't have a great turning experience, because all of my expectation, the brotherhood and camaraderie. It was mostly just shooting guns and drinking in and that's not bad, but didn't really foster that sense of community. I guess that I was, when I transferred to the University of Cincinnati, I reluctantly affiliated with the chapter there. Those individuals are still the best and most loyal friends that I have in my life and so I think that fraternities now get about rap

like everything else, because unfortunately there are examples of hazing or kids making stupid mistakes, and I dont excuse any of them. But I think if you can find any kind of bribe where you find that sense of community, whether its alliance club rotary, I don't care Oh you are the boy scouts being part of a community is something that is a lifelong gift. Air cultivated properly I say this a lot. You know one people two impersonating a speaker. I do talk about the boy scouts and I talk about skills USA in the four ah club- and I say the same basic thing as long as there's the code, some kind of oath? Look that stuff so easy to make fun of, but it does matter you know that's why our foundation has a sweat pledge. You actually have to sign something, and you have to have to raise your hand and be counted so once you do that under whatever the rubric is, and then

if your buddies tells you to go out steal a pig or helpful the old lady across the street, or fill in the blank right you're going to be more inclined to do it. I think you can make the case that into Wouldn't exist right now, if there weren't a fraternity in place in Granel, populated by young men who persuaded Robert Noise, to do a thing that he might otherwise not have done and sell way leads on the way, as it always does its fund a revised the past. But what have you done in your lab? Where would you be quite an idea What have you done with your a while? totally different podcast noack, actually we'll get there. But when you were talking about the boy scouts, I don't know, if you, you know, you know you know at the we below level? And you want to know why? Because you pronounce that we below and set it on my blog

For example, when I heard I would with derby car, but they promised us at the order? Season? Finale was going to be that we are going to make leather of ass an one in a leather vest man. This is like late sixties, I don't know, maybe early seventies. I was just going to be rocking that letter vast and I got to our scalp. Masters and she handed us all a bunch of those brown grocery bags and said now we're going to cut along this pattern and we're going to just keep crinkling up this grocery bag and decorate until it feels like leather, I'm like I'm a grocery bag around the neighborhood scouting for me the yet a very different experience. Mrs Brigman, but you ruined by potential future crowd scouting smooth the way you know what I want fraternity. Brothers is still a big monkey muck and the scouts.

And his kids are grown, but I see his photos from the jammer every year you got to love those organizations and I do think better sense of community that looked to Bob noise to steal that pig. That was just kind of part of what people always expected from Bob, not stealing pigs, but we ve got an idea. Turn it into a reality. You're, the guy. That's going to figure out how to get this done, get it done right, This is nineteen. Forty, eight, the boy scouts in eighteen, forty, eight boy, scouts in nineteen. Seventy nine when I were in them were very, very, very different. Program when I were in them from a guy who nearly whore a paper bag that looked like letter when he was we Weber was we were from. We were from now on. Now, my point being that it's easy to paint the

eternity organizations or the overall thing with a very broad brush. Your results may vary right. Your specific fraternity may vary. My specific boy scout troop in nineteen, seventy nine was run by a former army colonel a boxing ring. We had mandatory shooting lessons wasn't a week that went by when somebody didn't go home with a bloody nose or a spring finger It was not a safe space and I can't even imagine what situation must have really been back in Iowa in one thousand nine hundred and forty eight coming out of the war. I mean it's just a world of possible and randomness and seemingly unconnected thing. Coming together. Sometimes a pig is just a big, so you take it because your buddies wants you to, but then flashing forward, your worth three point: two billion dollars you create

The microchip- and I think it's fair to say that it doesn't happen without the pig or the fraternity or a whole lot of other things. How do you feel about the fact that he went back the next day to express remorse and that remorse wasn't met with good for you for you for having better judgment, but we're going to be his unity It is possible now that you have basically can fast. I take it all the way back to Tom Wolf in the ESA that introduced me to him way before the right stuff before bonfire the vanities, the one I described to you, that's what he was talking about. He was talking about stakes and he was talking about consequences. So you still got credit in nineteen forty eight for going back apologizing and genuinely being sorry for it, but it did absolve view of the consequences your action. These were hard

ass people. These were righteous people were so much of that informing the community and so thinking about it when I wrote it, but I am fascinated by the fact that in our pair generation. There was a time when you could make amends where you could a tone, but you would still pay and virtually everybody in that community was on board with that. So he was going to pay a very steep price. It was grant Gale a teacher, not the teacher in my book, who kind of swept in did an end run, found a work around and saved that kid not from his actions but from the consequences that would naturally follow that doesn't happen today. That's not an we read about today, but it informed Bob noises whole life indeed, what's C o take today on atonement, vulnerable

versus consequences consequences. I mean first you know, Bob is referred to as the Mayor of Silicon Valley and Bob was not a shall we guy Bob build a house up in the hills that nobody could see and wasn't the castle on the hill. He did apparently we spend a lot of money on landscaping for his own enjoyment, but he was not generally a look at me guy. A lot of the management principles that he is two dead are still alive and well in Silicon Valley to day I'll, be at some of them and sort of a precious way. He worked to beat up desk, I believe in a casual work environment. He was not a fan of hierarchy. You know the first time that I became One of the big lessons was the most,

A person in the organization has to be able to raise their hands and say. I think there is a problem with this without fear. Otherwise, by the time the problem gets the coroner office. It's a big ugly, worst problem. Bob noise was a pioneer in a lot of that because you know every entrepreneur or many. He also had to go, seek money, and originally he went to the east coast. He went to the dandies and the people that were used to having limousine drivers, call hats and a lot of protocol. That was not who this guy was, and I think, a lot of the things that he pioneered weren't just sort of the brilliant technologies and what became Intel. But it was a philosophy, which is probably grounded in Grenelle Iowa. This is how you treat people. This is what you expect or don't expect, I'm sorry, I'm someone's back him

ass her right now. So it's ok. We only if Thou art a couple weeks ago about was I've been backing up, near your house for the last two hours flying off. Well, ok, look the reason why I like working with the Ngos, is I like working with people who are curious. And who are people who are humble enough to say I don't know the answer, because smart people will always go figure to find the answer. They will not front and there's a lot of the imposter syndrome that goes on in Silicon Valley, where it is very important to look a certain way. Act, assert certain way, hang with certain people, and I don't have a lot of patience for that rhetoric. So I think Bob is a great great example of somebody who did it within the boundaries of a system, but he did it his way and his way was straightforward. You think. Also, though there is some merit in it

acknowledging. What would Shockley did right noise work for shocking. Fair child right before he left the EAST coast before he left the establishment in order to forge this new call, it a casual Fridays approach to what would become big tat in the semi conductor industry, but he needed that experience at fair child in What or to inform this whole California promise he also needed, would what's his name, chalk, rabbits, Kirby or kill me was Jack he'll be killed. The YAP, who did too instruments I mean I don't know how much you know or care about atomic you'll kill. Me was working on the same basic problem as noise was, and they ever really knew each other, but they share the Nobel Prize Garret and would allow people a tribute to some kind of hive mentality. There was just so much focus on making, things small and so you don't kill. Me was working with us

germanium, germanium right, yeah and noises vote, on silicon, and we all know how that ends. We don't have Germanium Valley today, but my point is when you're giving it to a ceo a woman who literally has the potential to completely change the trajectory of civilized life. As we know it, we got mindful too of the time that wherein and where they're coming from, because to me There is as much stale wrong, broken and predictable with Silicon Valley to day. As there was with the EAST coast, establishment back when fair child was fair child. So I guess, if there the question is how do you know when to encourage disruption versus compliance well No I've never been a big fan of compliance. I and I think the environment there were now has a lot to do with the money and it,

become to formulate and its literally. You know when we used to go put pitch tv shows. We would put our costumes, we would go all studios, it's a perform, its act, this same is true of Silicon Valley. Only now you put on your blue vest your little zip up, vest and your t shirt and you go and do the same type of performance, art. The real disruptors need stay away from the obvious sources of capital. That's number one week the obvious sources of capital will, literally give you the we invest in people. We care about you, it's all about you until your company starts to succeed, and I literally told somebody that, on the back of my business card, I was going to write I'll. Keep you in the chair through the bee round, because financing happens,

I really would like the a round is the first money that you got to be around means you're, making money in your real company, and now people are going to throw in more, but that's also the point where all the people that are put in the money that we knew best friends start to look around and they're like oh wow. If this is going to be a thing or if this is going to really be disruptive or go public, then we need to bring in Barry or marry or sue to run. This place and founders are quietly shunted off. So in terms of advice for young founders. I ask him a lot about their cap tables. I want make sure that they can maintain as much control as possible for as long as possible, because as you see, control you, seed control and the first time that there is a bump on the road. I'd like to say that your new best friends are going to How can I help you get the wagon over the rut but they're going to say one too many people in the I get in there more than likely to leave you out the desert

so that's an important part of it. I was actually on a call with a venture capitalist right before this podcast, and I said you know the biggest difference and for me, is that I love so like to work on real problems. Ok, what's really going on with your CFO, why are you having the supply chain rate because I probably experienced problem and the joy- and this comes from being able to use my own hard knocks the hopefully help somebody avoid if you- and there is a real gratification and that its hard not to get excited when somebody gets twenty million dollars. After you rehearse with them until midnight about how they're going to ask for it? You move, the needle. I don't care whether you're produced sing a tv show counselor c o whatever your thing is, when you get feedback meaningful feedback that you can actually quantify

That to me is one of the single biggest things. That's fundamentally missing from so many people's lives. They're, not getting the feedback, never mind the feedback. They want they're, not getting feedback at all. I don't want that woman writing mean things about me, because we talked about me too long again. Let's bring it back to how you Bob noise are so similar, I got one better. You mentioned tv yup, alright, to bring it back to The reason I love writing this book was, I could rip off Tom Wolf ever so gently tell us I wanted to tell and then asked the question: not what this Bob noise have in common with me, but what other do I know or more broadly, how does the pig like, if I may, to take the position that the pig saved Silicon Valley and got Britney spears a Grammy, and that one was a little bit of a push. That's right, but it looks like I don't know: Wher the line is Britney, but okay, we'll circle back to Britt in a minute, but it's the pig so dirty jobs is a tv show. It's my tv show

and the mass gotta that show is a pig. So if Noise can sort of changed the world by killing a pig. What did you think of the other Robert in the story, Robert Combs, the pig farmer who who really became the most beloved figure on dirty jobs, whose business scene to be the complete and total opposite of a Silicon Valley venture but who nevertheless was fairly prosperous in his devotion to is a poor sign charges. If you will, I see them as being way more similar than differ number one. Bob comes approach to using all of this left over food and raw purposing it into literally creating food, is arguably as innovative, if not more so than a microchip. The other thing is that they were both huge advocates for hard work, strong work and do it yourself and that's what real entrepreneurs have in common, whether it's a pig farm

it's a mega multinational global silicon concern. I would see them as kindred spirits, and I would bet you a dollar that if the two of them sat down for a coffee or a beer that they would probably end up being fast friends, I still tell the story. I mean times have changed and Bob to this, had had sold his farm and finally moved on, but he must be closer to ninety than eighty now. I knew him when he was eighty and after that episode aired people. Think I'm making this up, but you can, you can find it. He passed on a seventy five million dollar offer to simply just just the little further out of town, because the real estate developers were really up in arms causes pig farms smelled a lot like a big, far But he literally look me square in the face and said what what what I do with my pigs. You're gonna eat him anyway, Bob for God's sakes, but he it didn't make sense to him too.

Barter away the thing that I believe became intrinsic to his own identity and emblematic of work, as he understood it here. Couldn't let it go not for all the money in the world which fascinates me to this day, It's been wait too long, since I've talked to since ass people are turning into listen to me, I feel like I need to say I I want to ask you to come about your her, about your style. I've heard MIKE describe what you do is giving advice to them. I heard you use the word advice, but that's not really You do when you coach someone is it? Is it more the socratic method when you speak with people work, I hate using it word coach. I mean really sort of recoil. I like to get involved and help people solve problems, So I would say that the thrust of what I do is released a diagnose. What problems are going on and why, in my little black bag or recommend

patients for how to help them solve those problems, sometimes that getting past the impostor syndrome, I've had it man I had this big corner office. I had no idea what I was supposed to do. First or next, sometimes it's it's it's learning, what's going on ground figuring out. I should say your priorities: it's all other things, but its specific to the individual, and so it's more similar to the way you work with an athlete and that you connect in with the individual strengths and you figure out where they need to do War puts jobs or run more sprints because, there's, no such thing as a fully formed at birth executive. That gets it all right. So I guess what I

do is that I go in like a coach in the sport sense and try and figure out, okay, which your strengths. Are we going to work with today, where your weaknesses and what problems are we going to solve if I'm not working on something real, hence the civic and meaningful to the organization. I'm a no vote. Regardless of what you call me chuck? How do you feel about that answer? Would you like to talk some more? Is it my turn not an eyelid idly way and I feel humbled I want to talk about the pig guy, though so so here's the thing, here's the thing, though, here? You like you'll, have to wait, the other big guy I want to talk about Robert called no, but guess what this but the company, the his sons run its recycling company. The hope that innovative that is aunt for nor a ship in it.

Literate, because I guarantee you that they have applied everything that they learned working with their dad to come up with better recycling solutions. That's what's exciting about entrepreneurs, that's what transcend Silicon Valley or Death Valley or wherever you're gonna be. Is that drive to be a problem solver into be iterative about it and they have far more in common, as I said, then disparity between the two of them. Now I don't know if you know this about Bob, but he he's there conservationist that doesn't get a lot of love in this in this day and age is more of a Teddy Roosevelt rind of thinker. You know the way he approaches the land and his commitment. To conservation in LAS Vegas has won him some awards, but it's cool

overshadowed by the stench of the pig farms. That's what drew me to him. What fascinated me was when he just very casually that first day we met. I ask him what he thought of. Environmentalism visa v. The green movement and He didn't tell me what he thought about the green movement. He told me what what about the colored green? He was like green. What a stupid com and I simply mean grains, and I or it's the color of spring. It's the color of renewal. He said: oh bull, crap green, you said Green is a color of money. Green is the color of envy green. Is the route word of gang green? What a stupid color to rally behind? Why not yellow the color of the sun, which gives life or blue the color of the ocean from which all life emerged or brown? What about

well he said. The greenest people in the world are all covered with shut or mud or something Brown Brown is fundamental. Brown is the color from which all things green grub, that's the color. We should be behind well went back three months later and did a special called Brown for green, where I took his whole philosophy and put up an alternative narrative to people who care about the plan if it might not want it following lockstep, without Gore or Leonardo Dicaprio. No offense right this dirty job special, I'm telling you this, because I really want just your take on the serendipity of all this, but that special aired the same night. That David says, love my boss now, arguably, the most powerful man in media yeah, hey Facebook, French, outdated. That special heard the same

that the discovery Channel launched Planet Green, the dirty guy does Especial called Brown before green when an attack channel is launched, called planet Green and it happens because a pig farmer pulls me aside. One day and tells me, as the ceo of his own little venture, green is stupid. Color his whole world View Tom was based on the fact that logic has to follow right way leads on to way, and if you don't start with the fundamental belief that Brown is a better unifying Hugh, then you're gonna go off the deep and, if there's a way, in in there would have to do with what's fundamental terms of what your ceos believe I'll pick you up before you end up, in the bottom of the outhouse here, I think one of your strongest attributes other than obviously chalk

goes really. We all know chucks propping up this whole empire, but one of your strongest attributes is: u fine gross generalizations friends it so may have a point of view. That is black or white, but you create space for gray, and you have very low tolerance for people who insist emphatically that is either a or b and your methodology for helping people see how maybe they themselves could see that it? not either Araby is much more effective than pundits or politicians or other people. That advocate stridently to persuade me that is a or b with whatever they're, methodology you prefer set the intellectual trap and then let the proverbial pig crawl into

themselves or onto a pedestal or on a pedestal, now at this last week. Regarding their clark, you said what made him the best boss you ever had is because he gave you enough rope to I Build a bridge and get to work, want to go or hang yourself yet right. That, I believe, is one of the reasons we're friends. We disagree on all sorts of stuff, but fundamentally the thing, and I'm done blowing shameless sunshine now, but the thing I do admire about your coaching business that isn't a coaching business, but rather a career. Consulting endeavour is that you don't dispense cookie, cut her advice you don't deal and bromides you don't trade in troops, and you don't pander with platitudes. She would I There was the alliteration that was lonely. You know what I was

say is when I was running the entrepreneurship programme at the University of Michigan. I got in trouble for that cause these kids would come in and I Like all I've got this great idea, I've got to start up. The does Bob blah blah blah and I would just say that's a stupid idea and I'd be like what like you're totally wasting your time and then I'd be like. Have you heard about this thing? Called Google why don't you, Google, your idea and see how many other people have done this and the university came back to me and they were upset the like you're in a learning environment. You know you're supposed to be encouraging these kids to be like learning and growing and making mistakes. I'm like. No. I said if I can stop somebody from making a stupid mistake. Gonna, do it and I'm not gonna, just sort of cater org. I'll tell you know if one more person said I've gotta, start up when what they had was a powerpoint presently

I was gonna like on. Fire saw an end to God. You have no idea. How many of those individuals who are now adults and have many successful careers reach out. I get unsolicited thank yous twice a week from p. Hu, I just told it like it was when they were. Struggling a rapid solution for some completely necessary problem in college, and this is I have to say that you are not allowed it like. I love failure, failures! Awesome! It's got me a lot of places, but too much handholding too much sort of lead be all this kind of stuff. I just don't think it does anybody any favours. It's the same way with my couch it it's like you're, either going to fire that person you're, not you're, not gonna. Come back yard complained to me, that you know they missed their numbers for the third quarter and around. Like note you're. No else no one ever said Jack about Tom Frank. He was

just a little ambiguous on the point we just weren't quite sure where he was coming from Among my many regret, was. I was never able to make it to Michigan too, to speak to your class. I I loved what you are doing up there and I, and I would have loved, to have come in and discussed the dirty truth of whatever it is, because, no matter how we come at it for me anyway, we always wind up in the same basic place, which is good, vice, for him could be terrible advice for her could be given at the same time you're in the micro businesses, not the macro business, like good advice, as micro. Good advice is The thing in individual needs to hear too specific moment in their life. Whether somebody is telling Bob Noise not to steal the pig or Bob com not to sell us Farm or a c o not to throw once you money at an idea? That's already pooped the bed a dozen different ways right. It's the same,

thing in our little foundation, it's like the reason we got one point: seven trillion dollars and student loans, I think, is because we ve been telling everybody the best path for the most people is a four year degree. That's great advice for some people. It's off. Advice for a lot of other people. Well now, but any luck we live in a world where everybody still is allowed to pursue the dreamer, not pursue their dream, and yes, there programmes in ways that we make it easier harder for everybody, but at the end of the day it is. I appreciate you calling some of those things out with regard to student loans, my own son, considering going to law school, we had a very serious conversation where I said how you gonna pay for this. Why do you to be an attorney, grilling him like. I would anybody else he's looking at schools. He can afford he's looking away that even manages for himself, and I wish everybody would have those kinds of conversations Really this sort of proof what people think they

a deal or why they want to do it or why it makes sense before they find out, on the other end of that that they are going to be burdened forever and indefinitely by the pig they stole when they signed the paper when they went to their first day of cod. Not bad split metaphors, but I know where you're going with. I like it, where's that loud guy with all the dirty stories from last week. Oh he's still In fact, I swore we would land the plain before an hour this week. I know yet stuff to do so. We're like fifty minutes and Chuck. I don't know, there's something with that: Brad Derby award that I wish I would have put in their. Why was it awards? version in regard to higher grades with doing the least amount of work right right, which is like the epitome of work: smart, not hard work. Smart, not hard is bromide its platitude. If you Google, it now you'll find hundreds of pay.

Ages and you'll see swag with that phrase burned into it. It just become this thing and what I was trying to at an earlier is like all good things that get taken beyond their logical conclusion, become bad things, so now work smart, not hard, which was some. Good naturedly lampooned by the up by the Brown Derby award has become conventional wisdom. But of course it too is awful advice to anybody who thinks they can somehow get away with not working hard. I think sometimes I feel like all Horatio Alger get off my long kid with the stuff, but but what do you think about that with? What is the right balance in this incredibly technical age between efficiency and effectiveness? between working, smart and working hard. You know what I got my first job when I was twelve years old bag, groceries and

even though we laboratories about my career path, solid work ethic The only thing that has allowed me to basically have the floor. And to do what I wanted to do in my life. I see no deviation, regardless of whether it's an entrepreneur or it's a pig farmer or is the person who cuts at my pig who I'm friends with at the grocery store. I still think that the basic common themes of hard work pride in your work, Wanting to do a good job are transcendent the dirty secret of Silicon Valley. This we're all the smart people are. This is where a lot of the lucky people are. And it's amazing how no one really gives any the air time to your point about what, if he hadn't stolen

but nobody really gives any air time to those things that happen out of blind dumb luck that have catapulted certain people up to the echelon where people start to Revere What comes out of their mouth, and even though, initially, if they're, like oh shucks, not me actually they start to eat their own pig feed and believe them. They had to say is important. Lock plays an enormous role in everybody's life and their careers, but I truly believe nothing's changed since the beginning of time. If you asked me to bet on to innovation, was. I would immediately try and figure out with a hard worker was nodded smarter one was and that's where I would place my bet. Man. That's great: what's the difference between luck and privilege

these days the line is blurred, so I think luck is sometimes finding a good mentor. Somebody who wants to take the time to help you get smarter faster, I think privileges having connections so that you can see here into organizations where your career trajectory goes on onto autopilot it's amazing how much nepotism errors in the valley now we go all my friends that went on to become famous executives at daybreak companies ever single one of them all of their kids. Now work for those same companies that privilege they made great workers in, and they grew up around it. But there is definitely an enormous clumsiness that goes into everything associate with venture and entrepreneurship and the fields in which I tread. I think luck is meeting somebody great who can help your life. Privilege is your dad. Knowing who that person

is and writing in writing the email that introduces you luck is having a teacher like Grant Gail who takes pity. A talented kid who happen to live at the height of rectitude and applied. Called Grenelle Iowa who was doomed to suffer the consequences of, albeit a colonial act, but one that he didn't deserve to be crucified for luck is walking on the Bob comes farm one day trying to get a show called dirty jobs off the air and having this old farmer put his arm around you and say green is a stupid, color and I'll. Tell you why you can't script any of that and when you forest Gump your way upon it. That's when things get fortunate guess what Bob wanted to tell you that and Bob, because Bob thought he was imparting, something to you that wasn't Bob trying

and to persuade you or anything else, Bob thought that was actual wisdom, and I know you talk a lot about teaching. Does your parents on this shell, but honestly, if every single person took a few minutes to think about what could I teach someone? We would be a much better place as a country, because you don't have to make some big glorious Anthropic effort teach somebody how to do something that they don't know how to do that. You do. I mean I think, that's how we now I sound like Pepsi commercial. I'm sure your fans are going to yell at me for that, to whatever you do, don't teach Look here I'm sorry. I've never reading your comments again, but your fans hold you personally responsible for everything from global warming to the failed launch of new coke. So listen man. Let me tell you

I like to think MIKE guest this week, ROM Trang. Let me tell you something about those six million people over there on Facebook agree with all of them, but I work for every one of a man in the end. They are the most rely. Billy Accurate Focus group ever asking that group of people what they think of of a title for my book or a book cover for the book. They they chose the cover. The book Bob Combs as the story was brought to my and by a viewer, and so for me. I have a very strange relationship with fans of this podcast because there also on the facebook page- and I was to the Social media party, but back when dirty, I started discovery. Build me a chat room and that's the place where I. Would go to commiserate with viewers of the show. So I don't know if you wanna bet.

This is some sort of advice for your for your next client feel free, but you tell em Micro works for the people who watches shows well and when I learned that I realized it. Did it really did matter who signed the Czechs? What matters is what those knucklehead say a cloud over on Facebook. You get out, you ignore them at your peril. I'm just glad that there are few guys and appear to be looking for love, put my ex wife into that chat right after the show. Are you? I got I want to go back to the advice thing. You keep saying advice and I had it doesn't sound like that's what you do. You said when you were talking to your son about college. You said you grilled them like you. Would anybody else? That's what coaching is its grilling, its asking the tough questions to get that person to their own place where they can solve the problem or you help guy?

them to solve the problem there having Emma Wronger or am I you- are hundred per cent shot, but the only thing I would add that is also then expecting them to do the work. They do the work, I'm still there. If it's just a lot of talk see you later Charlie before I turn this back to Charlie the grocery bags into which you jammed the groceries Europe job right yet do find any thing at all coincidental about the grocery bag that you struggled to turn into a leather vest as a we below, but you know what that first boss, his name was Butch Sutherland. He owned that grocery store. It was a mom and pop grocery store taught me valuable lesson, one that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life in a walk in trimming romaine, but he taught me a lot of lessons about life again. I got to write that down walk in time. I don't I don't want to walk, want to spend

rest of my life and a walk in trimming. Romain I mean well, I'm not really sure it won't be anything. I say after you tell me that we start. Apparently, we got to stop at no there's no stopping on the spot guessed, but there is a clear path which we are now officially on Chuck. Are there any comments you can share. That would make Tom's very, very fragile id and Superego bounce back a bit. Does anybody like this guy I did find one comment that was particularly kind and its from a lady who signs. This only took one acid trip. She says. I just finished listening to this podcast episode to await I'm. Sixty nine year old, middle aged woman and I feel like I just had an acid trip and giggled my way through discussion thanks MIKE Shock and here's my favorite part and the other extremely amusing.

That should make you feel good. You feel good, be a guest on the check class, a hot cast Ah, One thing that this money is no obvious. I heard from a number of friends who listen to it, but what they all said to me is they forgot how I laugh through my own stories capable of telling us without entertaining myself, first and foremost, that's the best that is ass if you're entertaining yourself we're we're gonna come along for the ride for sure failure. I your wife sent me a note, saying my god. You too, I mean Honestly, Michael you too, you and Tom, I The stories she said, but I still sat there had caught enjoying every word as your combined wisdom,

so for me, I'm paraphrasing, of course, but you get the idea. Well, your your partner in crime sent me a tax on Saturday before this author, and came out and that's the only reason why I agree to do this again. As well as we say in the business to both of you, your insincerity is very genuine. Ah, bake that you have our younger truth. Teller any any day the week Chuck job to do anything else, you want to add, we feel about alighting room was the best part of last week I doubt you know. Sequels are always done, but let's do it all right here. So let's try to be brief. There are two questions that were late to the street One in the story, Bob Combs says he did not want to retire even at the age of eighty, so will you ever attire and if so, at what age I look at retirement? a bit like the samurai. In that?

I believe I retired already many years lightning round like just saying fry goes into battle? Already thinking he's dead? That's right, I retired, before dirty jobs, when I started ripping off Travis Mcgee's model, so I've been retired but never busier, and I hope to stay that way. I'll stop asking people for money at some point, but hopefully I will not stop helping people regardless nice nice, alright, how many Britney spears songs? Can you name Tom? Let's start with you toxic baby, give me one more time Ah, my gach there has led to this Mike can you name any Britney spears songs not previously mentioned I'm proud to say that I don't think I can but is hit me baby, one more time the same as oops. I did it again, no it's a new one. Now it's the ass, I did it again.

Are you named one good, hey? What's the drunkest ever seen MIKE. What's the druggist I've ever seen, my Well, honestly, the answer to that question would be- I probably wasn't. See my clearly myself. Under those circumstances so a makes a man who can hold is poison, if he were to so imbibe? Thank your turn. Kind of you to say the to reciprocate. As I know the story now No, I still awake when you were a real yeah. I mean there are a lot of big nights, but we already talked about both of them in passing last week. Clive Davis's scarf Rash Party was a ban because that buried just never ended here. Here's a fun when, what's the dumbest thing you ve ever seen the other do what's it? What's it? What's the dumbest thing

that MIKE has seen you do or you see MIKE. Do God. I might have seen me do a lot of dumb things. I feel like I'm, the dumber one, no doubt need a coach honey sure doomed, r R. U available, I don't know for me because you do work with MIKE. You fit well because we were so good work for Clark? You don't I usually do Tom. Isn't that was equally stupid? I Whatever reason started, flicking bandanas I get the end of them. Little wet. Would they'd crack the air like a whip like a drama who yeah I got weird facile like I could Flickr fly off the cap of up? You know a war bottle, I could flick amount in mid air. I would I got preternaturally accurate with food

this thing and it made a loud, sound and Chuck was so impressed with it. He would just stand there and I would flick the area about half an inch from his nose, usually at a party in front of people and people didn't know what to be more impressed by the fact. I could make this thing crack like a rifle. Were the chuck trusted me so much I'd flick, a cigarette out of his mouth. I took a plain card out of his hand, and then one night I you know us. Suddenly there is leave gibe. Mark on his chin, and we haven't really been the same friends since, but you know we had a good run

and now gentlemen is day MIKE and chalk relationship in one Eric girl. I trust him and then get really hurt the Ashraf it may now every just needs and make every might needs a jog origin. Anything else for God's sakes, others plenty more, but you know what I just. What I just want to get out of here, I got. I am blessed systems It's been way too long. So if you want to buy the book by the book, wherever you can buy. Book? Otherwise come back here and here the next chapter next week, gender, I may be back or those aren't you get. I've read the whole thing, and I can read it to you

and tell you all about it is about getting aside. Thank you for making time again. Is it's been so much fun catching up with you this way, I can't believe how many old friends, why just don't talk to nearly enough I've been able to talk to thanks to this ridiculous podcast and the nothing more gratifying than this honestly, really great corral issues on which are doing and all that crap thanks happiness. About always in forever chow for now. No no way way way. How do people get in touch with you again who are desperate for advice that isn't cookie cutter but want to somehow relate with a butterfly spirit, animal How do you do? I do you still like that Tom at ascend coach me dot, com coach me says the guy who hates together

sword code, honestly, you're, so complicated dude. I don't even know where to be for just look for me apologizing on the global Yahoo career change thanks everybody. Thank you Tom Frank. Thanks, Chuck claw, smier audios!