« The Weeds

Black voters take the stage


The New Republic's Osita Nwanevu joins Jane and Matt to discuss black voting patterns and the South Carolina primary.


Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias), Senior correspondent, Vox

Osita Nwanevu (@OsitaNwanevu), Staff writer, New Republic

Jane Coaston (@cjane87), Senior politics correspondent, Vox

More to explore:

Subscribe to Impeachment, Explained on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Overcast, Pocket Casts, or your favorite podcast app to get stay updated on this story every week.

About Vox

Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines.

Follow Us: Vox.com

Facebook group: The Weeds

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Support for this episode comes from click up, we're losing out just three hours every day, switching between all our work apps, but you can get them back with clear up a flexible platform Brings all you essential tools into one place where you can prioritize tasks: collaborate in Docs chat with your team and track goals, so companies like uber and web flow use click up. Is their mission control Center, replacing every other app that we're using before click up even guarantees to help you save one day a week and get more done? It's completely customizable! It's free forever! So try click up today at Clickup COM, the weeds support for this. I so it comes from INDIGO Act. Indigo brings together leading companies committed to activating the full potential of agriculture to address the climate crisis in partnership with innovative businesses, farmers, scientific partners and informed advocates. We can reimagine agriculture for the benefit of people and the planet. Farmer Casey Bryant Bamberger, says our industry has the biggest platform to help change our environment and working towards a better future, learn more
indigo Ag Dotcom, Slash Reechoed, I don't know them sometimes instead, it's o, wasn't another episode of the weeds on the box media Potass network. I met with glaziers here with Jane constant. As usual, we also have a special guest seated. Whenever adds staff writer at the New republic, there is feeling a little bit under the weather ass. We hope she does not have any deadly colonel viruses or even the VOX Flu, which is also bad. Everyone has had Fox flew at its very bad. That's a covert. Seventy mankind is going around the office here, so the media tonight we don't know what's to happen, but we know that the South Carolina primary is coming up. South Carolina sort of serves the function,
of being like the quote. Unquote. Primary after we open with two super wide states, go to Nevada with a lot of Latinos so now is the week for everybody to bust out their takes on black voters. It's like no, no black voters and what are they? Gonna do and their pitches. So what are they gonna? Do they love Joe Biden? Well, I think that I to widen this out, and that's why I'm so glad Oseda is here, because I think that there's an idea we have more nuance take than that. Oh, I have a sign quickly more new here, take hours there? Yes, but I think that how the media I know we are part of the media and commenting on the media will being part of the media is the kind of matter that I don't enjoy, but there is a way in which we talk about black voters and politics that seems to rely on troops, for example, the idea that black voters, like Biden, because Biden was Brok Obama's vice president, which appears to be for some people like the depth and breadth of their analysis. When
There's a lot more heater and there's a lot more to how politicians are pitching themselves to specifically black voters, how black voters you are thinking about. These candidates, which comes in myriad ways, because that that's how humans work- and I think that it's really worth having a conversation about how black voters figure into this primary contest. Yeah think that's absolutely right. Results. Are far away still. I guess a couple days away Caroline, and yet I think, already in this campaign we ve seen people get South Carolina from at least twice just pulling. I think a lot of it is has to do with the way people think about black voters and in their tendency.
I think, very early on when people are just starting to jump in. You saw a lot of takes about Kamala Harris Cory, Booker because they are african american politicians because they were youngish. People thought that there might be a kind of Obama phenomenon going on that they would have this sort of natural appeal to the black electorate in South Carolina. I didn't happen, nothing materialise there. Then people move to saying like, as you just said, you know Joe Biden well known in the after. A community obviously has a lot of credit for being abolished. President, but is also just where this familiar face black voters are more pragmatic, conservative and they'll conservative in and gravitate to have, and he sort Biden has South Carolina locked up will now the past couple of days of we ve seen Sanders make a lot of gains, we've dire, come out of. Nowhere with you know a helicopter full of money, dumping it in South Carolina as square political unknown and still you know, he's in third place. I think right now, and is doing very well blackfellows. So I think
as there is a lot of absence of new ones, and I think it's important, because you know twenty sixteen one of the big stories. Not you know the essential issues of working class story but another one of the big reasons why turn, laws should be considered, as there was a sort of drop in african american turnout in some the critical states, and if Democrat Don't really understand. What's going on with the black community, they sort of continue to take this constituency for granted and say black people are Democrats, and you know I think that there is a risk of missing what happened there and so important for people in the press. Togo consult instruction Whatever to sort of take. This question more seriously, I think another thing to note here is that there have been a couple of folks who have made this point, but black voters in general, either black voters have tended to vote for Democrats or not vote. There has not been as a
yet because market scurvy never got to run for national office. There has not yet been the kind of the african american populist response that white voters have had in six nineteen sixty eight or in twenty sixteen of shifting from democratic Republican on to the working party on populist grounds. What you saw on twenty six June was a host of black voters, specifically in Milwaukee in Detroit elsewhere, who who simply said both of these people seem likely suck and I'm out, and so I think that one of the challenges that the Democratic Party faces is activating those voters because there are you older black voters are very reliable democrats if they vote, and I think it's important also to when we talk sometimes about black voters.
Do not give them the same degree of nuance. When we think about white voters white, we somehow can contemplate that what the white voting electorate includes your white working class Americans, and people in the service economy and wealthy college professors, and I dont, know people. I went to college with when we think about black voters, the implication seems to be that, like black people kind evolve, ugly similar when we ve seen again and again and again and wilt will talk about curve the break out in the polling, specifically on age, that simply not true so. I do want to say one thing about turnout right, which is that there was a a significant drop in african American turn out from twenty sixteen from sight from twenty twelve to twenty sixty and up. But the drop was on to about the level seen in two thousand and four, two thousand and eight
Is it a new ones. Take on my blog verses white turn right, which is that a larger share of a white people voted in twenty. Sixteen that then of african Americans, but also across the board College graduates voted a much higher rate at them. People Hammond at college, if you should have control over educational attainment, african american turnout is higher, even in twenty sixteen than white turn out, although their clothes and then its asian and latino turnout is really really really low. So you know I have a question for demo That's right, Obama. Definitely I mean in two thousand and eight he won by such a large margin that nothing in particular mattered, but in two thousand and twelve he got an extraordinarily high african american turnout and had Hillary Clinton been able to replicate, that she would have while, on the other hand, it's like, why did a white person not generate the same level?
of super unusual enthusiasm that a historic yeah you know. So it's like demo It's never replicated J, F, K, performance with White Catholics and like they're not going to you know that like a tactical railing it just like some some things you can, you can only do ones other wits, interesting endeavour bury you mention this, like I, my very lazy take was like Coral Booker will probably Paul well with African Americans and he really didn't and that's when an important impact on the whole camp. Right because he wound up dropping out, but had there been a narrative going where it's like well, New Hampshire looks rough for him, but he's in really good shape in South Carolina. Then one This Barney panic set in like moderates might have flocked to him he's just a much more like a charismatic public speaker then say
Amy Klobuchar. I've read a lot of takes like whatever happened to Cory Booker. But what happened to Cory Booker is that what people thought might be his face turned out to not be interested yeah. I think that I'll relate this to an experience that, many queer people have, which is that occasionally, let's say you when I came out in college, I routinely had people who would introduce me to other queer women that they knew with the Implicate like will your queer and she's queer so and then we both look at each other no I know thank you, and so I think that there is an idea, occasionally especially outside the EU, for people who are not african american or part of this group that you Cory Booker black voters. It just makes sense when black recent solves the enthusiasm for Corey Booker that they may have had even a couple of years ago when
was being was attempting to position himself. Moving into inner city Newark like really attempting to wear the mantle of Barack Obama as he interpreted it. That may have been an effective pitch. You had he on earlier, but I just think for a long time in twenty twenty five assist kind of it. Wasn't there you, and especially, if you think, about the the who are often the who are often pulled. The older voters and older people american voters, like my father, are the most pragmatic of human beings, and so the Cory Booker does not for some though that voting for her does not inspire the same level of confidence. Shall we say nothing. Further. Analysis extends to policy issues. Because one of the narratives early on was the Joe Biden's record on criminal justice
Mass incarceration is sort of clumsiness and talking about race. In general, something that was going to really topple him and I just hasn't happened. There is a lot of talk about those issues. Certainly they resonate I think on, and there is no more with younger people, not that older people don't care about mass incarceration criminal justice, but it's just not the sort of potent topic the people thought would really determine where afghan Murchen voters are gonna go. I just looked at the recent. CBS got Paul in South Carolina. Fifty six percent of black voters said they prioritize. Can issues, jobs about a quarter say they want to prioritize social issues like race, gender. So, in that respect after making. Those are like the rest of the electoral, a great big. They want a job. They wanted to see the economy to how such sought the don't care about the waters x, men issues, but people who thought that you know a a bad record on criminal justice was going to knock out there to that candidate and put some other kind of
We were just wrong and Weena wondering that again, just a common similarity red is, I think everybody understands that if you want understand white public opinion, you can't go ask like twenty writers and intellectuals right that, like you know that Some of my best friends are white writer. No, but you know what I mean: it's like the pool of like white culture. Figures is action very idiosyncratic relative to the white population and is open the same in the african american population that, if you primarily get your information through like professional take. However, you are looking at a group of people who are more ideological, more cosmopolitan like just like in any kind of like Rachel Context, and that I think
harry's over and that's part of what you see in them with Joe Biden right that, like working class people across the board are like less invested in some of this stuff about do, use the right words. Do you talk about things in the right way? I mean we all saw these like clip. And it was like this is going to be the end for him and like it really wasn't. I also think, though, that that goes to it's, not that those issues of Race and identity are not important, but I would say that for a host of especially older african american voters, their experience is- and I think this is absolutely true- is that this is in terms of how what our racial climate looks like right now. It is, not great, but it is better than it was, and I think that it's a lowered expectations, the expectations of for older voters, especially, I just keep thinking
bring her up a lot, but my late grandmother. I remember distinctly that when Obama won she was very excited, but she was like I'm not during I was I was like already looking forward to the inauguration. She was like if they let him live through that now I will be an just like she spent the entire Obama air until she passed when in twenty fifteen, basically waiting for something to happen to him and the degree of practised and experienced pain and disappointment. I think, are the lived experiences of many older african american voters. I think really plays into that and where the the idea- and I think that this Corey Reuben wrote a biography of Clarence Thomas. He talks about Clarence, Thomas Black Nationalism as part of why Clarence Thompson conservatism has come to the fore as it has, and part of that is a almost an acceptance that, like America, is racist and there's nothing.
We can do about it and so his nationalism transition kind of to the sense of like well, because of that. I that Progressive ISM seems almost inane in this context, and I'd ends I think in some ways for older black voters there's a sense of like we countered. Many people saying the same things as a Biden or even Bloomberg, weaving countered the same kinds of your lips. About criminal justice reform, and then we realise that that is aimed at that is to the benefit of these people, but not to these people and rice, can element of kind of practice. Disappointment plays and to how voters rank those decisions, you're kind of like yes, it would be great if you would not say these things. It would be great if you weren't like this, but we are not going to get that we're not going to get to experience it so we'll just go for this because this seems unattainable. Let break and I won, returned his wishes of criminal justice reform. This.
If the last year's taught us anything. It is that we do what will happen next, but there's one thing we can all be sure of the only future is one we can all share, in the charge in building that future is mercy core with over forty years of humanitarian work under its belt building together, is a mercy course DNA and, as the climate this increases their partnering with those on the front lines making resources, more accessible to farmers across the globe. Strengthening communities against escalating natural disasters and ensuring people have who's, they mean to thrive, mercy cores, the work that matters Do it alone. That's where you and I commend together. We all have the power to reshape the world when it seems like every day brings a new crisis when every news alert makes you want to throw your phone across the room, we may start to feel a little powerless, but mercy course here to remind us. We don't need to through community based action. We can make change. We are nothing If not in this together, what's next,
up to all of us, learn how you can be a part of what possible at mercy core dot. Org, that's M our see why c, o r p s dot, Org. It feels like you, don't enough hours in the day to get everything done, it might be because you're missing out on three of them. This. They probably fell into a deep dark. A bits opens up when we switch between work. Apps, add those three hours to all the production family miss out thanks to at home, distractions, disorganization fatigue. It's no wonder the days feel too short. Work should work and with click up, it does put up his head. Flexible productivity platform. That brings all your work into one place. That's all your chats, apps docs and tasks in one centralized place kind of like mission control companies, Goober and Google use cook up to make their days more productive, managed projects, people and calls for effectively thoughtfully
of all sizes and industries hookups pleasingly fast features- one thousand plus integrations became- must have for anyone wanting to track manage to tackle their work in one place and your hours back with clear up trade for free today, click up that palm slash, the weeds. So to me, it's really striking looking at the twenty twenty cycle and to an extent twenty sixteen as well, that it seems like all kinds of candidates when they like want to say something to an african american audience that like this, is where they right- and it is really questionable to me, like that they just don't seem to have worked in exactly the right way right or the predicted way, and I feel like we're going to step back from this campaign. At some point I mean whether it's Biden or Sanders who win South Carolina or whatever happens. I say like why,
did everybody decided that this was the number one thing to talk about when you talk about a population that you know this is incredible like discourse, unlike economic anxiety, verses whatever among working class white people, but it's like non white people also have tangible economic interests and jobs and health care and and everything else like that and the sense. I get is that, like with both Biden, an Sanders doing well that they are offering different versions of a kind of material politics with by offering a sort of moderate version and centres offering a kind of lefty version, but they're both like these, like cranky, all guys who centre kitchen table issues over other thing,
and not just seems is me like that's what like all kinds of people want. I mean they did that it's it's telling that those are the two candidates who seem to do now in the polls with african Americans, why did there's? No there's? No, like me, old ground constituency for PETE and AB klobuchar and stuff, like that so one of the thing I've been thinking about, is that if he really did want to engage with the african american electorate on culture issues on social issues. Now, apart from the basic economic method, as I can, again. Some the recent point coming out of a car so? You ask people what they wanted to see a president, whether they ve experience, authenticity. Other kind of stuff, then and the question of faith, whether they think it's important for candidates to talk about their religious faith. Thirty percent
It said it was important to them to have a candidate before them talking openly about their faith seventy nine percent of black voters said it was important with forty seven percent saying was very or extremely now. If you had said that in two thousand, for two thousand people have said, will bid web obvious. Like you have to make these kinds of faith based appeal, yeah. You know too, to be compared an election, but that's that's really fallen by the wayside. I think in our political conversations you dont have candidate, I think safer puberty judges, making very specific kind of faith based appeal softly towards gonna, get African American, but we haven't really seen. Candidates engage in that kind of level with voters in general, not just by voters, and I think that there is a second which we ve almost forgotten how to run for president, that way. We have these very sort of binary lanes where you this
The candidates were there to beat Trump, and these are the candidates, were there to do a kind of economics progressive as I'm ruined and try to right bring us to a new place, but where we weren't before you know from came in what to do about it, but their lot of different ways to run for president, even within those lanes- and I feel like they just hasn't been. Sense of differentiation, like I remember like I was young, but like doesn't thus need you'd. Have people can say? Well, that's the first candidate, that's a working class candidate! That's the economic progress of populist that you know the national security candidate. All of that is sort of been collapsed in different ways into this really bifurcation of the Democratic Party and again, I feel like that's something that limits your ability to engage in creative ways with different portions of the electorate, including african american voters, and especially because I think that
when we're thinking about african american voters. I think we do us ourselves a disservice when we don't break down those voters. In the same way, we breakdown white voters where we're not thinking about how black women respond very differently from black man. I'm working on something on how black man in black women view Trump differently, because there has been a lot of efforts by the Trump campaign to reach out to quote end quote the black community, a term of phrase I hate. Unless there are meetings, but you there has been largely a focus on economic message, which pulling has said that your black voters are focused on economic message, however, that economic message is aimed at black men: black women and the GOP has large written off black women, I was reading a piece in the federalists that literally said something like black african american women. Don't like Republicans and don't like white, publicans and that's just kind of the way it is and with no leg. I wonder why that might be, but I think that when we are thinking about how
Women in black men respond to candidates differently and how those candidates have responded differently. For instance, Elizabeth Warrants campaign is laser. Focused on black women, who are extremely reliable, voting cohort Literally yo in in twenty twelve, they had the highest propensity to vote of any group. I don't know what the corresponding numbers were for twenty sixteen, but they were the very high- and we ve seen that again and again, and almost to the point that something really Let me during the Roy more special election was a degree of like black women say the day and they came in here and rescue us from having Roy more as a sound economic while one a lot of it was republican, staying home but so the idea that african american women are supposed to be the same years of democracy, in both local elections and on a national level, but they're, reliable, they're, very reliable voters, they're reliable voters, but also what
suburban women are reliable voters and we're not thinking like I. Yes, give us all, and I think that but sticking about that break down. Thinking about the class breakdown and, I think, most importantly, thinking about the age breakdown. I've mentioned my sixty five girl's father, who basically is like who runs against Trump. I will vote for. Maybe Michael Bloomberg has the money to do it. That is not how people younger than sixty five field and seen in South Carolina and across the board that younger, nor the voters under african american voters hinder latino voters like Bernie Sanders a lot older voters. Knots which fastening by the aged divide right is, like you know, identities always mattered to politics and we sort of having our heads a hierarchy of like identity cuts when you analyze the electorate and traditionally in Amerika. I think, like you, go to race first right, that the gap between black and white voting behaviour is huge and
and you look at other kinds of things. A buddy now looks like on the democratic side you do you want to go to age facts that the difference right that, like young, African Americans, young Latinos young whites, young White College graduates, am young working class whites like all really like Bernie Sanders and that then old people across the board really really don't and that that division between you know people who have no cold war context and whose politics find by Iraq and Trump and Brok Obama, as a kind of baseline just have a comprehensively different word view from people who remember rake in our culture, waited to the cold war and maybe have a different view of what's been going.
In the twenty first century and that in itself is like a new, you know it's it's not new, firmly aged matter in politics, but I think it's sort of primary role is quite distinctly. From what we're used to thinking about, but you see it everywhere, right that there's this just incredible age, gradient in assessments of Bernie Sanders. And that's not always sort of conveyed through certain like meat, a channel which themselves can be dominated by older people That's true. I mean I sort of, and maybe this ultimately isn't gonna matter for this election. Her elections in your future time, always interested in the people who deviate from the norm. Like I wanted to hear from an here about the young people who hate Bernie Sanders like the old people who love burn. And I think that speaks to the ways in which certain
judges can break through, even though there is a demographic profile, they're supposed to make sense not supposed to work and its very important, particularly for progressive, like if you're somebody who really hopes Bernie Sanders wins you have to. Yourself like what is the message or what is the sort of alteration message, others gonna break through with sixty five plus people. Remember the cold war in the Soviet Union if you are a moderate, you know what is messages. Can I make through to twenty twentysomethings early summer, we really really really care about climate change. I freaked out about it. You know I mean there's the sense in which that divided very real and it's very kind of clean, but I think that again this, where is bifurcation of the Democratic Party limits the ways in which we can sort of shape our politics and shape particular messages and and have a sort of less predictable less. You know kind of flat
save outcomes that we serve expect. So you know I mean this, isn't it you know I I I grew up in very left wing our calls. So I know a lot of all people who, like Bernie Sanders. You know a typical people and you know, interesting? Is that I would describe them as much more fringy relative to mainstream politics. Then I would say, young people right so, like? I know a lot of young people who, like Bernie Sanders, who are all oh just like engaged with mainstream politics in a consistent, yea where's, the older people. I know who, like Bernie, Anders are people who spent most of their lives just totally cynical and alienated from projects like never had a presidential primary that they were seriously invested in or maybe just Jesse Jackson you now Abner, who Bernie support it right.
But they were people who were like self consciously like they didn't expect people who they like to win elections. And they were kind of a little anti electoral lest in their like worldview about how political change happen. But now Bernie is there they're like oh okay, like this is cool, whereas younger people, I know who like Bernie, it's like they have some, Some of these gangs House members who they like, or they have a dsl state Senate candidate who they lie. There are inside the basic construct of politics where as you. I also agree like the order friends of my parents, that I see the facebook who, like Bernie, are very much of lake its birth Bernie is they think of burning is being outside of politics. Bernie here is normal politics, and then here is Bernie, as these two separate entities and it's interesting, because that's not how Bernie Sanders sees himself Gilbert
and I like I've, been in the Senate. I know like it's fascinating to me. Yeah. I know like twenty somethings who live in Washington DC and work at, stream DC policy institutions and are then frustrated that their forty or fifty something bosses yeah like Bernie Sanders Billig their own personal mentality? Is young people? Wasn't that they're, like not like, they're here in DC, like they're professionals, and that's that's different from how old people see. Those who, like Bernie and those who don't yeah it's like they're in agreement in assessing Bernie Wrestling, really odd right, which is is fascinating to bring, but this to to two blackfoot is one of the wrinkles that I've noticed recently. I haven't really read enough to fully developed all my thoughts about it. Is that you note by people in polls you know, tend to seem very economically progressive across the board. Only
national, about large government programmes like Medicare for all. For instance, you see this kind of division break through where they'll say that they're all for fifty minimum wage raw for students student canceling student, but you know, there's a big poll that Yahoo you did about socialism and the primary A little while ago, and very A forty eight percent plurality of saying American. They supported, eliminating private insurance compared to thirty nine percent of Democrats. In North Carolina Start South Carolina, you see after me, are less supportive of Medicare for all than white photos than white white Democrats. Yes, exactly instead, Herndon at the New York Times a piece about this not too long ago,
He talked about the level of mistrust or sort of skepticism that some, the african american community have about large scale. Government programs, given that these are people who have to deal with bureaucracy and have to deal with a lot of programs So extent already and understand that the system for them doesn't work in the way that it does for white people or the way that it tends to and that is something I think progressive should of take seriously and try to understand right, because I that, if you have, if your experience of government is the post office, or your kind of the base, like the that the government is the things we do together. As Barney Frank once said, that kind of spanish, where you are, Your expanse of government is you, you lost your benefits because of dumb reasons, because you started making too much money
or you were not able to access wick because of some reason or in general, because you have faced systemic discrimination with regard to how these programmes are administered, especially at the state level. I think that your understanding of what that could look like the ceiling is way lower. But I would also say that in general, there has been a lot of you since I read by conservatism. I think about this lot. There's a there's, always kind of the well african Americans tend to be more current work, conservative and social issues. Why do they not vote for Republicans? Where we You cannot make conservative and republican into one thing there are many modern conservative democrats- and that is a lane, people are trying to get into. But I also think that for
many other african american voters. Yes, federal programmes have been problematic that federal programmes and the federal government helped to desegregate schools or administer a basic civil rights practice. And so I think, the understanding of the full African Americans in this country understand the full breadth of what federal power can look like for good or for ill, and so I think that that makes them again more pragmatic and cynical about what Medicare for all could look like. I think that makes some sometimes more cynical about what student loan forgiveness might look like. I also do think that that means that there is a federal, the idea of federal involvement or the idea of YO big government is way less scary. As like a basic concept. It's not you, and so I think that this the message of kind of socialism. Sucks does not work with people who are
like well. I've encountered bad government systems, but you're what withdraw its hat Mohammed quote about quote about Viet the Vietcong, never called him an n word. So I think that there's an idea of socialism for these trips is kind of an amorphous concept. That does not mean the same thing that perhaps it does to other cohorts of voters. Always a just a certain level of decent green, damn as him in this case a really prominently in the in the twenty sixteen primary, but like one take that I think a lot of african American Hillary Clinton supporters had and that they they are taking place in very clearly and forcefully was that they thought that a politics that centred class and universal programmes was going to short change. African Americans necessarily and often I either explicitly or implicitly are they would site with a book out what, when affirmative action was right, was white and hum
the author of that, but I mean this is an idea. That's very present in the in the literature right that, like new deal programmes were created and implemented in a way that was systematic clean, discriminatory and then another way of of thinking about it. That was a minority of like pro centres, voices of the time it's more in line with them Eric chiselers book on racial realignment, which is that new deal programmes. They be redistributed income to lower income people african Americans, because of discrimination were much more disproportionately likely to benefit from programmes like that and that's how the african region electorate got incorporated into the Democratic Party coalition in the first place long before some rights acting. Like that, I haven't seen nearly as much sort of explicit discussion. Of like race versus class, some ways, that's good, because that was always like an incredibly simplistic,
and work, but also sometimes it's good to have a simplistic frameworks. Even you can pigeon hole where, where everybody is, and in some of that, just like Bernie Has gotten kind of kind of worker than he was four years ago. It seems to me I don't know. Is that your perception, I think so I think he I think that was one of the. Critiques that the campaign really took seriously after twenty. Sixteen So you see more talk about criminal justice, mass incarceration and these kinds of things I'm just remembering now that there is a whole reparations conversation in this programme for like a couple of months. Feels like ever thought, exactly, but I forgot about it, but that was one of the points in this cycle where people really we talked about
that divide us like literally a year ago- yeah, I guess so yeah, but then also to me. I feel, like a lot of that conversation was unless less about reparation themselves, especially because a lot of a number of the campaigns were like we should have a study of the impact of reparations like no one even got like. We were not getting the car out of the driveway on reparation, we reserve sitting and looking at the car and contemplating it, but it seemed to be, as I think, for a lot of these Capades a positioning mechanism and your. I, like the idea of talking about reparations, the idea of increasing funding to each BC, use which I think for a host of White Americans. They have very little experience of the. U every time a reporters like. Why are these important? They get dragged down the
dynamic, but I think that that really shows in some his impact of residential segregation where the idea of an hp see you seems foreign or like, but I think a lot of these ideas for campaigns has been it positioning mechanism and I think Sanders and twenty six Jean saw or his campaign thought that you, if we focus on an economic argument, that means that we don't need you. The economic argument is the root of these issues that, from their springs, the prejudice and discrimination that limits the yo. That lowers the ceiling for African Americans across the board, but I think- and I dont think it so much that centres has gotten quota welfare like his third, I has not yet opened by it. I think that there have been others in the campaign and more conversations to be had about how, and I think that this is
Elizabeth want. There's a piece in the nation that came out yesterday about how this with one is. The intersection candidate country by a lot of people got people get. In their feelings about which I was like well, one that was kind of the point of the article, but I do think that there are these contested ideas and I'll put them in kind of very base terms, because people have written books about this are prejudice and discrimination. The result of economic inequality and would solving economic inequality reduce or eliminate prejudice and inequality, and I think that that's where you get into the equipment. Now making society argument about some of trumps voters and for its extreme, and I think sanders for a long time basically made the argument that lake when he talked to the New York Times earlier either late earlier this year, he basically was like okay, there's like a percentage of voters who are just racist, like that's just how it is, but a basket of deplorable. So to speak,
yes, and but it was a little basket, look at Easter Basket of deplorable, and so I thought I know, but then he went on to say that, like I think that there are a lot of people who voted out of fear and voted out of that kind of actual real life economic anxiety, and I he thinks I can reach these voters. And talk to them about these issues that impact all of us, but I think, I think, warrants campaign is of the argument that lay ill when we have experienced in this country the least economic inequality you. I believe that the the number I look this up a long time ago, someone that risk. We rub it like the period of least economic inequality in that states was like night, one thousand and fifty three one thousand nine hundred and fifty four which, as you might remember, not a really tip top time in race relations in this country, and so I fix it.
He's taking the argument that the economic development or an economic focus cannot solve these problems, and I think that is a fascinating wave thinking about this I said, break number two and then I gonna serpentine on that. Have you having trouble meeting your goals focusing work if you have feeling Strasser having trouble sleeping better help is here for you? It's not us. Help class inside a crisis line better help is sick, online professional counseling, with real licensed therapist, to have the tools to help you feel better is fill out a questionnaire about how you're doing better Hubble match you with your own licence, therapist under forty eight hours, no moral thereupon waiting rooms, no more limitations and the type of experts in the area and in between weekly appointments. If you need some more guidance, you can send free. Unlimited messages to council will get back to you with timely thoughtful answers. If the man The therapist doesn't feel just right. Better help will quickly help you find a new one for free but he is a more affordable option than traditional therapy and financial aid is available. Therapy
I've done at different times in my life super helpful, but we all know like it's really expensive and sometimes hard to find some good better help is making this much more accessible is great for these pandemic circumstances, but just like a cool model, so this I cast his sponsored by better help and listeners. The weeds get ten percent off their first month at better help. Dot com, slash weeds, get started today, better help, dot com, slash weeds visit, better h, Lp Dotcom, slash, weeds and join the one million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced, better help, professional if you're, a gig worker or self employed. There's some good news about PPP loans. You might want to consider millions of some. Employed workers may qualify for up to fifty thousand dollars in forgivable loans. You might be one of those millions, as the lead and ppp loans. Womply can help you find out they've helped over three hundred thousand small businesses across Amerika get a ppp loan funds are limited,
so apply now at Womply COM box and see if you qualify for a ppp loan. W o m p l why dot com slash veo ex wildly not a lender terms and program rules, apply one thing that always comes up. When I see politicians talk. Sometimes politicians just talk about issues when I think about health care, but a lot of times reporter. Sarah like ask politicians to talk about politics You always have to ask yourself. Okay, am I looking for a policy mission, who will say something accurate about politics or am I looking for, politician who will say something politically: smart among politics, is, of course, one thing we all know about politics is that the right thing to say and the most accurate thing to say are not always the same thing right Every time I hear Bernie talk about the electorate. I think like if this
I was writing a political science. Paper like this would be garbage. No like he says all this stuff like Jane to hug you out there like it, doesn't make sense. You know it's not it's not true, but then I think ok, but if he's a politician right, it's like if there are people who are racist enough to vote for Donald Trump, but also not racist enough, that they voted for Barack Obama and you would like them to vote for you like what is the point in tell them that you think they're, racists right, but that doesn't like it seems through to me to be like this is bad, but There's sometimes a sentiment on twitter that is like we need to. I call this out right and like maybe we like the three of us who are in the that takes game like do
wherein the truth, telling game but like our elected officials, is that there is a third job or they train of trying to win and then wheeled political power to help people against the request, depends on crystal the accent which you believe those people central to your vision of electoral politics or how many people you think you ought to mean Obama, had the whole controversy in two thousand and eight, where people Clinton Guns relation Bob. I won the election, He was a lot of those people the extent to which your ability to tell the truth about Rachel politics in this country, and American history is not necessarily fatal to your electoral chances. Given I given, I think what we've seen in in the past
couple of election. I may I think that that's that's. The thing is that now, at this point, number is nothing seems fatal to your electoral ships. It no longer wait where we have a president who is like America, hellhole people like yes, let's go with that No, you know like I. We read recently Obama's his eye poster my right yeah. It was extraordinary it was, but I like every night, I felt like. I was ready to cancel him after some of that stuff right buddy was it how much time you know I mean anyway, it was. It was great speech writing, but it was like he has this whole thing about his grandmother, radio and the, and the point of it was to say that, like he, He was not going to be the kind of black politicians,
there was running around trying to police, you, White America forever doing or saying racist stuff, and I think that's a big part of the reason Joe Biden is on the ticket to not despite, but because he had a history of racial gaffes and stuff fried, like Obama was trying to signal that, like he's, tease, chill right in a in a way that I do think was politically important if he had suggested look. The point of my candidacy is that we are now going to have like exacting scrutiny of the past racial conduct, every prominent white person in America that that would again, I think, poorly for him
and though the scrutiny like would have been deserved on the right Mary S. Dwight people do love forgiveness, and, but I think it it's interesting, though, because one of the things about politics is that politics, occasionally it gets you how people went to remove from the specific context of who they one against, and how we at what election looked like, and so I think yes, the the speech after the Jeremiah right thing, which now in hindsight just seems kind of like people were. I may I think people were performative limb out about that. But I think it's interesting also thinking about how this how this happened in the yoke towards
guess, September October, two thousand and eight that was my senior year of college, and I just remember a lot of friends who were excitedly telling me about how they had jobs that Bear Stearns no longer having jobs at barristers at, but I think the context in of how that took place and how this conversation was head and the degree of politicking that Obama did both then and afterwards of you having Rick Warren, give us give a prayer at the inauguration of conserving who's. My war and forget, and certainly of Mega church, passed her who had said some anti algebra two things. I remember this because I remember getting Emil's about this from various algebra t groups at the time, but the degree of politicking that he had to do essentially to assuage fears and concerns, despite winning really with
large margins, the idea that bringing and bringing and bringing of a host of people that were basically like. I know what think this election means, but it doesn't mean what you think it means. I know what rush Limbaugh thinks this election means. I actually went back and looked at what Limbaugh said after the election like November six th nay, and it was a kind of a lot of like you. This is backlash. This is if we are going to get what's coming to us or what they think is coming to us any. You saw that sentiment coming from him after twenty twelve as well. But the degree to which Obama felt felt it was important to assuage those fears and to make it hear not so much the post, Jeremiah Wright, speech reference, but his two thousand and four Dnc each about YO. There is no Red America, Blue America and its interesting,
that turned out to be really pression. I know I know it's so important geographical or cultural divides in the country. I know well, the figure is it's like I don't know. I I think if you ask him about that now Billig. I did not believe that I, wanted to believe that, but I also knew is important to say it and its fascinating thinking that now, I'm thinking about how candidates think about and when we were talking about criminal justice reform and how much that seems to be not just a I care about criminal justice reform, but that is- and you see it from the Trump campaign most cynically I care about black people. And black people care about criminal justice reform here go here. We are now, but I do think that the positioning element at play here is really important. Yeah. I think that's true,
I mean it's also important to say that the electorate has moved left on cultural issues. A lot of that is driven by democratic movement, we're at a point now Republicans say nice, things about criminal justice form they actually pass. The criminal justice reform Bill under Trump Trump goes out of his way to say a friend of actually be to people. You know, and sailors was not true, but in making makes the gestures behind the idea. It's a position at the idea of the gesture, the areas I have like, ok or weaken that that's ok, you're. That is a fascinating idea like that. You, you know to say these things or appear to say these things, even if you're a republican yeah I mean left word trajectory on social and cultural issues has, I think, been a really to some extent under appreciated feature of the evolution of american policy, because it's made trumps version of cultural or politics, sort of possible and potent than that
the central Publicopinion move left enough. The democratic party politicians like moved, left, whither and then that opened up a kind of space for things that would not. It wouldn't have been politically remarkable ten years ago, or certainly fifteen years ago, to be like, I really like police officers right and also, I think we should stop immigrants from crossing the border. You know apologize might have said those things, but it would have been incredibly banal. Right whereas now these are politicized concepts and I think they've been pretty potent and effective politics for Republicans, but that's not because the country is becoming more authoritarian on order concept is because it's becoming less so and Democrats are raising their aspirations a lot of these topics, but that's a
key sort of process. Right, I mean you, you just you never would have had the kind of embrace of black lives matter. You know in the past ride like when I remember that the beer summit, that's like early in the Obama years right, and the upshot of that was that basically, Obama was apologizing for saying it was bad for a black professor to be arrested for trying to enter his own house right, yeah, it's so it would be- is calmly Harris's, run so fascinating to make her she's a figure that merges international scene like on the costs of this change, but in serve Ferguson transition. Had not happened. Yet so she read this memoir in like the early twenty ten like before Ferguson happens, it's like I've been Prosecutor. You know not tough on, but you know I've put a lot of people who need to be
but away. She has all these clips about. The extent to which she did did her as a prosecutor sounded really good, like twenty twelve and like twenty thirteen, but Post Ferguson Shift happens in such a dramatic fashion, a time twenty twenty comes around she's. Having answer questions about a world that is very different very different from the world. We now live in on those issues. So I think that in her candidacy, you can see a kind of a transitional figure. Somebody who really had to find her funding in this new space after a career spent working to advance yourself in democratic politics under one particular paradigm yeah, and it's that paradigm shifted so quickly. It's really interesting, though I mean The cynical like when conservative outlets Roulette Kemal as a cap, and unlike bit you love you love, kept so much You think they should be allowed to do whatever they want. Why isn't it
Good thing have anything in retrospect. Those you probably miscalculated in trying to, right evolving into available. When gentlemen yeah, I mean but she, but she kind of waffle right and one issue for her right. You know, withered, Bloomberg, are abiding by those guys are so old and they ve done so many different things that they can sort of ask people to like. Don't even think about right what I did and you know a cry bill and nearly ninety four, I think of me as Barack Obama's vice president or whatever, but Harris like had been a senator for very long right, she was dossier and then attorney General California. That was like the vast majority of her career, so it was currently awkward for her to say. Oh, the real issue here is my health plan right like her, career as a prosecutor for better or worse? That's what she's been doing in public, I've and she didn't have a super clear
she could have said like yeah. I'm a cop like some of this, Clash has gone too far. Violent crime is really bad and you know maybe people would like that at least he would have the the that the anti political correctness but what a loved her young, the many many that that those many people who are out there that I feel that cohort is a very tough circle. That's the grabbed cohort area, one shoes, China! Yes, no okay, so Chelsea Gaber, I think, is not going to win South Carolina, but let's make some irresponsible predictions before we close out who's going to win South Carolina. No, I don't know I mean I think Biden is still the favorite, but it's close enough that Sanders could easily. I agree. I also think I've made the comment that sometimes you win by losing those
sometimes you lose by winning- and I think I don't know what that means. Well, it essentially sometimes in sports, if you obviously, you want to win, but there are sometimes say in a college football game where you if the original spread on the game, if you gamble was leg, fifteen points, anyone by one sure it's gotta, be yes, you one, but also You should have won by more and it's bad you let the gambling down yes, and they are an angry group, but also the idea of, like you kind of lost by not winning as much as you should have. I think that button who was Biden, was up in South Carolina by nineteen twenty points in November now granted November thousands of years ago. But I do think that if Biden wins, but only by one or two points,
and Sanders is already essentially getting himself ready for Super Tuesday. I think that that will be real cause for concern, but I do think that Biden has a good chance of winning in South Carolina all right, I'm going to play the odds and say Bernie is going to win, even though he's down in the polls because then I'll be right and people remember me. I know, but you know, I think I think, by keeps under performing the idea of Joe Biden in a variety of contexts, and I think I think we may see that our current as well. Okay, Dan Rate, thanks Acito for joining us. Today. It's been really great to have you on thanks, Tamaliki Brodus, our engineer, Jackson Bearfield, our editor Jeff gelled, our producer and the beach will be back on Friday.
Transcript generated on 2021-05-21.