Matt and Sarah discuss allegations against Roy Moore, Trump's new pick for Health and Human Services secretary, and a slightly better work week.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
There is an inherent tension, I guess, between climate control and not having loud background.
struggle of podcasting.
Hello, welcome to another episode of the weeds on the box media podcast at Work- I am Matthew Place- has joined today by Sarah Cliff
What happened to everybody think not here didn't show
didn't, sell, keeping those recline shall who knows who knows? Who knows? Who knows we
Great, shall yes, with only two people. Frankly, this is better than ever better than Ezra we're bringing guess we are bringing out a classic research paper that was tragically
I voted for by a lively ended by our Facebook group that we bring demanded in the face for group. The facebook group is great by the way you should join it. I mean you should join it, sir, but I'm
there are people should join it, and then you can give us input unimportant questions like this woman
How about some some boring healthcare policy as it is, but first scandals in Alabama.
Roy more who first, we had a story that he was. You know
the prow picking up one fourteen year old girl and may be dating a couple older, teens
that that was reported, the Washington Post and then I think, not really. Surprisingly, if you were inclined to view those reports as credible, they turned out to not be like the only stories. Those just happened to be the people who the Washington Post was
tractor August to pull the current bachelor by right, see you doing journalism and his heart
Also when you do the hard,
You would like to publish stories on it so
you look into something you find a few people. Their story seem credible. You look into them. You introduce some other friends and associates, and then you have like enough to make a good story,
so you run it and nobody who ever reads any of these stories, where it's like three one
and say, and then there's a bunch of supporting material that that's like an exhaustive report on it like three.
the it's enough to be a big news story, so you go run with it and then that's why more people wind up coming out
Late, you see this repeated pattern and a lot of the stories about sexual abuse over the past few months. Wait you mean exactly it's. The first publication is published because there's enough good material to make good, not already exhaustive list when nobody saying what we spoke to just like every person in the state of Alabama, and these are the only fit who who came forward and anyway.
And more come out, including this one with your book, which I guess is the most sort,
telling on an evidentiary basis. I have not heard of that growth depend. Signing a teenage girls, Highschool yearbook, really ever even in a predatory gave his teacher. I think that's the only
to accept them. That will make sense. Yes, even so you would hope to Nazi romantic note from it
And then there's the story in the in the New Yorker suggesting that possibly
I am at least what people say in the town of Gadsden Alabama is that were more,
in the eightys was banned from them all for being too much of a creeper. So
it comes at an interesting moment too, and we ve been watching this kind of series of powerful.
Following after similar accusations, but aid
also, there is almost a by vocation with politics:
the things we ve seen with Harvey wine steam losing a lot of his power in Hollywood. After the accusations came out
We ve seen a number of male journalists, top attitude and pr Mark Halprin, a political
accusations and being pretty quickly taken out
of their their roles. The and pr editor stepped down Mark Halprin lost is
deal is no longer with us.
You see it seemed like a moment when
These claims matter that they really were changing the trajectory in these careers, and I think that was having
is noble a fact it made. It seem like women could say something that
could speak out and it would matter they would not just be dragged through the dirt. They would actually have a voice.
They were changed things. They would show that this was unacceptable. What
we're seeing with Roy more is, is not nearly as clear of a narrative. It feels
more similar to me too, the Donald Trump Grabber by the pussy tape. Where
you kind of saw Republicans coming out against it, but at the end of the day they can,
stomach dead and decided, while it's better to have a republican president to grab
women's by the genitals, then have Hillary Clinton and office that there was a backing, that it was
cage move forward into the presidency with this,
it seems, like a pretty a mean, we're still a few weeks out from the election, but your sing a lot of these very
very non committal. If trio statements,
lookin senators, what he should step down if true begging, the question of
What are they waiting for like? What is the thing they wouldn't
They have these women making. These
mutations new do have you no sent a majority leader Mitch Mcconnell, he said yesterday. I believe
the women. I think you should step aside, but that doesn't seem to be the damage
opinion among the Republican Senate caucus end, it
it seems less of a clear fall
and we ve seen with a lot of power,
oh man in the media and entertainment business that when you
politics, the trajectory looks different. Yes, although I would rather distinction Niccolo Bit,
Finally, I mean one thing that I think is telling about some of this. If true stuff is it, you know
son? It is not a furtive clairvoyance
but the United States Congress actually has considerable investigative authority.
Did on times uses on matters that considers to be of significant impact.
and if you were sitting there right in in the formal statement of John Cournand Right, he is positive, a sharply divergent metaphysical universe,
If this is true, one more is radically unfit for office, but if it is false,
then, why more is the candidate who is endorsing the race when this,
How like ice yet, like worry more said, it would be inappropriate to seat a muslim congressmen were more, has a long track record. He is best known for defying valid federal court orders
or has all kinds of bigoted opinions about algae BT, individuals were more, has a insane tax plan like I,
find worry more to be an appealing political figure out on end
level, and I think particularly the defining of court orders makes him obviously unfit for,
you know you have to swear an oath to the constitution to serve in Congress. Worms flagrantly defies that, but John Corn. It is positive that, like really his whole attitude to this race hinges on the truth or
city. These accusations, but he's not saying
so we should let these women come testify under oath, repeat their story and circumstantial legal consequences.
and in which bring more more n, not unshorn, Kennedys radio show but like in sworn congressional testimony to like
Spain himself like. Why are you signing team girls yearbooks? What's up with against him all like you, you,
get a definitive answer out of that. But that's what Congress does when they like want to get to the bottom of something. What
Publican senators are doing with this. If true statements is express,
their lack of desire to get to the bottom of it
right like they are saying, I want to take refuge in a no ability.
right that, like I, am no longer campaigning with worry more because he has become an embarrassment
but also, if he wins, I'm gonna say
While we don't know the voters spoke in outlets, let's see him, I will say to give them their do. One thing about this is that in both the case of Trump and the accusation,
gets ten m and gives a more and the accusations against him. It comes at a time
I'm when the parties have already selected their nominees, so you're giving people this high pressure.
Her like its work more or its Doug Jones Kind of choice, right, which is a tough choice for
one whose sincerely committed to republican party politics. I would like to see an example. You know four by epistemic per
says of like see these stories had come out before the run off against Luther strange right, more beat strange, quite badly in that primary
But would this have tipped it in that case right
in the case where you're just asking both republican Party,
hence who mostly back strange but also just grass roots Alabama conservatives, who, mostly back more and you're, saying, look like do we think this is a serious problem? Do we think that this is that this is credible? Would trump have won the republican primary? If that access
Would tape had come out a year earlier and then the women who, in the wake of that tape, came forward? If it, you know, if they had all come out in fall of twenty fifteen? Of that material
would that have been enough for Marco Rubio or TED crews?
become, the nominee is different, I think from like and a high pressure prizes.
You mean like that's. A different dividing line from the media were like one,
falls out of power. Theirs, and it's not like you know it's your choice. This editor, nobody or this editor or like a completely like somebody's gonna, take the news organization in a different
lady. There's a lot less high stakes involved very weighty, wasn't like it's either Harvey one steam keeps his job or else it will never be an independent film again right exactly
but I don't I mean you could I guess that is
If it were one of the things that I mean in the trunk
he's in the more case that that makes it even like more confuse.
Thing is that this was never the person that establishment Republicans. One
You know that
apples from Republicans or behind Luther strange. They were not behind our trump bam that
you know all the stuff that man listed earlier like that? Does not endear someone like more timid,
Mcconnell Connell. I think
him getting if he is elected
who who knows what role it plays in Europe
working party. I don't really expect him to be a kind of like a rank and file just like do
leadership says to do it's not like it's this
bright, sunny future, where all the republican senators get along if more comes into office
I think that is one of the things that a it is true. You know the choice at this
when is between him and dug more, but at the same time like this, wasn't the guy that
I was from Republicans wanted in the first place, but now that he is the nominee they're, not u noble, willing
fully write em off and you you could see act
I mean you could ceasing. Ok like were throwing our weight behind a right and campaign for Luther strange. Yes, would it
I don't know I mean
it's now. It's Alabama conservative staid and might have a shot against a democratic challenger, but he, u, I think,
false dichotomy to say well, it's a Jones or more right that mean you do have someone there are. You could mobilise behind them. You have about like at least a few weeks, laughed too, that I think it
kind of is a bit of a cop
say well moors and you ve seen those firms and local politicians. I think saying, while you know
More or a Democrat like I go with more, is it's not so bad mentioning some things about the Bible? How how Mary
the teenage era that are not the most compelling explanation
for this, but I feel it got a bit of a false choice. There are there
other things you could do if you wanted to say that this behaviour is unacceptable in our legislate,
where's. The other thing that is different here right is: when you look at these cases, particularly in that the media cases, I think the key thing is that people who care have some power in the industry
now that you didn't didn't mention on on the list, but but lacquered steel, who was an executive at at box, mediate he caught fire.
after some some stories came to light about a man. I think the real
when that happened was that
It wouldn't have stood to not do that. You know like there's a lot of women working here:
two like there would have been a revolt. I mean, I think, the executors unity
I want to do the right thing, but also the so tat they had to do the right thing way.
There are now a lot of women in the republican congressional caucus there almost
no women in this sort of like big dollar donor universe and do not asking people to sort of like work personally with the United States.
senator ride, like people who are involved in the larger conservative universe. You know you're
in our ay and you're like supporting more as election.
still not gonna like work in the same office with him. If
you win seven regarding you saw this again with with Donald Trump bright that just like on a
ground level way like people are happy to put up
with that, and so does it there's a circling the wagons, whereas you know we ve seen this sort of Hollywood stories, journalism, world story,
You know when things come out when their credible, you don't need to meet a like. We could prosecute this case in court when it.
is the standard of like most people are persuaded that this is true. It becomes like toxic and an unworkable. You know, which I think is good and it speaks to a poor. I just think dynamic and republican party politics that there is not just on a strategic level but like gonna interpersonal level, a lot of willingness to put up with with bad actors. I think there's been some whispers. We haven't yet like really seen the harassment accusations, bug pass around Capitol Hill that day that it will come, but I think you know
I think we'll see a difference there to take a break and come back to this absolutely the other day I was trying to leave the house. I couldn't find my keys. I couldn't find my wallet lucky for me. I had a tracker on my keys. I did not have one on my wallet, but it found me my keys and my wallet was right next to my keys, so I would say
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So I want to think through like what happens if he is elected, because that seems like an actual
stability right now and work
taping those I mean. Who knows what happens later today very silent, but it seems like a strong possibility that these accusations will pass d if true like either
I you're saying Matt like it feels like a kind of like let's republic
live the suspended reality. We cannot just wait for people to stop carrying about it and then it kind of Russia's aside. So you have to
An ideas floating around you have, I believe, as Corey Gardener, who is saying that he should not be seated
If he does, when the election, you could
spell a senator, which my understanding is that hasn't happened since about civil war era Congress, so that would be quite unfair.
but I did, but I
I have put my money on you know if Roy
is elected that I don't think he's.
Going anywhere. I dont see reason
begins once you get that person into office saying is especially with how tight there margin is right now, and I think that
do. You know we are talking about earlier that this is
a position where we wear it does shape what the future of lead.
Misleading, looks like, and I think people are willing to set a lot aside. Republicans are willing to set a lot aside.
to have one more vote in the Senate, where they currently hold fifty two votes? If they would lose this kind of really easier public and seed in Alabama, that would put them down to fifty one. So there
is the option and I think it becomes a lot more stark if Roy more wins, the option really falls to republican senators,
What do they want to do? What did they do? They want to see this person? Do they want to see him and expel him from Congress that
goes. You know this isn't just about voters that take what do republican senators think is appropriate for a member of this chamber and here's where the fact that
or was never the establishments choice in a weird way works in his favour, because if you had
I, who was in there, because he was the parties, choice,
once the party decided that he was an embarrassment, they could throw him overboard and sort of effectively.
Nudge him out and
his wife, because I think we were Poland's, would like to see happen here is more beats Joan
and then more voluntarily, steps aside under a cloud of scandal at which point K Ivy, just appoints a new interim senator too, to fill the job, the attorney general, the inside
commissioner, when will they sell implausible there? Why would he stepped aside? I won't let you get through the election that such like a weird like thing down,
for women in particular. If you all week
here's the thing is: he already beat the establishment in a primary as with the bad
king of Steve Ban in and bright part and things like that, so new
in the eyes. I mean, if you think about this, with the situation of a war, more fair right of somebody who voted for him twice to be.
Justice of Alabama who watched him twice be removed by foot from office.
define quarters you'll get a normal person sees a guy who keeps getting
booted from office because he's defying court orders and thinks I'm never voting for this guy again, but there are people
Alabama, would they voted for once once he was thrown out for corridors? They voted from him again. He was done it again. Then they voted for a third time for the Senate. Nomination now they're gonna vote form again in a general election. In the face of these, these
we'll soul charges any now worldview right like room. We have to say that is significant numbers from our from our absent co host as there are, he wrote a piece about appall that came out a few days ago on that aspect.
when Alabama, given the allegations that have come out against remorse, alleging alleged sexual misconduct against
or under age women. Are you more or less likely to support measures? Ought to these allegations twenty nine percent say more likely way like that's, that's it. That's is significant.
Number wait ended and I think it's because even before these allegations came out
only worldview and which it made any sense to be backing for more is a worldview in which were more. Is this incredibly noble champion for the true christian values of true?
Alabama people and there is a massive conspiracy right that involves like the entire federal judiciary and the entire republican
ready as well as Democrats and everyone else who are out to get him. So this
ratcheting up of the stakes and stuff like it. Doesn't it just shows,
dangerous way, more is and how people gonna stop at nothing to bring where more down right, I mean that's like the the dynamics of this like. If you ever talk to people, you know old, timers and in DC about the sort of unflagging support for marrying berry,
its its exact same dynamic, where once you get into the mindset that somebody is like the people's champion, whose being persecuted by the powers that be
New charges against the peoples champion are like not impressive. That just goes to show how deep and far reaching the conspiracy
is there any seem like that exact spin from banning
the re more allegations that this is just the bases Washington Post in the Democrats and how,
convenient. These women came forward a few weeks before
election, even though they didn't come forward, they were pursued by Washington Post report.
There's end that I think it again. We have. We ve talked about the Senate and its role with tromp about you know whether they are going to stand entered from
we now ask for more investigations about russian meddling in the election. You do if there
to even back during the campaign. If they were going to ex stand up
and stem when they access. Hollywood tape came out.
and generally we ve seen now that you know
though he is not their choice that
not been willing to take those steps. You could see the Senate acting as kind of the final
as saying you know, remit
was never guy. We think because
I don't know it ends up like great for them if you get if he gets seated given like everything we ve seen so far, I don't know it ends up
they they do get a slightly stronger majority in Congress, but who, who knows what happens next,
if you see that, unlike what that means for him, the Senate could be like that final check,
this sort of behaviour, but I dont really see the current
Republican Senate. We have now making the decision.
That, even though we do some rumblings from court gardener from which Mcconnell that they would like to do that
it's hard to see that actual follow through, but here's another
just one more astray had never come back,
a soon to come. Plot to the United States Senate would likely be were
look and senators trying to insist that Bob and end, as should be expelled from the centre right document this with withdrawn and last up, so
This is not like a serious effort to get bad Menendez expelled from the United States Senate is everyone knows he won't be, but they want,
they have this plan to make vulnerable democrats take tough votes against expelling bourbon and swayed and Democrats are not can do it. So that's like the pre
Roy more story. Now, if we more wins the election, why this is
you always need in these situations is a psychological deflection mechanism and republican
we'll say short.
it expel why more? But what about by Menendez-
and then there will be proposing a trade in which Republicans ditch republican Senator, who they never wanted in favour of a more real
viable republican senator but Democrats Digit Democratic, senator in favour of a Republican appointed by lame Duck Chris Christie. So of course, Democrats will reject that deal.
And then Republicans we'll get to say like this. This is all anybody ever wants and a partisan controversy is like an out right and then,
You can say too strongly more critics. Look we had this good proposal,
let's get rid of all the senators who there's bad accusations against, but those partisan,
Democrats, they wouldn't go along with it. So that's what I think. I think this is all a fantasy like war
or is gonna be United States Senator, but just for four years, but probably for decades right, but there's a decent chance.
The dog Jones will be United States under probably only for four years, but you know, maybe for more time than that and Republicans would make
like to convince themselves that they have some alternative here, did you
they did before. They were all these senators, witwer Tromp who, like
they didn't endorse, trot, say me:
the single market, a campaign with tramp, but with
didn't say, is that if you think Donald Trump would be a good president, you should vote for Donald Trump. If you don't, you should vote for his opponent
right at Jeff Flake, who is now untilled in an amazing way. He said, look
the choice is between Roy more in Depth Jones, I would vote for Doug and then
Like all the other Republicans he's like, I want to find a way for there not be a choice, but he said: if that's the choice, that's why come down nobody else,
said that in the end of the day, they're gonna get work more. You know like there
convince themselves that there's some third alternative but like there isn't really. You know if you
when a primary and then you win a general election like New United States? Senator
so this don't gettin ready you through through the back end here, and I mean the thing that.
Straight to be the most out of this is what incentive
because you're thinking and we haven't really seen their sexual abuse. Harassment wave go through Congress, yet
If you're a woman who had a bad experience, what incentive is thereafter like watching this Roy more thing unfold to ever? Try and do anything
I think your woman and media right now there's lots of incentive. You can see that these accusations have in actual fact, but these women who have come
out against Roy. More have just been you.
question ten told their stories are falls they had were onward deny it
could see one of the live one. The long term outcomes of this is that you have really more as a senator for decades, but another long term outcome that might be a bit more powerful. Is it
really says to women.
Work on the hell. Help remove had bet interactions of people who are currently in power like why bother coming forward like what
and are you possibly going to a fact
No you'll, just have your name out there in this personal, be elected, and what was the point? And now this is
hop thing when someone Google's you when you're trying to get new job like this is the thing that they're going to appoint aid think
The possible lasting effects of this
Is it really pulls back on a lot of the momentum that felt it
developing out of the Weinstein's scandal and says you do not so fast you. You can,
in some places, but you can't reach Congress.
Although to that- and I will know by war- more- is pulling cataclysmic Lee poorly for a Republican in Alabama
you know I mean he so he loses like. I take wacko ahead of her eyes. He wins nobody even if, like if war wins by two like, I think that would be a disaster for America, but Lake
still a sign that he would grievously wounded by these egg kinds of allegations and then, if you brought them against almost any other senator who does not have. As you know, a highly
in a constituency it would kill them. I mean look it's coming devastating blow, but also, I would frankly say that, like there's a partisan difference here, you know like I think that is hard to know for sure, but like. I think that
liberal groups would seriously abandon a democratic senator who is accused of this kind of serious misconduct in a way the conservative groups down there
there is just a it's not a coincidence, right that, like a few years ago, when it was just like
square legislative question right and when the lily led better, fair Perry, act right and there were questions like
Should we make it easier in the judicial system for women who have been discriminated against on the jobs to get recompense, or should we make it harder and, like almost every Democrat and Congress said, but we should make it easier and almost every republican com,
said, but we should make it harder right, like there's a substantive disagreement in the United States about by whether discrimination against women is a significant social problem that should be of redress through legal means and Democrats, say yes and Republican say no, and I can say, Republicans favour the kind of this treatment of women there were more has been accused of, but they dont think anything should be done.
How'd it exactly in that. That's reflective in you know it's a second in boats. They taken judicial rulings. Their point is bacon and I think in their treatment of individual cases as well.
it is a time for boring. How being a policy I was able to break and then bore you
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This actually super exciting, weaken, boring health, but it is that if the most exciting weaken wearing husbands, they we ve had a sentence. Obama European failed. So
You found out yesterday and on wet Monday that
Alex. There is trumps nominee to run health, inhuman services after Tom Price. So
down amid his private plain scandal,
as there is a former Bush administration, Hs official
he is someone who seems to be generally pretty well respected by courier staff. There are they gonna say like he knows that apart
and he knows how it runs. He has got in very quickly from the liberal group's has been denounced for his work
since they just as a drug, exactly
that Eli Lily
One of those statements I found pretty note. A ball was from Andy Slav at who used to run the centre for Medicare Medicate services under Obama, who am has been a very outspoken advocate for the affordable care act here,
You know, I hope he can be a good, eight or just secretary heathens. I think he will be, but it was now
there's knee jerk. This person is going to be. You know a disaster for Healthcare in America, but the thing I want to put this into context is-
can have what it shows about what my pencil very quietly up to in the Trump administration
he very quietly but deliberate,
is really staffing health, inhuman services with a lot of people from
can Indiana who are his allies, who have the same views that he does on how healthcare should look
really starting to see that issue come to fruition,
looks as their lives in Indiana right now. He is someone who's in that health policy
go. You know he's been working for Eli out there for a little while you
also how lilies headquarters, having already I sell relevant Atlanta is relevant,
extra, why he is out into Deanna not working remotely efforts of other headquarters, and you really see this vision that pence has for her.
care coming to fruition. I feel like over the past weeks, you of Alex's
are coming in. As a judge, a secretary, you also have a speech that Medicare administrators Sima Vermin gave last week where she talked about quote the hollow victory.
Of enrolling people Medicaid. Basically, she it was a very odd audience. You entered, she went to the medical directors conference and she talked about
it wasn't really a victory to sign a lot of people up for medicate, which maybe, when you're
came to people who signed up for Medicaid. Wasn't your choice, audience and talk?
about the soft bigotry of enrolling keep on these benefits without work requirements, without asking them to do something about it
you know it was not in these rallies best interests, so
between the Azeri nomination between Verma kind of coming out, in hinting that work requirements are probably coming to medical
pretty soon worth star.
to see the Hs vision take shape
and I dont think- went on
front made the announcement on Twitter yesterday you talked about how is there is going to come in he's going to work to reduce
drug prices. I dont think that is what the future looks.
Trump has hinted a number of times that he wants to take on drug praises. It's the biggest concern and most healthcare poles,
People are most concerned about the cost of their pharmaceuticals, but we ve seen
absolutely no indication that that is the policy direction they want to go instead.
It's more of a
see as their coming in a kind of following in the footsteps of what
seem of Burma has been doing. I am really looking at how they can change healthcare programmes,
to the vision that pensive had one where people on medical,
a premiums they have to have a work requirement, so either
that's where I see the action being more than
pricing, even though he is someone who comes from the pharmaceutical worlds. I would add that President Tromp Secretary Steve New Chin
and national Economic Council director Gary Cone and how Speaker Paul Ryan have all said within the past month that after tax reform, they want to do welfare
Reform and this even greeted with a lot of had scratching in Washington, because welfare
form in the nineties was understood,
To me in programmatic changes to a d, families would dependent children now temp racism for needy fan
He is programme a means tested cash income support programme for for low income people
so when Tom starts to say things that don't appear to make sense, people just assume he does nobody is talking about, but I think its clear that what they are saying
right know. The United States has
its sized budget deficit. That is a huge problem but its, but it's not nothing.
The Eu S, budget deficit is also growing. It's big
this year than it was last year and that
bit of an issue only because the economy is improving.
I am in normal. You want to see a deficit that sort of honest, shrinking trajectory when the economy gets better, but working a growing deficit as economy gets better.
And we are about to have Republicans pass. A large tax got that we'll both make the deficit bigger in the short term and will increase the deficit trajectory and, in the long run,
So the question then, is like me: what a republic was gonna do about that bigger budget deficit right and one per
stability is the let the FED raise interest rates which will slow business investment papa? Another answer is they're gonna come for some big spending cuts right
but from promised very very, very prominently not to cut social security, not to cut Medicare, not cut medical
but we know that too,
compromise that Republican seem to have reached amongst themselves. Right
not that they are going to fulfil all trumps promises on Medicare, Medicaid and Social security, but it
you're, going to demand hazy verbal acts right so when they
the disability Insurance programme, part of social security in their budget proposal.
Well, that's not really social security, that's really welfare right and when they cut Medicaid in Obamacare repeal they said, but that's not cutting Medicaid right. That's that's part of Obamacare repeal and I think that's where we're going with this
if this giant tax bill passes, we're going to see a major legislative and administrative drive to enact these swinging cuts to Medicaid, but they're gonna call at will
There were four right. It's gonna be work requirements,
this can be of a million things like that right. It's gonna be cast exactly it's for my cast it not that
Well, we're just saying we don't want people to have health care, but we're saying this is welfare. We need to do welfare reform like we did the nineties. We need to turn Medicaid into a program that gets people working than to a programme that get sick people medicine. That's gonna, be like a cat
sophie for the well being of like millions of low income Americans who are going to pay the tab, furthest corporate tax cuts, and I think it is helpful to drive home what ache
figures seem of Burma has been in this
thinking, so I have no,
but her for at least the last for five years before she joined the Trump Administration she,
as a healthcare consult and also in Indiana, so part
This Indiana Pence Circle,
and she wore
with Indiana and then with other states to develop weaver proposals to test out these.
servant of ideas, so she worked with Kentucky
for example, to submit a request to add a requirement that any
Medicaid either be working, be in school or looking for work. I'm sure
with a number of other states on very similar. She kind of became like the go to consult.
If you wanted to create one of these conservative medicate waivers, you would work with sea.
and see my gutters
in Indiana than expands out other states from comes in off,
and now she is the person in charge of approving those waivers, so it is really
see you don't think you can understand what a key figure she has been in articulating the
served a vision for medication, articulating the idea that there should be a worker.
are meant, and here's how you had structure it and here's why it should exist and that
people who are Medikit should pay premiums, even if their allow they should be paid
a few dollars a month to have medicated to make it look a little more similar to private insurance end.
I think, also one other thing. That is an important.
here, is that it's not clear what the work requirement accomplishes there,
actually pretty decent data showing most able bodied medicated rallies to work there is. There was a study that came out recently in the Journal Health affairs that found that eighty seven percent of able bodied Medicaid beneficiaries were working looking for work or in school of the remaining thirteen percent three quarters report. They are not working in order to care for family.
birds and the rest report, other reasons like being laid off, so it feels a lot more ideology
you call you know, we have heard even that Medic Kentucky say specific,
like this as they move that all shrink. Our Medicaid roles is not clear,
actually end up with a lot more people working because most medicating rallies are already
working, but you end up with some people losing medicated because they aren't filing the paperwork. Are there not paying their three dollar monthly premium? It, I think, like Matt said
it is not it
not say you're no longer eligible for Medicaid, but it creates a lot of bureaucracy. We have on Medicaid where it makes it a lot easier for people who care
and round the programme to fall through the cracks yeah. I know
You know there's sort of a long standing. I don't know
you gonna put up with this disease.
He meant just you see how, in how means desert programmes are implemented in different states ride. So in a handful of states like New York in California, which have been
just very solidly under sort of democratic administration with occasional, moderate Republicans winning
the philosophy is that social safety net programmes exist because they are helpful and they make people's lives better. So the state should try to make sure that
our view is right, and then you have other states, particularly in the deep south that are perennially under concerned,
governance and they take the exact opposite view right
Social safety net programmes are something that people have the legal right to clean. Take advantage of you know if they want to, but that the state should make it
hard where they think. Another key part of this divide is that their temporary. They are not a thing you have for more than a year where that their transition back to somewhere else way, but the basic
It like it is a moral evil for people to be brief.
saving public assistance of any kind and
should make it as rare as possible right within that sort of constraints of a federal government. We ve talked to a bunch of times about difference or research papers on on
kid and I mean it and then I think we will talk more about it, because I think it's important to understand this right that, like in the
conservative mindset on this Medicaid is just this. Like nutty thing
Liberals did one day and it costs them
when money, and so like, the big question is like hell,
we'd like slipped the bounds of this odious obligation to pay for pupils medical care. But this is like
reams of research that shows that giving
what Medicare coverage makes there?
better make their kids lives better. I found a new thing about make it so grand
children's lives better, and so it's like,
to me it's like. Do you want to create a like? I don't know
thriving society in which human beings prosper, and in that case,
you probably don't want it like stint on giving basic health care too.
visuals who are in need. I mean you, may you have capacity or try me. You can give everything to everyone.
You can give medicate ever at its is pretty cheap, but conservatives think
medicate, is not like helpful. So
It's like a really good idea to find ways to deny it to people, especially if you,
I mean the conservative love you have. If you take what conservative say about making seriously right if
eyeing a million people. Medicaid benefits got one person to work harder and take it.
and get ahead in life that would pass the cost benefit analysis right, because the million people
They received nothing of value according to it like. I think that just wrong, but like they say all the time.
that they have these studies that show it has no value. So you could accomplish, like literally anything. If you could plant an extra tree and parks
and twenty million people lose health insurance, like that's a big win and, like, I think, that's crazy, but they write this down all the time. Unlike published articles that editors look great, and I think I am seem of Irma. She spoke to this in his speech. He gave last week here's what she said she said
we will not just accept the hollow victory of numbers covered numbers, coveted Medicaid, but will do
deeper and demand more of ourselves, and more of you
it is a very different view than the
administration had there was nothing hollow about the idea of getting people unrolled on Medicaid they'd. They
people, many rolled on medicate. They wanted states to expand their publish numbers every month, showing medicate enrollment was
up and up and up, but
really is articulated right there, that it is
describing it as a hollow victory to have more people on this programme. It's a very different world view of what medicate is
but I think we got enough- how are we were? We had enough boring health policy, it's time to get you to a hollow victory, the hollow baker?
but not a hollow victory of the we can t be why we are working for the weekend. White paper will be right back,
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This paper is, is one of my favorite raises papers of all time in part, because I heard it
lt. I am very eyes. I read a lot of economics papers all the time, but this is a good one cause it's it's a sociology paper, but on me
subject, and it's like a nice fun with someone. It's it's a
payments both a little obvious but also kind of deep and ass, a kind of like a fuck. You, too, the way economists think about this issue.
It's called time is a network good evidence from unemployment in the standard work week and so
they do in this paper as they look at when people are
happy and when people are stressed out- and it turns out that people are quite happy
on Saturday and Sunday they are quite stressed out on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday and on Friday there in a kind of a transitional phase as they as they look forward to the weekend and and leave their troubles
so far so good- I mean it's pretty intuitive people. I time off the reply to work during the week, but then they
get unemployed people and they show that unemployed people-
I should have systematically less happy, then employed people, but that they have the eggs,
same? Seven day cycle as the employed people? That
really enjoy the weekends and really sad Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, on the transit
oh phase on Friday. They are also looking forward to the weekend
and then they go. It may look at time use dad and they show that you know employed people do
but more socializing on the weekend than they do during the work week. Obviously, here at work all the time, but unemployed people also do more socializing on weekends, because of course, their friends and family, or not
work right, and so this showing that just like the time off from work per se, is like not that the helpful to people it's time
off in a way that you know other people are also going to have time off. That creates like the real sort of bounty of leisure
and that's you know I mean- is an interesting sort of fact about the world, but it also, I think, has we all sort of implications for how we should think about certain kinds of labour market issues. What are they
hence I mean just like one hour
one is that giving people flexible time off right leg it. If you think about your,
company weight and you could say: ok where we might give all our workers one more vacation day to use their discretion or, alternatively, we might clues the company down on a fringe
holiday, like veterans Day that federal employees get but vocs medium place. Don't get you probably think to yourself
right in the sort of model. Wolf,
example day off is gonna be way better for people than of rigid fixed day off.
But actually at least in a city like DC, were a lot of people already have veteran stay off me
king everyone take veterans Day off, might be more useful because you have an extended
friends and family network, that's already there, and then you have a cascading effect right like if more companies started specifically taking that day off, then that increases the benefits to other people having that holiday off
in fact, like the government, might do well to improve people's lives by you know
Pushing the needle forward
on more national holidays, we don't have the? U S in some countries right, there's like really strict rules where national holidays in the? U s-
some businesses are open even on Christmas day. Other most,
aren't. But the government has both formal and informal tools to encourage people to coordinate an undesired
and I think this suggests that the government probably should do that it also
suggested as we transition
into more and more of a personal services economy. We have a problem right because
would you workin hair salon or are you workin restaurant? You work, you know in a movie theater any kind of entertainment venue
What are you doing?
those nails. You, you, Workin retail shop, there's a lot of pressure to have people
wing those jobs on the weekend when people can go to the stores.
which makes sense, but there's something potentially socially dysfunctional about moving to like a complete seventy work week, even if every individual person-
only works five days a week right. They wonder how that
I would be interesting to see like how that works out for something a lot more gig based. Could, I think, like if you look at something like Goober,
simple. You can probably make a lot more money like driving people around at the exact times that you would like to be hanging out with their friends. That's a lot of people are getting together right ends
I read an interesting trade off you, you put those drivers,
and where, on the one hand, they could do financially
asked by giving up that
I'm giving up the time where they would be
friends. On the other hand, they are giving up a a key.
Good, and that has ripple of facts because, like if
You re envelope, goober drivers in your friend network than others, and you come too like Friday night and you guys can hang out and maybe it like, maybe
stratified enough that that you knew you have different schedules that start to develop, where
you know you're kind of coordinating a little there with your friends. You also have more gig, like jobs to have different
times where, where you're all free boat as
get rid of
standardization of the work week with with more freelance gigs, with more things like that it
it is interesting to see how that translate into the
kind of social well being
but like how you manage that foreign transition when the work week as a lot less structured,
kind of like up to you to coordinate with your friends like a time,
that every or even like, with your spouse, unlike with your kids,
at a time when, like the entire family
free and together and you get to enjoy the fact that you have a great family there. Here I mean so, I think what
would try to do as social plan right is try to push me
or office jobs to up for day work week, like,
four day on three days off longer work, day, kind of thing
I know, there's been an initiative on that and that were guarded.
Type in the federal government has some. You know offerings along those lines
I think, makes it a certain amount of sense for for office workers, and the dead then creates like a third day that becomes officially known as like, be designated third weekends,
and then try to use legal and regulatory tools to ensure that people who are in like
the sector industries that they are not working all three year of
three day weekend days,
it is like trying to make, because
I think there is a real risk here that, as you know, fewer and fewer people
work, sort of producing goods for abstract distribution and more more people just providing services
other people and also, as we have fewer and fewer people going to church and even less religiosity, they were gonna lose like the concept of the weekend tried that in the sort of
like rationalists NEO,
we're all whatever it's like. We all do
work whenever we want would say
good ride like I would rather work whenever I want than arbitrarily not work on Saturday and Sunday, but it turns out it's like it's actually better to her
the level of arbitrariness built into it, because it lets us,
a coordinated and, if we're all just like making it up as we go along, we're not gonna like find each other right like
all these unemployed. People are not like having a blast
an unemployed Tuesday, I will they actually
so at last segment on on medication, work requirements, if it, whether they haven't talked about as much is that even
people who have a lot of were unemployed and they have a lot of free time during the week. This
but it doesn't find, I think they said
like having a quarter more happy days like it seems like a quarter of their happiness is due to just having more free time to do what they want, but they have the exact
aim pattern and a kind of like makes me talk about after his medical work, requirements are being unemployed. Isn't that fine and Tina it's boring alive? The time you're look
for jobs, people aren't around like you're waiting for someone to get home. I really likely
taking a day off here there, when, like no one
around, like you know
husband isn't around like. I can just do literally whatever I want, unlike the stores, are really empty and its great and having that like one counter
Every now and then I think, is a nice good, but having that be the constant it
pushes against back against this narrative of I kind of like unemployed people like hanging out in a hammock like having a blast just having all this
free where they can do what they want. This paper suggests it, and this is ignored
surprising finding, but something fun to blow
point, especially for like a longer period of time,
what I would also say. I mean an important thing: is that what we see in all kinds of time use stir raise? Is unemployed? People watch a lot of television right. That's like the sort of it
the only thing people do with the time that's freed up by not working, but it's the predominant thing, and we all,
see the unemployed. People are not made very happy by all this extra time to watch television and I
This important, I mean not just for how we think about joblessness, but actually for how we think about how the war,
has changed because if
was to say something positive about the evolution of the american economy and society over the past.
twenty thirty years the fact that we have way better television watching option
is like high on the list right of like saying that he's gotten a lot better
you can watch, but now
this shows a better, but you can watch them and man you can watch old episode
like it's amazing, cornucopia, compared to what we had when we were kids. We like sitting there like an idiot like gotta.
home. If I wonder what is this right puts, it is striking that, having
the time to sit alone in your house and watch television actually doesn't make people happy.
right when no one has ever enjoyed watching a tv show, but just like systematically right. It's not
actually a like life enhancing experience and yet that's why
area in which
We have done a lot to to improve life.
failing that, we also know that, like VON Commutes, make people really unhappy but commuting times have gotten a lot worse than they were twenty years ago. Right and so
You know we look like aggregate economic statistics and it's like well, you know, Netflix is good. This commute
I'm you know it doesn't matter right. It's our money is all fungible upper. What we see when we look at happiness and we look at how people using their time that, like that's, not that's right, that, like me,
into a world in which you have more choice of television shows, but you're stuck longer
I'm highway is like it does. Imbalance
maybe even like more trees of like part of the joy of like watching television show was talking disown about a rare afterwards. So, even if you have greater choice, its convict, you know
tell your friends, you watched olive stranger things they haven't able to watch. It gets their working, less, there's less joy,
and that when you're the only one experiencing the guarantee, it even makes me wonder if the technically superior undermine tv watching like isn't worse right, that, like
oh yeah, yeah, because it I mean it's a glow, less structured right. It's not like the next day, like everyone talks about Seinfeld or whatever
we had an idea, is having silly wait. It's a! U might be bombed out if you missed yarn Seinfeld and must see tv on the
hand if you went like if
watch. The high waited and b c Thursday night shows back then on Friday, laying time my friends you talk about not having very bother us, whereas now it's like you, never let you never know like I'm kind of watching stranger things now and I'm downward eyes. Oh boy wave. I bet that MIKE totally out of the conversation- and I have no opinions about anything and its, but I mean we're joking a little but like
its common sense, but also supported by research. That, like what makes people happy in life, is relationships with other human beings. Unlike win
things in the economy and society facilitate that that's like really good, but when you-
changes that destabilize like the coordinating mechanisms that are the glue of society, it's like it's not obvious that its great hurry think that we
and that is why we release the we have regular schedule so there
you can listen to it. When it comes out, you can listen to the other vocs media pike
when they come out, yes alone, Scanavius the impact every Monday is. You can talk about their friends afterwards. This week we have our second
episode on the opium epidemic, we're looking at how doctors treat chronic pain,
in an era where they know that opium aids are quite dangerous.
why things we discuss, and I talk about my own challenges with chronic pain- is that there are
aren't a lot of good options and what that means her doctors, who are just notorious.
always wanting to solve a problem when they can't solve a problem? The chronic pain
There's a cameo from my mom and this episode. I think you would really enjoy it. So if you want to forge a meaningful connections with other human beings
Download and listen to box media podcast when they come out and then go to the weeds Facebook group to have discussions with your fellow weeds fans and recommend the show-
two other people, so that we can coordinate as a society.
listening to gather talking together, building cannot meaningful relationships with each other. Speaking of way,
Thank you, too, are producer, Peter Leonard, we'll be back on Friday.
Transcript generated on 2021-09-12.