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Seattle’s plan to save democracy


Sarah, Ezra, and Matt offer midterm predictions, look at democracy vouchers, and analyze the real impact of Daylight Savings Time. References and further reading: Sarah explores the effects of Seattle’s democracy vouchers on The Impact Nicholas Carnes’s piece on the representation of the working class in government A working paper presents evidence that Daylight Savings Time results in an increase in electricity demand An article in Quartz explains the lobbying behind Daylight Savings Time Matt’s case against time zones 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Yeah. This is Marquez Brownie Acre Amphibia hd, and this is Andrew Manga Nellie. We will introduce you to our podcast way, form the nuisance into the box media back ass network, so I've spent for ten years, reviewing tech products and consumer electronics for millions of people on the income. Fifty Youtube Channel and now on the way forward, ass Andrew and I use that experience to dig even deeper into latest tech for smartphones too. I max to electric cars. So if you're gadget, lover, orator cat or if you just want to figure out whether the latest gadget is worth your harder in cash. Give us a lesson say can find waveform empty if they pass on your favorite Pakistan every Friday see over? There was the plan. We can talk about it
and tax au revoir, guess, work ethic, hello! Welcome to another episode, the weeds on the box, media, podcast, Medworth, Matthew places here with as recline and Sarah Club, As greens, we are going to be back with me to Morrow morning who will be levels, weeds, discuss the results of the mid term elections, as this can be up at a guess, like Greece like too, on the West Coast, something when you take your life but today, we're gonna, try to do an episode where we we settle this aside, and we really going to the weeds on some some unrelated non election news banks, but I did want to hear you say it is our only way election news targets, em, it's it's about how to do elections better. It is not related to this campaign at Sun set on the issues the candidates
that said I, but I wanted to. I did want to exercise a little house prerogative and make everybody do some election predictions, so we can hold ourselves accountable tonight. I think we are going to see modest democratic party over performance wealth to the polling. Average Democrats look better in the gold standard live collar poles and they do in the robot pause. They looked better in the last minute wave of poles than they had in the past from a week ago. They have been slightly over performing their appalling in special actions. So I think this can be like fifty democratic, how seek gains and about even Stephen in the Senate. On that, that's that's. My call can help me to it tomorrow. So what do you think what's gonna happen? So I will take a different thing to predict time. I think we're going to see it
Three, maybe all four of the medicate expansion ballots pests. Tonight. I've been writing a lot about these ballots in Idaho Nebraska. You tie in Montana in three of those works, Medicating, the first time in one of those Montana would contain funding the medicate expansion, which is currently set to sunset in twenty nineteen. I think it's a really interesting test of whether red states are ready to embrace this really key part of the affordable care act. That could really have a huge effect for about I'm writing about three hundred thousand low income. Americans would gain coverage if they all pass and kind of look at the pulling looking at how people feel about medical expand. and the role that it played in Asia Debate not staying power and pretty bullish. It's going to pass and Idaho Nebraska Neuter weirdly. I think the place where actually I'm it has. Its worst sides is in Montana, where the expansion or exists, which is because
The tobacco industry has poured millions of dollars and to oppose it the about in a shift expand Medicaid there, because the state wants to find a medicate expansion with a slightly higher cigarette tax. That's what I predict then and will see tomorrow, I'm right nice, so marble actions Be that interesting views. I basically agree with mats predictions I, as a rule, try not to protect elections, because I have no reason to think I'm more correct than pollsters, so in general. I think what the forecast say. What happened is likely to happen. If I d guests in the direction things are gonna be off, I would guess in the direction towards the party with more enthusiasm which is Democrats generally, what happens you know I had to go with it. I'd, say: modest, democratic over performance, if anything, but but who knows that, and I do think it's possible- I think it is quite possible. Democrats lose seats in the Senate. I just don't know how to think about say, like the Michigan race in a couple of the others, the only thing I will offers a prediction is: if we end up in a situation,
tomorrow or whenever we find out the final results? Where Democrats, you know beheld a lost cedar too in the Senate, and they were the house by five or six in the boat, but did not actually win the house because of Woodway gerrymandering worked out because of biogeography of worked out until we begin two thousand and nineteen with Democrats out of power in the house to start winning more votes are out of power,
Spending more votes, heir apparent the White House, despite many more votes there isn't have been following for that, but I think you're gonna see the party really turning on the political system. You can have the Democrats become an anti system party and that the main point of the Democratic Party will be that begin. Rewriting will also competition is fairer in its direction or would it perceives is fairer in its direction as either guts actually uninteresting downside? I don't wanna call risk of academic its correct. I think that the system has become a loaded dangerously on small democratic, but I think that the consequences of Democrats winning the house of open, not the house, will be more severe and long lasting. Then I think people are prepared, for I dont think it'll just be taken practically on the left as a sign of democratic under performance at the
be taken as a sign that elections in our rigged enough against Democrats that the main point of the Democratic Party has to be unwinking them nice, ok, second, my kids. We will see what happens and we're gonna take us in an early break here for the sake of the structure, the show grand one thing about yoga we're not gonna kill you I didn't. I did a package with Jane relates what I just said. I didn't like us with Jane a couple weeks ago where we talked about the ways in which elections are being rigged, and you know we're talking Logan about hacking and things like that. We are also talking about motor suppression and other. and what do we didn't know it in their which added that was interesting, and I should have known it, because targets set and others have written about it box, but is that the first piece of legislation Democrats have promised to pass if they win back. The house from the senator both is a big bill with sort of pro against multi democratic reforms. Automatic voter registration things like that, which I think is interesting and its people-
to the way the parties beginning to focus on this question of making voting easier and more possible for people as a core issue, not just of fairness but of its own survival. So if they win, you're gonna see some action on that and if they lose, I think the pressure on that is going to become much more almost violent. But but I just want to know that, because I was an emission from that path. episode, don't go get okay, so let's take a good break and then we're gonna hear about Seattle plan to save democracy. If you like. Basically anyone listening to this right now, I'm willing to bet that you are you're dealing with stress, maybe there's of it like an overwhelming amount, or maybe it's more like a low but steady, drumbeat background stress, no matter how you are experiencing stress, it's likely effect mood you energy in so many other areas of your life. You feel, like stress, is starting to take over straining relationships and shorten your temper. It's probably tend to unload and better health perfect, for that better help is customized online therapy that offers videophone and even live chat sessions which therapists
She wrote to see anyone on camera. If you don't want you, it's much more affordable than in person that european you could start communicating with the therapist in forty eight hours, a mug distressing. It's an unbiased feedback. You be pretty spies where you can gain for it see if it's for you, the weeds, sponsored by better help and listeners, get ten percent off the first month, better help dot com such weeds, that's, B, e, t, t e r, H, e L, a p d come slash, weeds. This episode is brought to you by fan: do football is back and the best bet you can make is downloading the Fender Sports bookshop. It doesn't matter if new to gambling or an old pro fan. Dual has something for everyone and as an offence, you'll sports betting partner of the NFL. You know your bet, you're, safe, there's, also Four been a better time to use. Fan do because right now, you'll get up to one thousand dollars back. If your first bet doesn't win, you can
turn a small wager into a big payday with the same game parlay that just sign up with the problem Spotify place your first bat risk free on fan, dual sports book down fend off today, twenty one plus and present in Pennsylvania first online, real money wager only refund who does not withdrawal side, credit that expires in fourteen days. Restrictions apply, see terms at sports booked out, fan dual dotcom gambling problem call one eight hundred gambler. Sir, I was assigned to the first episode of the new season of the impact and I said only life- means I guess network it is that just started on Friday. You ever want to check it out. Yes, awesome is honestly in this season. It was single, most inspiring thing. I've like made me feel good about democracy remit. It not, and I guess what parliament, because, as working necessarily all that well before hearing may move trying sad about democracy for guiding big people earn as they try to make how elections work better. In this egg, Mohamed, like everything,
about like well how much voter suppression will there be? I found it to be a real tonic. So what's the plan, what what what what we see how to try to do so This is from my other progress. The impact which looks at how policy affects people this season. We are looking at all these local policy experiments. Basically, people in cities and states decided something was broke and sometimes are doing some pretty zany things to fix related problems and the first one we looked at Seattle plan to fix pain finance in what they did, which is really there. As far as I can tell you, there only place in the entire world that does this and every single CLO residence, a hundred dollars to donate to political rights, says. The idea here is something called democracy. first. It was actually an idea. That's been floating around for about a half decade now for mom Larry. Last second, Harvard is the guy you kind of came up with this. He were not bad about this in the New York Times And- eleven a guy in Seattle them read that are bad and said that
the great and known, as does that? We should do that so Seattle. The rare place, that's liberal enough, where they passed a valid initiative and twenty fifteen to raise their own property taxes in order to send everybody. These things called democracy vouchers which are these hundred dollars. There must look like checks. You rate the candidates, name in You sign it over to the candidate and the idea is right. Now we can't take big money out of politics, a lotta that it's kind of off the table due to the citizens. United decision Seattle, decided to do was swamp their elections with small money that it, It can't get big money out of their making
money matter last by making small many matter a lot more. Its super different from anything that is out there like. But where do you guys on ago now, as we talk about what happened, how it worked on theirs lack on, let's go over there just about the background convicts, reserving its important furnishing why they decided what they did so like going back in a bunch of record of rulings, but could be the lay oh, but before recently, citizens, united in the constellation of rulings, run citizens. United. This record is held that money in politics is speech, and you can regulate speech, excepting pretty extreme circumstances, and so the idea is limit. How much money is spent in politics has basically become a non starter and the absence of ivory Traditional amendment or a very different composition on the Supreme Court, and so I think, a good place to start with is. But why is a problem,
eventually makes about the Seattle argument is that they come at this and what is the problem? We are actually trying to fix from a direction. I think people don't always think about as it. You wanted to talk a lot about like not just the issue of corporate capture, but also the issue like legitimate candidate selection, who, who gets to run in power, Texan awoke and what kinds of people they end up being yeah? Guess I think I mean that's one thing. This kind of interesting to me about the Seattle Am Programme is a lot of different problems. They were trying to solve their a lot of different ways to measure. Was this successful or not a cue, unlike you mention, is who actually runs for office in the United States and one of the things they were thing in this. As you know, this is all in municipal elections in Seattle or looking at local elections that even there it's really people with more connections who don't always looked like the people they are representing, who end up kind of getting funneled into the candidates. As some and those are people who,
you no more likely to be asked to run in the first place and then have an easier time kind of funding larger donations em before this pro. Seattle had seven hundred dollar limit. donations, and you know how can one guy you ran and loss and said Inga for me, I went through my list of people who would give me seven hundred dollars pretty quickly so look at the Seattle. Did this for the first time in twenty seventeen, and I think the biggest victory of it was changing the candidate pool the woman who ended up winning the race. Was this woman named Teresa Moschatel, who is thirty seven she's latina. She stopped. Student loans? She's a renter like she looks a lot more, like the people who live in Seattle Then a lot of the people on City Council historically have end
and she is someone who would have never run before this programme, because it is look, I'm just not the type of person anyone would have approached to run for office. You know the party machinelike wasn't really looking at me as a candidate. I don't look like a typical candidate- and I wouldn't even likes thought about doing this. had approached me because, like I don't, I don't know enough people with money to donate to my campaign, so you know she ended up financing about a third of her fundraising came through the democracy, voucher programs. You raise three hundred thousand dollars from these kind of this fake money mailed out all across the out. Also, I think, there's a lot of different things going on in terms of like aid reminds me a little when a weird way of the discussion we are having around family leave palace words one of those policy areas where You can have a lot of different goals: increasing small donations, changing the candidate pool, changing what type of people donate reduce then flint of big money, there's a constellation of things. You could be trying
to do here and all of them have you measure them on different metrics kind of you get a better or worse picture of like how well this particular problem marked soon. I it was interesting about this right is that, unlike the upper form of the democracy vouchers, it's like everyone that's their hundred dollar voucher, and then they give it to a candidate of their choice and you don't sound like delve into like, like super details of what actually happens silly or can it uptake? Is there s so about three percent of the democracy vouchers were used in Seattle, so this is the part that makes me like go at all about the experiment, is that they sent out fifty four million dollars in innovating possible campaign donation and that take money that should really be turned into real money. Ninety seven percent of that doing can use
and when I interviewed a lot of people about it, I kind of thy people wouldn't know about the programme, because it was the first year that they built out, and even though this was the thing out of you, people were like. Oh yeah. I got that but like shrubby, like forgot to use a dad didn't really think the election. A lot of people who were saying, like I didn't think the election because I can see at all. We have fifteen liberal women running for mayor Select, what's the point of using it anyways, anyone who wins is going to be roughly fine so take up ray, I mean there are other reasons I think the take up rate was low. They sent them out in January when the election wasn't until November, which like a lot of time for them to be lost. so. I think like when I look at this programme. I see a program that really changed. It changed more than I thought who runs for office. It didn't leads like everyone else, only becoming a donor in the way politics, but I don't mean to be to be more optimistic about it. Rightly Sicily, some real. change happen. Death
though? The program like didn't actually generate as many small delegations as you might have thought, So it does suggest that, like looking, you could is it of scrapping this, like you can tweak it right, like like, maybe instead of sending paper checks to people that already there are things that I'd or annex are undergoing a mail them out a little later next year, yet ass their religious like if you will eventually thinking by the budget for this- and someone was like, let's give everyone a two thousand dollar voucher, and then you added up, I gotta cause way too much money. Is you cut down to a hundred, but it turns out only three percent of people use it. So maybe you could afford to make them five your dollar net. So against some of the interesting math going on here, is they only raise three million and property taxes, so the programme workings? ethically relies on a lot of people and that there are little wooden leg, not using their vouchers. There actually a little concerned about the upcoming mayors election in a few years that people made out spent the funding of the programme, but that actually our future, not a bug
I want to put a pen in the funding of the programme because we could fund programmes like us more if we care more about elections who campaigned financing and that we choose to not, as I got that single will problem, not technical, but I think one reason I found this all more optimistic, maybe then than either viewed it is it that early take up rate. Just did in surprise me and also it did in prepared me. It's a it's a thing about politics and policy making that people roll out a policy and is it give it does not work amazingly well in the first year to get a failure? It's done. It's gone too, like scrap it, set it on fire like motor body out office, it's done and it's in the world product releases you and really something you bring out a phone or who bring out an item or a gadget or whatever, and it takes some time fur
thing to come together and work right to take some time to figure out how to market it takes some time to figure out the best way to deliver it. You know this is what all the talk in Silicon Valley, like pivoting strategies, is able or even activity what you're? What your creating! I like the idea that either there is this programme and it hasn't quite caught fire yet, but but have people really like, for instance, it does not seem to me that in the first round the candidates quite yet knew how to change their strategies around the existence of these. See bouchers now some of them did a little better. I'm a super interesting to hear the candidates in the story talk about getting seven hundred dollars in democracy, vouchers in a single night of campaigning basic? What I am
you know something like this, my work, I imagine it. What you would have is something like a may or race, and the may all races very contested and one of the candidates is a kind of like inspiring grass roots candidate and in the very much the same way that twenty seven dollars became a rallying cry for the Bernie Sanders world that, like the democracy, voucher, becomes rallying cry for this candidate, and then it begins to trigger a user if you like, I will take this is yet like I give these two people like I gave this candidate. It felt great I'm and give it to the next candidate, who makes me feel great, but this is bad. News is where the limited funding base is potentially rake is like one way you can imagine this going. Is that, like the Ezra client, grassroots candidate catches, fire right, unlike wins, but bank the programme and then two years later, right, like Jeff Bees, owes spans point o o o o o o one percent of his money. Just like bury the income mayor and adds with a sudden
we're gonna, stop putting this huge property tax burden on you for this clean election scheme, and then like they pass a law that, like yes, said, scraps this little thing, but it also gives like a return to him. That's like a big Gillian Times, bigger than what he himself did, that advice gets to this. bigger point. In american politics right now, in the end, we have decide if we care about elections. If we care about campaign finance for me, like democracy, Jobs are one version of this. Small donor matching is another where you take say: donations up to fifty year up to two hundred and fifty dollars, and you a match them up to five times are up to nine times so that small donors that immediately become more like large donors or large ish donors. So it's easier to put that together. These numbers aren't that baby because sometimes hear folks or not worried about money in politics. When you know
I say all this elections, because two billion are four billion dollars a year. I think that's a lesson we spend advertising toothpaste in America. Innocent is more important than toothpaste, America, Epic, it is. It is more important than toothpaste in America, while two faces very important, but it's more boarded the marketing to base this mark up, but that the problem here in my view, is. If I talk to people a lot about running for office, not again and advice waited it comes up. You know, like people are thinking people. I know things are running for office or they talk about it, sort of casually alike. every single one of them. The reason they don't is a same. I just don't want to copy Bob an awesome for money like I would like to do this, but, like I don't want to call people up and ask them for money. I think we can make a choice in this country that the only people who run for office which people were people who know a lot of rich people or we can I'd we want is to open up more Nick Carnes, is upload the scientists who studies as me? We ran a great piece of vocs using some of his research, but fifty four,
and to look at more than fifty percent the country works and sort of what we like define as working class jobs, more blue collar jobs, lesson a tenth of elected officials come from those jobs to think we have like fifty cent per cent of the country of origin jobs. Is A part of the country that we venerate in american politics, but it is none of them know like to a first approximation. Just but no one from that world is to run for office. Now there are exceptions. Cassio Cortez is one I mean they're there, others too, but it's a very, very, very small number and is in large part because of the cyclist filtering mechanism of of money in politics. It just think if you dont know rich people- and you dont, like asking people for money like don't want to do this job and sober warping who goes into politics- and here I agree with you. I will just jobs- is not that much money like for the that's what the tooth pacing actually says from the other direction. We could just raise this money, it's not
fidgety a bit like what would cause, no money would be to regulate the campaign. Finance system and, like I dont, disagree with this, but like ice super disagree with like excepting the premise that these obviously incorrect Supreme court decisions are right and like. If I was the president, I would just pass the law that existed before and just like tack on a clause that says like fuck you. This can't be reviewed by the Supreme Court and then like. I would replace Supreme Court judges and I would talk every day how these assholes and went to their fancy private schools and fancy private law, schools and friends with rich lawyer, I like trying to destroy american democracy. Right, like you should just like just shouldn't, be allowed like some areas and made a fifty million dollar campaign contribution to the House Republicans and like he should go to jail if he does for everyone at the same time we're talking about like. If this standing like if this is the world we live in, like what can we
I mean, I spent a lot of time, thinking about these democracy vouchers that unseen herbs went on to Seattle, February some working on this story? for a while- and am woods you're. Finding this discussion interesting. I highly recommend going back and listening to the impact episode which covers a lot of this ground will make others make a little more sense so I've curved carbolic. What I vote for a ballot on democracy vouchers. Knowing what I know now- and I think the answer for me- is yes you know, I was dismayed by the participation rates, but you do I greet with what you're saying about this kind of keeping, here being widening of the candidate pool the thing that would really Give me pause, You know I would be like a kind of a torn supporter is that it is true that this money, comes from somewhere in one of the features of this programme as it has incredibly high administrative cost, so Seattle, about a million dollars out in democracy, vouchers, two candidates,
They spent a million dollars on administrative costs on top of that, so that is all the money spent king and mailing, the ballots, the ads to make sure people know about them. The office space, the people who run the programme it works out to roughly fifty percent of the budget for the programme going to administrative costs and that Michael a little bit when they switched to electronic system, but first they have to build the electronic system and that costs even more money, and I think we should think through like is this. A good investment of taxpayer Dollar of tat her dollars. You know in Seattle that to go to more affordable Housing, which is a huge issue in the area right now think I lean gas at this point like if you were a charity and you had a fifty percent administrative spending like Thou, be pretty horrendous. I think, because of the changes affecting still think it's a worthwhile investment, but I don't think it's should be seen as a Reed off and noted. Some places have decided against it
Austin actually was pretty seriously considering democracy vouchers but ended up rejecting them. Fingers over the summer. Their city council went against them, so you knew it its having little trouble contraction elsewhere, but I think you know too me, I don't think about it as like a free ride that those are real, real dollars that could be spent on other things. I think we should take. The question is: is it worth that money Spending too, by the different candidate for this is where In which, I think a lot of these things and downstream from one another though, and then you get into this the situation where it's like, like crabs, fighting at the bottom of the barrel, where ok, like the state of Washington, doesn't have an income tax like it does not have a state income tax and like there is like it's in its constitution. Thus we could change a constitution. There is arguments he could create a capital gains tax them. Washington state happens to have the richest people in the world Living merrily sit has just basis living. There lay the fact that
and have an income bill gates, the back it doesn't have. An income tax is actually pretty meaningful, and so up with. I got a system where we know that when people get elected from all working class backgrounds, there more economically populist right that they pass more economically populist laws. and you have a state where an agenda like a political system everywhere? That makes it very hard to get elected if you're from that background economic? rich person and, if you're not already appealing to rich people, and then you get a very weak tax structure. and then you know you end up in these. These questions. Are we going to spend any money on homelessness? Are we gonna like try to make it possible to have a democracy that is incompletely purchase by rich people and not that you are completely right. Sarah, like within the construct as it exists right now, but that's why I think, like these things, need to be thought of as an investment, and I got a future fairer legal system in which some
These some of these intentions are or are not a sharp it's not that it will ever stop costing money. Nothing is free, but in terms of what money gets spent on making it People from our from government to be more representative seems like a very, very, very important thing and, unlike the fact that in a state where it's like, you have bill gates and you have Jeff basis, not paying income tax. That are also to be a conversation. like. Can you spend a couple million dollars on democracy vouchers or, like you know, did you have to like, like this? Every cent need to be spent on reducing homelessness is very much the right question for a mayor.
But it's like it's a question that ends up being in a weird we like downstream from do. You do things like democracy vouchers now, so in thirty years, people are making the same decision. The semi lead that I think people should consider pursuing here right to set the city of Seattle, like on cities in America, has franchise agreement with cable television operators because to provide cable television, you need either access to publicly owned utility, poles or else underground, Actually, no, if they have utility positive underground Seattle, I've never been there, but at any rate, like all cities reach french I've never been to Seattle. Now I haven't it hasn't distinction of largest american city. I've never been to. They must be so broad yeah, it's it's delightful, but so you
you have to reach these agreements with cities where you want to operate a cable network and a city somewhere should try to put into the agreement that you have to give free air time two candidates for office, Skinner, who made some kind of standards and that you will not run political adds with some like stringent, no be ass. You know no issue, add Babo Bob Bob. I kind of stuff now look like if you put that into a franchise agreement like the coat brothers will see you and as long as John Roberts is the decisive fifth vote. Supreme Court, like he will probably throw your rules out at some point, but like there's no safeguard like I do think, like all laws that have any merit will probably be thrown out by this current Supreme court. But, like you have to keep pushing on it, I think
I don't. I don't disagree with what, as I was saying about the importance of this, but like the reason the crabs are climbing. The bottom of the barrel is that the Supreme Court, just good it or series of obviously crazy decisions that like should be laughed at and screamed about and like the institution, should be burned to the ground before we accept it, and I don't like to see public officials do anything that accords any legitimacy at all to this body of jurisprudence, like I'm, fine, attaching democracy vouchers as like a sub clauses to a law that also makes it illegal for rich people to buy elections. But, like that's the problem here and like I think, it's like it's really important to like insisted. There's like no
basis at all for this view that they have imposed. That, like Congress, cannot try to enact fair political system in the United States. A breakdown of your insidiously guy get bad Theo, but also of you're a city and like gear wanting to change things right now, they are like what is the case against changing things right now, and we actually seems to believe but like that again, that's why we are proposing try to do this cable franchise thing like its novel. It hasn't been litigated, yet I guess the land that I sent you a glaring less. It is a law school professor, unlike God, bless him, but, like local professors are terrible right. Am I going terrible people on the Supreme Court? Do something terrible to try to advance their terrible, yeah. Would they tend to do as I go back to the drawing board be like if I accept the good faith of these people? How can I accomplish there's through some legal means
which like good for him. I enjoy his books, he makes them good. Pod casts, but, like his better point, it is that, like the insane level of corruption in the american political system is right. I don't like you gotta, just fight back against it like on all the channels, all the time I'm gonna go with two. I think not that hard takes here, saying that I'd exam Moscow professors are actually not terrible, but also I didn't want to put- the side. The question of setting a sort of another episode of whether or not the correct political strategy from here on our is try like invalidate the Supreme Court to emigrate, visit judicial review, I both like don't actually agree without? I will note to my earlier point about predicting a legitimacy crisis growing on the left like. I think this is sort of what I'm talkin about, but I do not think there reason to believe that all kinds of campaign financer form practically matching things like this particular things at the state level like this, will be thrown out
been a lot a different kind of matching programme over the years they ve done fine. You know, and I think that within the idea of it being speech, it would probably find and democracy tourism at the city level. Like I don't, I don't see a reasonably men like that we are at a while and then it could. Then it could ladder up and the more you get these into highly competitive races. Things like like if you had democracy vouchers in Florida or in Georgia right now in the governors race and imagine how many those would actually being used. That's a little bit like crises, going like local politics, always has a problem of low information and low turn out to the idea that, like not that many, these reuse when they came in the mail, like this are in your episode like the candidate, who we is using. These initially throws hers out, which I think is a grave, is a great little detail there. But if you had these be no around for a bed and then they are able to be catalyzed in election. Were people super activated? I got it
it really matter and like I don't think they will get thrown out like, I think it's. I think it's a really like valuable approach to this, but, like both people shouldn't get discouraged by the fact that, like you, need to like Tweakin twisted to make it work or that like there needs to be some money behind it cuz the money, I believe, is worth spending I do not see reasonably they'll be thrown out of judicial. I don't think this is any anyway like a deal a policy. Right now I mean the way it was actually Britain like very much to survive. So one of the things they can't actually do is force candidates to take the democracy vouchers they have to opted into the system and there are significant incentives to do so in that you get access to all these vouchers, We have to accept a slightly lower limit on your other contributions, so it was written specifically in a way to survive. You know any kind of judicial challenges and I think it faced a few that weren't there were thrown out pretty
please you do to your point as read. That was the original less proposal is, is about Congress, it's not about you, know some units, a polity and the Pacific Northwest doing this. The idea is that this should be a feature of how we fund congressional Lecture but of course they do not have much of a shot of going anywhere in Congress. This guy out at a think, tank in Seattle, reads about it inside you, don't we should try that here, but I mean that's, why I'm doing this season on local policy? I think that's kind of how a lot of stuff starts at this point. someone tests it out- and Seattle. I mean they're sticking with it like they feel really good about how program went Teresa the candidate who, why It has been doing a lot of you know, speaking a different cities that are interested and possibly setting up their own programmes. So Seattle feels really good about how the democracy voucher programme went in there, making some tea. to make it work a little bit better? But it definitely you know, is it
looking round and even as a lot of you by talk too, who did it? Use their vouchers, we're still really supportive of the programme. thought. It was great, even though I thought one of the things that can have jumped out of me in reporting. This five times as many satellites voted to create the democracy vouchers then actually ended up using them so I think like satellites they they like the idea of this being the thing that happens in their city, even if they are not fully participating in the programme, for I think it's worth mentioning here that the United States, for why all had a better democracy voucher, but a public funding for presidential campaigns. You know that was inspired.
To an extent by some of this thinking. But the way that wound up collapsing was that it was like the Seattle sister might read, so it was opted Roger was you could get the public matching funds, but you had to abide by spending limits, and this was because Congress responding to the Supreme Court had said that Congress cannot set rules for how elections are conducted, that prevent rich people from, Buying the election, so they created this complicated, opt in work around and for a while. It worked really well right and so presidential candidates found the carrot of those matching funds really attractive, and so they abided by The spending limits but will wound up happening was that the size of that matching funding pot didn't grow fast enough to keep up with the surging rate.
campaign fund raising, and so eventually, the Obama campaign in two thousand eight became the first campaign to decide what will actually have more money. If we don't take the matching funds, and so in two thousand aid, they didn't take them adding one and Mccain dead. But then, after that, like once Obama had had pulled the top of the Pringles. Can nobody since has done it and not to say that that means like this whole thing, wasn't worth trying I think it's a reminder that is you see that working in some small way is by to scale up. I think you need to like keep doing things.
This is to make this rightly it doesn't have the like self scaling programmes, as ever was suggesting right, like if democracy vouchers in Seattle start to transform Seattle politics in a way that starts to have a meaningful negative impact on the material interests of wealthy Seattle lights like they have a lot of ability to like push back onto this, and so I hope that they will start thinking in the city government about what kind of like escalators they can build into this, so that, like, if campaigns, get more interested in specifically targeting people for vouchers. If people get more like voucher, know how, as such, to become more of a burden like a fiscal burden on Seattle that that doesn't just become like an opportunity, shut it down, but it they develop. Like a funding mechanism? Does like people hate property taxes
You know, because I say this is big red. Like say, everybody in Seattle use their hundred dollar vouchers, or we decide This is great. There should be two hundred fifty dollar vouchers. Right like this should be a way to like you know due to really to really make it go. Yeah I was, I mean there are some limits to site to be fair to the people who thought of the US. There are certain countries there are limits on how much you can raise, but this is an active issue with the mayor's race coming up in a few years where they worry that the funding isn't gonna keep up with the programme. So one thing here that is the big embedded in some way, both saying, but I've become very obsessed with the Nikko principles level view of how political system should work. This is something I think we're really use do in other places like like on healthcare, like the democratic view is not being able to afford healthcare should not mean that you know medical care. Now they often fall short of that. You write the affordable care. It falls short of that view bike, but that is the valley. they're trying to get closer and closer and closer to. Unlike Republicans, I believe I can taxes
There are some level like fast and then they fall short of like not having any taxes at all like that. They want to get the gun. smaller, and the tax base really down or you'll, hear Bernie Sanders say they like no one working for, hours a week should be living in poverty or unable to support a family answer that, like undergoes a lot of than policies, meant to achieve that value and I'm really struck by how little foot and decide how little like honest discussion there is a big. What are the vow use underneath our political system at this point I've I've been having rotation, sometimes probably unwisely on twitter, like an in my pieces, am, I am like trying to talk to people about this and you dont want he's right now is that you know what you really talk to people about the american political system, a lot of the time, their values, just like status call by us like this is how we do things. These are the rules as exist currently, so this is how system should work and I got doesn't make any sense, actually and there are like a lot of good values and, and service goes back a little bit here. Your point about some. If he could be achieving many things, I think the political
some of our more legitimate when they are more small, democratic celtic. I believe a crystal variety of levels are like we shouldn't have electoral alleged like on and on it. We should end up gerrymandering because you shouldn't initiative, proportional representation like they're they're bunch of things like that, but here too, I think that we need values around money in politics in who who gets to run and that's a conversation that is more. You just had the inner realm of pure power, but that Democrats need to do what they really believe in the sum of all. Like I think Republicans, They started decided that the system as it stands helps them, so they believe that it should be maintained, but it would just be good text a more ongoing conversation about this Obama, except by the geese, instructive. Because here is a guy who ran for office really promising to change the political system I mean hoping change was actually directed at lobbyists, like of if you go back to awaiting look at who Obama's talking about. He is talking about that.
bought american democracy and he says you know when he refuses that money that he's gonna fix a campaign finance system, but he does You know I mean they do, try to pass something to alter that. You notice tat transparency after citizens, United, but Obama comes and here you can understand. This decision is a massive economic crisis ongoing and you know thirty. Americans whatever was about health care and and and all these other things at a very pressing, but amidst things he does prioritize what he does not prioritize a systemic change and lake. He ends up paying for that, and I think people end up being even more discouraged about the stability of changing anything and Donald Trump too. In his own way, gonna run sing, like I'm the only guy self funding big my campaign, these special interests. They can't buy meat the by everyone else that you know the Goldman Sachs Robotic. I need a Hilary they give money to TED. They can't buy me forsake heat, a sense of being a plutocrat, but
There is a lot of I think, desire in the country for this system to work more fairly, and I do think it something that, like people need to begin building a case around like building an argument for an employer. typing and this one. I keep trying to make this point about other things being downstream, because angers always is feeling that, like people get into power and take you can't look at the political system. First, because I mean people don't of healthcare right now, like the taxes needs to be changed right now, but. If you dont at some point prioritizes over the other things, the other things are going in worship forever. Unlike that, fails to me like where we are, I agree you talk about time and, secondly, the brake. Anyone talk about the nature of time, people often ask me of prosecuting the mob is like the movies well there is violence he cracks disguise over their head and a pop. Just like a melancholy. There are heads, so wasn't just permission to take em apple permission to take it.
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savings time. So we found a fantastic working paper called. Does daylight saving time? Save energy evidence from a natural experiment in Indiana, from Matthew, Cochin and Laura Grand to add and you see Santa Barbara that this is a bit of a classic decade old from two thousand eight. So I did not know much about the history of daylight saving time and I actually find it very fascinating their historic section. Look at how dearly savings I wasn't wasn't implemented often around war efforts. I did not maybe I'm just especially naive. I do not really daylight. Saving time is supposed to be an energy saving mechanism. I thought of something that was supposed to make just life a little more pleasant by her. More daylight hours, but it turns out that the uniform time active nineteen sixty six was the first federal daylight saving time law and it was actually one of the things when they
beating this law? It was really about a energy savings that Congress actually had some analysis forecasting that each additional day of daylight saving sandwich the equivalent of a hundred thousand barrels of oil per day, so these researchers, You see Santa Barbara, you know the kind of set out to figure out. Well is this true is daylight savings time saving I just want to clarify one point here- has been so much enthusiasm for the idea. The daylight saving time saves energy that it has been expanded and with it the most, Recent expansion, daylight saving time is now the case that most time is daylight savings times. What we recently did was we switch The standard time, which will end it is not the stand right is a dead. That's how that's how all in Congress has become the idea that this saves energy anyways the option this is they find that totally bank that what they do is look it they do a kind of clever experiment where they look at what happen.
when Indiana required all its counties to switch and begin practising in daylight saving time they had some. Hold out counties that we're just live in their life and standard time, ignoring daylight saving time forced ever. daylight saving time and they have to find the daily. It is time, result in a one percent overall increase in electricity demand. It's not constant throughout the year. Actually right around the time of the switch, you see even higher increases from two to nearly four percent, what they find as it is true. People are using less lights, thanks to daylight saving time, which apparently was Ben Franklin original case for daylight saving time. But they find that the increase in what people use on heating and cooling is so much higher than at swamps. That reduction and light use it there They find the daylight saving time. It costs Indiana households an average of three dollars a year and increased electricity bills which aggregates too,
Similarly, nine million dollars over the entire state see better angle. I didn't think about the arcane did not think about their industry. There is given that they weren't invented, so Europe personal grapes of daylight saving time, given that I now have a baby who does not understand it, but I mean this: it feels like a pretty in case against against daylight saving, It is kind of like cockamamie switch, which we do each year between these two different time. Zones that were we're all live in It may be dumb question I had always been told the doubt. Savings time was about farmers. So am I aligning schedule such at farmers could do their work better in the light. So This vague notion as well, and this working paper total disabused me of this notion. Note, for example, that the big daylight saving time whole doubts were rural counties in Indiana right it wasn't. It wasn't like
New York with low. In my mind these farmers, it was the farmers it and my guess I found actually the leg lit review section of this shockingly interesting That is why I really was as mad saying all about electricity savings that you actually see the country. I know eighty about this, but during like we're, or to during world war. One you see a permanent switch to daylight saving time. I think in one case, for fifteen months all because it is supposed to save energy. Germany has acted. This place that ever did daylight saving time, also in an effort to save energy I had no idea arm and plot for world domination. I had no idea how tethered to energy this is, and then you have you know these two researchers from California. It has, I think, sick. Whether in you know, isn't really is worried about these things come along and study Indiana. To show that you know it actually is doing the thing we think it's doing.
Though this should be said, there's a lot of weird daylight saving time studies right so get enough. Dolly IKEA, Nicholas Sanders founded twenty fifteen, the daylight saving some reduces crime through the sort of holier, his mechanism that, like people just go home early. and apparently criminals are not that committed to their crimes. But then there's other research from the health space that fines on the switch in the spring. When you lose an hour of sleep, actionism, pretty negative health outcomes that use actually see more hard tax. You see people getting into more traffic accidents, you know likely attributed to the lack of sleep, so whole icon on of daylight saving time. I mostly of elegant parent, focused view, which is that this is inconvenient for parents of babies and is incredibly cruising targets is like trying to tell us. I was I got you see. What happened is we change? The clocks is avoided there's no man, I want to get it.
I have never had a strong opinion about daylight saving. Simon till I had a kid- and I can't even like explain to max that the clocks are changing because he does not understand words at this point in his life and was up at five in the morning demanding breakfasted and did not have a strong argument again for why the clocks were changed. But it really it feels due to after reading this paper, like a relic of how we practise policy in the past, with less information, and now we have this information that suggests that daylight saving time is not doing the thing we hoped it would do, because air conditioners have been invented and the end of May and the energy demands of heating and cooling house actually quite significant, but it feels like there's also a lot of status quo by US dinner. I don't hear among the many issues you know we ve been talking about, that. There is a stir movement, you know, there's a much stronger room and I feel like to eliminate pennies or switch to the metric system,
then there is any one kind of advocating for moving away from daylight savings. Who is road daylight savings time lobby that keeps us going. I mean when I think about Congress, if you tell me that you know there is a policy that one pupil alike, but also it means that we burn less oil. How's Congress can hack the that they're going to react poorly that policy. We love burning oil and They like doing things that are popular, sometimes so leg. I feel the political like the political class. We have daylight savings time is increasingly opaque to me I mean why what Why do we not wise at expanding like we keeps alive? Oh it's because of the energy thing, but I have you noticed that the? U S, Recent love saving energy because I have not yet signed- much about the most recent expansion of daylight saving time so? Ok, there's an article in courts which suggests that one of the initial impetus for this was that Gulf companies.
companies involved in the barbecue and growing industry is where proponents and the aid for the for the eighties expansion of there were some. Would you be clear as serious said, war is different right. You know, like you were saying right like like. Why would you do something? That's like a moderately unpopular, but also bad for oil companies, because there's like a technocratic analysis that it would say, oil and like the answer is we do things like that in major national security emergency is, and that is the the origin of it. Apparently there was this expansion in the eightys and the Reagan administration that was pushed by leisure industry. They wanted to extend summer grilling seas, and I do not know what the most recent Spain was driven by, I mean, I know Barney Frank was a proponent of it as individual member of Congress, but you know I don't know what went nefarious interests sort of lay behind that idea. I may I actually do find daylight saving time more pleasant. I see way
other getting. It comes at a environmental costs according to this, but I do enjoy that having more daylight hours, I think we just need to choose one of I have never understood the view that this allows us to save daylight. Three hours because the net hours of daylight, is as an austrian law, Mccall Phenomena, and I'm just always a little bit puzzled by the whole thing like we could, if people choose to adjust their daily routines in response to the waxing and weighting of the daylight, that seems unobjectionable to me. I actually sometimes have changed our plan What time I wake up over the course of my life right like right now, my alarms at six twenty but like that is not how it has always been an. It seems to me that a libertarian view time could not gonna be manageable, and I have in fact advocated in a vaccine com, article and video that we now have time zones at all and that we just
People set their schedules. History of tired, I'm kinda guy, big idea here at the end of the show, but I like the idea of a libertarian take on time the weeds endorse it. I mean the point of time zones to be clear, was to reduce the number of times it's not that, like with a created the twenty four times and that each town you set its own like noon. Pegged little time and I didn't work for where worry her drawing yeah. I learned this romantic glaziers video exactly so. It's like we just kind of further consolidate for the jet era, one time zone one standard under all the Laval Weeds time, Wahid side centres around ten o clock on Tuesdays, retail. Exactly it's gonna, be it's gonna, be amazing, but if finished your weeds time. For today you know he should do Go listen to the impact tat. You can not only get a great episode on Seattle, Moxie vouchers. We can also, at a great episode on Sarah on what's
South Carolina kind of surprisingly, become a leader in preventing infant mortality, they're doing some really innovative stuff over there through their medicate programme. So we went to check so that, great stuff to listen to you while you are standing online line, devote our otherwise travelling to your point, planks we're going to see what happens in the election tonight and the three of us we'll be back tomorrow morning to talk about the result. So thanks all of you, thanks to our producers Montana. Weeds will return tomorrow morning.
Transcript generated on 2021-09-11.