« The Weeds

Second Presidential Debate Special

2016-10-10

The morning after Clinton and Trump's debate in St. Louis, Ezra, Sarah, and Matt head to the studio to talk about internal Republican divisions, Trump's threat to throw Clinton in jail, and the surprising amount of policy the two candidates covered.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This we support is also sponsored by Nature Box to Nature Baxter com weeds for fifty percent off your first order. The following podcast contains explicit language I didn't want to grumble like sniffle, although what computer, I refer, the weeds boxes. Policy podcast, independently network Matthew, Glazier, sad, join, Daddy special Monday recording session by my colleagues there cliff and as recline- and we are here early bright early because Donald Trump Hillary Clinton debated last night, and we felt that the world would want to hear about it. and what a tyrant be alive. You do so. Could be here with you both here at the end of all things
so we're going to do this and in three parts, and I think we have a great show, because this what happened here, what is happening in american politics is big. There are moments when you are living through something unusual and historic, and I think it can be hard. Sometimes, to pull our heads up and see that but american politics, one of our major political parties, is breaking down or reshuffling in in a way that I have never seen happen before, and I want to try to use this this hour. We have to do. I go through its all want to talk about three things here today that the first is the civil war than I that is now growing, their public and party. For a long time. I've been very sceptical of republican Party crack up theses, and now I think it is clearly true that affections round jumper, really changing the dynamics of this election. That the second thing I want to talk Bout that we want to talk about is Donald Trump promise to jail the lead, candidate of the political opposition as soon as he has made president and
on that some other democratic norm breaking he engaged in at the debate that stuff. I think it is very em in the end is one of these things that could be, we hope not, but but a very dangerous turning point in american politics and then finally, we do want to go into the weeds here. There was a lot Obama care on taxes on policy and last night's debate, Fair amount of it was total nonsense. Lotta word: salad, ass night should not totally mishap, but let's begin with the defections. What what happened over the last week is that the tape this two thousand and five tape of Donald Trump saying some incredibly. What did he say? What did you say? He said, among other things it when you are a star, they will. Let you do anything we want, you can grab them by the pussy. He brag about sexual assault, to Billy Bush of all but there's been by the way, a lot of discussion about this being locker room talk, and I want to note Donald Trump- was not in a locker room
He was wearing a microphone on a television set talking to a television host. I've done a fair amount of television and, when you're wearing the microphone before you go on. You know it's sort of on, but not broadcasting and you're nervous. When you p, like I take a very weird time to know, people can hear you I do not. Stan how he went from that to bragging about trend sex with a married woman and in sexual assault, but he did because he is a broken man. In some very fundamental ways. Anyway, this tape came out and what he did was that fundamental changes, dynamic of the election. In this way it deep polarized, The election it broke down the permission structure around Donald Trump. There were a lot of Republicans, practically elected Republicans, who had it endorsed orbit tromp with a very high level of discomfort. They didn't we to be on his side, but they had to be because every other republican,
there there were even eat. I think that these sort of epitome of this was tat. Crews who, in the worst timing of all time finally draw stumble chapter weeks ago and one phone banking for him and the reason he did that was. He had come to the conclusion that one Republicans had in this election, if only to keep the Senate and the house and to that on some level being or public and at this point meant endorsing Donald Trump. What happened here, though, is that dynamic began to play out in reverse, the audio we sort of a last straw moment. It didn't come on its own is, after months of Donald Trump, acting offensively, acting unpredictably radically dangerously, and a lot of Republicans began to playthings of the Senate is now not endorsing Trump, a of people, disinterest, him and the reason. That's really important. Is it the permission
structure, the Republican Party's embrace of Trump had created a floor under him. He was pretty salty, going to be around four thousand four hundred and forty six percent of the two party vote. Now that all these republicans began doing the opposite. Instead of saying that, if your Republican, you have to endorse Trump now they began saying if you're a good person you probably have to not you have This trump now we're seeing a floor fall out. A new NBC wants journal pulses trump behind fourteen points in a two party race, and I think this is a real potential. Turning point: in the election because it gives both vote republican officials, republican or individual republican, meaning independent voters. And the media a chance to not treat Trump as a the Republican, right, which is a normalization but as an as a sort of dangerous abhorrent figure, which is the deal normalization So after long temperature was being normalized by their public and party, I think we are now seeing a force which has been denied
realized. We don't know how far will go, but I think it is this. This action has fundamentally changed. What one question I have is based: but that how far does the normalization coax? I think you're right that there was over the weekend. This feeling of your maybe a good republic. Can you? U dangerous? Tromp you get off this bandwagon, despite the fact that wasn't like a huge, Surprise, I think, was hard to say that, although I gotta can't, we ve Donald Trump said that there was a bidding It was a lot of other things. He said the thing that I have trouble kind of Hangout in my head is happens to all these people, who have been pretty strong supporters of Trump who either have kind of stuck with him to me, to this. I don't think you see the same sort of you, no quick, quick movement away? There was the day after the Trump take or two days after the Trump tapes came out. Political and consulted Nepal where they found? Ninety percent of trumped supporter said they were still trump supporters. Maybe that's shifting
new pulling now suggesting that Trump is falling behind in the pause, but I am exe a little bit a ultimately leary of trusting plying at this? typically get someone calls you up and ass like who do you support, there's at that level of judgment, It's hard. For me to understand how accurately the poles are going to capture going on in one of the things. That kind of surprise me throughout the election. That It's my sends it'll keep happening going forward. But who knows what will happen next month, that there's this there's Donald Trump Base. There's a base of this party. We ve called Republican that really likes what Donald Trump talks about. who says you know he is just sing, is it is. He is eating with a very blunt person and I think kind of contrasts himself what these Wikileaks things with Clinton about the private verses public personality. I think you know you can.
We say about Donald Trump, eater Eatin, hide that this like what how he talks in hide, that this is how we feel about women that this is been a consistent characteristic I don't know, I guess I don't have an expectation at this point- that, among that base of people, that this changes, the distance and conversations with Trump support there's this? We can. Obviously this is anecdotal, but there is no sense of change one from support right now, and the and another one in the kind of the sense was well. This doesn't matter like our big issues. There's ISIS like this does not matter it's an eleven year old tape, that's kind of the defence, the Trump offered at the debate and the leaves are about. In party and like a really weird situation, this situation. I don't know how it goes forward. If you have this big trump loss, Have this bay save you're wrong. You know we're gonna, we're gonna go with what the elite wants and like we're. Gonna go back to some more traditional candidates. Vision
who bailed out our Canada, that you are the ones who some cam and like we want someone like Trump. I don't know how is a very confusing time, for, I am sure many of our listeners and for me, like thinking thrill what happens to this group of people who what if we in the primary and you seem to still support trump and will likely go in and vote for him like how do they? How? How is what is the role and the Republican Party after this election? I think it's important to not exaggerate. How much breaking with Trump has happened even from the people who did break with Trump, then I think that if you, if you look back to the original wave of sort of report, Defection some tramp. He was extraordinary. The George Age, W Bush George W Bush Mitt Romney, NI, Colin Powell Congolese array,
I mean really the most prominent people in republican Party politics over the past ten fifteen years. We're not endorsing Donald Trump that sent to you. Don't you the people sitting around the table to, I think, a lot of the elite sort of politics, riders set at establishing publications. You know a very clear signal that leading figures in conservatism were not comfortable with Donald Trump, but two things happen so that after that one is that CNN, which plays a, I think, a somewhat union role in that in the media ecosystem followed two to a large extent by some of the other. You know television, news. Decided to stage an alternate reality. Where see Dennis Committed, as a television show conceit to sort of two sided.
swine. They originated cross fire. They want to have panels that make for good television, in which some people argue for one side, and some people argue for the other side, so they got a different, stable of conservative commentators than the ones they had been using for years so that they could get people who would make the case for Donald Trump. This guy Jeffrey Lord, who was no body, became hugely elevated, trumps, former campaign manager, cordial undoubtedly came on there's this woman, whose name I can recall but whose I think like the most sociopath of them. on TV, I wanna, whose behaviour that is she was all, as I am aware, I apologize. I wish I could do footnotes to an audio forecast and that show right see an ends. Trump versus Hilary show is still on like it at the debate last night,
you didn't have any part that there's a push in there's a pole to it right so like Kelly, a yacht disinterest because she didn't want the Donald Trump millstone around her neck. Colleagues did not want to go on CNN and Debate, Donald Trump with Corey Leeuwen doubts road right, but the way that you would send a signal to voter the you would suddenly. Donald Trump is not normal signal to voters is. You would have to go up and do that you would have to join the argument right. You could go on Fox NEWS, argue with Sean handed? You could go on CNN and argue with court Lewandowski. You could do what conservative Democrats did in the nineteen seventy two election, which was John Connally, the governor of Texas, many of the more conservative southern Democrats, many of the bill
trades unions and the eighth Elsie. I owe the Endorsed Richard Nixon because they were not trying to save their skins from an unpopular democratic nominee. They were actually trying to get him to lose because they didn't like and I have not really seen even even Mitt Romney, whose, like beef with Trump, is obviously genuine has not like endorsed. Hillary Clinton has not put himself out there in conservative media aggressively and in particular, Anti trump conservatives have tended to go very quiet whenever the Poles get more narrow, but which is the opposite of what you do right. If you are sitting around in white, knuckle terror, the Donald Trump, my damn prison, the United States, you get more visible, the close of the electorate becomes even doing the opposite rights alike: congolese. Eyes is Asia, an african american woman. She
is a moderate on many domestic issues. She is known throughout her career as a specialist on Russia and the former Soviet Union, it is inconceivable to me that she thinks Donald Trump would be a good president rightly already said enough is enough. Well, she said it does just this week right, yeah tape came out right, which I am sure she found that tape repugnant, but like see was the opposite of an effective political intervention right which she didn't do was like when Trump was riding high, come up with a facebook statements lying. I disagree with Hillary Clinton about a lot of things, but I think this email hit areas. Kind of BS and Donald Trump is like a Patsy for Black Bruton. She laid low that whole time she it, turned out an email exchange with Colin Powell in which they both seem to agree that trunk was bad
but like they weren't going public, then she said colonel. I kick trump when he was down which to me is a different. It's like it's it's easy to distance yourself from a candidate is clearly going to lose so there a law of profiles and cowardice here, but I actually want to focus. On the last thing you said, because that is the way in which I think this dynamic is changing. I agree with everything you said, except to the emphasise the actual importance of the kicking when he's down dynamic, because I think what has just happened in is happening right now. Is that a lot of Republicans who were afraid to speak out against him when he was sufficiently high are using this as an opportunity to publicly commit. two opposing him and I'm not seeing opposing day in and day out on CNN, but but to coming out like with candy rice, doing a face proposing he shouldn't be president. Creating this
nor is it will be out there in the media. That will be echoed. Have you done? I do think this is tangible effect Paul Ryan came out today, and he said he's not this forcing Trump but he's not going to defend him either every member of the house should do what is best in their district. So is that owing to matter because Poland is finished. when on Fox NEWS and are you wish unhandy no know it won't, but that is one of a number of signals. That is being sent to resource allocating players in the Republican Party to not resources to making the Donald Trump campaign Victorious right there. Dumb job is not running good campaign. The orange see, among others, has to make decisions about putting a of money into this one house district for putting more money into broader, battleground you tv for Trump and the decisions I think, are starting to tat. There is already some evidence of currency pulling money from from different backgrounds, they're going
I think start moving to trying to hold the house and that's actually pretty important thing. It's one more thing: the poles from behind the other thing is that I think these things have of self reinforcing quality when Trump was up a lot of these actors, weren't coming out, because the other one coming out now that he's down your swing to see them come out because the other ones are coming out. If Rob Portman, and Kelly. I ought at least some rakowski and Jason Chaff its. And Condi Rice and all these folks have come out and said, because I'm decent person, I have to stop off the train. All I think that there are the Republic have elected officials who want to be seen in history as a decent person and are going to want to step up the train an end. What that creates, which it I do think is important The media has struggled about. How did you of trumpets and seeing them is a great example of it. It is struggle between
reading Trump as one thing he is, which is republican nominee and is another thing, yes, which is a dangerous aberration and american politics, and a kind of oscillate between the two things, the more the Republican Party abandons trumpet the more it sends. The contrary signal that he is not a representative of the Republican Party, but he is something new and look you see this new dynamic of republic, the distant Orson him that pretty very different kind, of media coverage deal utilizing kind of coverage which is in pretty sharp contrast to the legitimize in kind of coverage. The media has given trump at many points in this election, so I do think it. or so I dont get matters in the sense of that the every institution the party will not is abandoned but oppose him, but I think that one of my additional premises. Trump basically had a floor under him set by the Republican Party, and I think that Floris crumbling and as for crumbles, the range of
comes becomes much wider and goes to this pole today. This NBC also Journal Paul the chose Trump behind by ten points in a four way race and fourteen points in a two hour, race on the one hand, that could just be differential response, it could be the people who are trump supporters to disappoint our no law, our embarrassed right now to say it to upholsterer. It also could mean that Trump might end up with a butcher in the thirties, which I think is now possible because remember he also doesn't have a GEO tv there's. A lot going on here that they could depresses share. I think, as people pie pretty discouraged and in this else to me like it, it's going to go somewhere pretty rough Republicans, but that create Another problem is what I meant when I said earlier, that I'm sorry become a believer in their public and civil war, the rich story of Donald Trump is a collision between the preferences of republican parties, elected class, which did not want Trump and both other kinds of republican elites. Like me,
mediately, tore more open to him and very much republican base, which it won't trump. Now you can have a situation where Trump potentially loses by a very big margin. For Republicans, the Senate, where they may be even lose a house and what has happened at the end? Is it? The Republican elected established and in the eyes of many conservative voters stopped Trump in the back. They disinterest they out and and and went for themselves and it, not like there aligned, I think Sir mentioned a politico Paul that pretty quickly found at most Republicans wanted trumped up and maybe that will change in the coming days, but I bet as good seventy percent of them will stick with wanting jumped to be the nominee and forty four then we'll stick with loving trump and feeling that he has been like crucified by corrupt republican establishment by a corrupt media and trumpet only going to encourage that he's already been tweeting about. You know the hypocrites who
you know the abandoned me- will see their pole numbers drop. You know he might start from tee to try to get his superintends audience there so We see of a fight in the republic by a genuine civil war, I think, is what it's gonna look like. I think a lot of actors are gonna feel betrayed by their approval. And to abandon tromp shown. How did I tweeted or wrote a couple months ago that, if Trump loose He was gonna blame all these media figures at the Wall Street Journal that were not sufficiently pro trump and going to be a coterie of folks. Their public party is an abandoned jump and mass part of it is splitting, and part of it is not just staying but areas at the sputters and will blame them for whenever negative, for conservative outcomes emerge like, for instance
content, naming the swing Supreme Court justice. If you're anything like me, you know sometimes you wanna snack end. If what's a wound snack on his junk food, you gonna eat junk food and it's not great. So if you want a short and live a healthier life, he would start snacking healthier with nature box. It makes next that actually taste great and their better for you, the great with high quality ingredients that are free from artificial colors flavors of sweeteners. She can feel ok about snacking. I like some their dried fruit stuff. They got great apples, grey hairs. They also have some in a slightly more indulgent, principally things in their that that I also call for, and they recently made their service even better. You can order as much as you want, as often as you want with no minimum perched required, and you can cancel it at any time. I so it's really simple. You gonna Nature box, tat, calm! You check out their snap catalogue. There's our
It smacks to choose from there always adding new stuff. She choose what you want. They deliver read your door, it's easy, but nature wax you'll, never get bored is new stuff there, each month, it's inspired by real customer feedback and for some reason something comes you don't like it. They will replace it for free, that's a good opportunity to try something new, I'm so right, now, you're, safe, even more because nature boxes offering offence fifty percent off your first order. If you got a nature box, dot com, slash reads: she got a nature box, tat, complex weeds that we get credit. You get. Fifty percent of the first order, Nature box, tat, calm, slash. make us. It makes me more sceptical of this idea that the tape leads to leads to closure and on election day that you end up with this really low vote share, because Republicans had been given permission to walk away. I know it sounds like it is a hard for me to think through at this point in that sounds like a plausible scenario, but I wouldn't right off the idea that you a lot of people who are getting very
energized by their own know how many of them are. I don't think we knew the people who really support trumped up with a good good and of how how many of them there were until this election Cayman, it happened and Trump was there's a candidate, but they give You ever read bright Bart, which, as you know, a varied in the world that allow these people are living and I Amiens Great NEWS for Tramp Tramp- is doing great and they're using the defections they're using all this change is kind of a rallying cry. The thing I have trouble thinking through as I have another but there are to be rallied who, like warrant rallied already like. If you look at the people, vote, the primary sector. Really intense voters is that the unit Sivas support or like are, there are other people who are looking at this thing: get this guy is getting like betrayed that this guy is getting stepped in the back by party. I don't I don't. how how these defections play out, but I less. I could see it going
either way of veto leaving Trump with a similar vote shared what he had before or or ending up like. You said this historically, I think this is really bad for them. I mean, I think those viewpoint bright part is not a big website like they loom large and people's heads, but they're, not a big. It's no vaccine right. If we read the stag smell like the had there, not because we are so it's an end were huge Anna juggernaut in the new media landscape, but we don't represent, America either, you will not say it's a winning campaign strategy to get good coverage own no sir, there are not already read, will address Fox NEWS, like its entire had that's already starting to waver, like Megan Kellynch, on how to do or in a fight about Donald Trump. I mean this is what I mean that this is the primary strategy over again like what what Donald Trump, when the primary was he recognized at a fairly small but highly activated base of super. and could actually triumph in a multi candidate field,
and win, but it's a pretty small number people. What has been happening is its trump is heading on not just like the people like him, which lets it's pretty big rate of thirty three percent of the country like stop, that's a ton of fucking people, but he also needs people kind. I don't like him and if you look in all. We know that the majority of people like sixty some percent of people have a negative view of Donald Trump, but we also know the damage is out pulling is favourable rates like sixty some percent, population is, is negative but his and I forgot what the approval numbers are, but he's a higher than is He routinely pulls higher than the number of people who think he's qualified to serve in office and like that delta, there are people who Joe like Donald Trump, but are going along with us, because the Republicans Publicans you don't like Hillary Clinton if that group drops like that, a disaster regular changes donor like these senators coming out like lead or that it may not. I don't know where we have seen this. I can't think of this happening before us like yours, that group
permission or do they still sailing better than the alternative. Doing I think there's like this to be downside risks at therefore Republicans. one is that the new cycle becomes filled with infighting right either because Trump lashes out at some of the people who have abandoned him because one of a ban. Dinners says something really pointed that gets hit the headlines because Sean Hannity who's up some shit. You dont know exactly why, but he just if the I'm in a story becomes Republicans are arguing with each other about whose fault this is. I think that is bad for morale right. It tends to depress the turn out of republican suit like Trump and Republicans who dont like Trump. Is it just like it's it's a bad vibes story and it distract attention from their common ground, which is that they don't like killer click right
what would pull Ryan clearly with like to do is set my? Have there been no more stories that are and to just talk about the fact baseline republican Party voters. Don't think that Hillary Clinton has good ideas about America right, because he Democrats can even go up two or three points in the generic ballot and he can hold his majority Roger. Would they can't do is go up eight or nine and the way they get up that high is republican, suggest be like sad, but but easily get sad by getting embroiled in in fighting. I mean he's position that he is not going to comment on like the most important
interesting story is I mean it's good for him he's very disciplined, but the it's hard to make that really stick right as it as a strategy. The other thing is that, because this is a podcast it and not print out going to toss out the bold prediction that I think there is more trump upper out, that girl, they got up all the protection, be curious if the ninety ninety five tax return weaker, only had access to one years worth of Donald Trump tax returns, I dont know who that would be right, who only had the one year. I think this idea that a threat of a law suit, for five million dollars is keeping every single person who worked on any season of the apprentice sitting. Videotape is like a little, not credible right. All it takes is one guy who had access to that footage
Who is a Democrat who would like to be famous put that I would like to be famous just give it to me. Tat had rung anonymously right. Yes, yes, exactly, and I think that something people have not fully there stood in this campaign, but that I firmly believe basin years of reporting, that the Clinton campaign believes to be true is It is still too soon to put out your best anti Trump Papa campaign of facts are very real and they are very shortly. Write stuff fades out: normally, a campaign Releases some good dirt on optimally early because they fall behind at some point and they wanted to
in the story: they need to get the donors and the volunteers and stuff back on sides. Clinton has never been behind, so she's never had a reason. If there's like a good bag of tricks there to throw the best stuff out there, so I think there is something probably that they have. That will come out after the third debate when there's nothing, no time left to hold it for, and Republicans are dealing with? You know elected officials or trying to position as those dealing with a lot of uncertainty. Right I mean we know for a fact that there is something very embarrassing and download from tax returns. I mean like that is clear. the true- and we know that there is someone who is leaking sum of Donald Trump tax returns, and you really have to ask yourself if you're running somewhere does that person
have the embarrassing information, and it just doesn't out has Hillary Clinton had this for months like is that that's been more of a point of emphasis than Donald trumps get a black cat. discrimination. Lawsuit. I mean you don't know, but it's it's a big big, big hazy cloud hanging over this whole thing I think is one of the reasons why the tape precipitated so much bolting was a little bit of a like an oh shit moment that, like ok, that's Take. We just saw its not the only type of damage that exist and to your point- and I think your timing point is really important here. The tape came out two days before a debate the tape didn't come at randomly. It came out at a time maximally calculated to rattle Donald Trump and interrupt any debate prep. He was doing so. He get back on his feet right. They they they try. It like this was the ultimate price,
occasion so yeah? I think it's very likely there's other stuff out there and they are not really it randomly their releasing at times a day of plant, most by want to go back to the first thing. He said, I think it's a good sacred or our second topic here. You talked about how the connective tissue and republican Party that the law common denominator. Right now is hatred for Hillary Clinton. That is ultimately what could hold the coalition you ever. It is what Donald Trump thinks will hold the coalition together and Trump in his often kind of ham handed making too much subtext text way decided to take a stab at this at the debate he decided to create a debate that, because he lives in said the bright Bart Universe, would be the one that he thought Republicans who hated. Hillary Clinton wanted to see and hear so right before the debate. Donald Trump sent out a tweet and said: please join me for my debate. Prep live on Facebook and he was holding a press conference with, will need a project covering Willie,
Paula Jones, who are three women who accused Bill Clinton of sexual misconduct of some sort or another. Then at the debate very early on. He said I hate to say this. I didn't want to say this, but if I am elected I will point a special so you to look into Hillary Clinton and then she said. Well, it's a good thing president, any said to just make everything perfectly clear. Yes, as if I was president, you would be in jail. So What he did was he went out and he didn't play too. Like Republicans hate Hillary Clinton, he played too bright parts. Form of hatred, for Hillary Clinton she's, not she's a bad person or has bad ideas, and should it be president, but peace he didn't know that her husband is a sexual predator and she should she is literally a criminal who should be in jail, and this, I think, was a very bad. And is abandoned for copper reasons and in addition to being in that, certainly, and in some forms a pretty scary move, but what Trump did was right.
rather than create a narrative bid is going to, he could have really just focused on emails and Benghazi. He had a couple good shots on her like when he organ she's, a tool, a special interest in? Why doesn't she don't eat her own campaign? Hits a reasonable attack. nineteen there, but instead he created Laurie line where one Republicans remember what happened when they try to tax Bill Clinton. Who is actually the guy? Who did this stuff potentially did the stuff, for it and I lost the ninety nine eight mid term elections. They should have one so begins, really didn't want to go down this road, practically elite, Republicans but number to trumpet a fundamental way called a very basic foundational norm of our democratic process into question, which is that we resolve political disputes through elections, not through jailing. opposition and so what Media is talking about afterwards, because of the media is very invested in the idea that there is a free democratic says
because one thing and that free democratic system is, we don't get thrown in jail. Usually for writing things that candidates not like there. A tremendous amount of talk correctly about Trump, posing a threat to the country. and so, rather than having opened a conversation about Hillary Clinton misdeeds, he is actually open to question about own tendency for vengeance and the ways in which his somewhat erratic, somewhat vengeful, somewhat autocratic personality with interact with the powers of the american presidency and one dimension which is is scary. It is scary to have a man like this, this close to the presidency, but the other dimension it is. It was unwise because what down the river prom, Donald Trump. His facing was not that Republicans didn't hate Hilary enough it's if they were not sure he should be president, things like the leaked audio had made them even more unsure? He should be. President
than solving that problem and doing something that would make him look more presidential. He made himself look more like a threat to the very system itself, more like the kind of unusual radical agent who you might actually need to break with a normal boundaries of partisanship. To make sure never takes the presidency so one I think we're in a dangerous place it. This is even on the table, but two I think it was a very bad move and won the campaigners sticking ethic. had always presidential candidate MIKE Pen, saying, like you know it That was the best part of the debate was when he said: he'd put Clinton in jail and Amy. I think it's seeks to it. This is the thing we've hit on the weeds before, but the could have some of the structural things of the Trump campaign that you were saying like kids to break our universe. It's a pretty small group of people. There are a lot of people staking out trunk towers on Saturday, whereas Maggie Haber men in the times at a great piece about five trump. Increasingly being
kind of alone and upset and his like large tower in Manhattan, but it really, this kind of small core group of people, that e c, they don't seem to be creating a sort of challenge to the way The term views the world, and I think that kind of speaks to. If you think of how do you end up oh, I like this in the debate you end up with that when no one is going to say, like MR trampling- maybe maybe that's not a good pain, move or of anyone who says that, maybe just as night if not when we listen do, is not to be part of the inner circle, but it Emily strikes me as a little bit incredible that you couldn't make parents who on Saturday, was like upset and like there's, rumours he's like going to drop off the ticket on Monday has fallen back in line, saying
I think this is the best part of the debate. I thought he was so strong and I think that really pushes backing others. This kind of ethos over the weekend of the trauma of pence should take the ticket trump should drop drop off. I think makes it absolutely clear that there is not a republican Savior right in my patents. I'd give anything he takes out of the the blame for the rise of trumpet joining the ticket. Saying I endorse this guy, like I'm a good conservative and really there This is kind of a nail in the coffin and where he decides he's going to take this Thing that is like very much at the core of of the way that you said that trumps base hates Hilary entailing bat is, that is the best, one moment. I want to draw attention to my pencil part of Trump Alex he's not he's not a split from tromp or an option to split from trot, but this boy
I was a little surprised by how taken aback people were by that moment, and I guess one reason is that I watched what struck me at the time as a bizarre spectacle. That did not seem to get people of feeling. What was all that bizarre, but was dreams. Call me delivered a let all talk to the american people about pillar is email thing in which he said that there was not a prosecutable cry I am and then because he knew that Republicans didn't want here, that he totally through the normal standards of prosecutor, ethics out the window and just gave alike off topic Series
political hits on Hillary Clinton, which is the kind of thing that I mean you would get anyone else fire immediately for doing right. If Europe police detect and you just clear somebody for crime. You don't go out at a camera to talk a lot of shit and no, I don't believe, call me. I know some people like deep in Clinton world are like. Oh, my god, how come you have done that call me was a tough position institutionally and to defend these standing of the the eye and, to some extent, the integrity of the federal President Oreo process. He had to undermine it a little bit and like say two Republicans: ok, eyes, you wanted some good attack ads and Hillary Clinton here here are the air here is me just like saying: she's back right, but there's no crime, we're not prosecuted right. So you
Thought Republicans Mighty said: ok, I'm gonna bank. That is a win. That's that's within we're. Gonna do the straight been Barack Obama's own FBI. Directors says she was extremely careless, but that's not what they did. They hold him before Congress so that they could all give him a hard time, and you know so. We had Jason Chief, it's who there is a very clear distinction between chafe, its trump bright. He was always a lukewarm from guy Trump down endorsed a more men he's from Utah is unpopular, nothing to do with Trump says. I have defended your integrity every step of the way, but I mystified and confuse tray gouty, whose, like a moron, said why she being treated differently than the rest of us would be when coming explained exactly why, before any, they gave him as it was like a whole. Geared afternoon were again. I call me is a republican
with a high ranking member of the George W Bush Justice Department. Every FBI director ever in history, has been a republican staff of the FBI. I mean I don't have the data, but like it it's a lot of republican guys right. There was some like secret cover up hey. Why would there be a secret cover up be like somebody would have leaked about it? see it's honestly map mysterious said she didn't break the law. That's why he didn't recommend prosecuting are, but they all went like in on this in, like a weird way. Anyway. What we, Tromp picked up the same baton. Everyone else am I doing I mean I agree. They were all. I got but more certain clever about it shape. It was like. I don't know director call me its mysterious to me why she has it been locked up, whereas trumpet just like gauge thrown in jail, but this is where they all gone on this issue and its it's really odd. To me,
even understand what crime it is. They think she's committed, but it this is it's a little bit trump being different from Republicans, because it's like Trump just come out with the applause line, while other people have come out with the like savvy political strategy, but the this sentiment is is fairly common and I you know, I think we're seeing this can be. The dominant in proponents do hold the house the dominant political story of January twenty. Seventy It is going to be the ongoing investigation into them, matter of the thirty three thousand deleted emails that that she says it is personal. One And why she is in jail, for, I think that's right. I mean do. You think I do understand why last night had a crystallizing effect, because our has a slow build up. Something is weird here on the other Our spectacle is obviously the republican convention. You had Chris Christie doing that very strange, she's guilty speech were here just talking about like she's guilty of
about healthcare policy and guilty of doing stuff. I don't like Christie. Potential is actually guilty, the gradual, related Brigitte, it's about self has come out here and there You see you had with the general who's gonna total lack of Michael saying should be in jail. So you saw that happening there, but There is actually an m for getting a little bit about what it was, but there is actually a moment in Trump speech where he backed off that I don't. I don't with the exact line, but he was like we're. Gonna beat her another election and then, and so fine, it would seem like one of these things with the aid of the Republican Party had threesome a fish. on the stage, God noble but out of control. But you know: ok, more is clear: cooler hustle prevail. It's fine what Trump did here was. He came on, he said, and this is called the Republicans saying? Oh my god, you know with the FBI. It's not it's not doing what we thought of it.
He comments at all subvert the normal process. I will use the power in my office in a way that pleases me and I will just put her in jail and one reason I think that had this at all that the larger effect than than things have is one it was a presidential Domini saying at the two. I think people believe this is true about Donald Trump, so Darlin did a fantastic peace for vocs. I really recommend people read this: he Google Box and how come it punishes enemies. You will find it. It is a wonderful piece of reporting, but she really looked with some detail to the ways it a vengeful president could use the powers of the executive branch to harass heart in an otherwise punish those who have wronged him or her and there's a lot it's not just appointing special prosecutors and throwing people in jail. Eighties the IRS it using the Anti trust power of the department of just
DES, which trump by the way has alluded to that he would use anti trust against Jeff basis because he's about the Washington Post coverage of him. It using the just like basic regulatory. Apparatus to harass businesses that you don't like it using the contracting money to take business from a contract who in some way are owned by or invested in by folks, like more cuban a tremendous amount. You can do it's a very big government and at any, given but there are- and this is about, like so many regulations and laws- that if you really looked most people are probably in violation of something, so such can do a lot there. He has our regulated himself that he is eventual person he has said in its two thousand and seven book that is full sophie on life is it. If he is wronged, he will do it ten times harder back to the person who did it to him. So we know has his tendency in em. We know he's brag about it and now he's
coming out in saying it is coming out in staying. He would use ie architecture and machinery of the state to punish those who have wronged him, and that's right, scary, and it's not just about Clinton like as a member of the press. I completely think Donald Trump or try to retaliate again. Suppress he's talked about He talked about trying to reform libel. Also, it is easier to sue members of the press. We know what the Obama station, which has tried to bring lawsuits against folks who absorbed leaks, cost I leaks trump- can do a lot with that. you can go yet further than where the Obama administration did. I think the Obama administration has gone too far and stuff and there's just a tremendous amount that could done. What Trump has done is like a giant signal that he just would do it and that's Gary is a envisaged. It is genuinely scared of a man like that so close to the presidency and and your points, Sarah, which I think is right on it is so scary, to see the people around
The trump who are supposed to act as a guard rails. Right, like the argument for like a my pants, is it he is a vet. in established normal politician who and trot Choosing him suggested a trump was going. have those kinds of advisers round him guiding and restraining him might pay coming out in pathetically endorsing that moment in the debate. It shows it now there would be no check. It would just be trumpet only listen to the people who backed him up and and even in any case, a lot of the people who, you might think would have more restrained like your Chris Christy's, like you're my pencil, don't that this in Is lying there late in the Republican Party waiting for the crack ought I had to come along and Anne and use it. Never he's going take the lines out of the states Other lines are gone, that's good, does a transition. As I see waiting for removing the lines between the segments. No,
between states between insurance markets can be beautiful. so we had is surprising amount of actual policy talk, particularly Obamacare, it was very surprising to me to have a good think, so no eight minutes. A lot of it was the very words out that kudos was happening, but that I read that Skype. So I would know what was happening. It was rising deceived, discuss to such an extent and when you read through it, rise listing Donald Trump Isaac out, even if he knows what has health policy is here. but you can actually does still it down to a few things: ritual, Canada and there's mother policies. I think we'll hit terrible start with care, because when I I think what you saw. Two things are interesting to me in the health care part one Clinton being elevate critical of the law in the way the Obama administration isn't she was paid, I was surprised when you have this questioner, ask about rising premiums, that she didn't even like bother dimension. These subsidies
there's something I hear from the administration. All the time like, ass, you have these rising premiums, put their subsidies and she just said yeah the premiums premiums are too high, and this is a it's just me unaware and think about before that, a new mechanic administration would be more willing to criticise I would be more willing to speak, she was just going to say. You know the premiums are too high like that is a problem of Obamacare. That was essentially at the core of Clinton's remarks about this. bill contents remarks about this being a crazy system. It's been interesting to see that dynamic and laughed Donald Trump The very bizarre version of what Obamacare would look like if you were president or what healthcare would look like and he spent a lot of time talking about how about yours too expensive, like it's, become so burdens for the government. They keep asking for more money. totally removed from the truth, is, I think, one of the bigness concept
and we found in pulling that we ve done, is that Obamacare has come in over budget. It's actually been well below the cost that that Serbia are projected. Some of this is news or about my care. It means less people are signing up ban. That means we have to spend less on subsidies, but is patently false at this thing is too expensive? and then, as Matt was alluding to. Theirs is very bizarre idea that we're going to fix all of what is wrong with american Healthcare by allowing insurance to sell across state lines. So this is an idea that conflicts around a conservative health policy- it is part of a suite of idea. I want to emphasise that normally Republican see those words which have meaning- and oh yes, instead of working to cover the usually it's all that insurance companies selling sales policies are say, lines which listening. You can say: oh, What he is saying is currently you can't sell, he's across their lives, but in the New republic and paradigm they will took, doesn't every we do like
spiny toy journalism, about policy and trump. Just like doesn't he just kept saying of thing: there's lions around price to AIDS and we're going to get rid of this is basically like it. It was not clear They conveyed, but it wasn't lines were like that and then there is like a quick mentioned. The end and like oh by the way blocker at medicated was a lie and lawyers av clear states how get order. So, yes, kid could do a quick refund on this policy you know why one explain, warehouses and then you can refer to the idea is right. Now every state gets to send their own selves, set their own policies for selling to New York for action it has a lot of insurance mandates, a gift to cover, maybe like fertility treatment. To cover in a different sorts of things, whereas other states are very laugh like in Alabama, maybe certain things you don't have to cover that you cover New York. So the idea here is that we can increase insurance, competition by letting these plans and Alabama also NEO the people in New York. We want less robust coverage can by those cheaper plans, and you have more insurance cover
in more insurance cover right or more insurance competition, and now it will turn it over to as refer for some ripping on this. I can't stand this policy. I think it's one of most bizarre there. There too insurance equilibrium, as it makes sense in american health, get one, is tough national and national insurance regulation right to say that we have identified as a country. What is the line here? Another study states do it that makes sense to states are closer to them. People. Different states want to different equilibrium, find the idea Is it the way you would regulate? American health care is to let the least regulatory state do it is absolutely baffling. So if you get a credit, if you know your credit card statement, basically all credit card statement, come from South Dakota, and the recent Cover South Dakota is that South Dakota is it you can't so credit card policies across state lines and South Dakota away
ago decided they want to get a bunch of credit card jobs in their in their state. Basically took out credit card regulation and so early located there and see you have a tremendous amount and and for a very long time had tremendous around of really sneakers behaviour from the credit card industry certain be sensibly like you a default on something than all of your credit card rates would go up without anybody town you a lot of this got regulating Dodd Frank, but we had a very. long time where the way credit cards is regulated was in sane and the way the reason it was insane was that we had set up a competition or whichever sweet, wanted jobs with a credit card industry could get them by giving the lowest level of regulation possible, and then people and other states who did not want to be screwed over by credit card companies had no choice. They just got sold stuff, they didn't understand and that had very, very, very little protections built around it wouldn't even work is the other things are later. This is so you have this credit card analogy you can't we locate your doktor offices
relocate your hospital. So there is a great study that Sabrina CORE lad she's, a researcher, Georgetown Debt and twelve, that I wrote about during between twelve election like that AIDS wherewith Answer- and I probably should write about again today, because why not for your by supper, but she found she looked for states, there's nothing. Stopping states from doing there's like estate convey anyone can sell here. Enforced states did that an insurance competition didn't increase, and you know argument around this is that building in mid network as hard either of you are this Alabama plan and like your headquarters in Alabama, and also you need to create an insurance network in New York, and you need all these doctors and, like you, need to get these hospitals are more like negotiate rates, the obstacle to selling a new states doesn't seem to be the benefit mandates. The obstacles to selling a new states seems to just be the difficulty of setting up an insurance now
I want to say that when I emphasise that also looks, he drowned geyser arguing against my pencil healthcare plants, but that the remarkable thing to me about this Donald Trump performance is it Donald Trump does not seem to be familiar with Donald trumps. Talking point yes on these policy issues, and one thing that I have repeatedly see in it you guys who are well versed in healthcare policy. Very accusatory under an internet unuttered like Sera, understood what conservative health care talking points. Donald Trump was alluding to and can explain what the policy behind those talking wants is, but Trump did not views the talking. Its correctly. There was another thing which I criticized. My article were Donald Trump said:
she is new in terms of nuclear which, with baffling to me, and I interpreted as Trump saying, that Russia's nuclear weapons programme is new when in fact, it data nineteen, forty, nine someone from inside the conservative defence universe, informed me that were trumpets I am to say is that Russia has undertaken an expensive nuclear forces, modernization programme that the United States has not done there is this like oppose all in the new budget for us to go. Do it much good good for Trump, but that's what he said. You know. He said this thing about the corporate. Come tax which he didn't say he was cutting the corporate income tax rate, but desert use referencing and then he said, lowering taxes is quote so important for corporations, because we have corporations leaving massive corporations and little ones little ones can't form, and that is in.
Doesn't make any sense. That's not! I know what the argument for a lower corporate income tax rate is. It has to do with double taxation of capital, and, like this a lot you can do little corporate its current form the that's ridiculous and it had, he doesn't know what he is saying and me, when one of the most remarkable asks that the term campaign, its Hillary Clinton is unusual in how of a veteran. She is of national. Politics is actually quite typical for presidential nominee to be kind of under power In terms of their knowledge of these issues, you know, Obama Wise, Mitt Romney wise when he ran Bill Clinton certainly was in eighteen. Eighty two, some other people like how D and who didn't work out were George Bush, certainly was but what they do is over the course of the campaign they give you this sum where's journey, which date a mass increasingly impressive.
stirs of advisers, show increasingly sophisticated knowledge of the issues this and the lines around the states thing. This was jewelry just read out that is so there these items. You mentioned the lines that I found. One is you're going to have to you're, going plans that are so good because we weren't have competition once we break out the lines and allow the competition to come later. When we get rid of those lines I'll competition last as we have to get rid of the lions around the state, artificial are we stop insurance companies from come again and competing because they want and present, Mama, whoever is working on it. They want to leave those lines because back as insurance companies, essentially monopoly is open borders for health care. Also, Israel, quick at I know the doings over matters criticising me for doing here, but I just want to know what he says: you'll have insurance products so good when people think of what a good insurance product is, they think it's after defensive, but they think of something that covers your health care colleague within that makes it turns good. Is it it's actually,
reliable. The literal thing you are trying to make possible to do by getting rid of the lines it have much worse first than our Asher and like this? It covers that you were thinking not language about Obamacare that they give all Europeans to choose from, and there really crappy plans with. I did ask he's already complaining about the Dutch wasn't Obamacare, but his literal plan is to make it possible to have much higher deductibles. They cover fewer if they so wish. As it does in calling Albania. But that is to the point he doesn't know. What he's propose great? It's a copy of a copy of a copy, playing bright with some we're in like the heritage predation basement. There's an inch its planned that this is a provision of and like someone who read, that plan told him something about lines between the states but February. Marker Rubia was making fun of him for this like lines gibberish. it will be with not attacking the content of the idea, like he's a paid up Republican,
He believes in this interstate competition on, but he was just making the point in the favourite debates it Donald Trump doesn't nobody's too king about he slew wanting and raving, because health care policy is not important to Donald Trumps, political appeal, you know which is like about other things straight, but normally just as a politician. What happens? If you have the issues you want to talk but you are forced to sometimes address other issues, and you show over time that you can get better at it and from just doesn't do that. and he sometimes I want to say, he's gotten away with it. Now he looks like he's losing, but the reason why traditionally we have expected politicians too to show this is not because voters care necessarily about the sophistication of your health insurance.
tongue. Wine spends because we understand that something that happens when you president, is that unexpected stuff happens. Obama didn't like want to deal with it Gulf of Mexico oil spill that wasn't like a good agenda setting for him, but it happened, and you have to get some people on the phone. Some, like your be list advisers. You gotta find some experts, you gonna work it out and Trump does not work out. Anything at all, he has no idea what's going on and on any of these issues, even on his like horror, trade thing, he can't state correctly what these sophisticated argument is that bill click This policy is undermined. American manufacturing jobs. He just he gets goods years for this line about and after being the worst deal ever? So you just keep saying and like he's completely indifferent to this question and
Trump has done a lot of stuff. It's like grow, sir, then be kind of like your ignorant uncle ranting and raving, but I do think there's like a baseline, that you should be able to recognize with people who are on your side. Right is like ok. I might like agree with my one friend, broadly speaking, about who. should vote foreign politics and who the bad guys are. But I have lots of friends who are like that who are just like they're, not knowledgeable about politics and government and its good, that they are in other lines of work and like the most people out or have a problem with them. But, like that's Donald Trump like, why would he be pressed it's a ridiculous idea when it speaks to its having returned my earlier. This idea of nine. having his views either challenge are informed by advisers. Penicillin. You really knows conservative health policy that when he has done a lot of pioneering stuff in terms in setting the agenda. There's a lot of governors right now who are trying to kid
be what MIKE pensions did in Indiana, with his block grant. there is someone he is very close to who could easily like walking through, like these are my ideas on health care. They are quite popular with Ike Republicans, there's evidence there, both increasing coverage, lowering costs I think I have a great idea. Donald Trump doesn't even know that. No, I don't know I don't eat. I look at my pen right, you're gonna. U As you have like all these republican. When, like look it MIKE I want to do it. My pants does in Indiana in my state that Kentucky is literally trying to do that at the zoo, moment, and I think it speaks to. You're saying or using earlier that there are these people here in ITALY. Some of them are the quaint informed I'm policy issues that you do not see that translating onto the debates age in any railway chums extraordinary flaws have a tendency to distract from his ordinary but very consequential flaws. This is one of those places, the fact that he is holding its
vintage jail. His political opponents and holding press conferences with Bill Clinton's sexual misconduct accusers can distract from the fact that every he sat on policy is gibberish, and so I would say, I am not sure, he'd, be a good precedent, I'm starting to doubt that he is a good choice for President of United States coming next week to see if the pivot and persuaded me to make a plug here. If we're winding down, it's very related to the show might buy interview on the other clan chose makers with Francis Fukuyama about what is Hap, whether the emir, medical system is decaying, and I think that if you join this, The topics you might enjoy listening to that the weeds, VOX Dot, com and panoply production. They get pretty Seraphim Shapiro to Matt and Sarah, and to all of you, find people were here this week and will be here and we hope
Rick.
Transcript generated on 2021-09-14.