« The Weeds

The sandwich generation: Caring for kids and seniors

2023-10-25

The struggles of caretaking are nothing new, but there’s a trend emerging as baby boomers get older: More and more younger adults are becoming part of the “sandwich generation.” That means they’re caring for young children and aging loved ones at the same time, and this change is exposing gaps in eldercare policy. More than half of Americans in their 40s and a quarter of adults overall are becoming part of this growing cohort. This week on The Weeds, we sat down with Vox senior correspondent Anna North about how we got here, what to do, and what’s next. 

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Baby boomers are aging. Their kids aren't ready. 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Support, for this episode comes from via its or experiences are what people love the most about travel? That's why, by its or is over three hundred thousand book a bull experiences, so there's always something for everyone. The offer everything from simple tours to extreme adventures. Plus via tourist travel experiences, have millions of real traveller reviews. So you had the income mason. You need the book the best activities for your trip down all the votes, tor ab now in use cold bite or ten per ten percent off your first booking in the ep. One app over three hundred thousand travel experiences, you'll remember, do more with lights or support for the show comes from at last year. At last, he and software, like jura, complements and trailer help power we'll collaboration for all teams, so they can accomplish everything. That's impossible alone, because individually were great but together we're so much better, no matter if your team up to two hundred or two million at last year,
offer keeps everyone connected and moving together as one towards shared company goals. Learn how to unleash the potential of your team at it last and dot com. That's a eighty l, a s s! I a n dot com at last season, The This is the weeds, I'm jungle and help families in america. Arches Jeanne we're getting married later in life, we're getting married at all we're having fewer kids in life to and that's it we're having kids at all and on top of that, the costs of child care is at an all time high these.
Differences in our families aren't just impacting the way we raise kids and build community, but the ways we take care of our loved ones as they age to more than half of americans in their fortys and a quarter of adults overall, are becoming part of the so called sandwich generation, meaning there taking care of children, but also caring for aging relatives starting a family later isn't the only reason this happens. Caretaking can come early for other, unexpected reasons. My mom started showing signs of dementia when she was like fifty five or so, my name is john at dinner, and and I'm trying our kazaa that analysed, we're doing a lot of like data science. Work in data analytics were super fun. I love doing it in addition to caring for his mom John and his wife, if child and another on the way, but this is something he's been planning for, since he picked his major for college throughout the entirety of my college career. I was always thinking about what came at the end.
That, which was that I'd be taking care of my mom and that was sort of like always on the forefront of my mind. So I was like what's a job that I'd probably be able to at some I may be able to do remotely sounds like well, it's going to be a job in computer science most likely, and I can save by the grace god. I was able to find a remote job today on the weeds, a growing piece of the care crisis, the so called sandwich generation, the policies that created it and the policies that could fix it. John story is unique, but it's an example of the ways families are being stretched, thinner and thinner as they try to bridge multiple care gaps. I started caring for my mom when I was in college. The needs of her care have changed.
the years and at the beginning of it it was more sally. My mom just needed supervision for the started off with things like this, for getting her choose or not. Knowing, where is she put? Something were then, as I too progressed a like other things and as a progressive continue that when she required more care to the point where you need at twenty four, seventy provision in twenty four seven care, I never anticipated being like a sandwich generation caregiver, twenty five, twenty six, it's hard right now to care for my mom like to provide her with the attention and he needs we were thinking about? Oh well, we have a baby now and how are you going to navigate life with two people that are on two different ends of the spectrum of life? I think it's so interesting that you talk about caring for people who are sort of at the end of the spectrum when it comes to the journey of life, and I'm wondering if you see any parallels,
it's in that care and also how did having a child change. What it's been like caretaking for your mother yeah, there are definitely parallels there, so I think the immediate parallels just like the amount of care that is needed and the amount of attention I need. help. My mom to brush your teeth. I need to help my mom was eating, have helped the baby eating his were evenly. showering. I helped my mom to take a shower. Then I helped the baby to bathe and like just that experienced of water, especially in like britain them there's a certain sort of like allegorical aspect to water, like water being like about rebirth, it's rebirth, but then also water, like it's like in baptism like that consecration of like going into the water,
like one dies to themself. So I just think of like the process of my mom she's bathing, and my mom is also in the process of dying. So it's this so many parallels where I get so much insight into life and it's like the joy and sorrow both affixed together like dancing together, but they also give me so much insight into how I can care better for both people. Can you describe what a day in your life is like, like walk me through? Who takes care of who? How do things get done it sounds like gonna do today, like the areas that make the bees are daily living her, like the basic things that I know that I need to get done again regards to care. So that's like in the morning. It could be no waking up my mom taking her to the bathroom, helping her to change her clothes, helping her to brush cleaning her and I mean I would even include like listening to me doesn't an idiot well because we have a playlist that we with thank been carrying.
I had some time, but whenever my mom used to like hum any any song like earlier in her progression, I would like try to find it. So I can like have that. I was Ok, you well, might not know the sun we're on what are some of her favorite songs, we listened to a lot of nigerian praise and waste music were nigerian my mama's boy nigeria and she has already was he's a dude you artists, until nigeria's they miss king sunny day. So we have a lot of his classic son. I play and when her favorite song is alright. Ok by gmos, it's so fair that every morning, that's sort of like a yeah. That's a good upbeat. What that is, that's a really good was in terms of like just like the load of alzheimer's. I get so taxing at her brain sundays and then she just wake up and she's like super exhausted and it's hard for it opened her eyes, but there I play that song like.
Even if she's like not able to move or do much like she'll be tapping and she'll, just not her head to the phone. So that's always something I always thought of like incorporate as a ritual. In the day, So you are nigerian and I'm curious how culture, informed care giving and how care giving is different across culture. Do you see culture shit being your caregiving, and you know how you do this. I think nigerian culture is very much so historically and even contemporary leave women do a lot of the care giving a lot of the caring for sick parents a lot of the caring for elders. I mean that's the case in the
estate as well. It's primarily black and brown women that are sort of like holding up the care infrastructure. We kind of live in a culture I feel like maybe self sacrifice. is it sought after and- and I think I can kind of have a negative connotation, but I think sacrificial love kind of like when DR king was about, unlike the drum major instinct, where there's a certain sort of calling humility and likely acted like dispensing yourself for the benefit of the edification of the other, and I think I saw them and, like all my mom cared for us is children in a one hundred percent informed the way that I care now and the fact that I desire to care and to steward. I think she put that instinct in my heart and a lot of ways. My faith has as well, but like that cultural instinctive like to see a need- and you just go to that- need and newton.
especially when it has something to do with someone who is vulnerable and needs the assistance. What advice would you give someone who's listening to this and is at the beginning of their own caregiving journey? Honestly, I would say yeah. Sometimes I have to just like take a deeper and it really helps to just like sort of just like love. We are so cause it. It is. I mean, while I try to keep my composure. It is still a very like sorrowful experience. There's a lot of sadness in it to be said about the forefront of. seeing some of you have so much experiencing some of the deepest suffering of their life and not be able to like ameliorate that in any way, I think you can do like that most ordinary, the most basic them all state continuous route actions.
with a lot of love? And you do those actions with so much love and care, and attention and dignity, it's so transformative for the person you're caring, for they might not be able to articulate it to you, but it's happening and and also. I would say especially for caregivers, that are like new and the sort of space to definitely do things like power of attorney things that really end up becoming more difficult. When the. Not your caring for is able to sign off on stuff things that are did you do later are the things that are easier to do like initially trying to get like a care directive guy, like how does your level and want to be taken care of, and I would also say, try to speak to us.
local area of aging if you have one because, like they usually have so many amazing resources and also to look for community, because you will be able to find it especially on facebook, there are so many different caregiver support groups and they've been super life. Giving for me, there really is something profound about being able to step into other people's journeys as well. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us and coming on the weeds course. This was such a joint beyond their. I will. If we be lifting you and your family of you all have made my prayer less useful, much shocked when there is a lot to me, John story is just one example of the care gaps facing millions of americans up next. How we got here and what we can do about it.
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its or at now in use old bites or ten for ten percent off your first put me the one app over three hundred thousand travel experiences. You'll remember do more with vines or it's the weeds, I'm John one, my colleague anna north, covers american family life here evokes in some of our most recent reporting and explores the elder care crisis, and why this moment feel so different We are looking at a time when the baby boom generation is aging indeed. there's one statistically more people need some form of care, some form of support whether it be with metal will care or whether it be with basic tasks like bathing or eating the baby boom generation is a huge generation riots. That's a really huge chunk of people in american life. We're going to need this kind of support and, at the same time, number of people who
around to give that support is not the same as it once was, because baby boomers didn't have as many children as yes, general generations and their also more likely to be divorced than previous generation. So it's more common, that someone wouldn't necessarily have a spouse to support them. So I'd statistic I keep returning to is that in two thousand and ten there were more than seven potential family caregivers for every person over eighty by two thousand and thirty, the ratio was supposed to fall to four to one and by twenty fifty it'll be less than three to one so the way to think about that as it used to be that there could be seven people to come together to take care of each person and that number is going down and down and down so that has impacts for the people who need care and has, in fact, for the people who are giving that care too. So I think John story who we talk to earlier, is really striking. He is in his twenties and he's caring for baby, he has a sick mother, and he has another I'll on the way he's juggling
a lot and when we spoke with him, he mentioned use part of the sandwich generation. Can you walk us through what that term means yes, so the second generation as a term that refers to people who are cut sandwiched between caring for sure grandma young kids and then also caring for current or an odour relative, so they're kind of doing here, giving on both ends of the demographic spectrum and its becoming we're common, as people have children later in life. So, right now about twenty five percent of american adults and more than half of people in their forties are what's called the sandwich generation. We already talked a little bit about the strain on these people in the sandwich generation, just the amount of people that are Available to care for each person whose growing older is lessening, but I'm also curious in what the outlook looks like for the caregivers. It seems like a failure
Does take on that role, there's a really heavy burden on them. Is that a correct to some and what are some of the numbers there? How do we know how this is impacting them in terms of number? Is one thing we can talk about? His just costs care is expensive. We know this from child care allowance. through with elder care and with other kinds of Emily characters. So just for cod the median annual cost of a full time home health aids. So someone to come to your home and hopped take care of someone that was almost six thousand dollars and twenty twenty one and then a semi I have a room in nursing home was about ninety four thousand dollars a year that year, so these are costs that a lot of families just can't pay. So if you can't afford someone come in and take care of your family member you're, often doing it yourself, and even if you are providing carry yourself as what people call a family caregiver, sometimes care partner. There still costs
because the person might have medical needs their devices. You know things like a shower chair medications. Co pays that cost around seven thousand dollars annually on average. So one small or large way to look at it s just to look at the expense? But then, obviously there are a lot of intangibles. The lot of the folks I spoke to a lot of the family. Caregivers spoke about just burn out p, talk about all the driving just driving a family member to and from appointments, but then also driving to their own job. If you are in that sense generation your adding in driving your kids to places, you know feeling the fee of being the person who is really responsible for your loved ones. Healthier looked when safety folks talked about the difficulty of carrying across households and then feeling lake There's not enough support out. There are not enough understanding. I think this is again where the cultural peace comes in. You know I'm on a lot of group chats for parents you know we're always trading jokes or trading, whatever wisdom
back and forth. I think those groups exist for elder care, but it's just not as visible, so people can feel that there really alone- and I think that goes especially true- people who are younger and their authorities or their twenties were a lot of their peers. Aren't dealing with this dad but like on top of all that, I do want to say- and I think John speaks to this really beautifully, that people find a lot of joy in caring for family members, including older family members. There can be the sense of giving back to someone who has given so much to you and that there are also just special movements that people Mina wouldn't trade, for things, so I dont want to make it sound like this. Is this thankless task, but it is work and its work? That is often unsupported. Are any of these recent. is covered by medicare. How does that factor, and all this so one of the hardest things? I think is that people often sort of assume Firstly, younger people- I might have assumed this too, that medicare will cover elder their current, really doesn't exactly there.
certain things, medicare covers bought for a lot of people are, does not provide long term care. Medicaid only really kicks in if people have a very, very low amount of money or assets, and so you get into regions where people were essentially have to spend everything they have assuming they had. Any savings are assets to start out with, and so that's now was a trade that is workable for people and their families. There are real, says available for families. At the same time, these large government programmes that we think of as being the safety not don't necessarily provide that safety, not for people who may need care for an extended period of time. So you ve talked about the difference in costs between nursing homes, at home care, giving. Why is there? You know such a big difference between the two and how did they compare? to each other like to imagine. Nursing homes are more like intensive. Is that what it is theirs there's so many things to think about when you think of like. What setting is someone age
in one thing to think about? Is that all of people, having seen what happened in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one, I think a lot of people have a preference for aging and place so being in their home as long as possible and having the services of a hum of aid can extend that period when you can do that, you know so few stunning help and you can have someone come visit, your than that can relieve. Allow you to kind of being your house and being your community for much longer. The flip side. number one, not everyone has a home one of those folks. I talk to you, for one of my stories made the point that the homeless population among seniors is really a growing, so there is a lot of folks out there who you know what is aging and place it would look like for them. The other question is Can your home be made safe as you're getting older? Do you have stairs? Is your bathroom saved for an older person, for some of them may be bono
but falls. These are all considerations. So nursing homes take away some of that calculus. Obviously it's a facility. You know it's designed to be safe on the other, Someone can potentially be taken outside of their community. They can potentially be taken out of proximity to families Those are all considerations in terms of the cost. I mean something I'll say about hum of aids, and we ve had really wonderful stories on vocs about this by other reporters is that these are workers who were incredibly underpaid again at similar to the childcare space, where this very difficult work, often physical work, you know lifting someone bathing them feeding them, and yet it's very very poorly paid on there are not a lot of legal protections, so even mention that sixty thousand dollar figure the salary right that may not be actually the home healthcare aide salary that might not be what they are taking home? So that's a consideration too and when folks think about sort of aging and elder care policy. They also think about the people who are caring for elderly people
as a career and as a job and you get to making things just for them, cause right now. It's really not just. I think that such a good point its expensive are the people who need the care and then the people giving the care making that much it's it's it's difficult, Israel, hard- and I think there is some sense too, that a rising tide could lift all boats here that we thought of home health care as something was deserving of making a living wage than would thus become more visible. know what people realize like. This is an important thing for our society, but I think all of that would kind of require really changing our pray It is an understanding that care is something that is important to our economy, unimportant living wall, and even though we ve made me baby steps in that direction, since twenty twenty it feels it there's a long way to go. Why don't we talk about elder care? The same
we talk about child care, and you know we don't necessarily do a great job with child care in this country. Access to it cost all of that, but it seems like if a conversation than elder care- and I wonder why that is is it. You know people are living longer for the first time like what's going on here, yeah, that's a really great question. I asked a lot of people as I was reporting out these pieces. Why we don't like to talk about aging and a lot of people said were afraid of talking about the future. A lot of people say that were unable. society ass, an apple wyatt, who is really passionate advocate on anti ages. I'm talked about a lot of ages. I'm and a lot of the sort of invisible rising of aging is really about able as them and about not wanting to look at people who are not able bodied not going to think about what we need to change and society to make sure.
people who aren't able bodied are having a just and pleasant and healthy life is. We can be more control to look at child care because we don't have to confront our own aging. You know childhood already happened. I think, there's also the sense that america is a young nation, and we like thinking about kids. But america is not really a young nation anymore. We are getting older, demographically, and so it's just going to be super important to focus on These issues are not shy away from them. We ve been talking about the costs of care. Does long term care insurance make a difference so long term care and jones is something that you can see like a little paragraph about in every story that you read about aging or elder care, and the reason is only a paragraph as that long term care and turns is typically really expensive and or copper very much so it ends up not being a supervisor, option for a lot of families. That said, their efforts at state level to kind of make it more affordable
or to subsidize it in certain ways, washington state is working on a state based long term care insurance program. That could be an interesting model. So, oh, it's possible that we might get some butter versions of this. Now like on the private market for a lot of people. It doesn't help that much. It doesn't help that much. Unfortunately, there's a theme emerging in this episode. After the break, we get to the policies that seek to change its support for the show comes from last year. At last, he and software, like jura, compliments and trillo help power, the collaboration for teams to accomplish what would otherwise be possible alone, because individually were great, but together were so much better. That's when millions of teams around the world, including seventy five percent of the fortune, five hundred. Lastly, in software, for everything from space exploring
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help you slay the holidays with the products, services, tools and timelines that will make your business bright, create more happy for the holidays. I always thought that stockholm, so let's discuss what policy is in place right now, because there is clearly a need for support, both with the costs and also the labour of care, giving I want to start with a few, Lay medical leave actor fm l a. What does this offer family members who are caring for left Yes, the f offers twelve weeks unpaid leave essentially with job protection so F m. L, a there's! A number of situations in which you can apply on one of them is: if you need to take care of an older family member, and basically it means you won't lose your job. If you want to take twelve weeks of leave- and you can take that concurrently or you can split it up- the limitations- that are you know often you need a lot.
In four weeks and also is not paid? There are states that provide for some paid leave for family care, so there are a few states that have worked at us and said we should. the content and that could be a growing movement, but at the federal of all, the eta malay only provides only guarantees unpaid time off. President Biden spilled back, better act aim at rebuilding the middle class through a lot of different efforts. Has that been helpful for caregivers at all yeah, so build back, better included a couple of provisions that would be helpful for elder care and for families that are trying to care for an agent relative. One is just that it improves paid leave. So placing some of that unpaid familiar time with paid time. You know when I talk to folks who are out had surround aging. Her advocates around elder care on these issues. Paid leave was really a top thing that they mention just band they take and in time off with pay would be huge that sad, some
times. The amount of time that you would need to be for the amount of time that you would need to have. Flexibility could be much longer than your typical paid leave. Policy goes, so that's a kind of an issue in a question mark to the other thing that build back better dead that I will mention here, as it included a provision for boosting pay for home health aides that was often discuss sort of in the same breath as child care policy and much the same as boosting the pay of the care workers. I think boosting the pay of home health aids number one. You know what helps this category of workers lead, but our lives, but I think also move towards legitimate, using this as a fundamental need that families have and that the country, should be willing to pay, for spend money on were that to come to pass. I think it would be a way of the countryside putting its money where its mouth is and sang like yeah. We care about this population. We care about the increasingly large percentage
people who are older and need some form of support, and we care about the people who provide that support and we're going to pay for it. That's the federal level, but what's going on at this level are their states that are offering coverage or assistance when it comes to caregiving costs. Yet there are a few states are doing different things you states are experimenting with programmes too. allow medicaid to cover care at home and in the community, so some of that includes actually paying family caregivers through medicaid new york, state this, where, if you are a caring for an order relative, you can actually receive some payments, its typically really small doesn't cover your cost of living necessarily, and these policies are the norm across all fifty states, but is something that's being tried out becoming more common than there is also this washed and states our long term
your insurance program, which might be something that more states would take up or would discuss. I think it's something that experts are kind of interested in. So there is action, but there's nothing like a revolution yet have we seen the impact of these policies yet? Or is it still too early to tell, I think it's a little too soon, especially for the wash they programme, because that mean a really hasn't been fully rolled out. Yet I do think we can say that there has been a little bit more just sort of cultural attention paid to this issue, so I think you know there's there's a sense of it being more in the conversation. So in that way, I think maybe we're seeing an impact. I think it might take a few years to see if people's lives are being materially improved by some of the financial policies listen. I'm wondering how culture fits into all of this. You know both american culture at large and how we view aging, but also individual leg. I know
for a lot of black families. It's like our aid, nursing home last for The word I'm supposed to have like mom at home with me, and there are lots of people from lots of different tourists who feel that way or who dull and I'm yeah wonder how that is factoring in to how this is shaping policy you know. I think, in my conversations with family caregivers, this came up a lot family, a family and also just started demographically around the country. Depending on what your community looks, like people have really different ideas about. What is the responsibility that the unity has the aging people. What is the response by the family has aging people? What is the role of an older person within the family? This is really not a homogeneous issue. I in so many ways. In the last few years, we seeing the ways that obsession with the nuclear family- that's like two parents to kids. You know picket fence in the suburbs. That's a very wide.
It's a very sort of middle class upper middle class ideal. The limitations of that have just become so clear, both the ways that it's not accessible to a lot of people and also the ways that even those people for whom it is accessible. It really fails them and I think the fact that American dream doesn't even include older people like where are they their invisible in that house? I think it's just one of the ways that it's sort of letting everybody down, and there are a lot of thinkers a variety of communities both in the united states and obviously around the world, who are showing a lot of other ways to continue to unfold older people, within families and within communities in a way that is more, loving and inclusive, and also recognizes that, like you, don't suddenly stop being a person when you turn sixty five or seventy five or eighty five or ninety five. So I want to dig two more about what communities are doing to fill in these gaps in your peace, human,
and one organization called sisters aging with grace and elegance tell us about them and what kind of support and resources they provide yeah. So the group cofounded by Carlini Davis and cure a harris, and I spoke lillian Davis and she just talked about the realisation that she didn't have children that there was a necessarily someone that was like the default. Who is going to take care of her She got older and she thought of of other women, especially black women, who may be in that position and that there was a necessarily something specifically for folks that were in her shoes. So she end up co funding this group, cistus aging with grace and elegant it's to really work on behalf of black women in their forties and beyond. She talked about wanting to create safe, culturally, specific and culturally affirming spaces for black women to come together to think about and plan for their aging journeys, and so that group does outrageous. Education, advocacy work and it was fascinating to talk with her
because policy take such a long time and you can, you can always depend on it, and so the idea of communities and neighbourhoods and family sort are coming together to figure something out, and that has is kind of what has had to happen in a lot of places. on the other group are mentioned in the same vein as called the villages movement not to be confused with. I think there is a retirement community called the villages. Oh yes and tories. They uptown they're. Here it's actually a network of different neighborhoods around the country, their most non profit and it's really neighbours kind of come together and support one another so rides to places like a really big thing. They provide a ride to the doctor, a ride to see relative. You know maybe The us hacking and on someone sort of formalizing, the idea of being a good neighbour, which is something that can be especially helpful for older people. Yeah
I think that's interesting, because you know at the beginning of this conversation we talked about how families just look different than they used to people having fewer children, if they're having children at all. You know people are getting me. later, if they're getting married at all and during your reporting did you discover any new shifts, and my Families, like is care, giving reshape being where and how we live, and you know how we think of this. Like I've been getting younger context, I have all these conversations with friends about. chosen family, we are a community we're doing this, but I'm wondering how aging factors into that. If, at all at this moment, yeah it's a really good question. I have a couple of thoughts on that. One is that curling divested share with me a report on older people in southern california, and a number of the folks spoken too in that report talk about erin or receiving care from people who aren't necessary.
Their biological family- so that's a reality- that's definitely out there. I think also something that turned up. Were you mention how people live and where they live? I do think that there is starting to be an increasing demand for multigenerational living. Obviously, that's an immense super common around the world that hasn t always been as common in the united states, but now We are seeing more. You know you think about like the rise of the excess, three dwelling unit in california in other places, and obviously like in order to have eddie you. You have to have a house that could have that unit in it. So there's a certain level of privilege there by just as I talked to but even around the country. I talked of folks who had thought about pooling resources with other family members, so they could buy a place. I talked to family, where they had done that so to adults, their children. They put money with her mother and they bought a house together with kind of space for everyone. Again, you have to have money to be
to do that, and there also has to be construction. That's amenable to that. So it has to be a house relic some part of the house. It is safe for some to grow older end, but I do think that more so, then, maybe a few years ago, there is this of wanting to have togetherness, and how can we sort of change the ways that we lived to be able to foster that, whether its with our own biological family, or, as you say, with more chosen family, so excited to sort of see how that plays out and if it ends up impacting pausing to the way we think about care, so obviously care giving is really expensive and its time consuming and it can be emotionally and physically exhausting for those that are providing that care and depending on the circumstances, it really can be a full time job in your reporting? What did you see people doing in order to prepare taking that give her role on one
One thing I heard from a lot of groups and individuals: that's just the need for like a more training opportunities for family caregivers at something on a lot of people are gonna thrust into my yeah. Ok, this is your mom. So you know how to allay care for someone you love by it. It could be complicated medical stuff that you're suddenly expected to do on your own. There are resources fail a ball one. Recent development is that there is a proposal for medicare to start covering more training for family caregivers and that something you can kind of gatt from a medical. National as my understanding that you'd requests like okay well, I'm gonna be caring for this person in their home. I need you to train me on. do x. Y see- and that could be something that would be reimbursed by medicare- then also, a lot of resources on mine. The national lines for caregiving offers some resources there. More more local groups that might have classes is the kind of where, if you search for this an advocate for it, you can find it. But it's also the kind of thing that everybody who is an expert in the space
it's like just needs to be more widespread. We need to acknowledge that this isn't something that people just know how to do by instincts. It's like another big, parallel with childcare, as the idea that, like this is not skilled, and it's just You do out of love, and it's like you might. This might be a loved one that you're caring for, but this is skilled, labor and people do need help navigating through it. The other thing I'll say is that caregivers talked to me about the importance of caring for their own mental health and in particular, one person. I spoke with mentioned that when she found a therapist who actually had also worked in like a hospice setting That was really beneficial for her, so I think, to the extent that people have the means and health insurance and all the things you need, and mercosur access therapy that can be really crucial and I think training for a therapist around these issues is also really key. Anna north. Thank you so much for joining us on the weeds thanks so much for having me
That's all for us today. Thank you to china, dinner in and anna north. For joining me, this episode was produced by Kalen beaucoup. He himself hullo odd krishna engineered this episode with help from nick walsh. Serena's solon fact checked it for us, our editorial director is am hall and I'm your host Jon flint hill. This podcast is part of VOX which doesn't have a paywall help us keep it that way by going to vox dot com, slash gif,.
Transcript generated on 2023-12-11.