« The Tony Robbins Podcast

Timing is everything | Daniel Pink on the best time for meetings, taking breaks and creative breakthroughs

2019-02-19 | 🔗

When you set a goal, what do you focus on? Odds are, you put most of your energy towards how you will achieve the results you’re after. But what if you shifted that focus from the how to the when. What if timing was that important? What if good timing could not only enhance your performance - it could actually give you the edge that you need to achieve your goal?

Welcome back to the Peak Performer season of the Tony Robbins Podcast. Today, we have a very special guest - New York Times bestselling author and one of the most influential business minds of our time, Daniel Pink.

Dan is widely regarded as one of the foremost thinkers in behavioral sciences. He’s upended conventional wisdom about what gives people drive and motivation. He’s challenged the value that society places on left brain over right brain skills. And he’s dispelled preconceived notions about what really makes a great salesman.

His latest work is no exception. In When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing - Dan offers profound insight into the importance of timing - and why most businesses, and most employees, really get it wrong.

Dan and I sit down and discuss the science behind timing - how it impacts your cognitive abilities, your mood, your state. And he reveals the secrets of how good timing can help you become the most efficient, effective version of yourself. And how business owners can leverage the time of day to create an optimal working environment for their employees.

Consider this episode a wake-up call. So that you can not only gain more clarity on why it’s not just about what you are doing, it’s really about when you are doing it that can make all the difference - letting you become the best version of yourself at work and at home.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
If you're listening to this party cast, it needs a ready, no more than ready to have a major breakthrough in your business, your hungry for change and your hungry for growth, and that's why you're feeding her mind right now with all this valuable information, but a driver. Those changes to be really smart about what you're doing and to make the right choices before you take massive action. You need help from someone who's been there. Somebody
in a coach you through it. Even just someone to get you started on your journey. That's why twenty robins is offering free one to one business strategy session from one of his top business coaches, six hundred dollar value completely free, no strings attached! That's right! If your listening right now, you can go to Tony Robin Stockholm, Slash CEO and sign up for a free session with a member of Tony's team whose help business owners like yourself, overcome their obstacles and set them on the path to success. When you said a goal which you focus on odds, are you but most of your energy towards how you will achieve the results your after? But what, if you shift that focus from the? How to the when would have timing was that important when, if good timing could not only enhance her performance, it could actually give you the edge that you need to achieve your goal. He guys welcome back to the Pieper format season.
The tone Europeans pot cast. I'm anywhere get a trail director of our eye. Today we have a very special guessed: the New York Times bestselling author and one of the most influential business minds of our time. Daniel Pink Dan is widely regarded as one of the foremost thinkers and behavioral science is he's up, ended conventional wisdom about what gives people drive and motivation I challenge the value that society places on left, brain overwrite, brain skills and he's dispelled preconceived notions about what really makes a great salesman. His latest work is no exception in when the scientific secrets of perfect timing den offers profound insight into the importance of timing and why most businesses and most em Please really get it wrong den and I sit down and discuss the science behind timing, how it impacts your cognitive abilities, your mood, even your entire, date, and he reveals the secrets of how good timing can help. You become the most efficient, most effective version of yourself with.
But how business owners can leverage the time of day to create an optimal working environment for their employees? Consider this episode a wake up, call so that you can not only gain more clarity on why it's not just about what you are doing, it's really about when you are doing it that can make all the difference, letting you become the best version of yourself at work at home, down, welcome to the term inspired cast for so please to have you I'm going to be so I want to start off with you know that something that Tony says at his business event. He taught us a lot about the tyranny of how and he uses This is an example of you heard it. He is. Is it as an example of how we forget to focus on our? Why our purpose re people they skip the strategy and they just get right to the tactics was interesting. Is that no one ever seems to think about the when, but you did right so when's the re timing for.
Thing not just looking for new jobs- are making some other sort of change, but what is the best time to do certain types of tasks? So, for my end, getting. It seems that you were looking for. Some of you know some answers to that question. Find any so you decided to find them yourself. Can you tell us a limit more about your ex? flirtation into timing, sure you've got you ve got it exactly right. That is, we make all kinds of these to sit. We make all kinds of when decisions in our life. Everything from when should I start a business. When should I stop a project is not working when in the day should exercise? When should I do innovation? I do this when should I do that kind of work, and I like many people with making them in a very ill informed way- and I said, there's got to be a better way to make these decisions, and I looked around for guidance. It didn't exist and then I looked around at the science and it turns out. There is a huge amount of science on the question of timing problem is that it's spread all over the place. So you have a condom is looking at this. You have social psychologists looking at this
have microbiology. Looking at this, you have the entire field called biology you. Physicians, you have anesthesiologist endocrinologists- are all asking very similar questions, but not talking to each other. So what I did is look at the breadth of this research to try to crack the code to figure out. What is a science? Tell us not our intuition, not our guesswork, not folklore about when we should do things, and it was for me, just personally was a huge, huge eye, opener so. Can you describe some of the things with you? You really start out strong. Just talking about people a single day right, so we had there's Patterson. I would. I can explain a little bit about peak trough and reasoned recovery. Absolutely so here's what here
here's what we know from from the science that we tend to move to the day in three stages- peak, as you say, a trough and a recovery, most people about eighty percent of us move through the day in that order peak early in the day trough in the early to mid afternoon, and then the recovery late afternoon and early evening now about twenty percent of people who are night ass. We can talk more about that later there much more complicated, but for them the key is that their peak is later in the day. Now, here's what we know is the most important take away, at least for me, the most important insight, at least for me in this research, was this our brain power. Our cognitive abilities do not remain static over the course of the day they change they change and predictable way.
They can change in dramatic ways. So, what's important is doing the right kind of work during each of these stages and what the research tells us very clearly as this during the peak which from Most of us is early in the day in the mornings, essentially, That's when we are most vigilant, vigilance, Means were able to bat away distractions. That means it during the peat. We should be doing what social psychologists call analytic work work that requires heads down, focus attention. Writing report, analyzing data carefully, going over the steps of a strategy during the trough. It's the middle of the day. That is a very bad time of day. We can talk about some of the evidence showing what a terrible time of day this is in health care in corporate profits
comments in traffic accidents, but during this low period of the day we should be doing our administrative work, work that doesn't require massive brain power, creativity and then during. Recovery which again for most of us is late in the day and early in the afternoon, just so happens a time that that you and I are speaking that's when it's very interesting to
Our mood is pretty good, but our vigilance is not, and that makes it a good time for things like brainstorming for four things involving adoration and creativity. What social psychologists call insight problems and if we do the right work at the right time, analytic work during the peak administrative work during the trough insight work during their covering it makes him eat a material difference in our performance so much so. This is a fact that is blooming away about twenty percent of the variants. Again. What about bit in how people perform on the job? That is, if we look at some people perform better than others. Why is that all kinds of reasons? Some people are smarter than other some people more conscientious and other. Some people have more social advance of others. When we look at the variants and how people perform
We can explain twenty percent of it through time of day, so that doesn't mean that the timing is everything, but it means a big thing. It doesn't mean that its you no more important than wire the how the Tony's talkin about, but it means that it's just as important to mention that the traffickers midday just after MID day will this exemption but everybody. Where does the lunch fitted her? I guess there's there's so much talk about you know, especially among the Bio hacking, community and people who are trying to make a correlation between the performance in their job and be food they put in their body. So there's a big talk him. You know intermittent fasting and breaking your,
in the middle of the day and having light smaller meals, and you knew we, we put so much emphasis on that and we dont think that it could just be the time of day. But I know you in your book. You do talk about the importance of a lunch breaks, it's not just but where you're putting their body physically, but also how you are feeding or not feeding her mind. So he took a little bit about where it is. Lunch sit ensue the time of day yards grid. It's great point in to say that, on the eating aspect of this, I don't find the research the science well settled. I think there's a lot of contradiction. Their entire that more later and there's some interesting research, emerging research on timing and eating, but when it comes to lunch in particular, are basically here, as I look at it. If you look at the actual research
lunch and breakfast let's say we always a breakfast is the most important the other day. I think that breakfast, if you look at the research, I don't think we can say that I don't know we say breakfast doesn't matter. I think we can say a definitive. I dont know kind of sort of maybe breakfas helps, but I'm not sure for everybody. I dont know. I hide it's really it's very very murky. So if it were a stock, I would short your breath. Stocks lunch. I think it's a short shrift, because the way we think we can think about lunch is think about lunch as a subset of a broader category of bricks, and what research shows on breaks in particular is powerful. It shows very clearly. We should be taking more eggs and we should be taking certain kinds of bricks, so a lunch break. Ok, I'll. It's actually a break. Can it can improve performance because it large part, because it is a break now and
farmers of the actual food there, your opening up a thicket, where I think that, again the researchers knocking loser in general, protein it is better than carbohydrates at that time of day, especially for wakefulness infer hunger abatement. But you know, I think it's worth taking a lunch just because, We know in general that breaks we tend to think especially hard chargers, think that breaks or a deviation from performance that breaks or a concession that breaks our sign of weakness, and that is not what the research shows. What the research shows is that breaks are horde of our performance, that breaks and enhance our performance. This is one area that I got completely wrong. I was mister, don't take a break power through guy from within this research. Similarly, I had it
Hopefully one hundred percent wrong. My view was that amateurs take breaks, professionals, dough, and that is wrong. Amateurs, other ones you don't take breaks professionals take breaks in one of those breaks is lunch so a lot of people too, Thirty breaks, not just with lunch or taking walk outside or having a social break by and I know this is little bit of a bad word for some people, but Nap the threat of war rights. Are we associate naps also with weakness? I was taking it out, we think of it. Isn't there a little? Kids are older people right so well, but you do have a sexual but really talk about that, not just a power now, but the power of nets he's had a little bit about that. Yeah I mean this, you know he was a thing I like again. This is the sixth book that I've written in this one probably changed my mind to change the way. I do things more than any other
So I was out again, I was anti nap for exactly the reasons you say it's for wimps, it's for little kids, it's sign of weakness when I would take naps, which was rarely I wake, feeling like garbage. We all know that feeling yeah for a bit, but, but you know with the reason we have the feeling. Is it we're doing it wrought right? So here's with here's, the researchers naps are vit. The researcher A heck of a lot of research on maps are some very interesting research unnapped, some of it is with say, pilots or people in the military or people off responders are people in these incredibly demanding jobs, but for civilians like us, there's also, I'd of research on what the researchers is at naps, a pretty good for us naps are a no further hockey fans in the audience. Naps are like the columns embodies for our brain writers. Isn't so during the during you know the day
all of these Nixon scarfs on our mental eyes, a napkin come along and smooth it, but many people, including you and me, had been doing it wrong. What turns out is at the very best. Naps are incredibly short shorter than I would have imagined between ten and twenty minutes long when it when you not for beyond about twenty minutes. You begin to develop, what's called sleep inertia and that's that Groton groggy boggy feeling that we're talking about, and so you have, this sleep inertia. It's like a deficit of the crawl out of that deficit in order to get the benefits of it. So a nap ten and twenty minutes is re is, is really ideal. There is a new this amount of research showing that a ten to twenty minute nap is very effective. It is more effective than being sleepy trying to power through.
Oh spacing out going as social media and not being alert and focused on your job ammunition, reticent. They call the NAFTA, China, He is coffee in order to make this is no longer. What is that This is the nuclear option. You know this is the he soap. So basically, what you do is is this is I mean literally like I did one of these this afternoon? I dont do it every afternoon, but this afternoon I actually did that. So here's what I didn't I made a cup of coffee, and I then plant some ice gives in it, because I wasn't trying to enjoy the coffee or just just goes on a cup of coffee river. Then I set my phone alarm for twenty five. It. I put on my noise cancelling headphones and then I actually lie down on the couch and
I can usually now fall asleep in probably seven or eight minutes today. I think a profile sleeping like six minutes amuse us pretty tired serve so elicited. I fell asleep it incidents in six minutes rights to fall. Asleep in six minutes I actually have, as I said, my noise cancelling headphones on and then my alarm goes off in twenty five minutes. If I fell asleep in six minutes, I slept twenty five, the user in nineteen minute nap. Ok, that's good time on I'm pushing up against the maximum, but I'm within that range, but here's the thing it takes about twenty five minutes for coffee four caffeine to get into our bloodstream. So at the moment that I'm waking up, I get hit with that extra boost of caffeine, which actually aids in the alertness, and so this is really the. This is indeed the scientifically ideal now so that we have this visual of you with your headphones on lying on a cow,
and taking your now. I can tell you right now that ninety percent of people listening to US well to do that in their office evil, within that they were crazy. Our role so it may be difficult for people who don't have some flexibility or who univee work from home or whatever it is. Have you seen some companies implementing like napping paw? odds are just sort of area. Don't do this. Clearly there are there are there are several companies that have napping pods? I mean, though the usual suspects. The zap Google's are the world over and I'm actually not sure how widely used they are, but they, but but they exist, there are actually for profit enterprises out there in San Francisco your city here you can go in and actually pay to taken the opposite extreme, but but yet, but you make a really really good point like, like. You know that a lot of people don't have full
roll over their day and so for them, you are doing the right work at the right time or taking a break? They have to work the margins of it. So, like I think that you know I'm not. Say everybody listening on this should be should nap every day. I don't believe that not sure the entrepreneurs in the audience should establish now paths in their own operations. What I, what I would suggest as a beginning is to start treating breaks seriously. We have a special in the United States. The matter where our ancestors were from somehow in the United States. All of us have absorb this very puritanical. View of, were rare, it's about denial and about powering through and that, if you suffer and power through. That's how you gonna get more work done, and that's also, morally virtuous and the research doesn't say that the research in so many rounds of performance, whether it is where
its violinists, whether it is athletes, whether it it's physicians, whatever the realm of formats, that breaks improve our performance. That breaks are part of, formats and so for me for the entrepreneurs there. I think what you can do is you can model that for your employees and. Fear and employee. Listening to this, you know, you know, steal away some kind of a break. You don T go crazy here because we know a lot more about what kinds of breaks or most restorative. We know, for instance, that moving is better than being. Stationary I think a lot of people have his orb. That message. We know that outside is better than inside there, some incredible research on the restored of effects. Nature. We know enough on this quite interesting as someone who is more introverted than extroverted is social, is better than solo that breaks with other people or more stored it than breaks on our own, and the other thing that I think
really urgent. Now in a world where we're carrying many computers around you in a pocket is a mini computer connected to everyone else on the planet. Is that fully detach brakes are better than semi detached brakes? So you're better off during your break, not talking about work, certainly not sticking your nose in your instagram feed, and so, if you're in the video out there you know and hay not gonna be able to take a nap at work out? What I would suggest is, like each afternoon schedule a fifteen minute walk outside with one of your colleagues, you like leaving your phone behind talking about something other than work. That's a small step in actual make a huge, huge difference, and now, as a business owner or as a manager of a team, how can you not just encourage breaks, but how can you also accommodate for
this that you know peak trough and recovery. How do you maybe changed the way that you run meetings or how do you communicate your employees that, in order to be the most efficient versions of themselves, they really need to take this into consideration? What advice would you give
but that's great love. I love the way you actually even frame that question what how can people become the most efficient versions of themselves? That's exam at. I wish. I had said that I dont say then in a book I'm gonna say it now, but because it's exactly the way to think about it did there isn't a single remedy, a single method for each person. What we know is it in broad groupings. We have people, you know the people who are who are mourning people, people who get up early and go to sleep. Early people were an intermediate. They tend to go. Petrov recovery people who are night ass- they have their peak much later in the day, but even within those categories, people have to observe their own behaviour and bosses need that will give them the freedom to say well cave in what is the best time for you to start your work? What is the best time for you to take a break? Let people observe their own behaviors in May,
this kinds of decisions now the on the subject of meetings. You are so so so so right- and this is, if there's one mild crusade, that I have right now in my life. It is exactly this, which is that when we scheduled meetings in organizations and organizations have a huge number of meetings, I mean it's incredible. How much time do people spend in meetings? But when we schedule meetings we use only one criterion when we schedule that has meetings in that criterion is availability, availability we don't say hey what kind of work is this. Is this work where people need to be vigilant and heads down and analytical? Is this purely administrative or are we talking about? Are you know, are our travel about your policy? is this: a meeting where we need people to be brainstorming and innovative and creative. Are we not say
who's gonna be at this meeting people who are larks morning. People people were owls evening, people, people who are in the middle. We don't answer think about any of those questions. Instead, we say, you know, is Fred Available and Susan Available and is conference room, six elevate level com, and so, if people start manager start being intentional about when they schedule meetings that can make it Huge difference- and I hear this anecdote us on moving from the science- did to do an anecdote here, but over the last few months I've heard from so many individuals saying things like man, you know it's like yeah, I am back are doing my heads down work in the morning. You know: I'm a copywriter, I'm an analysts, you know, and if I have dislike
through our of uninterrupted time to do that kind of work? I can get a lot done, but my boss makes me go to an eight thirty staff meeting. Then she makes me go to a nine fifteen meeting about this. Then I have to go to attend thirty meeting about that, and I don't get my heads down time because my boss has dragged me into meetings, and you know it's interesting. Take as if you're looking at brief points. You know that's an anecdotal thing by in your book. You mention the earnings, calls Ray and that's all that's approve yeah villa There were about that. That's just one,
I mean I don't have it even talked about yeah like like the at, like that, the evidence on like the differences in time of day, as is pretty amazing, but that's one of my favorite studies of the study done and why you and it uses a piece of software. That is basically a joint text analyzer. So you can throw text into this programme is called the Luke Ella W C linguistic inquiry word count and it can analyze a bunch of different things, but among the things it can analyzes does the words did the words in this text can be positive sentiment and negative sentiment or neutral sentiment. So it's a way to sort of assess the mood of attacks, and so these researchers it and why you looked at the earning the transcripts of earnings calls of. I think it was twenty
Now, I think, was like six thousand Nora twenty six thousand Sars, our twenty six thousand earnings false transcripts. Twenty six thousand! Ok, that's a lot of that torture to think about reading through those that's band. They put him into this programme in the as you know, does emotion of these calls, based on the analysis of the words that were used. Does it change over the course of a day, and they said my gosh it does this and what that means we because companies with bad news are offering doing their earnest. Also in time of day and companies with good. These are doing it at another time of day, and so they control for that and what doubt is that that's what wasn't it at all that afternoon call were more negative and irritable, then calls earlier than can cause in the morning to the point where it affected the stock price and so and so here you have only think about this. You you have, you know the seals and see if those of public companies or doing these earnings cause
They are extraordinarily well prepared, for these calls there's a whole apparatus inside of these companies to ready these executives. For these calls, and these executives have a huge amount of money on the line. You know like one misstated word or one. You know that, and be more orderly and millions of dollars here and yet so you have the quintessential rational actors. Ceo was CFO, who are well prepared, who are generally reasonably intelligent people, and yet these patterns of the day are so powerful that they leak and so it in so we again, I think, Things are so powerful about this research is how it ranges over so domain we see, there's an education there's some powerful research out of Denmark, show in all its powers that are Denmark showing kids.
EC standardized tests in the afternoon in general score as if they miss two weeks of school compared to kids, take standardize testing. Warning is research out of the l, a unified school district. Again, a lot of this research is using giant enormous data sets research out of the L unified school district. Looking at something like two million students, anonymize students in the Ella Unify School district, they found stew you take mass in the morning score, but learn more mass have higher grades do better on state. Why standardized tests than kids you take math in the afternoon? If you look at health care, you are four times more likely: to experience an error by an ass, these Ya'Ll, just in a procedure that begins at three p m rather than one at that begins at nine a m. We look at doctors performing colon, ask appease: they find half of them, and after noon exams, as I do from morning exams for the same population, and so
over and over again, we see the suggested this one area of time of day that it has a material effect on how people perform and so We stop ignoring that and start being deliberate and an intentional about making decisions. When we do thanks, I mean we're literally gonna save lives in in the health care realm and worried up form. Better kids are gonna, learn more companies are to better. Individuals like us are gonna, get more work done if we just take this question of when a little more seriously and it's not fatalistic either I mean you down in the case of the hospitals, those errors there arrived at in the afternoon, but there are ways that hospitals are making up for it and whether its through their checklists right, the vigilance and having an old allies on on you know a single, a single patient. There are definitely ways to to alleviate the risk
it's absolutely and a lot of it goes to a lot of it goes to breaks. So do you have hospitals, in this book. When that I wrote you know I wanted I you know, I went to the University of Michigan Hospital to spend some time actually in surgical theatres, to see what a nurses and and physicians and other medical personnel were doing, and some of it is breaks. They take a break. They take a vigilance break before surgery to go through everything using a checklist, as he says, there's a with some very interesting research from Kitty milkman at a pen. And brought stats at the Inverted North Carolina taught looking at how handwashing and hospitals deteriorates never get in the afternoon, which is dangerous for hospital, acquired infections and all other kinds of beds. Tough, but a way to make that problem not go.
Way. But in a way to reduce the problem is to give especially nurses more breaks in the afternoon Anti give them social breaks breaks where they go off and in Paris or threes and so there aren't there. It is exactly right, we're not fatalistic about this thing. It's not time of day doesn't determine how things are going to turn out, but we are biological creatures. We are temporal creatures. And these that the patterns of the day that I earn patterns of the world we live in and our own bodies have an effect on how we perform If we are aware of that and make better decisions about it, we're gonna do better. Now this is the average try. This is the average pattern for, for most people think you said, sixty percent can you, unless you know this idea of being a morning person or a night owl, I'm not gonna live for a long time. I thought it was fictional. Have you were making of reasons why they just needed we're coyly morning, but
it's a mortal real thing. So what is krona biology? And then how can you calculate your own group so you're? It is absolutely real thing it s exactly. As you say, it comes from the spirit of chronic biology, so Crato Carano, meaning time biology, meaning study of life, and so there is an entire field of science that looks at our biological rhythms, pretty our time based biological rhythms and one of the key areas, and in fact the there are three Our can scientists who won the Nobel Prize in medicine, not this year, but the previous year. They were all krona, biologists and one of the things that could While it is have done is said, you know, there's more people even people, think it's not fiction. There's there's a biological truth to itself. Here's what we know about fifteen percent of us are very strong morning. People
Is we naturally wake up early and go to sleep early about? Twenty percent of us are very strong evening. People go to sleep late, wake up late to fifteen percent of us, our larks, twenty percent of us are out and about two thirds of us are in the middle. What I call third birds- and so there are there, are ways figure out for yourself, there are two very good scientifically validated instruments that is questionnaires. Assessments are one of them is key, all the Munich, the Munich chronic type questionnaire. The M c teach you that's a fancy. Yes, a little, it is pretty good, another one is called the morning evening, this questionnaire, so you can take that this. Oh back of the envelope away to figure it out? I mean I could do with you if you want it for eleven right now,
our here we go about it and I'm glad at Euro sceptic on this on the stew, because I was too and particularly because I always thought I would you know. I always wanted to be one of those like bad asses. You wake up at four o clock in the morning and you know, run eight miles and then read three newspapers in two different languages and then met Take for half an hour then get out of the office at six Third Dan AEGIS described tiny robins forthwith. Well, I mean cuz he could be, but he he could have the advantage in that he could be a serious morning. Person you can have an edge well he's a letter was sent. Hazel anybody's ever been to an event knows, is he's a night, an eight percent, but
We will see us, but I'll take the man he doesn't Ebby. Maybe he doesn't need any sleep Mps, one of the very rats addle. Yet there is, is a very small, most civilians, most normal mortal people and he may not be mortal need. Need you. No seven or eight hours is leave every night, but areas is in chronic. Biologists have actually looked at this there's a tiny portion, its tiny one percent, maybe two per cent of people who get by on significantly less sleep. It is very, very, very out of the ordinary yeah, but it does exist so, but let's go back to the US, a mere mortals like you and me, so I want to use our here's a back of the Imo Envelope way to figure this out. So there's something krona. Biologists call a Ray Day a free day is a day when you don't have to wake up to an alarm,
when you you can wake up when you bought it tells you too, you can go to sleep in your body. Tells it yours. I want you to think about one of those free days account and on that one of those days and you're not trying to catch up on sleep you're, not massively sleep, deprived, Frank, are you saying hey? I can wake up what I want and go to sleep when I want so on a day like that. When would you typically go to sleep? What time quick question is it? Is it a fact that if your body is used to getting up at a certain time, though, that its difficult for you to quote sleep, then I mean, like I have too little kids right. So for me,
It is not really a possibility, even if they're, not here, I area that rights are now almost like minorities. Why are you gonna? Do get yeah, that's a very, very good point, and you know, and in what what I want to do is imagine that you you're on vacation and you're, not massively sleep deprived and as a father. Three. I fully understand where you're coming from big time. Here the but some one else is gonna, be able to deal with your given the morning, yet ok at this age to cause that's an important thing as well, because if you ask me a question, I am twenty five years old, I meaning of your far different answer.
Totally out to get back to that. You get absolutely right about that and so on and so on. A typical so on a typical day. So was I want another typical ever not a free, they get in your kids are covered. When would you to really go to sleep, sleep now tat between ten and eleven? Ok, so it is. We can just as they say, ten thirty tintaggon. Yet in one would you typically wake up. The same: seventy seven, thirty, eight, some third great so, let's say that's a moderately by just calculated, find much less. Let's do, let's see you go to sleep at eleven wake up at seven years ago I was asleep perfect leverage, you gotta eleven and wake up at seven, so Albert what we're trying to calculus. Here. Is your mid point of sleep, your mid point of sleep, so That would make your mid point of sleep three. I am right! So here's what that here the distribution generally plays out You, if you're midpoint asleep, is before three.
You're, probably a lark if it's between three hundred and thirty and five hundred and thirty you're, probably a third bird, and if it's after five hundred and thirty, probably so you would come out as not a shoe. The extreme locked but bring pretty much alike, does not seem consistent with the ever yet that's right yet, but your airport so and so, and so. Is the back of the honourable up way too at the back of the above all the way to do it? see where you are, and so do I, but you are you the kind of person who will get up at four o clock in the morning and start doing stuff, yeah, ok, greatly excited because it jack you wouldn't tests that way. You would you would you you would be a man who would be more morning than late you're, someone who doesn't want to pull in all night or you're, someone who probably doesn't want to be working at eleven o clock at night, Frank, but but yet so it's a u test as a large, but not a super super extreme crazy, lark and so, and so knowing ourselves into our krona type, is the beginning to figure up on a given day. How to do
The right work at the right time. Now you also make a very good point about age ends. Is super important. Our contact changes over time, So what we know, as you know, as you live little kids very lucky up early start running around like crazy people pretty early in the day around the mid teams, there is aimed in most people there is a pretty strong move towards lateness. People become much earlier in their teenage years, all the way through their mid twenties, which is crazy, then high school start so early. I mean, I think, back to highlight what I mean is pretty a pay attention and class when I could. But I wouldn't you know that the napping on the desk. It's it's something
an epidemic walls. Yeah totally, I mean the idea that high school start when they do is Contra indicated by almost everything we know about teenage biology. In fact, the American Academy, Pediatrics has said, has implored schools around America. Do not start school for teenagers before eight thirty, and yet you know I've got its. I've got a sixteen year old. Who, who you know, walked school, is likely to walkest goes it doesn't take a huge bus whilst school leaves the house at seven forty. For I can. Eighty eight at eight o clock state a ten start at crazy. So during this, so we have this period of Alan S during the meetings of the mid twenties and then for most of There's a gradual time return to an innocent gender women. Actually, an women in general variation are a
women in general are a little larger than men. Women return to large Venus well, a bit faster than men, and yet, but there is still this large coloured people, twenty percent or so who are hard core owls no well into their, even even as they age of fifty sixty seventy eighty miles so talk about this. Hard core aloes, though, because you know I used to work or thought of programmers all out all of em right soda. Are there, sir, in types of jobs that owls are? Are you know they gravitate towards? Are ways that you, you know if you're a business owner- and you recognise that you have some hours on your staff, ways that you can support them to do their best work yeah. I mean the I think the key is to die. A huge amount of empathy for hours. After after doing this research, I'm not one I'm like, you know I'm in the middle but pretty lucky in the middle.
You know I do not like from each other. Writer. It like trying to rights, only ten o clock at night to me as torture, and but I have a huge amount of empathy for hours, because most workplace structures don't accommodate them and so, and so what you have is you have some amount of self selection going on. For instance, school teachers are disproportionately larks massively disproportionately large. That makes perfect sense for a year now and you gotta be in front of a class at seven fifteen you're not gonna, be tease, you ve, now faint, and so this himself selection in there this. If there is some self selection of ours, into self employment, because it more control over their schedules river, but but but but I actually think that the that the that organization should do a better job of accommodating AUS, because not all merrily Ninety percent of the talent for, but there's other
and showing that owls actually test higher on intelligence tests and on measures of creativity. So it's actually a pretty able talent pool and so for the entrepreneur he's out there. If you have owls, let them do their nocturnal thing. You have let you dont make that come into a seven thirty aim staff meeting. Just because that's when you always had it, you know you have to have you want to have some you want to accommodate people as much possible you want to I'm going to I'm going to use your lovely line from a formerly it like. You want people to be the most efficient versions of themselves and an owl is not going to be the most efficient version of herself. If she is a programmer- and you say you must be at your desk at eight hundred and fifteen- a dot m. Says about being flexible and accommodating, but you know recognising that there are that did their levels of productivity are only going to increase right right right and we should be
you know and then again in general. I think this is one reason: people choose entrepreneurship, also ensure had they been it they been incorporates, but they ve been corporate structures where it's like. The only thing anybody cared about was inputs, You show up. Are you there every time you know and what they say? but our results like I care about results, and so united most entrepreneurs understand like we want results. So if you have, somebody is getting good results hey there, working at eight o clock at night, but they're not at their desk at nine a m. That's all good! You know, Should we people on results, not whether their physically present now whether they are following a schedule that is good, for you. Not be for them now absolutely going? Well, then, this has been wonderful, when remind everybody. His book is called when the scientific secrets of perfect timing, and actually you
go to double w dot, Dan pink dot com to learn more about Daniel End, his full breadth of work, which is astounding and Dan? I just want to thank you for being on our show today. I think, there's probably Dozens of takeaway is that our audience is gonna, go back to their personal life. I've been out of business and implemented immediately. So thank you so much thanks for having there's been a boy you're. Absolutely the two neurons podcast is directed by twenty Robinson, hosted by twenty Robins and Mary bucket. Any org is the executive producer and steps in educational host, digital editing by Jean carve a home and Adrian Dilatory. Copyright, Robins research, International
Transcript generated on 2020-04-04.