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I'm constance and kissing, and this is a show for you. If you want honest conversations with fascinating paper, are burning guest The day is a former economic adviser to russian president vladimir Putin. Andrei let around of welcome to trigonometry will thank you for inviting me lou, such a pleasure to have you on the show. Many of our audience will be familiar with your background and who you are, but for those of them who are not, please tell everybody who are you? How are you where you are? What has been your journey through life? The lead you to be sitting here talking to us arousal life long so not have enough time to discuss all my life, but essentially I'm economies by training.

and I spent most of my time by being economist in writing economic stuff and it waiting on economic policy, and it happens that I spent some time about six years. It wisely and Mr Putin was economic advisor to the russian president. I will soon be in a russian sharp brought to g eight club of the most developed and then democratic countries, at least some of them, since you democratic one of them already, not any other sovereign. Five of serious series of serious conversations with my former boys, I resigned from

both of my positions as rational shepard and adviser have thought that in some time I left russia and now I'm living in the united states working for the sancho afford security deposit and also spend some time in ukraine working for the ukrainian institute for future thoughts. My story, fantastic, We are going to draw in your economic expertise in a moment, but one of the question I think a lot. Of course What normal people are asking at the moment is, that trying to establish how rational vladimir putin is. There is a sort of a mad lad- narrative, that's emerging in the west, among some people so before weak

into the economics, the sanctions, the war, the military situation. What is your assessment of president Putin's mental state? You see some of the speeches that is given that seem quite belligerent and so on. What what do you make of that conversation festival I don't buy that description that you have mentioned before, so he's pretty rational person. Probably he is the most rational person, but ever met my in my life, and he continues to be as so. He is very calculated, he's very determined and he's are are accurately balancing when he tried to portray humans self as a so called of your users were mad, but that is just for producing some impression on weak people, especially my completed all the western countries than western leaders are like to

he it and MR put you know that, and that is why he plays a game or play the shore with them. He britain to be met, and they pretend to be here. So that's exactly what, both sides would like to do so. just like one put in but then to be met and threatening the nuclear blackmail? So some people, like President Biden, prefers to believe him ores. european leaders of the inner which we cannot participate. We cannot participate in any here is a resistance to Mr Putin so that it will get let's be fearful and do nothing, that's exactly what many important ones. So that is why he's very, very rational, and calculated and speaking of rational, calculated, the obvious question and people are trying to answer for themselves in the last couple of weeks. You

we're talking since twenty fourteen about the fact that there would be a full scale. War. I've been talking is twenty fourteen on far less I have far less expertise than you, but it was quite obvious to me also war, fourchan is such a rational person explain to our western audience war? is the rationale for his invasion. Is it nato expansion? is it his own expansionist desires? Is that other things why done this, he's russian on, but he's russian, not in our sense, are not in the sense of civilised people who would like to live in peace and democracy with the rule of law he's a russian in the sands. of being imperialist, so he studied to talk about give as Keith. What reims ever used to say in russia from evil saw them one so already for twenty one years so ends

these more than two decades he has written so many tax. He has made so many statements, all of them the body to ukraine and to give them but he never hide it he's inventions to establish control over ukraine to catch a key and He statement about the ukraine does not right to be an independent state, though. That is why it's not too hard to predict that he would do something. Moreover, he studied to do something like these aggressive actions from the year two thousand and three, and that his light was yellow southern sri in of the street tuzla in the strait of garage in the year, two thousand and eight he proclaimed in conversation with george bush jr of the ukraine

it does not give right to exist in year, two thousand and fourteen he captured and occupied crimea and studied war in donbass and in the year two thousand twenty one. He published a long essay explaining that ukraine, should be put under his control, though it was rather hard not to see what he was doing and what he was saying. Aren't right I'll, never forgive myself! If I don't ask I should so I have to ask what was it like to work for vladimir appear in the uk we site? Would you go for a point with him is ready? foods. Somebody that you could imagine going to a bar drinking vodka with easy, easy, a sociable man does. He have another side to him, or is it what you see is what you get. I never did what you have mentioned right now. I never went to bar with Mr Putin. I was

an economic good, wives them- and I was invited to be an economic guidelines- have actually been invited sweet times, because twice I decline his invitation. I agreed only for the search I saw- and I was working as economic advise on my idea- was to bring economic growth to russia, so I was advising on economic policies. That would be good would be necessary to start in to continue very fast economic growth, and I succeeded in that the ten years that the policies that I recommend that were implemented were implemented best. He wrote in the russian economic history, russian gdp doubled russian gdp per capita.

A bold and private consumption per capita, grew two point three times within ten years. This is one again once again, its best economic growth spirit in the history of the country, so That is why, from the kind of the professional point of view- and it was very productive for me- it was very productive. Four hundred and forty five million russian citizens and the next question. I was gonna asking you ve kind of alluded to so that he was a competent leader that, let's forget about, not the warn you cry, but just when he came to power Do you think he was a competent leader, the way you think he ran the? on trade was effective, particularly when you compare it with former leaders. Certainly people like yeltsin union, I understand that I did not discuss with him how to attack ukraine

and how many times you know it wasn't that right. I I m economist, and just I took him on economic policies, an unstable economy. So- and I found him other person who is ready to listen and to learn something that he didn't know. He was really rather unique in this regard compared to other russian political leaders and after that, met. Many other leaders, including leaders from the west, and he was very, very unique in this regard because he tried to understand very complicated shoes and some of them he learned and some of them he started to implement in his actions in these policies and it is one of the explanations why that period than your spirit was such a good from there

the point of view of economic growth, so it do us he's contribution to this a result. No, no doubt. It's is interesting that it seems it at to a man. I'm sure you'll explain to me why I'm wrong, but there seems to be a contradiction away. You're saying, on the one hand he is the guy who learns shoes, smart, hoo, hoo devout. You know, you'd, listen you and other people around him to dinner, to deliver thing for the russian people and he's rational. Yet this time his imperialist ambitions. You might have taken him to warn ukraine, which hurt russia. Would you not say no, I Would he agree with use? Actually I came to the same conclusion about in the seventeen years ago. That is why I resign from a position of economic advisor,

but initially when I studied the work we do in the presidential administration, it was quite a shock for me because a before that, I thought that those people who would like to have economic prosperity for Our own citizens would not do imperialistic policies and they would not destroyed. My chronic constitutions, and would not destroy rule of law and, to my great surprise, because frenzy fukuyama did not explain to us in his embassies hurry he saw that everything should be in one direction and everyone who is supporting liberty or jim where she and the well being of people that just one direction ah and the old evils will be on the other side. But I was able to see with my own eyes that somebody could be, or just a person with.

I was working for some time at the same time is have having inventions to aim living standards of people who have been taken me, girls, but at the same time, he's really very serious in destroying liberal institutions, democratic institutions, institutions of law and after that, to start imperialistic wars At the same time, let me ask you andrea. If I may, I ask you about nato expansion and we win, we didn't quite address it. There are people like john my shy. My old lady met pausing or there are those who say the reason that this has happened is the west. Particular NATO pushed closer to the borders of russia, Let him up and let him a partner, for example, would say the putsch and wanted to work with the west. He wanted russia to join nato. He wanted all poor, for you know fluffy Mr Putin wants is for the nato not to have its missiles and true,

on its borders ukraine is the equivalent of mexico for the united states, an expanding! Otto into that areas is very threatening to russia and that's the reason all of this is happening. What do you say to them? You know it's very interesting and what the asking for an especial it, because these two presentation hence the shores of bulls? John me shine and regular? Posner became A viral due to poor This is of youtube because I saw both of those shows

some time ago, when the weather, just several tens of thousands of people watched it, but after the policy of youtube that recommended everywhere and to everybody, the number of people who were forced to watch those sure are rise up to twenty million, or something like that. So that is why it's a particular policy of our platform, our youtube platform to force people to which these two shows, which, from my point of view, are completely wrong. They crawl wrong in their assumptions they're wrong in their attitudes to be correct. I would say both of them, or at least John me from his definitely he belongs to the same class

of thinkers who prefer to see impious in this world, who does not give right of small nations ass small countries to be independent he's, synchronize, actually to very well, I would say, rather spread the rot, rather popular view, among some political think is that not every country it deserves to be independent, and there are some small countries. It should go around the circle. umbrella of superpowers of you- and I am sorry to interrupt, but isn't that true that I mean look at the cuban missile crisis. For example, did Cuba really have sovereignty where The soviet union tried to move its nuclear missiles on, to cuba, the united states, said to you. We don't care by a sovereignty. We care about. Our security is that

John locke genre would argue. That's what added my pigeons doing. Ok, but it was nineteen sixty two. It was sixty years ago, were living in europe and sovereignty to saw an after ample the It was the actual in meat of the cold war, and and I do one cold war was officially declared finished solely saw you in this in was a box he to exist. and though the possibility to actually that was claimed by many people, including by fanciful piano. We're mentioned, and many others, but ok, yes, during the cold war during the world war. That's a world war in many regions of the world it was hot war. The after the finnish, three world wars first, second and the cold war. It is possible for small nation saw medium sized nations to be really independent, become real suffering to become.

Nobody should threaten them. So that is what is something happened in the past. Ok, we keep buying many historical examples. before the first world war second world war menu, cuba will be not the only one, but we live in the twenty first century. And nobody should use the instruments of the nineteenth century or eighteenth century, or even the first half of twentieth century against neighbors against small countries. Why ukraine or any other country could not leave like luxembourg or It's a lump, luxembourg into smaller nations in ukraine. Nobody threaten luxembourg and switzerland from neighbours Why are you crying does not have the same right as luxembourg, so I'm just play. Devils advocate here because emotionally I agree with you very much. I do think that ukraine should have the right to do and choose any direction that it wants.

And I have found in ukraine, and I want them to have the same freedoms and the same quality of life that I do here in london. Of course but on the other hand, if you fight what is perceived, does a hostile power to the eu, placed its nuclear missiles or attempted to place its basis in luxembourg? I think other eu countries would be concerned Well, I'm I will I'm getting out with. You is, isn't the true to say that, of course, a country like Russia, which perceives the united states as a strategic adversary and best placed, its basis, all placing its missiles on its borders is they concern on what happened with lavished on if you any etc. That was a little bit from because those countries whenever in the long history, part of the russian empire, but but ukraine is different because there's that you know emotional element as while on a much bigger country to know, but this is

If there is something that is quite opposite to what had been claimed by devils at the gate or Mr Putin, because essentially are ukraine did not place new glinda size on the stairs through the woods. Nobody, a monk ukrainian politicians, among you bring a statement of even the public leaders in public leaders who would ever suggest to placing to deploy nuclear missiles on ukraine that would threaten moscow or russia. Now the case was exactly different. You bring in nineteen levy for a sign with the best memorandum through which ukraine removed all nuclear weapons that what exactly located on the ukrainian territory and give- all nuclear weapons, the russia? So that is why? even the real threat, this threat from russia, but you re not from you bring to russia,

and actually the recent constitution of ukraine. In which stated very clear, there should be no foreign basis on ukrainian territory and there was only one before military bases based on your bringing territory. It was a russian navy based in service in crimea, so that is what eve was any threat to anyone. It was threat from russia to ukraine, not I worked vice versa and until the very last moment you bring was never played any potential that Ukraine never invited united states on. Neither to deploy nuclear me size or to deploy your troops on bring territory or deploy a you're yours on made the basis on ukrainian territory, the

George, you bring in population war against NATO membership untill. Would you attack ukraine in April, saw them fortune occupying crimea, occupied sevastopol, studied war in dumbass, so reaction of ukraine to defend itself. It is the result of pollutants, aggressive policy and he's aggressions indians, ukraine entre, but why is it that so many people in the west was shocked when he invaded very few: people predicted it because of the west is living in different reality. Many, I would say one leaders and western leaders, political leaders and western lit in the sense of media and public opinion. They really decided that all gave the life that they are enjoying a spy

In europe and the northern america, the last several decades are so good that they prefer to forget all prefer, not to see reality beyond europe, the borders or north american borders, and the raw thugs. In the world that occupying the highest position in power in number of countries, the raw imperialists, they the aggressors, and they are using very different policies in different attitudes and different actions, from those people who are living in europe. Just people pretend to see that that part of the world does not, exist or if they would breach of some kind of goods horse. All

So called diplomacy, which means doing nothing that would help to save thousands of life from attacks of facts and imperialist, they suggest mistakes and that you, by the way are you asked me before whether MR put in this rational and very he well whether he understands was going around the world. Mr put another sums the stones very well. What is going around the world, but me the western leaders do not frances. Do you like pod costs and policies? No, my alma real man, I'm only interested in football birds fast. Because last time you tried to drive a car, he had a panic attack when you got overtaken by a grenade. She would sure be very aggressively and use disgusting language for a woman to write. Well, for those of you who do like podcasts and politics, then you have to check out the last debate. It's a podcast and youtube show for political eclectic.

Want to escape their media bubbles and engage in good faith with ideas from across the political spectrum. It's three four instruments cos critical spectrum, discussing the big issues of the day, reveries, a former obama staffa and school principle. Cory's a former. Books, radio, news house and work he's a new york post column is instead of being at each other's throats. They focus on bringing new perspectives to the table and constructive debates that sound less like crossfire and more like discussions between real people. They sound like us, apart from the whole sound lot your papers with that, and they might actually know what I'm talking about. Changing the loss to buy out on youtube or wherever you get your podcast do you. The west has done enough in order to support ukraine. O d think that actually worked should do is I should have put up my stronger sanctions may be done more, particularly because maybe cute

well, then advance and try and take other nations the shop answers. you know, and we can discuss what the west might do, one very basic principles Actually it's coming from our earlier discussion is that if thanks are already rolling. They cannot be stopped by sanctions. That's a very simple and not very pleasant lesson to leaders, the public opinion, the regular people thought eerie if already war is started, If members are flying, if miss tiles, a shilling cities and killing people on two things are rolling. you cannot tell them by resolution of the united nations general assembly. You cannot stop there, by sanctions. Whatever functions will be just please, let me just remind

and everybody in nineteen, thirty. Nine. The soviet union studied war against a month. It is so called soviet we need war or with the work that is known in Finland. A couple of words after that the soviet union has been spell from the league of nations, the question is expelling of legal nations or from the united nations. It is if it would be day whether it stopped style him to continue here attack and philip. No, he continued this war for another hundred days, whether these expulsion from the league nation. Stop stolen from occupation of baltic countries know inviting forty. Whether that fact stopped put you stop Stalin. It's interesting! It's like a fight fraud like okay, so just when it stop starting from occupational

the site I've been, doesn't look, I've been looking for you know, and actually expulsion from the league of nations is a very serious action thought. It means that these particular their issue is acts, but we have seen in the past did not stop stolen or hitler when he actually, he himself left league of nations, so either aggressive decides to attack neighbours, membership in international organizations or sanctions of economic type or transportation or personal sanctions do not play. in your role. They would continue these aggression. They would continue their attacks, so that is why it is necessary to change minds of those people who referred to think once again in those in event in ideas of sanctions,

the expulsion of what that, whatever no four hardware policies for hardware tat, it should be hardware response one living can work. It's not what you mean by hardware response on track. It means resistance, its new, the forceful resistance Do you know what, when I mention this, so you finish for of nineteen thirty nine. Ninety, What do you do? You know when Stalin really the war. Now when he received information, that the british and french troops embarking on the ships and are going to be shipped to finland, the white on the finnish site, as soon as Stalin received this information, he immediately stop focal peaceful negotiations. And stop the war. The you know when putting stop the he's attack on georgia in the year two thousand eight. We know these just now.

by base. We know it's by our minutes. On august eleven April solvent eight george bush junior, be it in front of the white house, lang by his menaced over the fence and assistance on national defence and proclaimed that he's directing use troops to the region immediately use may be studied the move from mediterranean. The black sea in use air force has deployed to romania and to talk here to be yours basis, twelve hours after that, we can stop attack on georgia. That's a powerful result of resistance of resistant, a very powerful country in this world, united states for aggression

I take your point on drawing its a hard line and you know it you all do it well. What would you say to the people going on a second here if you start the part of how annoying resistance your words we were on the we're on the path to world war. Three. I really can part of the question on dry. If you use the example of Stalin, which again is a good point, but let's pisa study Didn't have nuke, steady, ok, mister, wootten, first palestine ahead, nukes the know anybody ninety got, but in forty nine india. Would you know that I have already had the uk's after that there was a green war and how korea have been saved. At least part of europe have been saved, with resistance with resistance from it

nike state united kingdom, a number of other western countries who supported and defended south korea? It's only way to do it and actually even fallon did not use nukes in korean war. What about Mister Putin? Okay in the two thousand and eight during the russian georgian war, Mr Putin did have nukes. You can use it when the americans moved troops into the region. No, what happened in April saw them fifteen when the russian one, by violating turkish airspace for forty seconds, took turkish jet shut down russian wanderers,

and to people one of them, pilots have been killed. What was the reaction of MR put you through the action of turkey? Not united states, turkey just needed alone. What what direction Mr Putin promised to punish turkish the made those, but he did not do even that sought after that. None of russian wonders violated, bookish space anymore, and yet some eighteen, the group of russian missionaries, we're trying to capture share the gas plant in their eyes, nor in syria. What happened after that america was kurds, destroy this group and two hundred mercenaries were killed. Russian mercenary. What was irrational, Mr Putin, nothing deep silence for four years that continues up today.

we can never mention it had not not even use nukes. He never mentioned dukes He never mentioned this case. What is going right now during these war against ukraine, what turkey did took. You did something that no one accompanied you took it essentially participated in those war on the side of ukraine do, you know about drones, yeah, no draws on the very well known, took it closed straits. boss, morrison that the nails! the russian. Maybe he has been left the minute uranium and again see those ships. Those navy that good shell and bombard or death when you can live in other ukrainian cities saw juki closed the straits. What we hear from this, the boot him with a he's threatening to use nukes against her,

No, he never mentioned I publicly the once again weakens We not only imagine such a night was mister started, not in getting fallen. Eight whispered. You were so georgia, but right now today, so what countries and somebody this prefer not to be afraid to resist. What does rapporteur, MR putin? Nothing? but those leaders who actually place for MR putin pretend to be afraid to prevent them. Be fearful, and that is playing the game with meat. Pretty nine from poland, slovakia, bulgaria, it was a decision of MR by did not give those jets the ukrainians, because of news, because such a threat, ok, it's a game. Its is again for four. Hence, as we say in russia, since the games of two people, one person knows

The role of the bad cop, another is playing the role of good cop, but they're playing together against ukraine so I know that a lot of people will be interested in you. perspective, and I am very interested in the perspective. We bring that's, not an argument. I've really heard much in the western mainstream media at least it is quite a scary argument for people, because essentially you're asking us to play chicken with nuclear weapons. in the modern age in which they use nuclear weapons would end all life on earth is not really a rescue, you think they nodded states should be taking its re strange. Mr Putin was threatening to use nuke so he's playing, at least in both threat, so many times that those who preferred to not to hear what Mr Putin is doing, just who is

realistic, who is understanding what's going on? Mr Putin has already using blackmail by the threats, for that is what, if you refused to do it, you a weak position? So it means you're, really surrender in this battle, whatever you can call, the real war or psychological bethel or whatever. Just if one side is then the refusing to use some particular instrument, or some particular weapons it means you already surrender, because the other side is ready to escalate and if you are not ready to escalate, it means ready for the immense you're ready to defend it, only way, just ok, just let's imagine that we and, applying the geopolitical, but you happen to be. The night oiling the evening did back corner some folks approaching you

the very clear intentions, but what they're going to do with your with your friends all of your family? Ok, What is your reaction, your reaction to defend yourself and you close once or to run if you're, not if you're going to read the bible to that person or those persons, Ok, you probably would not weak win this battle, so that is what either you white. It's not a guarantee that you can win but at least you will try, you have a chance or Is it oh, I'm not going to use my force, I'm going to good book due to that person will get what they want to what's going to happen? You will be in a very bad position, knocking as I think, sprawling over simplification, but doesn't matter let's get into your recently by the way it is the same. Absolute. The same story is a psychological warfare leaders or become free, refuse to use the

instruments of the weapon that in their disposal today. It means they don't have them just if you do not use nukes Can you imagine imaginative or some kind of possession it means you don't have it. It means are just you end up in the position of not luxembourg. You are not united nations pay, you you're, not united states you're, not united kingdom you're, just luxembourg or switzerland or finland, but they do that nuclear war can end all life on earth, I think place very much into making it a big array. You then, just you being mugged for your money by I thought in the strait. There is events of the that's exactly the point the put in these using because ok, because you are thinking in that particular approach- ok, just in the end this but you're lying, ok and he's a very different one? Ok, that's exactly the why you really ready to be defeated

your ring. I do. I need a good I'm ready to be completed. So explain this to me. What are you policy prescriptions in this moment? How should the united states- because, let us be clear britain from in germany they can all do things, but at the end of the day, it is up to the united states, the most powerful country in the world. By for its decision make on these issues. Were Would you have america do right now? That's another mistake by the way, konstantin geckos, we Ask them to think about the united states. The most powerful country in this world and That is why people just don't believe. Okay, so we cannot do anything. Just let's wait until U s presently would do something. We are position right now, especially with a arrival of new american president fourteen months ago

investigation where united states, at least under the current administration, is going to do anything in defence of freedom, democracy and law. of million peoples around the world and for the first time since nineteen, forty nine, since the foundation of nato, the western countries free countries free world found itself in the position. That they need to act without the united states, because the current EU us administration would do nothing. Almost nothing for defence of europe in europe woke up especial over the last four weeks, investigation that if europe itself

all european countries would not act by themselves, thought their risk and to be attacked next time. By put him if he will be able to win in ukraine It is absolutely clear that he will not be stopped. He will go further and he's goals are already known. He issued this ultimate to make the to the west to the united states to europe. In december last year, on the somber seventeen he published to suckle draft rigorous in which he proclaim he's goal, is so called returning. To nineteen ninety seven division line in europe, which, with the so called d, not the icy of central and eastern europe,

which means an actual. They mention those countries- estonia, latvia, lithuania, poland, Romania, bulgaria should stop, members of nato and he's not only do not always asian, it is definitely not the reservation of those countries. It is a text of these documents Its exact time will show- and I read those tax andrei. So that being the case. What should Europe do in situation? In your opinion, right now, understand. The strongest army on the european continent is ukrainian one. It's enough. It became known our last for weeks, and the ukrainian nation is resisting this attack and Is the strongest ally of europe in this battle against tyranny, against despotism.

So that is why it's not all need you to humanitarian reasons it is necessary to support ukraine, but it isn't just for genuine european interest to do everything possible an impossible. That's the pollutants. Aggression against ukraine will be the last One for him, though, that is why Europe european countries were. The united states or without united states, does matter need to do everything just to support and defend ukraine. and now we can discuss what exactly you can do. But this is a very important mental point. Europe should not allow grain to be subjugated by I kremlin's muster ok, grey, I am with you a hundred percent how void.

Crucial point. Now is no fly zone, as we all know, and president allowance said it in all he's conversation with western leaders in his statements to the uk parliament, to the: u s congress, to anyone. So just help us to close this guy, it's kinda in different ways, suddenly the best way is neither would pronounce no fly zone over ukraine. That would be the best solution. Ok, NATO scared. It is now talk. Tokyo, turkey alone, can do whatever they like intellectual, the shop. Russian one was in the turkish state without any problem but made these much smaller and weaker them. Drug deal on NATO cannot do it. Ok, but neither can provide ukraine with anti error that once was.

Anti missile weapons with many other weapons, with heavy military equipment that ukraine needs and ukraine is bleeding to provide them with all these weapons, and europe does not provide that weapons that ukraine needs at this moment. Actually, united kingdom he's in the very particular position united kingdom is leading the so called jeff joint expeditionary force. It is a group of income it's led by the uk. So it is expeditionary force you, these geoff can deploy their troops in, let's say west of ukraine. It's not necessary for a gf to participate in the battles, know Jeff would but would participate in peacekeeping missions

they would provide support for he went convoys bringing ukrainians to europe. They could provide security for those. Convoys, with military equipment to ukraine? They would not participate in the battles. We would be just over there, just the physically present, and actually it would be another deterrent to MR lukashenko, who is still thinking whether to participate in the aggression and, yes, you going on up and actually that would be substantial real of europe you, gay and Jeff. Do you great, but isn't that really where people's concern in the west comes from, because I hear what you're saying and I want to defend people in ukraine from russian aggression as much as you do, but what weapons if NATO shoots down a rational russian plane or what panes if russia,

It has done already bombs western ukraine to two to destroy base. for training or whatever is killing british american or other european countries. Soldiers isn't taking us on the road towards war, three which no one wants, and no one can afford. No. First of all, the world war three to some extent, have been announced proclaimed by Mr Putin. So there's a way. If you, if the way is still don't here. That is the problem of the west, not of the reality of some of the best way to stop these particular were from, evolving into real sword. World were he's just to participate in that particular actions and to stop these. What to defend ukraine, because if ukraine is defended saw these potential third world war. They'll be stopped right now and right there in ukraine, but if it is not stopped, it can evolve and kids

lead to other countries, including europe. This is a basic lessons, all the. Second world war, if he'd level, be stopped in czechoslovakia? you would not go to poland if he would be stopped in poland's? He would not go to france. That's a very basic lessons we are dealing with the same issue if put in, has not been stopped in georgia, human through ukraine. If Putin is not stopped in ukraine, he would go further saying story. Entre do not worry that what patron is effectively done here, she's backed himself into a corner with by disorder. to invite you cry. and as a result he can't lose. He just call moves so if we start pushing up against and if we start shooting down russian planes them, what effectively happens? Is noisy antagonizing

It means that his presidency, becomes more destabilized, which means he's Ethel more likely to do something rash, because facilities. Actual position in life is under threat. Know you know what will happen if nato or Jeff or another coalition our western countries would declare no fly zone over ukraine and would provide necessary necessary. To secure this no flies on. It will be the last day the russian jets will appear in the ukrainian sky. It will be a lot of state. from Kremlin it'll be is not very eyes words, whether we here, but in terms of that from there will be none as it was in the case of turkey that not only declared no fly zone over turkish space

airspace, but effectively shut down the russian wander in turkey glow the stricken bosporus. There was nothing, no reaction, for the same story will be in this case, russian place will stop the fly in the ukrainian sky? Simple, Mr Putin, as you ve seen him, he never did anything but comes from these particular picture. He so much afraid for his life, as we can we have seen, but he's has business for ten metres when he is meeting french president or his assistance or he's ministers how a failure. person could start a third world war. Real third world war was nukes if he so much afraid for his personal life. Do you have a website or deep plan to have a website, because if you do then ease dns is a company for you. Easy dns is the poor

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initially there was some people worried that china was going with invade taiwan. Do you think that will happen, or do you think that, because it because a western done more than we anticipated that made the chinese thing twice. First of all its by the dwarf chinese, I cannot, talk on behalf journeys, the chinese leadership? What are they going to do? But from what we are what we know and from we're getting some kind of additional information. I chinese leadership is not happy with what Mr Putin is doing in ukraine and how he's doing so? That is why that gave them. Ah very less and less on what might happen. If china woods. Try to conquer taiwan, with military means. Such an accurate picture does not attract channel

leadership, and that is why you could easily see the changes in the lex in these discussions on the part of chinese leadership compared to just few months. Go when the sea was selling to buy them that they wang the it'll be taken anyway, but now that they know only peaceful means. Chinese is very interesting civilizations and the interesting leadership, at least for the moment. It does not look like. That they are ready to undertake adventure adventure similar to what Mr Putin is doing in ukraine. And francis you want to ask about sanctions as well, then, yes, so own traded. Wanting, I really wanted to talk about as constantine alluded to, was a sanctions question now, though, to imposed some pretty strict sanctions, youths you'd

said that in the short term, that's gonna make no no real difference to the war in ukraine or no difference at all. Should I say but the long term on try. It will die Ultimately, we can indeed, stabilize Putin's regime, because russia, going to run out of money, or does it make no difference at all First of all, we have a historic experience with scientists introduced again some other countries against iran against south africa, against north korea against cuba. What was the result of all those sanctions? whether we seen any changes in political regime of those countries, not a single case. Each of those countries. Much is my smaller then russia included probably smaller, incomparably weaker, so eve that did not happen if such result.

Did not happen in any of those cases. What, if the basis to expect that all The sanctions would lead in time german medium term and long term with russia to now. There is no basis for that, but actual The west did not introduced even curious sanctions against russia, for example, Yes, IRAN, the west introduced embargo oil embargo, total oil embargo. Ok way, you can see it. Well, I guess embargo against russia. No, you don't. We don't see it so. That is why there is no real sanctions against russia. For the moment there are some, but not all, was a serious one, because the motion as one would be: sanctions against oil and gas exports, russia and nobody- even talking about that.

but nobody knows in this case it would reuse. It was reuse. The potential economic potential for your breakfast would agree with that, but it would not change the type of thinking of Mr Putin and his entourage Andrews or to jump into your comes at a price, but Ferdinand american have said they won't be buying russian oil and gas. Will they the? I understand their small customers, the few percentage of the total, but they have said that, so There has been a little bit of movement on that hasn't it now, but it's not embargo its mean just ok, united states. It is buying what our one percent- those two percent of the russian oil absolute. Ok. What does it am I right in blogger, it mean they're, just the western countries, or countries to participate in these policies proclaim that no one can by russian

the russian gas, and they were ready to introduce sanctions against anyone who is trying to participate in such a great So when I get a eurozone economic using economic experts, Spend a long time helping russia, rebuild its economy and get on his fate and you, as you said yourself, you you were successful in that- how do you assess the sanctions that are currently in place? What will be the impact on russia the economy and on the regime or do the results are actually the more seriously. on that have been achieved by the western countries- is a freezing assets of the central bank. Russia, this, it probably the most important step and with actually will rather short term consequences, because these particular step essentially killed exchange rate markets in russia. And deprives companies

since and the government from foreign exchange now. Climate change is a rational, rushing in russia just not more than five thousand dollars. I can be given to is that the private person up a company, but also for six months, and actually even that amount is not available. So that is why the single most important acts that have been taking recently what will be next, ok that will be a crisis little bit. Depression business activity already down by eighteen percent. The forecasts for inflation this year would be sixty to seventy percent. And the recent very bottom actually actual fact is the exodus of private companies from russia,

This is probably even more important than the decisions taken by governments, the private sector that actually with you directed them. Nobody gave them orders, but many of the company's foreign companies, international companies decided to leave We got this of their investments for last saturday, the swedish gates in russia saying that ok, they cannot stay in russia on the current circumstances this is a problem of the most important meaning. The long term impact on russian economy. so russia economy will come back to. The level may be to the ninety. Ninety might is in terms of international isolation, though the period of soviet union ok, but would not change. Calculation of MR put him in the would not change his type of thinking he does much. He will my change.

These intentions to wage war against neighbours. So that is why you need to some, but I have some from in the EU. Those instruments I mean, I find what you are Really interesting on dry, because the providing narrative in the west has been that we don't get involved, we don't escalate tension. do you think that's a sign that we ve gone soft that you're going to so called chamberlain type policies of nineteen. Thirty, eight that time it was called appeasement and it to some extent understood because it was the first time in the history and second, it was under the first We were aware. Britain and france lost, hundreds of thousands are their men, and that is the main

but he was to do everything possible in the possible to avoid another world war, but ok, MR hitler and MR stolen. You have different, I think, using different ideas and they were exploiting these so called pacifists. Dick attitudes of British and french leaders for their famous so we are dealing exactly or almost with a very similar situation right now, so Britain, France, any other european country saying ok, we would like not to be involved. Ok, britain, also. Not want to be involved in czechoslovakia affairs, also death among crisis, or to do some good of with, of austria with action, of gay. Ok, what happened after that and after that happen this a second world war was born.

Think of london of coventry and with war he arrived through the british soil. So if you do not stop war in some other places what will come to you, do your homeless and do your people you optimistic android that this will be solved. And, finally, the west will stand up. in the manner that you wish, or do you think, it's cute and he's gonna keep infringing he's. Gonna kill me bring forward- and eventually we Who is inevitable. It depends on the decision of western leaders. It depends the decision of european leaders. It's not the bans on me. It depends on, the decision of western leaders eve they would participate right now with the hardware. policies and they will be able to defend ukraine. Yes, there is I challenge the would be the last invasion and lost aggression from voting

eve. They won't do it. The reason very high probability that the world will come to them to their houses and. is it really true? I mean look, let's say for the sake of argument that and again on planned devils advocate, because what you're saying resonates with a lot of my commentary in recent weeks, but I'm trying to understand and my position and your position and to stress tests? So I know you are taking in that spur anyway. Let's say ukraine succumbs to goods and he takes over he. You know you install a puppet government etc. Do you re? Are you really trying to tell people in the west? The poor and would then attack and nato country knowing full well that nato has now taking situation seriously and the nato would respond and nature may strike even with nuclear weapons, if it feels that it has to

Are you really saying he's gonna, try and connect kaliningrad, for example through the EU any and latvia? In that way, probably you ve heard these stories from survivors of nazi concentration camps with they became rode to the popular. If somebody you threatened to kill you take it seriously, The nothing that's a joke. Once again, I sought from me from survivors of nazi concentration camps. Now what The person who repeated repeating again and again and again he's going to come to the ninety ninety seven division line. He repeated not only in december last year, but in january this year, in february this year on much eighth and ninth, it's already two weeks after luncheon he's attacking

ukraine, he's repeating and then again my purpose is in isolation from of europe. My goal is to return made up to ninety mighty. Seven division, like my goal, is to have baltic countries poland, romania and bulgaria. They repeating that right now, so why? I should not believe MR putin. for the reason that you gave earlier, which, as you said, he is the most rational person you ever met and it's clean, an irrational to attack a nuclear alliance, isn't it no looking what is a response from the current us administration It's no doubt for me that if we can move the baltic countries, there will be no response from NATO, at least from meat under the current use administration. No, and that is why Putin is russian so much

Does he need to finish all his business before yet something before it is absolutely clear because he used actually very quiet. When there was another? U S, president, he was very quickly. I ask you in august by george bush and on the on the tramp, why would you some nerve and they ve tromp was in power? No, because the trump the russian mercenaries risk have been destroyed in syria and after that super. surprise there was no any provocations on the russian side. In syria, in ukraine. There was a substantial decline in hostilities. Anyone's was so called the mother mrs, but there was a very substantial decline in shootings in the in the line in dumbass every has changed on January twenty first, yet southern twenty one next day

after biden- became you, president, the shootings the number should is increased ten times the number ukrainian military had been killed in the bus increase than times in. Exactly from that moment, we can start. Did the mass I keystrokes on the ukrainian border. He did not have happened. The trump it happened with MR by them. So that is why a book in london, sounds very well that you have a window of opportunity you until by them is the president of the united states. So that is why he would try to do everything possible than impossible within the short period of time and to at least twenty twenty four. and aren't. I do think that the debacle in Afghanistan influence Putin's thinking watching what do you. I stood watching They messed it up the complete disaster,

we think that just solidified his decision, no eight just additional element in here thinking, because once again I mention this. The booty has studied to act actually against ukraine, another direction from january twenty first, twenty twenty one before tobacco Gonna stop because wouldn't knew Mister Biden. Very well because MR bite on travel to moscow even in soviet times in nineteen. Seventy eight and during the meeting with his friends the politburo of central committee of communist buddy, Mr Biden, betrayed russian. Soviet dissidents. It is on the record, MR booker, in he's archive, actually put all these documents, on websites, you can read them both from an english, so that as well, the position of MR binding, the watch

so give this a dozen. Seventy eight thousand me monies in seventy five to courage. Later is very well known, MR bigham. It is his position. Through all his life. So that is why our guns were not forced nations that have been betrayed by him and ukrainians is not the first nations. There are many others. For that case. So that is why it was not hard to predict what kind of policy somewhat gather actions will be from MR by them. So that is why put in study to act on it you think you're forced and what happened with I've been some only reinforced he's thinking, because he said it was exactly that we

An you remember, by the way, it was not only the battle in afghanistan after what happened in afghanistan. What happen Mr Biden, ask MR put them to deploy american troops in central asian countries in budget is done in kyrgyzstan in those biggest on what the shock united states president is asking is requesting the international fact an aggressor to deploy american troops in the third countries, that's it! It's gonna its confirmation of the imperial type of thinking reagan, not only in part of Mr Putin, but on the part of MR by them, because mr pike by them is thinking in the type of speed of info

It's already give central asia the sphere of influence of water, and that is why he was asking pudding for permission. How did what is possible that united states present would be discussing with anybody else, except to the leadership of these particular countries with its possible are not possible. This is a reflection of our sphere of influences in MR violence. Mind and in the minds of key skill, leaks well and any college has been at a berlin interview. Thank you so much for your time. I were going to ask you a couple of questions for my local support, as the only they will see, but before we do, we've got gotta about travel. it's no money, we say what's them thing we're not talking about as a society that we should be putting in your case. I think you have such an

jesting in very different perspective to most people. What else should people know about russia and ukraine? The current situation? One haven't we discuss what is really important for people to understand about the situation that you think isn't being talked about enough. There are men seems to talk about, but just probably one of the topics that we just touched a little bit would be useful for our audience. We need to understand that Mr Putin was able to act so aggressive land, so silly the land so rudely only if there is a support from some western capitals. If such support- that's it hidden, suckled did not exist, wouldn't wouldn't

attack ukraine and thousands of people would never been killed that people should understand and the basis and the root of these thoughts of support for Mr Putin is exactly this particular type of thinking, suite of evil This is exactly what you mention you remember when you you reminded about you, miss meyer in he seemed in its exact the school of so called international relations or diplomacy, and does it the school of thought that has been shed by MR by them by MR brons? She ate, by MR blinkem, the state secretary of the united states and the current use administration. This is a rude. This is a problem. The problem on the west, and that is why the youtube is spreading. These statements from

john me, smile or a bloody was now and so on. This is a school of thought that deep rife independent nations from their sovereignty from there. independent choice, whether they would like to develop and due to the joint western. union or whether wouldn't they would like to be within civilised asian. All they would be under the boats from the kremlin or any other dictator. Thank you. so much for your time. It's been a real pleasure. If people want to follow a moron, common tree, where is the best place to do that? I'm writing a regular on my blog in life. Giorno bought com, you, lady or enough, don't live journal about, come and also facebook, myself, I am relying on of seven ok, so just welcome.

we'll make sure to to get the links in the description of the video we thank for now, we thank, although it is for watching and listening- and we will ask you a couple of questions for supporters in a second. But with that. Thank you so much thanks for watching. You will see version one another berlin interviewed this one and I always go out wednesdays on sundays. Our role shows go out on thursday, friday and saturday and for those of you trigger trigonometry on the dog is also available, is about cost, take care and see you soon guys, How likely is a palace coup that would remove led him puts him from power,

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