Today, with amazon business, jan and stooping, wilburn woodworking helped her team by sixty three circular saws have had now. She uses our time to focus on growing something big eyes: martyr, dream, bigger visit, amazon business, your partner for smart business by low and welcome to trigonometry on France's prospect, pon constance and kissing, and this is a show for you. If you want honest conversations with fascinating people, Oberlin guest today is in evolutionary psychologist, he's an author. she than many other things godson they call you. The godfather welcomes trigonometry also. to be with you guys. I heard a lot about your shower, so thank you for inviting is fantastic, too, beyond, but most of all funds will know exactly who you are, but for anyone who doesn't just give us a little insight into who? Are you how are you where you are and what has been your journey through life? The lead you inexorably here, so

I was born in Beirut. Lebanon grew up there till the age of eleven, were part. Alas, route of remaining Jews in lebanon. At one point, there was a larger community, The issues are still a very small committee about larger than when we were there and through the twentieth century, they would be saddam. Various I say this is of Jews because become more precarious to be jewish in arabic. But we hung in there until nineteen seventy five. When the civil war broke out, it was a very very brutal civil war. All civil wars are judged against these standards of the lebanese of a war and there they were many many militia that were fighting the problem for jews that they didn't have too many friends. There were some amongst the christian militia that were were towards the jews but had begun clear that we have to find a way to, regrettably leave lebanon

Oh I see so. I spent the last year of my life and lebanon experiencing the target of the civil war, but luckily we all escape came to Canada In montreal, from the age of eleven didn't My undergrad in mathematics and computer science at mcgill university, also known as the harvard of wars and then did an mba with specialization in operations, research or at least the many thesis and operations research which is applied mathematics field. then I went onto court now I did a masters of size and a phd. My phd was in cycles you have decision making. Really. I specifically look that what is it that we ve acquired enough information to make a choice so that the scope of stopping decision so, for example, if I'm choosing between two cars to purchase or to political candidates to choose from or two

girls to marry? When is it that I have acquired enough information to say I'm ready to stop acquire information already to buy a car. I am ready to vote for candidates, be so kind hurry to classical economic theory, which argues that we should look at all of the available information before we make an optimal choice. We don't do that I read with there- might be a hundred attributes that we can look out, but we only look at twelve before before we stop and make decisions. than the cognitive processes that drive that stuff, decision. Then I obtained a professorship concluding university now, in my view, de, I had been bitten by the evolutionary bug, evolution psychology but which at the time was a nascent discipline. I had read a book, besides, I first semester is about for students by professor name than his region, where you signed a book called homicide.

Written by two evolutionary psychologist husband, wifey, where they looked at patterns of criminality. From an evolutionary perspective- and I My epiphany right there that I would be doing exactly the same thing, but instead of applying the chase, I called you to study criminal behaviour. I would start argues that study consumer behave. I'm so then I went on and had so far I'd like think a successful career as a academic as decided at the intersection of other set evolutionary biology, evolution, psychology, consumer psychology and then increasingly became more engaged in the public sphere, where times. I would be waiting and on scientific issues, but more broadly, I would weigh in on all kinds of nonsense that is, that has infected the to them at and you lame problematic. God is what has happened. You became a toxic and problematic, so do you use your the start of your costume, trigger

I'm basically the grand daddy of triggering the other Why not correct sound like oh by the way, incidentally, for those, you don't know how I got my name, a godfather it ass. It is a rat story behind them, so I have been approached by a wrapper. Can either wrapper owes? You have become recently long known for particular niche- he basically wraps about science, he wrapped about evolution, precisely because he wants to have a medium to attract young kids, to the science evolution, fear and so on, and so he was only a fan It's not the means that aid would you like to be in my next wrath, video, it's called. I am a african and So then I put out a call on social media. I said: hey guys, I'm going to have a separate career now as a rap star, and you give me some street cred name

that I can go by and I don't wanna go by doktor sad professor silence on some street cred, so people I suppose, all sorts of names none of them were ever there were so many great ones, but none of them stuck and then one day I was sitting at my local cafe talking to the to the owner of that. Cafe, telling him that when he stopped and said, oh, that's easy, you're, the godfather out from iran the godfather so contrary to some of the areas of their, we think that it safe infestation of my grandiose narcissism call him I saw the godfather- it's not me who came up with it. It was that gentlemen question an answer. We started with you being toxic and problematic. We want to get to your research, which is fascinating and in particular the stuff you talkin about how people reach that decision threshold. My final, no francis is yet to proposed his girlfriend. After ten years,

Some other is that threshold fertilizer, we'll find out. What's going on there from evil before we do that, you ve got an upcoming book which obviously were drawn to is called the parasitic mine hound taxes. Ideas are killing common sense and the question for you is: will the koran a virus and lockdown? Are you hopeful that your book will no longer be necessary? it's more necessary than ever, because the court I I've now resorted to calling the idea pathogens that I thought about it. My book, as the corona virus of the human mind right, so that basic idea of the union to summarize about that does, of course, cover him. So, Let's, let's start back with a start from this from the beginning, with a quick story about neural parasitology so

where's the apology. As the the study of parasites, the parasites can infect an organism in many places right. There are some parasites that go in your gut there's now. Neuro parasitology is parasites that go to an organiser, your host's brain and there are all sorts of incredibly macabre and fascinating examples of these neural parasites. They ve been hijacked the behaviour of an animal. Some you may have heard allow mention one or two so that the classic example of some of your yours would have heard of eyes of plasma. Gandhi said this is a parasite that will, in fact the brains of mice such that they will lose their innate fear of casting wisely, become essentially attracted by the smell of the cats. Urim. That's,

what a good thing if you're about striking, but it's a good thing for the parasite there's another type of parasite. That parasatize is the the brain of ungulates, deer, moose, Elk and so they'll start and gate once they are infected. They'll start engaging in circling behavior their heads are kind of listless and they go around in circles unable to extricate themselves from this motion, even though the looming predators might be coming at them, they can't extricate themselves from that. Behavior, so then I take these examples from the animal kingdom, as any good. Evolutionary theory should do, because we could learn a lot from our animal cousins and then I argue that humans can, of course, be personalized by actual brain parasites like the ones I justified, but there's a second class of as I said, they can be, regrettably, press advice by, and that is bad ideas cycle these idea, pathogens and- and they are just as devastating in the same way, that

dear, that doesn't run away from belonging, predator is gonna end up bad consequence. These idea pathogens even a singular one can be devastating, but once you put them altogether, they become truly devastate. it's our ability to think to too to be reasonable to have rationality, to have common sense, and so there

as as any good epidemiologist will do, and that's why the corona virus is so apropos here. You need to start looking at. Where did this virus originate from and unlike the castrati, who tell us that you know, viruses have no origin nor they do have an origin. It's called epidemiology. You try to find out where a virus starts from two in the same way that the virus started in WU han china. I look at where do these idea? Pathogens start from, and regrettably I status as a professor. They all start from academia. They start from the universities of the original place of infection. It's an otherwise the the place where the really idiotic ideas come from is from fellow professors. So the next question is what are some of these ideas so post modernism is the granddaddy of idea agence, because it is perfectly

the science and you logic, anti reason its intellectual terrorism. There are no truth. It's only my true that matters. The scientific method is not the only way to seek to its only one of many ways: its white science right. So why to start with this type of idea, pathogen you literally, are putting dynamite and, although the edifices of reason, all of the way is by which we try to understand the natural world, so other examples of idea packages, social constructive as it were all born with empty mines at its only our society, that makes us where we are by your phobia David, action that biology has an effect on human behaviour. I'll turn relativism who are you whether cutting off the clitoral sizzle of little girls is a bad idea. Dont be erased. Racist, a bigot identity

Politics right, inclusion, inclusion, diversities, like other die, religious diversity, inclusion and equity has now infected all of the areas of excellence including academia whereby we no longer give lofty professorship to people. Why deserving? But if I'm a transgender women of color who is into indeed the studies that are much more likely to receive it, insane its nonsense and therefore this is what the book does it traces, the disease and then it offers an occupation. Some vaccines against, despite ideas, and and guided sweet you talking about postmodernism and only by the way what you said on Sunday incredibly problematic. We might have to cut back from the interview, but anyway, a hum. Surely in the age of the corona virus, where we're seeing tens of thousands of people die, is not the point thing inoculation against some of this nonsense, because there is objective reality. Its people dying,

you know. It's amazing that you say this because that's what that would be the naive, intuitive optimistic hypothesis, which is width such a you know, dreadful reality that we are all facing? kind of washes out all the stability, the reality, though, is that if an animal is most dangerous just before it is about the die. So as these ideas are buying when a lot of these morons are doubling downright sulphates, allow we have an investigation of how the corona virus effects women. More, even though men die more rights in the same way that Hillary Clinton said, while the fact it is always men who overwhelmingly die in war that the real victims are women that are left behind right. So so we are seeing that transgender activists are linking corral virus. A transgender isn t the race peddlers are linking it to raise issues so yeah.

I'd like to believe that what you're saying is true, but I think the animal is wounded by animal. I mean the area through espoused these ideas. I think they ll be a doubling down before were eventually able to call out these ideas from from our public consciousness, Why are you so concerned? This is a question that interest us specifically because it I'm from russia. originally, as our funds on France's mothers from Venezuela you from lebanon, a lot of them people who seem to be incapable of tolerating the star then just shutting up about it seemed to be people who come from a background where you know the freedoms and and the prosperity that we enjoy in the west couldn't be taken for granted it do you think there is. There is something that the of having inexperience outside of the comfortable western she more reluctant to just you: don't eat you an accomplice career, you could just be doing. Your studies are not getting involved in any of those. You think, that's part of why I strongly about it. Yeah, no great question. So

here I'll turn back to evolutionary theory. Actually, so any of us is a product, an inextricable mix of our genes and our environment, so content to what a lot of folks say the tractors and evolution psychology who argue that the environment, psychologists, don't think that the environment matters that nothing could be further from the truth, but so you and I are, as I said Inextricable may laugh of our genes and environment so sudden your question offers addressed the gene then the environment by the environment by me that you grew up in russia. That is well, I'm leavin, the gene spite the unique combination of genes that constitute the person had that has got side as such for better or worse, that I cannot tolerate bullshit. I am physically ill by hypocrisy by intellectual dishonesty by intellectual,

arrogance that masquerade money that Europe, despite the banning brother, if I'd like, I pretend I think that I know so much but in reality and only overconfidence, my stability. So, all of these things are really personally injurious to me so that when I go to bed at night, if I feel that I have Done all that I could, in whatever small or whatever big way, that I can look into it to eradicate the stability. Then I feel that I have failed and my own personal conduct. That's the individual elements of why I do what I do to your question. But I exactly agree with you that we are also a product of our unique life trajectories and so having grown up in love chapter, one of my forthcoming book is exactly answer your question, which is when you go. Up in lebanon, where you see what blind tribalism, does what you see what identity politics does but

I get the is that when I stop you eddie militia old block- and you are- the wrong, but their religion, we put a bullet through your head right wing just email you on twitter right. So when you see what lack of freedom is what blind zealotry is where a departure from red one The budget from reason is, then you come to the west and for many years you feel as though you you're now going to be at a steady state of reason, and then suddenly you have a second war that started the first words waste was eleven on the second war. Is the war against reason in our universities, then I say: wait a sec I don't wanna returns eleven? Not now. What does it mean tomorrow, we will think the lebanon, but give it enough ten years, fifty years hundred years, five hundred years, if we are not committed, to all other things that made the westward that allowed us to come to the wise. Then we will be

next letter? And so I completely agree with you. My life trajectory makes me down much more committed to fight against that nonsense. the god. You say that we we could end up like lebanon. Why is it? Why can we just let people have bad ideas? Why do we have to consistently challenge them? after all this is a free society. Some people are entitled to believe what they think online or you can. I am I'm a true free speech, absolutist and that I believe that, the idea of shutting down people, because even objectively right as well as they get the most extreme position. That supports my position. I am jewish having escaped lebanon as a jew,

so few people could have my judaism as ingrained in my identity, as I am, even though I'm by the way, an atheist, but but culturally, and so on, I'm very mad at the number of jewish. Yet I support the rights of holocaust deniers to appear on campus and say that the holiday, asked that it happen, so there shouldn't be any more of a commitment to free speech. Absolutism than that example, is nothing more grotesque, I more of an affront to true, then to say the holocaust happen, or it wasn't six lemon juice. It was six thousand jobs right, and yet I support their right. So it's not that I don't support the right of people to have my ideas. On the contrary, your bad ideas and me, smash you as the apostle of truth and to live with that. Was a rapporteur. I was that of books, yeah So you can you basically what you believe is bad ideas

we discussed, but I guess what you're pushing back against and probably the reason you feel such don't worry about it. We now, in a society where, if you deceived to have the wrong ideas by their establishment, then you must not speak do you believe that their male and female? You must not speak because that's transfer baker insulting to minority what exactly are we listen? I appeared in some of you are used mainly. this or not, but I appear in front the senate when bills. He sixteen o canada was being discussed deals. Sixteen is that the bill that incorporates gender identity engender expression within the rubric of hate crimes and, of course, my position was not that transgender people should not be free of bigotry. Rights are the best better and since I mean of course, I support that right. But what I will say is that in this, in the service of trying to protect people, people from bigotry, we dont murdered the truth like so there

that in the twenty first century and evolutionary psychologist, has to appear found a green, sad and say no, no, really believe me. There is such a thing as male and female there is this thing that darwin talked about called sexual selection, which has one the main drivers of how trades morphological features and behaviors evolve, and- based on the fact that brought there is bail and female. that shouldn't be something that I have to do in front the king, but the reality, He is because of the position I took them. just literally laughably obvious right. There, I wish to euro notes that that's true, I thought that's one of the first one There's that you used identify yourself. If that others is your buyer logical said. The fact that I do that I already saw how universe It is in general, in some cases, my own university started distance, themselves from me right. So it's great that I have this huge platform. Millions of people know me, but my

Why must it should be such a problematic? But the reality is that you're? Not you give an inch too to these intellectual. was the day tomorrow. It's another into the next day is another trip. So when We are discussing things like whether there are two sexes and that's a viable conversation. We ve already gone down the slippery slope pretty far, and so this is why I find it. Do you It is that's, that's my occupants right is to seek truth. So in the same way, that when you see someone in an alley being mugged, you can be one or two people you that either pretend that you, and here the screens and go about your way or you can jump in to intervene. Well, I'm the of truth or one of many cups of truth. If I pretend that, not hearing all of the killing of true is all around me, then another a good cop of truth and how we get into this mess, because just seems at its beyond parody now, not for instance,

in comedy like a good friend of ours, you probably know him as well. Andrew Doyle said that at one point in talking about men and women in committee, was the hack is subject in the world. put roll their eyes boring. Now you do it, you can feel the tension in the room ways you gonna go with this. Why have we come? and why we arrived at this absolute nonsense. Yes, but my way- and it has been my show great guy so yeah so will they have replaced, it look It's a combination of many things, but it goes back to what I talked about earlier that in my book I try to identify where the virus, set of viruses idea packages began at the university There really is a consequence of several ideas that each other which try to remove reality. They want to be unshackled by reality right, so I dont want to have this thing called male or female tied to me

Would it be better if I could simply add the prefix trends and suddenly I could be got anything I don't like it the idea of being levied he's too, with all the skin. Can't I just the translation and I could become a black man or an asian man, because I saw identified. I don't like this thing: called scientific truth cannot develop a field postmodernism, whereby there is no objective truth. Rather all that matters is my truth. So one of the things I What about the book? Is that all of these idea, pathogens, share and equal commitment to being unburdened by the shackles of reality. They they do. It used different strains of viruses, but they are all committed to being freed? apple, social, constructive, isn't the idea that we are all born with empty he's right, tabular russia and we have equal potentiality. Is it freeing idea right. So you mean I couldn't

then the next Michael Jordan, if its words only because money didn't hug me enough, you mean there is some innate biological reason. Why the at six, sixty six and a vertical leap of forty eight inches might have had a better start this trajectory in the nba? What that feels a lot more free into me, to know that my son could be the next Michael Jordan or the next lino messy or the net Einstein I don't wanna be tied down by this raises. thing called reality, so you take all of these confluence of ice. a packages that tries to free us from reality. Forty years later, you end up exactly where we are and since you're, using the metaphor of a virus, god let me run with it a little bit more, and I asked this question of David Starkey who we had on our show while it feels like about three years ago, but it was just before the lockdown came in so for a virus to be effective in infecting people. Yes, you,

the virus, and you talk passionately network when they buy, had a virus with care? agent, but what you also need is an organism that is susceptible and vulnerable to the bars. So what about western society at this point in time, and so the last couple of decades, though, we have been so actually open to this infection such saw, I think depending on which idea pathogen your speaking up will willing, fascinated different answer, but let's take, for example, the What's your all relativism idea? Who are we to judge the cutting off of glittery, says of little girls right? It's racist, the mustard, it's it's! It's phobic right! Well, that comes from a a If ethos of self regulation right- and I should talk about this in the in the book- that its in many religious rituals right and what an infernal

Then she, I Islam in some catholic strains, catholic sex, You had a tradition of self logic, you should write. If you do you remember that The name of the rose, the famous woman was originally but then a movie which, on the contrary, there is a famous see where one of the monks, his self largely because stood with. I can sort of extricate. My since right, that's a form of piety right. Well, I think, for four for a wide range of reasons. The west, has been infected with, with a self lowly perspective by all else, come from the west and therefore any I think that you see there is a way too late it back to evil white man to white colonialism, to white science right and therefore, cultural relativism then becomes a consequence of that right. The dinner the brown people can't be doing something wrong because there

at global ground people saw. How could you be, criticising their religious imperative to engage in clarice cutting when reality It's the white man that is at the source of all, even though you might think that I'm being hyperbolic, I'm not. There is a man, we'll call for a policy of peace. I think I first heard that turn in their stephen because book, the blank slate was in two thousand to where there is a whole group of africa was useful, genuinely believe that war and all of them Silence is really a product, a recent product of sort of western colonialist, because because we don't have any data, western acquired to british colonialism says you're in in england there that men in any kind of violence they just kind of had they believed in their genitalia. They walked hand,

haven't shingles, they sang imagine by John lennon, but it is really wife back that has introduced. This brutish, like you have to return to the ear of the noble savage georgia who saw right normal sounded. Well today, the noble brown pete. What is the instantiated of the noble savage. against savage. I don't mean it in their derogatory that sentence the jean who saw term so hip- I ll just give you one analysis of how cultural relativism is the by product of progressive self law which, by the way, is very interesting because- and I talk about this in the book- individual level too. Engage himself loathing is a marker of you having poor mental health right. If I clinical psychologists and I david endless manifestations of self loathing. Well, that's we found something the work on during the next and their positions on the other hand, at the cultural level if I'm good in self love

of my culture, then I am progress it so Self flagellate at the altar of self loving is a progressive virtue. So it's insane but god have you not heard, the ganges com was woke up. thirty eyes when he was quite progressive in terms of the religious tolerance and a bunch of other stuff. He was very progressive. Not when it came to the late exert might know it wasn't there that showed that I can ever within which area, but something like one eighth of people have Some descendants of genghis khan and his marauding gang the order. He was a very, very handsome and popular guy, and he was just a very. He was a good feminist and that's why the ladys loved them on china under lover. by the way, I hope you do know about islam is a feminist religion that was specifically that segment is good.

While there are many ways by which seven is the one that I love the most so speaking about idea pathogens, radical feminism, which really responded in many of the academic centres, argues that this again, this is not, as I'm also known for being very satirical and sarcastic. I'm not being success and big literal here, the burka, the knee cobb and, to some extent the hijab are liberating. The bikini is shackling now. Why is that? Because the bikini is a tool of the patriarchy that tries to objectify women, and then you get visually raped by man right male gaze. On the other hand, what better way to avert the visual rape of women to stop male gaze than by putting women. Black tense, that's very liberating! This is not hyperbolic. This is

literally what many feminists, western feminist argue not dead, run for their lives in lebanon, because there I the wrong religion, so they could set their bullshit offices at wellesley, college and pontificate about this gun stability, to go back to your earlier question when you, from the middle east- and you listened to the stuff you like, I can't eat these. People are saying, and you talk again Using the virus metaphor that there are vaccines against these type of ridiculous ideas, can you explain what these vaccines? Oh? Yes, thank you for that question. So in chapter seven of my forthcoming, but I have a chapter- looks at something like all normal logical networks of cumulative evidence,

so bear with me because I'm going to through a bit of an ill vastly overestimating how intelligent see the ieee intelligent, neither of us is bad. I promise you that on normal logical networks of people, the evidence is basically that it's an epistemological tool whereby you try to collect as much evidence from as many separate lines of evidence that you can find in order to construct an argument, it's not a literature review sign in size, usually when you're doing a paper you, then you start off by providing illiterate, reviews I'd say you want to see. Is there a link between asthma and coffee, a deafening consumption, and I'm gonna do a study on that while first, I would like to congratulate my study in relation to all of the previous studies that have looked at me. Like. So that's a little sure you know the logical networks of gmos have evidence is a very, very different peace at the original died that you could think up. Who was really the grand daddy of such

thinking would have been charles darwin because, although he didn't call it normal logical networks of cable, the so a child not one in trying to prove his theory of natural selection, he did it a single study with forty undergraduates. He didn't run one observational study. Instead, what he did assiduously over several decades? Is he collected data from even create the broad range of sources, fungi gee from paleontology from animal husbandry from and so on, so that when you put all of this ever this together it becomes a impenetrable wall of evidence. She is very difficult to try to argue against it because I'm drowning you evidence. So now, let's take this idea and give you in it.

Example of that and I'm coming, I'm gonna get you a question of what is the population it's actually to learn how to think this way. So if I want to prove to you that the that men have evolved preference for the our gas figure, that the female our bastard, but how would I go about to try to prove that to you? Well, I could then start thinking what would be the distinct line. Of evidence from many many different disciplines, different time periods, different cultures, therefrom methodologies, all of which prove my point, Celeste limit. If you examples so we know, for example, that women who have a particular hourglass figure are likely to be more help. The more fertile. So there is a link between that particular morphological feature and the ultimate currency of evolution, which is you're reproduce already. That is a lot of compelling evidence. Then I can go to many different cultures.

Culture, not only western. I could go to the animal, my tribe and the amazon who have not been exposed to media images. Those who might say all its media images that teach you that reference I could show that those men have the exactly his mother was, I can replicate it universally across fifty different cultures. I could use brain imaging studies, whereby I could show man either the arab last figure or not, and I could show them. their pleasure centres will light up, when they see the woman and the out last there are studied. This is my own study where I did it what analysis of the advertised our backs? figures of online female escorts, meaning prostitutes that advertiser services online. So I haven't had a research assistant go to forty eight different countries where these Women are advertising their their profile and, of course, it turns out that the

I will glass figured by. The august figure is a waist to hip ratio between points. Six. Eight, the points of into the nap as you can see, I'm not offered you medical data fertility data neuro imaging data, can temporary modern online internet data. Take her, and by the I didn't give you the full knowledge of the network you could take genitally blind man, meaning men who have never had the gift of sight made them go through a so elicit from them their preferences. Now you might say well how would you do that? You do have typically by having them touch mannequins with different waist to hip ratios, and which man can they choose as the preferred one that one? So what have I done here? I have said to myself. What would be the data that I would need to a mass together, as I said, from different disciplines, different time periods, difficult or you could take

art history, dates of data from ancient greece, ancient egypt, africa, india, do a counter analysis of their figurines and that's the hourglass glass figure you get so I could now go. a four hundred rabid radical, angry feminists, as I have working with all the swagger that I'm known for, and I presented the data and I'm not afraid of them push back and then I usually will privacy. I can't you anybody attacking you what's going on, why the silence? Why? Because I've build europe, the logical network, that's intelligible! I gonna get emotional. I didn't get lunatic. I didn't get historical. I simply but on the epistemological, had that says what would I need to convince my most intransigent audience? Member

The grand inoculation against these about ideas is to start learning how to think. Not. So only like the scientists, because most scientists dont know about the stolen I'm talking about is the faint like a welsh brain evolutionary scientists, precisely does evolutionary psychologist are so often the butt of hostile the tractors, all of whom collectively have the iq. of my shoe, but nonetheless those detractors I viscerally hateful of evolution, because they don't like the idea that the same processes that defines your dogs, roscoe's behave you can also explain why I preferred dismayed versus back me. You may somehow, above their biology, so precisely because I have been so much at the receiving end up within my colleagues of a lot of hostile. the actions I've had to learn how to defuse is there a rabbit attacks like convincing them calmly, through science, so too?

your question in a very long winded way by think I needed to do this weapon. Is you have to learn how to think like a dispassionate collector of information? and the the the fundamental name for that is normal logical network of general developments. When all that wages to shovel? Basically the men of pigs, That is exactly what we are. But again it is fascinating. Talking to him comparably about twenty five minutes left one of the frustrations for us. Whenever we talked to someone like you, who's got so many interesting things that we could talk to about is that you know like we get You are miller, dinah Fleischmann on the shop, and then we spend half an hour talking about so gallop. he's, proved to us. The men actually different from women, and please do not like these very basic things that everybody actually knows. Right self I mean I've,

hurried security, burke, none the less, but I'm a lesson we want to talking about. Some of the other work that you do in some of the research that you did I first will tell us a little bit just as with the you clearly have expertise in a number of fields when you look at the corona virus response and people's behaviors and the government responds in western countries, particularly what do you see from your mindset and your kind of the sexual filtered the weather? We ve done right we've done wrong. What stands out here so what? I am not sure if this is going to exactly answer your question, but one of the things that I've done since the shutdown is. I wrote several articles on my psychology today, column that are all

in some form or other corona virus related, and so maybe I could kind of answer it that way right, and so I thought, okay well, what you don't, what are some things either in my personal life or in my knowledge face as an evolution, it is that I can write about that. Somehow links my personal life or my evolutionary background to the drivers, and so let me give you a few of these examples. So one of the things I think, maybe the first article that I wrote of the series, was one where I am you'd so there's a study by some fantastic evolutionary behaviour. Scientists were they looked at the distribution of scores on collectivism and individualism around the world, so china collectivist right parties, collectivist

arabic countries, collectivist, breton england, canada, individual, that's right! I'm individual societies is I'm pherson individual. Then I'm a member of a group like the rest. Who cares about the individual? The group is what matters most you're, just a incidental part of the larger groups, and so what they showed is that the distribution of countries in terms of how these? or on individuals or collectivism is correlated took the pathogenic density in those cultures meaning cheers who's who have higher pathogenic load in those cultures. More likely to be collected is now you myself why what's dealing so what they argue is collective societies are able to institute. for example, rituals that protect against pocket is more easily precisely because their collectivist, nor, following becomes easier to do when you in a active society you're more like,

to have a clear demarcation between the in group and our group. Therefore, that also creates a barrier against atherogenic transfer. So that that idea- and I I didn't linked to It- personal reality, so being jewish I've there was a guy who wrote a book called. I think the appeal, your manifesto john derived, wherein the book he talks about how Jews historically have actually fared quite well in in these types of pandemics, which basically causes the anti semites. To argue that impact demonstrates that they are the devil, because how come the rest of us all whereas these bastard jews are still alive and farewell well, it turns out that other meats vote it's. What are the six hundred and thirteen command? Is that not the end, major commitments, but the commandment daily life, so these are called hebrew meets about good deeds.

Some of the six hundred and thirteen meets both roughly fifteen to twenty percent. According to John duran relate to purification rituals right. So is this cultural, religious mechanism, that has transcended several millennia. Let us call jews to find a way to protect themselves, against a lot of these pathogenic transfers night of this idea and then find it written So my cultural and religious heritage, but personally I am someone who free corona virus is morbidly terrified, I'm a german full rights of weak. If we try There are two things that I fear: mosquitos and contamination, and I always job that I'm actually perfectly adaptive from an evolution. Respected because it makes a lot more sense to be afraid of mosquitos. Then great white sharks a grizzly bears because by far

animal that has killed more most more humans by many orders of magnitude that the next biggest animal that has given us, are the mosquitoes. So I see a mosquito in the house, I turn into a little girl, but I can go to new mexico and hang out in an inclusive with adult. Was, and I don't bite- and I am not at all scared, but a mosquito jersey into a little girl right at fear of being contaminated by things. Causes me to pre. Corona, never touch things. I don't touch handle at starbucks. When I travel at a hotel, my wife goes through a whole different, negation process to make sure that everything is deemed, because if you know what I dunno if you've ever seeing those studies about what happens in hotel rooms and the staff that there is there. It's gonna virus on steroids, I'm so So one of the things that have been doing is trying to write articles that link my interest in evolution harry with corona virus, but I can't really answer in terms of the

You know what are we doing right? What are we doing wrong because you know at bringing three rabbis and you'll get five opinions. I think it's the same thing three epidemiologists and you'll get thirty seven opinions. They made that the shut out too early not early enough. We should open. We should not. I could bring you big experts in epidemiology that will say that perfectly the opposite thing, so I'm not really sure. I can comment on that. you made a common action in one of your articles, which already enjoyed by the way which, and the coming in a road sit down. It is those who engage in political mudslinging, either tribal, hacks and or ignorant fools not really struck a note with me: could you it spain, a little bit of why you believe in that, because something, I believe very deeply in as well the essence typically relating to the corona about this issue, because I worry that article doing or general provided but more generally as well, because I think that is very important for our times is- did do, but please explain it so

in the pockets of the corona virus. I was basically arguing that the people who I know a lot of people like drunk translation syndrome- let it be truly, is that I actually use a different mechanism. I call it a form of collective, which has itself. you know which was in his yes, it's scary, aids YO, said one thousand syndrome, it's where you believe that you are ill and therefore you going to hospital. I myself, you believe your ill. You say that you are ill so that you can diner sympathy and empathy, copyright it that's the best. That's what happened: jobs. What has been done by proxy is where you take someone who is under your care. Usually biological child, but it could be your elderly parents to be your patch and then you harm them so that you can download the sympathy and empathy look poor suzanne. She has a ill. He saw her sight, He actually deluded need of getting that. Empathy and sympathy causes her to harm her own biological, so. Two thousand then add within a paper in a medical journal where

was trying to explain what has a syndrome by proxy from an evolutionary perspective and then that, germ of an idea then turned into. Many people now know before, as relate to one thousand, where I talk about my theory of collective much hasn t I'm a victim. Therefore, I am ethos rife so the idea is that it is wonderful to link everything to some bad feeling and therefore I'm a victim. So trump is the bad feeling. So in that article, where you ordered that court of Mine- I was talking about the political, the corona virus for that. If I hate trump anything, he does is a manifestation of how evil is if he shut down the border as he's races. If he doesn't shut down the border, it's because he doesn't about american lives. Right and I can I can construct any state of the world as a manifestation of how diabolical yes, I would

The arguing is that try to rise above that and see that our common enemy today is the corner virus. It's not trump, as obama wouldn't have done it differently or any measurably different weight so, but now more generally, the ass it were more generally, for that quote I always say, belong to the tribe of truth. In other words, sovereignty. We'll ask me. So what are you are you were liberty? Are you republican, I even not canadian, so republican undemocratic, don't lie to me and I say I'm neither of these things- I'm a man of each idea on its own merits. So when it comes to the death penalty, I'm actually for So that would make me a republican where's case when it- I am still socially liberal issues that would make me a democrat cause. I don't give a damn who you seek within your bed or whether you're transgender or not. So I would be super liberal there when it comes the immigration. I would be considered supra right wing right, so you can't tell me to any pigeon hole label

because I have this thing called a brain, lousy think on each she based on its mirror. I don't care about belonging to the ideal, w or the group of canadians or the group. I am gatt sad with my merits and flaws and as Luther said here stand right. I stand on the merit of my argument, so to go back to the quote that you what is so kindly the forget about political tribalism followed, truth in some cases, report can say super stupid things, call them out on it in some way. As they say, the right thing, but problem is that I Psychology, regrettably, is tribal right. One of these Features the off the protection of the human mind is that its views the world as us versus that there's blue team and routine. I mean literally this case, read too

What's that there's a great study- and I don't remember the reference and have for many years, tried to find out, because I had heard it in a class when I was a graduate student, you bring in people into the lab and you put them into a waiting area and give them. You literally put like a red dot on them or blue dot, and you say, come back in a few minutes to administer some test, but ostensibly what you're doing as you want to see their behaviour once given that this random do and what happens the red people start I linked together and the blue people start banding together. So at this point it doesn't matter if I'm gay or straight you are not tall or short fat or thin. It's this irrelevant Who has become the way by which I saw the world for that micro moment rightly so, is what is happening in our political discourse. I'm a democrat. Therefore Joe Biden could not have done something even though I see him molesting little girls on camera for the past forty years, he can't be.

because he's a noble democrats breath cavanaugh is an evil republican, for, even though the woman who came out after him, Christine blasi, lousy for thirty six years after the fact, Yeah. I remember where, when how what nobody can corroborate, but he must be guilty now. This is now some idiots who are succumbing to this type of thinking, some of the buy clothes or maybe not closer, Might some of the people who run in the same intellectual circles? Is me why very famous fool. You wouldn't know exactly sir. Come to this idiocy why because they're not driven by the same personal conduct as me again not trying to sound haughty, but As I said when I go to bed at night and I put my hand on the pillow. What drives me is that I do everything that I can to try to protect truth to the best of my ability. If, yes, I sleep while at night, if not, then I'm afraid

so I am only belonging to the tribe of truth. Whatever that choose might be at that moment, political tribalism is not that political tribalism is. I belong to a group. First, damned the truth. There you got the. I just had a piece actually about the very thing: publishing collateral. About the the cavern of the the Biden, the all of that do, you think in one of the things that strikes me is that its inescapably obvious now that some of the the traps that a beast that by one side or the other, and now turning out to be traps that anyone can be tracked by you know this thing off, for example, believe all women, rights once you introduce that you are absolutely fucked, because at some point someone on your side is going to come along and is going to turn out the pavement do anything wrong. It's just the way of the world right. Did you think, Maybe some people are gonna thought to wake up now and goes some of this stuff tat we ve been doing in the last few years. Our

it just my naive optimism talking. No, no, I think that listen if, if, if he, if your optimism work something that we can all aspire to have in the future than theirs oh boy for me to get out of bed rightly Catherine is an eye navigate envy ecosystem that is most infested by this bullshit right. Academia is The coroner virus, The human mind centre right: this is the bullshit is right. by the way. This is one of the reasons why, when people say to me, how come you don't criticise, republicans more or the right to, and as I explained in my book and I'll expand, I've explained a million times before. Let me explain again: that's big! That's like asking a dermatologist but Brah what about diabetes? Vitamin okay if I'm gonna colleges ideal with skin related issues, that doesn't mean that diabetes is not important, but I'm not an annual, as I am a dermatologists anymore

daily life. I operate in an ecosystem that is completely dominated by the left right most of the idea pathogens that I speak up in the book A completely the product of insane leftist progressive stability right. Therefore, I attack that not because that is my secret attempt to communicate to the world that I am a right wing guy, but that's because those are the diseases of the human mind that I'm exposed to write so as to offer. the policies of the human mind ideal, with parasites of the left. Now, if a report- Can senator comes out and says, evolution is a hot and we should be teaching intelligent design. Then I will also go after him, but the real of my daily life is, I am attacking, left us ideas, because that's what I see all that. But to answer your question, I do believe that we can win the idea. I do believe that people can turn around, but I think it's a generation

fight right. You have to have all of the original spreading just like a coroner virus can spread the spreading of the bullshit art. The professors who, for the post, past thirty or forty years, have been spewing. This nonsense to their students. Once you have enough people come and attack these ideas, or once these guys die out or retire, then we will I've seen changes, but this is by the way I tell people you don't have to be a famous professor, with a huge following and so on to effect change. If you see in your classroom your professor spewing, something that you are, you disagree with challenge them polite and if you see someone put something on facebook or fear the bar and somebody says something idiotic challenged. The problem is that most people are cowardly so what they do. Is they subcontract this fight the few public people, but

what my shoulders are only so big right. Now it just so happens that I had the type of person put that I'm very combated. I'm very nice, very warm and very sweet, but you come after me. I come after you ten times harder. That's why some people say but on twitter. Why are you sometimes me well insulted me for the past six hundred days and then I say: Okay, let me bring out middle eastern boy. Let me I've got to be relentless in going after you and usually they shut down their accounts by the way. I decide that I'm coming after you. It is endless how much I come after you right, so people have to and as it turned that I've used before grow a pair, you have to have the stickler Why to say I have a say in this battle of ideas. I should also It shouldn't be just got side and job losses. John smith, who fight on our behalf, we and by

This is one of the things I talk about in the last chapter of my book, called the chatters called call to action, don't defuse the responsibility onto others, trigger honey, badger, your inner honey about it. If you don't know, the honey badger, is a astonishingly ferocious animal fiber, animal god. Thank you so much on my back to front. I haven't seen him this excited for weeks scattered. I love the bare incredible story. Carry on can help by honey. Badger is the size of a small dog. You can do go on Google if you're watching this, whenever you watching it and see a honey badger face down six lions, and the night lies look and say what you like. This is too much. When people see me ninety nine point, nine percent of the time, I'm extremely mellow, I'm extremely shriek, I'm a very affable guy. But if you attack me

in an alley. I am that's sweet and affable. Then I will fight and at that's different, and when I am putting my children to bed, this is called the fund. let the provision rights, you attributed things this position only when you should attributing thinks that the situation right so I'm twitter. I use that meeting two usually smack down someone not so much because unslackened they might have only twelve followers, but because I can who's that opportunity for the audience to watch. How are you never back down from bunch of lines if you're, honey, badger and so to go back to europe. Your question constantly I do I am optimistic, but they caviar. If silent majority chooses to rise up and then fight for that in the battle of ideas, if it remains on for five ten people to do so.

We will lose the bar, and you say that prison evolution airily a reason for people not to get involved in this fight and that their terrified of being ostracised by my group, by France's muscle from constant in there? wherein win the world a comedy. I think it's safe to send out a comedian stone like us. Now I don't mind not because I don't like simply because I live placing people off you know I have that arabic slept in america ma where you're going to fuck with me. Will you know what let's go then, but I think most people one a quiet life day and they want to be part of the group. So yes, so look. What happens is that at any given point there are multiple darwinian pulls putting him me differently in writing. I have made a monogamous commitment to my wife now that's triggering might be an ape moral compass. That doesn't mean that I may not have temptations

the stray, so I got going straight his statement, arguments that those are blaming different direction. I haven't evolved preference story preface to eat a lot of fun. But then I received my cholesterol score. That puts me in a different direction. I get lots of ass. Your question. Yes, there is, a part of me, that's pulling me towards wanting to lead a quiet life, but to those who take. The great risks come together. it rewards right, emperors go to war then have a harem of eight hundred gorgeous girls. The little schmuck whose in his feel, can't get one wife had through history right, so I'm the emperor who is willing to take all of the great risk so that that back now again I don't mean imply that I take those risks because I want the adulation or so on. But what I'm saying basically is no, you want the eight hundred and sixty get it. I want my boy undergoes know. You need to propose to one just one bite.

I should mention that I have a study published in june, we'll behavioral medicine that looks at surrender one and ensure that they might offer the station? I look at how much information that we need to look out before we committed let me just put this into gallery visa. Everyone can see francis faces, gov forget it. I apply that for It worked so I bought all the tradition. Was it nineteen? Ninety four, and this is a paper that I published in two thousand and nine if memory serves me right, so many years later, I applied that framework specifically to mate choice. The idea being I applied that, what's body sequential stopping model such sequential in that you acquire asia and then you decide have I do I have enough information to make a choice. If, yes, I stopped, if no acquire more information, and I applied this model specifically to made choice and gimme, the quick and the punchline when it comes to rejecting prospectus, suitors and others

how much information do you need to look out before you decide that a pair of scissors are losers? Women reject suitors much more quickly right, It was. They need less information to the side that they are this associating from those perspectives to it. When it comes to choosing a final made, then women acquire more information before they make the files. now the fact that it rejection all they acquire less information but that day, when they choose mild, they acquire more information is actually perfectly explore by an evolutionary theory called parental investment theory, the guy who was. It is robert rivers who was still alive. Some have said, arguably, that the biggest evolutionary biologist since darwin that's saying a lot and he's come up with some unbelievable theories that have been confirmed, As for your browser, investment theory basically says that a cross species right and now here please don't be triggered it

so that there is such a thing as male and female at each of those species sexually reproducing species are incredibly transforming, but up if you wanted no sex differences then a species. You need to look at the minimal parental obligatory investment that each sex provides within that species for more speed, she's males only provide a copy, the tory act and that they leave all of these minimal, obligatory parental investment is carried by the females. Therefore, because of that, have to be more judicious and their made choice. You have to be more careful because the cost of making us about them all made choice, Lou much larger female. Now, by the way they are species are called sexual. reversal, species where's the exam the opposite the mayors who are smaller, the males have lessened that's wrong. The females build heroines of

it's yeah in england we call that era is linked and I'm, supposing that's what a super liberal progress, yeah. Well, that you got the joke is, and I call them sneaky fucker signal yeah, but anyways so So in those species you have the exact opposite pattern of sex differences. Imagine how unbelievably powerful that theory is. It can in one swoop explained the pattern of its differences across to million sexually reproducing species without a false, a viable data point right sought to the end. Annabelle imbeciles, who argue that evolutionary theory is nothing but just so storytelling and faster. What nonsense? They couldn't? be further from the truth, because the reality is evident.

Jerry theory is unbelievably for survival, epistemological. The fact that you can't falsify about falsified speaks to its veracity, being vertical. It's not because epistemological you got falsify is because it's true right. If a hundred people jumped up a bit they and one hundred of them crashed it's not because gravity bra is unforced. The bible is because gravity exists and it's recurrently the same pattern that will happen. So that's one of the things by the way that that caused me to develop this normal logical networks of tumult of evidence in chapter seven right, because I have to fight against this idea that so you basically sit around professor and just come up with bullshit host hot explanations, but you can't, as evolutionary psychology, but isn't evolutionary psychology pseudoscience. Nothing could be further from the truth before an evolutionary psychologist can claim,

that something is an evolutionary tree. He sets the threshold speaking a threshold. He sets the cure the threshold incredibly higher than all the other sciences. So it's so that which we are attacked is actually the opposite of what the truth is and that's why I find it so long and by the way, it's usually fellow Academics who levied that accusation which upsets me that much more if it were just a twitter moron, then it's fine he's sitting in his based basement playing a game or stuff. But if it's a fact, academic who says. Oh, it's too bad luck, decide that you don't you wasted career on. You know a pseudo size like evolutionary psychology, while why she say stuff like that, then why I'm gonna roll up their sleeves and communists god you ve gotta, be careful within cells, my friend, because the last five weeks we ve all been sitting in a basement plague itself. Have you got a big evelyn. This brave new world lies, but listen he's been absolute, plays a chat with you. I wish we

more time and once all this stuff is always either when you're in london or we're in canada. We'd love to talk to you face to face there's. So much other stuff we could discuss but another we ve got to let you go before we do that. We have one more question for you, and that's the way we finish everyone to be, which is what is the one thing we're not talking about a society that we really should be. Facetious answer or realized, because I haven't prepared a real answer, so let's do a facetious one whatever you want go for it. facetious answer. a lot of pressure now. Why is it why are we not talking about why area, Monday has more followers than the one hundred, though I for that's answer,

more than the one hundred other the top reigns in the world. In other words, what why is it- and I am thinking about this from a positive perspective right more people are willing to listen to listen to the pacification of oriana, grinding or billy irish, because of the platform that they have Then? If I stood on my platform and screamed all day- and I wish there was a way for us to talk about how we can t value- and I guess People are, do that's how we can do, value, the social costs the worth of celebrities and other naturally the bottom is false, and maybe we can have the philosophers and intellectuals and the academics be the celebrities of our world, not because I am want, but because someone who pursues truth, I I'd like war kid to have as their heroes, intellectual giant, rather than people who gyrate and work and said the other

we know from any relation appointed. You got that get laid fighting an evolutionary didn't exactly exactly listen. Thank you so much for coming on. I cannot wait to read. Your book is coming out in october, exactly as I and ii it's called a parasitic mind how infectious ideas are killing common sense. We're gonna Look forward very much to reading it will afford speaking. We again make sure you follow, got on twitter and allow the social media and we'll see very soon, with the life dream or another interview.

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