Double homicide, a dork, mystery and off hunting note left behind it says I have been watching for a long time who left snoopy who was killer summer watching this family tonight on NBC. My jaw just dropped. Who could have done if it didn't make sense? What happened inside this house? Somebody know what about that do tonight: the only twenty twenty true crime I have been watching watch tonight at nine eight central on NBC the

the hello everyone and welcome to episode. Eighty four of the true crime, all the time podcast, I'm MIKE Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner and true crime, MIKE gibson gibi. How are you man, I'm good, How are you mad? I'm good man, I'm good man. That was a sense that needed to man's. That's how good a worse did the open the sentence with a man and you need the clothes, the sesar. The man is how roles man do you need acts as an exclamation point is right man and give you a hard time, but now I'm doing good, I'm doing good. I appreciate it. So, let's dive right in we've got some new patron, shot out to give aaron miraculous, but I thank you the time skin Natasha jeered, foster jumped up high level, some jerk marcy thrash.

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about katy a little while ago she joined patron she's. Also a huge fan. The show awesome katy had a birthday recent and molly is her sister, that's cool one to give her a bit shout out sisterly love sisterly love and she wanted me to say that katy is pretty ah song. That's really. She said that katy would know what that wouldn't want that man, I'm assuming in joke other than the fact that she's, awesome, yeah, maybe she's you're, always awesome. You say you're awesome to everybody, so just confirming that you are awesome what do you say they get a fur gibbey relays. Yet exactly I've been a lot of great support. We appreciate it well appreciate our people on social media that are retreating

sharing our facebook posed in and then those folks had even on aren't even on social media just tone their friends about the podcast. It makes a world of difference in it's amazing, but whether body does not mean we got people go grab and other people's phones and put in it. Putting it on. You know I mean showing them how to download podcast and here's what you start with your own happens. At the same time, so does out make sure you check out true crime. All the time and solve we're talking about short family murders in virginia in the early two thousand, your mysterious set of circumstances where a whole family is murdered, and it goes from their it's sad story It is alright gibbs. Are you ready to get into true crime all the time I am this week we are talking about Joseph Paul Franklin, an american serial killer. That's a little bit

for an dan most of the serial killers that we ve profile because franklin's killings were, racially motivated your weep. Who file a lot of serial killers that are motorway. did by sacks motivated I all number of things his killings were all about race. Well to try and get a race war started a mixed race couples in black suffered it once I started doing it. and show them how otherwise Promises will do the same, follow suit. It is evil people the copy Well hope, y'all, hope that other white nationalists would do the same thing. So that's a Joseph Paul Franklin we're going to hear from him a couple of times. None of them are going to be good, stations, none of the words that come out of his mouth are going to be good in any way, shape or form, but this idea

starting a race war. You so we're talking about franklin whose a white male that hoped, through his actions of targeting the jewish and black community, he could start, a race war, and he started having these thoughts gibbs at a pretty young age. Now you have to ask the question: how would a young kids get that idea into his head and how does it and you know, by reading a book writ by one of the most evil men to ever walk the face of the earth. Yeah adolf hitler exactly. Does that sound like a good idea? No, no! It does not, but this is the path that Joseph Glenn chose to go down, and this some man gibbs, who committed probably at least eighteen murders to bombings. Sixteen bank

robberies and had a number of other victims that were injured and survive. We know you and I always liked to do. Let's talk a little bit about franklin's background, he was actually born James Clayton VON junior on April thirteen nineteen, fifty in mobile alabama. He was this I can afford children. His father genes VON senior was an alcoholic who would leave the family for very long stretches of time. He would just say: hey I've had, from you taken off I'm goin wherever in in months, maybe even a year later, he would come back, but when he did return ass,

one of these long absence is, he would beat his wife, he would be to children and of all the kids, the four kids. It was said that it was James VON junior who took the brunt of these beatings- and this is not something new for us. Kids right. We talk about a lot of cases that have very similar beginnings to this Joseph wooden. Peter claim that his mother was an alcoholic as well nigh the age of seven. He had a bicycle accident that result. in a head injury. You know we always like to point out the head injury here, it's much more than just a coincidence that a large percentage of people that go on to be com, these serial killers or mass murderers or infamous people have a history of

and injuries in their in their youth yeah no you're exactly right. No way that can be a coincidence. I mean there's there's some correlation between that. There is their people that have done studies on it there. It there's some information out there about it. Now, on the flip side, there's a lot of kids that have head injuries, whether it's a bike accident playing, pee wee football. They go on to be totally far. His parents would divorce before he turned tenure. Some pretty young and in his twenties James VON junior, would change his name to Joseph Paul franklin and I'm saying it now way, out of chronological order so that I can switch to saying- franklin, because I don't want to say VON James bond gets confusing we're talking about Joseph Paul Franklin. They just happened to be the same purse right. It will talk about how he changed his name and why in and all that there,

talk that mental illness ran in the bond family. Josephs brother, Gordon wound up in prison, and Joseph would later say quote: he went completely crazy and his father died in a mental hospital in ninety ninety four, so is some evidence from history that there was a history of mental illness in the family. Franklin skipped school, a lot as a child. He got poor grades, it's kind of hard to do well in school gibbs. If you don't go, you know. I read some things that said that he had an above average I q But you know, smarts is one thing, but if you're skip in school all the time you you're not gonna get real good grades. Believe me, I was ass. Good was gonna You might know that today, at a very intimate level, Joseph enjoy

watching westerns as a kid in he dressed up as a cowboy and not just as a kid into its twin it was said that he dressed as a cowboy any fancied himself when he was plant. You know we all played right role played as a kid cops and robbers good guys and bad guys. Pyro play today. That's a different type of roma. Ok, we're onto my kids do about gas that's a whole different alot of yarkand. Entirely we want to get out. I'd have to on the first issue. You'd have you'd have to sign a nun. closure and gray men or that's that's a lot of work, yet this site shit. But this is what Joseph would later talk about, but when he is playing cowboy he's seeing himself in the role of the outlaw the jesse James. The

The co yunkers he's not the rex west of the world. Rex wes these not seeing himself as the guy in the white had the right then to save the day- and this is important later on, because I think he's gonna you himself as an outlaw member wrecked westerner, whose wreck, whose rings, what rex, I think you mentioned him before so rex, west- is What I wanted to be named because I had a good friend- was named all the member James west, the why, while wishes series Yes, I always wanted to be him, so wanna be rex west, their bad ass country. I've heard you talk about that. Before away, I confuses Rex west. In your alter ego, my concho there's a lot there's a lot of things after therein, Mikey gee, you know in the was in

orange cry or orange rash bonds. I got issues nobody's going to deny that, I'm not gonna. Take that away from you help me, but, like I said some foreshadowing here, because in our laws really what franklin is going to become, but as a teenager sophie ten. Sixteen years old, he gets his hands on a copy of the book, mind cough ridden by adolf hitler, any he becomes fascinated by book in as a youth. He also dabbled in different religions and the ally. These religions were considered to be outside the main stream in height. School. He was involved in an automobile accident that impaired his vision and he dropped out of high school after his junior

here. So the injury was not good use. Pretty severe injury messed up. His eyesight, but why did did do for Joseph franklin, was kept him out of being draft it into vietnam thought there was a silver lining too, that I guess that's what it was in nineteen sixty eight franklin is eighteen years old, he met in married a sixteen year old girl by the name of Bobby Louise dormant and I use term met and married gibbs, but that's bout exactly how they married just a couple of weeks after first meeting, that's early man, eighteen sixteen Then you ve known somebody for two weeks. What are the odds on? What are the odds on that thing? Succeeding? I'm not a lot Will that of married young and it's worked out, but you add those two together. Marrying very young somebody you've only known for a couple of weeks. I don't think people would would give you good odds in vegas on that one. No, not at all

and it's not gonna last they divorce. After just four months, the reason why I want to bring this marriage job is because she would eight or say that very quickly after they were married. She said the sea, this tremendous, change in franklin number one He began to beat her, so that was a big, Jane Reda. That's a huge challenge, huge, and you have to think that this stemmed from, in at least some way, from the from what he saw his father do on the rare occasions when he saw his father, because I don't was there very much, but he witnessed his father be his mother. He also was be regularly at the hands of his father. Tat had to have some do it, but she would so say there were other times when she would

fine him sitting by himself, sobbing, all this is around the same time that he joined the american nazi party. So we're talking eighteen years old here, neighbourhood, that he lived in which, up until this time, had been pretty much, all white was becoming racially integrated. Joseph Franklin didn't like and there was in anger that was building up inside him- maybe it things that he was seeing around him in his world that he couldn't trade and have any control over these things that he was seeing as negative and he's listening to these daily messages that were delivered by you're neo, nazi leader pumping all of these hatred, filled thoughts into his head. He also became obsessed,

with another infamous monster charles manson. That's not surprising, but he's not picking very good roma model, not only dunno how you could get much worse than adolf hitler and Charles manson, but with manson. What really intrigue term was Manson's idea for a race war. Might Manson talked about that a law that was his master plan, so I mean, gives young fir be it from me to tell people what to do, but I think you might be able to find some better role models then than those two guys just issue wouldn't be hard to do walk and any walmart. You can find a role model in walmart, yes, I will never become your touch use. If I had not read my ankles, I gotta go only with a plus forty publications of one's posed by the nazi party. There newspaper white power, anti black anti jewish too,

so it was basically just what I was ready into my mind, without you're, able to without It is necessary to refute any the statements that were made. When you're eight years. Oh you don't have knowledge you as and I just did not know I didn't know there were how to contradict what we say in my car. I didn't know other things so I have a basically just exactly what he said is truth, but I used to get a rules very low and reading my account well? That was so, let's dissect that a little bit just a little bit funny feeling after reading mine com. Maybe that's because the whole thing is full of absolute bullshit, but then

you know you go back to his statement around near his eighteen years old. He doesn't have the knowledge to contradict what is being said in this book that so he can on his own figure out that you shouldn't wipeout whole groups of people, not to mention the fact that we went to war to stop this mad man for what he was doing. So I dunno I just that whole part of that interview was really kind. Of mind boggling to me, because this interviews done way lay he's much older by the time that this interview was done. But he's looking back and say in the year eighteen years old. I just didn't. Have the capability to know that that stuff was wrong. I don't buy it. What eighteen year old doesn't know that it's

wrong to systematically white bow a group of human beings. Firstly, today's world is more than you think, you're, probably right, I'm very naive, and sometimes when I, when I say these thing, but that's why I need you to call me on yes, now in the early seventies franklin becomes, especially in. interested in mixed race couples. He would later say gibbs that he but beyond the lookout for them, he would confront them on the street in salt belittle them This is how he starts right. This is the start of. him going down this what's gonna, be a horrible path and is other died in nineteen. Seventy two aims: it was around that time. That franklin goes all live with this white supremacist movement. Now I had some scrapes with long,

horsemen? He was arrested several times in his early twenties Some of these arrests involved racially motivated incidents. He had a an arrest for carrying a conceal weapon, but you know gibbs, we talk about all time? He never really did any time for these, which these were all slaps on the rest, in its at the age of twenty six, that he legally changes. His name to Joseph Paul franklin possibly because he thought by changing, his name that these arrests wooden follow, but story with how he came up with his name is fascinate, so he took the first two parts from the. Nazi leader Paul Joseph girls, he just fucked around that first the middle name

and then the last named franklin. He took from benjamin franklin really, so you can't get to people at more under the of the spectrum. So you got girls who was one of hitler's can a right right hand? Man. I think he was big into the propaganda rights spreading hitler's message, and then you have benjamin franklin a patriot, the early united states. I just found that fascinating that that's. You know his my, how his mind worked in inch in this new name that he was gonna take now he moved to it in georgia, any join the coup clocks, client does not sound like you sound plan to me, but we'll talk. about it. He only stayed in that organization for a few months, the reason why he said he left gibbs is because they

violent enough for him. The k K, K wasn't violent enough for Joseph Paul, frank and all they did was sit around and talk about what they wanted to do. There wasn't enough action for him. This is the kind of guy we're dealing with. So this is nineteen. Seventy six. This is the bicentennial of the united state It's gibbs was twenty three years old. You remember it very well may already do that to me. I had to dip it every now and then ten ten ten years he was ten years old. so he changed his name. He joined and left the k k k. It was also in this year that he accosted a black man and his white day cornered dam and spread them with maize. Then just a top off the year, Yes, he sends a threatening ladder to Jimmy Carter. Really, let's get on that list

yeah that they get you on a list, you do not want to be on, because jimmy com Carter was campaigning for president. He would end up winning re. He would he would become president peanut farmer, president peanut farmer, but everything that Joseph Frank had been doing was leading up to the summer of nineteen seventy seven. This is really win. His reign of terror begins he started to rome around the country, surgeon, for targets even based on the indoctrination he had received through his readings, his associates, sure with the nazi party and other white supremacist groups. He would target those people that he fell were inferior and we talked about that you in his mind. Those two groups were african americans in people.

jewish faith yeah. It was on July, twenty fifth nineteen, seventy seven that he really starts to put this plan and emotion motion. He blew up the home of a jewish lobbyist named moors amity using a car that a trunk filled with dynamite and amazingly morrison his family survive. The attack did a ton of damage to this house, though so terrible sure, but when I hear this my mind on automatically went to step brothers when Derek was trying to sell house in the two brothers were out in the yard and one was dressed like a nazi, the enron affair. Dress like india he's like. I got all kind of fertilizer. If you get your grass, I got, of fertilizer and it's not funny, but it was funny down the idea not to get too for the path, but step brothers is one of those movies. The first time I watch it. I was like yeah, it was funny, but it was dumb right, but there are,

these, like that the more I watch it the more I I see well things that crack me up, and I appreciate a little bit more every time I see it. That's that's what I like to his pretty familiar makes me laugh, stray that we're talking about that. After talking about a jewish man's it's been yeah and I apologize by a pro nazi sympathizer. But but I get your point you're trying to make you know I mean this is very serious Oh, this is very scary, and it's scary as shit and we're going to talk about try to keep it light a little bit. You know, but yeah you got to it's scary. What I mean we know where this kind of stuff leads to. We seen nuno, but with a roll up too, though com means we can roll up mainly to so many things we can roll up to from this year. In and year there's some parallels to you, the snipers from the washington DC, snipers here, because we're gonna get into it.

What franklin does most of his killing by way of sniping, and that scares me to death and we'll talk about it as we get into it now word from our sponsor better hell. I don't know about you all, but sometimes I find myself getting stock, focusing on a problem or problems. I live instead of solution, but that's not the best mindset to be in, but it happens to all of you. It can be tough to train your brain to stay in problem solving mode when faced with the challenge in like a therapist can help you become a better problem. Solver, making it easier to accomplish your goals. No or how big or small I highly recommend better help. I have used this sir. and I know it works if you're thinking of giving therapy attract that our help is a great option. It's convenient, accessible,

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twenty nine. So, just four days after the attack on morris amity franklin rigged, the bomb to go off in this synagogue when it was full of people. Fortunately, attendance was pretty light that day, yeah and everybody left So by the time the bomb went off there, Nobody there, too, to be heard. Thank goodness, is just kind of a stroke of luck really so we're talking about to attack x, two bombings using explosives that did Matt, amounts of damage, but- Amazingly, no one was kill. Franklin's next target would be a judge in madison wisconsin by the name of she Simon says. It is another thing that blows me away about this case. Franklin is all over the map a mean. He is criss crossing the country. He doesn't go too far west, but you from the middle part of the country east he's

all over the place. So what happens? Is he reads a story in the paper in this story about it, involving two african american men on trial for raising a white woman and when Joseph franklin reads about the case he gets mad. He gets mad at the citizens that is handed down by judge silence, and he thinks it's way too lenient- am for that frankly, makes the decision that this judge has to pay the ultimate price again, all racially motivated everything this guy does. Is that he's the judge german executioner yeah

Then he read about it in the paper I mean how much of the real details could he have gotten from this one article exactly, but he doesn't care because in his mind this white judge was too lenient on two african american males bottom law, so he hopped in his car and he drives off. all the way up to madison wisconsin roles into town on august, seventh, nineteen, seventy seven in he's heading to kill this judge, but as he's driving along there's a core in front of him, that is driving too slow for him. He lay on his horn, but the car doesn't speed up now inside the car driving were. as an african american man by the name of alfonse man is twenty. Three years old worked as a high school, gender. Also inside the car with him was his twenty three year old girlfriend tony schwinn, while not tony, was

and you know this is not going to sit well with Joseph frank, so he laid on the horn again in this time, alfonse manning stop the car got out. He's gonna find out when the heck scorn on franklin pulled a three. fifty seven from under his phronsie any shot alfonse twice Then he got out of the car walked up to the past your side of the car in front of him, where tony schwinn sat, he shot schwinn through the glass of the past, your side door. Then he walked back to his car god and as he's driving away, he drives by the car in front of him, slows down any shoots, tony again, while she's still inside the car. Now there was a witness at the scene that saw the shooting, gave police a description of the man in the car, but unfortunately the This did not yet the license plate number police did recover. Franklin's cowboy had that

keep in evidence and they would later use this against him down the road. Like I said, gives skies innocent is he still dressed like cowboy wrong with a well? You know if it's pajama pants, callaway outfit and it's a problem, pudgy You know you're, not so I've been are here in the morning. Sometimes in you get those funky. You know toy story, pajama pants with the cowboy on it, but you like the where, with fake six shooters hanging off. I'm not looking at your six shooter, but you all. You say I think the cowboys names woody up. It's really weird! When you start talking about it, like you, don't know the character toy story love? How do you like multiple characters, love how you like to play there? if you could pray name everyone on what you're talking about there infinity and beyond tools are some tomorrow answer it. When I, like you, don't know but franklin would later say about these murders quote. It just happened to be two people

that I totally hated. So I didn't dislike it. They weren't, even hume, were even human, is unbelievable. The way that this guy I thought I just don't understand how anybody would not build a see somebody being human. I don't get that says that america, or what book you read. I mean you, clearly see their human yeah, but we know from other cases. There are people for war. never reason in their minds that don't view their victims or don't you other individuals is human bandwidth. He gives it blows me away. It's always shocking. So after these first two murders, frank LAN drifted around the country and he supported himself by robbing banks cassettes. to do men. Well, that's what you do when you're an outlaw and that's why I made you specific mention of the fact that, as a kid dressing up as a cowboy,

way he saw himself as the outlaw so now he's murdering people in these robbing banks to support himself here banks in many different states, wisconsin, ohio, tennessee, kentucky georgia alabama north carolina? That's just to name a few state. He was pretty successful at two ninety. Why? Because they didn't catch him as being a banquet. No, I mean, but that's a lot of banks to rob. You know I mean today that could be tougher, they're just myth guys is so much better at catching bank robbers. Today, yeah. I think he like. I said. I don't think that franklin was a dumb individual. I think he had an above average I q. He would rob these banks and then take off to a completely different stay. He was essentially on the run for time. Like said, I think he enjoyed their there was this thing I think you love being an american outlaw. You know, do and do not

what now he was doing and the key his mind. He was doing justice for his for his for his race, there's the other, some truth that I believe, but I also think he fancies himself an outward who, because he even started taking on the names of famous out laws from the west as aliases She's got a lot going on in nineteen. Seventy seven right he's murdering people whose robin banks even found time to join the alabama national guard during that year, now we mention an accident that greatly impaired his eyesight to what he did was gonna hold the ice, am he memorized it and take his way into the national guard, but lasted all about four months because he was thrown out. after being arrested with a hand gun that had the

serial numbers filed off and I think the armed forces frown against that gibbs, as does law enforcement in general yeah. I don't think any legal. You know police department, whatever right I mean you're gonna supposed to be legal. You just can't do that. It's not okay and it's not gonna ever no one's ever going to be. Oh, that's, okay! Don't worry about it! You can file that serial number off. They want to track this. They want to know where it came from yeah because I mean, if you think about it who files off the serial numbers of guns- people- I don't wanna, be tracked. Usually people doing that better. That are doing bad thing. Now, in october, a nineteen seventy seven franklin, headed to a suburb of Saint Louis Missouri, took up a sniper position across the street from us, Again we hear me had rimming ten thirty odd six rifle and as these people left the church after a bar mitzvah, he opened fire

He shot and killed. One man gerald Gordon forty two years old andy wounded to others. but this was just waiting for people come out the resources Just when I did see some people have begin far While I was wrong, I was really tarifa the way I was scared. While there were new in their particular moors nail, it drove it into opposed telephone it did put some socks on her to have something rest of the rifle on. You know which is kind of crude. Yeah, I really didn't need anything the rest of the rifle I just I was very inexperienced shooter to it that I just started my mission. I was an early in a semi seven. So I'd really nice shoot that were a layer begin practices

a lot over the next three years and became a bush. Your shot with at that point in time, barely hit the browser of not just learn how to shoot hit by so gives that clip too he is. I don't even know what to make of it. It's almost as if franklin is trying to say why he didn't kill more people than he killed, because he wasn't that you know that of an experience. Shooter was very, strange yeah. It was more of a matter. If I just had more time right, I could have did more. I could couldn't kill more people. He sure, as hell wasn't apologizing for what he did know that sorry. I was in a very good aim, this time non february. nineteen, seventy eight franklin was in atlanta when he saw a young mixed race couple. He opened fire on them, killing johnny berkshire twenty

years old and paralyzing twenty three year old joy way and it's hard for me. to imagine the level of hate that this man has in his heart he's going down the street spots, a black man and a white woman together, and he just opened fire on them. That's as raw hatred, it is sought, is wrong hatred, but man about that support it yet, but manifested by you, know, mine com, all these things that he is being fed. This victory, from the nazi folk cities hang out with, and the messages that he's hearing the franklin decides at his next target is going to be larry flat. And yes, it's that letter,

flat, the larry flung the Larry flat publisher of hussar magazine and for Joseph franklin. This has been bubbling up for some time. Flint had been on his list since he saw a photo shoot in a hussar magazine featuring a black man and a white woman together in use sexually explicit photos that set him off and boundaries chance. On march six nineteen. Seventy eight flint was on trial for absent charges and lawrence Phil Georgia, so franklin knew this. He arrived early scope doubt! place, learned aware: flint like to eat any found a building across the street where he could set up in a sniper position, so he was set up in that position with the forty four agnes rifle on the morning of the sex. Any scope

his rifle looking through scope here, sees Larry plant walking down the street with his attorney jean reaps franklin opens fire hitting both man and larry full. it would be paralyzed from the waist down. Reeves would be in a coma for weeks but would ultimately survive, so he didn't kill either of these men Like you, we paralyze Larry flat, and everybody can remember oh yeah, and this if the guy his attorney gene reeves, I mean he was in very serious condition. For you know a number of weeks. Luckily, he survived franklin with later tal investigators that he transported his rifles around in a guitar case nets, actually pretty smart when you think about it. What harm a guitar case. Sure who thinks about so my walking around with a guitar case, not too many months. You know, I mean spicy. If it's a, type of community that you gonna get me

in supplying a lot on the corner. Local bars and things like that you're coming back you see some by walking down the street with a rifle case can be alarming. That's going to catch. Your eye Why, in alabama nineteen, seventy eight joseph meets a sixteen year old girl, they would mean The next year, but on July twenty eight in seventy eight franklin, ambushed and interracial cobble at a pizza, hutton, chattanooga tennis. so I cannot emphasise enough for me he is moving all over the points he shot and killed. Bryant tatum with a twelve gauge shot gun. He also shot tatum. Eighteen, your girlfriend Nancy Hilton. She survived. So the other thing to point out to using a number of variety of weapons used, pistol, His first two murders he's using number of rifles. Thirty out six, forty four agnes come now you

the twelve gauge shot gun. But it's almost year until his next march and I'm not sure, Why the high aid is. Maybe it was the fact that he got married may begin, We didn't have all the free time betty had before right across the country. Looking for more people, the murder, but thou. Would and John July twelve nineteen. Seventy nine franklin shot a taco manager named Harold Macgyver endure veil georgia, and this time he used his thirty out six rifle from about a hundred fifty yards away. Again in a sniper position, shot Macgyver through the window of the taco bell drive through, while so you to me that scary madagascar is a guy just doing his job he's not confront by somebody, he literally a shot from a hundred fifty yards.

there's no way he could have even known that this was coming at scary. To think about people. Targeting you, you never see them in the neck. Your dad get done the next month. Issued twenty seven year old raymond taylor, add a burger king and false church virginia, again, this was another snipers style, shooting, frankly, he's used rifle from a pretty good distance to kill taylor Who was seated inside the burger king is that guy? That's sitting down a fast food restaurant about raid eat his berger and only based on the color of skin is shot. Snap sniper just just because of that. No other reason right Joseph frank, I didn't know. Raymond taylor didn't know Harold Macgyver. He didn't know any of these people

Hadn't done anything wrong to him, except for the fact in his mind, they were inferior because of the color of their skin toby, twenty first nineteen, seventy nine franklin shoot kills a mixed race couple. Forty two year old, jesse taylor. and thirty one year, old, marian barber in a shopping center parking lot and again, another snipers thou, killing wit, the shots coming from about a hundred yards away from his thirty out six rifle summer of nineteen. Seventy nine frank lan cheated on his wife, with the sex worker named ladys master in somehow, as they were Having a conversation in me these tress it comes out that mass Turkey has had interracial relations and for on snaps and he kills her well

franklin and his wife were ultimately separate. Nineteen eighty joseph franklin structure, in january of eighty in the indian plus indiana area January, a he twenty two year old lawrence reese in front of a fried chicken restaurant reese was shot one time in the chest for I'm a hundred and fifty yards away, lady. That month, franklin, shoots nineteen year old, LEO thomas watkins in Indiana, plus and then on may second, frankly, is in wisconsin, he picks up dude name, rebecca bergs, drum who was hitchhike and ends up killing her and no bluff state park. Her body was ultimately found an secluded park near Toma in central wisconsin rebecca. extra was why, but it would later come now that, after she was picked up by Joseph franklin

she mentioned a ham that she had dated jamaican I- and this set him off. Something is simple as that and he killed her that same month may twenty ninth Joseph franklin went to four wayne: india and he set up across the street from a hotel where civil rights leader, vernon Jordan, was staying. He had singled out Jordan any fired a shot that hit vernon Jordan in the back, but it was not fatal. He survived so again. There's most of his killings are completely random. Say, for the fact that there are motivated by race, but then every now, and then he picks a very specific target, Larry flat vernon Jordan, just a couple of, and neither one of those

individuals die in ten days later, franklin is in Cincinnati, ohio just a little bit south of us gibbs just a little bit. He is on the hunt specifically for a mixed race couple, but he ends up shooting two boys, cousins, darrell lane, fourteen years old and don t brown thirteen years old, both african american. These two murders franklin would not admit to until, much later in time. Nineteen ninety seven and he told reporters that he didn't want to end up on death row in ohio because they had the electric chair. So I know I'm getting ahead of myself. I kind of have to this part of the story here. We know he's gonna be caught, he's going to confess to a lot of killings. He does not confess to these. You right away because he does

one ohio to get their hands on him, slap him with the death penalty and end up in the electric chair his want of face- old spark, not all but later on and ninety. Ninety seven he's talking to hamilton county prosecutors and it's only act, they tell him that he can get the death penalty for these two murders that he confessed to them, because, oh, how didn't have the death penalty and nineteen eighty? So they they can't retroactively, go back and enforce it. They can only in for what was on the books at the time of the murder later that same month, june of nineteen eighty franklin is in johns town pennsylvania. He shoots in kills Neither mixed raise couple twice: to your old, arthur, smothers and sixteen year old, catherine mikuli again. He would not

faster these murders until much later actually was at the same time that he confessed to killing the cousins in cincinnati. This a very busy stretch for joseph franklin when you think about may and june of nineteen eighty, he kills a lot of peace. In a very short amount of time, because at the end of june for Glenn is in pocahontas west virginia, where he kills two, checkers, twenty nine year old, nancy, santa marrow and twenty Six year old, Vicki Dirry, both Nancy and Vicki, were why, franklin with later. Tell the story that he picked them up: he was gonna, give them arrive, but key became angry. when one of the girls mentioned that she had a black boyfriend. He drove them to what it area shot both of them again. at the time of the murders.

When he knows that its Joseph franklin, what's tragic on top of the two murders, which obviously is tragic but another tragedy occurs because they arrest and convey. Some one for the two murders and its, man by the name of Jacob beard. He would be arrested and tried, but not until nineteen. Ninety three and he's ultimately convicted for the murders of say tomorrow in dirry in at the time Joseph franklin had already confess by nineteen eighty three to the two murders. Jacob beards attorneys tried to introduce evidence into his trial of franklin's, fashion, but the judge wouldn't allow it wouldn't be until nineteen. Ninety nine, that beards conviction was vacated. He will

has granted a new trial in this time he was acquitted of the murders. After his defence team presented a deposition of of franklin admitting to the killing jake a beard later settled a wrongful conviction, lawsuit an worded about two million dollars. That's a lot of money, but he gave up gibbs at least six years of his life, I'm not trade. In six years of my life for two million dollars, it's a lot of money, but I'm not doing six years in prison for two million dollars, and it's not going to you might do it. I'd probably do it for less I'll. Take a hundred thousand dollars and the three musketeers nazarite trying to give me more money, just gimme those lifetime supply of three musketeers. But you know that's all we talk about wrong convictions or why I don't know, evidence they had on jake a beer that ngos that in depth with it, but the judge

disallowing the presentation of evidence. That stated Joseph franklin confessed to the crime. that certainly would have heard his case at that first trial. Joseph franklin's, last known. Murders occurred in august of nineteen eight. He killed two black men twenty year old ted fields and ten year old, David Martin and this time gives he's all and salt lake city utah always easy. We get some stuff in the mail this week from salt lake city, but we'll talk about that normal male bought what we got in the mail action. But again, what jumps out to me is the fact that this guy moves around so much. He never seems to stay in one place very: I am assuming that's one of the reasons why he got away with some of this for as long as he did, but he was arrested on september, twenty fifth nineteen o

Add a motel in florence, Kentucky florence all foreign, not very far from us. Either but it happened in a very strange way: the police weren't there for him. It's not like they had a tip bad Joseph franklin. Was there and he had done all these bad things and they were looking for them, they weren't they were looking for a suspect. In another case that happened to be staying at this motel Joseph franklin came out of his room to complain to police that the suspect that they were looking for were his car was blocking franklin's car now, if I'm on the run for doing a whole bunch of bad shit, and I see a bunch of cops the motel right. My first instinct is denied. Go out there and china, add on myself wrote. That would be my first instinct, but this is what he does.

and one of the patrol men is talking with him. He looks inside Franklin's camaro and sees a handgun laying on the front seat, so they arrest franklin they taking to the local police station. They interrogate him for about five and a half hours at one point during this interrogation they leave the room. Franklin is alone, any manages to slip out of a window. Not sure how that happens, but maybe don't have a window in your interrogation room where suspects are left alone or maybe make sure that their you know handcuffed to the table. I don't know, do somethin how these people are escaping from police station, but franklin cuts his hair. He dies his hair and he takes off in this starts an all out. Man hunt for joseph fry one. I think at this point gibbs they had started to get a little bit of under

standing of just a small piece of what franklin had done at least maybe in salt lake city for start, but they're not gonna catch up to him until october of nineteen, eighty and when they do, it's gonna be in temper florida and again the search stances around this second arrest when they finally do catch up with him. It's almost you would say somebody made this up because he's in Tampa Florida. Jimmy corridor is scheduled to come to tampa on a campaign, stop right, so his first term as president getting rate and the election is coming up, he's goin up against ronald reagan.

we know who wins that election, but he's campaigning Joseph Franklin walks into a plasma donation center. You know what that is gibbs I do so. I spent probably too much a fair bit of time at plasma donation center yeah needing a little extra cash. While I was in college, that was one of the ways that I was able to get my beer and pizza money, and this is what franklin's he's donating plasma from money. One of the nurses at this place recognizes him from a picture that had been passed out so in advance. Carter coming a you know. They do a lot of detailed work in advance secret service, the the f I the local police. They do a lot of work before hand before president is going to come to their town

I remember when obama came to town, it's the cleanest. I seen our express ways ever I mean they went out lake, up everything. On the other hand, the burma bumped against, though, crash wall everywhere I mean everything was just spotless. We're gonna make it look nice for the president. I guess he came in for those and see the way, basketball game so yeah, but aside for making it look nice there also there to make sure that Nobody that wants to do the present harm there were worried about is security, in it's one of the reasons why they had passed out some pictures of Joseph frankly, if you remember, I talked about it earlier, franklin had mailed a threatening letter to corridor years ago before he became president here. The secret service and people like that. Don't forget stuff, like that. You threaten the president or somebody that

later becomes a president, your names and a file with with your picture somewhere and its from this picture that one of the nurses recognizes franklin from. I guess what were some very distinctive tattoos on his the f b I's called they come and they arrest Joseph franklin and they arrested him as he's walking on his way to cash. The five dollar check he got from donating plasma and said that he didn't he didn't put up much of a fight laugh. So we talk about some of the things that salt lake city detectives were able to put together. They were able to place so franklin in their state from August tend to august twenty first, they knew that he stayed in at least ten different motels during that time.

So not only has he moving around from city to city in the short span that he does stand a city, he switching motels, all the time, it's being smart. he is being smarty. He was. He was very methodical. It sounds like to me in what he was trying to do to evade capture they found his finger. Print in one of the motel rooms that they knew. He stayed in and was a motel clerk that toll police that frank lynn stormed out without paying his bill because as franklin, is quoted as saying blacks were employed there was his reasoning for not wanting to pay his bill. But this clerk was smart you wrote down the license plate number and it came back to a nineteen seven I'd camaro belonging to Joseph franklin, had another witness that could put the camaro in

area and salt lake city, where the two men were killed and they were also able to match the tyre treads on franklin's camaro to those found, near the scene of the crime, so that some really good evidence against him. For these two murders that he committed and in salt lake said he was extradited to utah an a jury ultimately convey Did him in state court of the murders of ted fields and David Martin in salt lake city and he received who life sentences for that. But franklin was also charged federally in these two murder for violating both men civil rights and he was convicted in federal court on these charges, as well and got two additional life sense. So he got for life sentences for the one double murder, essentially to life sentences for each man's murder. One in state court

and one in federal court for violating their civil rights. He was also convicted nineteen, seventy seven wisconsin murders of alphonse manning and pony schwinn, for which perceived to life sentences. So worked a six life sentences in two states, you ta and wisconsin- franklin started serving his life sentences in the federal prison system in marian illinois. Here, right now facility on January thirty, first, nineteen, eighty one on February. Third, ninety two, a group of african american inmates stabbed him fifteen times in the neck, while its aggressive that is aggressive? That's like somebody see icon that prison series wentworth. as the australian female prison is that a show wentworth, yeah I've never seen next netflix, you actually set it right that I don't get

I think so play back, but probably do I think you did, but it's not to check it out, Evan in watching this show goliath on amazon, prime with Billy bob thornton has its good I've really gotten into it. I just finished. The first reason is a really big is really big cause? It's a goliath going up against goliath that was already a tackle and I gotcha yeah it's pretty good to taken them on, but you can't be surprised at this attack by african american inmates on Joseph franklin, can you know he, to have known china shocked anybody know he had to have known that he was not going to be welcomed with open arms in federal prison fact gives you had to be shit in his drawers arriving at that place. because he should allow everybody in there is gonna know what he did

You're gonna know that he targeted african americans that he targeted people, the jewish faith, they're going to come after me and if I was like yeah brunnen in the prison. I would have been like, don't even like making two permanent he's, not gonna, be here much longer, but he survives he's lucky what sounds like a pretty pretty brutal stabbing fifteen jabs to the neck. Would be that's pure luck at that point yeah I would. I would think so to me: what are the chances that one of the fifteen doesn't know sever the carotid and he just bleeds out. Exactly no time but Joseph franklin had murdered in many different states as we talked about and then made things very complicated when it came to-

trying him for some of these other murders, and he didn't confess to all of the murders at the same time so that you know that made it very complicated as well. You know we told the story in chronicle. general order, but your police are not gonna. Know about some of these murders of the fact that he committed them. I should say until much later in time he would acquitted of the shooting of civil rights leader vernon Jordan. Even though late he's gonna admit that he did it, but a jury didn't fuck. And him guilty. They founded not guilty. He was not tried for the two indianapolis merle, I think gibbs. At a certain point you some of these states had to look at the sentences that he already

I had received and they had to weigh whether or not it made sense to try him like we've talked about it's a very expensive proposition, it is, and if it's, if you know that they're going to have a successful trial elsewhere, he's going to get life for what her death, then Why would you spend the money yeah he's already? He already has six life sentences. Two of them are federal. I mean, I think you have the conversation with the victim's family, but outside of that, I think you yeah yeah. Why would you pursue no, and you bring up a really good point? I think you do want to include them right, because you want to get justice for them, but I think there's times where they may not and I have to go through all that, especially if they know that he did it and they know he's never getting out of prison that they may say you know we just don't want

I have to go through all that and see the pictures and relive all the testimony. I think that's a great point that you're bringing out here you're agreeing that it's a great point you bring up yeah nk as give he pats himself on my biggest fan. Ohio did try. later after he confessed to killing darrell lane and an dante brown, the two young cousins that we talked about he received. Another two life senses because, as I mentioned, there was no definite in ohio, a nineteen eighties. So that's all they could give him, but he's got eight life sentences at this point franklin with later admit that in march of nineteen, seventy nine he shot twenty five year old college student, johnny noise, junior in jack, mississippi from across the street. He was never charged with that murder, but he did admit to it and he would eventually confessed shooting larry, flat and bombing moors amateurs. How he can

The murdering rebecca burg, stroman wisconsin ted fields, David Martin, alfonse manning in tony schwinn, and we ve already talked about his confession in the west virginia double martyr, he confessed to Chad, chattanooga synagogue bombing. He started to confess to all types of things, so These he'd already been convicted of in summer hat but, like I said these happen over a period of time from nineteen eighty, three through ninety ninety eight. He didn't come out all at one time and just say you know, here's all the things that I did towards the end is when he admitted to killing raymond taylor in the burger king, arthur smothers, an kathleen mc, but the big one came in nineteen. Ninety seven- and I was the confession of murdering gerald Gordon. It was big because- this was the only murder for which he received a death sentence in this work-

the shooting in Missouri that happened at synagogue is people were leaving the church and Gerald Gordon was kill. Joy so franklin was executed in missouri on November twenty two thousand thirteen, the execution was scared, for just after midnight but as often happens, I held up because of a bunch of last minute court appeals. He was given a lethal injection at six hours, Evan. I am any died about ten minutes later you remember gives we talked about this before this was, after all of those issues came out around the lethal injection cocktails. in there for a long time. They couldn't get the drugs there. They couldn't put people to death, so I think he probably would have been executed sooner. If not. For that whole issue. With the drugs frame when refused his final meal. So we have no details to talk,

about on that. You know like we we like to talk about last meals. I do like to talk about last meals, but we don't know he didn't have one. So we don't, we don't get to talk about weather was I'd have to have my? Oh, I'm not giving up my last meal, but he also didn't make a final statement, and I thought this was very odd and the fact that Joseph Franklin seem to like to run his mouth a lot in their heat to a lot of reporters. He talked to a lot of cops. He spewed hatred in some of his writings and his interview. But then he gets to the final moment of his life and he's got nothing to say. Larry flint came out publicly against his execution. Now is definitely anti death penalty. There's no doubt about that, because he came out and made a statement. That said, the government has no instead all being in the business of killing people

Other argument was that he thought it was a far worse punishment for franklin to be confined for the rest, lie, but obviously none of that matter, because the governor didn't grana reprieved in grant clemency and franklin was put to death. before he was executed in the months leading up to that he. A lot of interviews and he expressed regret for the sum of the things that done. He told many reporters that he was mentally ill. I do believe gibbs that in at least one ends and in one of the trials where he was evaluate, he was diagnosed as having schizophrenia. But franklin was the saying that was not my true. So I was out of control out of my mind. He also said that while he was in jail, he was with many african american prisoners

realize that his thinking had been all wrong, or maybe that maybe that was at the time where he was being stab fifteen. in the neck and maybe get tired of not burma go to lunch line. Him get some without being stab via work has every time that he that he tried to eat is food by thing is a couple of schools of thought here: gibbs either franklin real, It did come to the realisation that his thinking was not correct or he's telling any one that will listen this in the hopes that he'll get a reprieve from the death penalty and maybe it's just me- I am a massive cynic but betting on the ladder of the two over with you. I think there are some people that change their way These changes are way of thinking in prison They have time to reflagged. They grow up alone but whatever it is peer pressure, pure pure pressure, clear here, pressure here, ok, at a slow it down for you, you do you

you in northern france. Smear pressure in northern garbutt beggars yeah you shot away your whole northern great, but I do think that in this is just my opinion gives. I think there are more people that just say that kind of stuff you're, hoping that it's gonna help them in some way, even if it doesn't change their fate. Maybe it's gonna try it's gonna, put them in a better lie: societal lip service Do I really think it's a lot of b s and in many more often than not I'll say that that's what I believe is it's a little upset yeah. I just don't know how many of these people, these horrible people, just all of a sudden change, their way of thinking and on a course. Maybe if I was stabbed in the neck fifteen times you You are my change, my way of thinking to a man really surprised that franklin made it to his execution. To be honest with you,

with prisoners knowing who he was, who he was what he had done. I can't believe that somebody didn't take him out just for street cred alone, yeah or you're right and maybe at some point they made it so that they couldn't get to him, but I would have bet money that he would have not made it to his execution. What what are your thoughts on that would have been? I give the odds that ten to one is that prisoner. Let's say: yeah. Okay, that's vegas! On face! Okay, they bet on a lot of stuff in vague yeah. Well, they bet a lot of stuff in prison too. They do they're just different things you put up her with the rewards foreign currency, is different collateral air. if you lose the the penalties, can be often much different well and sometimes it's it's it? Sir? You share your cell with, might be up forbid, but this tough case to come I mean they're, so many different murders and they, happen in your bunch of different places

franklin is suspected of probably more than twenty murders. I think he's confessed to around eighteen, but, like we often talk about gibbs, who knows what the real number is endless not forget that he had many more victims. He shot a number of people that by, but you know that their lives were affected by what Joseph Franklin did mean. Hell, Larry flint was paralyzed for the rest of his life. To you, ve got the physical scars and you would have. Mental scars is well phone. these people that you know were shot but survive because many of them had their significant other killed right in front of them. That you cannot discount that what that would do to a person Then there is the families of some of his victims. They spent many years wondering what happened to their loved ones. Only too late, you're fine, now to have franklin confess at some point down there

road, so then they know who did it, but they also know the reason why I think that would be very tough to take. Thanks are due to beat, targeted solely based on color of skin or the skin color of the person you're. With that, like we said, the scary thought, and then you add in this sniper aspect and it becomes a very scary proposition. These murders murder scares me in general, and it should scare everyone leah me nobody but there are some for whatever reason: scare me a little bit more than than others, and this idea an unseen sniper indiscriminately firing at people and can take you out scares that scares me to say yeah I mean cause. It's, why? The back of the the hair on the back of your neck stands up. If you ever do have hair on the back of your neck yeah, that's the one

I have, I wasn't sure you know. Ok, I like to I like to groom it is that was, at the last of the last I like to put a lot of product rd to make it feel special yeah blow dry it I dunno gibbs a sniper's bullet coming out of you know that type of it'll happen so fast. You won't even have time for the hair on the back of your neck to stand up. No, you would, you know, with a shot placed in the right spot, you'd be dead before you knew what you would never know. What happened you at least, if you're confronted by somebody that wants to do you harm, maybe have a maybe you can do something about maybe have a weapon of your own, maybe can run away. Maybe you can fend off the attacker with a sniper. The snow fending off. You don't know, what's happening and will never know but unless you ve been trained you're, not even going to know where the shots coming from what you hear the shot you're here it if he misses but weigh heavily, mrs, but you oh no worries at it. Unless you ve been too.

and in that over every time, so you don't know where to run you dont know which, if you're running towards a more away from you, just don't know hope he's a really lousy shot in the distances rise egg. His exact then the distances that

you somebody with a sniper type rifle with a with a really good scope. Can fire from it can be a pretty long ways away yeah? So I dunno it's frightening, but that that's it that's the case of Joseph Paul Franklin. You hear him talk in some of those clips, gibbs kind of makes my skin crawl a little bit skies vile he's. He was disgusting. Just the whole thought pattern: it makes me sick, it really does and ultimately I I personally think the world's a better place without him in it. I really do. I don't think anybody would deny that I give to get some voicemails. You want to check those are hey MIKE and MIKE, who long time and air first time caller randy from

from portland. I just wanted to make a suggestion for a future episode and the case has caught my attention. Lately was in camel wiley and Trudy Lennon. You get to take a trip down under mate. I can't for the accent, but you get the point and keep up the good work and keep your own time. You can appreciate that voicemail speaker, system was messing up a little bit. It was like blurring some of the words was making it sound funny which actually helped the australian accent. It was way better than yours. She said she can do it. It was ten times better than your address. Did god is one. I don't even know what our earlier there actually does like shit. connery, acting roy or oil, as that don't make combo call again rebuke.

Australian boys, guys nice join us as kambo. He he has a really cool accent, but it's not what I think of when I think of and a strong australian. It's not ois, I think of like crocodile Dundee. That's what I think grab your chairs boys he's going to go on rip you a new one. He might get a branch from phoenix arizona just want to say you guys do a great job love the there keep up the good work and keep your own time chicken. That was a very fast email saying: voicemail yeah. It was a very fast email invoice. Very, sustained, varied to the point here: then get out. You can tell he successful. He didn't have I am too he mess around. What are you saying all these other people that voice that salaries is organized? How you're going to have to try to dig your way out of this one uses like boom. This is what I got: here's my twenty seconds, I'm going to

get out get out all you hundreds of other people that have left his voicemails gibi saying you are not successful as long as I know, I'm next voicemail, the next voicemail or mail carrier at that party girl, podcast, that I work and I'll call in. I actually live until a couple of true crime podcast and nobody ever cover the mass murder that happened and help a poor kid back in seventy six. I believe the guy laughing with alloway I dunno. I went through the topic that piqued my interest, but am guilty, and I don't know much about it. So maybe you guys can help me out. Keep up the good work at five. Alright, that is something I'm gonna have to put on the list. Gibbs yeah actually have some mass murders that I've been working on that I've been thinking about doing. We haven't done a lot of them.

and there are a lot of very high profile ones out there. That have happened in the past that that have kind of been thinking about doing give me. I just finished the most recent episode of Joe camel the time and I'm about to jump to all the unsolved at the arab community dave. What's your name, so you'll get a kick out of mine, which is Alicia a helicopter Monday's, oh camilla. I also wanted to give you a crime that I've heard on another podcast, but would love to hear you guys talk about it, because it is such an extensive research which all of your fans are grateful for it. We acknowledge it anyway. The victim theme is renee, heart felt, which was murdered by a stay at the galois such an interesting concave, because he is now a free man and, as an author quote, unquote an artist's quote unquote, and he goes as far as to promote cannibalism as such, an interesting crime. And it's crazy to me.

As he is now a prenup anyway, you guys are awesome. You gotta think minds of madness. Postback and tyler for introducing me to your meeting. Podcast, be safe and keep your own time ticket. That was a great voicemail to try to say your name, However, now on in there I don't either. I just like the way She says that they need to see spelled out in front of me the idea to, but the way she says it It's rolls off sounds so cool. It did and a big thanks to tyler and back we're huge fans of theirs, and you know I know they weave- turns a lot of folks onto their podcast. They've turned a lot of people on to our podcast yeah. That's! What's kind of cool about the podcast commute we got a good relationship with a lot of what we do and it's all you know hey if you like

as you should listen to this, maybe one day we'll do a joint venture. Well, I did talk to tyler crime con about doing something so hey or Jimmy. This is Winston kimbrel. I wanted to college and guys know that I just had to drop my wife and kids off so that they can go back home. I work in west, texas and the old bill that was the hardest thing that I've had to do in a long time and your guys, the show is trying to make them any easier being away from home. Keeping the brain occupied, keep up what you're doing and keep your own transition. I wasn't anything we can do to help man I drink. Your milkshake is that's. What does that sense of of the fathers of my father. the fog a lot of something No, it's a movie and I think it's the one with Daniel daily. It is that you try during all your trickier milkshake It is so ran still the guys-

do. I know I used to watch years ago There is a reality show on about these guys and west texas that worked on on the oilfield. Oh really and notes them doing that I been run into like some tough job. They are very dangerous did I saw it almost bet that once the can handle himself about anything, wait. I'm sure you can. I actually just watch that deepwater horizon the other day with the mark robber, where a blow yeah they're out on, like Kurt Russell's in death, skip movie they're out on his wig. Just that good memories, I remember you off. You are making giddy descriptive, groundless the land area couple thing, both primetime with few weeks back in less Oh and I haven't. I became a listener at that point, so I must say

you guys, but I did certainly thing about three weeks ago started with the suit the smith case and have been listening ever sent fell all giddy, you're dial, Your accents are hilarious. I love it. I maxine audio book narrator for

apple and itunes and amazon, and I have to come up with different dialects here and there and the ones I'm not familiar familiar with. I usually just go on youtube and you can figure out how you can learn all kinds and add to your repertoire, so that would be fun. I did have a case suggestion. It has a little bit about in ohio connection as well as vincent brothers in two thousand and three he was a a vice principal at an elementary school and he drove halfway across the country to murder his entire family, including his his wife, his three very young children and his mother in law, and the forensics in the case are pretty fascinating. So hopefully you can get to that and do that

if you're gonna break I'm face right, she does a very good voice. She does have a good voice if she like some free lessons, I'll, be glad to given what the word. But if you went out on Google and actually started practising it, it would

ruin your accent to be the crazy man. Why would I do that? If you actually got them to myself? Nobody wants to hear you doing them well right, but we'll make sure that cases on the list to a library or sheriff foster from rochester new york to say you guys have a killer podcast of indiana about a month and a half ago, and I'm hooked at an engine real heart, I'm a combative danger on a true crime. Podcast, I'm a part owner of a brewery coffee shop, place near rochester, new york of fifth frame brewing, an outlet at four o'clock in the morning almost every day and the latter fuels my morning gorilla true crime podcasting, so you gotta just to definitely top the list, and I can't stop so

then starting to get you all the other chica episodes- and I was I guess with Adam looking to switch over to she- can solve time pretty excited about that. So yeah. You guys are great and keep it up and it'll keep your authentic great. small from Jared four o clock in the morning, gibbs, who grew up some improvement of some grown up, something man. I barely gone to bed from very long. Do a brook gibbey like a gibbey, gimme, peru and put you know how they are. They put that the the milk foam like in the shape of a heart or whatever yeah they'll do one with your face in it or a K bar or K bar want to scare, but I'd go visit either. One would scare people beko visit for that They can provide a good basis, a phone. I beg drink it up. I just like good coffee. I gives us talk

well, we got an email. This we got the mail ashy Valdez ontario candor sent us a chip from hawaii sent you a chip from was sent me a chest for clear ships. Are girls sent me a chip beer? You got some chips to sent me a chip from hawaii. She was on vacation care We'll see our friend from Portland yeah, so me some chips. Anna harley pan did she very cool. That's cool carol, see Wendy sanders. Coup goal set some chips from Kentucky o, which no love contacted down around the corner. Mary as long yeah, she sent us a whole frickin bar. We went crazy of things from salt lake city, I'm talking hats, special salt lake salt shot glasses, crystal salt crackles with raspberries in them. She went way overboard, but we appreciate it and then she sent you chips to oh yeah. She did semi chips, multiple.

Then we had brit bozeman sent a chip from Michigan for me and one for you as well one for I so that you would have won. Dave Rooney sent one from newfoundland, canada ditty newfoundland says mile, one saint, John, that's important thing to know: pretty cool yeah try there that's what we got in the matter I'd everyone that is it for another episode of true crime, all the time so for my gavi stay safe and keep your own I'm taking

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