If you're a fan of mysteries and true crime. You do not want to miss this new pod cast mystery ink Hossein and josh waters travel around in their misery machine, tesla yup. You heard that right and share some of the craziest crime. A mystery stories imaginable. Sheen started one of the first crime. Serious progress in january of twenty fourteen and Josh is a fabulously funny queer queen pie, castor together. They are hilarious and provide the perfect amount of humor, while also satisfying that inner mystery we all have listened in as they talk about murder, shady mysteries, aliens, legends and, of course, the occasional T. The first episode covers a legend and mystery from the appalachian mountains alone, with a crazy encounter one most once had with convicted child predator Jared from subway. Don't miss out, you can find a mystery ink wherever you listened a pike ass

the Now everyone and welcome depth so to nineteen of the true crime. All the time podcast. I might ferguson with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, MIKE I can give you, how are you they may do good about you, I'm no great good. You and I just got dunning some tsar, which very good really good, So we're full up an were re. Today we are and we got a lot of good stuff come you know on unsolved

there's an episode out right now on the nineteen. Seventy one disappearance of Cathy molten sore headed up to portland main, and we talk about some different areas of main density. the longest running unsolved disappearance in mains history. So deftly check that out before me, inventory episode. Let's give our shout outs, we continue to Some amazing support brenda billing too jumped out to highest level, hey Brenda, mad rhonda. Thank you. Rhonda lynn grades, down the highest level, they thanks Lynn. Sarah angle, was of an omen. Anthony were being a rubbing, most stella hickman Pritchett that use

koala Joey Miller, hey Joey, crystal lay a crystal christie titi. What's going on, titi suzanne da a judge, eeg a barrier should wiggly well, what's going on eca, jenny, stephen beach, any thomas hoskins will appreciate that hoskins sheen, a grant has gone on. A jewel Sophia who Jill Sophia Bethany may jumped out our highest level bay thanks, Bethany Chris, you maker is good on Chris J law, I jumped out our highest level. Would up J erica do go jumped out to a high slot and look at ducal. We had mckenna isler a mckenna unsolved v a was going on unsolved and zach hubbard, as eq Then. If we go back into the ball gibbs this week we selected julie, davison, oh hey, jolly, so that new page round support to continued pedro support,

all of that is amazing gear. We had some great pay. Pal donations as well from samantha unger higher, was going on a higher mariah kodak moreau. Amanda Findley, gave a sizeable donation and thanks Amanda an April warner. Thank you ought not to a lot of great support. There is well nigh buddy. How are you re to get into this episode of true crime? All the time and I'm so ready. We are talking about a man named Michael weighing jackson, and you get. the way in right not to be confused with the pop star, Michael Jackson, whoo hoo, every new much better. Now ever do this. Michael Jackson had a history of mental illness. Anne was incarcerated a number of times in nice. In eighty six, he went on a three state crime spree and murdered at least

People along the way he car, jacked and adopted a number of people shot it out with police and basic terrorized, a small town he's bad jackson is a guy much like Gary Evans, who we did last week, who never made it to trial for his crimes, I think, as we go through your everyone will see that the evidence against him was pretty compelling. So they add that to the fact that are really feel, like saying, allegedly throughout the whole episode. I do think It is one of the things that I found most interesting about this case is that the majority of it takes place on a single day, maybe one of the longest days we ve ever talked about now background on microwave jackson is a little bare he was born.

In september. Twenty third, nineteen, forty five g, Hubert and Bertha jackson find a grave dot. Com. shows him having an older brother who died in two thousand. Seven Michael's father died in nineteen. Seventy eight and it appears that his mother re married and had at least one child, a daughter named Tammy who would have been Michael's half sister, and I think this is a very different for us gibbs. Unlike most killers, I just could not find much information, on jackson's early years, but especially on the family dynamics, and maybe that's because there was nothing there and for me that's always a shame, because you dont know if Nobody ever figured out what the dynamic was, or they did

just wasn't worthy. You know of reporting on, because he didn't have what we were considered to be. You know the childhood that many of these killers hair he did have a history of alcohol and drug views and jackson had a history of mental health issues gibbs over the years he was in and out of hospitals. He was treated for schizophrenia and anti social personality disorder. His crimes peer to have started around the age of fourteen when he into classmates. They robbed a taxi driver at gunpoint. Ok, that's pretty ruthless four year, allegedly your first crime, fourteen yeah. so pretty early right, fourteen years old to be using a gun jacks, was married at the age of nineteen, but gives this was a guy who

was in and out of prison pretty much all the time, and I think it's pretty tough to make a marriage work under those circumstances. His white divorced him after five years during one of his prison stems, but they married again few years later, only too realize about a year. In that yeah we made another mistake, always find that a little bizarre you know, you're, like I'm done, I'm gone, go through the whole process legally to be divorce, just to turn around come back in what let's get back to give it one more shot. Yeah I dunno for some people. I think it's maybe one of those. I just can't quit you type of things until it becomes hey. You know what I can't quit you, maybe they need a patch for their blue would be a good moneymaker. You know like a nicotine patch

you're something a patch for those relationships that you just can't quit. Now, I'm not talking about domestic violence situations. Obviously that's not something joke about. I'm talk about those relationships. You know there's a little bit toxic. Both parties are really good for each other. but for whatever reason they just can't seem to stay away was terms. I think they like the drama. That is true. You know they do. They bring it into the release. It because they thrive on drama yeah. Some people do thrive on it, they invited in they perpetuate it. Now the couple did have two daughters together, but it was reported that he only saw his daughters a couple of times like literally two or three times, and I'm not sure if that's because he was a shitty father or because he was locked up, you know so much of his life or maybe a combination of both of those yeah. It could have been

combo so, like I said, not much in the way of background, but I think we have enough to paint a picture here of a man. Knew from an early age was in constant trouble with the law. He had issues with both alcohol and drugs, and some of that may have played a part in his criminal activities, but- and I think that is very important. We are dealing with a man here who all so had mental health issues. And these were document because he had been. specialized on more than one occasion and all those things Are we not a good combination of have now now? Definitely not in nineteen eighty five jackson was arrested on it. admiral firearms charge. He was in possession of a sawed off twelve gauge shot, gun saw molotov cocktails

and a large amount of ammunition, just some personal use items, sure yeah I mean as anything ever good com, from a sort of shot gun and some molotov cocktails. I can't think of anything good criminal molotov cocktails where Give me one use legitimate use for a mile above cocktail yearly wanna get that bonfire goin. What that will do it for sure. I do think it's a little hard to argue that you're going hunt, thing, or you know something like that when you're in possession of those thing here before his trial, jack was held in a marian county, indiana jail, the deputy chief, The merry in county sheriff's office, later told news outlets that, while you action was in jail. He told them quote when I get out of here, I'm going to buy

some guns and start shooting people. He was ultimately found fit to stand trial. Since to one year in jail in three years. Probation, you could say that's a light sin right, but again we're talking about a firearms charge here, yeah, I'm not gonna get to into it. We're not talking about crimes against other people. What I do want to talk about is this off the of hey, when I get out of here, I'm gonna start shooting people. S sounds like something been inserted into his file to have a conversation with before he got released well in, and I think that's part of the problem, then I have right so in April, eighty six. He was released on probation.

From the: u s: medical center for federal prisoners in springfield Missouri, while he was their doctors, noted chronic paranoia schizophrenia, anti social behaviour. and they said that michael showed violent tendencies. So they have spent much time, locked up right was only there for about a year right, it's little shocking. I think just because of his record right to crimes it he had committed in the past his record up to that point, It included more than thirty arrests for things like rape, robbery, assault with intent to kill an auto theft pretty heavy rapture. It is a mere talked about. The firearms charge kind of being a victim was crime, while most of these other ones or not

when you, when you're getting into areas like rape and assault with intent to kill those are very, very serious crime and on top of that, yet his statement that he made about when he got out of their what he attended to do Now maybe it has something to do with this being a federal charge, all the other ones were state charges. I don't know what you know. Maybe that was the mac, since he could get right yet also im out that jackson's own mother had written a letter to. the authorities asking her son be permanently committed to an institution where he could be helped mentally and fast, Equally, the later stated, it should be very plain that might cannot take care of life in society an apparent give she wrote this letter after her son gave. for a bare hog, the cracked some of her ribs

sure that was not the only impetus for the letter right, but it's very clear. This is a mother who I dont because of our lack of background. I don't really know how much she loved her son obviously cared enough for him to write the letter. That tells you something, it does, but is being, I think, very honest and in her assessment that my son needs hell. He cannot cope with the world. He has mental health problems. He needs help. In most cases, a mom knows there some better than anybody so in I think when you look at all of these things, it's kind of hard to think that The system really worked here right. I get it then on a firearms charge, but we talked about his lengthy record up to that point. What all was taken into consideration doesn't seem like much if in

thing what about the mental health evaluations by doctors and no from his mother, as you mentioned his statement hate the blame, the system or authorities, because we don't have every single data, but man to me, it sure seems like this was who needed help and that at the very least he should have been kept in the medical center for a longer period, the time to get that help. But me be it is as simple as the fact that his sentence was what it was and once I was up, they had to let him out so he got pearl and after he was paroled. He ended up in Indianapolis Indiana moved into a run down house that had no electric and no water. The windows were covered with plastic cheating you and I might have had some houses like that in the past. We are many to deal with the indian

Hapless news reported that neighbors they entered. Said jackson off then slept on matters in the bed of his truck. why know, there's a love with a man in his truck, but I prefer to be somewhere inside yeah. He had a house yeah. Now it didn't have all the amenities that you would like to have in a house right, but I don't see it as far as I know, he had a roof so sleeping on a mattress in the better. Your truck seems strange it little bit yeah, but that's the thing about jackson. I mean we're going to talk about a lot of things that to most people, they're going to sound very very strange and you're gonna have to wonder? Ok, What role did some of his mental health issues play a sure and some of these things it he did

with the decisions that he may his crime spree began september, twenty second nineteen, eighty six. So at this point in time, Michael Wayne, Jackson was forty one years old. The sin italy living in a van down by the river or the equivalent to that let's be honest. He doesn't have a lot going for him to keep a job when you're locked up as much as this guy was I did see where he work some construction on and off so now he did have a few skills I think in mad arena, but those people tend to like it when you show up and when you keep get in boston after time made you can't be it the jobs. I whether go find somebody else here, the kind of want dependability at this point in his life he was unemployed. I think he was getting some kind of stipend, some kind of pension rights of the disabled,

Will pensions zone what else it would ban? If maybe three hundred bucks a month, now. When you search this guy, you will find a lot of photos of him, the ones you will fight, I'm sure man who looks like he had not shaved door cut his hair, and quite some time gives this was a guy who's beard had a beer or one of those topics. Yeah oh yeah, like unabomber, do you know the kind of talking about where it looks like you? Don't even have a mouth oh yeah, you just can't see it because it's just all beard on top of beer. They get left overs inside the beard and beard either that or possibly there's something nesting some somewhere inside their efforts dumb reason. He made the decision to spray pay his face and beard black and solve don't they use in oakland raiders fan. Now I get it right. You want that song

pepper. George clooney. Look. I don't think that's what this guy was, after all, the rave man it is. I never actually found now why he did it's one of the perplexing things about this case and will soon why, at the end, but not really giving too much, the way to say that Michael Jackson's not going to give us any information everything that is gleaned is through witnesses and account. You know. Eyewitness accounts runs like that to make your best guess, yeah on that morning september. Twenty zack. In thirty eight year old, probation officer, Thomas skull showed up to Jackson's around eight a m There was really nothing special about the visit right. This was a routine, is it by a probation officer to collect a currency,

both from a parolee but Michael didn't want to give the urine sample, not sure if he knew it would test dirty or not. I don't know. What I do know is that an argument broke out between the two men and a neighbor later toll police that he witnessed thomas gall run through the front yard away from jackson's, Ass Jackson was chasing him with a sort of shot, gun, Annie, fired a couple of shots in two goals arm, I think one into his back door

Bring him to the ground. Jackson then walked over and blasted gall and the head at point. Blank range gibbs with eight twelve gauge shaka and you and I have talked before about what that type of weapon does especially at very close range yeah an enormous amount of damage it did. It killed him instantly, the neighbour called police and they got their pretty quick, but not quickly enough to catch jackson, who loaded up is shot gun into his old pickup truck any drove away from the sea police found thomas gall dead at the scene. He had been a probation officer for the years, but this was his first meeting with Michael Jackson so gives I dont think really had any idea of the type of guide

He was dealing with other than what he had read in his file and who knows what was in their rights God had a wife and two sons he had served in the marine corps as a first lieutenant and he was well liked by everyone and was considered to be a fair and professional probation officer, but I think it's a fact that I found very interesting is that thomas gaul was the first united states probation officer to be killed in the line of duty by a parolee yeah, it's kind of hard to believe you know when you think about it. You have. This is nineteen eighty six think about number of probation officers, the number of parolees throughout the years- and this is the very first time that approach. We had killed their probation officer gnawing. Did you

would have thought it would have happened at some point. Many years prior in and really a lot of times, Emily surprise. It didn't happen earlier with a lot more occurrence jackson next showed up bad J bees market sometime around eight thirty, a m inside the store was the owner. Forty three year old, Jim hall in sixty year old russell, then osd a salesman for the perfection biscuit company. These guys knew each other pretty well, because Russell deliver product to the store almost every week day. So as Russell was working stocking some shelves in adding with GM jackson burst into the store he

mandate, money from Jim hall, so essentially he was robbing the store buddy shot Jim in the throat. When he thought tat, he was taking too long to give him the money disguise no patience, fasten the trigger yad, seen some varying report's most. The reports seem to you can go with this theory that he was impatient. He got impatient and then I think there are some theories that he he was just going in there to kill. So it didn't really matter how fast the store owner moved, because, regardless he was going to take him out yeah, and I think you can look at a couple different ways. Please got to the scene of the shooting very quickly to find Jim hall. But once again jackson was already gone now. Russell Van oz doll was gone as well. Jackson had forced him to drive him in his delivery truck

india indianapolis international airport, but once they got their michael, released Russell, which I'm surprised I am too and I think you know we're going to be saying these things a lot in this episode. Why did he do this in this one instance, but then do something completely different in another read he could have killed both men, sure, your wife all the store clerk was it really because the guy was a moving as you one in two did you get the money anyway you domes, and why dame and then make this guy drive you to the airport, but then be like a hey thanks. Thanks for the lift I'll see you later, I'm leaving you unharmed. Police found accents: nineteen, seventy four pickup truck bacchus, J bees market and this abduction of Russell Van Osborne was just the first of many

as Michael wayne jackson started changing cars to throw off the police as he made his get away because at the airport he carjack thirty year old, mark Maclean and took off his red zuzu truck. I don't make us zuzu anymore. Do they get plan? I don't think so. Zuzu your man, the guy that used to do the commercials for them. Having decoding joe Zuzu he was an actor lawyer any had like a recurring role in their commercials. I just don't remember those commercials. I remembered the zoo track and I think they had like a a wannabe jeep kind of vehicle yeah. I think they made a number of models. Yeah they're out there with you know the the fishbowl car and the fiesta and all those other fun vehicles will drive off our whole zoo, zoo, audience. Haiti cat fans after the year we've all

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phone with any meant mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts and if you're, not one hundred percent satisfied meant mobile You covered with their seven day money back guarantee to get your new wireless plan for just fifteen bucks a month and get the plan ship to your door for free, go to mint mobile dot com, slash tita, that's meant mobile dot com, slash t cat cut your wireless built to fifteen buxom up at meant mobile dot com, slash teacup, but you know here's the thing about jackson, so he got this. Car didn't hurt, mark me but basically just drove it to the west side of Andy and traded the zoo for a black escort its eye. He he didn't dried. These cars very long and- and I don't know this kept going through my head during the research

He so paranoid that he just felt like he had it change cars so quickly. I think he was angry with you. This escort belong to twenty. seven year old, jody smith, and she was actually standing out front of her house when Jackson walked up to her with his shotgun jody was waiting for a tow truck because her car had broken down. The escort was another car owned by the family, so jackson forced her into that car, not too long into the trip they had to stop forgets, but they did the old pump dash, which prompted the person working at the station to call the police- and I know, gives you remember the old pumping dash. I'm not saying you did it. I'm saying you remember it you gotta get gas and that tank you gotta, do what you get. do it was actually a pretty big thing

when you and I first started driving, it was a pretty big deal still. Until late ninety when I was running some gas stations up in Detroit michigan, they used to happen all the time. He has his wondered how many times that happened, and although stations at you ran- oh, my god, wash more times in you, wouldn't you would like to think now. Of course they basically solve that problem. Now, by either making ease card or prepay for your damn right there you know back in the day, there wasn't as many cameras nephew talking now when you and I started driving in the eighties cameras, were not that big of a thing. No, they were, and so a lot of kids our age. My had some friends that did it. I never did and I'll be honest cause. I'd tell you if I did, but you know. Of course gas was like I dunno forty five cents, a gallon

whatever it was. But that was a lot of money to us back then, but they would fill up and you know look around and if the the one service station attendant wasn't looking boom, they were gone I need to know how many times you lost jura gas. Hose too were people just forgot. Her can just drove off with it attached yeah. I don't remember we It happened, but you in the nineties, by the time I was running these gas stations. They had developed the breakaway home, ok, as in the old days, if you forgot, you would pull the frickin pump with you, oh nice, but smartly somebody came up with a like. It's like a cotter pin, basically a connector thing where that part would break

and so you'd have like the end. The hose re still with you, but the pump would be fine. Ok now was pretty expensive to put it to fix it. So if you did that and came back, they make you pay for it, but so the sort of point there is to just keep driving don't come back, don't come back here from their jackson, headed with jody to frankfurt, indian, which a little less than an hour from india, it's north a little bit west, but it was in frankfurt where jodie saw her opportunity to escape. So they got to this intersection and as the car slowed down she jumped out, she survived. She was able to get away, but the car rolled over her ankle and broke it, but you gotta think gibbs about the guts that this woman show. You know, she's tough,

tough! She has no idea what this guy's plans are by hell: she's, not waiting around to find out where she saw the best opportunity took advantage of it can it makes the hero? My arms stand up just thinking about it, yeah I you think we all like to think we would do that, but I dont know. If all this would you some people they get so paralyzed with fear that they are incapable of of kind of acting that? What would you do makes you think we're, but again, I think most people would say I would do this. I would do what jody did is easy to say that that's sang the question is: would you physically be able to carry it out mentally physically? Would your body, let you do but I always liked the stories of people making that decision and getting away from the bad guy

now. There is no guarantee that this guy would have heard her, but there is no guarantee that he wouldn't we ve already seen he's unpredictable. He kill some people, he lets other people go. You know, I'm in the camp of you, don't take that chance when you have any opportunity Why get away man so after jody got away? He made the decision to change cars again now this decision, I get the person that you had with you the person whose car you stole. They got away from you. Well, definitely they're going to go to police and they're going to tell them what car you're driving so I get you gonna change cars, so Jackson found a mobile home park on the outskirts of frankfurt. He forced is

way into the home of Deborah Psmith, no relation to jody. They both happen to have this same last. Name is smith. He abducted Deborah, as well as her two year old son and force them into Deborah nineteen. Eighty two mercury- he drove about five miles away from the mobile home park, robbed Deborah of anything she had. Her a value and then let both of them go. Thank goodness, thank goodness and amazingly Debra was able to flag down some officers who just happened to be out searching for jody smith, cause you gotta, think all of this is happening very quickly, but point michael weighing jackson was headed to Missouri. Now, according to the end, apples news police received the call at three p m that day, with a text that jackson was.

at his house, hiding in the basement. So detectives went to the home, they didn't find jackson but found what they called quote primitive conditions, Scary, yes, scary, pray, not to surprising we're too said the guy had no plumbing no electricity enjoyed sleeping in an tis truck bed yeah, but what they found was strange. They found a shit ton of phone book six scattered around the front yard dating back. Two ethic was nineteen. Seventy eight We need all those phone books, but you know I read a strange article couple of weeks ago that the very first phone book didn't even have phone numbers in it, but they called it the phonebook, and then I read it in that same article. That talked about in think the state of new york

one of the first phone books. Add all the names and numbers in it, but instead of going like f for ferguson, it went by the first name. So if you, if you didn't know how to search for that, you know, you'd have to go through all the a's and b's, but it was enough within their first names. Yeah that'd be strange yeah. So, let's, let's go back to this first phonebook yeah. If it didn't have phone numbers in it, what was in it it will. They said this. The name of that but not a phone book. He was right to why would she called a foamed? What I address my seems very strange. I don't know where you get your articles from, but I'll go with it this this news thing called the union he hath. No, they also found a skeleton head of a small

more on the front porch inside the house. They found each room almost completely filled. What spots didn't have furniture were fill with tracks quarter. Yeah, I mean I think you can think about a really bad episode of hope. First, there were also different species of animals running around inside the house, and they found headless santa claus doll next to a chair with no legs. Skin bizarre yeah, I mean you're, giving into some weird twilight zone. Do you know that? That's weird, that's weird stuff that all were quarter show messes with me a little bit see. I can't watch that because it gives me the the hebrew gps. I just can't do it because I think about living like that, and it makes my skin crawl. It does man, and I say anything bad about those people, some those people. They have issues sure o oecd tie,

or whatever it is it's causing them to not be able to live. A certain way always have a problem with the refrigerator one when they open up the refrigerator, throw anything I can throw it away more. Have you if you dumb a carton of milk out and its chunky? At that point? And now I can't watch, I don't even want to think about. I came leave. Those words came out my man here, but No doubt you have to think about these police officers right finding this They can ok, we're gonna guy are we dealing with here now they had. the idea that Action was on his way to Saint louis, around six p m, that same night he showed up in richmond heights Missouri. This was just a little west of say: louis and it was there that he put a gun on twenty six year old, cynthia, mostly in the parking

lot of a mall and robbed her things are really moving fast and we're going to see that we're still on the same day and we have a lot to go in this same day, because five minutes later he's in the neighbouring town of o foulon, where he shot and killed thirty seven year old, Earl fan in his car, that there's a lot of information on this matter because I dont believe there were we witnessed this is basically police found fan after he crashed his car. into a utility pole on an exit ramp of I seventy So you I don't know if jackson was trying to get this guy's car and Earl wouldn't stop for him, or if this was some type of road rage incident, or he just decided he wanted to shoot. This guy is all over the place. With this, do a shoot or don't shoot, then about fear.

Ten minutes after this incident jackson abandon Deborah smith core and an eye J grocery parking lot in o foulon. He stuck his not gone. In the face of a forty year, old woman named cheryl Klein, took her keys and fled in her car. Probably wet yourself right at that moment, twenty? Is somebody shoves a shotgun in your face? Yes, I think I would do more than wet myself. I might needed a diaper change. Probably would at that point, but as if you know this whole thing was not strange enough. He drove just north oh foulon, where he encountered twenty nine year old, Linda share at her home. He took her keys at gunpoint and left in her car and I guess Linda's husband was there. He jumped into his car any started chasing jackson, but he thought better of it after Michael started, firing shots his way

what's one way to get people to stop following you yeah I mean this. Guy was probably like hey. What am I doing? You know we have insurance yeah, I'm a tough guy, but it's not worth losing my life over right now. If he was protecting his wife, that would be a different store. A couple of axioms to live by run through my head right. Number one is from roadhouse be nice until it's time to not be nice that's. Why you're favour one that is one of my favorite one and then the second I have no idea where this one came from is you can always replace possessions ray? You can't replace alive it's not worth risking my life over my truck or my wife s, you ve by now fear threatening the,

if the of my family than its on that's a different story, hold others ballpark, yet jackson, next headed to some apartments and oh foulon, this was just after seven thirty pm, he spotted twenty six year old, rick darcy out in front of the apartment, complex brick was washing his car. He objected rick at gunpoint, forced him into his car and took off darcy, told the saint louis despair, I urge that jackson wouldn't take. I seventy. He stayed on the back roads and he was worried about every car. They saw. I mean litter, like if he saw another car on the back roads, he would start He would polo every would change directions, very paranoid, very parent and you know I I think you can make the connection possibly to a diagnosis that we talked about earlier charite

noise gets a frantic. Darcy said he asked jackson why he was running from police jackson said because I've kill and everybody is trying to stop and somebody had tried to get away if you'd to get away I'll kill. You don't look at me and be quite by democracy. Also told the paper jackson offered him cigarettes as they drove based the every time. Jackson smoked one he offered one to Darcy. He is by whether, as fast chain smokers to man like a nervous smoker dear puffin down on him, or yeah. Maybe I don't know what I took away from it was he was a little bit jekyll and hyde right right. Don't look at me. Wait a minute. Do you want a cigarette, how curia yeah hey? Do you want cigarette and I think darcy kind of relate that to the paper as well. He thought it was like this guy was, you know, had two different sides

him and they were switching back and forth like on a regular basis to get to face said batman reference? It is I like it since I didn't have any aquaman references yet I wish you he's a minor character, nobody likes, except for you at some point, jackson, stop the car and force darcy in two frank, he next turned up in right. City Missouri aghast asian sometime after nine p m- and it was at this guy station that police spotted him and tried to arrest him. A shoot out ensued, and Jackson hit one officer in the head, but it wasn't fate. He sped off gonna die. Seventy but lost control of the car Annie ploughed into a chain link fans about two miles west of rights

jackson got out, took off on foot to evade police and by the time they got there he was gone. They did free Darth from the trunk. He suffered only minor injuries in the wreck. Please HU, the jackson was store because they didn't find he shot gun at the sea? He wasn't in the car wasn't anywhere around the car so gives. I think we need to take a just a minute. To recap, this and really, if you think about it, it's kind of hard to believe this is one day I'm does exhausted. Thinking about it. It is really just a little over thirteen hours from the first murder just after eight a m back in indianapolis to the car crash,

that occurred around nine, thirty p m or so a lot of crimes to perpetrate. In one day, it three murders, multiple abductions, indifferent state. One of the things that jumped out at me- and I can already mentioned it- is jack- and feeling the need to change vehicle. So often sometime, in very rapid succession. I mean within five ten minutes. He would change vehicles rate. He would rob the next person get their car keys and take off, and I just kept thinking It was this because he had some knowledge that he was spotted or that person was going to you know, call police, or could this possibly have been the actions of a paranoid schizophrenic?

egg something for which he obviously had been diagnosed, and I think it was and the word combination of the two, because here there there is a thought that if you were robbing someone of of our car jacking guesses. What you call it right, normally think of, or jacking- is you're pulling somebody out of their car and taking it like grand theft, auto style, yeah a lot of times. He was just going up to people they weren't in their car. He was getting robbing them of their key. he's in taking their car? Why, obviously, they know what their car looks like, they probably know the license. Plate number call the police not too hard to call the police yes, and so he maybe he thought why I can only go so far right and I got a change, but five ten minutes, you done a lot of work to start.

people, a cost people point your shot gun in their facing get their keys and take her to not go very far cannot go very far. But then you think about Deborah smith when he got car. He drove all the way to Saint louis, and so bizarre is. Why would he do that? He was so worried that they were gonna beyond the look out for him. Why would he drive that wing than one car, but then feel the need to get a new one, every five ten twenty minutes it did seem strange, yes, pressure, Oh, you have a wanted man on the run police. A me we began searching the woods around where jackson had crashed the car they that night they search the next morning. They didn't find anything. They certainly didn't find him. They brought in search dogs. They couldn't locate jackson and I think one big thing that they had working against them was there so

yeah sure this was right off of I seventy, but it was basically thousands of so farm land words. There was a lie, I love barnes abandoned buildings can be tough. The search yeah This was a rural area and I kind of think of I. Seventy runs in a very closely we are as well. I mean there are some stretches where there's not a lot going on. You know it's! It's not like. You have an exit every three tens of a mile right, you're, going to go some pretty good spans before you have and you're gonna be in some spots, it you would consider pretty were right and that's exactly what this, what right? The closest town was right city a few miles away. A police set up a perimeter around right city and they began stopping all cars. Looking for jackson,

the residents of rice city Missouri. They were terrified, like you, said, small rural city, about twelve hundred residents located Id roughly fifty miles west of saint louis. This was the time of town gibbs, where a lot of people didn't normally locked doors. We, you can bet your ass started lock in their doors when Michael Jackson rolled into town, oh yeah, there the story in the saint louis dispatch of a woman who said she and her basement window with soda bottles so that she be alerted. If jackson tried to break into her house not about way to do it not and not a bad way, gather little home alone. Element to it is all mr glass bottles, not plastic. Yeah, I'm assuming they word. Nineteen. Eighty six me when you read the papers from that. time that area to me, it's it is, though, pretty much every

resident of right city had a loaded gun. Just waiting for Michael Jackson. A lot of parents kept their children home from school. It was a very big deal. People were tariff in rightfully so you have a killer on the loose gotta, be nervous, causally looking up windows, not leaving your house and we duly rouser scanning the area to make sure it's ok, and you know that this is a man who not only is killed. He has no problem. Killing rabbi has no problem, abducting people left and right and whither kid if they have an with there their child rewrite days of searching turned into. We and really police had no idea. If jackson was stolen, the area or

he had stolen another vehicle and was long gone states away by that point. The effort I was brought in on the search as well. Not they believe jacks, and was still in the air based on the fact that no crimes had been reported since the twenty second. That would lead them to believe he'd stolen, car. Will that makes sense right. Somebody would have to report their car stolen by now. Unless you get lucky, I found one that somebody's out of town. It was his in the dry way or something tat. I mean this was a guy who didn't seem to go. Look. for cars to break into ray? his mo, was more to just walk up to somebody in say: hey, here's, my I can give me your keys, so how's he going to get another car with out some one. Calling the police and saying hey guy just to you know, robbed me. So I agree with you. I think there's a pretty.

an assessment by the fbi. The search had been going on for eleven day when the authorities finally caught up with jackson, and I think that time I know that eleven days time period, it also helps. Can it give perspective to why the people in right city were so worried ray? I wasn't as though they caught the sky within twelve hours. we're eleven days into this right and he stong lose well. If you think about how he lived and how he didn't have a problem sleeping ominous truck bed. This is the guy that can live out in the out in the fields out in the woods he did. need placed actually bed down a much easier than someone like myself could do. Yeah you wouldn't last half of a night out and no it's no

no tv, no xbox, no laptop about you, hate the bugs and there it was on thursday October second, around six p. Damn that three fbi agents, any national park service employ were checking some. Band and houses and old, barnes near right city as they entered one barn. They heard a gunshot and I think right away. They thought. Okay, we found our guy, but they got to get out there and called for back up and basically a whole slew of agents and officer showed up and they surrounded the bar. Now visualizing, oh brother, we're out thou you probably not too far off in a bit of cool hand luke to this round barn on that one is You can go any length of time without visualize, cool handling. It is my favorite. They gave hamley fetish. It is my favorite movie, but you, you think,

they don't really know. What's going on, they heard a gunshot. Ok was he shooting at them? They used a bull horn to try to get jackson to surrender. No reply, then around eight p m. They fired a bunch of tear gas the barn? No one came out. They waited a few more hours to see what was born on. Finally, just before midnight cement, vi agents and state troopers entered the bar and basically what they do It was so dark. They had a helicopter fly overhead to shine, light down to help them see, navigate yet to provide as much light is passed when they got in they pretty quickly found Michael wayne Jackson dead. He had shot aims, in the head with a shock. That was the end of that. Once the

broke the town of right city. Finally, breathed the little again newspapers ran tons of stories about in a people saying how relief They were how they could finally put their guns away. School attend, to return to normal and kind of life in the town went on but you know, and the town that small gives something like this, which was such a big deal. was not easily forgot, no had to be a coffee shop. Talk for a long time I'm sure they all guys in town who met at the diner we're talking about it over breakfast sure. Even still, today, there are people that bring it up from time to time yeah yeah. This is somewhat of a strange case for us. Actually, two weeks ro we're not talking about a trial bright because the pope

traitor of the crimes took their their online. So what does that mean? While you don't get some of the details behind why the person did what they did, which you might get at a full blown trial? You might not, I think you might if they choose to go with a certain defence right not guilty by reason of insanity. Ok, they're gonna lay out for you why they did right and maybe you're gonna, to gain some insight into what was going on in their mind, or at least what they want. You to think was going on in their mind and the big question for me, in this case is why didn't go weighing jackson do what he did that it right. He had been purled. Now his life wasn't going great. His wife left him. He had a hard time,

keeping the job getting a job he was living in really run down, plays But while the sudden that day, what was the trigger, we have to think it had something to do with the probation officer showing up that morning. When he did again, I mentioned it. Was it the urine test, We ve been doing drugs and he knew he yeah. He was gonna. back dirty and they were going to sending back in some possibility. Music. I don't ever want to go back. So what are we gonna do to keep going back I'll? Do that's definitely a possibility. unfortunately, will never know his side of the story because he took his life before he could tell anyone. I You think this was a man who had some pretty severe. Mental health issues, it's kind of hard to argue against that

I don't know exactly what the system could have or should have done, but it's hard not to think that. Something more could have been done for him. True too, we. What was going on with ham with signs were always there. They had the signs were there he had been diagnosed. Would it have made a difference? I dont know. Could it have hurt? I would say: no, you know what it could or may have. Emanated that marathon of it that day yeah. You can also make the flip side argument, which is to get that type, a help he would have had to have sorted out and asked her to, and obviously he didn't so you when I look at it. That way. It's again it's hard for me to put

all of the blame on the system right his senses up they let him out what else could they have done? What I'll should they have done? Thank those are good. Questions are good topics, who debate I go back to his mom. Writing that letter saying hey my needs help he needs to be committed, but he's also forward forty one years old. So unless he I'll entirely commits himself and asked for help. What all can be done and I don't know the answers to that question to those questions as I have described rooms medication at sony's, good as him taking it daily as required right, but to be prescribed medication he again. He would have had to have sought out the help so outside of microwave.

Accident? I don't know who to put the blame. This guy obviously committed the crimes, but I dont want to discount his mental health issues either. Doesn't make it right what he did, but I do think he's a guy, was in desperate need of help. Yellowstone of he knew how much help he needed he may not have you may not have, but that's it for the story Michael Wayne, jackson, worry that you know when I saw it it kind of grabbed my attention. I was looking for a very unknown type of case. I think many people have covered this one. I don't think which means I don't think many people have heard about him. And to me it was a. It was an interesting one. I just think the police that day were just shocked on how fast the activity was moving.

try to keep up with words headed now. What happened to that person? Who did he take this time and that's that non, stop moving moving moving and they knew they had to get a hold of him some out before he hurt somebody else, wine and, I think movement from Indiana through Illinois into Missouri That has a lot to do with it right folks in indianapolis were searching for him. They're not can be searching for him and saint Louis Missouri, but then the authorities in Missouri. You know once they got wind of everything they had him. They thought they had him, they thought, but he was on the loose for eleven days. Just hiding out. and, like you said, probably had the wherewithal or the temper the ability to withstand that type of living off the grid,

more so than other people, because he had kind of already been doing it right. He was used to it gibbs who got some voicemails. You want check. Those out must check 'em out homemaking to be authentic and illinois, and I think, a really long time without caught. In an interview, doing well. I just wanted to say I realized tonight, while I was sitting here listening how long that I've actually been listening to you guys, um and I dunno. If I have ever said this, he wrote, but I found you an accident while looking for another podcast on youtube, while my app was down and once I started listening to you guys, I just like couldn't stop so um. I guess I started listening to guys like towards the end of my. In your year or the start of my senior year of high school and and yeah. Now I have my own place and I'm just living in a small town and working guy. We just got a cute little dog

where does a happy little family now I'm? But I just wanted you guys to know that, whether you know it or not, you've been there through pretty much every step of my young adult journey and I'm, I just hope, you guys continue to do what you do and not only is your podcast entertaining, but it's really helpful to wait. Raised awareness of cases I'm- and I hope you guys just have a wonderful rest of your week and keep your own time taking five. I love it very nice, voicemail yeah. I do know one for sure gibbs, as the podcast has gone on, we have started to skew bologna younger ought not skew but draw in some some younger listeners in here. That's that's great its gratifying to hear somebody say: hey you got me through something.

We're going on in my life for you that that always makes you and I feel good, and we get that there were no. The girl is it's very nice. I I give you my name's am I am from you and I'm a new listener. My friend recommended me because we both love to crime and I've been looking for a couple months away in a warehouse, and so I just listen to the paragraph nonstop all day and I believe in listening and order, so I'm away behind compared to how many other protocols have out, though, but I'm really excited to finish listening to all the case that you cover fun little back to actually line. I live in in utah, and so my friends dad actually went to school with one of ted bundy victim and he actually was her neighbor left from the little connection to a serial killer. For me, I'm in and also the same friend whose dad new ted Bundy's victim koenig name, is given

and we've collared give a sense like elementary school, and so as soon as I started listening, I thought it was so funny and I told her right away about you give me but anyways. I love the pod trash. Thank you guys so much for all the hard work that you do and all the riches that you do and stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Will you have to let her know? She needs to change name because it can only be one give yet. I just trademarked it trademark I'm always amazed by the connections. this killer that killer. You know my friends dad was. Sugar, mere, as is barber or you know whatever it is,

I can give you. This is a second attempt at a voice. Tell my name is italian, I'm calling from studying how born yeah and I'm going to thy absolutely love your podcast by our hilarious. Do the best you, oh and the best cried cried catherine had ever listen to. I can use to the city for work every day and a truly the best part of my day, striding entering on your part, past billy next hours, though by so bad, and I fear see before to It- am I also have a case. I can indeed, I don't know he might have looked into or heard of, I'm crystallise the colorado man, those networks documentary about it is called american murderer next door and it's kind of crazy stuff. It's actually insane

scary and interesting all at the same time. I think you guys would really do an awesome job covering that case and maybe like getting into the topic of family and I leaders and like why they do what they do. Ah, it's so crazy, so yeah. I just wanted to recommend that and leave you guys a voicemail and say I love you guys. So my I'm so grateful that I found your podcast as they draw you that you do thanks. Guys, keep your own time taken. While we appreciate it very much nice yeah, definitely aware of the the chris once case. I watch the flicks documentary with my family yo Chris wants is one of those gibbs that a lot of people request also a lot of one of those that a lot of people are hoping. We never do better from the standpoint of in there are quite a few cases like this, because so many different podcast had covered them and our audience tends to listen to a lot upon gallery here.

Some that have been I'll, say, overdone burnt out turn out, but there are people Let's say: okay, we want to hear your take on and I get that too. So, Chris watts daphne on the list, I'm sure we'll do that case. At some point, I guess. This is why we haven't is exactly what I just said. There are some cases that you have kind of stayed away from just because I feel like bodies doing them or everybody's done them, and I'm looking for something a little different and maybe time to pass before we give our take on that story, the same kind of goes with samuel little and- and you know there are some other ones I exactly, but we appreciate all the voice mouths gives. You had me berger call we sent Some gore may popcorn yeah that were excited I so we appreciate that it looks good. I body that is it

another episode of true crime, all the times from for mike and stay safe and keep your own time taken the. What was your deal with aquaman yeah? Why don't you like aquaman? It's not that I don't like aquaman yeah. I find it odd that you know out of all the superheroes you're batman

you're superman yeah, not even mentioning all the marvel characters. Your favorite is aqua me it's awful man. Do I don't know any bodies. whose family, by whose fate whose favorite superheroes awkward man can breathe, underneath water for long periods of time So can I with a scuba? whew I'm a superhero. I did like the loan rain me he's not superior he's, pretty cool yeas call yeah yeah mask ok is the head of a horse. He did trigger nothing. No, that was a very rogers on they had a horse and what is worse, but I gotta let alone ranger, but also man was monsieur hero man in an end. That's what makes you gibbey it is. It is

I mean you're. You are so far outside of the bar that I think you ve forgotten where the box is sometimes, but what a woman's prices were cool, regardless of what use their cool, bracelets man boom boom, are you talkin about wooer time were patron yeah, and you said that you were wonder woman. Well, because we're relight used. No, your exact words were, I am like wonder woman, and I said yes, you are because how can we really that angel towards Europe in short shorts. Now, because I, like thing snug and type yeah, oh shit gives africa to hit the bow