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one and welcome to episode ninety eight of the true crime, all the time podcast MIKE ferguson, a with me, as always, is my partner in true crime. Might gibson gimme what is when all what's happened, a man not magic, so by spilled water all over the friction. Ass, barely miss. My laptop you did well must had a catastrophe, I see sparks fly in air. What if it's shut the whole system down all of our research, everything that would be bad we'd still get through? Well, I think, if nothing else, you could just make it up as you go facts be damned exactly We want to say some information may or may not be correct in this what we think happened- and this is what we think, how it would have went down if we were there. Alright, let's give our patron shout outs. First, we had christie, Aaron Keller jumped out to our highest level thanks guys dynasty chris shell lockett dynasty, Dana Tracy, hey Dana Stacey taylor,

thank you. Stay Lauren, kelly trainer, Denise Callaghan jumped out I am a part yet callahan breaks, yeah, terry tog and then targeted. I'm not sure about that. One with that, though, we have a, we go, tt TT heather, brabble heather. Bravo le megan value. or value. If you wanna see fancy valet, she jumped out our highest level awesome. Thank you betty winter, eddie winter to mara, myers white jumped out our high level. That's affiliates or fancy name. It is fancy cow, gifford, paco amber pow. We know Amber thanks, amber coloured marsh, make I'll it. you megan caps, TIM heyward written just plant james can because he knows how to do it because you can do it gretchen here, furred cause he's always there for you

jumped out or high level here, lisa single lange saying allaying the coal barretta school, shane macartney say irish relate nepal, Kate, Alexander, jumped out or high level really thank you, Kate, as did donna words. She jumped out your eyes loathsome. Thank you die Nicole emmanuel Emmanuel meredith barrel here. Thank you, Dana tapir also Katie said elastic jumped out at our highest level, said Lasky, jessica robson. I thank you and timothy macau, trout thanks Timothy, so a lot of great support. We really appreciate that new support. I, like me, couch to you, like I love my couch yeah for sure, and we are jade all the people that continue to support us on patron month after month. So speaker that gives us go back into the vault

In this week we selected Chris Ryan, vigorous long time, supporter of the show so big shot up. We appreciate that and we had some pay pal support as well. We had here the belka belka and lina fogo, Ostrom or fogo strong. I like that. You like that to thank you very, very much very strong, very strong eye gives we have got a packed episode. It really packed jam packed, so we've got to get going diver. Let's talk about unsolved. Okay, we are talking about the monster of florence on true crime, all the time unsolved be a great episode. It is, it is gonna, be a to partner who it is his lot information and it it ITALY and it's in ITALY, so our florence foodie coop is going to eat that it is the yeah I'd say, have lawrence a foodies shall be the very happy and the.

can be a lot of bad chef birdie by you. Yes, I'll, try to correct. As we were aiming along through the processor, now also want to tell you I'll criminology season for is out right now. Man already just started: and what we're doing this season is a series of cases all solved in two thousand and eighteen, but all solved using dna and forensic genealogy, the type of things that they used to solve the east, airy, rapists, cakes, and so These are there's gonna, be some really good episodes so check that out and don't forget the new t cat nature in the store right now. There are cool there very cool here they

into an envelope, so shipping is included in the price and make sure you check those out. I carry one in my pocket at all times. You should do to make sure you don't lose your keys or somebody, but I mean yeah, ok, just to give your keys and anchor yeah alright gibbs I'm going to do something different, I'm going to start out by playing a couple of clips. We haven't done that in a long time, but I feel It makes sense in this case was diver monster, control This is beyond my control come on. I don't mean to be so: you're hearing sean Vincent gillis talk and he says gibbs does the word monster come to mind, he's talking about himself

yeah then he caught calls himself a homicidal maniac, and this guy was he was extremely brutal. your serial killer that operated for almost a decade. In and around baton rouge louisiana. so we're down and lose anna. We do again here. He confessed to murdering eight, where men during this time, but he was not alone and what will talk about this as the episode progresses, but back room had multiple serial killers including derek Todd Lee operating during this time in the sheer number of different killers, made it very difficult for authorities but gillis, stalked, tracked murder,

Third mutilated dismembered is victims, he committed necrophilia and he even consumed parts of some of his victim. So he runs the game. He did it all me we're talking about necrophilia, cannibalism. This guy was. something else, and I can't believe gibbs that he's not more well known. Any is right. You know, I've talked about that. What somebody truly infamous and I'm shocked at, This guy is not more emphasis than he really not, but you would have you after you hear this view Thank you would have thought he would hear you and authority. He wouldn't be so obvious painting the picture here that this is a bad guy, and he is this a guy that a prosecutor in his trial would a true serial killer for the Madrid

any of his murderers. He targeted sex workers. Drug attics anyone who, in his mind, would not be missed by society. Any didn't target women of just one race. He murdered both caucasian cage, an african american women. So that again, couple that, with the the number of serial killers operating in this space In this time. All of that made an extremely hard for investigators. Gillis was a sexual deviate and his murderers would show the evidence of that. So, let's get into his childhood gibbs you and I love to start their sean vincent gillis was born june. Twenty four, Nineteen sixty two in batten ruse Louisiana two norman and VON gillis his Other norman left the family when Sean was only a year old

he was in and out of mental institutions for most of his life suffered from alcoholism. This all his father. Nor yet any didn't come tat the family again until sean was seventy, so he was gone for essentially his entire upbringing. This left his mother, yvonne to re, shone on her own and she doted on him and did what seems to me gives to be a pretty good job of raising him as a single parent. She took him to visit his father's parents on a regular basis, just so that he could develop a good relationship with them. So this is not a serial killer that we're going to be talking about who had an unbelievably bad childhood yeah. He did grow up without his father, but he wasn't beaten,

He didn't have some of the same childhood trauma that we talk about in allowed these killers in nineteen. Seventy one shot about nine years. Old yvonne was able to move them. your home in a nicer neighborhood in battle. Merge. The problem is what you haven't thought about her sunshine can what others not in the neighborhood about him. They were completely different. She either didn't see. do the same things that they saw because he wasn't presenting or she just had blinders on in the end. That can happen. Right then sure that happens to parents. They don't see what other people see sometimes, but she thought he hung the moon. She thought he as a very sweet kid, but other people that knew him as a boy? They said he was very strange until the point gives them.

Other kids in the neighborhood. They stayed away from him as much as they could. Now. He did have a couple of close friends. Then he hung out with so again we're not talking about the kid or guy that say. Complete loner, as we do in a lot of the cases that we profile gillis with later tell police that when he was around twelve years old, he tried to kill us female cousin. In the reason, the heavy toll believes that he did. This was because he wanted to feel her breasts. So that's pretty extreme number. One be trying to feel your cousins brass. Let us put that out there, the that's, that's not good, but the thought in his head. Is I'm going to miss or her show that I can do it s not good resided at all, not at all sean didn't go to public school, his mother.

was adamant about sending him to catholic school and she worked hard you know she was a single mother. She worked hard to take care of sean and get the money together to send him. He was an average student body in his mother. Had this completely different view of shaw, she thought he was broke. Yeah. He was the smartest kid in school. I don't know how you quite that, with the port card that comes in the mail that you're looking, but this is what she thought When John was seventeen, his paternal grandfather passed away, and this is what brought his father, norman back into his life in the two would begin to develop a relationship that will be tough. Sixteen years and all of a sudden, you like, hey, doubtless, hang out so give us graduated from high school kid.

community college for a while he drifted through numerous convened. The store jobs. That's basically for most of his life. That's what he would be is a clerk at various convenience stores, but he also developed a pension for pornography in the early nineties, Sean's mother moved to georgia for a job What did John to go with her, but do you want to go so? He stayed living in her house and ban ruse. She even agreed to Caen, Can you paying the mortgage on the house on top of that she gave him extra money. The house was described as us all one story house, with pink tram in a neighborhood was made up of a combination of working class people answer

It means from Louisiana state university. So they live pretty closed. Alice you to the campus, but then you get in to what people thought about sean gill around the neighbour right he's older now, but the thoughts about him really haven't changed from the time that he was a boy. Your people thought he was strange, even as he get into adulthood. Neighbors said gibbs that he would cause at people as they drove buying their cars. He would bang on people's doors late at night. He would make outrageous claims like he invented. The question mark Really. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy just because they're laying there you know that's from austin powers, go. I thought for sure you'd get that one. I didn't get that one now. He didn't do those last two things, but he was arrested by police, for

just one night being out in front of his house banging on garbage cans. And when the arresting officer asked him why the hell he was banging on garbage cans. He answered because I don't have a girl. Ok now that was his room. I think this is why he was so upset because he didn't have female companionship also caught peeping in the window of a young female neighbour, and I think this So is something that differentiates sean. Give ass from a lot of the other killers that we talk about, he didn't have really like a twenty year rap. He had very minor offences. I think he was arrested, ones for criminal trespassing. He may be had some traffic by nations, but that was really about it. He didn't I having long criminal history but is

there's gone in georgia. He has this house to himself she giving him extra money in it. obsession with pornography deepens as we get into the nineteen nineties in this work well open to a very serious computer pornography addiction, we have major ramifications later in life. It was said that you, he would skip work days. Just sit at home on his computer. Looking at and this had to be gibbs back in the aol days. Imagine dial up for sure you would take hours just to get one picture to come up. That's what I've been too no, I dont have first hand knowledge of that, but you back in the ninety. I think you can do.

back in the nineties. You know is much different than today with the with the dial up you're much happier today. Am I not because a bad but yeah so gillis began a relationship with a woman named terry lemoine in ninety ninety four, a friend introduce the too and they quickly yellow it all they bonded over. Their shared b of collecting all rock albums. Apparently they both love star trek. Maybe they went to summit tracking conventions. I don't know Maybe they were there with you gibbs and you were wearing your full spock outfit. Well, some about pointed ears. Man, I've seen you in it, don't deny that you have a spark outfit and that you go to the star trek conventions

This is a klingon on true, but I guess I've seen relationships gives that are built on less than that. At least they had some shared interests. Its true wicker varies: that's a shared interest yeah very special, but both gilson le moyne were loners, and I think this is something that also drew them together. Gillis began, murdering and ninety. Ninety four, which I really find strange because to me It seemed ass, though, in the past he was like. I said he was very upset about the fact that he didn't have a love in his life. He didn't have a woman in his What now all of a sudden he finally gets? One has a girlfriend terry. and now he's gonna start murdering. I found it very on his first victim, was eighty one year old and brian

eighty one years old or can you imagine and we're going to see it as we go through the victim dry art? I talked about the fact that he didn't if the type rate, whether was skin color, nope, didn't matter to him age range as a matter either I mean it's gonna span near the game it his first victim is eighty one years old and brian lived in a baton, rouge, assisted living facility called ST james place straight out of monopoly. It is isn't it yeah, it's one of the purple ones notes orange is an orange ST james place. He has orange. That is that, it's one of the three properties. One of the three know it was a group of three. Some of them are groups of threesome or groups of two. Almost all of them are groups of three zephyr park place the blue ones those are the two right and then the right around the corner. The law

I whenever they are light purple or light blue. Those are two. Those are the only ones that are too well. That's up twenty percent of the board. That's not ten percent of the board! That's wanted those two things yeah, it's one of those triples one of those dry factors, but this st james place where she lived. It was right across the street from the convenience store where gillis work. It was just blocks from where he lived so gillis. In Her residence early on the morning of march- twentieth with the intent to

rape, eighty one year old and bright, but things went south very quickly because, as he started to touch her, she began screaming and he freaked out. He panicked and slid her throat to stop her from screaming as this wrong when all things wrong sure yeah, but I mean I gosh when an f think annexes sexual assault and and sure it's all wrong, it's all wrong sure, but but sexual assault of an eighty one year old woman, and then he slits her throat, but that wasn't it no after he did daddy, stabbed hurry slashed her upwards of. Maybe fifty times before, leaving her body there to crime scene and there's no doubt

an extremely vicious attack. This woman gibbs was almost both decapitated, an dissembled as how brutal this thing, wantonness nasty man I mean seriously, and it was said that he focused much of the the knife attack on her breasts and general, so that not random. That is going back to you know what I said this guy's a sexual deviant. You don't just happen to be stabbing and and hit the breast and gen and genitals right that just doesn't happen. You were doing that on purpose for a specific reason. Most cases it's some type of sexual gratification. India so he's committed, is first murder. He and terry Lemoine moved indigo

in nineteen ninety five and it didn't take long for tarried to start having concerns with his back savior number one. He drank a lot and was worried about his obsession in with pornography, so he had a couple of addictions. He did you know at least a couple yeah, but it wasn't just pornography right. It wasn't just pictures of naked women This was pornography centred around rate. Centred around death, violent pornography. very, very violent, and she saw this he actually showed her pictures and she was the sky. Stood by them, but probably didn't they

anything more of it. Then I don't like that. I'm not sure why he likes it but whatever, but to me that's a pretty major red flag. I would think more about you gibbs that's a huge red flag for me. It we were to have to see you're significant other looking kind of stuff. Think that's what turns them on rape and death. Yeah really difficult. You know it's hard enough to deal with other dixons. You know I mean it Alcoholism is whatever more ever drug addiction like that, but the third this on top of It- and it can be a real addiction, pienaar pornography no you people did wealthier programme. People can really spiral, I'm not afraid to use your keyboard anymore. I feel so good. Now another red flag to me that the comes out is that apparently, Sean didn't want to have sex with terror, with some reports say, they only had it a few times during their

tire relationship. It's gotta be some type of flag, red magenta magenta higher than yellow, but not rare, just new maroon burgundy just go read cinnamon. Now we're getting run out of run out of colors yeah, but you also have to think how much of that is because of his edition The pornography each probably getting his release that way, which is decreasing his interest in sex. I don't know that for fact, but I'm theorizing for a few years after they moved in together. He was somehow able to tear down his. Homicidal actually sadistic urges but thou all change and ninety ninety nine. But it's about five years between his first murder and

his second terry lemoine work. The night shift in that gave sean plenty of time to hunt for vote, comes, and it was in january of ninety nine key targeted and murdered, twenty nine year old, catherine hall catherine, was a sex worker that gillis lured into his car for oral sex, once she was in the car as he learn. How do you learn whenever all sex. I don't know how you were there: A word on me. How you were you must learn lure lure efficiently leah how you gonna, lower and lower did I stated earlier. I was being fancy now does not So how do you sure? Why don't I maybe I'm using the wrong word, because I thought you dislike take one dollar bill, lick it and stick it to the one chilled the window and they see it and this okay. How would you have to lick it to get it? The sick

Why are you gonna get this guy you're right, maybe maybe I'm using the wrong word. It probably wasn't that hard for four gillis to get her into the car. That's what she's out, therefore, yeah I mean that's what she's trying to do is Two you'll meet some. Why does catapult out from when they pay yeah you're right? I probably use the wrong word me. You said it totally jacked up but other than that world, but once she got into the car gillis put- plastic, zip, tie around her neck and tightened it until she was dead. And this is gonna, be his preferred method of killing straw regulation by zip tie not a bad method, not at all, but when I think about it it gives me the shivers yet cause you so you can buy the industrial zip ties right the wider, will thicker longer ignoring Eric and already have it ready. So I do support over the head

and you gotta get want hard yank and there's no backing off of it. That in that's, that's why it's so scared yeah once is on, and you pull hard enough even if they get away. They're gonna have a bit of a time. You could die just running away yeah if it was tired gunnar kinda me that movie here we go, but would the brad at the very end he's walking down the street and somebody comes up. jargon behind of, and puts this, this wickham machines uptight over errors or his head, and it has all motor keeps cranking cranking grey. In crank and cranking, and it's closing down on his throat and and there's nothing you can do you can't stop. It has little motor in it as you're, going to pick an actor who's made eight thousand movies and say in this. Yea plays like american drug transporter tap a guy

middle man. I have no idea. You know, you know what it's called a scotch Cameron d, as in it as the drug woman. People screaming homes and they she does love it. what what's, the spanish gaddi, he was in No, no man for all countries, lobby, air bardell, yes, have I was in it. I don't know what it is: all were fast gender based better. He was the main character, so no eight thousand people that are in it, but I have no clue what movies got remember the name of a movie, but on that then brad pitt gets this like fancy. Mechanical zip tie around his neck and all he does a bigger. There was a private slips it over in its the button and it on a mac research cranking when I use pulled that now now there's no. I liked him many endings to the movie. This is one of the things that happened, but it is,

oh scary, to think about yeah, because you think I mean yeah industrial, but even just take a regular old, zip tie. You know how hard those things are to break. Like a broken, I'm I'm saying you re a normal person, a person without special abilities. Do We must try one on your neck, no not doing that, but keys on freaked out swiftly. beginning lubbers, grandma clip at all. I mean you, I gotcha literally filled with anxiety, think about it, but you know exactly because it doesn't matter, man he's gonna pull as hard as he can This applies gonna. Do all the work at that point, and once again, to a certain point there, like, like you, said, there's no return. No, it's done while we're gonna be talking about zip ties. Quite a bit gillis stab catherine sixteen times prior, two or death. While she was being strangled with zip tie and thence, After many more times after she was dead. He removed her clothing.

And mutilated her body and he dumped her body near a dead inside, and this is some the prosecutors later on are gonna theorize? That was a game, was part of a game to him like it meant something right. pick a dead in sign to leave the spot ma hunter founded the very next day, but police would find a pubic hair in catherine's mouth, That would prove invaluable years later. I gives let's take a quick break and talk about simply say you know,

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targeted her one day when he saw her out running. I even gives it. She had run the boston marathon. Really s or she was a you. Pretty big I'm runner! If I didn't think about run a marathon, I get the sweats just say the words marathon here's what now, so he tore in her on this. One day saw her running, but then he began stalking her four weeks ahead. It was at the end of the month may thirty, eight weeks later, she's out for a run in there's no way that she could have known that a serial killer was stalking. Her again talk about scary. These are scary things so gills driving in his car, and he decides that he's gonna run hardy schmidt down. He hid her with his car and knocked her into a ditch too,

after hitting or with the car, he got out very easily overpowered her. She just been hit by a car here tied one of his zip ties around her neck and strangled her. He put her into the trunk of his car drove to an isolated area where he removed her clothing and raped her. He put his dead body back in the trunk and apparently he left it there overnight, and there were even reports that He was driving his girlfriend terry around in the car, with the dead body in the trunk. and she made some comments about a smell smells in here and he I d covered up by saying I think he'd hit a banana more some like that. I had a skunk this mornin baby, but the very next day he dumped schmidt's body. into a by you in Saint James perish, and it was this. over the day after that gillis murdered is fourth victim. Thirty six,

ro, Joyce Williams on November twelve nineteen. Ninety nine, he picked up williams, who was a sex worker and again killed by tightening a zip tie around her neck, this every murder, it's with zip, both because it's working it its it was very effective for him. Don't go changin if its work and to say that I'm saying, though, what no I get, what you're saying a killer is not going. Jane job or the they probably are knocking change up. What works for them act is when they do change things up a lot of times that they get caught right exactly after him. Williams. He brought her body back to the house that he shared with lemoine. This is the first time that he had brought one of his victim, back to his house. Then he proceeded gibbs to cut off parts of her body cut off her nipples, which he ate K so

he is progressing very quickly, upping his viciousness his sadistic ness. Whatever I want to I would now he's into mutilation now he's into cannibalism rocket. because he's already been in the necrophilia. Where would you go that step? There's, probably not much. You know, you're not turn around Well, you're, probably moving forward with whatever else is on the chart: you're not going straight. You know after that, you're looking for what else is going to heighten this. Sexual thing that I'm looking for here, but I don't know where you go from there. he's gonna he's gonna go go, go he he mutilated other parts of her body. He cut off flesh. He ate dad as well, eventually benchley dumped her body in eyebrow, where hunters stumbled upon her severed

leg bout. This was january, twenty second, two thousand on the bank of the mississippi so's about two months later that they found her leg bone. The hunter called police police found the rest of her body about seven hunter. feet away from where the leg bone was not too far away. No, not too far away, but imagine yourself as a hunter. You relax you're walking through the woods all of a sudden. You see a leg bone, yeah freak. You out. In january, two thousand gillis claimed its fifth victim. This time it was, did two year old, lillian robinson lily and was a sex worker gillis picked her up stuff. Angled her with the zip tie and took her back to his house. But apparently this time he didn't he

have the time he needed to do with her body what he had done to his previous victim, because his girlfriend terry was scheduled to get off work soon. He had just enough time in his words, to play with her dead body and he would admit later that may put his penis in her mouth. He committed sexual acts with her dead body, gillis, took them we dumped it in a swampy basin and low. The UN's body was discovered a few months later in march in october, two thousand he murdered or six victim. This was thirty eight year old, marilyn novels. Again she was a sex worker who he got into his car, with the premise that they were going to have sex, or some type of sexual act, he strangled her with a zip tie. Dumped her body

by the mississippi river in back rooms. Just a few miles from his house, her body was found later that month on halloween. No one ever report marilyn novels missing said it is sad that really is- and I am not just talking about within a few days no one would ever know what happened to her for four years and two sean gillis ultimately confessed to her murder, for you There's gibbs went by no one. Mr no one missed her, no one reported her missing. But again this goes back to sean gillis for the money worthy of his victims in he said this looked for. People that he fell would not be missed. That's that were his words after the murder of maryland novels gillis took a three year break from killing. That's a pretty long time, and it is a long time. First,

serial killer, especially one with the type of you sadistic sexual needs that this guy seems to have. Now we haven't profile dare tardily yet, but I know we will he's been our list gibbs for a very long time. His name's come up in a few of the unsolved ones we done it has yet we talked about it before, but we haven't done for full episode on him. He operating during much. At the same time, the gillis was- and it's been reported- that sean gillis was a fan of his work me. He went as far as to save new. Paper articles on the murders committed by lee on his computer. So he was studying what Lee was doing They would come out later that he was determined not to be outdone by Derek Todd Lee, so it's almost like he was keeping

gore and he d wasn't lose so I need is a handful serial killers in the same area, same time, china I'll do each layer exactly does not is not a good recipe. There's multiple serial killer, is operating. There are a lot of women in the area over this timeframe that turn up dead, so they create a task force. and eventually they do arrest derrick derek Lee in may of two thousand three and it helped com the community, because I think this pressing the beginning, they thought he had killed a lot of these women which he did kill. A lot of women yeah, but what the community could know was that again he was just one of several serial killers on the loose at that time, and once authorities figured out that lead didn't commit.

All of the murders they knew they still had at least one serial killer out there and one of those were sean gillis and he would strike two more times before he was caught. Gillis murdered forty five year old, Johnny may Williams and october two thousand three She was a mother of three that turned a sex work in order to provide for a family. But what strange about this one guy is that gillis had known williams for years, sometimes paid her to clean his house. Yes, yes, knowledge about. Her is gonna linked to her. That's normally not something that is very smart when it comes to serial killers, picking out their victims. Picked williams up in his car one night drove to a secluded location and proceeded to be raped and strangle. Her begin killed her with a zip tie.

Strangulation, but after she was dead he mutilated her corpse with a knife, any cut off her hands. Then he took her body imposed it and various positions and took a bunch of photographs crazy yeah because over their alps amount planes his house for money right, she's he's paying her but bates talked about in a lot of the articles that they were friendly towards each other. Maybe they smoked we'd together from time to tighter or whatever they knew each other than the eighth and final victim of sean gillis was a woman named donna Bennet Johnston, Johnston, Forty three year old divorce, mother, five since february, twenty six, two thousand for on gillis is dry,

having around his car he searching for a victim when he sees donna Johnston on a street corner. She was intoxicated and she got inside the car. The two of them discussed prices for different sexual act, but it wouldn't go in further than that. His intent was not sex. It was murder, he strangled donna with a zip tie. He drove to a secluded area were moved oliver clothing. He slashed her body with a knife and used to cut off one of your nipples. Then he took the night gibbs any cut out a tattoo that was on her right. I just wanted to keep their. He literally cut

well the tattoo the tattoo, but then goes a step further and removes her left arm at the elbow. What a weird thing to do with all of it's weird, but it gets weirder right, because it's reported that he took the arm with him and he used it later to masturbate with the arm. Is the they have. That's really weird, but we know we serial killers. Take trophies. We know they. They liked to relive what they die, and you know this is what he was doing by doing this was reliving, it all yeah, absolutely what he was doing. We've seen it before yeah, he took other souvenirs. He took a blanket a belt and earring that belong to Donna, now police would I dna under Johns His fingernails on her right hand, cassettes

and when she had laughed he cut the left one off and this dna their later going to be able to match to sean gills. But other thing they founded. The scene was probably just as important. They found some tire tracks where damas body was found. which was in a drainage canal about a mile south of the l s? U campus, not far from l S? U at all in these tire tracks, they're going to be crucial in identifying who killed Donna Johnston. So this task force I talked about on the case they are starting to close in on gills number one, they got some really good evidence. Now they ve got the tire tracks. They ve got some hair that was collected fraud to the victims, which they were able to dna from they were able to get dna from under Donna's fingernails,

So not only are they going to identify a killer, also linking these murders together right, as the dna is all going to point to the same person. So they test all this dna. But unfortunately it doesn't match anyone in the system. So now, it's really of no use to them until they find out who it matches tourist suspect that that they're going to try to match up to mix. right. Now they just got dna, but no, no bite the matter with an that, but that's where the tire tracks come in. They were determined to be tyres made by good year. And they were not huge sellers. They were only made for a few years, and this was a big break right. If it was a higher. That was made for ten years and it was all all around,

Contrary arms ehler tops yell be much harder. This was not a big seller, so authorities worked with good year to get a list of those If a tired that had been sold in the bat and rouge area- and they were they narrowed down there, they got to as they started, narrowing down of people that had purchased those tyres. They got it down the ninety sean was number twenty six on that list out of ninety out of ninety, so they start contacting people on the list trying to get a dna sample and they do interview sean gillis and, of course he nice murdering anyone, entire ass, though possibly angel lack. Are there. And from those tries it appears

He was and the show is not loaded for my vehicle, so he's not giving it up right at that point, but he did make a bunch of statements to police that were very suspicious He talked about reasons why he might, been in the area where they found her body in other strange things. Like that, so they're very suspicious and but they don't have enough to hold it. So they had to let him go, but they were worried right. They really thought this was the guy in the thought ok, we're gonna! Let this guy go and he's gonna do some mouse, but The dna evidence came back and it was a positive matched to sean gills. So now police are certainly know they had their man. Sean

was was arrested in the early morning, hours of April, twenty nine two thousand and four as a swat team that they used to raid his house, and he pretty much gave up without incident. I don't know what the hell you're gonna do up against the swat team, but exactly was in bed with terry when they busted in so he was taking them by surprise. A little bit yeah, he was still probably they were asleep, could be like you morning. Person. That's true. I am not a morning person not tear, I'm goin would say that she was shocked Firstly, that a swat team was in their house, but she has said that sean simply turned to her and said: I'm sorry. anybody disciple patient. Just like pop fiction, that's exactly what I thought of I'm sorry, honey, bunny and then an officer to her hey, didn't you know you were living with a serial killer, so she had to be floored

about a bad morning, a bad bad way to wake up. Terrible man have someone buster Nor will not only that, but then tell you that the man that you living. Where is this unbelievable sadistic serial killer, so gills was booked on three counts of first a reminder: murder and three counts of ritualistic listing, in the deaths of catherine hall, Johnny may Williams in Donna bennet johnson, and he would confessed to killing these three women, but he wouldn't stop there. You're after he was captured. He started talking to police in this was against his attack Please be a man. Advice gives to not talk to police ever ever. however, his attorney is telling him do not talk to police is achieved, he's been quoted as saying he insisted on confessing,

said he did not want me in the room. While he was talking to the cops I told him. He was crazy and apparently gillis said back to him. I don't know if I'm crazy or not, but this is what I want to do. His attorney would go to say the gillis was goofy and I'd, but that he was in intelligent and articulate, but he also said gibbs that he had serious doubts about whether gillis was wrapped real tight. Those were his exact words. Just wrapped up tight, he's, not sure he's wrapped roll tide- oh not yet, not wrapped, rotate yeah. This that's how he put it shopping for beauty, acts in a store that so twenty twenty two. What if you could fill your entire make up job with the hottest products of twenty twenty? Three with out leaving your house me etsy ip asked why, with it see you get five new beauty products a month worth over fifty dollars, but etsy is only thirteen dollars. Gotta rapeseed outcome: that's ip

as y dot com to join today new year new you new beauty products from Ipsy the best kept secret and beauty join. Now at I p s y dot com, who's ready for a gripping new police drama, that's anything but by the book based on the new york times, best selling series special agent, we'll trend methods are unconventional and his personal lives more than a little complicated, but he's got the highest rate George, a bureau of investigation for a reason, wilkins crack a case like nobody else see crime through his eyes. Ramon rodriguez and Erika christians and star, and will Trent tuesdays ten nine central on a b c and stream on hulu show as give us was talking with police. He detailed out how he plodded the murders and how he tried to play games with people number the

six sound way downtown, so you. We're gillis. He takes a huge swig of coffee to start out with, and he says four five, six seven. I don't count them just like so off the caf yeah, I'm just going to tick them off with my fingers. This is Many women are murdered, so please get a warrant, they search his house and they find a ton of evidence he found a number of pictures on his computer of some of his victims. There were pictures of Alan Johnston's mutilated body as well as pictures of her dead body in his trunk. So again, he's trying to that's a souvenir right he's taking pictures so that he can read live that moment? They found pictures of johnny may williams dead body and they also found a

a very large number of sharp cutting instruments, saws, knives, all kinds of stuff like that, on top of that, they found the clippings on d todd Lee and they found a very violent pornography on his computer. So you know they pretty much got this guy right is, do they got a journey and aid in a matches he's got pictures of these dead when, to the very next day he confessed to killing eighty one year old and brian back in ninety. Ninety four, which we talked about that was his first murder and he admits two stalking in killing. Fifty two year old, hardy schmid, In nineteen I mean I give you know, we ve profile some cases in the past, where killers confessed murders that they didn't do right. They might have killed

three and the next thing you know it's ten to try to up it right there, trying to up it they're, trying to confess to things that they didn't do it's something that the authorities have to be very careful with but apparently you gillis had all the details in space We like in the murder of an brian. He gave them details that only the killer could have known and the authorities were shocked by some of the things that he revealed. He talked about showering with some of the the dead women's. Bodies he spoke about, painting the fingernails of johnnie Mae Williams, hand that he cut off, so he took her hand with him and painted the fingernails. I told you this is a sick puppy. That is a sick. One now said, apparently confess

to his girlfriend forty six year old, terry lemoine of the murders after he was caught right not before, but after he was caught, she be counted for papers some of their conversation. I guess she asked him if he was sorry that he did this and he said yes, then she asked him. How could you killed these three women? This is read this from the very beginning. When he's only confessed to three and he replied, if not three honey, it's eight and apparently she fell to the floor. Crime may give us what the hell you do in that situation. How would you react if you're significant other has just told you? They really did murder. Eight people? Do you think she didn't know about it? I mean I don't know I don't know. I think there were some signs whether she picked up on them are now. That's it. That's a different story right.

the oder in the cars are driving the near the pornography. Even though, was extremely violent, and you know focused on rape and death, and I dont know that you're gonna day, you might think that straight That might be somebody. I want to end a relationship with your problem I can say this person's out killing people much true, sir, like it that for us I dont think I'd want to shower farm it sure which order no say in what order. You know any good, some hurt her because you trust this person live with them. You may just the range of emotions. You'd have right, I mean you said, trot loyalty all that would be out the door all of it everything you believed in forever was one

ten years a few months, the betrayal of that would just be crushing, then down and then and then you have the morn for the lake, the people that he yeah, so gillis was initially charge with the murders of Donna Johnston. Catherine hall joy, Williams, hardy schmidt in an brian you'd, eventually be charged with two of the. Three remaining women. He confessed to killing so he's away, and try any roadie, sir these of letters in june and July after his arrest to a friend Donna Johnston named Tammy. Prepare in these are letter that are going to be used against him later trial, because in the letters He said he was sorry for murdering eight women. He said that he was pure evil, but he gave details about the murder of jobs

stating she was so drunk it only. About a minute and a half to succumb to unconsciousness and then death Last words, were I can't breathe. Other ladder. He wrote. I still puzzle over the post mortem dismemberment and cutting There must be something deepen my subconscious that needs that kind of mc cobb action are we don't know, what might damage is legal I want to say in the letter before tenure ago. I now we're. So much is imagined harming anyway, so he does express some regret that gives, I dont know how genuine it is, but I ask: don't get writing a letter to the friend of a man you murdered and essential.

Detailing out parts of you know how the murder occur, get it either, but I guess he's already confessed to it. So maybe thought what the hell, what the heart down of his. If he's actually apologizing more than just not one of these apologizing, but he does say that he feels bad about it, and I think he said that terry too. But again I don't know how much that stuff is real. With these killers, I dunno, if he felt like he like, I feel kind of bad about it It's like that not like you know she broken down shaken up by it and he's like you know, because a lot of these guys don't have the ability to really feel that now we not hinder its not in their there make up. You know he's not he's saying just generically. I feel I feel bad and a lot of times. I think when, when they say that what really saying is: I'm sorry. I got caught year it

more so than saying, I'm sorry for my actions, I'm so dad I'm locked up amana! Thank you. if he was in a room with the friend and you gave him a zip tie, he'd use it. I agree with you because I think he even said something to that effect in one of the interviews with police that if he were to walk out today, he would be looking for his next victim or something in your life those lines after he already knew he was caught here. So is set for multiple trials for his murderers. But there is a big issue to saddle- and that was around his confessions, because his defence team argued that gillis had said at one point during the police interviews. then he should probably have an attorney present, and so they argued that anything. He said after that point should be

admissible, essentially saying he asked for an attorney. You should have shut down the interview right in an there now. Please would counter that he just kept talking would they weren't asking him any more questions? It is kept talking but in the end the judge ruled that the confessions were admissible and that the jury would hear them. So he first face trial for the murder of Joyce Williams, but just before that trial was set to begin, he pleaded guilty to second degree. Murder. This is august. Two thousand seven. He was given a mandatory life's in an apparently at this and he told the judge- I strangled Joyce Williams and she died decipher because we always say just like I went out gotta peter yeah, I'm a thousand, are well here. I am she ate a pizza then hit me down on the way home does what is still a man. This is what it is now talking about. You

seems like a lot of food. Now mandatory date, but here's the rub gibbs so deeply to guilty, but is guilty plea, had a candy into it. It was made on the condition that he be allowed to appeal. The decision by the judge to allow the jury to hear about it, fashions that he said were made after he asked for an attorney site. I think this was his plan or his defence attorneys plan plead guilty is always they give you this condition that allows you to appeal that that judges ruling, because if he successful in in that appeal he gets a new trial. In this time he wouldn't plead guilty right because the jury, would not be allowed to hear his confession. But luckily it doesn't happen. A year later in a pellet court upheld the guilty. Plea upheld the ruling by the judge. So next

He's gonna go on trial for the murder of donna Bennet Johnston. It took six weeks to see the journey which seems like a staggering amount of time to me. Gibbs. I don't know how long normally takes to see day, jury and a big murder trial. Six weeks seems like a long time. seems like a really long time. The trial, began on July, twenty first, two thousand eight and the jury. You found him guilty of first degree: murder. Five days later strongly lasted five days, jury deliberated for about three and a half hours. Again, I'm not going heavy the trial, because we already know all of the evidence they have against him. It's insurmountable prosecution was seeking the death penalty, but the jury was deadlocked on sentencing and so jealous ended with a life sentence with no chance of pearl

there was a reporter named Josh, know well that had to testify in this trial and the reason is this because he didn't interview in two thousand for with gillis where sean told him that he had killed the eight when so, he was compelled to testify in the trial against them. What you did I don't know they had so much evidence to me. It sound like a slimmed down near you think for sure. Now, the next year in early two thousand nine gillis plead guilty to first degree. Murder. Ah marilyn novels He received another life sentence, and later on this year, the Louisiana supreme court. They refused to hear his appeal This issue of his confession: in his murdered out of Joyce waves. The went all the way up to the Louisiana Supreme court, but they they wouldn't hear it, and we talked about

and being charged with seventy eight murders which he was, but he only tried and convicted on three then need to try on all of them well he's already got what three licences year mean. So why go through all the expense? when you reach out to the families, and most families would honours, stand if he explained the right way. You know that he's never gonna get out he's never going to paroled yeah mean if his licences was life with no parole so but then you had to other licences. On top of that, he's never get now. he's currently serving out his time at the louisiana state penitentiary, but we talked about other serial killers, rain, two thousand eleven Jeffrey legally. He who was a northern serial killer who operated in the same area. At the same time, that gives us in Lee did he was on trial.

His defence team asserted that was shown gillis that was responsible for a number of the murders for which guillory had been charge but gives, I guess that's gonna, happen, rightly town kind of touch on earlier when you have that number of serial killers. breeding in the same space. At the same time, when I read one article that said in the past twenty years, seventy People in and around ban rouge have been killed by what they believe to be four or five different serial killer, and it's a lot. It really is. People think climb is bad and I'm sure there's a word, I'm sure the numbers, probably even higher yeah, that that they just don't even really know about while so gives. We talked a little about terry lemoine and Her shock at the news that are boyfriend was a serial killer, but I read that

she still lives in that same house, where some very gruesome stop took place, and she still owns sean's car that was used to transport. a number of his victims bodies yeah. Well, you know somebody out there would buy that car. I or you mean for the memorabilia factor, probably yeah. There are some collectors that would buy it. I just I that my thought you I think I would be looking to move on yeah of the house yeah. Well, I wouldn't be, living in the place. Where I know my boyfriend murdered multiple people or brought their bodies back to after they were dead and showered with them have sex with them, cut them up the abbe be out,

what a casino deal, but maybe she gaining and sell the house while that's true, but but then again you know I'm saying those people ass to have new data. I made one asleep their name out there, but the one thing the terry has said in in interviews is never thank. You know everything about anybody, never can be a true statement. I think it's a very true statement. Act, You're gonna know what they want you to know or what they want. You do perceived to no right. but will you ever know everything cause? I know In fact I don't know everything about you, and if I did it would probably you just scratched the surface melt me down into a ball in the corner. Wheezing, you just crashed you just scratched the surface as about it, but I think even husband and wives as close as they think they are. They don't know everything, probably not Most has why why boyfriend girlfriend? Whatever I don't know if they really know everything they think they know so gives. I want to read

this episode up talking about the victims and their families right a lot of the case- that we profile involve victims that were sex workers or drug users. These are victims that authorities often for two as leading a high risk lifestyle, and there were victims that you had some of these same trades in case and you- and I have said many times that no matter what, but these are still people that were victims of violent crimes. Regardless of what type of things you know, they were doing What was going on their lives in the research. I found some articles about these women and their families. We tie tests fact that many had children and use some of these children spoke out after their deaths about what great mother

They were especially when they were younger before they got, let you know maybe hooked on drugs or they got into the sex industry sex work. Some of these children found out those aspects of their their mothers only after their death, when the newspapers and television started reporting on some of them didn't know right what what there with them Others had been doing right, Donna Johnston's children. Now they were aware of her drug use and they said overtime. She and fading in and out of their lives, but they loved her and they tried time after time to get her. Help now think is tough when people have gin and you try to as their loved ones. You wanna help them, but sometimes he might pushing

because you're overly helping- and I think that you know they fill they feel like there. Let you down, point to so than they turn their back on. You Why is yours keep chasing the circle? You know yeah and I think when people don't want help, you can't help it's tough yeah and then there were. There were stories from some of the kids about running after their moms and saying you know, mom, don't leave, don't go, buy drugs mean, unfortunately, it's a big thing in our country. You know, addiction is probably everywhere it's it's horrible, yeah yeah and I just and it seems to be getting worse. Well, yeah, I mean you know: the street or so easily available, pretty inexpensive, so decide it's not what you a tip. We see. You know what I have always is too typical. Clientele of a drug dealer today is you're co worker in your neighbour for

sadly your high school student or your son, or your wife or husband, can be yeah. Now some of the children of these women. And they were extremely upset about the food. it used in newspapers and on the television screen depicting there. Their mother you for many. That was not the person they knew and he made sure that the outlets had other photos of their mothers that showed during your happier parts of their lives. Probably most importantly, I think he just wanted people to be aware, that their loved ones were murdered and that there is just as important as any other murder So now I wanted the end on that, because it's something that we don't always talk about, always think about mean the children.

Most of these women had four and five children that they left behind, and it's not just the fact that they lost their mother, mean you here, I'm talking about It's the fact of how the media portrayed their mother. He upset about that too. We ate right I mean who, as we know, these are people right. He said the mother sister died or if somebody and they deserve the respect. You know that he can't harp on what was going on their life at the time. Yet you may not agree with the lifestyle choices may he done you know? We all makes our decision was sure. He'll make bad decision. Some people just don't recover from those decisions again bottom line. Is they didn't deserve to be murdered now D, thereby does nobody deserves to be murdered? That's it. That is the case of Sean Vincent jealous. He wasn't a guy that I was that familiar with gives before I started. You know

having into the research and he's he's as bad as they come, ranks up their manner. I am surprised that he is is not as no lesser known then some of the other ones we ve done, I'm really shocked, but now we keep ass, not question right. What? What is it that moves, the needle for a killer? be infamous, or you know extremely well known and there's a bunch of different factory. I talked about summum amazed is he's not he's no scott petersen, so he's not gonna grab that audience we'll post pictures like we always do this guy's not even drew Petersen he's pretty rough look besides the night, stalkers worst side, coca number again lotta women like they did and I as a doctor, richer ramirez. Attractive I dont get it there is a group of. I think you

bad elton with big hair, but in a moment love that stuff man new food aid. at the somebody whereby everyone tat gives to get some voicemail zoning, I've into those years? Here I can give you my name is beyond our verona, and I just wanted to let you know how much I absolutely love all of your pie, tat arm. I listen all the way through to grant all the time, and I am working my way through to him all the time and thought how ever I was real listening few another cheese onshore colonel this right and you guys wondered out loud why somebody might freeze body barnhart and I was just going to let you know. I've been listening to a lot of different podcasts, and this has been addressed before a lot of times: people's free, his body parts to disguise time of death So it can be years later, and people won't know because of the way that the freezer impact impacts are impedes. The way that a body decomposes

So I kind of want to drop that knowledge on you guys and say. Thank you so much for all. You do hope. You have a great today and keep your own time to get by drawing on some now. Job of seminars takes that boys, but I am not sure what episode that was gibbs, but I mean that something that I've known for a long time. I watch dexter I watch csi now one thing I do remember. I think we are talking about jerry brute. He kept a foot in his freezer and I think members talking about why in the world? Would he keep it there where, when Why should I walked down? Look in for a pound, hamburgers I like that. I don't remember ever grab a foot yeah and grab a foot, but maybe we did talk about that, but that's something that I've known for a long time that that does mask can mask the time of death civil. I will now. I am in favour

No, I said but lie. Ah I have, but it was. One of them is canadian, through grime, she's, really lovely arm. She mentioned a chicago which arise from the area point nineteen july. Third, king true crime like convention, and I just wanted to know if you guys are going. If you are thinking about it and it's seventy five dollars a ticket and if you guys are growing and she's going, I'm definitely going to go. But I just wanted to get an idea where, if you hadn't heard of it, We probably have cause you guys are in the business, but you are in a little more than I am. I just wanted to mention it. I just think of Eric and get more people to go to it. Of course your fans and aerial forest traveled, I'm sure alright, just wanted to mention the guys. Alright love that voicemail, we also love chris

the canadian true crime. We do so. We we haven't announced now said just causes so far away by its a great time too, we are gonna, be there will be in chicago chicago fur, for this podcast convention So if anybody's plan ahead now want to hang out with this thing, frank song, francs on francs francs sinatra, what what songs at chicago is chicago is what my kind of town. How the song is. Probably not. I thought he always sing about in your he. Does that too he's all chicago. Does he sings all the major city yeah date news. can be activated- goes covers all his fan, so they will be there Chicago yeah we are. I have you got

The website you'll see our logo were signed up, read up some chicago dogs or maybe some deep dish. I dunno maybe see haymarket or rain from a camera and which I have officially figured out. I hear a lot through your podcast I have finished pretty much every show, but I'm just wondering listening to the shabby key hole.

My mom a few years ago, told me about sketchy things that she was doing when she first had me and it turns out. We actually lived in the shadow motel while that was being staked out. So I would probably about one years old at the time, but I just thought that was kind of crazy, but just ticino, he did say in the podcast and hopefully take you if you go there for your vacation. It was actually knocked down quite a few years ago and the lot is actually completely vacant, but they still have the shadow martel time. Kinda creepy anyway, just wanted to call and say hello. My first time calling and keep your own ticket have a great day. Alright, that was awesome gibbs. You know how much I loved the stories about the connections to the cases that we talk about yeah brushes with these

killers or no six degrees of, racial. Whenever it is. I love those type of stories, absolutely yeah I do too. I gives we got. Mailbag only got one, so we Oquirrh cavy Wilson sent me a chip from alcohol, alcohol, not alcohol, anyways so assuming year was going to thinking of by alcohol, California, and she actually sent some pictures with. It like the hell's angel hang out- and I guess it's like the the only place on this block that is pristine. like all the other building, tagged or you know had graffiti or whatever, but body will touch the hell's angels headquarters building or whatever it is? It's like perfectly white perfectly pristine, really yeah, but there's also a big sign that says I think graffiti can be

hazardous to your health or something like the head. It was it was signed like that hell's angels chapter, I get a kick out of our gibbs. We re to wrap it up very rapidly that is it for another episode of true crime, all the time so for my and gave stay safe and keep your own time taking the the