The clock is ticking. People now streaming on paramount plus just sit back, enjoy the show and take some notes. N c. I s sydney. This is my hobby. This is my investigation, more action, but the gun down. I don't think so. More mysteries of laura sea ice told you to stay. Put the board sue me. The ncs franchise expands with ntsc massage live a little. The CBS original ncs sydney now streaming on paramount plus when it comes to the eddie sleep. Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special financing, options available. You can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase, helps give the gift of better. Sleep to children in need and a u s special operations forces visit your local ashley store.

or shop online today and make every snooze count. Financing is subject to credit approval, see store or ashley dot com for details.

The welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing, thanks for listening, I'm your host naked with me, as always, is a man who earned his nickname by being lost at sea. Here is the captain some time I wonder if I ever made it back, it's good be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for two

and this week we are very thankful to be sipping on some route. Thirty, three pale ale by the good, hard working folks over outer belt brewing in beautiful fairfield ohio route. Thirty three is a splendidly flavor full pale, ale, pleasantly hopped, with columbus mosaic and cascade hops grab great three and three quarter bottle caps out of five, and let's give some day some praise to our friends for helping us, philip. The fridge this week, pursed up a cheers to Kelly says it. From dent in texas and last but certainly not least, we have kate and north gate washing. everyone we just mentioned. They went to our website. True crime, grads dotcom, clicked on the pint glass and help us out with this week's beer fund. For that we thank you be w W. Are you in beer on make sure you gotta true crab garage dot, com,

we are running, are things giving say, also get some swag help out. The show keep the lights on that the bees ran. Everybody gather around grab a chair, gravel beer. Let's talk some true ground the and in born in rome, Well, ohio goes up in flames. Fire investigators dig through the rubble and smoking embers

I find that the dilapidated how building was an empty as suspected first one charred set of her maids and then a second is located Two sets of human remains where on earth from the ruins of osborne fire turned body recovery site and, of course, it wasn't difficult to quickly determine that the fire was no accident. Someone or some once had something that they did not once you or anyone else to find a peaceful community outside of the big city of Columbus, ohio. was about to be shaken to its core, too, were dead in an arsonists than killer. Was living among them. This,

the shrew crime garage. This is the case that a whirl Jamie Kelly, september, twenty fifth, nineteen, ninety four care and world called the king county ohio, sheriff's office. She told the dispatcher that her daughter abbe was missing, so was her daughters friend Jamie Kelly. Both girls, abbe world Jamie Kelly, were sixteen years old deputies were sent out to talk to karen at her home in the task alot ohio karen reported the following

the night before abbey and Jamie went to a party in the beech wood trail subdivision. The two teenagers return to parents home also located in beechwood trend. They were turned by one, a m karen saw them at this time. Jamie was sleeping over and care, witness the two girls getting ready for bed the next morning, Karen the girls they had plants. At ten a m karen got tired of waiting. So she went to abbeys room to wake the girls. She was quite surprised to see that they not there. She found a window open in the room. looked around and notice that the close that the girl were wearing the night before we're missing as well. She and the deputies surmised

Abby in Jamie likely went back out that night, leaving the house voluntarily Jamie's, mom and step that Connie and frank sweeney called the sheriff's office later that same morning to report jamie missing as well. So now we have to parents to supper, households calling to report sixteen year old, daughters, missing law enforcement would be told by carrying that her daughter ran away once before at least once before, and it seems PA If all that the authorities may have been involved in one of those occasions, now. Unfortunately, nothing will make a missing persons investigation less of a priority for local law enforcement, then the prior actions of a rebellious teen who likely ran out party or meet up with some friends yeah. I always complain on the show that we need law enforcement to take these missing person reports very

serious and they normally jumped to the conclusion that so many ran away on their own. So when you have a power history of this, that's obviously more likely to have law enforcement jumped to that conclusion per the newark advocate sightings of the girls had placed them in several locations out of town. Now we have the sheriff's office, licking county sheriffs, often office, captain re back, he said quote, we don't know what they were getting into. between here in Columbus, so we're talking. This is about roughly, let's say an hour drive from Columbus to this location and he simply say and we got two teenagers out. We don't know where they are. We ve had some sightings of them. We don't know what they're up too, but the girls didn't come home so eventually investigate

and was opened, and the sheriffs department personnel began talking to other teens teens. It knew the girls to see if they could get a bead on their whereabouts. This is late september. Now we're gonna fast forward to sunday. October. Second, this is about a week after the girls went missing the fairfield count, the fire department, was called out to a barn fire. This was an abandoned barn off of ohio route, one fifty eight about ten miles south of patapsco. A newspaper carrier who was out on his pre don rout saw the blaze, calls it in so the firefighters git to the barn they're, putting out the blaze. Now they gotta figure out what what caused this abandoned. Barn were looking for evidence of arson or or again just how

Fire got started and they're gonna be surprised and not pleasantly surprised, correct, Because they're trying to determine a point of origin for the fire and that's when their surprise they're going to fine human remains among the smoking rubble and it appeared to be two bodies that they were looking at. The corpses were removed, licking county authorities were notified. They realise that they could have a problem on their hands. We have abbey and Jamie who were still missing at this time. and now there were two unidentified bodies in a neighboring county so on monday they contacted the world in the kelly's and asked for dental records ass were receiving them, they were Defied fairly quickly, and Jamie were unfortunately dead. Their bodies found

that abandoned born. This is ten miles from their home in a rural section of fairfield county. What could have happened here? Well, according to the autopsies It didn't take long to determine that girls had not been killed in any fire. The fire was not the cause of their death. Re doktor, Keith, Norton, forensic pathologist and deputy corner of four County issued an autopsy report stating that Jamie Kelly's date of death could have been anywhere from three to seven days before the body the remains were located and the same for abbe. They were so decomposing burned that it was hard to determine time of death, Abby Jamie, had both been shot jamie once in the head and abbe three times in the chest, and once in the head as well

for evidentiary purposes, the best condition bullet removed was determined to be a forty five caliber rifling specifications correspond to those found in some router black hawk in dakota brand single action revolvers, but could also be found as some other types of hand guns as well, but that's the best that they could seem to narrow it down with there index. Meanwhile, we have the fire seen investigators who are poring over the barn this bar determined, was owned by a merry roads. She told me she did not know how the barn could have started to burn, but it was quickly ruled and arson because they were able to.

The german captain gasoline was used as an accelerant? To start this fire yeah very tough situation here, yet two parents looking for them missing children and the fact that they left the house. I think that would bother me as apparent. They obviously came home that was their ruse to then go back out

What reason did they have to go back out into the night? Who were they meeting up with? Why wanted? They just tell me whether goin, I think this stuff would play you and then are. You said not much later. Law enforcement is calling for a den of fire dental records and when you hear that as apparent again that be something very devastating to to deal with, but now you have a situation where, okay, we have two victims, there were murdered, and now there was a cover up just the fire in general and the way these victims were found, I would think makes it a little more difficult for law enforcement to to figure out what happened. Yes, it does in here here gets to be the problem with your investigation right away, so you have the

other sightings possible sightings. You can't fully verify if it was actually the two missing girls and then your time of death skews your investigation a bit too, because you have the experts telling you that they are probably killed three to seven days before being found? Well, if its seven days- and that means they weren't actually missing and a lot of those potential sightings are not true it was not our two victims. What we see allowed times missing person cases that you have false accounts false. I witness accounts of seeing individuals at went missing and not because I am not because, as I witness has won a throw law enforcement or the parents off the track its because people want to help. So when they hear of these missing girls, almost I witness has come out of the woodwork

or I might have saw them here, I might have saw them there and that cutting gives you a false sense of hope. Your investigation would lead you to talking to friends of the girls talking to other teenagers. They appears naturally, but in this in It's what you have to is, you know, or at least through talking with mom, and what you're seeing at her house, it's believed all parties, that the girls willingly voluntarily left that home late that night, so they sneak out of the house, the kickstarter for your investigation I said you would talked appears anyway, but what you do now is they didn't sneak out of that house to hang out with each other likely, they were going to be meeting up with somebody else or some ones else. So this would lead you. This would be the kickstarter for your investigation. We need to talk to all these people that all the peers,

of theirs. It knew them knew them well and might have heard or talk to somebody. Maybe they were gonna meet up with later that night. They were hanging, with people prior to going back to parents house right. So the difficult thing will be the interviews and that's what we're adding to now so we have abbe marie whirl and Jamie K Kelly again, both sixteen years old there, both students at the same school. This is watkins memorial high school abbeys mama single at this time. Unfortunately, abbeys father was deceased, Jamie's pair were divorced and her mom was remarried. Their deaths were a terrible blow to walk kins, which had seen a weird rash of deaths among its student body as of late in july of ninety ninety three, a male student actually he shot a female and then took his own life

Abby and Jamie, were still missing their missing. For a little over a week, a female students had taken her life as well, so that rule number fatalities among the student body, five in just a fifteen month time period. If your law enforcement I think this would make it a little more complicated because, yes, we have the student body that we need to intervene and figure things out, but we don't have one victim, so we don't have one inner circle. We have two victim, so we have to enter circles, that's correct and meanwhile we're trying to sort this out and we have the school. Who is trying to address this weird situation with its student body and trying to cope and too I hope the student body who many of these young people are sad and confused by all the tragedies that are going on around this time. Initial media reports state that invest

it had no suspects, and this did not. he's the minds of the community. Obviously the deranged killer of two innocent teenage girls could be somebody likely as somebody in their community. The other threat here is. It is very possible that somebody at the high school in it makes you wonder if there's two victims are there to murder yeah? You had one freshmen girl when interviewed by the local news, saying: look the killer could be roaming, these halls the halls of this school that we're all showing up to five days a week, fairfield county sheriff gary de mastery, took charge of the investigation he told the columbus dispatch. That's our major local newspaper here he said quote: we don't have many homicides fairfield county and when we do we like to solve them and get the people in jail who are responsible for them. End quote now can argue with that

de mastery assign all nine of his detectives as well as some deputies to the case of this is all hands on deck situation, and you have to applaud long psmith, for throwing all the resources at this case investigators. Fairfield, county and linking county sheriff's office is jointly set out interviewing family friends and classmates of the girls trying to piece together what they could from the stories that they were told, mostly from youth. So this would be about seventy five people total that they would interview and they had a difficult task of trying to get teens to talk openly with them. This was before cell phones.

and texting was not a thing of course, so police did not have the ability to search social media or phone interactions to get to the bottom of things. It seems that investigators figured out very quickly that the murders had happened close to home, basing what their finding talking to these monsters, their sauna pieces kind, a convoluted story, confusing story together, one of the first good tips if they get from an individual, nay Matt young. He sixteen at the time he told police Abby, had a feud going with an order girl. Her name was sonya hockins she's. Nineteen remember are, victims are six, Sonya long time boyfriend was a guy named Robert Daniel he sixteen he goes to whitehall, so he goes to a different school

but the word around school was the sonya hated abbe a source told the columbus dispatch. The sonya had beat up abbe at one point, saying quote: kids in school were afraid of sonya. She was tough But another kid told investigators that although abbey and Sonya had a beef in the past, that is point they had made up another kid. They talk to was Robert he's known as Bobby sheets. Several others had told them that Bobby used to date, abbe he told them he. heard that the girls were missing, but he didn't have any idea where they would be, but other kids told them. This bobby sheets actually had made play as to hang out with abbe to meet up with abbe on the night that the girls went missing, though they stuck out of the house he was in,

car waiting when they did sneak out and went back to his house. So that's the rumour that's going around town and around the school. The police are getting tipped off too Apparently it wasn't. The first on the abbe had fled to Bobby's other teens told the The abbe ran away once before in his head at Bobby's whole. Another kid told it s Bobby sheets behaviour had started to become very. strange in the time that the girls were missing, leading up to the time that the boy these would be found in the barn, farm law enforcement- I mean you have this beef between these two school girls or one now at a high school, but that normally does turn into what seems to be honest to execute. And then a barn set on fire to cover up the evidence.

and very strangely too you have a situation where we don't have a great grasp of time of death, but regardless what the science is telling the coroner is the minimum three day. Before they were found. Will the barn was on fire for seventy two hours that barn, whose fire for a short period of time before was located and their attempting. Put out the blaze, so why the discrepancy in this timeframe, Why is it this time line a little more direct? It almost seems like whatever took place or whoever is responsible for killing the girls then sat and waited to try to completely discard of the bodies and completely conceal them. Maybe

god. So if I'm picking up what you're putting down while you're saying as you think that the crime probably took place on that night, that they left their house, but then maybe the bodies were place into that barn and then a couple days later the barn set on fire. That's what I'm thinking and in who knows how long or where the bodies were concealed, but with the statistics would tell us, is typically yes, when an individual goes missing an later found to be murdered its oft in that they are killed relatively quickly after the time that they vanished, disappeared and here's the weird thing to the shares detectives, they're kind of getting this vibe after talking to all

different teenagers, one they're they're kind of clued into this beef. That's going on or may have gone on and ended right, but now there they're kind of get this via the sum of the kids, don't want to talk, and they think that maybe some of the kids are either afraid because of rumours that they have heard or possibly have been threatened by someone taberley. Some individuals are talking. So, even if this rumours- even if it's just here say at least you're getting some names and some leads, so you can go questioned them as law enforcement. We have one teenager this a sixteen year old boy, but won't name names

here. For obvious reasons, he's interviewed by investigators- and he says he tells them that he had received a death threat- doesn't go into great detail just that he has received death threats We also have one fifteen year old girl who tells investigators, and she received a phone call on october fifth from a man with a deep voice warning her to keep her mouth shut about the murders or she would be next. The boy that one threatened. This is where we get a little bit more information here because he's having a second meeting with investigators and he tells investigators that Bobby sheets now. This is the second time that we ve heard. This name was involved in whatever happened to the girls, but as far as he knew

Bobby had only intended to tie abbe up to a tree and beat her up. This boy said that he heard it all went down in a grey, yard, somewhere behind Bobby's house. He also said it. There was a rumour that Bobby carried a forty five caliber handgun. The rumour was that this gun was hidden somewhere. I guess it was like near a bridge or or near Bobby's home somewhere there Difficult thing here is here: we know that this Bobby sheets name has come up a couple times right. We know that in its rumoured that when one of the girls had before that she had even hit out with Bobby. We know that The girls had a relationship with Bobby sheets at some point, some of she's got to sound a little strange, a little bizarre to investigators when you are hearing these things of. Oh, I heard he was involved, but he was supposed to do

tire up and beat her up So that's extreme, that's very extreme! So that's going to be boosting to your investigation, but also its and it went down in a graveyard behind Bobby's house. Some of this has got to feel like a giant game of tat, phone to some of these investigators, who is tat, who what and how extreme is that are the details becoming after they ve been regurgitating from teenager the tina. it's a teenager right. So now you have to sort out. Does this individual actually have real knowledge of something, or is he just trying to be held for any telling you all of these decisions the rumours that have come about with the because, let's face it, this is going to korea

all kinds of- and I hate to use the word, but for lack of better term excitement in the school right extreme levels of sadness. extreme levels of fear. Extreme levels of of also trying to figure out what happened to these people. But maybe you didn't even know. Maybe you just knew the name or heard the name, because you went to the same school, The other weird thing to hear captain is that another student tells the detective that somebody else was rumored to have a gun. When asked. Who is this person that has the gun? He says it's a tonya hopkins Notice, it's a variation of a name that we ve heard before Sonya hawkins. And we know that she's nineteen detective said early in the investigation to news reports.

It's all related, but we're still sorting things out. They were still in the thick of interviews and information gathering when they got a big break the there- is never a long time to protect your whole, but this fall happens to be an especially good time, because you can get up to fifty percent off a brand new, simply safe home security system. It was named the best homesick purity of twenty twenty three by. U s news and world report simply safe is comprehensive protection for the whole home with advanced sensors. They detect break ins, fires, floods in more plus. the cameras for both inside and out its power by twenty four seven professional monitoring for less than one dollar a day. Half the cost of traditional home secured with new twenty four seven live

protection in the small alarm wireless indoor, camera monitoring agents can see in speech intruders, helping stop crime in real time. A powerful technology exclusively from simply safe satisfaction is backed by simply saves money back guarantee, try simply say for sixty days. Risk free, you don't love, it return your system for a full refund. They want me to tell you why I love simply safe. I've been telling you that I love simply say for years now. Let me tell you what I love about simply safe, because this is keeping me safe. My home is safe from break ins, I'm keeping my pets safe from fires and protecting my property from floods. I have a home security camera. I have interactive monitoring and alerts. I have a security system, with a base station wireless keypad entry, sensors motion, sensors- and I have the video doorbell pro I loved,

lay safe. You should try it out risk free today for a limited time, listeners can get a special, fifty percent off any simply safe system, with a fast protect plant visit, simply safe dot com, slash garage that simply safe dot com, slash garage theirs safe, like simply safe. If you ve been wanting to learn a new language, because you want to connect more with family members whose native language is an english or because it could make you a more competitive job, can then rosetta stone is for you? Rosetta stone is the most trusted app out there. It will fast track your language acquisition, because lessons are immersive their designed to teach you to pick up language in a natural way to from one of twenty five languages, plus with rosetta stones. True accent, feature you'll get fee,

back on how well you're pronouncing words. Rosetta stone is convenient, it can be used on desktop or as an app and lessons are short as ten minutes, plus it's an incredible value, especially compared pricey tutors, a good friend of mine, is learning german. Why? Because his ancestry, He wants to learn more about his family's history and connect with extended family members though he is using, rose at a stone to learn german and he's, told me that road, at a stone has made it fast and easy on his journey Put off learning that language. There is no better time than right now to get started and razetta stone makes the perfect holiday gift for

very limited time. True grimed garage listeners can get rosetta stones lifetime membership for fifty percent off. That's fifty percent off unlimited access to twenty five language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem, your fifty percent off at rosetta, stone, dot com, slash garage today this it just sponsored by green light. It seems like every day that your online, you see a new parenting hack that someone swears by some of them are awesome. Some are awful, but if you're looking to raise kids that are financially responsible, I have a life saver recommendation. You need to check out green light. Green light is a debit card and money app made for families it gives kids and teens and easy and fun way to gain financial literacy, while giving parents peace of mind, you can send instant money trains

where's automate allowance in keep an eye on kids spending with real time notifications. Meanwhile, your kids can begin their journey towards financial autonomy by learning how to save, invest in spent wisely. The app also comes with games at teach, kids, money skills and a fun memorable way. The app includes, I chores feature where you can set up recurring or one time, chores customize your family's needs and reward kids for a job. Well done you are. school and teachers are not going to teach them to be financially responsible. That is a parents. Job in this is a tool that parents can use to teach their kids about finances and how to spend their money and save them. I love this idea because I think green light makes it easy to set goals with your children and also let them take some control over the rewards for achieving those goals. Sign up for green light today,

get your first month free when you go to green light, dot com, slash garage, that's green light dot com, slash garage to try green light for free, green late dot, come slash garage dart, your kids financial journey with greenland today. The show is sponsored by better help. Do you look where do the holidays, maybe struggle with seasonal blues this time of year, can be a locked and its natural to feel some sand. This or even anxiety about it by adding something new and positive to your life can counter act. Some of those feelings therapy can be a bright spot, something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting their be give better help a truck. It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out of, We ve questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge. Find your boy

great spot this season with better help visit better help, dot com, slash garage today to get ten percent off your first month. That's better help, h e l, p, dot com, slash garage, One wish everybody happy thanksgiving. Here's to everybody out their chairs to you colonel. I am thankful to have an intelligent, thoughtful and respectful host and partner and it's true crime, crazy world, so cheers to you and cheers to all the beautiful, listen to me as well captain and cheers everybody out. There have a safe, a very safe week, especially for those traveling to see their loved ones on october. Ninth, this is the big make, the police were hoping for. We get a woman and her boyfriend come into the sheriff's office, their report

that some of their guns were missing. And one of them was a forty five caliber handgun. Remember that investigators believe that this was the kind of gun that may have been used in the double homicide. This couple, le vert verdict carol and her boyfriend Duane baker. They weren't exactly certain when some of their guns went missing, they did tell police look. We believe it was some time between ago fifteenth in September. Twenty fourth right: this is an interesting led though they also tell investigators Laverne his daughter you might know who took the guns right. You got a teenage daughter, there's prob.

lee teenagers in and out of your house. It's reasonable to believe that may be. The daughter might have a clue who stole these guns to now. Investigators are going to sit down with nineteen year old, sonya, she's, asleep food and at walk in high school, so having a little trouble graduating. It sounds like to me, according to records under questioning sonya made statements that increase I herself and actually to other teams in the girls deaths. The two teens that she incriminated were bobby sheets aged fifteen of baltimore ohio he remember, he's a student at watkins and rob Daniel sixteen of whitehall. He went to different highschool. He went to high school in whitehall ohio, so this is going to lead us

some surgeons, because this is powerful information in their investigation. Having heard from some of the kids it we all went down or the rumor was that it all went down at Bobby's, sheriff's deputies obtained search warrants for the sheets residents, which is on black lick road. They also obtain search warrants for the sheets family's vehicles and an outbuilding. Now They failed to find the gun, the murder weapon, which was the primary thing that they were looking for. But what we do get is sheriff de mastery saying too the media quote during the search behind one of the walls in the outbuildings we did find, articles of clothing. They had stains that appeared to be blood. they also found newspapers with bloodstains on them, as well after some testing and a little bit of time.

They are able to determine that the blood that was found on these items matched abbeys blood. So now we have a very big problem. We didn't fuck in that murder weapon. That we were looking for, but we found our victim's blood at a home at a property. air, one of the individuals it we ve been told by others, may have been in all or may know what happened. This very quickly is To lead to in a but not just one arrest captain, for Arrests were made so the suspects who were arrested were bobby sheets, as we would suspect right. Fifteen raw. rob Daniels who we ve brought up, he sixteen sonya hawkins nineteen. And elsie sheets- this was very interesting, who is elsie sheets Bobby's, mom, fifty four years old, but

The remember the other weird thing here to captain is that we have at least one student who tells police there's somebody else. You know there's a person there is rumoured to have a gun. Is tanya hawkins, we have a sonya hawkins. Who is a suspect? It's arrested so likely that kid was trying to give information, good information to law enforcement and just got off the name wrong right. So the charges, Four rob and Bobby were actually delinquency. Of aggravated murder theft of a hand gun in tampering with evidence. The charges for elsie, Bobby's, mom and sonya three counts. Each of publicity to commit aggravated murder temper With evidence, abuse of a corpse and arson sonya was also charge with theft of a firearm according to sheriff de mastery abbey and jamie.

Ended up meeting up with Bobby Sonya rob late at night after they snuck out too and continued to party. This apparently is believed to be in a field behind Bobby sheets home on black, like road, where this would make sense for the rumours that the murders took place behind his house and power boy in some cemetery. The girls were shot there on the same I did they climbed out the bedroom window. Both boys were vault in the shooting jamie Abby were transported to a born about one and a half miles away in the barn was later set on fire. This is the belief this is a thing

that the police are working with after making these arrest after collecting a bunch of evidence. I wonder, after having this evidence of their were able to go back and talk to neighbours and said to her to find out if they heard any gunshot. So maybe not I witnesses, but possibly some ear witnesses. of the night of the murder there is some type of graveyard or cemetery- that's not terribly far from Bobby's home either. So you can see how that kind of got all wrapped up in some statements that were given to detectives re sheriff them. Ass. We also made a statement that elsie sheets was being charge, even though she did not witness the murders according to the allegations against elsie quote when they return from disposing of the bodies she made a pizza for everyone at the home and quote sheriff the mastery said that the only motive they could come up with was some bad feelings between the teens

allegations made by the sheriff were hard to believe. Of course, why would teens kill each other? Well, Hopefully, we're about to find out get to the bottom of the storm, just some clear so they come back. The murders take place than they transfer the bodies to this barn. So now they have the bodies hidden. They go back to one of the kids house and the mother of being charge. She makes a pizza forth the kid correct. If, if the police theory of the sheriff theory is correct, then that's really the simple version of how this all played out. So then, are they assuming that, then she heard

information about what happened that night and she just didn't, come forward to law enforcement. Well, here's the best part at this point. In our time, like you now for people under arrest for people charged with some serious charges, some of them, you know varying from one another- Now you have them in your custody, separated in your inner viewing them individually to try to piece together exactly what happened, to make sure that the right people are getting charged with the right charges as a very smart tactic, because you can prove that as far as the timeline, you can prove that the mother is involved, but does not prove that she has information, but just by arresting her, that's gonna put pressure on her. This

put pressure on her daughter, that's going to put pressure on all the other kids, because, if you're a kid you go well, maybe the other kids won't crack, but you're more likely to believe that in the adult in this situation is going to do the adult thing and the cops. The information they now in his post arrest, interview Bobby sheets claim that abbe com him from a party on the night of september. Twenty fourth member: that's that night that they eventually snuck out and went missing. and he says that the two of them made plans to meet up later. She brought jamie with her for this later meet up right. They all sat outside Bobby's house drinking rob wanted to have sex with Jamie and she refused now keep in mind. This is just according to one of the individuals arrested.

His post arrest interview Bobby says it rob then pulled out a gun and ordered Bobby to kill the girls Bobby admitted to holding the gun, and he said quote rob told me to do it and I decided he wanted me to shew abbe end quote. I said: no, I wouldn't do it. Then he just reached over and went you're happy Bobby sheets told the police. I never shot he shot. Abby one time first and then he reached over and shot jamie, and after that he started shooting a couple of times at abbe Bobby said that then his mother just sat there in a daze just freaking out so there on Bobby's property. You said earlier, you want interview neighbours to see if they heard anything, this Bobby in his interview after he's arrested, saying my mom heard the shots right, and so he tells police. My mom

sat there in a daze, just freaking out as he meaning rob and you moved the bodies to the barn. He said, rob and sonya carried abbe inside and rob came out, wiping blood off of a knife and told Bobby that he and Sonya stabbed abbey and she was dead They then dumped jamie's body in the barn as well when they got inside to their surprise. Abbe was still moaning at this. Rob picked up a concrete block and threw it on her head to kill her course Bobby made sure that, in his version of the events here actually done anything wrong right heat, he didn't say anybody hidden shoot anybody. He didn't throw the concrete block. He didn't and move the bodies. According to his version of the statements rush hour, his version of the story- he also

so that rob had been the one to order the barn to be burned to the ground in order to hide all of the evidence. Now, of course, he's not going to be the only one to give a story to police, rob In our view, it is well on the day of his arrest in his statement. Rob claim that two weeks before the slayings Bobby sheets junior and his mother, elsie sheets and sonya hawkins, all three of the other people. There were arrested Plotted to beat up abbe world because she and some friends had been harassing the sheets family speaking of elsie sheets, rob stated: yes, He knew exactly what was going on cause. She helped Bobby planet, so, according to rob, he's telling a very different story ripe. This was something that was planned out. Not I try to have sex with this girl. She refused then I went trigger happy like Bobby says. He say in these three told me

this plan weeks before they were killed. He go it's to police that elsie was involved in so much so that She paid him rob forty dollars to keep quiet. so rob says he had known about a four weeks but did not get notified that they are actually going to do the deed. Until that night major robert lowry later testified that, in his in our view in this area, with rob rob changes story multiple times. He says the first round mitted to firing a gun, but that he had been told the weapon was loaded with blanks. Then he said that Bobby

Abby four times and then rob shot Jamie because she was a witness rob also said in his statement that we were supposed to kill them in the cemetery, but Bobby got scared, so we went back to his house so rob while there might be some truth to rob story. We have the officer saying He gave us several different versions of how this all play now, while this becomes two for law enforcement, because, yes, you have these suspects arrested, but you have to put together a case to get a conviction, and so, when you have differing accounts in court, you can play that against each other and possibly not get some charge and sentence for this crime. Yeah you run that risk. I think that the bigger risk that you have here too, as if these trials are going to go to a jury.

is not being able to lay out a clear cut narrative, backed with evidence and witness statements to confirm that if that that theory, that your laying out for the jury right and if you get confused juries than what what it looks like to me by this point captain, given these statements, given some of the evidence that they have that they have a pretty solid casting against at least the three year stirs. The mother gets a little bit tricky here and what we still have two more post arrest statements to get to my butt but the but the risk exactly right. The risk you run here is it: maybe they don't get charged to the foolish to the to the full extent of what their actual crimes were so sonya at her. In our view, she admitted that she and rob had stolen three guns from her mom into wanes house. So and and were right. You might want to ask our daughter.

She might have an idea who stole these guns will turns out. She admitted dealing with her boyfriend, rob Bob was on the look out during the theft of the guns. According to Sonya, their plan was to sell the gun she said, but instead one of them was used to kill abbe in jail. Me, Sonya initially had told authorities a Bobby, shot, abbey and rob shot jamie, but then later change her story and she said: rob killed both girls. Then she said that she didn't see the first shot fired ass. She was running to hide behind a tree, but then did see, rob fire the gun, shooting jamie once and abbe three times so This is really just a mess. A big mess for investigators, as we have discussed the interviews in the statements we got em we got. We got a bunch of different statements here. It looks like we got the right people. The problem is not

their stories are meshing well together. So it looks like a a soup of lies at this point, while on top of that, the evidence we do have is we do have these victims were shot. So when you have these suspects saying well, we throw Hungry blocker, this individual stab them some Evidence is covered up by the fire. and so that makes it even more difficult to parcel out what what is the truth and was lies, because if you'd know that evidence You have a clearer idea of what happened, and so, whatever they tell, you can't muddy up the actual facts. A lot of the upcoming information comes from the columbus dispatch, which did turn terrific coverage on this case and, of course, we relied heavily on them for the research of this episode. But what you get here captain now that you have these arrest remember there was some threats made. There is

whether teenagers that were scared, and now some of that fear has gone away now that you ve got people behind bars and charges that have been filed, while the investigator still sort out the details of what exactly happened. So now we have others coming forward that that were previously talk to that are giving further details and some rumours that they had heard, one of whom was that Bobby, had told a few people that he wanted abbe dead for several reasons, apparently that there was some be for some harassment between her and Bobby sheets and his mother, mrs sheets, Remember there was talk of some kind of harassment going on. There is also a report. The said the abbe was trying to collect two hundred dollars from Bobby sheets because he had taken her class ring and we know

They were in a relationship at some point. Prior to these events, others were now telling detectives that Bobby said that abbe was pregnant with his kid and then At some point, she had aborted his baby now to be perfectly straight up here, We do not know whether this is true or not. This is just some of the information that was coming out. There is also information that came out of it. these sheets hated abbe because of that person perceived harassment than we do. About. But she also believed the abbe had vandalized Bobby's car at some point, and

We don't know what's discuss between mother and son, but if he seems to believe that abbe was pregnant, no boarded the baby. Well, it's likely she could be very upset about that situation as well. So it turns out what we end up hearing is the raw Bobby Sonya elsie had all discussed. killing abbey and other people were somewhat aware of pieces and parts of that information or those rumours right which would make all this premeditated so we know from the four arrested their statements and now the statements of others that we have the right for suspects that doesn't seem to be question. It just remain unclear how everything went down exactly now, the best that we can tell

from sorting. Everything now is. It seems likely that bobby rob and sonya abbey and jamie all walked back together to the sheets residents from the graveyard at some point Bobby pulls out a gun and shot abbe. Then at some point, rob grabs the gun and shot Jamie. This took place behind a garage on the sheets property, now keep in mind that we are talking about a very large property one, but also we're trying to sort this out from multiple different tales of who shot. Who sonya said that she didn't see the fur shot the hit abbe, but she saw rob shoe jamie once and then shoe abbe

three more types rob said that he shot Jamie Bobby, shot abbe all four times and Bobby said that robbed at all the shooting. So we hate we got a bunch of people pointing fingers at one another. The newark advocate news, summed it up the best, I believe they said quote. Despite testimony regarding the statements of three people charge, in the deaths of Jamie Kelly and abbe world. It is still not clear who fired the shots and quote both were law enforcement. We have to take all these stories and try to peace, something together that we think makes sense and that you can back up some of it. The evidence now keep in mind. Remember that born it does not belong to the sheets. Family rights and its now believe that Girls were killed on the sheets property. So at some point the three teens transported the bodies, the bamboo

Seeing this off of the vehicle that they had a pontiac firebird and the number of individuals involved here and based off of some of the further details of their statements that that we don't have time to get into all those details, but it sounds to me: captain like it's likely that they transported the bodies one at a time back to this born area or to this abandoned barn area. guarded of the gun at some point in the process and then afterward driving back to bodies house. Now here's where things get more my blowing- and this is not something- that's really in question here. This seems to be hard core fact. So, eventually, the kid a ride back of the sheets house, this around four a m at this point. There all covered in blood and they act

tell Bobby's mom. What had happened that in one of the statements, one of the perpetrator says it was done. We told Bobby's mom. It was done that backs up the prior statements that some of this was premeditated, if not all premeditated and all discussed by all four people, elsie does not freak out. Like Bobby said, she did, she did sit the kids down and tell them hey turn yourself in. Nor did she call and even an anonymous tipp to try to be helpful. No elsie actually tells the kids take off all your clothes member, their bloody their dirty. At this point, she washes the closed for the kids and meanwhile, the kids are out washing in cleaning out the vehicle that they used to transport. The bodies says he's doing laundry issues I am, I will make them a pizza. Well, she goes even a step. Further elsie then went to the grocery for frozen pizza and cigarettes.

and they all sat around eating pizza smoking. Six what's wrong with this world, then the four discussed how they were going to keep this whole thing quite how they were gonna, get away with it, according to rob, elsie said that she would pay him a hundred and twenty dollars to keep quiet, but we had forty honour. So that's what she gave to later that same day the teens drove elsie's pontiac too big walnut park and columbus where they hit a black garbage bag and a drain pipe inside the bag were Jeannie's and abbeys jackets. One of the leather jackets war had several bow holes in it police later recovered these items from the dream. So there are able you see how their able to verify parts of these stories based off of the evidence. week later Bobby elsie and sonya decided to burn the barn.

whether or not rob actually ordered it to be burned is a matter of contention right, but it has been David. The elsie was the one who knew where the barn was an actual that she may have been the one who was selected as a place to conceal the bodies in the first place. So she's very hands on. It appears in this whole operation, elsie drove Bobby and sonya too station to buy a five gallon can of gasoline and then drove them out to the born where it said this. He waited in the car while they set the entire place, including the bodies on fire. The record reflex at rob stated abbe was killed because bobby she was tired of her and that he and her mother did like her and all they they they had this problem with her and he further stated that rob. Q jamie, because she was a witness, an we didn't want any witnesses so important, unfortunately

Abby was the target. All long and it looks like Jamie was just a collateral victim. The legal proceedings got very difficult in the early stages captain the best way to summon up, as we have a couple of people that are minors here, so you have, That's the problem, the hurdle of well. Do we try them as adults or as minors, and just as we saw in our episodes, the jordan brown case and episodes five, fifty one in five, fifty two, it's a similar situation, if these juveniles are convicted as june as they are only be held in prison to or an institution to the age of twenty one, but if their tried as adults, they could face life in prison, which I think that's what deserve, while some would say or, The argument that these individuals deserve to be executed, that on fire. Premeditated murder is a very serious charge,

and so with that should come very serious consequences if found guilty. Now, in january of ninety. Ninety five sonya actually plead guilty to the charges against her and. she sat and cried and in it throughout the the guilty plea the judge sentence, sonya to a concurrent fifteen years to life for the two complicity to murder charges. The judge also sentence her to thirteen and a half years for the convictions on the last surcharges plus. Mandatory three year term, because a gun was used in the slang. So in total her terms

went to be twenty eight and a half years to life sonya will become eligible for parole in twenty two years. She was going to have to spend her twenties and her thirties in prison. Thinking about what she had done now as part of her plea agreement, captain Sonya was required to testify against the three other suspects. Elsie Bobby and rob elsie's case actually goes to trial and her defences simply that she didn't know exactly was going on and what part she was involved and she was defending or protecting her son yeah and she could stay or make whatever defense she wanted to. But at the end of the day we know that she was involved and that she helped cover this all up exactly in there going to be the jury's findings as well. They deliberated for four hours,

on day. One five hours on day too, but eventually they'll come back with a guilty verdict on all the charges for and against elsie. That leads us to Bobby, whose really to me at the very centre of all this. As far as looking at each and every one of these suspects eventually he's going to this was quite the surprise move, because what he does is to everyone's surprise. Key pleads, no contest to the charges of complicity to commit aggravated murder, and in fact, please no contest to all of the charge. So a saying luck is emitting to the truth of the facts of the indictment without actually admitting any actual guilt

Normally, when you make a plea deal you you are stating that you are responsible for that, the crime this deal not so much. He doesn't have to emit responsible The exactly he doesn't actually have to tell the corps or confirm for the court that he actually shot anyone, and so it's a it's a bit of a chicken shit way out or or maybe he's got hopes that he's going to get some kind of lesser sentence right in the end, he's going to get convicted of incentives to very similar punishment as the other two perpetrators In the end, Bobby will serve about thirty six years in prison before he is eligible for parole and if he is released at that time, he'll be in his fifties at that point and

and what we have here is rob who had emitted shot jamie, because she was a witness to the murder of abbe. It was decided that he's going to be tried as an adult as well. Just like Bobby was an he sixteen and a half at the time of the killing. now he tries to do the insanity put ads Psychological evaluation is court, ordered yeah, which eventually finds him to be competent to stand trial. They also determine that he was a piece of shit and then on may twenty fifth judge Joseph t Clark sentenced, rob two consecutive terms of life in prison. So happens here. This is weird cap because he tries the insanity play there

confirm that he is competent to stand trial and dirt. This hearing and during this process once the its ruled that he's competent. He then says I please no contest the charges as well. So this gets a very similar sentence as Bobby if so, he will not be eligible for parole until he serves thirty six years. But overall I mean this is just it's. It's pathetic. It's sad and yes, you have these conflicts when you're a child entering adulthood, but Jesus they could have just let it go. These are. These seem like very juvenile problems, then turned to double homicide, and now at each

one of these trials or the court proceedings or the hearings. You know we have four different situations here with each of the accused who all end up convicted. We get the the families who stand and they give very powerful statements. But I do want to read too of the statements this both from robs sentencing and we have jamie's mom conny sweeney who stood up in front of the court rather judge and says. Rob Daniel, you are the only person that night that took my daughter away from all of us who loved her. I gave her life, which you took away and two or three seconds you change all of our lives, including your family. I'm sorry, I can't ever forgive you for what you took away from us for what you took away from jail

me and quote, and then you had care and worn who stood up. She gave very powerful statements at all of the sentencing hearings for each of these innovative at this one. She says in her statement that she that it was wrong that rob was allowed to plead no contest the charges. Instead of admitting his gill saying quote, he was killer for higher. Remember he actually says, He said she go pay me a hundred twenty dollars. She only had forty honour and paid me that that night, forty bucks to keep quite so careworn says he was killer for higher paid in money and goods to murder, my daughter addy, then he summarily executed jamie to silence a witness in an effort to avoid capture. He is a cold blooded, psychopathic killer who was not even charge with all of the crimes he committed. End quote so, as you said, captain

horrible situation very sad situation. These seem like juvenile problems that did not need to escalate to this level at all. So here we see all these years later, with two dead teenage girls for people convicted of murder, but really no real, concrete answers as to exactly what happened right. What is the truth? bout, the identity of the shooter or shooters on that fateful night, perhaps as sonya testified, with Bobby and rob were the bad actors here, but sonya at nineteen was. more than complicit as someone who notoriously hated abbe issues, seems like she might have been the driver of the plot right and then there's elsie sheets, the one actual air quotes, actual adults

in the group who, rather than being a guiding force for good and a moral compass for these kids, was vengeful vindictive, calculating and conspiring. It seems possible that the whole murder plot was her brainchild if she burn babble does far too far from the tree, but if she had not goaded and urged these use to me twitter, Abby who's to say that they would have taken things this far his maternal approval was surely a factor for these kids in the tragic irrevocable decisions they made that night decisions that ruined countless lives. In the time it took to pull the one of them

Everybody for joining us here, each and every week in the garage colonel. Do you mind if I give the audience the beautiful listeners a recommended, reading, happy thanksgiving to everybody and captain? Please? Yes, if you have not listen to the delphi murders by yours, truly nick edwards, I don't know who that guy is the crispy colonel. It should say Nick Edwards a k, the crispy colonel check it out on audible, it's a great, listen narrated by the one and only Kevin pierce for that title and other

great true crime. Titles check out are recommended page at true crime, garage dot, com and until next week, be good, be kind and don't.