This father's day find the perfect gift for the dad who loves the perfect yard right now, as a fifty dollars on the steel fsc, fifty seven battery trimmer set set includes the FS, a fifty seven battery trimmer, plus the ak ten battery and a wanna one charger offer only in forty nine dollars, ninety nine cents, real steel, fine, yours, steel dealers that come what may nine. Ninety nine emma s, s r p offer ballot through it's eighteen, twenty three at participating dealers while supplies last. In new orleans, twenty twelve bruschi chair, I drove to an address someone had given him that didn't exist ass. He stood in the park lot where the address should have been, he was shot and killed. I'm. You d umbra join me for the newest season of counter clock as I die, the motive behind bruces murder. a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now binge all fourteen episodes of counterfeit.

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The title no! I guess I did What are they gonna model? no. Why I remember being spiritual. I think it was t shirt, the t shirt, okay, whatever they tied up with peter you remember well. Remember the you know: no, you know tee shirts electrical poor thing arthur peter

You know you're the guy, around I guess the What are the world where most of the time he retired over the winter Michael, better, believe that not a whole lot, not a whole lot easier there are a lot of time. You don't know what they were saying. Nothing back in december of ninety. Ninety one in austin texas for teenage girl were bound and killed in a small yogurt shop. The store, of course, was robbed, and this is it. This is the case. It has gripped the city of Austin, texas and his grip that this state

texas as well. We are sitting here now, twenty five years later, still asking the question who killed these girls. So quick recap: when the firefighters show up to the, I can't believe it's yogurt shop, they realized quickly, is not just an arson, but we have a quadruple homicide, so that's going to be assigned to, detective jones in detective Huckabee and, in my opinion, those two detectives. I think they work the case very well. They had a lot of issues here with the with the investigation, this being: we have people making confessions, and that is tough, because a lot of these confessions are pretty wild according to jones and huckabee they're they're able to easily quickly sit down with these

and people these confessors and figure out early in their stories that they don't know certain details of the crime, things that would have taken place that evening or evidence that was left and collected at the scene. They are unaware of what actually took place. So we're able to quickly dismiss several of these confessors eight days after the murders took place. They arrest maurice pearce, which had a twenty two caliber gun, which was the gun used in at least three of the murders, and he implements his teenage friends and jones and Huckabee kind of get to the bottom of the skies. This kind of bull, shitting yeah, and on top of that, the gun does not match the ballistics of the bullets, were found on the scene, so they they get rid of these suspects and they clear them and they ve, moved on in the case right so leads are starting to dry up now and in nineteen. Ninety two: We have a mad man, that's running a mock in the state of texas, he's a known, sir.

Oh killer, he was somebody that was released by the texas prison system and he's been suspected of new killings, while they try, calm down and ninety ninety two and they suspect that he possibly could have done this crime because he was somewhat in the area around the time that the crime was committed, he would have been an austin Texas. They can play some thereabout twenty three days after the cry. Yet within a month him in another person a duck, the lady awe and they re per and murder her yeah. She was abducted from downtown car wash in this. This crime took place, the ogre shop, murders took place in north austin city and that killers name that serial killers name is kenneth, macduff he's eventually, you know they stopped let him because it really nothing that tides to him. As far as friends ex goes in nineteen. Ninety four detective jones, who was the lead investigator of the yogurt shop murders? He receives a promo

and they move him off of the case. The cases considered cold at this point, now in nineteen, ninety six, we have other detectives that would move in and start looking at this case with fresh. Eyes and ninety ninety seven we have a serial killer that is captured. He will become known as the fast food killer, yet he would a pretty bad dude and he was running a mock in the state of tennessee. His emma was was, he would walk into a fast food restaurant and he would really take the scene over. He would he would take control the scene by holding a gun to everybody. He would make a quick robbery. usually steal the surveillance tapes. If there were any, he would execute all of the persons in the store, and then he would

leave within a very short time period from february, sixteenth, nineteen, ninety seven to April twenty third nineteen. Ninety seven, he robbed three different stores and, in the course of he ended up killing a total of seven people yeah and he's not just a suspect, because he is known to rob. You know mcdonald's or captain D's and that you know the yogurt shop. It would fall cannon that line. He is also from the area of axis yeah. He was he was born in taxes and at a young age he started getting in trouble with the law in nineteen. Eighty three, he robbed a Houston stake house and he's convicted of aggravated armed robbery. He received a twenty year prison sentence for this, but he's peril after just seven years, he's paroled in nineteen ninety which any stays in the texas area. He becomes a truck driver

so he was in the area at you know. Ninety one, yes, and during this time he's he's driving a truck. He ends up in some kind of bad accident and he receives quite a handsome settlement for this, and he decides that he's going to get some plastic surgery because It's funny that you said a handsome. You know and then rolled it into plastic surgery right right, well, he's kind of an ugly kid. and throw them out there and any makes himself look a little better and he d I he wants to move to nashville to become a country western singer, nash, vegas yeah. I believe he wanted to become the next garth brooks. No, he had the talent of billy re cyrus, yet I thought might be that might be giving him far too much credit but there are some reason to suspect that he might have done. This is certainly something he would have been capable of. However, his crimes were a little bit different in the sense that he he didn't rape. Anybody involved in these

his crimes that he committed up in tennessee. Now, nothing he's not capable of doing so. It really seems like his motive was for the money, your and our financial gain, and it wasn't. You know where these crimes, these yogurt shot. Murders really seem like to me more sexual, nature, and it just was it. You know, while I'm leaving the crime scene, I might as well take some money with me as I go yeah and it at the yogurt shop. They only the whoever got away with this. They only took for five hundred and forty dollars and they spent a decent amount of time their assaulting the girls his crimes he got into a place. He would take as much money as he could most the time. We're talking about upwards of two thousand or three thousand dollars each time, and he would he would leave no evidence and he would kill everybody in the store. He was quick in income,

scalp, which is not what we saw in the yogurt shop murders plus. He was never known to work with anybody else. I think the yogurt shop. It looks like a situation where you have more than one assailant said detectives looking into Paul. Read they kind of realize he's kind of a lone cowboy he's. You know he's not tag team back again, and but this will lead them to go back through their notes and start to re question some people they that jones and Huckabee already question back in ninety one yeah they're going through the file they're going over this case time and time again and what they keep going back to is this maurice pierce keeps standing out to them and his three

Friends that he has robert Springsteen Michael Scott and forest wellborn street bam yeah. So they decide that you know what this is the most likely situation. These guys did it Maurice pierce looks very guilty. He has a twenty two caliber got on him just days after the crime. He mentions the crimes of people he's kind of a natural born criminal. Yes, so he

is picked up, and this would be an october of nineteen. Ninety nine, they arrest all four men and they are going to sit each one of them down individually and now we're going to start getting some answers. Some lot much long awaited answers that we've been looking for in this crime while they are going to start getting. The answers cause that they're going to foresee the answers upon these these suspects yeah to say that the interrogation was a aggressive, might be an understatement of the century. Yes, so what happens? Is they pull in the four they're talking to them? Right

pierce has got nothing to offer. You know he keeps saying that nope. I I didn't have anything to do with this. I don't know what you're talking about yeah, even though you know maurice at the time of ninety and ninety one he was like fifteen or so so. Is this this punk kid he had a twenty two caliber. He, you know basically implements his friends into the the crime, but it was just kind of him being a dumb. You know dumb ass fifteen year old yeah. I believe his statement was that he had lent the gun to forrest wellborn, and that forest had used the gun in the yogurt shop murders. This is what put them on the radar from the gecko. Now, when they're talking to them ass, said here's here's, what their thought is going into the so K. So they believed that maurice pierce is some kind of criminal mastermind and he organised this whole robbery right and they believed that roberts Springsteen helped in MIKE

Scott helped. They believe that forrest wellborn would have been the lookout guy or the driver, and they believed that it would have taken a group of men to to commit these crimes. Now, keep in mind, though, these are just teenage boys at the time They are being questioned years later as adults right. We have two of them that, I might be willing to talk and we have two of 'em that they don't know anything. I'm right. Maurice pierce, he doesn't know anything forrest wellborn, he doesn't know anything, we're not admitting to anything a ninety. Ninety nine two of the suspects are twenty four michael James Scott is twenty five and forests. Welburn is twenty three. Now they get Michael Scott to crack first right- and this is quite the long process, we're talking about hours and hours of interrogation and it too to listen to the confession, to view it. You will see that

the story is changing as Michael's telling it yeah. If you listen to the trailer that was about seven hours into one of it interrogations so where he is, they finally broken him down. They finally get him to the point where he admits that he was there that he has taken place in the crime. Now he they gotta go through the details because they gotta confirmed He was actually there one that's the problem. He doesn't know the details. Now he doesn't get a lot of them right without being coax to getting it right. You know he often give a wrong answer and they tell em. Now, that's not it think harder. You need to try harder. Young detective keeps saying I'm not gonna, give you the right answer right, yeah! I'm I give you the right answer, but what he does council?

as he tells you when your answer is wrong. So by a process of elimination, you're going to get to the right answer: oh no, they were tied up with her clothes. Okay, they were tied up with their clothes. What clothes you know? Oh well, maybe this part of their clothes. No wrong, you know, and he keeps doing that and until he gets the right answer and just to paint the picture for you if you've not seen the confession: tapes that Michael Scott, he is literally sitting with his back up against the wall. I mean he's pushed up against the wall, and he has two detectives on each side of him right up in his face and they're all sitting down and chairs, and they are right up in his face and they are very aggressive altogether. They got a good cop, bad cop goin. They got one cop that kind of leans back costs we and the the main cop questioning is like maybe a couple inches from his face. so every time no, no yeah you get. You got the bad.

saying. No, you didn't get that right and the good copy saying it's. Ok, Michael, you tell us we know you know the answers, so they play that game for quite some time and will look let's go through Michael scots confession day. He stay, that they were all four of them. They were hanging out at the north cross mall, which was very close to the yogurt shop and that much maurice pierce, is in need of money. So he comes up with this idea that we're going to go, rob some place and he actually picks out the yogurt shop. They agree to go to the yogurt shop yeah, which is probably a pretty common place for teenagers in that town, because most of the employees there are teenagers. He says it that the event starts off like this maurice goes into the ogre chop and places in order, and then robber and Michael they go in and they ask to use the restroom. They want to go to the back of the store to see what

weighing on in the back now. During that time, they are going to open up the back door and they're going to profit open and, like we have from the reports, the back door was prompt, open and free, door was locked. Yeah and they're gonna wait for the store to close at eleven o clock. Now, after the store closes more greece and robber, or going to go back in through the prompt, open back door, and they are going to they have guns at this point and they are going to rob this place right. What ends up happening is during the course of this robbery. They ask the women, the girls, I'm sorry to hear. Their clothing, this being robert and then Michael Scott. He ties up the girls, any gags them. then maurice he demanding money from the girls, but they were fuse

or they say something like there is no money and when this happens maurice shoots too, of the girls robber than hits one of the girls and he rapes her yet which again, this all lines up with the reports now, the fourth girl is screaming and she's begging for her life, she's begging that they do not shoot her. Michael Scott, then pretends to sexually assault her. He saying that he was being told by the other guys to two raper and that heap he just pretended to sexually assault. and he can't remember at this point, which suspect handed him the gun. Yet in its at this point that he does shoot that girl.

And then he would go on to shoot Amy who was raped by robert, and at this point Michael Scott then says he is the one that stacks the body, and he also says that he's the one that I think administers the the accelerant you're exactly right again as something that's a little strange, because a twenty four twenty five year old, this is cop speak. You know a lot of detectives that have looked detectives and lawyers that have looked at these confessions say it's funny, because that the actual written accounts, because you have the verbal confessions and we have those taped and those are horrendous enough. But then they have to take all those statements and then now put them on paper and basically by looking at the the written statements. These cops go was kind of strange that the these kids are constantly using copspeak yeah. It's like they're picking up words as they're going along and in they state that you know it would have been more common to hear a criminal say, lighter fluid rather than accelerate.

and at this point they leave the building through the back door or they leave it. Propped open and michael Scott says that the whole this whole thing only takes about twenty minutes from the time that they entered the building after closing, until they leave now when they get back to the vehicle, worst, wellborn is no longer in the vehicle he has left. Yeah rumor. Has it he's off somewhere planet per ten game of pocket, pull that actually that those three boys drive around in there looking for forests and they find him in a park. They came up and then at some point they are going to ditch a knife. Did they had taken from the crime scene? I'm guessing. This would have been too up some of the girls, clothing or belonging to use them. As you know, bindings the other boys confess the man now Robert Springsteen, his confession

It is similar. It does line up with some of the things that Michael Scott said. One of those one of the key things here is that they both admit that robert raped amy, which that's kind of a of a percentage kind of thing right when you think about it, you have four, silence and one only they're saying only one girl was raped. While I mean let's go back a little bit on this because detectives yeah, we have four suspects, but detectives are already kind of leading them onto this idea that, while force was outside that, so there now there's only three, so you got thirty three percent chance of getting the person right. That's true, that's true yeah and they they both said that forced was outside as well and they both said that the door, the backdoor was propped open. It's a little unclear on robert statement as to when he sang the ban. nor was prompt, open, was prompt open to get back into the store, or was it propped open

They left the store he also seems to have some knowledge of the other boat. Remember we said there was a second gun used in the situation. He seems some kind of knowledge that there was a thirty eight involved, not just this twenty two that they were already aware. My which again all this starts lining up with the reports. But again his confession is much shorter, much less detail and there are parts of it. You know that do not match up with Michael scots

there are some things that these guys do not get right. Yeah and one of the main themes that late defenders of these Austin fours, what will call them is that it's, the robert claims that he they stack the bodies and then he lit the bodies on fire right, which the national reports from the the firefighters and the fire chief in the fire investigation was that no, the bodies were actually set on fire that it would have been the shelves. If you look at the crime scene, though the right beside each other, yet it they would have been, the body stack would have been about. You know just four or five feet from this stock shelf. You know where you have plastic cup, sir. I'm sorry styrofoam, cops and things of that nature. It's it's not crazy to to think that. Maybe the shelf wouldn't have fallen over at some point, but Michael says that he had used these die

phone cups, with lighter fluid too, to light the body stack on fire now. What would end up happening is after they get these confessions, they would go back and they would find a new fire investigator to take a look at the crime scene, and this Investigator says you know what I disagree with the previous findings. What actually happened is that the the body stack is where the fire had originated from, while this is was so freakin annoying right, I mean we see this time and time again in these cases that go on solve most. The time when case goes unsolved is because these detectives, not not jones, not huckabee, but these detectives go on this. This mission, we have a theory, now less prove the theory and, like we ve, always heard some of the smartest detectives that we met and that we ve interviewed, I know trying to do our job a little bit better on the park

get some insider information. It's the guys that say look. I am not smart enough to to imagine what happened, so I let the evidence present itself to me and present the story to me. You follow the evidence. You don't come up with the theory, the theory and make the shoe fit right and, and some of the detectors have we've talked to in the columbus pd- have been really good about this. And the idea that the davy even said hey. Look he when you're working on a homicide, you might have to three detectives involve sometimes more and they ve tart several times about how they ve had partners or people that they ve thought really highly of that would come up with the areas and then they have to rope him back and hey man you're just ear just trying to make the shoe fit, knock it off. This is not send a relic right.

and the the thing here's here's some other things that don't actually fit right, and these are things in their written confession. So we have the the back door was propped open. One thing that they could not agree on was: what did they use to prop open the back door? One had said it was a rock one had said that it was a pack of cigarettes. The problem being here is that again, according to their story, the door would have been propped open on two different occasions, so it's possible that both items were actually used while endless. Let's just remind the listeners, I mean this: is this questioning habit in nineteen? Ninety nine and not nineteen, ninety one, so some of your account is going to be off right now. One thing that that they couldn't get right too was they had said that the murders took place in

the office. Well. This was a big red flag to the original detective. That was on the case detective jones, because he states that when the police arrived on the scene, there was no evidence that any one had entered the office. It was a locked door and it was locked when they arrived and the murders. One hundred per cent took place in the back room in that stocking area in that prep area that we are. Act about, and they probably know that for once again this cases so tough because of the arts and and and because the firefighters did not know that they are gone into a crime scene and because they were trying to put out the that those fires that properly really disturbed any blood splatter. So it you know, we can't say a hundred percent that that's where they happen. But will we can say is that when the text of showed up on the scene, a hundred percent, that office was locked and they had to actually get a key.

if somebody to unlock lock that office, which makes a lot of sense because who is left in charge of shutting down the yogurt shop, to teenage girls right and and so the manager, I'm sure, would go cam going to lock this up or or maybe that was part of their duty, you know you put the money away, lock it up, and but I don't think there was a key on on site and that I don't think there was a key to the office that even the the the teenage girls had well and keep in mind to this. Under this premise, right according to their story, the whole reason The thing took place there. That night was because it was a robbery. The motive was to rob the store and get money which I think both of us agree that that wasn't the motive. I I don't think so, you're exactly right. The thing here is, though, captain if the, if the whole motive was robbery. Remember we're saying that they were inside that stored under your own words for twenty minutes, I would argue

that it might be closer to an hour that somebody was in the store, but regardless there was a lot of things it took place once that store closed and in a lot of things happening, and I can't wouldn't be able to sit here and have somebody tell me that there was a key in that store or that there was access to the keys to the robbers and that they didn't go into the

office, looking for more money or valuables. If that, if, if robbery was the motive, now Michael Scott did get the the positioning of the bodies correct, he had a good idea of that as well as he did know that amy was not on the body stack. He knew that that she she was in a separate area. The problem I have with this statement- and this is exactly what the police said- they said you know he got- he got the body positioning right- that that's really tough to do, and I will give them that. But here's where I have a problem, one thing he did not get right is he didn't? He wasn't able to fully describe the lay out of this

or so yeah? Maybe you could get the positioning of the bodies right, but how could you get the positioning of where they were inside the store? You see what I'm saying within my right. If you don't even know it or understand the lay out of the store, one there's a lot of things and we will get right back into not only what they got right, but how they got those things right right after this quick, this fathers they find a perfect give for the dead. Loves the perfect yard right now say a fifty dollars on the steel fsc. Fifty seven battery trimmer set set includes the FS a fifty seven battery german plus the ak ten battery and a wanna one charger offer only. In forty nine dollars: ninety nine cents, real steel, fine, yours! steel dealers that come what may nine. Ninety nine emma s s our pe offer ballot through it's eighteen, twenty three at participating dealers while supplies last.

in new orleans, twenty twelve bruschi chair, I drove to an address someone had given him that didn't exist ass. He stood in the park. Lot where the address should have been, he was shot and killed. I'm You d umbra join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die, the motive behind bruces murder. A series of events that have never been fully investigated until now binge all fourteen episodes of counterfeit. Season five wherever you listen to pod. This spring transform your outdoors space into a regular gathering place for you and your loved ones. With help from Ashley, whether you're into wicker, teak or driftwood, inspired furniture, we've got the look you're going for add and accessories like string lights and beverage tubs to take your patio party from basic to curated and enjoy cozy evening vibes with a new fire pit visit, ashley dot com or stop by your local store and find affordable pricing and expert support.

today, shop and say today only it actually going through the items that the confessions got right in the things that they got wrong, continuing on that path. Here I want to say a little bit of time. Talking about this thirty eight, you know we had mentioned that a michael scott doesn't seem to know about a second gun. He never mentioned anything about the thirty eight. However, robber is aware of the thirty eight, and this is presented as a problem for these young men and for their their eventual prison sentence right because this, this suppose it thirty eight, which we know existed. However, the police are saying this was a fact that they kept close to them that the people in the general public would not have known about that. I I tend to disagree a little bit with the

statement because, as we had said, there have been fifty confessions and one thing that the police state was with with anybody that seemed to have knowledge of the crime they went out and looked for the thirty eight, because they had other confessors say that you know I dumped the gun here, one we also have four teenage boys and the murder victims were for teenage girls. So we're talking about a lot and now eight years have passed. So you of eight years of us, not a small town. I mean this is about half a million people at this and ninety one. But you have a lot of people in this community talking about this. This is a huge news for them So there is a lot of talk about that there is. There is a very good possibility that day

One heard that there was more than one weapon and and not in, and also we're not talking about just for kids that have not been involved in this crime were taught him out for teenage boys that were basically arrested or brought in for questioning eight days after the vat yeah yeah. So they may been told about the thirty eight. Then I mean, if you're sitting in a room eight years ago, somebody's asking you what about the other gun? What about this one, Thirty eight involved and in your saying that time you don't know anything about it. Well, it's easy to jump to that conclusion. When your backs up against the wall and you're being you're being forced to give answers that you might not have any knowledge of wine, you get there detective two inches from your face. I mean he might have bad breath. Who knows but

the fact of the matter is, you know the the main point of all these confessions that is so blatant as that yeah they did get some stuff right, but how did they get that stuff right right? They didn't just say something. You know a the perfect example in the trailer is when he says well. Yeah there were bound up by, I want to say electrical cord right, and they goes no, that's not it. They got to. Majority of these right answers by that the detectives kind of forcing yet it they're they're. Really you can hear you can hear, especially Michael Scott. You can hear him kind of guessing answers and then he's looking to them for approval. You know. Did I get that one right? It's almost like it's almost A kid in school, hoping to get the right answer for teacher, holding the textbook and in the teacher, keeps asking questions and saying now: that's not it tried again and again

keeps changing his answers or modifying his answers to get closer to what the police know to be true. Now, on that thirty eight we do have robert who does claim that they dumped it somewhere and, of course, they go and look for it now mind you its eight years later I have had I've heard people say while this this proves that innocent wealth. The gun easily could have disappeared from wherever they placed at eight years ago. Right, but but again we have this situation. And where they are arriving at answers. These aren't answers that they walked in and sat downward. the other thing that I have a problem with here. Is you still have two guys it having confessed to anything right? You have to You have two guys a claim to know very much about the crime and sugar it seemed to know nothing and even when they are presented by investigators, while No, you did it because so and so told us this and told us that they hold true and they sit there and say

I know it wasn't there. I don't know what you're talking about the other thing to regarding Michael scots confession. Is that part on the tape where he says you know he's asked who was there with you right? Any he he names to of the other people who names of you know I was there with maurice. I was there with robert, and I was there with forest. And he says it in a way that it is like asking a question: I'm ron, burgundy yeah and they take it as okay. Well now we got the four people that we wanted to hear. We wanted to hear all for those names. Why? Because you have to go back to, nineteen ninety one when they originally questioned these guys, they need force to be there. Why? Because they're reasonable, why they picked up maurice and started questioning him about the yogurt shop? Murders is because he said he lent the gun to forest and force had used it in the

shop murders, that's what put them on the radar, so they really needed maurice to be there as well as forest, even if those two didn't confess to anything bright and with forests, I mean it's pretty simple. I mean that his interview, 'em, you know, I I believe it's dateline. I found very compelling and and very believable because he's pretty much say, look how not gonna lie and in an especially not gonna lie about this and there is no way I did this, so there is no way you're going to get get me to say that now this is what this is. What's weird cause the community and obviously the victim's parents are going to start guan, while these guys are monsters right, these guys are savages and and they need to be locked away. You know

maybe death paoli at an because a lot of people have a really hard time wrap in their head around. Why would you confess to a crime that you didn't commit, and I would like to believe that that would would just not be possible with me but you know nobody would know, there's until you are actually in that situation. I had to say wait and many years ago where I was observing a trial right and I had. I was close to a turn, an attorney that was involved in the trial and they put one person on the stand, and this has before it got to an actual jury trial because they were trying to determine if they should just plea this thing out or if it should go to a jury trial and one of the the attorney was representing a person who wanted it

I go to a jury trial. The defendant wanted it to go to a jury because they believed they were innocent, and now I don't know what actually took place, but I was in the hallway and I overheard what the attorney was saying to the defendant. The attorney was saying: let's play this thing out in the defendant was adamant know it's got to go to a jury because I'm innocent, I'm not pleading,

if anything right, the attorney said well. The reason why I'm saying we should plead to this is because they are offering a very low plea bargain. You know with something small like pay a fine, and we pretend this never happened right right. He saying let's just take this penalty and agree to it. Why? Because the the man that was just on the stand that was on, he was on the stand for almost the course of a whole day, and he said you do not want him to be on the stand in a jury, trial and the defendant said well he's lying and the attorney said he might be lying. But here's my perception of this guy, okay- and this is what I believe a jury will think this guy comes off as not being very bright. He comes off almost to be too dumb to lie where he he

He would be presumably believable to a jury, an audience of such of a jury, and I I found this to be something that I kinda kept in the back of my mind when I was when I was reviewing stuff regarding forrest wellborn, because we have a guy here that never confesses to anything ray and and on top of that we have, we have. We have people from dateline. We have investigators from the original investigation that that they all claim that you know force is not a bright guy. You know he's not a smart guy,

you know he couldn't organize a a two car parade and he he hears the way he strikes me and I and I feel bad for the guy, because not only was he brought to an end face charges regarding this crime, but on top of that, then publicly he's put down for for his mental capabilities or whatever they are right, and I don't want to look at the thing is frankly insulting I mean he's element. He seems like a nice character and at the end of the day. Ah, he was smart enough not to confess to a crime he didn't commit and the big problem I have with his portion of this. Ok, he is stating I was never there. He never admits to anything right now. You got two guys that place him at the scene. Now, ok, now wooden investigators say: ok, let's make a deal with forced. Let's make a deal with him, because guest

Fourth, we know you were there. We were told by these other guys that you set out in the car. You didn't have any involvement with the actual rape, the actual tying up of the girls, actual robbery, the actual killing of anybody. You were just on the outside of the building waiting for these other guys, and by their own emission when they could. When they returned to the vehicle returned outside of the yogurt shop, you had fled the scene. You you clearly didn't want any involvement with this right forest right so force. Why don't you tell us the truth and we might be able to grant you immunity, or we might be but a grant you a slap on the wrist and in because had they got a third confession that would have been. That would be paramount in this case. Room before us has something gone for him in this case here, yet two guys,

ass in saying that you are involved in the case, be got another one of the individual saying oh yeah, by the way he wasn't there, because I wasn't there and this shit didn't happen, re it. The other thing to is I want to know more about the timeline, one thing that they don't go for in the confession: they want to know details of the actual crime, but one thing that they fail to do is to wrap these guys up on a specific time line, and what I mean by that is. We have Michael Scott who says that the whole- thing took about twenty minutes from the time we entered the building to the time that we left the building What do we know? We know that the The words were locked at eleven p m and we know around midnight, the flames were seen in firefighters were responding to up to a firewall. Well, ok! So that's one hour Well now, let's go ahead and look at what the neighbour said. Remember neighbor had said that we have a secure can hear wary

We get a summary of his report of that night and it would be nice to have the full report, because the neighbor states that he had heard some popping noises thought something was a noise was coming from the roof he went outside to investigate and that's when he saw the door propped open along the, the fire. Well, ok! Well, here's here's a little bit of an issue with that. What time did they entered the building could could we could we had them narrow that down during this confession, because it seems to me to be an important part of it, because it It may not line up with what the neighbors saying why the rate at which I understand all that at the end of the day. This confessional doesn't mean shit me on the ice, yeah that this all this information was forced fed to him, and if you don't believe that

other things when their target mouth all. Well, then, then, I put a gun to this girl's head right in an odd than the detective goes behind. I can remember which, when it was Michael. He goes behind Michael's head and puts freaking gun to his head an end. So then that then the detective is on record saying. Why am I, the gun to his head. I put my finger on his head. No, no ye ye ye showed the suspect, a gun. You then put something on the back of his head. I was I've seen the video footage. It looks like you put a freaking gun on his head yeah. He in not only that he walks behind Michael to do so so so Michael may not have known. Even if wasn't a gun, you would assume it would be a gun. You right- and I understand that the community is outrage in that they want answers and all that stuff but you're, making up a bunch of malarkey right and and so then, you out to sea fast forward. We can't talk, two of them because we don't have confessions?

and we don't have any forensic evidence linking these individuals to the crime and may be part of that is due to the arson. But now we're going to put these two men on trial and the other two are just going to be: let go yeah so yeah, quick breakdown of that is. We have robert who confessed Michael, who confessed okay, so they're in a whole heap of trouble we have maurice does not confess to anything he's he's originally charged. However, they could not get in an actual indictment. They couldn't get anybody to bring it to court because of a few things he didn't confess, and on top of that, the gun that he was was found on his person eight days after the crime did not match the ballistic test. So he's he's released because of that and never fully tried for for this crime. Now we have forest now he's in the same boat. He did not confess to the crime and the thing that's going to get him off was remember. He was

back in the day back and ninety ninety one eight days after the crime. After they pick him up in there talking to him, he actually look terms, they hope them up to a polygraph which he passed on that day. This would be one of the reasons that the original investigators would let him go, but this would also be a reason that they couldn't try him for this eight years. later one another thing I find really interesting as as are going through this process. You get detective jones and you get detective huckabee saying hey, we question these guys. We know what's up the gotcha be looked at. Why the how yes, Brennan them to trial they and then they see you know, and then obviously they get to see the footage of their interrogation and realise this. Is you know tissue just watch it? It doesn't take a rocket scientist of figure out that this this is awful.

detective work, so robber and Michael would go forward and they would be charged with these crimes. Now, what takes place in their trial is robert, They basically use Michael's statement, his confession against robber and they use roberts confession against Michael in their tried separately. However, not neither of those guys are called to the stand in the trials. So what takes places you have robber, who was sentenced to death and its later commuted to life, because they they decide that you know what he was a teenager when the crime was committed in your hand, you know you can't charging a child and an them to death. Now with with Michael, he sends to life and present what ends up happening is in two thousand and six these convictions or overturned, because you

you have, we have the right to address are people they accuse us of stuff and because neither of these guys were called to the stand they were able to cross examine what they had stated, therefore, that you have to overturn these charges are right so eight days after these crimes are committed that these teenage boys recalled in eight years later they are question again, then they go on trial. They are put away, sentenced to life in prison or death penalty, which is then overturned and then several years of being in jail. They are released based off of yeah they're, not fully released. What they do is they they they

hold them because they are going to try them again right, an area now we're going to do it the right way in his? What we're going to do? Well, there being held for quite some time tat course they don't make it it's just like with Annan siad right. You know everybody got so excited right that, with that you know, he's gonna get an actual trial, and I think you know the true crime community, whether or not you think he's innocent or guilty. Everybody agrees that the trial was, dickie threat rate and the evidence they had against this kid was ridiculous questionable we have very questionable, and so now we have a situation where he's just sitting in the living in waiting right and it basically, still in prison the whole time europe is ready. It was the same thing's happening here yet and not only that you have the right to a speedy trial, and these guys have already been in prison for quite some

I'm sure they would like to be out. You know, while they wait for their new trial right, but during this holding time, what do we have? We get? We get a little forensic evidence. We get some dna well yet this all kind of comes to a close all that about the same time, because eventually the judge comes at the prosecutor and says look. You ve gotta put together a case against these guys man, you gotta, do it soon? We're not just gonna hold him forever. While you wait to trial and there we're ready to take, and I am going to get the names wrong or or the order wrong, but they were ready to go forward on the trial with one of the suspects. I believe it was Robert Wright and then with the other one there weren't ready, and so that was the thing was if you guys aren't ready was crew. You right, you know, if you're not ready, then you need to release the sky and, at the same time like we set friends ex comes up, and then they take dna test. Yet they have dna technology that was not available back to to them back and nineteen. Ninety one

now using this technology. They they have dna and This is male dna, obviously, and they are able to determine that the dna that they found in Amy does not match that of robert now we have that makes a big problem with both of their confessions, because they both said that robert raped Amy. Furthermore, this dna does not match any of the four brain and this becomes a big problem, because the only you know so the confession we know are wrong. We know that they they pushed them into that. You know they pushed Robert to claim that he raped the girl, which you know. I think I would be a very difficult thing to admit. To doing, but none the less. You know that part of the story doesn't line up, but now, on top of that, we got five people. oh yeah yeah this is this: is the prosecutor, pivoting and saying

okay? Well, we can roll with that new evidence right right, yeah, instead of going hey, let's try to find the truth. Hey, let's just make up this. You know fictitious person you'll, we we have you know in this case we have pretend rape and we have fictitious people, and now yeah you there was no mansion and ninety ninety one of a fifth person police. Never first, there was a, never a fifth person, then, all of a sudden, now there's a fifth person. These guys are still guilty. These guys were still guilty. There's this a fifth person we'd, never heard of it. I mean this is just ridiculous. So what then happens is

their released, yeah end in two thousand and nine they are released and rightfully so in the case does not die there. I mean it does not end there, because what would end up coming out later would be that we would have the attorneys the to defence attorneys. They come out and they say you know what there is evidence that there is a second and a possible third male dna that was found at the scene right and we had always sit. We had always suspected that more than one of the girls was actually sexual salted bright and the that's. What the defence attorneys are saying now the prosecutor and law enforcement have never saw outwardly stated that they have always stuck to there's been one set, a dna that did not match any of the four guys. Therefore, there must have been a fifth guy there yet, but once I do the dna testing, they have to present that evidence to the defence teams well, and on top of that these, if these defence,

the attorneys are saying not only did this second impossible. Third dna that was found it not. You know it didn't match these two guys it didn't match any of the four right. So now how many people are you going to start claiming were? Were there committing this crime and now and. right and now we have two individuals that were arrested and spent time in jail and they can go after and restitution yeah they could go after restitution. The the the issue here, though, is the state of texas: has a clause basically stating that just to be released from prison or to have in and to have an a conviction overturned does not mean that you are due rested you sure you have to actually be proven innocent, which is going to be very hard to do specially when you have these false confessions that are still lingering and

we have a public in a law enforcement and a prosecutor that still think that these confessions are valid bright. But you took the chance on doing the dna test and it didn't match right, the the the glove don't fit. You must acquit right, and so I think that's the proof. proof that you're innocent who cares about the false compassion, because not only did we have these two false conventions we had what any fifty while fifty sixty reported- I mean so it it's just basically, you know it. It makes our system seem like such a joke and I'm sure there's people listening in other countries what the hell is wrong with the americas, where we have law enforcement down there, they still want to try these guys for for this crime, which is one that's. The other thing is that when these guys get out of prison right- and they say the saying over because ten years from now, they might come now

can our door and and that's kind of why they're like actually moving forward with you know, trying to prove that their innocence and we'd have to deal with this aim or one of the one of the people that they suspected is actually dead. Now he's passed away very, and in story, so in two thousand and ten this is Marie's pierce remember he was the one that they thought was the master mind and of this whole crime that organise the whole thing, and in december, two thousand and ten he's pulled over by austin police officer and in while to police office, I apologise now. His family would claim that the because he was imprisoned and lets say imprisoned because he was held for quite some time They were trying to bring him him to trial, even though they ultimately did not. He stating you know that they have he has some kind of anxiety and all kinds of issues from having been what he believes is harassed by the police, rain and

there's a situation here where he's pulled over and this this traffic stop does not go well for anybody he freaks out and he takes off your guy. He takes off on foot and eventually the one of the officers catches up, and now we ve got a fight going and during the course of this fight, Maurice pulled a knife off of the officer and he stabbed the officer in the neck. The officer then shot maurice. which the dobryna knighthood gunfire. Well, he didn't even bring them. first of all, hurry, but don't take the guy's knife that has again there's, there's all kinds of bad problems here that the thankfully the officer survived- and I I won't lay any fault on the officer. I I believe he he has to defend himself and I think he did the right thing. The only problem is would Maurice have had these issues. Had he not

lived this type of life had he not gone down yeah, but you know what came first, a chicken and egg. I mean what we no was? He was carrying around a gun in a mall right when I was a kid when he was a kid, not money was not on the track of traffic stop right, but what I'm saying is like the iskri. Now he was kind of doing this bullshit way before he knows that the more the story don't do bull shit and you won't have a bull shit life. He put himself in harm's way. I'll get so we have three of the four still alive and, like we ve talked

before we had these fifty to sixty confessions, so uh. What we do want to bring up is that we had a very odd confession by a guy that we already talked about in this case yeah and one of those is from Kenneth Mcduff. Now he was the broomstick killer. He was the one that we said was possibly in the area at the time of the crime. He would have been very capable of this crime because he killed many many women and he did all of that in the state of texas. He and he sometimes worked with other end of it. Individuals, yeah and one thing that he did, that did, that is kind of interesting. here right he'd never admits to anything right. He never confesses to any of his crimes he's. Indeed they had to bring him to trial for every one of these crimes and he's convicted of them and it's not until leading up to his to his execution that he starts talking to police. Now. This is just within days or weeks of his execute.

now, he's executed november. Seventeen. Ninety ninety eight during This time round of right around this time, there's an anonymous source that comes forward that tells in austin tv station. This is k v. U e t v station that mick duff confessed to the yogurt shop, murders, okay, and but they also go on to say that the investigators are having a problem with this, because he got certain key details wrong around the scrotum right, but is also years and years and seven years later now, let's keep in mind that the guy that did multiple murders. He was asked by the original investigators. He was question back and ninety two original jones and in he actually tells them now now. At this point he hasn't really confessed anything right, but he tells the two of them

Had I done that murder, I would have confessed to it. Why? Because I would have been proud of it right, yeah, that's! This is kind of a hole that we're dealing with here right now. Here's where I have a big problem with the whole kenneth macduff thing right, his name. First of all, it's an anonymous source tells a t v. Station rain sounds a little bougie and it's very fishy. First of all, we know from doing this show for so long and from the people listening to the show for so long tv stations newspapers suck they make things up? Sometimes you know it would be. Very easy to say you know we cannot, we cannot tell you are source, but someone came forward and stated that he confessed to these crimes. I mean that would be big news that would sell papers that would get people to tune into your tv station. The The problem that I have with this crime is book leading up to his execution. He ends up admitting

everything he ends up, leading them to bodies it. They hadn't found yet right. Why wouldn't he just confessed to this? One is well he he stood to gain nothing or lose nothing by confessing to this why it sounds like he did confessed to it, though. No heed he didn't. Law enforcement would come out and actively say here did not confess to this, and it was only the media that stated that macduff had actually confessed to the yogurt shop murders a it's simply put. They have dna test, his dna yeah. Well, you have you have the the head of the texas department of justice. His name is Glen castleberry. He actually says in a press confer old castleberry. He says when he's asked did Kenneth Mcduff confess

the yogurt shop murders he says no, he did not. I've never heard that from anyone that mcdonnell said anything a reliable source. Exactly I looked at that. Maybe he didn't confess to it because of their ages. You know you have two: seventeen year olds, a fifteen year old and a thirteen year old, and maybe that's one of the reasons why he didn't confess again. You have dna test, his dna. He he had been convicted of killing teenagers. you're right. I understand who was convicted of it, but what I'm saying is: maybe that's one of the reasons he I I would I'd have to go back. I can look at all his confessions. The different cases I mean so like did he can. Did he confessed? Oh, I did kill this thirty year old woman, but did he you know so which which crimes did he commit that he that he confessed to and what were those ages of those victims or maybe he's just not going to confess to

the crimes against teenage a couple thoughts on macduff. You know yesterday you and I were talking off MIKE. Then you had stated you know when we went through the description of the of the man that was seen in the army, T jacket right was was standing in line any ultimately just order, orders a soda and he's acting weird that description did match. You know we talked about how it it vaguely matched kenneth macduff the issue: is it matched kenneth macduff? If macduff were about twenty years younger? You know that he is a white man. He does have the have the knows he has the. Deep voice, clean shaven with dark hair. You know he matches does now scruff only problem is macduff is about six three and a half six four and in when I is so he's about four inches taller than what croft described the man in the army fatigue, jacket,

so that's an issue he's also about twenty years older than in. I dont think that you would have mistaken his age because at the time that macduff was out and running around, not only be killing women, but he was also drinking heavily and smoking crack so. I imagine the he probably after serving serving almost twenty years in prison and having a crack addiction, I'm guessing he does not look like a young forty five you'd had I mean, and on top of that he's balding in the front in bali, in the back by this time. So I dont think you would mistake him for no party in the front of in the band no party at all, with Kenneth macduff, the other My have with him being the person that committed this crime it hee hee. thing is: he would have extended periods of rape and torture on his victims,

What I mean by that is every one of his victims. He abducted them from one location and took them with him somewhere spent a good amount of time with them before he killed them. My issue with this crime is Kenneth. Macduff I dont think would have had the ability to walk away from these victims. I dont think he would have been able to kill them on site and leave them there? I think he would have seen this as an opportunity to take for girls with him someplace else, and do you know his whatever eda yeah, which I see your theory it. I think the problem is when you take in you know when you take over this yogurt shop, that may be. There was something that

in nah, where he had to change his plans is all I'm saying is that you know are these parents deserve some answers and the victims deserve justice and and- and they want to get it if it was macduff mean the jessop in the justice would already be done, but at least would Some closure, though, and I don't know, tons about dna, so it's maybe it's a issue where they don't want to test too much, because then eventually it goes away, but I I think he's somebody that they, think they should at least test, while in it's a little unclear here too, because we ve, we ve had these very general statements. They come out regarding this case, because we have two people what the, even though I don't think it's likely that Kenneth macduff did this crime and as well as I dont think that it's likely the fast food killer did this crime and one point of that being that the he never raped.

of his other victims. There was. There was rate that happened in this situation, I'm not saying he's above it or that he's not capable of it. It just doesn't seem to fit what the two of them did time and

I am again right the problem here, though, that I have is the immediate question goes well: did they can did they test the dna against macduff or against the fast food color? And we get these very general statements from people very close to the case. Investigators, authors, media people write. Basically what their statement is is that they've tested this dna against hundreds of suspects, so anybody that they thought could have been involved in this crime has been tested. Well, that's a very blanketed statement. I would love to hear someone just outright say: Kenneth Mcduff, we tested it against his. It didn't match right. You know read the fast food killer, we tested it against his and there is no match yeah. I think, with reid there there doesn't seem to be as many connections now we have a public and we have a law enforcement that is still hung up on these four guys. They still want to find a way to charge

then we have. The original investigators was very much like, like we said west Memphis, three there's a innocent side for west Memphis, three there's a guilty side same thing with Austin, for we have the original investigators and we have attorneys and people close the case that are saying you know what. If, if you want to solve this thing, it's very solvable, because we have dna and maybe at some point that this hits on some computer some where else in the country, or maybe even in the great state of taxes, and we figure out who did this that way, but in time it if we, if we sit around and wait for that, we're doing nothing productive in the in the process. So what these

two gaiters original investigators and attorneys people close the case or saying the way to solve this case is to go back and review what you know: throw those confessions I'll go back and review the evidence and see where it takes you. Well, we have a big chunk of evidence right here that points to who committed this crime. Now we talked about pull, inner interviewing the customers that came in that day? So we have an issue here, though, because I dont know how, with it in nineteen. Ninety one- and there not be surveillance, you know I don't know how they they interviewed all of these people. They must have did a a public call to action and say you know if you were here on this day, come in, so we can talk to you now. They can check certain sales to verify if people were there or not, and the thing here is, though they have to people that the they never speak to two people that are unidentified and that's it for that entire day and who are those two guys

the two guys that the married couple said that they saw still in the store just minutes before closing time. The two weirdos with yogurt yeah there sitting in a booth and their drinking cans of soda. So we have all kinds of issues here, the first being that the law enforcement has never publicly laid out the description of these two men. They ve left it. a vague, which I have a problem with its twenty five years later. Let's, let's release that description. If, if that married couple gave you a good description, let's release it, why did those guys not come forward ok and first of all, I want to throw in another thing here we had that that other unidentified, man that was in the army jacket. There was seen just around ten o clock at night. He had ordered a soda as well. Now we get a description of him from that former police officer officer Croft one could one could assume that if you have two guys later, that are claimed to be the only

to that were not identified right? You have this guy in the army jacket. The earlier was in this, When he's not been identified. What he must have been one of those two men would be what I would surmise doesn't have to be. He could have been set and first to case the place and then two other guys are sent in later and they're kind of observing everything but they're going to be the ones to take over. You open up the back door and then the army cht, the army, savage guy, that gus takes a p. Well, what I need arms throw because what we do have evidence of and in this way Another thing that I think law enforcement has to come out with is do you have dna from two people or do you have dna for three people and you're exactly right, and I agree with that statement, but but here's where here's, where I arrive at the conclusion that the man in the army jacket, is one of the two men that was seen right at closing time and that being that we have statements from law enforcement, saying that

only two unidentified customers for that day. Yet we have two separate stories taking place, one with two guys, one with one guy, so that would be three unidentified customers for that day. What theirs is theirs to sew on arriving at the conclusion that the army fatigue jacket. Guy is one of those people seem sitting at the booth drinking a can of soda right before closing time. The other thing that you and I have discussed too, is what the motive here, while the motive becomes very important when you cannot determine what actually took place re week week. We both agree that we think the motive here was rape. Is that correct yeah, I think, was sexual yeah? We. We don't think that this the most was robbery. Why? Because the small amount of money to they never broke into the office and in three they could have just taken the money and left. we're had everything gone their way now one would you that it was a robbery gone wrong. I get the argument. However.

I'm staying here is that I see a situation where you have to teenage girls closing a store on a friday night they claim that it was very important to go back and talk to every customer. From that day I get that, but what I'm getting at is a wonder if they talk to the customers from the previous friday. If, if the, in fact, the motive was rape, somebody new that that store was being opera, hated by two teenage girls that were unattended by anybody else that they see. This is the opportunity yet, but if they didn't question a bay on other days that attended the yogurt shop, that information is long gone and those witnesses are long gone and if they did come forward, how reliable would they be? That's correct. That's correct that. But the thing here is I'm going to stick on motive, wow, ok, the other issue is if, if the motive was in fact rape well, then there was a murder that was used to cover up this rape and, furthermore, a fire that was set to cover up the rape and murder,

now what we do know. One bit of evidence that we do know is that the lighter fluid that was used to set the fire was not present in that store until this robbery took place. Therefore, whoever did this crime brought accelerate into the store with them. This seems a little pre planned to me. I bring lighter fluid to a robbery by that's. Why there's lots speculation and the city of arson that for some reason, that this was some kind of insurance, fraud or or some kind of scandal like that yet and I've I've heard those arguments, the thing that did, I have a problem with on those is did why stick around and do the rape than if that's, if that's the actual case, you're gonna meet or some sick and the visuals? Yes, I get that there's plenty of sick individuals, but but a job is it

bob you see what I'm saying it would make more sense to me now. That's that's called a crime, not a job, but the crime they're hired to commit this crime, and it would make more sense to me to get in there do the job and leave rather to spend an amount of time in the crime scene and a normally I'd like to go down those. You know conspiracy, rabbit holes, this to seem captain conspiracy, captain for the last time people I was. I was just trying to be nice to Alex jones and sounds fans the captain not a visit like I really do not like Alex Jones. I just watched a co. Sometimes I'm just glad that we got to bring up capital conspiracy for a second, because sometimes yes, I go down a couple. Rabbit holes and I watch videos I do believe he has agenda. I do not like that agenda. I think the stuff he brings up as complete malarkey horse. She at Alex jones bathsheba bad job. I do now

like his jib. I am just saying that, overall, I don't think he's like some horrible person and deserves to die or anything. I think he has kids and any it's trying to make a living and- and I think he's he's his agenda- is money and all the other, shit. You know what he says a bunch of bullshit from my aways, what the cat is trying to say here, is that the insurance scheme, the insurance conspiracy, is far fetched. It right at best rights, far fetched like a lotta Alex joneses ideas yet, and so it that would be a whole. It take us a whole another day or two to explain that whole conspiracy to so we we don't believe in it and we don't need to go through why our it go on get back to my rant. So I think here we all I'm trying to say right. I just want to go into the short, quick theory of the two guys it were seen in the shop. Just before closing. I think they were sitting

booth. I don't think anybody ever re entered the building afterwards. I think that they one of em, we got up locked the front door, the other one approach, the register. If you look at a diagram of the actual crime scene, they were sitting in the booth. It was closed, just to the register at the crime scene, photos that are shown later that booth that table is the only table that sits there with an empty napkin dispenser right. They we we said that the the women the couple had stated that they had saw the girls filling the napkin dispensers re. The only one that wasn't filled was the one at this table. The only one that didn't have a chair put on top of the table was this table as well. I think they got up and they took control of the situation. I think They were targeting the two teenage girls that were there. I think the motive was sexual. I think that

fortunately, the other two younger victims just happened to be there that night. That was a variable that they had not planned on. I do think that the army fatigue jacket. Guy did go back to the restrooms at some point because that areas blocked off from the rest of the store he wanted to double check. That there was actually nobody back there. There wasn't a male manager or additional staff back there that night they wanted to carry out what they were going to do. I also think that the what kept throwing me off was this back door situation. Ok, because in the confession of these guys they state that they had left the back door open and came in later, and police and fire fighters find this back door open. The thing here is What I was able to figure out last night is that the building did have a sprinkler system. I think that this back door was just basically left open to lead

fire burned as long as it possibly could to burn off as much evidence as possible before that sprinkler system would kick on in may be possibly put out the fire and possibly just the way they left as well. Yeah yeah. It could have just been hammered. Saying we're going to leave here and and and just you know, leave it open. It makes some sense yeah now what one thing here, captain I'll throw a whole little conspiracy since you like him, so much So we had the neighbour the neighbour statement. I would love to hear what that full statement is a red, their full statement, because I have some problems with that statement. This guy says he never hears any screams. He says he hears popping noises. Many goes outside to investigate any sees the door open and that's when he sees the fire now I want to know how long it was from the time that he said he heard the popping noises to the set time that he went outside and saw the fire, because we know that it took some time for this event to take place.

If he went out immediately and saw the fire that women, that story is complete malarkey. It would make no sense because the words he would have seen the killers leaving the building fleeing the building, which he did not say that he saw anybody, here's a little thing here. Ah, I hope that they tested the dna of that store owner next door. Okay, I think you're reaching there but yeah. I'm sure I think at the end of the day they have this dna and and any possible suspects. Instead of trying to get people to falsely confess how about you just test that dna yeah, that's really the only good thing in this entire story here is that they have dna. I think they'll catch this person or persons eventually will. Hopefully I leave this family an arm and the victims, like I said I deserve justice and and deserves a man,

Alright wrapping up, we have our recommended reading for this week. It is wolf boys by Dan slater. You can pick that up by going to our website. This is the true story of a couple of teenagers that joined the zetas, which is one of the worst most brutal mexican drug cartels out there. You have us a story about a good nature, teenager that turns into a feared assassin, so that's wolf boys by dan slater, go to true crime, garage, dotcom click on the recommended page and check that out. You can purchase that along with anything else through the amazon banner and follows social media at true crime garage. We are on instagram twitter stamp chat. You tube each hour. Youtube channel is blowing up it's starting to blow up but are they instagram bat? I one and now did the war nothin. So if unanimity,

I am not fallen us it's a good way to see kind of the characters of each case. We're gonna try to post a bunch of pictures of each case. You know different crime, scene, details and stuff like that, so you can get a visual idea of what's going on in these cases. So it's not is our nasally drones. That's right! I thank you all for listening and thank you captain. We will see everybody back here in the garage next week and until then be good, be kind and don't let it and don't smell steel metals that loves tools. That work is hard to see us, so this fathers date give a gets here,

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