Still metals. Tat loves tools that work is hard as he does so. This fathers date given get he'll love to use right now, It always on the steel episode. Fifty seven battery trimmer it setting clues if I say fifty seven battery tremor plus the eighty in battery and l wanna, one charger offer only two hundred and forty nine dollars and many mind since real steel find you where did steal dealers thought come one. Ninety, nine! Ninety, nine emma s, s army offer ballot through six eighteen, twenty three eh participating dealers while supplies last. in new orleans, twenty twelve bruschi chair, I drove to an address someone had given him that didn't exist ass. He stood in the park lot where the address should have been he was shot and killed, I'm dvd umbra join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die the motive behind bruces murder. a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now. Binge all fourteen episode

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Nick I'm your hosts nick and with me in the garage, the original pinball wizard, the captain, Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be seen and is good to see you this week. Captain we're drinking east bay. I p a by ale industries in oakland california garage grade how about three and three quarter bottle caps out of five, this beer with sent It was by janey in San francisco, but we would also like to thank brenda sue in highland california averil in vancouver and a big thank you to. I am in Arlington Massachusetts, so thank you for filling up the fridge this week. Guys if you want to buy his around for next week, show go to true crime, garage dot, com and click on the donor, but thank you The tasty treats forgotten, project workin on, but we can't really let the cat fully the bag, but a big shout out to Emma and once we can tell the list

there's more about what we're working on we'll get to that one day, right, yeah big, shout out to Emma so cat how much over the cat is out of the bag. Just like that, the cat or not on its like it. It's like this little all of cats. That's it are you gonna feed the cat. Somebody has to feed the cap. Yeah keeps the mice away from the garage for anything through crime, garage or everything. True, prime grudge, good, true crime garage dot com falls on, social media, twitter, facebook instagram, secular ye. Are you two page out at through crime garage tv, We captain we're talking about the black dahlia now this was a case that we got a ton of listener request, so we thought we would die right in you- and I know quite a bit about this case, but we thought would check in with our good friend mark out in California, why casinos everything black dahlia now he spent up over three years studying this case. king on writing a screen play in together a book marcus

in hollywood four year. So he knows the area, and he knows this case. Our people less grab a chair and gravel a beer and listen into our conversation and talk some true cried mark. Would you tell us how you got in interested in the case of the black dahlia Yeah swell was about a thirty years ago. Nineteen. Eighty six, I was a. I worked in the movie business doing a makeup ex and I was a doing a film called nightmare on elm street three I saw a friend named bryant house up from new york. Work with me on the phone got delayed and we decided to visit some friends out in arizona working on a film cinderella, free time and a late start, and we took off and so we're driving through the arizona desert in the middle of the night. Talking about MR reason to cry and all that we talk about the zodiac jack, the ripper, which I read a lot of work.

So I knew a fair amount about that and then bryant told me about the black dahlia and I I'd heard the name, but I don't know anything about the case, and so he told me about it a little that was very Craig, we got back to allay pasadena, went privilege straight he passed through the library and started going through the old microfilms of the l a times a from january nineteen, forty seven getting the I brought a case. I was getting further trade. I do remember the time by it had an obsession with three things, which was as one of the shorts hair handed. He was obsessed about the key questions of three questions that the detectives kept secret to a a differentiate between the real killer and all the the confessors, and he he felt also strongly that it'd be great to contact a

brown was one of the two lake texas on the case, long story short a brian returned after the phone to new york. I was still intrigued with the case. I read l Roy's book. In fact I was so intrigued with the chase. I got a pre publication copy sent to me right from the public. And I read it one city and always great novelist. I love many of his books, the big nowhere and all the others, I was frustrated at the end because I, ah I was looking through his book for answers and it was. It was all fiction, so yeah long story short, I'm not going to use that phrase anymore, because a lot of these are long story short that to years later. I to finish writing my first screenplay with my friends on that monday and I really love the process with still left back to new york, I decided to to write one myself and I was like three months into this science fiction piece. My heart,

was man. It was frustrated my girlfriend him the door at my office and it all I m just you know, I'm stuck here two years. What's what's a topic, what subject you really passion about stick with per year and I looked at her and said the black area. and she took off shore film business. Well, she went off to another state shortly. george. I had free time on my hands and I said to her start my research in a serious manner. I found the universal cow state. Northward had all the old herald examiner newspapers on file made the below fuck out there and got to hunt honeys everything? From January february and march nineteen? Forty seven came back to my place, spread these syrups pages Oliver my living room floor, altogether, essentially at all the newspaper accounts of the case and

Cattle were really started. I such was the greatest play about the case authority. Do you two or three months of research and reading I came back and spread over the years is on my living room floor taken together, read all night long about the case. And my attention. At the time of two or three months, research and writer screenplay. I had no idea this will become a three year. Adventure, at once ones as soon as you think you get a hot lead, it ends up just leading to another another thing: the chase, another may well, you know the answer innocently enough. But the one thing I noticed from reading the newspaper accounts of the first two or three months is a just well complex case. This was and how many people were involved. And you can't get a sense of that region, the newspapers, but one.

You really want to investigate the case. It becomes a con explodes out in all directions, very big case. So every you'd already mentioned that the black dahlias real name is Elizabeth short and she was not from the area. I believe she was from massachusetts right? Tell us where she's from You know where it comes from and how she ended up in calais and how she got. there when she arrived long run into that little oleson background. okay, so Elizabeth short was born on the twenty ninth of July nineteen. Twenty four, a birthday was last week, should have been ninety two she was born in hyde, massachusetts and raising medford by her parents phoebean clear short shoe.

It's. The middle of hives sisters were junior dorothea, Elizabeth, eleanor Muriel and right around the time of the big depression, starting in nineteen, thirty cleo, the father abandoned the family and in fact he left his car by a bridge. Apparently you know hoping that people would think he committed suicide? Now nineteen forty one elizabeth, sixteen she went to florida to escape com, whether she'd had a asthma and lung lung problems. In fact, she had lung operations of her mother centre every year during the winter months to florida and then back up to medford for the rest of the year in nineteen forty two when she was eighteen, her father. Suddenly every surface is alive and he sent money to Elizabeth to visit them and go hey ho california, which is up by san francisco. An area should stay with him for a short while in there,

down to allay. I should point out that back then from the east coast to the west coast. Normally fly airlines. The airline industry was not what it is. Today. You went for men Boston, medford to open just go anywhere, usually training, so it was kind of a big deal too many days to cross country. So she came out in a ninety forty two to be with the father and they move greeks. It briefly to l a a and forty two or nineteen forty three. I'm like she spliff after a arguments with the father that she didn't take care of the place she was always out dating men and a january nineteen. Forty three. She went up to camp cook, which is a military and I know that she seemed to have a thing for

men in uniform from what right and what my research was. In january, nineteen, forty three. She went to northwest from l a to camp cook which is military base or on the coast there, and she worked at the a px post exchange as a clerk. She was voted camp, cutie or cutie of the week um, and she had a thing for men in uniform as a lot of girls. At time too, swore an activist during the war not postwar yet and most of the forty nine employees, issues in cities round the area around camp cook and instead, amber. She was arrested in santa Barbara restaurant for a the minor were liquors served now. The short didn't drank the chosen in the place and she's under age.

The policewoman who arrested her later named Mary one cooker. I took her in after a booking her for the arrest took her into her house for nine days, or they got to know each other and marry the policewoman thought Elizabeth us to get back to the east coast and they won't you letter. So two things to note here One thing is the rose tat let's find out what's left left by now yoke of her in her newspaper andrews did mention that she'd senior citizens would like to say how she could oppose and shall off. This rose tattoo above her. That's everything out I heard the rumour that of a tattoo similar to that, but We only rumour that well that later on

People talk about the rumor, has it didn't exist, but when the police woman is caught in those papers is having seen it I'd, be better governance, nothing to listen to me! Well things! You don't know it now containing now. The other thing that's important is at this point to the outer fingerprints. She was fingerprinted, obviously during the rasper she's also fingerprinted at camp cook, because that was a military job and so on your fingerprints are put on file and sent to the fbi for the database. What were you gonna say on there? If I was, I was going to ask you about the er to take us to the days or maybe the week, a leading up to a her discovery and january. Ok, mit forty, three or four. Your parents were taken

I had a lot of the shadow wanderlust. She was doing a lot of back and forth between florida, a and medford and in nineteen forty four she's in florida and met the first romances offending gordon a soldier, and she met another guy senior in Matt gordon army flyer. Fact, winner after she died. There's not a lot of love letters in your suitcases. Many were I mailed after VJ day, which is victory over Japan day, she had a telegram that Matt, Gordon or one of our first serious romances was killed in the air crash in india, I'm in April forty six. Ah, she left medford for the last time a to allay the chicago and aren't you ever read this, but there is mention she has an interest in making forty six merle

stir a girl in the chicago suburb. Have you heard about this susan dignan yeah? I have okay, that's it I dunno? Probably I want to get into it too much because I haven't confirmed it, but apparently when she is in Chicago she opposes recorder and looked into the murder, which has happened a year before I'd. I'd have to look into it so she went to chicago indianapolis and then, after the last angeles arriving in the summer of nineteen, forty six and at this point Back in nineteen eighty nine, I was reading Eric everything I could on the case. All the old newspaper, clippings or few bucks now occurred today, mostly sections of books. I was outlining my screenplay play and I decided to ring up the producers of achieving movie. Nineteen. Some teething will be called. Who is the black gallia

I thought I'd interesting to get a the ages tape. They didn't have. One and I'd never seen the movie they actually. At that point I thought. Well, maybe I shouldn't watch a lot of the influenced and a little well odd note, as I work with ronny Cox, the actor who played scientists found when detectives in that film anyway. I couldn't tell you the whole of a copy of that and under its new tourist, I thought the greatest speak with some people and all. it's yours so alive and if I could find them, and in April nineteen magnificent, the first of may inquiry letters to the lapd personal evasion is it to leave investigated in the black doktor hanson. One of them had died. a famous brown, the element of still alive. So the first letter went to him and went back to the newspaper

and you got names of a you know. Lapd officials who seem like they might know something. One was named Paul freestone you'll, see a university division and watch commander and one of the The currency. Second letter went out to him. and I also left a phone message- was detected johnsing John, who is actually still in charge of the earth with a still open case. He denies interim night in eighty legendary that active most seniority on lapd badge number one. So I said, it was two letters off caprice, freestone and brown, and waited for a phone call. On ST john back to nineteen forty six, a it was the shorter lives in california. She first arrived in long beach. I'm a few days after Alan ladd Veronica film was released in the l, a area that was called the blue dahlia

She and gordon filling her earlier romance live together for awhile now hotel there. They moved briefly to hollywood, and then he had to be I'm not sure if they split up or because his military service or what but she made her way to hollywood or she's. Pretty much spent the last six months of her life in hollywood, staying at various motels rooming houses for girls, lot of these different places and there's been talk or question of whether she was really interested in acting not all the account. You read it and say: oh she's, an aspiring access for those actually not too much evidence of that people who knew her mentioned it. It didn't seem like a serious pursuit of hers, when she was in hollywood, sheer roomed with her,

a woman named and Haas and and and was in the film business or she worked as a stand in an extra and the things she said about. The Elizabeth Short's aspirations of becoming an actress was quote. Unquote. She used to hang around at mdc at sunset vine waiting to be discovered, we'll get right back to nick and mark after this click beer break, This father's day find the perfect gift for the dad who loves the perfect yard right now, as a fifty dollars on the steel fsc, fifty seven battery trimmer set set includes the FS a fifty seven battery trimmer, plus the ak ten battery and a wanna one charger offer only in forty nine dollars ninety nine cents, real steel, find you. Is it still dealers that come what may nine? Ninety nine emma s s our pe offer ballot through six eighteen, twenty three of participating dealers while supplies last

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looking at her life and our movement. There is not a lot to support that she was dying to get to the film industry and if you don't want, say shoot hanging around and hanging out waiting to be discovered. She seemed to be somebody that kind of good hung around and hunger at a lot of different places. She was pretty social and you're just been another one of her hang out my burden one of the people. She a roomed with a in hollywood, a guy named mark hanson, now yeah, there's a house on Carlos avenue right near the corner of gower were actually another famous case in l a it would happen in sixty three and enfield anyway. Mark Hanson was the co owner the place called the florentine gardens

night club with like lie, orchestras and answers one night he was theatre owner. He unwanted real estate, he down below theaters in ST. Let's see how many theaters in l a he started at a place called the mark, how theatre and nineteen twenty five silent film actress, Alice, called Calhoun. The name of cow was contraction of their first names. Mark us. So now, most of the time she was in roaming houses and they had a premature idea limited at that time for hotels and why not allow parliament's work. All hotel apartments were stay longer term, but at this time The short was a hopping around a lot, and at this point I can see why became confusing to the police, because everything starts to get murky. Now, and at times in bedford, in florida, she had jobs is a waitress, usually another

In hollywood, as far as I can find out, she never had a job, but she here about six months since you stating a lot of men And that was one of the reasons the case became too hard to solve is because she she knew so many men, and she did so many men, and Awesome tell me later when I interviewed her quote unquote and betty was always getting herself into hot water. She'd come home crying because some guy roughed her up she'd just want me to hug her and tell her. It was going to be all right and quote during this time roomy houses. One out she spent about three weeks, I believe in november forty six and we can have. in october, and luxurious back and forth to mark hansen's elsewhere should live several weeks at a time that were and half with their roommates friends, I don't know a factual stayed in the same way

together, I believe they might have had a separate rooms. Marchand Susan, very interesting guy statistics, thirty four years short sea there and you get my how to think of her up again, what came out later, what I found out from an taught I'll get into that load? It gives us a lot of talk about him quite a bit well, one thing I should point out when, when she was dating all these men- and you know somehow able to pay rent and he's rooming houses and whatnot is a parachute around. Like a girl, at the time you know you're having a date with a soldier, smiling woman and it's pretty easy to get a free dinner. I'm the and these people came out and books later in the false council of prostitution

rumours that was all bs or no evidence of this whatsoever. She went on dates should allow a man and there were hundreds of them. I place check them all out, but in all and it is with the man she tat is absent and ground on all three men who had sex with her. And I did ask and half about the prostitution in her words, she fell out, said absolutely not said that he was a decent person. Shouldn't smoke should didn't rink heck. She never even should come so. The impression I get is just a. Canada nomadic while you're at it is interesting to have no job during that time but there's a secretive that that's why

one of the other difficulties of those cases- shoes very secretive, um. She wrote letters to her mother, I think twice a week or her mother is quoted the papers. At the time as saying I had no idea what she was having difficulties for. Letters were always cheerful. She was ambitious and full of life. So around this time or during your five or six months in hollywood or just taking a lot of rooming houses. She was always back and forth to mark Hansen's house and they clearly had a relationship now come out later, with martinson being in dubai? The police is very, very cagey barrier kept it's close to the bone. He he claimed that, ah you know he didn't take too much of her, but when you read the statements of the anton others and how it's boyfriend leo or mark hanson, really quote unquote had again for rebellion impact and came out later.

This house is that we want possessor now allow the girls at mark Hansen's house. You know, I suppose some were dancing launching gardens and the talk. What I said in girls that stay there he'll come onto the piano really a particular thing about Elizabeth sport now early december around the eighth, I'm mark handsome dropped her at the chance or apartments, and he told police later. That was the last time he saw or spoke with her december eighth. Now, all of a sudden lose of shorts makes a there's. This part of the cases kind of butter considered like this weird shift. She goes from five or six months in hollywood just

drifting around to all of a sudden going to san diego and where she apparently knew nobody and ah she showed up. I took a bus down and ended up sleeping overnight in the aztec theatre and a young girl that worked in the dorothy french felt sorry for her until and her home or certain your mother, Elvira, french soldiers was last month was spent pretty much in san diego. She dated quite a bit one guy. She a dated was a guy that picked her up on a street corner or she was walking around. Apparently he was driving a guy named Robert manley, nicknamed red, because he had red hair Now sometimes December they dated and It was a merry guy. His wife had just had a baby,

explaining the latest or later in the newspapers that are, you know he just thought. He'd pick up this girl to test himself to see if you really loved his wife or not and are going to start had some. Problems after the baby, so they dated in december and are at some point you know, she's. Staying with oliver and dorothy french a month, she wrote her mother saying that she was working at the naval hospital where she wasn't a Elvis what did naval hospital tissue jerry, secretive even with your mother and one I assume the natural thing you don't want. Your parents, too, worried are having difficulties, but she could He was having submission,

she in her life and the big question a lot of researchers have is. Why did she go to san diego and are the circumstances of how she latched and why she came back now? There's talk of what people call the san diego three, apparently after a month at elba and dorothy, French's or three people came to the door at night, two men and a woman knocked on the door and apparently elizabeth short Quite terrified insisted that nobody answer the door or who knows who they they were. We haven't gone out to this day, but she was frightened and the next day a red center, a telegram saying he'd, be there again like seer, and she took advantage of that and asked red if he'd a driver up to l a so they left the next day. The eighth or you had to see some clients part way, so they spent the night in the motel

well, she later claimed it was a celebrate, and ah this is at the or was it called the swallows in in San Juan capistrano, and they left the next day january, the nice and are traveling to l a and ah, she said at this point, she's going to see her sister who's coming down from berkeley. that she's meeting her sister at the biltmore hotel, the first she wanted. She wanted red to help her drop her bags off at the greyhound station, because you could check your bags in there and just leave them for a while. So they dropped her bags off. He dropped her at the biltmore are around six thirty and a

yeah back to his life. No, the last time she was seen or she was seen at the biltmore from about six thirty to around ten or ten thirty. That night she was seen are making. calls at one point. She went to the western union dashed away to get change and they confirmed sighting of her alive, or is he a bell captain now there's a lot of talk in books like jack Webb's, the badge how you know she walked out the door and tipped his hat and she walked on all that. Well, that's! That's not true. What happened was the bell captain saw her and he had been watching for our position is very attractive, and he knows- She seemed to recognise somebody outside the door. I didn't see a person or a power which he walked out. The doors announced last anxious seen again and can I got back to me

Ninety nine her well, what I believe wasn't she of their an officer that believes that she had seen and talk to elizabeth short that that evening later that evening, leaving the. I have not read that account. I can't remember the officers name, It was that it was a female officer. I don't remember her name myrtle, something because there was an officer, who said after after murder should signals was short, ran up to her and said? Ah, my boyfriend's trying to kill me. His arms are officer, Mcbride reported. The architect is two days

after they found Elizabeth body, the sheets movement with Elizabeth short hours before she was killed and she had she is. She could set what you it Did she was afraid of somebody or an old boy friend? and while I've I've read that story in a steep hotels book, I'm not sure about it. I mean it seems viable, but I dunno when it occurred. So I haven't haven't mentioned here: I'm if you want to learn, go back to nineteen eighty nine yeah, I was going to say before there was talk of a lot of peoples claim they saw her and they were never confirmed. Yeah. Let's go back to night now continue with the dot more actually, researchers my letters to detect finance brown brown and for reached town waiting for a call back from Saint John. I gotta go message from all: so he said what do you want to know what the black dahlia and his

arizona and excellent work. I I'll talk to you and I asked if I could tape recorder me, he said that'd be fine, so uh I drove out. I think it was the next day to mesa arizona and I'm up until this point. You know The whole case didn't seem that real to me I mean it was just newspapers and pictures and all that, ah the one I met Paul. it became very real value. It's a ninety years old at the time. Blind and his mind was just like a a amazing memory. You know I guess to make up for the fact that he had no sight. He could remember details of of every back then and yeah sitting in his chair. He never got up the whole time. I knew him and the first words out of his mouth were to his wife grace he said, get the picture, and ah I remember that very distinctly. His wife walked into another room, came back and gave me a eight by ten black and white.

Ah of the currency, in the black of the black dahlia Elizabeth short's body paint, there was paul looking down er and er. It was very interesting to see to experience that and er before a tape recorded Paul. I mentioned something which are mentioned now, which is a great connection I had when I started talking to all these retired lapd detectives and officers, is that my grandfather had grown up with a gun in william parker. Do you remember that his nephew, not ok, William parker was the chief of police in l, a from the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixty six and is a lapd legend very, very respected by all the cops, in fact, the name to the police building parker center after game every time you see jack, webb and all driving that shows go into the building at parker center. So when I was interviewing Paul and all the other cops later

by mentioning my grandfather. Being a childhood didn t, tinny, trendline parker opened up doors, like you wouldn't believe is. It was quite quite interesting. So I started taking Paul and he told me you were back like those of the case which argue into as we go down the story and I think, all So by this time had found a leaden enjoys bursting your or betty or singer she's, the one who found the shorts body that early morning and january ninety point seven. So cutting back to january fourteenth- this is a mid way early in the morning about ten thirty, a choice or a better burst year was pushing her baby in a stroller down source, south norton avenue between coliseum thirty, nine,

St and ah, when I interviewed her in nineteen ninety, she told me she was just simply going to get a shield repaired on the shoe, a very normal mundane task and she saw some broken glass on the sidewalk. can push the stroller to move around it and something else. I caught her attention. She told me, look like a mannequin broken into, and he was very startling to her. It didn't occur to her at the time. It was a dead body, but it was very strange and she pushed her a stroller down the street, so she had to call the police report. Is she went to the first house? There's nobody. There, the second, Apparently she was a bit. It was kinda registering more that it could be a dead person and not a mannequin, and she was upset enough that the people wouldn't let her in, but they said they would call the police. So the initial call came in the universe

station and they send out officers perkins and fetched his child. call the police radio went out as a three nights man down or talks, intoxicated person down and the two officers arrived and silos something much more get into this whole thing of all these reporters and cops saying: why was the first person at the scene and this and that there's one reporter who wrote a book about it and had this dramatic account of him showing up before anybody in police, drawn their guns and all this hogwash or the first year First of all, the other is there's one report of a young reporter claiming it he either arrive shortly. four or just after the officers seen and led her. He had noticed her eyes were open. Such a loan of garbage

essentially went like this very bursting or went to a house I found it in the car came, I think it around ten fifty times in the morning to university station. They send out officers, perkins and fitzgerald first people there who saw something we have as much more name they radio to end the universities since some detectives over here Now that the report, which I am as well fowler and that whole account of in arriving first officer, stronger ganz, is just So it's a big lie. In fact of all people, anyway, it already is news about twenty five or so everybody is very agreeable and only too happy to talk to me, except for well fowler. The first things on the phone was I charge one thousand dollars for an interview by that point. I'd read his book and I'd uncovered even more.

I know stuff that wasn't true, and I thought I don't need to talk to this guy, but back to the crime scene, a perkins and fitzgerald rated in the first or two officers to come out. You know of any stature, lieutenant Jess Haskins and I believe, a guy named SJ lambert now I know that haskins was there, but because they interviewed him and by this point the man at the first guy interviewed the tenant all creased and his watch commander university he'd heard about it and he decided he'd been to drive out and check it out, and I have used both freestone haskins when they're in their nineties are, and what both guys described to me is really what this mate made. This motor stand out as unique, and that's why one reason why

to this day are fascinated with it. Now guilds are unsolved, murders there's thousands of them hundreds. Probably every year a you know a major city or if Elizabeth shorted and shot or stabbed in an apartment or downtown or hollywood, and it became an unsolved murder, it would have made the papers for a day and would disappeared. We'd never know about her, but it was the way in which she was killed. I don't a free sun has since described. You know what we all know the body lying there cut in half, not a drop of blood and Haskins described as being pale as marvel.

She is positioned deliberately with their legs straight out and spread, open she'd been a bound and apparently tortured, or both both men and all of texas, later said, is that she has issues put deliberately on display deliberately arranged with her arms above her head, her head. Looking towards the street and her mouth was cut from ear to ear or just a credibly. The vile mutilations involved here now are sergeants enhancing, and I find this brown arrived about ten or fifteen minutes later a finest said when he arrived, it seems already full of newsman news women. At the time reporters had to police scanners like they do today, so they heard about it and everybody was going to the scene. Herring. Fires were signed by homicide, captain jack down how to head the investigation and

I get the whole crime see here and all the details, but what was it nothing was there anything He found other than her anyway, there's, not a drop of blood. Obviously she looks to have been posed and, of course, she's bisected in now that's extreme. There were. There were now go ahead now, ass brown got out the re pinker, who is the head of the scientific investigation division, s idea, the crime lab came out and a couple of things with hand out. There's nobody the sea in the daytime Paul said one drop of lottery blood, I believe on the sidewalk, and there was a empty cement sack which proudly had another drop of blood there. We'll take a tell right there at the scene was it is due,

it's a body when they moved her and they found out later that they do sell in l a at that time from two and six am which tells them the body was placed after two The girls who told the body at least tat had been put face down. First, because her words grass on a chess, is that you couldn't based first and turned her over they did find some fibers on the body and then the body cavities at the scene as well, which I'll get into in a second a there is postmortem lividity, which is the blood settling on the front of her face and body here, and there indicating that she had been facedown her after death. So that's what they determine right there at the crime scene, lieutenant free I was in charge of the canvas which at this time was a huge were talking city

many many square miles, every hotel, I'm out every hotel, motel house and apartment, was checked. In fact, Paul told me and I'll quote: every morning I had to have an assembly room full of officers. We have enough in my division to take care of it, so we brought in officers from all over the city we'd strike out in every inch of the area to check every house. There wasn't one within miles of it in check if nobody came to the door when we first went through. We took that address, since in fact, that's nice for the next day, so we never missed a house, a huge canvas going on asking people if they'd heard any screaming, seen any women's clothing thrown out. Are there any medical students for doctors in the house, any items burning and incinerators? and that was where they started up while the camp

this guy on harry and finest accompany the girls. By to the morgue fingerprints paragraphs check missing repressions reports and I gotta take the finest brown is dollar gave me, and he said it was closed on quotas and the usual investigation. Well, of course it was anything but that was becoming, The apparent already now standard operating, a stranger, see you at this point as you get in this initial assessment from the air, the coroner or the autopsy surgeon and what they found out about. The bristles was better cocoa fibre, apparently quite a common kitchen, scrubbing brash, some provided with don't wash claim with a cup fiber brush. Contrary to all the rooms, you read about her being org.

Removed all all this stuff. I'm no, the ah they're all intact and to call freestone said the body cavities were full and of course, now we get into the whole thing of what type of person did this there's all sorts of talk that, oh it had to be a doctor or pr It's not at all. Ah, it seems, like survey, been a little bit of surgical finesse to die. You know cut the body to bisect like that, but one thing Paul freestone noticed looking down and she said it was almost as if somebody was dressing, a deer which uh uh I dunno. If you can get into that, that's a whole new top. I'm right at this. At this point they had no id on the girl, but they had her fingerprints. So they checked the lapd l, a sheriff's, a didn't find anything

And it's important to note by the time you know. There's all the reporters are involved, or it's been just starting already become a big case at the time there's kind of a race between the newspapers and the police are four major newspapers, the herald, examiner all the herald express lh times and daily news. They had a Obviously, there is no twitter anything those days, but these papers had several. Editions morning afternoon the evening edition? That's how people got their news, so the papers want to be on top of things and with the police to report has had kind of a people have described it as a symbiotic relationship. You know, there's investigation on two friends, sometimes competing sometimes

the thing and if see a newspaper's got a a lead first, they wanted to skip and they would, you know, make deals with the police. While you have our information, if you give us a front page photo of you whatnot, I'm obviously, at this time they're trying to find out who she is, that checked fingerprints in l, a there's no match. So the next step is to get her. prints to the f b. I at this point, though, there's this big storm over the mid west, so they want to. They actually did center fingerprints by air mail special delivery, but it was going to take days and days to get to washington, and this is the first time they actually, the the press came in and kind of helped out. You know dealmaking. Well, we can help

But you gotta give us a scoop of the ah the papers era exam or had what was called a sound soda machine that was kind of a really early precursor of the fax machine. They use it in those days to send news photos across the country to the other hers papers. So what the police did was a brought the a girl's, fingerprints examiner. They took each fingerprint and took a photograph of it, blew it up to eight by ten and sent them individually to the f b. I Now believe it or not, the fdr came up with a match or overnight just took them a few hours, and I think that's pretty incredible and it is but I've seen photographs of the the fdr fingerprinted room at that time, It's like a stadium sized room with hundreds of clerks and stacks of files and fingerprints, and they did that

and here is obviously by hand and by I they found this girl's ideology within just a few hours. What do you know there was a huge print. The heel impression found at the zoo, paul for eastern dimension that there was a heel, print and others drop of blood on that he'll prints but here I drive a blessing gets confusing. Has one person says one thing or another account. yeah the the original reports. Those are the ones that are going to tell you, but of course nobody can see those I was. I had heard that there was a heel print. I'd also heard that there was a heel print that had a what might have been a Eluted drop! That's what I heard. That's that's! What Paul told me is dilute a drop of blood on the hill, which would we, which would be similar to the diluted blood that drop that was found.

Hungary is that Hungary yeah on a concrete sack reality would you get to the ground which go along with her being cleaned and scrubbed? yeah it's interesting without getting to graphic. Obviously she was cleaned and wash down and they did find cocoa iver brushes and the head of the fires are, I mean, that's a course, I got very brows, coast again in a cavity someone and according to Paul freestone, they found a dry, a watery blood on your print by the site, walk or in the street and adopt the lottery blood on a concrete sat near by so one can assume its that's from the blood is deluded because the washing down We know what is one one graphic morgue photo Elijah

see that a she's laid on the metal table and you can see to laugh very rivers of blood coming from her body cavity is, if that's the remaining blood, you don't have time. For that part, I'm just letting you know yeah that's the plan. It should be pointed out, though, that you would talk about potential a postmortem bruising to the face where she would then lying face down, and if she were. While I don't visualize stuff, but I do I mean soon recover your person have. This is gonna, be so bloody and messy that you you'd, have to arrange her azure washing hurrah, maybe a put her in the battle for a while, while.

How does car ready? I dunno it's like your whole life to think about details like that, but there there was possible evidence that that she might have been dragged for a short period of a I've been, and I've never heard that you know When you look at the crime scene, photos are they're black and white. I've got high rez ones. There are. You know, exchange marks on the body it's hard to tell if they're dirt or blood or lividity um. I don't know if the coroner to color photographs by back. Then I consider that they had the utility that would those who tell a lot more. He can tell a lot from LA from color shot so the earth they got kicked back from the fbi. An idea on the girl and- Her name is lose the short twenty two of high massachusetts. Now at this point the papers exam we're being involved. They managed to get to it,

sure shorts mother Phoebe for the police did. Jimmy riches and media city ever had a guy named wayne sudden call Phoebe short, and what he did was the common said Jimmy said is to wait and get everything you can before you tell her so wayne Sutton gets on the phone to Phoebe short and told her that her daughter Elizabeth won a beauty contest and got as much background on her as he could before. He finally told her that I'd been murdered or what a nice thing huh so the lapd officially notified tragedy mark that goes along with your opinion of followers story being bogus, because back then one thing we should point out: it was it was a razor was selling the newspapers, a bit of a war back then move itself the most into the sound, the faster than if you put

you know it believes that leads them and they were chasing the cops. They were chasing the ambulances and end. They were now you're right, you're, right and as it was brush, I'm competition and it was it was some reporters were fabricating things too embellish the stories and make them better or to to to better their careers and to better the the sales of their papers that's what it was all about. That was the name of the game like he said when I play the lead and at this point once the lapd know. I've missed short she'd, be on arrangements to fly out to california, but you still had a storm going on, so it it took her a few days sure it's father player with a family in alliance of kingsley drive the question again, apparently, whose can belligerent them, even though he was the only family.

In l, a refused to identify his daughter's body, so the whole thing starts off as kind of a a it's, not very nice. For many many currents. I'm of course, by this time Elizabeth's name and photo has hit the newspaper, so the police started to receive a ton of calls and a ton of tips, and ah One thing that you've got many things going on at the same time. Here are the examiners trying to find out who she is information they're in a race and the police want to find out who she is calm at one point on the the day after or early in the morning, around eleven and toss. Apparently, the scene was just a face in the paper or she read a name and todd and put two and two together that you know this yeah. This is her

and she called homicide and within an hour she was at homicide, a central homicide which is on the ground floor of city hall. In those days that she came with mark hanson

who drove her and a needless to say this report? Is there flashing, a photographs of, and you can see in one particular photograph? She kind of looks like a deer in the headlights. She's got kind of a blank look on her face. The reporters at the time asked mark Hanson. He was, he was kind of keeping in the background, and he said he was and show, for course, which was not known in the first ten days of the investigation you had literally hundreds of officers are, are so many divisions. You also had a division called metro division, which was not an official building or or a lapd station. It was a kind of clothing division. They took all the metro division officers and their tanis in the area. Sending people every which way to the question are all the all the people who are funny and tips, one thing the exam or about a apparently little bit before the lapd was

as the shorter have been to san diego after l a so they did something which actually is quite clever. They they sent reporters down to san diego or to find elva and dorothy french. Then they also had reporters drive up highway north from san diego to l, a to stop at every motel and hotel along the way to see if they could find out who this guy was an elizabeth short stay there with a guy and trying to find out who's. guy was because he was alive. This guy read, but they didn't know his name at the time. But red was the last is she new to the scene with her alive, so pretty clever. The way they did that um but again you've got the race between the the press, herald examiner and the lapd. When I interviewed Jess Haskins. Ah, he told me a when the lapd found out about dorothy,

in the older french down in san diego. They sent him a they're going to send him down, but then they found out that Xander found out first and were flying the french girls, a mother and daughter up to l a so they sent just to burbank airport to try and intercept them. If he'd just missed them, some of you figured out that they were being put up. The built more by the examiner suggests and Harry Hansen went out and interview them. There. and also this time the reporters were finally lucky in a motel swallows in San Juan. Astronomers oil is the short in this mystery man and state of the night. And the a sharp eye to hotel owner got the license number of stewart baker of the car and it listed the reds real name. You know they check in as red natalie and

Elizabeth short. So now they knew who the mystery man was, and the reporters in l a people showed up or read. Natalie's tour and his wife harriet answered with a three three month old baby, but they were so they've tracked down red brett manley and he. From what I heard he was pretty good to speak with them is out. Is that what you found alone that entirely well, when I wikipedia reporters are dunno at which ordered happened, but they showed of a red store and talked to his wife and she said well a reds non townies in san francisco with his friend harry potter, but he's driving down right. So red was arrested, hurry palmer's, hausa the eagle rock and taken hollenbeck station and. Yeah now isn't hearts. It is like the us.

If the guy in the world. His is the only suspect as it turns out. You know. Of course he didn't do it. It was a and then he dropped her off. oh god- and I was last you saw Bernier now by two, but until they somebody they kept down I'll get him a lot to talk to the press, underwater examiner reporter the case for many years and you're crazy thing is yeah. He was determined not to be a viable suspect. He was released and, of course, the papers are there, taking pictures of he and his wife harriet a kissing and making a very dramatic film. Laugh the grass and I look at those photographs and go well. How wonder? Why wonder? Why talk about that night? Because he She's, obviously,. You're running around it.

around the climate. Is there he claims that and that their relationship was not romantic, I'm so to speak. Ah, but yeah. I had heard that he, when they were grilling him pretty good, that he had offered to Do you take the polygraph? I don't know he ended up taking a polygraph tat. He would take a polygraph who pass here. They ve never in southern ten fall to turn at the time factor. I can do that in later years in the early fifties ah and they asked them to. Ah they I don't know why they kept going back to him because it was. You know, first of all, alibi what I, but anybody viable suspected that time nightly invention The polygraph earlier Jerusalem several times to him

Very strange, ah I I interviewed a guy in an ad called who is a private investigator and he was hired by the who is the black dahlia tv, new movie producers and, like nineteen, seventy four to track down people from the chase him here when interviewed red living in a trailer park at the time and It told me that when he met red he was very friendly. He didn't really know why and was there to talk to him, and I had a few together, I'm going add, said one here too. To get her release. warm for a movie about the black dye of the red, got really upset and chased them out of the trailer with an axe. So there's this case a solid read for many years, so they've they've talked to red and he was a you know. One of the last men to

Then seeing her fading her, where do they go from there after they clear him, we ve got to find somebody else to talk to well. It took them some time to clear, read a polygraph in an interview and then the data from hours and hours. One interesting thing at this point is there in this case the starting to become the oj of its time. It was postwar the victim jean pretty. She came out from east coast to hollywood. But the case was about to get even bigger and more sensational mc has to report. checking around a long beach drugstore, where it was a hung out or found out that you know it's all. We don't know really where, where it came from, but somebody had given her the nickname, the black, After perhaps that movie, the blue dahlia, which was playing at the time she was in long beach. Now again, it's like, I was the first

the current in know I was there is talk over the years, who came up with their name, black tie and jack smith and allay times columnist. I interviewed, Been for years with him, then he finally admitted this was gaining diva means another reporter and jack said that one year acknowledging that wasn't handler came up with a man. Getting it away was like giving way the pulitzer prize but when, when that name, the black diet newspapers It was all over back in those days the papers love to to give titles to these murders. In fact, in the thirties, Ella was called. The harder headline capital of california headline capital where, headline capital of the world. Something like that.

and they always seem to have a a color or a flower like the white orchid or the red had discussed, and, of course, when that name, the black dahlia hit a couple of days into the murder. You know it's pretty much. All over you've got black, has dark and mysterious, and ah dahlias a flower that nobody probably really knows what it looks like a that is, Slowly, the king dinner. They got more had more cause. People claiming they saw was but short after. She left the bill or they all had to be checked out, and I was a huge job for the blue

all the time, but there was never a defendant citing her of her after she left the biltmore and finest citizens. Tape- and I quote, but also have many calls phone calls from people that claimed or thought they had seen the girl at different times in different places and many times the same times in different places, far removed from one another. We interviewed thousands of people we spent three days without stopping or arresting no sleep till we got some of the things answered and quote in fact, finances daughter told me in nineteen ninety one that her dad and didn't even have a chance to change his shirt for the first three days so with with all the people that Elizabeth short knew her a nomadic lifestyle or secretiveness

all the people that claim to have seen her. It became a huge and complex case right from the word go and are, after about nine or nine days. The key the case seemed to be petering out, at least on the newspapers when a jimmy richardson, the city, editor robots, and I got a phone call and are probably familiar with this. That went something like to answer the phone city desk. Is this the city editor? Yes, what did junior Richardson boy said? Well, MR riches,

I must congratulate you on what the examiners on the black dahlia case agenda says. Thanks for going to help you with the boy says you seem to have run out of material. Maybe I can be of some assistance and the person on the phone who Jimmy later described in his biography is being very ah almost arrogant and taunting apparently revealed a few things about the murder, the only to texas with no I'm, and he promised to send in the few things that she she had with her when she quote: unquote, disappeared and the next day I believe in tr. Twenty four people say that the killer sent the letter to the police blah blah blah. No, he didn't. Ah, it was actually addressed to the papers and that was intercepted terminal, annex post office by a postal inspector

is, not alone almost normal size. It had a paste from other newspapers on it here is dies belongings, letter to follow, and I didn't have to get Larry, harness sure, serious researcher he found here, here from a movie at that time and the letter arrived and it was a smell of gasoline, had been soaked apparently or washed with gasoline it was damp inside and the gasoline they determined was to get rid of fingerprint evidence Now. Obviously, if you have the word dahlias belongings, dahlia on the clipped and cut and pasted and put on the letter, it means the killer is following the case in the papers, which is really not surprised.

right. So the open will open the envelope and outcomes. Elizabeth short's, birth certificate, social security card photos of the greyhound, a claim checks for her luggage and an address book stamp mark anson, so mark hansen's back in the picture he claimed later, which are apparently, is true that the smith had taken the power the address book from his desk and who is using. It is her on most beer. Yesterday that were in her handwriting when they open address book they followed. Several pages have been cut from the book I heard torn out cut out. You know many different pages. I've also read that was cut out there, sharp instrument the paragon preventing over. I offer you read some some will say that there was one page missing in some will say that there were many criteria, can that's a hundred it off yeah, but either way you look at

there, three more names and address book, blackmore lot more names to check out. Of course. The other thing we should point out, though too, is that richardson did not I'm that's the editor's name, correct, richardson, the city of light yeah. He he chose not to You know he could have printed in the next day paper. Having received that phone call and see he decided not to correct, I am exactly how it went down. But my suspicion is finest brown. Hair hasn't said: don't talk about it. Don't mention is a let's see if the letter or lives I mean. Certainly he would have told them, especially if the killer. The talk on the phone and reveal details about the murder. The only should now he wouldn't bring patent papers silent the blow the whole case, So my reservation and say asked him to keep quiet and when the letter arrived, they went from there.

In the letter arise. The address book is one of the items in his friend. What are the other idols birth certificate resources to retard follows greyhound quaint check the luggage and more chance must address book the interesting thing here is here comes markets than the picture damage it makes me wonder. Obviously, if you have elizabeth shorts, personal possessions that she had with her. When she disappeared, the apple of came from the killer, putting my mark hansen's address book or his address book that she has lifted. That has his name on it. That puts him in the hot seat and it makes me wonder, or was it deliberately taunting the press and the police? Or was this an attempt to? Ah, you know make mark nervous. I think it's the latter, but we'll get into that

yeah, no more or less from january to march the the the ah actually, the to the black dahlia was front page for thirty three days straight or getting into february and march. It was in unless of course answered a brown, many others with lapd or stop showing the case and accurate hansen, water off until you retired and nightingale three, and as well as power over the years. But what happened Elizabeth short faded into obscurity, and once every few years highlight irons and hurl examined, would do canada and anniversary story. They did one. Seventy one in nineteen fifteen. Nineteen, seventy one nineteen eighty seven around generated chum Alex one, and it is better.

it's disappeared and the unsolved. By the summer. Nineteen forty eight hundred and ninety two suspects have been eliminated out of three hundred and sixteen total by march of nineteen. Fifty, the DA investigation suspect list at twenty of the most promise, by nitrates, everyone there had already been thirty three concessions that grows, who I think on this ship, sixty over the years. this point, my my own writing stretched at this point, I was stymied, the police were stymied, it's a real case. I was I was at a stopping point or my story covered the first ten days, investigation kind of petered out. The police had no suspects. I had no suspects and also keep in mind. I was doing all my research, an eighty, nine ninety one without the internet. When I need time somebody to interview it meant driving

library going through a wall of sound books from major cities, com, times, waiting for a callback and a newspaper, clothing getting I don't know how many thousands of dollars were spent on four one. One information calls trying to find people said that when I was kind of dead in the water and my girlfriend michelle the one who helped kind it like a fire enemy told me to come in. A break from this case and all your research let's go to the queen mary and stay in the July fourth weekend at the hotel down there. So I said okay and at the queen Mary at the time

Then there's little a store that sold nothing but old newspapers and even really old newspapers, the actual ones entire newspaper, boston, globe, new york, times whatnot and they weren't shapes, are like fifty bucks and I'm kind of looking through these newspapers and there's a headline that says: nightclub owner shot a taxi dancer and I'm reading marc Hansen was a nightclub owner shot by a taxi dancer named Lola Titus in July. where'd you learn to a years after the murder so that a kind of turned my by research into new direction. Of course today, I'm going in, and click internet and click Lola I'll come up with all manner of black dahlia websites and what not to talk about her. But back then. For me, this is a huge thing and it needs find out out more about her. What happened with her shooting mark hansen, who is one of the main blacked? I suspect that now, as.

It worked very well and a long story short is a. She didn't stay with him. I think November nineteen, forty eight briefly, so she already knew him and she showed up in July. a lola had some some mental issues and she told reporters later that she er showed up at MARC hanson's, a quote unquote. I made up my mind that he was either going to love me marry me or take care of me or I was going to shoot him and er according to mark and since statement at the time she did shoot him. According to his statement. At the time a there was no hanky panky, she just kind of came to the door. He shut the door and, and ah she shot him, but she clients are that they made love and she shot him afterwards. Now he was shot in the bathroom shaving now,

about you, but when a strange person shows up at my door, I don't immediately run to the bathroom, take my shirt off and start shaving so whose story you believe I did a little research into her. It was a little tricky to find out things are today, I'm in touch with her cousin and he's also on on a hunt to find out more about lola m. But there are a few interesting things that happened. I ah I spoke to a reporter. Who'd been a crime reporter for the herald, since forty four harold early times. He was a better newsman. em. and he little shop set up in the basement of parker seller, go visit him and even a lot about all these cases, and he worked on the black guy. I mention Lola tyres they allow our level tyler's provision

fuckin broad. I interviewed her in lincoln heights jail the night she was arrested, so I'm I got a lot of region from him and from some port transcripts after she shot mark hansen and at some point you know she said, which is very welcome, very volatile and she said mark hansen's problem, except in the black sea area. Now their different reports were here too, it's her of being the black dahlia killer, but there's no evidence that she ever met this short. So again, as usual. In this case, lots of confusion and there's so many interesting personalities in this case, and they all have interesting names. I must, point that out too I'm poor Lola got railroaded. She got a set off to the state mental hospital. She was at the time I think

Inspiration ended up dying. There are nine years later at nineteen, fifty or seven years later. Ah anyway, she was the last place, a she'd lived and she just kind of died there very sad, but all this information about mark Hansen. Put me put him on the radar again ass, a fund it's very strange when I was looking at her court transcripts. One of the papers I found was a list of people to subpoenas to show up at the shooting trial and they had various people. I'm mark handsome listed and the subpoena said unable at the time. I thought that my nose at the l a sheriff's, often delivered subpoenas. I believe it was on the sheriff's. A a It was the sheriffs deliverance obtain about house honey that the early here's, the guy, was shot out a very prominent

successful business man well known they couldn't ion It is not. It lowers shooting how united time trying to find her. In fact, I was going to college. Books at the library, and I found a lola Titus kansas and I phone her up and I said: are you Lola Titus? Yes, it's an old lady the live in LOS yes, but I was very excited ST lois Hyde said. Did you know our camps and nineteen, forty eight and forty nine. She says no, I worked at you know I worked for mcdonald, douglas corp, or something like that. So that was typical of my research of trying to and people you know the same time. I tried to find detective Jess haskins one of the first officers on the scene, and the when I reached over and grab my local found that night. Why pages

it was in there. I couldn't believe it. I found him up and obtain and he worked or lived in a rest home not far from me and I visited the next day. I couldn't believe he had his named found. Look after forty four years. One I just so up up until now, my research, aside from betty person you're later you found the body most of enemies, subjects, workshops and reporters, and I was about extreme you lucky now. You remember I mention I tried to get a beaches copy of that nineteen. He suddenly by keeping movie. Who is the black dire? I couldn't do it triggers earlier. I told the produce says and what not about I'd call them back in the second Have you answered the phone said? Well, you know there are some archives of one of the producers out in the midwest or all the paperwork all the skies productions and so

call this university on the midwest and they sent me a list of what they had from this tv movie. Who is the black dahlia? And you know it has a list of what you can check off and you order what you want, but there it was hundreds and hundreds of categories and papers to choose from call sheets, location permits, production reports and budgets, the usual things you'd get involved a massive enterprise of making a movie. There was one column that said correspondence, and it said letters of Phoebe short letter to and toss few salute his mother and offers Elizabeth good friend roommate right before the murder. So I take those boxes are sent to check and waited

and after a long wait, I got a package from this university. Are all the call sheets, all the budgets and all that stuff? I didn't really need, but there was a letter production road to Phoebe short or it was basically a ask permission or they didn't use her real name in the tv movie, but a release for and they paid her hundred dollars to kind of tell her story apologizing. You know it happened, and then there was a letter she and toss sorta. The same thing we want is your name that is one hundred dollars and tell your story and it hadn't ass. You re on the matter, so this is, in my once set. However, I believe night. When reading all the next day, I decided to call it

in reno nevada is earned and tossed listed just there was. I got the phone number, so I thought this is big. I thought, after all, I've been taught that it's probably not for. so I found an old lady answer. The phone I said is this and tough and saying yes: no, she goes I'm not sure who is this and I told her my name what I was doing. A marxist women. Do your research for screenplay about the black dire and there was a silence shouldn't say anything should hang up on me so I started again. Instead that I have interviewed lieutenant freestone lieutenant haskins, I talked to ins brown's daughter and she interrupts me does what about Harry Hanson and at that second, I knew it was her, and ah I spoke to and first time in september, ninety one I call her about once a month.

For three months, and we talk for I dunno ninety minutes, one time for two hours and or at the most interesting phone calls I've ever had, and I I really wish I'd taped them. I didn't know at the time you know how to do that, like you, and I are doing right now there are certain things that I want to reveal right now, but I will in my book my screen play, but The most interesting thing was yet it is just a little things like on the way her motion to go up and down now she's very lucid, very more recently altogether. She told me she had spoken to anybody about this case and forty four years now, the tv movie produces contacted her by mail, center? The money?

but it can not. One author claimed claim to interviewed about, and I can tell you that, after talking with an many hours of three months you will mention. Then she never did she told me. I was the first person who call her. I mentioned earlier the photo and the newspaper up her trembling like a deer and headlights amber I found out why the wife had that look on her face. She told me after Elizabeth was killed it shoes going out of her skull. That was the phrase she used and shared a nervous breakdown afterwards, Her boyfriend LEO, I mentioned

One day long, you know, have a drink, you'll feel better and she did and she ended up becoming an alcoholic for many years to eventually she died of cirrhosis of the liver accolades. So when I look at people like and toss and lola Titus aside from you know the Schwartz family, you know who are obviously are hurting and probably still hurt the day. From this case a there were a lot of sort of peripheral victims. In this case it's almost like it ended, but it took a lotta people with it and that's as one of the things. I was starting to feel at this point. I'm one thing that came out with analysts. I should talk a lot. She worked in a movie she'd talk about a certain director, she'd work, but this movie they were doing and how fun it was. I would of have to steer her back, but I had to be careful.

Do it. How did it because in beginning she, you know she's very guarded, she didn't to talk to me too much about it. After she kind of got a liking to me, I'm sure I'll, open up more, but I had to. I had to tread very carefully because it was very emotional for her to to think about this again But aside, you know all these people to read books speculated on bulletin board and read newspapers. Get a sense of the reality of the case and especially when you're talking to somebody who's so closely involved and there there are points and talking with her. We should talk about elizabeth short and I because you're crying and not hysterical crying, but I can hear her crying on the phone

and er. When we got on the subject of mark Hanson, a her voice turned very bitter and almost the first words out of her mouth were. I know, damn well had something to do with it or whoever did it was connected with him and a one thing I noticed is the conviction and her voice. That was what is set out for me. The most was her absolute conviction that there is no doubt in my mind after all this time, that he was mixed up in and dinner? I got his details about various incidents, for example, mark hands and told the police initially that last time he'd seen had spoken with Elizabeth short was december, eight dropping whistler hotel in hollywood. Well, it turns out you know from their investigations. They found out that it was shorthand called mark hanson from san diego in early january. They'd spoken at least

once and you go a different stories from our cancer she would ally and he was very evasive until I caught him in a lie and eventually came out that, ah they check phone records and mark Hanson was one of the people. That was a short call from the biltmore a few hours before she disappeared. Now she was seen calling many teeth I would imagine if you're, essentially, homeless and kind of at the end of your rope, you're calling a lotta people peoples find out who can who can help you out? Where can I get a place to stay for the night and he was one of the people she called and hard to tell me about her arrival a day or two after lisbon short, disappeared and half was adopted now sonoma cow. for you, rich men, the cinema area, northern california, for christmas and the latter

she heard from Elizabeth short was alive. The shorted asked aunt em to send her to, they dollars now. I presume this is like a western union wire. Send money by western media in those days and you wouldn't necessarily nowhere. Somebody was at the time you have to come in. on the form it. You know. I'd say were, or you are, you can send the money to western europe you can pick it up anywhere, so elizabeth short of a twenty dollars, but the point of making his and offers of noise. and she assumed, Elizabeth short was going to berkeley with his sister S. She told several people, and half arrives after christmas generate carefully what was more chances house where she was still living and German conversation that had when she first walks through the door, which was psych answers, hey markers bedding and he

She uh, I'm not sure she is. She was in san diego and that's when Anton came out with a famous quote, which is in the papers, san diego, I thought she was going to berkeley sounds like the wrong way. organ now the long way corrigan references in the papers, which actually told me that phrase when she related incident to me on the thumb because I didn't know, runway cargan was added call my mother, who is like the same age and asked her there's some flyer who kept ending up at the wrong airport or something like that. But I'm and hosted tell me a lot of details about the market. And and and toss, and it is more than just a year for her she was, but he was very jealous of her. He really wanted her in a big way and that he was says to quote an she said. Mark Hansen was not an above more above board, and man.

There's a lot through this. When you're talking suspects, mark Hansen has always been a suspect, or he was a suspect with her aunts and mine is brown with the DA investigation or a reinvestigation of the case. reporting. I might eat fifty. He was a prime suspect for many years. He was not the always aspect allowed people to come out of the box. And are coming out of the box for the various restock. Terrorists varies. people were hurt, elude the short kill her, but. Many of them don't house one thing which is no evidence that many of those suspects even knew its but short or even more That's the one thing we know about my chances as he knew her. She lived at his house. They had a very sort of all colors

dysfunctional relationship- I dont know the ins and outs of it except one, When I read in the papers, the newspapers diamond and hold me I tend to believe and in her in her conviction that mark was involved, that he really He really had a he wanted to make her. I think it was the words he used and or to me, that's very telling. I'm too, I think he did it himself, I'm. I asked and that question I at one point that when I really got to know or felt comfortable to to bring the subject up, I said: do you think, mark physically physically kill elizabeth consult and she said to me she paused, and she said it was too chicken shit to do something like that, but We, it is connected with him again wishes spell it out with such island

Save animals that convection a to me. That was very telling I mean she was there. She lived with them or you can. You can have all the reasoned speculation in the world and It doesn't mean anything unless you have a confession. You have eyewitnesses and unless knowledge have evidence here. We are sixty nine on some years later, it's gonna be hard to find. You will allow that. There's, there's no confession. So far, a witnesses are almost all dead evidence it's in the lapd or files. Even some of that has gone missing over the years and it's it's too far gone to to definitively prove who did it. But at this point all we do have is is

Speculation, I'm I don't. You read the article by michelle dean in the new yorker a few weeks ago about true crime. Addicts know, or I'll paraphrase it was a really good. Article came out a week or two ago she said a kind addicts. Rarely if ever assault crimes are drawn to the most dramatic possibilities and ignore the more tedious solutions. Cold cases have long, attracted hangers on worked for years on quote unquote solving the crime, but never do. The result is complicated.

the uncontrolled speculation. It certainly isn't justice for the victims or their families, a really good article, I have to say I'm a bit guilty of this, I'm also drawn to it, but at the same time I've always tried to be to be truthful about the facts of the case and respectful of the fact that you know these murder victims. Elizabeth short, in this case she's not just some face, or name in an old article, that she was somebody's daughter, somebody's sister His friends she so has relatives alive and I've always tried to be respected. That may no longer authors maker, A lot of money off publishing books, which are quite the opposite choice, say A bunch of interesting stuff that mark has pointed out more, that you guys diamond two in part, two

There's more suspects to discuss, and there is also some weird stories that marks gonna feel assent on plenty more to talk about. Look for part two coming out, I believe to morrow a big thank you to audible, dot, com and casper mattresses. Sure you support the people that support the garage, ass a later this week, you're gonna get a little more garage goodness and for everything. True crime go to true crime. Garage dot com will see tomorrow for part two of the black dahlia, don't litter,

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