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This is true, prime garage- and this is the case- christie more, the seller of nineteen seventy five august. Twenty third fourteen year old christie moments accompanying her friend carol. Reeves to the wool code department, store carol, had received a phone call from a disk jockey inviting or to a chair leading contest. In the parking lot of the departments, the girls had cut through the woods arriving in the parking lot promptly of one forty five p m. The discharge key that they're looking for is nowhere to be found and they do not see a contest in sight. Christie Mullins sits on the guard rail carol, reeves. She goes into the department store to check to see what time it is. Just a few minutes later carol, reeves returns to the parking lot. Christie Mullins is gone.

this week. We have a very strange case strange indeed The case the murder case of Christie mullins takes place august, twenty three nineteen, seventy five and north columbus ohio fourteen year Christy Mullins is swimming at a pool at an apart. Complex on broad meadows boulevard when her fourteen year old friend, carol, reeves ask her. go to the shopping centre. Around I'm thirty pm Christy's friend carol had received a call from somebody claiming that he was a radio discharge. He and he was being a contest. It was like a cheerleading contest and the press who is going to be a pass to the upcoming ohio state. Fair, Christine friend carol, walked to the wall, Department store, the graceless shopping centre. There was just blocks from her home. Discharge, he had said that the contest would take place in the parking lot at one. Forty five p m girls, they walked

through the woods there was a cut through. You could take a couple, different paths from the apartment complex to the shopping center, when they arrive, they were unable to find the discharge key It couldn't see any contest taking place carroll who, excited about. The contest decide that she would go into the war. Co store to double check that to make sure that they had arrived on time when He comes back out she's only in the store for a few minutes. She comes back out and her friend Christy is gone when she last saw christie. Mullins Christie was sitting on the guard rail. They had a long stretch of guard rail there near the department store she had. there and she was. She was waiting friend combing, her hair and just a few go by and carol comes back and Christy's gone. Carol, waited about twenty minutes for christie to return and when she did not return. She went to the

home of another friend of of hers shortly after Christy disappear ground to twenty. In the afternoon a man Henry nor junior twenty three years of age of cannon, avenue now kennesaw avenues about three blocks from the grace and shopping center. He was walking in the woods with his wife, PAMELA and their five year old daughter. when he heard screams and he ran to investigate where these we're coming from what was going on when nor arrived in the area of the screams. He saw a white man about eighteen, nineteen years old, wearing cut off shorts, no shirt, with long black hair and he's swinging a two by four bored and he's beating something into the ground. No, and saw that it was a woman or a girl that the man was beating with the large board he saw. The man strike the girl in the head about three or four times with vicious

Lee blows, the killer then saw nor and took off running running south in the wood to flee the area nor ran, to the girl who was lying on the ground and he becomes emotional when the girl is laying their lifeless and there is the board that she was being struck with- is laying across her body he p, up the board any he'd like launches into the woods. He throws it into the woods and then he take off his shirt. I mean mind you she's badly beaten in the head the face and he takes off his shirt, it covers her up, covers up her head. Nor then went to the department store to call for help. he was very upset. He was pretty man and he in several store employees started searching the area behind the store. Looking for the assailant. when police arrived at the shopping center, Henry now

led them to Christy's body police Then that, later that evening, a woman came into the store and told police he had seen a man earlier that match the description of the man. Police were looking for the assail had been riding a bicycle and road passed her home, which was just so of the shopping center. On Monday august, twenty fifth, the columbus did That was it, which is a local. The major local newspaper featured the composite drawling of the suspect, the person leave to be Christy's killer. This prompted hundreds of calls to police most of them. we're calls coming from the north side of columbus and a lot of them near the grace when shopping center detective. Jones said that more a dozen calls seem especially promising. Joan set investigators have canvas, hunt,

of homes in the area, apartments, buildings and businesses in search of more eye witnesses. To take it jones was very confident that they would find other witnesses who had seen the ec or before after the murder took place jones off who stated that in fifteen years, as a homicide, detective and columbus, that was one of the most brutal beating. He had ever seen and although Police at the time were pursuing several. their theories. The strongest there that they were going with was the girl was forced into the woods by a man who wanted to molester and then killed her when she struggled, Was the same that her fought their christie moments father same statement, he would give to the newspaper that same day that day, He believed that she would have gone into the woods with somebody willingly while her were tied as well.

Yes, there there is one sources says that her hands were bout there with the telephone wire now the detectives they were going on that theory, but they were also checking reports of molest stations in the area and they were doing what they were caught. Referring to his backtracking saying that many times when someone is Molly stayed or assaulted, sexually assault that they don't actually reported, but when I read in the paper that a fee ten year old girl is is murdered. Then will come forward and say such such assaulted me or so, and so do you know why, vault in an altercation. These reports would come out later with hopes of helping solve a much more brutal cry, the next day, tuesday. Officer, thomas Stroud, he's working foot patrol and traffic patrol down in the downtown area. street, and he notices a face in the crowd there.

A group of about ten people walking and he notices a man in his twenties and he approaches the man and what what stood out to him, was the hair of the gentlemen, the way that the hare kind of stood out from the face and the the length. was almost exactly that of the capacity drawing that he had seen in the despair the day before kind looks like a mall it. You deadly, there are molly or like a like a slick back kind of but she no kind of thing after you haven't combed it back in a while you know someone on twitter city but forgot redneck version of jerry sancho who carry anyway officer stroud approaches the man any asked the man for some identification. The man provided the officer with his draft card registration number for those of you that don't know, that's something I guess it. People used to carry around with them back and nineteen seventy five office

stroud here ass the man on probable cause because he looks exactly like the composite drawling and he says it- the man went without incident and there was no resistance police identified the arrested man as twenty five year old jack carmen police. Take act down to the police department, they're gonna call in henry nor junior, who had seen the attack, take place and he brings his wife with them and they conduct an identification line up. Now him and his wife would successfully pick jack carmen out of them police lineup, the positive ideas made police sit down Jack and they put him through- questioning for about six hours, dirt the course of their questioning jack carmen it's too the rape and killing of fourteen year old christy marlins detective strasbourg would talk with media after the questioning and after the confession, and he would say

the newspaper. The jack carmen is in very, very poor mental condition he also does not have the ability to read or write, was living at the volunteers of america dormitory three: seventy nine west broad street jack. Also not drive a car, detective strauss, Burke would go on to say that jack carmen, while he did, can ass to the rape and killing of christie moments that jack is uncertain, why he would have been at the grace and shopping center. He said that he was unsure how he happened. To get there He may have gone there to buy a shirt and all I'm pants, and then he would go on to say that he was also uncertain what he did after the murder, itself other than the fact that he knew that he stayed in the columbus area. He said that most likely after he killed her he probably got on a bus and headed back to the downtown columbus area police try

to corroborate jack garments, confession day announced that they were looking and trying to find a bus driver. A coat a bus driver who my have seen jack carmen or had noticed a shirt. Man wearing cut off genes it could have had blood spatter. specks on their on their cut off cheap, now they also would go on to say that possibility because she was beat to death with a board that those that the bloodshed I would be so small that could have gone unnoticed by a local bus driver police did recover more than one pair of shorts from a rag container at the volunteers of america, dormitory, where jack carmen was state, they couldn't confirm they were jack shorts or not they did have some stains on them and they had sent them off to a chemist to be tested. Idea a tested it not dna at the time, but they want to test to see if they were blood human blood, on the shorts when a circle back

to the phone call real, quick captain. Remember: the phone call that the girl received from the discharge. He asked about the kid you come down to the cheerleading contest were giving away past to the ohio state, fair, some weird contest for a radio station ass. Yet, but they were using. The police were using, that has their lead. That was their lead until the description of the man went out and somebody had found a guy that looked exactly like the description. Well, after they arrest jack carmen they're gone Well, let's talk about the phone call broke, work. Ok, so a little more Detail about the phone call. The call was actually answered by steve, Mullins friends, mother now. I was carol, reeves is Christy's friend, so the phone call was answered by carol reeves mother and she said that the collar did ask for karel by name now,

Euro would go on to say that the man spoke with an appellation accent and she did not recognise the man's voice. Nor did you have any idea who the collar was other than he believed he was who he said. He was a discharge with a local radio station. Now was in there, some speculation to that. There was actually cause earlier that weak. yeah. There was an dead. That's. Why had a circle back to the phone call, because after the arrest of jack carmen Paul, released a statement to the media that that phone call simply that it was simply a fluke, the jack car this maniac killer, and in the same location, where these two girls were because they had went on this prank phone call. Police are now deeming, as a apparent cook phone call, and he just happened to be in the area and he happened to grab christie Mullins polar into the woods, even though that their wars phone calls earlier that week. Correct yes, the authorities is a bunch of phone calls

there were several of phone calls and they were all made in that same area. These were all north side. Girls who had called to police and told them that they had received some phone calls that same week very similar, like we're saying earlier, outside, the grudge to there You mean the halibut case after the announcement of jack carbons arrests, his former fast. Parents come out and they start talking to the newspapers and they are saying you know he is, his mental state, he's he's at the level of a child not only that the date. They don't believe that he could have done this now. It's typical that family members, believed that somebody, a loved one, is response, over heinous crime. Like this I mean this is somebody the head was being charge. with beating a girl to death after raping her his mentally handicapped extremely meant the mentally handicapped. He doesn't drive, he doesn't really doesn't right, and but what

foster parents would go on to say is that the jack would of, do anything you told him to that. He would also you can lead him anywhere. You know when he was younger if did something and the foster father said jack You do this. He would immediately confess whether it was something he did or not, and then just minutes later, the fight father would say now jack I didn't do it and then he would he would just agreed yes, I did it and then and its later, no, I didn't and not only that they said that he never that he never heard anybody. They they act. We believe that a small child could probably oh power jack because he wouldn't understand the situation. He would understand that there is a struggle fight going on Furthermore, the police would would back to media and say no, that's impossible. We know this guy did it because he led us to the crime scene. He led us to wear. The body was found now the foster.

would come out shortly afterwards and say that simple possible. We believe that the police must have walked jack there in point, through the spot and said this is where this took place or is this the place? Yeah disagreed yeah he, but he would just agree. The other thing did the foster parents were curious about was jacket, the two raping christie Mala Well, there there's a lot of contradiction here, because in otter, see that was conducted. They could not confirm that she was raped. Now she was found, her pants were unzip and her top was pulled up but other than that they couldn't find any evelyn I have a rape or sexual assault, but the top could have came up during the actual beating part, correct, correct or or there could be an been an attempted rape that that was never successful. They ended up in the demise of christie months, the foster, this would go on to say that yeah jack,

fast to raping christie, but would see we please ask jack what the word rape means, because we guarantee he doesn't even know what that word means. Can you confess to something that you don't? Even you don't even know the definition of it yeah, so they're they're, leading in the sky and heat veces to it, and then they're going to take him to trial September second nineteen? Seventy five grand jury indict jack com, for rape, kidnapping and three various counts of murder and the death of Christie Mullins in the very next day on September third jack car he agrees to a plea bargain and what charges are reduced to one count of aggravated murder in exchange for his guilty plea and he's tens to life in prison its review, this real quick captain, because things happening very fast here right are happening very fast to a guy. That is that

mentally handicapped, that we have already talked about might go along with whatever the group is telling him to do or go along with. Has the plea bargain yeah on on august, twenty third chrissy mullins killed on august. Twenty sixth jack garments arrested, three days later on the on september. Second he's dying, for three counts of murder and then on the third key, please guilty to one cow of march so this takes place all within the course of eleven days from death, to conviction it's around round this same time that workers at the volunteers of america on westbrook street, where the mentally disabled jack, carmen live, they start report that they haven't seen jack that day and that he was that location as low as one forty five p m in the afternoon, now remember: we said: jackson drive a car, so here

I'd on code, a bus to take him everywhere that he went on I play the murder took place about two twenty to twenty five. According to the eye, witness that had seen the girl being beaten the head. He said that around two twenty he had seen jack carmen beating the girl in the woods. While that's it's a bit of a stretch. So it's sick ten minutes by car with no traffic that location on the west side of columbus all the way up to the north side of Columbus. Sixteen minutes, So if they saw him at one forty five that puts him there to a what? but now she wasn't did she was taken from from the side of the door equipment store, broadened Woods I mean me be by car by anybody, that's travelled by bus. They know that that bus moves alot slower than a car and you gotta stop and make all those different stops right. What what's energy scene is ok they. claim that they got their one. Forty five, we

you don't know that for sure right, we're orton work approximating correct? They get their at one. Forty five never states that women checked in all by the way it was one forty thought they were on time. I do and she was excited about the contest. So I think they were on time, but then It comes back ten minutes later, so she would say try to tell me that Chrissy Mullins would just be wandering off for no reason it seems like there was that window of opportunity for some eighty lawyer lore. I can't speak dinner, but the captain I would like. The captain always adds five minutes to timelines, because this lords and back what yeah this this nineteen, seventy five people are walking around with with cell phones

They do have wristwatches. Obviously, but what you're saying here? If we add five minutes, I am a rich wristwatch on right. Now, in its not working, so it's right twice a day as actually so if we are saying by the captain's timeline that if they did arrive on time at one forty five and if the friend, was in the department store for ten minutes. She would came. Act out at one fifty five, maybe too, clock at the latest. That means Jack carmen would have had to have taken a car straight from the west bank location, all the way up to the grace and shopping center. While you wanna take an inquiry was taken, the bus, but exactly but that was it. That's the only way is what I'm saying to get there and that amount of time- and we know that when you go to the home, then he got go back and forth. Ok, did he leave out one forty, or did he leave that one fifty, or is that this last time they saw him and that he was acting? Is there the whole time these work?

as said, came forward, saying that there is no way that he could have arrived in time. to commit the mark. Now that there's people that start checking that the police in check the detectives did not check this. They just believed confession. Now these people checking and they start signing petitions to that he needs to be retried that they need to do a new, more thorough investigation, because a call to the bus schedule and according to the transit authority, there's no way that he could have made it from the west columbus at one forty five to be at that location at graceless shopping center at two twenty p m nineteen, seventy five at probably a lot easier to make the drive traffic was probably less than it is now, but also to me. It seems like

hops are more worried about closing the case. Then they are on finding the truth. I think that happens a lot and cases, and we really need put pressure on the police to be looking for the truth, not just looking for closure well, let's think about some things that are going on in the world at this time period. So this is the summer of seventy five and we had a cover the beginning of the season, the son of sam, while the son of sam murders, start taking place late July me too late July of the same summer. So now or city has got a maniac running around killing people They haven't solved that crime. There is there's more victims. The victims are adding up. Ok you have a fourteen year old girl and Columbus, who is more This is a well populated area, its Clinton ville while north Columbus there's a lot of people there today, there was a lot of people back in nineteen. Seventy fought this as well.

populated area and all They got a maniac on the loose, it's killing kid, in the woods. You know and so killed. Eight kid right end, but this was front on the front page of the major newspaper at the time. The dispatch- and this was a crime that your exactly right. The cops were very concerned about solving this use, the picture you saw the composite drawling that they put in the newspaper. The guy looks like a maniac. He anita heat heeded. Looks like somebody you be afraid of him. Then you heard that he raped and beating you be. A girl for the board to buy for so yeah, but here it goes back to my original thought, though, is weak. I understand that there is pressure to see a case, but the pressure should never be to close the case or to solve a case or you know too far. stains. The pressure should always be to find the truth, and I think it is

came across a guy that was mentally handicapped. I think day interrogated and they you know, I think their tactics pro were questionable and the guy fashion out of a guy that didn't know what he was talking about. Now have to sign a confession right. Ok, carmen couldn't write. The police said he couldn't read or write. So so let me get this right. I'm going to have to write out your can define the officer I have to run in your jack carmen. after right out the confession for you right right indeed, I put a little ex at the bottom say here. Jack sign here and not did I write the confession for you, but you can't even read it to know. If that's what you told me, cracked right will end most the time. There, though his hand, you a piece of paper and the goods right down everything you know they leave the room, a tactic that I've heard that Detective shoes, often they won't even read. It does come back, and say

I'm guessing there's some light. in here, so discreet, write it so they had the right now, the compassion for him and probably put her expiry. So again he can't read what he what they wrote now, working in the banking industry. I dealt with a lot of mentally handicapped and they would have a signature that they would sign to that a lot of them could sign some kind of signature. So on, I'm assuming they jacket that here, I would guess that you that he signed, I mean he had some identification with him. Usually that requires a signature is well he's twenty five years old. I am sure that he had some kind of signature or scribbled. that he used as a signature. whether its screwball or not that's sick. Have you seen my signature? My signature is, is a scrimmage yeah is a scribble and I'm no doctor September eight, this just five days after the guilty plea more than seventy people attend a meeting at share.

Township hall to question. The police investigation shortly. after the meeting this is when they establish establish the justice for jack committee. Basically, what this committee is doing? What everybody should have done doing for them from the gate. Go is their pushing the issue for, let look if he did it fine, but less get to the truth review the other evidence, though? To I mean we talked about the time line that it that it was impossible for him to make it their ads, highly unlikely, very unlikely, but the data, of the shorts, Nothing comes of that right. They only another ADI were his short at the time, be a nineteen seventy five they're, probably lookin for blood and then to see if the blood matches like the herd, type of blood or if the if it was even blood at all, there was the head stained the shorts. I wonder if it was george jean shorts

It was jean shortsighted, yeah cut. All george the other evidence here is they couldn't find a bus driver. Remember they had laid on if your listing in your garage right now you're drinking nights, Peru. Yet and he looked down and you were in george, just get up. Take your george off from in the trash light upon fire. Just don't george wait. No, no! I disagree. If you are in the garage drinking beer- and you looked- any wearing jeans when she did so take them off, get a pair of scissors and cut them into george, just above the knee. and then throw them in the trash per se, may your picture of your george on instagram, I get sidetracked they aren't, but on november nineteenth of the same year, a court appointed attorney richard addison files, a motion to set aside current guilty plea and conviction.

On grounds that carmen is mentally incompetent, yet they gave him a new lawyer. Technically s I find that interesting and I think, probably at this point, the police the star backpedal like what are we doing as our work is what we're doing Morally correct and you know what I have no evidence of this, but other than the fact that he did get a new attorney and I suspect, the first attorney might have just told him to plead guilty. I mean that's. It's the it right and the da and everybody has acted. They all know each other alot of people play golf together so who now It has been like look. We ever buncher I didn't have saying he did it and then Turning to said, ok, cool, but that it was asked the plea that they come out with the alibi, and I think

the defence. Turning the first one knew about thou alibi by what you said. Wait a second, what's goin on here will keep in mind. If everything was happening very fast, I mean he he was arrested on the twenty six at the end of august, in that the first couple days of September he's pled guilty. so they're piecing this together here. four for this type of murder. Conviction I dont give so about fast, though sometimes have been spent on this right. That's what I'm saying I don't give a shit about a fast some I give a shit about correct You know what I do give a shit about people coming together for your right reasons. Wearing words together and coming together for the right reasons, and you had you had those people, those seventy people that attended the meeting in sharing township and you have in your of the lantern. Ok, that was the ohio state newspaper right right,

the lantern. There was a couple of gentlemen. There is this: is a college newspaper, correct, caught college newspaper a couple reporters there? They start doing covering this story and they're the ones that start voicing to the public that hey there's something going on here, that this guy has been convicted roy only convicted of this type oh, cried Clinton bill is north of camp is so as not this really does have eaten to do with the campus area, but it's a location regardless and then in late december of the same year, Columbus monthly, which a magazine today. I'm assuming it was a magazine back then as well, but data to cover the same story that the lanterns covering their they bring. In the same, Investigative journalist and have them release there story on a much larger scale. So he said, that's least in December. So that's what three months after the correct

I December twenty ninth columbus monthly released their job january nineteen. Seventy six issue covered the cat some covered the store. So then, what he gets his new attorney, neither set to go to actual trial with a jury. Well, what takes places Jim You wary thirtieth of seventy six jack carmen scheme, Action is set aside and a competency hearing is ordered What did they find during that competency? and so it took a few months to figure this out, but at the end the end in mid. Of that same year, a jug adjudge ruled that car, civil rights were violated by he columbus police department and and and space, I think, on the interrogation. Yes inheres, here's what I like I find this odd. You know when somebody when somebody with it fast to a crime? You know

you here like this, this mentally handicapped person was stuck in a room for six hours. We were questioning him. no six hours, that's an interrogation floods. I mean the questioning and interrogation. Those are two different words right Yes, they are not as a threat, but it's a way of skewing what you're actually doing right yeah, but you originally reported that they or question and for six hours I wanted it, try men and go Ours is a long time. That's an interrogation. Those were the words of the columbus police department as good and to the local newspaper. At the time so is civil rights? Are violated and what else the prosecutors appeal that ruling and then jack com, ultimately granted a new trial on December nineteenth nineteen, seventy six after a six

trial and eight hundred and forty nine days behind bars, jack carmen is acquitted, a retrial any set for your skipping over laws. Stuff go, go had kept I saw who do they cause their prime witness? I don't know a car henry knoll henry h nor junior, where do they find Henry no at is he in jail yeas in jail? Do you know what he's in jail for burnt down his own home, and so he burned down as our own home unease put in jail and accident on assuming I know it was arts, and so pull him out of jail and they bring under the courtroom and then the defence attorney basically combats we, then he says and the jury doesn't believe, but damn wordy says Andy They believe, henry

is responsible for the murder, and that was the christie. Mullins family had believed that, from from, beginning I mean right win back in september of seventy five when the local people started getting together in questioning the Gil jack carmen. Family flipped almost immediately and set in you know they. didn't believe this Henry newell story. At all Now? What's whereby his story is, you know he's walking in the woods with his wife and his son or daughter. I can remember it's there, five year old daughter so now you have to go against what Henry sandy I go against what his wife a sane so there were not going to question the five year old. Yet, let's think about what he said, he said that him and his wife and daughter walking through the woods he hears, screams.

and he decides he's going to run to investigate where those screams are coming from right on towards the danger. Yet he runs the danger he sees a tall man, shortlist, white man and george with law. Long black hair swinging a to buy, for which they actually said was probably only about two foot long. you know, as a broken offer, cut off board and swinging this to buy for in. What he says at first beating easy and beating something into the ground and he looks down in its egg. It's a girl or a woman that hitting in the head, he see the assailant hit this person in the head three or four, times. He then says that the assailant turns and looks at him and they look each other in the eyes and after This maniac had seen Henry nor he the board across the body of the girl and he takes off running. Well, let's

about what henry decides to do than right. He says I'm emotional motion. I became overwhelmed with emotion, I ran up to the girl. Now, must have noticed that she was that she was dead, or or beyond help at that point right because he ate he says frustration, I picked up the board I through, into the woods, and I too, Off my shirt and I put it over her head, now. I can see myself removing the board from our body. I can see myself doing that I can also see myself porn off a piece of clothing once I, if I knew she was the way of a new shoes deceased. I can see myself governor. A sign of respect in others not one in to see it? I guess so I it's and to me that's not super far fetched. I think it's a story that it came out without the time. I think that

so way to explain away my finger prints on the board and why my sure is covered in her blood right. Second of all, I think the act of covering her face with my shirt implies that he believed she was beyond help and that she was dead at the time they He ran up to her body, so the thinking this right of, if she's dead, one I find her than obviously I killed her and I'm a man in my young twenty three months you're not well walnut well Henry, nor is I'm I'm henry nor welcome. Ok and the the woods and and so high back, he was twenty three I believe at the time, and so his wife would have been about the say, approximate same age, so my wife and young daughter are in this would somewhere. I just left them and ran towards the danger, and I east away this maniac this. This blood, thirsty maniac, did just ran through the woods right. So am I,

determined that the girl is dead, but he doesn't have a weapon anymore. So ok he's gone, but why is my first reaction. I run to the department store and I call for how the walk- oh yeah, I in I guess everybody will would react differently, so maybe I shouldn't go breed too much into this, but to me my first thought would be shit. This maniacs in this woods in my wife and my daughter and this woods to write I don't know that I would flee the woods and search for help. I would want to that I'd, probably yelling for help. But I'd also be calling for my wife, my daughter, to make sure that I'm there to protect them. Yeah but part We thinks that if I saw that I'd be size in the guy up, and then I mean I hate cardio, but I think Pardon me what I just know what they say I'd or flight. I think I would. I went towards the fight staying with the body, but I guess

I guess also coming up on some eu now, if their deceased or not It may be that, hesitation, by the time you look up, the guys are long gone down at least one eye. Witness that was that was at the wool. Co store when Henry nor arrived there to call, he says he ran their to call for help right one eye witness says: did he thought her? Sorry? I did it never is explained if it's a here she, but they had thought Henry looked to have been. I'm upset in angered when he was form that the cops had been called and it was ass this time that him in several of the wool co employees went outside of the department store to look for the killer, to look for the maney aren't so Henry goes the wolf code to call the police space ago or get help me. He is trying to help from the war call that's hard to say boycott

Department store, he threatened, so maybe he's not trying to call the police he's just trying to help in general, but so you, but then you claim that somebody said He looks, visibly upset once I say the cops are on our way. Guess then it's been its after that he goes outside and with some of the workers employees looking for the killer now Just one eye witnesses account I mean who knows what he could have been shaken up by what he had just seen any wasn't. You know I could have been won. The reaction is in sitting to me that that little tippit was in the newspaper at the time. I do know that, nor in his wife PAMELA they were questioned for a cup hours after the incident now one of probably just you know how you can say question, because it was only a couple of hours, yeah and a lot, That's probably what did you see? What were you an eye witness of right?

now going over the description of the man, but one thing that you asked me earlier: that was that was interesting. I kind of danced around it because I want to go to into it at the time, but you would I said that nor, in his wife had identity, positive we identified jack carmen as the man that they had seen in the woods. Well, here, some issues that I have with this right. Ok in you ass, were they did they they do the line up at the same time were they did they id him at the same time? I don't know if that actually made it in after an edit, but ok, yeah. That was my question was what did going and to do the identification of jack carmen together or did they just do it separate just me I feel like legally, you should do it separate, were it doesn't hold up in court. legally. You should do it separate, but let's also review his story story says that he ran

ahead of his wife. The killer ran off and I maybe maybe what we're missing. We don't know all the details, because the police don't release every detail to the newspapers but Turning to that story, I wish they would now. Did his wife actually see the killer or did the or did she d c, the back of him or what just going off a wet henry told her to say more when he said he saw and here's the the thing if they both like you said if they both idead them jack com, together with he's going along with what what had whoever Henry pointed to write. It's it's interesting then, then. The other question me was Is he the only one in the woods or this line about being in the woods altogether. The thing here too, is yeah. I mean there. a lot going on here that that took place in a very short period of time. You know that

that phone call did. We know make that phone call to try to lower the Christy's friend right. at the store near the woods. I mean the woods back right up to to the store and to the to that area, yeah a lot of the I believe we should look at this case that what was Chris friend's name again. Karel reeves is so carol gets phone calls for. Earlier that we can then gets one that day again like The guy got Amy michalek case site thank you no one. He said ah dj wherever this cheerleading contest just meet me outside. I think thought I'm going to get lucky and she's just going to come by herself and then I'm going to negotiate a situation where I can get her alone. But what happened she brought a friend. I then think who ever called her was expecting there to be too and it just so happens- that

Christy decided stay back. Instead, I have to go in with you. She said back and that was killers, opportunity right there, and so really this the victim was supposed to not be christie at its that whole wrong place. Wrong time thing does the collar pretend to be a discharge. He pick the wool co store or pick that part. king lot, because he knew tat, a girl that lived in. That area would cut through the woods and he could have got he could have been in the woods whether alone washing her following her that's ever in and, as you said now there A friend there now there's too, its leather speculation? Is that the killer would it's called meet me here, knowing where she lived, she have to cut the woods and You would have got her just in the woods to begin with, but since there was two girls there was not an opportune time. He could have just stayed back in the woods and

react until he saw our go into the war co and then but then he had to act on Christie instead of our friend now after jack carmen is acquitted, in december, or nineteen of seventy six its determine, did jack and didn't even know Christie Mollet that he had act. We pled guilty to kill a girl that he had never seen before me spent. hundred forty six days in jail or prison. Because of that, if you see some little the pictures just of jack carmen when their arrest in him, he just looks happy or the time he looks like he's happy, be their tasks, returns, smiling on his way into court. He smiling on his way out of court he's. He doesn't understand what is happening in ITALY. It breaks my heart. I mean that the guy he seems like like what is

stir parents said like he's just a nice guy that doesn't he doesn't wooden, notify somebody, because he didn't understand the situation now is basically living in a shelter yeah. They stay said that his foster parents at his door as you know, they said that a four year old could have could beat a five year old kid could beat up jack carmen, because he wouldn't understand the situation and ask him what you you rate that girl ask him definition of rape does didn't even know what that means, and- and this is terrible that that somebody took advantage of this person and in Had these people not come to his defence, the the citizens came to his thence. These reporters came to his tis to have fence life in prison. It. What I think, that's a problem with the justice system pushing the issue of closing the case. There is pressure on these cops. Clothes is case, and that's

at that want is a heinous martyr to It's it's it's a sophomore in high school, it's a fourteen year old girl, not not a woman. You notice is somebody just starting their life and somebody peter to death? In the woods I mean that there is pressure from hawks community but gaddi I get this shit right. Yes, it you can thus be taken, a guy, that's mentally handicapped and us feed in the answers and then go on hall. When I look then a day you're, the only person ass live with you and you are, tell me you and the other look in the fuckin mere when you down a guy that he knew was incapable of understanding what you're talking about? And you just get him too? fast to this idea. well, there were some things working against the police. You know obviously the death ethics well, basic human decency is one thing now

what I'm getting at, though, is they were put in a bit of a pickle. I mean you have a a eye. Witness just lying. Ok, he says I saw this maniac killer. He describes the killer they could composite drawling of this person anomaly that typical you would you would put this I threw the ringer, you would say you saw the killing go down. You would put him through the ringer because he's very likely to be your number once us back your eye, but because he says that my wife and daughter with me right now, all of a sudden, you have two, you have to believe him. You don't have to, but that's will obey his alibi debt there. He has an alibi. And then then, second of all, they were lease the composite. Drawing now one thing I will say the cap that drawling jack carmen looks exists, is a dead ringer for the composite drawling. I think the person that made the rednecks

and felt joke was mister. Do it or something on on twitter. I stole that joke from so yeah and in no, I dont mean any any verbal harm to Mister jack. Harmonise said that you know that that I feel terrible that this happened to him, but he you know, there's. is there okay. This is nineteen. Seventy five, when you hear that a girl is beat to death in the woods and image comes in your mind when it's described that as a white man with long black hair, it was it was like just below the ears. It wasn't long. Black hair and the composite drawing is just below the ears, and it's got but why not only handicaps of wanting proudly doesn't have a lot of money to get a haircut. Wild he's got a wild look to yemen. The dollars into his alot of em, don't understand how to shave. So when I was working in the bank, come in every week and in you gotta help me you'd realize

they don't shave. As often I mean I, the captain never shake yet, but you don't shave off the shaven. When I was twenty years old, I was like wait a second. I don't have to do this shit anymore, but no and so what's what your basically saying- those if you see him in some pictures to seems like this happy cheerful guy that doesn't understand. What's goin on another, pictures. He does look like like this psycho killer. You know yeah an in depth that probably confuse the police, because when you, when you start, if your d investigating this- and you start to- maybe not believe- if Henry knowles account of what he saw it, but here's what we do then, the very next day within twenty four hours. They pick somebody up that looks exactly like him and you're gone. What's the chances of that? No! No! No! That's one in a million, but but the problem is you gotta start change. You gotta change. The way that we investigate murders because here's what we do,

investigating, must say a drug cartel right. He puts his name on the board, put jack garments, name on the board, and then you just he's gone. You need to go, find the nets guy. That he's can to write, and same way with. The henry. No you go and you say: okay, now, let's go dig more into him. The way murders work is that you put people on the board, and so what the police did was it put Henry nor on the board and they said, while Henry Nor was the one that saw the eyewitness right his wife and his kid were in the woods with them, so boom alibi cross, his name off the list. Sorry just punched your mind and then they, his name off the list and then what we get the eye witness testimony and the deposit sketch we get it from henry nor and then that does that sketch ashes jack carmen. So now we just keep fall

that path and so the They follow that path and guess what leads to a guy that agrees with everything you say so stand that point you go here will obviously this looks like the guy did. Henry saw and Henry was with his wife. So therefore he couldn't have done it. So analysis talk to this guy, but maybe that aim and pushed too hard doesn't seem to me like they would have had to, but maybe it was gonna take a while to actually it could have said. Where did you do this? Yes did you do this, and maybe his story was as all over the place because he was disagreeing to everything and so the clean up a little bit and I think maybe you dont. Maybe they dare not horrible people, maybe they act. We thought. There were onto something until the people from the shelter come out and say, wait. A second. He was here at night. still one forty five yeah and where I

think they really dropped. The ball was just before that, because, after he's pause, after jack carmen is they positively idead by nor and his wife and they they take his confession- Their immediately telling the newspaper the next day it was a fluke the jack carmen was there and what are? What are their first statements to the newspaper his hit here? a very, very poor mental condition and The next statement is it doesnt drive and jack. It doesn't know why he was egg graceless shopping centre right and he doesn't know where he went you're, the murder he heat other than we know he stayed in Columbus, so he's nothing. I guess. If I was it grace and shopping center, then I have got on a bus and went back downtown well so we're very quickly missing the phone call.

carol. Reeves received their immediately saying: oh, while this was just a prank that had nothing to do with with the murder again putting things on a list in this crossing them off their just checking to write offs. I note that has nothing to do with it, but did, furthermore, they don't bother to remember they said we are looking for a code bus driver that would have seen this man taking a bus to were from the area before after the murder and that bus driver never came forward right, he's not driving if he's getting around town. If he is at all, these drivers gonna start, recognising that you know their patrons, so I shall now it's like. You said I think it's I think it's pressure. I think it's unfair pressure may look. I like cops there's a lot of great cops out there. But there's a lot amazing detectives. Ah, I think there put into these high pressure. Situations to close these cases and

I think sometimes could look. You're gettin pressure from the whole community community, but you're asking pressure from the family. and I- and I do believe- that the family It is hindsight twenty twenty. So then, after the fact here, while we have, we never believed that jack was involved. To begin with, I think once they saw jack and I saw the sketch. I probably I bet money that they're, like that's the guy, but you know it become more steps, since it's wait this does it had a something's, not right so acquitted and henry. Ah, no, junior gets out of prison and then what happens when we Does he get out of prison and not really for sure, because I don't He spat that long time in jail I knew that he was in prison, but I had a hard time tracking that down as well, and why did I wanted to know when he got out of prison because in january of nineteen, eighty two this is

less than seven years after the killing of christie, Mullins PAM. No, his wife, it was with him that day files for divorce now about a month later in February. She has I've pam nor is found dead in her apartment, the result a barbecuing overdose, and there is a suicide note found by her side malka, which strange because strange, because we discovered a possible suicide case. and now know, is the number one suspect in this killing and law. It's not killing a minute's technically is now inroad christie, Mullins death, all right and who would on? Who was the one person that would have known for sure if she was we henry no or not pam pan I'm tellin you there is this pit sure you might be able to find it at Columbus, monthly dot com, I'm sure

finest somewhere on the internet, but there is a picture Of henry nor at the crime scene, where he's talk, the police and he's telling them what he witnessed in what he saw an he's crouched down in these kind of like pointing at the ground and looking at the ground and his wife if PAMELA is, five six feet from him and she's. down as well in she is an you know. They say it as a thousand words the look on her face when he's. Looking at her husband brain the look on her face is almost lake it like she doesn't but a word he says, or why are you can we lie for you. That is just a disgusted. Look on her face because I want she saw any of christie. I think that, would be enough to you know that, We are definitely emotional reaction. That happens there and, if you know like, if you're not for certain. if he did it or not, you know

be lookin out, I'm just gone. What have you fuckin animal? Well, what I'm thinking is dead. He probably came home without assured on right and he, his wife to go for a walk in the woods I mean I can't doesn't come home without assurance. Now I I think I think he brain key, tells her after the fact I think there ever goes down between him and Christie goes down and then for whatever reason, maybe he thinks somebody saw him goes run into war quota, which that does Any sense either anyways! No, but that's it. About this case, there's so much shit that doesn't make sense right in and how does did you blame PAMELA blame the wife. If she wasn't there, if she doesn't now and then You know he's the one that fines body-

now. What I mean is she knows whether or not she was with him in the woods when he said he heard screams and went running off and then what is her husband site? I could see her discourse. Look it's a little white lie. no, I wasn't with him. I was just a little bit far farther away, and then you know that's the thing. Why would he go to walker? Why? Wouldn't he just run home she ran home. He didn t tell us what I was walking in the woods and I found this girl. The same story applies, and I saw sky and then while the police from there. But maybe he knows that if he goes home they he s a call, please I don't know origin, though my first reaction would be here It's that his wife and daughter were in the woods within my first reaction would have been to run to my wife and daughter to locate them and then go for help thats what I would have done. I don't know, I think, there's a permanent things that I would I ran after the guy if there was a guy but but who knows so

so she so PAM ends up committing suicide, possibly in quotations. That's what it's that's what everybody says, but I'm sure there's plenty a rumour to the contrary. This is also semi. Five, so into is. I dont know if she's working at the time and and maybe he's maybe it's just one income family right and so that there would be another motivation for her tits to go with his story here. The breadwinner he's brennan home everything. You know he's taken care of us oh you know if he goes away than what the hell you know where it occurs: he Mullins family would continue to fight for justice for their daughter for their sister for them you know and their father, Norman Mullins was of the belief that Henry, nor was the person they should be looking at all along right and he he

begged and bothered and poked at the police department to continue to investigate this to look at nor and they did, other thing here, as they just kind of swept under the road for a while they day. I think they they were doing was they were ignoring their mistake, that they did they were refusing to put a spotlight back on something that done wrong. Well, the problem to those that you haven't. I witness and he's claiming one. I touched the murder weapon, so really and yet fingerprints are well. He covered his story there and then he put his shirt on top my argument with that is, if you have the sure it's a big deal and of you lane you're sure on bloody body or splatter. Coming at you and I know that forensics was different back in the day, but I'm sure they could assault splatter and wait endless.

one thing I find really interesting is the trial of jack carmen the jury believe that the witness was the martyr That was very interesting and that was of the of the dead or consensus among the citizens of the area at the time to do so pan passes away legit suicide. I am the story girl from he. Well, unfortunately, in April of two thousand and six norman mullins he's the father of Christie Mullins, who was still fighting for justice for his daughter. passes away at the age of seventy two in september, of two thousand and thirteen henry nor junior he die at the age of sixty three from cancer and he could find it a bit wary online and there's not much room about him. He did get remarried is married for about sixteen years to his ah

quotation, loving wife. It describes listed his kid kids grandkids, and a step grandchildren yeah a round that same time, John or he begins researching the mole and murder case? What he to write a book about it and he so this is gonna, be a lengthy book. He was going to look into the investigation and try to get another investigation going here. What he does He ends up contacting the two gentlemen that wrote for the lantern back in nineteen, seventy five and he of getting all of their old notes, all of their interviews and every bit of evidence that they collected along the way he set from those guys. he's not digging into two terribly far until he realizes. This is no longer a book project This is more about

finding the real murderer and, was going to be a lengthy, a full length book that you would see on the shelves everywhere ends up becoming an e book. Some very important takes place in two thousand. fourteen and may the cologne police agree. To review the forty year old murder case of Christie Mullins. Now this takes place now, keep in mind, the Mullins family had begged the please to look into this. For almost forty years, got little to no help in a new investigation of this kind, and this is another pet peace. So this lonely jump on the soap box for a quick were very. wait to be like careless last closes cases get just right away as much as we can so much we'll take a mentally handicapped guy, put him in a room and interrogate them and get a false compassion, but then, after they lose the case, the ets,

They sit on our fuckin hands and don't open up in these cold cases. It is it just sits there So it seems so asinine to sit at the beginning, its rush, rough rush, after that, it's like it's kind hush, hush, hush, you're, insane I think a lot of that was it. They had left two, no evidence for any other suspect. I mean they had no evidence on jack carmen who they took to court and Furthermore, just a couple years after the murder the area was bulldozed over because their building up that area the time while the other bill, three fifteen, nor yes, any additional stuff that they were hoping to fine or or to conduct any kind of surveys, or anything like that in the area. You know they had lost the opportunity for that it wasn't aller wasn't the author that was able to get the police to agree

to review the forty year old murder. He actually said that he got involved and try to get them involved and he got the same run around that the Mullins family had got. It was only after the Clinton ville area commission had requested the police look into this again. Now a modern times. What happens if you get new detectives guys that were younger coming out. They hear about this injustice and the net they sink their teeth into it. Because the Clinton ville area commission has no authority to make the police rio, the case or to look into it further, it just at their recur, now that the current police department granted that request in their cold case squad reviewed the case, and it took him about a year may be two years They come out in two thousand fifteen november sixth and columbus police department announce that Henry no killed, Christie Mullins,

more than forty years earlier. In they rule the case saw enclosed in a day- and one of the reasons are a good one of the reasons they did, that too was one Henry knows on meters came forward and said: look, this is family secret for years or at least family back to him of doing this, and he supposedly he confess to her to pee, fest according to the family, he confessed to her and at least one other family member stating that he had taken the girl into the woods or got her to go into the woods with him, and he made a move, he made a move. He would he was going to. per it never got that far things got out of control and he killed her Why am I don't even know if it does happen? That way, I mean it could be it employers. I just want to add not simple, but

because it his motive could have been. I you know and arrested and younger girls, and you know what he said to the niece was that he made a move and then she, you know dent, react the way he wanted her to and then that when things escalated, that does, make him any less of a fuck dirt baggies dirt bag period. You know yeah and we do got to be clear. I mean obviously he he had died before they make this announcement and what I was sorry. What I was trying to say captain beforehand was at the the police did offer a full. apology to the mall family for slip up and they called their thereof work forty years ago, shoddy at best, but you know, You can't try a guy who's dead and I guess it's easy to say that he did it and they closed the case and there is to be honest, with you. There is not a ton of evidence that did he did do it, however,

Police can say is that they had enough that if he we're still alive, he would be indicted and he would ve would be tried for that that murder, yeah and so here's what I find fresh rain. So that's two thousand fifteen and the key his clothes drank case closed my friend, no, not so fast, two thousand sixteen the play is discovered that there is a new technology out. Their net knowledge is called global filer. And thirdly, what this is it's a different way to test dna and what this global filer works best on is old, dna or possibly not. they contaminated by deteriorated dna Zactly, and so they this new test and This is now in two thousand. Sixteen,

they will not on that not discuss what I do their testing? So we don't know if their testing the sure or the two by four. If there's something else at the scene, the cops will. talk about what it's. What item will be being tested now? They did say because it's the cases technically close, that this could take anywhere from six months to possibly two years, which is so ridiculous like so there s there saying that if the case were open, it would be of a more expedited I'm not for sure on that. I might just be that this global filer dna testing- maybe it takes longer, is numeric knowledge. You write in theirs, there's a u no kind of a chain of command. You know how these lay of danes are set to go to trial. They need to have those dna tested. I mean who knows how back up there.

in this world is going to Helen, a hand basket real, quick, but said I dont know exactly what that evidences, but I do believe if they're saying we have enough evidence that if, if we're still alive today. He would be on trial, for that murder, and these are the same people that put jack carmen Well, not the same people. The same. I read the same to the same department, forty years later, so hopefully I mean if what you the other day on what this dna tests mt will will update every by once. We know information on it and one thing that's obvious here, though, is forty years ago. Police believe that three people were at the crime scene. Henry Henry know jack carmen and christie moments, and we are only think that jack carmen daily thought jack carmen was there because of Henry no and Henry, nor pointed at him in a line up and said: that's definitely the guy that was there well, they prove

he was definitely not there are so that leaves few people at that crimes. He was dead and interesting in dublin has twists and turns to it the case I've never heard over, I do like covering the cases that are lesser known. We have to really gonna dig deep for them formation. Ah, so do we have a recommended reading for the weak well rip? Yes, we do, but real quick before we get to that. This was a case, a kind of blew my top because you know seldom. I came across his case about four or five years ago and looked into it, and then you know you goes away and you look into it a little bit later. You read up on it and but the the range thing here is seldom. Do you review a cold case or stumble cross a cold case and then there's an actual out. come usually these things just sit there and continue to be cold forever, so Our hats should be off to the author to the gentlemen that worked at the lantern and way forty years ago to the people of Sharon township that

got together and said no jack carmen didn't do this and you gotta get him out and we have to figure out who did so. There is a lot of people there, hand in this to find justice, whether b, after the perpetrator was dead. You know, but ITALY, justice was found at the end of day, so we, give out don't don't speak too soon, because we will wait. The captain update us on the dna yeah humming put that on sure, but you asked about recommended reading. Yes, of course, we have one in this week we are featuring life after death. this is by Damien eh calls. You may know him as the one of the members of the west Memphis. Three he the so called devil worshipper. This his book that he wrote in released after he was released from prison. and it talks about it, made the talks a little bit about the case, but it mainly discusses his time in prison and things he would.

Instant experience there, it does also quite a bit into his childhood, which was It was very insightful. I recommend this one highly life after by damien eccles. You can get there. through our website. True crime garage dot, com, click on amazon banner and pick that up today. I have one this week, all american murder by John or and this Actually, the e book that was written about this case, so if you just wanna, die more this case pick up that book. It's just that you book you find it online to search, and all american murder. Yes, we Thank you for listening, and we also want to send our thoughts and our prayers to anybody that has been affected by the recent tragedy. In ireland florida, so until next time be good behind.

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