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The hello, hello, hello, and why

come to another episode of true crime garage. I am your host nick and with me most weeks, the one, and only captain fantastic, the best weeks for when I'm here, even though people hate me all night instance, so we gotta give a quick shot out who we given a shot out to give it a shot out to Vicki thanks for right in and about the long island serial killers. Episodes was some theories, really cool email. I'm trying to reply to all the emails males, gimme a second get back with you as soon as I can and once again. Thank you all for listening and thank you for your reviews on itunes. Thank you for checking us out on stature, wherever you are whatever you're doing things for list yeah who ever gave us the good advice on picking a beer

From the area of town that we're doing the case on, that's really good idea here. Remember that guy's name what we found it. We found a fantastic beer, its pale logger! This is from a saint Patrick, brewing company, that of littleton colorado. That is where our cases, based today, they have a brewery, a location that you can go there for tours. They have a twenty tap tasting room and a large gaming room there, open monday through sunday, if you're in the littleton area, check them out, up there, given us some money for that plugs and for everything, new gotta, true crime, garage dot, com, click on the contacts we want to hear your questions. We want to hear your comments. don't forget, to check out the store. Four song downloads all right? That's enough of the business

Thank you. Captain the garage is open. Grab a chair grab a beer unless toxin through grab. This is true crime garage and this The column by everybody around me.

Please and everyone else now good evening. Everyone they reaction of so many people today was: oh, no, not again another high school columbine, the two gun and wearing black cringe cones and black mass came in shooting and begin working. Their way through this means that the gunman were members of a school gang was reading by others. Do raises a gang of allowing guys we're insurance funds, everydayness nails and foaming violence. Violence as many as twenty times, the comedy as many as twenty five fatality for years and years, and then we're gonna graduating like seventeen gain any funding everyone's lightning.

Two words that have been paired together far too many times: school, shooting The first of many would be known as the bath school disaster on may eighteenth, nineteen, twenty seven and bath township michigan Andrew keyhole would use explosives and a rifle to take the lives of forty four people, including thirty eight elementary school children at the bath consolidated school

fast forward to nineteen. Seventy three on a dirt road in the foothills of the rockies, a school was being built once completed. The school would resemble a large factory. This two hundred fifty thousand square foot structure would be named columbine high school. During the nineteen nineties, the united states would see an increase in school shootings in nineteen. Ninety six for school shootings would leave seven dead in sixteen wounded in nineteen. Ninety seven, five attacks, all ten dead and thirty five wounded, and then in nineteen. Ninety eight, nothing, no school shooting

while, thankfully we would finally go a year with no attacks and no one dead quietly at columbine high students Eric harris entailing cleave old replanting, the largest school shooting in history as ninety. Ninety eight came to a close in the new year began with its usual optimism. The state of colorado would kick off the year with successful superbowl parties, as the denver broncos would take home their second superbowl trophy january, thirty. First, nineteen, ninety nine, as winter ended in spring break, came and went mid April. Kids were singing along to tee. O sees no scrubbs as it held the number one spot for weeks on friday and saturday night, people everywhere were lining up to see sites. I action film, the matrix Eric Harris until include bold, were purchasing guns, stockpiling, ammo, building bombs and constructing explosives. On april twenty nineteen, ninety nine, unfortunately, the school shootings returned to the united states. The attack,

would shake the general public and rock the community of little town colorado forever. The word columbine would leave us forever asking why

We we have a lot of things that are just doubting and any more, and this is what's going to happen in the world just getting more violent and we're just allowing guns to roam the streets, and this is what's going to happen. They're just hiding and waiting in there. The member again demands that we were all wanted to die and kill. As aware of this is true crime garage- and this is columbine, the.

The columbine high school shooting that took place April twentieth, nineteen, ninety nine This was big news. All of these school shootings are big news, and this took place in our lifetime- obviously we're I'm actually just slightly older than Eric Harris and dylan klebold. You are roughly on the same age, yet you're the same age. So while I would have, they would have been, You were in high school in this took place. the senior highschool. Do you so each You were in class that day and the weird thing was when we talked about this case. The first thing that I did was like It is clearly the j f k thing, like everybody has their story. where they were, and obviously we weren't alive the assassination or where we conspiracy theory? Who did it's true crime garage guys,

alive. So you can't pin that on us, but I a story. So I have my story and then as tone my bodies, the story There's a halo, what's watson shown, I said, combine and I was I was born on April twentieth. oh- is actually happen on my birthday and one of them have you ever heard of the most tragic week in world history. I believe it says same week who heads the sixteen april, sixteenth of the twentieth. Ok, so, and also Hitler's Bertha some the april. Neither is. There were some things in there that I do recall there was the waco taxes the sea john on their compound that they had yeah. When the fbi took down that place. That happened that weak, another week of combine, but in that transmit week end.

also the oklahoma city bombing yeah. Go to google and type in most tragic, weak and history. There's a wikipedia pay. about anyway. So that's my birthday and but I've been telling the story, so that was as eighteen. At the time the seven now so. but that was quite a while ago and I've been told the same story for good, Sixteen years yeah Ninety six ninety seven years, as I'm doing, research for the case, I realized my story can even be true. So here story- ok, Simon class, first period, and they do the morning announcements. Then, at the end of announcements, it's your birthday right, like because that's what they do in the morning, they do the birthday announced yesterday. Go ok! Well, you know

April, twentieth. Ninety, ninety nine, here's the morning announcements, blah blah blah blah blah all by the way captain phantastico. When you were not at captain back, then you were private, fantastic, that private, fantastic sergeant just say: stick to the facts: man No so they're gonna give Bertha announcement and so here's my story that had been torn for nineteen years, forty seven years Was that they do the announcements, happy birthday and ozone, bertha that day and then our school went into locked out now. This is a story that had been torn because what happened was they said, happy birthday, stated my name. Captain phantastico compliments, where they got back on the announcements and said we're gonna, go into a temporary shut down like a drill.

and that's the shore up in time for all the time, but these events didn't start till to eleven point: seven, eleven fifteen idea so and less they had the announcements way late in the day that day story is completely false. Blurred good chance that you might have done a locked down drill the following day now up, but but do. I think we re actually did one that day, because I I remember ah and The listeners can right into the show about this. And tell us what their experience were, but. I remember them like stopping school and go into this like drill and then when. whenever they came back from the drill cause For it was the first time we ever did a drill where they locked us in the room towards

locked into this ban room all the ban, no jokes come in my way but when you're locked into the bathroom, I just really felt like that was a strange and has been never we'd. Never drill like that ever we, We did fire drills and things like that, but I think there was probably some scare that Maybe this was happening for a reason: yeah. I I don't remember where I was. I mean, because at this took place on a tuesday. I was out of high school at the time and probably working a job that for that. I no longer work there. But I do remember later in the week to remember What job it was no idea. But I do remember later in the week like on thursday and friday, this was Of course it was already on the news by tuesday and wednesday, but I remember thursday and friday feeling the hype of it. I mean it was. It was a lot of you know

photo you know. Things were starting to come out interviews with it, because the aftermath. You know its students and and their started you're starting to get an idea of what took place inside the school during one hour time period. and then I believe it was that weaken that friday, that saturday, the news was date lines the sixty minutes, all those are coming out. That's when we start hearing words like trench. mafia and bullying in, Cast Garth We start hearing what they think, kids are were yeah, I think when I was in school, you know we had there was legs I mean I think school was actually prime pretty somewhere combine, because we we roughly had two thousand students, so roughly about the same amount as combine, and you had at that time period. Your big

groups like marilyn, manson and nine snails. and things like that, which I think we all you know, corn in the corner, popular then and now, when I think there is a, but there is There is a group of people that listen that stuff in there's a group of evil that drastic. and another band that was mentioned during. This case. A lot was kay em, f d m, which I don't know much about them, but the that they were popular at the time and yeah and one of the home video footage is like. I was telling you earlier there's this video. They if you go to youtube, you can search at the girl like seven of em, but there's his home video- and it's not- I don't know how much is worthwhile but there is a video of him spending a little phone and he's wearing a came after I'm sure so, but many times. You were sure of a ban that you distant like the the bans had nothing to do with as much as much as the media

through that in there in the beginning, we what thought they they had nothing to do with it yeah I would, I would say it would be easier argument if you made the argument that video games had something to do with it. I think that easier argument. I think you're exactly right, just because the other website with the hereby website. yeah. But he had a webs. Eric Harris had a website where he would create doom courses are bird doom challenges. I dont fully understand it. I wasn't into doom, it was a shooter game, though you know you walk around with a gun in zombies or skeletons jump out or or soldiers or whatever, and you and your youth, you kill them. Yeah me not because that was extension of woven steam and armenia. But I've seen it played once or twice when I look at your people walked out hallways and now and now, but Ninety, ninety nine! So we go, we get lesson

set the scene a little bit more for people before we go into the details of of their backgrounds. Duff so ninety nine and I we already talked about some of the band that were popular now, that's Popularity on a rock area pop you have a lot of boy bands at the time. whereas iguana had a train of thought with this. This was going to make sense, but Cell phones, cell phone phones, what big deal at this point. The internet was not a huge thanks to the fact that he had a website that was that skating to anything was pretty interesting to me because I wasn't like Ninety, nine everybody, back in the day when you, when you want to do your, I am you have to listen to the mobile modem it'll start up, and I don't even think I had a computer in my household at the time while his yeah his website was an american online and actually his website. I would,

I'm getting him into a little bit: a hot water, that little bit later, I want them to understand so for the younger listeners. The older listeners are going to go. I totally remember that time as back in the day when you go home and you have to check your messages on your answering machine or I think I'd say my senior year, maybe when you're in college, one, the big things was pager, he would have to call you and then you have to find a phone call magazine, dumbest thing, but that's the time period, and so it wasn't this attack happen and that everybody busted out their cell phones. It could look up the news and see what's happening. This was a time where this a bet took place, and then you gotta go home and you're either. I watched the nightly news. We're gonna find out some stuff from your parents the singing sir. little background on these guys and help me out with this little bit their captain, but the

harris he was not. From Colorado originally was born and raised in well, born in Wichita, kansas His family moves around a lot Father was a force transport pilot They eventually moved a little tin, colorado. this would be in july of ninety. Ninety three dylan clay born is from the area he grows up there. He goes this elementary school middle school. There he's very smart bit shy eric. not shy from what I've heard. If it is. We are, though, because allow these documentaries, or these news clippings and work we're talking about this law earlier was theirs is like Direction or this narrative that they're always trying to paint this picture That I dont know if it was there, you know and let me go excellent, because I know what I just said made zero sense,

but always seems like they're always trying to paint this narrative that that Eric was this like the man mine and Eric was this. The alpha may all of the group and and that deadline was Just this Conner for the right guy, and I I don't know that's how it really went down. Yeah. I've heard that I mean most of the outlets that I found information on, that's what they would that's their speculation as well. The abbot Lotta doesn't line up to me, but they then drive, but it is just that speculation right. Ok, so so that keep going with your thoughts so Dylan grow up in the area he's he is, as I said, considered very smart kid he's he's enrolled in this chips programme, which is a challenge, hi. I challenge high intellectual potential students,

and then he goes into middle school has a little bit of trouble, lasting the new school. Then we have erica. moves and a town in his law school years in ninety ninety three right, they get in high school, and that's when there is a lot of talk of you know where they bullied. Were they not bullied? there's arguments for both sides that fence I have even heard arguments that they were a bit of it these themselves, in every part of the Frida others different age groups. far as what is junior high and what is high school. Here we have. We had school and then high school, and So when I refer to middle school age, that mean that typically means six through eighth grade right,

and then you in high school, sorting and ninth grade with your freshman year all the way through twelve remote areas, schools that are not for years and and these guys would have been a senior. So that's the fourth year so that was four years of them, establishing a relationship with this school and these students that thereby attack And will you know with the initial accounts, come out that their unpopular kids that their outcast in and I'm actually have heard, did that's not exactly the case I mean Eric was a soccer player. an dylan he he ran sounded the the high school plays. Does it, but but, as I say how many years he played talk, I dont know how, if he played for all four years or one, but they apply they one year. What I'm saying is they were members of things? they were you know. School collectives or support teams are after school curricular activities, but it

high school age there, both getting good grades Eric is listed, is is been said that he's not shy that he had no problem getting a date from time to time others, rumour that even scored with a twenty three year old jake when he was seventeen and he was proud about that he bragged about that but who knows we? Everybody knew a guy that that. david a check or got it almost some chick that happened to go to different school, and you never matter have you ever seen my girlfriend she's she's, really hot. She lives in california. I will embrasures knows Dylan is a bit of the opposite. From from what we're told he shy never been on a date, they. they both end up working jobs at a place called blackjack pizza. This is kind of like you're traditional, like a dominoes pizza. I kind of of it may be a bit of a chain kind of a cheap food place,

One is, is a little less successful at the job than erica's. Air kind of applies himself in and later will will receive a promotion Dylan is a little more of a disgruntled kind of employee who now he could have just been there to work with his buddy Eric yeah buddy, and maybe air got him the job well, and it's always been rumored. That dylan was a bit of a follower. I've heard one he was a follower to Eric. Eric was a bit of the leader, and I've also heard that dylan. May have thought of himself as a protector of Eric Eric was a bit on the smaller cities. Five foot nine He had some stir, thing where he had like the sunken in chest. He had some kind of operation on that his junior year in high school and and heard it said that that, because of this condition, especially when he was younger you he wouldn't take office. He didn't like the take off his shirt yeah

I think any listener. That's under the age of twenty one would understand how big of a deal that could be an high score or actually, probably all the listeners could understand, like an highschool that something like that at the formerly, age or body to form they could be a big issue. Look his kids are kids are terrible, their rude n n. You know a lot of us. We get the high school in what you're not used to you know, taking off your clothes in front of a group of people, whether it be boys are girls, is weird the first few times you have to do that and in a lot of times we don't have to do that until you get a little bit older, whether be middle school, or has you went to catholic school? that does not that's for another. That's for another episode, the holy water, but any now Yes, I think that is something that could be a big deal, but but what I was trying to say was dillon. the thought of him as the protector of Aragon, Dylan was much bigger. He six foot three, a hundred forty six pounds cheers

and so that's that's kind of I mean he's pretty big four for a high school kid and we ve seen video footage in- and you can tell me that is a larger kip. parents want to give their children extra academic support, but it can be overwhelming and expensive to get there. Resources I exit offers all the learning tools your family needs on one side from pre k to twelve great making it simple to identify exactly what each child needs to work on with students learning a virtual classrooms. Recently, it's not uncommon for them to need. A little extra review. I excel is the most comprehensive online learning programme covering math language, arts, science and social studies, its essay space for children to make mistakes and grow. I accept they'll, find videos, lessons and sample problems to break down tricky topics when they get paid this questions wrong. They'll go

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already have honey? You could be straight up missing out and by getting it, you'll be doing yourself a solid in supporting this show pay pal honey for free. Joint honey dot com, slash garage, that's join honey, dot com, ash garage and I Don'T- I don't mean chubby- had only fat raised more athletic. Looking but he's it yeah taller, get your. Why he's not on the basketball team or anything? I don't know the one of the interesting things if you do watched the home footed is when you think about their social dynamic with each other and. here's where here's warpath I'm goin down, so hard to know how the actual dynamic was when it was just that two like we can.

This speculation is well. When we hung out with one I hung out with Aaron Eric. as an ark and dillon This is what happened. This is the interaction, but Yes, you I'm going with this. So I think when you watch the videos, you can really see like Neither one of them seem shy. They both seem out goin. But the video is it's a private video. It's too, sir, there there also going to put these personalities to place with each kid Based off of their interaction that their seeing in the base the tapes and things if they're, seeing written by Eric Harrison his journal, things written by dylan, delicately, bold and his journal, in the way they did the way that the two interacted together. This was stuck

for a long time by a lot appeal is going to continue to be studied to, and I'm not saying that you're wrong in that they did their right. I'm just saying there there appears to be quite a bit There's a mountain of evidence that the urine and my best friend in a high school was this: he was more shy and social situations. But then you know when we're hanging out with me and him. It's like you shut up you, but now we got from people and he would, Talk at all- and I would talk- the time, but I feel like. I don't know me, made a lot of the videos one seem more alpha than the other, how did they they both had done there nicknames. You know that the nicknames. I know the one by another one. What was the one? You rob, Yes, so aircars goes by the nickname, read that stands for short for rebel, which oddly

I dont know if if he was being sarcastic or if he's. Maybe is, I don't want to put any words to it, but it rebel was the school mascots for somebody who appears to hate his school as much as anybody could have been like you know like rebel army. be a star wars, reference right yeah, saw, I mean there's an, but Basically it was his online game handle yes, are e, be all capitals. Dylan. Cleave old goes by vodka, apparently drink a lot of vodka. Aircars, but fancies himself, a jack Daniels. Man they both smoked, camels and again rumoured that they smoke camels, because Eric picked the brand

I see that as an alibi that, because they didn't you d say just a little bit ago. That's also people that Dylan was kind of a protector of Eric. So that's why? I thought, I'd I'd, just fine, all that stuff silly like or Eric. the alpha? Well how's the alpha. If they ve one thinks he's the protector. How does that make any sense. I don't know I mean he's the quiet, he's a quiet projector had he said, he'd been, neither of them appear to be quiet, not in the video at but, and all I'm saying is that Dylan might have been more reserved and around other people, and so when they see Eric's be in the same and then dylan being quiet than that I all Eric's, the alpha Eric is there is a poor in his journal where he he complains about being left out of things. He

was big into nazi he was big into Adolf hitler and he and he wouldn't make reference to that alot Even in social situations which may ended up, making him an outcast. I mean, if you're around summit, nobody wants to talk about nazi stuff. Nobody wants to hear about it or be rather reminded of it. All or if somebody's, putting it in a humorous way, why, as colleagues, what I said about April twentieth been enough hitler's birthday, and like I said, I only know that cause it's my birthday men. I bring that up. Everytime time says my birthday. I've got some looks before but I'll bring it up, because I think it's horribly depressing wait a second. I was born born the same day as this jackass Ok, so you're saying that he brings up law this nazi, stop at the amateur speculation that they did it on hitler's birthday as a contributor.

Yes, and it's also speculated that the arrears attack was supposed to be on Monday april nineteenth but due to some setbacks, they had to unleash the attack. The following day. So that's that's one, those things in the media that this thing is funny like. Ok, well, they did on Hitler's birthday they either plan to do it on hitler's birthday or while now. Actually, we think it was on the nineteenth, but there set back, I think the teeth in was the actual date of thee? oklahoma city bombing and other, obviously not the same year, but a law. With his nazi love. Let's call it, he has he aircars does a lot of studying and a lot of talk of timothy mcveigh who perpetrated Oklahoma city bombing. Even there's even reference to either one of his journals or on

his website where it said That he wanted to talk to me MC phase, kill cow love sixty eight and that's why, in the trailer says that they are preparing their putting together their planning, the largest? school shooting large. School massacre in his if the united states, thank god they They stumbled quite a bit in they weren't able to top those numbers from from that bath. The house, killing way in nineteen, twenty seven right. so here s a little bit of a timeline leading up to April twentieth. Ninety, ninety nine. I want to take you back. This is hopefully about a year and a half beforehand january of nineteen, ninety eight. The two of them were caught breaking into a vehicle. This was like one of those big white. Allow trickle vans. They broke into the van to steal you know electrical equipment, anything that they can get their hands on hardware and things like that. They are

caught. I don't recall how they were caught, but they end up being both being charged. Breaking and entering an theft, yandah gun diverging pro yeah they're in in this diversion programme. They have to submit, like writing samples of apologies, and I don't know if they have to or that was an option yeah further along there to show that they ve been rehabilitated from from what they ve done. And there was some community service involved. The. the supervisor in charge the programme. He comments that, dylan, just kind of seems to be going through the moat, the the motions to to get through this. And get it over with Is more he seems more on top

It is easy to go the extra mile. He writes a nice apology letter and he I think They even got out of the programme. Early because of the effort that the air was showing yeah I mean, and what I to me when I hear that stuff, it's like ok also wants the environment with the parents, because, if I If I'm arrested for crime and junior senior in high school. There would have been seniors at that point so there was it well. This would have been late there junior year. This is what have, in january, of ninety lots its normal captain, fantastic stuff, to be wrong. Please, I'm not saying this. Nineteen eighty nine so we're talking junior year but junior year, I get arrested for somethin my pay, Wanna harp on me, so bad during this diverse program that

I'm probably gonna write a letter whether or not I believe it or not. The watchful eye has been opened yet, but I think some of though some of these I'm gonna go down a real. We had road and I dont want yes, I know coupon sam diving into stuff too much, but I think. So one side of things is: maybe his parents pushing them or maybe lights sum of discipline that go along the divergent programme. or maybe is this also really bored? So is this happy to be doing something you know so anyways bite. So the point of the whole thing is down his car like. Why? Don't really care to be here and Eric seems to be For almost thriving he is again awarded an early. You know an early out by the supervisor,

march of nineteen. Ninety eight, this just two months later, aircars heat. Now he. He has a falling out with a kid at school books. Brown his website that you spoke of earlier, where he has the Doom you know boards are you can get on their play that he's created the dylan's helped whether created himself works as his body thou bro. at one time ends up being as but yeah during. March of ninety eight he's brooks Brown is not aircars his body. He cares has a little blog on his website now now mind you. This is a high school kids website and just like phantastico said that the internet was not super huge back, then he was getting very few views a day which AL gore just starting what He makes threatening statements about books but

on his website, saying that you know, You're gonna shoot me, so you know, or even references some things about a possible Doing some of these things at school being violent at school, This is reported by brooks brown to browns parents then call the police locally. But I wonder if brooks brown is plain. The doom game, with these guys he Well, he would have had to have been granted access. I believe, to this website. I don't know, I don't know that anybody could just law gone and get there. I think that he may have received. An invite to be. a part of that website originally by deal it in. For whatever reason, he may have still been a part of that website when these threats go start happening wonder how will real these threats were?

and how much of it is just the media blowin somethin. Well, they were real enough that a a police officer who view The threats wrote he up an avid affidavit and never found, well, they said there was never any follow up on these threats. There was never any follow up to see if hey, if I'm threatening you with a gun, let's go check out and see. If this kid has guns, yeah and this was actually kept quiet- by the Jeff, co short for jefferson, county sheriffs department,. four years after columbine after the the actual areas. The speculation is that if they took these threats seriously that they would have had Eric arrested, yeah seriously or maybe just do party your job. Your paid to do a job. If if he saw enough evidence on their two right up the affidavit you and I

no the cops and detectives don't just sit around riding up papers for the heck of it. You have a But, very though there is another thing, though, there are obviously friends at some point there are obviously friends that and and There will be more evidence of that and slow bit of that these guys- know each other for pretty well and there they tell me, even though the time of the threats for not show me, and it could have been something that silly as Eric light some girl and protests, It could have been very silly or it could have been straight bullshit. However, it is against the law to threaten somebody's life. What if the resident like bullshit trash talk, you know like hey, while I'm going to bungling to destroy you I'm going to blow you owe then Eric Harris. He should have said it. Instead of typing it yeah. yeah I get your point about what I'm saying is, I think,

is a possibility that the cops just gonna go. Ok, I don't see what the big deal is. nineteen. This is december of ninety eight. There throw the cops under the boss like all. Well, you know what the miss this of the we're doing their job. They were caught this nano. I think so I don't I don't, disagree with you. This is clearly not the cops fault, but because he does stop using the blog part of his website. Yes, yoke is so I mean there is some compliance as far as you know, can so then, if you do see some compliance, then I think cops, you go okay, while he complied to not make any more threats the other, but the other part of that to those this kid is already been charged with breaking and entering in theft. now, just two months later you're seeing written- written threats. They did

Now I see that he knows that the potential victims can see these threats guide us I don't know, I think people people look at things hindsight and then their so called to throw cops under the boss, light and you know what this never would have happened. If the cops did their job. This never would have happened if the parents did their job. This, never would've happened. If Eric and Dylan were actually kind of, and beans. This, never what there's a million things that could of should have taken place to stop him. well back up. The bus, fantastic out is I'm about to throw a whole another group under their gags, I'm gettin. First. In december of ninety. Ninety eight. your school project

Eric Harris and Dylan klebold school project yeah. I find this really interesting you you brought this up today and I I didn't they. They make a video and you- and I have both seen this video and I'm sure a lot of other people have it's called the hitman for hire. I haven't seen the whole thing, but there's clips and the home video footage. So a quick a quick background on on what the the film that they put together as it's a short film and the basic plot of it is that Eric and Dylan are the. hit men for higher. So if you are going to school at columbine and a lot of this footage, if not all of it was shot on school grounds or in the school, is You can hire them if you, if your, if your kid is getting bullied or getting picked on, you can hire them to take care of the bully for you. That kind of like the mob he's clips. You have Eric

telling the person that wants to hire them, that you know We can, we can take care of this person for you, we can make them disappear, we could do you know, we can rough em up for you on school grounds, but you know Far as as guns, and things like that, we can't can't bring those things on school grounds. So if you want anything more drastic than us protecting You here, you know we're gonna have to Set thing something up outside of school: cracks his knuckles, I think so. Yeah eric acts very tough it in their. So tough. Actually, I got a sound clip. You wanted. You wanna hear a yeah some people, like the sound clips. The rye halo right how about you ride into the show go to true true crime, garage dot, com click on contacts and if you hate the sound clips, let nick now, Have you really like we're picking up this, I'm so good?

Van bridges paint I The ship do not score with that. Little kid. If you do over your goddamn had the show assault bar up your treasure want holler upon you you know all about your goddamn had so far up your brilliant you'll chopping up. General report rightly remarks care. What you say if you ever touch him again, I will tell you what Don't

was pace. If that is from a school price this there's a lot of content and yet, and so what you ve heard. There is the first three takes where, where the kid struggling to get through his cousin the the bully right. That's that's dylan, cleave old. And you can see him in his trench- cope with as with his backwards by in red sox hat on spam. and he's he's you know screaming, and this is in satellite- was so angry. They did videotape this in the school this was in one of the hallways of the school, and it doesn't make sense. That is the school project, though, if that's why the cousin, and that the the second person you here who too, who does his

his thing in one take, is: is Eric Harris, so Eric's the better actor? No, it absolutely makes no sense, because in my school they will have thrown me out of there. For that. However, I from all accounts that I found that was their school project. It's talking about killing other students, whether they be bullies or not right, but was that was it for? Is that like a film class or something maybe and maybe there's a stain in the school where they're like you know what we're going to? Let the kids make real films and cuss, because kids, cuss and I dunno- The stranger, I think. The cousin part would Perk up my ears as a teacher just as much as the killing people part well and then, at the end of the film there's a short little clip where they're they're telling kid, this getting picked on that hey. We took care business for ya. Then he's of thank some and whatever he walks away and then Dylan and Eric speak to one another, real, quick and basic what they're saying is well now that we're

what that hey, I'm kind of board. Why? Why don't we take care this kid so right there they're going from even in their short little fell. they're going from killing or hurting the bully threatening the bullies to anybody or the people being bullied and makes that makes me want to dive into this bullying thing a little bit. So, as we all know, there are plenty of books, and there are plenty of I commend trees on this case and one of the books that came out was by brooks brown. The kid there was getting threatened on aircars website and in this book he describe some of the bullying that he their witnessed or believed that the Eric Kaerusson, Dylan, cleave old, were a part of this apparent. Took place. mainly in their junior year,

in their stories of being pelted in the lunchroom by jocks, by a group of kids were in other throwing check it catch packets at them, and then there were there was a story to of Dylan by himself, where he's getting there, in tampons adam that they ve covered with catch up and he would. He says in his book that that dillon go home and. Tell his mother that that that was the stay of his life right. now there's another book and let us go back of the question for you now, nor does it state. I mean it states that there be bullied by jocks, but is it stated that the job the same age, their peers or that are they seniors. Well, what

brooks brown, your exactly right. What brooks brown says is that that there was a lot of bullying going on it, that school and that Eric and Dylan were not the only targets that many of the children were were bullied and why took place as what you what you just said. It was a lot of the upper classmen picking on the the underclass, which makes. It sat in a way that that's a lot of these other people. Then have to. endure the repercussion or the revenge actually didn't happen to some I'm not saying that the bullies deserve revenge, but a lot of the people that got The revenge of this a bowling were, might even been at school. At the time. but I could see how it would create a hatred for that group, especially if it's the worse day of your life for at the time you're in high school, so every

It's kind of like when you are dating somebody and they broke up with you. It's the worst thing in the world. You know well and in that I heard that the jocks at columbine were. people par. This jock group were people that war. They all wore white hats. That was something that they did. I dont know if that was just a fashion thing at the time, but this does make air like a tradition, type thing like all it wasn't just like football players, but it was like all sports all sports. They, they must have like a sports or or people that are part of those clicks. Where you you might not. Even had it been an actual wrathfully to hanging out outward wearing this white hat being part of the group, but this bring me too, are recommended reading portion of this. The show, like I said, there's many books out there. I didn't read most of them. I've read pieces of them,

the one that I did read. The full story of was up of boycott columbine, and this Is by dave column this was a new york times best seller. edgar award winner in a good reads: award winter. This This didn't come out for many years the crime took place and ninety ninety nine dave call ended about ten years of research. Before this book was published and release. there is also a john mayer reference to faded white hats ever hear that song now and no such thing. He talks about that with the jobs with the faded hats. I wonder I don't remember me now to senior at the time. About our remember any of aid by my school with his fade away had then and again it could have been. It could have been nothing and in and actually in David Collins book, He speaks of the opposite where he says that did

Eric Harrison Dylan were quite the bullies themselves. whether this is top behaviour or just how they were is stated in the book and there's a weird thing where our talks, a lot about natural selection saw I wonder if bullying was kind like trickled down. You know economics, you know you nowhere, The jobs are picking on people like Eric and Dylan and then dylan and adequate picking on me. No lesser then. You know, like our assembly by senior, so now we're bullying, sophomores and freshmen. Yeah, it's almost like the cream rises to the top. You know where their end, He was aircars was a big fan of that natural selection. In fact, on the day of the event he will wear shirt it says, natural selection on it and in the general thought of that, is

the strong survive in the week do not write, and maybe that maybe that's why he was such a fan of that. Maybe he saw himself as it has a weaker individual who had become strong and he mentions something either in one under home videos or he mentions a journal entry. when they did that robbery he's pissed off that society has his whole thing Why should I? Why should I be in trouble for stealing disguise stuff? If I, if I'm capable of stealing his stuff and he's not capable of stopping me, why should I be in trouble? any references, natural selection, to the timeline.

If I was going to say that the hitman for hire, if that was in fact, a school project that they turned in, I was going to squid, throw the teachers under the bus a little bit. It doesn't mean that I think that they could have prevented this thing. It doesn't mean that I think that they should have had some kind of foresight, but again it was a red flag. yeah, it's so hard to say it's not. That's not! for common behavior. I understand that their kids in their acting out of it, but that's not something. You see a lot of a lot. I would think most kids would say I can't turn this thing in this can't be my school project, its violent theirs. Cursing. Unless, like I said, unless the in the silent, they were allowed to curse or something I don't know like, maybe they're allowed tat violence and not just note You gotta understand that this. Ah this event, change the way we viewed a lot of things in our minds.

It changed the way. We view bullying and changed the way we ve it fundamentally changed the way cops handle handle These situations and let's fast forward on our timeline along it, so that that end that ends. Ninety ninety eight. Ninety ninety nine eight sixteen! This is a friday. Okay, so dillon and erika working at the black jack pizza place now Over the course of these months Eric receive that promotion that I had mentioned he's making. I don't like seven sixty five hours and dylan is making. Fifty an hour. Now they are using their money, a good portion of their income to see purchasing these weapons in this takes place before April. They they both purchase, shot, guns,

They each have a villain has attacked nine, and I believe Eric Harris has a handgun, nine pistol and others a list on Wikipedia, but allow that the roma Wikipedia. You can't always. They all sat a sort of shot gun that ninety nine explosives deal dylan sawed off the shock and they They both had similar shot guns, Dylan solved his off in, Was for concealment? That's why people sell off shot guns, as is to be able to conceal them to walk into a place unnoticed. then pull it out Are you again they're using their money to not only by hand gun, and ammo and shot guns, they're using it to buy probe in tanks and those close if that you spoke of.

on the on the sixteenth, which the friday, before the attack, both ask for advances on their upcoming paycheck. Now these are ours that they have already worked, but there Skiing, hey, instead of waiting to get my paycheck. Can I go and get some of that money now they're asking for this money, because their event is coming soon and they are low on ammo right and light. We talked about it. We. think that, initially that they wanted to have the attack on the Monday correct. Saturday April, seventeenth is the problem, so You know we ve all we ve all been a high school. We ve all been

the prom. What typically happens on the friday that the prince allow little room game? They feel bad. If they didn't go the problem, I didn't go to problems that the principal or the coach or the earth teacher stands up and in talks about drinking and driving we did. We want to see all of you return on Monday. They don't have any incidents. Eric does not attend the prom. it does sound like he was trying to go to the prom had a little trouble finding a date. Dylan go. With a young girl name, robin anderson, and this is actually somebody that help them purchase guns earlier. What's a winner of a day, I guess so Monday, the nineteenth all the kids are I know incidents at the prom everybody returns. The school was normal. Now this lot of speculation that this was the original date for the attack. What

Hold up was that there is a gentleman named mark means who was supposed to deliver ammo to Eric. He was getting more and of this. This didn't get delivered to him until the evening of the nineteenth, potentially delaying the attack one day. My phone make sense. but we could also go back to wait. Let's just go back Six weeks ago, because he I do he's haven't some issues, any ends up targets, counselor Eric does and they, amongst all off you have that so six weeks for this? They put him on zoloft and that's not working because they said that he's Heaven suicidal thoughts. and a couple the documentaries I saw. It also says that he is haven't homicidal thoughts which I I don't know true that is it

He is, I mean, he's he's already writing in his journal about no, no, I don't dispute that he's. Not you know, he's obviously, by an ammo and making bombs I think it's just. I think it's also after the fact stuff, where it's like gathers evidence in his journal on theirs in his actions, both donor. How much he's actually saying that too? Is there a place? Therapists, I think, therapists standpoints more I'm having suicidal thoughts and then, Switching from Saul off to another, two were lou vocs, yeah ally that stuff takes. You know a lot. time to actually just in the system, but they had plans, they were talking about plans of this a year in advance correct, so they face speculated it's in. Maybe they get this reference from the journals but bore

basement tapes, but they figured out at some time in nineteen. Ninety eight, they say We're going to do this attack sometime in role of ninety ninety nine yeah. They did. They don't give a specific day, but they ve already planned the month in the year. An dylan in Eric start calling this their little judgement day. and I wonder- and I was speculate too much, but I just wonder if if one of them actually was more serious about this or if it was the same, your colleagues from the silly project that they had, that they want actually gone to ever see through Yeah, I'm sam, like. like one time me. My boys were hanging out on a friday night. Just doing nothing and we did discuss on how would rob a bank

We never robbed the bank, but we talked about it. You know and then there's a couple times during school that we this would have run France's to this conversation that we had said. Ok, well you you and your buddy sat around and talked about yet robbing a bank peep people do that this. This is What they sat around and talked about date and their basic plan, was to create a decoy bomb and they run They were going to leave this in a park that then, too far from the schools, roadway them generally reminds, and this he's gonna, be like your standard propane tank. Using aerosol kansas, detonators. This was to divert the police and fired up to the first responders are all going to go to this park and then now we're going to carry out the actual attack, which I don't remember at the time and like it says, just senior, but I don't remember ever that venus situation

or hearing about that situation. More when I was an end when the vat I shoulda happen, the sex act of the attack. it's going to be a massive explosion in the comments now this commons area. This is the lunch area that surrounded by an open area and they could hold. They would have as many as five or six hundred kids in this area at a time in and this would be between lunches. Now, columbine would allow students- I dont, know all the classmen are just upper classmen to leave for, lunch or to go elsewhere in the building. So at times, even though they would have five or six hundred kids at the start of a lunch period, once lunch actually started, they would probably have about three. May before answered the Let us assume that there's four launched periods, his there's just there are five hundred students and

the commons area at the time around eleven o clock. right. So we get this assume that there's four sessions so there are doing at the first lunch. Then there are like set off, two propane bombs, guess and This is going to one create, casualties inside the school and it's going to send the survivors out the entrances or out the exits of the school right now this school, like I said in the trailer, is a huge schools. Two hundred and fifty thousand square foot they had Twenty five entrances and exits at for this building. now the two main ones were out near the front so you have the main entrance there's two main parking lot correct and there exits by both of those now what there,

would be is that one of them would position themselves in front of one of these doors, and the other would be perfect position in front of the other door. I'm certain if they were going to be up on the sidewalk or if they were still going to be in the parking lot. But there thought was that they could, shoot the survivors as they flee the building. Through these two main exits. This would give on their access to more survivors and any other devastating implosion that then the That's only one fourth of the school would be in that room so, then, the other three fourths of the school after this davis the explosion would also then be trying to evacuate, so it be, time to pick off everybody in this Oh they wanted to set up an interlocking firing laid and what the would be as if I were to the right of you and you were to the left of me in the past. that we were firing at are in front of us now. If

they're going to come out of these doors in that they're gonna come straight out of the exits. I'm gonna shoot at the people in front of my door. You should it the people in front of your door after any It either gets by that door, they're going to start naturally scattering whether it be to the left or the right of their doors. What their thought would be. more people would end up in the middle and therefore you could aim Diagonal, which would fire in front of me, and I would aim diagonal firing in front of you, where we could the people in the middle years and not have to worry about accidentally shooting one another and also not worrying about the police at the time, because they have the diversion they are still at the park. All of this is taking place within a matter of minutes yeah and there's also explosions placed in the parking lot. Well, they had explosions in their vehicles and they were gonna, have some minor explosives on themselves. This leads us to act. Number three act. Three.

Would be once the police and fire figure out what is actually going on now. They're gonna have to respond to the school. and this is where we're gonna use, whatever we have left to harm, first responders, meaning blow up vehicles. For a fire on them right So well, but not now, let us back up a little bit, because this is their plan but they're, not yet at school. So it's the April, twentieth and actually they don't show up to school in now mind you within that within the just just days before air. his scrambling around to gather propane tanks and into his last delivery of ammunition, they ever say if they got their advance on their check. Yes, he did, they got it. sudan are mainly where throw him under the bus black jack

pizza. It's all their fault. You want to go through the day of the event, yeah so April twentieth, nineteen, ninety nine, This is in the early morning, they get together, they being arrogant dillon record. One final basement tape session and they leave tapes to be found. After the event, before eleven am they leave. the park and they drive separately. Now, I'm just going to ask a question because I don't know what did they leave to be found? like a suicide note or something they, I believe, Eric, left a tape specifically for his parents to find, and he and I think he either left it on the kitchen counter or on the kitchen table. So this would be found a media was that released to the police yes, that was released to the police,

I'm not certain, but I think Dylan may have left a note. A very short note that says something like I'm This is something we have to do They leave driving separate vehicles that they both have their own cars. drives. A hundred prelude in dylan drives a old vintage bmw that his father restored form, which is nicer than what I was driving lot nicer than when I was driving to Eric. Is and cargo pants in you and I discuss this before they it's almost like they, they plant Did they plan their attack, they planned what they were going to wear as well ex wearing cargo pants as well as dylan and Eric's wearing a white teeth this is natural selection. he's wearing black combat boots and he's wearing a glove single glove the right hand, glove Dylan is wearing

black t shirt in it has printed on the word wrath. Says he's wearing black combo belts boots as well, but he's wearing the left black glove. They have one set of gloves ones where in the left ones where the right and dylan's wherein his trademark red sox cap turned backwards. So so they're big Michael Jackson, fans you're, saying and I think it's funny, though I mean I don't want to harp on that too much, but it's kind of funny that the only have one pair of gloves well. We got one perilous split on they I left some pipe bombs behind as well and I don't think they were left with the purpose of exploding. Maybe it was just an accident they left them behind, but they'd have enough of enough space or police would later find two pipe bombs at Eric's house and six at dylan's house. These could have just been

pipe bombs that they'd infant could finish construction honour for whatever reason they were left there. They they. I've in separate vehicles to dump the decoys bombs at the field and they set their timer for eleven fourteen. I wonder why that number do you know like in fourteen that's yeah. Well, they needed to eleven. Fourteen was roughly the time that the bell was going to ring so that people would be shut. being entered this large period, perfect sense and they As I said earlier at the beginning of the lunch period, there is a lot more kids there. That's when they wanted to have The bombs detonate in the school. so they they leave the decoy bombs set for eleven fourteen, a m and then they drive to school Eric again supper. Eric arrives around eleven ten. There are already behind schedule.

And parks in his spot in the senior lot and air parkes in the junior law about a hundred yards to the right. Dylan Eric chose. His spot because this was the position of the main entrance and said before he believes more students would be fleeing from this access. This is where the inner the encounter. with bryce brooks brown takes place, works he sees brooks brown in the parking lot, and this very interesting as as he's kind of. Here's what happened. So, let's just back a couple periods, so that's what's happening and world and Dylan's world and eleven tat what's happening, brooks world. As that is in class he realizes that Eric's not class with them. thinks that this is odd because Eric nor my doesn't is any major events like tat

and stuff like that, and that's the first thing that that Brooks says to Eric. You know: hey dude, where you been yeah well cause, then what happens is next period. He is supposed to have class with Eric again. So at this point there show me and then as like look now. This is a little strange. I mean if you skip one class, I do old time, but to say two classes and then maybe in the end, I think some of this is hindsight too. You know, but it Finally, there was odd. So then he goes out to his law. Smoking corner because he said between these periods. It always go brooks. This is brooks without tis or smoking Well, they had a they had, a section that they would allow smoking did ya I dont know that if it because it was just office just enough off of school grounds or if they actually let the Eighteen year old, older kids?

Go to this area to be by themselves, as an oak brooks is out there smoke and he sees Eric pull up unease that mediately thinking, I'm going to figure out why he wasn't there exactly and not only that. Why is Eric parking in the junior lot now and so he goes up and start picking on Eric right away, more, but not you take it in a chummy way there. You know who hate bag. Why you been in school type thing: yeah yeah, what's wrong? There was a test earlier today and broke as that air reply was It doesn't matter anymore, brooks I'll. You now so get out of here go home. So whatever happened to new here with the threats- That's over and done with it works also makes the the statement that you know I I was kind of just you know. Picking on the in a friendly way by some kind of person amount. So he this shot me which

we as far as like the whole numbers, you know, he's really set on having you know, Eric's really set on making history with this. You thank you. Take anybody and everybody down. Eric, says in his journals that this is going to be we we gotta make our mark on history and he also again references timothy mcveigh and he wants to top that number in, but I think a lot of as dislike this. this kind of. How do I put this this fantasy and his head and his head he's thinking. This is gonna, be soup. This is and this is gonna- be big. This is gonna, be this gonna make history. This is gonna. This definitive. This is gonna be bigger than timothy mcveigh. And then the first person he runs into just somebody. He knows he likes and I That's where this psychological breakdown really starts change and for

for both of them well in as he's having that interaction with brooks brown, he's law putting up his duffel bag. That's loaded with a propane tank bomb yeah that did he fashioned in in he's get to carry that into the school, and the senior lot is dylan whose The same thing he's grabbing his duffel bag, now they're gonna go into the into the school, and eleven fourteen. They both enter the comments and they dropped. The bombs at pre determined locations. They were gonna put these near pillars now this school big it's it's. It's got three different level. So in this commons area you have one level that overlooks another they're gonna play: these by pillars to do maximum damage and then I think it's the commons area and on top of the commons area, is actually the library it yes stack

drop their duffel bag. This, of course, goes unnoticed cause you got five or six hundred kids in this area, all with duffel bag or most with duffel bag. doesn't appear to be anything out of the norm? they then returned to their vehicles? And now that now they're gonna gather their weapons and their goal? get their positions for. After the had robbed, went off now, they're back and pardon they went back to the party grabbing backpack they grabbing there. There firearms and backpacks full of pipe bombs and crickets idle I'm not sure what I ve never been in the military. I don't play with a lot of guns, I don't understand what a cricket is. I googled it and all I got was pictures of of the insect I imagine with some sort I'm here I mentioned some kind of small explosive, so good lighten toss with your hand. Do we so basically we're

shut up for the vat, the happening there waiting on these pipe on these propane tanks to explore out now and the supper location. We have the decoy bomb goin off Now, yes, and if there is actually more than one bomb- and I think only one of them went off and created quite the quite a small explosion. Yoga all I did was start a little fire in the fire was put out relatively easy. It wasn't a thin big enough that even made the fire department think all while this is a decoy, or this was supposed to be something bigger than it was that small was even now their standing there they're waiting for their part, to go off in the comments and what happens Their bad bomb makers- yes, thank god, there bad bombing that because the casualties may not. Joking aside, I mean that's. Their plan. Actually, you know

not- and this is- was that sandals What I don't even the word as this is a gross about, but I think combine happen and not knowing all the details, but I think this is like one of the discussions that was brought up a lot, and I think for me you hear these things about Eric one in it to be this no end all be all scenario really feeling like that he missed the mark on this. but then gaudy did you know all joking aside, because their plan was a good plan. As for us- creating a lot of damage, so they these two bombs, it's gonna, go off around five hundred. People. And that and that's on the first level. So then, if the bombs work, yes if hundred people that could be endanger, plus it messes with structure huh

people in the library I mean we are hundred more Perry and all kinds of things that are there don't go off. So now they decide we're gonna go into the school. We, firearms. We got pipe bombs with us. Then I think that both at the same entrance at this for correct they end up going in the same entrance. They see rachel Scott and reminds us before they go and righteous for they go and they see richer, rachel, scott and richard castrato, and They ve they fire both of these. These kids apparently eric- leading the charge she'll Scott, is killed. Richard is paralyzed and then they move into the building there were not gonna go through every attack I mean it's it's a little to brutal too, to discuss

The numbers are too high, but Basically, they make their way through the hallway shooting at at tat, the different kids and I think they did a lot of injuring rather than killing there is. There is a lot more people that survived. Thank god that their there there plan didn't work, the way they they the two, but But I also think there was a lot of psychological confusion going on. I mean obviously they're confused of their decided now. They're gonna do this. You know now horrific event and but I think they're there. I just think that their. plan from the word go, be another bomb saint go off There were ready for that and when and they got the bombs and go off because I think of the bomb said: go off.

they are shooting into crowds of people. Of course, a faceless crowd is what they would have been shooting at an idle think they would have had they want I have time to make judgments. So the first shootings. I still think that there's a stain psychological of. Now there seeing people face to face another, it's it's now close on personal data and in it it feels a real. It feels a lot different than playing doom after they make their way through the hallway and up in the library purposefully they think there's gonna be a lot of kids in their there's. There's at this point kids have already been fleeing and others, Fifty six kids hiding in the library, this and you can watch it on documentaries. We don't need to go into too much, but they do get a little. They get

okey and they get they. They do kind of talk some of the kids, but why was the teachers the one that and the sub I feel like I'm being rude to him, but So when their shootings gone on outside I think they they shoot the two victims, the first victims and as their shooting there's other shots going on outside before they enter the school. So there's kids like going to the window. You know because nobody knows what's goin on like hey, what's going on outside And everybody this kind of thought it was like a senior prank milk is the guy, I'm so bad things The worst thing, but the guiding paralyse the first kid gap Eric richard cause at all it s eye richard. Talks about how they have these You know they light off a pipe pipe bomb before, actually shoot him and by.

I think it was like a bomb bomb. He disclosed kite fireworks, her younger, as this is not of the same year press shit. So then you got people inside one or what the hell's goin on Alex, we got some people I shot outside. They shot multiple people outside, not just those two there's, some other ones. And one of the teachers comes in and. I think he just kind of has this feeling that this ain't prank And so he starts Tom people go into the classrooms. This is Dave sanders. So Stave sanders spends the first several minutes of this attack. Yeah he's a hero here he's he's running through the hallways is putting himself in harm's way to help kids and he's he's telling them too get under desk to lock the the classroom doors tat to hide

or to get out of the building can, he probably saved a whole lot of lives by telling those kids to hide under desk till two locked. stay given saying: go to this room now that It makes sense to me back then, nineteen. Ninety nine, because school wasn't super up to or anything. So you could be in a room, but I guess these rooms, if you lie, then you could leave the room, but And are the room so he not only saying go into this room, but he's gone and locking the man show I think his theory and I think it was a good woman, it will put you in this room is for me hard for To get in, and Fourthly, we get help by then so an at this point he doesn't know if there's just to shooters, maybe there's

you a more at one point- the police thought there was possibly eight suitors, but continue once in the in the the life very that's where, More, the shooting goes on. There's more More kids were killed in the library than anywhere else. At some point d, coach Dave sanders who who was running through the halls and in telling the kids to hiding locking the doors is phantastico had said. He ends up getting shot and a one of other teachers. notices that sanders is down. He's down in one of the hallways he's in harm's way. He could be shot lily again in these badly shot battling owned, it I think, on the shoulder in the neck. He he, this teacher, ask if anybody knows first day,

and there's a student aaron hanley, He he raises Hannah says I know first aid and he he risk himself? He runs through the hallway too fine coach sanders and he starts administering first aid, I do believe that I know if they moved him, are not like it, but will they then up in science lab. and then whether in the lab I mean this kid. Basically, this stayed with him and the whole time? I mean he thought, while these wounds are bad but he's coherent and he's gonna be able to get out get surgery, so continue, but I but there I don't wanna the vat let's say even if it starts at eleven, because I mean I don't wanna get. like the seconds of how long the venice, but is roughly an hour of time yet The parking lot it at eleven ten in and they there in

cool by eleven fourteen and so there's a lot of things and I know I said I don't want to point the finger, but there is it that dramatically changed because of this event, what so as they're gone, how much detail you want to go into the timeline their confused that there that the bombs and go off so now there on the library they get. So the library and the FAO, then they say is: do you know this? is this: where they ask the jocks to stand up yeah, they will all the jobs to stand up and. And this is where people then, because you have to create motive. Is you know it's just this route revenge. Now it's a revenge on the jocks, but. See I think, when people think of this viewpoint, troubling made, because the message

point that the point of Eric and doing doing what they're doing was the rival some of them. Its terrorist attacks. this country has ever seen so I said I think a lot of stuff is psychological. The plans changing, ok our ideas we're gonna blow up this building? All these he will come running out. We run into shoe into the crowds faces crowds. Now the bombs don't go off and now are If people want to times, then I think that's when their motive changed, or you know well yeah yeah in Harris yells get up, you know he he keep. He comes into the to the library and he says all job stand up work to get the guys in the white hats. course nobody stands up there, still hiding under their desk and under the tables yeah, and he says heiresses will find I'll, just start shooting anyway.

he fires is shot gun twice at a desk. He doesn't know the student that he shooting at and I got. This student wasn't wasn't killed. He he was just slightly injured, yeah, there's a lot of students that are injured in this because they're just randomly shooting there's a lot of times. I believe that an even though the shooting. At random stuff in its motorcars. Fear tat. again, I got there taunting the taunting them a bit. Some of it power thing dislike. But I also think it is also too scared. Individuals don't really know what to do at this point like Unlike our plans, not working ok, so, ok, now here's the pathway run take. Don't think there were ready for some of that stuff. As I said, fifty six kids were hiding in the library they ended up.

Killing ten people on the librarian wounding twelve thirty four remained unharmed. though the same that I find it odd about their their law. The victims was their age and. You not just in this conversation eat out as we everybody wants to know. Why, and I think that's why what people? talk about the bullying. and yeah, maybe the bowling, Here's where that doesn't make law says to me, as if your game, picked on by a group of people a say group of forty people Why would you want to try to kill two thousand people in school. If forty people were to blame. These same like that I don't know if that was even farther motive until their plans

work like you, I think it's just a piece. a piece of the motive, but I think this blow it up to beg. You know like our words, because I got bullied and because but No, I think part of it was we're going to make history and we're gone too. That was the biggest part of it I think was. Was they wanted to make their mark they wanted? To? I mean why try to top somebody else's number, unless that's your your motive, yeah Oh, they leave the library go back into the cafeteria, they go into the kitchen. During this time there there firing off explosives, they're, they're kind of running out of energy. There is also seen: did you see the scene where, as actual footage security footage from Columbine high school, where they're shooting at the propane tanks are still trying to The go off exactly

Was we're about that and I think the video I saw if they said the first suicide attempt If actually knew that, if the bombs went off that there we harmed or yeah I mean like, the other that was their first and our two seems like he shoot him Adam no big deal like of this goes off. It goes off. So at twelve o two they re entered the library and now and they ve been gone. All of the surviving student. and people that were in the library have fled. Once there in there and approximately twelve o eight. there was there was a person. Injured earlier patty nielson, She had locked herself inside a break room, that's who, with a student, And alive in library, staff and she

here's harrison. Cleave old shit. in unison, one two, three, Words are followed by the gunfire this. This was the suicide heresy. Harris had fired a shot gun through the roof of his mouth and dylan, clear, bald head himself in the left temple with his with his technique. Okay, so I just wanna go back loading. I know you don't want to go into every detail, and if you're wikipedia that they cannot go through a timeline of of single that and again How true wikipedia is a man so does the documentary zero hour yeah zero hour was really good documentary. I thought one the actual footage that they use the reenactment was was pretty.

and then all the witnesses that they use the use, brooks as a witness but in the library like they're just pick off a lotta under class man. I mean there was some Juniors and seniors, but there is a lot of fun tina sixteen year old when would go against the whole bully theory, they also had one bodies that he'll call them out like Eric is that you are like you know,. Are you state your name and then he says always man let him go. I think Dylan's, the one that says get then get out of here and he takes off running down and then one of the jobs one that like head jocks of the school they find he's injured at the youth hit with some trap nor somethin and they pull them out kick him a little bit.

and I think this is where all this stuff psychologically. I don't think there were ready for her any of this. You know they do mentioned too, that the guy that they let go What are you guys doing said our this? You know we're just killing people or the current people, but I dont I think they're my it's at this point, from what they thought was gonna go down on eleven now, almost twelve o clock. I think that answer. Does swimmin They don't know what to do. So then they end up leaving what you said and then they end up. but before they commit suicide, There is some more that arrive at this point, I think, there's like eight units, and they end up trying to fire at some of those units yeah. They do a brief shoot out with the with the police.

And then there's a lot speculation that I think it was it was either here. I don't want it. zither, Eric or Dylan, which I know that, there's only two options, but one had maybe it's a bad cut on the nose, talking about, like in the shoot out like one of em, like a lot of the witnesses or a lot of the eye. Witnesses were saying that one of the programme- words were words was dealing with andrey on the face, but if you shoot yourself and the face that suicide most people lose the front of their face. Other one now How can I noticed a cut on the nose? I writing as you said, cops police started arriving in ends. They get in the shoot out it's at Oh nine p m

swat teams to swap teams enter the school. Act in the protocol was not too too enter a building and engage in an attack because the thought was that these mass shootings. while we do here about them from front from time to time. It's me More common that you're gonna end up with a hostage situation rather than someone that she's going and trying to kill for numbers. So a lot of times. What you would do would be to surround the structure and The person down and create as law- at the least amount of casualties as possible. then they re vice. Protocol especially in school incidences where some. Where there is unknown gun man and there are gun men now they will enter the building alma. Immediately.

And try to locate the perpetrator Y yeah like yours and this event changed all that, and I think One of the reasons is that It's possible that the teacher could have lived if there were a gap, oh yeah, paramedics and stuff in their sooner and then We are a bother. The other victims could have lived and so they end up anyway, the building. After one and then they sweep the whole building, they don't get to where the last spot. So they don't find Dave sanders. Who was one of the several heroes in this story but you had been shot They don't find him to about three or a little after three p m and unfortunately, he passes before he can receive any kind of official medical treatment. and then around three thirty or just after that's when a fish

find the bodies in the library and that's where Eric and Dylan are as well and during this time, it's that is when Eric's father aircars his father calls nine one one and he says to that, dispatcher that he believes his son may have been involved in the attack and. Here? She, the dispatcher, ask mister, years, why? He would? to his son was involved, and this is where this comes out. He said he says, because he's he's in a group, her he's a member of the trench, cope mafia. his father could have also found the the cassette tape that did Eric had left. In the kitchen by that point as well to to yea doesn't say over the phone call. Now that's another

one in the ground, zero documentary. You can actually hear that footage. Now and mother missus clear ball. She would later tell an author, that She believed her son was involved as well and when other parents were praying that their sons and daughters were ok that they did, they would get out of the school that they would be safe. She Praying that her son would die commit suicide because it would save more lives. Unfortunately, it is actually like when she heard about the event. Do you think she just why? Oh, my god, it's my son and Opie dies. Well again, she may have found some evidence at her home.

But still I don't know how much apparent when this hope that their child died but well, unfortunately there's a way too many victims in this story. There there's a lot of people lost their lives that day, there's a lot of student that were injured. There was a lot of allotted students, our paralyzed, and there is a lot of parents that lost their their children end looting Eric Harrison and delicately bolts. Parents as well. Yes, all our hearts and prayers go out to everybody involved in in this sad tragedy and in. anybody that's had to endure Any of the many other school shootings we who want to roll, Finally, thank you all for listening. and Remind you to go to true crime dot com check out Podcast there check out the store

We got the song downloads and email assure your voice yet mean here's. The simple thing to a couple, a couple things that are free, help the shell go to tunes, give us a review four stars forced nice by like five stars better. go to the website, and us an email. That's always nice goes store by a song that always that always helps out twitter handle to a twitter, at true crime garage, twitter now ass, a bug me they're, just that this a bunch of things I, if you enjoyed listening to show it takes time to do. if you enjoy listening and hating the show. That's fine to these are Don't say that you can do that, go a long way to help the show grow. once again, thanks for listening and he.

President obama, addressing us after another school shooting, there's been another mass shootings in america this time in a fairly college in order or more american families farms dad's children whose lives have been changed, grip amazing, In other communities, stunned with grief and communities across the country forced to relieve their own anguish and parents across the country who are scared because they know it might have been their families or their children, I've been to roseburg Oregon. There are really good people there want to. Thank.

the first responders whose bravery lively slave, saves lives. Today, federal law enforcement has been on the scene in a supporting role and we ve offered to stay and help as much as rose bird needs for as long as they do in the coming days will learn about the victims, young men and women who are studying and learning and working hard. There. I said on the future dreams on what they can make of their lives and america will rapid everyone whose grieving what our prayers but, as I said just a few months ago,.

I said a few months before that, and I said each time we see one of these mass shootings. Our thoughts and prayers are not enough. It's not enough. It does not capture the heartache and grief and anger that we should feel, and it does nothing to prevent this carnage from being inflicted some place else in america next week or a couple of months from now. We don't Know why this individual did what he did and it's fair to say that anybody.

does this has a sickness in their minds, regardless of what they think they're more patients may be where we are the only country on earth, but as people with mental illnesses or wanna, do harm to other people. We are the only advanced country on earth. Seize these guys mass shootings, every Once. Earlier this year I answered a question in their view by saying the united states of america is the one advanced nation on earth in which we do have sufficient common sense guns safety laws, even in the face of repeated mass killings and later that day

There was a mass shooting at a movie, theater lafayette, louisiana at day. somehow this has become routine. The reporting is routine. My response here at this podium ends up, Routine, the conversation in the aftermath of it we become known to this region- about this after columbine, flax borg, after tucson after new town, after all, after charleston, it cannot be easy, for somebody was then flagged harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun.

and was become routine, of course is the response of those who oppose any kind of its a scam legislation right now I can imagine the press release is being cranked up. We need more guts. Argue viewer gun safety laws. Does anybody really believe that. There are scores of responsible gun owners in this country. They know, that's not true. We know because of polling that says the majority of americans understand. We should be changing these laws, including the majority of responsible law abiding gun owners. The there is a gun for roughly every man, woman and child in america. So how can you with a straight face, make the argument that,

More guns will make a safer. We know that states with moscow I was gonna. Have the fewest That's so the notion that gun laws don't work or just we'll make it. However, for law abiding citizens and criminals will still get their guns not borne out by the evidence. We know that other countries in response to one mass shootings, have enabled a craft laws that almost alone A mass shootings friends of our allies are worse for written Australia. countries like ours, so we know there are ways to prevent it

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