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the Welcome to true gram garage wherever you are, what you are doing, thanks for listening, I'm your hosts, nick and with me. As always, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you captain. That's his arms So damn handsome, but don't blame me, blame my parents, it's good to be seen, and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend

This week we are featuring tangerine wheat by the good folks at lost coast, brewing garage rate for and a quarter bottle caps out of five. This is a very refreshing, citrus ale and tendering. We combines loss caused harvest. We would natural tangerine flavors. We add a couple of these last week, thanks to good friend of show and we are having a couple this week thanks to our friends here. First up, thank you to rachel kalamazoo Michigan, big shell, to see now farming, ten new mexico. This next one is from Jared who, at the time of his contribution to the beer, fun was writing from a deployed base in south west asia and from his wife, amy listening at home each week cheers you jared, and thank you for your service. Thanks to all the men and women who serve this break up a big. We like egypt, Sharon's

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recent years over four hundred and fifty thousand children were deported missing in the united states each year. children are taken by strangers. Slight acquaintances represents only one hundredth One per cent of all missing children, far more common our children who have run a wet garden lost or injured, have been, taken by a family member, usually in custody dispute, for they simply aren't where they are expected to be. Because of this communication, but still a very small percent of children reported missing, remain gone, professionals who deal with missing children cases are primary the police officers and local detectives trained.

locate, young people and bring them back our case this week, is that of Daniel David hohenstein or danny Danny was born october. Third, nineteen, eighty six on december fur, ninety ninety two danny living with his mother in Paradise, pines California, is reported missing. Was just six years old dismissing flyer scribes Danny as caucasian three foot, eight inches tall forty one pounds with a slender bill as blue eyes, and light brown hair at the time of his disappearance, danny with sporting, a buzz haircut danny was last seen playing with a dog near his home in the afternoon hours of December furs, his mouth.

jackie was inside preparing a meal for the boy when she to call him in. He was nowhere to be found, jackie search for the boy, but to no avail, after the boy was only gone for a short period of time. Jackie called the police and the search for danny began but ours turned into days and then weeks and months but still no one knew where the little boy was. The trail was going cold, There was no evidence, and little in the way of leads detective fern, couch work decay good is any season. Detective, could he muttered leslie logged in organised every bit of information collected from the search as well. things brought to light by interviews and tips coming into the department.

It was truly a mystery, fbi offered their assistance and the ongoing investigation in the public eye There are some common misconceptions about when the f b I can get involved in a mist, child case, either. There has to be evidence that a victim was taken across state lines. Or that a ransom demand has been made list heirs of the show know that that is not the case, as the bureau often offers their investigative of resources and technical assets to work here and in hand with state and local law enforcement agencies are cases involving the mysterious disappearance of a child and ninety ninety, three

three fbi special agent, Jeffrey rhine. It was paired with detective couch. His role was the help investigate the disappearance, recover the child and apprehend the person or persons responsible. Is the case of the missing boy, danny hohenstein, Over the years captain we have had several yes join us in the garage we had pod castors prosecutors, private investigators. This week we have a very special guess. Retired special agent from the fbi

free rhine it. He has been involved in many cases of missing children and many cases of crimes committed against children, and we ask him to join us in the garage this week to discuss the missing persons case of danny hohenstein, who went missing in nineteen ninety two while neck and jeff before we dive into the case Jeff. Could you tell us are listeners why you got involved in them yeah, I had a great question and I think about it and also why I was born with physical, birth defects are had a club left foot and the doctors also determined that I had cerebral palsy and firm first nine years of life. I was the kid that was picked on and beaten up separated from the other kids. I couldn't walk right and so my life, I wouldn't consider it to be a lot of fun.

At the same time, my parents were taking me to all these doctors. and I originally thought they were doing this because they wanted me to be right. I think they did, but I've learned in later life in a big part, because my judge up with my wife lorry that my parents are somewhat embarrassed or are sad because I look so different. I had a club foot, I walked funny and I think it about them as much as it was an inconvenience to me, at nine years of age, heads experimental surgery that work and caused me to work walk fairly normally and as I continued growing in developing after that surgery. I was able the wine and do things do a lot of as they do everything normally It was something that was behind the left. Over effect on me was there

was very angry because of my first nine years of being beaten up and picked on and so I was somewhat volatile, somewhat violent. It didn't take much to get me to go over the edge. I went through life my parents expecting me to go to college and we decided that I would go to law school. I went You tell Cheltenham high school graduated. Then I went to operate. College in reading pennsylvania graduate it? There Then realized it, I didn't have enough money to go to law school, so I ended up. I just you know, I was floating around. I always wanted to be an fbi agent, because my dad had been an undertaker and door. The funerals there was this high ranking organ crime guy and us fascinated by these guys. They were walking round taken lightly, in place now that in

that early age, my dream was to be an fbi agent, which I never really thought was not possible for me after I was if without direction after I graduated college, I needed to find something so start applying to all these law enforcement jobs, including the ear secret service and then I applaud. The fbi, and they responded to me in me aware of a position where I would be was called the clerk. I went down for my interview, and they said that if I get three years as clerk, then I'd be eligible to apply for agents class, and for me that was totally unexpected and that gave me direction. So I went to work for the fbi's. Pork. I had an advantage because I had a college degree and you had to have a college degree. the f agent, so I went to work, doing

in your things- are used to make the clerk badges and then I did screening in the exhibit section of the fbi at six months after here the f b. I stop that programme with the clerks and did not grant father. Anybody- and I was once again in a dead end position, your chances of getting into the fbi- were made possible through this programme. They cancel the programme. Now. What gonna. Do I decided I went back to school at night full time to gain the equivalent of an accounting degree. Because that would enable me to apply to the fbi as an agent as an accountant and for the next fifty two way That's what I did. I also had started running because it made me feel like

run. Normally, I enjoy It is a good thing and it made me she good. So I kept running, and so I had this life, working as a clerk at the fbi and run every night and going through to get my undergraduate equivalent degree of accounting, and I completed it and sure enough I was able to get into the fbi. My new agents class was, in twenty six of nineteen seventy eight and that's how I started last- pretty cool not quitting the clerk things. Are you still workin for that? but you're running every night you're going to school you gonna, find a way to make this dream a reality and at some point Jeff you get involved in a unit. The specializes investigating crimes involving children. Can you take us through that process? Shore Nicky the work I did with crimes against children did

start until I had about fifteen in twelve years, my first office, which chicago cargo and in Chicago I worked violent crime counting- and I was put on a what they call a title three, which is telephone surveillance. Everybody has seen the movie casino, and I was one of the fbi agents. Listening to the your phones on that on the telephone surveillance, with new agents. We were very much worthless. So they would say stuff like that. That would help us get acclimated to the job a short time after my dad was diagnosed with lung cancer in philadelphia and I has to go back to the new york office to be with him during its final years of life, and that's where I met my wife lorry we ended, starting our own family, and I know this like a long lead and, but I think you'll understand in a short while

Lauren I restarted having family and our first son Joe, was born, and when he three and a half years old. We had our second son, jordan for the weak or Jordan, was born Joe, use having a really bad cold, and when we took jordan for his well baby visit, we asked the doktor delicate joe and learn I'll. Never forget that the doktor came in with this ashen sullen look on his face and he told us that job oh, had a plus four. protein spill in his urine add that it was very serious and then he made clear to us that this is going to be a very difficult thing for us. The now few years we spent dealing with Joe who was diagnosed with pediatric the friday syndrome,

this, is where this is kind of the fao. we have time for both lorry and I because with our sign and the prospect that he might. survive in the hardship and dealing with the symptoms. Laurie add more emotional strength it I did. She dealt with a lot better night, it shortly after we arrived in Sacramento, there was adoption of the seven month old baby named frankie, procter and I was assigned to it and it was like in it body experience from use. Nothing like I had. first sperience before in the terms of the drive passion and then I got. I worked with a detective attack. Monopolies, I great Stuart who great detective and an I was able to partner up with him, and so I learned a lot from working with him and I

so experience something was very unique in that I didn't the home might just kept going, and for days later, gregg and I am a few tactical guys broke into an apartment and we rescued little frankie proctor. The fbi being a bureaucracy. It is like every other bureaucracy They started assigning me all of these cases tell my work in the country his children began to have to worry about the long answers we hear. We appreciate the details were just lucky that you're talking to the two slumps in the entrance. Well, let's dive into this week's case because at some point you are asked to take a look into a missing persons case, and this is six year old, Daniel David hohenstein, better known as danny, and by the time you got involved. This was considered a cold yeah I this is some thank you for asking that

during this time it was in the early nineties, nineties. The fbi had a new director. His name was louis free. Louis fray was a strong in his belief the resources of the f b I could help in investigating missing abducted children and as well, of that everything obviously FBI was ordered to goes through their closed cases and any close case that had a child, though not recovered, we were supposed review it and, to see if there was anything that we give you it's to train and bring it back to try and find the child. It's a pretty awesome initiative by the fbi. I rejoice The case on Danny hohenstein who had disappeared and november, the end of november of nineteen. I think it was ninety ninety one or two

you know it's been so long now. My note see the danny disappeared december. First, nineteen. Ninety two ok december: first, that that's right and I looked at that case. Another now we're in the end of nineteen, three. You were a year later and A review of the case danny had disappeared. There was, no sign of him anywhere it was if he simply vaporized and cease to exist, and- and this really bothered me because that doesn't happen- I read the file. I saw that the butte county sheriff, had a very, very good. search and rescue team and the detective was working at his name was very couch, and I can tell that Verne had a problem with danny disappearing as well the search and rescue folks and the managers believed there

danny, had wandered into a very rugged canyon near his home. And he met his end, either being lost the canyon or being attacked by a predatory animal in the way As I look at you search and rescue reports there, no evidence of him any evidence of him at all ever being into the canyon. There was nothing and it was too much for me there child who disappear in appeared. twenty minutes and not exist, and I could tell it the detective Verne felt that way. My supervisor was a guy named on peers and dine, an amazing person he had tell him where he could recognize what people were good

Everybody on our squire was engaged to think there were excelling at net goes down, could recognise these things. He was really was intuitive. I told them didn't think they're just bothered me. The danny had disappeared and nothing existed so he arranged for verne, couch and verne supervisor to come down and and burn supervisor. Dames perry ran up, who later became the candy sheriff they came down, cspi office and we sat there reviewing the case, I said at the risk of looking like an idiot. I said you know something's wrong because a boy, like this doesn't just disappear to the point where search and rescue can't find any evidence of an ever existing and Verne agreed with me and that's the way he had felt so dont pierce, my supervising perry, Rana fern supervisor gave

permission to real this case and start looking at it in that became this. unbelievable marathon, four vernon. I looking to find out what happened to dance in a way when you review these files. In your thinking about these things, you're almost and put back in time, and you realize it the better investigators documented what they had done, the further back you can go, and the intensity of actually feeling like you're there. That way, real lesson to me in my paper, work was usually not very good, but because of that and from learning from fern. I start trying to do much paper in my own paper, because I knew that it could mean the difference between having hope we're losing hope in a case like this Jeff tell us a little bit about danny's, homelike Annie lived in a small.

Town named miguel, you regalia a very rural. Area. It's just east and north of a town called Paradise. Your listeners lively interest you know that paradise in the were two towns that were completely burned to the ground in the camp fire from last summer, answer exists there any more, but danny grew up in miguel, or he lived in Amygdala miguel, you didn't live there, they didn't grow after his mom was an alcoholic, and so her life circulated around alcohol. And because of that, she wasn't the most responsible parent she could have been and danny was frequently for it to be in the neighborhood unsupervised. There was one incident that really,

got to me emotionally, where Neighbor who was interviewed described that on a cold, snowing morning again. He was at her door by her kitchen. Asking to be led. and then he was in his pajamas. He didn't have any outer garment sought and she Five, how she brought a man and fed him breakfast and there were other incidents- is that, where light that there was some teachers in his kindergarten class reported it danny would fall asleep early the day and they determine that is mom feeding, him ice cream and he didn't have very nutritional diet. His teeth word deteriorated because again, his diet was so bad, so danny was child. Who was neglected, that's pretty one of the reasons

Vernon, I wouldn't want to things it ate at ass was because you know here any goes missing in because he's neglected in the first place. No one really: are they easily give up, looking form, answer that that was eating edison one other thing, I'm really proud of that was happening during his time. Is it vernon? I were developing a very close friendship with each other, and burn was a guy who didn't really have great feelings about the f b I so this partner ship was super. Developing was for a lot of fun and he really took advance actually in terms of I was a street guy and he didn't know anything about the country. So he had dummies crazy stories that I would believe that were not true. Just to get me, can you describe the man that they partnered you with, for this case detective verne, couch vern? Why

Is about six foot five, he wears You think of John wayne in one of his westerns. That's burn, couch he mass of you, his hands dwarf my hands. He had a deep voice and he was in no nonsense. Guy quivering when I start work when the marshal intimidated, because I wouldn't want to be on his bedside and as we got to be better friends it just so, I felt a lot safer people people have the misconception that police or shares in rural areas. Aren't that good verne had kept this unbelief. full documentation of the case, he had volumes of

loosely finders that were organised in all different ways, and you could give him a date and time and he'd, be able to look back in his records and find out what happened. Then he was Absolutely amazing. If you had the chance to be brought back to life hundreds of years in the future, would you take it wonderings newest podcast frozen head hosting Ashen alina of the hit show morbid tells the truth. We have lawrence pilgrim, a lifelong scientist who plan for death his entire life because for him death wasn't the end. It was just the beginning florence is dream to be frozen and brought back to life in the future. Pulls us into a cryonics soap. Opera filled with dead pets, grenades, family feuds hall, in baseball, legends and frozen heads, lots of frozen heads

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where prohibited by law. Eighteen plus terms and conditions apply, see website for details, alright fears mates, cheers to you, captain special agent reineke. Could you take us through the known events of the day of December first nineteen? Ninety two yeah the day danny goes missing. Yes, and I'd like to Tell you that this is when you talk about working called cases, the events and the day that your victim, as last seen they become in printed. In your mind in your heart and your soul, because it's the starting point of where you begin and they end

had you try very hard to cause one to overlap with the other. So you get some type of idea of what could have happened. And so in danny's case that day was a call god rainy chile day There was a house being built near, were dancing lived and beyond. she was always out about. He would is hang over watching the house be bill, therewith, a dog in the neighborhood. There was always a danny side and the dogs owner was, jail. So the dog like danny, had no place to go so the two of them found each other and hung out together. and danny hung around there for the day and about, the clock or so the work and we're getting ready to go home and the

supervisor told danny to go home and any actually told them. You know you gotta, get it a code on a jacket, so danny went home and guy a code. His mother remembered him coming in and getting his jacket I'm running out again and the supervisor said the danny came back with his cold on and then these geyser pack up getting ready to go a short time later, Danny's mom went looking form and couldn't find him, this is what we know about danny's last. he was hanging out in the where the house is being built. He had a dog get his side. He interacted with the carbon there's that were building their house, and so this were you start As is you not only try and get an idea of the logistics and goings in coming

but you also get an idea of what the any was like, because these guys are telling you what your impression is at the same time, you're getting impressions of these guys and that's all only gives you the ability to start building this mental picture of what that day was like Well, Danny's mom was as we said in alcoholic and were many times reported when would be asleep during the day, probably recovering from the previous night on one occasion before this. She got actually misplaced danny. She had left danny with a friend and for I knew she left him with and couldn't find him. So, of course she he met with a lot of negative criticism. because you know she wasn't really being mindful of her child by it was also important to consider that if she could have lost her child for three days that time,

How do we know she didn't? Do some This type. How do we know she wasn't pulling out of the garage and maybe hit him while he was standing behind all these factors come into play as possibilities but what really got to vernon I was that here you have the mom who had lost him for three days and she never call police and now danny was missing for fifty minutes and she call police so the question, because why she so diligent this time, and this is an exam couple of where you start, you have to find a reason, there's something going on there and because her son was missing. She, He became very health. and tried very hard to the best of our ability to help us find her son. And what we learned is that on that day, danny was supposed to though, over that even to be with his father,

His mother was gonna have the evening to herself to go out and do what she did mindful of the she went couldn't find danny. She was concerned not because you can find any, but because she was gonna go out and she knew and go out until she had danny accounted for over his dad's at the way the logistics worked out. That day is that she was gonna feed danny before she took him over to his dad. So she could hear a pile of macaroni. Cheese, show she remembered danny coming in to get his jacket ass. She was starting the pot of of macaroni cheese and when she finished cocking it that's why started looking for him a time of approximately twenty minutes and couldn't find em. So whatever happened, danny happened in that twenty minutes.

then she started looking form him and spend another half hour looking form, and then she called the police. You called the view can assure department- and Verne responded with a department and they began what they do so well would just search and rescue and looking for danny- and this is where we get to the point where there is never any, trace of him, including his clothing, his shoes, his possessions, anything that ever seen from him again. The dog is located in the neighbour running around by itself. But danny is gone. and this is what we had to work with right, so we don't have any evidence suggesting where you danny went, but do we have any other kind of evidence another thing that we had as we talked about how danny was neglected because of

His condition of his hygiene danny had contracted a infestation, what they call scale beasts which I think are like their lights at this scale. Bees are like these bugs that my you which, like bedbugs, if you will and because of the scale bees idea, these mom had to do a complete, king of the house, doing all wander that was located in the house, and you also had had danny's head shaved, because this gave him I guess living the here. I don't know much about it, but I remember gave it was a big issue and when we were looking for danny, his hair was the crooked, and there were some strange steps that were coming into the police department. Regarding the disappearance of the small boy. Do you recall all any of those european learning. I we cited. The way which is

was mom very thoroughly interview. His sister, shannon and his brother Brandon and we would slowly take everything we could extract from them and we would verify and run out each specific thing and came to danny's mom, the crowd she hung with wasn't the best so we started looking through her friends and, one guy. In particular, we we determine from Jackie's friends that this guy was very sexually active. the very sexually aggressive and while there nothing to indicate he preferred children. We many give him a good look and we

He eventually found him. He was down in the area and we arranged for a polygraph, rare from the los angeles division and virtue wiser perry in mind, an arranged for bert vernon I'd get the funding, so he could go to allay. and have him how this guy polygraph this is where as new investigators? You start learning, Ups and downs of work in these poor cases vernon. I got ourselves worked up thinking. This guy could be a good contender, and so we had a lot of expectations and hopes when we drove down to allay and bigger, for we had was gunning jack to Marco, really really good guy. Who got some here downright was was well known and thought of, and

We got a guy and had him do a paragraph with jack. We told jack that we thought he would be a big contender because of his behaviour incidents that had been described that associated with them was inappropriate at sexual. Forwarding with women things like tat and Vernon I what happens with paragraph is it takes several hours vernon. I waited a lobby area while Jack had taken this suspect into at one of the motel rooms way and in paragraph and burn, and I are sitting out there and shortly after a few hours, the guy comes out, and he sullen and his eyes are on the ground and he is really shaken up. So, of course, vernon. I really excited thinking on this could be it.

Jack came out a short time after him, and we said you know like how to go when he goes? It's not him. we got ourselves so wound up thinking. It would be him it. It took some time for it to settle in that it wasn't him, but jack said even though the guy past is pie he thought he would interrogate them anyway and their results is this guy coming out of the room the way he was jacket really going after him, and I got it. it makes me proud to be an fbi agent to know that the guys you work with her so good, and so The kid and passionate that just because talking about the war about it. Missing six year old boy. Now jack was not going to this go until he himself was content when you let the guy out, he was pretty convinced the guy had nothing to do with it. so Berne and I thanked him, but we had to get

because the guy literally walked out kept walking in we were losing on and we wanted to just touch pace with him and we ve album, a couple miles away from the hotel and we offer them a ride home and that he was crying which used are arrived home, because he was so upset and shaken up I the interrogation and that's it example of how you can get your hopes up as investigator and then come shutting down. Why? It's not what you think and as you work here, cases nick. What happens is put so much of yourself into each lead- and things start working on that, when the lead force through it not only comes as a shot and disappear men, but it kind of sharp your energy for a day or two. We talk a little bit about jackie

danny's mother and her lifestyle in danny's home life. When you start looking into this cold case, was reason to have suspicion regarding Jackie. Yes, this is really a special time for me before I had even met jackie from me in the files and real, using the life that Danny had. I is already angry at her bear in mind that I hide myself a sick. you're, a boy, shame ages, danny who, I'm going through the after effects of a disease that threatened him, I, as almost took him from us laurie had handled it with more emotional strength that I did and so here is a mom. I'm talking to that's got a boy whose healthy and she neglected, so before even met Jackie. I was prejudice,

he'll towards her. I was angry, so I went with verne We want to jack his house and the door opened and Jim he came out and she and burn gave this, huge hub and I felt myself you're a little upset with vernon like. Why are you? How can this woman, after what you ve done she was also considered by many to be a suspect, I believe that, because of their, a name state she may have done so Think again, he accidentally am and caused him to. to die or whatever and then got rid of em. So there was allotted suspicion and I didn't see no reason that she should not. Consider consider that light, but burn did I think she had anything to do with it I learned a huge lesson from that day. I learn

that when you treat people with respect- and you don't judge them- they become a lot more truthful, honest and reflect trying to help you figure out what's going on, because We shall do that day. It was cleared The Jackie knew that she was part of the problem there she knew she had failed. Danny's welfare. she knew that this probably my what have happened if she had been a more hands on mother, and It was very hard to maintain that level of anger that I felt before a matter see her this way I also saw that the burden was just so amazing with her that I believed. strongly that Jackie not only had not been in involved, but wise

being treated with such a cavalier like, oh, she did it and he's gone and we're never gonna find em. from being was for. There idea I was like we need to. We need to go through Jackie and either find out ass. She did this force or stop prioritizing her So we arrange for Jackie to come down to the fbi office in sacramento, and she was tired after sacramento and was a female point refer who I worked with, was really good, really lighter and she came out of the polish and said that jackie I'm had passed her polygraph that one of the problems with the previous polygraph is that the progress were done in such a way as to cause her too. become emotional and that threw off the results, and this might be.

The time for your letters to understand how paragraph worked because a polygraph measures physical function, theirs, it measures your pulse. It measures your blue, pressure. It measures your heart beat also measures the conductivity of your skin. So, if starts waiting, for instance, that conductivity goes up and all these things together, I then go through algorithm and gives a pulling refer, an idea of the weather. The person is is speaking truthfully or not. but consider listening never met a victim parent. His child is gone missing that passed pie graph. They all fail because they offer responsible further. appearance. They all feel that they left their child down, and so they all feel

there. The reason the charles missing and the polygraph indicate to their shows them as as fair, When, in reality blaming themselves. So he always had to say into consideration the total environment all all of the facets of what you're dealing with I hate to say it, but I did see in one instance, ay a father pass a polygraph and what I realized in time about that father was that he really about his job being missing so of the emotional aspects. It would have caused the polygraph to show its its results weren't there, because really didn't care. A person who doesn't have a motion here likely or he or she is more likely to pass a paragraph, because the pilot

It is based on our ability to feel and have emotion and react, and this and of course, the flowers is it if you tell a lie, if you mislead, that's that reacted that you're gonna. U you're doing something wrong in your body react physically to what you're and is doing mentally right enduring this. In our view, in processing and sifting through this information, there are other leads that are common in. yet I believe there was one if I recall correctly, the involved a victim of molestation. They indicated that possibly their father could have been involved in the disappearance of danny. Yes, that's amazing. You know I am a member about now in the book when you're, looking we're missing child natural believe is, However, take the child or killed the child

was doing more than just the child that there was a sexual mode of we got a tip and from a guy who believed that his father could be a suspect and I dont remember exactly now, but I remember that he was able to give us enough supporting information that we work able to put the sky in close proximity to danny and possibly he could you know? Maybe he needs to be looked at further. He turned out to have an alibi that that didn't, you know the caused him to be cleared. But the thing I remember the most about that Lee, which really stage May even now is that this man described to me that as a boy

he would try and stay up all night long in the hallway to keep his father. from going in an assault his sister, and he felt sponsible that he couldn't do that air left a seed in me. of the realisation of how This is the family members not only the victims, families, and that when Something happened to another person many times victims of similar, and victims families of similar crimes? Will we experience what, what they did in at all. It will re affect them, and I've always

take him with me since for all of our old episodes, download the stitched up their free exclusively on this too drab also check out our bonus show are weekly, show off the record on stiffer premium this week were talking about the documentary. The hbo die

inventory of adnan siad. Alright, we will see everybody back here in the garage tomorrow until then be good behind it and don't live. you can go accompanying. Continental is the smart choice in taxes and a heavy with streams, anything further guy who finds that one potholes they need the chilean engineer, yeah really really really continental available with count tyre.