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the. Welcome to true gram garage wherever you are whatever you are doing, thanks for saying I'm your host nick and with me this week is my vote. special guest aaron from the generation. Why podcast annex to be on your show. Thank you for joining us. I thought since you are our guests this week- that it would be appropriate to ask you if you have a beer that you would like to choose:

for the beer of the week this week, absolutely my favorite beer, hands down. If someone said, you'll get free beer for a year, but you can only drink this beer. They would be they shoot. Obsidian stout about a girl great, it would be fine caps out of five easily well, they shoot brewery disk lives there. Obsidian stout, like this deep robe, last and richly rewarding. This is beer to linger. Over obsidian has distinct notes of espresso chocolate, roasted mall black barley with just enough hop by to cut the sweetness now. For me, the reason like. It is because it's not too happy it's very dark at sea through it and it's perfectly balanced between the chocolate and the malt and the espresso, so it's the kind of here that I can linger over as they say, or I can just get regular. I can just I can down a couple, pretty quick, so seems like a beer that fits pretty much any occasion for

you aaron in this week's beer is brought to us by all of you good listeners out their first up. We have Amy from columbus next a shot two valerie l from Milwaukee wisconsin and we jessica, and her friend mallory, forza young, in Portland Oregon annulled But not least, we have robin and kirkwood Missouri. So thanks everybody for going to true prime garage dot com and helping out with this week's beer fun. If you want to help us what next week show go to true grand garage, dot, com and click on the donation, and then so now for the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer. Let's talk some true cry: the the the

randy endeavour, sandstorm lived together for about twenty years at their home on south river road two miles out in the country b on the delaware county, fair grouse and walton new york were it is a small town population a little over three thousand people never was. On january, fourth, nineteen sixty five- she and her siblings grew up and Walton, and she graduated from high school there and nineteen. Eighty four randy was from roscoe is one of three children of farmers. Randy Joe in the army and nineteen eighty one after high school and served two years afterward. He up. It is small engine repair shop. The sauce rooms did not have children together, but before they got together back eighteen, eighty, nine randy, a child with his girlfriend at the time his daughters, is many randy, his girlfriend the child's

their didn't stay together and julie, randy left when his daughter was just about two years old moving. Thirty miles away now, fail to maintain a relationship with his daughter. He would send hard money and sometimes a gift for birthdays christmas, but he did see his daughter after he left. A mini has talked about this sense, saying that she thought maybe well he's from she heard is that Randy's wife, Deborah was jealous, and didn't want him to have a relationship with his daughter, because that would take away from their relationship yeah when she stated that and now she's in her late twenties, but she said that quotas wasn't around I'm sorry. He was only around until she was about to, and that seems to be when he met Deborah and then move to walden and she says. I didn't see him again after that, that she didn't really know him at all

So all of this takes place. Seemingly when Randy endeavour me or fall in love or have you now. we do already know that they went on to be married and have a long relationship Deborah, for years with aid, delaware, county, social welfare agency, later she began working as a grocery store, cashier randy, for many years at the warehouse for dragons home furnishings. And then for some time at scott machine corporation and engraving, firm and walton the sandstorms had an interesting hobby, randy being son of farmers. Why not right? There some time in the late nineteenth they started growing, pumpkins and They wanted to learn how to grow the biggest pa hence it may be any one in the great state of new york has ever seen ran

was the founding president of the new york state giant pumpkin grew where's association, and in ninety ninety nine randy endeavour, set a goal to break the state record for the largest pumpkin. I guess in two thousand eight they grow pumped pumpkin. That way, almost fifteen hundred pounds gather their these pumpkins. and you can't just go by seeds at a store from what I understand, you have to get the right seeds and the type of, pumpkins their growing, our deals atlantic giant. They were true to grow. These giant bumpkins thou two thousand eight fifteen hundred pounds huge right, but to give you some effective. Nowadays there are twenty six hundred pounds so these, pumpkins are not yoke and they start as a little pot has. We call it in your kitchen basically, and then they end up. outside and you have to grow them a certain way. It takes a lot of care out of patience and of course later you need

crane, basically to move these things they were even in a documentary from two thousand entitled the lords of the gorge? Also in their garden, they they tended to pumpkins, does of tomato plants and other standard vegetables, as well as blueberries and grapes. They didn't hang out at bars, they didn't go to church, they farmed and they grew big fat giant. Pumpkins, simple life, simple. all right, nothing out of the ordinary, except for the poor, sad decision randy, may to not be a real father to a little girl, but we want talking about the story on a show like the garage or on a show like generation. Why? If it were just that simple, would we so in two thousand and ten early randy, did his whole houdini trick once again, currently leaving Deborah high and dry now Deborah told

friends and neighbors that randy had run off. Randy had someone else in that new love interest got pregnant. Deborah said, Randy took I have to start a new life and, according to Deborah, the sandstorms had been hiding a secret for years. The family secrets is randy was an abusive man. Endeavour was we're still live and abusive relationship for years after randy was gone, Deborah, told friends and neighbours that they did no, the real randy. She told a story of a late night fight when randy came very late one night and because Deborah was set with randy for being also late. She after him out of the house, so randy tried to break into the house and this off mentally led to a physical altercation in which randy hit Deborah and then Deborah hit randy. Now this is story, someone reported that they had heard as best as I can tell

it seems like a deviation from the well that when new mania He talked about how they didn't go two bars dating going Road trips, they were gardeners, gardening was their life. I may went beyond a hobby he came their life. Yet Deborah went on to say that her ticket, this abuse of relationship was when randy, fair, for another woman and then took off with Randy gone. Deborah can too you to work and live at the couples home she continued gardening and walking their dog. She would often four dog with the next door neighbor, it became kind routine for the two of you to talk and sometimes Deborah, to share stories about randy about a year after randy was gone. Deborah got a job as a cashier at the big am supermarket and Walton,

owner said, the Deborah was a hard worker and was a customer, favorite she'd been king began supermarket for about two years, I believe, when, in february of two thousand and thirteen, she was accused of stealing a pocket book that a customer had left at the store, apparently Deborah, kept the pocket book, and when confronted about the missing pocket book, she lied, saying she didn't know where it could be. But the story Video surveillance footage told a much different story. The pocket book was in fact endeavors possession if the store decided the best thing to do, was to press charges and Debra was charged with larceny yeah. It's a it's a theft and it cost her her job. and then she was charged I've counts of larceny in the fourth degree, and basically This is because she took a pocket book,

is verified on video and the amount that she stole was in excess of a thousand dollars. Ellie the value of the pocket book so charge with this five counts. You said, for unknown reasons. Deborah so If decides to not appear in court, she failed to appear in court and what happens when you don't show up to court? Well, a bench war is issued there are going to go and deliver the warrant and make you go to court, so the war was type. up and now it's time to deliver said warrant enforcers learn that Deborah was spending a lot of time at a sum of some have called a vacation, home or second home that was owned by the Bosco family Deborah was involved in a relationship with Dominic Vasco. So

that's where law enforcement is going to go once they don't find Deborah at her home. They don't just send it couple of officers they send the wanton police chief brian, Wowzer and where county sheriff office senior investigator Carl bots junior sounds like pretty many important law enforcement personnel showing up to serve this warrant, their son. the brass. So this is it Two p m on February nineteenth two thousand and thirteen As you said, air and we have the wanton police chief, we have ranking investigator from the sheriff's office, you're going to serve this warrant at to ninety four or John locke. Would road Deborah Sunstroke answered the door when they knocked the officers informed her she was being arrested now Deborah answer

the door wearing a night shirt. She asked if the officers could possibly weight. The stoop just outside the front door so that she could get dressed before they arrest her now this is a small town, as we mention one of the officers new debt, and apparently had known her for year. So he is to allow her request. So there, and to give her a moment to change out of her night close now, debars shut, the door and within a minute things change drastically I'll say they here couple of gunshots, which of course, since the up There were there to serve this bench warrant for failure to show up in court on these charges now they're going to break Do the door and investigate and that's that's a pretty kay move and it just hard to imagine they they knew woman, she had a good reputation and they just

ever could but magic that gunshots would have rang out from the house situation you're, one of the hall sir reported hearing to gunshots within approximately one minute of Deborah closing the door, police chief wowzer is the one who went upstairs and discovered two bodies, one of Deborah on stream and the other was her of dog and austrian shepherd named shadow both have been shot to death with a weapon that was found very close by thirty thirty for the other officer notice that the house was on fire and yells to the chief to get out, they managed to escape the fire, but they want helplessly as the house burned. apparently leaving only though wraparound deck and a fireplace chimney near the front door firefox. Saved a detached garage now

We must have acted very fast after the door. Closed later police said Deborah set the house ablaze. Then she shot and killed her shadow with one shot from it, thirty thirty rifle and then with a sigh shot she shot and killed herself now the fire was out and the smoke cleared. Investigators have to go into the house and recover the woman's body, and this is when they get another surprise headache they really tried to preserve this scene. They had fire fighters from both wolden and dally coming by to try and put this fire out and just weren't able to put it out in time. In fact, the call from the officers went out soon after that two p m time that they reported to the house. So even with quick action, you can't always save a scene and die with, thing burned down like that. Now they have to see what they can recover.

it is also been said that she may have set the fire soon ass. She knew that they were there. I before she opened the door. Yeah. This is a situation where you really feel like sheep. She, had to believe that they would come for her at some point and it It almost seems to me like too much has to done in too little of a man the time this. mothers had due to been put into action before they even knocked on the door- and we know that either the gunshots took place until after they had already spoke to her so if the wonder how much was already set in motion before she ends up taking life and win, was the decision made by her that that was going to be the result. Should they come for her, I think, will able to answer that better after we cover more the story. Of course it it's somewhat

population. But there may be some clues, as to why she day which he did so, what in the house did they find when they were in their looking through the rebels, to protect the scene they spent. More than a couple of days, just going through this house because it was mostly burnt down now. They're just said through everything essentially, but they ended up finding the unidentified. an unidentified man in what was the basement of the home and he was so He waited where you could say stare the stairs had gone down from the upper floor today, They didn't know who this man was and because Deborah at from all appearances, seem to have committed arson shattered and then shot herself. This is really out of key. Doktor, at least as far as anybody knew about her so

other wondering who was the man? Could it be Dominic bosco after all, it was his family's home or it might so be that of brandy, sunset because heck Maybe she was lying that whole time yeah in all currently it turns out to be the body of Dominic pasko and its Leave that she, if she will end act was the one that killed him. It's believe that here one two three days before Deborah killed herself its kind mystery, but on the other hand there just going by the last time anyone had heard from him and they It involves some speculation, he did die and then

Of course, his body was in a home that burnt down, so it could be very difficult to get the answers that the investigators require, but before they even identified whose body it was they found something else interesting, because over the course of several days they were urging this bosco house, but they were also starting the search devereuxs own home and there is a state police investigator who used to cadaver or to search around her home and the dog alerted to a sealed. Fifty five gallon drum outside the house and when the end, skater remove the lid he found, the mouldering remains of a body, so at that point they had to mysterious bodies I think all they knew at that point at that time was that they were both men. That's it yeah, and I think this is pretty simple here, just the search itself. You know

Is there going to be tasked with trying to find randy? Sunstroke? Being that I mean technically, he and ro, but still be legally married at this time. So there be looking for him. I dont know what kind of hunch police were working with, but it doesn't take. Albert einstein to figure out hey weave she killed herself, while in the some of us trying to serve a warrant. She kills or dog sets a house on fire find an unidentified body that turns out to be that of Dominic boss, her her known to be boyfriend at the time is now. really a leap here for them to go out and get the proper search warrant for her home and and to bring a current cadaver sniffing dog to the house with them and, like you said, the dog hits almost immediately.

leading the handler too, that fifty five gallon drop moulder, which is what mouldering comes from, is slowly to kay or disintegrate, especially because of neglect going. Of their statement. His body may have just been folded up, and based on that barrel, basically just there doesn't seem like she has applied anything to try to speak the process or or diminish the the oder, or anything like that. I so he's found and a fifty five gallon barrel. This is located behind the couples garage and keep him and he's been missing for like over one thousand days at this time and in then ultimately-

body was hiding in plain sight, just twenty five to thirty paces from the back door of the sunstroke. All your neighbour Where did that? He mode belong right next to that drum many many times, and he had no idea but that see that's the thing is no one expected anything like this to happen with Deborah. And so I think that's why they wanted a search her home, because they were thinking Why would she shoot her dog and herself over this bench warrant because sure of law enforcement visiting her home to arrest you it wasn't as if they were going to arrest her for a murder. This was for the theft of a pocket book for a wallet so it just didn't make sense. So that's when they're in sense says: there's something What's going on here, yeah endeavours, Instrum is really only suspect in her husband's death, and

The thing here too, as we have Deborah who she'd sugar, away with murder for like three years, and this is based- they just because no one reported randy as missing his parents, it passed away by this point and he was not in contact with his two siblings, both of whom lived lived at estate his few close friends believed debt. Story about him of leaving her and One of his friends is on record saying: look. Just thought. Maybe he was embarrassed about taking off and that he would event will reach out to me at some point, but he now did and then it's only an iron site. There is for- the saying wow that much time passed in he never reached out to me I should have, I should have thought that something was wrong here.

I should have, but I think we need to give more credit to the fact that Deborah had one people over. Not for any kind of tv. reasons or anything. It's is. They were together for twenty years over that time? People got to nowhere and they really liked her. She was very personal, and so why wouldn t be telling the truth but you know how often say when someone goes missing and the the person that may have known what happened is saying or are they just ran off, but then that person never contacts anyone else, anyone else. I find it really really questionable, but then again Deborah was possible and people liked her and we know He'd already left his own daughter behind before so why not his wife? Yet I think they're probably, would have added a lot of vat. A to any sceptics out there that she was

Deborah was in fact telling the truth that he had done this before. And I would imagine the people closer to him, the ones it would be concerned of his whereabouts would be aware the story. So it's not like it's like this, isn't something that he would not be capable of, because he and acted the very same thing. Just at a much younger age, nay said She got away with murder for three years: doktor james turgeon, that pathologist conducted the autopsies on then the two unidentified bodies he identified them where'd. You talked about that, but fur Dominic Bosco he's he couldn't figure out his manner or cause of death, so both were listed as under

so Dominic Bosco. He is listed as cause of death, undetermined manner of death, be it homicide, accident natural causes, undetermined on determined. And then that I guess you could say when we get to randy sons, trim, the manner of death was homicide, but the cause was undetermined. Now to me this is interesting because he sang he believes that and he was as a result. a homicide. I dont know. If that's because of the from that he was found in, but don't really have any real clues as to how he was. What what I've seen from seven The cases that weave covered is is this exact situation where The concealment of the body is leading him to

the determination of a homicide where boss go, you could make it Are you meant that where he was found at the what would have been the foot the stairs to the basement could have possibly he could have fallen. He could have heart attack and just fell there in the placement of that body. Is Is such a manner where he could have just he could have just died where he fell where we know in randy situation the the the probability of him being in that barrel when died of natural causes is so incredibly mathematically m near impossible, that that is there were getting. The determination of of amr It is well it big, I would be is to see what else was in the barrel with him or if they,

was even more evidence to push the path knowledge. Is that determination? Yes- and I know that before we recorded, we actually had a discussion about whether be any follow up, and I know that these pathologists are kind of stretched, then to begin with, and if I guess for the sake of argument, if Deborah was responsible for these deaths, then, with her death. Who are you going to prosecute? I mean why spend the money or the time, why do the follow up? If you really can't take this case any where think about it? This way, no one called on behalf of randy the whole time he was missing, no one, not one person called any law enforcement department to say randy sons trim, is missing and I want to file report about it. No one did that

so obviously there's probably not a lot of voices, is ringing out saying do something about this figure out how he died as far as domino bosco his parents. They didn't really want to talk about and I'm not sure why, but it could be that they did. Didn't see this coming. I think maybe they're loss for words his family. I believe they were out of or of towners, and that was kind of their lakes can homer retreat type of home where he was here staying apparently, he was really into thou doors, and in enjoy staying in this, one description. They called it a cabin, but I don't know that I would call it a cabin but that's where we have this difficult situation. So we would we have what, we see to be technically unsolved

at least one unsolved homicide as far as the rolling goes, but are these in fact closed cases? where they believe everything points to Deborah as being the murderer both Dominic an randy, She's no longer with us died by our own hand in that manner. Are these cases no longer opened and closed, but technically still unsolved. The the If you have it It needs to be brought back to life hundreds of years in the future. Would you take it wonderings newest podcast, frozen head hosting ashen alina of the hit show morbid tells the truth

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Well, it's one thing to know who committed the murders and I think the point these snow, at least in mine's their Deborah. South stream is the one who kill both Dominic bosco randy, sunstroke bud I'm not sure. If that simple there might be be reasons for why these mark were committed and why Deborah took her own life will get into then in what is Speculation as far as cause of death for Dominic, the war randy I honestly, you know thinking about it, Couldn't come up with anything, the only thing I could say is we might have to entertain many more possibilities, given the fact that she was able to take her. Pretty burly husband, randy and get him into a barrel into this drum because sounds like no easy feet. He was kind of a big dude. I know people say

she was very strong, but that's it that's a determined woman right there to get this big guy into a drum. So I think this eyes the lemon. Obviously they didn't you think obvious, but there could be many things here that could have been the cause of death them I just can't really think other than to say. I think we will have to include a lot of possibilities. well, we know it wasn't, or at least the pathologic does not believe that gun that a gun was involved in either of their deaths because they found no bullets just going. off, of playing the numbers, I feel like poison poisoning is probably a good, consideration and may be both of these cases and, if that That is the case. Then we're talking about something very premeditated, especially if it

done twice, but also fast, acting because is randy's. You know they always try to narrow down the time frame of when someone died. Randy's case as far as they can tell. He died about the time he disappeared and we know from Dominic staff that he appeared to have died. One to three days prior so Oh, that might also be a clue as to why he was killed by it. Was a poison. It would have to be fast acting. I would think well in Does the house burnt down the path knowledge is playing at a huge disadvantaged trying to figure out the cause and manner of death for Dominic and really there That determination of him being dead one to three days is

as you said, based off of when was he last seen, I believe a lot of it to be from his work, what they could track through his work records for that we call for that time period to shortly for his death. Yet the other interesting thing in- and we didn't talk about this yet, but about close to two weeks before Dominic death, or at least the time we believe it I'd. She had informed as family that he lost his phone. So if they needed to get a hold of him, they should call her. But he had a relative. I believe his brother after he heard about the house, on fire. He started calling both his brother and Deborah couldn't, get a hold of either one, but then wasn't sure because she had told them that he didn't have is found more so he could survive then why his brother didn't answer the phone, but then Deborah wasn't answering hers either

This is a very weird thing to me, because then you have to wonder if we are dealing with a poisoning or any form of premeditated murder from Deborah killing Dominic was this planned Before this phone call is made to her to his relative, splaining away the phone and why you would not be able to reach him by phone That's what I wondered was he you're going to work. What was going on with them, because if she was planning this week's out, which we could understand, because that by the time she had been served. She had been charged with these offences, but to me think she was already planning his death, if not already had a minute incapacitated state or something because that's a real control there, oh yeah, call him, because you won't get a hold of him. His phones gone, so if she did kill

of them. Why? What are the the the theories on on. Why? his aunts, really what were left with. I personally, I feel there or other answers, there are their questions that need to be answered, but All all arrows seem to point to Deborah EM, both of these cases. Now somebody else could be involved. be. There are other players here that we are unaware of, but what is the motivator why I did she do it. Why would she kill randy? Why would she killed Dominic and there's? There's also thought it doesn't have to be for the same reason, and it seems very strange that this stealing of a pocket book. seems to be. What what's, what Where did this domino effect dancing only thing a jumps off the page potential. Doesn't it doesn't

true, it doesn't make sense I think It does in a way, because the only thing that's weird about is why she take the pocket book. Was it s an opportunity where she didn't think she would be caught. Did you not know about the cameras? as this is, where invited law enforcement into her alive, we already have at that she likely killed brandy, but no one file up on that says she got away with that, as you said, but why killed Dominic? I think there's. Or of a complicated story here really when they, asking her friends and neighbors and family. What were they like? What was this cup alike and meaning randy endeavour? while a lot of people said they were the perfect couple? They did everything together. They were in love they spend all their time together? They lived for gardening, but while that's true

Other people started saying: well, she told me that she had views by randy, and then they were county store. Is like the one you gave about randy trying to break into the home and then being mad, that she had locked him out and then him hitting her, but in the end alive People just say will ass, which he told me they didn't have any first hand accounts until they talk to their neighbour, which was albert dean, and hopefully I'm saying his name right, but albion is one. Was mowing the law. right next to the drum for all that time, and he said that two separate incidents where Debbie ran over to his home, having been beaten by randy she was trying to find refuge. She was true. To get away to be so for a little while until things calm down and he went, to say that there is even a report to the police about this or one of those incidents? So in his mind,

the police should have known about this but see who called the police, because, when the police were discussing this case, they didn't think domestic violence Part of this case it all right They thought it was unrelated. Now, between You me and our great audience. I would say there is a real possibility that domestic violence wasn't ball. How well did anyone know brandy and we were would be her motive to kill him after twenty years where seem like they were only getting closer. now. We know he didn't run off and he didn't have a pregnant girlfriend. We know. That's not true. But why did she murder him? There's really Billy that she martyrdom, because he was beating her and they are we gonna discount. Our story. I mean he was in on it? I find his or a pretty compelling. I do too, I do as well. I reading a couple

versions of that same story. I I I wish that I was able to ask our exactly what he saw in what he was told. Because that's really his That's where his story is different than everybody else's. If we are to go by that statement of she appeared to have been beaten when she arrived at his home asking for help that's much different than all these other stories, where it's just assist Deborah relying something that she says happened. Relaying act Tons of randy's did she says he did so. Yes, it's a very different story, In that sense, I would love to. I would love to see They look me in the eye and say: yes, that's the idea What I saw not did not this

She was running from the house saying in telling him he's he's going to beat me the way the his statement comes. Often that in the one article makes it sounds like the damage had already been done. She had had he been harmed by randy before she went to out for help. Yes, he used the phrase beat the hell, and so we could have a situation where that's what's so weird to me about you, know: domestic violence, violence isn't supposed him. Said. So I don't know why I'm trying to make sense out of it, but the picture that I saw of Deborah randy an thee, lifestyle that they were were living in? The that everybody spoke about them just makes the domestic ireland so weird to me it doesn't seem it's like it doesn't fit, but again, if it was there

then maybe it was the quorum quote, family secrets and that's how it works. Sometimes I know I've had many people right into generation. Why and say? No one knew about the abuse. Happening to me and in some cases they I afraid to say anything because they just knew that known, but believe them because a person was so well liked, and in this case it work that way for both of them. If it was true that he was beating his wife, then who would have believed and then he didn't really run away. But that's what Deborah said and everyone bought it. All about perception, I guess and what you think you know. In the killing randy. Do you believe that she,

acted alone. It sounds like you have some suspicions of because of how the body was found. Once again, we are relying on Al Al believe said she was more than capable of getting her huh. into that drum. Yet that she she without work. Any man is the way he described her. Yeah. I don't know what it would taken in. also randy is not described as being a small man. No, both of the manor her life, both brandy and Dominic, or nick as people knew him they're, both known to be pretty bird. guys see Dominic. He was described as a guy who could take care of himself, and so people say he must have been ambushed they do so. see how she would have been here.

The harm him if he saw her coming, but I think when it comes down to it for me, I I leaned toward the domestic violence as being a real factor here, That's barring any other strain or unexpected chow and the relationship of course, but to me I can understand that being a part of this and then why he killed Dominic. Well, she decided to take that pocket, but for some reason That's actually the biggest mystery to me. I'm not sure why she did that, but I think she started a panic, and she'd already murdered one man and I think for her is hoping to ride this out social murdered her other man and with which the police. If an investigator coming to her heart well to what was her my friends home, I think she started to feel

what into a corner where she couldn't get out and she was, I guess, more afraid of what would happen to her then worried about what it would be like to take her own life. I think part of My theory, there rests upon her killing her dog. because apparently she really like shadow even try and shepherd which I dont know a lot about dogs, but from people I've talked with they love this breed and I think it was a situation where she didn't want to leave her dog behind Could see that actually, the thing Here that I think always kind of through me off on developing a good theory, was the situation of the house being burnt down, and but now I'm I'm almost wandering if if she was. the process of doing that, whether the authorities were going to show up anyway and did she killed darling,

I plan on burning the house, the ground it look that it we know that had already concealed his cause of death. So if, if she was planning to burn the house down to two Conseil, his cause of death. Whose essay she would have got charged with anything in Dominic's, murder or death, and Where was she going to go in? I I wonder if a lot of that stuff was already in motion at least planned out in her mind, and she happened to be. It just happened to be that they knocked on the door. for she left that day before she lit the match and tossed it in was able to drive off right question your theory makes total sense, but it's also the kind theory that could throw into question my theory, so I don't like it knocks at it

no it's a worried theory and it worked, but what it would do, as you would say, Maybe she had a different motive than what I was thinking, because she was just trying to protect herself and she snapped and kill their husband, because you, tire the abuse and she had up killing her boyfriend. has she made a mistake and she was scared of what was gonna happen. Well, that doesn't quite make as much sense. if what you say is possible and she was replying to burn the house and then leave and then she could say: oh well, I don't know what happened right, as we know the chances of proving that she didn't anything wrong Can I get a little sketchy, so you could and arson investigator, go in there and prove it was arson, but maybe it's a fifty fifty chance if they go into the home and find a dead man at the bar. The stairs well at that point, she's looking at present time

well- and I also like the thought that you put into about her shooting her dog, because I think that that is could be some indicator. Her motivation in some of this in an I, this is going down a different role. than the theory I already presented. But this was one that struck me when looking into this case, just the simple amount of. We're, not the simple amount, the overwhelming amount of control on behalf in this whole situ nano is randy dead, but he's concealed only is Dominic dead. The house was burnt down and she loved her dog, she could have led the dog the back door or let the dog run free and set a shooting, the dog and then shooting herself and then the amount of control the you add to it with

shooting herself. This is going to end the way I wanted to or the way that in at least in a way that I can control the outcome and something we'll have speculated that randy was not involved with his biological daughter because may Deborah would not allow him to do so, and I wonder if we could have a situation here where did ran, decide that he was going to leave Deborah for any reason. Maybe were fighting. Maybe maybe it wasn't just one sided abuse. Maybe there is a is by both individuals. We even have the one story, the Deborah recounted saying that hit me and I hit him back, maybe right He wanted to see his daughter or may be create some type of relations. there and Deborah what im going to have it or Deborah was not going up with randy, leaving her the dominant

I think, is more confusing to me about what the motive is and that's just simply because we don't know for certain what. The motivation would have been to kill randy, but there's there's different things to look at and examine their there's different thoughts, in speculation that you can apply to that murder would die next situation? You really only left with a couple of things that make sense. and that's either was this in weird soup bizarre way of covering up the whole pocket book incident? Was that dangerous doesn't seem but then you could easily make the leap to going well could damage somehow have figured out what and a randy and then might be motivation enough for her to act, but I keep

I'm back to this whole thing of. If she did in fact kill both those men, she killed the doll. She said the house on fire. She took her own life Just so much overwhelming an overwhelming amount of control on on her behalf, and that may be the only truth. We know of this case is weak from all the evidence. The one thing they you can t together with his control, it's a case that the the itself up to more speculation. Then then information to provide, but those kinds of cases are interesting because sometimes You know it s like. I was talking with someone today about zombie movies, the best ones, the zambian our characters in the film but they're, not really the drive of the film there are these other storylines running. They really grab your interest, and so with

it like this, it's not that song was killed in a spectacular way, hack. We don't know how they were killed, but it's the motive. It's the. Why and so we're trying to figure out Why did Deborah the scene and seemingly had a great life had a great husband? Why did she start to kill and why did she ultimately decide kill herself? So to me it makes for a very interesting converse, sean and fur anyone listening now they can start to talk with their friends who listen and try to figure out what they think happened. Well, I think what adds a lot to this mystery to, as it does not seem that I don't want to pay the picture of Deborah randy being shut in. They were certainly outgoing people. I mean he was the founding president of that, in society or whatever was in they. They participated in the lot of county fares, and I imagine state fares as well, so they

certainly outgoing it in at that aspect, but they don't seem to have a lot of close relationships with with a lot of people, it seems like their circle. of friends was was quite small and see that that not only added to Randy's does parents, not being such a mystery or of concern but it also, I think, leaves a lot of blanks and a lot of gaps that were kind of left. Wondering about of what could have been action. going on in that relationship because you also have the thought of. Is it's a two sided coin? Where you say while the allegations of abuse put forward, Deborah only come out after randy is no longer round to defend himself, but the flip side. That coin is if he wasn't abused, woman. She wouldn't have felt safe, telling

people about what was really going on, but she did tell neighbor, but as far as we can tell he was the one out of every one that seems to have got. closest to them, because he was next door. They were always out gardening. He was out gardening. They spend a lot of time outside together was out gentlemen, that called himself there their power. Gin mentor or was at a different friend. somebody that, like tom, the the secrets of growing these giant fat pub pumpkins now is of Bilbo beer. I think his name was. He was the one that was their pumpkin mentor, so he was the other one. So there too, closest friends where aberdeen and bill oh beer well and in one situation that we can talk about of somebody doing the right thing

in an ironic twist. Randy's daughter, mandy lackey as law enforcement told her. She was the legal next of kin, so she had the responsibility to take care of her father, Randy's body, now initially many said it really through her for a loop. She didn't know what to do. She says quote I could have said he wasn't there for them. Twenty three years of my life, so why should I? be there for him, but adds that It's not who I am. I have a bigger heart than that, so she did the right thing. Many organised, a proper send off, for the stranger who was her father. This included a proper military burial at solving county veterans, cemetery gonna like tat because often in life. We can just say no and cared about me, but you know now ever gets better? Nothing ever get set right

Someone doesn't sacrifice their own time were set aside their own feelings. I mean life's not fair at my mama's always told me that so it's nice to see when one can say yeah my dad heating about me. He was never there for me, but I'm, the only one left to try and handle his affairs tell put him to rest, and she did that. So, while I mean all respect him yeah. They often say that the harder thing to do in the right thing to do are the same, and That's the situation here. She didn't have to give up her time, or maybe in some of our own money or regardless, but her efforts. She didn't need to make that effort for a guy that made little to no effort on her behalf for so many years, but, like you said it's you the right thing break the cycle. She knows what it feels

more than anybody else to not be feel not to feel wanted, and I think that she was Wise enough and had a big enough hard to say No, I'm going to do what I think is right here and I'm going to care of this man in death, even though he wasn't there for me and you Dominic Bosco he was laid to rest by his family and they talked about him and about how to wanted him to re, be remembered rather than this almost forgotten victim of Deborah's. Even in their minds. He was a hard worker. He honest guy. He was not afraid to tell the truth, no matter what they said, he would stand up to anything. He would face anything and they said they were. I miss him. Yeah he's the only one out of the three that is accused of nothing and

like you said, hard worker, and he I have just simply crossed paths with the wrong woman at the wrong stage of in her life, you know I've. I've. I've been wondering if things were really coming in on her. The walls were in. I wonder if she had said something. Maybe into an argument. She said to him: yeah keep talking and up like randy right and then he said oh yeah, what happened randy and then she thought damn he was found at the bottom of the stairs and, like you said, it's difficult to figure out what happened to him, but given everything occurred and everything that we know it's not us. to say that this day We had something to do with his death, whether he was poisoned or push hidden, the head or something something happened to him. That was probably foul play

and unfortunately, with all the key play involved all now deceased, we may never know what really happened is also the possible that their things about this case a we haven't thought, Well. This is one that's going to keep me up tonight. Absolutely because to me, domestic violence is something that is often behind closed doors. We don't know about it, but the people who are suffering they have to live with it. They have to suffer through it and if this was the case with Deborah We have no idea how domestic violence may have shaped her future. Yes, in real quick before we wrap up here tonight, Erin I do want to mention so this episode of true crime garage will come out just before and depend stay, and shortly after independence day, we will have the Our better halves, if you, if you will

or are equal halves, I don't know, We call them, but that, just as in the case then we'll be doing an episode on general Why, on the generation, why part gas? Yes, really funny? when we had paired up before, we had talked about king house again, but then in the end it turned out that all we did was we decide, to keep the same house together for the swap, but then release the episodes on the other podcast Sonia, where recording together again. But this time are recording will be on to crime garage and then the captain and justin their episode will beyond generation. Why well and it's a really fun friendship and relationship that the four of us have developed, the years and it was seeing you in just in at crime khan, and it was great Somebody was brilliant enough to put our too

tables in close proximity to one another, because we do have so many people. We share a lot of listeners and you guys do a fantastic show and it's it's been been a lot of fun talking these cases over with you, how absolutely and it's always a pleasure to talk with you. Well thanks for coming in joining me in the garage tonight aaron you have a fantastic evening. Yak have great evening the the the Thank you too aaron from the generation. Why podcast rejoining me via satellite for this week, show and make sure you check the generation. Why podcast this weekend, because our good friend the captain joins just in for a fantastic conversation check,

get out, and thank you to all of you out there for listening and telling a friend until next time be good, be kind don't let her.