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follows on facebook, twitter, instagram. All that stuff follow us at true crime garage. Thank you care. Now grab a chair grab a beer and, let's talk some true, cried understand. I don't hate her. I hate what she's become. I hate the illness. We can't be better if you put pretty, place. You mean an institution, a madhouse people always call a madhouse someplace. To put her someplace I'm sorry, I didn't mean it is

and carry what do you know about, carry ever seen the inside of one of those places laughing and tears, the cruel eyes studying you, mother, there but she's, harmless choosers. Harmless was one of those stuffed birds. I m sorry, I felt it seems he's hurting, I met people always meanwhile characteristic

and shake their heads and suggest? Oh so, very delicately. Of course I've suggested it myself, but I hate to even think about she needs me. it's not as if she were a maniac. Raving thing. She just goes a little mad. Sometimes we all go a little mad, sometimes haven't you

jack off? It must be very busy need if he's recruiting, help from the student body, busy hunting that no one buffalo bill, but a naughty boy. do you know why he's call buffalo bill. Please tell me the newspapers one today. For a start, it is a bad joke in kansas city homicide. He said This one likes to skin his hops. What do you think his desk agent starling with your eye it excites him serial killers, keep some sort of trophies from the victims. I didn't know you at your word

This was his idea of sex change operation. Apparently, he was not interested in really castrating himself but thought that he could achieve this transformation by literally dotting the skin, he would dress himself up and this horrific skin suit and cape around his property. Pretending to be a mother is an ugly paradox, of course, at the centre of and keen because he's trying to keep his mother alive, and yet this is the woman whom mistreated so badly. So he lashes up asked cut these bodies up. He doesn't treatment, particular reference. sexual isn't. There seem to be part of him that wanted to be a woman

it rubs lotion on it's skin. It does this whenever it's told that it rubs the lotion on it's skin, or else it gets the hose again. He should move to hull, okay, okay, if you let me go, I won't press charges. I cant see my mom is a real important woman. I guess you already know how it places the lotion in the basket, I the look

It's I know the the the the

Edward Theodore gain was born august, twenty seventh, nineteen o six, wisconsin, so last week, mean mean a gain, would have celebrated his one hundred in tenth birthday. He was the second Only two children, his brother was Henry. Who was five years. His senior and his parents names were george and augusta geen ed's, father george, had a sad life. George grew up in the late eighteen, hundreds in a nice family of four, with mom dad and a sister they weren't poor, but they were only about a buck or two away from being poor. One day in the eighteen, eighties, George's sister and his parents went to the market. and I guess they had a like cross a river to do so and when they try to cross the river, all three of them were swept away. So out of you, age george. Keen was an orphan and he grew up pretty

sad and alone. When George was in his mid one. Is he married augusta? Who was about three years younger than he was? They were married in december of nineteen, I'm sorry, eighteen. Ninety nine at gains older brother Henry was born Nineteen, oh two and, as I said at followed in was born in nineteen o six. henry and Ed were born in la crosse wisconsin and at some point, during its early school years. They would move to plainfield wisconsin when his parents purchased a two hundred and seventy five acre farm six miles outside of tat yeah. This is like a really small town. Get lacrosse wisconsin back then was was pretty much a very small town, but you know that was all the sticks and everything right, however, play field was even smaller than that. Erasmus, roughly like six hundred and ninety people yet in hand, in ed, had a pretty boring childhood. Their father was drunk. He did. Ok, they

ok as farmers, but that they made a little bit of money, but the father spent alive of that money on his drinking habits. George was not really available as a father to the boys, he worked the farm, and then he drank their father george. He was constantly getting belittled by their mother augusta. She didn't treat her been like a man. She treated him like a failure and constantly reminded him that he was a failure, well, yeah, I'm a pretty much was a failure, but maybe that verbal abuse was made his failure even worse there. Yet she was. She was pretty much verbally, abusive to say the very low. it actually wouldn't surprise me if she were physically abusive to him as well. Maybe at some point yeah there's no way ports of that. But you can speculate yes. She the roost. You know their mother ass, though she was extremely religious, very much the Oh and fire.

Stone mindset, yam and the thing about her real ledges readings which is interesting to me. Is she had a fixation on revelations? She only taught her boys of the evils of drinking and that sex was a filthy act. sex with something that should be reserved for marriage and for child making only, but sometimes sexism filet act. So she talk badly about women and she actually refer to all women as horse, but makes it difficult growing up in and difficult to figure out the world right captain I mean, or taught by your mother, the sexes only for child, king inside of a marriage, but good luck, finding a way when she's telling you all women are evil. You know who you're supposed to hook up with yeah. It puts a weird thought into your head of if all women are Evil and all women are whores My mother is a woman. So what is she and she's the one teacher

I knew all of this as well. You know it's, it's very confusing, to say the least, but this is the early nineteen hundreds right yeah I was born in oh six. Oh six, so I mean religious. You know, beliefs were definitely ruled. The house ro the country more more like a way more commonplace. Yes, Yan than unum being raised catholic, I mean you kind. I have some of this go into your site, when you're young, but I am not to this extent. I mean this is this: is borderline wacky behaviour? While it's it's also abusive actually job, not so delighted. Straight of wacky behaviour, right, she's, verbally, abusive to the husbandman and now she's psychologically abusive. Today, urban and confusing them by telling them all women are evil, based, probably telling them everyone's evil. But you know it into top that off. She did not encouraged the boys to make friends. In all likelihood, she probably persuaded them to not have any friend

at all I mean she had these boys working all the time. They were always busy doing chores in the house or most of the time out, working on the farm in ed, didn't even finish school yeah. I think he quit school. Fourteen and they said that the only time that he was allowed to leave the house or of loud to not be working on the farm was to go to school at school. Ed was a very average student. Lay his iq was you don t, say yeah pit his iq was tested later in it came out. What do you think average intelligence, But do you know what the number was? I do not know the number the average can change and specially, but in the early twenties thirties than the number would have been a little lower. I believe- and so I heard a term for my friend career this week I said he's probably one of the part of the shadiest eighties kids, the shadiest, a that means you're in the eighties right and your shades right any shady and he's in the eighties. But so I mean it surprising that here was of average intelligence, but

really. I mean he's on the low side of things. Well, they just said average intelligence only thing I guess he really seem to excel in was reading I'm guessing this might be because it may have been. His only form of entertainment or maybe even some kind of escape gather house didn't, have any electricity and I don't think it had run in water. No, no, it didn't have electricity, no running water. have an average kid here and is basically insane mariah as pretty average and maybe a little odd. They said he had this weird work. He would laugh like kind of out of turn yellow. He went. He would laugh at nothing like there was a joke or something in his head, and instead of sharing that joke words or the humor, where he was simple Enjoy that moment to himself edward can Can you to live with his parents well into adulthood? There's nothing wrong with that and keep it might this farm in the house You said it was no paradise. You know the house didn't, have electricity and

and have modern plumbing, but there are a lot of acres, which is pretty two hundred seventy five acres, in fact he Still living there when his father passed, this was in nineteen forty ed's father george died of a heart attack. George was sixty. Six and edward have been thirty. Fourth, this time. So now it's just a gust again and her two boys, Ed and henry living together on the farm, and if you want to know what the farm look like a put that on inscribed, but you can also see that on the website as well I'll call well her brother Henry? He was not exactly like, add ed, pretty much worshipped his mother. He listened to her. He believed her and he believed the things that she said and the things that she had taught him had wanted to do right by his mom, and I think with how much she talked about evil and mistrust and how bad people are and how,

Their habits are, I think, Ed. You know. The only love and approval worth seeking to him was that of his mother Roy. She so judge mental. She she wasn't but, like I said, Henry was different. I dont mean like different. Like you know, some people say that boy's a little different, that's what they're in about an exact like he's, worshipping the mom and Henry as normal yeah yeah he's he's what he's nor and he once a normal life. He desired a more normal life, a traditional adult life. You know things like not living. His entire life with his parents are at his parents home and may be seeking companionship of a woman at this time. I'm and Henry both worked as handymen, and they were doing odd. A round town, add also frequently baby sat ford neighbours. you need a good recommendation. Have he knew to be on friday, night color bed, so Henry viii

the adult man that he is, he started doing normal things and he began dating and he actually got involved in a relationship with a divorced woman who was the mother of two children and I'm sure, if their mother knew of this relationship. There was no way that she was approving of this till you to think he lied about. It at the time. I don't know if, if he lied or if or if she was aware, I'm sure that there was all kinds of feuding going on in the geen household, but that probably would not have got to Henry. Like I said he didn't agree with all of augusta's views and opinions of the world and its people. Spin rumoured that Henry even spoke ill of his mother and he did this any problem. we did this around his brother, ed and and communicated this to add, which put a pest yeah. Well after this relationship developed with the divorce woman, Henry planning on moving out and off of the game, farm and move in with his girlfriend

You want to move in with her a properly could she had like trinity in running water. Here she had some amenities. I look I can take it. I can take it crap and then listen to them You are at the same time on may sixteenth. Nineteen, forty, four, Henry and Ed were burning away marsh vegetation on the property and the fire got out of control. Now this drew the attention of the local fire depart by the end of the day, the fire having been extinguished in the firefighters gone at reported his brother as missing. Now this was well after dark, so they had to come out with lanterns and flashlights, and the search party searched for Henry and they end up finding his dead body lying face down yeah, but there's stories to this I mean, I think, there's probably six or seven story right to go ahead with a story to write the other one. Is that ed? Actually, when he went to the police and said, look there's this fire got, I control. I can't find my brother that actually lead

damn right to the body yeah. Strangely enough, I don't know where he is, but oh here he is right, but he he might be here all the areas they see to believe they did. Henry had been dead for some time and it appeared that the cause of death was heart failure, since he had not been burned or injured. Otherwise, the authorities accepted the accident theory, but there was no official investigation and to his death and there was no autopsy that was performed. The police dismissed the possibility of foul play in the county corner, later officially listed a fixation as the cause of death, but there was also bruises on his head and his face they thought were odd, but they also thought my look. This family has been through a lot. Stuff. The father died. You know it's just single mom now, with two sons: trentham now work on this farm. This is a large plot of land,

so they just felt like there is already enough tragedy with a family that they didn't want to go after add for this another stroke of bad luck. Now, it's just again and his mother now, but augusta's health would start to go south after her sons death. Yet you think that the torment and the torture, basically that she has put in him with her beliefs as she's getting older and probably deteriorating mental health why's that this sector article abuses probably get a more so with ed. Well it but she's she is her. Health is deteriorate You know and she suffered a stroke and add, as we would expect but all of his time taking care of his mother and, after a second stroke, her health deteriorated. Even avidly more rapidly. After that and she died in december of nineteen forty five

was sixty seven at the time of her death and ed was thirty nine. This is very bad right. There's, no way that this could go well. It is not only all alone now he's without direction. His mother, who had taught him ever thing and told him how to live, but you could actually assume you could actually think or hope that it could get better, because maybe get involved in the society and they could correct some of the weird thoughts he was having. Possibly maybe it's Later I mean someone that he had pretty much devoted his boys might almost forty now you're hinder he devoted entire life too and inexpensively his adult life, but was that word especially alright? Death? but the listeners know you're working on that word: hey I'll, tell the stories here. Ed's mom is gone and ed was said to have been inconsolable at the services for his mother's passing. He was

crying hysterically. You know, I said about oj them. Well, I'm not. I want to be clear that I'm not trying to pick on ed gain who just lost his mother But I do want to point out something here. He didn't behave in the same manner at the loss of his father or brother. Now it's just ed no father, no brother and, most importantly, no mother edward remain on the farm. Continue living in his parents house at still did his odd jobs for money and he starts to work for the municipal road crew, but even working with others. Still seem to remain a solitary man, but he was a good worker. The armenian people would say, look If you are going to pay him a dollar to re, hang your door fix something you're going to get a dollar fifty value out of his work and yeah. They said not only hard worker, but he would do a good job. He wouldn't screw anything up. You could count on ed to do to do a good job. Do honest work and that price came from the harshness of his mother minting video.

been wrong around the house. How she's gonna worry me for and you're probably going to go to hell. Because of that and you don't want to be a failure. Like your father, yeah, you don't wanna, be a drunk failure like your father and hate. You left a little piece left on your dishes. You're going to Hell so either by himself and even once he starts working with other people, he still not seeking friends or friendship. He still is not seeking the companionship of a woman at borders, several rooms and the families house, so that they could not be accessed even by himself but there is a lot of talk that he possibly wanted to be a woman yeah they're way, there was like a child that he wasn't really like an arrest, was a masculine. He wasn't even talked several times about possible. Mutilating his own genitalia. I think he was a very confused boy who grew up to be an extremely confused man while he and what came first, the chicken or the egg was.

was he a confused boy where his mother made him more confused, or did she create all that chaos? I don't. I think that we will ever know, but you know it here. He is he's alone. Why ass you go, dig up her dead bones and ask her he is alone in their house right and he's boarding up these rooms words up the upstairs from the home and a couple of the rooms in the on the ground level. And he started living in a small room right next to the kitchen that, but you know in the winter time than is actually common in farmhouses toward up from room to room yeah You know like the pocket doors that I've been and bodies houses of mine farmhouses. What they do is they have their eager kitchen, your family room, maybe one or two bedrooms and they'll pocket. You know all the doors up and basically cut off the heat to that part of house. Now, together only hearing about one fourth of their house, while he's boy

up everything and now he's only using the small room he's using the kitchen and the shed and as a month you know a minimalist and well in everything gets. I mean he's living very sloppily while living is rapidly rapidly. That's aboard her! Now it's not yes, it is he's living very slop, ITALY and the small space, but the the rooms at you. Boarded up. They remain clean and and kept maybe just like his mother would have expected. So now. Ed's reading habits and interests change a little bit. He starts reading adventure stories and stories that would talk about. maybe feature things I cannibalism more nazi atrocities and maybe, for you know at this point in his life, he's going to get another hobby. You know so far. We ve only seen hobby such as taking care of mom in reading, but with this new hobby farming

he's extremely lonely. At this point I mean he's on two two hundred and seventy plus acres. Oh trinity, no running water all by himself at, but he doesn't try to make friends. What Does instead, is he none? I understand I but bound to say that this loneliness does encapsulates him. He decides to get involved and grave robber. This is approved. time for beer in new orleans, twenty twelve burst catch. Here I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist. Ass, he stood in the park. What were the address should have been? He was shot and killed. I'm you d umbra join me for the newest season of counter clock, as I die the motive behind bruces murder a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now, binge all fourteen episodes of counterfeit season. Five wherever you listen to podcasts.

Sometimes we lose that don't know it's still fun when fun. Sometimes a roll is a one and one makes me love it. That's why nationwide is on your side, nationwide mutual insurance company and affiliates columbus ohio. This spring transform your outdoor space into her

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You know stealing corpses and I dont know about these days, but like a hundred years ago, you could sell a skeleton, a clean skeleton for big bucks. Ed was a body snatcher and he was taking corpses, but he wasn't really taking them for profit. He's taking these bodies back to his home or pieces of the bodies back to his home. For his little experiments is what he's going to refer to this so we are already starting to see some signs of his psychosis now we'll get into the body snatching later, but on november, sixteenth nineteen, fifty seven a plainfield hardware store owner named Bernice warden. She disappeared, yeah and if the warden hardware store and when wardens son told investigators that ad gheen had been in the store the evening before her disappearance, he

That they had said I'm going to return to morrow tomorrow morning to purchase a gallon of antifreeze. The police began to suspect gain one. There was blood at the scene to rent there's blood, the scene, and on top of that there is a sales slip for a gallon of antifreeze, and that's the last receipt that was written by warden on the morning that she disappeared. So investigators are going to try to go out to the gain farm and have a chat with with that which is a spooky, big: they get their enneads, not there, so they they help themselves and when they get to gains property, they discovered wardens competent body in a head. Yes, so they don't have to go into the house at first they go into the shed behind its unlocked and they other flashlights in the roman around they actually bumped into the corpse jack has remit there's no electricity, so there

walking in the dark with these flashlights right and and they bump into the corpse and its hanging like on the dear hooks, united. If you've ever been to a farm where they do the gutting of the deer. It's like being hung by the the little hooks yeah. She was hung upside down by ropes at her wrists and a crossbar at her ankles. The torso, as the captain had said, was dressed out. Like a deer. You know she had been cut. You know when they gut the animal. and she had been cut in that fashion and they were able to determine that she had been shot with a twenty two caliber rifle and that the mutilations were made after her death. Geen is now in custody and he doesn't talk much. He basically keeps quiet and investigators keep they begin searching more through the home and they find other atrocities on the property and in his house yet now what they find after they arrest them, obviously, is of legal search.

But before that, that's a legal search, it may be illegal, but I know I don't know I mean they have probable cause an let's say the shed is unlocked. I dont know that if that gives them the ability to just go in there, but that's what they did and afterwards the the search of the house Is I mean this search already of the shed is shocking, to say the least, but the the search of the house. It gets stranger from there, and I have put together a little general list of items that were found. These were not all of the crazy items that were found in it gains home.

Some of the items I will not mention, but some of the items were found. They found human bones and fragments of bones. They found a waste basket made of human skin human skin, covering several chair seeds. They found skulls on his bed post. These were female skulls and some of them had the tops sawed off. Somebody had taken the tops of the skulls and made what appeared to be like bowls from the from human skills. They found a corset made from a female torso skinned from the shoulders to the waist and lay wasn't really course. It was just basically the front just the front portion and they believe that and would put this on and where it around they found.

Leggings made from human leg. Skin are several mask from skin of female heads, so he he would have had to have fillet the skin off of the bone, preserved the skin and stuff the faces with paper, and then he like hung them on the walls. Bernice warden's entire head was found in a burlap sack. They found her heart in a plastic bag in front of gains pot, bellied, stove yeah and the the telling of the detect if finding this bag, so he he finds his bag and he can see hair human hair, but for whatever reason it was just like what he says is the natural reaction is to know reflect. You know. Reflex was just to grab the head out of the bad. Can you could you imagine

dealing with that. I mean I could imagine dealing with anything that they ve seen so far, but that occurs. They also find a belt made from female nipples. They find for noses and a pair of lips on a windows aid draw stirring. They also find a lampshade made from the skin of a human being very creepy stuff yet, and they also find a there's a there's another face in a paper bag and they find a skull and a box. Now it was later determined that the school in the box and the mask found in the paper bag

for now to be that of Mary hogan Mary hogan was a tavern owner, an operator who had disappeared three years earlier. Yet this is a tavern thy edward going too frequently, but she was known to have kind of a foul mouth yeah right, so you know whatever time period. This would be that be the fifty four or something like that. Yeah she ain't she was. She was not a woman that took any ship from anybody. You don't owe me she was kind of loud she was. She was the boss of her bar. She was that the tavern owner right, which so with his upbringing with women are evil and women are whores and women are bad than you know. See this in life, so they believe that he probably went after because of that, they also

say that she may have looked similar to his mother at one point in her life- and you know, Mary probably represented everything that Ed's mom had warned him about you now and, like you said she was loud found, and she was in again she's pushing the only legal drug. You know she's she's running a bar, She goes missing in what was interesting, though, as people talk about her gone missing an ad multiple times said: no she's. She not missing. I have her in my farm. Well now they are convinced that he's probably guilty of several murder. You know they went out to figure out what had happened to Bernice warden. They come across this other woman, that's been missing and they find all these pieces and parts of these funky art projects that he's made yet and the they have no clue about. Do him digging up our graves at this point?

so now they're gone okay. So we note of these two ladys, but all these other people who are these did he kill all these people. So now they gotta get add to talk, and during this questioning add he admits to the investigators the after waylay, but he doesn't talk for two days and- and this is pretty disgusting itself, as he only talks after receiving why a piece of apple pie with melted chattered, she a beaver, believe it was or cheese, its wisconsin right, which is as freakin disgusting- that's how they do in wisconsin it's this gross but anyway, so he he doesn't talk. He requested this pie with this cheese is discussing animal and he eats it. And then he d sings

there. He starts telling them that after his mother died, he spent about five years body snatching he claimed to have done these things in a daze. You know like you with some undercut some kind of spell. He said that he had gone to the cemetery may forty times, but many of the times he would conduct come to any would leave the graveyard empty handed, but sometimes when he didn't come to and on those occasions he took the bodies are pieces of the bodies of the women back to his home, in them the night he may have been in a daze- I don't know, but but to me he seem like he seemed like he knew what he was looking for. You know what I was bringing home middle aged women or middle age pieces of women who at very recently been buried. He was probably trolling. The o bits But you know you I mean here, but I think some of this is manic or psychosis her or whatever would be, because

may lead let later on to go to find out that he does not mentally stable and has long been questioned if he had had sex with any of the bodies are cannibalize Many of them and no one can really say for certain if he had done either but later discussions about his axe, he claimed to have never have had sex with the bodies because they had smelled too bad. I suspect that he may not have had sex with any of the bodies, but maybe he was he was probably using them for some sort of basta vittoria purposes. You know in it, after after its determine that he had only killed two women and that a lot of the pieces imports were of bodies that he had taken from the graveyard. Now we ve got to question ourselves, you know, did ed kill his brother

I think it goes with the evidence of there's bruising on the head. So if it hit home look, how did he get the bruising on the head? You know and maybe that the the bruising on the head was not the actual cause of death, but. but by knocking him out, then he dies from the smoke. Some suspect the ad game killed his brother, a questioning geen about the death of Bernice warden in nineteen. Fifty seven state investigator Joe willimon sky, brought up a question about henry's death and doctor George Arden, who studied the case, wrote in retrospect. It was possible and likely that Henry's death was a cain and abel types

Wait then one has to wonder too. I mean how, if, if it did, kill his brother Henry any chance his mother knew about it or had any idea what had happened, or I think you'd be too afraid to tell her what happened. I could see that are definitely could see that and the other question that we have to ask ourselves is: did ed kill anybody else? I me we know that they didn't find any evidence of that at his house or in the shed, as if you look him up he's only responsible as far as records go for that The murder of the two ladys well during the nineteen forties in the nineteen fifties was constant: police began to notice and increase and missing persons cases. There were four cases that particularly baffled police. The first was that of an eight year old girl named georgia wechsler she had disappeared coming home from school on may first, nineteen forty seven

of residents and police, searched and area of ten square miles of jefferson, wisconsin hoping to find the young girl, and fortunately georgia, would never be seen or heard of again. There are. There were good suspect, the time, but the only evidence that the police had to go on war. Tire marks found near the place where georgia was last seen. The tire marks were that of afford the case remained unsolved and wouldn't be opened again. Until years later, when ed keen was convicted of murder, another girl disappeared. Six years later, in lacrosse wisconsin, this was fifteen year old, evelyn hartley. She had been baby sitting at the time that she had vanished. her father, repeatedly tried to phone the girl at the house where she was baby sitting, and there was no answer and he worried and the girls father immediately drove to where she was babysitting, nobody answered the door when he peered through a window. He could see one of his daughter shoes and a pair of her eye glasses on the

or he tried to enter the house, but all the doors and, Windows were locked, except for one, the back basement window. It was at that window where he discovered bloodstains and he entered the home and discovered signs of struggle. Yeah you'd think that if there is more dna you that not more dna, but if they could use the scientific a knowledge of dna that they could have linked some of these cases to what they found in gains house. Well, it well possibly here, but I wonder that the his home was probably so cluttered Dna didn't read it even you know, had it been available on agreement, contamination and cross contamination that, like that well at, but after that, after evelyn's father had seen the signs.

of a struggle. That's when he immediately calls the police. When the police arrive at the house, they found more evidence of a struggle, including bloodstains, on the grass leading away from the house. They found a bloody handprint on a neighbouring house footprints in the girls, other shoe were found on the basement floor. There was a regional search that was conducted, but evelyn was nowhere to be found. A few days later, police discovered some bloodied articles of clothing that belonged to evelyn, and they found these near a highway outside of la crosse. Now here's some things here. We don't have any evidence pointing to ad gheen, even though that these girls went missing during the time that he was in the area, I think one would have to dive more into to him in his personality and his psychosis. Ah I I the other thing too is: is he traveling that far off the phone?

is he travelling that far off the you know his little bill city, they lives and is he is even roaming at all to and before I shoot down these two. I want to point out that the other two people they had gone missing were of men. They were out hunting and little known about their disappearance, but but looking at gains crimes. You see here it's it's always against women. I mean, with the exception of possibly his brother. but we see a pattern here and the other pattern that I wonder about is it seems to me like that, like the two women that they found in his home and if he did kill his brother, these are all people that somewhat had a relationship tat gave. These are people that that he knew in some form

It was like, I said, the town that he lives in is so small. I mean it's under a thousand people. I don't suspect that he was like uh. Ok, like he's not like a ted bundy right, like ted Bundy, is the kind of guy where, where killing women is an addiction to him. You know it's his it's his it's his thing: it's his bag. You know it's his drug he's totally addicted to it. He has to do it with ad gheen. I don't think that he is addicted. Killing. If, if he were, we would would have come across more victims, we would allow more victims in his home and, furthermore, I think he's. Well, you found a bunch of body parts yeah, but they know where they came from, not all of them. But the thing is here that what I think we're seeing is a difference between somebody that has to kill, like a ted bundy right to somebody like at geen, who has the ability to kill after they think that he has some form of schizophrenia, and this normally sets in.

Late, teens, early twenties, so he's fifty years old when he's arrested, so we're talkin bout up thirty the window of him having struggles with mental health, but I I think he has some form of that too to begin with, but I think the mental break is when his mother dies yeah, but it you know it could trigger and make it worse. But I mean he's he's found not fit to stand trial based off a mental illness so just based on schizophrenia and and how it nor my operates late, teens too early twenties. Well, let's talk about that convention a little bit. Okay, so gain admits to killing mrs warden. He says it. He had shot her with a twenty four calibre rifle and dragged the body out

I too his car and transported back to the farm house, and then he would later confessed to the murder of the innkeeper Mary hogan that took place three years earlier, even though for three years who said that shoes at the farm so but he said that most of the body parts had actually been taken from corpses of women he had dug up in a local cemetery. The detectives were unsure of game was telling the truth on this and thought that he might be responsible for more murders. So they went to the summit Harry the plainfield cemetery and they exude the bodies of eight women and they discovered that they had all been mutilated body parts, including faces breast genitalia and strips of skin, had been removed by somebody who had then carefully placed the bodies back in the coffins and replaced the ground in the earth above them which would

it's a lot of work- and I wonder if he is doing the mutilation at the cemetery or, if he's actually taking the bodies back home, I think he could be doing both. I have no clue either way. It's pretty sick, you know, but he would do this in the middle of the night and in one really weird thing about his confession, as he said that he and a trusted friend that he only identified as gas I had made these nocturnal raids of it in the wee hours of the night after just like hours after the women's funeral and that they had read the obituaries in the local newspaper, now, I wonder if these women looked like his mother,

Some of us may have. They were all normally they have a picture with obituary and they were. They were middle aged women. They probably reminded him of his mom a bit. But again we have this weird person that he talks about. So a couple things want it. Could this be? A figment of his imagination could be his psychosis setting and right form schizophrenia, seeing things. Ah so it's imaginary, friend or I should be a real person and then be, their motive is not so much mutilating the bodies, but you know stealing whatsoever in the grave and gain said that he didn't tell gus what he was doing with the bodies that he said that he was just using them for his experiments. Which would make me. You know they don't find all these jewelry and all this other stuff on his property. So maybe gas. His motivation is for the money, possibly I mean. But what are these experiments against doing? Is he making the bride of frankenstein

begged his house anyway. While the experiment is year with furniture and no arts and crafts Jeanne says that they say this form of arts and crafts ever when he says that he only began killing. I guess gus would have been an older man and gus went to live in a you know: retired folks, home and old people's homes, and once gus was no longer able to do these nocturnal visits with him to the cemetery That's when gain had to start killing occur? We dive into that more just based off of win. The bodies were buried in the murders actually place. Possibly I I'm guessing that this is part of the reason why he was not able to go the trial. You know to mean that part of the reason why he was not able to go to a real prison and

So, let's talk about that anyway, so that he's arrested, he's come he confesses after he eats his gross apple pie with cheese, and now he has to go on trial for this and and it's national news, this is a like. I said this is a very, very small town under probably seven hundred people. At this point and now he s going go to trial at, but now they gotta figure out. Who is he fit even stand trial and they find out While we gotta have this valuation, so they put him into a mental facility tat well. Another weird part of this confession was this sheriff reportedly assaulted, gained during the questioning by bang gains head and face into a brick wall and as a result that initial confession was ruled inadmissible. Now so the other legal search, the beating up gain but the overwhelming evidence that they find in the home- and you know that-

now a days of people made the documentary about this that go while he's he's innocent. You set your letters, monster out the peat, the police, put the bodies in its own right, but so on november, twenty first nineteen, fifty seven eddying was arraigned on one count of first degree. Murder in wisconsin and he entered a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity found mentally incompetent, and this is why he could not stand trial. Keen was sent to the central state hospital for the criminally. Saying this is a maximum security facility now later he's tran,

for to the man dodo state hospital in madison wisconsin, and this is where it gets really weird. For me, because in nineteen sixty eight gains, doctors determine that he was seen enough to stand trial. Now the trial begins november. Fourteen nineteen sixty eight and at last only one week. He ends up being found guilty of first degree, murder, but it, but this is where it gets funny. They sent him back to the mental hospital. He doesn't go off to prison like like one. expect. He ends up back at the mental facility yeah, but back in the day they didn't have it. There was no like cross breeding there I mean you had a prison or you had a mental facility. Now in the prisons, they have doctors and nurses on staff. One thing about this thing to captain that I've always wondered about we're. Talking about. You know wisconsin we talking to

at geen all the crazy things that they found in his house. It's really not terribly different than what they found in Jeffrey Dahmer, 's home in his apartment. None at all and geen is determined to be obviously insane. I would agree with that. I mean that what what little bits that that I know of that came directly words that came directly from ad gheen or letters that he wrote he appears to. Not fully understand the magnitude of his of his crimes or his ash. Eighty say heats, kidman and well into one thing that you and I had talked about was no there's a letter. I typed letter, I dont know if he wrote it because it was typed, but he certainly signed it where he seeking legal. Council- and he says in this letter that he is excited to meet with the lawyer, because he wants to discuss his release from the mental hospital like like out. Like you got a chance of getting out, I mean

Come on and we all know, Jeffrey Dahmer was deemed to have been sane and he was sent off to maximum prison maximum security prison. But there's a good argument for him, being, you know not saying I think, there's a strong argument for both of them. Having been insane, however, I I think the difference is you know, must be the words in the confessions of the two that there's something in the words of those confessions that separated one from the other and but maybe that also comes from cause. Dahmer seem to have some remorse as far as like you're getting some, you know, spirit sure side in his light life later and then the Al Qaeda acting somewhat remorseful. At any rate, he did I mean he said. Dahmer said I didn't want to kill people. I didn't want to be a monster. However, that's what I

as on the inside and at some point you just accepted it and decided he was going to live yeah what he had battle that back and forth, but that's are absurd, three. If you wanna, listen to us, discuss Jeffrey Dahmer well, while at gain is locked up in the mental house, do not house little house and this is a nineteen. Fifty eight they decided here is a good idea. Let's auction often gains property right yeah because it basically there are no based paying taxes on it, There's no family members laugh because member all women are evil, so you can have a baby with with a woman and so than others, scatters property and of lyon get an egg ourselves. Well, now a days you know, if a horrible crime takes place in a home, they typically does bulldoze the thing over because nobody wants to be reminded of what happened there. I wonder if this is how they cut

idea. Well, if somebody had the good idea because they were gonna auction off his property, they were, though, the home and all, the belongings or property that remained there. I think there was like some probably farm equipment. There was a car. There was the house than everything in the house the docks off, and this is national news, so this is bringing in a lot of people to this very small town yak, as he's I'm he's a monster that it makes national headlines in. Everybody wants to know why and how how and where, with all the freaky stuff, that they find that you know people's fascination, it's true crime. That's that's how people get fascinated with while some called it an act of god. The police probably called it an act of arson read for whatever reason the home caught fire and it burned to the ground or an act of overtime cause me. Maybe this was done by the police. Who knows who knows who'd? Who did this, but it seems like somebody came

burnt down the whole house yet had been my town. Had I been like the mayor of that town, I would been like: ok, here's here's we're and were an auction off the land itself right, but the home. Let's let the fire fighters have some fun with it in they can life said in a blaze and try to put it out and set it up please again and try to put it out, get a lot little test going on little training. I don't know if I'd want anybody in that. That's true! That's just I mean the amount of bad vibes in that house, which I wouldn't want that to both anybody, so the house's burned to the ground. They sell the land, the two hundred and seventy five acres, her answer that they sell the car. yeah and engage actually has little reaction to the home being burnt town. He could almost care less right his words were me: might as well are just as what s his liberty ways claim to have said at. Like you said the girl, car was sold

now remember. This car had been used to haul bodies of victims and possibly in a full bodies from the graveyard back to his home, sought at public action for seven hundred and sixty dollars, that's well over five thousand dollars and today's money, in its soul to a carnival site Show operator his name was bunny gibbons, we're great name. Heavy going guess on the show next week. He would take this around it. front carnivals and festivals, and it was like a when it like a freak show. Almost you know you put a tent over it and he would charge people a quarter to come in and see.

Means pussy, want our money back, that pride called it like. A gains, death, car and all kinds of prior came up with all kinds of crazy names for July twenty, sixth nineteen, eighty four at gain dies of respiratory and heart failure due to cancer. He was still living at the Mendoza mental health institute, his grave site in plain field cemetery has been vandalized over the Here's an souvenir seekers, something off pieces of this gravestone and actually, I think the whole thing was stolen at one point with pretty big gravestone. He was buried next to his mother, which is kind of fitting somebody steals the gravestone, you know and like billy the kid- and you know these, these famous criminals and sometimes famous good people. You know people come and want to steal a piece of the the headstone or the whole thing. I guess the whole thing was stolen and at some point the gravestone was recovered. This

be in june of two thousand and one, and they find it all the way in seattle, which is quite quite some distance to travel to steal gravestone. Anyway, is now trying to keep see. Other weird is weird there it's now in a museum in wisconsin Now we all know that any gain has made a major impact in books and films he's been. You know. Sometimes, when you watch like an egg keen documentary, they will say. Oh this was based Donnie gain and based on it, and then some will say it was loosely base. Now, a lot of these characters are extremely loosely based off of ed king one that we all probably know is leatherface from the texas chainsaw massacre movies. Now what a scary movie, those there's this there's some pretty scary ones. The second one is terrible. Don't watch the second one just skip right over that number, the first one! I mean I was telling you the story about how you know

You have a sleep over and then you everybody wanted to watch a scary movie. But as I was I am in the morning to go. Go upstairs. My we gotta watch texas chase mask your cause, is based on the true story, not knowing at the time that it was lucy based on at keen and then the family in and then also just form itself. So if you see at gains farmhouse and then you also see the text a chainsaw, ask your farm house it's similar, and so we star watch in it and as free. They pick up the guy with the wheel terribly for maybe sign the wheelchair. That's the remake, not really a hundred percent That's the original had a guy in a wheelchair, so it s kind of freaky and every kind of little bored until leather face opens up that door. Pause the the guy or the girl and slammed slaves and asked his quiet. It's a freaky seen yet and it scared the path ahead of us and everybody disorder and will do so. Movies, really boring

We want something else just so they because they want to turn it off the hurry, because we're freak out well leather face. He gets his name from wearing a skin mask. You know us a face mask of other person over his face, and that was not leather face, and I see that directly related to gain was doing something very similar. You know he's making mascot of these out of these bodies and, like I said, the farm house and then the family. If the family was a bunch of at gains, what would that family be like, and you heard buffalo bill in the trailer? Of course you know he was making the skin suit. One could speculate. That again was me, skin suit. You know you talked about the portions of the female reality that he was wearing and he he admitted some of that as well

There are also some terrible movies made. You know you know at gain the butcher of plainfield bow or, first of all, to thumbs up on texts to chainsaw massacre, the original two thumbs up on silence of the lambs and said now: we're go and talk about some shit well, range was a pretty good movie that took place way back and nineteen. Seventy four never seen that and I'm gonna give that one and a half thumbs up can a big to thumbs up to psycho, which I actually think psycho is more like eva Allen and anybody else. I don't think it works the way where you give to thumbs up. I think you know my original posting of a thumb. Yeah at them, but you didn't see the movie. So I had a judge. I just had a pinch, hit good. Then we don't do a movie part. So psycho, I think, is the one that's most like a gain. This is it this is of the norman bates and the baby. Hotel debates, motel, and he has a fixation with women in he behaved.

I will give the whole story way, because I recommend that want just this also great holloway movie, only a few years afterwards right, yeah in in now bates clearly has a mother issues as norman bates was probably of a higher level of intelligence, then at keen. So those are some movies for you to watch next month book, but halloween coming up there, some several good ones in there have not seen them and if you have seen a random again, and then something that was super odd, oh yeah, the music the energy musical. I thought you were gonna, go back to the apple pie with cheese on it. Now that's this the two thousand and ten in wisconsin. You could see a musical titled again, the musical pet look of apple pie cheeses retain that's cool, but set me up. Sure of you eat in it to prove that it should things to me: that's disgusting am amid alma midway

boy, even though there are rumours that I am actually do the the pot gas from hawaii- that's not true! I am a mid west boy he's amid passbook. Now I wonder if the egg keen musical one any tony's novel, no tony's, now no one like her skull, bull, but you could google ad gain art people, for whatever reason have made at gain? Are I think, it's time to just kind of, let that let it go. Let it go people you know, let's not sit around and try to make him into some kind of fascinating peace. pop culture. You know why you, I think what happened here was this guy did some weird stuff and at the time, They heard anything about it. You know anything of this nature, so that's how it kind of blew up

and then by basing other characters on him. Then you're gonna blow up this myth even more when it comes down to he had a lot of mental illness. He lost his whole family. Possibly responsible for the murder of his brother and he had a huge hatred for women and probably had a hatred for himself and being confused on. You know, Not a masculine man and a lot of issues and because of this people died. Yeah. A part of the thing I think with at gain too is the fascination of this story has been lost on some of the generations. You know it was such a famous store, were you back in the fifties and sixties, and then you know we had other horrible people come along and do terrible things and it has been kind of lost on maybe this generation and it weighs. This is a to me a fascinating case and kind of something that started the whole true crime thing

Definitely definitely it and it made it huge news. It didn't start at all. I'm just saying he's one of the major pillars on the nation talking about crimes and well in those influences into book and film, id like to get more true crime and chill on you can do so by yet speaking of books are recommended. Reading would be psycho usa by Harold schechter, and he Harold schechter, is a true crime. Author and historian, in my opinion, one of the best and what he does in this book is he doesn't talk about You know that more infamous killers that that we are all aware of you know the new disease, the Dahmer, the bundy he's talking about more low, key and lesser known serial killers and this psycho usa by Harold sector, and you can pick that up by going to our website. True crime garage dot com, you click on the recommended page and click on the ammo.

Ban. Are you can pick up Harold sectors book for everything? True crime garage go to true crime, garage dot com and for Listen. You know social media, facebook, twitter, all that stuff at true crime garage Yeah make sure you support the sponsors they support the show. So there can be a show next week and thank you listening and until next time be good behind and dont litter, The.