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Elliott Smith ////// 307

2019-05-28 | 🔗

Elliott Smith ////// 307

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On October 21st 2003 famous singer and songwriter Elliott Smith was found dead following an argument with his girlfriend. At the young age of just 34, Smith died from two stab wounds to the chest. The mystery is whether the wounds were self-inflicted or the result of a homicide. Beer of the Week - Ninja vs. Unicorn by Pipeworks Brewing Company Garage Grade - 4 1/2 bottle caps out of 5

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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the Stephen paw, Elliot smith, known simply as elliot was
born in omaha Nebraska. On august six, nineteen sixty nine an only child. His parents were Gary smith, then student. university of nebraska medical center and bunny k bury men elementary school, music teacher, seemingly followed his mother's creative footsteps, but the shared passion for music, he would to become a claim singer. Songwriter skilful, a skillful ellie was six months old when his parents got divorce following this, his mother, uprooted to Duncan veil texas with. infant son. It was there where she met or new partner, charlie wealth and began what was reported agonizing chapter smith's young life. It was said to endure a turbulent relationship with a step farther. He could his childhood was tainted by cruelty and sexual abuse. His alibi
Regions have been denied by wealth, though charlie reference Anne elliot songs, including flowers for charlie and no confidence man, despite his hardship, elliot found a positive outlet he started playing piano at the age of nine. Soon after he was introduced to the acoustic guitar, a gift from his biological father. Around this time, Psmith wrote fantasy original piano peace when in him a prize and the arts festival at the age of fourteen elliot, went to live with his father who was working ass, a psychiatrist and portland oregon adolescence was a period where Psmith found his artistic style. he started to experiment with recording, played clare net and the high school ban at into his repertoire of instrument,
He too sang in the bands, a murder of crows and stranger than fiction, build as stephen smith or johnny panic. but elliot, was venturing down a darker path within a circle of friends. Drugs and alcohol were prevalent This behaviour was considered a coping strategy away the help navigate the inner demons of its youth, after graduating from lincoln high school. national merit scholar, smith drop, the name stephen choosing, instead to be called elliot, he attended Hampshire college and elmhurst mass and nineteen I one he graduated, with a degree of philosophy and political science it was in Hampshire, the elliot form the ban heat miser. the band made three albums before being signed virgin records and releasing a final abolition. Ninety ninety six
that same year elliot move to brooklyn new york as an artist elliot's known for soft, almost whispered, vocals and complex. Yet simple, melodies fans of his work, have praise his intensely personal lyrics, though there are of sadness, anger and self destruction throughout these are layered with a bare bones, vulnerability, the writing could be interpreted as both relate a bull, cryptic and nature. and ninety ninety seven alley would be approach. By director? Gus fans and dance aunt wanted elliot to be a part of the soundtrack The upcoming movie goodwill hunting the soundtrack feature to songs from the albums roman candle and either or with the third song, miss misery. Following
Helms outright success elliot received a nomination for academy award for miss misery, despite being in all of the oscars exe parents, he was quoted to have described the vat as surreal and other worldly and the background ally was believed. Struggling with heavy drinking and the use of anti depressants. major label dream. Sign elliot and ninety. Ninety eight, the album exe was released the most profitable accomplishment of his career. Sadly it was at this point. Elliot's mental wellbeing began to decline, he spoke openly of suicide and reportedly made at least one serious attacks. To end his own life when
the intoxicated elliot plan to jump to his death? His fall was broken by a tree which left him injured but alive, and the early two thousands Elliot's mental health became at sea is concern. It was likely experienced, paranoia and delusions adamant vehicle, was following his every move and that his label dreamworks was plodding against him breaking into his house and stealing songs from his computer.
Noted that Elliot may have gone days without eating or sleepy and plans to produce a follow up album two x. Oh, what solved report state that elliot complain about the intrusion of his personal life as well as poor promotion of his previous work. He apparently begged the label to renounce all ties, therefore, indian his contract, or else he threatened to take his own life two thousand and one elliott was said to be smoking up to fifteen hundred dollars of heroin and crack cocaine daily and may have tried to overdose as a result of his suicidal state is disheveled. Appearance was unrecognizable during the occasional performances he managed to tat. It was known to exhibit alarming signs of awkwardness and memory loss to the point
forgetting song lyrics in late two thousand to elliot and his girlfriend jennifer Sheba, wherever then all altercation, with the los Angeles police department, outside of music concert, allegedly elliot, was trying to the fund, a man who was being harassed by the officers in question. This result, An overall anne elliot being arrested, concern over elliot's appearance emerged. It was described as looking out of control, elliot's arrest. Things were looking more promising, In january and february, two thousand three he achieved to sell out acoustic shows the Henry fonda theatre in hollywood. Outwardly appeared
he was aiming to regain his integrity as a performer, it's been speculated that Elliot had attempted rehab several times to no avail. I couldn't do the first step stated, I couldn't say what you're supposed to say and mean it after as thirty fourth birthday dolly cut out alcohol and in ended his long term use of psychiatric medication. He also gave up caffeine, red meat, refined sugar for recovery, after many years of unease began, and to re emerge himself into recording, exploring different styles and recording techniques. Elliot played red fesse at the university of utah on September. Nineteen two thousand three is closing: song was the beatles long long along this road? elliot final performance,
The on october. Twenty first, two thousand three paramedics work. two elliot's home and echo park. California, his girlfriend jennifer shared the homework elliot made, the call elliot was found with tee stab wounds to the chest and he could not be revived. I one thirty. Six p m, Elliot smith, was pronounced, dead jennifer's account following an argument with elliot. She took a shower, locking the bathroom door,
sharing a unnerving scream. She opened the door to fine elliot standing with a knife in his chest on impulse, pulled the knife out cause in him to collapse, She promptly called nine one, one, twelve eighteen pm suicide, no written on a post. It was rumoured to be near by the note red- I'm sorry la valliere god forgive me Was this the result of elliot's in her pain, an act that he's been threatening a long time or is there something more to the story? Suicide or homicide
There are unanswered questions and mysteries surrounding the events of october twenty first, two thousand and three. What really happened, sally smell alright, there's a lot to unpack here and the question becomes suicide or homicide and because of the inconclusive autopsy ruling, the los Angeles police departments, investigation
means open on this case. So even though most people say it's a suicide, why would they investigation remain open? yeah this is a tricky one, because we have a secure she's here where there seems to be some kind of argument, and it seems like it was a big argument. and then later what we have is we have one man dead and then the only person that is there too Tell us what could have happened or what led to this individuals. Death is somebody that you might suspect could have a reason for killing this map. So it's very difficult. When you only have this one, let's call it. I witness refuse to talk to
you have to go off of what their statements are and based off of the scientific evidence? That's out there now his girlfriend jennifer shiba. What she claims is that they were in an argument for several hours now. This is backed up by neighbors hearing yelling hearing doors, slam, hearing cabinets slam so that part of the story. We could believe what jennifer is saying, because backed up by other witnesses. So there are many points of speculation and many things that point to suicide or homicide. So we went to dive into each one. Those points the first one being that there is no hesitation wounds.
So what that means is normally when somebody commit suicide by knife, which is a very small percentage of all suicides normally, and they actually put this in the same category as a stabbing or cutting like some, a cutting. The wrist they put this in the same category, that is still a very small percentage of all suicides. Now, normally, when somebody stabs himself, there's hesitation wounds right, meaning there's a couple marks around the actual area where they stab elliot was actually stab twice, which is also unusual. Now, here's where it gets a little convoluted, because the hesitation wounds can actually have been destroyed by him
stabbing himself, so there could have been hesitation wounds but because he was stabbed twice, those could got rid of the evidence of the hesitation wounds so these to stab wounds that that led to his death. These are deep stab wounds, so what you're saying is there could have been of one or two quick little stab march, that that you cannot detect now because these two or so big yeah and when I originally heard of elliot smith suicide. I remember hearing the roma wise, as was a big goodwill, honey fan and to know elliot through that movie. Basically, that's how I knew of his music I remember the rumour was that Elliot smith. Ah, that super depressing songwriter guy. Yes, he took his own life. How did he take his own life? He stabbed himself and the heart with this.
that was the rumour that I heard for years and then I was thinking. Well, maybe it wasn't the door into the spoon it would been the handle of the spoon, but now having the time to investigate ego, K stabbed himself twice in the chest or that's what the speculation is, and so the other strange thing about there being no hesitation marks is the majority of the people that actually stabbed themselves do so not through clothing, so that if they have a shirt on the lift, the shirt up or unbuttoned the shirt, and so when they go to stab themselves, it is knife through skin, and that is it not the case and the Elliott smith's death. He stabs himself through the shirt
and so you gonna stab yourself twice through the shirt. Another thing that points more towards homicide than suicide well in some people might be thinking. Well, that's a crazy thing to say stabbing through a shirt is very uncommon, but straight from the autopsy report. Here here is what we have from their own words is. There are several aspects of the circumstances, that are a typical of suicide and raised the possibility of homicide. These include the absence of hesitation wounds stabbing through clothing in the presence of some while incised wounds on the right arm and left hand possible defensive wounds. So He was stabbed with a kitchen knife with a regular one. You know just a boy
aid on one side, one sharp side, kitchen knife, alright. So the first point, the no hesitation wounds, I'm gonna, say Dont know they were there not so to me that does point either way to suicide or homicide yeah? Oh, I agree one hundred percent, the other thing you're too is. I could see a situation where there was. There was never going to be any hesitation wound right. You know if we have, if we have this guy, let's say he's just angered out of his mind. other and argue. We know there in an argument. He picks up. What's ready, available a kitchen knife from his kitchen and boom. Why in and boom another one. So, according to the coroner report to the autopsy right, the cause of death established to the chest, each stab wounds is considered fatal.
her say you know, meaning if this were to be untreated for any length of time. This guy's going to die right and they say that the second wound appears to have been deeper than the first because they're saying that there is a peripheral aiding wound to the heart associated with statue. Number two well and the situation that gets difficult here is, like you said, the there. They cannot find any hesitation wounds on this. Individual I'm with you. It could go either way when you when there is a an offender stabbing a victim, you D typically will see any hesitation wounds because they are attacking the individual so on the second point, him stabbing himself through a shirt to me that doesn't seem super likely not impossible. Obviously, but you know the corner
even saying hey this is. This is something that we look at. This leads more to the side of homicide, so I go ok, no hesitation marks. I dont know That means so we can lean on the side of suicide there, but with the stamping, through the sure I go to me. That leads homicide yeah in that's exactly what they are saying in their report in the medical report that this is one of the reasons to point toward homicide rather than suicide, so I agree with that as well. The difficult thing here is the sure is described as a black T. Shirt again, I could the situation, the sky so angered out of his mind that there's there's no cooling down going on for this guy yeah. I agree that it could be pickup pickup. readily available knife through the teacher you note taking off the shirt may provide
did a cooling down period to go. Wait a second. What am I doing? What am I? What what's going on here, ryan? That's, I think. So both agree that will lean towards homicide that point yeah other, but but it's not impossible, not impossible, but I'm going to agree with the expert Anyone here, yeah the other one to is that there is actually bone, breakage or or damage to the bone with the stabbings and there's two again. This is difficult because it's not a situation where he's home by himself and in he's just press and decided. That's it he's in an argument, but was the time when they see a suicide by stabbing or cutting or cutting there. Isn't that they're not hitting bone lot of that time. I'm I'm guessing from the cutting situation would be cutting at the wrist and you're, not gonna. Hit bone their likely, I think he
It would make the percentage way lower much much lower, and I think that The situation here is very difficult to really get a grasp on what the percentage would be here as the location of the stab wounds, so the local none of the stab wounds. It would be very difficult not to hit or break bone right in that location. So, but I do want to point out. One thing: why were you know talking exists about these stab wounds? Is they do point now and the autopsy report that the stab wounds are consistent with self infliction so what they mean by that is the angle of these stab wounds. It would not have been impossible for him to have done this himself right. So it's not. We're not talking about a farming malik type autopsy report where there is a gunshot wound to somebody. You know
Their back on the back of the head and in a weird location, this is location, these two stable. a right to the chest to the chest cavity and he could have done this. You know from this angle. He could have done this himself or it could be also consisting with somebody lunching at him with a knife. While than Have the angle of the blade and the world? for that, I heard is that the angle that the blade was that is more consistent with homicide than suicide, but with it be in such a small laid. I wonder if that even manners or if that should be something that we even taken to play, that is too difficult for me to get a grass spawn from looking at the autopsy report. I cannot figure out if these are vertical or horizontal brain
wounds. The there is a diagram on their now people can find portions. I couldn't find the entire autopsy report, but you can find portions of this and it looks to me judging by reports that I've read in the past and what I can see on the the papers I have here. My guess is it this Topsy report is probably anywhere from fourteen to twenty. On pages long well, but I could find five pages of of the actual autopsy report. So one page that I have that has the diagram of of his body and where there is going out the wounds its two wounds that they have here. It looks like their indicating that these would be vertical stab wounds, but I can't say one hundred percent because of the way
this is drawn out and the the notes that were taken on this diagram are all written in shorthand, and so it's difficult for me to Say what what the medical examiner was? I was trying to convey here in this diagram, because you know for her It's very very likely, especially if she she determines that it's suicide, it's a document. It is only necessary for her, so it's not like it has to be typed out, They would type these out typically in more detail right, but that page is missing from what I could find. So I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that they haven't closed the invest. Asian or it might just be. The website where I got this from is not it okay, so
It's not like a typical website where you would go hunting for autopsy reports. They this just might be the portion that they decided to release on their website. If that makes sense right right, they're, taking a bit of creative control here and decided. Look a lot This is, is medical. Mumbo jumbo in it won't be of interest to us. readers, russia, we will. We will present the pages that are of most interest or what we think that they will find most entrance interest an but like you were saying, if if, in fact, these are vertical whew I mean trying to make the motion myself with my right hand, her left hand that does make it, little more difficult. I could see if they were
horizontal wounds, it being easier to stab myself in the chest and give more force and thrust right, an I think what I'm man across the chess like as if you're like beating your chest, I could see that being more vertical and but to your point, is that if these are in fact vertical wounds, that would be more consistent with homicide with somebody lunching forward in attacking him. If had the chance to be brought back to life hundreds of years in the future. Would you take it wonderings newest podcast frozen head hosting?
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The alright back to the open investigation of elliott, smith, suicide or homicide. The other thing that is strange here is, like you said, there's defensive wounds and right. When you hear the term defensive wounds, you go. Aha, yeah! The high got him, but he's defensive wounds. It's not that simple. There's not a lot of defensive wounds on the hands where,
with thanks so may, that was trying to defend themselves would be marked up more again, though. It's also hard to figure out because it's not like, we have the knife in front of us and if it's just like a more of a doll kitchen knife, you might not see as many defensive wounds as you would with like us. butcher knife, yeah and they're, not saying for certain that these are in fact defensive because if they were one hundred percent on that they're going to go ok It is not only an undetermined death right. This is as a homicide, and we we need to look at this or further investigate it into to the point to where we can say it's not a homicide. So the thing with these two wounds, and it may be more than two- but it says the presence of a small incised wounds on the right.
arm and left hand, and then they say possible defensive wounds, so I see you obviously with the hand you the in a lot of times when there are attacks, you see several cuts to the hands right. Where person is able to fend off the attacker for a deal. The amount of time until that til their end up. They end up being attacked to the point of their death, but I don't. I don't think I fully understand the the wound to the right arm. It's it's more like towards the chest area or towards the shoulder area, eea. It am I right about that. you could be from from this report, though again this is in shorthand, so I dont know what this this mark is indicating here on the right arm. It looks like it could be more than half way up the arm right. and this is where it gets strange for me too, because we have reports of
slamming doors and famine, cabinets and We all know one of our friends that have got in Are you ma am punch something now, whether as a refrigerator aura door orton in so I wondered? Is it possible that elliot was upset and tried upon something off and and and maybe there's no evidence of him. I once punched skill it. It was the dumbest thought but at the time you you just an argument. Europe set punch here. You know that. on something that you shouldn't punch, and so I just wondered: if any of these wounds to the hand would be Something that would happen from from that. The way that is described sounds almost like some form of cut
branch would go to the thought of defensive wound because of the the knife being the what ended up killing elliot smith. I think that the difficult thing here Is I we don't have jennifer? I don't know anything about his girlfriend. Might I don't oh, where they line up size wise compared to one another if what he was bigger than harm. But but not, you know, right in what what I'm getting at here is that I think that will I feel like I've, see a situation. If this was a homicide that there would be many more defensive wounds, I agree to Elliot Psmith, because I think he would have been able to fight her offer fend her off for a good amount of time and keep in mind. We oh? Let's, let's pretend he was attacked? Ok, let's pretend. For a moment, this was a homicide.
We know that he would have been attacked straight on face to face my possess where the wounds came from yeah, it's It's not like, we have a situation where we can think that he would have been attacked but from behind and it was a bit of a sneak attack or anything like that. This would be a situation where he would be able to defend himself for decent amount of time, and I think for me The small amount of speculative defensive wounds, points to maybe those are either self inflicted or cause from something else, one she claims in other argued for hours and hours. And finally she liked this is nuts ray. I'm gone. Let's take a shower and I get away and then once she goes in he's now tottered come out. You know basically a if you don't come out. You know I'm going to kill myself is threatening to kill himself according to her right- and
again, we don't know her, but we know. his life, and so my that has talked about suicide as openly as he did for one but two. We ve seen it time and time again where would threaten this a you know, I mean you're gonna. Let me out of my record contract I'll, kill myself, that's on record, so at least we say hey. There is some evidence that backs up what jennifer saying I go to the bathroom we're in this argument and then it becomes now come out or I'm gonna kill us now she says she's only in there like five to ten minutes for this five to ten minutes is Elliott walking around with the knife it it you know, does he you know accidentally cut himself in the hand or does he says he purposely do it, and who knows we? We won't. We just don't know, but I believe that part of her story
hurry because we have evidence to back them up. So it would be interesting to know which side the laid was on the sharp side of the knife per his wounds, and I say that because with with where this wound is on the arm ray. I could see that that, maybe because, if he did stab himself, he stabbed himself twice Chested least one, and so we know the knife was removed from the body and then entered the body again. I most wonder if the wound to the hand or to the arm, if it's a possibility, depending on what site The blade was on. Could that have been from the I've being removed and
other thing we should keep in mind too. Is she jennifer when she finds elliot he still awake and according to her report, is stand. I think, at the time that she finds him. She removes the knife from his chest yeah. So let's unpack this. This part of the story a little bit more well she's real, quick here, but just before it before before. I forget thought completely might where I'm going with. This, too is could this have been? Could he have put his hand to his chest, grasping at the pain and she were moved the knife and then that that knife upon removal could cause the wound the hand, there's ways that these could be right. These wounds. Could occurred without them being an intentional by him or her. While yeah and part of that story is it, she pulls the knife from him he collapses. Look at, though, that
the one chess wound or the shorter womb, whatever com, it is possible when she pulls the knife out that he falls into the knife so because he does collapse so that that's a possibility to explain away some of those what's very difficult is Jennifer was trained. extensively and first aid, and so she would unknown that you do not pull the knife out you add pressure. You call on one, you add pressure, you do not take the knife out because sometimes pulling the knife out causes more damage than it does goin in there are some people that she has worked with that have came forward and said: hey. I went to the classes with her. She knew she knew better, but then, on the flip side, the argument becomes yes, that's when you're in a controlled environment, there's no panic
there's no blood. She comes out a bathroom. Could she hears us agonizing screen? He turns round. There's a knife in him. She pulls it out. Now, people that are going to say hey this is homicide, but what a great way to cover it up all he stabbed himself where I stand. him I'll just tell everybody. I pulled the knife out. That explains why my fingerprints are on this knife. That explains why my hands are bloody. When we re Eddie show up right, and so it's kind of weird to me that people that she worked with would come forward and say: hey. We took these classes together. She knows better. So to me that part
Its again, it's tough, it's a grey area, because it is a part of me that goes yes. She knew what to do in class, but you ve been in a heated argument with somebody that you'd love or to me that you live with some of your connected with somebody that has had a lot of shoes and- and so then you freak out and he pullao the knife. He do something you're not supposed to do, but she did call nine one one. Yes, so the the words of the medical examiner are this. Additionally, girlfriends reported removal of the knife in subsequent refusal to speak with detectives are all of concern so that this is not our opinion that the removal of the knife is the concern in the opinion of LOS Angeles county right now I did, I did find
think sorry, because I'm I'm reading, as we are doing this because I was for more information on these other. What we were talking about just before the possible defensive wounds We also want to cover this a little different. We want to have it be more like off the record. Just canada, open discussion then wanted me going into this blind, less say: yeah, with very little information or knowledge about the case. So, according to the body, examination from LOS angeles county more slight laceration is noted to the palm of the left and right hand and another slight last Action is noted under the upper right arm as well, so under the upper right arm, that's a little that's away from the heart so that that's like
not caused by what I thought of possibly removing the knife after the first stab and then stabbing myself again. But the thing that's tricky here, is, but if she removed the knife and he clamps forward, the knife could hit him. Under the right arm. The small slight laceration is noted to the palm. As in left and right hand, which is possible, if he's using both hands to stab himself, it could have slipped on the second stabbing yeah that that's a possibility, but again it strange, but also consistent with me, putting my hands up trying to stop an attack by. I would expect their where say small, slight laceration. If I've put my hands up, in a way to do to stop someone from attacking me and I'm hit in the palm. With with that knife, I'm expecting to see there's gonna be.
worse, there's going to be power behind that blade, and I would expect there to be these to be deep. Wounds the palms. I mean you can almost envision. scenario: where he's picking up a knife in test it quick on one hand right, because you do. I mean if, if he's determined to do this he's going to grab a sharp knife and, like you said, the the the other hand could have simply been from slippage from now. We have we blood entered into the equation, we got a slippery situation his hand could have slipped for the second stabbed in mind you we do know that based off of the the how deep these two wounds are very
likely. The second stab wound was with more power with more force, which is strange to me because to me that leans more homicide than suicide, because you'd think after the first stab he would be weakened, he'd be weaken, but again adrenaline, I mean you know: mm yeah. He he It's now at such a, but what's also sad about this- is here's a guy that went through all this stuff and obviously had some trauma from his younger days and wrestling with a lot of stuff but seemed like he was turning turning a corner and even afterwards his girlfriend said it didn't make any sense because he was so. healthy did. This was probably the healthiest he had been since the time she had known him. Russia,
That doesn't mean that he did relapse, because we, I think with depression. lisa everybody deals with depression differently by I've, always with friends our family members. I don't really understand that washington or or or you know, I you know, I've had people tell me. I I've been depressed a couple of times, but I don't understand a daily depression or a or you just live with depression all throughout your life. Well, to me, it's very similar to like alcoholism or something where it's like you wake up, and you need to do certain things every day to kind of keep yourself. Above that, low level and- and so is it possible that he was eating better and exercising and staying away from drugs and and all that kind of stuff, and then he does, but he still had a relapse of things aren't going so well.
day, and we just happen again argument and that just pushes em over the edge well so I have a couple of things here in this is from jennifer statements. We said that you know, according to the report, that her refusal to speak with detectives is of concern which should be, but in her statement was she stated to either law enforcement or to the medical examiner. I believe this would be to law enforcement. Is that jennifer stated that the deceit and has suffered from depression all of his life? He had a. story of multiple narcotics addiction, heroin, crack and alcohol abuse, although he had been clean for over one year, he enjoyed- good and self mutilating behaviour and would burn himself was cigarettes. He has a history of one possible suicide attempt, but they go on
say that its unknown details or time frame or circumstances and has a consistent history of verbal suicide threats right the deceit and sought treatment for his depression from several psychiatrists. It was being treated with multiple prescription drugs and, according to the toxicology report, the only substances they found in his system at the time of his death were all proscribed medication. That was, you know, he's or therapeutic medications, a war or or that's what they're right. I rise for there's no traces of illegal substances or alcohol because, what's on clears, we go hey these these medications were prescribed. What I would like to know is when When will they prescribe and not the sand like I'm talking about
It was the initial hey, we're gonna, put you on X, drug to help you with depression was that six weeks ago was that he's been on it for a year, because sometimes they have reverse effects, and I've had friends that have had had a mild case of depression, never having suicidal thoughts and then getting on antidepressants instead of it working now they have suicide or thoughts. And so again, I wonder, is this: some: were they tried? Something out can sometimes it takes weeks and weeks for these to take effect in a good way or a negative way, so that, could be a possible reason why this person that was now clean and get in their stuff together in the healthiest quote. Uncle he's been sense. Jennifer knew him that he would be in the state that you'd want to stab himself, not once
But twice what an medications or such a difficult thing, and I do not care for doktor just kind of willy nilly prescribed things to people. I know that that it seems like the medical profession, that people are getting better about that. Doctors are getting more strict about that in policing themselves as what had impatient right. But that's what happens when wall suits happen yeah, but I can recall two. Situations for me once I was prescribe ritalin, and I was on it for several months. It made me incredibly I can't even explain how depressed I was right and the only I dont know one hundred percent that it came from the ritalin, but that The only thing that was different in my life at that time. Right and so I you know, finally got smart and quit taking
and then another situation I had where I was going through some anxiety, stuff and asked my doctor for to prescribe something, and I cannot recall the name of what I was prescribed, but I took it on a son. and this was like a narcotic, though this was one of those deals where you get the prescription and it has to have like the stamp like the it's written on special paper, and so I got this thing and I called my doktor on my day. The day after I took one- and I said we gotta go Get some other kind of prescription here and she said what's the problem, so I took one of these and I felt like I shot gun. Eight beers like I was I was at the up later I mean I was. I was here there. I was the air traffic so that the medical
asked in the difficult thing, but according to the autopsy report in according to statements from his girlfriend jennifer, he was clean. For over a year now she stated in this report that she knew him for four years and we're only together for one year and they were living together at the time. I wonder It's a situation where maybe they liked each other and she's like look dude you're you're on some hardcore, dogs right clean your shit up and we might able to have a relationship yeah, I'm in or this is It also may she admired and when he's really talented, but that doesn't You wanna be in our relationship with a talent, talented drug attic cause. That's what Yeah and, as you said, Jennifer pulled the knife out of the deceit and chest and saul to cuts on his chest. I find that a strange statement,
bit strange that she he's wearing a black teacher. We can assume there is quite a bit of blood involved. No how the shirt would have been tore from those from those two stab wounds sprang, but I think too is a bleak and to immediately notice to wound seems a lot strange to me well I but less okay, just a little bit because she he did collapse right. Yes, so it's one of those things where it's like she goes. Why pulled the knife out? Then? I saw these two stab wounds. He walks away from her after she pulls out the knife and then collapses, but but then on point she called my more one and yet he she then goes over and tries to help him She called nine when one immediately according to her statement and performed citizen, cpr and first aid with operator assistance until paramedics around.
right and so on. The name on one call would have at least evidence of that or evidence of her faking. Yeah, because we have seen situations where people are like. No, he couldn't have killed his wife. He cleared. We perform cpr on her. You can hear it on the nine one one call and then scientifically They determine later that the the husband faked no just pretended to be doing the chest compressed. Windsor or any form of split again when she goes over cause nine one one, and maybe she saw the two stab wounds, then just making the statement that you saw two stab wounds there are claiming that she say that right away, I pulled the knife. I see the to stab wounds accord to their statement according to their statement. What I'm saying as though as yet for the paramedics get there. If she notes that there was to stab wounds, I wanna think that was too odd, right back We do know that she, if, if she's to be
leave she was performing. Pr on him at some point would have noticed if she didn't notice them immediately. She would have definitely noticed the two stab wounds. Then I would guess: yeah an end, so then the pyramids common than they take him to the hospital and he's yeah,
He will he's alive at this time. He's not awake. Young can't speak to anybody, but he technically passes away at the hospital again. I think this points more toward suicide, because somebody that has this knowledge cordon quote this knowledge of first aid. If somebody was gone to commit homicide and try to cover it up, one of your wait a little bit longer to call I'm a one, yeah yeah, and so it's you know, because once again, when you hear stories in the first story that I heard was he stabbed himself with a spoon. I remember thinking at the time for those pretty young and and be an artist were or trying to be an artist
thinking what an artsy way to go. The guy stabbed himself with a spoon. Then you come to find out. It was not well that's like the telephone game. You know what I mean or or some guy who goes, fishing the fish gets bigger every time he tells the story yeah. Well, that's all That's also like phantom, though right, like yeah fans are going. in and rightfully so. This was a very talented individual and you see a situation where, where fans are going, he was- a regular man. He can't have regular means of death right right, even though he threatened suicide multiple times he would never have taken his own life I, then, if he did, it would have been with a spoon. something something dramatic. Oh, although this certainly in itself- let's say: let's, let's pretend it is one hundred percent suicide. This is
very dramatic, very dramatic fashion. So, but but again, I think some of that is maybe not so much dramatic as it is adrenaline anymore, also yeah and very impulse yeah and I think somebody that struggled obviously use impulsive pulse of he was a crank head up and point. So I think that is evidence of impulsivity, and so you have a situation where he can't control. This he's had a hard time controlling himself. Ok, now I can control it by taken alive or more than you know an infant look for all. We know he was going I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna stay myself and she could said: go ahead, go ahead
Stop yourself in a lot of people would go well, then she's, responsible and some level. I would argue that this is probably not the first argument they had, and I also partly argued this is probably not the first time that they were an argument that it threatened to kill himself. He seems, like somebody mean, if your threatening to kill yourself to your record label, how many other people have you tried to use that right and one thing I do want to clear up to make sure that we're clear on this is in her statement where she says so it in the county of LOS angeles in their investigators, narrative. What saying here is he has a hiss of one possible suicide attempt, but they go on to say known details unknown to frame, unknown circumstances. That's because this is
simply her jennifer, saying yeah. I I think he attempted suicide. on one other occasion, but she's unable to provide any details of such so there, there being very clear with Your statement of that is that they are not definitively saying that he has a history of suicide attempts, again I could be some phantom, but there rumour for the longest time, was that he tried to kill himself in a tree broke the fall which left him injured, but he wasn't dead and then there their all reports that he actually o deed, multiple times on drugs, and then that becomes did he just eau d, because he was used in heroin in reducing tried owed or or was it on purpose. So when you- have some? It is oh deed, multiple times an ego, okay well with which one is it, and then he could also make an argument that
How much do you value your life? If you constantly using these drugs, I can possibly kill you every time that you use them this. This is a difficult one for me, because I thought I d always heard these rumours, and this was one that was actually brought up by listeners several times and be random. It just be, and it was a multiple, never multiple times times has never like. I gotta email that said check out Elliot psmith suicide, and let me know what you think, I think It's something more there. Well again. First looking at it, you start going suicide homicide. While I think l, a p d, has it right right now, just open because they don't know for sure.
Yeah and I think they're leaving their open and hopes that if it was homicide that maybe Jennifer will say, somethin, maybe she'll slip up and tell somebody something, and then that is what would lead them down to the charge in her with something. I don't think that's gonna happen and I dont know if this case will ever get closed, just because there is so many things that point too homicide other reno rather than suicide, but I think the suicide note for me. I think that's all the law
as point but to me the biggest point. There is a suicide note. Yes, it's only on a post. It note right now the rumors for a long time was that you know it says. Let me read, it again, doesn't have much to it, but a possible suicide note written on a post. It note it read. I am sorry, love elliott, god. Forgive me now. The name elliot there was rumors that it was spelled wrong because Elliot he spells it with two tees and in the coroner's report it was spelled with. One t Well, that's all it was. It was misspelled on the coroner's report by somebody other than elliot Psmith right saw it. It wasn't me
fell on the posted, no spelled correctly on the posted know, but in the coroner's report is a spell, correctly so that was a rumour again something I heard for years, oh yeah. Well, there was a suicide known as kind of weird than its on opposed to know and they spelled elliot wrong while inheres here's their exact statement, a copy of a suicide note- was provided by lapd detective king original we'll be provided on ten twenty, three o three. So at the time that this documents created, they have not received the original and they just have a happy right and what they're saying is the note was hand written on a post. It and stated quote: I'm so sorry love elliot with won. T god. Forgive me. The note is not dated right.
So here's here's where it gets weird detective king could have wrote this out and handed it to him and said this I'll get you the I'll, get you the original again for years. I heard that there was a suicide note, but the name was well wrong. Now now we know that that was just it was dismissed, pilot error, yeah. So here's where it gets weird cause. We go okay, they believe- or at least while the speculation that I've seen is that this note was written by elliott smith. I am sorry, love elliott, god. Forgive me.
I would like for them to examine. Just the god. Forgive me because I am I'm so sorry, I love elliot humming fights. Were they in that week that led to a bigger fight, and is it possible that he just wrote that out and he went for a walk on yeah, just left it yeah and didn't write god. Forgive me, but again everything that I've seen said This note was written by elliot now. If this now was written by elliot jennifer would have walked into the perfect situation. we're in this argument. He's he's out of control. I can't stay I can't stand it anymore. I want him dead. I'm gonna stab him and all look. He left this little possible suicide, no, So now I can stab him twice: pull it out
wait a little bit, but not too long and I'll call nine one. One again. I I think it's more likely this guy that threaten suicide. Multiple times was in a state of panic in state of acting erratic couldn't control the situation properly was making threats the person on the other end of the threats, poorly thought. They were hollow threats because they were hollowed threats before he writes this no simple, but he wrote it and then he stabbed himself twice and she comes out and yes, she should not of pulled the knife from his chest.
But again she called nine one one when she could awaited just another five minutes or another, ten minutes or another. You know what I mean well and another another note regarding the note and it states here that once the decedent was taken to the hospital police officers arrived and questioned jennifer about this incident. During this questioning, she was seated at the kitchen table and noted for the first time a post. It know that appeared be a suicide note left by the deceit. Jennifer recognise the handwriting on the no as that of the deceit and and had not seen the note before that moment. The knife with the knife, the deceit and used to stab himself was a regular kitchen knife that immediately prior to this incident, had been sitting out on a cutting board in the kitchen
right so than the note. According to detective king and according to these police officers, it's not believed that she saw that no beforehand by so there washing her there talking to her there trying to figure out what's goin on while he's being taken to the hospital right and she then notices the no but there there and look these guys are trained to read people and their reading. Somebody see this note the first time. Well, in the thing here to captain is the way that this autopsy document reads. It sounds like the detectives. The exact words are detectives believe this death is possibly suspicious It sounds to me like they were suspicious of this whole incident as soon as they arrived on the scene right now, the
Problem then becomes the person that that's dead. You can't speak to them. They can't give you their account of what happened. Now we have this other person. We only have two people in this apartment at the time that this incident occurs so if they are immediately suspicious, they have to figure out. Is this person whose giving this statement jennifer? Is she truthful? Well, we can't determine some of her truthfulness right here during this question, because we need scientific fact. We need evidence and stuff like that to tell us if she is being truthful about the exact incident by
What we can figure out is as a whole. Do we generally walk away from this conversation and believe her statement as a whole to be truthful, so what they're going to look for? Are things like? Ok? So, according to this document, it does not say in here that that she took a shower, but for instance, that something would use? Because, according to the statement, is she took a shower and then heard the scream? This leads me to go that she had an end, her shower abruptly and go out to find him well first off when I'm talking to this individual does she look like she recently took a shower? Is our hair still wet right? Does she look like she was in a shower those interrupted? Okay, we spoke to the neighbours. yes, they heard shouting. They heard some kind of argument. So what they're going to do is if they are suspicious
of this person, they are going to look for reasons to feed their suspicion or look for reasons to believe her story. More her story is being truthful about points of the story, so again if she were to have attacked him. We know this would have been a face to face attack. This would have been a head on attack. We see very few possible defensive wounds and then on top of that they're going to be looking at her in saying does he looked like she had just been in a fight, does there are any marks, are scratches or anything on her. That would lead To believe that she's real I ve been in some type of altercation wrote some type of fight where she attacked this man right, and I think if they seen those if that would have been obvious to them or, if any point of the shower or the neighbors. Didn't you now confirm the argument. They would have act all that stuff up and they
piled up against her to leave, to to have the suspicion meter till more toward homicide right so that it could be further investigated as such. So- I think here what I'm going to go off of is similar to you. I, my determination from the outside looking in would be. Yes, there is cause to question this right. as a suicide. But for me there are more things that point towards suicide, as well as the nine one, one call if, in fact, that was placed immediately that really, points to me like she was just doing her best to try to save him and then. Top of that. I'm gonna factor in the the response being officers, they don't. seem to know anything in this report that they be
leave that she was in some type of fight before this this occurred. So I think that I think that there is a lack of evidence to point towards thomas I do I the I would like to hear your opinion. Suicide or homicide go to true crammed garage dot com and go to the blog and lifestyle. Your thoughts there, also, if your looking for old episodes, download the stitched up there all available for free on this, too drab an hour weekly, show off the record on stage a premium is available to just go our website and click on the off the record link, and if anybody wants to learn more about elliot smith, this great artist
You can find a lot of his music videos on the internet. I would recommend son of sam is a good one, as well as his performance in the late nineties answer and I live if anybody is looking to check out more of elliot, smith's good good stuff that he did give to us. While he was here, I recommend doing that arrive until next week. be good, be kind, don't let
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Transcript generated on 2023-01-26.