In new orleans twenty twelve bruce catch. Here, I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist. Ass he stood in the park. What were the address should have been? He was shot and killed. I'm you d umbra, join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die, The motive behind bruces murder, a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now binge all fourteen episodes of or clock season five wherever you listen to pod. The

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crime. the following a written and sent from a maryland prison You are always asking me about my murders. Well, there is one that no one knows about that's right, pow

I have never told anyone about this murder. I never have go far to find a victim for most all truck stops across the: u s: head wars working in and around them. This the story of a young prostitute. I killed in october of nineteen ninety five. She was well King, the seventy six truck, stop in reno nevada. I was dead having a blue long nose peter bill. I was hooked up to a freezer trailer, that's a trailer with a freezer. I beat rape that bitch in the sleeper of that truck that night. Until I grew, tired over then I put my hands on her neck and I began squeezing her screams of paints. We dwindled down to mere rasp of agonizing grants and grows sound. She made slowly faded away, never to be heard again. Sweet death had finally come down upon her.

Now her body was just a dead carcass lying in wait for the decomposition to start the breaking down of cells. I lay there with my arms wrapped around her dead body and slept for about three hours. I woke up my alarm clock going off at five thirty a m climbed over her and I got dressed. I throat a blanket over her, then I started the truck up. I got the truck locked the door and handed over to the coffee shop to grab a check. The computer for loads heading east, closest thing I saw available to me that I was looking for was alive of ranch house, salad dressing. They wanted taken down to Houston, texas, the cup He was located over sharps nevada, which is only about

twenty five miles north of the truck. Stop I decided to accept the job. I grabbed a coffee to go and off to the truck I went. I climbed up into the cab and checked everything out off. I go again So the warehouse in sharps they had the low but there was no one there because it was. Saturday morning, sign on the doors they were opened up at nine a m, but it was only so Forty five, a m I looked around and there wasn't a damn soul in sight. nothing around this little business part. So I thought this would be a perfect place to deter off. A drag your dead ass at the truck grab my little army shovel and off. I went back of that little warehouse founded is isolated area back there,

I buried her and about forty five minutes, this industrial work wasn't very old, so the ground was pretty soft and that's where she is to this day, was not for another two bodies later that I would realise what away of all, that good meat was only end. a being nothing more than a bug in warm food I have never a tear for those I have killed. Nor will I down the road, those sweet, young drug, addicted prostitutes that I killed back in my password much dead to the world long before I killed them, They were nothing more than walking zombies. Looking for a few moments of pleasure from their sick twisted daily lives of shame. I feel I've done. Those where souls a favor, if I feel anything for them. I feel only from jealousy for their pay.

There are over and mine continue as I behind these bars until the day I die, having closed my tooth for you. We never But now you will always have a part of me with you. You take care, be safe they're. My best friend signed with the thumbprint pressed in blood. the summer eight nineteen, ninety six baltimore maryland and captain I would consider the great state of maryland to be a beautiful, beautiful stay in baltimore to be a beautiful city as well. Well, I would not consider the couple of city blocks where our story starts off. To be anywhere near beautiful, sat up to rockville maryland

This is a dingy undesirable couple of city blocks on the city south west side, back into number of ninety: ninety six, Joe method- he is forty, six years old, he's about six foot, one inches all an almost three hundred pounds, so we're talking about a pretty big guy boy on the night of the eighth. He met woman by the name of rita camper, who is thirty. Seven years old, he met her at the borderline bar now Joe is, this bar nearly every night drinking beer in southern comfort, the bars right by where Joe method he works, Joe works for the Joe stein and sun palette company, For those of you that may not know palates are those woods skids manual. should primarily for stacking cargo. When loading you know, Yolanda semi trucks are trains anyway.

Not only does Joe worked there, but he is living there so Alex I'll. Explain Joe is a forklift operator at the Joe stein and sun palette company he's a forklift opera, it or by day, but by night he is a night watchman. Joe is a well let's say: he's a very persuasive personality, he's outgoing he's, quite the talker so my guess is Joe had nowhere to live and he cut a deal with his boss. You know You need someone to watch this place at night. I work here during the hey, you know me, you trust me, so they work out deal. I think they only paid him an additional twenty dollars a week for his night watchman duties, but he got to stay there and sleep there at night the Joe stein and sun palette companies located at thirty two hundred james street, which is in the southwest corner of the city of baltimore, the company is situated on a lot which is adjacent to a wooded area

company has a locked entrance gate and is surrounded by an eight foot, high chain link fence with barbed wire on top. The lot is approximately the size of a city, a square city block there is a warehouse and an off building there that is surrounded by literally thousands of wooden palates, which are stacked at varying heights. Throughout the lock there's, no business can did at this company or surrounding companies during the evening hours James street a dead end street where there, very little to no pedestrian traffic. Joe lived an ace more one room, trailer located on the south fence, the near residential development to the palate company is approximately two blocks away on this particular night, apparently his wife men, duties included, inviting Rita camper back to his trailer, greeted the bar yes

rita had joined Joe at the trailer on at least one other occasion. Now I dont know the particulars of that visit, but I do know the particulars of this one and it goes like as Joe invited Rita back to join him at the trailer with the promise of drinks and cocaine, while at some point Joe starts attacking Rita, she manages to get out of the trailer she raced towards the front gate, but Joe is chasing after her rita camper reached the gate, but it was locked when she and around to look for another way out Joe had caught up to her any puncher. His big fan at fist smashing into her jaw rendering her unconscious then dragged her back into the trailer by her hair. Joe had read a bank in the trailer he pinned her down, which is probably pretty see for him once he got on

up over to hold her down. I mean he's almost three hundred pounds at this time. I don't know the size this poor woman, but I'm guessing she's out sized by quite a bit, once pin down Joe starts pulling down. Readers genes, she start screaming Joe yells at her. And she's yelling at Joe, but jos, terribly worried about the screams, because, where this is located where the trailers located this lot is it's likely that any one would hear her, especially at this hour of night, like you said, there's no pedestrians, walking walkin by correct and there's no business being conducted in this area at this hour and Rita, begs Joe to stop attacking her. He ignores or starts praying out loud in jos reaction this well, he he finds us to be funny, then Joe tells Rita. He's, going to rape her and when he's done, he's going to kill her and once she is

he is going to bury her in the woods with the other girls. Rita camper disk is that she is not going to die not that night, not by the hands of this loser. Will she kicking and she kicked her legs out of her pants. Remember he was trying to pull. Pants off and he she rolled underneath of job as he was trying to keep her pin down this rolling allows her to break free, now she's on her feet and she sprinting out of the trailer and looking for a way out of the fenced in yard. Now Joe is and he's running after her, and he still got her pants in his hand, a ran toward one of several large stacks of palates. Now there are hundreds, of course, these palates they're, probably you know, piles and, acts of these things all along the fences, Rita is climbing one of these stacks Joe runs up to the stack she's. Climbing

and he's trying to grab her ass. She continues to climb where this is like a scene out of a horror. Movie Rita feels jos and nearly grab her ankle. She gets the top of the stack and she'd leaps jumping over the top of the fence. She slipped to the ground, but thankfully, on the other side of the fence from Joe math any she gets back. Honor and runs down the hill screaming and waving her hands she's trying to flag down a vehicle. Then she he's the lights of an approaching car. Am I wrong. I mean, I think, the ending of the first text joint chainsaw massacre right waving down a vehicle. Yeah. I mean you have this woman who it seems like if you, if you looked in this area, it would feel like there was nothing around this trailer and nothing around this fenced in palette yard, she's, basically trapped with inside that fence-

figure out this masterful way to get out leaping over the fence and now she's free, but Don't get this maniac inside the fence trying to get to? and you just one little bananas and blow and you're jumping over fences well, she's outside the fence, she's trying to flag down a car. She sees a car. This car starts a slow down in to her surprise, it's a police officer. She tells the officer what has just happened and how she was attacked. In how Joe had told her tat, he was going to rape and kill her the officer drives the hill and around to the front of the gate, Joe, is inside the fence, here the gay and in his hands. He still has a hold of readers pants. The officer orders, joe out and into his car Joe spent the night in jail and he was going to be charged with assault, kidnapping and attempted rape, but that

Here is a captain. They didn't hold him long. He was. going to have to stay in jail for very long to wait for the trial round and Also knows where his victim ino goes to hang out. He knows prior friends, maybe knows where she lives. He had I I'm guessing. She won't be returning to the borderline bar anytime soon, especially with him being out, so they while pointing out that the police are not protecting her right, Andy and up releasing him it's just a day or two after this attack so enjoy, well gets out. Guess where he is, captain goes the bar. That's right! He's right! at the borderline bar sitting on a stool drinking southern comfort and beer telling jokes, not too long after being released from jail, Joe, is back at the bar, and on this point they're, not he's hanging out with a guy named William ash, brook junior now william works with Joe at the palate company there

at the borderline bar most of them. Boozing it up Joe invites. Will im back to the trailer just to be clear. There is no crime or shame in that and boozing it up with with your buddy from the pallet company. No, I mean it's been at a bar and busan, right right, so Joe invites William back to the trailer they get to that taylor and they start snorting cocaine. That's across cook. Had he thanks for the clear for gay lets you now and after You snorts Joe ask william for a favor joe go now almost choked him a beer Joad else, william that he needs help in the line. After a few lines. After a few snorts, you snorts, we're change were changing the lingo after a few snorts continue Joe s goin william for a favor. He once help moving a body

any things. May maybe William would help him with this, William. Things Joe is messing around with him. He doesn't believe Joe, so jody takes william into the woods and Joe starts, pushing way, debris and trash, and underneath this debris in trash sure enough. There is a rotting nude body of a dead woman, william else joe the he's going to vomit and he's not going to help him move the body yeah he does offer to go, get more cocaine. yeah, and I I wonder when he's saying: hey look I'm going to puke. I can't help you wonder what joe's demeanor was at this time. Was he getting angry at him? The sense you know did he feel threatened like if I don't help him you gonna attack me yeah yeah. It makes you wonder, and I almost feel like we have method. He at this point that gets probably so much beer and southern comfort and cocaine em. He might

and be very casual about. This whole thing gave a you why One go help me move this body. Why, like this little escape and that that william has here he's like I'm not to hell, move the body, but I'll go, get some more cocaine for both of us. Well with this he leaves- and he does not come back that night, the neck day. I'm not sure if this is at work. Remember they worked together or if this was at the bar after work, but william ask Joe about the body that he was asked to help move Joe play. dumb and acts like he doesn't know. What william is talking about right well, william starts to get scared of his friend Joe. He starts getting scared of this stuff that he knows he starts thinking. You know if, if I how about this dead body. That Joe showed me maybe I'm, the only one that knows about it well, Joe, could easily take me

and the nobody knows about this body. Right venture, eventually, just within a couple of days william reports, the story to the police. On december fifteenth nineteen. Ninety six approximately one? Forty, a m members of the baltimore city police department and an fbi taskforce arrest, Joe methods, get this. They arrested Joe at the Joe stein and sons company christmas party, and it does take them long to find a dead body just ten feet from the trailer that Joe slept in they find body of a woman who is wrapped up in a red tarp, and that would be the body I'm assuming the dead body would later be identified as Kimberly lynn spice are aged, twenty six so after he is arrested. A baltimore police officer transported him to the homicide unit of the police department. During

course of the investigation of the recovered body of Kim spicy Joe gave several statements, two detectives, but he starts telling about someone other than Kim spice, he tells he met a woman about two years ago, describe the woman as possible having brown hair, her build a court to Joe was she was a little thin and she was a little tall in stature. He believes this would have been one night back in July. Nineteen. Ninety four joe is very judgmental. He says that It would have been around eight or nine p m that night. He tells officers they I took this woman to his trailer located at the palate company and while in, is trailer. He had sex with her while she was partially clothes. She had in his trailer for approximately one hour when Joe started to strangle her, when the detective asked

oh method, he, how did you strangle her? Did strangle her with your hands method. He responded. with my hands. The detective further question did use anything else to which he answered I use in an extension cord. I took the end of the court and strangled her to clare. Why he saying that he choked her with his hands until she passed out once she passed out, he put the x Jim quarter round her neck and killed her, then, according to you, oh he drug her back into the woods, then buried her in a shallow grave. He then took her purse enclose. And buried them in a separate location. Now we said that job did not know the woman's name, but he gave ident information stating that he believed that the victims first name was possibly cathy and that she was proximately, five foot! Six to five seven and about a hundred

only two hundred and thirty pounds. She was also missing a couple of upper front teeth. She had been wearing cut off genes, white tennis, shoes- and a white pull over sweater and she had a purse with her and, like you said his he's. Basically having on the property of his work and its offensive property, and so it's a big area, but outside that fences, where he's been bearing these individuals yet others is that wooded area so he's going to draw a diagram of what he can? You know best remember to try to help them locate this victim. Yes, they are there the look for where he buried the body, he says it would in a shallow gravy, said approximately two feet deep. He further stated that when he buried her she was not dressed. Additionally, Yo indicated that after the body had been buried for about six months, he went back to the burial. Ok,

and dug up and removed the skull afterwards he threw the skull and a trash box. Why? Why did you do that? I mean. Does it say yet? Well, he, in his words, Actually I should I should clarify. I dont know if these are his words maybe a reporter cleaned it up right, but from the report that I read. He dug up the skull. They had been there for approximately six months. Clean did and then made love to romantic yeah and then he he threw the skull and a trash box. The box contain The skull was later removed from that location and transported to according to Joe Oxford pencil. Ain't, so he must know where this trash is being sent to an basis. he's telling you you're going to fight This body, roughly in this area, the diagram that I drew you're gonna, find naked woman, headless, snakelike, naked woman law.

So if you live in this work, compound basically and you know when trashes weaving, then this is a great way for you to be oda, hide evidence He should have probably put the whole thing in the you know in this trash box. It would have been transported far away. right, but for whatever reason he felt more comfortable bearing her in that shallow grave in the woods so, the next day the police took Joe in cops in shackles back to the palate company, escorted by detective penny. and this is one of the detectives it was involved in the questioning of Joe. They took him there for the purpose of winning out where he had buried the female victims. This show is sponsored by better help. How much time are you spending on yourself every week,

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come slash garage today to get ten percent off your first month. That's better help, h e lp, dot com, slash garage, fine, more balance, with better help. In new orleans, twenty twelve burst catch. Here I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist ass. He stood in the park What were the address should have been? He was shot and killed. I'm You d umbra join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die the motive behind bruces murder a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now. Binge all fourteen episodes of or clock season. Five, wherever you listen to pod. this year is going by so fast fathers day is coming up in this year. Give your dad a gift that is truly unique and meaningful. A gift that will make him he'll special and loved give him story worth store,

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but if you look up some reports, they will say Joam. Athena road is actually Joe method me yeah. We got that from local baltimore report, so him being from baltimore we're going with that with that pronunciation. So, where we left captain they had returned Joe to the palate company and hopes of finding this buried female victim. That Joe had told the investigators about now. On that first day, the search team unsuccessful in locating the body. Joe could not seem too. Show them the right spot and there had been a good. he'll of rain around that time. So they brought in cadaver dogs to pick up a cent. However, possibly due to all this rain, they were unable to find the location so

finding nothing, they had to call off the search and then later again get permission to remove Joe from the baltimore city, detention centre, with permission granted, detective pennington, again transported Joe back to the Joe stein and sun palette company to assist locating the body this time after some hesitation method, he indicated two detectives: there's an area approximately just ten feet from a pre, the location that he had pointed out to them. Ok, so bring in the excavation team right. The team use techniques to carefully on earth, the remains- and they were exactly exactly in the condition that Joe said that they would be the doktor at the excavation site noted that the cranium was missing, The skeletal remains were recovered from a very shallow grave and transported to the office of the chief met.

Go examiner where later with dental records, the remains were found to be that of catherine magaziner and Catherine would have been forty five at the time of her murder. Yet- and I know it's a bit confusing captain, because we see that the cranium was missing, but remember the body and buried for approximately six months. So when Joe dug up the body and The score. The lower jaw by this time had already fallen off the lower jaw all was located with the rest of the body and that's what they used to get. The dental records are also got me out to determine that Joe was telling the truth when he said that her death was by strangulation. Yes, and here's a little thing here Joe, was asked why he had killed cathy. He said that it gave him a sense of power, stating I dont know I got a rush out of it. I got high out of it adding call it

You want, I had no real excuse other than I like to do it. I dont know how to describe it. So captain we have this man, we have him he's locked up, he's been arrested. We found to bodies he's attacked another woman. They got away, thankfully, sir, oh, who is this guy's got so we, but we found the one that wasn't buried as the one that he try to get his co worker to help him very yes that was the body came spice her. She was wrapped up in a red, tarp yeah, and then we found Catherine. She is buried. Buried in that wooded areas near the palate, company both died of same cause, believed to be strangulation and both both death. Yes, and then we have an attack on was the reader camper who was attacked, and got away. Now. One thing

want to point out your captain regarding the cause of death with these two women is that Joe, unfortunately, he he when he attacked these women, he beat them quite a bit. As well, so they would have seen injuries on the bodies to indicate that as well, so Who is this guy that we have locked up? You know what can we figure out about his background? while we can tell that he's a real piece of shit. Well, I was born in baltimore county, but lived in west virginia from the ages of two to six later, according to Joe pay attention that, according to Joe, he was shuffled among foster homes and the baltimore area. He completed the eighth grade, but he earned his high school equivalents, equivalency and studied physics for a year and half while in the army, where he was a field artillery soldier

nineteen seventy three to nineteen. Seventy five. He was honourably discharged after that he worked various jobs, including a shipyard, a liquor distributor and he also a long haul truck driver for some time method. He spent about twenty years in a world few people ever see. He drifted in and out of baltimore cities, homeless, camps, composed of filthy tents and sleeping bags, and bridges and over sewer gratings for a while. He lived in row houses under the patapsco river bridge and homeless community called tent. City then later in nineteen. Eighty eight he began working at the Joe stein and sons company, where he lived in the trailer at the palate company now at the palate company captain? According to his coat where's joe math any he made. People laugh. They said he would joke about anything and his.

Ass at work stated he was a pretty smart guy. He would come up with solutions to problems stating that if we had a problem, he would be the one that would come up with a way to figure it out, but these same coworkers described a complex personnel. the many of them saying in one respect. He is a gentle giant that they nickname tiny standing more than feet tall weighing almost three hundred pounds, stating that he loves to draw large cartoon characters and play video games. So he sounds kind of like a big kid abbot enough, with the saw with wouldst call the big guy time Let's come up with some better names. That does happen a lot, but but here's where the common personality comes into play. They state that he also had a temper and at times it threatened co workers and also through patrons of the bar, where he hung nearly every night playing pool, does right, but does it so what kind of threats khazars difference between

hey man, I'm going to kick your ass and a man I'm going to kill you, I don't have any cigarettes, I don't have any specifics. Just co workers stating that they were aware that he had threatened them at times as well as people at this bar. What and I think also because you're living at your job, then you know that you know if you make the threats and then your employer comes down on you? Not only d lose your job. You lose your home well here. so drink very heavily. According the people at new em. They believe that he went through a bottle of southern comfort, whisky, each and every night, whether it be at the bar or back at the run down trailer. There was furnished simply with two chairs a couch in a television set, an electric heater He Joe had surrounded the trailer was stacks of pilots

Then he told his attorney that he was one of six children born into a poor family and that he was neglected as a child and shuffled off to foster homes. By his parents and telling his attorney by the time of his arrest, both his parents were dead, ok captain? As you know, we are about to get into our first discrepancy in this serial killer profile case because here we try, as we did with body and John Gacy to study their crimes, their backgrounds and their words to try to get a better sense of who these killers are, why they did what they did in. What made them this way now, Joe, I wouldn't consider to be a human in any sense that we can see the crimes that we have already discussed, you can see he's just an evil waste of life, but when we look at Jos crimes, his background especially his words to try to figure him out. This is where,

you run into one major problem, Joe would later in life. Tell us a lot about his crimes and background, but at some point we have to start wonder how much of this that he is telling us is true among their things. He told his lawyer that his mother was dead, which came as a surprise to his mother. He as both of his parents are dead, while presto chango, captain Joe's mom is alive. So not only did he that wrong or lie, but his mother's recollections contradict sum of jos statement. Alright, so what does his mother say? His mother was tracked down by a reporter at her home and mark liese burg, pennsylvania. Her name is Jean met any At the time of this, she was seventy eight years young, when the rapporteur, too her down. She, you mean old, yes, well, both Would she was told that her son Joe described her as dead? She responded.

maybe he just wishes. I was right adding that he pushed his Emily away a long time ago, jean method, he described her son growing up to be a normal boy saying he was smart and he had a good childhood. She said this and this next statement should shouldn't. Make me laugh, but it does genes. If Joe was neglected, it was his own fault for high. That's just doesn't seem weirder what it sounds, neglectful yeah, if you are neglected at your own, damn fault dear. She said their home was a pretty good one, adding that none of her children were ever placed and other homes, but a vote wasn't that get home at your own. Damn fault in wrath. Any she said her husband was a labour. The two of them struggle to make ends meet.

Move to the north point boulevard area of essex. Shortly before Joe method, he was born when Joe was six. His father was killed in a car accident. She said his death was very very hard on the family gene to work to support the family. She said that she did everything she could to keep the children together and the years after her husband's death jean says she worked as a waitress. Barmaid and as a canteen truck driver who delivered luncheon to workers at sparrows point shipyard. She said she could not be with her fan every single minute of the day, but it was a normal family, She said we weren't rich, but we always had something to eat and we always had a roof over our heads and then becomes a difficult situation because the father at that time, especially in that time period, he probably was the breadwinner and now she's gonna, have to take on these jobs and a lot

and you'd see that the mother would stay at home and raise the the children why the father can focus on his career, and so she might not build up some of those skills, so she would have to take on jobs like being a waitress or something that wouldn't payer as much per hour. So she wouldn't be work in that normal forty hour weeks. Be organ sixty hours a week will not only that cabin. I'm guessing that when she mentions that she has. You know at times worked as a waitress are barmaid or the truck driver right. I'm so wondering because they have six children and she's a single parent if at all of those times, if she was working more than one of those jobs together now that's what I mean, I'm assuming that she's working anywhere from sixty to seventy hours right and you know is that a normal childhood for some people yeah. But you know you have six kids, then, where did they go? Whose watching them

Yeah, and I mean I don't mean to attack jean, not no, not at all, not away, but I do question where, where I hear her say that she's work all these jobs. It seems like maybe neglected, is not that big of a stretch wall now because, in her defence she's doing everything we can to put food on the table, keep the lights on. So that's not you not act right right. Maybe that's the wrong word. What what I'm getting at those we have one parent gone who pass The way I have to say that we have another that they may not yet home, hardly ever and we all know how tough it can be to live in it, a single parent home and then, as especially in this time, to have a single mother home. You know, so I applaud her for putting the family on her shoulders and trying to

Which can she did go on to tell us that she and the family never went on welfare and she remembers her son Joe as an avid bike writer and an above average student and adding He was always polite. Well, if you going at home. Trying to keep track of Jos lie These are truths and so dad dead, yes, check, mom, not dead, no check for Joe, but may be dead in his mind. She did agree that, ah, that Joe, it served. Do you know that Joe spent time serving this great country in our nations military and gives some detail stating that when he turned eighteen and nineteen, seventy three joe enter army and was stationed in germany where he met a woman that he seemed to be very close to. We don't have any more information on this woman, but she brings him up her up for some reason. Joe.

method, he told his attorney that he served in vietnam and became addicted. Heroin during his tour of duty and the artillery unit drain. But his Others said that she does not recall him having served in vietnam. The articles were I found this information stated that the military records for Joseph Athena were not available when they wrote this, I was able to confirm if he had actually served in the war or if he was just stay in germany like his mother had set. But then here thou two's mean if, if the death of the father was really tough on the phone, me and then you again you have six kids and then I mean is there any truth to the whole foster care thin, that seems to be an item that they can agree on. She stayed

that she did everything she could to keep the children together where believing that they did that shirt? That's what that's why I find her statement strange because she wasn't. She doesn't definitively say the kids were at my house and in my care when she says, she did the best that she could to keep the children to gather ryan. So he goes off and to the army. Maybe he served, maybe didn't. Maybe she doesn't know because they weren't that close afterwards. I do think is she did at some point definitively say that they did not live at any other hopes, but it seems like a now mind you she seventy eight when she's giving this interview. So some of these answers seem a little bit of a round about of getting to them now once he had left her home. This is according to his mother. Joseph seldom called or wrote to his mother

the relationship. She said eventually disintegrated and the two didn't speak for about ten years, stating that he just kept drifting, further and further away, and she does agree that Joe at some point developed a drug problem. Here's one thing. I wonder about captain if they have spoken so long. and I really wonder about jos drug issues. I think, I think he was a severe alcoholic and probably very addicted to drugs right. And I'm I'm betting, that this had gone on for quite some time, leading up to the point of his arrest with his mother seventy eight and them not having spoke for so long. Do you think where the public would later called Joe, a liar for stating that his mother's dead do you think, there's any as a he may have just thought she was dead. The hidden keep track

Whither, I mean you're talking about a guy that he went. He woke up in the morning, probably hung over as hell and went and worked as a forklift operator and then once to the bar every night after work, where he got wasted, drunk and would do drugs he could get his hands on them and then wake up and repeat the same thing. The next day. We're not talking about something that keeping tabs on family members or or or any kind of normal light for no contact for ten years. So maybe at some point he's either just assuming or like. I said I think more of that is psychologically that she's dead to me, let's yeah yeah. I agree with that, And- and I I obviously he has some issues with women while let's get to the trials regarding the charges that Joe is sing. He was first charge with the attack on rita camper, we'll call her the one that got away this one

be a very tough trial, though it shouldn't be at all I mean we have a living witness, slash victim and ran directly from the attack and fled into the arms of a police officer. So we have her testimony and we have the police off. His testimony as well, regarding the does the arrest in any evidence found in both. So that's an easy case. Joe gets fifty years It seems good that feels good right. Captain it's fifty years for their attack the attack on rita camper on the on the the woman that thankfully got away from it, The thing here is when I was when I was right, down this sentence that he got sentence to fifty years? Something Italy popped in my head, and I have to bring this up with you because I know you're you're a fan I recently read one of robert kessler: I'm sorry rabbit wrestlers books. Inspire, to do so because of

the show mine hunter on Netflix you and I both loved the mind hunter I didn't love at first. I thought it was like the first sub soda at that, the main care was again I'm not really into this guy by the second episode am a huge car guy, even though I own a garage and the cards in the show from the time period, and then it was his partner, the old school car, the old school detective bill yeah bill. He grew on me and much like the captain would grow on you know, but then, by like the third episode, I was in love with everybody. I, and I just think it's an amazing- show the first I'm getting a little off track. You're. The first episode opens up hostage scene where the the hostage shaker blown his own head off. In that hey, I was hopes raised at a

like a squirrel. It's it's a season. Long thing, that's like the first ten minutes of the hay boiler So here s a hate mail tears a nail. I was real, I'm garage dot com as reading look by robert ressler and the reason why did this is I'm not certain? I'm not one hundred percent certain, but you had Jim. The older agent bill right eventually recruits holding to the bs you right I believe bills character is based off of the real life person robert wrestler so having watch this. It inspired me to go back and read one of wrestlers books and in one of them this is not a direct quote, but trot May this very close he's talking about she criminals and, of course, throughout his career. He has faced been involved in conviction in the conviction process of probably the absolute worst people you can imagine. He says in his book, unfortunately, that we live in a time where the sun.

Tens of death doesn't always mean death, life doesn't, we mean life in twenty five years can mean twelve or even six, Just keeping that in mind, I think, is important here, because I I'm quick two to go where we're taking a man, that's in his fortys and were giving him fifty years in prison, and that's the same is locking him up and throwing away the key word, in reality. It's absolutely not so very important that we have these other two trials for Joseph the thing you need to face justice for them as of these other two women, the second and the third trial will be different because in those trials Joe is charged with murder and facing the death penalty and each of the cases the first murder trial is for the murder of twenty three year old kimberly spice her joe was possibly facing the death penalty, because the prosecutor was choice.

Seeing him with not only murder but with robbery and sexual assault. It was necessary for the project prosecution to prove. robbery or sexual assault. In addition to the murder, in order to get that death penalty under marilyn law, defence lawyers called a surprise witness in an effort to help Joe avoid the death sentence. This was baltimore homicide. detective homer pennington than we had mentioned earlier, the lead beside detective, who investigated the gruesome killing he was asked. Did mister methods discuss his necrophilia acts with you to which Pennington said? Yes, the lawyers this is. This is one of the strangest things I've ever come across in in in trials here, but the lawyers are trying to show that Joe does not deserve the death penalty because he did not commit an

relating crimes such as sexual saw. and then murder the woman. They called the detective to make a bizarre but important point that Joe preferred to have sex with dead. Women in necrophilia is not considered a crime in the state of maryland. Password is kind of just kind sit, and so that in for a minute miles be so listen this, that is to say, pause a trial by the way That's now a new law can can we get voters, they come out and just what this into and of the press. His immediate necrophilia should be a crime, yes everywhere s that right anyway, so his defence lawyers. They did not contest the claim that Joe prefer performed a sex act with spacers body, but this was, after her death

in fact. They added the methanol violated spice or with a bottle after she was dead, but they deny that he had ex with her while she was alive and well. another strange part to this trial. The defence attorneys considered calling spices mother to the stand as a witness on new car, her well. This is whether what this is, what strange about it Joe then persuaded them not to call her. He reportedly told the attorneys. Please do do this spices, mother- this is Cathy's. Kathy price was not called to the stand. So crazy me all these serial killers that have issues with their mothers wells over and over right. Yeah. but you're talking about? He did some horrible things to this kimberly spice right and then he he's it's almost psyche

to do what he did you you. Basically, I dont think you can have remorse. If you do what he did and then you did it again to somebody else. I don't see any any form of remorse there. However, crying at the trial when she when she's to be called in. Saying: hey, don't do this, then you start to question: is he remorseful see. You know sad about what he did. Is he sad for this victim for the mothers victim why things are the victim, of his mother, seeing that right at all, it's a matter of a mother, I'm trying to say the the victims mother. They may be felt bad for the victims. Mother not go ahead right, but I possibly, but also with the whole situation with his mother. You know he seems like some that stuck in his past and maybe by that brain in

being brought up to that forefront that maybe he the signals on weird but maybe on some way psychologically he's reverted back to a time where he wasn't this crazy piece of shit, yeah I mean back in time or maybe was a sweet shout he I mean yeah, that kind of goes. You know a lot of there's a lot of arguments. Are killers born you know, or they may are. Are they made it probably just more selfish than wanting to spare kimberly spices mother the agony of going on the stand is probably more selfish in just that. It bothered him that it made him upset, and he saying hey, don't do this right now, I did make a miss spoke earlier, captain kimberly spy There was stabbed twenty six times. That was the cause of her death. Joe was found guilty first degree murder in her horrific murder, but he was

the death penalty by the judge, who ruled that Joe did not rob or sexually assault the woman before he killed her now a day after escaping the death penalty, Joseph was and to spend the rest of his life in prison without the possibility of parole after the trial. Spices, mother said to reporters I'd like to ask him why he killed camp, but being that we will never really know he's just a killer and some people there is just evil, but did she ever ask him I don't think she ever had a conversation with with Joe outside of the court room one. He also liked right peoples, I don't know, but that would be a sign of remorse to write a letter to the victim's mother. I just don t as that in him.

Second murder. Trial took place about five months later and again, Joe is facing the death penalty. This time he is accused of killing Cathy magaziner, who was d cabot heard decapitated. He was found on the grounds of Joe Stein and sun palette company. Now he was, she was also decapitated, postmortem yes- and I should stop myself here and add that Joe was actually facing three murder charges and three separate case originally charge with two, but once those trials were set law enforcement. They then then identified a third body in connected it to this case. This was tony lynn and gracias. She was only twenty eight. Years old. At the time of her death, her father John described tony syn telling reporters that she was a good girl. She had some problems with drugs, but she was trying to get help and I hate to report this

but there is very little out there on this case. All that I could find is that she, She ok, so her body was found basically dumped on the side of a road and when he was arrested, they connected this case to him. I don't know what evidence they used connect him to this case. Guess sometimes use any evidence. They just go this guy's behind bar. Maybe he did this one. Well, and I'm kind of throwing this in, as aside know that he was charged with this third murder because eventually its thrown out they they dropped. The charge is due to insufficient evidence yet again. Take it to try right am I guess here is that Who is he connected to it? We may never know, but I know that her case is still unsolved. As far as I could see, if any and find any information on that make sure you postal our blog true crime, garage dot com, but I'm guessing captain it it's

both thing that she was probably running around in in circles that job may have been running around in possibly she may have had connections to that area that he was known to frequent right by this. Also, look you gone to the bar you're drinkin you're doing drugs now something my cocaine, that's a very social drug, so then you're circle becomes wider. Wider yeah, but not what I'm getting at is. I think it's just a simple thing that she fits the victim ology of bordeaux and He's he's locked up, he's, certainly capable of it. Let's go ahead and charge him with it. Meanwhile, we, find any evidence to support our theory. One also may their thought was hairless charge, Joe with it, because he's also guy that start speaking- true, and it could be as simple as hell. We believe that you're responsible for this murder of this young lady and he desgas yeah and

what happen yeah and then it's open and open and shut case. You know, I don't know it's clever. I didn't think of that. I didn't, because what does it hurt they get here was charge. Somebody else what exactly so enjoy Second, murder trial. The murder of key three magaziner? This should be pretty open and shut case as well, because remember just after Joe was arrested for came spices murder. Three days later, he led police to a shallow grave on the property which held the decapitated remains of cathy. Now one thing that I I want to point out here. Captain is why they have the person take them to the bar and we we know on it. Obviously, is this: on the surface that we need to locate this body right, so we can charge this individual with the actual murder was essentially a confession

Right, I mean well in what they had her over their right and but what they you. The reason why they bring a person like Joe to the actual body is the later. If he decides he wants to recant his confession, they can still say in court well, yeah. We can't use your confession against you, but the one that physically led us to this body may might like. I said it's almost like a second confession: none the donkey running away as actually some highlights from this trial. The final prosecution witness was an fbi agent. This James Fitzsimons sound, sounds like you have behind agent old james, fitzsimons. Worse for the b, I he told the beer

He told how the bureau had been investigating a range of alleged criminal activities coming from the Joe stein and sons company when they received a tip the method he had been harbouring. A corpse these are his words. now. The defence attorney, in my opinion, Joe, had very good counsel at his trial, which I was a little surprised. Forgive me out there. This is rubbing anybody the wrong way for me being surprised we're talking about a drug attic that has no money. I mean he was working making seven or eight dollars an hour as a forklift operate getting paid an extra twenty dollars. A week blowing all of his money on drugs and alcohol on these crimes are horrendous and he is confessing to them and multiple ways. So what great defends a turn he's gonna step up and say: maybe I hope this guy and of and these are is that you're gonna lose? You know, you're gonna lose them yes in, but from his attorneys

actions, I I'm just say, I'm giving it a great day. I think that he had good representation, yet another representation and like Adnan, sad and well, unlike said: these are losing cases so your whole. Your whole battle ground here is to make sure he doesn't get killed. He doesn't get the death penalty, so that's what probably why they jumped on board is properly that is against the death penalty. That's trim should not be an hour lugosi thumb and they said hey, you know what I'm going to step up and I'm going to defend that principle, not defend this monster, but I'm just going to try to get it. You know where he does get the death penalty. His attorneys name was margaret mead if I'm giving her a great age, should least mention her name One thing she did during the course of the trial was she question the ep I agent about payments that the api b I made to the owner son of the palate, company yeah,

They also make payments to this. William ash. Brook. Remember he, the guy that had called it had told police this I asked me to help move a body for it. Okay, so it goes like this. They she brought up a report that showed the ep. I had spent approximately twenty five thousand dollars on ash brooks behalf. This was they pay him to go to a drug the habilitation programme they paid for, while didn't pay him to go. there, they paid for the programme itself and they cover his rent for some time, while he went into hiding as a cooperating witness the fbi, also reimbursed the owner of a house where ash broke had once stayed, and the owner accused him of stealing tools valued at five thousand dollars. I dont fault them for doing that. I mean because, at the end of the day, there guinea evidence, but there also not just hand in this guy money, they're trying to straighten up disguised life and they

I said: hey, look. You have a drug problem, ya got drunk prop problem. Pay for four you help us and cooperating with us we're going, try get you clean right and we're gonna do by sending you to rehab, but we're also going to pay your rent for awhile. So you have nothing to worry about, while you're in hiding from this three hundred and some pounds, you know monster of a dude yeah, the the. I also spent about ninety four thousand dollars to relocate Joe stein, junior and his family. After he began cooperating with the investigation, while that's a little excessive. I think that, yes, oh they're kind of their kind of protecting these people from a guy. It's locked up, I'm nothing, that's wrong! I'm pointing out something that I found interesting in the trial. I guess the the attorney was passed

lee trying to imply that they paid these two in some form to testify against her client. I is acting as a reasonable arguments whether or not you can prove. That is another thing. I think it's fair to bring up in the course of the trial council also was asking the jury to spare the death penalty because Joe was addicted to drugs and that the slayings occur. while he was under the influence of heroin, cocaine or alcohol, and putting out the joe has a good deal of remorse for what he has done. His attorney stated that Joe said he wanted the killings to stop. She added that he's very polite, respectful and intelligent. He stands far more than most people. It's very indicative that when he is under the influence of various narcotics that that is when there seems to be applied.

nowadays, change Joe himself described this as a rage that comes forward through drugs. He described this as being very frustrated with his life, being very frustrated too about how I grew up in all of the life experiences he had had yet Joe method seems like a guy. It's stuck in a prison of his past yeah in the thing captain is this. You know I went through a couple. The quote unquote highlights of the trial, My strangest thing that happened in the trial was after Joe was found guilty. This is where Joe decides to address the jury, and the mean this cannot be a smart move at all, but you you can't make this guy stop right he addresses the jury and I'm not gonna give any direct quotes, but he starts tell

them that they should kill him. They should sentence him to death because he is not sorry for what he has done. He will never be sorry for what he done. He then goes on to describe digging up the skull of one of his victims, saying that he, I love to it now then he's allowing the jury that he is happy to go to hell for his crimes and he talked about when he will win the medical examiners had proof. formed the autopsy on another one of his victims that they had found and that she had in this is his terrible words here this She had given birth to a bouncing baby beer bottle. That was his way of this I the bottle the medical examiner had found. So he was facing the death penalty and I'm here

the report that he got the death penalty, yeah kind of weird thing, though, because he comes out he confesses than he cries at trial maybe shows some sign of remorse, and maybe he was smart enough to know if I am sure if I'd addressed the job, freeze, and maybe it was a simple as this person's trying to defend me, but their only trend defend me because I don't want the death penalty and they don't even the death penalty, but they don't give a shit about me and you know well I hate women, so fuck her to you, I mean and I'm ammo, throw this whole trial right below possible or he's saying I have to live with myself and I'm such a gigantic. pile of dogma, newer that I want to live anymore somewhere, save these horrible things, whether or not you know that's the first summit, the site,

you know, does he believe in what he same or does he not its power? probably a suicide wish from him. I could see that with the depressing statements he's made over the years. One thing, though I question, is every one that describes Joe. They describe him as a smart and an intelligent man right. Here's what I your captain, having already receive fifty years for kidnapping, and then a life without the possibility of parole sends in the first murder trial. Oh and then add that now he's face, The death penalty again and he's been convicted but but not sentenced. He goes to the jury, puts, on this whole crazy role. I wonder if that was some plan in sight of him. Had that he's like well. Maybe I can convince these people that I'm crazy that, during the course of this trial, gonna show that I'm remorseful have my attorney pole.

now that I'm remorseful, but I was addicted to drugs and the drugs caused me to kill people when it's all said and done, if I have my last card to play- is the crazy card, and I mean nobody in their right. Mind would get up and say the things that he said to the jury. So what are you said he's a man. He is not human, yes in it, but but I have so many questions about Joe, though, because he's also these guys are comes off is defiant to the end. For me, maybe this is, It's the oh! Well, you got me, there is nothing I can do about it. So I'm going to rub your faces in it for awhile. Why? I can't until tomorrow be good.

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