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Garage Refill /// Boys on the Tracks /// Part 2

2022-10-11 | 🔗

Boys On the Tracks /// Part 2 /// 94


By all accounts, the engineer did a masterful job of bringing his train to a stop. It had taken a screaming, screeching half mile. By the time the engine shuddered to a standstill, Conductor Jerry Tomlin was on the radio notifying an approaching train on a parallel track to stop because some boys had been run over. He also called the dispatcher. "Have you got injuries?" The dispatcher asked. "No," Tomlin said. "We've got death." -From "The Boys on the Tracks" by Mara LeverittTonight we discuss the case that many wanted to keep quiet. Two teenagers are run over by a train in the middle of the night. Was it an accident, a double suicide or a double murder? Join us in the garage for the tragic story of the boys on the tracks.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Have you ever been so enthralled with a podcast that it stays with you long after the episode ends. There's an apple tv plus original series called truth, be told truth be told, follows poppy scoville, a true crime. Podcast host. Dives deep into our stories, even after her mike stops, recording whence teenage girls. Mysteriously vanish poppy vows to find them and bring the people responsible to justice. featuring academy award winner, Octavia, spencer, Gabrielle union and macao, pfeiffer truth be told, stream, the new season now exclusively on apple tv plus bedtime, is rough even for peanut, its white people will try anything to fall. Asleep had stands before bed even blowing bubbles, but actually has a trick that works every time. A new timber, peter mattress, it adapts to your bodies, needs to help. You follow
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welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing. Thanks for listening, I'm your whole snake in with me, as always, is the next sheriff of a beautiful little town called parts unknown. He is the captain Let me see your hands boy abc. I ask you to be seen in this group should see. Tonight in the garage we are drinking huntsmen, radio by barley, mo brewing company garage, great for and a quarter at a fast bottle caps, the sheriff approved. This is an imperial double red ale. That is not only happy and multi, but also smooth and sweet, and has a very beautiful red, color and huntsmen ready. I was brought to us by first up else captain, but in the beautiful little town of parts on knows per annum, we re in a hurry and by
in jeanette as well looks like it looks like all of you can spread them. It looks like the land parcels or filling up in parts under zone allotted tents next week have the niece who says that this is a five star pod yeah. Well, thank you denise for grading on a curve, and if you, to leave us five story: you go over to itunes. Intrigue treat This next one is from Lynn who says lots of love from little rock arkansas, much loved and last but not least, also a very big. Thank you to request in Minneapolis who is celebrating a birthday this month. So happy happy, happy birthday. Thank you all, pitching him for this week's beer fund and, if you want to buy us around for next week, show go to true gram, garage dot, com and click on the donate, but that kill gene Do you like to balls on interim step chap facebook twitter any of that stuff?
chrome garage: do you have any new music forest scabbed yeah, some people, cuba has me who did the music on that? One is the captain? It s still the captive. That's my job! Well, that's enough of the business. Let's get to the trailer everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer. Let's talk some true cry the first, is what you said and I come up I about time we notice Interests of flashlight come on, go back out. They weren't looking in our direction but to see the light, arabs,
it snuck up a little bit closer to seventh is going on and there was five individuals standing on the tracks pump in a stir. Curiosity is, its terminal tuesday terms than men to recognise. Two more individuals, it after we got there. We were walking down the railroad tracks, I had a rifle, then I looked at my flashlight There were more lives Mind your business when they realise someone else's on the tracks. They start someone motion come closer. Women were they hesitated eventually walking on towards the rest of the world
I had was turn sounded like a gunshot saw flash as you would expect, with a gunshot at night, we were pretty much terrified both of the other witnesses, corroborated that evidence. The this is part two of the boys on the tracks case. Captain should we do a little recap. Last time on to game grid In the early morning, hours of august, twenty third nineteen, eighty seven- this is in bryant arc and saw two boy were laying motionless on the train tracks and they were poor. it's over by the train. The investigation of their deaths falls into the jurisdiction of the saline county sheriff's office. Now that investigation has been called botched,
at best and where picks up from their the medical examiner. This is fahmy malik need takes over the case, and he asked investigate his ruling on the cause of the boys. Debt. he's gonna claim that the boys were high on marijuana and they passed on the train tracks than the train came and ran the boys over and that's the cause of death ruling it an accidental death for exactly correct, exactly So the parents of the two boys are obviously dissatisfied with the sheriffs investigation, as well as the man go examiners findings, so they schedule a press conference and its after this press conference. The grand jury is estate. Bush and the grand jury decides that they review the they review the evidence and they decide that the cause of death might not be accidental, that it's a possible homicide. They're gonna call for a second autopsy after the grand jury successfully got the latest autopsy. This was conducted by well renown, pathologist doctor
Burton now remember, he was from out of state he was actually from Lana because they they needed not only fresh eyes on this but they needed someone that would not have connections locally or at the state level, but also at the time atlanta and doktor burden had access to better technology. This is gonna change, their findings of the death not be an accidental, but by being murdered. Yes, let's, let's say correcting right because big, they just got it wrong from the beginning so from a possible homicide to a definite homicide and because the grand jury and the change in the correcting of the rulings of death, the investigation was then transferred to the jurisdiction of the arkansas state police. I say that because it's not only important to the telling of the story
In today's episode, we will be reviewing some statements that have been taken from the arkansas state police files from their investigation into the murders of sixteen year old, don Henry and seventeen year old kid, knives. This new investigation team has uphill battle because from the gate go it should have been investigated as a homicide, but it wasn't and they didn't do the due diligence and there was this investigated as a trap. Death correct and we even discussed items that they fail to collect at the scene. That may have had value towards pointing towards any kind of of evidence, and before we get to the timeline, we need the kind of discuss going on in the drug munifi in this town, cocaine and other drugs were flowing into the city of little rock arc and saw in the smaller communities that surrounded it as well. This is coming from central america via the freeways that connected miami los angeles and dallas, but they were coming
by all forms of transportation. By the time of nineteen eighty seven, the movers would place cocaine on trains and it would be dropped at designated drop spots. This was also coming in by airplane as well and not too far from the tracks where the boys were found. There's a airport cut the men at airports. And this was known by many to be trafficking. Drugs in word, landing near the airport. Under the cover of night, without using their lights, they were. ending sitting briefly and taking off again without cutting off their engines, the state police. Was aware that this was going on so to combat this. They started parking vehicles near the airport. Well, the air I started adjusting what they were doing. They picked out different locations and now there then landing, they were just kind of buzzing, the fields getting real low about a hundred feet off the ground and dropping things from the planes. Obviously,
we have Kevin ives and we have done henry. Those are the two boys that were found on the tracks the dallas get into some the other key players. Yes first person that we will introduce is a man by the name of Jeff. Roads he's a young, and that was interviewed by investigator don birdsong, and this is from the state police files bird songs report. This is in an interview with a young man that birdsong does not identify in his notes, but his notes state that the wednesday before the boys were killed. Some one had contacted this man looking to buy an ounce of cocaine, this being possibly roads, the buyer. This guy was unable to obtain the cocaine, so he contacted don henry don and Kevin met with the buyer, and they said that the could get coke from dawns connections, and now this connection is not mentioned as well. Born mine you that don Henry was sixteen years old at this time in another,
interview with the state police, this is with Don Henry sister gala gale stated that dawn had been at the home of alleged drug dealer to purchase marijuana on the thursday or friday before he was killed. She had also heard dont say that he knew quote the ultimate dealer unquote. He didn't give a name to this person, but he said that the dealer worked out of little rock arkansas when we have evidence that the boys were spoken pot, so they gotta get that from somebody. I've been on pot runs right, see you go into the house just because the guy cells- maybe all he does a cell pot, but he might sell other things
and another statement. This is from Chris ballard, who was at one time married to dawn sister. He says that he saw dawn on the thursday before dawns death don said that he was going to steal some cocaine. Chris also said that dog had mentioned something about this ultimate guy working out of little rock arkansas and one of the investigators notes. This is investigator, dawn bird song. These were entered into the file in the summer of nineteen. Eighty nine- and this is in regards to a conversation with a confidential informant stating that dawn and Kevin had overheard a phone call between the dealer and an unidentified individual about a large drug drop near the area of the train tracks. Sergeant barney, philips interviewed a friend of dawn and Kevin's and said that the night that they had died, he was
at a party at a mobile home and the two of them drop by before leaving this party. He said that they had told him that they were going to go, get some cocaine, so they could sell it and make a bunch of money. Now listen, a deuce key, saucony Keith coney is a young man, he's a an acquaintance of dawn and Kevin's Keith's mother, Betty alexander, reported to a drug task force officer that her son had told her that he knew something about the ives and henry deaths, but he wouldn't explain to her what now Keith would go on and tell his father and some of his friends that he had been out that night. We want, unless you know the not to interrupt, but they use pretty close with his mother. He was afraid to tell her correct. Yes, like severely afraid, but in a moment
and he, I think he was afraid to tell his father as well wasn't like he just came out with this information old willy nilly. Now he wasn't just running around town telling anybody that would listen. This was something that he was was burning inside of him, but he was afraid to talk about it, but I also think possibly you know, I haven't been in that father role, that if, if my son or my stepson would have said, I know something, but I don't want to tell you I would have made him tell me you know, because because I can't I can't try to protect you. If I do, I don't know what you know: yeah yeah, while Keith had told his father, and he had told some friends that he had been out that night with don and Kevin
this being the night of their deaths, and he stated that they were out near show road where they were approach by two police officers. In a vehicle now at this time, Keith is on his motorcycle at this point and he states that he fled the scene and he believed that the boys were attacked and possibly killed by those two police officers, and so he saw them being attacked and he fled yet attack. Yet he was. He was hanging out with the two boys and, as the officers approached he he took off. He got out other months after having telling his father about the story involving the police
Keith coneys mother, Betty Alexander she's, at the local prison visiting her other son eugene coney. Now, while she's there, she meets a man by the name of MIKE crook by crook, as a former manager of jijiu, which is a night club on the county line. Mike had told betty about a jijiu customer who frequented the club and an incident that the customer had said he had seen at a small groceries, or near shrove road. This is located in the general area of the train tracks where the boys were found on the night of their deaths. He was parked at the store close to the railroad tracks waiting for his wife. That's what this statement says. There's actually another statement says he believed that his wife was running around on him, so he had park. They are hoping to catch her in the act
being with a boyfriend or being with another man. To imagine the sitting out, then apart, dark car waiting for your significant other to possibly be with somebody else. I wouldn't waste my time things. at this point I wooden waste my time. Well, while the man is there, an crook will refer to this man as jerry, and he says that jerry saw three teenagers, one of them was on a motorcycle, and then he saw two officers arrive at the scene. These boys were their smoking pot as what he believed that they were doing so one can assume that as Keith puny on his motorcycle and
is also dawn and Kevin and they're all kind of hanging out smuggling or pop. Yes, yes, crook would say that jerry does not identify the boys by name, but he did in telling cook this story. He did say. I believe that two of those boys could have been. The boys were found that, while right- but this is this- proven that his story makes a lot of sense with key story. Jerry then sees what he believes to be a police car pull up, and at this time he says that one of the boys hops on the motorcycle and takes off now some kind of interaction goes badly between these police officers. In the two remaining boys he sees, an altar occasion breaks out and during the course of this he basically says that he sees the police officers beating the shit at the remaining two boys and afterwards they throw the kids into the back of the patrol car, the man jerry. He tells crook this story back at Jijii night club. At some point,
and after discussing the story, crook tells him. You know what that's probably you're, probably right, those replied. The two boys were found that night and you really should report this now Mary was a little hesitant to do so because he saw police officers what he believed to be police officers. You know abusing some citizens right right, and so he convinces jerry to report. This jerry does go in report. This situation to the sheriff's office, Jerry is immediately thrown in jail or he's thrown in jail for back child support and they keep him in jail, for the mandatory sentence of ninety days that he was to serve after the ninety days. This jerry person immediately leaves town now why do we keep referring to him as jerry? Well, it's because crook in the statement refuse to name the guy right, just stating that his name was
jerry and he looked. He looked kind of mexican was the best description that he would give about regarding jerry yeah, I think his real name was sketchy jerry, going to follow that up with another statement, and this is from a man named ronnie godwin, now ronnie godwin hit. According to his statement, he had been at jijiu night club for about three or four hours the night Did the boys had passed away to happen in place? He said that he had had seven or eight beers there before he left any left around midnight. When he was driving home, he was driving down high. We five he turned down county line road, and then he turned right on one eleven as he approached shrub road. He saw an unmarked police car. He said it was either tan or grey, but it had three antennas police hubcaps and spotlights on it. Instead of turning right onto shrub road toward his home way
which could be like a detective car. Yes, yes, cause a lotta times like we. We live in a pretty small town and when you see well, why do you live north? But ah you grew up here n. You know you see these cars, you have the police cruisers and then sometimes you have the sheriff cars or you have like, maybe a chief of police car. But then you also have these detective cars they're, pretty easy to spot tinted windows, a bunch of antennas death, while after seeing the vehicle he decided to go straight to avoid being noticed. Instead of turning towards going to his home. He had been drinking obviously that ninety said seven or eight beers, and he was concerned that he was going to get another D w. I had they spotted him. He would eventually park is car and shut off his lights, but when he was near shrub road dark can he saw two cops with two boys. I his first thought was that the police may have caught some boys trying to break into the store
It was in the area. One of the boys was described as being taller than the other and more heavy set, and this boy had light colored hair. This boy had been shoved up against the phone booth by a larger cop. We can assume at this point the teenage that their pushing up against this pole would be dawn henry heat during this altercation. He believes that he sees one of the teenagers being hit with something in the head and this was near a phone booth, so he wasn't certain if would have been the receiver from the phone that would be would have been from the phone booth or if it would have been a larger item its you know, it's dark out he's got his lights off, but he sees the one boy being hit in the head and remembered the autopsy, was the whole skull fractions
and he also says that he did not believe or did not see the boys to be resisting in any form that did these guys were just going after these kids. Are these guys were desk in their ask if the second boy he saw there was an officer, stay in over the other teenage boy who was kneeling and on the ground, but he had his head down and he couldn't really make out whom the kid was. After this all took place. He said that he saw the two officers throw the boys into the bay c of their vehicle. He then sees one of the officers grab, what he believes to be a rifle and throw it into the car as well. The officers then get into the vehicle and they take off he says that they make a turn and he noticed that they went onto a road that that is a dead end. He lost track of their lights. So at some point he believes that they may have turned off to the left,
He was obviously concerned about this situation and a bit scared, but he still also watching out for himself. He still worried about that possible d w. I answer He decides that, since nobody noticed him there, he knew that these officers would have to turn around at some point, because it was a dead end and he was worried that they could come out it in second, so he decided to still lay low there, and he said it's probably about fifteen or twenty minutes went by before he sees the vehicle drive by again. He did not notice if the boys were still in the vehicle. At this point, Ronnie Goodwin estimated that all this took place around two or two thirty, a m that night the night that the boys were and on the tracks. Right now in this is interesting here captain we have a couple of stories that seem to be lining up with one another. We have. We have their friend Keith clooney, who states that he'd left, because police officers drove up scared him off any balloon.
if that their something happened right near the police officers. In the end, the boy sat lisa confrontation. We have that story then we have the unknown jerry person, and then we have this wrong. Goodwin combo katy jerry he half year. While the thing here is the state, the state police officers during their investigation, they believed, because this any good when story was so similar to the story of this unknown g. a person who is name right. They had moved out of the area, they believed that joy mary and ronnie good god when were one of the same, and the thing here is when they approach crook and in they asked you know here, here's the guy that we believe this jerry person is. Can you confirm this or deny it right? He states very matter factly. This is not the person that I'm talking about, as I still refuse to give his name, but this is not the person
that I was described his senses. Summers like they're trying to minimize the idea that there was police officers involved. You I mean I get why we got three stories right now that they all kind of line up, but we were thinking that your guy alien guy see are the same, so they only have two stories that line or possibly could be the exact opposite, the maybe trying to corroborate this godwin story right in and in just to him and say: okay now we know you told somebody else about this and we believe you even more- I mean really could go either way, which does make some sense because he was coming from the bar, so that would put two and two together. There's a lot of things that line up but there's probably more than one person leaving that bar that night correct yeah. Well now we have three story. So let's get to the fourth story. This is going to come to us by tom new house not to be confused by tom old house
this is the guy that was hiding in the bushes Tom new houses not introduced into this whole thing until around ninety. Ninety, three, this is when a friend of Kevin Ives reaches out to Linda, and he says that he knows a boy. That's now. Eighteen and nineteen, Ninety three: they had seen some things that took place that night and he wanted to put her in contact with this boy. This boy didn't wanna, talk to anybody, but he thought that. Maybe if Linda talk to him that he would, he would feel the urge to come forward with this information. Having meeting wanted them one of the victims, so he puts the two of them in touch together will mean in the victim's mother. regular in so Tom tom- tells the story that he is out the night that the boys are found and he was out with a couple of his friends
They were out in the area of the tracks and they were looking for marijuana plants and they were goofing around and just you know it's kind of being out in the middle of the night. You know doing weird stuff. Well yeah well, and we kind of talked about this like when we're kids. The whole thing was especially around the summertime. Was you might? If you could camp out in the backyard that you might go like do some pranks right? You might have toilet paper, somebody's house, you might pee in somebody's mailbox stuff like that. Ah inappropriate, not nice stuff, but the the best was good for the toilet paper. Manufacturers are while good and bad cause, but but it was always weird to me, it's like he'd be walk into the neighborhood and you might have a couple of buddies with you and then all of a sudden. You see another group of people from your high school and they're out doing the same thing that happened with you: what's happened once yeah, but it like freaks you out so kind of similar thing. Where you have this one group of boys out where we are
for sure what they're doing yet claim that their hunting, and then you get this other set a kids out and there may be looking for bought this kind. Looking around, well- and you know what happens captain if you're out at night in your kid in the dark in see some lights headlights or light turn on you you. What do you do? Your ducking? You hide, and these kids tat, in these other kids, they see Tom. twelve at design. They see a light and they decide to duck down. You're, going to kind of observe what's going on and they see three men on the tracks- and he very outwardly describes these guys as men, and during this time he also cease to other figures approaching now tom and the other kids kind of move up and try to get a little closer to the situation, to see. What's going on now, they're intrigues right and he sees it- the and are trying to engage the other two figures. They're kind of calling
to them and telling them to come over and talk to them. This, the boy that we heard in the trailer correct now- and he Is that the boy seem he describes these two figures as as not grown man as possible teenage. He states that the teenagers seem to be. They didn't want to go and talk to them at their very reluctant to do so. At some point, though, they get must have been convinced to do so because then they start walking over towards the men. Now at this point, Tom is ducking down in these kind of hiding because he see several flashlights at the time, and he hears what he believes to be a gunshot go on like he said in the trailer kind of look the way then, but he also saw the flash of the gun, saw the floor of light. Now he cannot say whether that gunfire came from the teenage boys or from the three men that he had already seen on the tracks. What he does though, is as soon as they
here that him in his friends decide to take off and flee the area one. then, is that he recognised as one of the guys on the tracks, yes and in white We recognise one of them why? But he clay. His mother was seen attorney in town, and that attorney was on. The train. Tracks, and that man is dan harm it, and where do we know that name from captain? Well, he was the prosecutor that we have talked about an episode, one that was involved in the car of the death of the two boys to get your head around this right. This is what we are saying people. This is why this case is mine blowing to me as that we have later years down. years down the line right, a ninety. Ninety three, this stuff comes our but years earlier. We have two boys that you know mysteriously die on train tracks. They think it's a traffic accident a day
They bring it to a grand jury and that's brought by this guy dan Dan harmon, and he is the delete prosecutor. And he's the one that's in charge of all the evidence in collecting all the evidence and getting hands. Wherever and years later comes out that oh, he might have been those tracks. We have an eye witness that states that it was in fact an harm in that he could identify. Positively identify him his dan harmon, because he knew dan harm and he had some. He had a relationship with him it that merit dated his mother and we all So I have another I witness that points today and as well and we're going to get to her right after this quick beer break if you had the chance
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alright we're back, and I know the story just took a bit of a twist there at the last part, but always had did we're going to add to that. it's a little bit by introducing a person by the name of charlene Wilson now this woman she's in earth thirties, and she was known to be popular around town, but this is this- would take place years after the investigation into the deaths of boys- and this is during an investigation regarding criminal charges- in an unrelated case, charlene. Wilson testified in front of a grand jury to amongst other things. But the important thing here to our case is that, amongst other things, she testified that she had dated dan harmon for some time,
this would have taken place in nineteen. Eighty, seven right, the same years, the deaths right and to call female popular. Let's just go ahead and Peru the table Dan harmon was also considered popular. Yes, yes, he was and during this time dan harm and he was married, and she said that they dated probably seven or eight times during the course of that year, but the two of them had snorted cocaine on several of those occasions. Sprite so not only was dan harmon popular, but he was also what I'd like to call whole are now, because you can't, you can't have a girlfriend when you're married or you shouldn't have girlfriend when you're married well. The big deal here captain is that not only does she say these things, but let's but mind she's, testifying to this to these statements in front of a grand jury. So this is a big deal. This is not like you just said it to some news reporter somebody on the street no
This is now opening up a line of questioning that is probably going to open up to it line of investigation about the person that you're talking about by saying that the prosecutor, somebody that has been a prosecutor, was known to be using illegal drugs during the course of of his tenure. Yet Dan is basically a cocoa, and this is going to lead us to a lot of the other questions regarding dan harm. It now the police get involved here, because after the state in front of the grand jury. They want to know more about not only Dan's drug use, but also this witnesses use, and they also want to know what else she may know about things that were going on in the area around eighteen, eighty, seven and nineteen eighty eight so when they came she's charlene wilson, they start off providing her with two prepared questionnaires:
and one of them is more directed toward Dan harmon and the other is more directed towards the deaths of Kevin and dawn. Now, I'm in read these four: you have the first one starts off by asking. Tell us about your drug dealings with Dan harmon and Charlene responds. He kept me high a lot on occasion. I would make specific drops to different areas for him. I got high with him a lot. The next question is: if you were going to conduct an investigation on Dan harmon, how would you do it? She states that she would go to his ex wife rebecca then he would then she would check his money background with a fine tooth comb. She then recommended going through drug taskforce records to see who they may have led off during. Time when he was in power as well as pay, often drug trades and things of that nature
they asked her to list the five most important causes that would have led dan harmon selling drugs and using drugs. She states that it would be his family history, also letting people go, they had enough money to buy him off would have led to his drug use, drugs being confiscated, but not actually being reported would be things that he might have been using or selling by letting bigtime dealers offer free. She also did that its common knowledge of his drug use and that have been common knowledge amongst many people in his circle. For years they ask her to write and tail one drug deal the that she had conducted with Dan harmon, and now this scrummy a little difficult because, like she said I mean she was high a lot of the time. Yes,
and I imagine that there were probably more than one in drug dealings that she was involved, with wit than harmon, but she's going to give the answer to one of those and the one that she states is one that took place at a place called Lee beast row club She says Dan Harmon was there as well as roger Clinton and herself. She said that this took place on a weekend in and that they had met there in a parking lot and did a cocaine exchange next question. She's asked: do you know who else deals drugs with Dan harmon and now they ve? They ve pulled this info and from this questionnaire, because she's naming other people here, but she does name at least for other man. The next question is, while filling out this warm. What were your emotions and she states that she was scared, but She was also ready to come clean, she's, worried about what Dan may find out that she is saying about him.
The second question is, as I said, is more related to the deaths of the boys, and it starts off by saying tell us what You know about the circumstances that might have led to the deaths of dawn Henry and Kevin ives? She states She feels at dan harm and has more knowledge of the two boys deaths than he has ever told in late summer. In august she says it she drove with harmon to alexander to meet with she assumes a man named Keith MC to make a pick up now. She says this would have been around the time of the two boys debts. They ask right in detail. What happened on august? Twenty second nineteen, eighty, seven from the time that she got up until the time she went to bed that evening she states that she got up. She did some coke and christy mixed and yes said she says: that's called high bawling. She cleaned up the house left and went off to find some more drugs.
Later than afternoon dan and wanted to show her house and they went in his car and they ll that a house and alexander when they came back to her house. She said she ate something and put on some makeup. Dan then asked her to take, ride back out to alexander with him, and he asked her to pull down the old quarry road, and should he told her to wait in the car he gets out. He leaves she states that she stayed in the vehicle and she got high a while. She was waiting for him to come back. She said he suddenly then comes back shouting, let's go, they happen the vehicle in they head back to her place and that's when she is told to take a shower, he's she's asking him, if there is anything wrong, he saying there's nothing wrong. Did they spent some time to get? that evening he took a shower she. went to bed, and he let me go back to his wife's house. While the final question on this questionnaire
Is they ask her? Do you have any reason to be afraid of answering any of these questions and she states simply? Yes, I because Dan harmon does not like me in nineteen, Ninety three, this would be in may by this point dan harm and has been charged with some drug possession charges and he is currently awaiting trial. Now I think I think some of this is going to come to light here captain, because I think that at this point, Charlene Wilson might feel that she might be safe from Dan harmon because he's facing these charges and he could potentially be going to prison by any in an interview with the state police department. She states that she knows quite a bit more about the night that the boys were killed all now. Skin uncanny juicy this the statement given to detective brown shortly and said that she had been with Dan harmon and Keith Mc Caskey, all the night, the boys had been killed. She went with it
to the train tracks. She said that when they arrived, there were two other men that were there as well, but all these men seem to be added because there was a small band of kids, they had tried to rip off the Z now they were going there because there is going to be this drug drop. They were expecting to get three to four pounds of coke in five pounds of we'd, one and like we said, there's drops that were made from trains, but also possible that the planes would come in and stop in a field make a drop in and fly to the airport now she said that when the men got there, they stumbled upon these boys that where apparently trying to rip them off and what had happened was they chased after the boys and they got away now. She said that they caught two of them and they were brought back to the tracks. This was Kevin.
I and don Henry. She said that when the boys arrived, one of whom was already deceased at that point, she then claimed that Keith mechanical, killed the other known on honour, not she's, line she's line. That's not the whole story is not also But it is also not the end of the story, so she would actually give multiple confessions to what had happened to the boil. The horse so while we kind of sea it with that. First part with the questionnaire right. She kind of leads on that. She and Dan harmon know more about the boys death than what Dan harmon is willing to admit that he knows, and apparently is more she's willing to admit to knowing, during filling out that questionnaire. Now, when she gives her second statement, this too detective brown. She now states that she, one of the boys, is dead. She knows exam we what had happened to them? One of the boys is dead when she's at the tracks and There boy is killed in front of her by Keith mechanical
while we see another confession from her and one thing I do want to point out here, though captain is, you know we talked about this. A lot When we see multiple confessions from people, usually the stories can change changed drastically. That's not what takes place with charlie wilson now we're charlene wilson. Basically, what I think we get captain is weak. I think we get the story. You know we get the tip of the iceberg with her with a questionnaire, then we get pretty much. The whole story right, she's, filling us in on more things. Now this this last, let's call confession its basic the same story as the second, with one little twist in ok, ok and twist being that she actually as one of who knew it. I knew it. She said that she was quite high at the time walked out of her mind. She had been hanging out with day and harm in most even coke and fears that so the cot and coke- and she said sex
He said that after the boys were attacked, the one was already dead in the one was near death, then the the men that way there. They were, they were telling her to stab the boy while yap has thought process. There is if she is right now, she's a witness and she's basically accomplice, but she can get away with that, but if she stabs one of them, is she guilty than she is also a murder, that's why they wanted her to stab the other boys she you be guilty as a witness, but now she's guilty as a as conspirator to murder,. she does admit to stabbing one of the boys in the back. She right now we have the evidence of the stab hole, and so is that's. Basically, her confessions, too Through that evening, well that really to me with pointed out,
a bit of other stories regarding that night. Then all can have some loose parts to them, but once you factor charlene wilson statement this she gives to canada glue she's the glue kind of binding everything together. So I think we need a kind of you these stories, we we should be able to kind of walk through a timeline for the evening of august. Twenty third nineteen, eighty seven yeah she's the glue that's made out of mainly cocaine, so we'll start off with the boys right, Kevin ives and on Henry well. We pointed out that if, if we take into account every one statements that were given, the police and lets say we believe, every statement that was given to the police. While this kind of points out that maybe the boys might not have been going out, that night actually go hunting, they might been involved in something else, regardless they went out that night. We know they went out that night. This would be between twelve thirty and one a m. They leave
saying that they're going to go hunting well, we now have witness accounts of other people being the tracks that night yeah so the assumption here as that cabin, and don got this plan in their head that you know we buy pot and we don't have much money, but we I know some guys that actually sell some stuff where we can make a bunch of money off of it. So if we could intercept one of these, you know I'm not saying that these these kids wanted to. right, cocaine, I'm saying that is probably more likely that they're, like you, know what, if we could get some cocaine, we pray. I know some people that would buy it. We can make some quick cash and we want even have to play my up front because we're just intercepting drop yeah. Well, I mean there's there some proof that they might have been looking to purchase, cocaine or two to distribute it to other people to make some cash
in. If that's, if that, in fact is true and they do to stumble into a situation where they over here this big time drug dealer that they keep referring to. As talking about a draw then. Maybe this is some kind of plan that they devised. Do you think the big time drug dealer, they were talking about was Dan. Yes, I actually do and whether they knew him by name or new it to be dan harmon. I don't know, but I think that there might have been people that talked about this big time drug lord, this big time time play obey time. The thing here is that the region, being is. If he's at the drop, I dont see Why he's not the big time guy, but don't you know the way these things work eagerly? what is a pyramid scheme? You have one guy it's doing pulling in a lot of the product, he's distribute to a couple people who distribute to a few more people and that it gets bigger. As you go down, there
made there and it spreads out the money and most the money goes to the top there and we're talking about a drop. if we believe Charlene Wilson here we're talking about a drug drop of. She says three to four pounds of cocaine shit in five pounds of we'd, that sounds like a pretty decent dropped me right. I'll know much about drug drops. Drug drops, raindrops dropped us, but we also have charlene wilson statement saying that she was at the tracks at night with Dan harmon Keith mechanical in a man The name of Larry rochelle now Are these other two guy, so Keith Mc Caskey, for he is a law, cool bar tender. He works at one of those places. by the county line needs, but he's a pretty well known bar tender as well. He's he's a guy, that's known, to be a bit rough around the edges he's known to be ugh user, as well as a distributor and has also been yeah right now.
Don't know much about this Larry rochelle guy. But what I'm kind of assuming here captain is that I think this Keith Mc Caskey is involved with moving drugs for Dan harmon, This Larry rochelle is probably involved in the same thing. Maybe this every guy, the shady very eyes, the bill I mean like, whereas a guy who's who's, your friend, not not larry jerry yeah, but I dont think that Larry. I don't think that Larry's going to come forward and fess up to anything when he's involved in a murder you're, maybe a way to tell a story to cover his own ass. So we gotta stay clear about this, because now we have the two teenage boys. We have don and kevin at the tracks and we also have dan harm and Keith Mckay.
school and Larry rochelle. Now we know some of these players here because we have to I witness statements: meum charlene wilson, stating that Dan Harmon Keith MC ascalon, Larry, rochelle or at the tracks. We also have. We also have Tom new house whose hiding in the bushes near by witnessing this event take place. Now there are some statements that say that that other boy that we talk about later Keith coney might have been one of the boys in the bushes with Tom new house. Now the situation here is new house witnesses. These guys interact with each other there. seems to be some kind of disagreement. He hears the gunshot go off and then the two teenagers flee the same time, we have Tom new house who fleas as well shortly after that we have dawn henry and Kevin who are seen near the store near shrub road. Now this is with the Keith cootie, as
He states agrees with the boys, so we have keith goonies meant stating this, and he says to police officers pull up, and at this point the keith takes now we also have the other two eye witnesses. This your buddy shady jerry. Now he's he says they cease to police officers. He also he's one boy take off on a motorcycle and two remaining teenage boys. We all We have ronnie godwin story who basically says The same thing we have these two, I mrs- did state that they see police off. Certain beating up kids and throwing them in the back of a vehicle. Now through these statements, one thing that we learn. We do learn who these officers are because of descriptions given as well as names given during some of these statements and these officers, R, J campbell and kirk lane, and they work for the Polanski county sheriff's office, so
Now we got more, we got more characters here, while thus stop right there right. So you love some. I gotta get your hate mail, saying tat. We don't need a recap ace. Sometimes we do. We need one going on right now. So here it is these boys got the woods were assuming that maybe instead a hunting that are trying to get in on a drop so that they possibly can get the drugs maybe sell the drugs Who knows yet they're gonna do a robin hood move. They they ve Dave, identified some bad guys. They found a way that they can make some money offer this they're going to intercept these drugs and sell em off to their friends bright and again there sixteen and seventeen. So I think some of his dislike. You mean
make some weird decisions and I don't even want to say bad decisions. Sometimes it's just a weird decision, so anyways they go out. There there's some kind of confrontation they jet they leave. Then they meet up with their friends. So now they're back at the store and there's three of them and then guess who rose up the police officers now. What we do know is: if Dan harmon was there that you know he's a pro peter he becomes a prosecutor. After this event, he knows people power he's in a position of power and if he's the big time drug dealer, he is position of power right n? He probably has people work in form within the system and out of the system, and so it's not like you know. If these cops did what the eyewitnesses claimed that they did, they were working for Dan harmon. Yes,
you're exactly right and what? What takes place here, we don't know we can't figure out if the police officers, if these two sheriff officers, if they intended to kill the boys if they were told to kill boys, but they were certainly told to go out and catch these boys right. You know, go find these guys that that stumbled up are our operation here and bring him back to me. You know they bring these boys back to the tracks and at that this is where charlene wilson statement carries through stating that one of the boys was dead by them probably the one that was, you know it will beat in the face. Yes, he was, he was hit in the face with with the either the gun or a telephone, a receiver or both, and it could have been as simple as that Words were bring these guys back to me and then, when they tried to apprehend these boys a guy control, because the boys knew what they going to head back to wreck for heading back to a a drug boss.
And if you don't know much about it, all you, then would know is hollywood. So then you have to deal with the images of you, have from hollywood right so you'd be scared out your mind, so you gonna fight for your life. The boys are then brought back to the tracks and, according to charlotte wilson, that's when the second boy is killed, whether it be from keep but gaskell or whether it be from her stabbing him, but then they placed the boys on the tracks so that their bodies are destroyed and all the evidence would be destroyed as well, but that's five key players in this, and I would, as I would say, you know to me that all food- those players are involved and the death yeah yeah yeah it there there some moving parts here that that we don't have
dont have a solid statement that locks them into this time line for the entirety of the timeline, because we have this, keep my castle he's a bit of up he's a bit of a rogue situation here. Right now, we don't know if he was actually at the tracks from the start. To the finish of this, because there is a statement that says that Keith clooney had went in and told Keith mechanical what he had seen at the tracks and that he had fled from some police officers and the mechanical then went down to the railroad tracks. The only person that states that Mc Caskey was there is wills. who says that she didn't see him until the time that the boys were brought back right. So my quest here's. I got a little bit of a question with this missus MC caskey, but yours, right. These are the five key players, but you know: did he only for the second portion of this, or was
one of the three men the Tom new house saw on the tracks, because the system and I think, is what what is more likely is that both of those officers might have been there with larry, rochelle and Dan harmon as a form of protection for this drop radio. You mean you leave one officer in the car, because new house only saw three guys on the tracks you leave. one guy in the car to keep it as a look out and the other officer walks, along with you as a form of protection, that the only thing that makes sense to me other than maybe because they can't make a radio call saying these two guys in our interrupted r r drop garage ordeal yeah. So our drug drop rights I don't know- I don't know if Keith mccaskill was actually involved in the murder or if he stumbled upon it later and then was terrified because he was dealing drugs, four day and arming and didn't throw him under the bus because Dan harm and had a lot of a lot of stuff on him. One
on top of that you just you, have two dead bodies go run in your mouth after you, salt? You know two dead bodies, and so, even if you didn't get there till after they're dead, then at that point, you're you're, maybe not talking well, he even be talking if he's dealing for day and harmony is my guess. If he's working for Dan harmon as a drug dealer right, but some p or drug dealers, and not martyrs right, and that's what that's why I'm bringing upkeep mc gaskell, because I don't. I am not convinced that he was there, for the actual murder of these boys right. I'm stating that it very clear he could have just stumbled upon end result. Why the men were still there and because he was dealing drugs for day and harmony and he was caught up in this drug ring, he didn't come forward.
Informational- and maybe it sounds stupid, you know, but you caught five adults here got two teenage boys that, like I said, making a weird decision, maybe a dumb decision. You know autumn. Ultimately they paid the price, for you know we're going to go out into the woods if it wasn't just for hunting if it was to disrupt a drug drop. Then that that's a very bad decision. You know yeah and if you're, just going out and hunting wrong place wrong time right- and I saw some things that you should have seen, but it seems like there's a lot of weight that they were planning to do this, but they're teenage boys that sixteen and seventeen years old- and you got these adults that are some in this system. Somehow the system there just doing a fuckin money, anyways right and so, and an eye
and maybe these guys like. I said there is a big difference between a drug dealer in a murder, but then, once these guys thought there were caught, they had to do something about these boys and ate and they chose, I think, to martyr them or knock among conscious cause. The one that was be in the face We'll begin, I drifted off into a coma for all we know, and then they lay upon the tracks. Does it matter that there's a train come and he's not waking up from that? You now and they might not have been fully dead by the time that the trains hid them, I think, is most likely that they were, but the way it's martyr, oh yeah, yeah and- and I agree with you- I think its most likely- that they were in fact dead when they were placed on the tracks. We have wilson statement, charlene wilson statement saying that she believe both boys to be dead when they were,
on the tracks. This also goes along with something we talked about. The first episode with the e m tease what their, what they thought about the blood as well, the train crew right were avid hunters did when they saw the blood of these boys? It was not bright red when it was not flowing in this blood. Wasn't you know it had they been killed? Why they run conscious on the tracks there? Their heart would have been pumping seconds before they were run out This would have caused the blood to flow. This would have meant more blood evidence everywhere at that scene. There was a lot, it's blood, then anybody with a trained eye expected to see- and it also was not the color- that they expected to see it as purplish in color. It did not look to be fresh blood right, so we have these five adults, but we also have these people, like I said, of power, people that are in the system and that's what's so crazy, because then
you know once they rule it. An accidental death which is probably rolled a accident death because of the people that day and harm in new, and so they can get this ruling. And then all of a sudden when it when all this new information starts, come into the light and we're gonna bring him from the grand jury? Guess what lawyer volunteers his services? He rises to the occasion and any throws himself in the middle of the investigation not only throws himself in there, but he's going to be get being the the steering and directing the grand jury and on but that he has the power he's going to use the grand jury like his own set of body guards marty but basically run a racketeering, operation and blackmailing operation through this grand jury he can now subpoena who ever he once in the
area bring them in, for questioning, submit them to questions to find out what they know, what they do or don't know who they ve talk too, and he can t can sift through the dirt. And he can sift through the dirt and see what rises to the top to find out what people know and maybe who he needs to shut up right, but whose this lockers name Well. This is dan harm right right, once a prosecutor twice a prosecutor, but clearly always a drug. Dealer and always adduced canal, Two sheriffs of at least two sheriff. So we know of that are on the take he's: got drug dealers working for him he's created his own little web, his own little operation and he's done at all, under the watchful eye of of the local police. One. I've, never heard of a story where ok, one accidental death, yeah, that's what they claim its actual down. That's all it's not! Now we got a brain, its trial, who brings it to trial dan harmon,
years later, whose one a number one suspects in the actual murder dan harmon Andrews heard of that ever I mean it's free, get mine blowing and more disk warmed up, I mean I mean we call part. The part three of four should just be cod death. That's because I guess yes, we certainly got so much more to get too will get to that. Next week we get more evidence. We got more crimes being committed, we're just gonna start. Where was I recommended reading for the weak recommended reading this week? I'm excited about this one captain, it's called dark, spell surviving the sentence. This is by one of my favorite in, I believe, one of the very best true crime authors out their moral. Ever in this story. Dark spell it's about jason Baldwin. Most of you will know him from the west Memphis three she's written about them before.
This is kind of continuing on the case. So if you're like me- and you always want to read more about the west Memphis three pick up dark spell surviving the centre by more elaborate, you can do that by going to our website. True crime garage dot com. You click on the recommended page, and you pick things up through our amazon banner and real quick before we go here. Captain we have something to talk about regarding itunes in an episode we ve had a little trouble. So all we do is we. We have a host and then our host sends it tightens, and sometimes it's has been coming up, that there is an error. Sometimes we get it sometimes is a download error were not really for sure. All we can do is do our request. Sometimes our host says all while we did something wrong. Sometimes it it's on itunes in and it's very frustrating,
It basically keeps me up all bunch of times, but also every time that we add an episode. Ah, it knocks off normally west memphis, three part one, and so I have to go back in and add it, and sometimes I forget to so when it disappears is because I forgot to and just give me a day or so and I'll fix it yeah, the the prop. We have prob, poligized for the troubles and for the frustration, but it's just equally as frustrating on our end. We are the issue. We reported the issue many many times and it is in their hands now yeah to send them a bunch of video chat. Messages made a scream and I'm gonna put you Suffice, for example, exact back now: anyways the experts aaron every time, someone shares on social media. This fills my heart: an angel gets its wings. My my heart gets all gooey, alright much,
love to you and until next week be good, be kind and don't let the.
Transcript generated on 2023-01-25.