Every minute in your morning, routine counts, and I get that my name is Jeff Pierre. I'm the host of seven from the washington post. It's a new pike has where we get. the seven most important and interesting stories of the day and all in just a few minutes, you'll be caught up and ready to drop knowledge without missing a beat. I promise listen: the seven weekday mornings follow the so now I'll meet you there unwrapped the deal that burlington find everything you need this holiday, like gifts for everyone on your list, get more marry without spending more money, because there's ways, while brains at low prices at burlington, clothing, jewelry toys and more I've all see the long in all up to sixty percent of other retailers prices every day had to your burlington

to bind deals on give today. Burlington lovely gives love the deal's styles and elections very by store. the It's been more than three weeks, Since the murders of four university of idaho students and police are starting to receive toxicology reports on the victim's hair, fibers blood,

and dna. According to law enforcement, all considered critical evidence from the crime scene, the this remains unsolved. Police still have not found a move. what what's been named a suspect but invest later saying today they are trying to provide information while protecting the integrity of the investigation. Saying in a statement we firmly speculation and unwedded information is a disservice to the victims, their families and our community. The stabbing debts of these for students has created turmoil at the university and in the quiet, city of Moscow that hasn't recorded a single murdered since twenty fifteen

less than one month ago, when I watch sunday november, thirteen for university of idaho students were killed in an off camp is house. same morning at eleven fifty, a m someone called nine when one in reported and unconscious person, Moscow, police department responded and located for victims who, on the second floor of the home and two on the third floor, they united when one call came from inside the home where the victims were killed using

survivors, cellphone, an autopsy was conducted and confirmed the identity of the fort. Victims, there's one male victim and three female victims. Forgive me These, if I miss pronounce any of the victims names as I am going off, of the Moscow police press conference, pronunciations, the Sums were identified as ethan shapen a twenty year old freshmen from conway washington. We also matters morgan, a twenty one year old scene. From quarter lane, idaho, we have cayley guns solve as age twenty one also a senior from wrath, drum, idaho, and we have anna Coronado, a junior. She was twenty years of age and from post falls idle and, like you said, there's for victims, but there are six individuals that live in the house. Yes,

it's a little tricky on the details about the home itself and as its reported there were six people and total at the home. During the times of the attack, nets been reported that six people possibly live in the home. Now of the four victims, not all of them, were people that actually lived in the hall according to the limited information released regarding the autopsies, all four victims were stabbed to death. All four victims are believed to have been asleep when the attacks started. Some of the victims defensive wounds. There were no signs of sexual assault in regard to the home, where the victims were found. This a rental house just off campus three women victims were renters an roommates at the whole ethan in the loan. Male victim was carnivals boyfriend and

He was staying the night when the four were killed and as pointed out captain we have to surviving roommates. The two other roommates were present at night when the victims were killed. They lived at the rental house with madison cayley inzana, and I believe there Initial claims were that they were asleep during the attack that morning, when one of the victims was discovered to be and conscience by one or both of the surviving roommates, they called a third party so one or some ones from outside of the home then comes through the and shortly after word, a call to nine what one is place. It has been reported Call initially came from someone not a room of the victims, but someone using a roommates cell phone police have released very little details about this nine when one call one detail

is that the nine when one operator spoke to several persons that morning and again the call came from one of the roommates self yeah. Initially there was some speculation that the nine one one call came from the actual killer, but I don't actually believe that that that is the case yes, that was one of the questions. There was asked of the Moscow police department at the press conference and that as quickly shot down, so it was asked, did the car come from the killer and they said now the plain and simple? Now the call did not come from the killer from what it looks like to me. Captain is that somebody responds to this call, a civilian responds to this call for help comes over to help in may have brought a person or two with them or in the course of trying to help an additional person two arrives. It sounds like there were multiple people that

were in the home when police arrive on the scene, then unfold, Finally, they discover to victims having been killed on the second floor of the house and then to additional victims that were killed. On the third floor of the home, it's been reported that all for victims were members of fraternities and sororities ethan and was a triple it. His brother hunter and sister maize are all so university of idaho students. That was a member of the signal, Kai fraternity. According to the university Zanna. Car noto was a junior, during and marketing and a man of the pie. Beta fi, sorority ma As in motion was a senior also majoring in marketing who belong to pie, beta fight.

and cayley can solve, as was a senior majoring in general studies, and a member of the alpha vi sorority this according to the universe. The killings have shaken moscow in idaho panhandle town of twenty five thousand residents this, City has not had a homicide in about five years, leading up to the events of november thirteenth of this year. For those familiar with the area. The college is located about eighty miles south of spoken washington. The university is just a few minutes drive from the washington idaho state border. I was looking at this the other day captain and it looks like maybe a five minute drive from the campus area to the border. You go west past the bees and then very quickly you are, the great state of Washington yeah. I know.

They suspended classes for a little bit and then then continued classes, but I think it was during the thanksgiving week when there are only in school for a couple days where allow students, weren't goin to class in the university, said: well, you don't have to attend class, but you can attend on line and I just thought it's a three day week. This is this: is a mass murder to shut down school for a few days and just let these kids go home and feel safe cause at that time and maybe still to this day we don't have a very good idea of who this killer is that's exactly right, so the Moscow police chief, his name, is james fry he has reminded us almost daily that they have not identified a suspect or found the murder weapon. What you're talking leads to what I find to be something that seems to be highly debated, not just on

but more importantly, on the campus itself, where the general public keeps asking the police for clarification. Is there a threat to the community here right so on november fifteen? This is too. after the martyrs, the Moscow police say They preliminarily believe this was isolated, targeted attack, There is no imminent threat to the community at large. That's their words verbatim, and the evidence quote answer, and that quote evidence indicates that this was a targeted attacks. other statements that are very similar, say the killings came in an isolated, targeted attack and there's no imminent threat to the community at large police also said evidence from the scene indicates. There is no broader

risk but provided no information about the evidence, nor why they believe the victims were targeted the following day, police backtracked, some of that saying they could not actually say whether there was a threat to the public or not. yeah layman's speak, thereby equally saying. We think we have evidence that point said these: are these crimes took place because of the victims so may that they were connected to was most? likely the killer. This is what happens in any. Of these cases, especially when we have multiple victims berry and honey. Sherman media was asking right away from jump street the same question: do we have a threat here to the community? Should we should we all be concerned should be we scared for our lives when the two girls were and delphi indiana. That was the first question the police were answering too.

Time and time again and then, of course, this is the question that keeps popping up over and over again, especially this first week and here's here's where I feelings are on this and I not calling anybody out, but my Feelings on this are yes, I don't care This was a targeted, his hack or not. I don't care if delphi was targeted or not or honey, and bury sherman of these cases when you somebody who has been murdered and the killer still out there and you know very little about the crime itself or you have very few leads on how to track this individual down who's responsible for the homicide. There is a threat to the community, whether its target it or not. You know I had this conversation. The other day we were talking about the Nancy egos and homicide and as you know, camped in a long time. Listers of this show knows that's a sixty two year old case,

and the longer that a case drags on without result without a solution. The more suspicious people get so in Nancy's ways depending on who you talk to, you could have a dozen decent suspects and thereby and the question that kept coming up time and time, then is well if you had a narrow it down nick. Who would be your number one of your top three and my answer to that was simply look. We have all these people that that you question and say they could be responsible for Nancy murder. However, there are two people on that list. They killed other individuals. and for me that prioritizes them much more more than these other suspects. In my mind, simply because of the fact that the to individuals are capable. We know

capable of murder because they ve done it before and so that in itself is a threat to the public think most of us are not capable of murder. Another individual, but I think most of us are capable murdering someday. We just choose not to be giant douche waffles. What we have here on the campus. In the surrounding communities of the universe. of ida, idaho, whether you like it or not or whether was targeted or not. You have some one or some ones that were capable of going into a home in attacking for individuals in their sleep and murdering them that person or persons will always be capable of doing that again. There is a threat, whether the police want too, and whether the universally ones do a minute or not, regardless of this is targeted. There is in fact, threat to that community and in fact there is a threat to the south

the communities as long as this person stays at large year? You sing it. Sister police are desperately seeking information in this case. They are also seeking surveillance footage. It has been several weeks so they have had some time to come act, that information and potential footage, and they have been able to do so and had some success with that, but they really need any type of public assistance in any help that can be provided to them in this case, as said we are reminded almost daily from the Moscow police chief that they have not identified a suspect or found a murder weapon. So I need your help. They need our help information be found in at two zero, eight, eight, three, seven one, eight zero, also tips. the email to the following address that is tipp line at sea. I dot moscow, dot, idee dot. U s and you don't have to

right any of that information down. That will be in today's shone out. So if you need to refer to that in the future will have that available well your law enforcement in your showing up to the scene. The first thing you have to do is that we have two surviving people that live in the house that were at the house at the time you have to let them I think, first cause, I don't think it's out of the roma possibilities to look at them as possible suspects, but then they brought in other individuals to that crime. seen, so that makes it even more difficult, the more people that are at houses it becomes more difficult for law enforcement, Also, anyway, that's been college knows you have multiple house parties set, means thousands and thousands of handprint

in dna and and so much stuff that makes this crime scene. I think a lot harder for for law enforcement. He. This is a difficult case for for many reasons, and we ve talked about this before the of course you're the, them social circle is going to be where you will most likely find your perpetrator and now We have two times that by four we have for victims here. So we have police on record, saying that at least at one point in their investigation. They believed that this was a targeted attack, meaning one or all of these victims were targeted but This is a very bizarre crime to try to investigate one because the tat lady of the number of potential suspects, the number of potential witnesses, because you have for victims everything's times by four here and then

the bizarre nature of the crime scene itself and how it possibly went down, because here you have four people that were killed inside this home, but that's a gaiters. What little information is coming out? One thing that they have told us is they believe and no through to a timeline here in a bit, but they believed that the other two victims vivier victims to people that live there at the home were present at the time of the murders, and they were not attacked, they had no injuries What happened and how does this go down and how is unfortunately, the perpetrator, perpetrators, successful in getting into this home, carrying out these attacks? And yet we have to harmed individuals that we don't what kind of information, if any they are able to provide to launch force, we had very confusing, because we don't think there are. I wouldn't

We don't think these roommates were your witnesses but then they call nine one one and say that somebody's unconscious, but that they should have in the blood everywhere I mean this is a massive bloody murder scene. Three topics that I want to make sure that we get to and we're not going to be able to get into everything with this case here today, because a lot of it still population and rumour at this point you we ve, had so much people hit us up and say: when will you guys be talking about the university of idaho murders? And we know that this is thing: that's that's in the media right now. It's front lines of the media and being asked that we fell a duty to to deliver information here today and partly, I believe, captain that It is our duty to deliver some information here today, because I'm already star

to see some strange things coming out in this case that are very likely, not true or not a part of this case. I want to steer clear of those items today and stick to what we do know for certain. We get into some speculation along the way. But I want to kind of stick to the path that has been created. The narrative that has been created through the survivors and through local law enforcement working. This case, because, as we have seen, in other cases, that there is a lot of strange things, a pop up, there's a lot of things that are korea in out of make believe and cases Then, when you get closer to the case being solved or once a case, a sob, you realize all those things that seem like they were almost out of a whore flickr off of the movie screen that seem like probably weren't true. Well now we know that they aren't true. So again, we won't

no. What's going on in a large portion of this case until they find the person or persons responsible, obviously but I think it's important to deliver and remind everybody of what information is out there, because that's how you are going to have to build your case. That's what detectives are going to use to build their case, and this is not something where anybody is sitting there sit on her hands, hoping that somebody's gonna phone in the car- information. Now we have the police department, we have a lot of state, police involved already in this case we had the fbi behavioral science unit. That is been sent, the area. We have local state fbi agents as well all four idaho that have been on seen since view early on in this case. So we got a lot of very capable agencies and persons working this case. Things might start moving a little quickly here. Yes, alive,

to dive into him on this strange case, but first, let's take a quick beer break. The. The show was sponsored by better help. Life doesn't come the user manual. So when it's not working for you, it's normal to fill stock Europe has a trained to help. You figure out the cause of china Jeanne, emotions and learn productive coping skills is sustained to a guided tour of the complex engine. You call you better help offers all the benefits of in person therapy, plus it's more convenient, more accessible and more affordable.

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there's off your purchase, alright years, thanks for join us for this special episode, cheers everybody cheers EU captain Jim. Do all of are faithful listeners out there and cheers in our thoughts and prayers go out to all the staff in class. Aids and family members of these for victims, we understand that these are trying times and we hope that this at investigation get some legs and takes off soon and starts heading in a very good direction. I feel like law enforcement.

is currently doing everything that they can, of course, they're not sharing a whole lot of information. So there has been some frustration on the part of the public and students at the university there, which I completely understand, but for the time being we need to keep in I find that they are trying their very hard is they're. Putting a lot of resources on this investigation, hopefully they'll, have a suspect in their sights here pretty soon. I do want to point out here captain, because we typically don't cover a case. There is just so recent. You know we covered delphi back in two thousand and seventeen, but we covered it and in may and it took place in february, and we were one of the first to cover, but usually with these cases, if you

inside of ninety days of when the case takes place of the day in question, there's not a whole lot of information unless you have an arrest that takes place within twenty four forty, eight, seventy two hours of the case itself. This is a very active investigation. As we said Not a lot of information coming out, but I do want to now. The information that we are delivering here today has been compiled through several sources those include, but are not limited to the university itself. The Moscow police, the following news outlets, which are a b c cnn fox in the national desk. Now there Three things that we want to make sure that we hit on here to day and your mom again we should be learning more information in this case and hopefully sooner rather than later, but we're gonna go with what we have here today. Those three additional items that I would like to make sure that we cover. We have a time.

Line that has been put together. That is really started to flesh itself out. It's not in great detail. That's one of the things in investigators are hoping the public will come for with more additional information to help them continue to flesh this time line of the for victims and their the people in their social circles. We have some I'm calling them additional autopsy information, but it's more of comments that were made on the record from the county coroner and we also have some additional house information. As we know we talk about this every single week here in the garage. The keys to these investigations are learning as much as you can about the crime scene. Learning it as much as you can about the victims and their surroundings, and also the investigation itself. Do you have anything that you?

think we should prioritize and tackle first erika the floor is yours kind, sir. Let's go with some of the additional house information that we have and then we'll circle into the timeline. The house information, the crime scene itself is what makes this case so mind boggling to me and many others out there. It's very difficult to believe that someone or some once could sneak into this home attack and kill for individuals. you have to other individuals that live in the home that are said to have been present in likely sleeping at the same time of these attacks. The statements are that the attacks when they started the victims were asleep. Some of the victims is reported had defensive wound, so they, like lee based off of those statements. The best I can gather is that they may have woke up made attack. But how does this

betrayed her perpetrators seeming get in there. This kind of level of stealth. And leave there with the same level and you have to surviving members of the home. You have its reported that there was a dog that one of our victims, cayley the she owned. A dog in the dog was present when the office it has arrived. It's reported that the dog was not so they find two of the victims on the second floor of the home and two of the victims dead on the third floor of the home, and the vague statement regarding the dog is that the dog was not present where the victims were found, but was in the home when the officers arrived on the scene and we have the statement from police where they are saying the other members of this home You do not have reason to believe that they are involved in any way in the killing so

That's the kind of mind, boggling scenario that we have here regarding the dog and the other to individuals and then one statement that has come out more recently, and this is coming from the the property management team that manages this rental house as it, there is actually a sixth person listed on the lease. That person I'm unclear is if this person was still living there at the time. We know that this is student housing we could have. Situation, where the sixth person decided to not attend school for the full year or or left campus early, for the upcoming holiday and was not around at the time of the the homicides. It's a little unclear about this sixth person

and their involvement in the actual home, leading up to the this tragic event? Yeah. This is absolutely tragic and and so confusing so many questions, but I think the way probably got in without being seen and heard, is This happened at the we hours of the morning too sleepy college down. There's just now. A lot of people out well in our for victims here did not return to the home until ass one a m that night. We know that to be fact in my neighborhood ice somebody walking at one a m or afterward, and that's very bizarre that something that that sends up a red flag here in my neighborhood, you don't anticipate seeing anybody out that lay. nor or roaming the streets. If it were so, let's into now that we ve covered some of the additional home. information that's been put forward by

the media. I think we need to get into this time line, because the timelines got some interesting details. About it and this time line has been provided to us from fox news dot com. So if anybody wants to look this up, you can go there and find it for you self. I'm not gonna go through the entire tee of the article by just jump right into the timeline captain comment, as you see fit here, the time on that they provide starts with Saturday november twelve, and this technically will be the day before the homicides, but they, the victims, were killed in the small hours of the thirteenth and also discovered that sir day. So keep that in mind. So Saturday november, twelve, we have cayley gun solve as post a final instagram post at eight, fifty seven p m and it's a picture that is oh, almost famous at this.

Wait because I've seen it this picture generated on and being thrown around on different websites in different news outlets. I mean it couldn't paint a picture of happier people all four of our victims are in this picture. They are looked to be in credibly happy in this moment. For my understanding, I believe that this picture may have been taken a day or so before she posted, but the picture itself was not posted until eight fifty seven on Kelly's instagram, it's our for victims, along with what appears to be to other persons who been cropped out of the picture, so we do not know who those individuals are theirs versions of this picture without them crept out of that night too. Of the persons who your keys, Lee in madison they go to a bar

and they hang out there. This bar is the coroner club, which is in town and from everything we can find a step. Tat. They were, they are from about ten o clock a little after one, a m, this was interesting to me captain, because, when I started hearing that the for victims is believed that they did not arrive. Home and so very close to two a m that morning, it was interesting to me because, given the sea eyes of the town, and I know that it's a college but I travelled around on the internet in and on map apps very quickly realized it was going to be. Difficult. There was not a whole lot of businesses are bars that would stay open that late, even on a site today, so it really limited the locations that they could be going to, because originally this simply reported, as they were at a sports bar.

or a local bar anne had left their. Arrived home around the two o clock, our so now we get some further detail. It was in fact the corner club, which is in and while this is going on, while we have madison and cayley there at the bar, we have ethan and his girlfriend anna who went to a party together at these sigma Kai house, which is located on campus after word, we have made then, in cayley, who are captured on video on twitch footage at work? Forty one m- and this is they- are standing outside of a food truck in this video clip.

They are waiting in line at the grub wandering kitchens food truck, which I guess the locals call the grub truck. They are chatting with friends. There are placing an order. This is when they are last captured on video, so We know that they didn't go straight from the bar to their home. They stopped off at this at this food truck first police, initially said that they all of the parties had returned by eleven forty five, a m but later revise their statement to say that matters in cayley actually arrived home at one fifty six, a m. This is based off of additional evidence that they have covered and they received a ride back from a private parties, this initially was reported as an buber bride, but now it's being referred to as have

received a ride back from a private party whom police have not named publicly, but they say that they have ruled out as a suspect. Now what going through this article and if we get to the other article was well captain that I want to dive into. I want to be clear about something because the the language is changing throughout some of these articles. Ok in some articles. What they are saying is that certain individuals have been cleared or certain individuals, been ruled out as a suspect. I will state, as the article states it, but what I think that we need to make very clear here, and what is very important to me is that the language that the investigators are choosing to use in regard to speaking with the public in the meat,

yeah is different than the language in some of these article, a couple things that are in favour of one enforcement here, as we have two parties in their at two locations. Two girls around a bar, the boyfriend girl. an affront party, so because it's a small campus law enforcement is gonna, have a good idea of the patrons of that bar and patrons of that part Those people obviously need to be looked at because The sum of the last people had come in contact with these individuals, but then we have the two girls that stop at the food truck, and then I know that they ve investigated several people that have been a part of that video clip that you ve talked about because this is not a huge campus and we don't have a ton of students, and we don't have that many businesses open

I think, is in favour of law enforcement figuring out and being able to interview the patrons of both the party in the bar and why I wanted to make sure that we were clear on here again referring to that language. That is being used because in these situations words have very powerful and true meaning, and so I always am mindful of the words the investigators are choosing to use when they speak with the public and choosing to use when they speak with the media and the words it? The investigators are using again different from these articles. I get to see and hear with my own ears a quote of investigator, saying that so and so has been ruled out as a suspect or When so has been cleared in this case, in fact, what they have actually been saying,

Time and time again are the two: are these two statements? We don't believe that this person was involved to me. That's very and then saying somebody's been cleared or ruled out as a suspect. The other thing that they are saying is that there is nothing connecting this incident or this person to this case again, That's different, then saying somebody has been ruled out to me. Ruled out cleared means. We ve determine this person. no possible way, any shape or form could have been involved. In this saying we don't believe or have no reason to believe that they were involved means we could still find something later that changes. What we believe happened here yet of language few hot pants. The article goes on to state that the two surviving roommates were females who survive the attack

they have also been cleared again. This is the language of the article have been cleared as suspects. Did they returned home? That night they were out is Well, they return home before the four friends who were later killed. So these two feet el roommates per this report returned home around one, a m so based off all of this information, what we what it looks like we have a home where six people were going to go to sleep tat night. All six of these individuals are out on the town, and it appears that the two of our victims are at this bar than they hit the food truck. They get a private party to drive them home. That person's up and publicly named, we have our other two victims that were at a fraternity party on campus. They return home and we the two unnamed or previously unnamed roommates, who return home as

that night so they're all out, but the surviving. Mates return around one a m, then we have the two from for fraternity or sorority party that return around one forty five a m and then the last who people of the home return at one. Fifty six a m! So that's interesting! That are able to narrow it down to very precise times here, and that is certainly very helpful for the investigator. But one of the things that are confusing is you think about the timeline, and you go okay. Well, what? If one of these individuals got into an argument with somebody, and then the person followed them home while that would make some sense as far as some kind of motive and makes sense, on some level. But what does it make? Any sense is that these two groups of individuals weren't together, so wasn't like four of them went somewhere and got an argument then, that followed them back home.

So that's where it gets even more confused exactly that's that really makes this complicated and just the nature The crime scene in the persons there at the home makes this very complicated as well police of up front and saying recently that it is believed that the murders took place between the hours three and four a m, and we know that the nine one. One call that came in that was received that call came and at eleven fifty eight, a I'd love to at when one car, so there's we're timeline right. Their police have stated, as the cat stated earlier that the four victims were stabbed to death with a edged weapons such as a knife. That was the language they were using early on lately. What has been stated is that it was a of a fixed blade

weapon. What's interesting. Here, too, is that, through the course of their investigation, where learn from persons it they ve interviewed and businesses that they ve gone to that they have a very good idea of what kind of knife it was. This was not. It was not a kitchen knife. This was not a pocket knife. This is why one business owner referred to as a rambo style knife that they were specifically asking about a knife of that style. Typically call that a survivor knife that's the way they were. Is advertised when we were kids their captain, but if any seeing the movie rambo, they know exactly what kind of knife that they are are looking for. This would be a large blade and would have a very

sharp blade on one side and with it with a large handle an. I believe. That's called the hilt right, I'm not sure if that's exactly what I call a bit, but that that there would be evidence of that, on our victims and that's why they are probably honing in on a very specific type of nice, then. I just want to point out that makes it difficult for law enforcement. Is I'm guessing the dna transfer and the blood transfer. If you attack one victim and you get some blood on you and you attack the next victim, then you're gonna be transferred their blood, the next victim and then both those victims, blood to the next the and so on and so on and to add, additional information about the potential murder weapon. Here we have the idaho statesmen. They reported that police were focusing on a K bar. That's K, a dash be a or brand knife,

in their investigation and head question, a local hardware store manager about whether the job, had recently sold such a weapon, and then the article goes on to state that, in the coming days, the police were ruling out or clearing individuals that we have already mentioned the roommates, the person whom ever drove them home. It sounds like they ve looked several different people again the language that I've seen them use outside of this article and other ones that we will say here today is it they do not believe a person that certain person was involved or there's no evidence connecting them to the homicides which again I I believe it's different, I think, is pretty strong to say that you ruled somebody completely out. I think, by doing that who run the risk of putting your foot in your mouth. I keep both feet in my mouth at all times.

unless I get into some of this additional information about the autopsy. Like we said here, captain they release very low information on autopsies, but autopsies, though from from what Little information they have released. It sounds to me like this was a rather quick, straightforward attack, The only thing that's bizarre there is it. It appears that the victims remained asleep, while the other victims were being attacked. Now we do have statements that are coming from the county corner to the media that I find to be interesting and then to they back up a lot of the oceans early on, and they back up some of the other statements that we have found in the media. So I saw rise it as such for unity, city of idaho. Students were found dead in a rental house sunday. They were stab to death in their beds and likely were asleep. A county coroner told a cable news channel

the county coroner told news nation that each victims suffered multiple stab wounds from a quote? Pretty large knife, and goes on to say state quote: it has to be some pretty angry in order to stab for people to death and quote the victims. The coroner said were stabbed in the chest in upper body area. The coroner said that the victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times. According to police, there was no evidence of sexual assault. Polly said anne law enforcement say that the murders took place between three a m and four a m the other thing here and or to the crime scene itself is, there's no signs of forced entry into the home. There is also no sign of anything having been taken from the house yeah. I can't speak too this particular house, but I know the houses on a high state campus.

If the door is a little broken or a lock is little broken, you're lucky, Have your landlord common fix it is it possible that the doors were locked if somebody was able to either pick those locks or you know, use the old credit card trick to get in and and they and the people in the house just just in deadbolt the door, some other persons of possible interest that people, I'm sure would like for us to speak about his. There were multiple phone calls made from two of our victims, two of our Male victims to a male individual, it's now being reported that those multiple phone calls were to an ex boyfriend of one of the victims. It appears captain two things are going on with that one, I'm very curious who this individual was when they weren't naming him right and now they're listing him as an ex boyfriend of one of the

victims, but it then became clear that law enforcement was using this information for two things. One again, the statement of we don't have reason to believe that this person was involved But it also sounds like these text or phone calls. These communications were what how them to narrow down the time of death as well, and so it seems like, Even they get home around two a am of course you know. go home and in most of us, don't go home from a night out and then go straight to bed, but it was very late at night. When they return home, but it appears that they were still active for some period of time. After returning to the hall, That is why, when I go to a bar and then I hit up the old grub truck, I'm pass an outright when I get home. Let us be clear about this. I wanted. I want to make sure I'm clear on what your stating this x.

boyfriend was not just in communication with one of the roommates or one of the victims, but in communication with two of the victims. That is what the statements are from the articles that I have reviewed. Yes to me, that is, suspicious, and me I'd want to know what those conversations were about. Reed in anybody, that's communicating are interacting with any of our victims. Leading up to the murders is going to be somebody that will be interesting to police into investigators. Now, in this regard, I personally did not find it to be bizarre, I did I get it, but the social circles that I run in almost every one significant others are very close friends with with everyone. In the group and the way that I stand as an end. Again, I'm just you know forty year old, dude Livin

way across america away from from these victims, trying to understand some victims and their their lives going on that are half my age I clearly dont know anything will clearly and live in an abandoned by the river, but just pointing out that for my understanding. The information that's out there is that the two? we're in communication with this ex boyfriend were madison an cayley and from my understanding and listening to the victims, families talk about their daughters and their daughters, relationships with each other that these two were best friends from middle school. And beyond, like that, the closeness of their relationship is hard to describe to everybody out there, because it sounds to me

like many of us, may have not experienced a friendship that it is in fact this close for this long of a period of time so from middle school on high school and then they they go to the same college and become roommate together and they are two of the older persons living in this house in this rental house. On campus. I don't find it strange that having that close of a bond in relationship that one person that was not a part of that relationship of the boyfriend girlfriend relationship was in communication with this male on that night, ass said those same two victims were together that entire night, together right which could be something as simple as oh. I can't get a hold of cayley, so I text her best friend, who was always with her brain.

I called her best friend, who is always with her or so and so called him. I get it and I think, spot on captain you're, absolutely right police will be. foolish to not look at him and obviously they have done so. Say that they rolled amount or cleared and would be irresponsible to say that they can't really connect them to the homicides is, is likely a true statement of their investigation in the evidence that they have so far The other thing that's interesting and its also in regard to cayley as well as that, I guess in october or she had made reference to a potential stalker. There is very little details about that and in what she had said to other people However, the police come out and say that we believe that we have track down to vigils that may have been called a stalker. So these two individuals are our friends. They are persons that

police obviously know their names they ve been interviewed brand. guy saying here I saw I was at me and my buddy went to a public place. Those who start together flock together, and we were there were the intention or the hopes of meeting women, the ladys, and yes, I I followed her wound. I dont know if this was a boy, They don't go into what kind of business or what kind of gathering places was right, but he says yes, I around I may even gone out to the parking lot when she went out to the parking lot. He says he did not interact with her at all. This could be very simple, as the situation that we see every night on a campus boy goes out. Hoping to meet. Girl boy is to chicken shit too. approach and talk with her, but does the weird thing where he kind of follows around briefly or tries to exchange glances across the room in hopes that she

He will come over and speak with him, but never does so. The police say that they ve moved on this individual and in his friend, and have no reason to believe that they had any type of involvement at all of weirdly. He hasn't moved. That was very weird to me, not that they said that they move on from this individual, but it was to me that it did they came out and they sounded like they were so confident that they attract down the stalker. Like all it's just this guy, the guy that followed around at a bar. What have you while it could be, like you said, a flippant comment that she made that it was just kind of keen on this guy followed me around. The bar he's a stalker, or it could be that she was talking about it, individual. They just have an equal to a five. That person again asked a statement like that could mean, in the world or me nothing, because we don't know the context in which she said exactly and then what we do have where I thought that the police statements were very well,

In that regard, they did come out a couple days later and said: pay gap We have this information. We spoke about this information with you guys previously, but we now actively seeking a dish information if there was an actual stalker or if there was somebody of interest to this case and in regard to what cayley had said to her friends again we're getting very little details on what she had said and have absolutely nothing to do with this crime. Now, where my head goes on, this captain was something you had said earlier, where immediately, knowing that our victims were out and about that night before they return home, the killer, comes into the home and kills the victims and then fleas, I wanted to know in my first reaction. Was you know what dammit law enforcement better be all over every person that was at that bar? That night

all over like white on rice, baby or everybody that was at that food truck or the person that gave them a ride home. But then you compare that stock and with what I said here, that the two of our victims were at different locations and our other two victims was an, whereas a completely different party, a completely different gathering. That makes this so bizarre to me. If you had somebody that got ticked off went off the rails and wanted to do something to somebody that they had interaction with or or other why's, that night leading up to it. Why do we have additional victims, yeah, then. Why do we have to individuals that weren't victims on homes just get scared and stop the attack? I also want to go back further in time and say: was there a house party were somebody: other house party fell like they were disrespected or

humiliated or whatever? That may be came back because this type of weapon, to me is not a knife that you're just gonna be carrying around with you two parties. So to me this. This seemed like not some random thing that this was actually planned to some level. Well, I'm what I would encourage here is anybody- and I know I'm stating the obvious but Annie but on that campus or in the surrounding communities? That know somebody that has or weeks ago had that type of if that type of weapon in their possession, please beyond the phone with law enforcement, and let them know that you know somebody that had that type of knife. This is not it's not an uncommon knife, but it's not also a terribly common knife. It's not one that you would find it most people's homes, in fact

The only reason why I am well aware of this knife is when I was in cub scouts and boy scouts. There was a good number of of boys that that had this type of knife in wood would bring it on like a camping trip or or something of that nature. Yet this is a tobin knife to me that you buy in than you show your roommates age. I got my new knife and their typically not expensive their typically, incredibly well made. I can't speak to this, sir Kay bar brand. I don't I don't know that brand specifically, but I will say this. This is not a knife that I would anticipate seeing some one of our age to have in their possession I speak for yourself. I pretend to be rambo every morning, there's so many on answered quite the shins and obviously this case is going to develop more. But I actually think as much as we Why information allow the stuff that you been

reporting on is the police backtracking on statements and I almost feel like. Yes, they felt, like how to get ahead of this in the media, but I've have. I actually think that are making too many statements, because when you have to start goin back and correcting little details in the debt, the devil, like you said, lives in the details of these laws Payments are making whether their fully clearing somebody or they just moved on from that lead. I think their spending too much time trying to give information to the public. I think it would be better I think law enforcement would be better served to sit back. Let the leads come in work, those leads and when you have to native information then represent that definitive information to the public and having people like this Gabriel science unit there on scene luck, I dont think did as

it has many people and as many resources involved as you can, I think that if they do come up with some kind of profile of the killer killers, that's where that's where. I think that the f b I could be of the most service. Yes determining how many people are responsible for these homicides, but the the actual profile. If it were, in fact one perpetrator, because you have a campus because you have a community of Persons that are all roughly about the same age and they're all like minded individuals that are attending that school. I think that I dont know how much a profiles going too

hope you in the situation- and you know cap, that I'm a big proponent of of these have profiles and again where I think that F b, I can be of most services determining how many persons are involved it as difficult as it may be. To believe from what I'm seeing here. It looks, like probably one person involved. I would want to know a lot more about this dog and a lot more about this house. I've seen it for me It come out that says that the lay out of this home was tricky. It's three stories high, which is difficult anyway, for somebody that's never been into the home, Is this somebody than has previously been in the home, as you pointed out as somebody that could have been at a house party that took place there at one point. If these individuals were targeted, did they target the right people

There's a million questions here. I want to know more about this dog to this dog yeah per. Is the dog friendly or not friendly? Is this doll going to bark and go crazy at a purse that they ve never seen before, yeah Again, we don't know the location of the dog at the time. Is it a dog that they put in a cage at night time and the dog sleeps in their cage? I think you're right and wrong. I think the I and law enforcement could determine if they believe it was one individual or multiple. I think you can do that because look we have I idea of what the murder weapon was. Then we could figure out the idea of if the killer right handed or lefthanded, but I actually think because it is the small college, and now you have all these people on higher learn when there will be looking for ever individual? That's acting different word or has led.

school or maybe left school before these attacks happen. I think a profile would do a lot of good because, with a small college, people robia hi alert and I think that's gonna led to some individuals being look. that may be law enforcement doesn't have on their radar very possible very possible the the other things to consider in this case, well. You know I want to know more about this potential. Sixty per and that is on the lease wherewith they. Why are they not mention Hardly at all in any of the newspaper articles in the news articles was that person not even on campus, The time for all we know they return home to visit family for the holidays, or maybe finish school early or sign, onto the elise and didn't attend school this year for any number of reason, yeah the he lived in the house for a while, and then it like it

There was the conflict there. When I hear knife attack sleeper knows defence wounds or no defence wounds my main goal as an investigator would be a couple things. Blood evidence is going to be so key here we ve About this many times here in the garage in these types of knife attacks, it's almost impossible for the perpetrator to not cut themselves injured them I'll leave their own blood at the scene? I'm not so how For on that, because we're sitting we're almost a month later and those types of test don't take forever to run now could we have a mixing of blood and fluids. Yes, that's a possibility, and that certainly complicates things so what evidence would be a high priority for me, fingerprint evidence can get difficult here. As you pointed out, camp is house could have been house parties, we have

an additional party that we don't know their comings and goings as well. But we also have a lot of people that live there and so all their gas that they would have come visit them in the world family members that might come visit them? I think we're gonna find this just gut feeling that there is some sort of premeditation whether there is a conflict at the bar conflict at the party or conflict a week or two prior to this, that this individual either the knife for that reason, or had the knife and then had to go home and prepare themselves and that to me would lead towards they prepared themselves by getting they probably prepared themselves by getting the weapon, maybe pudding gloves, maybe changing clothes that there were able to throw away, and that's another difficult thing for law enforcement. You have a law.

Of houses you have dumpsters in that area and so make it discarded their clothes pretty easily and quickly could it have been somebody that was watching the house that this had been something that was bubbling up for some time it that and to reason a little bit considering that the two surviving members of the household returned first and they were unharmed and the attack doesn't go down until after these other for people returned to the home. The other thing that that I want a circle went on here. The is is concerning.

And these knife attacks. There's there's a considerable amount of blood, and I know that I talked about blood evidence, but this is on that same regard, footprints. You would expect to find bloody footprints at this scene, and that would be very good evidence. It could lead you to your killer. That would be great evidence that's going to. Let you know if we should be looking for one two or three people. The problem here: in my major concerns and the red flags that I have in this case, where I sit back- and I guess you know what- and I know forgive me captain, because Two of these individuals are our likely just victims themselves. Having been roommates in losing very close friends in and experiencing something that that none of us should ever have to experience such

forgive me while I go down this road of speculation here, but my concerns are: are twofold one when it's when it stated that you called some one else, but for a call to nine when one was made and then One call is, then an unconscious person, the amount of blood that would have that scene and we're not talking about they discover a victim. Six of the morning when it still dark out right. in the morning when is still dark out. This is eleven. Fifty six, a m or Levin fifty eight, a m when the nine. When one call comes in to Me- and I

we'll have to be a garage expert to sit here and go. You know, there's a there's, clear and obvious differences between a stab victim and somebody that's just blacked out or passed out and unresponsive. There should've been blood indicators there to to tell these roommates that something else happened here and instead a call goes out to a third party or two additional people that then come into our into the home and then into our crime scene right and trample our crime scene where bloody shoe prints could have been the key indicator of who was responsible for the bloody shoeprints could have been the breadcrumb trail that lead you directly to your perpetrator, and now we got people their trampling all over a crime scene and in the call that comes in, weird and ate, and here's the thing very like the nine one one call if we had the audio, for it would probably clear a lot of that up

yeah what we ve learned covering zoom cases that cases are similar. So I think you can look into spree killings like the one that Bundy did, the one that richard speck did or any other spree type killing An idea you find similarities in those crimes and this crime in idaho, but also in drawn to crimes, Like lulu lemon, where They find somebody at the scene that now we called on coal call victim and then ultimately becomes a suspect ultimately becomes the person charged with the murders of that crime, and if I killed a roommate well, let me invite a bunch other people over to the crime scene to start contaminating it. So it's not

I think, unfair, to say if oz law enforcement, like I stated at the beginning, the show on law enforcement. Those are the two individuals I'm looking at in any way that came over to that housing, whether they called starting their enemies. To that them as much as I can before I move to outside circle, so many questions and I hope that the families and the students in the staff and everybody involved gets the answers that day, so rightfully deserve sooner rather than later, and hopefully we can start to close out this case and again our thoughts and prayers with everybody that have been impacted by this horrible tragedy. I know that we did our shows a little different than we do traditionally here in the garage this week, this for those that have never. experience or subscribe to our other show off the record. These show

are much closer to what we do on off the record, and you can sign up for that by going to our website at true crime garage dot com. Next week we will be back in the garage and doing are traditional shows, as one would expect. We hope that you will join us again next week. Until then be good, because I don't.

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