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This is true crime garage, and this was the case. A john wayne gaze in those lanes, illinois nourisher cargo, a man who serve time in prison for sex crimes was led up to it.

They found the bodies of at least three young boys buried under his house. He was charged with murder years. Jim comes to police have been watching John Gacy, suburban chicago home. For the past ten days they became suspicious when fifteen year old robert pease disappeared after he allegedly was last seen with casey this morning, police searched casey's home and found the decomposed remains of three bodies in a dirt crawlspace under the house. They suspect there are several more bodies buried here is suspected because of the looks of the area down in the crawl space. There are some other mons appears to be more there casey. As a thirty six year old building contractor who reportedly dressed like a clown to entertain at children's parties. Prosecutors say he once went to prison for a sex offense in iowa this afternoon, Gacy was charged with murdering robert peace and after hearing the remains of more bodies were found at

he's house judge, Marvin Peters, ordered him held without bar at the hearing police said: Gacy has confessed to the east murder. You will be examined by a psychiatrist. Meanwhile, investigators have started to dismantle daisies housing garage as they continue to search for other bodies in this quiet, suburban neighbourhood the chicago illinois march, seventeen nineteen forty two saint Patrick day, mister on Gacy, mrs marian Gacy, welcome their first son into the world at edgewater hospital. They named him after his father. Well, technically, the named after the mothers favour actor John wayne so John, when Gacy junior, his father was John stanley Gacy, so technically, not even a jew

he was the second of three children. His older sister Joanne was born two years before him and to yours after him was his little sister. Karen all three attended catholic goals, and they grew up on the northern side of chicago John wayne. She was not a particularly popular kid in school, although I got along well with his teachers and made friends at school. He was part of the boy scouts and he enjoyed the outdoor activities that came with being a part of the boy scouts. Now gays, his father was pretty hard on the children and Gacy felt that he was abused mostly emotionally and verbally, and his father often told Gacy that he was a desert. Ointment that he was dumb, that he was stupid, those assisi yeah and he will he would even call him some, let's

Slurs that we will not be using on today's episode- and it seems to me, like John stanley- was very excited to have a boy to have John Gacy in the John wayne Gacy and into the family, but instead of you know, fishing and playing sports I think that his into gardening, whose into hanging out with his mother hanging out with his sister and it sounds like johns, far John senior was a pretty difficult man to be around now. I dont know if that, if John Gacy senior was hard on the two daughters as much as he was on John Gacy junior mia, you, he whipped them all with razor bell, but I'm I'm guessing that did John, and see Junior probably got the worst of it being treated a little bit differently by his crappy father, simply because he was the only boy now in nineteen fifty one

John wayne, Gacy was nine years old. He was diagnosed with some kind of heart condition. For my extending standing, the diagnosis was a non specific heart, ailment yeah. They detected this because any you know his playing outside with some people with some friends at school, and he passed out well in this could be part of a larger problem here, because a couple of years later, and when John Gacy was eleven years old. Now the story goes like this. He was playing near a swing set and he was hit in the head by one of the swings. Now you would think that this would be a rather small accident. However, this is believed to be the cause eva of a blood clot that formed in John Gacy, his brain and the blood clot was

I discovered until Gacy was sixteen from the age of eleven to the age of sixteen gacy suffered, severe headaches, and he often blacked out. This was caused, believed to be caused by the blood clot, because the blackout stopped after the clock was discovered and Gacy was given medication to to dissolve the blockage in the brain. This would be a pretty traumatic experience when you think about it, though you have this young boy, who's trying to fit in with the other boys, and he goes through this

period of what five years, where he's he's got these weird blackouts. That would happen from time to time John. When gaze, he wasn't doing so well in school, which was another big disappointment to his father, so he actually started taken on a trade, and this was pretty common back in the day, so he started working with printing press, but because he kept on black in out they said. Look. You cannot work on a printing press machine if you're gonna keep black and yes to dangerous. Something horrible can happen to him while he was hospitalized several times over the years. This for the block, the blood clots an for his heart condition. He was here quite a bit of problems with this, this being in his late school years. Gacy was a good student when he was much younger, but maybe because of these health problems, it turned out

if he ended up not being able to be a good student. Despite the medical problems, Gacy was considered a hard worker. He took on a part time job several part time jobs after school. He had newspaper routes and he also worked at a grocery store at one of those ideas stores as a bag, boy and stock clerk. As one of my favorite places ago, as a kid we one here in town in the movie. You would always hoped to get a cup bucks for mom and dad. So you could buy some candy after school, although easy and his father had a lot of problems. As the captain said, John Gacy relationship with his mother and sisters were very strong. He was extremely close with his mother. Sisters, ah, there is rumour and speculation that John Wayne Gacy senior did. The father was not only beautiful, but also an alcoholic there's some suspicion that he physically abused his wife and verbally abused. All three of these

children as well, there's not a lot of suspicion that he was an alcoholic. He was an alcoholic he he ends up dying from cirrhosis of the liver, while, needless to say that the family had problems. Ah, several times John's mother threaten to leave john's father and even though John SR was an unpleasant individual, John Jr did seek out attention from his father and he desperately wanted to gain his father's approval mean. I think, you'd see that with most boys you know they want the they always kind of seek their approval of the father more so than the mother am. I would assume well and outside of these medical problems there were some red flags regarding John Wayne casey's childhood and how these are stories, that were red laid from his mother and his sisters and John was about five or six years old. He got in trouble within the family and he had been

stealing his mother's undergarments, and these these undergarments kept disappear. in disappearing. Eventually, they found out that it was John that was taking them, and he would eventually buried them underneath the house after he stole them from his mother having been caught for this in scalded for heat, he didn't do this. You know whatever at a habit. This was, he fell out of it for quite a few years, but when he was about fifteen or sixteen he starts, doing something similar, but it wasn't it. Mothers undergarments. He would steal the undergarments of girls that live the neighbourhood off of the clothing lights. You know they hang him out to dry. He would steal them and it was discovered that he would bury these underneath the house as well. The old panny snatcher, now John attended several schools.

Several high schools and he never ended up graduating his father did help him out after school. by helping him get his first car. But it was one of them situations where he helped them out by kicking his ass. Well, it was those situations where you wonder if John senior was actually trying to help the boy or not because it it was a situation where it's like. Ok, dad goes and gets the car For John and now John casey junior has to pay payments to his father. Well, what ends up happening in, these situations and I'm sure a lot of us have been there, but then dad of being in charge of the car. You know it's something: that you always has to have to ask him. If you can use your car to go here or there and he can remind you well you're behind on your payments or its actually, my car? No, you can't take it to go here, they're right which of the right to if you bought the car

yeah, and so this ends up to ends up leading to a whole bunch of fights and arguments regarding the vehicle, while jaundice it's a run away from home, which is any thing to say when a person is eighteen or nineteen years old, that they ran away from home. But that's how he described and he ran away and he went to las Vegas well when he gets the loss as this was not a really well thought out, plan by John Gacy junior, because he's in us and down any has no money happens while he's there, he ends up going to the hospital and he's unable to pay the hospital bill. They wanted him to pay if something small you no thirty, six dollars, which is quite a bit more money back but he didn't have any money to pay this bill, but this We'll give you an idea of what kind of personality John Wayne Gacy had was that over the course of discussing this bill and during his hospital visit he ends up getting a job with the hospital

You know and that's the kind of personality he had he was. He was the type that they say could talk to anybody, and he ended up in it. Your panties ran off or just take em off the clothes like but he s getting a job driving an ambulance. Now he's eventually fired from this job. He doesn't for very long because they discover that he has no high school diploma, which was, of course, you know. A requirement for this type of job. Now he's in a strange town he doesn't have any friends. He does amity family. There remember he's very close with his mother and sisters and he's he's very depressed while he's in LAS vegas. so the whole time he's in vegas. Even though he ran away from home he's starting to see, back a little bit more little bit of money, so he can return to his family and returned to his home again time. Some moves away. You, especially on

this situation, he he he wants, move away to get away from his father, but he still wants to impress his father. Rice still wants to do something that see old man. I did something yet any see this when he returns from las vegas when he comes home now this is the early nineteenth sixties. He enrolled in a business college and he have, We graduated from this business got so how to get in college, but no high school diploma, I think some of these schools. If you're willing to pay the bill right, they'll fig,

what a way to get you through. So while at business college, he perfected his talent as a salesman, and he was a he's what people describe as a natural born salesman. He could talk his way in or out of almost anything and he put his talents to work when he was hired at his first real job. Let's call it ah after business school when he goes to work for a shoe company. Now he excelled in his position as a management trainee and not too long after he was transferred to manage a men's clothing outlet in springfield illinois and at this time, he's going to actually find a girl, that's going to put up with him and marry her. Yes, this is september of sixty four gacy met. What would be his

is soon to be wife. She was a co worker. Her name is maryland myers. Now her parents owned a string of kentucky fried chicken fast food, restaurant, franchises and waterloo iowa fred myers is her father Gacy new father in law. He offered him a position with one of the franchise soon after that Gacy and his new wife or low quick point here, as I think that we talk about this is the guy that felt like a failure and wanted to get ahead and wanted to be some kind of stuff I mean where maybe the status was actually more. Port and actual money, but also now I met this girl and her family actually owns businesses. Yes, she had a successful parents right. This could be a good step for my my career,

so the Gacy, the young Gacy family, while gazing his wife anyway, are going to move to iowa. So he can take one of these positions working for his new father in law now but in the restaurant business this restaurant managers work a lot of ours and Gacy was often working twelve fourteen, in our days, but he was a workaholic yes, and the plan was that he would learn the business and then take over the franchise from his father in law. Someday yeah when gacy was not working, he was active in the waterloo, lou iowa jaycees, the jason is a is a civic organization for people between the ages of eighteen and forty right. It's a not for profit organization. That's the has, like great leadership, training business I'll management skills and community services, all involved with your work, with raising its basically good way to network and to get it

add he was really interested. He he actually started a committee rank and what was that committee? I want you to say I'm not gonna say what was the committee is a is a don't litter committee and it was. It was all about not littering he hated, let her by her side at this. When, when I read that I I just cracked up, but so in ohio he's doing this non littering committee, o rat kfc. Is demanding that people com yeah make this that love you well. He he liked the captain saying He worked tirelessly performing volunteer work through with the community through the jaycees. It was

air that he had made most of his friends and he spent most of his free time working with the jaycees. Shortly after arriving in Iowa Gacy and his wife, they had their first be a son and they also had a daughter while they were living there and his family members would say you know this is called the first time that John stanley Gacy is looking at John wayne, Gacy insane, hey, that's my boy, a boy, Now my boy has a job. My boy is support in his family. His married young, I think John Stanley Gacy, was worried about his son sexuality, and so that now the fact that he's married and ass kids- it's like my boys, doing good and actually was- is kind. The first time that John Stanley was proud of his son Well, I think, regarding the mothers undergarments and may be part of the reason why the father was so hard on him, it it was

outwardly stated by her, but the belief by the family was that he was wearing these. These undergarments ran that might have led his father to believe certain things about his son, but, like said now he's he's out on his own he's working for his his father in law and his successful father in law and he's he's work to build a family, the gay jonathan wife. They had every reason to be happy during their first few years there, and I would they had a nice house in the suburbs, the kids we're healthy maryland. His wife enjoyed staying at home and taking care of the children and John had good job and he was busy with the jaycees. He was even working on a campaign for a presidency of the local j c chapter there. Now everything seemed almost too good to be true and in fact we end up learning that it indeed it was

breathing seem to be looking good for John wayne. Gacy junior get his lucky streak would not last too much longer. Well- and I don't know if it was just a luck streak as much as I think he had these desires or thoughts inside of him- that he was now becoming not able to control yeah, and there were some thoughts that that John wayne Gacy might be homosexual, and this is kind of stemming from from some of the young guys working at the kfc restaurant. They say that he is making passes at them during work hours and while working with with Gacy fast food chain. Yet people close to him, you know refused to believe the gossip. I oh here's a married man with with two kids and at this in time that you have this going on at the kentucky. Fried chicken restaurant. You also have rumour spreading.

Around town amongst the J c members regarding Gacy sexual preference and you know they're always seem to be young. Boys young men were always engaged. Gacy presents right, but there's a couple odd things that are happening here. Ok, so joint gaze, he is in charge of recruiting people and he would stop at nothing to recruit these people, for the jason and, like we said it's, this community organization and it's supposed to be about networking and help in the community and John wayne Gacy decides well. I ran a hotel and I'll start showing these recruits illegal pornography, tapes nor stag, films, yeah right so that then turns into not only are we gonna watch these tapes, but were on a higher prostitutes and have orgies so that's gone on the whole time. People of this town

Of power are having these these orgy parties and he's also, starting at this point, to to swing with his wife as well. So you ve got a lotta, weird stuff goin on So but then the rumours about you know the J c start saying hey, but we know he's doing some of this stuff, but we're doing it to the odd stuff. Is that he's hanging around a lotta young boy well in with a lot of these organizations the way You can rise to the top. Very very quickly is by recruiting numbers, and if you can write more members than anybody else. Then you become very poor, you're in a person of power within side that organization, and on top of that, if you recruited at person and then you have also this information to hang over their head are you now you might might now?

rob me the wrong way, because you don't want me telling your wife about this- and gacy was getting large numbers of recruits like on almost unheard of numbers of recruits and its believed that, because he, through these wild crazy parties right that a lot of these but were signing up just to be part of these parties, not so much to be really truly involved with the organization itself. Now, in this, bring of nineteen sixty eight Gacy ends being indicted on charges of sodomy now and most jurisdiction. Sodomy is a pretty broad, vague charge. The precise sexual acts meant by the term sodomy are rarely spelled out in law, but are understood by courts to include any sexual act seem to be unnatural or immoral. Now, there's two sides to this particular sodomy charge. They think go down here. Do you wanna give? Yes, so basically the victims accounts of this,

story. Is there hanging out with John wayne Gacy hanging out at johns house John chose emma stag film then gives them some alcohol. This would lead to some sexual advances you know. We we know the victims name, but we're not gonna, say it respect them so Leslie. Theirs is very anna, procreate a changed between adult male and basically a teenage boy that teenage boys kindest lives with it and doesn't time by and gaiety actually I am, I think, fifty bucks and also tells him hey by the way I have connections with the mob. So if you wanna you wanna talk about this, are you gonna be in for some trouble ring, so the boisterous act and strange and eventually breaks down to his parents? The problem with this is his father is: is higher.

what the jaycees, but just high up as a public figure. Well in some of those things align with with the version of the story that I'm going to tell now. This is a core. to John wayne Gacy by the way will throw them. Out there and that's that primarily, why we're not going to use this young man's name but according to Gacy? the young man was homosexual. Young man who, in mind having sex with men for money or sexual favours with men for money. Now Gacy says that the two of them were involved that they would get together often and for some reason the two ended up in a dispute about money. at the young man, went to law enforcement and said that Gacy had forced him into some kind of sexual act or Gacy is picked up for this. He denies all of the charges against him later. Gacy was charged with an additional charge with hiring a another boy too.

Beat up his accuser, Gacy offered some money to another young man, so that the young

It could pay off his car loan and in exchange he was going to beat up this kid and the way that this story goes down is that the the hired young man he gets the kid into his car. He drives him to a wooded area where he sprays him in the face and eyes with mace, and then he he tries to beat him up. However, the boy he fights back and he ends up breaking the boy's nose and he manages to get away. He then calls police and lets them know that he was attacked by this other boy. So when this boy is picked up and taken into police custody, he then in exchange gives them John Wayne Gacy his name again. Explaining that you know I was hired to attack this kit. Ultimately, the judge in this situation sentence John wayne Gacy to ten years in iowa state reformatory for men, the maximum time that you are allowed to give

for this such offense John wayne, Gacy, was twenty six years old at this time. Now, shortly after Gacy entered prison, his wife divorced him on the grounds that he had violated their marriage vows now, while in the freezer he was, he was considered a model prisoner. He remained nonviolent and well behaved, and he hoped for a while. He was a plus size model prisoner and he hoped for an early parole and after eighteen months later well, John Wayne Gacy his parole is approved. We'll get right back to the sick and twisted mind of John wayne Gacy. After this quick break, sergeant, and mrs smith you're going to love this house. Is that a tub

in the kitchen, there's no field manual for finding the right home. But when you do u s a wonders insurance can help protected the widely restrictions apply. Steel metals tat loves tools that his heart as he does so. This fathers date given get he'll love to use right now, it always on the steel FS. Fifty seven battery trimmer it setting clues if I say fifty seven battery tremor plus the eighty in battery and l wanna, one charger offer only two hundred and forty nine dollars and many mind since real steel, fine, yours and steal dealers, come one. Ninety nine undermine emma s authority off about through six eighteen, twenty three eh participating dealers while supplies last. in new orleans, twenty twelve bearskin chair. I I drove to an address someone had given him that didn't exist ass. He stood in the park What were the address should have been? He was shot and killed. I'm you d umbra, join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die The motive behind bruces, murder

a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now. Binge all fourteen episodes of or clock season, five, wherever you listen to pod, all right. We're back alright cheers mates and so John wayne Gacy, was living in iowa. He sends to ten years in prison for sodomy charges and after only eighteen months in prison. Well, they let John Wayne Gacy go in june of eighteen, seventy john wayne Gacy left prison and he wanted to return to well, just like Robert Johnson first said and later blues brothers, he returned we home chicago. John Wayne Gacy never ended up having the type of relationship that he desired with his father.

We never got a chance to rectify that situation after getting out of prison because John's father passed away during his time in prison. This affected John big time, I think, maybe because when John's dad dies, while John is in prison and for sodomy charges too. So in a sense, isn't john. The homosexual stupid loser that his father always told him that he would be and that he was, I think, John, wanted to do something with his life to prove to his father that he wasn't stupid, that he wasn't a loser and maybe, when his father's approval or an affection at some point, life right and any had that for a small period with the family and everything. But now that's that's all wiped away on wine, Gacy moved home. He moved in with his mother and obtained work as a chef in chicago restaurant,

job that he seemed to enjoy any worked at it with quite a bit of enthusiasm and after a few of living with his mother, Gacy decided he wanted to buy a house, and his mother had been impressed with how he had adjusted to life outside of the prison, and she decided to help him get a house now. This would be located just outside of chicago's the limits of his family claim that after John wayne Gacy he got out of prison. He had this insatiable drive to be something and become something yeah and it was in nineteen. Seventy one when John Wayne Gacy met karel half She was newly divorced mother. Why? I thought you were hall on not to correctly, but that's not when they met there were they were friends from childhood, basically school school friend, well, the date they became engaged at some point, and I believe this took place at some point: nine. In seventy one. They weren't married until the following year, but carol HUF was a newly

forced mother of two. She had two daughters. You know you know after the fact people say the gacy probably romances, this woman, who was in a state of emotional vulnerability and that she she fell form she. She says that she was attracted to Gacy charm in his generosity. One is a hard worker believe he would be a good provider for her and her children. She was is aware of gay sees prison experience, and yet she trusted that he had changed his life around for the better and carole and her daughters quickly settled into their new home with John wayne Gacy one. She also knew about what he to be heavy and bisexual. It was around the same time that John Wayne Gacy decided he wanted to go into business for himself and he

it's going to strike it out on his own. He began a contracting business named peaty am m which stood for painting, decorating and maintenance incorporated. He hired young teenage boys to work for him. He told his friends that he hired such young men to keep the cost low witches, which is true. He could higher and pay guys that were fifteen to eighteen years old and pay them five dollars an hour rule which was almost double. What kids could make at other jobs at that time? He could pay them well and at the same time he would be paying them quite a bit less than he would have to pay an adult with a good amount of experience. However, that might not have been

casey's only reason for hiring these teenage boys, though I mean- and we we've kind of gone back and forth on this, and because a lot of these documentaries, when they talk about Kc, they never bring up the idea of pedophilia. You know it's always just talks about. You know that he was attracted to teenage boys or young men, maybe rest time. They say young men yeah, and I think one at the time of all this, going around. This is not a commonly used term. Pedophilia did not become a common leads commonly the term until the eighties and probably the lee eighties well, and we talked about that when we cover. johnny gosh case. You know, then, the investigators were using the word pedophilia or pedophile, and parents We're saying they didn't know what that term meant ray had not heard that term before, and this was taken in the early eighties in this was different. I mean there's a lot of people that there's a lot of you

that did not even finished I school. They just go straight to work. We can talk and earlier about how? Maybe they don't use the term pedophilia because back then you, seventeen eighteen year old boy, is back. Then was a man could have been looked at as in the public's I as a man, because you know it seems to me, like you have this. You have this mindset that that may be. Of course, eighteen is the separation. You know as well is the legal delight or between a child in an adult, however, but in the public's I, in that you know the general consensus consensus I got was there. A man and a boy were more separated by a high school diploma. Rather being eighteen because, like you said a lot of times, people would get the high school deplore. And they would go work for their father in their fathers business or they would go off on a trade they. start their own business, they would go into some form of work.

and being their career, their adult life ya. Think you see this a lot like with movies like days and confuse and stuff like that you graduated high school. It is time you're entering the real world. It's time to become a man. Well, the gay sees through a lot of parties and when it came to parties will John Wayne Gacy. He was the man he he knew. What to do. He knew how to throw a great party. He would often host block parties yard parties, a lot of them were, were themed parties. You know he did some things I come. I think he did like a western style part in southern jubilee in a hawaiian party. So these big extravagant parties that he would throw, and anyway at Gacy parties he always had a lot of booze poker game. You know maybe some pot and remember, We said that he was a member of the jaycees, while this is something that carried on whence he moved back to sugar

He was a member of the jaycees, but he was all so a member of the democratic party is well yeah, so TED Bundy was a republican and John wayne. Gacy was a democrat. So that's why I'm an independent but Gacy was able to get more people to sign up for the jaycees, and more people to sign up for the democratic party than any one else in the area, and he was to his old tactics. He was, he was even given some awards. You, like man of the year awards and things like that, and you know he did this for his work with the jaycees, but but also with the democratic party. He was throwing these extravagant parties.

But they were also those parties that we talked about before marino, where going with egg foo gave us a lot of booze more than these hot some gambling, but it would end up with these stag films, maybe hire some strippers. Some set sometimes escorts, and things like that end is less, but this perspective a low. But this is people in the community getting together people of power and the community getting together and being persuaded by stack, films, yeah and other foolishness. Right I mean it's, it's that stuff exist yeah! It's that's to me as creepy as hell, it's weird in it, but again for Gacy, it's waste yet his membership in roman up and into me. It also shows that some of these new comers, these new bees so to be there, in my opinion, more for these crazy parties, rather than to actually be involved in the community itself. These animals are probably littering everywhere,

It's around round this same time that John Wayne Gacy unleashed his new creation pogo the clown heap. Comes a clown and I know at different parts in his little clown expense meant her whatever he was doing, that that he did go under different names, but I believe pogo. The clown is the most accepted one that that he, you know fancied himself most popular one, but hey Gacy, put on your cup son put on your cup. Well, he like, I said he unleashes new creation, of pogo the clown get John wayne Gacy was a clown, I'm going to unleash a punch to your nuts. He entertained children at parties and even volunteered at local hospitals. You know to try to cheer up the kids and and maybe it's just because we we know now about John wayne Gacy, but looking at those pictures I mean other than him being fact, You know other than him being a pudgy guy plus size.

it. The model he's still, he still creepy. inclined to me. I don't know if it's been again, I don't know if it's because we know about him, or if you are one of the things that I notice was. You know the mouth at the way he painted the mouth that most clowns paint circular mouth in his head points yeah. He points at the end, ah yeah you'd think, but you know, and book you'd think you know wait aside. You'd think that maybe you know santa claus is jolly right so that maybe it'd be jolly clown. But I think because of the points on the mouth is really kind of what gave it away and also you know John wayne had these these pointy eyebrows. You know just that he he inherited, so I

those, those two elements is kind of what makes pogo a little creep ho well and before we get to far down on another road. Let's go ahead and go through this portion of John wayne. Gacy life him in his wife start having marital problems and its believed that some of this stemmed from her picking up on gay, he's homosexual desires. Now we had said earlier that you know she was aware of his prison sentence, that is where she was aware of his bisexuality, yeah and he's she's, probably aware of his version of his prison sentence and why he was guilty, but yes she's aware that he he is bisexual, but at the same time no she's also finding magazines around the house with lots of naked men in them books about gay fantasies and he's very casual nonchalant about kind of leave.

These all over the house and in almost every room of the house as well, but it did law and I dont think that matters. If it's you know homosexual thoughts or just admiral sexual thoughts. I think if your with somebody there's a lot of times that you'd be offended, you know like if you're just you know, there's play boy magazines everywhere. Think at some point It might go hey. He can. He just picked us up yeah. Now you got thrown in my face like this. Well, you have to show respect for your spouse as well as there's the children that are in the house as well. You know you can't just you shouldn't just be having these lying around, but at the same time he's also becoming a little more violent. His here, personality is changing as far as she is concerned, and at this point

he's yelling, alot he's peace, even throwing furniture at times when he gets upset, has become in his father. Yes, this sort of thing is what's going on and it eventually carol would file for divorce that the couples divorce became final in nineteen. Seventy six, so yeah drinking is getting heavier becoming more violent, ah he's having more sexual. Desires- and this is all going to come to a big flame yeah and the two of them have basically no romance between the two of them for quite some time as well. Now I I had to go down that road before we we got to this because we're going to go down the romance road. Yeah. Ok, I love you captain now we're going. start talking handed in introducing some new people hear about. These are certainly key persons to this story and, to this case and the first one that I wanted to introduce a seventeen year old johnny but which I think he's been

waiting all data say that no book by any, Johnny worked for John wayne Gacy last name and in fact, in the book, buck fitch Fact they worked a lot of hours together and they even hung together off of the clock at one point They are around each other, so much, and so often that people started referring to them as big john and little John and johnny or little john to some was like most young man. He was, he was into cars. He took great pride in his sixty eight die. Not only did he drive it and race it, but he was always working on the vehicle as well and having this job allowed. Him to you know, work on this vehicle and spend some money on his car. John did. Remodeling work for Gacy at medium contractors possess that he enjoyed a position that paid him well and also have your boss, that's probably get a new booze and he can't get booze at the time.

We also so everybody knows you know when your name teen, twenty and you're trying to get some booze. Everybody knows they're twenty one or twenty two year old friend. That would get them booze right. I you keep that contact close right even as the as they were. However, there they're working relationship relationship ended abruptly when Gacy refuse to pay johnny for two weeks worth of work. I am angered at Gacy, an anger that he had withheld his pay. Johnny went over to his boss's house. This was with two friends to try to scare Gacy and to try to collect his money and when Johnny confronted Gacy about the paycheck ac refused to pay him and now, of course, we have a large argument. Johnny threaten that he was going to tell the authorities that John Gacy was not deducting taxes from the earnings

casey was enraged any screamed at him and we have this big fight going on. But what ends up happening is johnny, and friends basically realised that there wasn't a whole lot that they could do about this situation. And they originally your kind of shit out. Look at this point yet he's just not gonna give you any money and, at the end of the day they end up leaving casey's house johnny dropped off his friends at their homes and he drove away and then he's never seen alive again but later on, will have an odd explanation of this story coming from gaze, he himself yes, the next person we want to talk about his michael bone, and now he was about seventy years. Old is well, and he did it. in june of seventy six. Situation where he was supposed to catch a train. He was going to meet his step. Fathers brother at some location authorities, are not certain that Michael ever got on that train

there, but they know that he never made it to me. His step. Fathers brother, he just simply disappeared. He's not seen to them. Right now, in the same area, we have a. We have more boys gone missing. Yes, the next boy is billy carol, junior he's the kind of kid that was all is getting into trouble at the age of no billy at the age of nine, and he was in a juvenile home for stealing a purse. At the age of eleven, he was caught with a gun and he gotten more trouble now billy in and out of trouble his whole life he spent most of his time on the streets and uptown chicago now at the age of bout. Sixteen bill he was making money by arranging meetings between teenage boys and adult clientele for money. That's doubling put him in a compromise position. Yes, because I dont know if it was because of billy's

little business that he had, but he knew John wayne Gacy and ultimately, just like johnny and Michael that we just spoke of Billy also disappeared. Suddenly this was on june thirteenth of nineteen. Seventy six billy left his huh and he was never seen alive again. Do you have any other boys that went missing? We have gregory, god sick. He actually had a job with pity. M ink works approach, for John wayne Gacy, and he in mind the odd jobs that he was picking up or the work that he would do, but on december twelfth nineteen, seventy six, a gregory dropped. His date off at her home, a girl that he had had a crush on for some time and and been seeing her for a little bit and he drove off she as in the direction of his house, but the following day police. Found gregory's car. This was a nineteen sixty six pontiac, but Gregory was nowhere to be found. He was

he was seventeen years old at the time. january of nineteen. Seventy seven nineteen year old, John, seek also disappeared much like the other young men before him, he had driven off, in his nineteen. Seventy one plymouth satellite and he was never alive again, but singly enough, a short while after the young man vanished. Another teenager was picked up by police, nineteen. Seventy one plymouth satellite, while trying to if a gas station without paying for the ghastly thee, young man was a one Michael Rossi and said that the man that he worked with could explain the situation, this being the situation with the vehicle. The man that he worked with was John wayne Gacy and and police met with Gacy Gacy explained to the police that zeke had sold him. The car soul. John Wayne Gacy the car and it John seek wanted to

away any needed some money to take off into get set up elsewhere so he sold John wayne Gacy the car before he hitchhiked out of town Gacy then went on to explain that he gave the car to his employ Michael rossi and trade for some labour, so other than paying him for a bunch of work? That Rossi did? He ends up giving him the car? Why dont think a lot of stuff? What would happen if he was like honest sexual fender, where I know there are some corrupt registry right, because all the stuff that happen in iowa is not carrying over to chicago knows. So we don't really have that on his record in obviously com for getting a little suspicious at this point as well. And the thing we ve seen with Gacy too is yeah. There might be some people that are aware of this sodomy charge that the he had in iowa or where the ease spent some time in prison, because the thing with cases he'd like to

Why did he liked to talk to people? But he also liked to lie in embellish stories about himself, so I see him possibly telling some of these seventy. eighteen year old boys that yet you know, No, I'm a real man. I've been to prison before you know, oh, what were you? But now you get answer the question. Well, what were you in prison for and I'm real man, because I like real boy, yeah average, but then you get John wayne Gacy version of why he was imprisoned, help embellishing improper He just lying about the situation. We also have Robert Gilroy, the he was an avid outdoorsman camper. He loved horseback riding on september of teen. Seventy seven he's eighteen years old. At this time, Gilroy was supposed to catch of bus with some friends to go horseback. Adding, but he never shows up for this event. Now Gilroy father, that's the second one drank catch bus

yeah gilroy father is a police sergeant, chicago police sergeant at the time and immediately began searching for his son and they on unleashed a fee. Scale investigation with big time searches. You know even though they did all this effort. Nothing turn up and when the leads stopped coming in Robert gilroy was still missing. this is all going on John wayne gaze. He has employed by the name of David cram right that well a core to the documentary. The guy's name is David cram. Now, let's talk about this, but go ahead because now we both watched a bunch of dockers on him. An are there's to some facts that just not lining up some of the names summer, some story. these are the same, but some of the night, ams are the same. You know what I wonder about the captain is when you, when you watch some of these documentaries. Ok, first of all,

John Wayne Gacy documentary there's a whole batch of amounts, I mean there's a ton of em out there, but but their typically. What like forty minutes, two may be one hour long This is a much longer and much necessary to be long, a story to tell then forty minutes or an hour. Long there is a whole lot more of a story. Here the thing that I worry about. With some of these documentaries. We ve seen it and other once you know that we see on netflix and amazon, prime and things like that sometimes they lump sum of these stories together right, and so names get miss. You know they get mash together. Timelines get a little bit, blurry show, so this story could become from David or it could be coming from It could be coming from. I use the name Michael Rossi, earlier The thing here is captain. You know that

Norway case it gets even more convoluted because he lived in iowa for a while, and then he lived in chicago for awhile and a lot of stuff that he did. He did in both places in both locations, so that makes it more confused. But when you watch there's one documentary in particular where they name this character, David cram now mind you. He is it's one of those issues, they put the light behind him. He sitting in a chair. His face is kind of dark and out. You can't see his face were well, and then they just gotta. They flashed this named David cram, while his story goes like this, so whether its It orbits this process, character or or some other name altogether rate. The the story is that the cross space he is originally hired to dig judges and this cross base. It doesn't know why. Now what can? happen and like a half basement. If you have across space, you can dig out that cross base and then make your basement full basement. That's a very tough they do, but

can do that. So he doesn't really know why his digging these trenches and this cross base, but he does there. There is actually, depending on who you talk to there's a few different stories as to why Gacy wanted these trenches dug in this crawl space right zone, one of the stories being that there were they were going to insert some kind of pipes front that we're going to go down and they neither the trenches for pipes. The other story be that there was a foul odor that was in the house, and that Gacy was telling people that it was coming from this crawl space because it would typically get saturated Water brand water would just kind of sit in there and it would just it would unleash this foul odor throughout the entire home

was trying to rid the house of this of this structural problem that was going on right. So this kid is, you know, he's sixteen years old, seventeen years old, digging the trenches in the crawl space of John Wayne Gacy his house. Eventually, he rents a room from him, so he would come home and- and he he'd lived there for a short period of time, working for for John and doing maybe probably working in the community for other people as well, but one night he comes home, and I this just, I think super creepy. He comes home and John is sitting there and his pogo outfit out dressed full clown, get up and he's drinking he's like hey, join me. Let's have some drinks a smoke, some pot and Gacy was

Big by this point, he's probably a pretty big drinker, and you know I'd heard stories that he would drink four glasses of vodka and things like that right. So he he's he's pretty wasted already he's lit and David is drinking with him and he brings out these handcuffs and he's kind of shy. m, attract like how he here's, how you put on the handcuffs and here's how you get out of it. They remember how talk about like when you're kitty of the fake handcuffs, and they have these little like low switch on em on the side. So you can just push at low lever and opens up so we kind of talk, that he probably had to set the handcuffs, he probably had a trick. Handcuff like here to watch me I put on the handcuffs and look

I can get out of it. You try them on so when he goes to try him on, he can't get out of it and he said well. How do you get out of this thing goes? Well, you gotta know the trick. He goes well what's the trick. He said, while the trick is have a key right inserts laughin. So he soon therein is for clown. Git up right, just laugh and like a little kid like ha ha ha ha ha ha. I got you. I got you and now at this point his poking them poconos, I gotcha you can get out. This acted like a kind of a crazy person, so this individual that is tied up. He then says you know you gotta. Let me out, you know and he's still be a nice at this point is still gonna play for

John's been weird dancing around with the pogo outfit on, but this guy eventually says hey. Look he gotta! Let me out or I'm gonna, kick your ass n. This sets kc into a rage right so thou. He is fighting basically for his life against Gacy, but he's in handcuffs, and he basically is able to, because Gacy is so intoxicate If he's able to knock Gacy over grab the key run to the room that he's running get himself out, he leaves in a couple of days later moves out on a of John Wayne Gacy his house. The crazy thing to me is, could you imagine a big? You know it? Gacy wasn't tall, but he was a

your guy. He was, he was short and stocky writing, but still a lot of mass and he's drunk goes into a rage and that's not the creepy part. The creepy part is you're in handcuffs yeah, I don't mind punching you in your face, John, when Gacy you? But if my hands are tied behind my back, I'm shit. I love you. Good luck, fighting that fight! Now it's just every time. I hear that story. I've heard it maybe three or four times but have time I hear is always the same hands, get all sweaty. Well, here is another creepy story for you here captain and this took place in may of nineteen. Seventy seven. Seventy eight, I'm sorry the cargo illinois, a man by the name of Jeff ring all now He had recently returned from a vacation to florida. He decided to visit in area called new town, it's a popular area of Chicago because he wanted

check out some of the many popular bars they had there, as well as disco clubs in that area. Now, while bach bar hopping and walking through the area, he sees a black oldsmobile now inside the view goal is a heavy set driver and the driver leaned out from the window and he's complementing this man on his unseasonably. You know how unseasonably tat he is, and this sparks up a conversation and they renewed with some small talk and eventually the driver then asked if Jeff wanted to smoke a job and right around in his car and they just ride around town and smoke. A couple joints well sounds like a good idea to Jeff, so he hopped in the call. This sounds like off awful idea. They drive off there talking or smoking driving around when all

the sudden the heavy set driver attacks Jeff. He grabbed him and quickly shoved a rag over his face. Now the rag was danced with chloroform Jeff lost consciousness. Now Jeff was kind of going in and out of consciousness for quite some time at one point, while he was awake, he could see ST sites, and you know the car still moving and he's trying to see these streets signs and try to figure out where the car is going. Maybe where he's being taken one? He doesn't know this area right and and of course,. He would only be awake for a short period of time. For short, little spurts of time before blacking out again on one of these times he came to

The stranger again grabbed him and covered up his face with this chloroform soaked rag when he passed out again at some point, Jeffrey members being inside of hope and the driver was there and they both are naked. At one point, Jeff remember: Seeing on the floor. Several several dill does and the stranger she was threatening him and telling him how he was going to use them. Jeff no was viciously, raped and tortured for hours, and but thank god that he had been drugged and knocked out for most of it now the next morning, Jeff awoke from a from these blackouts, but but when he wakes up he's now fully clothed and he's propped up

against the statue and Chicago's lincoln park. He was in a lot of pain. amazing amount of pain and he went to the hospital where He ended up staying therefore, six days, Jesus Christ. Now during this hospital stay, Jeff reported the abduction and the rape to police, but he could only provide the police with a little information regarding the attack because he was blacking out over and over again he he could recall the vehicle, a black oldsmobile. He gave them a disk, option of the heavy set man that was driving the vehicle and he could tell them basically useless information about some of the details of the inside of the house, like the the color the carpeting or patterns on the carpeting you're in that city of Chicago. Yet in here's the thing this is this you know

you're in a whole lot of pain you're in the hospital for six days. That should explain to most of us how how beaten up this guy was he's in the hospital for six days and you're, giving this report- and you can you probably mad at yourself, because you can only remember little bits of information and the police. Basically they they are worth leat, hell, Jeff that they were not hopeful that they would be able to find the guy that did this, let alone convict him of anything. because because really they didn't have any information or much to confirm who this abductor could be Jeff suffered. Several skin lacerations bird, and he also suffered from permanent liver damage, believed to be caused from the the chloroform and, of course he saw

for severe emotional trauma as well. Obviously, but he was, he was fortunate enough to be alive, because what what Jeff didn't know was did the man who attacked and raped him, while not many of the people escaped that man s very few v many of his ever survived now. Here's one crazy thing, though after Jeff got out of the hospital and after he was able to kind of shake off, some of this trauma and get over the fear of the whole thing that it just happened. He decided he was going to go back to that. side of town, because it was kind of like a party side of town. It was price where people you know smoke a little dope. Maybe pick up a girl or pick up a guy whatever, and he thought you know what I'm going to go back to that site, a town because he had this

He had this black oldsmobile vehicle that he that he got into. He had the image that thing tat dude on his brain. He had they the you on the vision of whoever attacked him. You know, if I can see this guy again, I can catch him go and he alternately went back to that side of town several times until he ended up spotting the vehicle that he believed was the one that abducted him and he wrote down the license plate and he was later able to provide that license. Plate number to the chicago pity a lot more that we have to get to morrow the complete Unravelling of this psychopath John Wayne Gacy so join us back here tomorrow in the garage for everything. True crime go to true crime, garage dot, com and until next time be good, be kind and don't let her

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