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the business everybody gather around grab a chair, gravel beer and let's talk some true, cried this true crime garage- and this is the case- a joshua demand Every week we pick a case to cover. We have a giant masterless recrossing, looking at it, trying to figure out. What's the next in arresting thing to talk about course course, there's some points you're cases zodiac germany, ramsay. Sometimes

cases. I've never heard of recovered the west Memphis three and then, following that we covered the black dahlia. Sometimes you just don't want to talk about that stuff. Sometimes it gets too much. I'm goin through the list See a name that I don't recognize case. I've never heard of Joshua geatmen college phil, minnesota. Josh went missing in two thousand to decide. Just his name is my friend's name. She must have just for case must be the reason why I put it on the list, so I found a friend so what you know about rational, because I thought as whenever cover that case, there's not a lot.

nation about. It said that popular. She said that she saw his name on a list of missing people cases. She googled him an image popped up, something about that image struck a chord, a nerve. She saved that picture on or phone I did the same, I googled him tawny, really. This guy just went missing was The party one minute just disappears. Looks very familiar to me. It's piping! as he looks a lot like my best friends. Metal scorn high school, even hung out alone in college goes by. You lose touch

what's interesting about the missing person case. It's pretty simple one minute: there's somewhere next man, they vanish joshua was aged twenty. He was a junior in college, ST john's, which is located in college bill. Minnesota college bill. Minnesota doesn't get much more norman rockwell than that. The party was on the north end of campuses and the dorms there's november. Ninth soda. So we know it's cold. With somebody's getting together. You know, have a couple of beers play those cards a smoke. Some scars talk about women, joshua to the party knowing lived about three minutes away so Josh's at the party. They play some cards, they drink some beer.

And between eleven p m the midnight his last see ass, he stepped out for a smoke just to get some fresh air you gonna go. The restroom was rosy in the party go back to his apartment,. the problem was he never return to the party Gallo worried so they called his apartment. There is no answer It is assumed that Josh loved the party went back to his apartment, fell asleep and was either to intoxicated or too tired to answer the phone. So nothing too weird, maybe have all been at parties where maybe it's not that much fun.

He's want to go home, they just about Maybe he said bye and people just don't remember, because they were drinking themselves either way, not much to suspect until the next day, Josh doesn't show up to school event. His worries, his friends and a missing in case the more twist there are the more fascinating. Is you go down the little rabbit holes and then you start thinking about all these possibilities. It's like a thinking game. I think that's why people like these cases so much. I just assume with Josh his case was an amazing twist. You went to a party, he went missing. It was simple And maybe that's why it's not that popular.

Maybe that's why I've never heard of this, but a couple days after Josh goes missing. We get our first someone was on Josh's computer three hundred documents go missing. Well, there's a twist It is always more than one twist sure there will be more True crime garage- and this is the case- a josh- demand

in new orleans, twenty twelve burst catch here I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist. Ass he stood in the park. What were the address should have been. He was shot and killed. I'm deal. You d join me for the newest season of counter clock, as I die the motive behind bruces murder. a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now binge all fourteen episodes of or clock season five, wherever you listen to podcast. Support for this programme comes from arkansas escape to Natural state, outdoor adventures to indoor attractions in just a few miles, or a few minutes near at all. What faraway planet trip at arkansas dot com hey, it's blue, see our blow bunny. Our research shows that humans, like things that are many,

like our many swirled or many gulf, or many poodles, our dedicated lemme bunnies hours excited is ever to announce their newest development. In many innovation, blue body, many buyers, millions eyes mighty in crunch, you couldn't I have too many, I mean be too many or sorry have too many many slew bunny. We make fun. saint Johns university, was founded in eighteen. Fifty seven was one of the oldest institutions of education in the mid west and as among the top rated liberal arts. Colleges in the nation said a made twenty seven hundred acres of campus, including wetlands, several lakes and extensive pine and hardwood forest. In two thousand and two twenty year old joshua game on his a junior majoring in political science at saint John university in college ville minnesota.

On november ninth Josh was with friends at a party some time between the eleven o clock, our and midnight he was leaving me in court, a dormitory on the north end of Saint John campus Josh, was leaving to go to the bathroom, but when he did not return after about fifteen minutes, his friends assume that he had walked back to his apartment. Josh lived in the campus apartments, and so he is about three minute walk from the party yeah. He was living at the saint Maur house, which is located in the middle of campus and in fact, after his friends last saw, Josh's was just shortly afterwards they tried calling the apartment I got no answer. There is no evidence that Josh ever arrived at the apartment yeah. I think they were just assuming that. Maybe he drank a little bit too much or maybe he was just tired. it's saturday stove ember night, it's saturday I mean he might have had stuff he had to do. He was purple

in for a school bent the next day and some say party, but we have a lot of people have said that this was more of a low key kind of thing that there is not too many people there. There is only, I believe, ten or eleven people there in aceh, more like it was a card part, and this is two thousand and two. I remember a lot of my buddies starting to get really in and to Texas hold 'em. At this point. Oh yeah, it was huge at the time everybody was getting together. Drinking beers hanging out playing poker, ten dollar by and twenty dollar by, and it was good good way to pass the time and spend the night came out with your friends, josh goods. This hang out party right he's hanging out with his buddies, they're playing a little poker or drinking. He leaves it's not that big of a deal that he does dips out. I mean this happens all the time, especially at college parties. You kind of come and go as you please and then

they kind of get worried because he doesn't say anything or they don't remember him saying by say, call his apartment again. Nobody answers, not a big deal again he's just tired. It's you know: Saturday's slate The following day, though, they have a school function and Josh never shows up yeah. He failed to attend the school function and it was. I have that it was a mock trial that he would have been involved in yeah. He was a political science, major and from everything I read it seems like is really good student. His have involved as as far as like extra school activities after he was part of like the young republicans club. So it was odd that he missed this thing. that takes a little situation and makes a bigger situation get everybody. Regards him as quite responsible and somebody that would miss something of this magnitude, his family,

friends also go on to say that he's not even the kind of person that would leave the party to dip out. that stuff happens every now and then but again I think it's important that they bring up. That point he's one to say: hey guys, I'm out of here, so his friends reported missing his his roommate actually says that he never saw Josh that night in the night of the card game and he never saw the following day. So after Josh's reported missing, they discover that his eye glasses is contact lenses, his identification and credit card were left behind. They couldn't find any personal items that would be missing from his apartment and also seems like his car wasn't touched or moved from the location. It was earlier that Saturday yeah the cars found undisturbed and at the time that Josh vanished, he was not wearing clothing. That would be appropriate. Or a november night in minnesota by young lives, three months away from the party. So maybe, where he's

a hoodie some shorts. I just says a swing over by. You know this party for just a minute the missing posters report, that joshua was wearing a grey gap or saint Johns university, hooded, sweatshirt, blue jeans and a wristwatch joshua demand is described as a caucasian male. Twenty years old. Five foot tend to about six foot tall, a hundred and seventy two hundred seventy six pounds, but blonde hair, blue eyes, any as a medium complexion. He also has a scar on his shoulder, which is about four inches, law, that's very much a run down of that day and that night and then the next day and the The cops are going to get involved in his family's going to get more involved as well as far as what happens with Josh beforehand. Well, he had a girlfriend for like we said he was a junior in college. He had a girlfriend for about five years and a month before this party

and then his girlfriend took a break, but they were really good friends. They may remain in contact. I dont know if she went to school in that area or if she was further away, but it seemed like a you know. He was deal with that situation pretty well. So let's talk about the search for joshua in that I'm line that is involved now. We do know that on sunday he wasn't reported missing until pretty late in the day, so they did search the area, but the search was pretty minimal because they they were conduct the search after dark now. On monday, the following day, the entire saint John campus and surrounding areas were searched by horse and by foot, including buildings, the power plant and all the wooded areas. Divers from the stones, county, sheriffs department, search, the campus area and a dog led them to a

water area- and I think this dog leading the police to this water area, started this theory. That joshua was just maybe intoxicated left the party, and then stumbled into a body of water and the body of water that we're talking about. Would have been located between where he was last seen, leaving the card party walking home towards his apartment. Please do several searches and body is water and will go into that more detail, but nothing was found no end also on that monday. The minnesota state patrol aided in the search by sending helicopters to do an aerial search of the woods and around the campus on Tuesday november twelve campus buildings continued to be searched and on Wednesday november thirteenth, the minnesota national guard stepped into aid in the search providing one hundred and eighteen troops and equipment and searching sixteen square mile area around the campus. This include

swamps and woods, but this campus twenty seven hundred acres, so I mean yeah, they got a little taskforce out, but it still truck like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Yes, twenty seven hundred acres and we a lot of area that's covered in woods. We have some swamps that we mention and also lots of water, the boss water that the captain had referred to earlier is known is stumped lake. This is a snake like body of water, located in rout that joshua would have taken to back to his upon the decision was made to lower the water level in order to search the lake now dragging the lake and searching it uncover no clue and obviously during the search, his family and friends are way more involved than they were earlier, but now the fathers involved, yet so on Thursday Brian game

he's the father. He attended a meeting in a press conference at the state capital for families of three other missing students and he met the Jenkins family who would later help the game on family and their search for jobs sure. So this is where we get another twist. This school doesn't have a problem with one kid get gone missing. They have a problem with now three kids going missing. Well, it's the area, it's more more of an area rather than just the the one school, but who is the Jenkins family? The jenkins, lay there, the family of Christopher jenkins, who is a twenty one year old, who was last seen october, thirty first, two thousand and two he was leaving halloween party, bar in minneapolis minnesota. Now this is a that I've heard about a lot with the brine schaefer case. We covered the brine shaver case, christened jenkins cases, a case that people said over time and time again, this seems so similar and chris was added

between party, which I just think that makes it way. Croupier and you're talking about two kids about the same age, going missing almost at the exact same time. This is only nine or ten days apart from one another in the same state, and I dont think that Christopher Jenkins was a college student he's often referred to as a college aged man, so we're not certain if he was attending school, but the area that he went missing from is approximately about two hours. drive from where joshua was last seen, yeah and was seen by the school has a problem with three kids going missing. It's not three students gone missing, but it's just bad for business. When there's publicity of you know, college age

Units gone missing from around your area, it's bad for enrollment. This would bring us to november twenty fourth, two thousand and two. There is a search that is organised by the demon family that involves seventy five to a hundred volunteers. Now some of these people from out of town they get together and they calm the woods around the saint John campus and It's also a search again of that stump lake. This time they are using sonar technology now. This is again unsuccessful in yielding any evidence in the disappearance. The first week of december of the same year, the Stearns county sheriff's department they get together and they start questioning the eight well. There was actually nine students that were present at the

card party, the night the joshua disappeared their table, which goes with our speculation. Then it wasn't like this big party. I don't know, if that's the right term for this, this was a. This was a get together right. This was a couple of guys getting together having beers playing cards, maybe a little bit of you know that in a little money haven't good time in their able to question aid of those nine student Now, however, they were unable to contact the remaining stood to your kid gone missing, and you just can't find one of whom you get me. It's not that many people stand Many people that are you need to talk to you now, that we're talking about like three and a half for weeks later that were able to around

these students and talk to him. I know that their I know, there's a break in therefore thanksgiving. You know lambs assuming the students may have gone home to see. However, that is not a huge school. This is a huge problem. This is at least estate wide issue as far as what's gonna become an coming out in the newspapers not only that on Monday after Joshua went missing. He, the roommate joshua's roommate, tells the police that that last time I saw him was around eight thirty, the night he went missing. He left to go to a card party, so they know they know within two days of where he was and who else saw talking to me that we're we're taking art I'm sitting on our hands now I say, sitting on our hands because they were searching the campus but with generous in is that he saw at eight thirty. He leaves his apartment with it and is as were make claims. He sees him by eight thirty elite so proud.

About eight thirty five, eight forty he's arriving at this low card gathering less than a couple hours later he's leaving yeah so maybe just ran out of money. Maybe maybe it's sunday not that interested, hard. Sometimes you lose. You know to me there's nothing more frustrating if you're, if Europe, especially at that time, everybody, paying taxes hold autumn, a lotta people were planned poker, I'm just assuming they were playing poker, but I know times that I get but kicked or I lose. You know african hours plain euchre. They could have been playin yogurt, but some people are competitive and I, when I lose sometimes I go home, sometimes go home right afterwards, not send you home. Now the investigators bring in a bloodhound they're gonna, try to track. Joshua was sent and z, Are they? You know see what his movements war, because we have no idea where on they are, did this once, but it went to the lake yeah and

time. On december, twenty ninth hoover the bloodhound. He follows joshua's sent from met in court, where he was last seen by that stuff lake that we talked about, and then he follows the scent further to joshua. Movement at saint moors and then from there. He takes them to saint Johns abbe the the searches then halted. Then the dog is blocked. From entering saint John Abby, and we just happened to be at marker six x, six right now, which is pretty odd, cause we're going to start talking about the church that is connected. The monastery, that's connected to St John's university, so they're going to follow this sent to this lake and then to his apartment, but then from the apartment to a monastery yeah, which is a very large building and they're stopped so you're trying to

This missing student and the university is stopping you to me. That is shady shades bill. Is it the universe? city or is it the monastery that because I believe that while they are operating together in some fashion that they may actually be somewhat separate entity even though that they belong together and I dont know a normal like the dean and stop has no say over the monastery in the monastery present no say over the university in this. An old prestige is thing. I don't know that this is a building that the general public is welcomed and too often, if ever yeah well. But when you have us nothing dog and some police officers, you would think, but maybe not so much when ali, that we're tied to this

cool okay in this school in this whole thing as a community right? It's a community of people living amongst one another, some there for education, whether it be religious or or just working, to get a job or to get a degree in some fashion and now we are halting this investigation, or stopping. You were closing our doors, because maybe you ve knocked on the wrong. Or maybe you ve not on the right or maybe you ve not, a door that we don't want you to knock on record, just not gonna. Let anybody in here and The problem, though, is a lot of times. Religion goes above the law and that nets that big issue. You know it's supposed to be separation of church and They and all that bullshit. That normally doesn't happen. We normally for some reason in this country at we hold religion higher than law. Well, and I think a big problem with this case is that that's exactly the fact in this community that we just escaped.

I think that the written the religion there is the law on January fit two thousand and three now they're, going to open up their doors they're gonna. Let the investigators, along with again hoover, he's the bloodhound that they ve put in charge of finding Joshua's sent. He traces Joshua was sent to the back of which is a very large building the monastery there and then he follows that sent again too lake behind the monastery. So now that I had a chance to clean up a monastery, get of all the evidence, come on in czech, everything out, everything's, fine well on january. Eighth, there are the steering county. Sheriffs department would send divers into multiple bodies of water, on the campus now one of them that they didn't send any divers into is the

is the one that the monastery said. Don't look into that one year they ended up using only underwater cameras, but this again we find no evidence of joshua nothing to too. You know give us any clues as to why how disappeared, but woe. If we go with the set, then we can have doom that he went from the party walked around the lake, went to his apartment and then went to the monastery. If edward. If we're gonna believe hoover the bloodhound, then that's what that's where the trail takes us stand up. Gentlemen so when we left off we're talkin bout, the hound dog hoover, and he followed this track now there are some rumours, because this is not actual. Please dong, right, correct. This is from my god, outside agency, yea, call up and say

we want a sniffing dog and they brought in hoover. And so there are some rumours that he's just not cracked up you now to be he's not fit death. Some people in the area are attacking his credibility. of the search dog hoover want allowed. People said that you know hoover had a drinking problem. Well, and you know with these. As far as these sent tracing dogs, you know weave, we ve often heard did their credibility is brought into check at gives. You know we ve heard things like the dog is only as good as the handler or the hand It is only as good as the dog now we'd. We don't know in this situation. We what we you know is that, on more than one occasion, this dog has followed the same, trace, he's trace the same areas and but now keep in mind we're talking about searches that are conducted a month

after the fact, two months after the fact, and we have the monastery and the college cannot impeding on this investigation and I find that very odd, well and, furthermore, that that thought January eighteenth, two thousand and three, the searchers, are asked to stop searching with the scent tracing dog hoover, and the campus is saying that pets are not allowed on campus in on this. This is what seems ridiculous to me my god, yeah pets aren't allowed on campus, but we have a missing person that we're looking for well. What saint John is going to say is that they don't mind that they are not trying to stop the searches they're, not trying to stop the investigation for Josh. What they're saying is that they only want to have searches, thither conducted and coordinated through the stones, county, sheriffs department and obviously this becomes.

Issue for Brian Josh's, dad because again makes it seem like their time, your hands behind your back and you're, trying to find answers to what happened to your son in the middle of january. Two thousand and three, the game on family is notified. The private searches can be conducted as long as the abbot is notified prior to the event and the Stearns county sheriffs department appeal use of the action. I think a lot of this is to you know image to uphold for one and it you college is a business. She knew the kids in its common answer. Maybe the searches are just taken place too often, and this kind of sporadic and its causing too much of a scene at the same time. This is when they allow the searchers to return and they bring again with them hoover and they are searching the permit around the lake that is behind the monastery now

this is middle of january, so they are going to have to use drills to drill holes in the ice and they use cameras and their dipping them down into the water trying to see if they can see anything now they don't find anything with using these cameras or having the dog sniff around the perimeter, february, twenty seven, two thousand and three. This is when are going to find the body of Christopher jenkins and the mississippi river Where did make a mistake, because we said he was just college age, but he actually was a college.

Yeah. He was attending the university of minnesota, a private investigator used bloodhounds in the search for Christopher jenkins when they were conducting their investigation. Now what they found on two separate occasions using two different dogs. Both dogs had traced christmas sent from the bar that he had left. He left of loan trot loan tree bar and grill. They followed his sent from that barn grill to a underground parking garage. It was near by and to actually to some specific parking stalls, and this all indicated that jenkins probably got into a car. Now they think that the car we headed west on I, ninety four christopher jenkins. His cause of death is listed as an apparent drowning. On that same day, they were in private investigators

well is the game and family, along with volunteers, were trying to conduct another search in the saint John university campus mocha. Now they ran into troubles because they want, they wanted to search and area that included to both houses. Now this is a their area that was led to them by the dark? The problem with this is when they arrive to conduct this search, a steering county, sheriffs department. Captain he states that a search warrant is required to search the boat. Houses, again the search is stopped now Brian, and even when the reasons they do. That, though, is because, if they find me evidence that can be tossed out in court later. You're. Exactly right, but Brian game and the father of Josh, I would say that we notified the sheriffs depart. prior to searching this area. There is no reason why they should have halted. The search while theirs

reason that they cannot. I've got a search warrant exactly now we were continue down the entire road of the timeline regarding the year of two thousand and three, because what we see for the remainder of the year is attempts at searching the campus area. and searching those waterways. Now what happens on occasion they are granted permission and they do search the water and they searched the lakes and, again and again, nothing turns up. They find no evidence. of anything, and when somebody is missing, we gotta think about all the options. Right is running away, start a new life. Did he go somewhere to commit suicide? Ah, is he? Is this foul play

it seems like an josh's life as far as before this may seem. Like he's pretty driven. I seems like he's very like a boy he has friends doesn't seem like there's all much motivation for suicide at all. Now they're they're didn't seem to be much speculation regard suicide at all from the gecko and again he did have that girlfriend that he dated four a really long time five years but seem like they were friends. But again you you can't rule that out on the possibility that he was drinking, maybe starts reminiscing. Maybe something there. Maybe there's some information, though I was unable to uncover out to you uncovered so less canada's say that far as going down that rabbit whole. It doesn't make a lot of sense and there's not a lot of evidence pointing towards that definitely and Finally, the thing that I think points out the most is that in the very beginning of this disappearance, what everybody was thinking happened, including campus affair,

those, including the sheriffs department, including his father and family, though the original thought was. Maybe this was an accidental debt. And that they were checking those water? You know the water areas right because I thought maybe he had fallen into something or or that or if he was met with foul play that that's where he would be found now, time and time again, he's not found, obviously, but furthermore took two to even speck, lay at some point at some point you gutters rule out, maybe even an accidental death because involve the water anyway, because they ve search these things too in time again and they're, not even turning up bits of clothing or anything that would would suggest that he was in that water. His family, to this I firmly believe that the that he was met with foul play or some type of abduction situation, because they never found any of that evidence on campus. They never found any of that clothing and again his

his personal belongings were all left behind yeah. Yes, there's not a lot evidence to suggest that he ran away to start a new life tat the unless he's just take leaving in a pair of jeans, a hoodie and a wristwatch right and he's just going to up and leave town there for broke, I mean, but but but doesn't make since then our lot logic based in that thought process didn't take us. Are in, and nobody suggested nobody suggested it. He picked up a bus pass or, plants held earlier. Those I so lower down to now, though, is basically foul play or accidental death and The problem I have with the accent on dental death is one there's a lot of acreage. There's a lot of woods: Lin, there's a lot of waterways it's possible. That year, I know

you're doing a lot of in depth searches but as possible that you just don't find something or that you know he floated further downstream or whatever it is possible. But what is likely? I think what is more likely. I think that the family is probably right here. I think what you're looking at is passed oh abduction situation. Maybe he ended up going with somebody that that played a bad trick on em, worse or or maybe he got into a car or was picked up by somebody. We just don't know in you said yes to two thousand seven hundred acres yeah, that's a big area, we have swamps, we have wetlands, we have woods, we have water the, but the thing is we talk about time and time again. Multiple searches are conducted at one point: the state the state brings in people and there's a hundred and eighteen office.

In the area combing the the the woods again, but that's a lot of acreage to cover, even though that's a lot of people, yeah and but on separate occasions, we have volunteer. Searchers. Have upwards of seventy five to one hundred people searching the area? We have people using technology to search the water, there's just a You know in the buildings there's no, there is really no trace of Josh. So like we mention a while back and we haven't really touched on. It was a couple days afterwards someday accessed Josh's computer and that there is a law speculation here, so one did some break into the computer. Was it possibly Josh, but there was document documents that were deleted from his computer. They believe possibly done by his roommate and their three hundred documents, and these were all related to fake idee, fake idee ring

the claim that Josh was involved in this, but again I documents are on europe. Tudor. So I don't know how you're not involved well and he's twenty years old he's not of legal drinking age. His friends are probably all miller and age. We all know that people drink when they go to college, whether thereof age or not, and Furthermore, we all know that there are fake ideas. You know people use these vague ideas when their nineteen twenty is all to get into certain parties to get into certain bars or clubs or or just make purchases. What I think really more likely in this case, is that once he missing and once their searching, thou apartment and certain other things as that, if his a roommate or friends were involved in and they were running this off of his computer. While, let's get rid of this evidence, one to save our butts but also to you know, we don't want to tarnish our buddy's name even further yeah, I mean

Josh it was probably a stand up guy and from what everybody says: family and friends, wise people on campus. He was every bit of that, a stand up. Guy and, like you said, maybe the roommate was doing his old buddy, a favor or one of the the friends doing them a favor that there was something on his computer that he was either involved in or not, and we're going to wipe it clean to to not tarnish his name, and you know Is it something like it still? It's still does comes a cock crosses kind of fishy. You know it is. It is fishy, it is fishy, but again, we don't know exactly what those documents were. We don't know, would it help or hinder the investigation of his disappearance. We said that Josh was a political science major at the university

now his friends say that he was hoping to become a lawyer and that one day Josh wanted to serve in the minnesota house of representatives has also been discussed. The joshua had on several occasions, been a bit outspoken in its criticism of the abuse scandals that plagued the saint John university and abbe. So Saint John, it's been a catholic church or catholic school, and then you get the monastery in these charges and when you say, abuse these or sexual abuse charges. Well, there's lots of their throughout the eu years there has been lots of allegations- let's say more than rather than charges, and there has been allegations of misconduct in at some. Sometimes this is sexual misconduct as well, whether it be perpetrated by either a teacher or a priest, or one of the monk

but there has been a lot of allegations over the years involving several different people employed or or a part of the monastery or the school it's not uncommon to have these claims against schooler church, but we do know from recent history about all the claims that have come out against the catholic to go along with these different allegations of misconduct, some sexual conduct involving the Saint John university, where the monastery we have something that happened pretty recently. Now this is Sunday january, twenty four two thousand and sixteen reverend dan ward. He is confronted after a presentation that he gives he gave a presentation to an audience of fifty to seventy five people on the campus of Saint John university in college. Veal. Minnesota now

One of father wards alleged victims, attended this presentation. Father ward admitted to the audience that he had met with the alleged victim in the vice president's office. He admits to this after the presentation. So after the presentation, father ward takes questions the first person to take the microphone he at they ask if father ward had ever crossed student teacher boundary lines and with any student or so hence from Saint Johns, prep school or saint John university? Now? Can you imagine a fly on law here right? He gives this presentation and then you go accuser in the audience and then the first question is taste bombshell. Yet have you ever crossed that student your boundary and envy I I'd probably in the back one, awkward and the the young

Lady asking this question, she's pretty thorough because you know she says: did you ever crossed student, bound student teacher boundary lines with any students from Saint John prep school, Saint John university, or any of the novice monks, father ward, he answers now, but she goes on to ask about a mock trial programme and ask about joshua game father dan ward, respond in our most disco back, so we know the importance of this a mock, trial or debate. This is the event that he does not show up for the next day, something that, Russia was involved it father dan war. During this, this interaction here bonds immediately saying that he was in the bahamas when demon was at saint jobs, so Joshua is a junior. So for the three years you never go back to Saint John. Never

however, it is his is short and simple answer- was that while Joshua was at saint johns did father ward was in the bahamas right after demons? Name is brought up abbot, class and he's in charge okay, so he allowed father war to answer questions and allegations about sexual misconduct. weird anyways kill. You think they would have to stop that right there, but after john his name is brought up. Ah he he does answer a question about him. He says I was in the bahamas, but then right after that. Well as another another person there asking questions is asking the father. If he was ever involved a mock trial- and he said yes him at him and another of another priests or another teacher there- they were in charge of the mock trial at one point in his career. Now, the the person asking the questions would

yup? That joshua was a co captain during these mock trials and immediately? This is when abbott gleason takes over and says you know what? I don't think that this is the time or the place to address this issue. So basically, what we have is we have young asking questions about Josh. and then basically say look. I was in the bahamas, but then some ace basically connect the dots you're. The leader of this debate thing and Josh was one the captain's well, there is your connection, they might be insinuating that, but but what I think is is tricky here is that may be. The the timelines. Aren't adding up you know just because he was involved with the mock trial at some point, while, while being present at saint John, does not mean that he was therefore that same time period of note,

for two thousand and two now but the other than it does seem really fishy. Then you we'll let you answer all these other on an appropriate questions. yeah. This is oral, but now we're stopping you once their connecting some dots now or stopping you. Not only that what's what's even more strange captain is the father were it is allowed to be back in a corner. You know this abbot police and he does get involved in and break break up. The discussion until Josh's name is brought up, which is strange because, like I said, father ward was backed a corner, the first young lady. That was asking him questions that that was talking to him. He says something about the she said something about didn't. You ask me to forgive you when we were in the vice principal's office when you did, something something and then didn't you ask me to forgive you right in the father, father ward says

No, I never asked you to forgive me. He does admit to being in the vice principal's office with this young lady, but he says that he's not willing to discuss something that has already been settled right. The details, as whatever matter there talking about so so I dont understand here. We have we have a guy in charge who who clearly can take the microphone and can take over the presentation at any point, an in call the shots but he allows father war to be back in a corner by this person with the questions and then he he called off the you know. As soon as Josh's name is brought up, he calls off the questions, all that's his job, but what What's interesting to me as what, if he would have this guy knows about some shady stuff, those gandhi and he's like you don't want. I just want him to feel the heat a little bit. A lot. Look a lot of these lotta priest, a lot of teachers. lot of people have been accused of these kinds of crimes.

And there is normally no justice for the victims that normally how this stuff goes. All we got a priest. and their molesting somebody em we're just gonna move em. We don't wanna talk about it. We don't we're just gonna move on from one church to another. Look all those scandals that came up that those those priest didn't face criminal charges. They did criminal activities, they did not face criminal. charges and that's injustice that the fact that were all not screaming for their heads, I dont know that doesn't make any sense to me. I want to be absolutely clear here, I'm not saying or suggesting that father ward, father dan ward head anything to do with the disappearance of Josh. What I'm saying is dead, the weather be father, ward or other persons at saint John university. There is

early, something going on at the time beforehand and end in Josh knew about some of this, whether it be first hand, accounts or hearing it from other students. You know we had heard that he was a bit outspoken about some of these allegations of misconduct that were were rumours throughout the school. There was something going on here and weather there be involving the priest or professors or the monks or it was going on within the university. Now the thing is, like the captain said no a lot of times with with these churches, when something's going down, there is no criminal charges brought against these poor people. There just moved and it's kind of swept under the rug I what went and I've always I've always wondered what is the wooden? How do they come up with that? How do they justify that? That's the right thing to do in those situations, as is the right.

For their organization is the right thing for the organization, but it, but you know I always wondered, was: is it because the you know Jesus was was teaching us to forgive one another right and god is. It is we're tired god is a forgive her, but while yeah, maybe that's what they're thinking, but that will certainly within the catholic religion. That's that's what people are taught an hour Are they saying that you know what we can? We we will forgive are. Fellow man were taught to forgive our fellow man, so they're going to forgive somebody within their organs, and sweep it under the rug and pretend like it never happened. The problem here, though, is something horrible happened on their campus. wasn't just a fellow man somewhere that you need to forgive for for crimes that you don't know anything about. This is this involved. One of your own

This was a person that was on right now. Is that lived on your canvas, the student? This is josh, we're talking about that. He was a part of your community and or maybe you maybe you were taught to forgive and to forget and turn the cheek with with people that that you work with our people that you know about it here big problem, you're. Turning away a person and persons involved in your community when you stopped some of those searches and when you stopped allowing questions to be asked in certain situations regarding Josh, you can't you can't turn the cheek with one thing and just not let not let people be people and not let people in your community carry on when it is not that far fetched. Think that a church organization would cover if their willing to cover up on people being molested raped

of their willing to cover that up. Then you gonna put pass some took not cover up a murder, but the problem here captain is that what what I wanted to see is I won see that the school, the university and the church open up its books, open up its doors and end of reveal everything you know in and assist in this investigation and try to bring some clothes, or to the eve. You know, let's help find this young man or bring closure to the family of the young man, whether it be if there to find anything or not, so that even if they dont finds us They could move on and in in pursue looking elsewhere I'm glad you brought it up. We have to play devils. Advocate you, the pun. I guess We don't really know the situation. Were outsiders? Look in it. Looking at these, there is constant

of them searching. It is possible that the that the campus and the monastery I mean it looks like there's some shady stuff going on, but they did allow people to search. They allow me will search parties. We talked about all the searches that no evidence was found. Maybe a sum they just thought look. This is more of a distraction than anything we have to move forward, so you know Don't wanta harp on him too much, but at the same time, dont have any answers and it didn't seem like they were helping too much with those death. edit it appears to me that may be. This is not an isolated incident that this may be not just a problem that that's a problem for some. Johns regarding Josh's disappearance, but we also have the case of Christopher Jim, tens- and we talked about chris jenkins- trail right now- but how it goes to this,

round. Pardoning arrive there some speculation that his trail assent trail can follow him all the way back to saint John monastery. That is pure speculation. I I couldn't find any evidence to back up this claim me to, but this claim happens for an over and if this is the case now we have a larger problem, not just that area, but to some larger problem in general for Saint John in the monastery yeah well and will increase over jenkins, went missing from minneapolis. So and we also have we ve seen this on other college campuses. You know we ve about it on our show before regarding brine schaefer, regarding well, we talked about it. A little bit with Joseph would show you abuse but you know he wasn't alone age, but it's a little different because it sir, it's not that you know Brian was

Our joy was in a bar. This guy's, coming from the dorms yeah he's coming from from one of one dorm too. the door right. I think it is a little off campus, I would say well maybe the campus does. I have much of a problem, but I mean any college that go to the college. I went to nice campus, and the surrounding areas, weren't so great, but you felt safe on campus I am assuming that the roma in Saint John, the that's a pretty penny, you should feel safe and it's hard to feel safe when you have individual does not small guy five tend to six foot a hundred and seventy hundred eighty pounds just goes missing. Like How are you supposed to feel safe in that

that environment there in the the crazy thing, though, captain is like we said, Christopher Jenkins goes missing, halloween, two thousand and two we have Josh who goes missing just less than two weeks later right. We had Chad share it, and then we have the speculation that jenkins trail goes all the way back. aware: Josh goes missing from. We also have university of minnesota student chad Sharon who went missing December twelve, two thousand and two now this is to suggest a month after Josh goes missing. Now Chad is found february, twelve, two thousand and three and the saint Joseph river, and again we are seeing death is the cause of death is apparent, drown now we also have christopher nor be who

he was a former student of Minnesota who went missing the year before this would be november. Seven, two thousand and one went missing from many apple S, minnesota so a year in two days later, yeah well in two days earlier right right. He goes missing from minneapolis minnesota and he found February eleven, two thousand materials in the mississippi river accident, drowning exactly and we talked out in the brain schaefer case the the What is known as the smiley face killer theory now for those of you that are not familiar this. This involves many remit many young men attending you. intercity or on campus areas having gone missing and then later found in water with what

tags near where they believe they could have gone into the water and are all these people all these victims. So here's within arresting them there, they put it group of people and they say all these guys went missing all these college students went missing Some of them have been found. Some of them have not been found, the ones that have found to have been found in bodies of water. Ok, so that's where whereat of the bodies found. Please, law enforcement have only claim one to be of foul play all the other ones they think or accident Well, that's a lot of kids gone missing. That's a lot of kids! banana grandpas, cough medicine and gone into the river, and these. In most of these cases, we are talking about white young men, attending college

in the mid west area, you we normally privilege schools. We are already seeing for cases of this in minnesota that we just ask tonight right we're we're done about four cases within two years or a year and in a short time period and therefore there are also cases and in the state of illinois indiana. Wisconsin. I think there were several right. Well, allow saying is a one was claim possible foul play than the second one. That at first was ruled accidental drowning was the jenkins case. They have now thought that that's possible that there was foul play on that. So I mean people need to start waken up to this idea. I'm not a hundred per cent sold on the smiley face killer theory, There's a lot of information out there and- and if it keeps piling up, is when does it just stopped being a quince?

since well and I am not fully sold on it either because we're talking about so many people over such a vast area of land, a stretch of land and as a significant stretch of time period as well, the but the poor. bloom. I have here the reason why returned to this theory in this situation, as we are seeing again, it's within two weeks to kids go missing within two weeks with within a year within a year and a month for, go missing within with that live within a court within an hour and fifteen minutes of one another and in three of them were found in water. One of them's never found its it's. It's very strange. It's very strange. then, the day with amazing person cases you just fine, all these little tiny twist on the things that don't sit well with you and I just feel like it

diving into these cases, always just leads me with more questions. What happened here? What happened here? Why was this person involved? Was this person involved? Was this just purely speculation and and that's kind of what bothers me about this kate, these kind of cut these kind of cases, but it's also what fascinates me about them, because there are so many possibilities and, like I said, it's kind of a think tank well and it's going to leave you with. That because in all of well almost all of these situations. We have a similar story where it somebody this with a group of people and then at some point they leave and they off on their own, and we assume that there are their own four minutes or an hour, for, however long it is, and then there seen again or there they wash up somewhere months or a year later, and their found somewhere and it's all those little minutes

when they left that we don't know about what happened? Were they alone? Was it an accident right like a lost, weaken or a captain? Give me your final thoughts on this matter was really frustrating to me and this case, and in so many cases with the abuse scandals is they're, protecting their protecting criminals, they're protecting predators, they're, protecting monsters. You gotta stop that if your entity, is to show the goodness of the lord, then your your enabling monster she or enabling the devil's work so that shit needs to stop period while church, school and community supposed to bring people together. This kind of behaviour does

bring people together. It turns people away will not know. Not only does it turn, people wait torments people at then also these monsters create new monsters, in that its proven time and time again that people that are molested people that have sexual abuse then turn to this and they abuse others. It's shown time and time again, and so this stuff needs does focus. You know and preach the good word and all that stuff, but this stuff, by protecting these priest and these people in power, I you're doing you not doing the god's work doing work and that's what I believe that on this case want to dive into more

nation on if the cases are linked. I understand that on Josh and chris went missing within about two weeks or nine days, but are there more connections that were missing, and I think if you can find those connections that they, you could put more pressure on? Look not only are they connected, but they're all connected to the school year- and I am, I think, I'm with Brian game on here with his with Josh his father. I agree with the family. I think that this is pro probably an abduction type situation and not a vanishing and a. I don't think, there's a zero evidence. I don't think that yeah. I don't think that Josh chose to disappear. I think that you know, I think, that they or their searches were very much warranted and they were they were going to go as far as they could to try to find their loved one, and I and I I'm with the family here. I I believe that we have an abduction type situation. I don't know

Josh got into a car or went along with somebody. But will you gotta applaud his father's effort? You know he was relentless and that's what you have to be and I think a lot of times. The authorities know the law enforcement yeah. They do help, but in some cases sometimes they just stop you and it doesn't ever seem like they're doing enough and when your kid goes missing, of course I think that nobody is doing enough, but I think, in this case are now he had allowed tenacity, and I think that something needs to be proud of your exactly right, because at times it times, law enforcement was helping the family and helping the searchers, and at times the

who was helping and at times the school is not helping and at times the law enforcement was not helping either, but he didn't stop- and I bet you he's not stop to this day and they are all the arm chair, detectives out there. This is a case that you can dive into its it's hard to find information hard to find out, if information that you're finding as factual. So you won't go to our website. True crime, garage dot com will have a blog posts, and you know, any theories are leads. Are anything on their feet frida, pose some links on there I mean there's, there's I'm sure that there is some more stuff out there about the school or about the church that we could dive into that. We just want. We have exhausted all leads at this point, but but there are allegations out there of misconduct, those involved we don't know but but its it is. Is it a coincidence that these things are happening about the same time? It

you know we don't know that wine, like has said, and the trailer, though, sometimes what bothers me is that there are certain cases that are very popular, that people spend a lot of time on and those is not always, but sometimes by these arm. Chair detectives by people like me, new talking about this, There generate new leads. So I think sometimes, when you hear about a case like this, it is an interesting case Ah, but maybe We can see something that they haven't seen before. Well enough, HU, a game and route from what we know about him. He sounds like he was a young man that was in pursuit of big dreams. He had his whole life ahead of him and, unfortunately, he's disappeared and there's there's no grace and furthermore, there is not even a very big digital footprint for this young man. You know, like the captain, had said a lot of times with these cases. You can find things on

two. You can find things on the internet. There is not a lot of talk about joshua's case now. We can do as we can use this episode. This podcast tonight as a kicking off point and you can go to true crime garage dot com will have the blog on there and, let's, let's hear your theories and let's create a bigger, larger digital footprint for josh and for his family and lets. I let this case go cold yeah, because at the end of the day, that's one of the reasons. Why do I mean we're fascinated by our missing person case? But one of the main reasons. Why would do him is to bring light to the case, and I try to create some awareness. and I had been mess and for a long time- and it would be nice for as family, we get some answers

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