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We will be talking a lot about dna in this case here today, but before we get into the dna evidence and especially that cigarette, but that we talk so much about at the end of yesterday's episode, we need to talk about the suspects police found in johnny social circle. Now this is the early stages of the investigation here captain this is within days and weeks after the double homicide. Now we know that police spoke many times to johnny's close friend and I want to use that term, loosely we're being told that they were close friends. But it sounds to me captain that that Johnny may have had a couple of air quotes. Close friends for a few months

The summer and fall prior to his murder and these people may not have necessarily been involved in his life prior to that right and so we want to make sure were using that term loosely, especially if Johnny's friends and loved ones are listening and they in their getting upset that were calling this individual close friend. But this is how its reported and that's what he's referred to as an we're talking about somebody that we ve mentioned briefly before anthony watson. He also goes by tony and tone watts it. Now. He is a key player here in this investigation,

and either considered to be a suspect there, a person with information to police early on in the investigation, because he will ultimately tell authorities that he was supposed to either stop by the straube house the evening of the double homicide, or if you listen to the entirety of the interview with anthony watson, he also makes reference to the possibility that Johnny might be stopping by his house. So I have not been able to sort out if this is watson, changing his story or not wanting to put him

If, as potentially being at the straw house, are going to the strong house tat night, but the reason why we know this to be part of the case is that a person who is not considered to be a suspect and should not be considered a suspect. We remember, we spoke about johnny's, very close friend, the the lifelong friend that ends up talking to tiffany and zack that night and that's how they ultimately get in touch with johnny's parents, so Johnny's lifelong best friend. and some others are people that tell the police look. We know that and then he wants and was either supposed to drop by the strong house or johnny was supposed to go to anthony's house that night, because Johnny said this to a couple people before the martyr, so this obviously will be so

the police want to talk to. Did you? Did you actually end up going to the strap house? Did johnny end up going to your house, and you can hear in the interview that, he says now that the meat up never actually took place, in fact that the short of it, the best way. To sum it up, is that johnny mentions this to a person that he's on the phone, with speaking the person that he speaking to immediately before taking the call from tiffany Williams, Anthony watson tells police that the two were planning to meet up, but when it got too late, he bailed telling Johnny that he had to get up early for school the following morning. Now I can't vouch for that part of the alibi right, but we do know that any watson was in school at that time, so that that may be just as anthony watson

says one will also- we don't law enforcement has the phone records, so they could be able to run that alibi. We hope so. Yes, we, we hope right that they have all of the phone records, and so did the two actually see each other that night that remains, the question for a lot of people and even though the dna evidence is going to lead us to two other individuals, both of them named anthony watson, there is evidence at the murder scene. The other persons were involved, so, we can really eliminate everybody else just because that dna, let us the two other individuals and the tricky thing here, though, with watson there's parts of that interview, and we looked at that dinner

quite a bit because on the surface he seems to be very much like up like a twin of samuel Williams. They, you know, they dress the same kind of act the same there. They both have criminal background history of violence, but there's something a little different about watson to me and it and it's just this- is not proof of anything. It's just a is just kind of a gut reaction than I get to his interview that there's something about him. That tells the my instinct here captain is that I believe that he's telling the truth more times and he's not telling the truth In our view, he doesn't plan offers stay in office to law enforcement. It seems like he is willing to have a conversation with them. He is willing to even ponder ideas that he might not even of its true or not

here's. Some rumours I heard I'm not really for sure, but he also seems again she seems like he is willing to cooperate and he seems like he's pretty relaxed. When you look at some of the other interrogations, those people come across as not willing to cooperate and that definitely not relaxed it. Yet it's it's strange too, because there were parts of their interview that I thought. Oh man, the way that he is, he just keeps taking a sip of that drink. Almost like he's nervous and unlike it he's doing that constantly cause he's nervous and he's nervous because he's lying, and then I thought that I thought the detective did a good job trying to back him,

a corner and asked them straight up is: are you nervous and watson, says now best and I got to get getting to think about it and watching him again. That could explain the that what I thought was nervous drinking. It may just be pissed like liking the officer. Well, that's interesting that you thought he came off his nervous cause. I I I thought he came. I mean I guess I didn't notice. I I have to go back. I guess I didn't notice how many times he has taken a drink. That was the only part you're right, though his his verbal just the verbal communication. I was trying to watch and get an opinion of him on justice, physical communication and his body language, but his verbal communication with the officer is incredibly casual.

Like it. If it appears that not only like this guy with a criminal history, the he's very comfortable with the detective and because he thinks he smarter than the ten detective or anything like that and almost feels like it like they may have. They may know each other fairly. Well, because eight they speak pretty candidly to one another, or at least it appears that way. in almost in a chummy manner at times to, but one like. He said he has a criminal history, so this is probably a situation that he's been in before, but it's a big difference to be in that situation and be guilty of something and to be into that in that situation and not be guilty of something. Yes and one thing that's interesting. He remains an interesting figure. In this whole case,

Is because where I can't decide where he follows again, we're looking for additional suspects, because we know other people, or at least the evidence is telling us other people were involved in this double homicide. Now he remains an interesting figure to me for a couple reasons: one he tells he does tell police some information like that he had heard that there were at least four people involved in the murder and he he references to males and two females and the tricky thing, though, with watson to me. What is not in question is that he was in communication with johnny right and we we that's the that is per him. He he says that job.

told other people that that night, so we he agrees with with that that he was in communication with johnny on the on the day, the johnny was killed. What we need, Learn more about watson is exactly what you said: captain with the phone records. I am hoping that they have subpoenaed all the potential people, all the proper channels and receive all of those phone records and then put em together, make put em together cross cross reference them and put together a timeline of jest the phone calls between about anywhere from four to about eight different people, and I think you could get a very clear. Picture or at least a very good understanding of the movements in maybe who was with who that night? I think the problem, though, to is again a guy with a criminal history. If he knows

some of these other individuals that might have been involved should be hard to follow him for not. Naming names because of what these guys are obviously capable of- and I dont know if here as children of his own or other family members, but that be a very tough situation and be in even if you just heard rumors feed, you don't know for certain who was there and to give that information to the police. Knowing are the police gourbi elder catch these guys before they come after me? Well, I m in the ear exactly right and we're gonna see this throughout the the remainder of this investigation and reminder it's not completely solved. This is not a solved case that we are talking about here today and partially solved right, the air ass. If we want to grow, if we want to call it that

but the thing is Anthony watson does name names to the to the police. I dont know if that they put, puts him in it or paints him in a different light for four people out there, but he does name names now. The other person that we need to talk about another central figure in this investigation is alexandra coups in EL who goes by Alex now police question this woman Alex, who would have it will be determined by police as the quote common denominator between all the persons of interest in the friend group regarding anyone's involvement with the murder of the young couple. And so while we say common denominator, this is going to be key here captain, because what is quickly understood by police, one thing that they sort out

in this case is win that dna evidence on that cigarette, but lead them to Samuel Williams and cameo pet away. Dna was found on this cigarette, but both of them they quickly. Determine that samuel Williams in an cameo pedal I did not know. Lisa Straub did not know johnny. That johnny and LISA did not know cameo or samuel Williams. So there has to be these two just ensure welp randomly in the middle of the night and kick in the door and attack these people and kill them in the way that the horrible way that they were killed. Nobody believes that the evidence suggest otherwise police said from the beginning. They believed based off of the evidence and the circumstances surrounding the case that the killers were

own too, are victims, and so we need someone to six degrees of Kevin bacon right. We need somebody that degree number one. Two and three johnny and lisa to connect us to these persons that the dna is found in their home and police say that this person could be alexandra cousine out so they say the she may be. The common denominator between all the persons of interest in the friend group and persons regarding this double homicide, so Alex is an of interest to the police very early on, for several reasons

One she had a falling out with johnny over the purchase of a dog and a car, so in october, two thousand and ten remember their killed in twenty eleven late january, Johnny and LISA agreed to by a puppy off of this alex coups now and this as the story goes, they agreed to pay her one hundred dollars for the puppy, but only paid her fifty dollars so she's upset about this and that the three of them have words over this a couple of times. But as the story goes, she eventually, they eventually make up that they let bygones be bygones right, then, sometime around thanksgiving, this may be have been just

for just after thanksgiving now, unfortunately, we only have Alex here to tell us her side of the story. She claims that Johnny was constantly trying to talk her into buying his car. Johnny has a dodge stratus and he, according to Alex, wanted to sell it to her for fifteen hundred dollars, now we do know that Johnny did not have a vehicle at the time of the homicide, so this will come explain away why he does not have a vehicle, the the flip side of this story, and we we have to kind of sort this out and figure out who we believe

Where is Johnny's friends and family say no, no, no! No! No. She talked him into selling her the car. It wasn't johnny that was constantly asking her to buy it. She talked him into it. So two very different opinions of the same situation, different accounts you so in her interview with police it with the with the same detected that interviewed watson, samuel Williams and tiffany Williams. She tells police there that Johnny relentlessly pusher to buy the vehicle, despite the fact that she wasn't really interested. But she, you know was- was friends with him and needed a car anyway, so she agreed to by the vehicle from him, and she says she paid him seven hundred and fifty dollars cash and promised that, she would pay him the other seven fifty either in payments, installments or,

or at another time now the way that goes down, is johnny doesn't sign over the title to her, so this would be possible further proof that, yes, she was supposed to pay him the additional money right However, in december sheet, so she has the car for a very short period of time and she gets into this big argument with johnny about the vehicle. And so what jot? What she saying is that all that the car was was in really bad shape. I had it short period of time. The tyre fell off she saying that the car breaks down, so she doesn't want to pay for the rest of it. Meanwhile, others are saying that johnny was angry with because she wouldn't pay and the rest of the money. What ends up happening is Johnny's parents get involved

and they are not happy about this whole car situation. They think the Alex duped him out of the vehicle, and probably was trying to get him to sign over the title. So she went have to pay and the extra seven, fifty and then she recklessly drives this thing. So it breaks down now, maybe not europe is but she's driving in a manner that you wouldn't drive an older car. So there was damaged the vehicle. That's not a question, and we know that because once Johnny's parents get involved and guess what once The law involved. Whoever's names on the title has rightful ownership to that vehicle. Regardless of what exchange answer what agreement that you had yeah, so as law enforcement. Looking at this as a possible motive- yes and here's, why so law enforcement? They they go out to Alex and they take the vehicle from her

and return it to Johnny right and so now after that takes place, no more money, exchanges hands. She answer. Seven hundred fifty dollars back johnny once the car fixed, because she she busted up the car so both of em are not happy Well, the reason why this becomes possible motive: it's not so much about the car, it's not so much about the puppy. It's not so much about the money. That's owed its the bad blood, that's brewing between the two of them, because we we know that that Alex we have set, people in this case, who said under oath that they had knowledge that Alex through Johnny's life. On more than one occasion, so she threatens, and in one of those threats is very specific say

if you don't give me my seven hundred and fifty dollars back. I'm gonna send a couple guys over to your house to kill you and LISA well. This becomes of interest, obviously to police, because Yeah have in your lisa yeah: what's this it's the johnny and lisa less than sixty days after these threats. First start I'm going to send a couple of guys over there to kill you and lisa. It looks like somebody may have sent a couple guys over to the strobes house, the night that they were killed, Right yeah because, like we said before in the previous few, episodes or a motive is not that clear: yeah, that's nice,

house, maybe there were some rumors that her her family kept money in the house or possibly a safe, but no evidence of that, and maybe the other possibility is that they either had drugs or were going to get drugs. Were I had money for drugs, and maybe that would be the possibly the the the motive and the new here and the one interrogation that we talk about on part. Three is passed with idea that. Look in this scenario: you go while this guy screwed me out of cars are were sent over these thugs too, to kill you, and as actually the motive, but they tell the guy's going over up there's money in the house. So that's how you pay. Yeah well yeah. We maybe some of these guys that were Down on their law, confronted.

Turn around their life thought that this was an opportunity for a big score to start changing things down and in we ve seen this and other cases too right. You you get these other persons involved and you say look I need you to go over to this place and do this thing for me, who knows maybe it was just they were just supposed to scare me, beat him up I'll cut and on that seven, fifty that I get back or you know I'll pay- you x amount of dollars to carry this out for me and then what what's the smart criminal going to say to the other smart criminal? Where the hell did you get that kind of money? And then then we go. I don't have that money, but your payment is in the strawberry.

Sold its inside that house. So you carry this out for me I'll help set this thing up I'll, make sure that their there and I'll make sure that you get whatever monies in that house or we split it. So what we do know is that the cigarette but collected at the house Contained a mix of two male dna profiles: when investigators entered those profiles into quotas into the quota system, they get a match too, to existing samples in that database, cameo pet away and samuel Todd Williams, samuel Todd Williams is arrested for the martyrs of lisa, Straube and johnny clark on January thirty, first, two thousand and eleven when they were killed but he's not arrested until may It's months later and ironically, he's picked up while he's out running to the store to buy a pack of cigarettes.

and he's twenty four years old at the time and he actually tells police. He thought he was being arrested. For other reasons, remember he's he's codec, lengthy criminal history, So he says, look I don't know nothin about no murders. Well, then, why do you think we job. And what do you think we rescue? It was all. I think I thought it was for some other he had a domestic violence war out against him. He also says that his assumption was that he has promoting prostitution charge and which he's involved in and he thinks it it could be one or both of those reasons that the police they basically surround, an unmarked cars and on uniformed officers and

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You captain, when you when I say something like an uniformed officers that makes a sound like they're, just running the streets, nude nathan, its plain clothes. They were wearing plain Close will give the new definition to billy club and they use the nude individuals running at you with guns be scared. A nice billy club you got there have to be too smart to be scared of that situation, so Like we had said earlier, when samuel Todd Williams sits down with police, I got a whole different perspective on. sky, then I got from somebody like anthony watson or even from tiffany, william tiffany, Seems to me doesn't seem smart enough to. I think that she's lucky and situation by either being confused being confused by her drug addiction or that she can. Just

a dumb, because she is, she gives unclear evidence and unclear statements in timeline, sue the police, and I think that that really convoluted the whole situation for police when talking to somebody like tiffany Williams, samuel Williams, who when we look to try to see if there's any relationship between the two, because the last names are the same, There is none. That's ever reported and I believe that if they were somehow we're late. if you want another, I get it it's a common name, but these are the checks and balances we try to run here in the garage that I believe this would have been reported on. Police would have would have said that another common denominator is the Stephanie Williams person now tiffany, William.

And samuel williams and cameo pet away. They all know Alexandra as well. So you you have your common denominators here are alex and tiffany Williams. That's your hop skip and a jump that takes you from victim to the two persons arrested with the dna. now when they're talking to him captain I get a different vibe on him in the fire. By get on him is this: is it do this? Probably In every day, normal life, probably pretty dumb, makes very bad decisions commits terrible crimes over all bad dude, but guess what he's probably a fairly smart criminal and a career criminal enemies. He he seems me to be the type its old school in the way that I'm never going to admit

if anything, I'm never going to rat on anybody anytime. The cops talk to me about anything at all my answers, I don't know my answer is: is it daytime I dunno? What's the date don't know, I don't know anything yet and it's it's difficult, because you don't want to call these jackasses intelligent, but it's almost maybe not even intelligence as much as it's just discipline. You asked me a question. I answer is always no. You asked me you asked me if the sky is blue. I don't know I don't even know what the sky so when he sought questioned by detectives about the murder and asked, if there's any bad blood between him in the couple, sam of course saying I dont know them. I've never been to that house, and he asserts that he stays on the side on the east side of toledo that he's he's Toledo e side. He doesn't go to the south.

Or he doesn't go to the west side and at some point sam repeatedly tells the detectives that he doesn't want to talk. He does ass for his attorney. Authorities reveal around this and that his dna has been matched to a new port cigarette newport brand cigarette, but that was found at the murder scene and that his dna was mixed with another into jewels and they know that individual to be cameo pet away and Cameo pet away is unknown friend in associate of sam Williams The two have been known to share cigarettes were multiple people that confirm this, that the two on occasion, which share a cigarette this one confirmed, the mother of Samuel Williams, child one of his sons. who verifies it? Not only had she seen the to split a cigarette in the past, but also that newport was the preferred brand of both sam.

And cameo so petty ways, also charge cameos also charge with the double homicide. The two men are scheduled to be tried separately, but with the trials held simultaneously in the same court. Now what this, the short of it, captain is sam, is arraigned via vigour Oh, please guilty to two counts of murder and two counts of aggravated burglary. His bond is set at five million dollars. At his arraignment leases family request that sam face the debt death penalty, if convicted of the murders to which the state eventually agrees. So here's the. a key part during his interview, sam struggle to remember his whereabouts on the night of the crime, but keep in mind, he's being he's, never questioned until he's arrested

why? Because they had nothing connecting victim to same william, because he was a little that dna kinda that seem to be a friend hitting which took months eight to a acquaintance. Nobody in their circle, the victim circle had this guy on the radar. So I believe, sam Williams, when he says I dont, know those people. I think he didn't know them until that night I believe him when he says I was never at their house. I think he do. after he had entered that house, but he's not spoken by police, until eight months after approximately eight months after the crimes, and so he of course, he's not gonna be able to like it he's too situations. That's all we have here for samuel

either he's going to provide attempt to provide an alibi and and lie because he was in fact at the straw, home and responsible in these crimes or two. He wasn't there and its eight months later and he's gonna have difficulty sorting out where he was and who he was with right. So he eventually he reviews. His own phone records and talks with fan. In france, in checks on his own social media, he's trying to figure out where he was that night. If he wasn't involved or. I wish some kind of fake alibi if he was involved and what he comes up with is he says, was at the bottom line, which is a bar kate at two zero, five, three star avenue in toledo. This is on the east side now, depending on which route you take. There's a few differ.

Common rules that one may take its approximately twenty four it's too twenty nine minutes away from long acre lane are pointing that out because the time line here gets real tight, real tight with some of the evidence that we have in the case. So he says he's at the bottom line, which is a bar and he's watching the pro bowl. The nfl pro bowl he mentions several other people who he says can confirm that he's there. now keep in mind he's giving this interview october twenty eightth to the detectives. He says that Larry Gill house was one of the persons. It was there at the bottom line with him that night. He also says that The floor, as was there with him as well as destiny madrid, so. police talk to Larry gill house, and he says

He was there that night- and this is what he tells the police he says look see, was at a party at my house for my daughter earlier that evening than either the murders- and he says he specifically, remember, sam being, therefore, multitude reasons, but one Sam was the only one who stayed to help him clean up now. I believe that the two are cousins and he says after we cleaned up from the part. We went over to the bar to watch the ballgame, the probable- and he says it gill house says the same thing that Samuel Williams tells them that they stayed late. They closed down the bar in typically I'm guessing. This bar would be at two o Two thirty, a m kind of deal right. I've looked it up, it's not one.

Those mom and pop operations are close at nine or ten o clock now. The other thing that the is tricky here is one key time in our time line has always been that ten, forty one p m call from tiffany Williams too, are victim johnny. Who tiffany saying that she hears that the intrusion they at home invasion is taking place at ten forty one. I I did a little record checking here on this proposal, because I was super. Suspicious of this poor pro bowl situation yeah, it seems like they're making a big deal out of this pro bowl. But it's not like everybody that likes professional football loves the pro bowl, so the pro bowl ended at approximately ten forty five pm that night, so that would be after the ten forty one tiffany called. It's always been.

Big part of this case now. The reason why our timeline gets get so tight here with this possible alibi is one thing that we cannot dismiss, because it's it's data telling. that there was a phone call made on sam's phone at ten twenty seven p m that pinged off the cell phone tower near the bottom line bar. So he would be attend. Twenty seven p m his oh, I can't say where sam was, but his phone was. twenty four to twenty nine minutes away from long acre land where the two were killed. This call to me is all kinds of strange b. As part of his alibis he's at the bottom line bar with these three other, the visuals he closes the. Our down with a couple of them and then

I he is hanging out with this destiny. Madrid girl. For the early morning, hours of the following day. a party all night together, but the phone call that puts his. Phone so many miles away from them from the crime scene. and in a time frame that doesn't leave enough time for him to get there to be there at ten forty one p m. That call is a call with destiny, read one of the people that he says he's already hanging out with, so we know already hanging out with her right. What we end up, what we end up learning is the explanation. Given is it all she was on her way? He was calling to see when she would get there

you know. Where are you I thought we were hanging out and so she's making her weight to the bar? That's so these this explanation. This alibi, ultimately are not believed by the police and I worked hard, it's hard to believe it because you have his dna at the crimes in exactly except that if there was no dna at the crime scene, then you go while the story is maybe plausible, there's some people that have said you know what he couldn't have got there that fast in that time, and that look, let's be clear here, the cell phone tower records put him near the they don't we can't. We can't use that data to put his ass on a bar all at the bottom line. Right bar. All we can say is that his cell phone was

in the area of a tower near the bottom line bar. Could he could he have already been in a ride shotgun in a vehicle driving away? from the bottom line bar that time or or away from the area of the bottom line. Yes, that would put him at long acre lane. right around the ten forty one peer time period. If, if I'm the martyr, you know I'm thinking that late at night that late at night, his Probably little to no traffic at all to leaders any I mean Columbus's a much bigger city than to leto in its it. It's damn near a ghost town at ten o clock at night. On a sunday you you can move pretty quick through our city at ten p m on a sunday night. and so could he had already been in a vehicle making its way there. I believe so because for all the people that they get onto

least here and say: look you use cellphone information to put a suspect that a crime scene But when the cell phone information tells you that they were elsewhere, you you dismiss it, and but the problem here is, we don't have to fully splain all of the cell phone information. You don't even have to get to that shit until after you fully explain the dna information the dna puts him in the strong house. If he cannot, if that cannot be explained away or proven to be incurred, act. Then we don't even have to get to the cell phone information, because guess what I can hand my cell phone off the destiny, Madrid and she can make calls and do walk around town with it and hopping hours and go to bars and have a great time with my cell phone, while I'm a cross town do an unspeakable acts inside of that whole. Yet I think the point

with law enforcement is what is the dna connected to cause? His his dna is not found on the victims is not found on other items in the house. It's found on a cigarette, but. And so he's gone. While I can explain that away because the item could have been brought to the scene, so this pro bowl alibi has bothered me big time and here's. Why captain you and I are very big fans of the nfl in fact, last night we must have traded a In text in the middle of a game and guess what we're watch it we're both watching the same game, neither of us really cool for either the we're, not big fans of either the teams playing were just very. much into the nfl. Ah, do you give do you care at all about the probable have wins? Last time have you watched a probable now? Never,

I cannot recall the last time I was recruited watch one. I just don't know, win. Last time. I watch one captain and I can't even put a date on it, but this will tell you about how long ago it was I was in guard owes pizza on broadway and the most I thought the most entertaining part of the probable was the doktor pepper. Half time extra point kicker feel go cake if the, if that that civilian kicked the ball through the uprights, that they one like a million dollars or something right, and that that description to you Now our listeners don't know what any of what that means, but wouldn't that you believe that that's probably twenty years ago that this really big nfl fan watched a pro bowl. The reason why I have problem with this pro bowl thing is that Johnny was at his friend's house watching the pro bowl. That is not in question.

What's in question is what was same williams doing that night and is his alibi of being at a bar watching the probable doesn't hold any weight and Ivan cannot believe. that there is a story out there in two thousand and eleven that two people have this young of an age both that care so much to watch the pro bowl now. Could I be wrong absolutely, but but but in his defense, it could be as at a bar and the pro bowl happened happened to be on. Right and I didn't, I think, probably didn't care that much. He brows I think you ve ever happened. I have to and was prime more important than the whole entire. Yet exactly, but people cite the specificity of his alibi. The details is able to provide just not not just what he was doing

here's my movements and here's the details and here's three other individuals to back this, all up people's people highlight that. And say that it is suggested that this alibis is true, and I agree with that thought However, as the wrench that I want to throw into that to this equation is I spoke to several people that know Johnny the new johnny very well, and I said he told you he was at a friend's house watching the pro bowl. Yes, he even told me that the two friends he was watching it with. I said we know that tiffany Williams was in constant contact based off of the phone records with johnny at night. Are you of the opinion that, if asked what he was doing, that johnny would offer up that information to tiffany Williams? What he offer up that informed

into anthony watson who. We, though, he was in contact with that night, and everybody said yes, he was Johnny was pretty much an open book hey. What are you doing, I'm at so and so's house we're watching the pro bowl after this I'm going to go pick lisa they we're gonna head back to her place. The reason why I'm I'm highlighting that gap and is because I think that if Tiffany Williams wasn't at that home, when they were killed, Or in the home that night this she had knowledge of what was going on what took place inside of their home, and we know based off of her statement to the family this before anybody even arrives on the scene, the she saw that the place of been rent ransacked, which could not physically have happened unless she was in the home or had knowledge from some

who was in the home at that that night? Yes, it just a just to make that perfectly clear, forever be listening. Tiffany Williams tells the parents before the cops or any based, shows up at the crime scene that the house's ran sacked when the please get there and Please go their multiple times; they have. They find no evidence to give them probable caused to enter that property, there would have been able to see through a window that the house was possibly ransacked there would it had probably cause and they would have been, had been able to enter that property and that never happen correct and because they never entered hold they they couldn't because nobody could see inside the house Then she has they have knowledge she's. That had that that nobody else was at that at that scene. At that time. So she's pray that knowledge prior to. Owing to the scene with the cops and are in the parents. Now

the reason why I am bringing that all love is because I believe that there were a couple people one, if not maybe two people there Keeping tabs on johnny that day and that night, whoever wanted to carry this. They wanted to carry it out in the strong home and they wanted johnny to be there. And so, if Johnny so willingly, offered up this information on over it so and sows house watching the probable I won't home until I pick up lisa when she gets off work at ten. If we have more people telling us that he would willingly give up that information to others there no reason to not believe that he may have told tiffany Williams at that. He may have told Zack that who is in contact with an end or that he may have told anthony watson that and the reason why I am saying that captain is because guess what? If I'm the

third party, if I'm the muscle, if sam Williams cameo pet away and Waiting on the call waiting call for you to tell me it's go time. We gotta get too long acre lane. It's not that far stretched to believe that there was another phone call. Her communication, where someone says he's not at all he's at his watch and the purple and If, on the muscle, waiting on that and now eight months later, I need an alibi. What's one thing that I note that took place at night, the probable, because I remember being told we gonna- we're gonna- have the way he's busy watching the probable and I I think that didn somewhere in this may be this by the genesis of this alibi sorted within, permission that same williams had before long,

and johnny were killed. Now we're gonna get into some phone call information here, and this is the time in the show, look where we're not a kid friendly show its ii for explicit, not ie, for every one raided on this show. and so, if you got young ones in the vehicle or you don't want to hear words yourself, it's time to earmark up like they say, an old school earmuff mother, but first of all about his earmuffs here here. Something that's gonna make Alex not look so good. Ok, so she's in squabble with somebody else summit. not related to this case at all. But this person gives this information to the police, and this is not gonna look good for her. She's in a squabble with somebody else, and this is about a week after a gallus erika I hears. I found the information at my notes here.

so we're talking about alexandra coups, her possible involvement and, in fact, when police Talking to anthony watson, Anthony watson tells the police that he believes Johnny bought perker sets off a someone named peanut, and he knows who peanut is peanuts a nickname, but he gives peanuts real name to the police. Any says: look. I believe that from what I've heard, Johnny owed pina some money, maybe even a bunch of money, but the police are like well do you think that peanut would would be involved, would get take retaliation or go to collect his money and watson says no. I dont think that peanut would retaliate, even if there was money that was owed because he

new of several other individuals. It were still alive and well, they owed money to peanuts. My and this is this is months after this is about two months after the the homicides. Now, what what will? What anthony watson does supply police with? Is that he says Then he heard that alexander coups no was involved a piece exe. moreover, in some way, be as another nickname he tells police it he believes that there are at least four people involved, and then what we end up finding out is that this alexander coup I know the woman who's, the common denominator determined to be, common denominator by police lesson, twenty. hours after the bodies were discovered. We fall now that she sent a text message to someone that she

in a squabble. With this says I do this shit Pham watch the news. Bitch mother, fuckers, get duct tape and tied up and left her dead That's her text message to somebody else that she's in a fight with in it it has beef with in twenty four hours after the bodies were discovered, her bragging that she killed them. This is a confession. Yes and then he wants and tells authorities of a conversation that he had weeks before he's picked up in question with a woman who was not identified in any reporting source that I could find. He says the woman in this conversation placed herself at the scene of the crime He also alleges that SAM Williams, anna other man named row and a second woman were present at the murder, the four broken into the straw resident seeking a safe that was rumored to be in the home, and

One thing we need to be clear about him: potentially implicating multiple people in this crime watson does tell police admits to fearing for his own safety and that of his family's. Now. The their phone calls captain sam Williams once he's in jail awaiting trial, you know they record those calls well. Sam makes a phone call ants and tells a relative, I fucked up- I'm gonna, be in here for a long time now he go to trial. Samuel the trial and at his trial. This is presented by the prosecution as an emission of guilt and he says no, that simply taken out of context there also another possible incriminating phone call that has made this is an april twenty twelve. This is when SAM Williams, still

awaiting trial? Call stephen pet away Stephen pet away? Is the bridge there of the alleged accomplice, cameo pet away, whose also arrested for the double mirth and on this call sam says to Stephen quote, That was supposed to be me and you, but you know little bro had to step up to take your spot man. You know he didn't do it right, like I would have done it. I'm sorry stephen responds to sam saying you know he didn't do it right like I would have done it to which so, replies no, but he did it good enough to make something happened or they also like pieces This sounds like it was supposed to be Stephen cameos, older brother, with super tight, though everything I could find. Captain suggested sam and stephen word like best, and the cameo is stevens little brother and that he was the salmon cameo were tight as well. and a lot of times of three of whom would would run together, but I think that state

and may have been locked up for something at this time, and so, if somebody look into higher muscle, so I'm in cameo got the job, not salmon, stephen and so can the prosecution at trial saying this is further indication that he's implicating himself in these crimes? cameo was well, but SAM says look. This was too as was taken out of context as well that this was this was in reference to their the three of them were kind of run in this prostitution ring together and we know that, because all three of them had been arrested at different times for promoting prostitution and I know that a lot of people don't like to hear that word. But that's that's the term. That's the worst in turn that used in the charges. So that's what yeah that's the laboratory where using yes, so he said is it that is he's referencing like cameo was,

when a good job. Helping us run this ring, but he wasn't making enough, but he wasn't making enough money Then make more money, he was doing good, but he could have done it better. I mean we can't. We can't sit here and claim to know one hundred percent that not truth, but it also seems pretty logical that he may have been refer. to the murders as well. In these conversations so even though that we believe that there's four, maybe more people involved, maybe even a lookout person, may be a contact person for all the different individuals law enforcement is able to charge and brain to individuals to trial they're not going to be tried together, but they're going to be tried at the scene time and in the same court room- and the weird thing here is they're using that same evidence against both of these individuals, the cigarette, but sandwich

dna found on it came ways: dna found on that same cigarette, but that was found at the crime scene. Now. police were trying to move on other suspects as well, especially alex her alexandra, but I think that they believe once they had this evidence that put salmon cameo at the crime scene that that those two would start talking, unfortunately, not of them confessed to anything and did not implicate anybody else and the crimes either and then to further complicate issue cameo pet away. His case gets tossed so judge says that the only evidence they haven't cameo. Is that cigarette, but nothing else, nobody saying that they even that he was there he's not implicated, self in any former fashion. Where was sandwich,

they have other evidence against him. So the judge tosses petty ways case for lack of evidence, dont get onto the judge about this, because is if, if you take cameo pet away to trial, he's found innocent, you can't try again the judges in And cameo pet away didn't do this. The judges saying you need to have a stronger case against this individual to have it in my court room. but the judge determines that. There's enough evidence against sam Williams and part of this evidence is those phone calls. Part of the evidence is individual, saying that they had heard the same williams was:

volume and then part of the evidence also will be what the captain hates the most a jailhouse snitch. So this individual, his last name, is young links, those Eric Yang laying he will testify in court that not only did Williams, confess the to the crimes to him that that Williams also provided a lot of detail about the murders right and that. He had information given to him by. SAM Williams, then what only been known to the killers or law enforcement and part of that information was something at the crime scene. Remember we talked about the expensive joe, we in the home was not taken by the perpetrators,

and also all of that iraqi currency. Then I believe there is like forty five hundred dollars in several different overlooks. That was all I iraqi currency. and that SAM Williams had told Yang lang something to the effect of you know Yang language when, when and Williams is telling him about the crimes. According to EU, you know he wants to know what did you ever find the safe or how much money did you find in the house and willie tells him. Well, though, a large amount of money that we found in the home of saddam hussein, money that we couldn't do anything with, so we left it and at the time, at the trial, Oh, it was believed that that was information that would have only been known to the straps, to police and to the killers, and they this information against sam Williams, along with the other information that we have already gone through now. I do want to be clear here that it was late. It's

there has been later the accuracy of that information only being privy to the killer and law enforcement has been called into question for good reason, because I believe was cnn. I know that it was reported. I believe it was cnn that reported that the iraqi currency foreign currency was found in the hall, so somebody watching that news, clamp or following the case, may have known about that information and could have fed it to the jail house, Nicky england, so again to people charged basically base of the same evidence, but in one of the cases are not gonna meet the other use the evidence so What is the outcome of these two trials? Why, after hearing from twenty seven witnesses and reviewing more than one hundred and thirty exhibits a ford,

The trial we have a jury of twelve who find sam Williams guilty of two counts of murder, two counts of kidnapping and a single count of aggravated burglary, and he ultimately will get sentenced to two life sentences. Without the possibility of we're all so eventually the death penalty goes away, in this case, We do know that the families, or at least the clark family, were big advocates for the death penalty. In this situation, which is which is understood,

the bonn this situation now, where the case it's today, captain is samuel, Williams is still in prison and the evidence and some of what some of the people were telling police it is suggested that there were four persons in the home that night, if not more, and who were these other three and even if you include cameo pet away whose dna was found at the scene, you still have to people that are not known, not identified, never been charged, so that the outstanding theories on the case are the intruders broke into the strap home on on the night of january thirty, two thousand eleven looking for the safe looking or any money or even possible drugs. At my, have been in the home and that they were.

so there was. Unfortunately, there was considerable damage to both. LISA and johnny. That is not from killing them. So one could believe that may be they are being tortured or their being hit there being assaulted to provide information where's the safe wears a safe where's, the money where's the money. So the way that the theories work is that either? They were intentionally killed or that the bags were used to some form of toys. sure to try to get information from them or torture to send a message to them in retaliation for something else, and that one mac, actually, one of them accidentally died and then they had to kill the other one day

Why we talked about early in this case that the the coroner could not sort out who died first, and there were. There was it concerned with that inside of this case in the investigation, other theory, is that, based off of the interviews with johnny's friend tony Anthony watson, tony or tone watson that he was telling the truth Anthony watson, told police that a woman in circle name alexandra coups. Now that with who had a history of having altercations, with johnny before the murders. That

She was involved and she got others involved and were responsible for the murders, some things it occurred to me in this case captain that we talked about offline the other day. You know why would tiffany make those calls? Why would she yet other people involved after the fact is said everybody up, if she was making arrangements- and I said one- it would be to explain away why she made the ten forty one call it all right. But there's a couple of the reasons why she may have made these calls. Could she have provided transportation? Could she have been addressed or to and from an that's how she got. The knowledge of the house being ransacked before she should have had that for anybody else, have that knowledge, or did she offer up a vehicle that could be used in? She wasn't the drive we do know that prior according to her

One story before going overdid Straube home that night, that she stopped by another individuals house and was there for about an hour, and then she took a borrowed vehicle with her. It was not zags vehicle was not her vehicle. Did she simply go over there and out for an hour or so, and let somebody some other peoples that were at that location use. Her vehicle are used that vehicle that wouldn't have ties to the individuals occupied the vehicle, my because again it didn't belong to tiffany or zack. Then here's the other thing for the call. The late night call the ends up guy in communication with johnny clarks parents. I've wondered one of the persons they try to call while one the people they did speak to remember. Zack called johnny's lifelong friend ruben

Reuben is the only reason why this thing gets back to the clarks at all and the clark showing up that Calling the police causes all kinds of problems for tiffany and Zack, if they're trying to hide something and all the people were so principle. In this case, been wondering if really concerned they would figure out how to call the clerks. They were calling the clerks they weren't in reuben, how do we get in touch with the clerks? Now they are looking to reuben. They were true, we get reuben to ride over to the strong house with them a p of johnny and leases I'm starting to wonder where they trying to get this dude back to this crime scene and set him is the muscle still sitting there do we have

SAM williamson, cameo pet away, splitting cigarette in the in the close garage over the straw home, while they're waiting for tiffany exacted try to bring this innocent back to the home a man he ran Bobby. He also has were yeah. No, I think they may have one off him and try to make it look like he was responsible for the murders right, member, we got the missing knives from the home. What if they would have you know sorry, but what? If we would have made some postmortem? stab wounds in and then put some knives on this reuben kid it it's it's weird that they anybody else involved in it, and I applaud you for pointing that out early on in this case gap and because it doesn't make sense that if tiffany was in zack were involved or knew what happened, that they would alert anybody unless they're conscious got through them in a than the short course of two hours.

but I dont think that it did. I think that these calls in alerting other people was to either make something else happened set up. This set somebody else. And find somebody else to explain away their prior actions that they know they cannot hide the data. The phone records will always be there, so you need to explain them away now. Regarding tiffany Williams in december of two thousand and fourteen somebody shot, fires at or somebody fired shots at tiffany Williams, Now she wasn't hit, but what we hand up learning. Is it john, a mighty clark? Johnny's pay They are arrested a short period of time after these shots were fired at tiffany Williams and their chart their charge with attempted assault on her well, and there is no doubt that they did that John Clark fired those shots. Tiffany Williams,

They have been an open book about this day, said: look, she was involved in the killing of our sun and least straube. We lost our damn mines. She was never charged with anything and we we went out looking for one night and fired some shots at her, so they ve they think they ve been clean and clear about this. Now they they both wanted to prison for it there, I out now, but they did. This is not something that they hide from. This is not something that they deny. In fact, this is something that they are shouting from. The mountain tops there were other p involved in the murder of these two young individuals enable nobody else has been charged. Nobody else, husbands sentence, nobody else is in prison, but this one do there is a way of put in fear into other individuals, and maybe they thought well. She is not there

right and maybe she's the weakest link, and if we can scare her enough, maybe she starts town the cops names and in breaking down exactly how this all went down, and why We're in another update, remember, Anthony watson, tony your tone, watson, who told police that he had a conversation with an unidentified woman who placed herself at the crime scene, who also implicated sam willie was an alleged the two others? A man and another woman were also involved and guess what the deal at the scene is telling us that that this information could be correct, that there was a Female perpetrator involved at least one female perpetrator, if not to and we know that there were at least two different male dna is found. because we know they charge but then dropped the charge against cameo. So why

information to police- could be correct and. we had mentioned that this information is cooperation with police. He is, he told them that he will. He was afraid for his life and for that of his family's after providing this information, they do hope him up his his felony count that he was facing on a on a completely unrelated kay, was reduced to a misdemeanor. Any only ended up receiving probation for that when he played guilty to that charge, Also dont know if if the prosecutor or law enforcement had intended to drop it to a misdemeanor all all along- and this was just icing on the cake you get- is cooperation for something you are already going to do anyway, but that information, his cooperation, may have come at a high price. He was killed. He was fate shot outside of his apartment in september, two thousand and eighteen.

So an unknown, assailant or assailants gun him down near his apartment in toledo, ohio he shot he shot in the leg he halls, nine one one to report that he's been shot. And while we still lying there waiting on emergency services to show up, he calls his mother and He later dies at the hospital and he's he's dying on the phone call to his mom. He was only thirty years old at the time of his death and as far as I could find, captain there's officially there's been no suspects identified in his murder remains answer. evolved, cameo, pat away who's, who got lucky and the judge tossed his case in this double homicide. He gets picked up in twenty twelve for beating up a girlfriend he's convicted of that charge. You get six years in prison for

That he gets out and he's not AL for long, because in twenty twenty he's, a key used in a shooting, a gun, assault the takes place. Now I looked for an update on his case, and as far as I could find, the information that most up to date is twenty twenty three february and I could not figure out if he had been convicted of that charge or if he was still awaiting trial now and the end alexandra coups uno did submit dna refused to take a polygram but did agree to give her dna to the detectives. We know that there had been unknown male and female dna found on johnny, sweat inside of johnny, sweat, pants pockets. We talked about the the removing of the wallet

But what we do know is that when this dna comes back and it doesn't match alexander coups knows, police decide to not charge her with any cry. It looks to me, as if she remains a suspect, strong suspect in this case now. How do we solve this case? I think this case is very solvable and it helps that you have one of the persons responsible already in prison, but I don't know if this dude Williams is ever gonna talk if he's going to spend the rest of his life in prison. He doesn't want to be labeled a snitch. So how do you solve this case? I think it's there's three easy, answers here, one or all three could lead you to the the answers your seeking one is. We ve set a couple times in this case subpoena all the phone records right at the vote least- uni johnny's, sam Williams, tiffany Williams, anthony watson and alexander coups now, and probably fat Xanax as well

straps if you had all those phone records and you put them together, cut and paste those babies and put him into sequential order might have a much more clear understanding of that night. The other per the item that I would work heavily on. If I'm an investigator is identifying this individual that is referred to as drought. We don't know this person's real name, but he comes up multiple times from multiple different sources. When people are talking to police drove even Anthony watson said that drove may have been one of the people responsible, Juno was real name. No, now look I'm just some dude sitting in a garage. But here's where I go with this. draw we know is slang for good marijuana report No, this by my limited knowledge of rap music right drowse used by people like Eminem fifty cent Conny west and the late in great need haug, and many many more so could dro be reference.

Somebody that has really good we'd, that selling really good stuff in two thousand and eleven two thousand and ten. The other thing to that, I would push on is drew worn. We know, per the court records and per conversations with detectives the chimney williams hung out with an individual name, drew warn that night when we're talking about nick drove. Doesn't sound like too far of a stretch from drew to me now and the final thing here captain is obvious: the obvious identify the other dna evidence found at the scene per reports. I dont know the exact number It's been reported heavily that about a dozen to possibly even his highest. Two dozen people have submitted their dna dna when asked by police

and we know that the persons it submitted dna- they don't match the dna of the perpetrators that was found at the crime scene. We also know that that when they checked code is the only two names it came back was pet away and Williams, and they charge both of them one of homes in prison. Its identifying these other sources a dna now we know that Dna didn't come from alexander coups now. Do we let her off the hook, not so fast? My friend. I think that she could still be on the hook for this in and not have left her dna at the scene where she did, they didn't find it at the scene. If she's involved, you're gonna need other persons to turn on her ample haven't moved off of her fully yet

she's got onto commit some pretty terrible crimes or be accused of committing some other possible crimes. One also in this case you get to meet people involved, yet people starting to talk just because I feel like their say for that law enforcement can't get to them and the street will get to you and we ve seen that already happened and take place in this case. Well, and I want to throw out a challenge to the Lucas county sheriffs department, who were the lead on This case, I do think they did a lot of good work in this case, especially when came to rounding up some individuals and questioning them. We know that they did good work by calling NBC eye to secure the scene and come up with physical evidence were forensics in this case. The the mainly led to an arrest in a conviction, but here's the thing Lucas county.

when SAM William sits there and he- and there's all those questions he talks to you that whole damn time. He believes. I'm sorry better than these gaps and youth that, when you told him, we found your dna at the scene, he would crack and he sing like a bird and he did. sat there and he still denied knowing anybody denied ever being there and so sit here all these years later and he does look like the smart one, because here's where the key stands, the police know based off of the physical evidence that other individuals were there, that night and responsible for what happened to these two young people. They are not locked up. None of those other people are locked up, so williams

was smarter that day and your letting until you lock up those other individuals, your letting him when he's beat you, zander coups know who, who you interviewed multiple times and she sits there acting she smarter than the detectives if she will- involved? She outsmarted you. And I'm challenging the Lucas county sheriff's office to solve this case. One hundred percent, because what they have said publicly there talking at both sides in their mouths- and I don't like it in two thousand and twenty one mike navarre, the his county sheriff, says to the families publicly says: families of lisa and johnny that he in his office are committed to getting justice for their loved ones. To solving this case in bringing all that are responsible and holding them responsible,

not happen we're over two years later. After that statement, that's not happen. The other statement that come out, though, captain well Do the genealogy research on You know that you collected at the scene of the of the perpetrators of the suspects and who is county, sheriff's office has said we don't have the funds for that. We can afford to do that. So you're gonna. Let the bad guys when oversight- thing is silly as money. You know you you point out to the public plenty a times these poor kids were killed for forty five There's are or less than two hundred dollars or whatever it was you reference money. You references, being a safe in the house And maybe money was the motive and now

as of now we're referencing money as an excuse that this thing has not been solved completely was not just this for the family or the justice for the victims, but it's also. These are these individuals that were involved in this crime or animals, and they need to be pulled off the streets, not in this society, because if they're, if they're in society, there there's a chance that this would happen again to other victims over basically nothing and you can't afford the funding, but there's organizations that will help you get the funding. This kind of this kind of work captain would take approximately six to eight grand

a profile. So if there were three other individuals involved, we're talking at most even conservatively, let's on the higher and about twenty five thousand dollars to completely solve this thing, and inheres That's not a whole lot of money, and I get it. Different counties have different funding for different investigations and different resources. So I'm not faulting them for not having the resources on faulting them for what you just said, not accepting the help. Of others that can help you clear that hurdle of not having the funding and where these others individuals cecy more world renowned netteke genealogist, who publicly offered up her services to lucas county to help them solve. This

story of the unknown dna profiles that were found to this day. Lucas counties not taken her up on that offer. We know that she solve some of the some very big high profile cases in this country, she's, offering to help you with her services and that's not been taken, so you don't need funds for cecy more road day and then on top of it captain points out. Yes, there are groups. Ok, so we have to lead. O cares. Is advocacy group, its any group that works with law enforcement to a system, bringing justice to murder, victims and their families, their approach, police organization in that leader community for the past seven decades that this isn't to something that was born ten minutes ago. Seven decades dave, they ve been a part of the toledo commune. Toledo cares has agreed to use their. Can

innumerable local and national connections to help offer additional resources. In this case, in this investigation- and I can tell you this true crime garage- we have offered our assistance in several other cases? Yes, does a lot of that come through the porch lay project, of course, but that's several up at least three ohio cases positively identified dna through the porch light brown well. We know we have asked them couple these cases in a couple of these cases. True crime garage damn near funded the whole entirety of the case. And with only working, we currently working with law enforcement in an out of state case.

So now you have cecy more toledo, cares true crime garage. I know that you have w tee o EL the news station up there that have have continued to broadcast. Story even all these years later, who have attempted to rally the troops and and get the community involved does not have to be Lucas county sheriff's office going this alone this that this week rally, the troops. It's a whole community that wants to help Lucas county sheriff's office solve this thing and guess what? At the end of the day, we help you lucas county. We hope you sheriff's office and you get to stand up at the podium get to take all of the praise for solving this case once you finally do it yeah and when the curtain and when the crispy colonel assain, true crime, garage

it's not just the colonel and the captain. It's all the amazing listeners that have donated to the portrait project and if we, if they came to us and said, was going to be this much money. We do a call to action and we know that we have the the support of the listeners that would raise that money and that justice would be served not just for the victims and the families, but for that community and for the whole state of ohio, The beer fund has put many a cold beer in the old garage fridge, but it's also sent a lot of dollars to the national center for missing and exploited children. It's provided a nine dog, a canine officer for a jurisdiction, the sheriffs department down in the great state of florida, its identified several victims and suspects and perpetrators of crimes,

through the porch light project, and, as I said, we are now working with law enforcement on an out of state case as well. So every dollar also in we're making sure that it counts- and it doesn't just go to the the garage fridge, all the time, look any with information. In this case please come forward. There is still some puzzle pieces that need to be sorted out. In this case, I believe it's very Solvable with point out the reasons why it solvable and how it can be solved, so if you have informed and this is one thing we need to talk about here just briefly before we let everybody go your captain. Is it when you'd have a homicide. Investigation time is a detectives enemy in the early stay, because of the investigation? Time was certainly the enemy for detectives in this case as well. Had they had that dna evidence days or

weeks after the murders, rather than eight months later, they may have had a different line of questioning when they were talking to all these individuals as the enemy for case when its fresh when its new cold cases, time is a detectives friend, and that is because people each lifestyles change living situations. Change people may not be a free. if somebody today that they were afraid of in two thousand eleven, two thousand and twelve, by an thing that has changed significantly in this case, a very violent, dangerous individual, samuel Williams is locked up for good. They threw away the damn key. He ain't get now so if he was stopped at the oars, presence or the fear of sam Williams was stopping. You are preventing you from talking before you don't have to about him? No more, you can go to the police

you can tell them look. This is widened, come forward because I was afraid from life nobody's gonna, blame you for that now If anybody out there has information, please come forward. Please tell us what you know. Please call crime stoppers, for one mine to five five eleven Levin or you can call the detectives bureau at four one, nine to one three, four, nine one, seven or if you don't want to talk to law enforcement, you can read the true grand garage or contact information is on our website. You can also reach out to occur that was very valuable in helping us put together this case. His name is brine duggar. He somebody that programme garage worked with on the nancy eagles in case he's a brilliant investigative rapporteur for w tee, o l and you can reach by. I a b duggar. Do? U? G are active

U t, o l dot com, the one and thank you so much for joining us here in the garage each and every week, and thanks for sharing our show on social media. Do we have recommended reading for the beautiful listeners this week, Then we are recommending. It came from ohio by james runner, little halloween action for if you were good for halloween, so tat on the night light, lock your door in those the window blinds join! Investing! the rapporteur, james runner, as he looks into thirteen tales of mysterious creepy and unexplained events. All from the book, I state, including the giant lovelorn frog blood, thirsty, melon heads of kirtland and the werewolf of defiance dont forget about the moth

And of the ohio river and the UFO that inspired close encounters of the third kind and many more check out, it came from I you'll find that great title and many more on our recommended page at true crime, garage dot com and until next week be good because and don't with the.