In new orleans, twenty twelve bruce catch. Here I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist ass. He stood in the park. What were the address should have been. He was shot and killed. I'm you d umbra join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die, the motive behind bruces murder a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now. Binge all fourteen episodes of or clock season, five, wherever you listen to pod, this spring transform your outdoors base into a regular gathering place for you and your loved ones with help from actually whether you're into wicker, teak or driftwood inspired furniture? We ve got the look you're going for adam accessories, like string lights and beverage tab to take your patio party from basic to curated and enjoy cosy evening vibes with a new fire bit visit, ashley dot com or start by your local store and find affordable pricing and expert support today shopping.

They today only it actually, The. I welcome the true gram garage wherever you are, whatever you are doing things for listening, I'm your hosts, nick and with me, as always, is a man that needs no introduction. Yet we do every show. Anyway, he is the info captain

so little redundant, gotta be seen, and it's good to see you thanks for listen thanks for town. And we are drinking solar dog, ibm by the brilliant minds over the story: a brewing company, a beautiful astoria organ garage. Three and a half bottle caps out of five. This is a wonderful idea with a blend of citrus notes in a smooth, multi, finnish and solar dog was brought to us by our favorite garage goers. First up, we have christened ohio, who says hello from cedar point and check out. rid beer out of ghana, ohio, of course, we ve checked out just one of many fine, mid ohio beers, like your tea and a big walter, heather and virginia beach. Next, up top, we morgan in saskatoon, canada, who hope europe saskatoon. Next up. We have Benita spud and wallace.

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twenty seven year old singer for the band that gets was murdered on July, seventh, nineteen. Ninety three, I own two, a m. She had left the capital area capitol hill What area of seattle she was visiting with a friend she told her friend that she was going to catch a cab and head home for the night. Now we have about an eighty minute time period, where we cannot account for her whereabouts. She was found just before or three thirty, a m. She had been murdered, brutally murdered and the police had few leads in this case and even less evidence to go on. So unfortunately, this this case the investigation was not very optimum. Dick from the get go, and it was apparent to everybody involved in this investigation, her inner circle and the mute.

community of seattle. Did this thing was not going to be solved any time soon or without the help of somebody pushing this investigation along well, who comes to the rescue captain? Well, it's her friends and it's her close friends. The her ban, mates the people that she's known since anti eighty six who started the ban, the gets with her in ohio before moving out to seattle, to try to jump into that girl, seen and become a part of something bigger, and I dont know if this was spear headed by steam, Moriarty, the drummer for the ban to this hidden I pray said his name wrong and I apologise but seems like a spear headed

I am you see him a lot. There was a documentary made about the gets there actually were also featured in a little bit in a thing called hype. It was a documentary about the grunge scene and I think they they featured the gets a little bit. But Steve ah seems like a you know, just a stand up. Dude right can I interject real quick and not only a stand up dude, but like a guy that you want to have as your friend right he comes off to me as the type do that, if your buddies with him he's gonna do whatever you can for you. Yes, so they have this horrible crime, there's not much and look a lot of these cases. Law enforcement is just sometimes as bumbling idiots. You know similar to the captain, but in this case I think they're doing their work and But by again can't blame the ban for not believe, and I am so. What does the ban? Do they go? Hey, look less real. your around this? Let's get the scene rallying around this investigation, and how can we do this? We need

private investigator, so what they're gonna do is set up benefit shows where thou play. they'll. Have other bands play, I believe nirvana actually played. One of these benefit shows, I know. Pearl jam played. One of the benefit shows so the whole community rallies around. So they can raise money to put forth to give a private investigative team opportunity help solve this case and not enough captain. Do you hear the phrase music community bright? You here you know music, so or whatever, but music community. It is a community and that's what music is all about its about banning where's coming together to create great music and bringing people and to listen and witness that great music, the you ve created now obviously Stephen his fellow ban members, the gets they don't know how to solve cry. We are investing crimes and one of their best friend was brutally murdered, but what you do know how to do. Is they to bring people together they need in, and they did just now

You do what you know when you are faced with adversity and they rob people together for one cause, one cause too raise money to one solve their friends crime, to bring just to her in her family in themselves. As well as, let's take this this or a horrible hurt. Him did this ok and this person still walking amongst us and if he did this week, he very well could have done it again. Let's get him behind bars where he belongs. That's when she can make yet- and I haven't my notes here- captain I don't you setup couple bans are, you said no, on a pearl Jim. I have sound garden as well in my notes, but basically the gets brought these bans together to help raise a bunch of he too higher that private investigator that you spoke of they raise about seventy thousand dollars to hire private investigator and eight only hired one, but they went out and interviewed a bunch of people, so they could find the best one for their case,

they hired lee heron and she is a private investigator and with this the thousand dollars they were able to hire her for a three. your time period, to work on this case, that's an extensive amount of time well, the thing here is: she starts getting involved in this thing and she starts running in the circles that the band would have run because her suspicions were that, maybe somebody, the person that did this might have known mia. So she working with our friends and she's, going to a lot of bars, she's interviewing ban members of other bands, and she gets a lead. Ok in this, through one of me as friends, and it's a roommate of hers actually tells the private investigator did there's this person that was friends with me and friends with the roommate, and it sounds like

might have been some kind of relationship going on between the room in this quota quote friend, but their during some heated arguments, This friend tells the roommate saying things like you know that the bitch is dead the beaches dead. Why did I do it? I don't know did it just says: weird strange things when it comes to your mind immediately jumps to your murdered friend when somebody saying that the private investigators, tracks down this person and is able to collect the lot of samples she searched took the vehicle searched his call or she would eventually turn him into law enforcement. Believe that she had a good suspect now, law enforcement they use the polygraph test to talk with this individual now and we we touch on it a little bit. But when you have this statute,

and with very little evidence the polygraph tat might be your number one weapon when you're talking to the suspects, because you have to figure out who had the means to kill her during that eighty minute time period? Where were they were they involved? Are they lying about where they are right? Now, this into jewel, even though he saying these strange things, he passes the polygraph ups Unfortunately, this lead doesn't seem to pan out while any sort. White his hand. These strange things you know, but this comes from the captain who says so wish. I put it to put that on the tea for every week. I leave the garage. Why does he say these strange thing with what I say every week by myself now the private investigator she's going to get another lead in this led his sleep generated through a fan of the gets. This fan started some type of internet relationship,

the guy that lived in seattle area. Now this guy he's start saying strange things while we're on the topic grey, he starts talking now how he is going to do to this girl what he did to me. so our private investigator starts following this. A around, and what she observes is that this guy has some strange okay. This is what you know. Every episode we get into some dude. That's got a strange hobby. This is astronomy. Yes, that's podcasting, not that strange. Now this is This is horrible and it makes your mind wandering okay, so, while she's following this guy, this is something she figures out that he has did he does on several occasions. He parks at schools, any watches girls soccer teams from his car? He stays in his vehicle, the whole time and then after the

soccer game or other called a match, I guess or the practice whatever he's watching afterwards he would drive to a porn shop. Okay, so this is dead. only strange behaviour, the private ass. She collects a whole bunch of information on this guy She ends up figuring out. There was a ruin version. Sorry, so he watches girls play soccer, yes, and then he drives a porn shop. Yes, that's it, hob. Well, I'm guessing its is hobby because the private investigator lee here and she said that she observed him. Do this on more than one occasion does not like it just happened on accident once brain ok so and she's prior only following him for a limited amount of time. Who knows how often he spends afternoons this way, regardless the price investigator. She collects info on this guy and through this,

formation and after studying this guy for a while, she learns the he did, know mia at some point. It questionable, I'm a little unclear as to what their relationship was if they were just acquaintances or if it was more than that, but she definitely points out that they had known one another. Why, in this case, is very difficult to because you know, even if you're introvert and even if you kind of keep to yourself, it's like you know of a lot of people when you're in a band and a lot of people know of you and so there'd be a lot of people that I've played gigs with you know our band open for theirs or there's open for our for my band or whatever, and that that I probably hung out with you know ten fifteen times other than those circles of people. I've never hung out with a member you might not, even though their last name or where they live, they're, just acquaintances so, but get this

there's a little bit of icing on this bad cake. Here right, I don't think that's icing he's he's a cab driver. Oh and she mia remember said that she would probably get a cab and had home for the night the last time that she was seen now, what Confronted by the private investigator, he says that he's not and he was not in the area the night that me it was killed that he was off. He was out of town. He was staying with a friend in a limp. You ok, ok! Well, this is a very good private astrogator you don't just straight up, lie to a private investigator of this level because she figured out very quickly. You are not so with your friend in olympia that night, so he's unable to account for his whereabouts. For the night, the meal was killed, ok, so so he does basically-

came up with a false alibi and than the alibi didn't check out right. He he does eventually break down too to the private investigator? He admits that he was driving his cab in seattle area that night brain he is leads to her that he has a severe drug problem and its one. It's it's hard for him to account for his whereabouts a lot of the time. But he says you know I had nothing to do with her death, one possibly reason why he was lying in the first place. Is that he's pie heard rumours that she is catching a cab yeah, right- and so then he knows who's driving a cab in that area. That night, in all their there's a pie, without feels form, I mean he is a creep, oh, that watch his girl soccer and then goes porn shops but yeah. I guess

I feel form in the sense that he has a serious drug problem that he can't seem to get a hold of. I don't feel form because his his movements seem very trains to me and seem like maybe something he might want to talk to a professional about things. That's some some things to work out up even pass. The drug problem he's had tried, talk, space, dotcom there you go, but so this this is a very good suspect. This is very good sense in this case yeah. I think so, but again like I was saying, like you, you've heard the story. So it's and you are a cab driver. So we have that speculation that she got into a cab, but on the other side of things, if you are innocent that man, you You know the story, like I said, and so you're gonna go. How other recon assume it's me if I tom laws in the area- and I was working that night, they're gonna assume it's me well and he's got a couple of other problems here too, because with that's it

drug problem. Who knows if he yelled life, we said he's unable to account for his whereabouts, maybe he's even unable to account for what he does when his eyes are open he maybe blacks out the other thing too. Probably running in certain circles, in doing certain activities, meaning per missing and using drugs. Where he's often breaking the law. While I think that's one of the reasons, too, that the ban did such a good job as as raising money and raising awareness and keeping this on the forefront, they were afraid that law enforcement, looked at new media, as does she now here's some grunge. girl, you know that pass. We was a drug addict as well. I mean there's no signs of drugs in our system right because we'll get a big should be clear about that right by, but the idea as I mean think about this way, I mean it know. I grew up. You know, especially with my parents, you go. and I'm in a ban, and they this assume that all your buddies and

the banner drug you have to read, you know so this this individual, All the information that we hear and collects on him is turned over to law enforcement. Now law enforcement agree with the private investigator and says that you know what this is a very good suspect in hand. No we're gonna look into this there's not. They are we're able to link him to the murder of me as a pot, unlike we said before them in our biggest weapon here, our biggest ally. Here it is lie detector and I I ve been able to find aim formation of day if they were able to question this suspect right. The statements that I saw didn't didn't include anything whether he took a polygraph or submitted himself to a polygraph or not one thing we should think about, though, to it

But he is unable to account for their whereabouts or somebody this blacking out often you might get a lot of answers. It or I don't know, but I don't know I don't know what I I don't know in their not lying there, not lying them. So the polygraph may not help you in this situation, but the police, a statement was basically We had nothing to link this individual to the actual murder again with the private investigators the same as law enforcement law enforcement was frustrated because every time they got a piece of evidence, he kind of went nowhere when they got a lead and went nowhere, and that's that in vain happening now with the private investigator and a ban would not stop right and because there is a lot going on with the band and what they were true their efforts we're trying to pull together at the same time that this private investigator has unleashed her investigation she's following these people around some of them.

is in nineteen. Ninety five: the gets a collaborated with joan jet. yeah they made an album and they did a tour to benefit the private investigation. Further of me as upon his murder, they they named the ban evil stig which I'm a little unclear on this captain? You might know better than me, but it obviously spells gets, live or gets live backwards like Livia gets, live and joan jet, did a m. She, something she she wrote, a song about, a woman being attacked on the streets which was kind of you know based off of what she knew about me as upon his case. Well, I know that a seven year bitch wrote a song called. Am I a which was, I think, loosely based on the actual murder of me as a partner, and that record, I believe, was called viva

zapata, yes, and a lot of people would you know at these benefits shows, would yell vivo zapata, but were also were another thing that was super weird about this was me: I wrote a song penal before her death and end. It was talking about her being attacked I a serial killer, which I mean. Now we note like talking heads right. You know psycho killer because kissy. Ah, so you know, I n it's a dark subject, but I think there's a lot of bands that have drawn on this on the true crime topic for for songs. Well, I believe that song was called the sun. of the crab or something like that and you gotta keep a mind. You know she's in seattle at the time of the green river killer. Investigations going on in that was something that did not stay out of the news. Hardly at all you know. So this would be something that anybody with their ear to the groundwork,

been aware, of which I mean thing about the ban- mates, though that recorded on that song and now one through what they ve gone through and having listened to those lyrics and and how you know almost like a fortune teller me I was to her own life. Now we say that the ban raised over seventy thousand dollars to hire this private investigator for a three year time period. Eventually, the fund, did dry up there no major breaks in the case during this time, but the investigator lee heron she continued to investors on her own time, afterward for many years now It was in nineteen. Ninety eight after five fears of investigation, the seattle police, their detectives basically came out and said. Unfortunately, we are no closer to solve.

In this case, then we were right after the murder and so much time has passed in that in this case, but the ban late, I think, has said I mean I just champion them Steven and all the guys in the gates and everybody that helped them. as well, but they they didn't just raise money in awareness. For this case they also raise money for like self defense classes you they called the organization. It was self defense group called home alive and the name obviously coming from wishing mia would have got home alive. That night

How could young women and girls fend off these type of attacks, so they would have taught self defense. They also taught martial arts and the use of pepper spray, so they could defend themselves while they're out on the streets and make it home alive on the bank that is set on their thumbs and did nothing, but they did it like. We said they raised a bunch of money, they got a private investigator involved. They they started this group for self defense classes, but you know it's nine years into this case. You know, as every year goes past he gas Thinking like at people are losing hope at this point out by four year. Incredible incredibly, I mean this: it's gotten colder and colder and colder as the years have gone. By, not only did the police investigation go called the private investigators run, leads nine years later and we're not looking at any type of way of solving this, except for one thing we remember, we talked about the police,

in the investigators doing their due diligence. Well, they were able to collect some dna, tiny, little minuscule amount of dna that they collected and they had the foresight. to save that dna, rather than pushing the chips and risk it and potentially destroy the d and never solve me as case right. As time lapse, we have new technology. Yes, there is incidents going on in dna evidence and what they can do with that and a lot of this comes about by way of a guy named carry mullahs. He wins the nobel prize. As for chemistry, in the nineties, and he developed something hold it polly. Maurice chain reaction will we're just gonna, a pc are, so we don't have to keep repeating that. Why don't you tell us what pcr is kept well If you see I just bow gracefully, I want it again. I am

captain, not a scientist. You know this advanced science stuff gives me a migraine headache. It was again there there's a lot of little documentaries in one of the things on this case. That I thought was interesting was the forensic files and they kind of break. This down a little bit better than probably I will, but basically what they are able to do. It's it's almost a photo copier for dna, so they are able to take the small sample and duplicate it now by the duplication we have enough to sample, but we also have enough to? Ah, if if the test doesn't go right that we might be able to sample again or photocopy it again now this the nobel peace norton nobel peace prize, the nobel prize, as was one and ninety ninety three the same year as her death,

the reason why they waited so long was because pcr wasn't perfected yet, and there were still there was some trials and errors, and so with such a small sample, they could have tried the pcr and I could not worked and then again damage this dna. We'll get right back to the breakthrough in this case. After this quick beer but the hello, fresh, you get farm, fresh proportion, ingredients in seasonal recipes, delivered right to your doorstep, skip trip to the grocery store and count on hello, fresh to make home cooking, easy, fun and affordable that why it's america's number one meal kit flavour is in full. Luke hello, fresh, enjoy the tea of spring was chef crafted recipe.

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So many options for toilet paper, quintuple apply. This role is titanium enforced. This one is made from elderly trees. Is that good, just grab angel soft, it's simple, soft and strong, and for any budget angels I thought and strong simple, The alright cheers mates. So we have a break in the case. Yes, and just like us of the investigators believed early in this case. When all the leads dried up, they believed without any dna did this case would probably never be solved when you have. I applaud law enforcement for not losing this evidence. Yes, losing it and not risking it by testing it too soon until the technology had fully developed. Thank god, farming

I was not involved in deciding to think so. Here's the way that this goes down captain. It takes quite a bit of time, as we had said, but in two thousand and one they are able to amplify I the dna that they found on me as a patter. Now this was from the saliva. There was collected near the bite marks that were on her chest and it's gonna have two strands of dna, so so there's the dna, but what it stating as that one strand is me as a pat as strand and the other strand is of a male. Yes. That, though, the worry that the in the face when they went into this, that it might have just been me as dna and that they wouldn't be able to extract anything else. What they end up finding is hers, along with it's single source male dna. They enter this into the system

in this, as in two thousand and one, and it failed to generate any positive results, matching it to a suspect. But this system has a name right. Yes This would be the quota system that we ve talked about several times on on the show. So, but what is to break down? Simply quotas is where, if you commit a felony, then they collect your dna and it goes into the system. happens. Here. Is there in two thousand and two Is a man arrested in florida on the others of the united states burglary and domestic abuse charges in two thousand and two they collect his dna during this time. This man is hey Zeus, ski- and he is a man that had a history of violence towards women, including domestic abuse,

a burglary as we have mentioned, assault and battery is well now all of his ex girlfriends in his wife had filed reports against him at some point in their relationships. Here's the thing captain Now we have king county investigators are going to have to go to florida and try to find hey. Zeus muskie. He commenced The crime is d n aids in the system, but they have to keep testing. They keep have to keep running the test to find a match within the system, so somebody kept doing their job yes, and so now the now law enforcement has gone down and they're going to try to capture This monster bright, and you know it. Let's give credit where credit is due. You said somebody had to keep running those tat. Somebody had to keep this dna evidence and store it. The person responsible for that her name is jody SAS,

she would. She worked at the washington state. Crime lie while jody SAS. I lack georgie there. You go now captain you know that these things are never as easy as they appear to be right. You can just you can't just go marching up the somebody's door, not three times they open up the door. Greet you with a smile ago, guess what sir we have dna on this murder. Victim here's your hand, have put em on and let's go to jail forever right and never works. That way, I wish that it did, but the king county investigators have to go to florida to try to locate hey Zeus missing and they have to be there when they need to apprehend him, but they're gonna have to question him. First is not just a simple as arresting him because he found his dna. They go to his home where he and his wife were living. I dont know know if this Zeus guy just really lucky. You know to get away with murder for this many years and then he gets lucky again because they

from talking to his wife that he left the home just days before they arrived and I dont that it had anything to. I don't think they put it on an announcement that they were going looking for this dude right, so he leaves the wife has nothing but bad things to say about this guy, and she's going to give them every bit of information that she has, so they can apprehend him while yet sees bribe me he'll be her four years, so she provides them with a very good description of vehicle. You know what kind of car he's driving make a model year, all that good stuff prob even the license. Plate numbers well they're, going to put this information to all their blue blood brothers throughout the state of florida and they're. Looking for this guy they're looking for his vehicle well, his goes spotted a few days later in miami

that's! When the investigators gonna go to miami and knock on his door where he staying they interview hazels, I theirs it sounds to me. I was they didn't videotape the interview. I was unable to witness it right, but from the way that the investigators described the you there might have been a bit of a law which barrier between the events gaiters and raises not yet now he was in the country for a long time, but he was a illegal immigrant. Yeah, and he was from from cuba, so they're talking with them, and he saying you know, I don't know what you're talking about and I did murder anybody. I've never murdered. Anybody also claims that he was never in seattle leave as well. That's exactly right now

the investigators do something pretty interesting here and they basically provide hazel with a photo lineup. Well, it's a photo lineup of, unfortunately, a bunch of dead young women victims and their pointing to each one in there saying you know, do you know her? Have you ever seen her? Have you talked to her? Have you dated her all these questions about every single one of these pictures of these girls and hazing? I don't know any The answer is no to every question that they have, including all the questions that they ask him about the picture of me as a pot, and so what the detectives are able to take from his statement. Is he saying I've never met her? I've never spoken to her. I didn't know her. Well guess what you just did

later trap right. There began gotcha, because guess what if you didn't know her, you never spoken to her. You ve never met her. Then why is your saliva on her? Then? Why was it their shortly before she died. Not now, do you think the cops confront him right then, when he said no I believe he was arrested very quickly after that statement right, but made, but they didn't like, say hey. This is how we got you right because, as far as the detective in the room, I would have said you done messed up a round. Well, they're gonna continue to build their. ace against cases. No one that comes about pretty quickly after they arrest him is they're gonna put picture on the news in the newspapers because their hand be that they finally made an arrest emmy as upon his case. Well, a woman that comes forward and she had actually filed a police report weeks before the murder and this police

report was because some me, and had exposed himself to her ok, so says you know what remember that report that I filed back and ninety ninety three, that was the guy, was free. Willie That was the guy that exposed himself to me. Well, he's got kinds of bribes now asia's does, Not only did he leave his dna evidence on the murder victim but now the prosecution has a living witness to to testify against this guy saying that he was in the area. This is what he was up to. He could have done the same thing to two mia: but they were also to be able to establish that he was in the area living like blocks away for, where her body was found, yeah that there were able to establish that he lived about three blocks from whereby he found the other interesting thing here and I don't think they were able to prove it

I always wondered. If maybe he worked for a taxi company yeah. I there were some rumour about that. It's a little hard to trace him too, to pinpoint honour, updated. a basis where this guy was. He was a drifter for most of his adult I've money, the illegal yeah any lived in. They know that he lived in florida, arizona, in Washington in- and it was a bit of a brief stay and why indeed I believe- but he had some kind of small criminal history in both the state of florida in arizona. What He had a criminal history. I think in cuba. I think that's the reason why they, they basically sent him here yeah and let's not get into that in relation that's a whole there's a whole another conversation, political, but the thing here this have you seen this guy on tv, he's a large may come of scary, like he s got like a football player.

Type, build tomb where I mean like he's tall big, shoulder long arms, and that was the thing that her ban mates and the private investigator said when they saw him on tv and saw that he was arrested. They thought you know really fortunately maiden stand much of a chance against the sky right. They believe that the way that this thing went down is that she shhh when she left her friends apartment around two, a m. They think that pay Zeus would have spotted are probably within about fifteen minutes of leaving their. Then he followed her for a bit of time, she's wearing the who phones most likely wearing the headphones. Like you said, and she may not have even heard him creep up behind her and grab her an attacker enforced Well, you not only a murder victim, but the last hour. of her life must have been hell in this guy's. Isn't it is a monster?

No, we do. I feel like that. Word is over used on our show a little bit, but that's all- I see when I look at the sky. It seems like this case, obviously was actually motivated that's his motivation here. You know. We also have the fact that he is now flash flashing himself. wonder too, if he was like a peeping tom, ah, but There is no doubt in my mind that he has done this before before MIA a, if did after, and I'm sure that there's other cases that this guy it's connected to yeah. I was really hoping that his you know once he was arrested and then convicted, he was convicted in two thousand and four and and he you know he convicted of first degree, murder meaning that they they fully agree and are aware that he abducted her and Nan, assaulted her and then killed her knowing what he was doing, the entire time. I was hoping that, with his picture being

the papers and being on the news that somebody just like that lady, came out from ninety ninety three. I was hoping more p it would come out in maybe beheld solve some cold cases because, like you said, get the item I Him into the been of once again, stir, always a monster, the unfortunate thing you know, I think, god this case was solved. That's all you can hope for when these horrible things happen. When people I should say when horrible things happen, it makes a sound. It just happens now when peep, or will people go out and do horrible things too? Good people? That's all you can hope for, but it was a little. It bothered me a little bit it. I'm not gonna lie to you that he heel and receive thirty six years for that's for abduction, assault and murder. it seemed a little light I do take. I do take some there weren't able to charge them with the rape as well or that included in,

salt travellers. It may be included in the assault charges on a little unclear on that, you think that I'm the thing, but I can be somewhat happy about. Is I have in my notes here that he was forty eight years old at the time of his. I dont know if that said that of his arrest, her conviction, but regardless he would be in his late forties, maybe fifty years old by the time he was convicted, I'm hoping that with a thirty six year, in sentence that this guy never sees the light of day again, while you know he had to go back to trial right, yes, so this is what drove me nuts? As you know, thirty six years doesn't seem like enough. You know, especially for somebody's life, but so he goes back to trial because they said, while That penalty is too harsh, not have a new trial, but we're going to you know, re re sentence, re sentence, you yeah, and he waived his rights. Okay, which made the

We see where a sense, because, as the reason why there, having the recent in seeing trial anyways, he rave waved his rights David jury that force it back onto the judge and guess what the judge did ball or move right here just recently sent thirty six. ok, very good. I have the he never testified on his own behalf, but he has maintained his innocence in this crime. Obviously, we have proof positive that he is not innocent of this crime I think we all can learn something from her ban mates, her friends, her family, the ban that gets. We can learn something of don't give up. Keep talking about the case, keep trying to shed some light on the case, and then maybe we can get some justice yeah. Once again, the gates were made up of me as a potter andrew kessler, Steve market already and Matt dresdner, and if you get a chance

make sure you check out the work of me as a partner and the band that gets cabin a little recommended reading for your cabinet. Yes, colonel all right, sir. we have received and thankful were very thankful for this. We received a lot of praise for our episodes. Last week. We did the killing fields trilogy, that took a lot of research to put that baby together, and one a dimension that you give credit where credit is due in a lot of that research came from the Houston chronicle the newspaper down there. as well as Catherine casey's book called deliver us. So if you are looking to learn more about the texas killing fields and more about the two cases within that case need a check out. Catherine cases book deliver us and you can do that by going to our recommended page, a true crime garage dot com and you can pick up any. Books that we recommended their dvds, we recommended there simply by clicking on the

amazon banner and your little purchase cash. You nothing extra, helps out the show thanks ever. For joining us in the garage this week in until next week be good, be kind and don't let her this spring transform your outdoor space

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