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Missing Welch Girls /// Part 2 /// 108

2017-05-17 | 🔗

Missing Welch Girls /// Part 2 /// 108


In the early morning hours of December 30th, 1999 in Welch, Oklahoma a trailer home fire is reported. Firefighters arrive and put out the blaze. The dead body of wife and mother Kathy Freeman is discovered. Her husband, daughter and a family friend are missing. Law Enforcement theorized Kathy’s husband Danny shot her, set the home on fire and abducted his daughter Ashley and her friend Lauria. The following day, to everyone’s surprise Lauria’s family looking for clues at the scene of the fire find the dead body of Danny Freeman. Tonight we gather in the garage and discuss what could have possibly happened that night in the trailer. We also want to know what happened to Ashley Freeman and Lauria Bible.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Still metals. Dad loves tools that work is hard as he does so. This fathers date given get he'll love to use right now, He dollars on the steel episode fifty seven battery dreamers it setting clues if I say fifty seven battery tremor plus the eighty in battery and l wanna, one charger offer only a hundred and forty nine dollars and many mind since real steel find you. Where did steal, dealers thought come one. Ninety, nine! Ninety, nine emma s, s army offer ballot through six eighteen, twenty three eh participating dealers, while supplies last Name is jason alexander, the star of bedtime stories of the angle side in a brand new scripted comedy in which I play palm springs. Hotelier mel haber, through in the nineteen seventies, turn the run down run down into the best kept secret, get away for hollywood's elite. The series also stars Brian Jordan, Alvarez Michael, the keen richard kind, lance basque, and what you can find bedtime stories of the ingleside. I didn't on serious xm, pandora stitched or wherever you get your podcasts, but don't forget to follow the jobs. Are you never misses episode?
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ass, a beer tonight we are drinking pirate bomb by the great people. Over prairie, artisan, ales and beautiful tulsa oklahoma are mean midi, garage, great foreign, three quarter bottle caps out of five I've got my son for glass full of this fantastic imperial stout and it's delicious, with hints of vanilla, cocoanut, full bodied and smooth. Maybe it of today show I'll tell you my favorite pirate, Joe and maybe a punch in your face, but first if the bomb was brought to us by these land lovers. First up we have rebecca in south yorkshire, uk and in london, england. We have daisy, oh daisy, you just as pretty as a daisy and a shout out to Ashley and courtney down in texas. Also in texas. We say thank you to whiskers and another listener, that's as curious as a cat danielle.
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but obviously everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer, let's talk some true cry: the parent's worst nightmare that has lasted ten years, if one family doesn't want you to forget two missing teenage girls. This is K a way of news at ten. I brought to justice adopt out quick tomorrow, marks the tenth anniversary of the murders of daddy and Cathy freeman and the disappearance of their daughter and her friend the fragments were murdered and their home was burned.
the ground and well took lama december thirtieth? Nineteen? I do not think there are sixteen year old daughter, astley was hosting a birthday sleep over with her friend, laura bible or the bodies of the freeman parents were found inside the burned home, no trace of actually laura wherever found or as mother hope. Someone could still come forward with information and collect the fifty thousand dollar reward for can have borne the anniversary, and the investigation tomorrow the we were getting into the theories regarding the unsolved murders of danny free men and his wife, Cathy freeman, as well as the mysterious disappearances of their daughter, ashley, free men and her friendly.
a bible which took place december thirtieth ninety ninety nine, continuing on with those theories, one got to yet was theory number three, that the police had killed danny and his wife and then set fire to the the trailer destroying evidence and abducting the girls. Talk about this one here for a second, because this is one that is near in dear to the the hearts and minds of the freeman family, there's a lot of family members that believe that this is the actual situation more win your loved ones comes out and says: hey of anything ever happens to me, look into the sheriff department. Yet in there exactly what danny had said to his brother dwayne before he was killed. and he had also told his brother that the according to danny that he was told by the sheriff department that they could
anything that they wanted to him and his family and there wasn't a thing that danny could do about it. I never will when we started the likelihood that law enforcement would be involved, or possibly involved in so many different cases. Yet is it I think that we seem to bump up against time and time again when we're covering these unsolved cases, but situation here as we spoke about danny's run in with the law. You know this all occurred after His son shane was shot by the police, The situation is this: the wheel we have some other factoring things here. Not only was danny following around in hanging out in front of the officers home and being followed by the officers as well, but a call and to local accounts. danny Freeman once threaten the lives of police officer David haze. This is the officer that shot and killed his sunshine. The other thing is that danny, according
entered the wayne. His brother said that the sheriffs department was threatening him well, so why some like Danny was the harasser and also being harassed self, and I dont know all of the specifics regarding their son being shot. But all reports that I have read seems to me like it was a justified shooting by police as well. As you know they do. conduct their own investigation and they state that it was a justified shooting that the officer David haze it he was simply defending self against an armed man that was room to be suicidal that wanted suicide by cop. That was seem to be out willie, you know willingly committing crime watering. Dr rath eager vocabulary is wrong. I dont think it was a man still at that point. I think he's a boy
eventually he seemed very much like a boy at that time, but the the the situation is this okay, there is no evidence to suggest this theory is correct and the the officer David Hayes who shot and killed the son shane and his brother is in law enforcement as well now both of them have taken polygraph exams after the girl's disappearance, and there was nothing within those exams to conclude or suspect either one of them of having any involvement in the disappearance or the murder of the freemans and lore bible. Now we also have that they're not even considered suspects. In this investigation. One thing that I want to make clear to that. They were never personally involved. In the end, the of the murders or the disappearance, because there was a conflict of interest so as soon as this case took off they
immediately got the the oklahoma state bureau of investigation evolved and for them they took over the case because their plight, like said there is a conflict of of anybody There is one strange connection that I would like to bring up, though, in this this would kind of further the law enforcement conspiracy theory here is that several of the girls relatives participated in a pilot of a television programme called what really happened. This took in october, two thousand and one the show was not purchased by any of the networks and has never been broadcast it. Now there was a woman named Deanna dorsey, she's, a nurse who assisted the free men's on the night of chains death. She appeared on the show, gave interviews in such the other connect
Four deanna dorsey is that her daughter was a friend of Ashley's back and ninety ninety nine now Deanna was shot and killed at the hospital where she worked. This was shortly after a taping of this show. What really happened. Authorities slid ok alone, so this nurse comes out and she is on this the programme that never gets picked up right, but for every by all accounts people thought I was gonna get picked up and she comes on and makes these claims on this and then she is killed at her work. She, I don't know that she claimed that law enforcement was involved. All I'm saying that she gave interviews regarding this. This tv show now would have been known in the area throughout the community that the show was taking place that their recording in their minor viewing different people in right, again, less remind everybody. This is a town of six hundred people, how sort of very small community
yeah and the neighbouring town, which the large one has over six thousand people. So again, another small community decisions. she is this, though my guess, is that she's, probably at some That you'd want to seek out to interview, because at this point, when you're, when you're making the show the parents, She no longer exist to conduct these interviews. She was close to the family and with them during the grieving process when they lost their son right, and so she would have known some intimate details regarding the death of shane and regarding how the family was trying to cope with the loss of their son. A dorsey. She was shot and killed by a man named Ricky, martin and he was a former employees of the same of the same hospital where they both had worked now. This gentleman,
p martin. He suffered from paranoid schizophrenia way also suffered from shaken his bonbon. Well, they believed that he was angry because he was let go from his job and that he came into work and he shot Deanna dorsey at at his former work. I'm sorry to be insensitive. It's this! It's hilarious, his name, hilarious. Now. I think why people connect this to you know, there's some obvious connections immediately. You know with with the anna dorsey, having been close to the freeman family and her daughter knows Ashley freeman, so there's those connection she's involved in the shaping of this tv show, but I think what kind of tops theory off the conspiracy theory off here is that Ricky Martin was was shot and killed by police that same day and you It's it's. Oh, he was shutting her up and now we're shutting him up.
But the thing is he he did. He stopped he suffered from this this disease and he must have freaked out there only thing they can come up with, is that you freaked out about having been let go and they when in there, with the intention of harming somebody as oda of revenge for losing his job, the or up the whole place it. It doesn't look like it was. She was, I think, just a place at the wrong time. I don't think she was targeted directly by breaking martin and you good reason to believe that big, because law enforcement and the hospital itself have come out and say did that the two of em didn't know each other that that, even though that they in the same location. No one could make any ties between the two of them that they did Martin would have had any reason to target her or that specifically went there to kill her. She doesn't happen to be the person that he encountered when he was on this.
mph war. We normally know where I sit on these things. Captain conspiracy, you ve, been accused many times of loving a good conspiracy, yeah I'm guilty as charge as cause, I'm crazy, but where you sit on this the whole police theory at least was involved. I dont think that the police theory holds any wait for me. I I see where we have the confrontation between danny and the other officers, the harassment yeah. I see that in inheres. Here's, where I'm going to take this thing. Did danny cross the line? In my opinion? Yes, did law enforcement cross. The line in the situation before that, this family was murdered. I dont know and I'll tell you why, because here's the thing we have ports of danny sitting in his vehicle in front of officer. Hazel hall. That's much different to me, then, if you were, if, if you sat in front
home in a vehicle multiple times. I would feel like you're threatening my family. If you personally just said something to my face, where you threaten me, I would take that that would be a lot less to me than a threat of you. Sitting in front of my face these home noted. Now I do understand blue blood man. You gotta, have your you gotta. Have your brothers and sisters backs? You know you can't. We can't have disgruntled citizens sitting in front of officers, homes intimidating them. However, I dont think that your way of taking care of that problem, that would make any sense. It doesn't make any sense to go and kill and murder the family and abduct these girls to me. You there would have had means of taking down any freeman. I believe I believe they did that if some of rumors were true regarding danny and his behaviour right, I believe they problem
could have arrested him on on a number of charges and that they would have felt safe with their families and their personal safety having him simply behind bars and not have to do harm to innocent people that happened to be in family members are associated with danny, so I think, that's why doesn't hold anyway. For me, I think that the police, if they were in the chair, department. If they really wanted to correct the problem by being bullies, they could have done it by different means right. So what you're saying is pretty much what I think as well, but We're gonna, put a little clear round. Think you're as clear as we could be crystal clear right. So what you're saying is- and what I believe is that they could a they could approve, move danny from the situation or they could just taking care of danny and why would you involved you know the wife within then also, why would you involved the daughter and then on top of that
I would you involve the daughters friend right that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I think part of them. Bad, because this guy was harassing them, but I think part of em felt bad like we, to do our job. We had to defend ourselves, but I guarantee you. They didn't feel good about themselves now when, when they got home the here's, this kid that was suffering from Maybe a mental illness, maybe just maybe was depression who knows, but he was acting out for some reason he was acting out. and they had this officer, had to defend his life and that that's a tough thing for that officer to have to do and then it's a small town, small community. You have to look this father in the eye and you
what you did, but you know what you did was right and to defend yourself. The problem with any these please conspiracies, or these long for forspent, conspiracies as if it was just danny. They just found danny dead and the home. It was ablaze and nobody else was dead. Nobody was missing, both yeah look to the sheriff, but these people that want to start thinking that law in force would take an innocent person that has nothing to do with anything and murder that person our place, that person on sundays property after the after they martyrdom it, makes zero sense, yeah, and I think you really hit upon something here, because I think that that's probably the reason why they never arrested danny for any of these things and put him behind bars so that he couldn't hurt their families. I think they were trying to show danny a bit of compassion.
right and in in the means that did they threaten him or threaten is his family. I believe that pop probably happen and but I dont think that they have any intention of carrying out those threats. Now remind you, I'm a thousand miles remove from the situation in, and you know many of your later but the, but my gut feeling tells me that you know win win sitting out in front of my home and I that that I fortunately, was thrown into a situation where I had to defend myself in your son lost his life. I can see I could see myself saying you know what I'm going to deal with this problem of him being in front of my home by him intimidating my family, I'm going to deal with this problem with words and not with fist, not with cuffs, not with guns, I'm going to deal with it with words, and if I have to get into an argument with this gentleman or if I have to have an x
change with this gentleman and he's threatening me, and it leads me to threaten him? I I can believe that the threats happen, but again I dont think there there was any intention of carrying out. any of those threats, one the big red flag here too, is initially at the scene. It was just cathy that they found dead. It wasn't until it was until the bibles came around that they found danny dead themselves or or mean of the dogs help. Yet so you know you're trying to cover something. Knob you'd think you do a better job of policing the crime scene. Well only that they release the crime scene very early. You know, that's why the bibles found danny's body and then to further that the FAO one day after Danny's body was found. They opened up that property because it was a large property to vote tears. They had over five hundred people there that day searching the property for any of it. regarding the whereabouts of the girls, or you know possible evidence of committed these murders right so
you're saying, is why open this up? First, each party, if you're trying to contain it. Yeah I'll, be really fishy if they said you know what you are, we stand. We got two missing girls here, but we don't want you, sir. in the property. They could sat on that property for days and ass right. That would have been fishy. So look, I know, I know he is targeted got feeling now you're, listen to this case out there and you start thinkin, all, maybe its law enforcement. My gut is me after you look at the evidence after you look at the procedures that took place, I don't think there's a lot of weight that theory. So, let's remind everybody what the remaining three theories were regarding this case now mine, These are theories based off of law, forcemeat based off of people in the community family members. These are these. Are air theories, and I want to go through these three, because I think what we're going to cover next and in the second half of today show will I want you to think about these different suspects
we go through them and how they could fit into either of these theories dessert their somewhat similar. So theory number four that the police were not involved, but danny was targeted and he was the target due to drug activity theory. Number five was that the girls were actually the target that the motivation for this attack was abduction and that the parents were just killed in the fire was set to hide evidence in a murder, human trafficking and then the sixth theory that they were working off of? Was that someone that new the family had killed the free men's and abducted the girls so interesting to me when there's multiple confessions into a case where start rolling in and this the first one comes eighteen months after the crime was committed in this a jailhouse confession by several inmates. They state that, they had seen. The girls are knowledge of the girls being at home, that was, in the area, this home
also known to law enforcement, and this would have in on new year's eve, nineteen, ninety nine so the day after the girls were abducted, these guys we're saying that they had knowledge or seen the girls there now this was a suspected drug house. Their accounts are this dead. Did the girls were being held captive there, they were being assaulted and tortured and they didn't happened to the girls, but they knew that they were there on that date. situation that the police. They have room to believe this because, like I said this is already a home that is known to law enforcement, business a home. they drug house. Yet keep an eye on the house to keep an eye on the occupants of the house, so they get a search warrant. The net sorry war and they decide to raid the home. Could they do not find any evidence of the girls having been there now mind you. This is eighteen months later they did find,
A lot of evidence regarding met better mean manufacturing, and so they were able to take down the necessary people because of that and make charges there. The other stuff thing is that one of the jail house confessors claimed that there was a tape of some a vhf tape of some of the activity that was going on that day in that home and that he didn't know where the tape would be located or where it could be found, but he had viewed a portion of that tape at some point and then the tape would have been of them being taught Isn't that what they're saying you probably motion weekly or you know you don't have to use your imagination too much too too, to think of what could be on that tape. Now I not locate these, that the men made these statements. I could not locate their names and walls that doesn't surprise me because they,
bright, but essentially, is not a confession because there are not the ones that work. You know they didn't abduct. The girls the ones that said hey what were at this party, and we about it. We turn a blind eye, that's kind of what their confessing to write well, which would be a crime they're, probably sitting down, stating that you know what I can give you. I can give you what I know as long as this doesn't come back on me right, you're, guilty of being a piece of shit. Yes, but again, I it doesn't surprise me that we cannot locate the names of these guys because it's a jail, else confession they're, not gonna, release these names that that's the kind of stuff that they you know. You get the prison, this within the walls. They went part of the other reason that they wouldn't release this stuff. Is that their their confessing to being or of something again, not the ones that captured these girls, but there at this party with these known drug dealers that by all,
If you're saying, if what they're saying is true, these people murdered these people, they these people, murdered the parents and then abducted these teenage girls and sewed law enforcement doesn't have to say who who said this stuff right now and obviously I think law enforcement felt like it. There was some validity there because they did the raid death, so a geek guinea. That doesn't mean it. That's what they're saying does not true shall be. It could True, yes, it is, but but as an inmate, if I sit down and I'm going to pass along knowledge of something I know about, of a horrible crime, I'm not going to want you to use my name You know why I don't want anybody, they use my name well. My final thought on this theory here captain is his. There is one little tin bit of of evidence here. If, if in act. These stories are true. Then the one gentleman stated that I should say. Gentlemen, the one dude stew
did that there was a vhf tape. Now does that tape still exist? I would I would The smart wager me would say: no that has probably been dis, destroyed and gotten rid of, but keep that in the back of your mind there because these things have you know the truth has a way of coming out in the long run, and this is something that you can. Onto that that there might be some evidence out there. There's somebody could stumble across one day or find one and we would be able to to punch micro, and we would be able to solve this case regarding the situation. Worse this goes back to my original thoughts of why the heck they probably moved out there to begin with, I mean, if you just grow low pot. You know maybe you want some way, and I must say that people want does want lane anyways. What
when they talk about drug activities and being a royal area, a cup on saying that there's, probably meth, amphetamines or or something of that nature goin on I was deafening going on in the area if doubling going on in the area, but I'm saying goin on with danny, that's my gut feeling. So to me the I mean this is super creepy. If, if Why would you take these girls hostage other than for human trafficking and then you're gonna videotape, their torque bit them being tortured or sexually abused or whatever you say individual. You I mean, and it's very ah Can it reminded me of true detective season? One which was a crazy show but anyways, is that to me, there's so many creepy levels, that- and I wish we would know- I want to know-
where the investigation took him further, but if these people were just making drugs and then up their game as far as criminal activity, a flood, the area- and we never will know who it was an it probably was multiple people as well. Do you think it's possible because you know there's there is usually rumours amongst criminals right, there's theirs. Rumours amongst that crowd. Do you think that there is a possibility? that these guys in jail, that that maybe had heard a rumour that this drug, how was involved somehow, with these girls or the death of danny and thought. You know what we're gonna try to help them: there's well nigh that there's a reward and in maybe if, if this rumours right, I'm gonna get and like I know, somethin and maybe I get out early. Maybe I get released thirdly, you know, maybe just kind of taken. A shot in the dark there? Possibly, but I think the vetoes tape it's either.
said detail that you heard or diet where you could have been detailed. You make you make up I now to make yourself similar more believable, but I, I think, there's some weight this and in their makes, the and this theory make some logical. That was given to more theories, ran after this quick beer break, get look in the most fun to drive honda vehicles. Yet, like the sitting, Car and driver called more fun to drive in the competition and the hiv or style were exhilarating performance, make a move and find the junta Civic each for you
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I'm deal. You d join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die, the motive behind bruces murder, A series of events that have never been fully investigated until now. Binge all fourteen epoch loads of counter clock season. Five, wherever you isn't applied, casts, Alright, we're back cheers mates, cheers. We have a confession to get to hear and this is from an article titled authorities investigate death row killers. Claims is from the job when globe back in may of two thousand and two and I'll read some pieces of this article, so we can get it a good idea. What's going on Tommy lynn cells, age, thirty, eight, who is considered one of the nation's most prolific serial killers made the cat
in a letter to the joplin glow postmark may ten. This is easy, aiming to know the whereabouts of the two missing girls cells had previously claimed involvement in the ninety ninety nine disappearance of actually free men and laura bible, but he said that he couldn't remember any detail in the letter cells said he could now take authorities to wear the girls are buried. He says it he once you know what does he remember about december thirtieth? Well, he states that he, he wants to say this- that he read members where the two bodies are an he believes it can take them to the bodies, He also wants to remember a fire. Tommy cells was a drifter and sometimes carnival mechanic during his twenty plus years on the road cells claims he has murdered more than fifty people. Authorities have confirmed seventeen of his kills
some of them in illinois, Missouri and oklahoma authority, said that they are sceptical of the serial killers latest claim but said They will talk to re, but what we do know is that he was in the area. You know he has billions in that area. They they state that he would be considered a very good suspect or at least a suspect, and they said that they don't want to talk at the authorities. Don't want to talk about the credibility of anything because you know they're gonna talk to him because they dont have very many leads in this case, and they want to check every know what happens when they talk to well, his previous claim was: did he couldn't remember anything or any of the details regarding the case or the crime itself? Now, after some, some time has elapsed now, he's all of a sudden he's clear about what happened and he can lead him to the bodies he can talk about. The details of the murders,
the end result is it they take him to where he said, he'd disposed of the bodies- and this was near the red river, which is on the border of oklahoma and taxes and the the first of all, they don't find any remains, or any evidence that the girls wherever there or that their bodies, where there are, furthermore, way that he had described the area in the location of where they would find these bodies beforehand once they take him to the location, It doesn't even match up with, with his description of where he says he placed the bodies. Furthermore, he couldn't if any real details about the crime itself regarding how the freeman were killed, how crime went down he didn't know any details to two further make them. But
that he had any insight to give them. It will Yang you think, with all these goofy false confessions that law enforcement would get. Point where they got a camera. In this scenario, we have two dead bodies right. You gimme details of these right before we go on a wild goose chase, looking for these missing girls, when they actually did because he wanted to talk about this previously and couldn't provide him with any information, so they didn't take him out on the road they they waited until he stated you know now. now. I know this information now I can pass along this information. They believe that everything He was telling them what stuff that he would have been able to find in the newspapers right. You know stuff that that you and I could have told them about the crimes This basically goes nowhere and we're back to square one. This leaves us with a second confession, and this comes from I, by the name of Jeremy Jones and I'll, take him through a little bit of his background, so we can figure out if, if his confession,
and will carry more weight than that of tomyo and cells. So back and ninety ninety seven jones receives probation, he's put on probation for five years, he's living in the Oklahoma area and dirt he's probation because he has committed sexual salt. Three counts of sexual assault. Actually, so he receives five years of probation right in the year two thousand in december of two thousand and the year. He leaves Oklahoma and he goes to alabama now during the course of him, leaving the state He has assumed a new identity and he even received up social security number along with personal info. He got this from a woman, whose son was in prison in Missouri, so he steals this person's identity and he's Now in alabama,
well, while in alabama in two thousand and three he's arrested for indecent exposure and two thousand and four he's arrested for criminal trespassing. Now, the problem here is captain that, during both of those arrest you no fingerprints are taken and they fail to. Realized the real identity of this person? he's now going by the alias of John Paul chapman real jeremy jones. The authorities act to arrest. They do not make the connection that John Paul chapman is actually Jeremy Jones in two thousand and four he is arrested for the rape seed. hang of a forty five year old woman, this is LISA nickels, and this took place in alabama. Now he shot her he mutilated the body and he set her trailer on fire.
I saw the situation is as such. He states that they were out together this. She asked to come back to her home and at some point he believes was trying to rob him. She was going through his Things are his backpack or something like that. flew into a drug, induced rage killed her and set the trailer on fire. The problem here is, We have a situation where it's so much similar to the freeman martyr. You know we have the people that were shot in a trailer trailer set on fire. Yeah he's he's looking pretty suspicious at this point. Well to make matters worse. You know we already have this horrific killing of of the the woman LISA Nichols, but law enforcement failed to discover his true identity. You know he was here: on probation in that probation was revoked and the year two thousand, so he would have he's a fugitive from the law. At this point,
So, even though you have something as small as and indecent exposure or a criminal trespassing charge, this would they. They would then fat, you no ship here, but back the oakland. and port LISA nicholls would still be alive. I dont harp on law enforcement too much because for those of for those They don't know that the finger winning process is pretty complicated and it it's not uncommon that that things identities or such could slip through the cracks regarding fingerprints. One technology is way now and it, but it's a little troubling when it happens me no more than once with this individual, especially somebody as heinous as as jeremy jones as evil as he is because, while he is while they're waiting to convict him, we got a guy. He ends up confessing to it. of thirteen murders. They only end up urging him with three of those they could only.
Evidence enough to can get a conviction of three of those But what happens later is that he then confesses to the murders of Danny Freeman, Cathy freeman and abducted. Ashley freeman and laura bible and disposing of their bodies after he murders that his story goes that he knew somebody and, he knew a man. I knew somebody. Ok well, he knew a man named charlie, ok and charlie was associated with danny I've heard several counts of this story that that either army jones was owed money by danny Freeman or that Danny freeman owed this Charlie guy some money, rigour, listen, that's his connection to Danny Freeman, he goes to the freeman home to collect what what is his, what he believes.
Is hit? He says that he spends hours driving around looking for the freeman home. There's makes sense, There's not a lot of proof that he would have known where the home was, with the exception of, had he ever gone there with charlie or received information from Charlie than he might have known where their home is right, but such a remote area. It's it's very easy. If your friend lives- and you know if your friend lids and a subdivision right If you drive around enough, you got all my room. I remember this. Remember that this in harder to do in a remote area. Well, and I two- I want to read somebody's description of the free men's home, so they can get an idea of how hard. I think that this would home would be defined, especially in the door You know, I know I have. I have several friends: it live out and sticks out, I'll call it, but I've driven past I've been to their homes many times and driven pass the entrance to their home, even in the
daylight because they live so far off the road it's not well marked, but this The description from a local person that I found regarding the freeman home. They state that the means home, is a trailer located just outside of wealth city limits. Its located at the end of a half mile dirt driveway the property. is only identifiable by a simple mailbox that sat on top of iron. chain of an iron chain stand, and it basically the only indication that you would have that that somebody's driveway and just not some random dirt road is this. Tiny little mailbox, that's not me, no, its, not let its. And they have a little to most. People have glowing. Mailboxes well they have a little note, but they might have a light above. Our street light would be located near the the driveway, not this situation, and that a little bit of a rock formation near the driveway as well, that too
locals is the only indication that there is a home back there? Okay, so word is historic from here he's at the home and he is he's murdered, danny and catholic. He then, sets the trailer on fire and unbent to him that there were other people inside the the trailer he go. Outside he's getting ready to leave the property when the two girls. Come running out of the burning trade. Are so this back this up alone, so he and to collect his money from danny there's price, some kind of tussle because, like we know, Danny has broken carbon, so he get shot than he has to shoot. Cathy, the wife, because she's there she's a witness otis that all checks out driving around four. While could you can't find the property it's hard to find its nighttime? That checks out
to individuals in the trailer that he's not aware of so do the girls. here what's going on and they stay in the room and hide you know him He doesn't know why they, they didn't appear or does it state? Why did they doesn't see them until or even know that they're in the home until the places set on fire? He says that when it came out of the near ailer or real quick. Does he have a rough time line of one he's claims is that he shows up to the freeman home this is because we know that the boy from was there tell probably thirty ten. Ten thirty according to statements that I read, this would put him in the freeman home in the early morning, hours of the thirtieth ok. So so so can assume the girls would be asleep, and I do
everybody, to keep in mind that this is a bit of a vague confession and the reason I believe this is because he is a well known me Jones is a well known math head. He might not be details of this crime might not even be clear to him, but he states anyway, that Girls came rushing out of the trailer into his Surprise. They didn't know that key was the perpetrator of anything that had happened, they had taken place before the the trailer was ablaze. Well, maybe they slept through he. He says that they thought or assumed that he was passing by and saw the fire and had intended to report it or to help in some manner, so he gets them in his vehicle and they willingly leave the property. The problem is: not going to be alive for very much longer because of what kind of animal Jeremy Joe
it's right one. He he obviously seems like sex offender young eat. He definitely is and he says that he drove them to a location that was about an hour away, and he he s. Did one of the girls were The girls try to run off. He shot. And then murdered the other girl, and then he thought their bodies down into a mind: shaft, okay. So the problem with this mine shaft is it's one of these there's multiple, there's multiple pits and stuff in this location and also has a series of underground tunnels that could be fleshed out from time to time. Do too water ran, so he any any confessing years later, so this is years and years of possible flushing of these mines. Yeah then think the thing
don't like about his story and may be, and is what I want to know your thoughts, but The thing that I dont like about his story is that his story seems to make some sense. it makes a lot of sense even for a math head. You know because it lay it like. Said didn't know there were there. he has a motive. There's a logical explanation of why hued want danny and then there is obviously a logical explanation of why you once cathy dead because she's there right and he's probably in a member state, anyways yeah yo up or down
and I don't know much about it. So I'm not captain of meth heads ah, but then the girls were there and here's this guy with you know the sexual demons and he is a sexual deem exactly right. So so that's what that's to me. It's seems like ever then, he sane makes sense, with the exception of they do they do in extensive search of the area, in the mind shafts. These pits the tunnels. Nothing is found of the girls and an immediately when he realizes that date and find anything well. He takes back his confession. He's no longer confessing to to the mothers riah play by his lawyer. Them what here's the into, though you said he you know he confessed the thirteen. They only tried him for three yet, but those held up,
some of it so we'd. So now we do have some evidence that this guy confesses to stop that he actually does do, and then there is obviously enough evidence to find it, because if you confessed and if they would have found that body, if they would have found those bodies right that that would have been enough to convict him right. Of course. So again I think that's a play from the lawyer. You know and recant the statement, Is it when you compare the two confessions, Tommy lynn, sells to Jeremy Jones tommy lynn sells heed some of the things he confessed to. They were able to take off the box and clear because his confessions were accurate However, I would throw tommy lend cells into the category of he's, probably our generation's version of Henry Lucas, another another killer, but miss somebody that confess to multiple killings. You know that,
negative don t, be therefore he confessed, and I think that I think tommy lend cells was basically just a very weak disturbed man and I certainly guilty of multiple it. However, I think he wanted to be much. I can really lucas where he was thought. As of some kind of genius serial killer type I dont know. If the authorities or, if the media or of tommy lend cells himself gave him the nickname. But he was known by the nickname of coastal coast. You know, meaning here killed. Multiple peaceable monarch update you not gonna ruin. My aim, radio show for me and go have a highly can I call him coast coastal goes, but regarding Jeremy Jones you We know he is. He was from Oklahoma city, interesting, too, is that he leaves the state the fall wine year, you know it
don't I know that, yes, he was on probation. Yes, his probation was revoked, many became a fugitive Maybe he was running simply from that. I I wonder if he was running from these four murders that he had committed in later confess to recounting that confession went again the only I then I believe about the recasting is that it's a lawyer play and then also I mean as far as confessions go. Where does the bible family stand on? Any of these conventions are, if I had to guess what they would would think and believe Their theory, lorens theory with pride, bleed lean most towards Jeremy Jones, right, and in my you know my theory and the reason why we kind of hinted on this a little bit the how tough it would be to locate their home it would seem very strange to me that a person like tommy lynn cells did that he would have.
and able to locate this home. I don't think he knew these people. I don't think he knew the fragments, and it doesn't strike me that this is the time at home that some random killer travelling, the streets, girl there's a killer on the roads quota morrison would just dumbo upon this home and commit this horrible crime. Yeah, and I think, with Jeremy jones, there's a connection to danny for one. and then not just go with me on this. This is not too far fetched you need to collect money? Why? Because your mouth head right, so you go and you gonna kill danny than you. Gonna kill cathy, and then these,
come running out and you don't know a bunch of details of what has happened or what has happened right, you're kind of blurry with her details, but we have the first confession being these people in jail, saying well, the rumor is that we heard or a party that we were at could have been charlie's house rent, and it is this truly, as is charlie individual connected to this met house, and is it? Is it possible that just jeremy jones, connected or charlie connected to this myth house right and then that would make their story makes sense? And if any of those ah jailhouse snatches had say could come forward in a german jones was at that party
then there's more validity to that confession as well. If that is the way it happens, you're you're saying that Jeremy Jones would having abducted the girls, would have something to barter with to try to obtain more drugs or pay back a debt to his drug dealers right or because he killed danny. Maybe he found some money, you know in the freezer, maybe Dennett or maybe it was just. I have these girl They are not aware that I killed their parents and I'm gonna take him to this party, this drug party. new year's that there would have the girls there, I'm just saying that, then that is a possibility. There are some. problems with his confession he was arrested on the thirtieth at four a m and what a put him in the area of the freeman home, the price what that is, we have the matter.
Oh examiner, stating that they believe, I'm sorry. She believes that kathy women was killed at five p m so. This would make one if that in fact is I would love to know you know any time we're doing these cases. There's always that one little tin bit of of knowledge that I think is needed to really honan and target in and bulls. I a suspect and so there saying ok, so the bit of information in this one for me is that time of death. How strong do they feel about that fire? I m time time of denmark, five ay and time of death, but they're saying for I am he's arrested. that puts him in the area, yet It's been about ten or eleven miles away from the freeman home at four, a m. When he's arrested, he's arrested for like he's in talks, skating or high, or something like that.
But he's arrested. The other bit of knowledge it would be interesting to find out, is you know, what belongings did he have on him at the time that he was arrested? Did he have large sum of money. You know we have hundreds and hundreds of dollars in his pockets, when he was arrested or or was he alone, and maybe he just kick- maybe he's confessing the crime because he knows that he was involved somehow maybe wasn't alone. So maybe you maybe the young maybe they're, basing the time of death offer when they think the fire was started, its apposite because in the first known, citing of the fire would be at five. Thirty, a am right and if you- and if you back it up and you say, okay well, you know
me jones in in his friend, Charlie. Go to the house at midnight. One, a m: the martyrs could take place then Jeremy Jones actually leaves the scene and Charlie still at the scene to have the fire start where YA five, you kind of cross you crossed into what we were gonna get next year is regarding a tip that was received. This was received about a year, maybe maybe too, ago, but it was a tip that loreen Bible had received on her there's the on her way shades right. Yes, so she receives a tip that somebody should look into the well of this old dub old charley critter house now critter lives in cannes, but because of the state line is not terribly far from the freeman home and here's. The other thing now according to luring,
charlie and danny knew each other right. So here's what I'm getting at here and jeremy Jones states that he knew this. early guy, that danny owed money too Never says it's charlie critter, he just says charlie, there's a guy named charlie, now the according to local newspapers. Not only did charlie critter, no danny Freeman, because they might have faith dont in the local papers. I couldn't find any drug connection, but wanting to Lorene. There's a drug connection there, the local paper state that they knew one another because a they had worked together, one point and be dick, or owned several cattle that were, they lived on the freeman property. so there's another connection to this, this critter guy, while they dig there, given this tipp to search the well of of his former home,
right, they searched the well, they send cameras down deep into the well and they find they. They found no evidence that there there is definitely no bodies in their the only thing. I believe they found a some old some old bucket, but there was no other type of debris that lead you to believe that there were any personal belongings or clothing or anything of that nature. again what I was saying, though, as you know with Jimmy jones conversing. Maybe this not implementing his buddy Charlie and I moved all says well well, who is Charlie Charlie's, a guy that currently spending he's gotta serve fourteen years in prison for second degree murder? He murmured No, why he's a bad omber a woman and they found her body and a creek and the situation is they don't believe that couldn't find any evidence of sexual assault, so maybe he's not the same kind.
if animal that the Jeremy Jones is but you're exactly right. Captain we have a secure nation, where it's very likely that this charlie character that Jeremy Jones says he knows is in fact the same charlie critter that we ve been too king about their new danny there was rumoured that he owed money to one or both of these people. Here's what here's! What I think happened, I thought the authority. Given our theories now, I think we got because we ve been kind of beating around the whole time here. The item the two of em probably committed this crime together- and I think that that's only way that you could make. The timeline makes sense regarding Jeremy joneses involvement, while his arrest the eight, because it can be an arrested at four, a m that yet that is what kind of puts the wrinkle on the whole
compassion and loreen bible. Her belief is that did the connection between the crimes is in. The murderers is, is danny, fremont that somebody came to the trailer that night looking for danny for some reason- and this was the result and I'm going to give her the benefit the doubt and I'm going to believe what her got tells her, because I can tell all the research and breeding that I've done, that nobody has spent more time on this, ace in on this investigation, the writ then loreen bible, She knows that she knows the players involved where watch knows the characters and she knows the landscape. She she knows thing man on top of that, her motive for getting answers is stronger than anybody things of the loss of her daughter. I think that two people or more had to commit this crime because of one simple fact: ok, let's make a two simple facts, but they're pretty much the same thing. Ok,
You know we ve described danny Freeman very well to everybody It's easy to say that he has a temper There is no reason to think that if he was confronted or put in a situation that he didn't want to be in that he would not fight back this. This is a guy that would fight back one hundred percent safe. of all is rumoured to have a stockpile of guns and firearms on his property. You do not. I don't how much matthew do I don't care how dumb you are or how evil you are. You do not ouch, a man or his property. That is of that character. and has that amount of weapons by yourself europe and the reason why they would be approaching him is to get money to get me or to write. So when you're gonna go collect money from somebody, you don't show up empty, handed rain right and I think what happened here. I think that we have two terrible individuals. We have critter.
We have his buddy germany, joan rigour, and it's not a stretch to believe that they, those two knew each other- that they went to that home together to confront Jeremy arrives at a sorry, danny money well or org or he's making drugs. Like I said or he's making drugs you most likely could have went there too like money or just straight up to rob the guy pray and they get in this scuffle yet this situation, and then we have Jeremy jones about because it could be it apple has I'm out you know, creepy creditor is over there and he's as his cattle and danny just opens up. The freezer gets mice for a beer or something. oh what's than in the freezer. Ah, my daughter saving up for you know or they knew there was money on the property rights, I also believe that danny had some kind of collection that was full of valuables. Maybe they went there to collect that or the door. There was
disagreement, you never know, but with giving the character of these two guys of critter and jones, I didn't and it to me. I am with you on the fact that it doesn't seem, like its alone, individual, that it would be more likely be to individuals. I still feel like there's some validity to their the jailhouse niches, and that I said because that, in one of the issues here, Because Jeremy Jones is a math head, his story, make so much sense, but there are so many gaps, and so many canada's dark spots that that, if he could remember those or if you want to see did those and I think Maybe some of that some of stuff he's not stating correctly is because he doesn't want to implement on.
charles and probably the reason wise, because he knows that if he ever got out or if he ever was confronted with this individual again, he could be killed well, you know- and these two guys are very in some ways very different from one another critter has never confessed to to the murder that he has been convicted of he's. Not you know, talk about a he actually claims that he was framed jones. As we know, he'd from time to time will sing like a bird and tell you you know, every confession that you can think of jones did know is kind of a duty bird, but yeah Jones did know what type of gun were killed with. He also knew what accelerant was used to set the fire. So that's all I need, We have evidence there and the reason why I think it was the two of them is that I here's the thing little ones I hear Jeremy jones. You know we talked about this
covered Bundy a little bit and we talked about a little bit with the yogurt shop, ardors Jeremy Joan is a serial rapist. Ok he's a serial sex offender in every sense of the word. He somebody that's been convicted of such crimes before he stopped started, murdering some tea as we see what the serial killers that cannot control themselves, because that's the type of monster that they are they graduate from marked from rape to murder? And I think that's what we have here with Jeremy Jones. I think that if he were there. If you were there that night, there is no way he could have walked away from that trailer without abducting those girls that that's the sick and visual there? He is that's his addiction, So then math mean more so than the door. in the alcohol that his number one. Drug of choice is, is rape and I think that the we have a situation where they abducted these girls and they were able to get away with it because it was two of em and Jeremy Jones fit
into the timeline, because he was not involved after the hours of four. Am and, like I said, I mean I when you can tell what gun they used and can tell me what accelerant they used at. That's believable. The other things too. Is there some evidence, about cars being in the area that night, yet there there there were two Vehicles it responded near the freeman home again for remote area. There might not be any reason for, is to be in that area, but I'll to one was a dark, colored vehicle and it was about vague description given as a dark, colored sudan, the vehicle that was spotted between the this was between five and six, a m that morning, the the vehicle would have been a dark, colored truck. It's the way that I've heard this report, it is that these are two separate sightings.
Would mean to me that these vehicles warrant seen together, but what that me wonder. Furthermore, as we have this arrest record of Jeremy Jones, what were his possessions was he in a colored sedan word or a dark. Colored truck I know he would have been arrested at four. A m in these sightings were later. Did he have any video large amount of money on him? You know these are. These? Are the questions it that I would like to know this range thing here, though, captain is the law enforcement, they do not report the sightings of these vehicles to the public until I ten or eleven years after the crime, their basic, stating. This is some information that we got right after the crime took we held onto it because they were very vague descriptions of vehicles
now we're gonna release this information, because we want to know if anybody saw the same thing or has any idea what, if this has anything to do with the crime at all, why I also think that we see in law enforcement, get alot, smarter and given in for me to the public. Earlier now, and I think the more I do that? The more they're willing to say hey, we have this piece of evidence and maybe somebody would know something sp when this cases you know hot, when the cases. Ah, you know public. The public is concerned about the case you're, going to get more answers now, jumping back to the first theory that we discussed that the that the girls had perpetrated these murders- and you know- and I just want to touch on this- because I don't want anybody to to tell us- we miss something here, but there were sightings of these girls after the fact
law enforcement has dismissed most of these sightings for the simple fact that they were receiving sightings of the girls being in different states on the same day, meaning the ashley could have been spotted on one side of the country on Wednesday and she spotted on the other side, the country on that same wednesday. So date, you know when you, when you post these pictures and you send em out, people tend to see things. Maybe that's why they held the information on these vehicles that saved in one overloaded, with unnecessary tips. It might lead them the wrong direction. Yeah and, like I said from the beginning that the minute I saw ashley's picture, I thought, while that's my middle school girlfriend, I mean it looks exactly like her and
so I don't know, I think, sometimes when people here about missing people, they cannot see what they want to see. Well, sixteen years after the crime took place, we have local law enforcement, calling for tips, we are asking the public to put in their two cents and tell us what you saw tell us, which you've heard tell us what you know. The thing that's disconcerting about this. This plea for help from local law enforcement. To me is is the fact that, within this request for information, the district attorney's office states that they are encouraging any one that has called in tips in the last sixteen years If you are wondering if the information has been followed up on, please contact local law enforcement. Again, you know so kind of. I think their wondering what tips may have fallen through the cracks throughout the years.
they're letting the public know that they have new people and all of the sheriffs offices, all of the district attorney's office is there's new eyes, new mines, new people, manning these desk and manning the offices please submit these tips to these new people and cases that fell through the cracks. So we can piece this together, one yet that that's what they're saying that's the importance of what they're saying is and that's what and what makes it so, god is please report. Whatever you reported sixteen years ago again and the conclusion of this story, may we cannot believe Jeremy jones. Fashion and if they can find some more links, maybe there'd be some closure for the family or, if you could get him to turn on critter critter. To turn on jones would would be another way to go with it. I think they're going to have to find the bodies of the girls at this point to believe any confessions
come out. I think that's the only way that that you'll you'll be one again like. I said the problem with jones's. You know he's a drug addict, so I end ashley, freeman was actually declared legally dead by her family october, eighteenth, two thousand and ten As we have said earlier, the bible family remains at on the front line of this investigation loreen idle and her husband, J bible are really the driving force, hide the remaining investigation. Yet if you have any tips or any any information or just want to help out. You can check out their facebook page. Ah, it's fine, laura bible and that's laura l, a u r! I a yeah yeah, ah, and I want to give a quick, a
it meant that the loreen bible had stated. She says that they will never declare laura legally dead. She states that they have come to. conclusion that lore was in the wrong place at the wrong time. They still feel that he is still alive, but whether he is alive or dead. They want to know what happened and our hearts go out in do have a recommended reading for this week. Ah, yes, it's called the dreams of ada by robert mayor. This was recommended to me by a listener, and now I am recommending it to all of you. This is especially for fans of making a murder. The dreams of ada is is the true bewildering story of a young woman disappearance, the nightmare of us small town obsessed with delivering justice and the bizarre dream of a poor, uneducated man accused of murder,
John gresham says that this is a riveting, true story of a brutal, more murder in a small town in the tragic errors made in the pursuit of justice, so check out the dreams of ada by robert mare, and you can do that by going to true crime garage dot, com click on the recommended. Age and you will see a big stack of wonderful books to choose from by using our amazon. Thank you to everybody for joining us in the garage this week. Thank you for telling a friend and thank you for the five star reviews and check out are awesome. Sponsors can't thank you enough for listening, hope we your weak better. I know you made our weak better so until next week be good, be kind and don't the.
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Transcript generated on 2023-05-30.