Do you have valuable diamond jewelry or a luxury watch that you are wearing? Why not stood off and sell it with worthy turn. pieces into investments that will grow or use your new found cash for their vacation. home remodel, you ve been dreaming of or the is a selling partner, the uk trust to get you the most money possible for your jewelry risk, free now, for a limited time, you'll get an extra one hundred dollars when jewelry cells for over fifteen hundred, all you to do- is register at worthy dot com, slash garage, that's worthy dot com, slash garage, This episode is supported by progressive insurance customers save an average of over seven hundred and fifty dollars when they switch in save visit progressive dot com to get your car insurance quote

It takes about seven minutes. National annual average otto insurance savings by new customers surveyed in two thousand and nineteen potential savings will vary. I

the welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing. Thanks for listening, I'm your host nick and with me, as always, is a man who is still very proud of his summer stock. Here is the cat will. Thank you it's gonna, be seen and good to see. You thanks for listing thanks for town, a friend,

We are still sipping on some heavy boots of lead from the single cut beer smith. This is one of, if not the biggest, most complex beers from the good folks over a single cut, this Imperial stout is rich with mega chocolate, vanilla and coffee in stunningly smooth monster of a broom four out of five bottle caps and let's go. Some praise and thank you to our friends. It helped us out with this week's beer, fun filling up the old garage fridge, first up a cheers to jennifer and fort worth texas, a big we like to taylor and high roles, new mexico. Next captain, We have a out to jill in shepherd Montana and a big job to Alyssa and harrison ville Missouri next week, jennifer von in parts unknown, and we also have Brenna seeber.

parts unknown everybody we mention, they went our website. True, crammed ranch, dot com, helped us out with this week's beer funded for that, while we thank you by the way. The boy are you in IRAN. If you need more true crime garage for you, your balls go to true crammed grass dot com and click on off the record link sign up for off the record. The monthly subscription to stitch supreme. You get all such a premium shows its like the netflix podcast, and you get all that for five dollars a month, so check that out. colonel. That's enough of the bees are I thank you captain. Nobody gathered round grab a chair grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.

How andrew is often referred to by many authors and reporters as america's first mass murderer. He gun down thirteen individuals, killing thirteen people September six, nine teen forty, nine in the buildings businesses that surrounded his home that he shared with his mother during the months, leading up to his murder. Spree howard spent less and less time outside the house and became more and more suspicious of his neighbors who thought he strange and made fun of him. called him a mama's boy. He wrote about them in what he thought. They said him in his diary mark

some names, with the word retail r e t, a l short for retired, creation. Howard seem to be in the mental state that everybody is out against him and how everybody is wrong in him and he didn't nets we have hit list, but in his diary, he kind of had a hit list he's like making mental know as well as noted. His diary about all these individuals that either wronged him in some way and keep it. Some of these grievances are so my newt that almost like, I don't know that the person will know that they did something to affair him or upset him and so he is keeping tally. If you will of all these individuals the live near he and his mother, if they re armed him in any way than he's writing retail as in retaliate. You know, I'm gonna retaliate against this person. This enemy-

third way, is just a continued behaviour of what he was doing when he was in the army and off at world war. Two you know he was are committing a lot of things and his diary during that time as well, and it didn't just have to do with his kills or what his A wartime victim look like as it when he went up to look at the face of the man that he had just killed or take something from the soldiers uniform. This included things like what he was eating where they were. You know it wasn't uncommon for individuals to keep a diary or a journal of their time. At war, too bad howard didn't have instagram and rightly is back to their loved ones, but what was odd Was this behaviour of writing about his kills and ended? The people that he killed during his time in more when he returned It's from war is maintaining these diaries, but he's not killing anybody. At this time it almost looks

I keep thinking about killing some of these people in writing it in his journal in keeping track of these individual. that he believes have wrong in some form or fashion, but we all know somebody that doesn't think life worked out the way they wanted to, but instead of it being and their hands that it's the world is out to get them and those people? You could say something as a joker ingest in it and a few months later brain up how mad at you they are hard. And you like, but I didn't mean it that way as joking when this is personality trade, a character flaw if you will that we seen in other types of killers that we ve profile on the show ted kosinski, the unabomber it was said by, everybody that examined him and reviewed all of his manifesto in it activities in his life after,

was apprehended and they all said the same thing. This is a guy that couldn't let things go, he would hold grudges. This is again if you wronged him or you did something that he deemed to be wrong, he would hold it against. you for years decades, if not the rest of them, of your lives, and it seems like Howard unruh shared this or flaw with someone like that of TED Kosinski, now, captain often too when we were view these stories there are we situations that you just cannot make up. You can don't even off to know what to do with them at times, but there are so unique that you have to include them in your telling of the true crime story. and this is a bit of a bizarre situation that took place shortly, after howard, Unruh guns, down thirteen people and then flees back to his apartment. Remember

we left off yesterday. Talking about these standoff between he and the least that surrounded his home during the course that stand off. We had this oh yeah little news reporter the gets his great idea he had figured out. it was howard, unruh or believed that it was howard unruh who had gone through the street, It's an end of these businesses shooting and killing people, an I'm guessing that he got this from information off of the people on the streets, these eye witnesses that we talked about So he has this brilliant idea of you know what I'm gonna get the scoop. The inside scoop. I'm gonna get my name in the paper and I have a star. To tell and I'm to call the unruly household If I get howard on the phone the middle of the police, shoot out. So the report was a one, philip Buxton and he was

successful, and I will read portions of his article, not the entire article, but this is how Lord unruly wholesale killer was not to be key to answer the telephone today, while he was still shooting it out with police at his on river avenue now keep in mind back in the forties, back in nineteen forty nine, the news was everything and there were off and papers were released during the morning and then papers. It were released in the afternoon or evening and a lot of time. people would have subscriptions or purchase both the morning the evening news and so This is coming from the evening courier, which was the evening newspaper so because howard unruh went about his killing spree at the nine o'clock hour that morning, it was able to make into the evening news that's why our rapporteur is saying it was not too easy to answer the telephone today, while he was still shooting it out with police. Buxton goes

to say I was to hang up, so he found howard unruly phone number in the phone book called the home he's dialing its ringing its ringing and he's way. for how to pick up any says. I was about to hang up thinking my hunch head and a dud when I heard The receiver go up and the other of the line, hello, said a strong, clear voice. Is this howard? I asked yes said the voice. This is howard. Why the last name of the party. You want breathless strain my ears to catch the sound of shooting, but there was only silence. It, sir, as though the man at the other end of the line had clapped his hand. Oh were the receiver to shut out the sound. and the voice, as if stalling for time repeated. What's the last name of the man you want. Andrew, I said,

Who are you and what do you want? I'm a friend I want to know what they're doing to you. Well, they I haven't done anything to me yet, but I'm doing plan to them: responded, howard, many have you killed. I asked don't know yet. I have encountered, but it looks like a pretty good score, why are you killing people? I asked howard response. I don't know. I can't answer that. Yet I'm too busy I'll have to talk to you later. A couple of friends are coming to get me and with that last statement, howard hung up the phone during the middle of the police shoot out, he has occurred forsaken with the rapporteur in which asked why he's killing people he says I don't know yet Basically, I'm too busy to a figure that out at this point, got my hands full just as you would expect from Hell. Andrew, when the,

reporter says I've just wanting to know what they're doing to you, meaning the police, with the shoot out and everything that's going on cowards research is that of somebody that in some kind of unknown competition to everybody else where he says they haven't much to me yet, but it looks like I'm doing plenty to them. So Lord believes he's winning at this point and this bizarre competition that is adding after howard is apprehended. Of course he's going to be interviewed by police and by detectives and they all kind of say, the same thing here, captain that he appeared to be in this is based off of his appearance and his words in his statements to police that he appeared to be calm and sober, and there was bizarre to everybody that had witnessed this situation. He had killed so many people. It was very difficult to believe that he would be calm and sober

and we already said yesterday when we talked about some of the statements that howard andrew provided to police. Shortly after his arrest and in these interviews, one of em was his state of when I came home last night and found my gate had been taken. cited to shoot all of them. So I would get the right one. It seems to me like he had believed that possibly the cohen's or one of the coins had taken his gait to get back at him for any number of these disputes that they already had but italy by this statement, what we learn is that he might have pretty certain that it was one the cones installers gate, but he didn't for sure, and so he was going to shoot everybody, so he would get the right one, the one that had been long condemn the person they had in fact stolen his gait. To me it fills a coward snapped

and once it was all over, he was question what it was all for. Any de seem to me almost deflated unhealthy. He was necessarily maybe in the moment he seen alone. Cocky about everything but seem like afterwards. You like, I know I did something horrible and I'm gonna now suffer the consequences by spent in the rest of my life, jail well, he would ultimately apologize for killing the children that morning, but of the adults. He said that he deserved it, and that was statement that he kind of stock with now speaking of interviews. We talked about the reporter who the bright idea of calling howard unruly while he shooting it out with police? We had the opportunity earlier to speak with Alan green, who is the author of

murder in the neighborhood, which is a book about this massacre and, as you will hear it was, this interview along with her book. That was the inspiration for as covering this case as simply didn't know very much about this case. At the time of the interview hello, Ellen and thank you for joining us here on the show. Could you introduce yourself to the audience Yes, my name is Ellen J green. I am the author of a book that just came out on April. Ten The eighth titled murder in the neighborhood,

it is a nonfiction piece about the first mass shooting in the united states, what they call the first mass shooting in the united states that happened on september. Sixth, one thousand nine hundred and forty nine howard barton unruh was a twenty eight year old, wwii veteran that woke up one morning, He was quite angry at his neighbors and proceeded to walk down the block and shot thirteen people in twelve minutes. But this story is rather complicated because I'm looking at this howard under a person- and so he is seems like he snapped and then decided that he was gonna, go to take no prisoners, mode and gunning people down, but we say neighbours but howard was living on the second floor above or connected to it, store or pharmacy could. Could he kind of described that a little, because it sounds like a unique living situation yeah. It is.

a twin building that was on the corner of thirty second, a river rude and their workers store fry facing third facing, river road the pharmacy. The other was empty. There had been a number of businesses in their bid at this time. It was empty and Bob those stores were families and one family was the kohen family. The mother or father twelve year old boy and the grandmother and on the other side with a common will. all was how're anew and his mother. There is a lot of conflict between the andrews and the cohen's arm, and I had to you that there is a map in the book, the kind of shows, a lay out the neighbourhood and what the crux of the problem we had to do with the access to the back yard. The Cohen's had prohibited howard and his mother from using the gate thirty seconds street on until they had across this lot lot, it created a lot of conflict between them. What do you know

I'll howard's days, spent serving this great country and world or to so I did a lot of research and it was hard because a lot of those war records are gone, but I did come upon a memoir by somebody. There was in his unit. Ah he served in the battle of the bulge. You know he described his hospital records of having to shoot prisoners of war of having seen these these people there we're really children at the time german soldiers that were being killed. It affected him greatly. He talked a lot about that later. There is a third The when he started the rampage that morning he had a kill list of people that had been bothering him and he started out with the entire. and of justice, finding those people and killing them, but at some point, as very clear in the whole episode when he started to spiral that he just went into war mode, and he said he felt he was back in the military and he just started shooting random.

People including three children. Here I saw that we have victims is young, is six in two years old is incorrect. Yes, he was. walking down the street, and he there is an apartment building with a big window facing thirty second street. He saw movement in the window and was really agitated at that point and just shot through the window and hit the two year old in the head. Yet he shot one of sixteen. seventeen people killing twelve of them. Yes, there were three that were wounded, thirteen killed and he's twenty seven years old. At this time, yeah, twenty, eight and he's living with his mother. I found a newspaper article that described as a it, maybe I'm here fusing him with one of the victims. There was a pharmaceutical student involved in this, it looks like the cohen's were were druggist that they own the river road farmers

Could you tell us a little bit more about the the people? The casualties, yes, so the pharmacist was maurice cohen that owned and operated the pharmacy and lived upstairs and his wife rose cohen, the grandmother, many cohen, and then they had a twelve year old son. Charles when howard andrew, was at one time a pharmacy student at temple university, but he had dropped out at the time of the incident. He wasn't really doing much with his life. He was living with his mother. He wasn't working, he wasn't in school. He really did not like the currency were so much conflict between the families about this gate and about other things- and you know, do howard leader in his hospital records, talked about the fact that he was gay and that he was going philadelphia and he was seeking the company man, his mother was extremely religion didn't know anything about this.

kind of sand stand all the interviews that I did with the with people. There still are alive, they knew he was gay and they tormented him. It was illegal at that time to be gay, so they actively call him names, Nancy boy, queer, throw things at him and made it life very difficult. He particularly said that the cohen's were picking on hand that they were calling him mains. I was his primary target and he had actually purchased a machete at some time before this incident and when asked why detectives what he was gonna do. He said he had intended to decapitate from cringing at the pump

to getting an eye popping check at your favorite restaurant inflation is hitting us all where it hurts it's time to start using upside and earn cash back to get started download the free upside app and the app store or google play use. Promo code, true crime garage- five dollars or more cash back on your first purchase of ten dollars or more to claim an offer. For whatever you are buying on upside just check in at the business pay as usual, with a credit card or debit card and get paid you can earn through times more cash back with upside compared to credit card rewards or loyalty programmes. Cash any time to your bank account pay pal or an e gift card for amazon and other book Hence I love cash back and I'll. Tell you what I've used my upside app twice within the last twenty four hours, I'm looking at it now, six or seven local guy

stations to me where I can save up to fifty cents, a gallon we're all a lot these days for a lot of different things is time that you start earning more cash back with upside download. The free upside app and use promo code, true crime garage to get five dollars or more cash back on your first part of ten dollars or more that's. Five others are more cash back on your first purchase of ten, dollars or more using promo code. True crime garage as a true crime garage listener. You know the world can sometimes be a scary place, but no matter what happens out their home should be the safest place. There is simply safe, advanced whole home security. That puts you your home and your family's safety. First, Simply safe offers comprehensive protection, intruders, burglary and expensive home hazards like flooding and fires, with twenty four seven professional monitoring simply

agents take action? The moment a threat is detected despair. Police or first responders in an emergency if you're, not home or can't be reached, simply safe use proprietary, video verification technology, so that during agents can visually confirm the threat in order to get higher priority. Nine one one dispatch monitor Plans are affordable price one dollar a day with no long term contract or hidden fees. It's this purely system named best home security by u s news and world report a third, year in a row. You can custom is the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes. It simply safe dot com. Slash garage, go to and claim a free indoor security, camera plus twice three percent off with interactive. Monitoring. Again, that simply say dot com. Slash garage

now, a word from our sponsor better help. It's my favorite spot, sir? It's the one I use most often it's what has changed my life so dramatically mental is so important and something that we need to be discussing every day. You invest time you yourself and taking care of yourself. I've tried in many ways to make my mental health better and with, help online therapy is look it's the best thing I've done from mental health period our hope, is online therapy that offers a video phone or even live chat, only therapy sessions. So if you don't we to see anyone on camera you don't have to as much more affordable than in some therapy and is available worldwide, better help, will assess your needs and can match you with your own accredited therapists, an under forty eight hours

visit better help, dot com, slash garage and joined the over two million people. Like me, We have taken charge of their mental health with the help of experience professional, our listeners get ten percent of their first month that better help. dot com, slash garage, that's better h, e l, he dot com, slash garage! I love better help. You're gonna love better help. I know you will check out better health Dot com, slash garage today, So these people and I'm not trying to defend word at all. Here I want to be very clear about that. To the audience, because, certainly these actions are not warranted. all so these people are picking on him and teasing him after he risked his life.

serving the united states defending our country and our freedoms and the greatest world conflict in the history of of our. You know current time period it just it's time. It's it and I get it. I get it. It's one thousand nine hundred and forty nine, and it was a much different world and society back then, and, as you pointed out just now, it's even difficult to believe that at one time it was illegal to be homosexual, and so it's just it's one of these things. When you look at it through the lens of of current day. It's just up. It's a really been bizarre scenario: yeah and in in in the book it outlines all of the people in the neighborhood it kind of gives a glimpse of every what was happening with the people in the neighborhood arm. He had a very difficult time

You know they were teased him about not being able to use the gate that he and his mother had walked through this law. They were taught him They would call him names, they would throw things at him and they would jump in his way when he was walking. They would mock the way he he had an eye and a very erect posture and stir very straight, and they would imitate him and to the point that even coming out of his back door to try to get to the street, it would start it's a very congested neighborhood. The houses are all kind of connected. There isn't a lot space, so I don't think he had any way to escape any of that you're. Looking at pictures of this area- and it looks like people just kind of living on top of one another- that's how close they were and yeah a photo of howard here you described the way that he, the way that he stands is posture. The way that he walks in the picture, I'm sorry

here here he is standing exactly as you described an heap. He likeliest taller than the police officers that are surrounding him? This is after he is apprehended, but that just his posture probably makes him look taller or appear to be taller than than what he would be height wise now, a couple of weird things in in you know this case well, but before we get to the weird things, could you tell us a little bit more about your background? We know you are the author of this. This very intriguing- work. Can you give us a little more about your background ellen yeah? For the past twenty years, I have been a therapist in a maximum security, correctional facility, doing assessments for the court's doing therapy sessions with the inmates, also during that time I was writing. I have four books that I've written before this one. What are those titles? The very first book is a stand alone book called the book of jane

and then there's a trilogy twist of faith, absolution and silent redemption. I won't say none of this has anything to do with religion, even though they have religious needles, rancor suspense. So this Is your first true crime? Yes, how do you think? That's your background. How were you able to apply that your expertise on that level to your research junior writing, of did of of this book murder in the neighborhood. Well, you know it was very interesting because it was able to get hold of all his hospital records- and so I was able to go through and look at his testing and his I q and in his responses, during the sessions. Now it's different than seeing a person obviously face to face where you can ask them whenever you want you'd have to take whatever was asked in the answers you not getting any inflection or you know the body land,

with that. So that was kind of intriguing and I was working with a psychiatrist, DR peter brancato who's, a forensic psychiatrist who went through the records with me to try to help paint a portrait, a three dimensional picture. What this man was from? What we're seeing on the page and howard he lived and was, you know, obviously incarcerated, but he lived till two thousand and nine, so did you ask? Did you ever cross paths with him before any of your research, have you ve never been never met, hammering out this kind of upset, because I got the idea to write this book and he passed away and ask why didn't I do this? Ten years ago, when I could have gone up to actually interview have now? I never met him. I interviewed a ton of peace Well that did interview him now now, in your days at the maximum security facility, you have any If you want to share with us from from your time there, why

actually working on. Another book called the many faces of murder about just about the experiences of working with these murderers, seeing these people and then coming home, the I'm married, I have to two small children. When I started there they were really infants. Toddlers and trying to manage that and how I compartmentalized all of that, because it is very difficult to see a woman who brutally brutally killed her tripe and part of it, and then I would leave oh it's time to go clock out. I have to go home and pick up my son from day care. I dont know what I've done with all that. I think you find a way to put it in a separate compartment. Are the wisest take over your whole life yeah doing what I do? It's true crime, twenty four seven and I've had to figure out a way to, like you said, put that in its little box, but at the same time it does make me. I think, appreciate this.

all are moments more than I might have with not having this experience, and so it's it's a unique situation. You d wanna dance in the blood or stand in the doom and gloom for too long as it will cause it's it's a quick, DR too crazy town as they say, but damn near the funny thing is I was finished the book and I was looking for photographs and I had the original file from the philadelphia enquire, which had a lot of the crime scene, photos and I submitted them all to book a chore, saying, hey. I think these would be great and I think that I'm a little work from what I do they re like now. We can put those in their ellen their little graphic. so I I do think it's changed me a little bit my perspective, there's a couple of weird things that I noticed, and maybe you could clear them up and again we're looking at nineteen, forty nine. So things are completely different back then, but it appears to me that that, after the the

meetings that there was some kind of stand off that he he had maybe barricaded himself inside of I guess it was his home, his apartment, Yasser the last. Stop he shot the heck. He went into the hairy home and fired nobody got killed there. They were both wounded in the arm. He retreated right through his backyard, went into his house and and just stay there, you know whether he went to lay down whether he was side looking out the windows, but the police didn't quite know what was going on with a lot of confusion, and so all these police cars showed up, he had barricaded himself and they were firing at the building. So if you go and you walk down the street and you walk, you can still see the pack marks the bullets from the police fire It's amazing that he did not get killed in somebody asked me: do you think he wanted them to kill him? No, he did not. He put out awake

flag out the window and said I surrender and remarks Billy, they let him come down peacefully. There's pictures of him being arrested. I think in the book, at the back door and I'm taking him in there is no scaffolding. no nothing a lot of times these types after amassed. Shooting will commit suicide turn the gun on themselves. You don't think that that was part of his quota Plan now didn't seem to be part of his psyche. No, he don't even think it occurred to him. He felt like these people had bothered him. They stole the gate, which is a huge part of this story that he had put in this gate so that he can have access to the yard without going through this What somebody had ripped it out the night before, and that was the last straw, and he felt turns his last interview that these people deserve what they got and in it he had no were more

No thoughts are hurting himself. No suicide attempts in his whole entire life, there's not either any reports of depression, and he was quite matter of fact about it. Now, I'm sorry, I killed the children, he didn't know that he had killed the children when he started spiralling I'm sorry, I killed the children. But the people that deserved it deserved it. How long was it after the shooting that he's apprehended? We know that he barricades himself in it. and then he waves the white flag, but how much time, probably between half an hour and forty five minutes, and what's so bizarre here is you know you we're, except? thing to see you here. This story, Then you go and you want to look at a picture of of the situation and of the perpetrator. An omelette a picture of the perpetrator any expect to see this. The shovelled crazed, mad man.

right- and here we have this very clean cut. Well dressed. He's wearing a blazer in a bow tie. Yes, during the commission of these murders and and and as he's apprehended. Yes, he got dressed up for the event he put on his best brown suit, his white shirt, his bow tie, but he had his combat boots. He always wore his combat them. What type of gunnar was it? He used a nine millimeter luger and the funny part about the lugers. After his arrest, one of the police officers took at home. Never book did into evidence, and apparently nobody at the prosecutor's office looked for this weapon and it was found by the officers. Children after he died. Nineteen, ninety they were going through some things and found this luger and a bunch of evidence envelopes and he shall casings and they turned it all back. In unfortunately, I mean. Obviously this is a horrible tragedy and this is

probably something that could have been prevented. I don't know that the state of mind of this individual. I can't speak to that, but it sounds like he was. He was picked on quite a bit and he really felt that these people had wronged him. It looks very much to be a revenge type killing and if anybody that got in the way of or stood in the way of him carrying this out it's going to be collateral damage. Obviously, that officer knew that this, unfortunately a dark day history that we would like to do not have in the first place, but he knew that this was kind of a moment in history. I'm just surprised the prosecutor's office and they had all these murder indictments against him, even though he was not incarcerated not one day

they had the murderer. Indictments, I'm just a prize. They didn't notice. The weapon was missing. So where do they sent him after? He is convicted, so he went away was never convicted. He will never tried. He was never nothing. These all the murder and diamonds were drops. What happened was the district attorney at the time Mitchell Cohen made a decision to have him sent to a psychiatric hospital. Instead of to jam, they could have had a psycho just evaluate him while he was incarcerated, which is the usual process for whatever reason he bypass the usual system and send him right to the hospital for further evaluation. Think the reason for that was just the extent of the crime and think people just didn't do that they thought he must be insane so once he got to the psychiatric cost. It all. They were waiting for the psychiatrist to say that he was saying and could stand trial, so he was just being held a trend, psychiatric hospital

and he never got out. They just stay in nineteen eighty. They just dropped the murderer indictment against him. So Then he never stood trial in which the indictments were dropped and he was just held on a psychiatric commitment until he died now repeated a couple names there. We have some cohen's that were victims. We have the prosecutor of with the last named cohen. Is that just purely a code students. There was a coincidence, there's no relation whatsoever now, given your background in applying it to, but you ve learned of of this case and about howard in your research and speaking with other people, what would your evaluation be an end and we all know you ve? You did not speak with him face to face, so we have that hurdle to get over, but what would have your evaluation been of from what you ve been able to gather? You know. I wrestled with that, because.

He had relationships, he had relationships with his hairy, whereas Alan visited him till the day. He died on the letters between the two of them he did, exhibit any real symptoms of schizophrenia. Though he was diagnosed as schizophrenic. He didn't hear voices, he wasn't delusional. There was no break with reality Only thing he had was he was paranoid that he felt that people were intentionally trying to harm him or thinking bad things about him but given the snapshot of what was happening on that block when he was living there. Some of that was reality based. I don't know whether he was there a psychiatrist that looked at it. That said, he had a personality to order on just anti social, with some paranoid colouring to it. They were so thought on my part. Maybe he is on the spectrum that he might have heads

autism did. He was on the higher functioning autistic scale and that's why people were picking up that there is something off about him that he was a target of all of this So I'm not quite sure, he's certainly a really interesting case for people to look at, and I think people could look at it and everybody could come up with a different opinion. I think what's clear is he did not hit all the marks for classic schizophrenia and you're so right when we look at these cases from yesteryear, especially ones that are decades and decades old, it's very common place for society to just go all right. Only a crazy person would have done what he did so where's, your evaluation right there, that's enough proof for all of us to put him in the we been so to speak and in lock lock him up and throw away the key I think you're evaluation is very interesting and intriguing, and certainly a nineteen, forty nine. I dont think that we had a good understanding

if much understanding at all regarding things like ptsd and he very likely could have not likely It's it's even probably highly probable that he had some form of ptsd from his time in the war. Would you agree tarja? Absolutely and you know at the time there were no. There was a veterans affair administration, but there were no real treatment for these veterans that were coming back and you say that from what you found. It appears that he always wore his combat boots were poured in talking about him, and I found this film, a people that were interviewed in nineteen. Seventy nine and that is very helpful. All yes, they said he all wore his combat it? That would go very much along the lines of the paranoia that use. You spoke of its it's like it's he's waiting for

war or some kind of conflict to break out and he's making sure that he's ready at all times, twenty four seven with these boots on war, I don't I don't know why he wore them. I don't know if she felt more comfortable in them. He was waiting for combat whether he felt he was at war with everybody in the neighborhood, but it's pretty consistent that he wore them continuously and it's probably likely that he does himself didn't know He was wearing them all the time. It's a it's crazy story, it's a very tragic story, but at an intriguing one at that, and it does look like it. This is one of the first recorded american mash. Meetings. Yes, is there anything else that we should know about the book or about you or about howard on raw or anything else, before we wrap up here today. I no know, I think, is a complicated story, and I did the best that I could put it on the page to try to bring that neighbourhood to light

it consider writing it in a straight nonfiction documentary kind of style, and I played around Then I decided that I was going to do this in a more creative non fiction way, though it's all completely re. I spent two years doing research on this and interviewed hundreds of people. So it's all fact based. But I wanted you to read more like a novel, then maybe a different format. The true crime people are used to reading words. More just newspaper style fact of nonsense, based on the book is called murder in the neighborhood. The true story of america's first recorded mass shooting by Ellen J green. Thank you so much, mrs green for speaking with us today. Is there a website or anything that anybody would need to know too, to find this good, but yeah, Ellen, Jake, green dot com, isn't it well on amazon. Perfect. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much for having me

One of the privileges of part of true programme grudges. We get to talk to experts on these case Fascinating people who have great insights into these fascinating cases now, as we have already said here, captain Andrew killed thirteen people injured three, those killed their ages. Range from as young as two years old up to sixty eight years old. Now we do know that some of cohen, family, if not all of the kohen family was a target for howard and he killed three members of the kohen family doctor, Maurice J Cohen, aged thirty, nine, his mother, many cohen who was aged sixty three and the doctors, wife rose, co and age. Thirty eight hours barton unruly was in has been labelled as a skin

frederick spree killer and family annihilated now ass, explained yesterday, spree killers and serial killers fall into their own categories per the fbi and just general definitions we we've applied to those titles over the years and decades since howard unruly killed all these people, howard andrew so lately was a mass murderer and, while many have called him, the first in america, as you heard, therefrom, Ellen green, he most certainly was one of the first labelled this by many an author and reporter, but he was just one of the first. He actually wasn't the fur in america. Also is you heard they're from is green? The schizophrenic portion part is certainly up for debate and probably just wrong. We need to keep in mind. This is one thousand nine hundred and forty, nine and we're really looked at very differently back then than they are today, and this is

situation where he killed goes out. Kills thirteen people probably intended he'll upwards of twenty or so people, and when this reviewed by society. In that day, the person has to be crazy. There's no other explanation for it back then, and they have to give some kind of terms, and, as you heard, miss green. He certainly didn't hit all the markers for a typical schizophrenic individual, and so he is given this label and kept this label all of these years and in fact, that what that is what leads him to not being actually charged in these cases. You know he never has to go to court all of these people that he killed and sure he's arrested. He basically gives a very meticulous account and detailed hell of his actions. It's almost like reciting things. His diary from war

and so he is able to give a calm and sober, meticulous account of his actions. From earlier that day to police, two detectives to law enforcement, and so they sent him off to cooper hospital for treatment and to be evaluated eventually he's diagnosed be paranoid skits, a frantic by psychologists and he's deem to be insane, and so therefore he does not ever really spend any time in an actual prison and he doesn't have to go to court and face the actual charges. He goes off to the tribune the costs hospital. Where he remained there until his death, in two thousand and nine an he lived to be eighty a year old, passing away october, nineteenth,

thousand and nine at the trenton psychiatric hospital entrench new tears, you could pick anyway. To be, but you join us each week and that's why we love you. Thank you so much for the support we can do without you colonel. Do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful, beautiful, beautiful beautiful? Listen. Why? Yes, we do captain. Of course we heard true crime. Author ellen J, green here with us today, talking about her latest in greatest book murder in the neighborhood. The true story of america's first recorded mass shooting twenty eight year old, howard barton onrush, shot thirteen people in less than twelve minutes on his block in east camden, new jersey Ellen green uncovers. The chilling true story of howard unwrapped, the quiet oddball who meticulously plotted his revenge on the neighbour

who shunned him and became one of america's first mass killers check murder in the neighbourhood by Ellen J green. You can find that great title and many more we're on our recommended page at true crime garage dot com and when you're there make sure you sign up for our mailing list, we'll see you next week until then be good. because and don't dublin.