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The Colonial Parkway Murders /// Part 1 /// 226

2018-07-24 | 🔗

The Colonial Parkway Murders /// Part 1 /// 226

Part 1 of 2


The Colonial National Historic Parkway, Virginia - From 1986 to 1989, four young couples died at the hands of what the FBI long ago concluded was most likely a serial killer or killers. For years investigators actively and exhaustively worked the case, compiling a list of 150 possible suspects. But no one was ever arrested. This week we discuss the details of these unsolved cases and examine if the cases are in fact linked. Beer of the Week - Good Life by Billsburg BreweryGarage Grade - 4 bottle caps

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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The Welcome the true gram garage wherever you are, whatever you are doing things for listing, I'm your host nick and with me, as always, is a man that much like myself knows that judges and beers. Well, these are some of the fund are things in life. He is the cap. Of course he had a little beer, you add a little lubin aid now to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for Tom afresh.
Tonight. We are drinking good life by bills, bird brewery garage great, a big for bottle caps. This is an ip. A good life is juicy hobby and tropical slightly better like me, within a baby of seven point, three percent in today's fine selection was brought to us by first up. We have a long distance shares to lily up an awful in new zealand and a big shot out to the net until coffee, or also known as till it cut a next up. We have mona in saint Paul Minnesota, who says, cheers to talk o tuesdays and from this romeo we have a cheer said juliet and you'll ass, macular and california. Next, up cheers our boy, hot dog, all the way over and central, hong kong and, last but not least, a shot out to one of our many trucker friends, steve out of springfield ohio and a big we'd like zebra. All that truckers and all of you out there can stock the shelves for next week show by going to true crime, garage dot com and just click on that donor. But
like to get your be good behind teacher or if you would like to become a part of the horse, people gang good, a true gram, garage, dot, com and pre order your shirt today and that's enough, but the bee's knees. Thank you. Captain everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime our story. has a beautiful start to it because of the setting. This week's case takes place in historic, virginia on a cynic parkway an area treasured by all americans for its colonial history, natural beauty. This is a gorgeous Twenty three mile stretch of road the belongs to the national park service
a desirable. Dr linking the three points of virginia historic trying, jamestown williamsburg and yorktown A roadway shielded from commercial development, does not allow semi trucks. It is toll, free and has speed limits of just. thirty five to forty five miles per hour. It is, No popular tourist duties james river in york, river ends of the parkway and air that many have and will go out of their way to see and travel, but then starting in nineteen. Eighty six. There was great cod: to avoid this area, especially after dark, because during the course of four years, not one not too not even three, but for fruit and senseless double murders of young couples? Tear right? the colonial parkway region, and then one day just
Suddenly, as at all, had began. The killings stop now thirty years later. The event negation into virginia's, oldest cereal murder case continues, and the murder means at large. This is the case. loney, parkway murders and the Then I receive a lot of great emails over the past few weeks. Sending us high praise for some of our cases that we ve covered lee, Lee several people saying that.
early nineties, mid nineties, cold cases is the bread and butter of true crime garage, and I appreciate beer and butter everyone's saying that our case today, one that I'm very excited to cover this is a case that has always fascinated in intrigues me takes place in the mid too late. Eighty, so we will see if we can receive such high praise for this coverage of this case of what I would call a cold case, and there are some debate onto how cold this case in these cases, Actually arm will certainly get into that before we're through, but there's what's great about this there's been a lot of renewed interest in this case, and I think it's because the thirty year anniversary. We have four double homicides: the first it took place in nineteen eighty six, the second eighties. even than eighty eight and eighty nine, and so what seen the last few years is a renewed interest in each one of these cases and the colonial,
parkway murders as a whole and we will continue to see that this year and next year, as well now before we get into these cases that make up the romeo parkway murders. We need to get it little background on the parkway itself. standing the environment of the colonial parkway is crucial to the cases we are going to discuss, construct began on the colonial parkway in nineteen thirty, and it was completed in portions and would be a project that would take over twenty five years. The way was designed to follow the york in James rivers, which feed into the atlantic ocean on April, twenty seventh nineteen fifty seven, the cloning parkway open for traffic along the entire round between yorktown in jamestown. The scenic twentyth mile parkway connects three of the most historic spots in our great country. You town on the york river, where George Washington beat the redcoats, also williamsburg, which is virginia's colonial capital.
and james down on the James river, where the english settlers first founded com, These way back in sixteen o seven, it is part of the national park services, colonial national historic park, which is a ten thousand acre federal park. The parkway as wine and curvy with low overpasses, no commercial vehicles or structures are on the park. It is a three lane road. The centre lane is for passing, only tree shaded passage is punctuated with scenic pull off and picnic areas, and both tour in locals, enjoy these recreational areas during the day to read picnic exercise or just enjoy the virginia's historic culture dear and other wildlife, or often visible on the parkways fringes. But at night We have overhanging trees that cover the road, and this makes it extremely dark out there as it was done,
I've done one article. There are no street lights, no call boxes. No fast food, restaurants or convenience stores. where a driver might find refuge in case of a breakdown. So once it's dark, the pull off along the parkway attract a different crowd. Kids, go there to party lovers meet for a night time, tryst or who knows what else goes on thereafter. Dark lotta Suckin in the nineteen eighties. These areas had a reputation among authorities as being sites for hookups, illegal drugs and underage drinking at any given time. in the park to patrol ring yours are on duty. The rangers drive parkway until midnight, most nights and other nights all night long. How many park ringer too at night time it's patrol by to the separate park. Well, it's a twenty three miles stretch of road and
Other thing here, though, there is not a lot of access points to get on or off of this twenty three mile stretch, and what my thought is here is that you probably have you have two guys patrolling it throughout the night, but you probably have a dispatch, It's on on call as weller or manning the phones. Let's say right who, if there were a call. Could then dispatch a range to your location, I'll keep in mind There is no call boxes in this. Is the nineteen eighties we're not we're not calling people on cell phones if we break down yeah unless you're doc, brown and marty mcfly? Well. Technically the park itself closes at sunset, but the parkway obviously stays open to traffic overnight, and some of the picnic areas are closed in the winter months and some pull offs have a twenty
parking limit between the hours of six, a m in ten p m, but are actually closed after ten p m, so you're not supposed to beyond those things. After dark, the parkway falls under the rangers jurisdiction and because it is federal land owned by the NAFTA national parks service. So when a serious crime is committed, the york county shares department is called in with police from neighbouring locales assisting, but the fbi may also become involved in investigations, the most common offences in the park or relations of driving an liquor laws as one would expect to get you a better idea, the combined nineteen eighty, eight nineteen. Eighty nine statistics show that we're just over twenty four hundred traffic offences. Thirty drunken driving charges. Ninety two vehicle accidents where there was damaged to vehicles eleven with personal injuries, one fatality and five hidden runs. There also
to alcohol related accidents during the course of those two years an additional aspect of the park way that is intriguing surrounding it. Are the the cheatham annex naval base? and we also have the yorktown naval weapon station and also Your buys camp perry, which is a compound, by the defence department, where the cia operates secret training missions. Now, let's get to nineteen, eighty six captain so back and nineteen. Eighty six rebecca endorse key is twenty one years old from poughkeepsie new york and a senior at william and marry a prestigious liberal arts college located in williamsburg virginia. She transferred therefore, another school after two years and was majoring in business management. She went by. the nickname of Becky and was the youngest of five, she was We are letting excelling s
ball among other sports and had studied abroad in high school kathleen thomas aged twenty said and was from low massachusetts. Well happy ass. She was known had attended the united states naval academy in annapolis. She was actually one of the first women to graduate from the academy, in fact, Cathy, her brother, father worthy first father daughters on family to graduate from annapolis. That's cool Cathy, followed in the footsteps. her father who was a career naval officer, her family describe her as a trailblazer, obviously she's one of the first woman to graduate from the naval ketamine but they described as loving life and excelled at whatever she wanted to do after graduate she Cathy had served five years in the navy as a protocol officer at atlantic fleet headquarters in norfolk virginia she had
discharge from the navy earlier nineteen eighty six and was now working as a stockbroker at brokers. Securities incorporated this is in virginia beach. She was athletes and trained and martial arts thursday night toby, ninth, nineteen. Eighty six was the start of the five day columbus day holiday week in for the car, Joe william and mary Ann Cathy, was at the college visiting Becky as she did each thursday evening. What was not known to everyone at the school was the cathy and Becky were in a romantic relationship, had been dating for about six months. This was very Yet in the eighties and a lesbian couple, this is not generally considered socially acceptable. At this time, Becky was cathy second steady girlfriend and the two actually had been introduced by Cathy's axe now, but I think there are the hidden at the time was that I think there are dating at the time and
and that's how they met most of cathy's. Family knew about her sexuality and her relationship with Becky. In fact, Cathy's brothers and parents were expecting to meet Becky for the first time over thanksgiving Becky's family, however, did not know that she was a lesbian Becky was scheduled to return home to poughkeepsie for the holiday break. Her car was packed up and ready to go. She had told her parents did she planned to stop in visit friends on way home to new york city. I'm not arrive rise until sunday, Cathy was visiting becky at the college on that thursday night october night, her apartment as an hour's drive away. Becky and Cathy were see in the computer lab at william and mary. They left lab nine p m and left the campus at this time as well driving cathy's car, because the two were pretty much forced because of the time
aims to keep their relationship on the download. They often would take a drive. You know they would go off. Campus and somewhere that they could be alone. Now. Friends of theirs said that they would on occasion, find a secluded spot along the colonial power way on Saturday october, eleventh Becky's friends, whom she had intended to visit. On friday and saturday became alarmed when she never arrived, and so they called the police in Virginia maryland an pennsylvania. But nothing came of these calls. So these calls there really calling to report her as missing. But more so of an inquiry you know more about. Where is she call, then we know she is missing. Call I don't know whether anyone at Cathy's job reported that she did not show up for work on that friday. What we do now, is that neither woman was reported missing, then on sunday, over twelve nineteen. Eighty six, around five thirty p m.
A jogger was running on the banks of the york river along the colonial parkway near yorktown. This part of the park way on the grounds of the united states naval supply centre. It's just ten miles east of the william and Mary campus. This is federal property right this job your spotted cathy's nineteen, eighty white honda, civic in the bushes, the car was found, perched, eddie, Forty five degree angle front end down in the bramble ca burden, embankment between a pull off spot and the york river about thirty five feet from the road The junta wasn't visible from the road, but the jogger was running on the river embankment and could see areas where passing cars could not the jogger. Assuming that the honda. had been in an accident alerted the park rangers who patrol the parkway rescue
arrived and broke the rear, hatch back window of the car to gain access to the two people that they could see inside the car, hoping that we're still alive, so we have ranger showing up to the scene. They find this car in the bushes nose down practically One of the rangers for some reason believes that these individuals could still be alive. It's not reported which ranger decided to break the hatch. window right. It's a little bit unclear and that might be important later we'll get into that, but that will be of some significance regardless. The responders worked extremely hard to get into that car Sadly, what they found inside was gruesome not only where the two passengers inside dead, but they could tell me, neatly that they were looking at a double homicide park rangers called the local field office of the if b, I and waited for the feds to arrive a short time
The fbi, investigators, climbed down the embankment to the car once they saw the scene inside they photographed the cars location positioning and then they had a record toe the car back up to two. The pull off here. and near the road. There was some debate are. They should do this because it's going to disturb their crime scene, but the thought was that they thought by this point it had been disturbed enough and that they work going to be able to examine the car in the manner that they wanted to. So they had a kind of Well, the dice and say yep: let's have the tow truck, pull this thing up and out of the bushes, so we can look at it. Take a good look at it. So what evidence was found by the f b I Well, they found cathy's body crumpled in the hatch back section of the car becky's body was in the back seat with her legs, diagonally, pointing to the front seats with one foot wedge between the door and the front seat.
Both women were fully clothes and there was no immediate sign of any sexual assault. Investigators looked for drivers licences to try to identify the victims. Both becky in Cathy's persons were found under the seats but Cathy's wall. It was on the floor and out, of her purse. Both women's wallets contained money. A ring was still on Cathy's, and investigators noted that it did not look like they had been robbed. The bodies were taken to the state medical examiners office. The car was a mess with broken glass from the shattered back window. There were leaves in their blood inside the vehicle, but a strange thing. There was not enough blood according to investigators. There should have been more meaning. It didn't look, like the women had been killed inside the car run, they ve been killed elsewhere and then placed inside the car, but because they feel their throats were slit. Yes, they the fbi
shipped the honda to the fbi lab in washington, where was examined using the latest technology at the time according to bill Thomas. This is key these brother, who has become a victim's advocate in this case and, in my opinion, a one hundred percent expert. In this case he says the hardest, Riverside window was found in the rolled down position. I guess a up. Approximately two hundred and fifty partial finger prints were found inside the car. Unfortunately, though, the breaking of the hatch backs, rear window by rescuers, destroyed any fingerprints, the killer or killers could have laughed when closing the hatch on Cathy's. After placing cathy's body in that section of the car, so the driver side windows completely rolled down
According to the brother, according to her brother, there are other reports that the stated the window was up and and her ideas, the one that's found outside of her purse. That's a good question captain I have at my notes that Herbert her wallet was found on the floor outside of her purse. I do not know the the specifics regarding her eye
okay. So what it seems to me is that they pull over off the parkway and to a spot that we're going to call a lovers lane right, yeah and they're, going to do a little hanky, panky yeah and at some point what seems like is that somebody approach them doesn't look like there's any late wreckage to the vehicles they weren't hit. Doesn't look like anybody hit the car, so it seems very that whoever approached them was friendly at the time of the approach meant yeah. That makes any sense and then at some point the driver's side window gets rolled down. Ab was rolled down before the person approached them. Maybe it wasn't, but now we have these two, it's almost like they
got out their information to show somebody, I'm like a police officer or a park ranger or somebody pretending to be a law enforcement well, and that has always been one of the huge questions regarding this double homicide were the two ladies parked and then approached vehicle, or were they followed to that location now? Were they pulled over yeah? While the autopsy reports estimate the becky and care. Had likely been killed some time between nine thirty p m. On october ninth midnight on october, tenth so there that's a big window, and I think the other thing here that makes this tricky is the large window the time that they were last known to have been seen on the william and Mary campus to win
bodies are found on that sunday. I mean we're talking days later, so there is some question as to where was the actual last citing of these two individual, and one being that there was a a citing of two women at the york pub. This is an area that would be near. You know they would have went past the york pub to have from william and mary to where they were eventually found. The york pub would be a place that was more of a restaurant in a bar, but people go there to get something to eat, maybe a beer to while there there there was thought that, the last meal that they ate contain hamburger. and that would go along with having been at the york pub. However, of those states of those sightings. Those are kind of unconfirmed sightings of the two ladys So if we go by the coroner's estimation of as
Really is nine thirty p m keep in mind this area that they were found is about ten miles away from the camp is that they left around nine o clock. You know so this could have been a very shy. time period and, as you mentioned, they could have been pulled over by somebody that was following them or they park there you talk or whatever for a while in somebody approaches the vehicle, and there is a possibility of small possibility that they went out there to meet someday. We have no evidence of that, but there that is possibility so more evidence. Captain the medical examiner found the cathy and Becky's hands had been bound and they had both been set. Angled with nylon rope, their hands had been untied at some point in the rope had been taken away by the killer, since it was not fire found at the scene later, but rope burns had been left on the victims, wrist and net.
and later investigators would find a three inch piece of rope that was embedded in the back of cathy's neck, although women were strangled, their throats had been slit as well beyond the ear to ear cat. so severely that when our body was removed from the car law enforcement officers could see down. Her windpipe She was nearly decapitated now the website between Cathy's right hand. At the thumb in pointer, finger area was rip, and there was also bruising to this hand as if she had put up a bit of a struggle or been clawing at the rope around her neck. She had a clump of hair in her hand but otherwise the women showed few defensive wounds which both families. You know we gave it a fair description of both of these ladys, both being tough one. Having completed the navy academy both.
being athletic, both families found it extremely strange that the two didn't put up a bigger fight right, which makes you wonder, did meet somebody out there that they knew or did the person that approach em if it was put no law enforcement or some pretending to be a law enforcement to be a lot easier for this killer to control his victims. the want to learn a new language this year, razetta stone, makes it easy to get started and they'll create a learning plan for you that keeps you on track. Razetta stone has, the export and link Learning for thirty years, helping millions of people build the flu and see and confidence to speak new languages razetta stone offers. Ninety five languages, from spanish to chinese, to abolish with the region. Stone. App you can learn. anytime anywhere at home, while travelling or on your commute,
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there's no way around it there. There are things and I believe, clues within what had happened to these ladys and what was done by the perpetrator or perpetrators at this crime scene, the others not a pot asked about soccer right. So we have. We have some issues here. Captain because, like I said, the investigators were shocked at the brutality of this crime, they say that it was ass. A good example of overkill may be suggesting that it was somebody that new them and had hatred for one at least one of these victims, but both women were tied up, and this is a tricky thing, because this might indicate the possibility of two perpetrators and the families of both of these women have always wondered this, because they had wondered. Why I would the other sit there and weight as the single perpetrator tied up the other,
move and do something and I'm going to slit her throat right I get it, I get not moving. I get it love that person is not moving. I know I get that, but there's there's a likely that both hands on the perpetrator would be busy at some point and the thought that the thing that the families keep shouting out is how tough these two individuals were and their belief that they would fight now Cathy's car and the women's bodies. They had been doused in diesel fuel Now some earlier report state that it was kerosene in, and this was very tricky to try to decipher most report state diesel fuel some report. kerosene, I even heard an interview with one of the investigators that investigated this crime and he kind of flip flops back and forth during the course of this interview and even mentions diesel fuel? But he also mentions kerosene so
I was hoping to get some clarification from him regarding this, and I don't think we have that, like. I said most report state diesel fuel. So we will roll with that. Apparently, the perpetrator, the killer killers, had attempted to light the car on fire. Several matches were found at the top of the embankment the car had been put into neutral and push down the hill toward the river where it became lodged in the bushes diesel fuel apparently does not ignite burns hotter than gasoline does, but it has a much higher ignition point than gasoline does so. Whoever try delight this call. on fire either didn't know that or at the very least they were unsuccessful there. Are out the woods using matches trying to light this vehicle on fire. So the investigators
found it very puzzling that the murderer had access to diesel fuel, meaning that he must have brought it to the scene with him, because diesel fuel was not extremely common. It's not something that
you know regular motorists drive around within the trunk of their vehicle or in the bed of their truck, so disarm VON. This correctly, he he takes these two individuals out of the car ties them up, strangles them with the rope. Hmm, maybe they're dead, maybe they're not dead, maybe the maybe the suspect doesn't know if they are so then cuts their throat puts them back in the car. That's why there would be less blood in the car because they were cut outside of the vehicle correct, but back into the car, then doused in diesel fuel. It doesn't light because it doesn't. It has a higher lighting ignition point and pushes the car down. So almost like the fire. I couldn't get it to you know the evidence would be burned away,
fingerprints. All that stuff would be burned away, but now that it's not gonna be burned away, I'm going to push the car closer to the water well, and thank you for saying that, because the thing here is one thing I always wondered about this case so before getting into this whole thing here, just a touch upon something the yes, the detective surmise that the actual murders happen outside of the car for seven reasons, one there should have been more blood inside of the car and to a height of civic. Can't back is a very small car, so it would have been very difficult for these murders to take place. Inside of that small confined he's so moving onto the burning of the vehicle and then trying to push it down into the river, You know years ago, when I looked into this case, I'd always question their findings of the statement that the car was put into neutral lid on fire and then pushed down the embankment? I always thought that
Maybe there was a chance that the vehicle was pushed down. The invite it and when it got caught in the bushes, the killer then goes o crap. My it attempted concealing this vehicle by pushing it down into the river. Didn't work out I'm going to burn it, because the burning of the vehicle seem strange to me. We describe how dark this place would have been and we do know that it is being patrol, but it's not heavily patrolled right doesn't of fire just like call scream attention to your crime scene to the murders that actually the victims. Having said they're in the car. Having sat, therefore, the possibility of two three days or it might cause. Attention is gonna call the lot attention at night right, not so much a tent. During the day. The thing here is after having studied this further. I think that they were right and not necessarily just because the matches the matches that
tempted to have been used were found up by the roadway I they're right, because one thing I didn't know before was that the interior of the car, as well as the bodies of the two victims, had been dashed in the same fuel and that these I feel, and what I mean by that is. We saw how much the rangers struggled to get into the vehicle after was lodged in the bushes, the killer, what it had the same problem and therefore would have been extremely difficult for him to doubt. The female victims, as well as the interior of the vehicle with this diesel you're after having become a lodged in the bushes, so I think the detectives or spot on with their speculation of yes, these murders occurred outside of the vehicle. The victims were then placed inside the view oh the vehicle set on fire and then the attempt of pushing it down the embankment. What's weird too because it seems
like in the manner in which they were killed and then the manner in which some try to cover the sub seems very amateurish. Does in it's weird in a way they, like you, had mansion if, if you're tying up to people and you're alone, perpetrator and A way of controlling the victims and keeping them together is by threatening the lie, of one of them. Well then, that means you have some means of threatening that we know that a knife was brought to the scene because the throats were slit right and one could guess Maybe a gun was used because as you mentioned, maybe they a person of authority was approaching their vehicle that night or had hold them over this being a park ranger or a police officer, but as ever, investigator will explain once we're face to face
If I have a gun in you, don't I'm somebody of authority whether I have a badge or not, and so if in fact, this killer, we know that brought the knife. at some point: there they have diesel fuel there. They have rope there with them and possibly as well. I mean how many weapons this seems like a somebody out in the middle of the night and brings everything they can think of to bring with them to make sure hey almond hell somebody lighten, there's nothing. That's gonna. Stop me as a fisher price. My first murder kit. Well, the murders were so vicious that at the time the two gaiters. They had to assume that it was personal, so they started looking into every one in cathy and Becky's lives talking to their friends and families and in pursuing multiple leads, run now ex relationships. While initially the entire fifty agent norfolk fbi office worked. This case and park rangers
then stop drivers on the park way and ask them if they had seen anyone or anything that could be related to this investigation. The york river near the scene was dragged similar cases in other regions were searched for cathy's ex. Her name is joe lean, was thoroughly investigated and of this pan out. None it really lead anywhere there were so many unanswered questions and see was highly suspect for awhile, because she was seen with them on the last day that they were seen and that she also had a class with her ex. if they really kind of narrow in on her and try to try to shaker you know, and- and does nothing came up? Well, you know it was was interesting. Was I I read a bunch of interviews with Kathy's circle of friends, including acts that were conducted years and years later and one
that they all kind of pointed out was they believed that Joe lean was considered a suspect because one, as you stated that there seems to be it seems to be that this new. Relationship started right after old relationship had ended and what all of her friends would lie. Or say in these interviews is that they don't think that in the nineteen eighties, that the FBI really understood has been relationship and that they couldn't kind arap their heads. update and therefore they they re honed in on this job lean person where all of the cap friends, all long had always said there was nothing there that that relationship was over and in in what was even
more interesting was that Joe lean had introduce cathy to Becky the abbots it s where the stories criss cross, as some people say that after the relationship ended as when she said, hey, you might like cathy and then the other side of the story is that during why their dating as when she met Cathy and so is almost eighty I took her away, and so I just think it's disarm rumors. Well, no! I'm going off of the people that knew the three of these. The most right, I'm just saying for years, that was one of the rumors, was that it had to be the axe because she took her away from her yeah well like I said so many unanswered questions in this. The things it here's some things that I try to wrap my head around when talking about this one
This is a long drawn out double killing. So how did the suspect have time to do this? This is outside of the car in a public spot and seemingly without the fear of detection. Today one question and then, if he had planned to burn the car, why did he were the bindings holding the girls you know in in he cut the rope from Cathy's neck, but he left a three inch peace this was one question I had gone into it. I think some of the research I did explained that answer to me once While we get some answers. The investigator the investigators pointed out that it's his opinion that the three inch piece of rope was left there on accident. Did the killer had slipped the throat while the neck was still taught right, so that may some clarification there, and then you also have to wondered. Was there a chance? The the killer killed them
where else entirely and then drove the key with the bodies in the back of the car to the abandon to abandon it along the parkway, this very possible as well. The other strange thing here added the tough thing here is because its outside, because it's in no there's a grassy area and stuff and so many days later, do we find the vehicle and the bodies that evidence? Could you know if it rains? You know a lot of the evidence can leave the scene what's the motive. I think this is another reason why they look at the inner circles, because what's a motive, there was no robbery and there was no sexual assault outlets. forward in our time line to almost a year later, we have David, no bling is twenty years old and lives in hampton virginia Davis. Family say he is one who would do anything to help out his friends and family? He will. He is plain and simple: just a nice guy
he and rob- and robin is only fourteen years old- they had earlier. That day, this saturday September nineteenth nineteen, eighty seven and just put this out there. I've seen this case covered by several things and, and nobody ever points out that that's Little odd. We have twenty year old hanging out with a fourteen year old. I know it's and eightys boat. The times were not that much different. I find it a little strange. They met when a group of friends, including David's brother, Michael and their younger cousin, went to and arcade in newport robin Like all our boys, she was small and even wise for her young age. She was solved in peer counselling and David had just learn that his girlfriend at the time was pregnant. There's some talk if it was his ex girlfriend oars current girlfriend, but the two of them spent some time that evening talking later David drove home. He drove the whole group home ass.
Dropping robin off at her house. Around eleven p m David in his brother went home. They ordered pizza and they watch tv we don't know for sure what transpired lean david and robin during that short time that they had met but later two, and both families guest at the two had planned to meet up so rob took off to meet him David left, his fame home around midnight not telling Michael, where he was going David was known to drive out to a place called ragged island. This is a ragged island wildlife refuge in his black ford, pickup Ragged island was a secluded marshy wildlife refuge, which was known as eighteen hang out and a party spot robin and its families notice that they missing the next day and apparently they must have had some kind of discussion between the two families because after they peace this together, the families decided that the two must have gone
off together robin had run away before Apparently her mother worked nights, so I dont know if she was waiting for her mother to leave for work, and then she was free to leave. The house and go do whenever she wanted to do hang out with with the David or whatever. You know, but both families acknowledge that possibly could have quote hooked up despite the age difference early Monday morning, a sheriffs deputy, spotted David's ford, ranger pick up in the parking lot at the wildlife refuge at the southern foot of the James river bridge. This is not a location on the colonial parkway, but this is the opposite side of the James river. Now the driver side door was open. The keys in the ignition the engine was not running, but the wipers were still on in the trucks. Radio was blaring some sources,
kate, that the driver side window was partially open. The deputy saw close strewn about the camp of the truck with turned out to be robin and David's underwear. In some shoes they also on a wall it on the dashboard. Despite this ominous seen, though, the depth figured. The driver had just stepped away and he turned the ignition to off robins family reported her absence later that day in the connection was made to the truck that had been found on ragged island, which was total a by county officials, family numbers noted that robins purse was not found in the truck. Organise searches began with both Officials and family members, searching in two days of heavy rain David's family, as they knew as soon as the truck was found, that something was terribly wrong. His truck was his pride and and he would never have left it with the key still in it, for anyone to steal. There was some thought that
truck had been driven by somebody else. For one thing, David always parked the truck in reverse, so it was facing out of the parking spot. The truck was knows in and david in, his brother had rigged the truck so that the keys did not too need to be in the ignition, and to have the radio on, but in this case the right It was on in the keys, were found in the ignition made so, two days later on september, twenty second david step father, he was sir hang on ragged islands shores a mile into the reserve for any sign of his step son, when a near by jogger name louis ford, spotted what he thought was just a pile of clothes. Instead, it turned out to be the body of robin edwards who had been shot in the back of the head. Several ports say her genes were undone in her brow was pushed up, although it wasn't clear if this was done by water. The killer, or
whether? Whatever might you know, maybe could have been interrupted during the state of some kind of state of undress yeah. Maybe a state of pre coitus soon afterwards, Carl found David shortly a few dozen odds away at the base of an embankment David had also been shot once in the shoulder, and once in the back of the head, the calibre of god, used has never been released to the public, although I did hear an investigator many years later, going off of memory. Saying it might have been a thirty eight investigators, guess that David tried to make a run for toward the woods and had been down with these shoulder shot and then executed. It looked to authority as though the young pair had died between twelve The m in five. Thirty am on sunday morning, a group of teens who had been partying at the parking lot. hold police that when they left at two, a m David's truck was not there,
yet now we know from reports, come out years later, that its believe that robin had had sex before she died, but in those days dna testing was not available to determine who she had sex with what was strange was that David and Robin were found about a mile from the truck you know. So did they walk the mile in the pitch? lack in the middle of the night, to the rivers edge or some one possibly driven them to within hundred yards of the shore. Where, the pull over shoot them then drive the truck back to where was later found. Yeah well go into detail detail this again, so the one some aid comes upon them they're in the truck they get them out of the truck. Take em about a mile away, kill them leave the scene yeah. There is also the possibility that they're out of that
iraq for whatever reason we may be, the truck wasn't in that spot trucks in a different location, maybe they're not that far away from the truck but they're outside of the truck, for whatever reason this murderer comes up on him kills him there. The murderer moves the truck. Right right, so that would be option two yep and then the other option is what you said, as that the murderer took them out a mile in the truck, killed them and then moved the truck possibility. Yeah yeah the thing here, though, that the families have question regarding them being outside of the truck the one being that the families both seemed to think that the two of them would have went there for one of two reasons: either the party you know to do to do drugs and drink or to hook up or above
and what the families have often said regarding this is given the weather that night and given how cold it was that evening. It had rained quite a bit that day as well. Both families believe that whatever they went there to do this if it was one of those two reasons are both did they would have done that inside the truck sir. we have a situation where it seems like the family believes that if they were approach by somebody, they were probably sitting in the truck. When approach was so strange to me at the door was found open yeah so strange. Well, you know what I actually think went down, and I and I don't I'm not gonna, say on board and to know where they were killed or or how they were approached by their eventual killer. But I think what took place is this. I actually think they were killed elsewhere out,
away from the truck and away from where they were eventually found. I think that whoever shot them killed them and then attempted to dump, thereby he's in the river where they were later washed ashore, and I think that the killer after having dumped the bodies left the truck with the keys in it, parking lot with the door open in the radio on as a away too may be enticed somebody to steal. The truck could you imagine if you are out in the middle of this wildlife refuge and you shoot two people you're able to successfully place their body in the river which the water takes them away, and then you placed their trust in a place where get stolen and then maybe moved even states away. You're likelier not gonna, get caught for that double mr soulier. What, but I dont think that this killer is that sophisticated
when robin and David were found. No one connected the case too. The murders of cathy and becky for one thing, David, robin, were not found along the parkway ragged island is nearly thirty miles south of the parkway and m owes were not the same in the manner of death was completely different. We have strong relation in the throat slitting in the first one and then gunshots in the second. The shit investigating, along with the state police, stated that they had to suspects in this particular case but were having difficulty gathering evidence to bring them the justice, we do know that the sheriff had a theory, a man named sammy reader may have been involved. Apparently here. failed, a polygraph anne, had admitted to taking money from David's wallet that was found inside of his truck.
The thing here is sammy reader- would give multiple stories to the sheriffs department regarding what went down that evening. In one story he states that he saw the to exit the truck and they walked down to the beach and that's when he approached the truck and kind of went through. It does but he defied while they were away in another story. He says that they went off into the bushes and same thing occurred. He went into the truck to see what he could find and took money from the wall. So so we know he's a thief and when he's a liar well and by his own accord he was inside the vehicle. At some point, you wonder, is he the person that left the door open
Well, if you need to explain away fingerprints, you just did if you can convince law enforcement, that you didn't kill these two, but just in fact stole money from them, given the opportunity. Yes, so you're, there liar you're a thief and you are born in the barn, while the third storey And forgive me captain because I don't know the order in which these stories were delivered. I do know that there were three different stories given to police during the course of questioning, and they all very slightly while one of the stories as that there were other people in this area hanging out partying, I dont know. If these were. I imagine it would people similar and age to robin and to David. You know, teens early twenties hanging out in part The problem with that, though, is investigators sought that angle and couldn't find anybody else that would admit to having
in the area that night, so the first murders take place and nineteen eighty six, the second, the double homicide. The second double homicide happens in eighty cents. but now that's thirty, some miles away from the parkway but now we have another murder and eighty eight keith, sandy hayley were on the first day on cept. He's gone sandy hayley we're on the first day on Saturday April, ninth nineteen, eighty eight. They both were students at christopher who port university in newport news where they were classmates sandy, as an eighteen year, old freshman who modeled and taught high school gymnastics as she entered college keith was twenty years
old in his friends and family. Describe him as a quote: computer geek, and a time way before computers were popular. While he was gone to school for computer science, something you know a lot about. Keith had borrowed a shirt from his brother that day, so he could look good for his day I guess, I attended a party at the university square apartments, although they had old, sandy's mom, that they were going to go to a movie of course. Well there you know: that's typical teenager crap, right. Twenty and eighty nine, I you go and you have a few drinks and you tell her body else. You go into the movies and we're going to the library both sandy and Keith were seen at the party they were seen talking to other people, though, and it it actually didn't. Look like date was going well to other people that seem to be getting along, but they, really didn't seem to be.
me: romantic spark law right, but he's a computer geek, so he might have some social flaws. I think that they were both of them actually were out of recent relationships, and I think both of them at some point had told people at the party that you know keep keats a nice guy, but I kind of miss so and so- and I think you know keep probably said the same thing. You know sandy's really nice girl supercool, but you know rather kind of be back in my relationship yeah. I went on a day like this one time we went to a coffee shop in we just got coffee, we decided walked down the main street of eyes, the campus and after two hours talking, my axe and her talking about her ex. It was like ok, while this is, moreover, possession than it was at the right right and in this
doesn't look like anything. Bad was going on. Just like I said. No romantic spark seem to be happening. It seemed like the two of them were more interested in hanging out separately at this party and talking to their different clicks, are their different friends there. So friends say that the two left, the party before too I am, and this roughly about one thirty year because well sandy lived at home and her if he was two a m, so they would have left there with enough time to get her home to meet her curfew, and this is pretty late when you consider the time frame, you know been? Eighty eight on sunday morning around, seventy m Keith father was driving to work and saw his son's red nineteen. Eighty two Toyota celica parked at the small york river, warlock along the colonial parkway, the vehicle was unoccupied. This was between
one in three miles from the location of cathy and Becky, the first victims there were found eighteen months earlier so is father stopped looked inside, nothing seemed to be, place. He shouted several times for his son, but you know no keith, so he decided to Caen you along his way he was driving to work. At nine a m a park, ranger reported the vehicle as abandon a rank rangers waited until monday to call the fbi who had jurisdiction because of the parkways federal designation. The car was impounded by then sandy and Keith had been repealed the missing okay, so I know that seems a little confusing but bay Finally, what we have is these two individuals leave the party dave we're not spotted all of the next day, their unheard from first, his father finds the vehicle.
Abandon then later the rangers reported as abandon they have in pounded, but at some point authorities are going to make the connection between this abandoned vehicle, and then the two that had been reported missing so rangers reported that when they found this The drivers door was open, the windows were down and Keith car keys were in the ignition. Some reports say that the keys were on the seat, but most in the ignition. Why? This is so strange to because a father finds it before the park rangers, find it and he doesn't shut the door or maybe does shut the door
and then it's opened by somebody else later and you're getting into an area. That's that's very interesting regarding this case, because the description that Keith's father gives of the vehicle is vastly different than the description that the rangers give, and this is one of those sad moments in a case that in it's not realized until many many years later. So myself was in this group as well, but but mainly keats. father is the one that I want to talk about here. When Keith's father found the car, he said that the way that the thing looked to him was that the two had went there parked and were hanging out and just had gotten out of the car at some point and went off somewhere and when he shouted and called for his son's name and his son never showed up. He just assume that the two were off but say having a good time again and he had
work decided to continue on when he found the vehicle. Like I said it was described completely deaf. The way that the rangers with later describe it and the thought that they had been shared by key family and the general public for many many years was the holy crap did. Did his father stumble stumble upon this vehicle and then at some point the killer returned. To return items belonging to the two to the vehicle, because when he on the vehicle, it seemed to be practically empty and I can't remember He saw the keys or not. I think he did see the keys, but Apparently there were no clothing. There was no clothing found in the car. He didn't see any or claims he didn't see any. When the park rangers come to find it, they find a lot of clothing almost all of each person's clothing. Well, we would learn the truth of that.
and what I mean by this is like I said for many many years, a lot of people. Leave there was a chance. The killer had returned to the vehicle in that shortly, no of time between when keats father had found it and then later the rangers find it why we would learn the the rangers with later come out and admit to this, and this is quite embarrassing on therein what had happened was they had found the vehicle before Keith's father made it to the car right? They collected items that were found inside the vehicle and took them with them later, sure they realise that this car was not just abandon. It was connected to these missing persons, so what they ended up doing is the put in the items back they put him back in and and returned the vehicle to how going off a memory as to how they had originally found it yeah awkward. Well,
The sad thing here is: keats father. You know this information didn't come out so many many years later, and I don't have it here on. My notes gave them, but I believe it wasn't until two thousand and six in our two thousand and nine, so we're talking eighteen, maybe twenty years later, the disinformation comes out and keys, father passed way never having known the truth and never understanding why he found the vehicle in one state and shortly after the rangers claim that it was in a different state. So, but if so, when do you find this and they know that these individuals are missing, they start searching right and then they once I can't find these individuals. They start thinking that They they might be in the water cracked. Here there was a thought, and I can you hear the the tone that I change to their the the
running theory that the rangers had was that the two decided to take off their clothes leave the clothes in the vehicle and then go down to the water to go skinny dipping yeah his will we're on a bad day. That's something you do that you Where that leads hey you wanna see. My megan berries and go for an dip sure, well, there's a lot of problems. They're in, and we got too much to cover for me to go through all of the issues with that. But let's talk about what was found in the vehicle. Ok, so we said that the keys found in the ignition or on the seat. Now we also have keats wallet that was found in the back seat with twelve dollars. Inside of it and a watch an eye glasses were on the dashboard. All of key clothing and shoes, were found scattered inside of the car, most of sandy's clothing and cool
one shoe and her bra were found inside the car sandy's purse was in the car, but her wall it was missing to empty beer. Cans were in the back. Some reports indicate Le box was open. The clothes in the car led rangers to believe that, for some reason the couple had decided to go. Skinny dipping. Ok, let's touch on this jest second never mind that it's too. I am the temperature that- in April was was forty some degrees who go swimming in polar bear, club right, shrink, and the overlook was up huh on the embankment okay. So here's the problem that the family had initially with this theory, they said, look it's too cold and, second of all, it doesn't make any sense that the two
stripped down to nothing and then walk over half a mile down the road to go skinny dipping in the middle of the night. So, furthermore it is sandy naked, except for one shoe. You know I mean, as she walking down the street and one shoe half a mile to get to this location. This theme by the rangers was was about and in fairly quickly once the fbi stepped in and once the family has in the they have b. I shows up and goes. This is what you came up with guys. This is what she came up with and you know that the two rangers that are on duty- they failed fbi test. You know that rights. I wanted to be beyond because the fbi the cia is right around the corner training, their training facilities,
around the corner, and these flung he's come across a vehicle they take stuff out of it. They have to put it back in based off memory, and then they come up with these goofy ideas. You know that that be, I was given them shit about it well, the the the funny thing here is like so the rangers come out with this theory and they kind of announce it publicly right away and at the end, We would learn that that's kind of why they compensated the item they had originally found. They thought that the two had just walked away from the vehicle. The families publicly said. Look. This story makes no sense. This thing it makes no sense, we're all for theories and trying to figure out what happened to our loved ones, but this story makes no sense. This is not a great theory one. If you'd thought they went skinny dipping. Why would you steal their clothes, so they then, when they come back to the car, that they have to drive naked well and then then, the f b, I finally steps in and the f b, I says: look
We discredited this theory through things we found in the investigation and by using common sense, ethnic Let us, therefore, that was their statement that they gave so and look we're knocking these park raindrops but hey we, we ve talked to several park rangers. They have brilliant brains, the undue saying that these these once did not yeah and who knows? Who knows what's going on in this situation, but the feds did set up a makeshift headquarters and they were assigned to follow up on all leads now. A tides expert indicated two investigators that if the bodies had been thrown into the york river. It would take at least three days for them to surface. This is based off of the depth of the river. Now, on thursday, one of the search box radioed that it had found a body in the river, but the body was of a middle age
african american man, it turns out that this man had fell off of a boat a few days. My notes say a few days earlier, but I believe that they think that this man could have been in the river for as long as a week or two yeah. I believe so. Despite multiple searches using scent dogs nats to drag the york river and helicopters, the bodies of Keith and sandy have never been found, they are presumed, however, to be dead. Now I do want to bring this up, because one thing that I think really hindered this investigation when they brought in these sent dogs. Now these were cadaver dogs. They were hitting on the water indicating that they were hitting that a body was in the water we ve seen this before. In other cases. Well, the dogs were right I mean. Eventually a body was found in the river it just wasn't. You know the dogs aren't able to tell you look
is a body in the river. It's just not the one you're looking for for the first time after their disappearance, people began to wonder if this could be related to what happened to the others. The possibility of actions among the cases was raised in the media for the first time, an April nineteen, eighty eight and may the fbi offered a ten thousand dollar reward for information on the nineteen. Eighty six, cathy and Becky case speed agent erwin wells acknowledged to the press the possibility that a serial killer was at work, but caution that quote nothing other than speculation and geography linked the cases. The families wondered how did Keith and sandy and up so far from the party and from their homes. The parkway was totally out of their way. It was not necessary for them to travel on. The parkway was possible
this sum martyr picked them up anywhere. Yes at you, I mean and then see them at the party goes hey. There's too, What people leaving together, I'm gonna, take them over takes both of them over martyrs them takes keith vehicle and and parks it well that's and make it look like they were approached at the parkway, because, if you're the parkway serial killer than you know, finding his truck somewhere else leave doesn't with your em out. Well, in you bring up something interesting there. So if, in fact, the parkway murders are all connected, my thought, is if, if we're going to include this double homicide of key and sandy along in this and say there all linked. Then the you here is there. These two would not have been on the parkway I could
line, any reason to suggest that they would have been on the parkway other then, let's say thing: is suddenly we're going well on the date they decided they wanted a park somewhere. This doesn't really make any sense, though, when we were view what was going on that night. We know that she had a limited amount of time to get home for curfew. They left the party with basically just enough time to get her home for curfew. They would not have travelled the colonial parkway too turn sandy to her home and, furthermore, both of them told sir all people at the party when they were getting ready to leave, I'm taking sandy hope, oh he's, taking me home it. It almost seems like something happened to the two of them after they If the party and between the party insanities home something happened to them. My
be. They were killed elsewhere and then the vehicle, as you said, taken to the parkway. Maybe this indicates that the parkway is more important to the killer, then actual victim bright and you wonder so, and eighty six we have a lesbian couple, they're murdered outside the vehicle put back in the vehicle they're found eighty seven. We have a heterosexual couple for dinner, while they're not a couple, but they didn't didn't really know each other, but possibly lovers. Lane type thing they're murdered roughly about my own half away from the vehicle there found. Now we have another heterosexual couple. We don't even think that there are dry in on the parkway. Somehow this vehicle is found We don't have any bodies found near not really a couple and the other thing to back up the statement that the two not have been on the colonial parkway. They both of these
visuals had been rumoured that at times in their life, they had told family and friends in in recent times to these murders are disappearance anyway, that, They wouldn't go to the parkway, now keep em. Then there was a murder that took place in nineteen. Eighty six, a double homicide on their sandy had told her sister. and other family members. She didn't like to try on the parkway would never drive on the parkway. It seems like a strange place for them to go willing You know what I mean right if they were going to park and hang out for a little bit. The other issue here is that we have two individuals, because this one feels a little different, but it's like. We have two individuals that are just got out of relationships right, so sandy's boyfriend, sandy's ex ex boyfriend, might not know that she's having a not a horrible time. She says she misses him right right. They go to this party for all. We know that there are
has nothing to do with the park way and whoever killed them says. Well, if I put the truck out there, they'll start trying to connect that to these other double homicides. Well, the interesting thing here, captain in the sad thing here, the two of them to this very day have never been found. Make sure you check out true prime garage dot com go to the store page where you can. order. Your pre sail for horse people, shirts and the bees good, be kind and don't litter shirts, and on that no until tomorrow, be,
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Transcript generated on 2023-02-05.