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The Devil Did It /// Part 2 /// 127

2017-07-26 | 🔗

The Devil Did It /// Part 2 /// 127

Part 2 of 2


On March 4, 1998 Father Alfred Kunz was found dead in Saint Michael's Catholic Church, in Dane Wisconsin. Father Kunz was the victim of a homicide. He was found in a pool of his own blood. His throat had been cut. The body was discovered by a teacher arriving at the school. All of the doors were locked and there was no sign of forced entry. There have been many suspects and theories over the years. One of the most popular theories is Kunz was killed by satanists. Today we discuss this cold case and take a look at the theories and some suspects.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
My name is jason alexander. The star bedtime stories of the angle side in a brand new scripted comedy podcasting, which I play palm springs. Hotelier mel haber through in the nineteen seventies, turn the run down anxiety and into the best kept secret, get away for hollywood's elite. The series also stars Brian Jordan, Alvarez Michael, the keen richard kind, lance basque, and what you can find bedtime stories of the angels. I didn't on serious exam, pandora stitched or wherever you get your forecast, don't forget to follow the jobs. Are you never misses episode the agency comex, two part casts connect the alarm Jane. the part cast. You stream connect this news, ten more minutes to dream, connect a shower lather up with the news sports talk, comedians or movie reviews connect with that three our philosophy, show change the drive into work and trade. so slow, connected dishes, two voices, they glow thing, you too, the geniuses of spoken audio,
and make the stories change respected, connecting changes, everything agency. I the Welcome to true gram garage wherever you are whatever you are doing, thanks for listening, I'm your hosts, nick and with me is always a man.
because native son, ladies and gentlemen, the pride of Columbus? He is the captain. Thank you. You think you they ve been trying to evict me for years, but I ain't going nowhere be seen and good to see you Today we are drinking cross of gold by revolution. Brewing company in chicago illinois garage great four out of five bottle caps. This is a lighter beer, a crisp golden ale with a delicate, hop finnish. They breathe with a little bit of wheat and there's a tiny hint of honey process. It was the two thousand and twelve world beer cup gold medal winner and golden let's go out to everybody! That shift in for this week's round of beers. First up a big thank you to peggy an arena wisconsin a big sounds curricula and hamden kinetic next, we have leslie from past in who says: try blue moon cappuccino. We also
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So we went from blue moon to blue earth. There can, while you've always been known as an astronaut. Next we say hi and thank you to chelsea from durham north carolina. She says she loved the show talk told us to be easy. I don't know what that means. Just take it easy captain. Now we're not going to be easy and lab memorials here. Okay, it's going to take a little more than beer fund money to give them these pants and last but not least, we have Brennan from Puyallup washington than that. That's how he told me how to say it, I'm I'm the captain. I am from leveling up yeah, that's where we're both from after about five beers, but thanks to everybody for donating to the beer fun if you'd like to do so, go to true crime, garage dot, com and click on the donate button yeah and for any garage, merchandise or old episodes. That's where you're going to find it at true crime garage dot com. Also, we've got the blog there. So, if you're interested in having some more in depth conversations we'd like to do so through the blog.
Also, all social media, facebook stab track twitter instagram. All that stuff. You can find us at true crime, garage aright, that's enough of the business everybody gather round grab at share grab a beer. Let stocks, True crime. the murder of father, Alfred coon's. He was killed in his church back in nineteen. Ninety eight. There have been some argument recently captain if this is a cold case or if it's a case that there still plenty
if leads are depending on which investigator or journalists you talk to you're, going to get both sides of the argument that it's either a cold case or there's there's plenty of fuel they're keeping this investigation going while happened. I cannot listen to the journalists, I'm going to listen to the detective and the detective said at least I think this last year within the last year he said it's not cold at because it's not sitting on some shelf somewhere they're still a unit then is assigned to this investigation right in it but but I did say depending on which investigator detective you speak with, because there have been some detectives along the way. That said, you know what I don't think that wherever going to see this thing solved, I dont think we're ever going to see a conviction hear about your right as more recently that there seems to be some detectives involved. I believe that we could see this thing work itself out.
They might be waiting for a little luck. They might be waiting for the right clue or possibly you know a confession. Sometimes these confessions can happen as the years go by our it. So where were at before was the theories, The first theory primarily was was this some kind of satanic killing and again my theories on that. I too, for me: I think they would be the leave some signature now his and that was a priest was his name fiori or Martin. Martin Martin is the one that brought up the fact that, while others, possibly some satanic colt within the two, and I think if he was killed by one of them to shut him up for what he was saying on his radio show. I dont think there would be some kind of signature. Mark left
we don't know if there was or was it because this again allowed, this investigation has been closed, closed, close to the chest. Now, what I would argue and- and I think we'd different on some of this- because you said earlier yeah rightfully so a lot of the stuff should be kept close to the vest. I think, as you know, we're talking about many years have passed bright all you know. I think investigators need to the more evidence that you release the more leads you won't get, and I know some of liza you'll get are going to be kind of a waste of time. But you and get more leads. So if there was some kind of signature we dont now and if there is then might might want to, is that right, any you- and I have both voice publicly here- that you know regarding Amy Michalek, the grudge is not public, do but regarding the Amy Mahal of a case here from ohio
when they released least information that they did say when they release information, they said, look we're not certain. If this is tied to the case or if or if it's not, you know it could be, but the this item, these drinks, were found in the area found near her body and but but they release this information. What What are you twenty one years later and it's like ok yeah as you're saying father, coon's is murder. This takes place Ninety, ninety, eight, yes, there there could be- There would be reason to release some of that too. To maybe have somebody point. The finger the right guy, especially especially, they come out and say you know. We believe that this guy would have had
obvious signs of injury, probably on his face after this murder took place, and so we're talking about a town of six seven hundred people. If, if, in fact, somebody from the town committed that crime, well, it's not too hard to tie those two things together one law law, enforcement's defense, you know back in nineteen. Ninety eight, I don't think they have a lot of what would be the word. I don't think that a lotta hope or a lot of I don't think they put a lot of weight into arms. detectives and I think you're, seeing now, even with the delphi murders when they come out with that new suspect drawling, you know we released that I've been getting so many. You know we have the sketch that they released with the delphi murders, but I've been getting pictures of suspects that look similar, and then I get one
for background of this individual and I go well. How did you get this? How did you get the background of this individual all? Why did my research? So I I think one law enforcement starts, put in a little more weight and to arm chair detectives and webs luther's in. I think some of these things would wouldn't go call as cold, so fast right and I have I agree with you captain back to something you said earlier regarding these say, tonic aspect of this murder. I'm with you. I think that it was some teenage group of satanist or some random group of sadness that they might have made it clear at the crime scene. There would have been been some kind of visual display of such if it was some kind of weird satanic thing going on within the church. I think you're right. They would be quiet about that. It would be something that they would make. So obvious for investigators, so that the first thing
Yes, regarding the investigation itself, I'm gonna take it just real quick. This is dane county sheriff hamblin. He is he he notes in this article in his interview that he is a lifelong catholic. He does admit that the investigation, has been tedious and frustrating. He said that they had track down thousands of tips from public and they were checking and re trick, reach checking what is now a room full of detailed police reports he says, I dont know how many people we ve spoke to. I do know that it's been quite a number of people. It's been all the way from one coast to the other end of the country. As far as people did
I spoke with now in this same interview, one by one. He dismisses the more fancy full possibilities in this case, any dismisses them outright, the first being something we spoke about. Yesterday, the calf mutilation connection, he said nope. You know that it was there any connection between father coon's in the death of this cat. He says nope there, there has been lots of rumours around town regarding that incident, but they didn't find anything they investigated it. They didn't find anything the timeline of that killing of the calf might not actual actually be accurate, either minette. Could to spend rumour hearsay, the thing was the exorcism referral remember, we said that it was thought by some other priest, dick coon's was to be contacted or to be conducting an exorcism soon in the near future. Before his
F occurred. The thing here is, they said the same thing we did. They investigated that and nothing came up. Now he adding his own opinion, though, stating that when, when people talk about an exorcism referral as far as this cases concerned, he says that he whom he would actually think of someone with a mental illness rather than somebody being possessed by a deep This is from his police background and he says that he believes that ever evidence in this investigation has pointed to that. This would be very emotional murder which brings all sorts of possibility. So what he's what I think, if we're trying to read between the lines here of what the sheriff hamblin is saying a probably very emotional murder. The
reading between the lines I feel like. That means it there. Some ties there's some more direct ties from the assailant to the victim, rather than just, some mentally ill person, somebody there is demonstrably possessed, or some satanist a or or or a random drifter. You know because that was one theory at the beginning of a by that begins we. We do have evidence that there was no breaking and entering so that was was a drifter that the father was trying to help, or was this somebody that he knew and he let this person in or did this person have access to this? Some more theories right and I think the thing their reading between the lines that I think the sheriff is implying, some kind of relationship between the murderer and that the victim there right, some knowledge of who was his murderer
and he was also directly asked about a church connection. Perhaps the controversy going on springfield, illinois diocese and he says nope, there was no connection confirmed that action either. You spoke about that little bit yesterday about out about some investigations that Koontz was rumored. We king and firm. He was rumored to have been involved in some kind of investigations into the diocese, an springfield illinois ma and also all season and all of illinois, and so what if you say on the radio show, what did the people working on the race showed know? That seems, like very controversial catholic radio show a you're going against the church. They never like that. So it is there in eac
We know again we have a priest friend that was on the show talking about these inner child pedophile and rings within the catholic church. So there's your connection or is it connected to the murder? We don't know. But there is a connection there while staying on that no on the thought of another priests and also the their radio show as well in the aftermath of coon's. Is death You know the aftermath got strange and then it got even stranger. There would be stories The exorcism referral that we talked about the satanic, assassinate assassination. Eventually, any windows of sexual impropriety by coon's and we'll get to that in a little bit therewith. even be allegations that his murder could somehow be linked. Evil in the most unthinkable of places. The vast catholic hierarchy that coon's was tied to as a priest,
some even blame the vatican and rome, so cool someone with in the church really have killed. Coon's ordered him to be killed, rightly get hit. Well, remember: we spoke about p Kelly. He is the attorney that was the producer of the radio show that had worked with coon's for quite some time, in monroe, wisconsin Oh Peter Kelly, when asked tat question, could somebody in the church really have killed? Coon's are ordered him to be killed his response? absolutely as unbelievable as that may sound to some people he says absolutely Annie. also adds that there were an awful lot of people in the church
for whom life would have been a lot easier. If father coons was not around right saw again, I think he was doing some investigative work. This is like, I said a couple of years before the whole spotlight thing in in Boston. If you haven't seen that movie etiquette, it's it's very educational on on the inner workings of systems. Now they protect themselves and- and I think he probably knew some stuff and again the you know, like I said, there'd be a signature. Now, if you're just trying to shut somebody up, you only need one signature, a slit throat and that's normally indication of that this person was talking great correct. I mean that and not saying that other people aren't murdered for other things, or people aren't murdered like that. But to me it's like I'm this, this person kind of knew what they're doing there. They they cut an artery which doesn't happen
in every slip, you know not every time does somebody slit somebody's throat do they hit an artery. So it feels like you know, maybe that this person kind of had some understanding of what they were doing, while in one story that has kind of weaved itself into the story of the murder of Alfred Kuhn's of father. Our coons is this one. This is a string sorry, but this is a man claiming to be coon's his friend. This is habit ryan, saint, an scott. now, this person felt the kuhn murder was related to coon's. Is investigation of sexual abuse scandals inside the diocese in this referring to the springfield illinois, diocese, stating that coon's had allegedly been investigating reports of homosexuality and sexual abuse by priest within that diocese. Now, how did these to find each other? Well reverend, ryan and scott claim,
and did in he's currently going by a different name. in an o s, be those I think that stands for some kind of title their captain, but this is a part of this is also be you more familiar with that one. So Scott is what has been levelled by the catholic church as an independent catholic priest I guess what I am. I if either means he's not in communion with rome. Right. That's what I am father captain s opie. The other thing that the debatable topic about this guy, though, is the it's whether he was validly ordained or not. Is the big debate and that's the argument that the catholic church, if you're saying well, why why
they want to say that he's not ordain, because they want to discredit this man, who claims to be a victim of sexual abuse by members of the catholic clergy in an incident that occurred, and the archdiocese of Milwaukee he states. This was after after coon's is death but this man states that ninety ninety eight, his confessor and spiritual director was reverend father, Alfred coon's from dane was com. of course, the brutally murdered in his church, and he, but stating you know that he was working with this guy. He had worked with coon's regarding his personal worry and regarding these allegations that he's brought forward about springfield illinois now his own personal, his own person tragedy that took place or the crimes against him would have taken place early in the fall of nineteen, seventy six. So what
when this guy was a much younger man. He he was moodily gang raped and the saint Johns cathedral in Milwaukee was caught, wrote wisconsin. According to him, he states that he was lord there under false pretences. By fellow priest and was set up for humiliation and bodily harm when, according to scott father, coon's was was determined to two to validate the this guy was actually ordained that he was an actual real ordained priest. because, as this like, I said before the system covering up the system now so there. Ok, we're on discredit this guy by saint him, he's not ordain, so ok again, what does that have to do with anything? Can you answer me that, well I mean I mean this on a grand scale thing, because there,
you. If you read the full length of his allegations against these other priest. He would have. To have been a priest for this too, for the crime to have gone down the way he said it went down. So if so do you see what I'm saying they're right says so that churches and if he wasn't ordain than therefore the story is both right, It's like if I said you know I was. As a member of the oakland raiders prophesied. My my phone has gone off to shut off your phone in the garage. first time we ve got a phone now. I guess I got guilty of that once I think we're even stephen now, but what I'm getting at is the way that the story goes down. Is that it be the same? If I said I was a member of the oakland raiders and during half time inside the locker room, the one of the players punched me out. Ok, then, on the same thing, It would be like you say in Europe. Are the oakland raiders you're the partner?
Then, when you gonna walk room, your gang rape by the office of line, I dont think that would be the same now. What I'm saying is did it? It is the exact because, as soon as I go and I report the crime and then the oakland raiders go different He's never been well done, but They say he's never been a member of this football team then immediate my allegations my whole story falls apart immediately. Sadly, it is what I'm saying, but how If I'm stating that that what did the assault took place at half time, while I was employed by the oakland raiders- and I they're in the locker room, because I was a player on that team and I was assaulted. and then they go well. That's impossible! He's never been a member of this football team. He would have never been in the lot. I really don't know what he's talking. My argument, as that would be yes lie lie, but if you can prove one of those things now would be the
again. Oh, why am I in I work for the garage bauble Y got beat up She don't work for this grudge, but I have proof that I was beat up we'll just because you know I was in truth by what about one thing doesn't mean that, just because just because I lied about one thing doesn't mean the next thing I automatically immaculate, what I'm saying possibly. But what I'm saying is. If you read the full length of this these accusations he would have had to have been a priest. He would had been working in their capacity for right. So this right for this to be truthful at all But then the argument to is that father coon's was trying to prove right he was trying to validate this guy being as an ordain priests. in another motive for the system to cover up the system, this saint
in person himself. He is a controversial character and that's not just by the opinion of the church in nineteen. He has a felony conviction from nineteen. Before for misconduct in public office apparently he had a cheque from the city forth de dollars and he magically made it turn into a check three hundred dollars and he got caught for this. The old adage, zero trick that too, list of things not to do that. We were going over yesterday captain, but this this person- and I again similar situation to you know malady martin that we discussed yesterday when it comes to this guy huh. Has these allegations, they are interesting. Are they true? I dont
Oh there's, I dont know that there's enough evidence or enough proof to back up some of his statements now it has been reported that we talked about roughly We know the kind of touched on that springfield illinois connection, but the the bishop eventually did resign from his office there. So I dont know if if you can make your own opinion on that. If it that means, if there is any sign of guilt or not while and that's one of the one of the major things that the spotlight team uncovered in boston was whether it was people resigning, ordered them moving around priest to cover their tracks so a cover their tracks, amene, basically to hide criminals. Captain we gotta talk about
The thing, though, here, because about two years after the murder of father coon's, there's an article that came out. This is from the madison associated press stating that the title is slain priest had relationships with women. Oh yes, he did and I'll give you the gist of it. Rather than read through the whole thing, read it slow like one of those penthouse forms of so basically what their stating here is that the investor others believe that father coon's had carried on intimate relationships with women in authority other your eye, are there any other kind for about twenty years. Continuing just prior to his death, now invite The gators came out with this information because they were asking the public for leads
Did they had this new possible motive rights? The motive would be he was having a sexual relationship with a married woman, and then, though, the husband found out and then decided to kill father current yet became a jealous rage stormed into the church and which is definitely crime of passion. So I could see being a possible motive. This this seems likely, you know, would seem more likely if he wasn't as old as he was correct That's one thing that the allotted the parishioners were pointing out that we're stating you know they felt it. I think the church and- and I mean his specific church, people that had relationships as as far as a priest and parishioner relationship with father koons. They got very upset about the coming out nate in they actually got very upset with their own sheriff in their own sheriffs department, because they almost felt like these allergy.
And were not warranted, did they were really just kind of dragging the good father's name. through the mud after death, while the statistics are like only forty, seven percent of pre stir are celebrant anyways. So thou me, that's pretty enough for people to take an oath points that you know, an oath of chastity right you're, stating that the numbers are on the side of the investigators allegations yeah, but but it is a dumb roy anyways mean that that with that wasn't put in place by the church for for a very long time only put into place, who had nothing to do with being more wholly or anything like that was more just so the prince and the community had a lot of power, and so, if they had kids than they could transfer,
power over so thou you're becoming more of a kingdom than you are checked, so the catholic church put that into law and therefore they can it passed down the their power to their family. While this would lead the investigators you investigating in inner viewing a lot of the female parishioners and we have. I have an account of how some of the questioning went down for one woman, but we will get bright to that after this quick beer break the hello fresh you get farm, fresh proportion, ingredients in seasonal recipes, delivered right to your doorstep, skip trip. To the grocery store and count on hello, fresh to make home cooking, easy, fun and affordable that
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We were talking about some of the parishioners getting question female perverseness regarding if father coon's head intimate relationships, them, while one woman, this is more a smith. She was a saint Michael parishioner who was identified as one of the women the police thought coon's might have been having an intimate relationship with now. Smith describes the police attention as relentless, intimidating and unbearable Her a butcher knives were confiscated from our family daddy, while they searched her home confiscated butcher, knives, a baseball, bat tools, snapshots of coon's and other personal items of hers there was, in our view, upon tough interview. She says again after poland, stuff, like the baseball bands. Therefore, how can we assume that maybe he was hit with some object? Maybe he was attacked by
more than one weapon right and again. Wouldn't that be something that you I dunno addicts, I have a real issue with them, keeping too much information close to the vest. Are they? The authorities also took blood and hair samples, and they would say that a mara. You know they would ask more questions more, I'm sorry did. Did he touch you did he grab you and she's like just above the belly button, while they said he, they told her, that they were asking the same questions and doing similar searches with all of the women of the parish. Oh yeah, you expect them to be asking these questions these women, if, if this is possible motive well, the thing here is smith says of her experience. You know regarding father, coon's was did their relationship was was innocent. She says father coon's was a gentleman
She says regarding her what she would call intimidating, questioning that she received from the police as well as them searching her home. She states that she has suffered it more her fair share of what what was entailed in this investigation, she eventually moved out of the area she moved to Milwaukee. Mill awoken because she was upset about the ordeal citing police harassment and accusing the sheriff's office of dragging coon's, his name through the mud. So that's one ladys, that's one of the ladys of the parish, her experience as far as the allegations about. father, coons with women of the right search and if there were potentially a jealous husband or boyfriend involved in the murder right. So basically what you know they come up with this theory and they strive. He tries me insane
Let's come up with the theory, and then we try to prove it. How about you try to prove it before you start, you know again will hold all the stuff to the vest, really closely. But you know we're gonna start spreading rumours that this this father was having affairs with the with ladys from his well on a lot of times. Investigators or police will use the word intimate to to mean just a close relationship to describe a close relationship. I think that some irresponsible, Well, one thing that they did in this investigation in and when they would speak publicly about this investigation was at some point they dropped. That word has an. You know saying intimate relationship with the priest, because at some point they started saying you know. Their belief is that this person had an intimate relationship with the priest and had a good working knowledge of the church itself or the building that he was found murdered in
now. The thing here is like I said they drop, that that intimate title and just change it. to a relationship or close relationship with the father, some point, because it no- they didn't backlash from the air from the from the parish, while course again investigated. Then present the thing dont presented a theory than investigate. I again I'd think that's irresponsible, so that that theories kind of squash and what else we have, I know we had some profiles than they had. Yes, so the police. I do think that the investigators here did a pretty thorough job on this investigation seems like they ve, worked very hard and tried everything they could one thing they did work with fbi profiles, thee forensic answer- behaviour science experts who discern probable behaviour at crime scenes based on physical evidence in consultation with him
the gators police. Consider these profiles to just be guiding tools. We all know that, and here are the conclusions of the f b. I profiles regarding the father coons case. This is their thoughts, one. The offender showed obvious rage publicly, unlike in the likely motive, was related to jealousy revenge, betrayal or something else very personal, so a personal vendetta against the the priest. They also state that number two that the weapon might have a connection to the king employment or hobby, and the weapon is one that the killer feels comfortable using three. The impetus of the murder could have been an incident that occurred between the killer. Other coon's within seventy two hours of the crime. This could have been the result of a long or short term conflict and possibly
of a nature that other people would consider insignificant and his laugh, because could have been a short term. Work been well been wrong to these profiles, Kim gimme vague at times the or would have tried to ensue, ensure an alibi to account for his absence during the time of the homicide, the excuse might be weak, but the killer will not waver from it. The next one is the day after the murder, the offender might have missed work claiming ill. or injury. We ve heard about this and in many other cases that we ve covered. If the killer did go to work, it would have been difficult for him to concentrate while worrying how the police might be able to find a link between him and the murder. The killers preoccupation with the cry may have caused noticeable behavioral changes such as with withdrawing from friend family changes in eating,
sleeping habits and or increased you use of drugs and alcohol. I mean we see this alot at times too, to me, crit nino commits a crime and and then really fall follows it. As as obsession and they sometimes being caught that way, as as a result, yeah and regarding the drugs and alcohol you know sometimes aid. believe that's away of the person dealing with the gil or dealing with the stress of being worried that they're gonna get tied to the They also state that it is possible that the killer is vocal in proposing theories about the crime that draw away attention such as interpreted burglary hours are interrupted. Burglary more transit theory or a conspiracy theory regarding the death of codes?
a lot of people didn't present weird theories, maybe father martin did, but I saw other than that. Well, I think I think there were a few people working with in some capacity with the church that were voicing some, What we would say quote unquote weird theories, but yet not many theory seems to be coming from the general public. Their other thought would be the p or close to the killer, may be oh, be aware of a past dispute with the father. They might suspect the killers involvement in the crime, but they also might sympathise with the killer said wait. That seems like a strange want to throw in there. I wish I would have ex that one out of of profiling. Is I want to cells. We we're next the killer the white male. Here's where we get to some more specific. It's always a white man, the white guy did it and the killer is a white man.
probably in his late twenties or older. They estimate the age because of the killer. Lack of panic after the murder This must be somebody that's a little order. That's a little more patient than this wasn't atinas or a very young man, the amount was known to father Koontz, but also had a physical size that posed no threat to the to the father, other currents rights are not large man, while this may We wonder because their they their gathering. Some of this evidence as physical evidence and with kids caught consulting with the active investigators on this crime, when they say that he has no physical size that pose a threat to father coon's. There If you believe the he that father comes very likely, opened the door and let this person into the and I think we ve seen evidence of that yeah coon's,
murder was probably employed full time. Nothing of value was taken from the scene. Remember we said early an investigation, they would not rule out robbery. It sounds like it here. Been ruled out, which I think you know that the drifter. You know doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The drifter probably would have taken something would have would have robbed the place in some form yeah, but again it's a big church too. So I mean it could be some. in again and we also don't have father. Coons is not writing down an inventory of everything. That's true, so there could be. There could be some idlis. You know like some of those like wine cups, that they have you know, or maybe they're just gold plated, but you'd think maybe one of those would be gone, but again, how many did they have? There could have been something taken and they just didn't know it. I agree with that
I went from drifter theory doesn't make any sense to still still involved it's still on the plate with a way to scratch it off the paper, how we yeah. They also state that the killer had at least a high school education. I love how they figure these things up a full time employed at least a high school location and no extensive criminal record. The killers intelligence is average, but he is, he is without the street smarts of a sophisticated criminal so almost stating you know, we see no extensive criminal record and without this sophisticated street smarts of a sophisticated criminal. So this might be this for persons first brody. So to speak, my in at the very maybe even more ten committed, crimes at all, one is, the killer did not expect the amount of blood gut
from the fatal wound, complicating the weapon, his clothing, and this this would complicate the disposal of his clothing in the weapon. This creating a problem for the killer. Also unexpected was how fierce coon's struggled, no matter how brief the alternation was the killer, was punched the several times and may have been scrapped or cut by the murder weapon itself. These injuries would have been visible to those close to the murderer. Well, I, like those b. I profiles captain and I like when they were at least them for I could read those all day long and your right, though, there's there art owing to listen to him. All day here, things in their that you can snicker at the you can laugh add a little bit there amid there are some vague vagueness to them so at times, but I think that
That would lead us to our next topic, which would be you know. We discussed theories Let's talk about some more the talk suspects and let's talk about them as specific suspects. So several sources confer armed at one time in this investigation that the investigation was targeting the teacher who had found coon's is body three after this was. This is different, though, because this is after the this teacher moved in with coon's his friend, who did he move in with he moved in with reverent for york now here we talked about this guy he's a long time, friends with father coon's and this court, unquote suspect, moves and with the oily lives with them for about six months. This is almost immediately after the murder, the tea
eventually moved out of the state and was recently engaged to be married. I'm guessing! I don't have anything to back this up, but I'm guessing that, possibly that relationship with the woman may have taken him out of the state and after finding the body, though this teacher called nine one one on the morning of march fourth, nineteen. Ninety eight, the teacher did pass. This is according to police, a past police questioning and what they did was, I suppose, as police questioning, then I was waiting for you say a polygraph, but no. This is according to the police and now one thing that they did at the time and they took this person's clothing because remember after finding the body, this teacher's clothing covered in blood, so they took his clothing and they left. They basically left the teacher wrapped up in a blanket. Why happened was win, win. Father coon's was found
murdered at the church. You know there was supposed to be school that day Who is going to be other teachers. There was gonna, be students there. This was going to be a regular day in dane endanger county, but what happening was they discover the murder, and so they sent all of these parishioners all the school children, all the ball rising to the school that morning, they sent them across the street, the village hall now there His teacher this teacher, that is more shocked than the rest of parishioners because he in fact found the body. He's had his bloody bloody clothing confiscated from am taken from him. He's wrapped in a town sitting amongst all of these other people who were shocked at their their priest was killed, walk up things. What this means, murder weapon would have to be close and they should be able to do dna testing to see if this teacher had any blood like a mixture of blood between his fathers,
but you know I'm assuming they did that that testing, while the police, they the the thing the problem they had with him as a suspect was they in this might just be their intuition that this that's taking while this might just be their own. You know experiences as a police officer or detective, but they are stating that they would find it highly highly improbable that this guy would have killed the priest some time at night. So this would probably have taken I use eleven thirty twelve thirty that night and then been the first one to return to the crime scene, to find the victim the thing captain, though they or that he would stay in the church. The whole time correct answer. We also have the teacher was again interviewed by investigators at least once that I could find this
been in late march with a lawyer present so question the day of the finding. and then question again at a later date in march now, sometimes when questioning somebody it's not because it's not to insinuate any guilt, maybe they're not guilty anything you're just going over what they saw anything they recollect the and taken place. Maybe there is something that you missed the first time, fiori and others, involved that new this man in new father, coon's very well, have told said publicly. They cannot. Imagine any connection from this teacher to the actual me and then everybody kind of coming to the defence of this teacher, stating that the teacher was not did not appear to have been injured in any way. On march forth, and remember we said, according to the fbi profiles,
as the investigators acount put up a pretty good fight, even if it was a short fight before his throat with slash yeah. The problem with that, though, how would that evidence is again? We don't know what what they're talking about so like I said before, maybe there's bruises on his knuckles and stuff like that and there's multiple ways mean: maybe get a bruise from your knuckle, because you did punch somebody or maybe get a from your knuckle, because in this struggle your hand smacks against the wall, so I think sometimes that you know there is just quote: unquote scientific evidence of maybe that this guy put up a fight and that somebody should be injured. But then you know we cannot air that there's always that slim possibility that what you're, seeing what you think you're seeing scientifically is not what you're saying right right. You know so that didn't see didn't have any injuries that were visible to the public on that day that the body was found and also
it that the teacher did not show any visible signs of anger toward father coon's at any time before or after the murder, and this to me seems a kind of a weak suspect. Obviously, you'd want to question this individual because he found the father that he actually worked with father, but this seems like a week suspect me, but there is a stronger suspect. Yes, there was a stronger suspect and before we get to this. This other suspect, staying on your same thought. There investigating the person the found him off So investigating the person that last was known to see father coon, so we You have father Fiori who did endure a heavy, please scrutiny at will time and one article I found- and I couldn't confirm this with it with other articles but state that he had been cleared in as having any involvement in the murder of the priest. Now so here, here's the next
in this guy might be a little bit better of a suspect them both of the last two people we discuss. So this comes from a gentleman by the name of matt abbot. He somebody that's covered this case. Exe pensively he's a writer. A journalist has covered this case extensively over the years and one article they he wrote was titled. Did a hanged, rapist kill a wisconsin east and end the article he says that he had received an email from a person named John Cavanaugh. Now this on cabin all is a retired, dane county deputy John was stating that he knew the person while he knew of a person with violent a very violent background who was in the area on the day of father. Coon's is murder. This person that he's going to say allegedly killed father coon's is now deceased, yanks gonna endlich.
Adam well. Where did John Cavanaugh get his information? He says? Did the suspect his father had told John that this aspect had contact with father Koontz and that he had asked father comes for money he was refused and in this persons words he said. He had a rough him up, so he had a rough up. The priest after he's, denied money. Now this perpetrator, the suspect, is john cabin nephew, so it would be johns brother, the father of the suspect they gave him. This information now who is his nephew, his nephew had a history of violence towards women. He was in carson did pending trial on charges of assault and kidnapping, and he it'd suicide while he was waiting for that trial, he had previously serve time in state prison for assaulting another woman motoring so
Think about this too. I mean think about how many cases that we've had, I think, aurora shooting the moore theater shooting at sandy hook. I think a couple of other ones were where the parents hear about a crime and they get a gut feeling that it was their their son or their daughter or whoever right right. and so we have this case where this thing happens in a small town but yeah, maybe the father, you know, gets more information, but he had a gut feeling for the beginning. While the strange thing about this person saying that he to know. He was refused money and then he had a rough up the priest. Well, he used this same phrase. he described a crime he had committed, like eight or ten years before the murderer, father coon's, he had went to his own grandfather for money and asked her
for money and was refused, and he told he told his father about this and said I had a rough up grant my grandfather cause. He refused me money. He rubbed the grandfather so badly that the guy had to go to the hospital and he spent the rest of his days in a wheelchair so It was damn near murder, you don't mean to use the words had to rough him up so this man, john cabin, although is saying that he had once he had this information from his brother about his nephews. Confession quote: unquote: confession he notify the sheriff's office, He said that they did do a little bit of follow up on this. They contacted the father. They spoke with him, but they did get back in content with this john cabin on they told him. You know what What your nephew told to your brother cannot be construed as a confession: rom did its ended. This is not considered.
confession, obvious we're looking at a suspect it's already dead. Maybe that has something to do with how much effort that they're gonna put into this thing. Try to get them time and time again to to consider this as as a strong theory, in this case he says, but for what it's worth, he is a retired dane county deputy, so he he would have worked with some of these investigators. He said that there are personality clashes with me who are in power at the sheriff's office today, which could very well be one reason for their perceived failure to act upon his claims. He says it there in no hurry to admit that perhaps they should have followed up on this information years ago. Now John. And all nephew is Joseph cabin on as we
he did have a history of violence and possibly mental illness. The esa come a weird things here, cause one you'd think that this police department wood and we ve seen this time and time again without the police departments, where, even if this is not the right guy, this guy's and so therefore you can't defend himself. I mean we're not going to bring charges, but there's not gonna, be charges to anybody in this case, but this case will at least be close, and this is the most you know I let you dare say popular case or most covered case in their small little county, so you'd think we would just gotta get this close, and so I I kinda you know wanna say hey. I applaud them for not just you know, gone here's the guy. He did it we're never going to charge him. So, let's move on right and but it seems like they didn't do their due diligence on this, and I
The reason why I think that this aspect being dead is is a hindrance for them is something that they don't wish to pursue. I wonder if the investigators, no, the confession, is really the ultimate way of solving. You know that This is might be the only way left of solving this crime, or this always says so much time has passed and there might not be if the if the attacker tenant cut him self in their there might not be any dna evidence they did test. It was about for five years into the investigation. They said that they had a small amount of dna that they wanted to test and they were going to test in this investigation. However, they tested it in when they come back and they don't really want to talk about the results or there You know they do say well in kind of went nowhere. While that means it means it is either not dna that they thought that they had a means is pupil. Fright right, it's it's not going to.
Led to anybody's arrest now wha out this. On this theory, my gut feeling is look mean no parent as You know one of the worse now other than your child passing away. The the second worst thing would be right: your child committing some some heinous crime like this to the fact that the father is coming forward and saying look, I I believe my son, responsible for this murder. That holds a lot await with me, and it thank you for saying that, because that remind me, the them The vibe I got from what I read was that the the father not only did the the uncle suspect this guy, but the father backed it up as well as the the man's mother firmly believed that he was involved in the the murder of father, coons and now more about this. Abbott. Who is covered this case extensively, and this is of more recent article, that he has
regarding the death of father coon's, he says and if it is a very long article and the juicy stuff is at the end. So I'll read read the end of that article and it says now for that interesting bit of information pertaining to the murder investigation. These states that once again he was contacted by somebody. This is a private investigator had informed him that the prime aspect was a man who was known to father coon's. Apparently this man was having more than a platonic relationship with another man who was also known to father guns. The second man reportedly had some sexually suggestive photos of the suspect in his bedroom. According to the investor the simplest explanation is usually the best one. The investigator told Matt abbot in stating that may be father coon's caught the two together or saw a photo that was compromise.
and maybe the man had confessed to father coon's about their homosexual relationship. Probably no one will ever know which one of those is is true, but he says you know all of the circumstances. You know, even without the pie, simple motive, pointing primarily at the suspect, unfortunately, this price Early does not translate to anything beyond reasonable doubt. Basically he he stating that this this guy went out and killed father coon's, because he was aware of. the relationship that he was having with another man, and this private vesta gator does he believes that the police did their job, that they did their due diligence? He thinks what has really really put this investigation on its side was that the the man he was having a relationship with was not very far
coming with information and may have even lied to the police early on in this of investigation weren't? So that's not what you just said is that clear, so the guy that murdered father coon's was actually have an affair with, and man, I don't know if he was having an affair, but he was having, according to this article in this investigators having a relationship, he was having a homosexual relationship. So since father coons knew about this homosexual relationship, he had to murder him. That doesn't seem like that. That's a according to this investigator in the article written by man, abbot, right yeah. I don't like this theory that much at all now, police did state that there was an anonymous letter that was sent to the police years ago in this investigation that did name a suspect for them later. Police were able to identify who
this anonymous person is now they ve not outwardly said who the anonymous person was. They ve also not stated who the implicated in the letter that was sent to them now. So where does this investigation led them? well. The thing here is, I wonder if that's where this in this private investigator came up with this whole theory about the tomb. Having a relationship that one of em would moved out of town, one of em remained in town and maybe the the remained in town knew what was going on lied to the police. Early and investigation felt bad felt guilty knows who killed the father, killed the priest and sent this anonymous letter. That's my that's a suspicion. That's a bit of a leap! I understand that captains alike but of a leap but by two thousand and nine investigators with the dane county sheriffs department.
Were willing to state that they did have a long time suspect they would not name who this aspect was. Instead, it has never been named, they ve not arrested this person because they have lack of sufficient sufficient evidence to do so. You ve gilmore, he was the lieutenant of detectives with the department said that the suspect left town soon after her father coon's is murder. He said that they know where this person is. They know that they they know what he's up to lead there they're watching him or have watched, keep an eye on him. They state that, if indeed he had committed this murder then he's aid pretty clean, you know he's not gone out their wherever he's, locating committed other crimes, and they also state that they certainly don't think that there is any threat to the public out there.
yeah, I laughed about my god: wow, hey dummies, wake up, killed a priest right right, the suspect that you believe, as a suspect of he's actually somewhat of a suspect, he killed a priest because he was havin havin, a relationship with another may. Well, that's if those two are actually tied together. That was me me making them lee, but I know what you're getting at here, captain of somebody's capable of killing a priest once think they read in their throw. I think they always remain a threat to the public, but as much as well as much as we want to get upset about that statement that Gilmore made to the newspaper. The thing here is it doesn't matter because what can they do if they dont have evidence, they can't arrest the guy and and ensure the public debt not gonna harm anybody else, they're kind of left with their hands tied. So what gilmore? Basically stating the as
of you know. This was in two thousand nine article. However, he states in this article there of two thousand and eight that suffer was alive. He was under surveillance by somebody or he and he was no longer living in the dane county jurisdiction mara. Well, that's you know it does leave a little sour taste in your mouth drinking beer. There's no there's no sour taste in this, then I got a little taste the honey. Did you hear the man talk about this delicious beer? So does of that, lead you to to any direction in this case. Where were you feel that you have a bow her idea or better sense of who committed this crime now is writ originally look into this, my gut feeling and polly because had just watch spotlight? My might I really
gut feeling was. You know, father Martin, talking about possibly some kind of inner workings of the church and trying to cover his. You know, system covering up system, that's kind of where my gut feeling was gone, but like You said we read into this when you have a child that you believe or had the capability of doing this roughed up his grandfather had all these vicious attacks. Kidnappings were on women and uses the same verbiage when he talks about Ruffin. He had to rough up the father ray a father, coons that is, and and so now you've got an uncle a father an mother all stating that this person, they believe, should be the number one suspect there might not be evidence to prove that russia so that we know what kind of ties law enforcement hands so but you know. Then they toss in this other person and I don't want ok their remarks
hey. You know he's not a threat to society, while that that is both bullshit, you know, and they should be reprimanded somehow for just that dumb ass comment, but I, but how would you rep? I thought about this quite a bit: justice bacon in front of evil sent by income by don't think they do. The wound depends on the boat we here, but the thing is is then, but again, if there's not enough evidence to link, you know the one suspect what was his name again that those Joseph Joseph cabin, all the data collected the committed suicide yeah. If there's enough not enough evidence to link him or maybe they did look into that, and they just don't think he's the guy because they have enough information on this. Other suspect that this has only thing there.
it may. You know kind of makes me question again: mom father uncle verbiage, his attacks before the suicide, all those things that you know, that's your number one suspect, but I don't want to discredit law enforcement if they go. We got this other guy and would like to get him here, I am with you Kevin. I think I'm, the one thing I think a rule out here is the satanist aspect. Now rule that out. I think that I think that one seems less likely the more you get into this situation, and you see that it is very likely that the father coon's had some type of personal relationship with the person they committed this crime, whether it be just somebody that attended his church. I think it was a familiar face. They knocked on the door that night and he opened up the door to the
to his killer, and I think that's how the yeah, but you can't roll out. You know some eight part of the clergy, so solemn saying, but I again think it somebody somebody that the father recognised that night and I think he let them into the building. Now there was a greece that recently wrote the killer, father coon's still walks among us No one can be certain if this vis vicious killer has or will strike again until them, father coon's is arresting convicted and individual possessed by walks among us assured that at at least once he has successfully murdered a man of god and gone unpunished until this crime is solved, those who hate god and his people know that it is possible to kill and get.
way with murder. Anybody having any information regarding the murder of father koons, I should call the dane county sheriff's office at six zero. Eight two eight four, six, eight seven one and I really hope they do get more information and and have that closure of this case cause. One of the things that I applaud, offered father, Alfred coons for doing was to look at his own and to see that there was a problem with n and the inner workings of of the church right and something
He fully believed- and I mean he committed his life to the church. He committed his life to a community so whether or not you're, religious or not, and anybody that I think commits themself to a community and lifting up people and doing good instead of harm. I applaud those people but also applaud the fact that he saw that there are an evil demons within the church preying on kids and that he was in some research and at least diving into it, and not turning a blind eye, as so many have well. I applaud and applaud him for that recommend in reading for this we cannot and we are recommending the operator firing shots that killed osama bin laden and my
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Transcript generated on 2023-05-29.