« True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers

# 12-Body Count-Author Burl Barer

2010-03-31 | 🔗
On August 26, 1997, the half-naked body of prostitute Heather Hernandez, 20 was found in an empty lot in Spokane Washington. The same day, the decomposed corpse of prostitute Jennifer Joseph, 16, was discovered in an alfalfa field. Both women had been shot in the head.The day after Christmas, four more women were found with plastic bags tied over their heads, the gruesome signature of a killer who had sexually violated each one of them, after they had died.Police had only one good lead, a driver in a white Corvette who picked up prostitutes on the street.When the killer is finally arrested he turns out to be a devoted husband, a father of five, a National Guard helicopter pilot and a Desert Storm veteran. Not since the Green River Killer had the Pacific Northwest been so terrorized by so savage a serial killer. Robert Lee Yates Jr. is charged for 13 murders. Edgar Award-Winning Author Burl Barer discusses BODY COUNT: The Terrifying True Story of the Spokane Serial Killer.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Are you hungry for the usual today or are you ready to spice things up with the new Nashville hot brisket from firehouse subs, where kicking up our slow smoked, beef brisket with Nashville hot seasoning, is topped with melted pepperjack and are sweet and tangy slaw served piping hot on a toasted corn, bread, roll yeah, a corn, bread, roll, save time order, your new Nashville hot brisket on the firehouse subs app today, firehouse subs enjoy more subs, save more lives, participating locations limited time only the Starlight Lounge presents an evening with the Progressive box. Here, let's you go tickling the ivory's he just saved by bundling home and auto, with progressive, going to finally buy a ring for that gal of yours. You go send him my condolences. I owe this next ones, for you too, there's a burglar in my heart. Thank you. Cousin completes discount available in all states of situation.
Oh yeah. You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about him: gaiety, Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker BT came every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the most shocking, an infamous killers into crime history through murder, with your host journalists and other Dan asking. Good evening this is your whole stands capacity for the programme to murder the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the others that have written about them. On August, twenty six, one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven, the half naked body-
prostitute Heather is your cell phone bill out of control. Then this is your wake up call the new Tracfone wireless gives you unlimited talk and text, starting at twenty dollars a month, no contract plus unlimited carryover data with active service yep, the new Tracfone wireless now you're in Control C terms and conditions at tracfone, dot, com, Hernandez. Twenty was in an empty lot in Spokane Washington the same day, the decompose CORE to prostitute Jennifer Joseph Sixteen was discovered in an alfalfa field Both women been shot in the head the day after Chris this war, more women were found with plastic bags tied over their heads, the gruesome sing, picture of a killer who had sexually violated each one of them after they had died. And then there were more victims when the king There's finally arrested. It turns out to be a devoted husband, a father of five National Guard helicopter pilot desert storm veteran. Not since the in river killer. Had the Pacific northwest been so terrified by so savage serial killer, Robert Lee Yeats, Yates Junior confesses to fifteen murders, my
ass, this EDGAR award, winning author Borough bear discussing body count the terror, fine, two story of the spokesmen serial killer, welcome too program, and thank you for agreeing. If any of you this evening, girl bear well a flop. Pleasure to be here and for your future information. The town is called Spokane Spokane Thank you very much, a correcting that it looks like it spoke, but it's actually pronounced Spokane lovely town in Eastern Washington and you know I almost didn't write the book. There were about thirty other authors of buying do the story of Brown create an actually. There was another book called murder in Spokane by Mark Furman, which never bed Mr Berman, but allow me to say the book is totally inaccurate. Some Yasser Arafat, the other was gonna? Be my first question because I thought it was very intriguing that a norm
your PA publisher, Pinnacle the to crime, imprint of Kensington Press ahead, approach. Do rather, then you approach them, and you said it was because you were familiar with the social and cultural makeup, the locales your personal interaction with one or more of the principle character is central to the story and yet, and where has it? And yet you said your hesitant to write this book now. Why are you hesitate to write this book and explained the social, social and cultural make up of the area in which incredible story takes place well, his very first victims. It turns out we're actually friends with my fam This goes back to Walla Walla WA, which is a sleepy town of about well officially, twenty five thousand is actually more than that. It's in the S Eastern Washington tip and Patrick all over twenty one in Susan, Savage, twenty two grew up together in Walla Walla WA they've been friends his childhood there, both well known people in the community and
the Oliver family. My family knew each other, it's a it's a close knit town and back in seventy five on July 13th. They went out for picnics and they'd, be home from time for in time for dinner, and they didn't come back. Their bodies were found in a recreational area. Ten miles e of Walla Walla in an area called Mill Creek near a place called the Wickersham bridge. It was a fail outing spot for the Oliver's. They were both found murdered, thereby these under an old tire and of sleeping bag. The murder was never found. It wasn't until years later, two thousand five hundred and thirty years later, when Yates confessed that that murder was cleared up as well. They were friends with my family. In fact, his his
brother years later long before this Spokane serial killer became well known, was a frequent guest in my home, and so there was a connection there and then the one of the murder victims Darla, who is mentioned in her boyfriend, Arthur Arthur and I became friends in Seattle when he was managed an apartment building. He moved back to spoke can an I had friends and relatives in Spokane, my family went there for Bloomsday, my son, randomly Bloomsday Marathon race, and on that day I stopped by to to visit Arthur and his then current girlfriend Darla dropped by a very attractive young, lady wearing very short, cut off jeans and obviously know enter pants, and she proceeded preceded to relate the fact that she just robbed somebody of six
one hundred dollars and then just download. What are you talking about turns out? Dollar darlow was almost freudian slip there, dollar and dollar. She was what we call and they polite vernacular a twenty dollars. Whore. She worked this
breeds, but she happened to meet a very polite gentleman, traveling salesman, who offered her six hundred dollars to spend the weekend with him in the finest hotel in Spokane, and he would do that. I believe twice a month, regular as clockwork, she would be safe, should be well fed. She better be with a safe person and like many people in that's a lifestyle unable to look at the big picture. She took the first six hundred dollars and ran, and I said to her darla. Let me give you a piece of advice. This is how women in your line of work, get this figured ORD worst killed, because men who are doing that are very emotionally sensitive. You may never remember him, but I guarantee you. He will never forget you. You do that to the wrong person you're going to wind up dead. The next time I saw Darla
with photographs of her dead, decomposed body at the dump site where she was murdered and left by Robert Naiades, credible and credible connection. I had no idea I lay of new year from the area, but this is amazing. I lived in the same city with him and while a wall on my daughter went to the same school with him, I knew two of his victims. I admit personally, another one was a graduate of my theme high school, although shoulder the night, so I was familiar with not only the cities but the people and Arthur may his soul rest in peace. He died of a stroke, the heart attack, whatever he helped me
with actually the writing of the book for being a touch with a lot of the people. I interviewed, and he gave me an extensive interviews for the book about Darla. He actually saw gates come and pick her up on their final date. Her body was found wearing his Mickey mouse sweatshirt that he had lent her that day. So I knew these p. And there was because I knew I knew the people I had interacted that, despite their other off, is one to do the book, the publisher, you're out you're. Obviously the guy. Now, what was the? What was the community? Like you say it's a little sleepy little place and what was with what is the Spokane. Like and then what we have is a bigger said. Even while wallop wrangle wallow, if he was living in, you really was- while a while. He was ready for my belief or harbour witches
not too far from Mukilteo, where I was also living at the time high side, the contract to write the book. He I was working in Walla, Walla, WA ironic. We as a prison guard correctional officer, half of Robert will you take, Employee photo they take the employees Joann the convict photos in the same place, just like the booking photos, yahoos two photos of him in the book. One of his employee photo from the 1970s when he was there was a correctional officer and then the photo of him as a prisoner in the 1990s after he was. You know founding end up confessed, so he wanted up right back where it was before ironic. Let's go back. You do early on in the book, go back to Robert Gates, his life, his early life growing up. What were his parents like
So everybody wants to know what the bringing in the life, so they can either draw some conclusions from that or not, but tell us about his early life growing up. Ok, now he actually came from actually a wonderful family. He had great parents and you know a lot of people don't see Koji. Could I can I blame myself, as I have bad father, one one big in another in the hometown of Oak Harbor WA? They don't call him Robert Lee Yates. They call him Bobby to differentiate himself from his father. Interestingly enough, in one thousand nine hundred and forty five, his grandmother wielding a double as the act finally ended. Her husband life is created.
Whether I have a quota is as I was there. I heard the murder in the night he found his father near death and his mother seated in a straight back chair in another room. She had given birth to eleven children bit under the stress of having a husband working away from home and she simply broke. She spent seven years in a state mental hospital, according to th senior senior. According to those who knew Robert creates Junior, they convicted Spokane serial killer. This is a kid was never in trouble. He was always practicing his upbringing. It was a good one. Is upbringing was idyllic, healthy, moral exemplary. He was a far as everyone knew he was nothing, but a good kid he. You know I mean what do you do in the Olympic Mountains about the Pacific Ocean Back pad? hundred drew back. Riding fishing also make cavities up. There are the rule, not the exception, for a lifeline would be island. His
there was an elder in the seventh day. Adventist church was a tiny congregation list of one hundred people. This is a close knit family, good people. You know nothing at all. All that would give you any indication that this kid had something wrong with You don't get any indication until the time of his first marriage. He was married twice. Now before that is, if you can talk a little bit about his military career, could end up talking about him being a national guard, helicopter pilot and and serving in desert storm. When did this all occur? Did this occur after to get together soon after after the first murder, the first murder was in in Walla Walla WA? It was after that that he goes into the sea. How old is he when he does that girl? Oh boy,
I'd have to look at the age better, but the young man you were at the age of twenty. It was first marriage. You marry, though, surely nigh lander removed a college place where he enrolled in Walla Walla College, which is college places like a suburb of Walla Walla, the seventh day, Adventist school eighteen months after the marriage she moved out, they went home and ask for a divorce. He didn't give her an argument at seventy, for he gets married to Linda Brewer, who is the student at Walla Walla Community College, but is seventy four Mary cylinder was illegal and gnawed, because his divorce from his first wife wasn't final six months after the invalid ceremony, they did get get.
So you went into the service. In other words, there is a suspicion that many unsolved murders in Germany, where he was stationed for while he may have been associated with this. Nothing to really. You know back that up. Right now also deserve any indication from. Did you have a chance to speak to his first wife at all? Were there any information whether there is one of the problem of with that? Is that when I was there in in college place, there was a slight problem that She was running out the apartment, next door, there's an apartment, next door and he drilled a hole or in the wall to watch his neighbors have sex. Now everyone needs a hobby, but she does not usually considered socially appropriate. So that was a bit of a problem.
But, like I say he went off, he was in the service, then they only trouble, got in. There was having done little shooting from the helicopter to shoot a buffalo or whatever that they cooked up for dinner. Which was an authorized use of military equipment, but is, as far as his military record. No, he was I mean this guy I believe that even after a wretched there's, gotta going to be a model prisoner in order to follow orders, A hard working guide, nothing lazy about this man who was not afraid of hard work. At all I mean the work he was doing in Spokane was very difficult, demanding way Any aggravated get five kids who loved him in a wife who was putting up with all sorts of nonsense. Going through a lot of money. He lied and broke down and cried. Koledari at a gambling problem, which wasn't wasn't the case with his addiction, was, was a prostitutes in the illegal stimulants.
Now you you make up a point of talking about the area where the sea you'll killer was with hunting, and this is the east break. If I'm not to re write yet, and so this is a rip, whether the prostitutes most vulnerable prostitutes. It may get out of a phone book at an escort service, these ones down the street flying right after you. If you re the book- and I and I am people have been reading- it was rereleased gangi. I guess last year, which I'm very happy to say it's been selling. Well again, I'm always like that. That's great, that's great I had I did a lot of research and you know there's so many myths and misunderstandings about prostitution, prostitution in America. I mean just ask yourself a simple question: if you wanted a rentable sex partner, where is the safest place to go? One is where it
legal! You go to Nevada, you go to prompt, you go the Mustang Ranch. You know, there's not going to be any problem. If you're not going to get a disease known as going to rob you right and the girls are safe when it's illegal all bets are off of the majority of working girls. Is there call working women or working men for that matter are not on the street? That is the minority. Most of them also are not on drugs. That's also a myth: the majority of them work privately or they worked through services their clean. If they were dishonest and rip off artist, they'd be fire. But you have a small segment of women who, for one reason or another- and I really try to get into this this book- to to show that these are real people with real families who have had things happen to them that have put them in this situation and they're highly vulnerable,
and one of the real I've got to give a lot of credit to Spokane Police Department, Spokane Homicide Department. They did something brilliant and so admirable. They went out to these women work in the street and they went out to the pimps. He went out of the drug dealers and they said: listen drugs. Sacks, ok, maybe some seventh misdemeanours, some of its felonies murder, isn't entirely different issue entirely. We don't care what you're selling we don't care, what sex are having someone's killing people here, you know right. This is all we care about. I don't care what drugs you got in your pocket. I don't care how hookers. You got working for you. We don't want anybody getting killed. Here's my phone number! You can talk to me, I'm not good!
interesting when I say, I'm not going to rest you today, counselors cops. Will pull that analysis. I'm not going to arrest you today. What they mean is going to come back tomorrow, but these guys were smart. They knew there was a killer on the loose they want to save lives, and so they built bonds of crust with these working girls and guys in the dealers I mean you're me, you had a strange alliance goin on here. You had the police and the prostitutes and the drug dealers working together to try to catch the killer, and this is something that wasn't happening in Pierce, county and Tacoma area, where this guy was also committing murders. They weren't that far sighted, they didn't, they couldn't think out of the box that way, but Spokane, thank God, did where they. You know they talking to people. They would go right into the drug houses. They don't worry, we're not going to arrest you. We don't care
which you got we're trying to catch a killer, and that makes all the difference in the world the girls knew they could talk to the police, that drug dealers in Tiga talk to the police. You know about this killer, and now I have it affect anything else. Yeah. I think it's admirable that you do point that out and is very admirable effort by the police force to do take to actually generally reach out to those people that might really help. And you're not negotiated, going noble, had driven These are people that don't want to talk to the police. I mean it. Do you do for a living is tragically illegal. The last person going to talk to is a police officer, so they had to and their trust and say: listen, I don't care, I'm a homicide detective. You know, I'm not even take notes on what drugs are selling we're trying to she killer. Here you got girls, work industry.
We want to come back, we don't want him dead. You know right no well getting back to this hunt for this particular person. Obviously, when I introduce this story that ends up confessing, that dean murder, so we're just add a few here, you talk very much and very highly and it looks like you obviously have good access to the task force itself or the the investigation itself. Now tell us a bit about the content with Fdi. Why have any help with the profiling. That's normally done in a case like this. It wasn't there wasn't. It was such a mess. I mean I felt so sorry for these guys. You have a homicide task force in the city of spoke have spoken is much bigger than wallets, assessing small town of limited resources. They put together a task force of
the Spokane Police Department, an some representatives from the Washington State Patrol, is underfunded right. Eventually they did get some financial reimbursement from. I think the federal government but they're working on a limited budget, limited resources if they become somewhat of a political football. And also you had another among the world's fairly well known personality. Who had a radio show in town who was continually talking about the case? Getting the public riled up with a lot of misinformation? A lot of false leads picking on the homicide task force and making your life difficult. When I showed up to do the book and I met with the homicide task force.
Usually, when I go to meet with the homicide task force, which is successfully solve the case, they're very happy to see me right right, not in this situation, you're. Looking at me sideways the minute I walk in the door because there had just been a book. The other book that was written by another author, called murder in Spokane was originally written as an indictment of the homicide task force for being so lousy and not having sold the case well and just before the book was about to come out. They solve the case and the author went to them and said. Please tell me how you did a please give me access for information, and they said I won't give you the exact wording, but basically came down to listen. You're a convicted felon you've done nothing but make life
difficult forests with the stuff, you said on the air and you can go- do an interesting trick that defies the laws of nature. We will have to do with you here then I show up and for all they know, I'm like him, and they wanted me even to sign some sort of an agreement with them that of all over. If I did this wrong or that wrong, I mean it was very very it was. I mean I had to prove myself to them. How do you do that my turn familiar books by my books. My reputation and I met with them repeatedly and about what my attitude was an bless them know there were still working on a deal even though Yates had confessed. There was a plea deal made between two different prosecutors
one in Spokane in the one in Pierce County and then that way if he would plead guilty and if he would tell them where one of the missing bodies was that they take the death penalty off the tee and then the Pierce County prosecutor reneged on the deal? There was going to be a trial and Pierce County and saw things got caught. A messy then terms over. My book was actually held up for almost a year because I couldn't get the photographs and even the photographs in the book aren't that great as far as true put photographs go because they were going to going to be used in evidence in a trial and also, I think it was part of this, so that so they could stay in control, maybe they had been there. I said in their opinion really screwed over by the southern author and is
Robert if they were- and I really must say that Cal Walker of the Spokane Homicide task force in the other guys were all things considered, absolutely fantastic to me, considering what they had been through and how angry they were. With this other author that they're wonderful to me, especially cow, why did Pierce County renege on the plea agreement that so you have got me on that? One I don't know they pulled rabbit out of a hat somewhere and even then I don't know if you ever actually be executed, because if you know, if you, if you don't execute Gary Ridgeway the Green River killer, which is a lot more bodies. How do you execute this guy. You you do, you do make a point in your book, though, if the victims of any sadness they weren't interested in the death penalty, no, they weren't really
He don't usually that some bearing on on the situation doesn't it were that's a whole another issue on victim impact statements and well, not maybe so officially, but when you do have sort of a majority of people that do not want the death penalty, I think it may be a doktor, even though we all emotional one guy, maybe in fact- and I'm I'm glad you mentioned this, because it allows me to give a plug for my forthcoming book, which doesn't come out till January, which is called fatal. Beauty where there is an entire section devoted to this, is the very concept and the argument
it's over whether or not they were even should be such a thing as victim impact statements when it comes to the outcomes, something like that which is very hotly debated, issue. Interesting yeah. But you know it's to Maine one of the fascinating things and that the homicide task force ran into on this situation. Was public apathy? Really I'm just drove them nuts, because he learned gates learned his lesson on that. First killing the first people he killed. We're well known, well respected young people in the city of Walla Walla, and it was headline news front news rewards offered etc. He got the hell out of town and he could learn a few things. One is you don't shoot someone in the head with a three hundred and fifty seven Magnum and their heads in your lap
too easy low, caliber weapon, and if you're going to kill people kill disposable people, people that other people don't care about, supposedly meaning the hooker on Sprague, the story, Walker Like,
not real. Well, they are real people and that's something I really wanted to get across in my book. These were women that had moms and as an they had children that there supporting you know you. Somehow people get the idea that these aren't real people like one of 'em famous cases there's so many of them had worked for years in local hospitals. I had a reputable job and their sister was a teacher and they were very, very close and she developed severe carpal tunnel syndrome and had the operation on her wrists and she couldn't work. She was on pain pills. She loses. She couldn't continue her job winds, the being addicted to the pain pills. Then she does have any medical insurance coverage, one no health care and when you got high medical expenses in a kid to take care of- and you can't work in, your a woman is always something you can do. Well, you know
that's another debate, but I certainly agree with you that prostitution should be legalized in order to protect people, at the level that everyone else expects to be protected by the police and the matter of legalization? If you talk to marijuana legalised, they wanted to criminalize, and here it changes which most people never think up. That is if its yell, legal or illegal is no difference, because it still controlled by the politics, said the boy, certainly certainly those people with Ogilvy now, don't they, it would still be looking for a job outside of the establishment will say, but if it could streak decriminalised if they're unionized, if they have the same protection, I mean the fact that a woman can be beaten to a pulp and can can't go to the police since you just what were you do?
Well, I'm a prostitute. Well serves you right, what do you expect you wouldn't get, but in any other job I work at seven hundred and eleven I got beat to a pulp. What do you expect working in convenience store? No one would dare say that to you, the girl, just it is not too not argue the point, but at the same time you ve done you ve covered a lot of cases you written about a lot of murder trials and and murder victims. There is goodwill comes and there are, as you say, less important victims. It seemed for the public, the publication, everything else and real real key to the public and what Cal Walker? The homicide task force said there are people who believe as long as he's killing prostitutes were safe because he's not going to come, kill us that these people
Are buffers long as he's killing these girls on the street and here's another thing that will. Could these woman go to shelters? Could they go anywhere to be safe right? No, because up until will a certain point. In order for a woman to go to a shelter, she had to be drug free. Ok, if she wasn't drug free, they wouldn't take her in so you what you're doing is you're just putting the most vulnerable people. I mean the the police didn't want to use the term prostitutes or drug addicts. They'd always prefer the term people of high risk lifestyle, sure Anne it just put them out there like
wait for this guy. He knew who to get. He know we could get away with killing easier site that guy up in Canada, who bumped off what eighty women or something in the prostitutes themselves were going to the policing someone's killing killing us, though I do. You know they just didn't, leave damn sure there he had fifty for sure and- and this is really- and the thing is- is that the women that Yates were killing was killing. These thirteen all knew each other, the all round, the same little crew- they were all with the exception of a couple of them- were fairly scandals. The the little asian girl that was killed. Who actually the the button off of her blouse was the damning evidence, the corvette she was then to drugs, and she became a prostitute on some river patient ass. You like the job and you like the lifestyle over,
but it is our only sixteen is all too so it's it's. Many people would think that that wasn't really an adult decision I have a little bit more sympathy for us, but but uh you know it's. The strangest thing is some people certainly have there remind said she wasn't a drug addict. She told her that this is a very active. I liked the facts. I like the travel. I like the lifestyle and I'll be back in school. On September. I mean sure everybody's got there and people thought it first police said: well. Maybe it was her boyfriend. Maybe you know no he was devastated as anybody 'cause, it wasn't him. So what was tragic is this guy was driving a white corvette and he was stopped and pure
early through a legibility error. The officer wrote instead of Corvette, wrote, I believe Corvair Ann add slip through the cracks it wasn't until years later by that he'd say: hold the car, but they did find the car, and even though the carbon sold and cleaned up underneath the seat, they found the button the missing button and they found the dna. How well that? Very of that that asian girl Jennifer Joseph yeah yeah and so from there. They it was as if she came back from the grave to caps to catch her killer that just it was like something out of a movie interesting. No, how long did this man hunt approximately go for it years years, and that was one of the problems. Ah,
is that you know they had trouble getting funding because they hadn't caught the guy everything let's go into dead ends. There was one point where they really thought they had a lead, because the tie track next. Next to that, they've got tire bowls from you know whether dump sites right and they found the exact same brand attire moulds again when they got there, we got it and they ran the test. You know it was. It was around otherwise the hop eyes and then it reached a point where they had a meeting one day in the homicide task force. We all sat down and he thought you know. Maybe it's one of us made us one of the guys in this room.
And so they had, they took dna and everything from all the guys and a homicide task force incredible left because it was just I mean these guys are out of version just. That mean breakdowns over this I mean 'cause, they're living it, and it's just one. After now than the vagaries be periods of silence and the you know in one week, heavy and people that they thought it was there following to get Indian FM. It's not them. You know. Yeah, I found it interesting. They had you had so much You devoted so much of the book to the exhaustive leads that these guys pursued. You know they a different descriptions of vehicles. They had different, they had all kinds of leads that they pursue to the very very in conclusion, and you could see that sir only they had a lot of pressure to solve this case, but they had to take every lead seriously and then to its final conclusion: exhaust
that lead and then eliminate that suspects. It was incredible, incredible story about the detail cause of the investigation and and as you Know- and this is something that makes me nuts watching- fancy grace- which I do occasionally, religions believe by page Show- and I wrote about this in cold blood- another number one crime blog site and I had Erin Moriarty on my show- and we talked about this- I call it water cooler crime. You know, if there's an investigation in process right right, whether it's a missing kid killer on the loose to sit around and pontificate on? Who you think did it is such a waste of time for ratings because of its investigation in progress? The police are not releasing the important information as the important information going to help him catch the killer and they don't want the killer to know they have that information. So any
saying that they released for Nancy to talk about her Levi to talk about or you and I to talk about around the water. Cooler is useless and so for people consider sit around for an hour while I think so, and so did I think so, and so did it. That's what he had the situation that poor guy who killed himself after some talk, show accused him of being a child killer, and he had nothing to do with it sure you know, and then you gotta wonder: what's the culpability of media and that sort of thing I was on one of those shows and they asking about Caylee Anthony or something I said. I said the same thing I just said to you: you know if this investigation in process in progress and still looking for it, you know who I I don't have information to talk about it and if I did I wouldn't because then they killer would hear it now. Let's share it, must be rational. Here, let's take care of something we can do something about. You know. Well
It is, I think the thing is filled with authors like yourself. The terms that are investigative journalist take information, have sat through trials and actually, at the end of doing all your research and being involved completely. You actually understand how a trial is conducted and understand the process more completely than anyone else. That's just professionally. Looking at the news- and I find that a lot of these pundits on tv because they gotta do stuff all the time they specialized, they really dont, understand the law and the speculating is united. Listen to it too often 'cause, it's kind of ridiculous, because you can't really like you say you can't have any More information. That's already been released to speculate. Who did what or how they looked on Tv Europe cares me out at this. Does scare me about the thin discovery, for the sake of my probably is:
people who are so eager to say the minute someone's arrested or someones charged. It is in Stringham up Killam Hangame. You know his testicles, off whatever the guy has a guy woman, whatever hasn't even been to court, yet they could be innocent and just because someone is arrested doesn't mean they're guilty and this thing of assumption of guilt. I mean: where is the person supposed to get a fair trial anymore? It's difficult enough and here's something that most people never think up and I'm going to display. Surprise you one of the purposes this is never discussed. You'll love this one of the purposes of having registered sex offenders is so you've got some
to hang a case on when you can't solve it. That's your opinion right, that's a fact. I could name you a case, but someone might sue me. I don't know there is a case where there is a man in prison right now for life, who it is known by the detectives and by a very well known, forensic, I can recall by might have one blank we're gonna, the guy didn't, do it said to the protect to a detective in the city 'cause. I followed the case I went to when I said. According to the police, because this man, which is a registered sex offender and use immediately suspected him, you had him under surveillance. Twenty four slash, seven from this state
Is that correct said. Yes, I said it was also testified in court that the body of this child was moved on such and such should date approximately to this other location before it was found and his eyes is kind of reverted, and I said you know what I'm saying he couldn't have done it, because if he had done it, you would have seen it and his response was well at least weekly
the case. So I followed up on that and I went to the medical expert who had examined the body and spoke to him, and he said the child wasn't strangled. The child was molested. Everything. Medical about the child was indicative that the kid had been crying. The mother tried to silence the child with their hand over the kids mouth and accidentally suffocated her child not able to deal with that. She dumped get him reports that someone horrible did something to the kid and where is it? Well? The police didn't obviously the algorithm persons. Folks who didn't have all the information? Well,
so you will also get in situation with it. You know it's, it's tragic for people to stop and think about. 'cause there are so many wonderful police people out there and so many wonderful homeless, site investigators that you can get in situations where you have political pressure. You have social pressure. You've got a greeley good, viable candidate to have done job, and if you can close the case, you can close the case I'll give an example- and I know we're talking about body count, but I'll mention. I have a book called murder in the family living successfully prosecuted, Kribi Deanthony for the horrifying rape and murder of his own. At at her too lovely little children is a terrifying case demands of the monster. In my opinion, this tragic story. They almost didn't pursue him because upstairs in the same building was a fellow of the approximate age range,
who was a previous. It was a listed sex offender and they were ready to go gung HO laughter, this guy and he lives right upstairs. The only thing that stopped him was, it did happen. Fbi profiler, involved, Judson Ray, whose was involved, who said no. He fits everything that you're looking for, except whoever did this because of the way that people were strangled new them intimately and this guy, even though he lived upstairs, he did not know them intimately. If they would have focused all their attention on that guy, the real killer would have got away. Well, certainly, you also have those kinds of cases as well to where you have a a serial killer. Who much like Yates. Here it doesn't have any criminal background and when the police are looking for this uh
bags under weeding through a list as aspects because they don't a criminal record, be because they don't fit any kind of profile, though the last people exactly evaluation. You have here on something really on the bottom there, and this is the tragic thing when you're dealing with these gonna serial killers, apple last person, you'd ever think up and they went on tv, the robber Early Yeats was arrested and I confess to being the serial killer one. The women who knew him was sitting in the restaurant, and she saw him on tv she broke into tears. She knew him in fact. She liked him so much. She had fallen in love with him, oh wow, even had to taken him home to meet her family. She was a working lady, but she thought he was so wonderful.
And then there was the woman who was the survivor, who did not know that she had survived him until after you arrest. Yeah, no, if a little bit about that, he had picked up particular young lady. He dated almost every working girl spoke had from from what I understood. He didn't kill all of them. You noticed right. Sure, but he was dating her and it was always the same thing. She was performing oral sex on him and all, and but he wasn't responding well all of a sudden. She thinks that he's master over the head with something all of a sudden, whooshes gotta, bang it soon ahead. So she gets up and he wants his money back
She says: no, you know I was doing what I was hired to do and he's furious, and she runs away well about three months later she's in a car accident on the other side of the state and goes to the hospital they do X rays and the doctor says to wear. Are you aware of the fact you have bullet fragments in your skull actually with why, but an apparent you see what he would do is I don't know how sensitive your audience yes to this sort of thing, but if they listen to this kind of program and not too sensitive sure the woman will be performing oral sex on him and if, after seven minutes he didn't respond he would pull out a low caliber weapon, two thousand two hundred and twenty three twenty, four, whatever it was an in his right hand and place it directly behind what would be her left ear and pull the trigger
will apparently this pretty young lady's egd when's? He thought she was going to zag and the bullet instead of going into her skull grazed. It will, of course it hurt. She thought she'd been hit in the head and she went away so the bullet did not penetrate her skull, but it's fractured. Her bullet fragments in her hip well she saw his picture on tv. She realized that was the guy who hit me in the head, my god he didn't hit me. He shot Maine Kredible, but she is realize she was shot until until later, So she goes the court and that that lifting evidence that that's with fragment matches, the other guy you just a yellow. He did he didn't killer geometry, certainly had a headache so she had her come up and at court. Yeah well he's a he's imprisoned. Yeah
there are people I knew there was a one woman I interviewed is in the book that she was on the street and spa can choose a heroin addict, she got clean and then she fell back off the wagon. So you know a lot of these people. We're only working the street when they had two. There was a subtext in my book that you'll notice there is tored the end, there's a statement in my book. That makes no sense. I don't know if you come across it, but the statement where ice save and similar to the Linder case and there's no reference to the lender case in, but so you might well what the world is. Mr bear talking about the lender case. Right dad It was an editing error. They took out from the book an entire subtext of my book 'cause. I guess they took a distracted from the story. I thought it was important in nineteen
Whenever the Harrison ACT was passed, Harrison actually, but it was one thousand nine hundred and nineteen. Something like that Harrison ACT was a tax act one dollar a year, wholesale tax act on direct distributors, ok and people we're afraid at that time that it was going to interfere with them getting their drugs. In that time there was no to link between drugs and crime in America, and most of the drug addicts in America were other white women actually taking over the counter medications that had you know, addictive substances in them. And if you did have drug addiction, you simply much like enable you to spend your doctor. You doctor gave you what you you it all they have.
Griffin ACT was the one that dollar a year wholesale tax to make sure that distributors, the people, are actually writing prescriptions. Well, in Spokane WA the same sitting, there was a doctor Linder The collection of the revenue of the Harrison ACT was given to the Department of revenue they sent a woman to doctor lender who said my regular doctors out of town, I'm going through withdrawals. I I need some,
morphine, and I need some cocaine. So he legally wrote her a prescription for three morphine tablets and three cocaine tablets had her take one in the office and had her space them out until her regular doctor was back in town. That next thing he knows he's arrested and he is charged with some crime of giving these these drugs. He loses because the the docked, the judge, rather tells the jury. If you were to find the doctor, Linder prescribed his medications to relieve the pain of someone with stomach cancer. That's ok! But if you decide that he gave those medications,
alleviate the pain of her withdrawals. You must find him guilty. He was found guilty. He appealed it all the way to the Us Supreme Court and he won. The United States Supreme Court ruled that the federal government has no right to interfere in the doctors tree Montalba patient and has no right to say what a reasonable amount of addictive medication is and that he was perfectly within his meds all right to alleviate the pain and suffering of an addict by giving the attic what they needed the climate at that time was. Such a doctors were still afraid to do that, and so the doctors stopped treating their addicts when it was cheap, and so who moved moved in to do it, for them organized crime certainly happen and up until then, there it never been a link.
In crime and drugs in America. Well, Doctor Lindstrom was the medical examiner in Spokane at the time of this case, and he was arrested for an alleged impropriety with drug prescriptions, and so that's. Why are reference the lender case? Had it not been for the fall out of the lender case, you would not even have the subculture of ST prostitutes and illegal drugs that made his victims possible, certainly yeah. I can understand that subtext certainly, and they took all that out, except the one reference to Doctor Linder, what I'm the most overlooked Supreme Court decisions in american history. It is a very famous case without lender versus United States. Are us versus In any event, that was also in Spokane. Wa is very tragic. If we did not have
the you know, I had on my show the guy who is head of law enforcement against prohibition, and, as I said, if you just took all schedule, one drugs in America and made them schedule to the problem would be solved. Your write, a prescription, you get it you're done there. Cheap organised crime is out of it. The crime is out of it. The way you have, as is more money and corruption it out there weren't so much money in corruption and would still be there. It is, I think the thing is it is sometimes, if there's a combination of things, it's politically it, it would be a huge football to try to roll back drug laws or actually scale them back, even even to talk about testing. Mandatory minimums is politically suicidal, sometimes what I do agree view. The only way to solve the problem. It might seem absurd to some people, but many p. They ve been involved. With this plan
law enforcement enforcement. People have said you have to legalize all drugs. You have to take. Organised crime out of it as a man who is doing what is you have to be need to buy alcohol where you are eighteen years later, how old do you have to be to buy cocaine, sure any age in any age? who who's in charge of the quality of who is in charge of distribution the mob, and but it's not that way in other countries you know, and they don't have. Those problems I, like I say in America, didn't have the linkage between drugs and crime until the 1920s when it became illegal. It's just like prohibition, prohibition didn't work with Al Capone and it doesn't work with these guys either. It's just the corruption is so profit had norm, stamper former chief of police of Seattle on, and it will be the first to tell you. He says it's a waste of police resources.
It causes nothing but corruption, and you wouldn't have these I'm happy to say. However, you know when Robert Lee Yates, Spokane Killer was captured prior to that they did. Thank God establish a shelter for women where they could go. Where they didn't have to be cleaning silver in order to get in because all otherwise they were just sitting ducks form this out there you, like fish in a barrel, didn't have anywhere to go the minute he was captured. They want to close it. Fortunately, I think was volunteers for America came in and kept it open. Well, that's good! So very now that you you talked about the eight in the fifteen murders will. What was the deal? You say the plea bargain was was given up, but in the end, we're fifty fifty murder solve were the bodies to identify the real tragedy, one of them that envisaged in the book and poor.
Walker who spoke at homicide gas for just his stomach bank. With this you know they said well we're looking for the one you know we haven't found the haven't found the body tr Remember what her name is is at the very very end of the book, and it is ok I'll draw you a map. You know too. The body is right. The body was was at his home, very the riot window and they had ah they're doin that play
so part. They had a dog. They did everything he had brought her home as the ultimate trophy and buried her under her bed, his bedroom window, incredible, and so when they started following him in the car to find out where he took that body and they in Cal Walker told me when I realized we were going back to his house since I just got sick to my stomach. This is how could we you know how we must. Certainly she was it's just really really train and one thing they never did find out. They. Never.
After man, they never tell. I was thinking about this you'll, see other day of writing him a letter and ask him when he would shoot these women after the first time when he made the big mistake of using a three hundred and fifty seven right. Is it shoot him? An aide immediately put a paper towel over the wound right and then he put these paper bags over. They never could find where where the paper towels came from yeah. I found it interesting that that was part of their investigation. They tried to track down the origin of those data. Where is the paper towels? If you dislike buying him near the house or something you know what brand of paper towels they never could find out. What the hell kind of provide my language, which kind of paper teller, was that mean average bothered asking course once he confessed I will see about the other today, while all right, I'm alright. What can a paper over the cracks
and even the plastic bags they did an exhaustive investigation on where those bags might be and did some geographical sort of profile to say this is might be where he, where he, everywhere even able to take? Finally take the dna or whatever is off the bags I gotta go. I forgot so sorry for his wife. Can you imagine gathering data that woman was heard, what haven't pie in a restaurant and they came and you know I urge us about your husband and it got all Gaddafi's he's in trouble. I'll kill him and when they told her you know he's in trouble yeah they didn't want to come and take him away. You know in front of the kids and everything to the I know need to talk about the father supporting him despite the crimes, but basically we what was his demeanor in court? We only got about three minutes left, but what was it like in court? Did he, though
the killer. It was like he was angry when you get to aid, really read the people baby don't Linda? Maybe I'm sorry darling? I'm sorry, you know it's like. He wasn't sorry at all. He how, but of course I mean if the guy, if the guy is a Psycopath, they don't they. You know they don't have the emotion, they're missing the emotion, ship, sure and most of them could cry on cue 'cause, that's the one thing they can do, but they really are incapable of feeling remorse. I mean you get mad at him for killing, but you can't get mad at him for not feeling remorse during capable. No, I agree with you too, because they also they also they always ask. Well, you know, Jeez did the guy show any remorse? Well, if he showed any remorse, it would be dissin genuine anyway or advised by his lawyer, so I don't really put too much stock in some larger bars.
The only one I know of Caitlin Rother was a wonderful person. A wonderful author wrote the book body part the king has our next week he's I'm actually talking about the book. He I gave her my best regards. She'll tell you're the guy walks into a police stations is immaterial killer. Gub, you know, there's a I would remind you turn themselves in well. I know somebody that turn himself in, but there was no remorse, so you know that's, not always an indication either. So do you think I know he was doing something wrong with me: Bread curvy says: why do they do it? It's simple: they tried it. They lighted to did it again same as you go, the same. Chinese restaurant, you try it you'll like it. You do it again once you cross, said line between fantasy and doing it. You can't go back I mean you may fantasize about. You know, do in some sick once you ve done it. You ve done it now. When it comes to murder, there's no way you can take it back, you killed once what difference? Does it make? If you do it.
Sure what we just got a little bit of a few seconds left, we were talking about the bottom of the book body, count terrifying, true story of the Spokane, Serial killer, burly tell our body how they can contact. You have a great radio show on your website. Color our audience both when that is rife and bring real, really easy. You gotta outlaw crime or one outlaw crime, dot, com and you'll always get to do so. Whom I guess I got a man. The lamb coming up the sailor. Gonna have you on a couple weeks now raven We are aware of all the best people, including you gotta, outlaw crime, dot, com or borough, be U R. L B a r e r dot net can always get hold of me and a great thanks for so much rather beyond the survival of brilliant. I've asked well. Thank you very much. I know our audience appreciated and it has been a great pleasure for me to have you on the show Merla. Thank you very much for this interview. Ok back, say. I gave a format.
I will end you have yourself a very good evening, girl I'll get you do whether they take her. Even listen to the program. True murder, the most can kill, isn't true crime, history and the others that have written about them. With your house, dance, ASCII, goodnight. The Starlight lounge presents an evening with the Progressive Box here: let's you go tickling the ivory's he just saved by bundling home and auto, with progressive, going to finally buy a ring for that gal of yours. You go send him my condolences. I owe this nice tones for you too, there's a burglar in my heart. Thank you because, apparently, it's discounts on available in all states are situations, and now
I thought from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah. These be the cheetah and learn your animal, isn't the cheetah, but The far less appealing blood fish come on. To add insult to injury, you could have used those fifteen blobfish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you, fifteen percent or more on motorcycle insurance.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-05.