« True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers

A SPECIAL KIND OF EVIL-Blaine Pardoe and Victoria Hester

2017-07-26 | 🔗
The Colonial Parkway Murders –the name given eight murders that took place in the Tidewater region in the late 1980’s, two of which were on the historic Colonial Parkway, the nation’s narrowest National Park. Young people in the prime of their lives were the targets. But the pattern that stitched this special kind of evil together was more like a spider web of theory, intrigue, and mathematics. Then, mysteriously, the killing spree stopped. The nameless predator, or predators, who stalked the Colonial Parkway stepped back into the mists of time and disappeared. Now, father-daughter true crime authors Blaine Pardoe and Victoria Hester blow the dust off of these cases. Interviewing members of the families, friends, and members of law enforcement, they provide the first and most complete in-depth look at this string of horrific murders and disappearances. The author-investigators peel back the rumors and myths surrounding these crimes and provide new information never before revealed about the investigations. A SPECIAL KIND OF EVIL: The Colonial Parkway Serial Killings-Blaine Pardoe and Victoria Hester.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker Dgk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky good evening Colonial Parkway murders, the name given eight murders that took place in the tidewater region. The late 1980s, two of which
on the historic colonial Park way. The nation's narrowest national park, young people in the prime of their lives with the targets, but the pattern that stitch the special kind of evil together was more like a spider web of Sciri intrigue and mathematics. Then mysterious the the killing spree stopped the nameless, predator or predators we stock the Colonial Parkway step back into the mists of time and disappeared. Now, father daughter, true crime, authors, blame Pardo and Victoria Hester blow the dust off of these cases. Interviewing members of the families, friends and hours of law enforcement, they provide the first and most complete in depth. Look at the string of horrific murders and disappearances, the author investigators, peel back the rumors and
surrounding these crimes and provide new information. Never before revealed about the investigations. The book they were featuring this evening is a special kind of evil. The colonial parkway serial killings with my special guests, Blaine Pardoe, welcome to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview, Blaine Pardoe. Well, thank you for having me again Dan. I just want to explain that we originally had scheduled your daughter that the second part of your writing team victoria- Chester by due to other commitments. She can't make it today so you're going to take over the interview. I wanna ask him up to the expectations. I'm sure you can. Let's talk about what brought you Blaine and your daughter Victoria Hester to this story. How did you become and want to be interested in this story which
became a special kind of evil. Well, I was actually asked to do some articles, british real crime magazine that would that was out. I started looking at unsolved serial cases. I I tend to prefer the unsolved cases. To me. Those are intriguing and I've never really delved too much into serial killings. I ended up writing the article and in doing so I met the fate one of the family members brother of Kathy, Thomas Name is Bill, Thomas and bill. I just started talking every every other week or so a little bit about the case and the more I started looking into it. The more intriguing it got bill recommended some folks for us to talk to, one of which was Laree Mccann of the Virginia state police. Who actually was the founder. There behave Oral sciences, unit and Larry had work the case and my dog
and I went down and interviewed laree 'cause, we still weren't sure how all these cases were connected or if they were Where we really dealing with a serial killer or where we dealing with some crimes that look like they were somehow connect we spend the evening with Larry this wife in a restaurant which had to scare some of the patrons given some of the subject matter we covered, but it was fascinating stuff. Where we talk to somebody who does the the behavioral so
I'd of criminal investigations and how they develop their victimology and what they were looking at with that. So it was really an eye opener and when, when Larry was telling us was that his perceptions, at least when he had been working on these cases originally- and you know he he. He made a comment that just resonated with me at one point. He said the odds of these cases not being related. You have a budget, better odds of winning the lottery in these cases not being related and when he hit me with that. I I was like wow. This is this is a very powerful stuff, because we're we're dealing with is very much a a unsolved string of serial killings. And you know how they are going to be, how they are connected and, and what brings them together was and it was really kind of the the basics of the crimes themselves. You were dealing with.
We're dealing with pears couples that were killed you dealing with certain ways: the crime scene, they were staged certain things that were done to taunt the police. Through this a in the more we listen to it, the more we were pulled in and and where he started telling us. He said I think we're dealing with two killers. It and he laid out a very compelling case for it. I was totally enthralled by the end of the evening. We were Totally caught up I'll, never forget how Larry ended the evening he looked at me said unless, of course, I'm completely wrong. Maybe it's just one killer, because you always have to go where the evidence takes you, and so It was after I went through that. I was totally hooked in committed and thanks to some help with Bill Thomas, we were able to connect with all but one set of the families of the victims. Over the course of two years, we interviewed death
who we track down. Former members of law enforcement uh dealt with a lot of, interesting stuff on the web. That's out there and tried to dispel some of the myths and herb legends around these cases. And what we really came to realize was you know we were dealing with Virginia's oldest unsolved, serial killing spree and that these cases are actually solvable it still. Even though thirty here's a past, I'm a big proponent, to believe that cases like this can be closed. So for us this was an opportunity for the first time ever to provide the public with a comprehensive view of all of these. Killings, all of the suspects, all of the known evidence all the theories that law enforcement had floated and hopefully will generate some positive tips. We've uh.
We had a couple come in that we've passed to the authorities so so far the book, doing exactly what we wanted to talk and explain as you do, because this is very important: the Colonial Parkway itself. We talked about the Colonial Parkway, it's misleading in its name, but it's you say the nation's narrowest national park so tell us about the Colonial Parkway and where in Virginia it is clue, this is to what city are we talking to talking about and describe this area where this park is in some of the features of this colonial park, yeah I've driven the colonial Parkway. So many times before I did this book and didn't even think about it. Yeah it's a beautiful structure. That runs from Yorktown, where the British surrendered to the Americans through Williams, Berg and out to historic, Jamestown, it's the nation's longest narrowest Nasha,
call Park. It's a very narrow strip of road. The road has been recreated so that it's more like a rough rd you might have driven during colonial times. They have literally taken effort so that you don't see signs of anything modern from the road there's very few access points to get on to or off of the road, even fewer at night gates to it or closed it's a major thoroughfare, but it's long and wide the it's kind of a tunnel through the trees crosses several creeks and swamps, but it's very dark very secluded. It is it's really after after hope. This book you keen to we came to the realization, as we were went out to some of the crime scenes that you know in many respects it was the perfect place to commit these types of crimes. You
you're limited by the number of people that might see you, the Killeen itself, your our ability to escape and this kill It was all about control and controlling his victims and two of two of the crimes. Place or had connections to the colonial Parkway. The other two took place with in short driving distance away when an off of i64, and you can count
in Virginia and the other end Isle of Wight County at the ragged island wildlife refuge right now. This begins. This tragic tale begins October, ninth, one thousand nine hundred and eighty six with the disappearance of Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski. And as you do you go into the history of these young. Ladies, an you talk about Kathleen's, Father, Frederick and her mother, Evelyn and Irish catholic upbringing tell us about Kathy. She was born in nineteen, fifty nine and what was she like and what was their early life characterized by you know in many respects, I'd like to think Kathy Thomas could have been played by Katherine Hepburn and another era. She was a fiery individual. She broke new ground
she was in the second class of women to graduate from the United States Naval Academy, which was remarkable. You 1980s yeah, we forget what it was. Like for women in military service Kathy was It was a trailblazer in that respect. You know she was successful in everything she seem to do in life that there was no one. We we talk to amongst her circle of friends, debt had anything negative to say about Cathy. She, she was just that energetic vibrant person. That kind of what was the person that held together her her her clique of friends and and was kind of that corners,
and for all of them she was fantastic. As human being, she went on to become a stockbroker. She left the Navy, mostly L. A lot of it was tied to the fact that the Navy, at the at that time, didn't have don't ask don't tell Kathy was homosexual and at that time. That was considered a major security risk and was grounds for dishonorable discharge. Kathy had had some clashes with naval investigative service. Ncis now is what surf to, but she had some clashes with them all around the US, and she just opted to step away from that life. You know that she had kind of dream does, because not only because of that, but because she couldn't survive a combat vessel. She was that kind of person, though, and she went out to be a.
Stockbroker and was very successful one of the top stock brokers in a matter of a short period of months. So she just brought that kind of energe with her everywhere. She went now tell us about her Navy Karere, because you talk about the Navy and again this is surprising, even though I've lived through this time that surprising, given what's going on today in the development in things like that issues in society, uh What was tell us about the investigation by the Navy into copies in Navy seemed to from the records we were able to obtain through a freedom of Information ACT, request The navy seems to have a small group of investigators that that's what they focused on was was the
Anyone that was involved with the homosexual lifestyle, the fear being that that might compromise them from a security perspective that that there was something they could be blackmailed over, which you, we simply didn't, have any instances of that, but that was the Thinking at the time, you know a lot of the females went through the Naval Academy didn't stay for very long careers during that period. Because of that, you know there was kind of a hounding mentality within the navy to go after These career women. There was a lot of resistance that, quite frankly, you know people don't understand today, but but it was, it was a permeable thing and for Kathy, I, I think that was a real struggle. They brought her in the accused, her of stuff simply because they allegedly had seen
add a known gay bar. She denied it. According to the records I've seen she denied having gone there. I don't know if she did or not. I I've talked to her friends and she did frequent that bar, but whether that swear. Ncis is actually seen her or not. She was, She was defiant, and that basically said through the interview and when done sad, an officer in the United States Navy, and you don't have to put up with this. You know if you've got cha, if you want to file Filem, if you don't alright, we're done, and it was incredible, it was just it was it's a testimony to her spirit and her commitment to stay in the service that being given, she finally decides to leave, and you talk about her having a friend girlfriend Jolene Shyra, an their relationship,
doesn't work will pan out, but there's no bad blood at all. Between them and Jolene introduces Kathy to a woman named Rebecca Dowski, Becky Dowski. Was born in one thousand nine hundred and sixty five. So a little bit so a little bit younger order me a little bit older mobile junker. She was. You know, Becky Dowski was she came from a very successful family in Poughkeepsie, New York she had gone to school in Europe. You know, if you think about that's, why those things that you know it is in many respects. It's almost like. She was cast in the nineteen eighties movie of some sort She was very energetic, worked with children and was just one of those people that she was vibrant and real Enthusia, stick and really trying to focus on her career. She
had been going to another college upstate in New York or in that in the ne, and had transferred down to the College of William and Mary that go ahead and pursue her business degree. Your father was very successful executive at IBM, as was her brother Yeah they just she had everything going for her known prayer. Tickle Joker in the dorms. Very energetic in many respects kind of the kind of person you would expect Kathy Thomas to be with one who is who is equally as vibrant and and charming and and vigorous and then when their approach to life, so it was for her
in many respects the they were great combination together, despite the fact that you know Kathy was several years older than her. You also talk about the the physical appearance of both of them and terms of they were both athletic and both enjoyed sports, and this will be important later, as our audience will find out. Tell us this little bit about that a lot of all of a sudden, a weather system and just how good a shape these two women were. Yeah. These were not shirking violence. That's for sure, if Kathy Thomas had had take martial arts training she participated in field track events? She was, play basketball. She was very athletic as well. Your back udowsky. She played so
football. She played on League in Europe and got to travel across Europe while doing that, while in school both of these women were very athletic and very physically fit, so you know When it came to to the evening that they were murdered, that definitely was was a factor, because there's evidence that at least at the Party Kathy Thomas, the that there was a fight that there was resistance to the to the killer or killers that came after her now tell us about the events just fire to this disappearance and who witnesses, who of among our friends, see her and what do they notice of anything amiss? You know. No one saw anything amiss that they were
working on a computer program at the College of William and Mary you gotta remember. This is back in the day when, if you wanted to print something you had to go to another building to go get to the printer turn it out. You know it's back when you're dealing more with working with terminals and anything else they there was some friends in their inner circle, working on a computer project Kathy Thomas her schedule is more flexible, being a stockbroker about when she went into work with down he was planning on going back to see her family. She had packed her car her car was loaded up. With close, she had made arrangements to stop off at Dickinson where she had been going to school to meet with one of her roommates op on the way back home. So this whatever
happened, happened the night that they disappeared. You know, but it was went out. Apparently they were seen last on campus. There been unconfirmed reports over the years that they were seen at a bar in Yorktown, but they went out apparently to eat or or to be spend some time with each other and they disappeared and quite literally, they disappeared throughout the weekend, and I wasn't until seven.
He is later that their vehicle was found, and- and that's when you know, for the first time, the community in the tidewater region realize that they they had murders on their hands. No just tell us the situation that a jogger finds the up this car and the bodies eventually are discovered so tell us what police find and what happens with this crime scene. Tell us about these of sense. Once on October, twelve they're found on the Colonial parkway I'm happy to do that. You have to picture the colonial parkway. Is this tunnel through the trees along the edge of the York River and every so often every milers, so there's a pull off and it's a little half moon, pull off that you can pull your vehicle off and take in a beautiful view of the York River. As you work your way towards Williams
Berg from Yorktown, they were at around kilometre marker, nine point, five or so their view. Michael had a jogger was, was going through the area and notice that their car had appear only driven off or have been pushed off the parking area straight towards the river. It was literally nose down on the riverbank. The riverbank was a good twelve to fifteen foot drop and the car was straight down so that after reported it to the National Park Service, the park Rangers showed up. Their belief was that somebody had been drinking and had just driven into the river. Unfortunately, as a result of that they smashed the back window of the vehicle, we don't know if the obscured any of the
killers, fingerprints in doing so, etc when they shattered the back window. They realized that one person was in the far back of the head, back and the other was in the back seat of the of the Honda Civic and no one was sitting up front. The car had been doused, the interior of it have been doused with diesel fuel at that point they realized that they weren't dealing with you simple road accident or a drunk driving incident that something else was severely it man a mess in this vehicle. There was a there was blood and body fluids and things along those lines. So at that point the age, the authorities and because it's a national park, the FBI he actually has jurisdiction over that. So the FBI became the primary investigational group with that
He was looking at the crime scene area. Unfortunately, they of being park rangers they're, not really trained on preservation of crime. Scenes got to be reminded for one thousand nine hundred and eighty six as well. So a lot of the things we take for granted they didn't do, but they did find several cigarettes and matches where someone had been apparently trying to light the diesel fuel to dispose of the body and apparently it tried to push the vehicle over the edge into the York River would most like hoping that it would drift out in out to the yeah at Lantic that didn't happen, because vehicle got caught up in the brush and
never made it all the way into the river. Now you say that they had been strangled and there was knife wounds on one on the thumb of Kathy and Rebecca, had cuts on her thigh, so tell us what else police could determine even from this contaminated compromised crime scene. Well, it was evident that they had been choked and strangled and in Kathy's here during their autopsy they found a small segment of nautical line, nylon line. I am Esteban cut, loose or cut off. Well, when they cut the rope that was that they were choked with both women has received yeah, I they had their throats cut. Cappies was so severe that it was almost a decaf
but Asia. So wherever the crime had actually taken place, there wasn't any real evidence that the murder had taken place where the bodies were it may have taken place somewhere else. The bodies may have been placed in the back of the vehicle and the killer, drove them to the Colonial Parkway. Clearly from the placement of the raising the vehicles. That makes sense, but there was a small knife wound. I'm Cathy's left thumb which is an indication that, at least from from the officers I've spoken to the Kathy, put up a fight and that that doesn't surprise me at all given her personality. But she had had clearly been
an injured prior to this, and they were bruising on the victims as well. So you know it was clear that they had struggled with whoever their killer or killers were prior to all of this. But if you think about what we're talking about here, you've got a killer that went with strangulation, then went the extra step to cut their throats most violently, especially in the case of Kathy, tried to burn the vehicle to destroy the evidence and when that didn't work tried to push the vehicle into the river in hopes that the river would destroy the evidence. So this is a killer that that dealt with several different ways of not only trying to kill the victims but trying to dispose of the bodies. It is interesting in its strike struck me as most interesting that the effort that this killer, who was supposedly unknown
went to hide his crime after the fact, which is unusual, the attempted burning, then, when that didn't work to put the car into the river. I want to ask if the police found any signs of sexual assault and what about any, robbery motive possibility. No other persons were in the vehicle uh. There was no sign of robbery. There was no no sign of sexual assault on either victim as well. In many respects, it didn't make a lot of sense. I talked with a few people. It was interesting how they kind of described the colonial parkway. You said you know during the daytime, it's a tourist road, but at night it becomes a very different culture. There was a lot of homosexual activity very
This place is on the road. It was a place where people went to party because it was isolated. The patrols were almost nonexistent by the park service after hours very light, trolls, if any, so it was kind of a completely different wild culture that took place there. A broadly enough. No one seemed to know that this had happened. No one had seen anybody trying to like the via on fire. No one had seen anyone trying to push the car over the edge, no one in any of the other pull off areas, and some of them are much more isolated than the one that Kathy and Becky were found at, but no one seemed to She anything that is the indicated that that was taking place elsewhere and that debt Lynn, you to believe that they were killed somewhere else and then blocked there, but it
it's. Whoever the killer was, if he were working alone. He had a long walk to get out of the Colonial Parkway park to get to wherever his vehicle was it just some this just doesn't add up and whoever the killer was they were carrying up, nautical line with them. They were caring. Diesel fuel with this was, I don't want to see a murder kit, but it, was a. There were a lot of things either readily
be available in their vehicle that they could use, or they brought these things with them in preparation, which is even creepier. Now one of the things that happened was that they discovered her wallet. Kathy's wallet was out. What did they speculate or what do they think that indicated to them in terms of the perpetrator addressing or confronting the two? women. Well, it is that's a great point. It you'll see what the colonial Parkway murders, there's almost a running theme of wallets being out glove boxes being opened. This type of and the thought is that someone approached them either as an authority. Year or impersonating, an authority figure,
so the reason you might open your wallet is to take out your drivers license to show it to an approaching policeman and that may be how the killer or killers got control of their victims was that in person nation of a law enforcement officer. In that Bk that that, even to this day has been kind of an on going theme with these. These murders that It seems to most people that in many respects, a law enforcement person is a very logical person or someone impersonating, a law enforcement person, yeah bear mine, and if you're
worked in the dark making out somebody shining a flashlight in your window. Your assumption might be that it's it's a cop, not a killer. Yeah. Now, with this is well, the police have not much to go on aids again, they are a victim for better term of the time and what? How society feels about certain things. So, just as there was an investigation into whether Kathy was going to a homosexual bar at times and when she was not. Working in the Navy, what do the police thank and when and where it at least a they go for a while in terms of their suspicions? You know and again. This is the thinking of the FBI in the men in black days, where they're all wearing black suits they're, all men, YO crew cuts, etc. Their first inclination
it was because of the sheer violence perpetrated on these victims. There thought was, it had to have been somebody that knew them, so their thoughts turn to Kathy Circle of friends, and they believed it could have been one of Kathleen's friends who may have felt jilted by the fact that kathleen- and it had was dating Rebecca, so naturally, they're focused turned to Jolene Shura yeah. It was completely misguided. It and you know the FBI kind of bye, only their way through the the entire way that they handled Cathy Circle of friends, working on the theory that this was somebody you know that was jealous and simply striking. Now that Kathy and Becky there really wasn't anything, never support that, and it didn't make a lot of sense,
given the Jolene, had actually introduced Becky too Kathy and they were still very close friends. If you look at it through today's lens, it makes zero. So sad. So if you look at through one thousand nine hundred and eighty six lens, I can see why they did what they did and why they focused on that initially, but it really didn't add up these weren't violent people, these weren't people that were prone to this. They were very close and very tight knit and it really tore apart Kathy Circle.
Friends, because you have the some of them cooperate with the F b I's some resisted because they felt that they were being accused of being you know the killer and it just it really tore apart that entire circle of friends, it was really quite sad now we can focus too much time on this, because we have these other cases to deal with. But what we'll do is try to compress the
it's a little bit in terms of the the way the FBI looked at this. They had a waterman theory in that they believe that there was nautical line and Kathy's hair and that they theorized that there was boats run on diesel and at the diesel, feel that these would have people would have had one not necessarily brought to the crime itself, but actually they just happen to have it and they talked about the sharp knives used to almost decapitate Kathy and- and so they talked about what those are the kinds of knives that the fishermen would have now at the same time, as you do these are. These are all good. Suspects are good theories that the F b- I brings the p s. U units of behavioral science unit into for this, and so it becomes a focus on person named Clyde G was which one of the first responders, and also they look at Becky's Ex boyfriend of five
who, who is from the United Arab Emirates, where, as you as you state and people, will know, there's a culture intolerant of homosexuality and he may have felt it felt jilted by Miss Taos Ski. So, let's talk about how the police not so quickly go through these people. And, as a result, so the case goes cold. The is really one It wasn't until really the the third set of of murders, which also was tied to the colonial Parkway that they really found a potential suspect in The case the person really look good fit the profile of someone who is macho someone prone to violence. They were so
vicious that he had even spotted their surveillance of him. He was caught cleaning out. His truck hosing, it often using bleach on it, and they were worried that that maybe destroying evidence they brought in their top polygrapher. I mean this is a person that did some of their top spy cases for the FBI, in terms of graphing they bought this person in, and then they cleared up just the person. While he was creepy. While he had been caught stocking, people on the parkway. You know coming up on them while they were parked, etc, fit the profile file, is the Waterman in every way, shape and form it just didn't pan out Farook, but who was Becky's Boyfriend was in wash in DC at the time and had an alibi. So you know, while it's only two one, slash two three hours
there's away by road trip it he had somewhat of a alibi to that so every ave is the law enforcement seemed to go down there. Just ran into a brick wall. This wasn't this wasn't somebody that seemed to have a connection to these victims or if they did have a connection. It wasn't blatantly obvious at the time. Let's move to the next pair of victims, which is David, Nob Ling, who is twenty years old at the time and his friend while he just met that day. Let's tell us about what happens on September 20th, one thousand nine hundred and eighty seven concerning David,
doubling and how he meets this up. Young lady to becomes a victim. Well, Robin David, not avoiding, was was asked to drive his cousin and his cousin's friend, Robin Edwards was fourteen years old. Take them out on a date. He buys brother, along with them, took his truck. They went out, he was, and had no prior can actions to Robin Edwards took him to an arcade. It was raining on the way home, so the young boy, he said well will ride in the back of the truck is when you could do that and they had Robin right up front. Her David were only together for twenty minutes, somehow they had made a connection in these pre cellphone days, to get back together that evening, whether it was
just go out and talk or for any other reason, the young people get together. We don't know, but they somehow all in after midnight got back together. David went and picked her up. And David's truck is found the next morning ragged island refuge and it's clear that the vehicle, at least to the family members, it was very clear at the vehicle- wasn't left in the way it was normally left, David, usually backed into a parking space. It was found with the door open. The radio on the keys turned to the accessory position and there they were missing and unfortunately, the search for their bodies was so horribly botched breaded. Island refuge is right on the James River. Another jogger
Two days later is out jogging on the beach and finds Robin's body, and they find a David's. Just a few yards further down police had done such a bad job of searching. They never found their bodies and as such, but I'm sure some vital evidence was LOS. They had both been shot. David had been shot. Once in the shoulder upward angle from behind and one shot execution style to the head I've been had been shot once execution style to the head, so the key. Where has changed weapons or had used the weapon that he had used? getting control in DAO Ski Thomas, it was forced to use it in this case now soon the the
The family is not only shocked by the disappearance of them, but they soon piece together. What must have happened when does this piecing together happen? Is it very very close to when the bodies were discovered, tell us about this whole horrify in the event for the families when they do find out how they find out? Oh, it's absolutely heart wrenching to talk to the families about this, though believed Robin Hood Runaway Robin, had a past history of running away. She was away child and necessary in a bad way, but she ran with a tough crowd and she had lived far beyond her fourteen years of life. She had. She had spent some time on the streets, etc, but she'd always come back and her her family, this She had run away. They just filmed a piece with the local news saying you know,
If you see Robin, please have her come home or tell us where she's at the Nab Ling fan. I was very worried because they knew David's truck. Was there? but they didn't know where he was his father is out there at the time actually doing his own search at ragged island when the bodies were found. So that gives you an idea of how thorough Orun thorough the police search had been at the time and both Emily is really found out. They were watching the news in and the television news broke the story that that their bodies had been found with each other, which is just it's a horrible way for family members to have been informed of the US. It's just yeah, but this
was it in that that era, where the news media immediately tried to cover these stories and- and a lot of thought was given to the victims, families and did they get and form so for both families. It was just heart wrenching and suddenly these two families that really didn't know each other. You are kind of thrust together, because they're both saw, bring similar losses. You know at the same time, tide to the same crimes now tell us about the contamination of this crime scene and the DNA Ann and tell us what the condition of that Robin was. Was she sexually assaulted and what did police leave Robin Hood had signs, anal intercourse.
And there was some dna recovered. I don't have the exact details on that. We weren't given full access to the crime scene reports, but I've gotten this from some of the investigators We interviewed yeah, unfortunately, they're Bre mind they were out of the elements during rainstorms except try and may have been in the river. We don't now for several days here. So you have. The amount of contamination was was horrible, the the things that they could have gathered from the if its truck, unfortunately were lost as well? The and fingerprinted David struck at one point, and then they told it to his father's place, not realizing they were dealing with the murder scene. They just thought they were dealing with yeah David. It disappeared for some reason and they didn't suspect of my burger until they found the bodies. It David's father even told us that he went out in the front yard and he found some of the fingerprint cards that the police had
I'm the ground near the vehicle. You had to call them up and and give the fingerprint cards back to him so that the whole way it was here build, was slipshod, porn, Vesti, Geisha and you know it, but no one knew that they were dealing in fairness with the murder. At that point, they should of used a lot more discretion and a lot more caution. David's truck when I found interesting was talking with his brother Michael was you have divided wired, his truck so that you could turn on the radio without putting the keys in the ignition it directly wired at whoever left the truck left? It forward parked in door open had turned the keys to accessory and turned on the radio and left the keys, obviously in the vehicle that wasn't David would have left the truck he locked that truck, even if he went into a seven hundred and eleven he locked his truck. He wouldn't have left the door open. He.
Definitely wouldn't have turned the keys to accessory to turn on the radio because he knew so he didn't have to do that. All he had to do is turn on the radio, so it is a clear staging of David's vehicle, it's as if the killer wanted someone to come by, find the vehicle and take off with it, because that would mislead the investigators even further right. What about David's wallet? Where was it and what What did they find? Well? David's wall was out in the vehicle and you money was in the wallet that this was not a? This wasn't robbery in it in and also didn't make a lot of sense are also. There was a lot of clothing in the vehicle into shoes, etc. Is that
at ragged island. You know you wouldn't necessarily take off your shoes. If you were going to go, take a romantic walk on the beach which you can do from there. And at night time it would have been impossible even see where you're going it just a lot. This didn't add up it and it just feels like the the Gators in the aisle, Light Sheriff's department, who was there first really didn't treat this as the proper kind of crime scene that they should and they ended up, bringing the truck back out to the crime scene to take pictures of where it was found, etc, as it was found, but yet all of that just simply re contaminates the crime scene over and over again now
In terms of everybody that was spoken to like his brother, David's, brother and family, was this the kind of guy that would comply to give up his truck or to go anywhere to March him into the swamp? Is this the kind of person that would go along with that without a fight, and what now include again now you know it was interesting and talking David's, mother communicated with me several times during this in Victoria to our day it was a fighter. A David was a it delivers, most protective of that truck a was his pride and joy. He'd love that track David was the kind of person that would have struggled with his assailants now. I don't necessarily agree with with the theory that the the state police have put forward, but their thinking was that at some point they were taken either very
lived down to where their bodies were found, I'm not necessarily convinced to that that Robin was shot first and that David made a break for it and was shot the shoulder and then finished off with a shot to the head. The reality of situation. We don't know what happened. We don't know if they were killed there or if they were killed immediately on the pathway leading to the James River. There's parts of that that just don't add up the state police when they did their investigation,
this. They believe this was a drug deal. That became a rape that was very much out of control and they have a suspect whose last name was Washington, that they considered a very viable suspect in all of this, but they've never been able to really prove it, and that was you again. They weren't looking at this at this point, is being connected to the first set of murders. So from their perspective, if you work one case, you solve one case and if it happens to solve others that that's the way to approach it and that's not a bad investigative approach. Unfortunately, the theories that they went down really just had more innuendo and circumstantial evidence that anything tangible We didn't have a solid witness.
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When we last spoke, we saw that there was no connection or the least known was looking at a connection between these two pairs of murders. Again this case goes cold. There's a contamination of the crime scene are there are theories, tell us what happens next in terms of murders well II, the next, so the murders take place a year later, and it's two young people who are going to Christopher Newport, which is at the top when at the time was community college. Now to university, the award he's call and cassander Haley. He had been involved in a very long term relationship with his high school sweetheart. They were just on a break. She was going to visit some friends in college, the and
he was going the to to go out on his own just a little bit. He had set up the first date with Cassandra with the intent to have her back by two. Am they went to a movie? They went to a college party right off campus. You know so much emphasis is been put on this party over the years, but in reality they barely spent any time together. Keith was pining for his girlfriend, at least to some of the written accounts, I've seen from people that were there and people we've interviewed who were there? You know Keith, wasn't lovey dovey with and Ryan Cassandra is there meeting her ex boyfriend and they left together little bit before the curve, Few times that he had planned to have the founder home and they disappeared. Now they never
her made it to her house the next morning, Keith's father on his way to working at the Anheuser Busch Brewery, Ann Williams, Berg, Sachith scar on the colonial Parkway, less than a mile from where Kathy Thomas is civic had been. He looked in the vehicle didn't see anything entirely amid see assumed his son had pulled over for some reason he went on to work an it, isn't until later that when Cassandra's family didn't show up in I'm at the park rangers found the vehicle they had found the vehicle really before Keith Spa. Other, and it pulled out all of the things out I, the interior of the vehicle, all the clothing etc.
Their clothes were all in the vehicle and they had gone an contacted Cassandra Haley thinking they hadn't abandoned vehicle. They called her family and found out she had been home. Ultimately, it was the news media that finally figured before the park service before anyone else that these crimes were connected. They swarmed on the parkway further contaminating the crime scene, adding to that the park rangers in some vain effort to put the car back the way it was took everything that they had taken out of the car and put it back. In the car as close as possible to how they remembered it being there, which means, of course, they re contaminated. The crime scene
and the media was all over the place. The park rangers didn't even bother to call the FBI at this point. They concocted really when I could only call a her brain scenario that these kids early April had gone skinny dipping in forty the weather in the York River, the fee families didn't buy that, but it ran with the media for awhile. It really was, until the next morning, the F b I found out about this on public radio broadcast and made their way out to the crime scene, which at that point would have been terribly contaminated and they never did fine keys and cause side or even to this day, the presumption was that they were killed. The FBI and state police of always kind of focused and
Parkway itself, but there's actually no evidence of the fact that they were ever there on the parkway, though Keith vehicle was there the door, it was left, ajar keys were left in Plainview. Swallow. It was out Glove Box Open, so yeah, it again looks like somebody like an authority figure may have approached him. There was empty beer cans in the back seat, which prob probably were from from the killers. Perhaps you know sitting back there having them drive somewhere, but both Keith and Cassandra in our research of them talking to their friends and their family they in like going to the park way, they hadn't been romantically involved at all during the evening. Cassandra unlike the parkway at all, if they were going to go to do what young kids do after a party- and I think that's a huge stretch with this couple.
You know the parkway would have been the last place. They would have gone. It was actually passed Cassandra's house, so whatever happened happened somewhere between the party at Christopher Newport and Cassandra's house. That's where they were intercepted by their killer or killers, and that's where, where they were, did the fact that the killer left the vehicle staged on the parkway I was really. You know that was when they start did realize. At that point, we're dealing with somebody who's, killing pairs of people, an. It's tide to the parkway, and that was when the first connections really took place to what had happened out atragon island- and you also say that now police are not acknowledging connection, but the FBI acknowledge it connection, say ten
days later, so what they did and eventually the Virginia State Police did as well. That's when Larry Mccann got involved in, and he said you can't separate these crimes at all they're very much connected now with that. What do they do? With that connection, and then tell us what happens on april- ninth one thousand nine hundred and eighty eight in the media. What do they report uh at Well to to go to your connection piece what they did was initially once the police realized there were as a connection. There was a lot of public outcry for ok, we must have somebody who's out killing these people as a serial killer,
eventually the state police and the FBI would form a a task force, but it was more of a task force in name only. They shared information with each other more than anything and tried to court create some of their efforts? They didn't pull in all the other law enforcement agencies that had experience in this area had contacts in this area, etc. On top this while they were conducting searches in York, river yell. Looking for, do you think a Sandra? What do you know who it had had to have been naked at the time their clothing was in the vehicle. What they did find was the body of someone else floating in the York River. They reside that person who would jump ship from one of the naval base at the naval base. That's there and had jumped
apparently off the ship and had drowned in the river, and so it's one of those weird circumstances where you're looking for to body Can you find a body, but it's not either one of the So is that you're? Looking for incredible, oh yeah, this case, these cases are nothing but a series of twists and turns as you go through them. You also talk about just the basic profiling on a basic profile, but the profiling that was done at that time. That was again, you talk about criminal profiling still in its infancy at that time, but they do do profiles and what do they see in terms of or what do they? clued in terms of this dominant submissive do all three well, yes, it is the at the time. The belief was that you had to have two people that to take control of the situation. As I said before this killers, all about control
this part. This is a person that has to exert some degree of control over these people to be able to do this. The belief is that you have two individuals in most of the serial killing cases where you have pair of killers. You have one that's very dominant and you have one that's very submissive. They won't work independently. This missing person obviously isn't going to go out and commit a murder on their own. The dominant person wants that submissive give partner with him to be able to do this and they really kind of focused for awhile on it had to be two people to do this now, the counter to that is, you know it's harder to keep that a secret. Yeah in anytime you break up the pair
it in any way shape or form of one of them dies if one goes to prison or whatever the motors would stop, and they in. In these cases it did after the next set of murders, by that the real We focused on looking for a pair and looking looking for two people, and there were plenty of characters, in the tidewater area that that kind of emerge in this you know, you've got one guy that went to police who was from New Zealand's names are on little. He came forward and said told the press that he was being considered a suspect in these cases why some and would do that. I have no idea. He ran with a person by the name of Steve Blackman who is a defrocked police officer at in in Gloucester, county and yell was a call was concerned, a corrupt police officer who would eventually go on deck to kill.
Well, someone in a drug induced rage down in South Carolina. You know there were plenty of Krooked police officers in that area and a lot of strange characters that kind of insert themselves into this. These cases as time goes on because black men was a cop, their theory about somebody of authority being able to gain control over these people. But you also include very interestingly that that Steve Blackman's father was also fire from the police service as well. So I almost I just start thinking of revenge in turns over and hatred of police and then all let it run little as you talk about really was taunting police and really was arrogant and made statements that the police were inept and stupid. Basically yeah I've never been able to fully figure out what his thinking was and going to the police and then
telling the media that he was considered a suspect. In the case I don't know if he was craving the attention. For some reason, I don't know if he thought it would benefit him in some way. It is just not the and behavior that we can identify with but yeah he he ran with a shady group of people at the time and
There's a lot of a lot of calls me and we've had some calls. Even after the book came out about potential corruption in the Gloucester County, police depart Police Department, our sheriff's department, actually over the years at the end, there's just it's been a steady stream of that. But it's it's kind of a big stretch between a bunch of bad cops were acting like thugs and be being serial killers. She now and and there's just never been anything that tangibly link those people. You know to these crimes other than the city potential, profile of of well. The workers were law enforcement. They had access to the documents of of this and they were galley out of the office may be, and that kind of work to their advantage. But if you
going to do that, you have to take a look at a lot of potentially corrupt police officers at that time period. So what police, like you say, don't make much of this mister little and his partner, but tell us what just throw into config the entire investigation he talks about a Brian pet Injure and Laura Ann Powell. Just tell us briefly what that connection was in his mind, and well there's no way to avoid pet in Jerome Powells cases when this happened. These are two people that in the same general time frame were killed, in the tide, water region under mysterious, mysterious circumstances? In the case you know
one of the cases individual had direct connections with with RON little. But you know, police have pretty much exhausted that one that is he had been killed by another man? You know that individual killed himself and left rather cryptic message that he was you know, they'll never be able to prove it type thing. You know. Whatever there a queue We have done never be able to prove it. In the case of Miss Powell, she was most likely killed by her boyfriend. He was found with blood her blood on his clothing in his vehicle. So those cases tend to get pulled into the colonial parkway murders, but when you pee
call them back and we were forced to kind of do this. So it's very hard to say that these were tide directly to these cases. I'm not going to rule it out. 'cause we haven't had an arrest yet, and we may find that they are indeed connected my own gut instinct is just because they were people that were killed. They weren't killed together. There wasn't staging of the vehicles there wasn't that all the things What kind of tie in the colonial parkway murders together? We don't see that with Pat Injun,
hi all, but I run little claims that you know he had some intimate knowledge of those cases as well, and that certainly adds to some of the quirkiness of him are merging and and self confessing to the media that he was a suspect. Now in terms of suspects. There are so again the police have to investigate every lead in every potential suspect. Tell us about any other suspects that come as a result after this. Well, you know there were and uh sure that emerged over the years and we haven't even gotten to the last murders. But you know there's a couple of now there was definitely there was a gentleman that was at ragged island, apparently the night, for example, of the murders he who is broad in an polygraphed. He claimed that he had
stolen Davids while add or taken money out of David's wallet yeah. He failed his polygraph. He certainly looked like a good candidate. He ended up killing him so both as well there's a lot of kind of shady characters that come up as actually a little bit later on with the emergence of Fred Atwell, which is really, after the third set of murders, that Fred kind of emerges as a character in all of this and becomes very intertwined with what's going on with the colonial Parkway murders before we talk about Fred just talk about, as you mention the Anna Marie Phelps and Daniel lawyer, and tell us about the circumstances where they disappear and they're found six weeks later you, this one is tugs at me as much as Keith and Cassandra's in many respects, yeah
Daniel Lauer's brother was low, hang out at the beach with Anna Maria Phelps They were from Amelia County, which is outside of Richmond. They were having some tough economic times, kind of Jack and Diane situation did convey. Daniel Lauer Ann Labor, day weekend to move in with his brother and his girlfriend. He was driving back to get, it is clothing, etc, and Anna Maria rode, with him as a chance to see your family for awhile. He packed and you know, ride back. They were heading back e on. I sixty four on their way from Richmond to Virginia Beach. Their vehicle was seen at the rest area heading
found on I sixty four, but the next morning it was found in the westbound rest area. A roach clip was hanging from the half opened driver Side Window Glove Box was opened, the keys were again laid out, so any take the vehicle, but there was no sign of either one of them Please mounted a search. Again, it is almost parallels how poorly the one in ragged island was done. They searched and searched could not find any sign of them A lot of reports of you know that you start looking for: where did they run away together or except your which doesn't make any sense? But police investigated any sign of couples? Senior AL young couples walking the streets it wasn't.
Six weeks goes by and some some gentlemen were hunting Turkey about a just over a mile from the rest area on a logging trail that was used by huh. Club and they found their bodies under an electric blanket that Daniel had had in the car with him. The Bis been very badly decomposed. They had to actually involve pathologist from the Smithsonian Institute to take a look at some of the bones and they did did find on Anna Maria's one of her finger. The small neck, which indicate day. Eight knife wound up, but there's no way to know you know that they were killed by knives yeah. They could have very easily been shot. No, the l stages of decomposition were there. There were no bolts recovered, but there was also other than that neck. There's no indication that
yeah. There was another weapon used other than the knife. Unfortunately, the bodies at that such a stage of decomposition that really limited what what a forties could pull from that particular crime scene other than what they got from the vehicle itself. Now you talk about what this to please do after this I mean when. But what is the media response to all of this? He said: they've been interestingly ahead of the curve in terms of information to the public How does? How big is this a story? And what do they do with the story? What is their input in the 1980s? This was a huge story. There's always
have a struggle with the last murders, given that they were thirty minutes away. You know we're the really connect at yeah. My whole thing is they're connected and tell somebody can prove they're not connect that it certainly fit the pattern in terms of the speech again. The vehicle at the media covered this extensively and still does there. Some reporters like in the park any facts. Who's covered that sob yeah we covered it from day one and the reporters that have covered it, tend to cover it for many years at a time and follow the case,
They really were instrumental when all of this and as we move forward with the case in really kind of keeping it not only in the public's eye to win every time attention drawn to it in the public. Just like this interview, it puts pressure on the F B, I in Virginia State Police, to take action and to to to move the case forward. Sell the media's played a very crucial role in this, especially when you get, to some of the quirky things around Fred out, while now Fred out well was a fired. Artillery arrested deputy had been convicted of a felony. He had gotten a job as a deputy and allow Cirque only which kind of tells you something about their hiring standards. They hired a convicted felon to be a deputy. He had retired
and he started to insert himself into the colonial parkway murders. He had started meeting with the victims doing his own investigations etc. On his own time, I ended really kind of crawled into the case. Friended found out that the FBI had lost control of some of the crucial crime scene photographs they had ended up in the hands of a contractor, who is using them for training purposes. Fred got a copy of these on CD, took it to the media an when, when Fred did that. You know as much as it was terrible that the FBI had allowed these photographs to be out it really It is kind of a new generation and thrust on this case
it really is gone into some new and different directions as a result of that, and it it put pressure on the F B item for the first time ever to bring all the families of the victims together and to renew a commitment. Try to solve these cases except track. Unfortunately, you know it also drag some attention to, for that. Will that that he might be indeed a suspect or a person of interest in the case, things got actually worse for worse as time passes time. We talk about that in the book. How did things get worse for Fred Atwell based on the circumstances and also his own behavior. You know, for was a media hound and there was good because it was through the media and and working with reporters that he drew the attention Fred became involved with the colonial
Parkway victims fund, which did fundraising efforts that they could do things like run public service announcements, print posters, you keep this in front of the public I got involved with a fundraising attempt with the families which was, and the families had no idea that this was going at the fretted, convinced them that he had gotten car to use from a local dealership in a row apple. So the family members are out meeting with their friends and colleagues and etc, selling raffle tickets to this car Fred or manages to be the person drawing the raffle ticket turns out. His son in law was the person that quote unquote won the Viet but the family really with him is really want to capitalize on this. They want to get a picture of who won the vehicle when they got the car. You know and and play that up and as it turned out, there was no car.
Car dealership, but when they reached out to the car dealership, the car dealership said Fred took a car for a test drive, but he never you. He didn't own it and we certainly didn't donated vehicle for the US. Yeah well went on the lam, after that he ended up down and in Georgia, had a confrontation with the police ended up as short time, he was in the Roanoke area in Virginia and committed an arms. I believe there you know he was finally arrested, that the thought was at one point it that he was trying to commit suicide by police at one point, Fred was arrested that those felony charges of the robbery, as well as the flop, with the colonial parkway victims, find and
he's currently serving time in Virginia prisons and will be for a while still. Now the role of the FBI in here in we talked about their original theory as they make this connection to all of the the parkway murders and their connection to all of those murders except had injure and and Powell. Laura Powell you talk about some characters are very important when wells you talk about some other FBI, people and this new profile that they come up with this new new new ideas as to the again describing the potential killers tell us what the evolve into and what they conclude. Well, then, dive never gotten a full copy of of what the current FBI victim
Biology or profile is around this killer, but a vanilla piece together, bits and pieces of it, and if you take a look at some of the FBI is theories, you there's a certain pattern that this killer seems to follow. You know he picks isolated areas, and these are carefully chosen areas there. Each one of these sites has a geographic limitation on it. It the geography of the location itself helps provide some of that degree of control to certain degree. When you look at any one of these sites there, they are wooded areas which trees lining both sides, limited capabilities to go out. They actually in some cases, especially from a lot hey trail, and you can picture of that versus the Colonial Parkway they're very similar in physical appearance
so this killer is someone or killers is someone who carefully selects wearer here or they are going to commit those crimes they also from from what I've been able to gather talking to profilers from what they've seen in the case, this is a person who also carefully selects his victims. This is a hunter is stalker. He is looking for the right people kill he it, which means there are several people that probably had encounters or several couples, that having encounters with this and never realized how close they were to being victims. They looked whoever this person was chose his victims very care
Foley. I don't know what the criteria is or what he did. He exerted control over them. Now control can come through a lot of different means. It can be made barking orders to you. It can be me pointing a gun at you. That gives me control and gives me a forty, but this person is able to to take these people and take them somewhere else too, from where he catches them to where he kills them. So he he physically is able to move them and that's becomes an asp.
To this that you start to see and all of the an eight year old. The thinking also changed over time about why the crimes would have stopped. Historically, the old school thinking used to be wild one of the two. If it was a dominant and submissive killer, one of the two is in jail. One of the two is that may be. The dominant person killed the submissive person yeah. There was something that broke that t mop it it's hard to recruit for somebody to fill that role, You know to continue on with the killings. That's the king's changed over time, and I've spent some time on the FBI's own job books that they've produced and serial killings. And what's really started to emerge with the Btk killer with Green River killer. Centrist is oftentimes. Serial killers go through a life change, they get married. They have a child they get
new job. Something happens that just breaks them out of the cycle that they're in And it could be as simple as they may have had a very close encounter with the laws. In didn't even realize it at the time, but they may have had such a, some counter, that it scared them away from it, but dad the concept that it could have been I yelled something along those lines that stop the killings. Definitely it is part of the new thinking that that I've seen that at the F b I and their own documentation. Now you know there there's it's interesting, because my daughter and I go back and forth constantly and this is it two killers or is it one killer, she's in the two killer school all but we talked with Cassandra Haley's sister, Terry and she was actually in law enforcement agencies.
It's actually easy for one person. It was a cop to get control she said. We did all the time you pull over a vehicle. You get out, you say: ok, what are you guys doing here? Can you step you ask the driver to step out of the vehicle I need you to walk over to my car for a minute. I talk to you. Ok, I'm going to put you in handcuffs. Have you sit in the back of my vehicle? I need to talk to your passenger, make sure your stories Mary up now. I've got the driver sitting in the back seat of my car in handcuffs I go to the passenger. Ok, can you get out of the vehicle? Let's talk for a minute. Tell me what you're doing here your story doesn't the match? Up with his look, I'm going to call your parents just to make sure for now. I'd like to do is just temporary. Put you in some handcuffs him. You sit in the back seat of the vehicle. Suddenly I have two people in the backseat of my car in
handcuffs completely out of control and unaware by the way that they in any danger whatsoever so yeah. It could B, two people- and I and I won't disagree with the profilers. It still could be one as well, and it is just one who's very cunning who knows how to control the situations which again lead you to it could be someone with a law enforcement or or cooking or background in that type of work. You talk about the rash of reports, the thirty regarding individuals posing as police officers pulling people.
Over. What did the police make of that? What the media make of that? The media definitely covered it at the time that there were people that were impersonating law enforcement and what surprised me and talking with Dani plot of the Virginia state police about that he said it happens more than you realize. People want to pretend to be a cop or in the like the power piece of it. He said I always had to warn people that we caught doing that you're taking your life in your hands every time you do it you you you, you don't realize the risks you're putting yourself at trying to play that role, but there was a definite spree in the nineteen eighties of people that were impersonating law enforcement the Newport NEWS, Hampton area and and were caught doing it. None of them unfortunately turned out
to fit any of the other profiles were or had any sort of connection that could be drawn to the colonial Parkway murders at the time so yeah they it it's t internalizing, and they, where was this killer, was, was definitely hunting his p Paul. But I don't know if you would have done it. You're on a major highway or major thoroughfare e would have in some way tried to get them off to the side and and where he could exert more control. Let's talk about all that remains a fictional written in nineteen. Ninety two for Patricia Cornwell. What was its effect well Patricia Cornwell was working in the state medical examiners
suspend a completely fictitious novel that mirrored in many respects the colonial Parkway murders right down to the locations. Summerford descriptions of the crime scenes actually dangerous the fictional work and had nothing to do with the realities of what was in the case. The family members actually sued her, because it appears- and I don't doubt that that she may have had to access to the medical exam. In our files on the colonial parkway cases and use those kind of as reference material for her black The case never reach fruition for number legal reasons, but it really cast interesting doubt I'll. Never forget I called one library to see if they had a clue
open file on the colonial parkway murders. I told him I was doing a book on it and I mark with the library 'cause she well. This case has been solved. Patrol Cornwell Road, all about it, and I had to explain to her the difference between fiction and nonfiction and she's a librarian, but there's it in many respects. I think some of the damage Did it did it is that it's sensationalized and commercialized the Colonial Parkway burgers in a ways that the families weren't really prepared. For that's one of the reasons we spend so much time. It made such a concerted effort to reach out to the families to engage with them through this process. Even when I'm talking to you on the phone, I let everyone in that we've had family contact with now in advance that we're having this conversation, so there's no surprises
so that they are have a degree of control and influence on the sit in in can have a say, because this is past. I've generally generationally, it's gone from the parents now to the brothers and sisters of these victims. Then they are, they have. This is dominated much of their lives. It's been the the big unanswered question. As to who did it and why- and it's been out there for all of this time and Pardon well, really didn't pull the families in she just put out a very sensational book, and there is a feeling that this is somebody who is profiting off this not trying to help the cases but trying to just leverage Matei, she. Shouldn't have had to do this now, whether she did that or not I I don't know I reached out to Patricia Cornwell and during the writing of this book,
never heard back from her. Understandably. So, given some of the past history on this, you include. In one thousand, nine hundred and ninety six a park ranger named Clyde G and he had transferred from the colonial Parkway, Julie Williams was found in another woman and wine and they were found dead in their tents. How does Clydie become a suspect? An what to police do with that information gotten from him? Well, you know kind years, is one of the individuals that ends up in the wrong place at the wrong time. Multiple times, you know he is different, one of the first responders at at and both of the Parkway scenes He is transferred to Shenandoah Valley, and these two women are killed. There he's the one of the lead investigators there,
There's a mishandling of the crime scene. I don't know for sure it was quite easy that did that, but you know he was definitely involved in all of this year. The thought was, you know. Maybe a park ranger could have been the person that was the person of authority. In all of these cases- and I know the FBI took a very serious look at a number of park- rangers digest Clyde YE, but there were three park rangers that were looked at in doubt three or four like he was cleared by polygraph style, and these can be l as far as the F b I's concerned and- and you know, there's nothing that ties in there. He is in many respects, hues of in the wrong place at the wrong.
Hi, I'm off. That is also involved in reading scandal out west and a L Clyde years when these people it pops up numerous times in the park service, with that criminal investigations gone horribly wrong and but yeah all that. That being said, that doesn't make him a serial killer by any stretch. We don't have time to go further into this. I'm gonna leave it for the reader to discover this incredible tale and the more and more looks like viable suspects popping up all throughout this entire boy including Darryl Rice, and you talk about the route twenty nine stalker murders to. So this is incredible in the end, what does Leri Mccann say to you in terms of you would lose to it about the solvability of this.
Larry. It was so funny. The only way Leary would talk to us and said I'll only speak to you. If you're going to help generate tips that will solve this case, because I believe it's solvable, he gave us his profile about a dominant and submissive person needs by the stance of time. Educating us, which I am incredibly thankful for the he just did a fantastic gentleman- and he said yeah know, but when all is said and done Blaine I could be completely wrong. So you gotta go where the evidence takes you. Since the books come out, we've had several viable tips command. We have pass, those on to the proper authorities as they've come in and you.
So we're doing the right thing here, Larry believes the case can be solved. I believe somebody out there knows something. I I have a feeling up to now: they've, never known the full context of what they saw on at a particular time didn't realize the importance of it except try and I'm hoping this book has some of those people come forward so that they can tell their stories. So we can complete the new
of what happened here and with that we can finally see some justice be dot. I want to write the last couple chapters of this book, the arrest and the trial, and I'm counting on the public to be able to help do that. We've donated two years of our lives to getting this done and getting it packaged and available of the public. It's now time for the public to to do its part and step forward and we're starting to see some of that already. It's also an and no, we didn't have enough time to go through this, but you in the book really provide. This is a very, very emotional account with the access do you have from the victims, families, because this doesn't go away and there is no closure and the way they were treated lots of times by law enforcement. So there's a lot of animosity there's a lot of frustration, and certainly no closure. With this
and I agree with you that this is the best way to generate tips from a public that, from an old cold case like this, where people might not know that they did witness something and something's been done before. So I wish you the very best of luck with this, and thank you very much for coming on and talking about. A special kind of evil, the Colonial parkway serial killings. Thank you very much. It's too bad! We didn't have your daughter Victoria, a coauthor on tonight, but I want to thank you for coming on and talking about a special kind of evil. Thank you very much. It's great to talk with you again now for those that might want to contact you or look at this, work. Is there a website or facebook page for this? There is a facebook page for the colonial Parkway murders. I recommend people go there. I do a blog and in the are go up on that site that are related to this crime
Anne, I recommend that you know if you attach to that in Facebook, that's going to be probably one of the easiest ways in social media to connect to all of at night. We provide our email addresses in the book, as well as the phone numbers for the FBI and state police, and we encourage anybody you as a tip, no matter how insignificant they may think it is reach out to the proper authorities if you're not comfortable, doing that contact us we'll reach out to the proper authorities. Yes, thank you very much for that and just again, I wish you the best of luck with this investigation and hope to have you back on soon with, like you say, the final chapters. Thank you very much, Blaine Pardo special kind of evil. Thank you very much for this interview. Thank you good night right
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-31.