Young girl’s panties started to go missing; sexual assaults began to occur, and then female bodies were found! Soon this quiet town of Tweed, Ontario, was in panic. What's even more shocking was when an upstanding resident stood accused of the assaults. This was not just any man, but a pillar of the community; a decorated military pilot who had flown Canadian Forces VIP aircraft for dignitaries such as the Queen of England, Prince Philip, the Governor General and Prime Minister of Canada.This is the story of serial killer Russell Williams, the elite pilot of Canada’s Air Force One, and the innocent victims he murdered. Unlike other serial killers, Williams seemed very unaffected about his crimes and leading two different lives. Alan R. Warren describes the secret life including the abductions, rape and murders that were unleashed on an unsuspecting community. Included are letters written to the victims by Williams and descriptions of the assaults and rapes as seen on videos and photos taken by Williams during the attacks. ABOVE SUSPICION: The True Story of Serial Killer Russell Williams-Alan R. Warren
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers and true crime history and the authors that have written about Gacy, Bundy Dahmer, the night stalker Dgk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers, crime, history, room murder, with your host journalist and author Dan. This is Nancy good afternoon. Young girls penny start to go missing Sexual assaults began to occur, and then female bodies were found. Soon this quiet town of Tweed Ontario, was in panic.
What's even more shocking was when an upstanding residents stood accused of the assaults. This is not just any man but a pillar of the community, a decorated mill, Terry Pilot, who had flown canadian forces VIP aircraft for dignitary, so is the queen of England, Prince Phillip, the governor General and the Prime Minister of Canada This is the story of serial killer, Russell Williams, the elite pilot of Canada's air force, one and the innocent victims. He Unlike other serial killers, William seem very unaffected about his crimes and leading to separate lives, Alan R Warren describes a secret life, including the abductions, rapes and murders That were unleashed on an unsuspecting community included or letters written to the victims. Biw Williams and descriptions of the assaults and rapes
have seen on videos and photos taken by Williams during the attacks. The book to her feet bring this afternoon is above suspicion that true, story of serial killer. Russell Williams, with my special guest journalist and author and podcaster Allen, are worn. Welcome the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. Alan are worn why thanks very much down. It's always good to talk to you. Well. Thank you very much congratulations on your first book and you picked a heck of a subject. Colonel or former Colonel Russell Williams, now tell us just a little bit. Briefly, without giving anything really away, but what brought you to this story? Why did you choose. Russell Williams and this story to write above suspicion. Well, I think that it was ignore
a lot and it was kind of overshadow because of call Bernardo, and that whole thing, that was going on and I think, There was a lot of things about this case that, never came out and people didn't get. The story and I I I I thought that there was I've done about it and I think we need it to no more 'cause. This was a very Porton man, who a very important in our country and he was getting away with it. Unbelievable crimes now take us back as you do you I have information about Russell Williams and and the break up of his and also him studying economics in school, so take us back before all
the military even before you got the bug to to to tell us a little bit about Russell Williams. Growing up going to school tell us a little bit about what, as you read, in the book. Well. Well, Russell was born in England in Prom Bromsgrove, and um in nineteen, sixty three in and he had a little brother that was born two years behind him and it when who is about six. His parents move from England to chalk River, and that was be 'cause. His dad had a p hd and metallurgy, and so he was able to get a job at Canada's Premier nuclear facility by Chalk River, and that facility was doing things like the Us Manhattan Project and very big. Involved in the war
So he took that job moved the family over and they moved to chalk River and you that was about one thousand. Nine hundred and sixty nine. And his is, mother was pretty much a stay at home mother, but she was to do more And so what she did was she started her own business and it was working with children, and children with difficulties, and that this is kind of unheard of and what it did was at. First, it Cree I did a little rift in the community because in the 60s What good wife would go? start a business and ignore her family or not. Take care of her husband and kids. That was kind of the tone back then. And so in mainstream community, she wasn't real popular now at the same
Sometime time, this happened. The nuclear plant happened to take on czechoslovakian man, Solca, and so him and his wife moved to the same chalk. Over to do the same type of job because they were both immigrants and probably because Russell Williams, mother was feeling ISIL needed in the community. They tended to law can't each other and become good friends. And this was they did everything together yeah and this is where there's a little bit of talk about the family, You know because there was a swinger sort of club going on yeah. I'm kind of underground part of of the city, the town and They were said to be part of that. And so that was you know, we don't know how much truth is in that. That's why I said there was a rumor. We don't know
but they spent a lot of time together. I did everything together and the boys, grew up, pretty normal Russell. For instance, E Played the piano he belonged, the school band. He delivered. Newspapers always did things right. His grades were quite good. Was quiet, very, very respectful people said he had great manners. As a kid be quite well. Never got himself into trouble it was kind of an all in all pretty pretty good family scenario at that point But where it changed was probably within a year, of them being there four for some reason. His mother Russell Williams, mother took Russell, and his brother and
moved out of the house. And the story around town was that his father was having affair with MRS sofa. The check couple that came over as well, so she filed for divorce and within four months the Father and MRS Solca were together. Because again, there's so much negative talk about that kind. That was a scandal in the 60s and so they moved to New York, they up and left ' and the mother ended up getting together with Mister Sokha and, in fact marrying him, so they swapped partners, yeah yeah, and because of that again more talk and be. 'cause. Nobody would take their kids to her business. She up and moved to Toronto, so
That's kind of the early days in Canada when there were small an what happened with the parents. And it's so it's left, you know his father with the new wife is moved to New York. Pretty much dropped out of sight an now Russell is brother or living with the mother with the new New Father, stepfather, and, in Toronto now the normalcy of everything, except for this again, dramatic it was and what effect it had on Russell's unknown. We don't really know, but it didn't affect him enough to affect negatively his education. So you you talk about what he does and what he studies and then how he becomes interested in the military
and where he is at that time to be interested in this military, tell a little bit more about that in his best friend, FUCK were yeah Jeff, the core he he was his best friend from school and, as he suggested, they used to lay on the field, because when they lived in chalk, river is kids. First of all, they're really close to Camp Petawawa. And all the military jets and planes and everything would fly over all the time and they just to on the mountains, on the different buildings and mountains in different areas and watch all these flights and pretend to fly, and they were just really. The end to his kids. But when they got into the school school and even into college, None of them went for that sort of thing. They uh, headed into the in fact
Russell went into economics and did for years his brother became a phd. He with his of family doctor, so that they didn't we take it serious, but they were really involved in excited them and just he graduated from the university and not even before they're out of the dorm, he shared the same dorm room with Jeff his friend and uh he came in. Instead he's going to join the air force. Jeff was like, what's that, all about right. This is crazy and in Jeffs words he said that he thought because That time were in the 80s and top gun was big movie and that whole thing was going on with Tom Cruise and he thought ' that he was just you know, catching the wave, I should say I'm kind of getting into it it's the trend, he's excited he
wants to be that pilot. You know that sort of thing and he Didn't take him seriously. So it was a surprise one of the first of many that going to happen, and so he went that direct and Jeff said well. You know he's my his friend and I'm I'm there for you, man. It was this kind of words and if that's what you want to do, do it, but in his in his heart he thought it would just a year. Now you talk about also his opinion in his observations in terms of Russell Williams, internal, the terms of a romantic person dating person. Sexually attracted to women and dating tell us about what the real situation was in his opinion and what his surprise was with an announcement from Well, you're, not so it continued, you know, and
they were in a dorm for the whole for you, First together, so they share the room. And in in fact, also had only one girlfriend high school and early college, and she had played in the band as well and He was very nice quiet, they got along seem very well and they just suddenly broke up. It was over. Never dated anybody else, and never went on parties. In fact, He was the one that run the house, they had six roommates, he was the one that gave everybody schedules. This is this is who cooks today this is, who gets the groceries here? Zuccoli He was very organized. He re folded, his clothes all the time and even when they have little parties in the dorm room, he would just sit in the back and fold his clothes and refold them over and over all night long. So he was
it's very quiet and they figured. He was a little more shy, so nothing and all of sudden. So he you know they graduate. He gets into the the air force and, the late eighties and all of a sudden, comes up to Jeff and says I'm getting married. I want you to be my best man. Yeah Jeff was like what, who I haven't even met. Anybody like that and he introduced HIM to Mary Elizabeth Herriman, who he ended up marrying that July, so it took the from February to July, to be married and uh? It came out of the blue, and that was and another one of those surprises that took him off God and couldn't figure it out. What this person came from he liked berry. She seemed very. Right, very nice. You have smart girl. She was going for her degree, and pretty pretty like he, he
nothing bad to say about her and they seem to get along quite well, but it was just where did this come from? It was like the air force thing where that come from, and so that was too big shocks on him that I'm not sure um Jeff seem should be pretty easy going, and when you talk to him he seems to be oh okay, I can take that type person, so he's not offended by it, but just really surprised that This is the same guy that he he lived with for for six years and they did everything together. Type thing: where did you meet her like? How did this happen. You say that you know what married in go ahead, Sir yeah so. I was just going to say: 'cause we can step back a little and when there an economics, class um, both Russell Williams
And Paul Bernardo were in the same classes together, say, MECCA phonics programs same everything and, of course, Games magazine as well as the star and a few others. Published later that they were friends now. Jeff just denies that completely, because he said at most, they would have made into the same frat party or the same sort of hang out or the out at the at the at the college, but they were not friends and they probably didn't know each other, because he says he would have known 'cause. They did ever together- and I take that as true. I think he's telling me the truth, the, but the other side to that is, if he didn't know not this woman that all of us became his wife and he didn't know about the air force at all of a sudden, became his career.
But maybe he had at that time? Some secrets that he who is running a secondary life, somehow that he could make yeah, you know not unseeable to about yeah. Now you to that to make sure no one I understand that this was not a pushover, this woman and she was no dummy who is the associate director of the heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada here five years older than him. And they moved to also Number of Ottawa, which is the capital of Canada's, you write, called Orleans Ontario he is posted at that time. As director of air requirements at the National Defense Headquarters, and you go on tell us some of the really important things you talk about in nineteen. Ninety four tell us some of the stuff that he is involved with militarily and the status
city achieves probably the biggest thing and the biggest boost for him and his career and his whole. Persona getting their clearance study ended up getting was probably him go, You know what United Arab Emirates, and he was in the secret camp, the secret base, and he who made commander of that and that that that was a secret battle with uh Ganas TAN, and so he he was there for six months and when he came back, was really when he was placed almost immediately in charge of Trenton, so they was probably the biggest boost for him. And the other thing is. He was going for his masters in defense, and If you look at his master's deposition his whole his whole thesis
about going in and attacking first in Afghanis and taking taking over, he was, he was a war hawk and he was there be aggressive in his thinking to battle very americanized in that way and so he really rose to the top almost immediately because what he did in the secret base, as well as his thesis made him look like he could be a war general down in the US easily and thought he would work really well with the Americans. So he had he was the right person and at the same time he was able to sell himself publicly. So he showed up at all the different events: the charities would shake hands. He had a really good preza. Tv tall, good, looking always pristine, dressed
well well behaved. You know perfect manners. He was the perfect candidate to go where he became the head of the largest airport space in Canada. Right now, you, talk about the reason why well when the main reason why Russell and his wife bought a cottage in Tweed Ontario, which again, is it just a little community uh, and this is because he was at the Trenton AIR Force Base five days a week It's made for a big commute to a long commute, so we want to shorten that commute. But then you talk about Series of unusual break and enters that occur in tweed, so tell us about this purchase of the cottage. How were Russell in his wife getting along by all reports. Well, according to the neighbors in Orleans, outside of Ottawa, where they live,
They all said that they were great. There were perfect couple or power couple. In fact, comments were like she, come home from one of her She did travel a lot with the heart and stroke foundation. She would come home he would run out the door, carry her suitcases in for her hold the doors open, always always a gentleman. And when they go over to the neighbors for coffee He would always get up, and get get, get her coffee or get a drink for her refill. It carry it for hold the chairs take her jacket. He was extremely well mannered and the neighbors thought what a nice nice guy he was 'cause. He was quiet, he was light, and he was so good to his wife and yet and a good good military man and she talked
more than they did this couples so most but neighbors tended to get information from her and more about them as a couple from her and but again they loved her too. She was a caring person. She want to be a a great help. In the health community and- and she rose quite quickly up to being- one of the executives of the heart and stroke foundation, so uh, They were like consider the perfect couple perfect. We talked about those the series of unusual break and enters and tell us why their unusual- and this is in the fall of two thousand and seven and you can introduce very interesting character.
Very important to the story. Larry Jones so tell us what happens in these break and enters who notices and who doesn't notice in the fall of two thousand and say well, you know: did there was kind of blurry on exactly how many happens and I'll explain. This the people that would come home, for instance, and not notice a break in the house, looked totally fine, they've been away for a weekend or they've done something and they come home. Everything says is no break nothing, nothing missing every. See normal and when they, when people would find something missing. It tended to be something like some underwear or a bathing suit, or you know minor things and at first people looked at it like they misplaced it, they lost it, something happy
into it and they didn't call the cops right. So there was quite a few of those and how we found out was later once all of the terror of the break. In's hit every He started thinking back home number. I lost this when I lost that so we're sort of where it started and how much it was, but What we do know is how he would specifically scope out places and break. And enter and and nobody would notice he he would do it with precision and take undergarments and sneak back out, and you know the first actually the for which ones that we knew know about would be. Is the murdochs. The neighbors and tweens one neighbors. And he he went in and he took all the little twelve year old girls underwear
who are completely emptied it an in back when they got back the second time from a trip to the daughter, came down and said you know my I didn't know, my underwear drawer is empty and, of course, the parents and both when you talk to me said well, you know she's. Never been the neatest, and the first thing you say is You check the laundry basket or maybe the floor. You know, you know 'cause. That's how she was But when the mother realized that there was one pair of her underwear left was the first ' time that she brought it up. So she called the police and then police came and you see- and this is where it kind of broke B. Yes, when she found out about this. She into the town meeting and told everybody, because the police had been keeping it secret. So they haven't been out in the media. People weren't realizing this was going on, and she brought it up at the town meeting and, of course, other people jumped on and people start recording
nice now when we talk to them, said that only about fifteen percent of those bracons will reported right is the rest after estment, so he was he was, he was doing it very, very well and not meant, a lot of the neighbors trusted him. He is a colonel! upstanding man very nice, polite man and they would go they will tell him. You know the murdochs all the other neighbors would fail, yeah we're going away this week or we're going. Some for two days. Keep an eye on the house sure they never. Second about it why? Wouldn't you? So that's how that that's how it went now. The other thing is to We looked at at that time, and we were thinking. Tweed is where he started, but Actually, in Orleans the same Sort of thing has been going on a few years before. After that,
It moved to Orleans. The police did not tie the two together. And you know just I'm not exactly sure why maybe just the distance and the type of police and how involved they were with each other's communities, but up in Ottawa. There break ends not tied in with tweeds break ins. Let's move on to the after. The trip to Alaska is first attack, so you tell talk and describe his first attack. Wiley, the next day at eight hundred and thirty in the mornings at a meeting with the criminal Intelligence Service of Ontario. Incredibly, so tell us about his first attack yeah he well, you know soon as he got back from
asking, which was another high, pressured sort of. How don't you call it? A project, he was involved with and it seems that to go all the way through. As you go through his history as he but higher rank and more and more pressure and more responsibility. The attacks and the things he did became much more violent and much more aggressive, and this is this One of them this is really kind of the the stepping stone was after Alaska. Within you know, a couple of hours from his trip. He had already attacked. Is this girl and tighter up. Line, folder and assaulted her and so this was kind of leftover from what he was doing before now. He still would take a lot of her undergarments and he
he had a strange way about this to us. He would have them tide up, the chair and blindfolded, and he would- take all their clothing and he would try all of, different coding on himself, as well as the girl and take pictures. So it's not like he was just having sex with them or assaulting are doing something like that. He would actually be doing it's almost like a photo shoot spread catalog right, hi e piece. He would put them all in order. He would take different outfits and put them together and take pictures and and film wearing it and he seemed to have this obsession which, was kind of unusual. You know, 'cause, you could see him taking uh
undergarments and different girls clothing. You know, maybe it's a trophy or different reasons, but act I'll be taking him in trying them on, and then he want to do it in front of them yeah. Because he would have them blindfolded, he would make them touch him wearing it. So he'd be wearing their panties and bra and make them with the hand feel his body wearing their clothes and he does take his time and he it's a lot of photos were talking a lot of photos. Yeah, yeah and exam We had over seven thousand hours of videos and can't tell you how many gigabytes of pictures that were saved on the computer. He
tons and tons he he. What he would do is set up. The tripod once once he's got. The girl tied up secured and- and he feels comfortable then needed would always set up the tripod. Camcorder and then he would take his own clothes off and he always had a ski mask black mask. He would take that on go on camera. When he was filming, you could see him, there was no hidden, he wasn't hiding himself the camera. Then he would have still cameras, two of them and he would throw them on the chair or the bad wherever they are tide up and he would be filming the whole process that anything that super excited him. He would stop pick up the camera and start taking picture and it seemed to be the the things that really excited him were certain angles that the clothing was at. So he would lay under, let's say the right breast and take like eighty pictures
You know just a certain angle or whenever he he got blood. So. There was times when he assaulted her. He was hitting them and blah It would come out or they would fall into the ground. He would stop and take a big pool pictures. He was obsessed with getting still shots of the pain Needless to say, his behavior escalates, we will talk about it as you do, what they discovered later because and will say why. They discover all of this information it's in this incredible book. Let's talk about the murder of Corporal Marie Free Hence Como an ends. Let's talk about how he met her, how they wound up working together. In two thousand and nine and then tell us a little bit about.
His method of operation and how he make sure that well, some of the will say the work that he does before hand to pick and select his victims yeah. I think that ok, so he started becoming the. I don't know how you call it like the he was. He was the one that would fly dignitaries, an important people. For my two thousand and nine so He was flying the king queen ministers, anybody of import- in the royal family or or in the political field, he was. He was the man to do it. He's taking you everywhere now, Corporal Comeau was an assist and one of his flights and she got her reputation by doing big world flights as well. She
flown all over all over the world and taking more foreign dignitaries in her career. People from you know, Egypt and India and Australia, and things like that and she had actually done one of these trips with him that went all through So they had one big project. They did together. So that's how they met and she was a corporal in the same Trenton AIR Force, is that he ended up being the wing commander, so they knew each other from working together on one main thing and that's about it as far as information you get. So that's all that happened now, for him Why he chose her? I can't really say later in the interviews he. He just said that he did
care about any of them. There was no specific reason why he chose the people he did so You know we're leaving that, but but he did do is he would find out where the person live so he found out where the corporal lived and he would wait so he would. He would make a set up. So if it was close enough, he would plan is day by jogging around and he would jog and look and try to get all of the different schedule that she would have and try to see. Who is there who was coming in? Who was up coming out and kind of what kind of lifestyle she was and then when he found out when she would be gone, he would speak in break into her basement somewhere and he would go through the house, so he would go up into the bathrooms and to the bedrooms. The drawers have this time he was looking for anything to do with the men.
He wanted to make sure there was no mail visitors like she wasn't having men that her staying overnight or their way in a boyfriend living there or brother or anybody else. So she looked, but so he looked everywhere for anything that way show if there was a male involved and, of course, with Marie Comeau, the corporal there was none, She was dating a man but they were not living together. So that's how I would do it, and so eventually he waited for the time and when the time is right, he knew that she was going to be alone, so he gets to her place of two hours earlier breaks in the basement and weights and in that particular case he waited and a cup flowers later she came home, she was on the phone for a little while talking to her boyfriend planning different things and then
She was going to bed so she hung up, but she keeps in that particular case. She was looking for a cat and she went down to stay service to find the cat and she spotted him spotted his eyes. He had. Mask on, but she saw his eyes and that's when they this began. And he he actually took control of her beater enough times any hunger on a hook in the basement from her on her back and he tied her up and blow folder. And then, while she was there, he went upstairs and he did he I'm comforters over the bedroom window So nobody could see. He also would take her keys and break them in the locks of the doors. All around the house and Somebody else come here so get notice. He was very well planned. This was all thought out quite well.
I was thinking about all the things he couldn't couldn't get away with, setting up different things and then he went with her. He went back downstairs and I'm tighter and unhooked her and was taking her up the stairs and then she he jumped on him and started a big fight and That's when he hit her on the head a few times with the flash right and then smashed her head right into the wall. There's huge dent and she passed out, fell on the floor tons of blood coming out and that's when he would stop you see we would know because he would stop and take eighty pictures of the blood slowly if it's running across are cement floor and he he wanted to almost catalog. It get get detailed pictures of every movement that blood made. Um yeah. So it was just incredible and and and ethic continued. He took her upstairs tighter to the bed. Blindfold that are
and raped her attacked or several times uh, beat her several times and and again he set up the tripod film. The whole thing and he just would would do this for hours and hours and and even after he killed are yeah you're right. He had to go meet with the intelligence that morning so think it was five hundred and thirty when he was finished and by eight three he was in meeting with the intelligence and the intelligence agents picked up nothing. They had no idea. He wasn't upset, he wasn't nervous, he wasn't. She wasn't unhappy happy, he was, he was normal Russell. He was perfect chipper top of the day right on top of everything. He always was so
they didn't. They did not have a clue that that's what he was up to just ask: Currently is three hours ago. You include the he later you find out that she says I don't want to die. And he says you're not going to die, but he covers her mouth and her nose with tape right and she dies of suffocation yeah. Now you say what he does he he has the wherewithal because he is organized he takes all of the sheets in the comforters. Throw them in the wash throw some bleach in there, but what he does leave behind is a shoe print. Tell us a little just Just tell us about that. Well, you know, and he did this before too he would. Leave blood even with the fight downstairs. He just he roughly wiped it up now not anything great hit,
shoe print running up through the blood and running up and down the stairs, and he He didn't do a good job of trying to clean it. Even the two assaults before this, where he kill them where he just rate them and sexually assaulted. He did the same thing. He left prints. He left blood, he left all sorts of things Sxe. I'm not sure why, because how you could be so so calculated and soap and and so protected in what you're doing and yet would leave. You know you would walk through the blood and walk up and down the stairs and you'd just wait, things down and throw it in the wash and kind of leave and it almost
It was almost almost two people you know doing the same event like the first guy was planning calculated one. The second one was somebody different and, and that is uh eventually how he got caught now, the next day and you're right November, 25th Como's boyfriend was very worried, and so she hadn't shown up for work. He bend over let himself in and, as you write, the horror of this is the neighbor watch is go in and then burst out of the the House minutes later tell us about. As you write, what does he do? How does he behave? What does he say to the neighbor before. Well, the the neighbor actually just had a plumber over plumber.
Was there and they were talking outside and most boyfriend pulls up and he was more worried because she didn't show For work one, but not only that and she just got back from one of those big flights where she had flown all over with dignitaries, and she was on the phone the night before Him planning a lunch date to talk about the people she had met and things that would happen on the flight, and so there was no answer on the phone, and so he was he was worried that and and it was lunch, so he almost lunch. So he had it to the place and actually had her keys from her mother had given him the keys and he went inside and so found her dad came running out screen that she's dead. She dad anybody know what happened. Anybody see any
buddy strangers is cars and, of course, the neighbor in the plumber came over and everybody was in shock. You know this is you know, quiet a little. Sleepy rural community that nothing like this has ever happened. So, of course, all talk, came and then soon the police came. He was pretty devastated, way way beyond what you would normally expect. And about the police cleared him pretty quick. When they came down and started doing the search and talking to all the neighbors and and canvassing the area- and they took him in requesting and stuff and he was cleared pretty quick. The incredible part of this story again
even more horrifying. In retrospect, I guess for everybody that reads this book too. That was involved with this is that she was buried Decembre, for two thousand and nine at the national military cemetery in Ottawa and Is your commander Williams was tasked with writing the official letter of condolence condolence to her father, tell us if that's not enough, tell us about what else was tasked to do or what he did do at this funeral? Well. Not only did he write the letter, but he actually spoke. He he addressed, I mean there's there's we have the pictures of him giving her a really good reading, so at the funeral, with her picture, standing right beside him and he's up at the head of the crowd of the air force and parents and every and talking
what a great member she was and great person and he gave her an incredible eulogy and. And also help carry her her coffin. So It's just unbelievable in that he could do that and fit the part. He there was nothing unusual about the way he behaved and if the, if you look at that and look at those scenes back, then he was totally acting after the show to certainly now you talk about the murder of Jessica, Lloyd, she's, twenty seven year old beauty, she lives alone. Tell us it's about her and her her life and how she comes. What are the circumstances in which this predator,
comes to know of her. As you write the book. Well, it was suggested is that on one of his many runs through the area that he spotted her. What are working out in her. She had a treadmill and because it's kind of country setting you know you have a lot of a lot of people that live in those areas They don't have a curtain, so it isn't all done up, so you could we heard just running on a treadmill right in the window? You know where it is living room window and nobody would notice. Nobody would care, I guess, and so he started running by and for some reason something about her cause caught his eye and he made it a pretty regular thing and he, got to know her time for patterns and so he decided
check it out, just as he did before so she's gone out. He drives up and with, in particular lot. She lived in a house and there was an empty lot beside her house. So it was an unsold empty lot and so what he did was he pulled his pathfinder into that lot and wait it to make sure she was gone and then he walked across that lot and broke into her basement sliding doors. And what he did was checked out the house again. So he goes, up through the all the rooms. The bathroom bathrooms drawers he's looking for any sign of a man or anybody else that live there and he found no signs of any any mails at all. Nothing and never seen any. You know on all of this surveillance, so he he comes back out down to the to the truck and leaves
And that was this kind of you know his way of doing it. So then he must have planned it and that same day a week later he comes back exact, same scenario, but this time he's going to wait for her now had the differences when he pulled into the lot and he's waiting, a car drives up to the front, Jessica, Lloyd, House and we leave their lights on. They get out, walk up to the front door ring the doorbell wait, nothing happens so get back in the car and they leave okay so then about well. Maybe twenty minutes later Jessica, Lloyd, comes Parks gets out, goes into her house and goes upstairs and he waits until it's all pretty much dark and figure she's gone to bed then
he makes his move comes across down the sliding doors in the basement comes. Into the bedroom and attacks are he thought she was asleep? Actually, I described that how You know he was so good at breaking in I'm not leaving any noticeable breaks, on the doors or the the handles, and he would even sneak up to the room and that a lot of times he could set up his tripod and its camera and then attack the woman, and they hadn't even noticed, so he is very, very precise, but she opened her eyes when he was in the midst of attacking her. So He beat her quite severely and she tied her up and continued do the same sort of thing took his clothes and he Ray
for several times now. This was a step up as well, because then he started doing things that were a little bit more aggressive he he the metal trips around her neck. And would twist so that she would choke and then he would force her to do things. And if did it, if she didn't he would he would kill her choker. So he started being even more aggressive, with this one, that he was with the one before so he was oping his game as she would but he was getting more violent and caring less for the for the victim. And this went in four hours command there was a bang annoys somewhere. It startled him through on his clothes
use, any wants to know if she had anybody else coming over. She said no, and so he picked out clothes, put it on her and shoes and drag her out across the field into his truck and he drove are home and then took her into his house and he took her upstairs and made her shower. Uh raped her again Thai Europe beater and raped her again, and then she also tried by getting away by pretending she was having convulsions, and he believed it for awhile but uh. Not not anything for She never got away and then and all the way through it. Of course she was doing the same. Thing. I don't want to die you're going to kill me. Please tell my mom, I love her and through listen, you're not going to die, he would say, and all this and then or see our takes her down the car
and he kills her with a flashlight, and He took over seventy pictures of her dead on the basement on in the garage. This work was, he stopped and took all those picture and and that sort of. This is sort of where not only cause This is him to get caught, but he also- and you talked about Laree Jones Earlier- this is kind of the key part here because his neighbor and tweed, the other one Larry Jones, was retired grandfather. And lived alone. We actually had a wife, you I'm sorry and what happened was after the killing happened. He get over to Larry Jones the next day, who would go hunting all the time he what Larry? Where do you want? and he said well Partridge Hunt
You know that, don't you oh! No! I didn't I didn't know. Where do you What do you set up? Your camp course Larry told him why go up just described where the cat was and said? That's where we set it up all the time and it's great for hunting great. Well, then, you know have a good day and very Joan that I've even said that seems kind of weird that they've been living for years together, seem out of the blue when he got back from that hunting trip he had found that someone broke into a shop, Larry Jones, And when he went to the shop he was worried about all this equipment and stuff being sold. Nothing. Nothing was stolen, and later he found out that he had a old, dirty jacket that his dog sleep on. While he worked in the shop and add a pair of gloves that he would use that were pretty old and ratty and have cut stain, blood on it, they were both gone and
what he had done was Russell Williams had gone in taking those items and rap them in the body of Jessica, Lloyd and then he dumped. Body of Jessica, Lloyd up at the camp where Jerry Jones, with doing hunting right so and and and it it, became a little bit even more intense, because there's this story to that Larry Larry Jones son, who was working at a Sears. And was friends with Jessica, Lloyd, the girl that was killed, got a call from Jessica I know something about what her water pump or something was broken in her house or and needed help. So the sun called you know, Larry Jones. Can you go over and look at her so course Larry goes over there and tries to fix or heater.
Open or whatever she had in there and put his prints all over the place, he fixed it for didn't charger and laughed so now you have that you have Larry Jones prints all over Jessica Lloyd's house. You have parts of his clothing wrapped in Jessica, Lloyd's body and dump where he goes hunting you could you know you couldn't ask for a better setup and, of course, the lease question them arrested them rate at the house and of course, when that news came out nobody in the community would talk to the Jones. He was evil bad. He did it, he
awful and that's kind of where the community was out at that point. So yeah yeah, so he he he didn't just kill. He was sending someone out it's up to take the fall for it. You talk about a few hours later, just to show the psychopathic. Ten season their capabilities, he pilot is a troop again, the high profile flight to California, the is a few hours later after all of that yeah yeah. Actually, he was able to do that, just as he did before when you went and met the intelligence three hours after you're, beating and raping same thing. He just get it together and go do a high. High pressure job and do it precisely do it? and nobody noticed everybody
I thought he was the best and and everybody you talk to They had no idea. There was no giveaway, he didn't even come in saying all I'm tired or I don't feel well or complaining. He was come in like the total professional. You have no idea that he that body you see and when did that one. He still had her body in his in his basement. You know just the Lloyd was still wrapping done. 'cause. He didn't have enough time, so he just kept her. On ice, so to speak, while he went to work and can do Really high pressure. And do it very well, it did not affect him. I, but I will say in talking to a lot of analysis, cycle and psychologists throughout this It seemed to me that in order for him to,
be calm not to do this. You know what my first impression was that he had maybe an anger toward his mother or a woman figure and he was taking I doubt he would beat them demean them. He wanted to make and feel bad about themselves in the way that he was doing this. It wasn't like a sexual pleasure thing and some some of the psychiatrist said well. What was was when he was under pressure for let's say his job. He felt out of control in order to. Feeling to control again he had to go back so the time when he was a kid to to achieve that- and that was that was back in the day where his mom and dad were together and you or it was considered that his father used to his mother around a lot and was quite rough with her. So.
He was trying to find that com spot. And so what would calm him down and bring him back to normal was commit in fact, and that why they were elevated and they laugh longer and they were more our graphs of each time, because the pressure seemed to be getting higher with his job. Now you talk about. Fellow employees on January 24th realized that Jessica, Lloyd. Hasn't shown up for work and they notice her family and her brother, Andy alloyed, who lives in Bellevue nearby and her mother, Roxanne, Magar we were alarm so they rushed to the house. What do they find at that house and what is the? What does he leave behind, which is important before we talk about the response from a billable police. Well the big, of course, what they do. Is they find a you know what,
crime scene and he Again did not leave you know there, there was blood in place, There was some everything was ripped up. Clothing again was gone tracks. They left in a hurry. Remember he he thought he was someone was there well, he was startled. So he threw shoes on and laughed and what he did. Was he dragged her across that field to where you had his pathfinder part and if so, both her prince and his blueprints were all across 'cause? It was in that Winter s Multi winter season, so there was some little bit of snow, but there was definitely a lot of mud, and so they tracked those prints right across from her back basement sliding door right to the to the truck and then plus,
when he came in, he didn't take a shoes off, so his prints were all all around there as well. There was blood in quite a few places and it was just a really sloppy cleanup and They knew right away, something had happened, police response, what do they do? What they again, he didn't leave too much evidence behind book. What do they do when this crime is reported in what is the break they get in terms of witnesses and what do they, what they are? What are witness to well did the same same scenario close off the scene start, interesting, the neighbors friends, the family people they work with. You know they did the same standard but they had one other thing that happened.
If you remember, I was saying earlier how a car pulled up rung the doorbell and then left that it happened to be a policewoman for the police department and watch what she had seen the pathfinder, Russell Williams in the pathfinder in the vacant lot in the dark. So she She would check on the door. You know check on the house, so she, run the doorbell to see if there's anybody home see if they knew anything about that see. If things were ok bye, she didn't go any further. She just turned around and left so she described that to the police, and so they knew they were looking for that. So they went out to the field and they started taking tracks of the pathfinder as well as the the foot tracks, and so they decided
set up a roadblock and just start checking for people driving by the area. With the same type of vehicle or tire, and quite a few were going through. And of course you know this was the luck of of. I guess Williams. Turning because normally he take his Bmw to work and back and just use the path You know side things, nothing major, and this happened to be the same night. He decided to take his pathfinder so on the way back. He got stopped on the road block and- they noticed his tires, matched. And it was the same type of vehicle, so they put him on the list and they let him go by and he went home, but that list they say pudding. Putting people on surveillance that were on the list.
And uh. That was that was kind of the brake. That's how he first got spotted. And that was the thing that stuck out. And it wasn't long later, that detective spice decided You call him in for an interview and did it on Bible. It was The football championship Sunday, the Grey CUP Sunday, I told him to come on in and that's when the interview started interesting point, an important point is that he didn't ask for legal counsel And you speculate why that would be well, you know I can speculate only because if you want the whole interview- I mean he was in there ten hours when he walked into the room. He, was chewing gum and
this real he was just real small and I don't mean that say that being bad. He just had a real chip on his block. He walked in like he was. The king Yohe throws his jacket on the table and and chewing gum, sits down, crosses his arms. You know there your body language, is like real color yeah. What do you want? and and anytime at the beginning? The detective would ask him a question. You go check. Yeah like he was being so kind of a wise, ass and and even when they detective said to work, have you ever had your rights read to you before he's like no have you ever been interviewed before, and then he course he plays the old well. I've had review is much tougher than this. You know in order to become top security, I've had pretty big interviews like so he was real smug, a real kind of.
You know he was, he was trying to talk down to the cop in that way. That's how I and hey you know ever, but but it didn't last long. Within two hours. He was ready to give it up. You describe two the work, the brilliant work of Detective Smith, two gyms, my too, because He doesn't do the usual sort of wooing of this perpetrator, but he goes in very quickly You know for this route for this interview that supposed to be just routine. He thinks it. It seems he takes that to his advantage, not having. I think Williams really prepared and then says immediate The things like you say if you ever been read your rights and here's. What we're here for.
Where two section results in a couple of murders, so he he confronts him right away Disney Yeah yeah he's right on it. He could Typical read, they have doing it. You know some people in the police call it the read, tic technique. And yeah, he was very structured, went right for it and you know 'cause. Even then, Russell started to get less smug and become a little bit more serious, but didn't he It seemed like he was worried about it. Uh you know 'cause, he even offered to let him do dna swab and all the tests and then then eat the he said well, can we take your boots? and check those as well, and he let them take his shoes. His boots and and within two hours. Like I said, then he holds when he shows
the tire tracks these your car was, and that's how put your pathfinder was parked there. Your shoes walked into her house. Your shoes who are there She was murdered. Your shoes and her shoes went back to your house like like, like you know, He just sort of put it all. If you're not wearing them, somebody was wearing your shoes, and between the but that met that's when Russell STAR kind of being on the defensive and kind of kind of going well. What's going to happen to my wife, what's going to happen to the house. And that that was kind of the break so- within an hour after that,
when they kind of agreed on uh a few things he Pointed out he just said worse, the map I'll show you the body. And he pointed at you sorry. What you write to is that that he talks about the footprints in talks about the tire track and William says really like he realizes he. They got the goods on him, and this is one of my options- an I love this. This is, he says. Well, I don't think here. I don't think you want the cold blooded cycle path, option. I might be wrong because I've met guys were actually Enjoy the notoriety and that's when he said: okay, you got a map. Yeah yeah yeah. It was done very well and that detectives might
did get a lot of notoriety for it because he did. He did conduct it very well and you got it and even after he did the map and they got the search, again. You know he walked in and he made him write those letters to the victims, families, and that was according to Smith. He said that's his too meet to kind of verify 'cause. Sometimes when you get a confession, something goes wrong technically it gets thrown out. This is this is something that wouldn't get thrown out with the confession, with the confession. So if you could get him to write letters saying yes, I did I'm sorry. I killed your daughter. I'm sorry did you know all these letters they could still have that into evidence, so that it's kind of a back up plan that smite had just just to make sure in case the confession didn't count. Yes, it. Very interesting and profound part of you
did you include those letters and those revisions, and it's really striking to see something? I guess so read the Actually that he's showing any kind of remorse, but a very interesting tactic by a Jim Smith. For certainly you know if I can point out on one on a couple of the letters were to The unnamed victim cuz. We have one victim that unnamed and just won the lawsuit in December of last year, and it seems that that girl was underage. And because she was underage she still unnamed in one one letter he did say to her that he hoped she make something of herself someday like grow up to be something good um now that that part of it ended up being kept out in the trial.
So that that whole part of the underage stuff and that was kind of sore spot. Because what what happened was the prosecution decided to keep all anything to do with PDF file out of the trial and the charges if he would confess guilty? So we just took the took the plea of two murders. Eighty eight break I believe and two assaults and wait for life, no parole and There is no trial, it would just be a read out in confession, you know, a plea and that's it, and so it was kind of How to protect the media. Part protect the military just that they thought that that was going to uh put a really bad mark on military anything do with children. You know we had over forty five.
Twelve year olds. Panties he had not so much. City of underage children, they found, you know, It was very, very it was very involved and they just thought they were just kind of not mention it and walk away and just put him away replaced. Within a day and melted. His uniform meletis metals stripping from everything we place them within a day. Put him away for life done. And then it doesn't come up. It'll it'll just go away, and I I think, that's wrong. I think it's a bad thing to do. Certainly certain, because again, that's information is important too, because this is your talk about nine year old girls. Here too so yeah yeah, it's it's it's just you know, This is something that shouldn't be done. We don't need,
most intelligent people in the country would look at okay yeah. He was a nut case like we don't we just because he was doing minors involving them in in his crimes. Does not mean the whole military doing it. You just he's a bad apple. The home military isn't bad. So I think that They were being over protective of something that it. You know he was mentally mentally, something was wrong with Russell Williams and he did these crimes but the whole. The whole air force is not bad because of it. So the air force shouldn't had therefore, should have this much influence on the process, Russian is not much of a deal when we're talking about concurrent sentence is for everything so only pleading guilty to something he would certainly be
convicted up, with the overwhelming evidence of the records that he kept and, let's, let's just talk about you, talk but all the panties, and all that, but there's much more like sex toys and Photos videos tell us just not the numbers, but just the full extent. Between tweed and his home of stuff evidence that they found at those locations that was yeah. You see and that's kind of leads to the next step. You know he's he's in there he's confessed that, the body, so they get the search warrant. Send their teams over in the light bans knock on the door to his wife and say: we've got a search warrant, give you twenty minutes to get some stuff and leave she does. So they do. They do the tasks and they find their way. Thirteen duffel bags leave there and now
in the bags, would be all the clothing you know like and he started out with just panties, but it got too where he was taking dresses shoes, bras, baiting, suits and then pictures. You know he would go into a place and go through their photo album and take pictures for himself and leave weather is he was getting more brazen? He then he would leave a couple of their pictures on the band. So they know he was there. You know, and then he go and he took like vibrators. Then he started going into the mothers rooms and take vibrators. He had teen vibrators, I think, was the total, but he would take a picture of his penis laying over top of the vibrator and then leave it for them, or he would take a picture and put it onto the computer of the wool. And he took it from and he would say
something usually in French, but he would say thank you very much or I can't wait to see. You tell the cops what you had stolen He was really being. He was like. Playing coy with these people. He was taking all these things and being almost pushy and and when he did. He also would film all of this stuff. So it was a girl that he attacked the film would be in there all a picture It would be in there and uh. None of it was hidden, so they they found all of it pretty much at ease, and so that came to the question is: if, if they do that. Why did his wife not know it? Yeah hey at least if, if she didn't know how we
he must have been worried about her finding it right. I mean it wasn't hidden away and there was tongue sometimes of evidence, the other thing is ok. So after the police find all this stuff, do the search warrant come back the first day. She comes back the wife. That is what she do. She calls her lawyer and sues the police for scratching or hardwood floors. Yeah they got that didn't make sense to me. You know. If, if could you imagine you're at home, the police come and said? Ok, Your partners, your spouse, has confessed to murder. This is search warrant were going through the house, you got twenty minutes, get out we're going to go through stuff and you leave they do the search and then- and then you come back home first thing you do is call and say they scratched my floor and want them to come fix. It.
I I mean I don't know. I think it's it's. But it doesn't all it makes, none of it makes much sense that she would not be able to know anything, maybe not know anything about his behavior. But there was some talk that they were separated quite a bit as well in terms of she wouldn't everything he did, but it is compelling when you talk about all these bags of clothing, that you would I've ever stumbled across any of it or asked any questions whatsoever, Ann the other thing, is yeah, and then samples of blood. The other thing is too: they shared laptop MAC Laptop together back then, and it isn't. When you know this, is you gotta? Not everybody had smartphones and all that So they shared a MAC Laptop and he had all of those pictures and videos all on the desktop, all alphabetical order by the person and the
closing any filmed at all, even the ones he didn't rape and when you to a place like the next door, neighbors there Murdoch's when they were way three weekends he would go in and he would that is set up. The tripod lay on the girls' beds, twelve year old girls, bad, take off his clothes and we're all of her co. Try them all on for hours and then do that again, the next night night night, and so what he did was he filmed it and took pictures and would put that on desktop, so it be under her name, and it would be all the events he did with her you and after he never attacked her just with the clothing. So that was all over the desktop and she's, not a stupid woman there sharing that for for emails and stuff. I I don't know. I just I leave that open, while other people other p
people speculated like that as well and scratch their head and more so because they've, all launch lawsuits against there. So there is various lawsuits against there still in play, isn't there? Well, they all settled now as of November of last year, she settled out of court every one of them, the seven million dollars the two point: five c: the court decided that she could be held responsible, and so when they did that in October she and her lawyer settled out all the lawsuit that we don't know the amounts that she settled for because it's you know it's not disclosed, but she's completely settled so it should be over. She Left her job nobody really knows where she is she's, probably back in England, she has wealthy parents
with the big oil company and she's, probably somewhere there. You have another. You include another story and I had to laugh at the just the last part of it, which talked about the mustard. So tell us about again something that again, a close call tell us about this close call and Russell Williams. In twenty ten April, oh when he was in prison. Yes, no. When he tried to kill himself yes a very you know is a smart guy. He take the basically plug the oh, He was taking the paper in the plastic off of the the orange juice containers or something? Little bill wax and he would
be able to plug the lock so that the guard wouldn't get in fast enough, and then he would shove the What role in the must down his throat, so he would choke And but they found him, they called him in time. He didn't die, yeah, yeah yeah. Go ahead. You say that he had scrawled the suicide note, though with, and you know, in mustard, And so then later they called him. They refer to him as colonel mustard, colonel mustard, yeah, that's right, hi! Actually, for God, I do yeah. They, they offices all call them colonel mustard down there, because that tell you I email it. It's cuddle. Laughable. In a way you know, and now in the Codex high school thirty he gets One hour a day where he's allowed fresh air, I guess you call it exercise,
and other than that. That's it and he's he's run away for life. The you do do the heartbreaking part of this book, where you talk about a trial, Jessica's, mother Roxanne, she hell with a large frame picture of her daughter with her all the time there, and also lowering massicot and forty victims of family members attended. So it was quite the sight yeah. It was you know in, and I do I do want to bring something in Lowery mascot. Now she, was the second rape victim and yeah that the negative side on that was because she was blindfolded and attacked and when member, when we were talking about the Laree Jones, Hum
neighbor and with the jacket and the different thing, right, the fingerprints that they had well, when all the what's happening. She testified that she thought it was Larry Jones Voice so that that threw the book at him and uh. He since has come out and said that the it was only because it had, Larry Mass mask mascot and Larry Jones, their two kids. Were involved in a marriage and they had a really bad breakup, really bad breakup, and he saying that's the only reason she she identified his voice. So I I I have to mention that, because that that you know it added to it and it made life worse for him The other thing that I found interesting was how the murdochs the next door neighbor
The one where he had you know six bags of Hershey stuff at twelve year old girl they bought his cabin at tweed right Right and that that's kind of very unusual why they would want. I mean a girl was murdered there and all of the thing things that happened and they bought it. Now they did an exclusive interview with Mcclain's and they said that it was only to protect it from becoming a place to go becoming a you know like a b and b or something to someone making a business out of it and that's why they bought it yeah hard to say you do include and not to attack police in this because of some excellent police work here. But you do talk about DNA collected after the first victim was attacked.
Was in the RCMP Data Bank within two weeks in November. However, when Williams murdered Como it took now ten, weeks to process and upload to that same DNA Data Bank tell us if you are, and you and others think that there that made any significant difference. Well, it definitely would have because it would well. You know what it is it would have changed the scenario because then, we would have known it was a serial, thing going on and it change. Just the whole idea and the way the media handles it. The towns, the police, all of a sudden, there's a concert effort to go. Oh, my god, we have a serial rapist killer right and that's our mindset, changes and then people start looking for that rather than two individual
cool crimes happening in two little towns. So yeah it does. It does change it. You know. I still think that they would have. Things still would have happened. They wouldn't have caught him at that time, but it would have changed. You know just the whole ground that we worked on, so you know they actually sued them, and I know that that's going on. You know that, very mascot and some of them had sued the police. For that and- and I know, there's some problem is there- to blame them while I wouldn't have been raped. If you would have done this, I do I don't know, I'm not, I don't see it that way. I don't think it would have been solved and I don't think it would. Stopped the attack from happening, but you know
my guess is as good as anybody else's. I'm not I'm not above on unknowing the real answer. To that it. It's just it's so hard to look back and say right. I you know I I do not. I don't. I don't know how does that go ahead? Sorry I just got. I don't know how you feel about that. I just look at it yeah. It would have changed the playground and the way the police we're dealing with it, but I don't. I think it would have changed Williams, behavior. It was too soon in it, and he still getting more and more and more, he We're still doing what he was doing and just because police were looking for a serial killer, or it was publicly notified that there's a serial rapist something going on. I don't know that it would have changed much 'cause. You know along these terms,. The Scarborough rapist, was going in Paul Bernardo and all of
that was going on the same scenario, tide up, blindfolded, beaten, killed and raped girls and the same age groups? It didn't stop Paul from doing it. I don't think it would have stopped Williams right, Well, it's an incredible story, and I want to thank you very much for coming on and talking about above suspicion. Not only have you done this book. Of course, I was glad and happy to be In your program, house of mystery that you cohost with Kevin tell us a little bit about how so mystery, and if you have a website or how people might find more information about this book and your work with House of mystery well yeah. The house of mystery is true crime and history so we do a lot of the true crime This is you. Do we like to get?
People that are on that are involved in it and in part of the crime is as we can authors, film makers and they We do a little bit of history, so we kind of back. You know JFK Rfk, some world war, history sort of things and some of the old great outlaws as well. You know Jesse James and stuff and we are on Seattle, cake Bmw, one thousand one hundred and that's on four hundred to five hundred o'clock and, of course, all the podcast sites are website, Issomethingweirdmedia, dot com and on something weird media dot com. You can get access to all the shows do a blog as well or Kevin dust. The blog and you have access to our own to the books.
And, of course, and Amazon and Barnes and noble. The book is out. Well that's great. I want to thank again Alan for coming on and talking about this book. Congratulations on a fantastic book and again Very deservedly needs more attention. This story, I don't think people are aware, but graduations on this book, doing that for us so thank you very much and hope to talk to you again soon and all the best with House of mystery and writing another book and hope to talk to you again soon great well. Thank you much had me. It's been a real pleasure and it's an honor here. It's here the best true true crime, podcast going thought shocks, it's good
from you. Thank you very much. L and you have a great day, thank you again for this interview, goodnight. Thank you. Bye.
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-31.